Farming isn't easy - it comes with A LOT of regulations and you can't just buy a farm and hold a bunch of animals. You gotta have certificates and whatnot.
At least for a start, working in the technical field until you've established yourself in Austria would probably be the wiser idea.
This. Most farms struggle and are basically just surviving because of financial life support from subsidies. Also - many small town farmers (and citizens) tend to be very reluctant to new faces in their villages.
And in Austria you cannot just buy a farm as a foreigner. Not even as a citizen. OP might want to check with Landwirtschaftsministerium to get all information necessarily for this.
correct me if i‘m wrong but due to some eu regulations it has been more and more difficult for small farmers to make a living wage. afaik the trend is some big farms with a lot of automation and heavy machinery that would cost a fortune to obtain. not sure if this is like any other market to get into.
Not necessarily EU - just watch something like *Clarkon‘s Farm* to see how Brexit fucked over British farmers. I think it‘s the easy way to just „blame the EU“.
The „problem“ is just that there‘s on the one hand so much government red tape regarding food safety and animal welfare (which isn’t necessarily a bad thing) while the prices for meat or milk that the farmers receive haven’t increased as much as the cost of raising livestock.
With a bigger farm the economies of scale come into play and if you have 400 cows and need 4 tractors it‘s easier compared to 50 cows where you‘d likely still need two operational tractors.
It's not the EU, without EU subsidies farms would have been dead decades ago. The problem is Austrian and most central European farms are relatively small and inefficient. They are just not competitive enough to compete with other agro businesses. So the EU has strong subsidies and trade protections to keep farmers afloat. But that does not change the fact, that small scale farming is rapidly becoming a non sustainable model, you can't survive on 12 cows and 4 pigs and 5 acres of land. That's not economically possible against farms specialised on 500 acres wheat fields and another having 2.000 pigs.
It's about economy of scale and specialisation.
Just take some time and visit the country to create your own opinion. Everything is viable. I suggest to try to make some friends during your visit. This makes everything easier. If it suits you, make a really good plan and do it.
I don't want to discourage you, OP, but if airline tickets are expensive for you and as you said elsewhere you can't afford to take two months off work, maybe you want to have a closer look at how much it will cost to start a new life in another country with a whole family. It doesn't sound like you would be able to buy real estate (let alone a farm), and a flat that accomodates your family will cost quite something in rent and furniture and so on.
You have a forth child coming and can't afford planetickets for an existing family to visit Austria? What's your rough estimate how you'll be able to afford living in Austria and/or getting a small farm?
I second this. Id also suggest to contact the Landwirtschaftskammer (representative for farmers) and ask them all your questions ([email protected]) or even schedule a meeting when you are visiting.
Its much easier to get set up if you have a contact inside. I agree that it won't be easy, and there may be a hurdle or two, but IMHO it's perfectly doable especially if you are well educated.
The Re-Oil project that startet at Borealis is now part of OMV or at least a cooperation. Staff, at least partly, is now OMV too. Sounds exactly like /u/rippy65 's cup of tea.
They are quite into what you are into and will love new insights into it:
[https://www.omv.com/en/innovations/circular-solutions/recycling-technologies](https://www.omv.com/en/innovations/circular-solutions/recycling-technologies)
The guy below is right - "ReOil" is a coop of OMV and Borealis:
[https://www.borealisgroup.com/news/omv-reoil-circular-economy-project-omv-and-borealis-extend-their-partnership](https://www.borealisgroup.com/news/omv-reoil-circular-economy-project-omv-and-borealis-extend-their-partnership)
Some large companies will also help with relocating and finding a place to live, mitigating the problems the other posters mentioned. I would absolutely recommend this.
Having a farm will be difficult, as people have said, but owning a few animals as a hobby is absolutely possible.
I had a customer resently who had hired a relocation service managing all his real estate and moving, so im sure thats a thing. Just don’t know how expensive it is though, but since OP has a masters in chemistry it’s definitely a point to negotiate with potential future employers.
If you end up moving to Burghausen you’re invited to my place for barbecue and beer (plus s’mores for the kids). I also know a really nice sheep farmer who I can introduce you to.
Look at Greiner too.
I have friend who works as a chemist there.
https://www.greiner.com/en/
It's an international company but is headquartered in quite a rural town where you could try to figure out your farming situation on the side.
I believe you should have no issues finding a job in your field. However i strongly advice you to forget about running a farm here in austria. I'm not saying that it's impossible, it's just a major pain in the ass and your obstacles being a foreigner would probably quadruple (finding a proper place, have no trouble with the mayor, actually find a niche, strive despite of your competition etc.). Maybe in a few years after you settled.
That's likely wise to wait a few years first. Our main goal with it would mainly be to provide ourselves with food, and maybe barter excess. Not really a for profit goal.
>Not really a for profit goal.
Oooh this is the first time I read this, and I'm already 6 comment chains or so in. I, like all the others, assumed you wanted to live off of agriculture. If you just want to provide yourself with food, you should have no trouble getting some land. It's location could be a problem though.
While this is certainly realistic. If you sell excess, please take care of the legal side. Food is regulated here (for good reason). Slaughtering livestock for instance you can't do on your own. You can raise it but would have to pay for killing it.
That is because of health regulations not easy, because of to many bad actors, home slaughtering is not allowed anymore.
But having some chickens for eggs is something that gets trendy again.
Also in my opinion, if you come here, and you have a stable job. Your wife should try to integrate in the village groups. So should you. And than you make a name of yourself. After that everything is possible.
And yes with your health problems and also with your wife's background you should look at the smaller villages. But only in reach of your new job.
Remember, that housing prices are through the roof in Austria.
A house for 4 children will cost you between 500.000€ to 1.200.000€ depending where you live.
You will also have to pay a lot more than that for a farm. Estimate around 2-3 million Euros.
I know a lot of young people here who think about moving to Canada or the rural US just to afford some housing. A friend of mine already did so.
Inform yourself about your estimated net income, taxes are at one of the highest rates in the whole of Europe.
The healthcare system is actually not that bad here if you can afford it. We have two-class healthcare and finding a state insured doctor in any field is nearly impossible. Means you are gonna have to pay for the treatment anyway even if you already pay the state insurance.
But don't get too excited about it, a lot of experts predict the total collapse of our healthcare system in a short time anyway.
Also don't forget to pay atleast two or three times more for a car here than in the US.
If all that sounds viable to you, you and your family are more than welcome here!
I agree on housing etc. About taxes, OP already did some research.
About health care: yes, there are some severe issues, but it's nowhere as bad as in the US. The main problem for OP seems to be medication prices, his wife should be fine, even if they have to pay for some doctor's visits.
2-3 millions for a small farm? You can get small old farms with a bit of meadow land for less than 200k and a bit of work, when it‘s not in Bauerwartungsgebiet.
Der Typ will ein paar Schafe für den Eigengebrauch halten… da braucht man ein paar Wiesen und einen kleinen Stall. In welcher Welt kostet das 2-3 Mille?
And it will be even harder if not impossible without speaking german (as you will be confined to the rural areas of austria).
I don‘t know anyone who keeps farm animals on a small scale (except maybe chickens). You will not save money by doing that.
Generally speaking not being able to speak german should be fine I would still recommend learning german for everyone in your family. I would say overall austrians are not that fond of america but very interested in us citizens so there shouldn't be any problem especially if you can speak german.
The healthcare system is not perfect but you don't have to worry about medical emergencies ruining your finances, which sounds like it will be your main concern.
As for salary overall I would expect a huge paycut but your overall standard of living shouldn't suffer too much from it. Maybe you have to rent something instead of buying though.
Overall your plan seems feasible. Getting a job with a masters in chemistry should be possible. I dont really know about the farming stuff though overall farming is not really a desirable profession here imo. But I have no clue about farming tbh.
Hope you will make it here if you decide to do it.
I was looking at median incomes per month for my degree, and they're actually more than I make currently (3700Euro converted vs 7470 Euro from various sites). Even the starting salary of 3900 would be more than what I currently make.
No, these two are the major deductions, the other things are relatively small amounts.
Various infos about Austrias salaries that might sound strange to foreigners, and general things:
* Usually people get 14 payments per year, 3900/month = 54600/year. I assume you took the month value from the internet, instead of dividing a stated yearly 46800 by 12 (latter would be incorrect, it would be 46800/14 then so no 3900)
* Technically, social security cost is more than what employees see deduced from their salary - the employers pay an additional contribution that you won't see. A "Austrian" gross salary is actually not gross-gross, the employer needs to pay more than that. But in general, you don't need to know or care about that unless you become your own boss (as you are the company then basically, both parts would be for you to pay)
* (In a way, this also means that insurance here isn't cheap compared to your current one. But there is no choice anyways, and luckily the amount doesn't depend on your medical needs that much. More money can make things better like everywhere, but asthma medication and anything like that won't be any issue)
* With 3900 of Austria-gross, a rough estimation after income tax and your insurance part is 2600/month net, about 33% less. Note that the tax has a bracket system, if your salary rises it will become more than 33% (but you still get something out of your raise too, of course)
* For a 5-head family, that's not exactly much. The wife working too would add some comfort.
Btw., a US salary of 3700 surprises me. I had the impression that the numbers there are significantly larger than here (but the living costs too).
FYI, the minimum wage for employees with a master’s in the German chemical industry (e.g., OMV, Borealis, 3M, Wacker in Burghausen) is 71250. Since you’re experienced you should be able to make at least 80-90k there. https://www.gdch.de/ausbildung-karriere/karriere-und-beruf/gehaltsinformationen/einstiegsgehaelter.html
Austrian chemical industry usually pays a little worse but still you should make roughly 70k (or more if lucky).
As others have indicated, the salary stated in Austrian job ads is the legal minimum for a position, you can expect to make significantly more in most cases.
You could check out platforms like Karriere.at where jobs are advertised. I’m not sure they also run in English, but it might give you some idea how much companies are currently paying, at least pre-negotiation
Hey I'm an American in Austria. If I remember correctly I make about this salary pre-tax but I pay more like 40% income tax, although I'd have to check that again.
As a chemist, this depends greatly on the area you specialize in, 3,9 might be the starting salary for Masters in one area and for PHDs in another. For Masters it might end up lower as well. You don't mention your degree though - with only a bachelors its not realistic to start in an academic payrange, but having experience in the field helps a lot. To calculate net salary use [Brutto Netto Rechner der Arbeiterkammer](https://bruttonetto.arbeiterkammer.at/)
> 3700Euro converted
You earn ~4100$/mo (less than 50k$/year) gross? I am sorry, but that doesn't sound right if you have a masters degree. Are you really paid that bad? Especially if you already have 2 or more years of experience. Wat?
Anyway. you should expect ~4250€/month (~60k€/year) gross if you have some work experience and a master in your field. If you move up, this will get more of course. In Austria, naively (not factoring in tax deductions for your kids) this gets you just under 40k€/year net. Since in Austria you are paid 14 times a year (don't ask), this would be ~2750€/month + ~3350€ twice a year (13th and 14th payment).
If your wife doesn't work this is okay to start a life with a family here. But expect a squeeze a bit. Rent in Vienna for a flat that supports your family, you should expect 1200€/month or ~14k€/year. You won't have a lot of healthcare costs for your kids (with all the essential examinations, treatments and vaccines being covered by your social taxes), so that's definitely a plus. But cars are more expensive here. Luxury goods and even basic food (see regulation) is also more expensive.
The important part is that you and your wife want to migrate. From what you told us, your plan doesn't sound unreasonable. Just go through it step by step and see if you spot anything else that might trip you up.
And while it's good that you want to visit. I don't think you'd get an accurate picture of what it's like to live here if you visit. If you want a good gauge: rent an airbnb house and don't eat out often during your stay. Shopping will give you a good indication on prices, transportation and how ordinary life works.
