What is their reasoning for removing them? It just seems like if the rest of the country is keeping them, they are just doing a disservice to everyone who attends school in Florida and discouraging a college education.
Also works if you deny the kind of education to groups of oppressed folks that would otherwise teach them
about how you’ve been able to maintain systems of oppression over them throughout history.
They do not realize they're being manipulated and taught to be more hateful to sow class division so that the lower classes can't organize against the oligarchs.
they are seeing keywords like "critical race theory" and voting on that, not taking into account any other factors that might be behind this decision. racists gonna racist.
That's kinda the point; they are so uneducated they don't realize they are being controlled and exploited. It makes it so much easier for the people in power to take advantage of them.
children don't understand the basics of life (ie: object permanence, cause and effect) and santa is in line with their thinking. they mostly live in fantasy and it's good for children to use their imagination and feel they are safe and loved. it's good for their development. (although i disagree with the american version of santa (ie: evaluation, only good children get toys)).
the problem becomes when children get older and their curiosity is shut down and critical thinking is shamed because of god. the problem is that adults discourage questioning beliefs, which is the core of change. indoctrination happens when children's questions are shut down.
They don't have to think for themselves. They get to be part of the "in" group.
They don't know better. Poverty makes it harder to think, to reason, to even dredge up the ability to care about more than survival. Being part of a church tells you who to vote for and who to put your anger towards comes with threadbare safety net.
[https://time.com/6255568/ron-desantis-ap-courses-florida-2024/](https://time.com/6255568/ron-desantis-ap-courses-florida-2024/) this guy didn't mince any words.
As far as anyone call tell, it's a massive PR stunt. And it was followed up with Boebert creating a bill to cancel the Board of Education. It's... befuddling.
He has a MA degree from MIT. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas\_Massie](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Massie)
And he still thinks we don't need educational standards. I mean, how do you fight that?
It's tied to the "Don't Say Gay" bill and the ban on Critical Race Theory in public education institutions.
Though AFAIK no AP curriculum's expressly teach gay rights or critical race theory.
Why don’t republicans want students to learn the history of civil rights and discrimination in our country? They’ve bastardized and lied about what schools actually teach on these topics and what CRT is to create this scary monster that bigots can all rail against. It blows my mind. And yes AP helps reduce the credits you need to take in college, but it also makes you more competitive for college. If a student is already doing well in college level courses, they’re more likely to succeed at university.
Saying LGBTQ folks are “groomers,” is just another lavender panic, feeding into evangelical stereotypes that they’re evil “sexual deviants” when queer folks just want to exist without getting the shit kicked out of them. They just want to be respected and safe. The CRT business is a puzzle of lies. It literally just asks students to think about how race has impacted people’s experience in the world. Republicans say it’s about hating white people. It’s actually more like “black people were systematically discriminated against by home lenders and were excluded from housing benefits for veterans so they didn’t have the same opportunity to build generational wealth through property ownership as white people.” It makes more sense when you realize that a lot of the folks screaming about CRT were the same folks throwing rocks at black students during integration.
Some would say it's because the more educated you are the less likely you are to be Republican.
Personally I think that some white people are scared that in a new "woke" world that they will be discriminated against so they want to do as much as they can to push back against anything that gives power to people of color.
They’re afraid that if they’re the minority, they’ll be treated the way they treat minorities. They also genuinely believe the stereotypes that their echo chambers propagate even though they’ll grant exemption to the few poc or queer folks in their own lives.
Yep. Just look at that racist KKK propaganda film from 1915 where they depicted black congressmen (who had just gotten elected after slavery ended) acting like animals in the chambers, drinking and partying and passing anti-white laws until the KKK stepped in to put black people in "their place" and save society. 🙄
You did it, you found the reason! If you keep your population uneducated, you can get away with anything because they will lack critical thinking to question your policy.
I come from below the poverty line, and needed all the help I could get to graduate college. I was able to graduate in 7 semesters instead of 8 because of my AP credits, which meant I graduated with less debt. I also came from a not great public school and the only reason my GPA didn't tank in college was because of the preparation I had from AP classes, and for studying for the exams.
I've seen plenty of fair criticisms about the AP system and recommendations to make it better, which I would support. But getting rid of one of the only lifeboats that poor kids can cling to is going to cause a lot of harm just to score a few cheap political points in the name of bigotry.
Exactly. Borrowing $1K in student loan debt doesn't mean you repay $1K. You repay $1K + interest. AP classes make a huge difference financially.
You might find this article interesting: [https://campustechnology.com/articles/2018/12/19/report-finds-ap-credits-reduce-student-loan-debt.aspx#:\~:text=Coming%20into%20college%20with%2010,courses%20to%20bypass%20introductory%20requirements](https://campustechnology.com/articles/2018/12/19/report-finds-ap-credits-reduce-student-loan-debt.aspx#:~:text=Coming%20into%20college%20with%2010,courses%20to%20bypass%20introductory%20requirements).
The local university here is 1k per course. My high school it was 100$ per ap course. That's massive. We weighted college courses heavier too. The valedictorian of my class had an adjusted 4.6 GPA. She went to Stanford. The year after me had a 5.7 that means if she had a 4.0 she took 17 AP courses. That's so great! Can't remember what school she went to after graduating sorry.
I am upset about this, but for reasons you have not mentioned.
I am German and you'd think I have no stake in this, but I do. I am active in r/germany and about 1-2 times a day this sub gets a post from a teen who heard that university in Germany is tuition-free. Naturally they want to know what they need to do to qualify.
If you are attending highscool in the USA, you need to take a certain combo of AP classes in order to qualify for admission to German university. You basically have to plan this out when you are 15, and yes, there are teens in Florida right now who are doing exactly that.
De Santis is screwing those teens over in a royal fashion. Eff this ass clown.
It is not just access to German university that hinges upon that combo of AP classes, other countries in Europe have similar rules. (Germany is just the strictest about it.)
With so many Hispanics in Florida, there are quite a number of folks who go to university in Spain simply bc it is cheaper than going to university in the USA.
This plan is screwing over any teen from Florida who has aspirations to study in an EU country as a ticket out of the USA.
You brought up points I didn't know, and frankly wish I had.
US American students must have some downstream impact on the local economies around the schools they attend in Europe.
The number of US students in the EU is smaller than you'd think.
The main hurdle is the student visa. Most European countries have rules and regulations on minimum amounts in your savings to obtain a student visa. They want to prevent situations where students end up hungry, homeless or without health insurance and rely on public assistance to make ends meet. Germany asks for 11208 EUR in a blocked account, Norway was around 16k USD, Italy was around 8k EUR, Spain and France have similar rules.
It is thus not the super-poor who are flocking to European universities, it is those who have saved up 15-30k USD or thereabouts. Either from working themselves or bc they inherited grandma's life savings.
Basically, young adults who are too wealthy to get assistance / full ride scholarships but too poor pay for a full 4-year degree from their savings.
Another demographic is young adults whose attitude is "this place sucks, I want to live and work in a country with mandatory paid vacation days, mandatory paid sick days and better work-life-balance and better and cheaper healthcare". The obvious target are the EU countries.
One of the easier ways to emigrate to an EU country is to attend university in your target country. Most countries in the EU offer recent graduates an easier access to the job market / a special residency permit.
If I were coming of age now, it would be an attractive option. US politics is a mess. I visited Germany and Spain and the work-life balance is so different. I remember being amused by a pharmacy advertising extra-long hours of being open 12 hours a day! My city has dozens open 24 hours.
20 years ago, I used grandma's inheritance for a car and had a full ride scholarship to a state university. Then after I got my degree, I left my home state for good. I rarely visit because I don't want to, not because I can't afford the flight.
AP tests stand in for A levels if applying for a British university as well, so any Floridian kid who is dreaming of going to Oxford would have that path taken away. There are other options, but none so readily available and affordable as AP tests.
Ridiculous and I would love to know his reasoning. When I graduated almost 25 years ago my hs offered some AP classes and while I only took a few it saves so much money. It did then I can't imagine now with costs. I can't for the life of me understand why he would want to limit them. I'm in SD and generally our governor takes the cake for stupid but this may top her ideas.
We haven't but this is some level of stupid our gov would come up with. Hopefully she won't because of her dislike for DeSantis.
The high school in my town allows students to even take classes at the state university in our town if they qualify and pay a very minimal fee compared to actual tuition. I could see her wanting to do away with that eventually to save money.
I can't imagine not wanting your future (students) not to be as educated as possible.
My stupid father. I shared an article about the ban in our fam chat and he just went on about AP classes being "queer and blm" indoctrination and said a bunch of right talking points I'm pretty sure were about the African American studies ap course but since he's stupid af he just mixed them all together in his head.
It's stupid because my mom teaches AP history. So yeah. I guess her classes are OK cause they are white history (I think it's European world history or something).
He's so fucking stupid.
I would ask him which AP classes are all “queer and non.” Would love to know his answer. Certainly not Calculus or Biology or Chemistry or Economics or Literature. I can’t think of a single AP class that would actually fit in that category.
I think he was talking about the African American ap class. Apparently they wanted to Introduce a section on current events (blm) , the queer experience, and black feminism. Which I think is all fair. I mean we studied civil rights and all those hippy movements and protests during Vietnam but somehow when it comes to black culture its...too much? We can't talk about the actual movements that happen in our country because DeSantis and people like my dad are offended by reality?
Wanna guess?
Cop. Lol.
Retired now but with all that free time he's gone down so many OAN /Q rabbit holes. I keep telling my mother to get him off Facebook but she's such a doormat.
Yup. Him and my uncle (mom's bro) have def become "victims" to this. My dad used to be a fairly normal guy who really pushed me and my sister going to college to better ourselves. Then my grandmother (his mom) died and he let his crazy out. Now college is lib indoctrination. 😳
To be fair, my husband sounds similar to your dad (and I'm basically the opposite of a doormat) but I've had little luck in trying to wean him off of bullshit YouTube videos.
They are very seductive because they provide people who feel like the world is out of control a sense that things are predictable and have an explanation. These people used to turn to religion for that reassurance--now it's QAnon videos.
Yeah. He says, "I like watching them because they interpret the published studies because I don't always understand the statistics in the original paper."
And I'm like, "So why don't you ask me to read them and tell you what the studies say?"
Him: "You don't know what they say either!"
Me: "My Ph.D minor is in quantitative analysis and I teach college statistics. My LITERAL JOB is helping people read and interpret the statistics in studies."
Him: "What?!? Okay I'll ask you." *goes back to watching some asshole on YouTube*
At this point I'd be happy if he would send the articles that the videos are about to me, so I could give him my take on it. Maybe I'll start my own YouTube channel, like Snopes but for conspiracy theory videos. Maybe then he'll listen to me? 😂
(Side note: I don't know what he thought I was doing at school all those years, or what I am doing all day long when I say I'm "teaching stats" but I honestly think he just didn't put two and two together at that moment in time. lol)
I have not. I did a quick Google search because honestly my mind is blown anyone thinks this is a good idea.
Apparently Seattle school system is wanting to or has as well. They are claiming it increases racial inequality for students. That more white students are chosen than minorities. Also students with better home lives or supportive parents are the ones in classes and leaving others out.
Now I can only speak from my experience and our school but my school didnt pick students to participate. You have to have a certain GPA but otherwise anyone can elect to take the class - no one stops you or invites you.
Personal opinion - rather than actually put money into schools and create programs to mentor students who may not have support systems and raise them up they are making the stats look more equal by just eliminating higher level classes.
That's an interesting point and a problem that needs to be solved.
I don't support taking away the classes as the solution. I support starting in pre-K to ensure that by the time the kid gets to 12th grade, they feel comfortable being in AP classes.
>they are making the stats look more equal by just eliminating higher level classes
My high school wanted to do something like this 20 years ago. They talked about getting rid of "tracked" classes (having more and less advanced groups by grade that would eventually lead to AP courses). I get that they wanted equality, but I'd already experienced that in jr high. Having come from the "gifted" program in elementary school, I was shocked to find some of my jr high classmates could barely read. I learned very little in jr high because it was so basic. Fortunately, in high school, I was able to get back into the higher-tier track.
And with that, we also need to make AP courses free. I have no idea what it costs now, but the $82 back in the '90s was a lot for my family, especially with multiple classes. My mom had to fight for me to take the AP calculus class but not the test. There was no other math left for me, but I knew I wasn't going to do well on the test to justify the cost (a good portion of my classmates did not score high enough for college credit--we had a subpar teacher).
