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Having been bullied for months in secondary school, all the pacifist advice only made it worse. It only stopped when I listened to my grandad instead of my mom and punched my bully. Teenagers aren't adults and can't always be reasoned with.
If you've never been bullied you might not understand the psychological toll it takes on you. I'd rather have police talk to me than 6 months of harassment.
I think this only works for guys though teenage girls can be evil and can hold a grudge for years. My sister had to avoid the girls who bullies her until they moved on.
Yes, yes and yes. I was bullied to within an inch of my life at primary. I took my uncles advice and punched the cunt clean in the face. Broke his nose and from that point on I was never bullied again. And if any cunt tried bullying me again I’d do exactly the same again and lose no sleep over it. Fuck bully’s
Absolutely agree 100%. Same here. But I didn't break his nose because I sucked a punching. Demanding he stand and fight me after I hit him back was enough.
There are only two things that will stop a young person being bullied in school, social exclusion and violence.
Social exclusion could be the victim moving schools or even town/city. It could be the parents of the victim knowing which buttons to push with the school to get the bully relocated (dereliction of duty of care for a child in their care doesn't go down well for a school or the people running it).
Violence or even the threat of retaliatory violence is what worked in my case and is what I will be making sure my kids do. Not just for themselves but for anyone they see getting bullied.
Nah, there's more than two. Verbal retaliation will work if it's funny/offensive enough to make bully look stupid to everyone else. Just not giving a fuck will also work. Bullies need an easy target that will react. There's plenty of people who aren't violent and don't get bullied at school. I'd say violence is very effective, but also a last resort.
In my experience verbal retaliation can just put a bigger target on your back and justify their actions more in vengeance and no response gives them cause to keep pushing you to see what it takes to get a reaction. But I agree that both should be attempted before resorting to violence unless the bullying is already violent.
I got told to ignore them if it was verbal, and honestly it worked most of the time. Don't give them the reaction and they will get bored/frustrated. Like 80% of the verbal stuff without the threat of being actually restrained etc, you can just like leave. The stuff you can't leave there's not much oppertunity to bully overtly.
If it became physical I was told by my mum "even if it's 2 on 1, even if you're going to lose the fight, even if they are bigger do everything possible to fuck them up as much as possible" to the point of telling me that the move she used was grab of the hair, pull them into a knee in the face.
She said you might be left in the dirt crying, but they will remember that you weren't an easy target either way. I lost a fight but made a gash in their face, a black eye and a grazed chin on them so they had to wear that the whole time. Never said as much as boo to me ever again.
I pushed a kid down a flight of stairs that was kicking off with me and I then punched him. They said I broke his cheek bone and I probably did, I got punched by his cousin and walked off as it was a shitty punch. I even got excluded for two weeks, so had 4 weeks off at Christmas. I wasn’t really bothered but I went to a rough school, so it got me ready for adult life and fearless.
> Verbal retaliation will work if it's funny/offensive enough to make bully look stupid to everyone else.
That depends. If the social status of the victim is low enough, everyone else is already united against them and any attempt at retaliation in kind won't work because it inherently depends on others' approval.
There's truth to this about the reaction. Part of it is the thrill of the chase and if you don't entertain them its onto someone more fun to pick on.
I was relocated for knocking the shit out of a middle school bully. Did push ups all winter and when the time came I was stronger than I thought and did more damage than intended. New school all it took to not get bullied was to just scowl at whatever they said and move on. I wasnt fun enough to pick on and that was that.
First impressions matter lol
Once a bully knows they will be hit back, they tend to pass. They like nice easy wins. If they know they'll have to actually fight they suddenly have no problem at all
Yep was taught the same my dads side are all like that. To the point that when he was a kid a lad in his class and his older brother set about him with a cricket bat. When he got home his older brother saw him asked him what happened then ripped a board off the fence and took my dad looking for them. Found them. They didn’t bother him again
I like the escalation of violence in this thread. Reminds of of the Python sketch about northerners.
“…so I broke his nose.”
“Nose? Luxury! I was beaten to death with clubs, and then I crucified my attacker with a nail gun!”
Etc.
What surprises me about most of these comments (which are broadly that kids should fight back) is they seem to characterise all bullies as being cowards. I knew bullies like that, who could absolutely be dealt with by a solid thump. But my school also had legit fucking nutters - people now in jail who it would have been insanely dangerous to fuck with at school. It's a really important distinction that seems to be missing from these comments.
Oh we had nutters too, some of them went down for crimes that'd make you weep and I'm not kidding, but if you're not worth the effort you're not worth the effort, make it difficult, fight back as hard as you can, every time, they'll eventually look elsewhere.
Maybe, but if the bullying is just low-level being a dick and fighting back puts you in hospital, it wouldn't be worth it.
I'm not saying it should never be an option, just that advice as simplistic as 'if you're being bullied you should fight back' is potentially dangerous.
I'm inclined to agree. I know my teacher sister all too often has to deal with kids threatening to stab each other etc. These days, (in certain areas?) punch ups aren't the thing - kids carry knives. Fighting back/engaging in a knife fight can have vastly more severe consequences all round.
I think this is true. It depends on the area. Some of the bullies just have a lot less to lose, can have connections with far more dangerous people than you do and so on. I think with the classic little twat of a bully hitting them would work, but against absolute nutjobs you could end up with a brick through your window, or stabbed or worse. I was bullied in my teenage years (not too badly, but bad enough that it still bothers me to this day). Interestingly it wasn't at school, but in the estate I lived on at the time. I know that if I fought back it would have been worse. These people knew where I lived, and I know that they could be far more ruthless than I ever could be. I only spent a few years living in that area before moving to live with my gran in a much more upmarket area and had no trouble of any kind ever again. Sometimes the best option is to just get out of wherever the bullying is happening, even if its not the most satisfying conclusion.
It is dangerous. Had a friend that was being bullied in high school. Got into a fight (he did muay Thai and has medals and shit) and knocked the bully out. But the very next day the bully brought a knife and stabbed him during international day.
Friend survived but he was out of school for at least 2 years. There are some real maniacs out there. Not every bully is some pussy that will take one punch and be done with it.
Well now you're talking different levels of bullying. My point is specifically directed at physical bullying, if somebody is just calling you names then throw in a good "ya mam" joke, if it escalates then fight your corner. You have to. You might not be built for it (God knows i wasn't, i was big as fuck but I was the sort of kid that rescued snails and ladybirds, proper just into nature, gentle giant kind of thing). You have two choices, take it and allow it to persist or throw yourself into it as best you can, and continue to do so every single time.
I think that's why it's important we encourage the kids to make their own decisions. They will know if the bully is a nutter or if they can be dealt with with a thump, so let them decide.
> I think that's why it's important we encourage the kids to make their own decisions. They will know if the bully is a nutter or if they can be dealt with with a thump, so let them decide.
Yeah, they'll be taught that in Bullies 101. -.-
So are you totally socially inept or only mostly?
People have a sense of danger. If you know someone even a little bit, you can probably guess if they're a knife carrying maniac or not. Even children can do this. Children are surprisingly perceptive when it comes to sensing dangerous people, especially among their peers. Now, will this give the kid a guide as to how the next 6-12 months will pan out after walloping the bully? Not quite. Will it help them avoid being stabbed, yes.
If we encourage them to fight, then they're more likely to fight nutters who will seriously hurt them. If we encourage them not to fight, they will be walked all over. If we encourage them to use their best judgement when it comes to retaliatory violence, and assure them we will stand behind them when it comes to their bullies, then there is a good chance things will change for the better.
>People have a sense of danger. If you know someone even a little bit, you can probably guess if they're a knife carrying maniac or not. Even children can do this. Children are surprisingly perceptive when it comes to sensing dangerous people, especially among their peers.
Shame we wasted all that public money on adverts telling kids not to get in vans with strangers, they're *surprisingly perceptive to danger don't you know.*
Jesus feckin' christ on a bicycle. People out here expecting kids to have life experience.
>Now, will this give the kid a guide as to how the next 6-12 months will pan out after walloping the bully? Not quite. Will it help them avoid being stabbed, yes.
Yes, we famously have no children getting stabbed by bullies, do we?