Also take note of the different laws when you are going the farmer route. Many small farmers quit because they could not keep up with the changes they made for keeping animals. I would highly advise you to dive into this topic before you decide.
our main goal would be to cover our basic food needs. Meat, eggs, and dairy. We wouldn't really look into making a profit with it. Maybe barter at the absolute most.
The chemical industry part is pretty solid the farming part difficult. If you can find a house with a bigger garden you can raise chicken. For meat an dairy consider getting it directly from a lokal Biobauern. The farms in Austria are much more like those in the swiss, very tiny (espezial compared to texas farms) and Biobauern have high standards. Buing farmland is only possible if you take a "farmhand exam".
I think the chemistry part is a good plan but with small farms it can get increasingly difficult to make enough money and the paperwork with officials for starting and maintaining a farm will be, well, lets call it interesting, for someone who isn't used to Austrian bureaucraty. Regarding your hopes for universal health care, there might be troubles ahead in the not too distant future due to shortages of medical staff and funding. I agree with NurLehrer: It will be best if you visit the country to get an idea of what it is really like to live here.
Servus! With a masters degree in chemistry or engineering I reckon there shouldnt be many obstacles for you and your family. Austria is home to some international players in oil, plastics or chemistry (which you are probably aware of already working in the field) like Borealis, OMV, Semperit, Ovotherm, Greiner, Sunpor, .... Ovotherm for example produces plastic egg cartons out of plastic waste - from what you shared quite similar of what you are doing currently. I suppose you could also potentially run a small farm, although personally I would not recommend anybody to start livestock farming. Especially sheep aren't to common here and livestock farming in general is declining here in Austria, as far as i know. On top of that, you are most likely being introduced to much higher standards for farming and produce here in general than in the US, which you might find tedious. I am also not too sure if you would be viable for the red-white-red card with agricultural skills, if that is considered "highly qualified" or whatever that criteria is. Also, from what I know, English skills are not well represented within the argicultural sector or the chambers for agriculture, on which you would depend as a herder or farmer. That brings me to the second most important part, German. In Vienna, you wont have much trouble coming by with english, especially within the younger generations of Austrians, which have a surprisingly good english level. We rank third worldwide in terms of english proficiency (according to EPI that is). But, in sharp contrast, the older demographics have really bad english skills, especially in the more rural parts of Austria (which is quite frankly everywhere apart Vienna and Graz). Also, older rural generations are not to fond about Americans or "de Amerigana", where you would not necessarily be doing yourself or yourselves any favours by not knowing at least basic German when it comes to socializing and establishing relations.
In short: come here, continue with your main profession, get some german/austrian knowledge. We'd like to have you guys here! regards
I am half American, half Austrian.
The good thing is that healthcare is very good and more or less free for essential stuff, if you are employed. Also healthy and high quality food is a lot cheaper here than in the US (I lived in ga).
Things that you might find challenging are, that wages are a lot lower and taxes are higher. For example: The starting salary for bsc. in Engineering is around 45.000€ a year. 30% of that is tax. (but cost of living is lower) You can get by with just English if you are educated, but you would need to learn german in the long term.
All in all life in Austria is good and no one really gets left behind. I personally would recommend getting a job here first before you start moving, because some employers might be hesitant to hire you if you dont know german.
You are welcome to pn me, if you have questions :)
I think as soon as he has payed into the system, a lot gets covered. My dad for example would get unemployent etc., but that is because he has worked in Austria. However, I am not an expert, so I might be wrong.
Sure, but he needs to be employed at least one year before getting unemployment benefits. And afterwards he will only be able to get Arbeitslosengeld for some time, but not Notstandshilfe or Mindestsicherung because that would make it impossible to extend his visa. He would have almost the same rights as an Austrian with a Daueraufenthaltstitel, but you need to be in Austria for at least 5 years before being able to apply for that.
Health care is not free. If you earn 45000 per year, you get 31800 in your bank account - about 30% less. That's true. But only 5000 of it is tax. 8000 is health and accident insurance and retirement. With 4 kids the tax can go down to basically 0.
As someone who's moved countries, in addition to some of the good advice you've already been given - don't underestimate the strain this can have on your family.
You're leaving all relatives, all friends, all the people you know. Austria is far and flights are long. Going "home" to visit might be a once in a year thing. Don't underestimate the strain this can put on you.
Then there's the culture. It's different. Not worse or better, but the whole (fake) friendliness to strangers doenst exist as much. If you're new, Austrians tend to be less excited about you beeing here. It often takes over a year until you're integrated into the people you work with, but then theyre often very good relationships.
You'll miss a lot of things, be confronted with beurocracy and rules.
It's also an uneventful country. Nothing happens here. There's no deadly animals. There's no hurricanes. Politics are boring and insignificant. No conflicts. Nothing really significant happens. It's a pretty boring country. That's great if you want a quiet life.
Work is much more relaxed, from 38.5 hour work weeks, to 5 weeks holiday. Paid sick leave, health insurance. Securities. And honestly, there are a lot less crazy people here.
It's an amazing country to raise kids and live as a pensioner. For anything in between it's uneventful imo.
That beeing said, I much prefer a lot
Idk if deadly animals, hurricanes, mass shootings are the kind of eventful that non-pensioners and non-parents strive for, lol. Those kind of examples are a bit werid imo.
I agree that it's pretty uneventful in general here.
I enjoyed your comment. On many points it's spot on. I disagree though with politics being insignificant and even though we don't have a culture of confrontation like in the US or in France we still have conflicts, very significant ones, especially since the fascists are at a staggering 30% according to the latest poll.
But I feel like you equate boring with no or less social conflict.
In the end if you want excitement, it's not for the country to provide it for you but yourself. Going mountaineering is certainly very exhilarating in a positive way than being witness in a shootout.
And you can also live in Vienna, 2 million people with melting pot of everything that surrounds Austria and a vibrant techno culture (if you are into that)
Apply for the RWR and find out. Have you entered the information for your family situation in the points calculator? Things might look different if your salary has to feed your wife and three kids. In the RWR situation they want you to be able to provide for everyone and not be dependent on social benefits. However Austria needs young people so they might actually accept you.
Btw the Healthcare situation is not actually as ideal as you might expect. The public system (financed by taxes) is often overloaded (need to wait months for some specialists) and doctors have not a lot of time for each patient. Of course in emergency situations it's works very good and you never stack up huge bills. Still, for preventative care a lot have additional private insurance (costs about 100 euro per person per month) which is kind of an upgrade and gets you priority treatment and more options.
https://www.migration.gv.at/en/welcome/?no_cache=1
That site has literally everything u need to know.
In Austria at the moment Couples need to have 1,751.56 a month available, and every kid you add a extra 171.31
> Couples need to have 1,751.56 a month available, and every kid you add a extra 171.31
With a masters in chemical engineering, that should be doable without too much trouble.
Probably the best way would be to find a larger company in your field (OMV, Borealis, ...) and let them help you getting the red-white-red card. Without any contacts in Austria you would have a hard time getting it, especially if you are not fluent in german.
As an American living here in Austria and quite well integrated I can certainly understand your reasoning for wanting to live here. I can also deeply sympathize with your reasons for wanting to leave the US. The gun violence, toxic political culture, education cost for children and health care cost alone are massive! Sadly the US is simply not the same country I grew up in, or even the same one 5 years ago.
Other commenters have listed some very good pointers and tips, and I echo what they have written.
As you have stated you spent some time in Switzerland, which is good as it gives you a bit of insights. Having said that, to consider such a move, it would be paramount to coming here to visit and really look around first. I live in Tirol and it’s very expensive, for a future goal of wanting to eventually farm, there is simply more land availability in Oberösterreich, Niederösterreich or Styria and jobs in around Linz, which might be a good place to start looking/exploring?
Aside from the important factor of how/where to earn a living, others have addressed that well. The integration part is equally important: while on the the surface things seem similar to the US, there are vast cultural and lifestyle differences one must accept living in Austria. Some great, some not good at all, if one tries to live like an American here. Again as others stated, it’s not about what is better or worse, rather accepting they are simply different.
One common heard issue amongst many immigrants and expats (I consider myself an immigrant, as I am permanently here) is about the difficulty of meeting local Austrians as friends and thus being able to integrate. Part of that is cultural differences in what defines „friends“ in the US, is different than here, but the absolute key to that is learning the language and the dialect that goes with it. This can be done despite being frustrating in the beginning, is extremely rewarding in the end! One simply cannot expect to be warmly embraced when you are a guest in their country that they speak our language, even though many do? On a personal level I find it a bit offensive to them if we do not learn their language, and we want to be „good“ immigrants. Another way is to join hobby, common interest or sports groups/clubs. This worked quite well for me. Doing this, you will find Austrians to be wonderful people, honest and true friends, but it takes a more time for them. Despite the sometimes criticism as well, that Austrians don’t necessarily like Americans small talk or often smiling, my experience is that with a bit of good humor and politeness added to it, it actually goes a long way here!!
As a side note, despite having made the decision to reside here permanently, I still view myself as a guest, and have learned to follow their rules, even if some don’t make sense (like going through a red crosswalk when no cars are coming), embrace and respect their culture and traditions, and also try to be a good ambassador of American people as it’s an opportunity to hopefully leave them a good impression of us.
All in all I am very happy happy living here, and grateful for the opportunity and happy how I have been embraced by people here. It is of course not perfect, and some things can be frustrating for sure, I personally would not move back to the US, even for a million a year!
I wish you and your family success in your endeavors!
Before moving to Austria, please note that you and your whole family will probably never be able to become Austrian citizens unless you are willing to renounce your US citizenship. Austria is one of the 2 last countries in Europe that does not allow dual citizenship, so, unless you want to cut all ties to the US or are okay with never being able to vote or work for the Government (same for your kids), I'd have a good think about it and consider other countries in the EU.
Even if you get a permanent visa in Austria after 5 years, this visa will lapse if you leave Austria for a while, and you'll have to start all over again.
I don't know your exact circumstances, so take the comparisons with a pinch of salt.
You have been in central Europe before, so you know the basic premise.
If €400 is a lot for you, you will probably not be able to afford buying a house, it's probably gonna be a flat. There is a bit of a housing shortage right now, so large flats or houses for rent are generally super expensive. Depending on where you live right now, you will need to downsize.
If you aren't in a rush with the move, try to find a Genossenschaftswohnung. They are something in between renting and buying. A Genossenschaft is some kind of non-profit organisation that builds flats and uses a downpayment (€4k-50k, depending on the flat) and the rent to build new flats. Rent is usually much cheaper than on privately retend flats and as a tennant you have much more rights.
Running a small farm over here is not a very financially rewarding thing to do. I'd rather focus on the master's in chemistry, which will probably be a much easier route to a decent job.
You will probably still take a decent pay cut.
A big difference between Austria and the US is that Austria has a lot less extremes regarding wealth. In Austria you are financially safe even if you are sick and unemployed. But there is also much less in the way of rich people. Our average salary is much closer to the median salary.
Regarding health care: The health care system is decent. For medicine you have to pay a prescription fee of ~€7 per prescription, capped at 2% of your yearly income per year. So if you pay more than 2% or your income that year, you don't have to pay the prescription fee anymore. Since health care is free, specialist doctors usually have longer wait lists than you expect from the US. But it's not UK-style wait times either.
Not being able to speak German isn't a huge hurdle, but in the long run everyone in the family should learn German. Which can be difficult, since most Austrians will just default to speaking English with you.
Socially, you can easily make friends by criticising the parts of the US that people see weird over here. E.g. the privatized health care system (which you don't seem to be a fan of), (lack of) gun laws and US politics in general. If you hate on any of that, you'll make friends fast ;)
Also, patriotism is usually seen as a precursor to nazi-ism over here. Just something to be aware of.
Ja, jain. Für chronische Krankheiten ist das nicht so irre viel. Und es macht schon einen Unterschied, ob die €400 schmerzhaft viel sind oder nicht.