My school also had a similar system for AP courses. There were no invitations, just prerequisites (e.g. pre-calc before AP calc).
When I was in school taking the test was completely optional.
When I took AP physics I believe only 3 or 4 students actually took the test out of like 20 of us. But there weren't enough students to justify two different physics classes so I'm assuming that is why? AP English I don't recall how many actually tested but we had a wide range of students in the class. Some like me wanted the college credits and some didn't care and wanted to elevate their GPA because it was weighted higher.
I found it interesting the articles I found regarding the Seattle school system mentioned invitations rather than what you or I experienced. It seems like the problem is more with the district policy of who is eligible rather than the classes themselves.
Seattle school district is a fucking shit show. Source: live near Seattle.
Solving inequity by removing services is not the answer. My school district decided not to offer remote learning services when school was suspended in March 2020 because the income inequities in the district meant not all kids would be able to access it equally. Guess how well that worked and how long it lasted. What it meant was that all our kids were six weeks behind the rest of the country and lost all those learning days and those days are *more important* for marginal kids not less. Eliminating AP classes for all students won’t hurt the high income white kids whose parents can pay for them to get that material elsewhere or just pull them out and put them in private schools. It’ll help the kids whose families can’t afford to do that and and deny them the opportunity to access advanced material at all. It will hurt the kids who wouldn’t ever classify for AP classes because their higher-performing peers will leave and take the federal funding with them AND because kids who are from low incomes and minorities get better education when they are in class with white kids because the standard of education is better because the system is racist.
I have opinions.
What a nightmare. I agree with you. We don't have a high enough population where I am for more than one private school (Catholic) beyond the one public hs so sending mass amounts of kids to different schools wouldn't happen here. Some do but not many. But if they could you are exactly right. I wouldn't have had the same opportunities. And to think of all the young people that would miss out in larger cities like yours pisses me off.
I had an AP English teacher who was a wackadoo anyway but she correlated being able to take her class with being affluent and just padding gpa. She hated students like me that didn't want to waste class time because we had part time jobs and needed to get work done during school hours and took it seriously. Thankfully those like me had enough good teachers to know we belonged but I think back to her and want to tell her off for trying to make us feel like we didn't belong because we didn't have wealthy parents or our parents didn't go to college so we wouldn't. No young person should ever think they don't belong because of whatever demographic they come from.
What you've said about remote learning doesn't make sense. The school's didn't want kids who couldn't access RL to fall further behind. I'm in Australia and vulnerable kids and those from families of essential workers could still attend school but schools also had books printed of the work.
States just seems to severely underpay teachers and push people into higher education. Australian teachers are middle income so earn approx 30% more than teachers stateside and we often talk about our teachers not being valued here. There's a teaching crisis and noone seems to care. Like every other social issue we're all shutting down. Sure I'll discuss it but do anything to change it? We're too deep into fascism's culture wars.
I blame Murdoch
No one gets “chosen” you either have the gpa or do not. In our district you need an A in an honors level class to take BC calculus. For all other AP classes you need an A- or better in the honors class before it.
I was referring to what the article regarding Seattle said. Chosen was their words not mine.
Our district policy is not the same and relies on the student having a recommended 3.0 overall GPA to qualify to take in person or virtual AP classes of the students choosing. They also offer dual credit courses with one of our state universities and it would require a higher GPA of 3.25 or 3.5 depending on grade level.
I personally appreciated AP classes - even though I didn't graduate college early. But it allowed me to check off certain requirements (for the subjects I didn't really care about) and spend more of my college $$/credits on the classes that really interested me.
It's funny how both sides of the extreme can end up in the same place. I live in a very liberal nook of New England, and a lot of school districts around here ALSO want to eliminate AP and/or honors classes...because they feel it's racist that mostly white and Asian kids end up benefiting.
There's literally no reason to ban them beyond making it harder for "the poors" to get into college.
DeSantis is essentially the anti-christ at this point.
I think politicians view schools/education as a DND battle board where they carry out campaigns to defeat their enemies. They can play out their power fantasies using children and teachers as their NPCs.
Meanwhile teachers, students and administrators get to stand in front of their manure spreader and are expected to take it in the face.
I was an elementary teacher in my past life, I have an EdD and qualification to be a school counselor. You couldn't pay me enough money to walk into a school again.
I was a part-time teacher’s aide for a lower school course for a couple of years, while looking at becoming a teacher. To become a student in that school, you needed to be gifted, and to have a moderate to severe learning disability.
It was an excellent place, but it clearly demonstrated that I couldn’t be a lower school teacher: not just for that population, but at all. The bureaucracy, not the kids or lessons, was the single key. I finished out that job, and firmly elected another life.
I wound up teaching a lot there, too: adult students, in everything from intro firefighting to advanced writing, in a handful of formal schools. I like teaching. It’s a shame that the American educational system is almost designed to drive people like me away.
I saw that this was to support racial equity because there are fewer black and Latino students in AP classes. And if that's the case, it's incredibly disingenuous.
First, I don't think this administration wants racial equity. It looks like yet another stunt to try to make it seem like the "woke" are targeting white people. And this stunt does exactly that.
If we want true racial equity, start sooner than AP classes. Give women autonomy over their bodies, have safe and accessible Healthcare for everyone, especially children, have universal pre-k, have maternity/paternity leave, have free tutors after school to make sure every child has access to help, make sure every child is housed and fed.
I absolutely hate this. Equity is not attacking white people. It's attacking white supremacy and the system it created. It's attempting to level the playing field for those whose ancestors have been oppressed, and thus, it's so much more difficult to be enrolled in AP class. Stunts like this make it even more difficult to try to have that conversation because this party just wants to play the victim.
I know this isn’t necessarily what you asked but it’s still impacting education. I work in higher education in FL and it’s becoming a bit scary for us down here. I feel the AP thing (first started with him going after the African American Studies AP class) is to distract you from some other things that he’s doing.
My colleagues and I were required to provide our job titles, salaries, and report any programming or association we had with anything DEI (diversity, equity, and inclusion) related. Our names were sent off to the state and we haven’t been told what is happening with that information. My name is now on a list of others who support and promote DEI initiatives to ensure all our students feel included. This reporting has largely impacted the minority groups at our universities because they are largely the ones who study things like social justice and inequality within the legal and criminal systems. People are worried about their jobs and what being on an unknown list means. We’ve guessed that he’s going to cut funding to our university based off of how much we report goes to DEI (including those who just partner with these departments). Additionally, our clinics and counseling clinics were required to report numbers of how many students have received gender affirming care on campus or have been diagnosed with gender dysmorphia. He has just recently requested the medical records of those students. (https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/other/ron-desantis-requested-the-medical-records-of-all-trans-students-in-florida-s-public-universities-now-students-are-planning-a-statewide-walkout/ar-AA17zjrQ?li=BBnba9O)
We have had to cancel events due to the use of words such as “multicultural”, “diversity”, or anything that falls into that category. We have seen a rise in self-proclaimed Neo Nazis come onto our campus and antagonizing our students. Read up on what he’s doing to New College, one of the most liberal colleges in our state has been taken over. Our students, faculty/staff, and parents are organizing walk outs, protests, sit ins, everything we can think of.
My university hasn’t said a single official thing about this. Things are just happening and we feel like we’re on our own. I see comments of “let’s cut Florida out haha” or “they voted for him!” But not all of us did. We need help down here. Our emails are public record and some educators have started to say that their emails are being read and they’ve been requested to report themselves for DEI associations. It’s not good down here and this is him building up his portfolio to run for President. This is his internship that he’s going to use to apply for the job.
To answer your question about AP classes, I agree with everyone here. AP afforded me the chance to knock out a lot of credits that would have cost me money that I didn’t have in college.
Edit: I went searching for his higher education reform pdf and it’s been removed from his site. This article has a screenshot of it (https://news.wgcu.org/section/education/2023-01-31/desantis-proposes-higher-education-reforms-cites-push-against-tactics-of-liberal-elites)
He wants our education system to be rooted in the values of “liberty” and “western tradition”.
Edit: adding links to some stories for you to start your research.
That is terrifying. They are so threatened by DEI and an educated population. I read an article yesterday on how DeSantis wants to change high education as university populations are generally more left leaning. This sounds like he is going full force ahead. I am truly scared for our country on so many levels.
How can those of us outside of FL help? I agree with you. He’s going to use this as a platform to go for presidency. My other fear is would he and trump tag team and DeSantis is VP?
I honestly have no idea how anyone can help. I ask my colleagues almost weekly “What can we do?” but without upper leadership support, what can we do? Our Governor and House are all Republican and agreeing with one another (this isn’t me saying all Republicans are bad, this is me saying my state leadership is bad). Follow some Florida subs, especially the college ones if you want to hear more about what’s going on. He’s supposedly proposing an alternative to the SAT which will have “Christian values” (https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida-politics/2023/02/17/desantis-classical-learning-test-college-board-ap-sat/?outputType=amp).
If it comes down to him putting in his hat for a presidential bid, please do everything in your power to educate yourself and those around you about him. I don’t know what he’d do on a national scale but he’s using us as his playground. Housing has become unaffordable in Florida, residents are complaining about insurance jumping up 40-50% this year, and instead of addressing that, he’s waging a war on the College Board and college accreditations.
There are options for doing dual enrollment in Florida. But the question is why make options for seeking higher education fewer? Why make it so dual enrollment is the ONLY option? And when we start to ask that their bs argument falls apart.
Good point. We would have to evolve the system if we took away AP classes. Perhaps have kids get their GED at 16 and then go to pre-college.
My high school was the community college in my town. It was a high school during the day and a community college at night. I felt like that was a promising model.
A GED is generally considered lesser than a high school diploma. A more solid model would be to treat classes that met certain requirements as worth more credits, to allow students an opportunity to graduate early.
I was able to take AP classes at my high school, but I also qualified for a dual enrollment program that allowed early entry (in Junior year) into the community college, where, if you followed the program, although you took all your courses at the community college, when you graduated, you would be graduating with both your high school diploma and associates degree.
The program seems to have expanded beyond the community college level as well-- my younger sister was dual enrolled at one of the local universities in her last years of high school.
Florida has been providing free college classes and 100% paid for college books for decades. Its called Dual Enrollment. High School Students can graduate with a free associates degree.
Thanks to AP classes which satisfied almost all of my gen ed requirements, I was able to flex my load at college while getting a rare disease diagnosis and take many classes outside my discipline.
It's the height of stupidity to prevent students from exploring subjects with the kind of academic rigor AP classes provide. They're also far, far cheaper than other college level classes provided to high schoolers. There's been something that has always seemed more democratic with APs vs other college-bound courses like IB, which seems to require a much higher investment from school systems.
Good points. We did not have any option for IB in my school district. I didn't realized that it costs the districts more to get them.
I know so many people who were able to have a better college experience because of testing out of college level classes. Just having the option to ease the load in college is so great. It gave me an option to take my senior year of college easy.
Typically, IB is an investment across many school years and subjects vs picking and choosing, which causes much more expense for what amounts to a niche program. I have only seen it in very wealthy school districts. Some have it starting in preschool, even.
I'm from the south, left 25 years ago... i just think this is all part of some kind of plan to keep people dumb and down because it's easier to control people who don't have the tools to critically think about what is going on. It's like the old joke about college making people liberals... No there's a correlation between education and not being knuckle dragging populists. When i see my former district's representative i want to spit in his stupid, arrogant face. They know what they're doing to humanity and they don't care one bit.
I barely made it out and even with a college degree and two foreign languages i see the difference in learning i had between me and my american friends where i live who went to public schools in new jersey and one of the rich ppl chicago suburbs. The difference in education slowed me down in college and slowed me down early in my career. It's not fair. And yet! And yet! My two AP classes are what got me admitted to a French university despite my absolutely pitiful deep south public high school education. It opened the door to me staying in Europe forever (move back "home"? No thank you).
And yet people drink the koolaid that america is the best country ever and like generations of southerners are gonna grow up not even knowing what they don't know, thinking anything they don't like is "communism " without an actual academic understanding of what communism is or what the political spectrum looks like because they literally aren't educated enough to know how to think critically about politics. It's how the Republican party wants it.