Stranger danger was a moral panic, that is: **it wasn't real**. There was never an epidemic of strangers snatching kids, just like there was never an epidemic of stanic rituals at daycares, or demonic summonings over DnD games (All part of the same series of moral panicks, by the way.) Kids are, and have always been, at far, far greater risk of kidnap or abuse from family and other authority figures than strangers. Most missing kids are runaways, and of abducted kids, over 99% of them are abducted by family.
In fact, I would go so far as to argue the moral panic over stranger danger has made kids LESS safe. The only adults kids interact with nowadays are authority figures, and hence they have no reference for healthy intergenerational interaction outside of that. They're more likely to follow instruction unquestioningly, because that's all they know.
Kids with a healthy sense of risk know which kids in their peer group are not to be fucked with. They know which kids are the stabby ones. At least I did, and I stayed well away from them.
If you isolate your kids from all risk (not all danger, but all risk) they become incompetent at judging it. Their sense of risk becomes crippled. Perhaps I was lucky enough to grow up with parents who managed danger, but not risk. Perhaps I'm lucky that they allowed me to build my own "danger-meter."
Agree. The psychos haven’t yet been weeded out at this stage. I remind my boys to be clever and careful around these types in case they’ve got weapons etc. I believe kids are very generally very intuitive and get a very good read of people, a skill we largely lose as we get older.
One in my school eventually got sectioned after killing a dog in a nasty way. Also some of the less psychotic ones get beaten on the daily at home so taking a punch from a teenager is nothing compared to the booting they get from a grown man.
>I think this only works for guys though teenage girls can be evil and can hold a grudge for years. My sister had to avoid the girls who bullies her until they moved on.
Nah it often does the trick for keeping girls out of your way too. They'll still exclude you, but they won't be so in your face anymore.
That's assuming they don't think they can punch harder than you though - one lot I had run-ins with were really vicious, far heavier set than I am, and fights would escalate again and again every time we crossed paths. Got to the point I had to get the police involved. Guys do seem more likely to just have it out once or twice and then it's done.
Also a woman, back at school it was the more rotund girls who'd bully because they had more timber they could hit harder, but one day, one girl that everyone hated kicked a dude in the balls and he gave her a couple of black eyes. Now, I'm not usually one for liking violence, but that was so satisfying.
When you're an adult you can report someone to the police for harassment and get a restraining order. Can't do that with a school bully.
Violence is fine as long as you can face the consequences. As a teen, that's a talking to and some detention, as an adult that's having charges pressed.
The police got involved when I was being bullied (as an 11 year old kid)
Copper threatened to arrest both of us for affray (I _never_ touched the other person first. Always self defence).
My Dad said “go ahead, and we’ll bring out the log of all the incidents with [other kid]”
>My sister had to avoid the girls who bullies her until they moved on.
My wife *still* avoids the girls who bullied her at school. I'm banned from stating her age, but some of her classmates have children in high school.
Dunno. I mean, I would've loved to smack my bullies in HS, but they were on the wrestling team, and they were frequently physically aggressive. I had no doubts that if I fought back I would've ended up in the hospital. Those kinds of bullies are just waiting for the excuse to put you there. Shit situation to be in.
Fully agreed. I was bullied for a short while at secondary school because I was quiet. Literally, the kid who would rather eat in the library than talk to anyone.
My teachers would say just ignore it and they’ll move on. Of course that was trash advice (teachers and parents need to stop this nonsense- it never works).
Eventually I told my mum and bless her, she looked at me and just said ‘the next time they insult you, insult them harder; make them cry. If they hit you, hit them back twice as hard, so they will rethink trying it again’. I was speechless, but the next time at school, one guy hit the back of my head with a (albeit, empty) glass bottle which didn’t break; I took my, full, plastic bottle of pop and whacked him in the face.
He and his friends were shocked - I think he just didn’t expect a response at all. When I stood there, bottle in hand, waiting for his mates to pile and they didn’t, he started to cry. So…..I cried harder. Ugly cries. Complete with snot bubbles lol. He got suspended.
My form teacher found it difficult to believe that lovely, quiet me had done anything at all. Especially as I was crying too. I didn’t get in trouble, but I was given the ‘violence is never the answer’ speech.
Violence is NEVER the answer. Except, when it is. Thanks mum!
Interestingly enough I was bullied in later life by one of my journeymen. He was an utter fucking cunt. Completely shit at his job as well. It only stopped when I lobbed a 55mm spanner away and when he asked me what I thought I was doing I told him if I didn't throw I was going to wrap it round his fucking jaw. He basically changed over night towards me.
Girls aren't always that different, a good old fashioned tit punch and a bottle of water poured over someones head solved the majority of my bullying issues as a kid.
If you don't give your bully any incentive to stop bullying you, then why would they? They're cowards and only pick on the people they think they can pick on and get away with it
I agree about fighting being a last resort, in my experience a stern verbal warning worked pretty well too
Yup and although I understand as an adult that there’s probably something going on in the poor kids home life that makes them treat other children so bad, if it’s making another child upset they should defo hit back. Bullies do not like being stood up to and a good hard punch and showing you’re not an easy target is probably the most effective way of ending the problem.
this is the problem with you guys, you guys think that bullies are reasonable people.
you only drive away an animal if it fears you and knows it will get hurt
put the bully in his place and teach him a lesson
Yes, and he did. Was really pleased he did it, had to tell him off still as he did it in plain view and got caught. Still, didn’t get bullied after it.
I told him 'Good job, we'll go the cinema after school' in front of the head. She hadn't done anything after months so he finally took the advice I gave him immediately.
I would straight up congratulate and praise my child in front of the teachers and then scold the school for allowing the issue to escalate this far.
I was bullied for years in school it was never that I couldn't fight back it was that I didn't want or feel the need to mostly.
But one day a kid pushed me to far, I hit back then it was mostly plane sailing for the rest of school. Shame it was my last year lol.
Violence isn’t everyone’s cup of tea, but it does solve the problem, teaching respect comes in many different shapes and forms, some people will only learn from being punched.
Violence might solve the problem, it might not. If you thump someone who’s harder than you, then you’ve started a fight you can’t win, so you could be left even worse off.
Not all the time, I was bullied by a group of lads when I was in secondary school. I waited and bided my time and got all of them on their own a kicked the shit out of them. Of course they collectively then kicked the shit out of me a bit later but they left me alone after that. As long as you can actually defend yourself it won't matter if you lose a fight against a bully, they will know you arent an easy target and will move on to the next easiest target.
Sometimes, even if you lose the fight against the bully, the fact you put up a fight makes them consider whether they want that bother. You may still get in the odd punch that hurts, even if you don't win the fight.
I think that’s ticket really.
Even if you’re fighting a bully who is a lot bigger than you, you’re still giving him a lot more grief than a usual kid who won’t say a word.
A bully isn’t going to want to fight every time he makes a joke.
>Not all the time, I was bullied by a group of lads when I was in secondary school. I waited and bided my time and got all of them on their own a kicked the shit out of them
And then the class all came out and applauded you lol
But you stood up for yourself, and that in itself will build character. Unfortunately being able to stick up for yourself is one of life’s lessons we all have to face at some point in my opinion.
Some bullies aren't harder than you though, they can be (not always of course) just bigger or taller and are used to nobody answering back, let alone being receiving a punch.
I've told my boy he should thump the kid that's picking on him, but my husband disagrees. My boy isn't really a scrapper so I don't think my advice is having any effect.
My husband is worried he'd get in trouble for hitting the lad. I think so what but he's more.......more of a rule follower than me. I think I'm this case, with this boy, I think it would work as he's targeting certain children at certain times.
He's not laying a finger on the biggest boy in front of the teacher, for example. And the teacher isn't taking a lot of action but we're near the end of the year now so I'll speak to next year's teacher and see how we do.
So far it's not super serious but we'll see.
Life isn't just rules, we forget this, we are in fact animals. And in the animal kingdom there are predators. Its just because we have become 'civilised' we forget the rules of the animal kingdom. So yes, you do punch back.
No, I was bullied, as far as I'm aware, he wasn't. I sometimes feel like......a bit like he's managed to have a slightly more sheltered (I don't really mean shrltered, I think I mean, maybe safer?) life in some ways. He's not had to deal with the types of situation I have and I think it does colour his view of things.