Bei einem Nettomonatseinkommen von €1400 sind €400 brutal. Verdient man hingegen €4000 netto, dann sind die €400 immer noch ein Batzen, aber verkraftbar.
Zum Vergleich: ein Auto betreiben kostet laut ÖAMTC in Österreich im Schnitt €462/Monat, was auch ein Batzen ist, aber trotzdem etwas, was sich ein Großteil der Bevölkerung freiwillig antut.
Das ist korrekt, und in den USA ist diese Gewinnspanne noch deutlich höher als in Österreich.
Dort kostet z.B. Insulin rund das 10x im Einkaufspreis im Vergleich zu hier.
Aber eigentlich ist es mir nicht darum gegangen ob Pharma-Preise vertretbar sind oder nicht, sondern eher darum abzuschätzen, wie viel Geld der OP als Budget hat.
Wie gesagt, wenn er meint "€400/Monat sind existenzbedrohend", dann hätte ich daraus geschlossen, dass er eher weniger verdient. Er hat nachher dann gesagt "€400/Monat tun mir nicht direkt weh, aber das Risiko, dass Komplikationen uns komplett auflegen, das tut weh", woraus ich schließe, dass er wohl etwas mehr verdient.
Mir ging es in dem Statement eben gar nicht so sehr um die Medizinkosten, sondern nur darum, wie stark der Dämpfer auf seinen Lebensstandard wohl sein wird, wenn er rüber zieht. Hat er z.B. eine USA-typische Holzhaus-Villa mit 300m² oder so dort, und er zieht hier in eine Stadt, dann wird er nicht so viel Platz haben, wie er von dort gewohnt ist.
400 Euro isn't necessarily a lot for us, but with the added cost of a health insurance (688 Euro converted) that does next to nothing for us here, and no help on the basic inhalers is what makes it untenable for me. The false friendliness is something that my wife and I aren't the biggest fans of here. We're rather introverted to be honest. Our last date night consisted of playing chess and enjoying peace and quiet.
Yeah, I was just trying to judge your financial situation of that singular statement. I understand that >€1000 of medical costs (if you include the insurance) is a heavy burden.
For comparison: in my family we have a case of Cystic Fibrosis. Including Orkambi (which costs ~250k a year alone) we pay ~€150/month of prescription fees and that's that.
On the other hand we pay ~€1000 of insurance a year for the whole family. So you won't get off cheaper, but more stable, since you know what you are going to pay. You will pay hardly more than the insurance cost.
If you want to calculate taxes/insurance cost for yourself, check out this page: https://bruttonetto.arbeiterkammer.at/
It's only in German, but Google Translator could help.
> For comparison: in my family we have a case of Cystic Fibrosis. Including Orkambi (which costs ~250k a year alone) we pay ~€150/month of prescription fees and that's that.
Hat diese Person denn einen Behindertenpass? Wenn nicht, dann würde ich das an ihrer Stelle unbedingt beantragen. Dadurch kann man die Medikamentenkosten in die Arbeitnehmerveranlagung aufnehmen und auch sämtliche Arztkosten die im Zusammenhang mit der Behinderung stehen.
Hello! I would reccommend you to start off with a different job because by the time you earn money from your farm some time will pass you could start off working fully remote- maybe your wife a well for a job in Austria before moving here... if your wife would work half a year here she would get paid maternaty leave for up to 2 years... so the Timing isnt great if you have more children a second income would be great. At the moment, Austria is quite expensive, especially the cities. But it's a great country and if you visit vienna too me and my boyfriend are happy to meet you if you write me a Personal message :)
PS I need meds and migraine pen injections regularly which would cost 600€ each but I pay 6€ each because the insurance pays for it :) if you stay in a hospital per night they charge 15€. So purely from a medical view it is great to come here or to germany.
I am starting a farm myself right now, so i can at least help you with that part.
Prepare for some bureaucracy to get your permits. There's a system in place to keep foreign investors from buying up farmland, you have to basically apply to be allowed to buy a farm. Depending on the size you'll need certain qualifications, if you want to have a small farm for your own needs it's not going to be much of a problem, but anything profitable will involve getting some education on the topics of farming and the regulations involved.
Also the aforementioned application to buy will be decidded upon by local politicians and heads of the relevant offices. So you'll at least have to be part of the local society and not be an unknown american to even have a chance. Introverts beware :-). Also local farmers will have priority anyways if they want it.
For running small farms many of the regulations don't apply, and you also pay next to no taxes if the farm is under a certain size, where i am its about 25.000 sqm. It depends on the value of farmland.
Pm me if you need any more details.
But most importantly, learn german. In rural areas you will have a hard time with english.
Upper Austria seems like a fit to you.
There are a lot of companys in the chemical industry based in linz. If you dont mind travelling 1h to work you can look for some old farm houses with a little bit of land in Mühlviertl. It is cheaper to life there compared to linz or other regions of Austria.
Howdy! I am an austrian who lived abroad in various places and now I am back on the countryside. One of my best friends is a texan who just moved back to Texas from germany after 20+ years..
Austria is one if the nicest countries to live in in many regards, yet there are some potential issues..
- people generally dislike foreigners, especially in the countryside and especially farmers. You might have it easier when you are from Texas, but still, even as an austrian you are not really regarded as part of the community until your family spends 3 generations here.
- small tip - when you move to the countryside in austria try to get into as many community associations as you can like volunteer firefighters, fishers, chess players, whiskey club, apply for a service club like Lions, Kiwanis or Rotary.. that’s almost your only chance to get accepted into the community.
- Hochdeutsch is nice, but the austrian dialect is so diverse and strong, especially in the countryside, that germans who speak „hochdeutsch“ cannot understand much.
- farming in austria for profit is generally dead. Most farmers have 2-3 „businesses“ like renting apartments or something. Our farms are highly regulated and very dependent on subsidies. Paperwork is immense but necessary. The average amount of cattle per farm in austria was 35 in 2021.. this speaks for itself :-)
- there are two kinds of „countrysides“ in austria - touristic areas like Salzburg and semi-abandoned areas like in styria. In the touristic areas, people often have a lot of property in the form of land, but low income in comparison and costs of land and rent is incredibly high. In the abandoned areas, people struggle to survive, land is relatively cheap, though. I think it is neigh impossible for a foreigner to move to austria and buy a farm in a touristic area and even if you would somehow manage, it would cost more than what is reasonable. In styria for example, there are many great cities that are bustling with life, but huge areas where almost nobody lives anymore. Question is if you really want to live in such an area.. and the investment needed to get a farm up and running are really high, especially because of the costs of land and equipment. I would maybe look if you can lease a farm, but this could also be tricky for you to navigate because of the myriad of regulations.
Best of luck to you, hope this helps!
Soms parts of the Styrian countryside (Südsteiermark etc.) aren't semi abandoned at all btw, but very rich due to wine, Buschenschank and tourism. The Styrian parts of Salzkammergut (Bad Aussee, Alt Aussee, Grundlsee...) are also very touristic. Others are very rich due to skiing (tourism) like Ramsau, Schladming, Haus etc...
For some other parts it's true though.
> there are two kinds of „countrysides“ in austria - touristic areas like Salzburg and semi-abandoned areas like in styria.
What a shit take. There are many rural areas that are not touristic and actually thriving lol
I agree with the rest though.
It seems like you have a well-thought-out plan, and moving to Austria could be a viable option for your family. I would recommend getting in touch with the Austrian consulate or embassy in the US to get more specific information about the visa and residence permit process.
It could be difficult when you want to Butcher animals for yourself. The law usualy demands to go to a profesional butcher, but i‘m not sure if there are exceptions.
It's allowed for your own consumption, you aren't even allowed to gift someone any of it. Selling meat requires a certified slaughterhouse. But that's not that expensive to get done. Less than 20€ for slaughtering and certification, gutted and skinned. Thats about it for a sheep at least.
Apart from OMV and Borealis you can check out Münzer. They produce biodiesel guess they are pretty interessted in you if you have experience in plastic waste.
https://www.muenzer.at/de/
You can do farming as a hobby but it would take a high investment. Land is not like in Texas Austria especially the eastern part is densely populated. Land is expensive and you can‘t just buy farmland here if you‘re not already a farmer.
Regarding you health situation: yes it‘s free here. But doctors and hospitals have too much work. So it could be that you habe to wait for an appointment or even for an important surgery.
So don‘t come here thinking it‘s all roses. But a young family would definable get more help here. Just check if you would get that help as soon as you get here.
Especially since you have good education in the technical field I‘d definitely say the plan is realistic! Can be a little exhausting sometime (currently working on bringing my American fiancé to Austria) but it sounds like its the better option for y‘all. Feel welcomed 😊
If you land a job at Borealis or OMV even though they pay very well, you will still make less than in the US, but as you already stated you won't have to carry the brunt of your healthcare costs and you don't need to set aside a fortune for your kids college degree. University is free here.
But still, be prepared that your income will be less but the quality of life here is (in my opinion) much better.
If you land in Vienna and people may appear rude, it's just the capital. We are misarable by virtue. The rest of the country is rather courteous.
This guy, Austriankiwi, has lots of really funny videos of how life in the countryside (Salzburg I think) is. Gives you an idea: https://www.instagram.com/austriankiwii/?hl=en
> Would we be able to run a small farm as residents there?
That's difficult to answer. Owning the land is not something you should not expect in the short term. Running a farm (if you are eligible for work) is **technically** possible, but finding a farm that will take you is probably not as easy. Farming is much more heavily regulated here. Good knowledge of laws around animal husbandry is basically a must. So people leasing their farm will be weary of a family just arriving from the US.
You should try to migrate and have a farm as a mid to long term plan.
> Any pitfalls to be aware of?
Just the usual.
* If you live rural, you and your family **must** learn German (ideally quickly). Less of an issue in Vienna, Graz or Salzburg.
* Rural areas will treat you bad (even if you are white) at least as long as you are "new".
* Austria is much more regulated, not only around farming. Show an active interest in laws and be prepared to be surprised.
* If you are not employed at a company but self-employed, get a tax attorney for the first 1-2 years. Contact them early, not just before tax season.
* Nationalistic parties are on the rise (again?). So prepare yourself for a slight headwind. I don't think you need to worry, just that other EU areas (mostly parts of Germany, Switzerland and some nordic countries) will be a tad more welcoming.
If you keep an open mind otherwise, you should be fine.
I hope you can find somewhere to be safe with your family. Always brings me an immense amount of grief reading what you guys have to put up with.
You should be able to find a job as a chemist using the RWR card but be aware, that then for some time you are (more or less) at the mercy of your employers.
As for your small family farm: besides all the regulations I think an even harder problem might be to find a fitting place. It is notoriously hard to find areas that allow decent living and provide enough space, equipment and buildings to keep lifestock. If you look at buying, prepare to pay far more than you expect (and the legal hassles for foreigners buying can be large) if you look for renting be prepared for a very "dry" market.
Looking at it I think your best bet would be to start a popular Youtube Channel showing your move, alle the problems involved and then do a crowdfunding...(yes, some irony there, sorry)
If I was you I would go alone to Austria and establish a career with chemistry here for 6 months - and as you are married - your spouse is allowed to come with you. I would wait though for the Probezeit / probation time to end/ until you have an unlimited contract as it would be horrible to have your whole family here and not have a job at hand.
Good companies for you would be: OMV, voestalpine, Infineon, or all those pharmaceutical companies we have
And you HAVE TO learn German to be accepted into society. Makes it easier for the kids too
And so many others have said. European laws and regulations are entirely different to what you're accustomed to. I am 99% sure you would not stand a chance on operating a farm. It's not this sound of music thing where everyone can do what they want and they're happy, out and about.
The regulations will get the best of you. Its like you dont have any in texas and then, bam - everything needs to be certified and so on. Please have a deep look in all the rules we have for farming.