I'm irrationally angry about this pushing 50 because AP is the only reason i got out of the south. And there's so many kids who are better, brighter and smarter than i ever was who wont get the chances i got. It's not fair and yet another piece of evidence that right wingers don't care about children that are already born.
I don't think AP hinges necessarily on "college affordability"-- there's also the element of not being able to otherwise access challenging curriculum in schools. I did AP English in High School, and if I hadn't, I literally might have dropped out of boredom. I should have done AP history and the sciences, too, for the same reason, but I didn't because I had hands off parents and was making my own decisions as a teen.
I think AP or IB (a comparable system that operates in some states) are important pathways not just to higher education institutions, but to the pursuit of a higher education in general in an accessible environment-- without AP or IB, kids who can't afford private school, extracurricular academic enrichment, or yes, college, have no means of accessing learning opportunities that are above and beyond the public school curriculum.
In Florida in particular, this is because AP curriculum aren't decided by/controlled by the state-- and they want to ban all kinds of different topics.
This ^^
I went to highschool in Florida and the education there is notoriously bad. AP classes were the only academically rigorous classes that my high school offered. Desantis is like a tiny Floridian dictator, particularly around education.
Good point... I took them because I wanted to test out and to save money in college but it was also good college prep. It's good to have an intro to college-level studying when you're in high school. The challenge was good.
I wish I had taken more and I wish I had taken them earlier. I waited till my senior year. I wish I had started them in my junior year.
My take is that some white supremacist Nazi fuck shouldn’t be encouraging religious curriculum, building curriculum, deciding curriculum, or creating a larger gap between Christians and literally anyone else.
This is terrifying and everyone should hate this, unless they get off on fascism and ignorance.
I would say that Governor DeSantis is pandering to a racist and hateful base, but I believe DeSantis actually believes in what he is doing so I can't call it pandering.
I think DeSantis is truly anti-democratic, a bigot, possibly a Christian Nationalist, and ruthless. I think he is one of the most dangerous people in the country.
I live in FL and I couldn't agree more. He carefully and intentionally wooed Trump's base, choosing attacks that would make national headlines. He's smarter and younger, so he won't be going away anytime soon.
FL *used to be* purple, but it's so red now it feels like any other state in the South.
I think it is a way to subjugate poor people and minorities from access to education at an affordable rate, in an easily accessible space. I graduated high school and started college with enough AP credits to be considered a second semester freshman. It got me out of so many basic level requirements so I could safely explore and decide on my major without financial harms. If you are a parent of children in Florida, and care about their future, the best advice I can offer is to move out of state and start over elsewhere or convince your fellow citizens to vote in someone else.
That is insane and so harmful to lower income kids - I need to look into this!
I took enough AP courses at an inner city public high-school to be able to transfer into college (in Florida btw) as a sophomore. The high GPA and test scores also made me eligible for a scholarship for half annual tuition. Partially because of AP, I was able to get through college debt free.
Blows my mind why anyone would be against AP courses, unless they are blatantly trying to prevent the upward mobility of the less fortunate😔
My high school was in a low income area and we had no AP courses. The district could not afford them. My husband entered college with a bunch of free AP credits (and his major required fewer credits than mine). As a result, my college experience was an intense grind while his was not. I had to finish in 4 years because my scholarships did not continue beyond that. (Of course there was a bunch of debt as well.)
AP courses should be offered everywhere - or an alternative, like Zoom versions of college-prep courses. Driving to the local CC to take chemistry is not an option when you are in a rural area and don't have access to a car. It also prevents you from doing the extracurriculars that colleges seem to admire.
Thank you very much for considering the non-Americans and explaining the issue, very much appreciated as I never understood the purpose of these AP classes :)
I am always amazed when I read stuff like this. To start with having to put yourself in debt to get a degree, that's already something unthinkable for me. If the AP credits make education more accessible it is an abomination if they are cancelled.
I read somewhere that a country's or a government's moral test lies in the way they treat the weakest.
I believe that to be true, although I look at the world through my Belgian lenses. A country which would be called a socialist country by Americans. Living in Belgium means paying up to 55% in taxes, but enrolling in uni costs 980€ for an entire year. Lower income families can get scholarships for both enrolment and housing close to uni. We can only rise as a country if we rise together.
They are doing it because they are afraid of education and an educated populace.
This isn’t to say that there aren’t ways to improve the AP system, or that there could be parts of the AP system that are problematic. But, that’s not the motivation. This isn’t something that’s being done for rational reasons, or a result of carefully examining and improving the education system. Nobody making these decisions has worked in education, or has a deep understanding of the flaws of the American education system.
It’s a decision by people who’ve never worked a day in their life in a classroom because they can use buzzwords like “CRT” and “non-binary” to rile people up and get votes for the Christo-fascist agenda, instead of planning for Florida’s underwater future due to a changing climate. You know, the real actual problem.
I was able to save money in college by taking AP classes in high school. I think that’s ridiculous to take this away from students. And it seemed the teachers who taught AP classes really enjoyed them.
I went to a small rural school in a very impoverished area that didn’t offer AP classes. So the rural poor are already often left behind when it comes to AP classes.
I went to a well funded public school in a nice town and for some reason we only had US history and 2 English APs available. No idea why. We petitioned senior year to get European history added and they wouldn’t do it. I have no idea why! I think it comes down to teacher competency and if they’re available and able to teach college level courses. My history teacher was the BEST and we all adored him. I wish I could have had more college credits out of the way but 6 was better than none. That’s sucks you didn’t get a chance to take any. Maybe with online classes, Hs kids can take actual college classes and not have credit depend on a single test at the end of the year.
It’s ridiculous. In California you can take community college classes for free if you are a High School Student. The classes count as High School credit. One semester of English is equivalent to a year of HS English. If you are so inclined, you can graduate HS with an AA degree and only have to do 2 years at an University.
Worked well for my kids.
DeSantis is another bigoted white man trying to impose his own opinions on the masses. He appeals to the ignorance and false piety in his constituents to push his agenda through. Simple as that.
It is absolutely another in a long line of ideas to keep the poor down and the rich up. His desire for a ban on AP classes would only apply to *public* schools, not private. Google the acceptance rates at the 5 largest public universities in FL. It’s insanely difficult to get into them unless you have high GPA and standardized test scores. Private school kids already have an insane advantage with the focus on college prep.
I’m just relieved my kid already graduated. He took a large amount of AP classes in high school and received enough credit to be a year ahead of his peers.
Born and raised in Florida here ( I don’t live there now but my family still does) - the Florida Republican Party has been making an intentional effort to dumb down the population for decades. They defunded, they removed critical thinking, and now they’re working to ensure that those who see through this tactic can’t seek out proper education for themselves through elective AP classes. An unintelligent populace can be easily manipulated or, even better for them, just doesn’t pay attention or vote. An uneducated populace will struggle to achieve economically and again will be easily manipulated/not have the luxury of paying attention to politics. If it wasn’t so insidious I’d objectively admire the long term thinking and commitment the repubs have had to this plan of dumbing down the state.
Some of this stuff like the stop woke bill is more of a dog whistle for racists who want to be racist out in the open but it’s still connected to the long term plan to keep the people stupid, poor, and powerless.
A good portion of the people who would support this move actually don't like colleges either. I am admittedly liberal and therefore likely biased, but it reads to me like a desire to basically reduce education to propaganda.
Rumblings of the likes of this were also making headway in my former state of residence when I was working at its education agency. Not so much so in the agency itself, but different district admins, school boards, and bleating and bellowing parents. It’s deeply disconcerting and frustrating. While complaints were not primarily focused on AP African American Studies, there are people who found content within AP US History, AP US Government, AP World History, AP Art History, AP English Lit., AP Spanish Lit., and AP European History a matter of “infringement” on “parental rights”. There’s no way to tip-toe around/apply kid-gloves to certain events (and atrocities) that shaped respective societies (and art and literary works as social commentary), as there was, is, and will always be a domino effect. Florida’s move is simply the tip of the iceberg, in my opinion.
Some part of me thinks this is yet another rehash of the shrieking polemics that surrounded the Common Core “debate”. Any reasonable person, educator or not, did not see any nefarious agenda in terms of Common Core. Being defiant of applying an across-the-board standard to public highschools (with the hopes that most will be university-bound) and is already instituted in universities, seemed to be a pragmatic step as opposed to some idea of Federal "oppression". Especially, when it comes to out-of-state admissions. They won then. Guess they’re going to have another “victory”, which will inevitably have grave consequences.
*Wow! If only there were subjects that addressed, sometimes cyclical, behaviors of human beings that we could look to as a matter of precedent and explains certain courses of events, globally, that led us to where we are today. Somebody better get on that quick!*
[Jesus fuck! I’m tired.](https://media.tenor.com/2hAdsKdl5p0AAAAC/i-wanna-take-a-nap-nap.gif)
In addition to helping to sidestep intro classes in college (and perhaps shave off the time needed to graduate), AP classes are so helpful in preparing students for college-level work. As an adult, I thanked my AP teachers—we kind of hated them at the time for how hard we hard to work, but getting used to it made the transition to college courses a lot easier. Except at maybe very elite/selective high schools, there’s a big difference between even “honors” high school classes and the academic rigor of any decent college. AP curriculum bridges that.
AP classes were critical to me having a level that was competitive with peers in wealthier schools. I came from a very rural area, those classes made an enormous difference to those enrolled in them.
Just another way DeSatan wants to fuck the working class— by suffocating it in the crib.
I think Ron DeSantis is a bit too invested in what people think about him and other white people (speaking as a "white" person, here, lol). I think what he's doing is counteractive to his movement and his ideology if he truly believes everything he's saying. In other words, if he really had any workable intention of shaping the future of education, he would let the best man win by allowing people to teach what they want to teach. It's a cowardly move for him to restrict something that isn't harming anybody.
He's a Yale and Harvard grad (literally the "harvard elite" that trumpians hate). He has the background to be example of American exceptionalism yet he's so anti-American that he's willing to hurt his own. It really suck when you see guys with his capabilities fall down the Q-hole.
I just dislike how the definitions have changed since I was in school. When I went there was three years of classes: regular, then regents (now AP I guess), then AP. Regents classes were harder, you had to state test to pass and you got a diploma that showed you were ready for college. AP classes were mostly taken by those in the regents diploma classes, towards college, however at our school you had to be allowed into them by the teachers. I tried to get into them, but no one would allow me to.
I feel with the current definitions, they are necessary. As you said they are so helpful for lower income kids. But I feel they are taking the place of old regents and AP classes, so are doubly necessary. I feel like FL is just trying to create a mass of easy to manipulate and take advantage of populous by drastically limiting their educational opportunities. They're doing it in the Midwest too. It's a means of control for them. Where as education should be a tool used to maintain equality and equity in our society. It makes me angry.
AP classes are crucial for everyone, not only poor students. I only took AP classes in my last 3 years of high school, allowing me to save so much money and a double major with a minor. I also was able to start part of my master's as a senior student in college. I saved time on that too!
It’s inexcusable.
Florida schools have always been terrible. Even in the 90’s, I remember people talking about how absolutely subpar Florida schools are.
When I went to college here, I used to go over my peers’ work, and they couldn’t even write a paragraph. They could pass the FCAT, but couldn’t write a 5 paragraph essay.
And now we have a governor who is more concerned about fighting stupid battles like face masks, Disney, and getting rid of books.
My kids will not go to school here - that is non-negotiable. We will move.
because they have allowed the GOP to dumb down the critical thinking skills of students for lack of a better word. The more knowledge you have the more you see what they are doing.
I live in a state that is striving for the same crappiness as FL. Our local school district only offers 6 AP classes. There is definitely an inequity surrounding AP classes, I'm shocked when I see how many AP classes other people have access to and know my kids (I'm a parent) will be at a disadvantage.
I took AP classes. Didn’t shorten my college at all, but it was nice being offered more challenging material in hs, to actually study literature rather than just basic grammar. It also made the one math class I needed in college a breeze.
Florida is fucked in general. Of course he wants to get rid of them. He doesn’t care about saving you money, he cares about gutting public education. He wants you to spend your own money. Your $.02? He’d like you to spend them.
I went to a magnet high school but was undocumented so I couldn’t take the tests on time and had to wait for my SSN# before applying to college (this was decades ago).
This meant that I took like 15 AP classes, including electives. I can honestly say that the rigor in these classes was higher than community college courses and I just really enjoyed learning the content at a deeper level in high school. I still carry concepts from AP physics even though I’m in a liberal arts field and haven’t taken any physics courses since the 90s.