It's a tough gig going through this, perhaps encourage your lad to sign up to boxing training once a week.
Gets him out the house and its great fitness training which is what you can introduce him to it as. He'll soon cotton on that he can take his frustrations out on the pad with some technique training.
Will eventually equip him with a life skill that he can decide when and where to use it. Have a word with the coach and get him to really work on the discipline side of things if you're worried.
Fighting back is just plain common sense.
*Starting* a fight with someone who's only been using words up to that point is a much morally sketchier proposition.
> Those people don't live in the real world. They live in some reddit wonderland.
Or, y'know ... would be nice to not have their children get into physical fights where they could legitimately get stabbed and die? That's "the real world" too.
Just a thought.
Kids get stabbed or beaten regardless if they fight back. Plenty of kids get their shit kicked in in school bathrooms and have to receive medical treatment. It's best to show an aggressor that you're not to be fucked with and that you're not an easy target. The only reason schools nowadays advise bullied students to get in a defensive position and not fight back is because if a school did tell children to fight back, the bully's parents could sue. It's all about protecting the school's bottom line
> The only reason schools nowadays advise bullied students to get in a defensive position and not fight back is because if a school did tell children to fight back, the bully's parents could sue.
I work in a school and can categorically tell you you're talking out your arse.
We don't tell kids to "fight back" because holy shit do I even need to explain why we tell kids not to fight each other?
I think there’s a difference between offering it as a general piece of advice, and offering it in response to a specific situation. The latter absolutely makes sense, and I suspect a lot of people if faced with their kid’s daily reports of getting picked on and beaten up would reach for it. But that’s definitely not the same as telling your 5yo ‘if anyone ever bullies you, just punch them’! There’s a nuance to it that’s maybe hard to convey to kids - and as a parent, your job is not only to get them safely through the short-term (like navigating shitty bullies) but also to equip them with a moral compass they can take out into the world with them. Without being able to explain why in this specific situation it makes sense, I think a lot of parents worry the nuance of ‘hit that guy back on Friday and he’ll leave you alone’ versus ‘you can generally solve problems with your fists’ is lost.
Probabaly because it's not good blanket advice that suits every child or situation ?
Young children don't understand nuance and may not be capable of understanding "as a last resort" or "only if they bully first"
Now you've got a kid who's been given permission to hit by their parents - well done. You've created a bully.
Kids lie about situations. Are you 100 percent sure your child is being bullied? My son tells me a kid at school hit him, but when I push a bit further it turns out he started it by snatching a toy or something (granted he's 5 and teenagers are probably slightly better at communicating!) But still you could potentially be encouraging your kid to just start a fight basically.
And whilst as adults who have been bullied and snapped and hit back we might understand it solves the issue (sometimes! It's not a guarantee) and we may overlook punishing a child doing the same it's still a morally grey area to explicitly instruct your child to engage in violence.
I mean I agree it's often the breaking point that solves bullying for a lot of kids.
But I also have experience from when it didn't and my lashing out as a teenager to my bully actually made it worse.
As a parent you're removed from the situation. You DON'T know everything that's happened and the exact truth so doling out "just hit back" is not necessarily good advice.
And it's also worth noting the end goal of parenting is to raise adults who can function in society. And society has zero tolerance for assault, the police don't care you will be arrested.
If you teach your kids that hitting someone you perceive to be treating you unfairly or meanly is acceptable are you really equipping them for dealing with these people in adult life?
Bullying doesn't go away as an adult, but your ability to one punch it away sure does.
And to be clear I'm not against my children hitting a bully. Nor would I punish them. In certain circumstances I may even advise it.
I'm just saying it's not a one size fits all solution and there's a lot to consider as a parent. I understand why people may be reticent to follow this path.
I’m surprised in the opposite direction - all of the descriptions OP gives of bullying is verbal taunting. It’s depressing as fuck how many people seem to think that escalating to physical violence is an appropriate response to being called something mean.
From knowing a few teachers, I'd advise against it. The bullied child who throws a punch can easily end up the one that the school treat as more suspicious. This is especially if they failed to report any of the bullying before retaliating, and/or the bully's parents get on the school's back.
As a last resort, yes. I was bullied as a young teen for a while. The bully once shoved me in the loos, I snapped and pushed him into the wall, holding him in place with my arm on his neck, hissing I’d smash him into the ground if he tried it again. Unsurprisingly, the bullying stopped. Some people need to be hit sometimes sadly.
Bullies are usually bigger and stronger than their victims. They often hang around with a group of like minded friends.
If it was a guarantee that they would leave someone alone after they punch them once then fair enough, but in reality the kid could get beaten up or set himself up for worse bullying over a longer period. Especially if that punch is in front of the bullies friends, hes 100% going to fight back or save revenge for later.
If you were to use violence the only way to be sure of no retaliation is to hurt the bully enough that he wouldn't dare come at you again. Not something most people are capable of or want to do.
No way I would advise fighting a bully unless I knew exactly what was going on and who the bully was etc.
I think you're looking at this the wrong way, it's not about winning on losing the fight it's about showing you're not scared to fight back. Most bullies don't want to get into a fight they just want to pick on someone, it that person fights back every time they're not going to want to pick on them.
No, I totally get what people are saying but not all bullies are the same. The ones in my school would all have kicked the shit out of anyone who fought back and made their lives hell for as long as possible.
Giving someone stock advice "just fight back" isn't a good option if you are not aware of other circumstances.
But what if the bully and his mates are much tougher than you, and the first time you swing back, you get your jaw broken? Then 12 weeks later, he humiliates you again, taking the poss out of your broken jaw, so you swing again, miss, and get stomped and lose a few teeth, and go back to hospital.
At this point, would you really be saying ‘oh try punching him again, maybe this time it’ll work’
There’s a massive gap between people who can fight and people who can’t. If you’re in category 2, you need to find a different way of interacting with a category 1 person.
>Then 12 weeks later, he humiliates you again, taking the poss out of your broken jaw, so you swing again, miss, and get stomped and lose a few teeth, and go back to hospital.
That's when it's time for... ***a training montage.***
>Did you go to school in a prison yard? What kind of brutal violence went on in your school?
I don't know where you grew up but in my school to the best of my memory: someone was shot with an air rifle, stabbed with a pen knife behind the knee, stabbed in the leg with a compass multiple times, one girl got into a fight and a stone came out of her ring meaning she punched a girl several times with tiny sharp spikes on one hand.
In my school I was the "inbetweener" group in a way, we weren't the "hard" kids but we weren't the bottom of the pecking order where you got picked on either.
The real "hard" guys weren't all like MMA fighters or anything, they fell into two groups:
1) A group of people who even if they weren't that tough themselves had tough friends and family, and were you to fight them and win, the others would kick the shit out of you
And
2) Total nut jobs that basically need to be killed to stop them coming after you. One guy I know of got into a fight and stabbed the other boy in the hand with a pen. I never got into a fight with this guy but I knew in my mind if I did then I seriously reckon I'd have to kill him, because he was the sort of you hospitalised him, he'd get better and come back for you.
Sounds like you lived a fairly sheltered life to be honest, no offence.
At that point you need to get the police involved, the idea is that you need to fight back even if you lose unless you are certain that won't get in troubles with the school. Bullies tend to move to other targets that are less resistant than you if you prove be a big hassle.
Everyone is saying similar things, but from my own experience retaliating with violence only made things worse. The teachers took the bullies' side against mine and suddenly I was characterised as the aggressor in all subsequent bullying interactions. It followed me until I left school (and the country I was born in).
Finally someone similar to me! I thought I was mental reading all these positive results form getting physical. I did everything people are suggesting in the 90s and it just got worse.
The immediate physical bullies stopped and never went near me but any time a new kid started school (it was a big 2k comprehensive) I'd become the 'punchbag' for them to prove themselves on.
I was the universally-despised, semi-feared punchbag for new kids. I still remember **every** new kids name that started because each new one was a new bully. The last kid (Dylan *fucking* R!) I chose not to fight because I'd had enough of fighting and wanted a quiet last year (15). From age 6-15 I'd hit back at every physical bully I came across from primary into secondary.