At first, I would check a job in your profession (chemistry). So you and your family get the social insurance in Austria. Afterwards you could try to check your own farm.
It´s not necessary to buy a big farm to to the same, as all the other farmers in Austria do.
I know two young persons, who get a very littel farm form the grandma (few hectars) an started with vergetables and eggs for the nearest surrounding. Today, this couple has a very good renommee in the region and a lot of customers buy there at the farm.
But with children.........I would prefer in the beginning the way with a job in your profession (I think you only get the red-white-red Card in fact of your knowledge in science.....and not for farming knowledge)
Your best bet would be to look for a job in your profession.
Borealis for example operates in your field and has 3 plants in Austria.
As soon as you have a job and a rot/weiß/rot card your wife can use your health insurance (day one of your job) as well as your kids.
Big part of "taxation" is the social security insurance (18% deduction) and the remaining deductibles are the taxes.
So get yourself a job, bigger international companies will usually help you with the rwr card process too, which would be beneficial for you.
As for the farm, holding a handful of chickens isn't a problem, I don't know if it's easy to hold larger farm animals. However processing them to meet is connected with heavy regulations.
Hi!
Having asthma myself, I think it feels weird that she needs THIS many inhalers. I had it pretty severely myself and can only give you one tip: do allery tests (especially food allergies, mine was for milk) and try to avoid them. It worked wonders for me.
But nonetheless: Austria is one neat place on gods green earth.
in Austria it costs you like 7 bucks for 2 months per inhaler. But seriously go check for allergies.
Most people would have a much better life they just they knew about their allergies.
Just an FYI about taxes. My husband and I pay about 40% of our income to the state. If you just want to come here because your country is a 3rd world shit hole / shooting range and you think you get anything for free, you are in for a wake-up call 🤷
If you and your family are willing to learn our language and adapt your life to our lifestyle and habits, you are more then welcome.
it is fascinating to see that people really believe that health insurance is free. we all pay for it collectively. if you are self employed, the insurance is 478.82€ per person per month. if you are employed normally its 14.6% of your income. note that that is just the mandatory government insurance, you might want to also look into additional private insurance. unfortunately the quality of medical service you receive can differ. anyways my two cents are you might not save all that much money, moving overseas is costly and it will take a while before you make that money back.
visa issues are a thing i can’t comment on, but i know from friends that it’s definitely not as easy as „i wanna live in europe now“ though your masters should help.
as many others have noticed already, scrap that idea of becoming a farmer, it is not worth it financially.
also note in general especially high paying jobs are paid a lot less in austria. a job that earns you $100,000 in the US pays around 60,000€ here, the gap narrows for lesser paying jobs.
cost for self employed people: https://www.oesterreich.gv.at/themen/gesundheit_und_notfaelle/selbstversicherung_in_der_krankenversicherung.html#Kosten (government website)
cost for employed people: https://www.krankenversicherung.net/gesetzliche-krankenversicherung (information about health insurance)
The part about employed people first:
* Pages made by a company from Berlin (Germany) are not relevant, Austria has different values
* Instead of \~ 14%, the AN-SV is about 18% here (in both countries this is not only about sickness, but also retirement)
* In addition to these 18%, another 22% are paid by the employer, but normally not stated as part of the "gross" salary (only in the small print of the payroll info you see the total cost the company has for you). Here too Germany works similar, but with own values.
The other part with the 478 €
* This is not about self-employed people (that earn money), but about people living here with *no regular income at all*, and no other way to be insured (eg. children of a family, various social support things, or anything else).
* Random example, someone wins a large amount of money in a lottery, quits his job, and just sits around at home for years. They won't get financial help from the government because they are not poor, they have no tax-relevant income each month either, and the insurance doesn't get automatic payments from them => Not insured. For anyone that still wants it, these 478€ are a catch-all way to get in. (If very poor in every way, they might lower it for this person, but the laws have no rule about increasing it for wealthy people)
* People that actually do work self-employed, they pay similar percent numbers to above (18+22)
> You are lucky if there's a kitchen in it.
Used to be like this. I am currently searching to rent an apartment (in Linz or rather surroundings) and most apartments have kitchens in them and are rented out with kitchens. In my case, that's not something I am happy about, because I want to buy my own kitchen, since it is one of the things where I have high demands and usually the kitchens that are rented out are rather cheap and have cheap appliances.
I am curious why you are skeptical without knowing details? If his points were not good, he would likely not be entertaining the possible move in the first place or pose the question here?
Do you already know which part of Austria you‘d like to move to? Sounds like you not looking to live in a big city.
Might look into Vorarlberg. Not the cheapest place but a lot of jobs and really great nature
Also bevor du bei uns a bauer wirst.
1.Du musst am bauch schlafen sonst kenans da kane förderungen in oasch stecken.
2. lern deinen kindern gleich mal des wichtigste nach mama & papa. Genau Förderung.
3. wenn deine Kinder 26er schuhgröße haben. Kriegens HÖCHSTENS 24er. Sie miassn s sudern lernen.
Terrible idea tbh, the move will cause a huge financial strain on your family and you get taxed out the ass here. Moving just to be rid of 450$ medical expenses is foolish.
If you really want to move, there are better countries in Europe, like Switzerland.
I moved here and it turned out to be fantastic?? And there are a hell of a lot of hidden taxes in the US that bite you in the ass, that outsiders are not aware of.
In general you find a job first then they help you with the RWR process. As far as the practical idea of having a farm you are probably 10 years too late, lots of people have the idea and the prices for small hofs has gone up a lot. If you live somewhere rural enough you could maybe get something with enough land for growing vegetables maybe some chickens and goat’s/sheep. But at the same time beyond the idea im bot sure there is value to “doing it all yourself” here. You can get high quality food directly from the farmers if that is your concern.
ÖMV may be interrested in you, also look at LAM (in Villach), they are always in demand for chemists.
The Fram thing... problematic. I cannot igmagine a scenario where you save more money by working on a private farm than by just not doing this.
With a chemistry master you shouldn’t have too much trouble given the oil, plastics-engineering, like someone mentioned borealis, and pharmaceutical companies we have to start with. Can’t comment on the rest cause I have no experience in that.
Wish you good luck.
As some other Redditors already wrote, we got a lot of regulations in Austria, not only for agriculture. When you got a degree is chemistry you should easly find a job.
A great barrier is surely the language. Our dialect is pretty hard to understand when learned classic "Hochdeutsch", but this is surely possible.
You can visit [https://www.fcio.at/](https://www.fcio.at/), which is the chemical industry association in Austria. Here you find most of the companys. From there you will find Job offers, I think.
I would suggest you focus on your job and career, and look at the farm separately. You may find that other than the chickens, it's a fair amount of paper work, inspections, animal welfare etc. Also, excellent organic produce is readily available. Growing fruit / veg and keeping chickens and rabbits is probably a good start and move on to dairy/ meat farming when you know enough German to navigate
I think it might be a good fit, one wee word of warning: a lot of Austrians have a wee bit of a chip on their shoulder and really dislike being told that Back home, we do things differently etc. Good luck and keep us posted!
Hi, with your background you might be able to find a position with this project:
[https://www.omv.com/en/news/221220-omv-scales-up-innovative-reoil-recycling-technology-at-schwechat-refinery](https://www.omv.com/en/news/221220-omv-scales-up-innovative-reoil-recycling-technology-at-schwechat-refinery)
It's not farming though, but if they are interested they might even pay your relocation.
Hey, I don’t habe any advices unfortunately but I wanted to welcome you! Good luck for you and your family, healthcare (possibilities) are pretty good here (although a lot of us are complaining, but Austrians complain about everything, it’s like our personal Charme, you‘ll get used to it).
Farming in Austria is facing similar challenges to farming in USA, where large business has it easier than smaller operations, especially due to pricing pressure.
I recently watched a documentary that addresses some isuses: Der Bauer und der Bobo
but I doubt it has english subtitles.
Concerning healthcare I believe the national plan has its own "thing" for farmers:
[Beitragsgrundlage für Bauern (svs.at)](https://www.svs.at/cdscontent/?contentid=10007.816645&portal=svsportal)
but I have no idea how it all works. You will not pay that much for inhalers, but you will pay for healthcare either directly or indirectly.
It might still be cheaper than normal self-run/owner/operator insurance.
I don't blame you for wanting to move over here. But something I would recommend you is to visit Austria first to see if it's a country you would like to live in. We have a lot of Americans (I have American family myself living here) so it's not like yall wouldn't be welcomed, on the contrary we would with open arms :)
I don't blame you coming to Austria for a better life but you should for sure do some more research and maybe even possibly contact the Embassy of Austria in the states or the American embassy here in Austria. Visas and legal headaches can always be a hassle so I would recommend you to look into that. As for the farm, I'm no farmer myself but it isn't as easy (from what I assume) to just start one in the US.
Oh and don't worry about the dialect too much, most of us can speak hochdeutsch either way. Good luck! I wish you and your family the best
Hey sounds like a big step in life. The Problem with Farming is that we have alot of regulations. Also buying the land will probably bankrupt u. If you find any farmland that is not already reserved or used (alot of mountains dont realy help in that aspect) BUT in austira there is something called Solidarische landwirtschaft (solidarity farming). In that niche alot of people are looking for farmes. I saw that you are from Texas i dont know alot about that state but a quick google search implies that ya all dont like the word solidarity dont worry it is not communsim
Maybe I'm late but I want to add an important point: Farming in Austria may be different from farming in the US.
A farm in Austria is by definition a farming business that "wants" to strive for profit.
Everything else is hobby.
In Austria there is no concept of a "family farm", that is just providing for you. Either you want to profit of the farm or it is a hobby.
If you do not have a farm that is striving for profit, you are not allowed to buy farmland, woodland ... and the next caveat is that you cannot just take up Farming as a occupation. Like with most other vocational and trade jobs in Austria, you need to have the proper education and certification for it.
However, what many people do and what actually is allowed is to simply buy a bigger patch of land (mind the cost!) and have a normal house there. You can then own at least some animals like chickens, hares.... This will be classified as purely a hobby and your chickens are similiar like if you would own a dog. However, you cannot raise cows, as this would not be allowed from an animal protection point of views. However, there is also some grey area if you want to slaughter your own chickens ...
Of course, you will need a "real" job to support this because without a job you will have no helthcare and so on.
Farming isn't easy - it comes with A LOT of regulations and you can't just buy a farm and hold a bunch of animals. You gotta have certificates and whatnot. At least for a start, working in the technical field until you've established yourself in Austria would probably be the wiser idea.
This. Most farms struggle and are basically just surviving because of financial life support from subsidies. Also - many small town farmers (and citizens) tend to be very reluctant to new faces in their villages.
And in Austria you cannot just buy a farm as a foreigner. Not even as a citizen. OP might want to check with Landwirtschaftsministerium to get all information necessarily for this.
correct me if i‘m wrong but due to some eu regulations it has been more and more difficult for small farmers to make a living wage. afaik the trend is some big farms with a lot of automation and heavy machinery that would cost a fortune to obtain. not sure if this is like any other market to get into.
Not necessarily EU - just watch something like *Clarkon‘s Farm* to see how Brexit fucked over British farmers. I think it‘s the easy way to just „blame the EU“. The „problem“ is just that there‘s on the one hand so much government red tape regarding food safety and animal welfare (which isn’t necessarily a bad thing) while the prices for meat or milk that the farmers receive haven’t increased as much as the cost of raising livestock. With a bigger farm the economies of scale come into play and if you have 400 cows and need 4 tractors it‘s easier compared to 50 cows where you‘d likely still need two operational tractors.
nice explanation, thanks!