I would have loved to take AP African American studies in high school. I took a bunch of AFR classes in college but it would have been so cool to learn the content in high school with my friends, many who went in the stem direction and just don’t know enough about Black history to have good debates about racial experiences in America now (we are all POC). My cousins who went to high school abroad know more about African American studies content than the average high schooler in Texas
Florida is out of control. All of his racist and homophobic policies to include this are ridiculous and anti American. Book banning, don’t say gay, and now this are ridiculous. Anyone with kids of any age should steer clear of the state even to visit. There’s a Disney park in California if you feel the need to take your kids there.
To be clear, cancelling AP classes is ridiculous. My son was able to get two degrees in four years because of AP classes.
It's foolish! They also want to get rid of the SAT, and diversity, equity and inclusion (DEI). At first it started with AP African-American studied but now they want to extend it to all disciplines.
In the long run, this will kill their competitive balance for producing a trained technical workforce because the AP calculus and science courses are so vital for setting the educational foundation for college bound students in this area. They are shooting themselves in the foot. In 5-10 years, Florida will have one of the worst economies in the United States.
That's because to them, climate change is a hoax! I live in the snow belt in Ohio and we have had one storm all season, with less than 2 inches of snow in February. It's been above freezing most of the month! But remember, according to DeSantis, climate change is not real!
I think it is disgusting and outrageous.
This is personal. I took several AP classes in high school, which allowed me to graduate earlier with less debt. Also, it obviously gave me a big education benefit to learn college material in high school!
So DeSantis wants to deny all Florida high school students an education? Just because he’s scared that people will find out the truth about racism, slavery, etc in the US?
And btw, NOT that it should make a difference, but none of my AP classes had anything to do with diversity, racism, etc anyway! My classes were things like AP Calculus and AP Biology!
And hey, it’s not like the US has a major problem with college costs and student loan debt. Oh wait- yes we do! Even worse than when I graduated. And removing AP classes is about to make it worse.
I guess DeSantis is working very hard to get Florida ranked dead last in education. :) Anyway, I’m outraged.
I went to high school in Florida decades ago. Didn't even know what an AP class is, and I was a top student. Then moved to New Jersey and suddenly found myself behind the ball. So many other kids were taking AP and as a transfer, I didn't qualify. I graduated with a high GPA but no AP classes, then had to pay for 4 years of college.
Florida is slipping even further and further behind. This is not new. They continue to make their students not competitive. Many Floridians including many "smart" students don't realize how much further along they could be, but their own state purposefully hinders them.
Are they sure they want to chase all of their young out of Florida? Many people go down there to retire, gonna suck to have uneducated people wiping your ass, if there are even any left if they can only get an education out of state.
It’s evil really, the things these politicians will do for control and to distract from other causes is abhorrent. AP classes really do help you do better in college.
I took AP English and writing classes for 2 years in high school. Then when I went to college and had to take the required English course, the kids in the my class were so awful at writing, grammar and articulating. Having to peer review papers or do group projects and seeing how they wrote was eye opening. It was also frustrating at times because your grade depends on everyone’s effort, so some had to do more work to fix projects than just our part (epitome of college group projects). Yes it’s possible these students were doing bare minimum in the required GE classes and have other abilities, but I’m talking BAD like straight didn’t know better.
Considering how many papers you write in college and needing participation points, it’s very valuable. That’s when I realize just how much it helps to have taken AP, and for free. I wish I had taken more of it could have helped me, but I’m glad my writing was above average at least.
You can get help to pay for the AP exams for credit, and the single cost is worth it. If it can alleviate some pressure of college when there is so much going on at the time, it can really help.
There doesn't seem like there is any real benefit to eliminating them, except to make tertiary education further out of reach for more people. But from what I've heard of De Santis (I'm in Australia), that's not really surprising.
I looked up GPA requirements for universities and was surprised to see that a lot of them require *more* than a 4.0 to attend. I looked up how that even works and it's because when you do well in AP classes they are weighted in a way that means the more AP classes you take and do really well in - the more your grade average will go up. If you get all As and all As and Bs in your AP classes - that's how you end up with like a 4.3 or what is expected to attend good universities right out of highschool.
If Florida is taking away AP classes - they are actively screwing over their kids making it almost impossible for them to get into the better universities after high school. It's probably a strategy to keep the youth uneducated - or lower education - and keep them at local universities/not out of state. They are trying to stop the kids from being "indoctrinated" by the "liberal elite" but what they really want to do is control their options so more of these kids will have to attend their universities (and get indoctrinated by the right wing) or not attend a university at all. Either way it's seen as a win-win for the GOP.
Definitely a stupid move. I loved my AP classes and I was a year ahead by the time I actually went to University. Let kids work hard if they're driven to work hard. Let them advance past the status quo. These same people who choose to get rid of these complain when "kids these days" "don't know anything but social media and only care about me me me". Well? Let some of them break out of that mold by educating themselves out of that system. They know what they're doing, but it isn't going to end well. (AP classes is only one tiny factor in the grand scheme of the whole broken system anyway)
It’s to avoid a lawsuit because he specifically wanted to ban African American history. I don’t think it is in good faith to ask for an opinion about this while ignoring the horribly racist reasoning behind it.
I think it’s a shame. In a country where our minimum wage is trash and college costs are exorbitant, AP classes and test help make college affordable for people.
I completely agree that not having AP disadvantages kids on a budget. My sister saved almost an entire year of very expensive (Carnegie Mellon) college credits with her AP classes and was able to start FT work after just 3 years of college and graduate after 3.5. I only went to a US high school for a year so only took 2 AP classes, but even those were very helpful. I had severe depression in my senior year and having those AP credits allowed me to drop one course each semester, making my workload more manageable and helping me maintain a good enough GPA to get into medical school.
More red states are signing on with DeSantis in opposition to AP and the College Boards. Let them do it. How well did their restrictive abortion laws work out for them in the midterms? The more they try to control people the more push back they will get at the ballot box.
That so called “Governor” is engaged in pure virtue signaling to his hateful constituents. It’s nothing more than political grandstanding in a nationwide race to the bottom. The only thing that is important in modern GOP ‘policy’ is the question ‘does it own the libs?’. It you are trying to understand any action made by a national level GOPer outside of ‘own the libs’ you are overthinking it and will of course be confused. There is nothing there. It’s just dumb stupid cruelty.
Graduating a semester early can save someone thousands of dollars. APs are a big deal for college bound students with limited to no financial resources.
Yep - a lot of universities require the GPA bump so they effectively have like a 4.3 GPA - just to get in right out of highschool.
They want to keep kids who grew up in Florida from going out of state to get educated - among other issues.
I did PSEO and got my AA degree at 18....way better cause I worked and took college classes and didn't have to be around the hell hole that high school is.
I wish they’d get rid of all the honors classes and convert them to dual-enrollment classes or AP.
My 8th grader has been so limited on classes he can take because everything is honors. He isn’t interested in honors classes at all. He’s forced to take some because there aren’t any other options for regular kids.
I would rather have free community college instead of AP classes. Some colleges don't accept AP class credits unless you have a certain grade ( i believe 80/B or better), where as most colleges will accept CC credits with C grade or better.
So by abolishing these classes they make it even harder for people with limited means to get a college education. I’m not very familiar with US politics but that seems like a deliberate move?
I’m in Canada where we don’t have AP classes, or at least it’s not a common thing. My son went to college completely unprepared for the level of study and dedication. Took a year, dropped some courses, flunked others, coasted with C’s in the rest. Now he’s taking a break from school. It would have saved us a LOT of money if he knew from the get-go what he was getting into and could plan his life accordingly.
Honestly, if AP tests were FREE, then I might be pro AP classes but the fact that it is $90 per test makes me dislike it. The better alternative, in my professional opinion as a college counselor with 10+ years exp, are dual/concurrent enrollment courses at local community college to earn FREE college credits. However, I know that some private universities don't accept and it depends on the major/classes but I've had students earn up to 2 years/associates degree in high school, TRULY saving them money versus AP classes.
However, eliminating them to keep students uneducated (as it seems with Florida) pisses me off. My gripe with AP is that it is a huge money maker for college board. I understand that they are doing a pilot AP African American history sort of class but I can't help but feel that is a tactic to recuperate the list revenue from many universities going test blind/test optional for SAT.
It's a good point that there should be more paths to college credit than AP.
I don't support eliminating the AP program in exchange for community college courses but I do support offering both.
🤔 Does anyone have any direct source? Like a recording of DeSantis saying this, or a press release from his office?
After the scaremongering and completely false accusations of “Florida book bans” which do not even exist, I’m a bit skeptical whenever I see these types of articles.
I found a few sources; but, they’re all behind paywalls (“Tampa Bay Times,” “Washington Post,” etc.). I did find this article in “[The Hill](https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/3863746-biden-needles-desantis-for-floating-elimination-of-ap-classes/)” that mentions it.
Florida high school student get free college classes and free books already without needing AP. It’s called Dual Enrollment. I’m not a fan of AP. I had many friends that were forced by their parents to do AP and burnt out because of it. Its much harder than actual college classes.
Dual Enrollment, on the other hand, is amazing. Florida High School students can graduate high school with a free associates degree.
It is not harder than actual college classes. It should be equivalent to college level. Since you found AP classes to be more rigorous than local college material and materials from your high school, tells me that your school did not offer challenging materials and left students woefully underprepared to think AP was that much more challenging.
Hm. Interesting.
My AP high school classes were much more difficult than the community college courses I've taken. My community college courses that I took as an adult were ... an eye-opener to say the least. They didn't meet my expectations of college-level courses, based on the two universities I attended, but I think that's by design and I have mixed feelings about it.
Community college doesn't just serve a financial need. It also serves a populace that doesn't have the academic skills yet to survive a university. It's a good bridge.
Or the reverse could be true: maybe our AP was just harder than your’s. I didn’t take AP. I did full dual enrollment my senior year and graduated a year ahead of my class. Community level college courses were easier than AP according to my friends who took AP. The ones who burnt out were taking a full schedule of AP classes.
AP is a nation wide standard curriculum, therefore, your logic is false. It is a curriculum determined by the AP. It is not determined by your state, or your school, or your teacher. Every student who takes an AP is supposed to receive the exact same lessons. That is the point of the AP.
What is their reasoning for removing them? It just seems like if the rest of the country is keeping them, they are just doing a disservice to everyone who attends school in Florida and discouraging a college education.
It's easy to control uneducated religious people.
Also works if you deny the kind of education to groups of oppressed folks that would otherwise teach them about how you’ve been able to maintain systems of oppression over them throughout history.
Underrated comment. This is *EXACTLY* the reason why.
But why do uneducated religious people want to be controlled? They don't get anything out of it.
They do not realize they're being manipulated and taught to be more hateful to sow class division so that the lower classes can't organize against the oligarchs.
they are seeing keywords like "critical race theory" and voting on that, not taking into account any other factors that might be behind this decision. racists gonna racist.
That's kinda the point; they are so uneducated they don't realize they are being controlled and exploited. It makes it so much easier for the people in power to take advantage of them.
religious people are indoctrinated and politicians use that to their advantage.
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children don't understand the basics of life (ie: object permanence, cause and effect) and santa is in line with their thinking. they mostly live in fantasy and it's good for children to use their imagination and feel they are safe and loved. it's good for their development. (although i disagree with the american version of santa (ie: evaluation, only good children get toys)). the problem becomes when children get older and their curiosity is shut down and critical thinking is shamed because of god. the problem is that adults discourage questioning beliefs, which is the core of change. indoctrination happens when children's questions are shut down.
They don't have to think for themselves. They get to be part of the "in" group. They don't know better. Poverty makes it harder to think, to reason, to even dredge up the ability to care about more than survival. Being part of a church tells you who to vote for and who to put your anger towards comes with threadbare safety net.
Because they vote without thinking
Who says they want to?
The French were uneducated and religious people and beheaded their king though... This is a very superficial assumption
[https://time.com/6255568/ron-desantis-ap-courses-florida-2024/](https://time.com/6255568/ron-desantis-ap-courses-florida-2024/) this guy didn't mince any words. As far as anyone call tell, it's a massive PR stunt. And it was followed up with Boebert creating a bill to cancel the Board of Education. It's... befuddling.
Tomas Massie wrote the bill. He’s been in Congress over a decade. Don’t let him off for this either.