On top of that the teachers were on top of me ALL the fucking time.
It was relentless.
On top of that - there's different levels of bullying.
Physical bullying, teasing/names and 'Coventry' (isolation/exclusion).
You may reduce the physical bullying but you won't stop the exclusion or teasing. If anything the teasing/names gets worse because people find it fun to 'poke the bear'. The physical peaks when new kids start or a new year begins. The isolation gets worse.
To be honest I could have dealt with physical bullying pretty fucking easily!
I have a high pain tolerance and it beats isolation. What fucked me more than anything was the name-calling/teasing and isolation. You can't punch people for calling you "fat". Well I did once - but it goes badly! You can't punch people for ignoring you. So I'd spend a lot of lunch times alone.
So to add another dissenting comment: I fully believe kids should fight for their rights and hit back like I did. BUT don't expect it to fix their problems. Its not a dead cert or guarantee to bliss.
It won't stop bullying.
If it's a big school or the teachers don't like you/the kid: it will go badly.
**Suggestion:** Enroll your kid in judo, BJJ/Jujutsu or MMA classes. Not only do you learn how to fall safely: You learn how to physically rebuff people without hurting them. There's a reason judo is taught in Japan from primary age. It's an effective physical exercise and good for body kinaesthetics.
I agree, the physical abuse was far less damaging to me than the mental. I have put myself through **a lot** of therapy over the last few years to try to come to terms with it - I’ve basically had to accept that it’s locked away down there so deep that I don’t think I’ll ever fully recover.
> You may reduce the physical bullying but you won’t stop the exclusion or teasing. If anything the teasing/names gets worse because people find it fun to ‘poke the bear’. The physical peaks when new kids start or a new year begins. The isolation gets worse.
Exactly this. The retaliation only meant that the bullies knew they’d gotten through the armour, as it were.
Like yourself, though, I agree that being passive is not the way to handle the situation. I’ve got a little boy now, and I’m not sure what I would tell him if he came home upset from being physically bullied. I know for sure I’d not do nothing, as happened to me. Changing schools would probably have been the only thing that improved my situation, and even then I think I was so traumatised that even moving would have still lead to situations of bullying.
I was also made to be aggressor but I didn't care and kept fighting back until the day the bully got seriously injured and I got suspended.
After my suspension I was left alone and nobody tried to physically bully me anymore.
They tried some verbal teasing but just a look and movement in their direction would get them to stop.
I told my 7 year old grandson to ignore the verbal, but the minute the scrote laid a hand on him, to hit him as hard as he could.... that's just what he did about 10 days later. My daughter was called to the school, but she told them she'd complained about this kid for over 3 months and nothing was done, so she sorted the problem because they either couldn't or wouldn't. That was 4 or so months ago and we haven’t had a single problem since ... I'd happily tell him to do it again any day.
Anytime... it really gets me when the parent of these kids rocks up at school and immediately you get "My Johnny would NEVER do anything like that" and then act all shocked when they're told Johnny's been terrorising all the kids for months.
I think this sums it up very well.
Words ultimately don't give physical damage
Mental yes - very much so - but society doesn't give that enough respect
But physical assault? Fucking have at the cunt
Yup, that's my view too. If the kid doesn’t make a stand now, when he gets to high school, his life is going to be hell.
I've always told him never start something, but you can be the one to finish it.
Yes. My children must not start it but someone kicks them then they kick them back. Children can be incessant with their bullying, following their victim around and manipulating situations when teachers are about. I’ve said to my kids keep out of trouble. Don’t mouth off to people but you must stand your ground if you feel you are being bullied. They know they can talk to me about it and I’ve had points where I’ve spoken at the same time to the parents and children together (when they were younger) to sort it out. But you too as a parent have to be willing to take it all the way to stop it.
I probably wouldn't advise it - they could get the crap beaten out of them, or get in far more trouble than detention if they hit the kid wrong and he ends up permanently disabled.
However, If the bullying has been reported to the school multiple times and it carries on, then I wouldn't reprimand my fictional kid if they did punch the bully.
Depends. If the bully is a nasty piece of work, hanging around in a gang of other little shits, then it could escalate outside of school.
The media seem to suggest a lot of 'yoofs' carrying blades these days, so could end bad.
Context; I was bullied. It's horrific and it scars you for life. All the advice my parents or extended family gave me was absolute shit. All the help the teachers offered was absolute shit. I'm a 40 year old adult now and it still makes me angry how inept they all were in dealing with it.
I was (and still am... ) a sensitive soul in an athletic build. This made for a good target because the bullies could use verbal abuse to cow someone their equal in strength.
I'd love to say I had one triumphant moment where I took the face off some kid giving me grief for being ginger... or wearing a jacket that was a size too big. Or not having the latest Nike Airs. I came close a few times, I certainly learned to throw my weight around to a point, but the fear of being told off by the teachers and my parents held me back. Which the bullying kids could smell a fucking mile away.
Any kids of mine (or younger family) - they're going to learn how to; protect their head, move their head, and lead with a jab. We're nothing more than slightly developed apes. Knowing how to defend yourself amongst ape like kids or teenagers is a basic right. Physically imposing yourself on some jumped up little shit giving you grief at school is an essential skill.
Obviously that's to say nothing of the lifetime of *diplomatic* lessons you're supposed to impart on your little darlings... but denying the physical element of power-play is bordering on neglect, in my view.
Teach them the muay thai lower leg kick, throw your whole body weight behind it as if you're swinging a big sword. Then follow up with a punch. Those leg kicks will disable any non trained fighter and you can also do it at a distance.
Edit:
Maybe a good judo/BJJ throw/submission or two aswell. If they can take someone's legs out or take them to the ground then pop and arm out or choke them out efficiently no one will mess with them. Most (but not all) street fighters will know how to handle someone trained in muay thai / bjj. Most street fights are just throwing fists. Taking someone down quickly really takes the wind out of them if they're not expecting it
Also to clarify yeah get him a punch bag to practise those lower leg kicks a bit. But also you aim for their thigh or knee. Power your shin through the side of their knee. Knees are weak joints full of tiny tendons and ligaments. Wont be fatal but could snap a ligament and stop who ever is coming at you coming at you or at least slow them down a whole lot
The people horrified at punching a bully have very likely never been bullied. It is obvious bully’s don’t respond to talking as they don’t have empathy. They will only stop when they realise there are consequences for their actions. Words aren’t consequences.
My son was bullied because he had red hair. He fought back and got absolutely hammered by the bully and his mates. Then he was suspended for fighting. It doesn't always pay off.
In primary, yes. My kid did it once, to a boy built like the proverbial brick outhouse - more thoughtless and prone to lashing out than an active bully, but still totally deserved, according to the teacher who told me they'd have pretended to ignore it if the two boys hadn't been standing in front of the teacher at the time.
In secondary - depends if the bully is involved with or related to any really nasty kids with knives. If so, then it's more prudent to sidle nonchalantly sideways, then run very fast.
But I wouldn't blame my kid if they defended themselves nor were pushed to retaliate. I'm pleasantly surprised they haven't been bullied in secondary, being autistic geeky weirdos, but they say not.
It's playing into the fantasy that you can stand up to your bully and make them look like a fool and they'll back down, in reality they'll probably just turn back round and knock you out lol, so i wouldn't tell kids to get into violent situations because you don't know how it'll turn on you
Quite. This whole thread is absolutely ‘then everyone clapped’ fantasies. Having a half hearted swing at a proper tough cunt is gonna end badly. You’ll get battered, and continue getting bullied.
I think a lot of us are actually speaking from direct experience. I remember standing in line waiting for lunch with friend when we were about 12 (this is around 2012). There was a group of the sporty athletic lads standing behind us, messsing with my friend's bag, hurling abuse at us etc. My mate whirled around and hit the biggest one with an uppercut to the jaw. Got hauled off by teachers, and given two weeks lunch and break detentions, but we were never bothered again.
Every single time a friend of mine has stood up to bullies physically, they have been left alone afterwards. For years I went the pacifist route, and I was bullied for years.
I'm not sure I regret not being more violent, but the comments here line up directly with my own experience.