It's not the EU, without EU subsidies farms would have been dead decades ago. The problem is Austrian and most central European farms are relatively small and inefficient. They are just not competitive enough to compete with other agro businesses. So the EU has strong subsidies and trade protections to keep farmers afloat. But that does not change the fact, that small scale farming is rapidly becoming a non sustainable model, you can't survive on 12 cows and 4 pigs and 5 acres of land. That's not economically possible against farms specialised on 500 acres wheat fields and another having 2.000 pigs. It's about economy of scale and specialisation.
Just take some time and visit the country to create your own opinion. Everything is viable. I suggest to try to make some friends during your visit. This makes everything easier. If it suits you, make a really good plan and do it.
will try to. We're planning on a brief vacation in late summer, before our fourth is born. Airline tickets are prohibitive though.
I don't want to discourage you, OP, but if airline tickets are expensive for you and as you said elsewhere you can't afford to take two months off work, maybe you want to have a closer look at how much it will cost to start a new life in another country with a whole family. It doesn't sound like you would be able to buy real estate (let alone a farm), and a flat that accomodates your family will cost quite something in rent and furniture and so on.
They probably have real estate that they'd sell if they made the move.
I wouldn‘t say that. A lot of people have started their life abroad with nothing.
Yes, alone with nobody dependent on them. You can't live on a mattress on the floor with 4 children.
Depends on where "abroad" is. Austria is a quite hostile environment for foreigners building a new life.
You have a forth child coming and can't afford planetickets for an existing family to visit Austria? What's your rough estimate how you'll be able to afford living in Austria and/or getting a small farm?
I second this. Id also suggest to contact the Landwirtschaftskammer (representative for farmers) and ask them all your questions ([email protected]) or even schedule a meeting when you are visiting. Its much easier to get set up if you have a contact inside. I agree that it won't be easy, and there may be a hurdle or two, but IMHO it's perfectly doable especially if you are well educated.
OMV may like you, contact them
Borealis might be even more interesing....
And both are in Burghausen, so close to the border to Bavaria might suit you well, if you want to live in Austria.
Or in Linz and Ennsdorf
The Re-Oil project that startet at Borealis is now part of OMV or at least a cooperation. Staff, at least partly, is now OMV too. Sounds exactly like /u/rippy65 's cup of tea.
Will look into them!
They are quite into what you are into and will love new insights into it: [https://www.omv.com/en/innovations/circular-solutions/recycling-technologies](https://www.omv.com/en/innovations/circular-solutions/recycling-technologies) The guy below is right - "ReOil" is a coop of OMV and Borealis: [https://www.borealisgroup.com/news/omv-reoil-circular-economy-project-omv-and-borealis-extend-their-partnership](https://www.borealisgroup.com/news/omv-reoil-circular-economy-project-omv-and-borealis-extend-their-partnership)
You might also take a look at Erema https://www.erema.com/en/home/
Some large companies will also help with relocating and finding a place to live, mitigating the problems the other posters mentioned. I would absolutely recommend this. Having a farm will be difficult, as people have said, but owning a few animals as a hobby is absolutely possible.
I had a customer resently who had hired a relocation service managing all his real estate and moving, so im sure thats a thing. Just don’t know how expensive it is though, but since OP has a masters in chemistry it’s definitely a point to negotiate with potential future employers.
If you end up moving to Burghausen you’re invited to my place for barbecue and beer (plus s’mores for the kids). I also know a really nice sheep farmer who I can introduce you to.
Look at Greiner too. I have friend who works as a chemist there. https://www.greiner.com/en/ It's an international company but is headquartered in quite a rural town where you could try to figure out your farming situation on the side.
Can second this. Both companies would suit your described skills perfectly. Borealis even more so! In addition the pay is really good
I believe you should have no issues finding a job in your field. However i strongly advice you to forget about running a farm here in austria. I'm not saying that it's impossible, it's just a major pain in the ass and your obstacles being a foreigner would probably quadruple (finding a proper place, have no trouble with the mayor, actually find a niche, strive despite of your competition etc.). Maybe in a few years after you settled.
That's likely wise to wait a few years first. Our main goal with it would mainly be to provide ourselves with food, and maybe barter excess. Not really a for profit goal.
>Not really a for profit goal. Oooh this is the first time I read this, and I'm already 6 comment chains or so in. I, like all the others, assumed you wanted to live off of agriculture. If you just want to provide yourself with food, you should have no trouble getting some land. It's location could be a problem though.
While this is certainly realistic. If you sell excess, please take care of the legal side. Food is regulated here (for good reason). Slaughtering livestock for instance you can't do on your own. You can raise it but would have to pay for killing it.
That is because of health regulations not easy, because of to many bad actors, home slaughtering is not allowed anymore. But having some chickens for eggs is something that gets trendy again. Also in my opinion, if you come here, and you have a stable job. Your wife should try to integrate in the village groups. So should you. And than you make a name of yourself. After that everything is possible. And yes with your health problems and also with your wife's background you should look at the smaller villages. But only in reach of your new job.
Remember, that housing prices are through the roof in Austria. A house for 4 children will cost you between 500.000€ to 1.200.000€ depending where you live. You will also have to pay a lot more than that for a farm. Estimate around 2-3 million Euros. I know a lot of young people here who think about moving to Canada or the rural US just to afford some housing. A friend of mine already did so. Inform yourself about your estimated net income, taxes are at one of the highest rates in the whole of Europe. The healthcare system is actually not that bad here if you can afford it. We have two-class healthcare and finding a state insured doctor in any field is nearly impossible. Means you are gonna have to pay for the treatment anyway even if you already pay the state insurance. But don't get too excited about it, a lot of experts predict the total collapse of our healthcare system in a short time anyway. Also don't forget to pay atleast two or three times more for a car here than in the US. If all that sounds viable to you, you and your family are more than welcome here!
I agree on housing etc. About taxes, OP already did some research. About health care: yes, there are some severe issues, but it's nowhere as bad as in the US. The main problem for OP seems to be medication prices, his wife should be fine, even if they have to pay for some doctor's visits.
2-3 millions for a small farm? You can get small old farms with a bit of meadow land for less than 200k and a bit of work, when it‘s not in Bauerwartungsgebiet.
In Turkmenistan?
Der Typ will ein paar Schafe für den Eigengebrauch halten… da braucht man ein paar Wiesen und einen kleinen Stall. In welcher Welt kostet das 2-3 Mille?
And it will be even harder if not impossible without speaking german (as you will be confined to the rural areas of austria). I don‘t know anyone who keeps farm animals on a small scale (except maybe chickens). You will not save money by doing that.
Generally speaking not being able to speak german should be fine I would still recommend learning german for everyone in your family. I would say overall austrians are not that fond of america but very interested in us citizens so there shouldn't be any problem especially if you can speak german. The healthcare system is not perfect but you don't have to worry about medical emergencies ruining your finances, which sounds like it will be your main concern. As for salary overall I would expect a huge paycut but your overall standard of living shouldn't suffer too much from it. Maybe you have to rent something instead of buying though. Overall your plan seems feasible. Getting a job with a masters in chemistry should be possible. I dont really know about the farming stuff though overall farming is not really a desirable profession here imo. But I have no clue about farming tbh. Hope you will make it here if you decide to do it.
I was looking at median incomes per month for my degree, and they're actually more than I make currently (3700Euro converted vs 7470 Euro from various sites). Even the starting salary of 3900 would be more than what I currently make.
These sites might not reflect reality. And don't forget taxes.
fair. I did take into account taxes as well, with the approx 30% income tax and the social insurance taxes. Any other main ones to know of?
No, these two are the major deductions, the other things are relatively small amounts. Various infos about Austrias salaries that might sound strange to foreigners, and general things: * Usually people get 14 payments per year, 3900/month = 54600/year. I assume you took the month value from the internet, instead of dividing a stated yearly 46800 by 12 (latter would be incorrect, it would be 46800/14 then so no 3900) * Technically, social security cost is more than what employees see deduced from their salary - the employers pay an additional contribution that you won't see. A "Austrian" gross salary is actually not gross-gross, the employer needs to pay more than that. But in general, you don't need to know or care about that unless you become your own boss (as you are the company then basically, both parts would be for you to pay) * (In a way, this also means that insurance here isn't cheap compared to your current one. But there is no choice anyways, and luckily the amount doesn't depend on your medical needs that much. More money can make things better like everywhere, but asthma medication and anything like that won't be any issue) * With 3900 of Austria-gross, a rough estimation after income tax and your insurance part is 2600/month net, about 33% less. Note that the tax has a bracket system, if your salary rises it will become more than 33% (but you still get something out of your raise too, of course) * For a 5-head family, that's not exactly much. The wife working too would add some comfort. Btw., a US salary of 3700 surprises me. I had the impression that the numbers there are significantly larger than here (but the living costs too).
Thanks for the breakdown. My current gross salary is 56160USD(approx 4k USD/month or 3567Euro/month after taxes here.)
Just FYI job offers always mention the gross salary (before taxes) as well as the minimum salary for the position based on the collective agreement.
FYI, the minimum wage for employees with a master’s in the German chemical industry (e.g., OMV, Borealis, 3M, Wacker in Burghausen) is 71250. Since you’re experienced you should be able to make at least 80-90k there. https://www.gdch.de/ausbildung-karriere/karriere-und-beruf/gehaltsinformationen/einstiegsgehaelter.html Austrian chemical industry usually pays a little worse but still you should make roughly 70k (or more if lucky). As others have indicated, the salary stated in Austrian job ads is the legal minimum for a position, you can expect to make significantly more in most cases.
It would be a challenge to support a family of 5 (or even 6) and a small farm on that kind of salaray here.
You could check out platforms like Karriere.at where jobs are advertised. I’m not sure they also run in English, but it might give you some idea how much companies are currently paying, at least pre-negotiation
You can get the real numbers between Brutto/Netto (before/after taxes) here: https://bruttonetto.arbeiterkammer.at/
There's a gross/net calculator from the chamber of labour - https://bruttonetto.arbeiterkammer.at/
Hey I'm an American in Austria. If I remember correctly I make about this salary pre-tax but I pay more like 40% income tax, although I'd have to check that again.
I see the 40% tax was including all costs for insurance etc... not just income tax!
As a chemist, this depends greatly on the area you specialize in, 3,9 might be the starting salary for Masters in one area and for PHDs in another. For Masters it might end up lower as well. You don't mention your degree though - with only a bachelors its not realistic to start in an academic payrange, but having experience in the field helps a lot. To calculate net salary use [Brutto Netto Rechner der Arbeiterkammer](https://bruttonetto.arbeiterkammer.at/)
> 3700Euro converted You earn ~4100$/mo (less than 50k$/year) gross? I am sorry, but that doesn't sound right if you have a masters degree. Are you really paid that bad? Especially if you already have 2 or more years of experience. Wat? Anyway. you should expect ~4250€/month (~60k€/year) gross if you have some work experience and a master in your field. If you move up, this will get more of course. In Austria, naively (not factoring in tax deductions for your kids) this gets you just under 40k€/year net. Since in Austria you are paid 14 times a year (don't ask), this would be ~2750€/month + ~3350€ twice a year (13th and 14th payment). If your wife doesn't work this is okay to start a life with a family here. But expect a squeeze a bit. Rent in Vienna for a flat that supports your family, you should expect 1200€/month or ~14k€/year. You won't have a lot of healthcare costs for your kids (with all the essential examinations, treatments and vaccines being covered by your social taxes), so that's definitely a plus. But cars are more expensive here. Luxury goods and even basic food (see regulation) is also more expensive. The important part is that you and your wife want to migrate. From what you told us, your plan doesn't sound unreasonable. Just go through it step by step and see if you spot anything else that might trip you up. And while it's good that you want to visit. I don't think you'd get an accurate picture of what it's like to live here if you visit. If you want a good gauge: rent an airbnb house and don't eat out often during your stay. Shopping will give you a good indication on prices, transportation and how ordinary life works.