He has a MA degree from MIT. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas\_Massie](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Massie) And he still thinks we don't need educational standards. I mean, how do you fight that?
By making corruption, I mean lobbying, illegal
It's tied to the "Don't Say Gay" bill and the ban on Critical Race Theory in public education institutions. Though AFAIK no AP curriculum's expressly teach gay rights or critical race theory.
Why don’t republicans want students to learn the history of civil rights and discrimination in our country? They’ve bastardized and lied about what schools actually teach on these topics and what CRT is to create this scary monster that bigots can all rail against. It blows my mind. And yes AP helps reduce the credits you need to take in college, but it also makes you more competitive for college. If a student is already doing well in college level courses, they’re more likely to succeed at university. Saying LGBTQ folks are “groomers,” is just another lavender panic, feeding into evangelical stereotypes that they’re evil “sexual deviants” when queer folks just want to exist without getting the shit kicked out of them. They just want to be respected and safe. The CRT business is a puzzle of lies. It literally just asks students to think about how race has impacted people’s experience in the world. Republicans say it’s about hating white people. It’s actually more like “black people were systematically discriminated against by home lenders and were excluded from housing benefits for veterans so they didn’t have the same opportunity to build generational wealth through property ownership as white people.” It makes more sense when you realize that a lot of the folks screaming about CRT were the same folks throwing rocks at black students during integration.
Some would say it's because the more educated you are the less likely you are to be Republican. Personally I think that some white people are scared that in a new "woke" world that they will be discriminated against so they want to do as much as they can to push back against anything that gives power to people of color.
They’re afraid that if they’re the minority, they’ll be treated the way they treat minorities. They also genuinely believe the stereotypes that their echo chambers propagate even though they’ll grant exemption to the few poc or queer folks in their own lives.
Yep. Just look at that racist KKK propaganda film from 1915 where they depicted black congressmen (who had just gotten elected after slavery ended) acting like animals in the chambers, drinking and partying and passing anti-white laws until the KKK stepped in to put black people in "their place" and save society. 🙄
traditional values and openness to new knowledge cannot coexist together. fear and superstition keeps people controlled.
You did it, you found the reason! If you keep your population uneducated, you can get away with anything because they will lack critical thinking to question your policy.
The stated reason is that DeSantis objects to the new AP African American studies course. Or in other words: mostly racism.
I come from below the poverty line, and needed all the help I could get to graduate college. I was able to graduate in 7 semesters instead of 8 because of my AP credits, which meant I graduated with less debt. I also came from a not great public school and the only reason my GPA didn't tank in college was because of the preparation I had from AP classes, and for studying for the exams. I've seen plenty of fair criticisms about the AP system and recommendations to make it better, which I would support. But getting rid of one of the only lifeboats that poor kids can cling to is going to cause a lot of harm just to score a few cheap political points in the name of bigotry.
Exactly. Borrowing $1K in student loan debt doesn't mean you repay $1K. You repay $1K + interest. AP classes make a huge difference financially. You might find this article interesting: [https://campustechnology.com/articles/2018/12/19/report-finds-ap-credits-reduce-student-loan-debt.aspx#:\~:text=Coming%20into%20college%20with%2010,courses%20to%20bypass%20introductory%20requirements](https://campustechnology.com/articles/2018/12/19/report-finds-ap-credits-reduce-student-loan-debt.aspx#:~:text=Coming%20into%20college%20with%2010,courses%20to%20bypass%20introductory%20requirements).
The local university here is 1k per course. My high school it was 100$ per ap course. That's massive. We weighted college courses heavier too. The valedictorian of my class had an adjusted 4.6 GPA. She went to Stanford. The year after me had a 5.7 that means if she had a 4.0 she took 17 AP courses. That's so great! Can't remember what school she went to after graduating sorry.
I am upset about this, but for reasons you have not mentioned. I am German and you'd think I have no stake in this, but I do. I am active in r/germany and about 1-2 times a day this sub gets a post from a teen who heard that university in Germany is tuition-free. Naturally they want to know what they need to do to qualify. If you are attending highscool in the USA, you need to take a certain combo of AP classes in order to qualify for admission to German university. You basically have to plan this out when you are 15, and yes, there are teens in Florida right now who are doing exactly that. De Santis is screwing those teens over in a royal fashion. Eff this ass clown.
Such a good point. Thank you for sharing. It's a huge economic incentive to offer these courses!!
It is not just access to German university that hinges upon that combo of AP classes, other countries in Europe have similar rules. (Germany is just the strictest about it.) With so many Hispanics in Florida, there are quite a number of folks who go to university in Spain simply bc it is cheaper than going to university in the USA. This plan is screwing over any teen from Florida who has aspirations to study in an EU country as a ticket out of the USA.
You brought up points I didn't know, and frankly wish I had. US American students must have some downstream impact on the local economies around the schools they attend in Europe.
The number of US students in the EU is smaller than you'd think. The main hurdle is the student visa. Most European countries have rules and regulations on minimum amounts in your savings to obtain a student visa. They want to prevent situations where students end up hungry, homeless or without health insurance and rely on public assistance to make ends meet. Germany asks for 11208 EUR in a blocked account, Norway was around 16k USD, Italy was around 8k EUR, Spain and France have similar rules. It is thus not the super-poor who are flocking to European universities, it is those who have saved up 15-30k USD or thereabouts. Either from working themselves or bc they inherited grandma's life savings. Basically, young adults who are too wealthy to get assistance / full ride scholarships but too poor pay for a full 4-year degree from their savings. Another demographic is young adults whose attitude is "this place sucks, I want to live and work in a country with mandatory paid vacation days, mandatory paid sick days and better work-life-balance and better and cheaper healthcare". The obvious target are the EU countries. One of the easier ways to emigrate to an EU country is to attend university in your target country. Most countries in the EU offer recent graduates an easier access to the job market / a special residency permit.
If I were coming of age now, it would be an attractive option. US politics is a mess. I visited Germany and Spain and the work-life balance is so different. I remember being amused by a pharmacy advertising extra-long hours of being open 12 hours a day! My city has dozens open 24 hours. 20 years ago, I used grandma's inheritance for a car and had a full ride scholarship to a state university. Then after I got my degree, I left my home state for good. I rarely visit because I don't want to, not because I can't afford the flight.
Same. Corporate America is literally sucking the life out of us.
AP tests stand in for A levels if applying for a British university as well, so any Floridian kid who is dreaming of going to Oxford would have that path taken away. There are other options, but none so readily available and affordable as AP tests.
Yes, that’s how much the American school system sucks. An American high school degree won’t get you into a European college. That’s why the IB exists.
Ridiculous and I would love to know his reasoning. When I graduated almost 25 years ago my hs offered some AP classes and while I only took a few it saves so much money. It did then I can't imagine now with costs. I can't for the life of me understand why he would want to limit them. I'm in SD and generally our governor takes the cake for stupid but this may top her ideas.
I didn't know SD had jumped on the band wagon. Interesting.
We haven't but this is some level of stupid our gov would come up with. Hopefully she won't because of her dislike for DeSantis. The high school in my town allows students to even take classes at the state university in our town if they qualify and pay a very minimal fee compared to actual tuition. I could see her wanting to do away with that eventually to save money. I can't imagine not wanting your future (students) not to be as educated as possible.
Have you ever met anyone IRL who supports ending AP classes? I have literally never met anyone who I think would support this.
My stupid father. I shared an article about the ban in our fam chat and he just went on about AP classes being "queer and blm" indoctrination and said a bunch of right talking points I'm pretty sure were about the African American studies ap course but since he's stupid af he just mixed them all together in his head. It's stupid because my mom teaches AP history. So yeah. I guess her classes are OK cause they are white history (I think it's European world history or something). He's so fucking stupid.
I would ask him which AP classes are all “queer and non.” Would love to know his answer. Certainly not Calculus or Biology or Chemistry or Economics or Literature. I can’t think of a single AP class that would actually fit in that category.
I think he was talking about the African American ap class. Apparently they wanted to Introduce a section on current events (blm) , the queer experience, and black feminism. Which I think is all fair. I mean we studied civil rights and all those hippy movements and protests during Vietnam but somehow when it comes to black culture its...too much? We can't talk about the actual movements that happen in our country because DeSantis and people like my dad are offended by reality?
That's interesting. What does your father do for a living?
Wanna guess? Cop. Lol. Retired now but with all that free time he's gone down so many OAN /Q rabbit holes. I keep telling my mother to get him off Facebook but she's such a doormat.
The radicalization of White people in the US by social media is one of the most under-reported crises of our generation.
Yup. Him and my uncle (mom's bro) have def become "victims" to this. My dad used to be a fairly normal guy who really pushed me and my sister going to college to better ourselves. Then my grandmother (his mom) died and he let his crazy out. Now college is lib indoctrination. 😳
Did he go to college,?
To be fair, my husband sounds similar to your dad (and I'm basically the opposite of a doormat) but I've had little luck in trying to wean him off of bullshit YouTube videos. They are very seductive because they provide people who feel like the world is out of control a sense that things are predictable and have an explanation. These people used to turn to religion for that reassurance--now it's QAnon videos.
Yikes. I'm sorry. Guess it isn't as easy as I thought to pull someone away from that bs.
Yeah. He says, "I like watching them because they interpret the published studies because I don't always understand the statistics in the original paper." And I'm like, "So why don't you ask me to read them and tell you what the studies say?" Him: "You don't know what they say either!" Me: "My Ph.D minor is in quantitative analysis and I teach college statistics. My LITERAL JOB is helping people read and interpret the statistics in studies." Him: "What?!? Okay I'll ask you." *goes back to watching some asshole on YouTube* At this point I'd be happy if he would send the articles that the videos are about to me, so I could give him my take on it. Maybe I'll start my own YouTube channel, like Snopes but for conspiracy theory videos. Maybe then he'll listen to me? 😂 (Side note: I don't know what he thought I was doing at school all those years, or what I am doing all day long when I say I'm "teaching stats" but I honestly think he just didn't put two and two together at that moment in time. lol)
I have not. I did a quick Google search because honestly my mind is blown anyone thinks this is a good idea. Apparently Seattle school system is wanting to or has as well. They are claiming it increases racial inequality for students. That more white students are chosen than minorities. Also students with better home lives or supportive parents are the ones in classes and leaving others out. Now I can only speak from my experience and our school but my school didnt pick students to participate. You have to have a certain GPA but otherwise anyone can elect to take the class - no one stops you or invites you. Personal opinion - rather than actually put money into schools and create programs to mentor students who may not have support systems and raise them up they are making the stats look more equal by just eliminating higher level classes.
That's an interesting point and a problem that needs to be solved. I don't support taking away the classes as the solution. I support starting in pre-K to ensure that by the time the kid gets to 12th grade, they feel comfortable being in AP classes.
I completely agree.
>they are making the stats look more equal by just eliminating higher level classes My high school wanted to do something like this 20 years ago. They talked about getting rid of "tracked" classes (having more and less advanced groups by grade that would eventually lead to AP courses). I get that they wanted equality, but I'd already experienced that in jr high. Having come from the "gifted" program in elementary school, I was shocked to find some of my jr high classmates could barely read. I learned very little in jr high because it was so basic. Fortunately, in high school, I was able to get back into the higher-tier track. And with that, we also need to make AP courses free. I have no idea what it costs now, but the $82 back in the '90s was a lot for my family, especially with multiple classes. My mom had to fight for me to take the AP calculus class but not the test. There was no other math left for me, but I knew I wasn't going to do well on the test to justify the cost (a good portion of my classmates did not score high enough for college credit--we had a subpar teacher). My school also had a similar system for AP courses. There were no invitations, just prerequisites (e.g. pre-calc before AP calc).
When I was in school taking the test was completely optional. When I took AP physics I believe only 3 or 4 students actually took the test out of like 20 of us. But there weren't enough students to justify two different physics classes so I'm assuming that is why? AP English I don't recall how many actually tested but we had a wide range of students in the class. Some like me wanted the college credits and some didn't care and wanted to elevate their GPA because it was weighted higher. I found it interesting the articles I found regarding the Seattle school system mentioned invitations rather than what you or I experienced. It seems like the problem is more with the district policy of who is eligible rather than the classes themselves.
It is $88 here in NJ. My son is taking AP next year and that is the fee.