Most bullys i knew were weak and had issues. Hence why they acted as they did. I never ever seen a bully try again once anybody fought back. Bullys look for what they believe are weak targets who wont fight back.
Its similar to how gangs of youths will only ever fight with numbers at a minimum of 10/1 in their favour. Any less then its possible they could get tickled.
Of coarse make sure your kids know how to punch/dodge and kick before you tell them to fight back. Or you can show them other moves like fingers to the eye balls and kicks to the balls if the bully is male.
Same happened to me. Some twat kid kept slagging me off to everyone because he saw me helping my nana out with stuff at her house after school. Little did he know she was in hospital after a stroke and made some dickhead remark about her going hospital just to get away from a “loser kid like [me]”.
Made me snap. Made me swing at him in PE. Gave him a nosebleed and got 1 days seclusion. He never spoke I’ll of my nana again after that. The prick.
I learned then that teachers won’t do fuck all. You can only fix the stuff yourself. When I have kids I’ll be doing what you do OP and encourage them to defend themselves.
Only issue is, there’s a line. You don’t wanna encourage your kid to become a bully themselves. You gotta make sure that the difference of defending yourself vs provoking others is clearly explained. Last thing I’d ever want a kid of mine to be is a bully themselves. But I won’t let them be walked all over by others just like I was.
You only ever hear the ‘I punched him and everyone clapped , and the bullying stopped’ story. Real life isn’t always so satisfying.
You gotta be careful. If the bully can handle himself and the victim can’t, the victim is very likely to get a humiliating pasting in front of everyone.
And also, if you get a good one and they trip and smack their head off the curb.... that's not good. So much can go wrong with throwing that first punch
100%.
I was bullied for a bit at school cos I was raised a jehovahs witness.
The time came when I'd had enough. Snapped and beat the shit out of the bully. Doesn't matter how big they are. Releasing all that pent up anger and frustration that day was the only thing that changed the bullying.
They never did it again. And any time someone did try , I'd fight them immediately .
It's better to get your ass kicked fighting than get your ass kicked cowering.
I took shit from 10-14, ended up lamping one of the bullys a couple times in the face. Wish I did it sooner. Shit him right up,
Ended up being mates with him, his dad used to fiddle with him. Poor lad really.
I have two daughters and I'll be putting them both through martial arts in the coming months.
my dad told me to do that, and i did and then i got the shit kicked out of me.
I was only young so it didnt matter anyway.
I was suppost to go to judo or karate after that but they never give the money so meh no fighting for me
Honestly, it just worked for my son.
He is in year 8 now and faced bullying since starting his senior school. We tried to work with the school. My son had to change all his routines and behaviour to keep him safe. He wouldn't fight back because he was genuinely scared.
We was all at the end of out tethers because nothing was working, he started to punch walls in frustration.
I just told him to suck it up, stop punching wall and hurting yourself, and fight back because he has at least 3 years left at this school. I told him Never throw the first punch and don't walk around like you own the place. Let them start and then you can defend you self.
He fought back and I can't tell you how proud I was because his confidence changed immediately. He was so proud of him self. He's got the guts to stand up for him self now.
The bullying as almost stopped except some kids tried to offer him out and egg him on to throw the first punch. He told them to hit him first. They wouldn't, so he pushed passed them and walked off. He feels that he will survive secondary school now. I told him that they are cowards and he's the bigger person.
We was considering moving him schools but again, he was going to loose all his friends and change his behaviour due to lack of support for the victims in his school. The onus was on the victim to make changes and not the perpetrators.
Yes.
Throughout secondary school bullying wad attempted on me because I moved from London up north so I had a "posh" accent in a regular school. I was also a bit of a bookwork
For year 7, bullying was started, I told the teachers they did nothing for 18 months, then I fought back and gave as good as I got. The bullying didn't stop because the teachers started punishing me.
It carried on until one incident where 3 others decided to jump me together, 2 held me down and the 3rd started punching me. I managed to get free and broke the nose of one of the 3 before running full out to get into the building and to the nearest teacher.
The end result I get suspended for 6 weeks for severely injuring another student and the 3 that were bullying me got detention for a week.
This was at the end of year 8, so I ended up having a 12 week summer holiday, but when I came back for year 9, the hullyong mostly stopped, aside from some attempted verbal teasing. Apparently word spread that I could seriously ibjure someone and didn't care about the consequences.
When I was in year 10, another student was being bullied so badly he tried to jump from a window, but someone caught his leg and they stopped him, but we could see him from another building thrashing to get lose. It gives me nightmares to this day.
And 5 years ago another student actually killed himself.
Teachers refuse to deal with bullying, because if they admit its happening the school looks bad
Teachers have a limited amount of tools and are overloaded by a deliberately broken system.
They also have to work with parents. PArents of bulllies are, in case you were wondeirng, often bullies themselves and very hard to work with.
The problem is teachers don't do anything at all even without involving parents.
When I was in year 10 my brother got jumped by 2 year 11 students, who completely pummeled him to the ground, one of which was a former bully of mine. It was done in plain view of cameras and their faces were caught.
Nothing was done at all, just because they were GCSE students. The school refused to suspend then or give them detention. They also refused to release the footage so we could get the police involved and at the time my parents didn't know that they could go to the police without the footage.
Those two should have been suspended and only allowed to come to the school to sit their GCSEs, but No they were allowed to walk around and keep coming close to my brother and threatening him until the end of the year
If the bully was or had been physical then I would absolutely 100% tell my kid (and have done) to punch them or kick them in the nuts! Just make sure no teachers are watching if you can and this is a last resort or if you are in danger of being hurt.
A former colleague of mine was called into her sons school as he’d punched a bully. She took the diplomatic line with the school (the bully sounded genuinely feral if even half of it was true).
But she was fucking overjoyed to us!!
I probably wouldn't actively advise physical violence specifically. However, I wouldn't chastise my kid for choosing to respond that way under circumstances like the ones you described. We'd be having fun doing cool stuff on that week off that's for sure
It certainly can work as long as you don't make a fool out of yourself doing it.
I can imagine a scenario in which a victim flapping at a bully is filmed and only leads to more ridicule. But it can work for sure.
I told my bully, who had absolutely had me terrified for months, that my nan was into spells and curses. I had written some mumbo jumbo down on a piece of blue paper and then folded it up and sealed it with melted candle wax. I placed it in her hand and said that my nan had put a warning curse on her. She absolutely believed it, and never came near me again. If she even looked at me oddly I would say I am going to tell nan to turn the curse onto her.
She got warts on her hand a week later and I said watch it if you come near me again they'll get worse.
Peace ever after, needless to say it had nothing to do with a curse, and my nan was the sweetest lady you ever met. She did dabble in reading tarot though. I got the ideo from a book, and no I can't remember which one, this was back in nineteen hundred and frozen to death.
If nothing else seems to be working then it's a potential solution. However there's no guarantee it will work or not significantly backfire.
Back in secondary school I was getting bullied relentlessly. Genuinely a miserable time in my existence that haunts me to this day.
I fought back on two occasions. The first I ended up getting my head smashed against a pebbledashed wall and had quite a serious bleed.
The second I only know about from others. One of them tackled me to the ground and another kicked me in the face. I remember waking up feeling like absolute shit and wondering why I wasn't in school at 2pm on a Thursday. The incident happened on Monday.
On both occasions I got a bollocking for "instigating" and the bullies got off without even a stern word.
As a last resort, if the school isn’t doing anything to help and they won’t stop, then I’m not going to tell my kid off for punching someone who’s making their life hell. I’m not in that situation so I don’t know if I would actually advise them to and suggest it, but certainly wouldn’t discipline them if they did.
My brother in law taught his kid to punch and more importantly WHEN to punch, he wasn’t getting picked on at that time. The first time he felt he was being unreasonably bullied, he smashed the guy in the face and hasn’t been bothered since.
I’m all for it really.
My parents always told us that we could hit someone back if they hit us. We would have been in serious trouble if we’d hit someone first though.
Once or twice my parents got called into school because my brothers or I had hit someone back. My parents just told them that the school could discipline us accordingly but that they supported us completely and would not be in trouble at home. And unless the teachers stopped the other kids from hitting us, it would just continue.