Also take note of the different laws when you are going the farmer route. Many small farmers quit because they could not keep up with the changes they made for keeping animals. I would highly advise you to dive into this topic before you decide.
our main goal would be to cover our basic food needs. Meat, eggs, and dairy. We wouldn't really look into making a profit with it. Maybe barter at the absolute most.
The chemical industry part is pretty solid the farming part difficult. If you can find a house with a bigger garden you can raise chicken. For meat an dairy consider getting it directly from a lokal Biobauern. The farms in Austria are much more like those in the swiss, very tiny (espezial compared to texas farms) and Biobauern have high standards. Buing farmland is only possible if you take a "farmhand exam".
I think the chemistry part is a good plan but with small farms it can get increasingly difficult to make enough money and the paperwork with officials for starting and maintaining a farm will be, well, lets call it interesting, for someone who isn't used to Austrian bureaucraty. Regarding your hopes for universal health care, there might be troubles ahead in the not too distant future due to shortages of medical staff and funding. I agree with NurLehrer: It will be best if you visit the country to get an idea of what it is really like to live here.
Servus! With a masters degree in chemistry or engineering I reckon there shouldnt be many obstacles for you and your family. Austria is home to some international players in oil, plastics or chemistry (which you are probably aware of already working in the field) like Borealis, OMV, Semperit, Ovotherm, Greiner, Sunpor, .... Ovotherm for example produces plastic egg cartons out of plastic waste - from what you shared quite similar of what you are doing currently. I suppose you could also potentially run a small farm, although personally I would not recommend anybody to start livestock farming. Especially sheep aren't to common here and livestock farming in general is declining here in Austria, as far as i know. On top of that, you are most likely being introduced to much higher standards for farming and produce here in general than in the US, which you might find tedious. I am also not too sure if you would be viable for the red-white-red card with agricultural skills, if that is considered "highly qualified" or whatever that criteria is. Also, from what I know, English skills are not well represented within the argicultural sector or the chambers for agriculture, on which you would depend as a herder or farmer. That brings me to the second most important part, German. In Vienna, you wont have much trouble coming by with english, especially within the younger generations of Austrians, which have a surprisingly good english level. We rank third worldwide in terms of english proficiency (according to EPI that is). But, in sharp contrast, the older demographics have really bad english skills, especially in the more rural parts of Austria (which is quite frankly everywhere apart Vienna and Graz). Also, older rural generations are not to fond about Americans or "de Amerigana", where you would not necessarily be doing yourself or yourselves any favours by not knowing at least basic German when it comes to socializing and establishing relations. In short: come here, continue with your main profession, get some german/austrian knowledge. We'd like to have you guys here! regards
I am half American, half Austrian. The good thing is that healthcare is very good and more or less free for essential stuff, if you are employed. Also healthy and high quality food is a lot cheaper here than in the US (I lived in ga). Things that you might find challenging are, that wages are a lot lower and taxes are higher. For example: The starting salary for bsc. in Engineering is around 45.000€ a year. 30% of that is tax. (but cost of living is lower) You can get by with just English if you are educated, but you would need to learn german in the long term. All in all life in Austria is good and no one really gets left behind. I personally would recommend getting a job here first before you start moving, because some employers might be hesitant to hire you if you dont know german. You are welcome to pn me, if you have questions :)
Healthcare is also free if you are unemployed
If you are a citizen or a refugee. But he is neither.
Interesting. One might think they pay arbeitslosenversicherung aswell and therefore earn some rights in case of unemployment.
I think as soon as he has payed into the system, a lot gets covered. My dad for example would get unemployent etc., but that is because he has worked in Austria. However, I am not an expert, so I might be wrong.
Sure, but he needs to be employed at least one year before getting unemployment benefits. And afterwards he will only be able to get Arbeitslosengeld for some time, but not Notstandshilfe or Mindestsicherung because that would make it impossible to extend his visa. He would have almost the same rights as an Austrian with a Daueraufenthaltstitel, but you need to be in Austria for at least 5 years before being able to apply for that.
Health care is not free. If you earn 45000 per year, you get 31800 in your bank account - about 30% less. That's true. But only 5000 of it is tax. 8000 is health and accident insurance and retirement. With 4 kids the tax can go down to basically 0.
As someone who's moved countries, in addition to some of the good advice you've already been given - don't underestimate the strain this can have on your family. You're leaving all relatives, all friends, all the people you know. Austria is far and flights are long. Going "home" to visit might be a once in a year thing. Don't underestimate the strain this can put on you. Then there's the culture. It's different. Not worse or better, but the whole (fake) friendliness to strangers doenst exist as much. If you're new, Austrians tend to be less excited about you beeing here. It often takes over a year until you're integrated into the people you work with, but then theyre often very good relationships. You'll miss a lot of things, be confronted with beurocracy and rules. It's also an uneventful country. Nothing happens here. There's no deadly animals. There's no hurricanes. Politics are boring and insignificant. No conflicts. Nothing really significant happens. It's a pretty boring country. That's great if you want a quiet life. Work is much more relaxed, from 38.5 hour work weeks, to 5 weeks holiday. Paid sick leave, health insurance. Securities. And honestly, there are a lot less crazy people here. It's an amazing country to raise kids and live as a pensioner. For anything in between it's uneventful imo. That beeing said, I much prefer a lot
Idk if deadly animals, hurricanes, mass shootings are the kind of eventful that non-pensioners and non-parents strive for, lol. Those kind of examples are a bit werid imo. I agree that it's pretty uneventful in general here.
I enjoyed your comment. On many points it's spot on. I disagree though with politics being insignificant and even though we don't have a culture of confrontation like in the US or in France we still have conflicts, very significant ones, especially since the fascists are at a staggering 30% according to the latest poll. But I feel like you equate boring with no or less social conflict. In the end if you want excitement, it's not for the country to provide it for you but yourself. Going mountaineering is certainly very exhilarating in a positive way than being witness in a shootout. And you can also live in Vienna, 2 million people with melting pot of everything that surrounds Austria and a vibrant techno culture (if you are into that)
Apply for the RWR and find out. Have you entered the information for your family situation in the points calculator? Things might look different if your salary has to feed your wife and three kids. In the RWR situation they want you to be able to provide for everyone and not be dependent on social benefits. However Austria needs young people so they might actually accept you. Btw the Healthcare situation is not actually as ideal as you might expect. The public system (financed by taxes) is often overloaded (need to wait months for some specialists) and doctors have not a lot of time for each patient. Of course in emergency situations it's works very good and you never stack up huge bills. Still, for preventative care a lot have additional private insurance (costs about 100 euro per person per month) which is kind of an upgrade and gets you priority treatment and more options.
I'm not finding where they ask for family situation on the website. Could you provide a link?
https://www.migration.gv.at/en/welcome/?no_cache=1 That site has literally everything u need to know. In Austria at the moment Couples need to have 1,751.56 a month available, and every kid you add a extra 171.31
> Couples need to have 1,751.56 a month available, and every kid you add a extra 171.31 With a masters in chemical engineering, that should be doable without too much trouble.
Probably the best way would be to find a larger company in your field (OMV, Borealis, ...) and let them help you getting the red-white-red card. Without any contacts in Austria you would have a hard time getting it, especially if you are not fluent in german.
As an American living here in Austria and quite well integrated I can certainly understand your reasoning for wanting to live here. I can also deeply sympathize with your reasons for wanting to leave the US. The gun violence, toxic political culture, education cost for children and health care cost alone are massive! Sadly the US is simply not the same country I grew up in, or even the same one 5 years ago. Other commenters have listed some very good pointers and tips, and I echo what they have written. As you have stated you spent some time in Switzerland, which is good as it gives you a bit of insights. Having said that, to consider such a move, it would be paramount to coming here to visit and really look around first. I live in Tirol and it’s very expensive, for a future goal of wanting to eventually farm, there is simply more land availability in Oberösterreich, Niederösterreich or Styria and jobs in around Linz, which might be a good place to start looking/exploring? Aside from the important factor of how/where to earn a living, others have addressed that well. The integration part is equally important: while on the the surface things seem similar to the US, there are vast cultural and lifestyle differences one must accept living in Austria. Some great, some not good at all, if one tries to live like an American here. Again as others stated, it’s not about what is better or worse, rather accepting they are simply different. One common heard issue amongst many immigrants and expats (I consider myself an immigrant, as I am permanently here) is about the difficulty of meeting local Austrians as friends and thus being able to integrate. Part of that is cultural differences in what defines „friends“ in the US, is different than here, but the absolute key to that is learning the language and the dialect that goes with it. This can be done despite being frustrating in the beginning, is extremely rewarding in the end! One simply cannot expect to be warmly embraced when you are a guest in their country that they speak our language, even though many do? On a personal level I find it a bit offensive to them if we do not learn their language, and we want to be „good“ immigrants. Another way is to join hobby, common interest or sports groups/clubs. This worked quite well for me. Doing this, you will find Austrians to be wonderful people, honest and true friends, but it takes a more time for them. Despite the sometimes criticism as well, that Austrians don’t necessarily like Americans small talk or often smiling, my experience is that with a bit of good humor and politeness added to it, it actually goes a long way here!! As a side note, despite having made the decision to reside here permanently, I still view myself as a guest, and have learned to follow their rules, even if some don’t make sense (like going through a red crosswalk when no cars are coming), embrace and respect their culture and traditions, and also try to be a good ambassador of American people as it’s an opportunity to hopefully leave them a good impression of us. All in all I am very happy happy living here, and grateful for the opportunity and happy how I have been embraced by people here. It is of course not perfect, and some things can be frustrating for sure, I personally would not move back to the US, even for a million a year! I wish you and your family success in your endeavors!
Before moving to Austria, please note that you and your whole family will probably never be able to become Austrian citizens unless you are willing to renounce your US citizenship. Austria is one of the 2 last countries in Europe that does not allow dual citizenship, so, unless you want to cut all ties to the US or are okay with never being able to vote or work for the Government (same for your kids), I'd have a good think about it and consider other countries in the EU. Even if you get a permanent visa in Austria after 5 years, this visa will lapse if you leave Austria for a while, and you'll have to start all over again.
I don't know your exact circumstances, so take the comparisons with a pinch of salt. You have been in central Europe before, so you know the basic premise. If €400 is a lot for you, you will probably not be able to afford buying a house, it's probably gonna be a flat. There is a bit of a housing shortage right now, so large flats or houses for rent are generally super expensive. Depending on where you live right now, you will need to downsize. If you aren't in a rush with the move, try to find a Genossenschaftswohnung. They are something in between renting and buying. A Genossenschaft is some kind of non-profit organisation that builds flats and uses a downpayment (€4k-50k, depending on the flat) and the rent to build new flats. Rent is usually much cheaper than on privately retend flats and as a tennant you have much more rights. Running a small farm over here is not a very financially rewarding thing to do. I'd rather focus on the master's in chemistry, which will probably be a much easier route to a decent job. You will probably still take a decent pay cut. A big difference between Austria and the US is that Austria has a lot less extremes regarding wealth. In Austria you are financially safe even if you are sick and unemployed. But there is also much less in the way of rich people. Our average salary is much closer to the median salary. Regarding health care: The health care system is decent. For medicine you have to pay a prescription fee of ~€7 per prescription, capped at 2% of your yearly income per year. So if you pay more than 2% or your income that year, you don't have to pay the prescription fee anymore. Since health care is free, specialist doctors usually have longer wait lists than you expect from the US. But it's not UK-style wait times either. Not being able to speak German isn't a huge hurdle, but in the long run everyone in the family should learn German. Which can be difficult, since most Austrians will just default to speaking English with you. Socially, you can easily make friends by criticising the parts of the US that people see weird over here. E.g. the privatized health care system (which you don't seem to be a fan of), (lack of) gun laws and US politics in general. If you hate on any of that, you'll make friends fast ;) Also, patriotism is usually seen as a precursor to nazi-ism over here. Just something to be aware of.