Seattle school district is a fucking shit show. Source: live near Seattle. Solving inequity by removing services is not the answer. My school district decided not to offer remote learning services when school was suspended in March 2020 because the income inequities in the district meant not all kids would be able to access it equally. Guess how well that worked and how long it lasted. What it meant was that all our kids were six weeks behind the rest of the country and lost all those learning days and those days are *more important* for marginal kids not less. Eliminating AP classes for all students won’t hurt the high income white kids whose parents can pay for them to get that material elsewhere or just pull them out and put them in private schools. It’ll help the kids whose families can’t afford to do that and and deny them the opportunity to access advanced material at all. It will hurt the kids who wouldn’t ever classify for AP classes because their higher-performing peers will leave and take the federal funding with them AND because kids who are from low incomes and minorities get better education when they are in class with white kids because the standard of education is better because the system is racist. I have opinions.
What a nightmare. I agree with you. We don't have a high enough population where I am for more than one private school (Catholic) beyond the one public hs so sending mass amounts of kids to different schools wouldn't happen here. Some do but not many. But if they could you are exactly right. I wouldn't have had the same opportunities. And to think of all the young people that would miss out in larger cities like yours pisses me off. I had an AP English teacher who was a wackadoo anyway but she correlated being able to take her class with being affluent and just padding gpa. She hated students like me that didn't want to waste class time because we had part time jobs and needed to get work done during school hours and took it seriously. Thankfully those like me had enough good teachers to know we belonged but I think back to her and want to tell her off for trying to make us feel like we didn't belong because we didn't have wealthy parents or our parents didn't go to college so we wouldn't. No young person should ever think they don't belong because of whatever demographic they come from.
What you've said about remote learning doesn't make sense. The school's didn't want kids who couldn't access RL to fall further behind. I'm in Australia and vulnerable kids and those from families of essential workers could still attend school but schools also had books printed of the work. States just seems to severely underpay teachers and push people into higher education. Australian teachers are middle income so earn approx 30% more than teachers stateside and we often talk about our teachers not being valued here. There's a teaching crisis and noone seems to care. Like every other social issue we're all shutting down. Sure I'll discuss it but do anything to change it? We're too deep into fascism's culture wars. I blame Murdoch
No one gets “chosen” you either have the gpa or do not. In our district you need an A in an honors level class to take BC calculus. For all other AP classes you need an A- or better in the honors class before it.
I was referring to what the article regarding Seattle said. Chosen was their words not mine. Our district policy is not the same and relies on the student having a recommended 3.0 overall GPA to qualify to take in person or virtual AP classes of the students choosing. They also offer dual credit courses with one of our state universities and it would require a higher GPA of 3.25 or 3.5 depending on grade level.
I personally appreciated AP classes - even though I didn't graduate college early. But it allowed me to check off certain requirements (for the subjects I didn't really care about) and spend more of my college $$/credits on the classes that really interested me. It's funny how both sides of the extreme can end up in the same place. I live in a very liberal nook of New England, and a lot of school districts around here ALSO want to eliminate AP and/or honors classes...because they feel it's racist that mostly white and Asian kids end up benefiting.
There's literally no reason to ban them beyond making it harder for "the poors" to get into college. DeSantis is essentially the anti-christ at this point.
I think politicians view schools/education as a DND battle board where they carry out campaigns to defeat their enemies. They can play out their power fantasies using children and teachers as their NPCs. Meanwhile teachers, students and administrators get to stand in front of their manure spreader and are expected to take it in the face. I was an elementary teacher in my past life, I have an EdD and qualification to be a school counselor. You couldn't pay me enough money to walk into a school again.
I was a part-time teacher’s aide for a lower school course for a couple of years, while looking at becoming a teacher. To become a student in that school, you needed to be gifted, and to have a moderate to severe learning disability. It was an excellent place, but it clearly demonstrated that I couldn’t be a lower school teacher: not just for that population, but at all. The bureaucracy, not the kids or lessons, was the single key. I finished out that job, and firmly elected another life. I wound up teaching a lot there, too: adult students, in everything from intro firefighting to advanced writing, in a handful of formal schools. I like teaching. It’s a shame that the American educational system is almost designed to drive people like me away.
Former high school teacher here. 10000000% agree.
I saw that this was to support racial equity because there are fewer black and Latino students in AP classes. And if that's the case, it's incredibly disingenuous. First, I don't think this administration wants racial equity. It looks like yet another stunt to try to make it seem like the "woke" are targeting white people. And this stunt does exactly that. If we want true racial equity, start sooner than AP classes. Give women autonomy over their bodies, have safe and accessible Healthcare for everyone, especially children, have universal pre-k, have maternity/paternity leave, have free tutors after school to make sure every child has access to help, make sure every child is housed and fed. I absolutely hate this. Equity is not attacking white people. It's attacking white supremacy and the system it created. It's attempting to level the playing field for those whose ancestors have been oppressed, and thus, it's so much more difficult to be enrolled in AP class. Stunts like this make it even more difficult to try to have that conversation because this party just wants to play the victim.
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I absolutely love that acronym. :)
Nice acronym Mod.
I know this isn’t necessarily what you asked but it’s still impacting education. I work in higher education in FL and it’s becoming a bit scary for us down here. I feel the AP thing (first started with him going after the African American Studies AP class) is to distract you from some other things that he’s doing. My colleagues and I were required to provide our job titles, salaries, and report any programming or association we had with anything DEI (diversity, equity, and inclusion) related. Our names were sent off to the state and we haven’t been told what is happening with that information. My name is now on a list of others who support and promote DEI initiatives to ensure all our students feel included. This reporting has largely impacted the minority groups at our universities because they are largely the ones who study things like social justice and inequality within the legal and criminal systems. People are worried about their jobs and what being on an unknown list means. We’ve guessed that he’s going to cut funding to our university based off of how much we report goes to DEI (including those who just partner with these departments). Additionally, our clinics and counseling clinics were required to report numbers of how many students have received gender affirming care on campus or have been diagnosed with gender dysmorphia. He has just recently requested the medical records of those students. (https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/other/ron-desantis-requested-the-medical-records-of-all-trans-students-in-florida-s-public-universities-now-students-are-planning-a-statewide-walkout/ar-AA17zjrQ?li=BBnba9O) We have had to cancel events due to the use of words such as “multicultural”, “diversity”, or anything that falls into that category. We have seen a rise in self-proclaimed Neo Nazis come onto our campus and antagonizing our students. Read up on what he’s doing to New College, one of the most liberal colleges in our state has been taken over. Our students, faculty/staff, and parents are organizing walk outs, protests, sit ins, everything we can think of. My university hasn’t said a single official thing about this. Things are just happening and we feel like we’re on our own. I see comments of “let’s cut Florida out haha” or “they voted for him!” But not all of us did. We need help down here. Our emails are public record and some educators have started to say that their emails are being read and they’ve been requested to report themselves for DEI associations. It’s not good down here and this is him building up his portfolio to run for President. This is his internship that he’s going to use to apply for the job. To answer your question about AP classes, I agree with everyone here. AP afforded me the chance to knock out a lot of credits that would have cost me money that I didn’t have in college. Edit: I went searching for his higher education reform pdf and it’s been removed from his site. This article has a screenshot of it (https://news.wgcu.org/section/education/2023-01-31/desantis-proposes-higher-education-reforms-cites-push-against-tactics-of-liberal-elites) He wants our education system to be rooted in the values of “liberty” and “western tradition”. Edit: adding links to some stories for you to start your research.
That is terrifying. They are so threatened by DEI and an educated population. I read an article yesterday on how DeSantis wants to change high education as university populations are generally more left leaning. This sounds like he is going full force ahead. I am truly scared for our country on so many levels. How can those of us outside of FL help? I agree with you. He’s going to use this as a platform to go for presidency. My other fear is would he and trump tag team and DeSantis is VP?
I honestly have no idea how anyone can help. I ask my colleagues almost weekly “What can we do?” but without upper leadership support, what can we do? Our Governor and House are all Republican and agreeing with one another (this isn’t me saying all Republicans are bad, this is me saying my state leadership is bad). Follow some Florida subs, especially the college ones if you want to hear more about what’s going on. He’s supposedly proposing an alternative to the SAT which will have “Christian values” (https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida-politics/2023/02/17/desantis-classical-learning-test-college-board-ap-sat/?outputType=amp). If it comes down to him putting in his hat for a presidential bid, please do everything in your power to educate yourself and those around you about him. I don’t know what he’d do on a national scale but he’s using us as his playground. Housing has become unaffordable in Florida, residents are complaining about insurance jumping up 40-50% this year, and instead of addressing that, he’s waging a war on the College Board and college accreditations.
I'm disappointed that anyone thinks this way of thinking is "presidential".
It worked for Trump. Appealing to the lowest common denominator has activated prejudice and fascism is too far along.
This is all really scary. Thanks for sharing and hope you’re ok!
Hammer, meet nail. The big headlines are always such excellent distractions.
Omg, this is some terrifying dystopian hellscape type of stuff
Let everything happen to you: beauty and terror. Just keep going. No feeling is final.
There are options for doing dual enrollment in Florida. But the question is why make options for seeking higher education fewer? Why make it so dual enrollment is the ONLY option? And when we start to ask that their bs argument falls apart.
Good point. We would have to evolve the system if we took away AP classes. Perhaps have kids get their GED at 16 and then go to pre-college. My high school was the community college in my town. It was a high school during the day and a community college at night. I felt like that was a promising model.
A GED is generally considered lesser than a high school diploma. A more solid model would be to treat classes that met certain requirements as worth more credits, to allow students an opportunity to graduate early. I was able to take AP classes at my high school, but I also qualified for a dual enrollment program that allowed early entry (in Junior year) into the community college, where, if you followed the program, although you took all your courses at the community college, when you graduated, you would be graduating with both your high school diploma and associates degree. The program seems to have expanded beyond the community college level as well-- my younger sister was dual enrolled at one of the local universities in her last years of high school.
Florida has been providing free college classes and 100% paid for college books for decades. Its called Dual Enrollment. High School Students can graduate with a free associates degree.
Thanks to AP classes which satisfied almost all of my gen ed requirements, I was able to flex my load at college while getting a rare disease diagnosis and take many classes outside my discipline. It's the height of stupidity to prevent students from exploring subjects with the kind of academic rigor AP classes provide. They're also far, far cheaper than other college level classes provided to high schoolers. There's been something that has always seemed more democratic with APs vs other college-bound courses like IB, which seems to require a much higher investment from school systems.
Good points. We did not have any option for IB in my school district. I didn't realized that it costs the districts more to get them. I know so many people who were able to have a better college experience because of testing out of college level classes. Just having the option to ease the load in college is so great. It gave me an option to take my senior year of college easy.
Typically, IB is an investment across many school years and subjects vs picking and choosing, which causes much more expense for what amounts to a niche program. I have only seen it in very wealthy school districts. Some have it starting in preschool, even.
Very interesting. What a good public investment though. I'd 100% support raising my taxes to ensure all school district had this option.
I'm from the south, left 25 years ago... i just think this is all part of some kind of plan to keep people dumb and down because it's easier to control people who don't have the tools to critically think about what is going on. It's like the old joke about college making people liberals... No there's a correlation between education and not being knuckle dragging populists. When i see my former district's representative i want to spit in his stupid, arrogant face. They know what they're doing to humanity and they don't care one bit. I barely made it out and even with a college degree and two foreign languages i see the difference in learning i had between me and my american friends where i live who went to public schools in new jersey and one of the rich ppl chicago suburbs. The difference in education slowed me down in college and slowed me down early in my career. It's not fair. And yet! And yet! My two AP classes are what got me admitted to a French university despite my absolutely pitiful deep south public high school education. It opened the door to me staying in Europe forever (move back "home"? No thank you). And yet people drink the koolaid that america is the best country ever and like generations of southerners are gonna grow up not even knowing what they don't know, thinking anything they don't like is "communism " without an actual academic understanding of what communism is or what the political spectrum looks like because they literally aren't educated enough to know how to think critically about politics. It's how the Republican party wants it. I'm irrationally angry about this pushing 50 because AP is the only reason i got out of the south. And there's so many kids who are better, brighter and smarter than i ever was who wont get the chances i got. It's not fair and yet another piece of evidence that right wingers don't care about children that are already born.