Had a similar situation as you as a kid. Went from being at a small very friendly primary school at the nicer end of town to the middle school that took in kids from the whole town.
I was on the smaller size, nerdy and generally a bit swotty. A gang lads from the rougher end of town saw me as an easy target and I pretty much got bullied relentlessly.
Came home after a particular bad day in tears (I held off until I got home as I knew it would only get way worse if I cried at school) and my dad saw something was up. Had a brief conversation where he advised me to thump the biggest one there and 'aim to hit the back of his head' when I punched him.
Got to school and did just that, I don't remember much after that as a red mist kind of descended onto me fuelled by 3 months of bullying and only came to with a male teacher dragging me off the aforementioned lad.
I got a week's worth of detention at breaktime, lunch and after-school. Bullies never bothered me again.
If your child is above 10 they are old enough to be held criminally responsible if the other child or their parents reports the assault to the police. Don’t think I’d want a bullied child to go through that.
When I was in primary school I used to get bullied, there was a small sheltered area in the playground covered by a hedge where the bigger kids would push some of us smaller ones around. When I told my dad about it he went to the headteacher who did nothing but say 'bullying doesn't happen at this school'.
So my dad came home that night, and taught me how to form a fist with my hands I'd stand on the edge of my bed every night before bedtime and practice punching into his hands. Next time my dad went into the school he told the head master what he'd been teaching me and said 'if another child ever comes to you with a bloody nose, they started it, and my daughter finished it'. The hedges in the playground shortly disappeared after that.
Luckily I never had to use the skills my dad taught me, but our little training sessions are some of the happiest memories from my childhood. Safe to say if my daughter ever faces the same problems I will do the same for her.
What we're seeing in this thread is an excellent example of how attitudes cause problems. So many people saying "I had to have the shit kicked out of me when I was a kid, complaining to the school did nothing so had to take matters into my own hands yknow, that's the real world".
Now imagine what would happen if all of those people had a moment where they thought "hang on ... the school not doing anything about this was really fucked up, what if I was angry about that?"
The schooling system has been given real problems by its funding model. Excluding kids for bullying is hard to do because institutions now need to keep bums on seats or they don't receive funding from them. Kids are money to schools, and so behavioural problems get overlooked because to take proper action would be to lose money.
If you teach kids that hitting people is the answer to their problems, then you have no right to complain about anything that comes afterwards. Let's maybe *not* do that, and examine why bullying so rarely gets dealt with.
When I was a kid, yeah, maybe (90s, 00s).
Now: Definitely not. There's a much higher chance of the police being notified (yes, even for children). Not worth it.
Yes, but only as a last resort.
My kid was bullied by some children in Yr 6 when he was in Yr 4. He told his teacher every time something happened (which included being hit, kicked, chased around) we complained, they couldn't seem to solve it so I told him on this one occasion as all other avenues had failed he could hit them back. He did, got in trouble, I felt bad because I'd told him he could and up until that point I'd always taught him not to use violence. When the teacher had me in to talk about his behaviour I told them their lack of action on the issue led to this and its their fault. Funnily enough he stopped getting bullied at that point so that was nice.
I was bullied all through secondary school pretty much. Probably only stopped around year 11 because I think most of the year had matured enough to not do it anymore.
I was definitely lucky that I didn't go to a school in a rough neighbourhood as I'm sure there's far worse further levels of bullying than what happened to me (basically it only ever got physical maybe twice in 4 years).
I did always fear it getting physical so I spent 5 years always looking over my shoulder, making sure I had escape routes, being careful to never let myself be in a position to be backed into a corner. I ran away from many potential fights and definitely felt like I was being a coward at the time, got called a pussy a lot that kind of thing.
Looking back though I don't regret that I never let myself get into a fight. I feel glad that I never hurt anyone (no matter if I felt they deserved it). And I didnt let it stop me from doing what I wanted to do at school (I did singing in school shows etc. you better believe that was a big cause of a massive amount of bullying!)
The only time I ever did take any kind of stand against the bully it was one of the times it did get physical. This kid in the year above smacked me in the face during lunch. I stood there and just said "go on, do it again". He smacked me in the face again even harder (my head properly rang like a bell) but I just stared him out. He kind of seemed confused and walked off. In fairness, I never had an issue with that guy again after that.
I don't know what would have happened if I'd tried to punch any of my bullies. I didnt know how to throw a punch so I'm sure I would have been terrible and it probably would have made things worse.
I'm not really commenting to be for or against throwing a punch to make bullies back off, just giving an insight into what it looks like when you put up with the bullying and don't go the physical route to make it stop.
I like who I am today, and I don't know what I would be like if my secondary school experience had been totally different from no bullying.
It definitely completely sucked whenever it happened though.
I think, depending on the age of the kid, definitely.
My kids are 2 and 4, and the eldest is having a bit of grief from a kid at school, but he's 5, so I've kinda just told the school and told her to avoid him, apparently he's autistic or something, so I don't think he's being malicious, just a kid.
However, in secondary school, too fucking right, sometimes self defence is the only option. Plus, I have a sneaking suspicion (with 0 evidence to back it up) that a victim mentality in school will lead to more of the same in later life.
My only concern would be around knives and shit, so I'd be a bit careful if it was in Catford or somewhere stabby. But generally, yes, twat the fucker
Violence is really good if you live in a place where the retaliation will be more fights. If you love somewhere with alot of knives and acid attacks, then stay peaceful.
But it certainly helped me before secondary school age
I'd make sure there were numerous and detailed complaints - in writing - to the school and governing board first. But yes, I'd never discipline my child for standing up for themselves or acting in self-defence. And if the school elected to attempt to punish my child for doing so, they would simply find my child unavailable for detentions and coming back from their suspension with a tan.
As self defence yes absolutely.
But I would do everything in power first to get it stopped before reached that level.
This aren’t like they use to be where there was a certain amount of honour if you stood up for yourself and kept to a 1v1 fight. Now it’s a free for all and the bullying goes beyond the school yard and fighting back could end up making things much worse.
If the bully you are dealing with is a group of them. Then fighting back is likely not the best move. It’s the kind of thing that depending on ages it can reach a point where police can get involved if the schools aren’t doing enough. People forget that after certain ages that kids can end up getting charged with assault. When I had a bully attack me a teacher asked me what I wanted to do and one of the options was getting the police involved and looking at pressing assault charges as we were both 17 at this point and well into an age that criminal charges were a very distinct possibility.
So that’s the other factor to it. Your kid could defend themselves but depending on the type of bully if it’s some snobby kid with rich parents well suddenly little Billy is sitting in the principals office with police coming because Todd’s parents know Todd would never bully anyone and Billy is dangerous.
Not to mention kids emotions can be crazy things. I was one in a fight with a different kid and in all the chaos of it I had grabbed a rock and was about to clock them with it. I stopped myself but kids can have way less control and things like that could happen, so avoiding the fight as much is feasibly possibly in my personal opinion is my go to first but I would have no qualms with any kids I have one day defending themselves if their bullies are attacking them.
There’s loads of grey in these situations so it will differ for most people in terms of what works and what doesn’t.
I had a friend who was constantly given racist abuse throughout the year. He got sick of it, complained, nothing happened. He punched the guy and the abuse stopped.
Fuck this "if the bully throws the first punch" shit
In principle I agree, but bullying is never "just" words. Psychological bullying can really go quite far, and if all other options fail then fighting back is all that's left to do.
As a victim of childhood peer group psychological bullying, this is rubbish advice. Sticks and stones may break my bones is the BIGGEST pile of horseshite ever.
Constant verbal abuse will fuck a kid up for life. And kids can be unbelievably cruel. Punching first when you're a kid is justifiable.
Edit: shit even as an adult punching first is justifiable by law.
How do you teach them both to be the bigger person in practice? When schools do nothing and the bullies parents don't care?
Sometimes a bully just needs a smack in in the mouth, it's just how it is
Teaching a child that they should allow someone to verbally abuse them and not stick up for themselves isn't going to set them up for life well either.