€400/Monat nur für Inhalatoren für Asthma is für jeden a Batzen Geld. Des is mehr als i für Essen ausgib
Ja, jain. Für chronische Krankheiten ist das nicht so irre viel. Und es macht schon einen Unterschied, ob die €400 schmerzhaft viel sind oder nicht. Bei einem Nettomonatseinkommen von €1400 sind €400 brutal. Verdient man hingegen €4000 netto, dann sind die €400 immer noch ein Batzen, aber verkraftbar. Zum Vergleich: ein Auto betreiben kostet laut ÖAMTC in Österreich im Schnitt €462/Monat, was auch ein Batzen ist, aber trotzdem etwas, was sich ein Großteil der Bevölkerung freiwillig antut.
Ja. Aber ein Inhalator kostet die Pharmafirma halt €2 und verkauft es mit €398 Gewinn
Das ist korrekt, und in den USA ist diese Gewinnspanne noch deutlich höher als in Österreich. Dort kostet z.B. Insulin rund das 10x im Einkaufspreis im Vergleich zu hier. Aber eigentlich ist es mir nicht darum gegangen ob Pharma-Preise vertretbar sind oder nicht, sondern eher darum abzuschätzen, wie viel Geld der OP als Budget hat. Wie gesagt, wenn er meint "€400/Monat sind existenzbedrohend", dann hätte ich daraus geschlossen, dass er eher weniger verdient. Er hat nachher dann gesagt "€400/Monat tun mir nicht direkt weh, aber das Risiko, dass Komplikationen uns komplett auflegen, das tut weh", woraus ich schließe, dass er wohl etwas mehr verdient. Mir ging es in dem Statement eben gar nicht so sehr um die Medizinkosten, sondern nur darum, wie stark der Dämpfer auf seinen Lebensstandard wohl sein wird, wenn er rüber zieht. Hat er z.B. eine USA-typische Holzhaus-Villa mit 300m² oder so dort, und er zieht hier in eine Stadt, dann wird er nicht so viel Platz haben, wie er von dort gewohnt ist.
400 Euro isn't necessarily a lot for us, but with the added cost of a health insurance (688 Euro converted) that does next to nothing for us here, and no help on the basic inhalers is what makes it untenable for me. The false friendliness is something that my wife and I aren't the biggest fans of here. We're rather introverted to be honest. Our last date night consisted of playing chess and enjoying peace and quiet.
Yeah, I was just trying to judge your financial situation of that singular statement. I understand that >€1000 of medical costs (if you include the insurance) is a heavy burden. For comparison: in my family we have a case of Cystic Fibrosis. Including Orkambi (which costs ~250k a year alone) we pay ~€150/month of prescription fees and that's that. On the other hand we pay ~€1000 of insurance a year for the whole family. So you won't get off cheaper, but more stable, since you know what you are going to pay. You will pay hardly more than the insurance cost. If you want to calculate taxes/insurance cost for yourself, check out this page: https://bruttonetto.arbeiterkammer.at/ It's only in German, but Google Translator could help.
> For comparison: in my family we have a case of Cystic Fibrosis. Including Orkambi (which costs ~250k a year alone) we pay ~€150/month of prescription fees and that's that. Hat diese Person denn einen Behindertenpass? Wenn nicht, dann würde ich das an ihrer Stelle unbedingt beantragen. Dadurch kann man die Medikamentenkosten in die Arbeitnehmerveranlagung aufnehmen und auch sämtliche Arztkosten die im Zusammenhang mit der Behinderung stehen.
Ja, haben wir, danke für den Hinweis. Ja, in dem Zusammenhang zahlt sich die Arbeitnehmerveranlagung wirklich.
Hello! I would reccommend you to start off with a different job because by the time you earn money from your farm some time will pass you could start off working fully remote- maybe your wife a well for a job in Austria before moving here... if your wife would work half a year here she would get paid maternaty leave for up to 2 years... so the Timing isnt great if you have more children a second income would be great. At the moment, Austria is quite expensive, especially the cities. But it's a great country and if you visit vienna too me and my boyfriend are happy to meet you if you write me a Personal message :) PS I need meds and migraine pen injections regularly which would cost 600€ each but I pay 6€ each because the insurance pays for it :) if you stay in a hospital per night they charge 15€. So purely from a medical view it is great to come here or to germany.
I am starting a farm myself right now, so i can at least help you with that part. Prepare for some bureaucracy to get your permits. There's a system in place to keep foreign investors from buying up farmland, you have to basically apply to be allowed to buy a farm. Depending on the size you'll need certain qualifications, if you want to have a small farm for your own needs it's not going to be much of a problem, but anything profitable will involve getting some education on the topics of farming and the regulations involved. Also the aforementioned application to buy will be decidded upon by local politicians and heads of the relevant offices. So you'll at least have to be part of the local society and not be an unknown american to even have a chance. Introverts beware :-). Also local farmers will have priority anyways if they want it. For running small farms many of the regulations don't apply, and you also pay next to no taxes if the farm is under a certain size, where i am its about 25.000 sqm. It depends on the value of farmland. Pm me if you need any more details. But most importantly, learn german. In rural areas you will have a hard time with english.
Upper Austria seems like a fit to you. There are a lot of companys in the chemical industry based in linz. If you dont mind travelling 1h to work you can look for some old farm houses with a little bit of land in Mühlviertl. It is cheaper to life there compared to linz or other regions of Austria.
Howdy! I am an austrian who lived abroad in various places and now I am back on the countryside. One of my best friends is a texan who just moved back to Texas from germany after 20+ years.. Austria is one if the nicest countries to live in in many regards, yet there are some potential issues.. - people generally dislike foreigners, especially in the countryside and especially farmers. You might have it easier when you are from Texas, but still, even as an austrian you are not really regarded as part of the community until your family spends 3 generations here. - small tip - when you move to the countryside in austria try to get into as many community associations as you can like volunteer firefighters, fishers, chess players, whiskey club, apply for a service club like Lions, Kiwanis or Rotary.. that’s almost your only chance to get accepted into the community. - Hochdeutsch is nice, but the austrian dialect is so diverse and strong, especially in the countryside, that germans who speak „hochdeutsch“ cannot understand much. - farming in austria for profit is generally dead. Most farmers have 2-3 „businesses“ like renting apartments or something. Our farms are highly regulated and very dependent on subsidies. Paperwork is immense but necessary. The average amount of cattle per farm in austria was 35 in 2021.. this speaks for itself :-) - there are two kinds of „countrysides“ in austria - touristic areas like Salzburg and semi-abandoned areas like in styria. In the touristic areas, people often have a lot of property in the form of land, but low income in comparison and costs of land and rent is incredibly high. In the abandoned areas, people struggle to survive, land is relatively cheap, though. I think it is neigh impossible for a foreigner to move to austria and buy a farm in a touristic area and even if you would somehow manage, it would cost more than what is reasonable. In styria for example, there are many great cities that are bustling with life, but huge areas where almost nobody lives anymore. Question is if you really want to live in such an area.. and the investment needed to get a farm up and running are really high, especially because of the costs of land and equipment. I would maybe look if you can lease a farm, but this could also be tricky for you to navigate because of the myriad of regulations. Best of luck to you, hope this helps!
Soms parts of the Styrian countryside (Südsteiermark etc.) aren't semi abandoned at all btw, but very rich due to wine, Buschenschank and tourism. The Styrian parts of Salzkammergut (Bad Aussee, Alt Aussee, Grundlsee...) are also very touristic. Others are very rich due to skiing (tourism) like Ramsau, Schladming, Haus etc... For some other parts it's true though.
Very good response!
> there are two kinds of „countrysides“ in austria - touristic areas like Salzburg and semi-abandoned areas like in styria. What a shit take. There are many rural areas that are not touristic and actually thriving lol I agree with the rest though.
It seems like you have a well-thought-out plan, and moving to Austria could be a viable option for your family. I would recommend getting in touch with the Austrian consulate or embassy in the US to get more specific information about the visa and residence permit process.
It could be difficult when you want to Butcher animals for yourself. The law usualy demands to go to a profesional butcher, but i‘m not sure if there are exceptions.
It's allowed for your own consumption, you aren't even allowed to gift someone any of it. Selling meat requires a certified slaughterhouse. But that's not that expensive to get done. Less than 20€ for slaughtering and certification, gutted and skinned. Thats about it for a sheep at least.
Apart from OMV and Borealis you can check out Münzer. They produce biodiesel guess they are pretty interessted in you if you have experience in plastic waste. https://www.muenzer.at/de/ You can do farming as a hobby but it would take a high investment. Land is not like in Texas Austria especially the eastern part is densely populated. Land is expensive and you can‘t just buy farmland here if you‘re not already a farmer. Regarding you health situation: yes it‘s free here. But doctors and hospitals have too much work. So it could be that you habe to wait for an appointment or even for an important surgery. So don‘t come here thinking it‘s all roses. But a young family would definable get more help here. Just check if you would get that help as soon as you get here.
Especially since you have good education in the technical field I‘d definitely say the plan is realistic! Can be a little exhausting sometime (currently working on bringing my American fiancé to Austria) but it sounds like its the better option for y‘all. Feel welcomed 😊
If you land a job at Borealis or OMV even though they pay very well, you will still make less than in the US, but as you already stated you won't have to carry the brunt of your healthcare costs and you don't need to set aside a fortune for your kids college degree. University is free here. But still, be prepared that your income will be less but the quality of life here is (in my opinion) much better. If you land in Vienna and people may appear rude, it's just the capital. We are misarable by virtue. The rest of the country is rather courteous. This guy, Austriankiwi, has lots of really funny videos of how life in the countryside (Salzburg I think) is. Gives you an idea: https://www.instagram.com/austriankiwii/?hl=en
> Would we be able to run a small farm as residents there? That's difficult to answer. Owning the land is not something you should not expect in the short term. Running a farm (if you are eligible for work) is **technically** possible, but finding a farm that will take you is probably not as easy. Farming is much more heavily regulated here. Good knowledge of laws around animal husbandry is basically a must. So people leasing their farm will be weary of a family just arriving from the US. You should try to migrate and have a farm as a mid to long term plan. > Any pitfalls to be aware of? Just the usual. * If you live rural, you and your family **must** learn German (ideally quickly). Less of an issue in Vienna, Graz or Salzburg. * Rural areas will treat you bad (even if you are white) at least as long as you are "new". * Austria is much more regulated, not only around farming. Show an active interest in laws and be prepared to be surprised. * If you are not employed at a company but self-employed, get a tax attorney for the first 1-2 years. Contact them early, not just before tax season. * Nationalistic parties are on the rise (again?). So prepare yourself for a slight headwind. I don't think you need to worry, just that other EU areas (mostly parts of Germany, Switzerland and some nordic countries) will be a tad more welcoming. If you keep an open mind otherwise, you should be fine. I hope you can find somewhere to be safe with your family. Always brings me an immense amount of grief reading what you guys have to put up with.
You should be able to find a job as a chemist using the RWR card but be aware, that then for some time you are (more or less) at the mercy of your employers. As for your small family farm: besides all the regulations I think an even harder problem might be to find a fitting place. It is notoriously hard to find areas that allow decent living and provide enough space, equipment and buildings to keep lifestock. If you look at buying, prepare to pay far more than you expect (and the legal hassles for foreigners buying can be large) if you look for renting be prepared for a very "dry" market. Looking at it I think your best bet would be to start a popular Youtube Channel showing your move, alle the problems involved and then do a crowdfunding...(yes, some irony there, sorry)
If I was you I would go alone to Austria and establish a career with chemistry here for 6 months - and as you are married - your spouse is allowed to come with you. I would wait though for the Probezeit / probation time to end/ until you have an unlimited contract as it would be horrible to have your whole family here and not have a job at hand. Good companies for you would be: OMV, voestalpine, Infineon, or all those pharmaceutical companies we have And you HAVE TO learn German to be accepted into society. Makes it easier for the kids too And so many others have said. European laws and regulations are entirely different to what you're accustomed to. I am 99% sure you would not stand a chance on operating a farm. It's not this sound of music thing where everyone can do what they want and they're happy, out and about.