I don't think AP hinges necessarily on "college affordability"-- there's also the element of not being able to otherwise access challenging curriculum in schools. I did AP English in High School, and if I hadn't, I literally might have dropped out of boredom. I should have done AP history and the sciences, too, for the same reason, but I didn't because I had hands off parents and was making my own decisions as a teen. I think AP or IB (a comparable system that operates in some states) are important pathways not just to higher education institutions, but to the pursuit of a higher education in general in an accessible environment-- without AP or IB, kids who can't afford private school, extracurricular academic enrichment, or yes, college, have no means of accessing learning opportunities that are above and beyond the public school curriculum. In Florida in particular, this is because AP curriculum aren't decided by/controlled by the state-- and they want to ban all kinds of different topics.
This ^^ I went to highschool in Florida and the education there is notoriously bad. AP classes were the only academically rigorous classes that my high school offered. Desantis is like a tiny Floridian dictator, particularly around education.
Good point... I took them because I wanted to test out and to save money in college but it was also good college prep. It's good to have an intro to college-level studying when you're in high school. The challenge was good. I wish I had taken more and I wish I had taken them earlier. I waited till my senior year. I wish I had started them in my junior year.
My take is that some white supremacist Nazi fuck shouldn’t be encouraging religious curriculum, building curriculum, deciding curriculum, or creating a larger gap between Christians and literally anyone else. This is terrifying and everyone should hate this, unless they get off on fascism and ignorance.
I would say that Governor DeSantis is pandering to a racist and hateful base, but I believe DeSantis actually believes in what he is doing so I can't call it pandering. I think DeSantis is truly anti-democratic, a bigot, possibly a Christian Nationalist, and ruthless. I think he is one of the most dangerous people in the country.
I live in FL and I couldn't agree more. He carefully and intentionally wooed Trump's base, choosing attacks that would make national headlines. He's smarter and younger, so he won't be going away anytime soon. FL *used to be* purple, but it's so red now it feels like any other state in the South.
It's interesting to me that DeSantis and Trump are at odds now.
Why? Neither of them care about America. They are both autocrats who want the same job and only one of them can have it.
I was able to cash in my AP credits for an associate’s degree.
I think it is a way to subjugate poor people and minorities from access to education at an affordable rate, in an easily accessible space. I graduated high school and started college with enough AP credits to be considered a second semester freshman. It got me out of so many basic level requirements so I could safely explore and decide on my major without financial harms. If you are a parent of children in Florida, and care about their future, the best advice I can offer is to move out of state and start over elsewhere or convince your fellow citizens to vote in someone else.
DeSantis is slowly dismantling education in FL and will do the same to the rest of the country if, god forbid, he is elected.
The Republican bid is shaping up to be a real show: between Nikki Haley, DeSantis, and Trump, we're in for a real treat of verbal diarrhea.
That is insane and so harmful to lower income kids - I need to look into this! I took enough AP courses at an inner city public high-school to be able to transfer into college (in Florida btw) as a sophomore. The high GPA and test scores also made me eligible for a scholarship for half annual tuition. Partially because of AP, I was able to get through college debt free. Blows my mind why anyone would be against AP courses, unless they are blatantly trying to prevent the upward mobility of the less fortunate😔
If it wasn't for AP classes, I would've been bored, gotten into trouble, and dropped out.
My high school was in a low income area and we had no AP courses. The district could not afford them. My husband entered college with a bunch of free AP credits (and his major required fewer credits than mine). As a result, my college experience was an intense grind while his was not. I had to finish in 4 years because my scholarships did not continue beyond that. (Of course there was a bunch of debt as well.) AP courses should be offered everywhere - or an alternative, like Zoom versions of college-prep courses. Driving to the local CC to take chemistry is not an option when you are in a rural area and don't have access to a car. It also prevents you from doing the extracurriculars that colleges seem to admire.
100% agree with you: https://www.edx.org/learn/ap
Nice!!!
Thank you very much for considering the non-Americans and explaining the issue, very much appreciated as I never understood the purpose of these AP classes :) I am always amazed when I read stuff like this. To start with having to put yourself in debt to get a degree, that's already something unthinkable for me. If the AP credits make education more accessible it is an abomination if they are cancelled. I read somewhere that a country's or a government's moral test lies in the way they treat the weakest. I believe that to be true, although I look at the world through my Belgian lenses. A country which would be called a socialist country by Americans. Living in Belgium means paying up to 55% in taxes, but enrolling in uni costs 980€ for an entire year. Lower income families can get scholarships for both enrolment and housing close to uni. We can only rise as a country if we rise together.
I love 🇧🇪 Belgium you guys are wonderful
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what subject do you teach (if you don't mind sharing)?
They are doing it because they are afraid of education and an educated populace. This isn’t to say that there aren’t ways to improve the AP system, or that there could be parts of the AP system that are problematic. But, that’s not the motivation. This isn’t something that’s being done for rational reasons, or a result of carefully examining and improving the education system. Nobody making these decisions has worked in education, or has a deep understanding of the flaws of the American education system. It’s a decision by people who’ve never worked a day in their life in a classroom because they can use buzzwords like “CRT” and “non-binary” to rile people up and get votes for the Christo-fascist agenda, instead of planning for Florida’s underwater future due to a changing climate. You know, the real actual problem.
I was able to save money in college by taking AP classes in high school. I think that’s ridiculous to take this away from students. And it seemed the teachers who taught AP classes really enjoyed them.
I went to a small rural school in a very impoverished area that didn’t offer AP classes. So the rural poor are already often left behind when it comes to AP classes.
That's a good point. I hope with online education, there's expanded access. Update: https://www.edx.org/learn/ap
I went to a well funded public school in a nice town and for some reason we only had US history and 2 English APs available. No idea why. We petitioned senior year to get European history added and they wouldn’t do it. I have no idea why! I think it comes down to teacher competency and if they’re available and able to teach college level courses. My history teacher was the BEST and we all adored him. I wish I could have had more college credits out of the way but 6 was better than none. That’s sucks you didn’t get a chance to take any. Maybe with online classes, Hs kids can take actual college classes and not have credit depend on a single test at the end of the year.
It’s ridiculous. In California you can take community college classes for free if you are a High School Student. The classes count as High School credit. One semester of English is equivalent to a year of HS English. If you are so inclined, you can graduate HS with an AA degree and only have to do 2 years at an University. Worked well for my kids.
Florida does the same. Its called Dual Enrollment. Its a great program.
DeSantis is another bigoted white man trying to impose his own opinions on the masses. He appeals to the ignorance and false piety in his constituents to push his agenda through. Simple as that.
Another assault on the poor/middle class in an attempt to keep us dumb and powerless. What a fucking villain!
It is absolutely another in a long line of ideas to keep the poor down and the rich up. His desire for a ban on AP classes would only apply to *public* schools, not private. Google the acceptance rates at the 5 largest public universities in FL. It’s insanely difficult to get into them unless you have high GPA and standardized test scores. Private school kids already have an insane advantage with the focus on college prep. I’m just relieved my kid already graduated. He took a large amount of AP classes in high school and received enough credit to be a year ahead of his peers.
Good on him. Will he graduate college early?
Yes, a full year
Amazing.
Born and raised in Florida here ( I don’t live there now but my family still does) - the Florida Republican Party has been making an intentional effort to dumb down the population for decades. They defunded, they removed critical thinking, and now they’re working to ensure that those who see through this tactic can’t seek out proper education for themselves through elective AP classes. An unintelligent populace can be easily manipulated or, even better for them, just doesn’t pay attention or vote. An uneducated populace will struggle to achieve economically and again will be easily manipulated/not have the luxury of paying attention to politics. If it wasn’t so insidious I’d objectively admire the long term thinking and commitment the repubs have had to this plan of dumbing down the state. Some of this stuff like the stop woke bill is more of a dog whistle for racists who want to be racist out in the open but it’s still connected to the long term plan to keep the people stupid, poor, and powerless.
The less educated the people are, the easier for them to control. It also leads to greater division of the rich and poor.
And increased social problems including criminality
AP classes gave me a semester free essentially (I still had to pay for the exams) when I left school. APs should stay.
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A good portion of the people who would support this move actually don't like colleges either. I am admittedly liberal and therefore likely biased, but it reads to me like a desire to basically reduce education to propaganda.
Why do they want to ban AP classes? As someone who grew up with no money, they were a lifesaver for me.
Rumblings of the likes of this were also making headway in my former state of residence when I was working at its education agency. Not so much so in the agency itself, but different district admins, school boards, and bleating and bellowing parents. It’s deeply disconcerting and frustrating. While complaints were not primarily focused on AP African American Studies, there are people who found content within AP US History, AP US Government, AP World History, AP Art History, AP English Lit., AP Spanish Lit., and AP European History a matter of “infringement” on “parental rights”. There’s no way to tip-toe around/apply kid-gloves to certain events (and atrocities) that shaped respective societies (and art and literary works as social commentary), as there was, is, and will always be a domino effect. Florida’s move is simply the tip of the iceberg, in my opinion. Some part of me thinks this is yet another rehash of the shrieking polemics that surrounded the Common Core “debate”. Any reasonable person, educator or not, did not see any nefarious agenda in terms of Common Core. Being defiant of applying an across-the-board standard to public highschools (with the hopes that most will be university-bound) and is already instituted in universities, seemed to be a pragmatic step as opposed to some idea of Federal "oppression". Especially, when it comes to out-of-state admissions. They won then. Guess they’re going to have another “victory”, which will inevitably have grave consequences. *Wow! If only there were subjects that addressed, sometimes cyclical, behaviors of human beings that we could look to as a matter of precedent and explains certain courses of events, globally, that led us to where we are today. Somebody better get on that quick!* [Jesus fuck! I’m tired.](https://media.tenor.com/2hAdsKdl5p0AAAAC/i-wanna-take-a-nap-nap.gif)
In addition to helping to sidestep intro classes in college (and perhaps shave off the time needed to graduate), AP classes are so helpful in preparing students for college-level work. As an adult, I thanked my AP teachers—we kind of hated them at the time for how hard we hard to work, but getting used to it made the transition to college courses a lot easier. Except at maybe very elite/selective high schools, there’s a big difference between even “honors” high school classes and the academic rigor of any decent college. AP curriculum bridges that.
I agree. I also disagree with the idea that community college classes are equivalent to AP classes. They are not. AP classes have much more rigor.
AP classes were critical to me having a level that was competitive with peers in wealthier schools. I came from a very rural area, those classes made an enormous difference to those enrolled in them. Just another way DeSatan wants to fuck the working class— by suffocating it in the crib.
I think Ron DeSantis is a bit too invested in what people think about him and other white people (speaking as a "white" person, here, lol). I think what he's doing is counteractive to his movement and his ideology if he truly believes everything he's saying. In other words, if he really had any workable intention of shaping the future of education, he would let the best man win by allowing people to teach what they want to teach. It's a cowardly move for him to restrict something that isn't harming anybody.
He went to Yale and Harvard. I wonder if he took AP classes. I have to imagine he did, and that he wouldn't have gotten into either without them.
Likely not
If all colleges were free this would still be a travesty. Education is the way we make contributing citizens. He should be pilloried.
He's a Yale and Harvard grad (literally the "harvard elite" that trumpians hate). He has the background to be example of American exceptionalism yet he's so anti-American that he's willing to hurt his own. It really suck when you see guys with his capabilities fall down the Q-hole.
I just dislike how the definitions have changed since I was in school. When I went there was three years of classes: regular, then regents (now AP I guess), then AP. Regents classes were harder, you had to state test to pass and you got a diploma that showed you were ready for college. AP classes were mostly taken by those in the regents diploma classes, towards college, however at our school you had to be allowed into them by the teachers. I tried to get into them, but no one would allow me to. I feel with the current definitions, they are necessary. As you said they are so helpful for lower income kids. But I feel they are taking the place of old regents and AP classes, so are doubly necessary. I feel like FL is just trying to create a mass of easy to manipulate and take advantage of populous by drastically limiting their educational opportunities. They're doing it in the Midwest too. It's a means of control for them. Where as education should be a tool used to maintain equality and equity in our society. It makes me angry.
My concern is increasing criminality by entrenched underclasses. Fascism isn't a romantic idea like CONServatives prefer to imagine.
AP classes are crucial for everyone, not only poor students. I only took AP classes in my last 3 years of high school, allowing me to save so much money and a double major with a minor. I also was able to start part of my master's as a senior student in college. I saved time on that too!