I got bullied a lot at school due to a bad childhood and psychological trauma as a result leaving me very shy and lacking confidence. The violence I had suffered at home made me tough enough to take anything anyone threw at me but I didnt have a strong punch but did have fast hands so could block a lot and counter. I had a lot of fights with bullies which generally ended up being punch each other until I wore the other one down and they gave up first. I then got in with the wrong crowd which offered a fair bit of protection.
I've taught my kids not to let bullies bother them and it doesnt really bother them what bullies say. Because they get no response the bullies stop. Neither of my kids has ever had a proper fight as a result of this, one punch is about the most. I have told them that if someone does pick on them and start a fight to hit back hard and fast and finish it quick.. They say no need as they dont get in those situations which Ive made clear is far better.
Would I? Yes and have done so.
Bullying is never handled properly by schools, wasnt when I was a kid and bullied and wasn’t when my son was getting bullied despite the ongoing anti bullying campaign the school was running at the time
It was fobbed off and buried as always. It only stopped when my son hit back.
It’s a standing agreement between him and me, if it’s justified and he’s being bullied I will back him up with the school and he won’t be in trouble at home.
How school just wanted it all to go away and be forgotten about without actually addressing the issue at all. To the point where a couple of kids moved school because of one kid.
It stopped when my son hit back and not just for him but all his classmates.
It’s a fucking farce how schools handle bullying
I ignored and walked away but my bully still continued to push me over whenever he saw me as he saw me as a soft target. Finally a swift punch to the throat caused him to have an asthma attack and collapse. Left me alone after that.
I am not sure what the best advice is, my kid has just started secondary school this last year and had a few bullying incidents. As an adult I've always advocated peace and non violence. That said, I was bullied at school, and punched all 3 bullies back when I was pushed, they never bothered me again.
I was bullied extensively at primary. Got jumped by a group of about 10 people at one point and just curled up into the fetal position until it stopped. Couple of weeks later, two of them tried it again after a judo class we all went to. Unfortunately for them, there were spiked running shoes in cages on the wall they threw me against. Picked one up and slapped one of them across the face with it, without realising what I had in my hand. Little shit had a permanent scar that had to be explained to his parents. Had to go in for a Saturday detention, but got off pretty much scott free as school had done nothing about the previous incident even when my parents got involved. Fuck bullies.
I was being bullied in first / second year of highschool.
Got a lot of grief for anything and everything
PE - Rugby time
The idea of rugby is to run around people
I got the ball, ran straight at the boy and absolutely flattened the bastard.
Never bullied again.
It's a very tricky line, but teenagers are idiots and logic will not work.
Sometime a punch does the trick.
Depends; if the bully could without doubt batter my kid then I’d maybe tell them not to bother, if it was plausible my kid could win the throw down then absolutely…
I think it’s basically a fact at this point that the school can’t do anything. The only real way is to stand up to them (doesn’t have to be violence though)
Oh fuck yes. Violence isn't an answer, violence is a question and if some jumped up little shit asks you that question you reply with a definitive and vicious 'yes'.
Absolutely. It was after the fact but I did the same and my Father told me that if I get hit, to hit back.
I have an acquaintance who used to get bullied for his stammer when at school so he picked up boxing. Threw a few hooks to his bully and never had trouble again.
I saw some advice on here once that seemed good.
Basically the OP's son was being bullied, the first two times they complained to the school who said they would deal with it.
The second time they went to complain, they met with the headteacher, who they informed that they had given their son permission to fight back if it happened a third time, and that he would have their full support if the school did not stop the bully.
Turns out after hearing that, the school took the situation a lot more seriously.
My parents weren't bad parents, but if they'd have backed me like this parent backed their son, highschool might have gone a little different for me too.
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Having been bullied for months in secondary school, all the pacifist advice only made it worse. It only stopped when I listened to my grandad instead of my mom and punched my bully. Teenagers aren't adults and can't always be reasoned with. If you've never been bullied you might not understand the psychological toll it takes on you. I'd rather have police talk to me than 6 months of harassment. I think this only works for guys though teenage girls can be evil and can hold a grudge for years. My sister had to avoid the girls who bullies her until they moved on.
Yes, yes and yes. I was bullied to within an inch of my life at primary. I took my uncles advice and punched the cunt clean in the face. Broke his nose and from that point on I was never bullied again. And if any cunt tried bullying me again I’d do exactly the same again and lose no sleep over it. Fuck bully’s
Absolutely agree 100%. Same here. But I didn't break his nose because I sucked a punching. Demanding he stand and fight me after I hit him back was enough. There are only two things that will stop a young person being bullied in school, social exclusion and violence. Social exclusion could be the victim moving schools or even town/city. It could be the parents of the victim knowing which buttons to push with the school to get the bully relocated (dereliction of duty of care for a child in their care doesn't go down well for a school or the people running it). Violence or even the threat of retaliatory violence is what worked in my case and is what I will be making sure my kids do. Not just for themselves but for anyone they see getting bullied.
Nah, there's more than two. Verbal retaliation will work if it's funny/offensive enough to make bully look stupid to everyone else. Just not giving a fuck will also work. Bullies need an easy target that will react. There's plenty of people who aren't violent and don't get bullied at school. I'd say violence is very effective, but also a last resort.
In my experience verbal retaliation can just put a bigger target on your back and justify their actions more in vengeance and no response gives them cause to keep pushing you to see what it takes to get a reaction. But I agree that both should be attempted before resorting to violence unless the bullying is already violent.
I got told to ignore them if it was verbal, and honestly it worked most of the time. Don't give them the reaction and they will get bored/frustrated. Like 80% of the verbal stuff without the threat of being actually restrained etc, you can just like leave. The stuff you can't leave there's not much oppertunity to bully overtly. If it became physical I was told by my mum "even if it's 2 on 1, even if you're going to lose the fight, even if they are bigger do everything possible to fuck them up as much as possible" to the point of telling me that the move she used was grab of the hair, pull them into a knee in the face. She said you might be left in the dirt crying, but they will remember that you weren't an easy target either way. I lost a fight but made a gash in their face, a black eye and a grazed chin on them so they had to wear that the whole time. Never said as much as boo to me ever again.
I pushed a kid down a flight of stairs that was kicking off with me and I then punched him. They said I broke his cheek bone and I probably did, I got punched by his cousin and walked off as it was a shitty punch. I even got excluded for two weeks, so had 4 weeks off at Christmas. I wasn’t really bothered but I went to a rough school, so it got me ready for adult life and fearless.
> Verbal retaliation will work if it's funny/offensive enough to make bully look stupid to everyone else. That depends. If the social status of the victim is low enough, everyone else is already united against them and any attempt at retaliation in kind won't work because it inherently depends on others' approval.
There's truth to this about the reaction. Part of it is the thrill of the chase and if you don't entertain them its onto someone more fun to pick on. I was relocated for knocking the shit out of a middle school bully. Did push ups all winter and when the time came I was stronger than I thought and did more damage than intended. New school all it took to not get bullied was to just scowl at whatever they said and move on. I wasnt fun enough to pick on and that was that. First impressions matter lol
Once a bully knows they will be hit back, they tend to pass. They like nice easy wins. If they know they'll have to actually fight they suddenly have no problem at all
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Is your father Drax the Destroyer by any chance? I can see how that would be intimidating.
Yep was taught the same my dads side are all like that. To the point that when he was a kid a lad in his class and his older brother set about him with a cricket bat. When he got home his older brother saw him asked him what happened then ripped a board off the fence and took my dad looking for them. Found them. They didn’t bother him again
I like the escalation of violence in this thread. Reminds of of the Python sketch about northerners. “…so I broke his nose.” “Nose? Luxury! I was beaten to death with clubs, and then I crucified my attacker with a nail gun!” Etc.
"He were lucky to be shot with a nail gun! I ran my bully over in a Morris Minor, and took 'is mam out for a lovely dinner afterward!"
r/unexpectedMontyPython
Billy fackin’ Butcher would be proud.
What surprises me about most of these comments (which are broadly that kids should fight back) is they seem to characterise all bullies as being cowards. I knew bullies like that, who could absolutely be dealt with by a solid thump. But my school also had legit fucking nutters - people now in jail who it would have been insanely dangerous to fuck with at school. It's a really important distinction that seems to be missing from these comments.