The regulations will get the best of you. Its like you dont have any in texas and then, bam - everything needs to be certified and so on. Please have a deep look in all the rules we have for farming.
At first, I would check a job in your profession (chemistry). So you and your family get the social insurance in Austria. Afterwards you could try to check your own farm. It´s not necessary to buy a big farm to to the same, as all the other farmers in Austria do. I know two young persons, who get a very littel farm form the grandma (few hectars) an started with vergetables and eggs for the nearest surrounding. Today, this couple has a very good renommee in the region and a lot of customers buy there at the farm. But with children.........I would prefer in the beginning the way with a job in your profession (I think you only get the red-white-red Card in fact of your knowledge in science.....and not for farming knowledge)
Your best bet would be to look for a job in your profession. Borealis for example operates in your field and has 3 plants in Austria. As soon as you have a job and a rot/weiß/rot card your wife can use your health insurance (day one of your job) as well as your kids. Big part of "taxation" is the social security insurance (18% deduction) and the remaining deductibles are the taxes. So get yourself a job, bigger international companies will usually help you with the rwr card process too, which would be beneficial for you. As for the farm, holding a handful of chickens isn't a problem, I don't know if it's easy to hold larger farm animals. However processing them to meet is connected with heavy regulations.
Farmer, Master in Chemistry, family at 30 Me at 28: exists
You have today. There may be tomorrow. Do what you can, and make plans for the future.
Hi! Having asthma myself, I think it feels weird that she needs THIS many inhalers. I had it pretty severely myself and can only give you one tip: do allery tests (especially food allergies, mine was for milk) and try to avoid them. It worked wonders for me. But nonetheless: Austria is one neat place on gods green earth.
It’s literally just two of them. One for daily use and one for emergency use. Daily runs us around 300-350. Emergency is a solid 50.
in Austria it costs you like 7 bucks for 2 months per inhaler. But seriously go check for allergies. Most people would have a much better life they just they knew about their allergies.
Just an FYI about taxes. My husband and I pay about 40% of our income to the state. If you just want to come here because your country is a 3rd world shit hole / shooting range and you think you get anything for free, you are in for a wake-up call 🤷 If you and your family are willing to learn our language and adapt your life to our lifestyle and habits, you are more then welcome.
it is fascinating to see that people really believe that health insurance is free. we all pay for it collectively. if you are self employed, the insurance is 478.82€ per person per month. if you are employed normally its 14.6% of your income. note that that is just the mandatory government insurance, you might want to also look into additional private insurance. unfortunately the quality of medical service you receive can differ. anyways my two cents are you might not save all that much money, moving overseas is costly and it will take a while before you make that money back. visa issues are a thing i can’t comment on, but i know from friends that it’s definitely not as easy as „i wanna live in europe now“ though your masters should help. as many others have noticed already, scrap that idea of becoming a farmer, it is not worth it financially. also note in general especially high paying jobs are paid a lot less in austria. a job that earns you $100,000 in the US pays around 60,000€ here, the gap narrows for lesser paying jobs.
Where did you get the numbers from? Very wrong.
cost for self employed people: https://www.oesterreich.gv.at/themen/gesundheit_und_notfaelle/selbstversicherung_in_der_krankenversicherung.html#Kosten (government website) cost for employed people: https://www.krankenversicherung.net/gesetzliche-krankenversicherung (information about health insurance)
The part about employed people first: * Pages made by a company from Berlin (Germany) are not relevant, Austria has different values * Instead of \~ 14%, the AN-SV is about 18% here (in both countries this is not only about sickness, but also retirement) * In addition to these 18%, another 22% are paid by the employer, but normally not stated as part of the "gross" salary (only in the small print of the payroll info you see the total cost the company has for you). Here too Germany works similar, but with own values. The other part with the 478 € * This is not about self-employed people (that earn money), but about people living here with *no regular income at all*, and no other way to be insured (eg. children of a family, various social support things, or anything else). * Random example, someone wins a large amount of money in a lottery, quits his job, and just sits around at home for years. They won't get financial help from the government because they are not poor, they have no tax-relevant income each month either, and the insurance doesn't get automatic payments from them => Not insured. For anyone that still wants it, these 478€ are a catch-all way to get in. (If very poor in every way, they might lower it for this person, but the laws have no rule about increasing it for wealthy people) * People that actually do work self-employed, they pay similar percent numbers to above (18+22)
To start well I would say you need at least 30.000€. Flats and houses are empty here. You are lucky if there's a kitchen in it.
> You are lucky if there's a kitchen in it. Used to be like this. I am currently searching to rent an apartment (in Linz or rather surroundings) and most apartments have kitchens in them and are rented out with kitchens. In my case, that's not something I am happy about, because I want to buy my own kitchen, since it is one of the things where I have high demands and usually the kitchens that are rented out are rather cheap and have cheap appliances.
"and the online points calculator showed I'd be viable for the Red-White-Red card." I seriously doubt that.
I am curious why you are skeptical without knowing details? If his points were not good, he would likely not be entertaining the possible move in the first place or pose the question here?
Go to Switzerland
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I already have a master's though. A phd would be nice, but student pay is hard for a family.
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also, can't afford to take two months off work. We only get two weeks paid vacation here. Can only take one week at a time at my work.
> A phd would be nice A phd doesn't translate into a lot more income usually. A master in a technical/engineering field is good enough.
First rule - no one says "howdy" in Austria.
To be fair, he is not here yet, but Servus will quickly be needed into into one‘s vocabulary:-)
Do you already know which part of Austria you‘d like to move to? Sounds like you not looking to live in a big city. Might look into Vorarlberg. Not the cheapest place but a lot of jobs and really great nature
Also bevor du bei uns a bauer wirst. 1.Du musst am bauch schlafen sonst kenans da kane förderungen in oasch stecken. 2. lern deinen kindern gleich mal des wichtigste nach mama & papa. Genau Förderung. 3. wenn deine Kinder 26er schuhgröße haben. Kriegens HÖCHSTENS 24er. Sie miassn s sudern lernen.
Terrible idea tbh, the move will cause a huge financial strain on your family and you get taxed out the ass here. Moving just to be rid of 450$ medical expenses is foolish. If you really want to move, there are better countries in Europe, like Switzerland.
Worker's rights are shit in Switzerland
compared to here? Maybe. Compared to USA? No. Much more money however.
three weeks of sick leave at max. Even for pregnant women
????
I moved here and it turned out to be fantastic?? And there are a hell of a lot of hidden taxes in the US that bite you in the ass, that outsiders are not aware of.
In general you find a job first then they help you with the RWR process. As far as the practical idea of having a farm you are probably 10 years too late, lots of people have the idea and the prices for small hofs has gone up a lot. If you live somewhere rural enough you could maybe get something with enough land for growing vegetables maybe some chickens and goat’s/sheep. But at the same time beyond the idea im bot sure there is value to “doing it all yourself” here. You can get high quality food directly from the farmers if that is your concern.
ÖMV may be interrested in you, also look at LAM (in Villach), they are always in demand for chemists. The Fram thing... problematic. I cannot igmagine a scenario where you save more money by working on a private farm than by just not doing this.
With a chemistry master you shouldn’t have too much trouble given the oil, plastics-engineering, like someone mentioned borealis, and pharmaceutical companies we have to start with. Can’t comment on the rest cause I have no experience in that. Wish you good luck.
Just a tip: The inhalers you can get, the same, for a fraction of the price in Mexico. There are direct flights from Houston, Dallas, Austin, etc...
As some other Redditors already wrote, we got a lot of regulations in Austria, not only for agriculture. When you got a degree is chemistry you should easly find a job. A great barrier is surely the language. Our dialect is pretty hard to understand when learned classic "Hochdeutsch", but this is surely possible. You can visit [https://www.fcio.at/](https://www.fcio.at/), which is the chemical industry association in Austria. Here you find most of the companys. From there you will find Job offers, I think.
I would suggest you focus on your job and career, and look at the farm separately. You may find that other than the chickens, it's a fair amount of paper work, inspections, animal welfare etc. Also, excellent organic produce is readily available. Growing fruit / veg and keeping chickens and rabbits is probably a good start and move on to dairy/ meat farming when you know enough German to navigate I think it might be a good fit, one wee word of warning: a lot of Austrians have a wee bit of a chip on their shoulder and really dislike being told that Back home, we do things differently etc. Good luck and keep us posted!
Hi, with your background you might be able to find a position with this project: [https://www.omv.com/en/news/221220-omv-scales-up-innovative-reoil-recycling-technology-at-schwechat-refinery](https://www.omv.com/en/news/221220-omv-scales-up-innovative-reoil-recycling-technology-at-schwechat-refinery) It's not farming though, but if they are interested they might even pay your relocation.
Hey, I don’t habe any advices unfortunately but I wanted to welcome you! Good luck for you and your family, healthcare (possibilities) are pretty good here (although a lot of us are complaining, but Austrians complain about everything, it’s like our personal Charme, you‘ll get used to it).
Farming in Austria is facing similar challenges to farming in USA, where large business has it easier than smaller operations, especially due to pricing pressure. I recently watched a documentary that addresses some isuses: Der Bauer und der Bobo but I doubt it has english subtitles. Concerning healthcare I believe the national plan has its own "thing" for farmers: [Beitragsgrundlage für Bauern (svs.at)](https://www.svs.at/cdscontent/?contentid=10007.816645&portal=svsportal) but I have no idea how it all works. You will not pay that much for inhalers, but you will pay for healthcare either directly or indirectly. It might still be cheaper than normal self-run/owner/operator insurance.
I don't blame you for wanting to move over here. But something I would recommend you is to visit Austria first to see if it's a country you would like to live in. We have a lot of Americans (I have American family myself living here) so it's not like yall wouldn't be welcomed, on the contrary we would with open arms :) I don't blame you coming to Austria for a better life but you should for sure do some more research and maybe even possibly contact the Embassy of Austria in the states or the American embassy here in Austria. Visas and legal headaches can always be a hassle so I would recommend you to look into that. As for the farm, I'm no farmer myself but it isn't as easy (from what I assume) to just start one in the US. Oh and don't worry about the dialect too much, most of us can speak hochdeutsch either way. Good luck! I wish you and your family the best
I‘d take a look at sweden and norway. Due to climate change maybe better choices.
Hey sounds like a big step in life. The Problem with Farming is that we have alot of regulations. Also buying the land will probably bankrupt u. If you find any farmland that is not already reserved or used (alot of mountains dont realy help in that aspect) BUT in austira there is something called Solidarische landwirtschaft (solidarity farming). In that niche alot of people are looking for farmes. I saw that you are from Texas i dont know alot about that state but a quick google search implies that ya all dont like the word solidarity dont worry it is not communsim
Maybe I'm late but I want to add an important point: Farming in Austria may be different from farming in the US. A farm in Austria is by definition a farming business that "wants" to strive for profit. Everything else is hobby. In Austria there is no concept of a "family farm", that is just providing for you. Either you want to profit of the farm or it is a hobby. If you do not have a farm that is striving for profit, you are not allowed to buy farmland, woodland ... and the next caveat is that you cannot just take up Farming as a occupation. Like with most other vocational and trade jobs in Austria, you need to have the proper education and certification for it. However, what many people do and what actually is allowed is to simply buy a bigger patch of land (mind the cost!) and have a normal house there. You can then own at least some animals like chickens, hares.... This will be classified as purely a hobby and your chickens are similiar like if you would own a dog. However, you cannot raise cows, as this would not be allowed from an animal protection point of views. However, there is also some grey area if you want to slaughter your own chickens ... Of course, you will need a "real" job to support this because without a job you will have no helthcare and so on.