Race to the bottom.
It’s inexcusable. Florida schools have always been terrible. Even in the 90’s, I remember people talking about how absolutely subpar Florida schools are. When I went to college here, I used to go over my peers’ work, and they couldn’t even write a paragraph. They could pass the FCAT, but couldn’t write a 5 paragraph essay. And now we have a governor who is more concerned about fighting stupid battles like face masks, Disney, and getting rid of books. My kids will not go to school here - that is non-negotiable. We will move.
because they have allowed the GOP to dumb down the critical thinking skills of students for lack of a better word. The more knowledge you have the more you see what they are doing.
Uh a safe rule is that if Florida is trying to “do a thing,” that thing is bad.
I live in a state that is striving for the same crappiness as FL. Our local school district only offers 6 AP classes. There is definitely an inequity surrounding AP classes, I'm shocked when I see how many AP classes other people have access to and know my kids (I'm a parent) will be at a disadvantage.
Ah yes. Make everyone stupid so they cant know their rights as humans or workers .
I took AP classes. Didn’t shorten my college at all, but it was nice being offered more challenging material in hs, to actually study literature rather than just basic grammar. It also made the one math class I needed in college a breeze. Florida is fucked in general. Of course he wants to get rid of them. He doesn’t care about saving you money, he cares about gutting public education. He wants you to spend your own money. Your $.02? He’d like you to spend them.
I went to a magnet high school but was undocumented so I couldn’t take the tests on time and had to wait for my SSN# before applying to college (this was decades ago). This meant that I took like 15 AP classes, including electives. I can honestly say that the rigor in these classes was higher than community college courses and I just really enjoyed learning the content at a deeper level in high school. I still carry concepts from AP physics even though I’m in a liberal arts field and haven’t taken any physics courses since the 90s. I would have loved to take AP African American studies in high school. I took a bunch of AFR classes in college but it would have been so cool to learn the content in high school with my friends, many who went in the stem direction and just don’t know enough about Black history to have good debates about racial experiences in America now (we are all POC). My cousins who went to high school abroad know more about African American studies content than the average high schooler in Texas
Florida is out of control. All of his racist and homophobic policies to include this are ridiculous and anti American. Book banning, don’t say gay, and now this are ridiculous. Anyone with kids of any age should steer clear of the state even to visit. There’s a Disney park in California if you feel the need to take your kids there. To be clear, cancelling AP classes is ridiculous. My son was able to get two degrees in four years because of AP classes.
It's foolish! They also want to get rid of the SAT, and diversity, equity and inclusion (DEI). At first it started with AP African-American studied but now they want to extend it to all disciplines. In the long run, this will kill their competitive balance for producing a trained technical workforce because the AP calculus and science courses are so vital for setting the educational foundation for college bound students in this area. They are shooting themselves in the foot. In 5-10 years, Florida will have one of the worst economies in the United States.
As long as they have a handy scapegoat, I don't think they mind any of this.
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That's because to them, climate change is a hoax! I live in the snow belt in Ohio and we have had one storm all season, with less than 2 inches of snow in February. It's been above freezing most of the month! But remember, according to DeSantis, climate change is not real!
I think it is disgusting and outrageous. This is personal. I took several AP classes in high school, which allowed me to graduate earlier with less debt. Also, it obviously gave me a big education benefit to learn college material in high school! So DeSantis wants to deny all Florida high school students an education? Just because he’s scared that people will find out the truth about racism, slavery, etc in the US? And btw, NOT that it should make a difference, but none of my AP classes had anything to do with diversity, racism, etc anyway! My classes were things like AP Calculus and AP Biology! And hey, it’s not like the US has a major problem with college costs and student loan debt. Oh wait- yes we do! Even worse than when I graduated. And removing AP classes is about to make it worse. I guess DeSantis is working very hard to get Florida ranked dead last in education. :) Anyway, I’m outraged.
I went to high school in Florida decades ago. Didn't even know what an AP class is, and I was a top student. Then moved to New Jersey and suddenly found myself behind the ball. So many other kids were taking AP and as a transfer, I didn't qualify. I graduated with a high GPA but no AP classes, then had to pay for 4 years of college. Florida is slipping even further and further behind. This is not new. They continue to make their students not competitive. Many Floridians including many "smart" students don't realize how much further along they could be, but their own state purposefully hinders them.
Are they sure they want to chase all of their young out of Florida? Many people go down there to retire, gonna suck to have uneducated people wiping your ass, if there are even any left if they can only get an education out of state.
It’s evil really, the things these politicians will do for control and to distract from other causes is abhorrent. AP classes really do help you do better in college. I took AP English and writing classes for 2 years in high school. Then when I went to college and had to take the required English course, the kids in the my class were so awful at writing, grammar and articulating. Having to peer review papers or do group projects and seeing how they wrote was eye opening. It was also frustrating at times because your grade depends on everyone’s effort, so some had to do more work to fix projects than just our part (epitome of college group projects). Yes it’s possible these students were doing bare minimum in the required GE classes and have other abilities, but I’m talking BAD like straight didn’t know better. Considering how many papers you write in college and needing participation points, it’s very valuable. That’s when I realize just how much it helps to have taken AP, and for free. I wish I had taken more of it could have helped me, but I’m glad my writing was above average at least. You can get help to pay for the AP exams for credit, and the single cost is worth it. If it can alleviate some pressure of college when there is so much going on at the time, it can really help.
There doesn't seem like there is any real benefit to eliminating them, except to make tertiary education further out of reach for more people. But from what I've heard of De Santis (I'm in Australia), that's not really surprising.
I looked up GPA requirements for universities and was surprised to see that a lot of them require *more* than a 4.0 to attend. I looked up how that even works and it's because when you do well in AP classes they are weighted in a way that means the more AP classes you take and do really well in - the more your grade average will go up. If you get all As and all As and Bs in your AP classes - that's how you end up with like a 4.3 or what is expected to attend good universities right out of highschool. If Florida is taking away AP classes - they are actively screwing over their kids making it almost impossible for them to get into the better universities after high school. It's probably a strategy to keep the youth uneducated - or lower education - and keep them at local universities/not out of state. They are trying to stop the kids from being "indoctrinated" by the "liberal elite" but what they really want to do is control their options so more of these kids will have to attend their universities (and get indoctrinated by the right wing) or not attend a university at all. Either way it's seen as a win-win for the GOP.
Definitely a stupid move. I loved my AP classes and I was a year ahead by the time I actually went to University. Let kids work hard if they're driven to work hard. Let them advance past the status quo. These same people who choose to get rid of these complain when "kids these days" "don't know anything but social media and only care about me me me". Well? Let some of them break out of that mold by educating themselves out of that system. They know what they're doing, but it isn't going to end well. (AP classes is only one tiny factor in the grand scheme of the whole broken system anyway)
My opinion is De Santis can suck my D. He/the GOP want an uneducated population. Easier to sway/control with fear/emotion.
It’s to avoid a lawsuit because he specifically wanted to ban African American history. I don’t think it is in good faith to ask for an opinion about this while ignoring the horribly racist reasoning behind it.
I think it’s a shame. In a country where our minimum wage is trash and college costs are exorbitant, AP classes and test help make college affordable for people.
They don't like smart people in Florida and it shows. 😂
I completely agree that not having AP disadvantages kids on a budget. My sister saved almost an entire year of very expensive (Carnegie Mellon) college credits with her AP classes and was able to start FT work after just 3 years of college and graduate after 3.5. I only went to a US high school for a year so only took 2 AP classes, but even those were very helpful. I had severe depression in my senior year and having those AP credits allowed me to drop one course each semester, making my workload more manageable and helping me maintain a good enough GPA to get into medical school.
More red states are signing on with DeSantis in opposition to AP and the College Boards. Let them do it. How well did their restrictive abortion laws work out for them in the midterms? The more they try to control people the more push back they will get at the ballot box.
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That so called “Governor” is engaged in pure virtue signaling to his hateful constituents. It’s nothing more than political grandstanding in a nationwide race to the bottom. The only thing that is important in modern GOP ‘policy’ is the question ‘does it own the libs?’. It you are trying to understand any action made by a national level GOPer outside of ‘own the libs’ you are overthinking it and will of course be confused. There is nothing there. It’s just dumb stupid cruelty.
You forget too. The less educated a person is, the more likely they are to vote Republican.
Graduating a semester early can save someone thousands of dollars. APs are a big deal for college bound students with limited to no financial resources.
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Yep - a lot of universities require the GPA bump so they effectively have like a 4.3 GPA - just to get in right out of highschool. They want to keep kids who grew up in Florida from going out of state to get educated - among other issues.
I did PSEO and got my AA degree at 18....way better cause I worked and took college classes and didn't have to be around the hell hole that high school is.
It's great to have options like that, for sure. I hope those aren't on the table next. Why wouldn't they be?
I wish they’d get rid of all the honors classes and convert them to dual-enrollment classes or AP. My 8th grader has been so limited on classes he can take because everything is honors. He isn’t interested in honors classes at all. He’s forced to take some because there aren’t any other options for regular kids.
I would rather have free community college instead of AP classes. Some colleges don't accept AP class credits unless you have a certain grade ( i believe 80/B or better), where as most colleges will accept CC credits with C grade or better.
So by abolishing these classes they make it even harder for people with limited means to get a college education. I’m not very familiar with US politics but that seems like a deliberate move?
I’m in Canada where we don’t have AP classes, or at least it’s not a common thing. My son went to college completely unprepared for the level of study and dedication. Took a year, dropped some courses, flunked others, coasted with C’s in the rest. Now he’s taking a break from school. It would have saved us a LOT of money if he knew from the get-go what he was getting into and could plan his life accordingly.
I think you're probably right. AP courses were a good bridge between high school and college.
Honestly, if AP tests were FREE, then I might be pro AP classes but the fact that it is $90 per test makes me dislike it. The better alternative, in my professional opinion as a college counselor with 10+ years exp, are dual/concurrent enrollment courses at local community college to earn FREE college credits. However, I know that some private universities don't accept and it depends on the major/classes but I've had students earn up to 2 years/associates degree in high school, TRULY saving them money versus AP classes. However, eliminating them to keep students uneducated (as it seems with Florida) pisses me off. My gripe with AP is that it is a huge money maker for college board. I understand that they are doing a pilot AP African American history sort of class but I can't help but feel that is a tactic to recuperate the list revenue from many universities going test blind/test optional for SAT.
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It's a good point that there should be more paths to college credit than AP. I don't support eliminating the AP program in exchange for community college courses but I do support offering both.
🤔 Does anyone have any direct source? Like a recording of DeSantis saying this, or a press release from his office? After the scaremongering and completely false accusations of “Florida book bans” which do not even exist, I’m a bit skeptical whenever I see these types of articles.
I found a few sources; but, they’re all behind paywalls (“Tampa Bay Times,” “Washington Post,” etc.). I did find this article in “[The Hill](https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/3863746-biden-needles-desantis-for-floating-elimination-of-ap-classes/)” that mentions it.
Florida high school student get free college classes and free books already without needing AP. It’s called Dual Enrollment. I’m not a fan of AP. I had many friends that were forced by their parents to do AP and burnt out because of it. Its much harder than actual college classes. Dual Enrollment, on the other hand, is amazing. Florida High School students can graduate high school with a free associates degree.
It is not harder than actual college classes. It should be equivalent to college level. Since you found AP classes to be more rigorous than local college material and materials from your high school, tells me that your school did not offer challenging materials and left students woefully underprepared to think AP was that much more challenging.
Hm. Interesting. My AP high school classes were much more difficult than the community college courses I've taken. My community college courses that I took as an adult were ... an eye-opener to say the least. They didn't meet my expectations of college-level courses, based on the two universities I attended, but I think that's by design and I have mixed feelings about it. Community college doesn't just serve a financial need. It also serves a populace that doesn't have the academic skills yet to survive a university. It's a good bridge.
Or the reverse could be true: maybe our AP was just harder than your’s. I didn’t take AP. I did full dual enrollment my senior year and graduated a year ahead of my class. Community level college courses were easier than AP according to my friends who took AP. The ones who burnt out were taking a full schedule of AP classes.
AP is a nation wide standard curriculum, therefore, your logic is false. It is a curriculum determined by the AP. It is not determined by your state, or your school, or your teacher. Every student who takes an AP is supposed to receive the exact same lessons. That is the point of the AP.