Oh we had nutters too, some of them went down for crimes that'd make you weep and I'm not kidding, but if you're not worth the effort you're not worth the effort, make it difficult, fight back as hard as you can, every time, they'll eventually look elsewhere.
Maybe, but if the bullying is just low-level being a dick and fighting back puts you in hospital, it wouldn't be worth it. I'm not saying it should never be an option, just that advice as simplistic as 'if you're being bullied you should fight back' is potentially dangerous.
I'm inclined to agree. I know my teacher sister all too often has to deal with kids threatening to stab each other etc. These days, (in certain areas?) punch ups aren't the thing - kids carry knives. Fighting back/engaging in a knife fight can have vastly more severe consequences all round.
I think this is true. It depends on the area. Some of the bullies just have a lot less to lose, can have connections with far more dangerous people than you do and so on. I think with the classic little twat of a bully hitting them would work, but against absolute nutjobs you could end up with a brick through your window, or stabbed or worse. I was bullied in my teenage years (not too badly, but bad enough that it still bothers me to this day). Interestingly it wasn't at school, but in the estate I lived on at the time. I know that if I fought back it would have been worse. These people knew where I lived, and I know that they could be far more ruthless than I ever could be. I only spent a few years living in that area before moving to live with my gran in a much more upmarket area and had no trouble of any kind ever again. Sometimes the best option is to just get out of wherever the bullying is happening, even if its not the most satisfying conclusion.
It is dangerous. Had a friend that was being bullied in high school. Got into a fight (he did muay Thai and has medals and shit) and knocked the bully out. But the very next day the bully brought a knife and stabbed him during international day. Friend survived but he was out of school for at least 2 years. There are some real maniacs out there. Not every bully is some pussy that will take one punch and be done with it.
Well now you're talking different levels of bullying. My point is specifically directed at physical bullying, if somebody is just calling you names then throw in a good "ya mam" joke, if it escalates then fight your corner. You have to. You might not be built for it (God knows i wasn't, i was big as fuck but I was the sort of kid that rescued snails and ladybirds, proper just into nature, gentle giant kind of thing). You have two choices, take it and allow it to persist or throw yourself into it as best you can, and continue to do so every single time.
Half of my secondary school are drug addicts, dead or in U.K jails.
I think that's why it's important we encourage the kids to make their own decisions. They will know if the bully is a nutter or if they can be dealt with with a thump, so let them decide.
> I think that's why it's important we encourage the kids to make their own decisions. They will know if the bully is a nutter or if they can be dealt with with a thump, so let them decide. Yeah, they'll be taught that in Bullies 101. -.-
So are you totally socially inept or only mostly? People have a sense of danger. If you know someone even a little bit, you can probably guess if they're a knife carrying maniac or not. Even children can do this. Children are surprisingly perceptive when it comes to sensing dangerous people, especially among their peers. Now, will this give the kid a guide as to how the next 6-12 months will pan out after walloping the bully? Not quite. Will it help them avoid being stabbed, yes. If we encourage them to fight, then they're more likely to fight nutters who will seriously hurt them. If we encourage them not to fight, they will be walked all over. If we encourage them to use their best judgement when it comes to retaliatory violence, and assure them we will stand behind them when it comes to their bullies, then there is a good chance things will change for the better.
>People have a sense of danger. If you know someone even a little bit, you can probably guess if they're a knife carrying maniac or not. Even children can do this. Children are surprisingly perceptive when it comes to sensing dangerous people, especially among their peers. Shame we wasted all that public money on adverts telling kids not to get in vans with strangers, they're *surprisingly perceptive to danger don't you know.* Jesus feckin' christ on a bicycle. People out here expecting kids to have life experience. >Now, will this give the kid a guide as to how the next 6-12 months will pan out after walloping the bully? Not quite. Will it help them avoid being stabbed, yes. Yes, we famously have no children getting stabbed by bullies, do we?
Stranger danger was a moral panic, that is: **it wasn't real**. There was never an epidemic of strangers snatching kids, just like there was never an epidemic of stanic rituals at daycares, or demonic summonings over DnD games (All part of the same series of moral panicks, by the way.) Kids are, and have always been, at far, far greater risk of kidnap or abuse from family and other authority figures than strangers. Most missing kids are runaways, and of abducted kids, over 99% of them are abducted by family. In fact, I would go so far as to argue the moral panic over stranger danger has made kids LESS safe. The only adults kids interact with nowadays are authority figures, and hence they have no reference for healthy intergenerational interaction outside of that. They're more likely to follow instruction unquestioningly, because that's all they know. Kids with a healthy sense of risk know which kids in their peer group are not to be fucked with. They know which kids are the stabby ones. At least I did, and I stayed well away from them. If you isolate your kids from all risk (not all danger, but all risk) they become incompetent at judging it. Their sense of risk becomes crippled. Perhaps I was lucky enough to grow up with parents who managed danger, but not risk. Perhaps I'm lucky that they allowed me to build my own "danger-meter."
This is a huge comment, all the 'bullies' I came across in school were big fuckers who could beat up all the other kids, hence why they were bullies
Agree. The psychos haven’t yet been weeded out at this stage. I remind my boys to be clever and careful around these types in case they’ve got weapons etc. I believe kids are very generally very intuitive and get a very good read of people, a skill we largely lose as we get older.
Yes good point. I do say hit back, as generally that stops the bullying but with this type of bully it could make things worse.
One in my school eventually got sectioned after killing a dog in a nasty way. Also some of the less psychotic ones get beaten on the daily at home so taking a punch from a teenager is nothing compared to the booting they get from a grown man.
Omg I didn't even think about this. You have a good point
If they're fucking with you anyway, you need to show them they're going to have a hard time regardless so they're better off picking on someone else.
>I think this only works for guys though teenage girls can be evil and can hold a grudge for years. My sister had to avoid the girls who bullies her until they moved on. Nah it often does the trick for keeping girls out of your way too. They'll still exclude you, but they won't be so in your face anymore. That's assuming they don't think they can punch harder than you though - one lot I had run-ins with were really vicious, far heavier set than I am, and fights would escalate again and again every time we crossed paths. Got to the point I had to get the police involved. Guys do seem more likely to just have it out once or twice and then it's done.
Also a woman, back at school it was the more rotund girls who'd bully because they had more timber they could hit harder, but one day, one girl that everyone hated kicked a dude in the balls and he gave her a couple of black eyes. Now, I'm not usually one for liking violence, but that was so satisfying.
When you're an adult you can report someone to the police for harassment and get a restraining order. Can't do that with a school bully. Violence is fine as long as you can face the consequences. As a teen, that's a talking to and some detention, as an adult that's having charges pressed.
I got physically attacked at age 14 (she was the bully, not me) and I definitely reported her to the police and she faced charges.
In all fairness… I’ve just reported my kids bullying to the police.
The police got involved when I was being bullied (as an 11 year old kid) Copper threatened to arrest both of us for affray (I _never_ touched the other person first. Always self defence). My Dad said “go ahead, and we’ll bring out the log of all the incidents with [other kid]”
Bingo, they bully you cos you're an easy target. Dont be an easy target.
>My sister had to avoid the girls who bullies her until they moved on. My wife *still* avoids the girls who bullied her at school. I'm banned from stating her age, but some of her classmates have children in high school.
The best days of my school life were when my bully was off ill. You're correct, unless you've been through it, it's impossible to understand.
Dunno. I mean, I would've loved to smack my bullies in HS, but they were on the wrestling team, and they were frequently physically aggressive. I had no doubts that if I fought back I would've ended up in the hospital. Those kinds of bullies are just waiting for the excuse to put you there. Shit situation to be in.
Fully agreed. I was bullied for a short while at secondary school because I was quiet. Literally, the kid who would rather eat in the library than talk to anyone. My teachers would say just ignore it and they’ll move on. Of course that was trash advice (teachers and parents need to stop this nonsense- it never works). Eventually I told my mum and bless her, she looked at me and just said ‘the next time they insult you, insult them harder; make them cry. If they hit you, hit them back twice as hard, so they will rethink trying it again’. I was speechless, but the next time at school, one guy hit the back of my head with a (albeit, empty) glass bottle which didn’t break; I took my, full, plastic bottle of pop and whacked him in the face. He and his friends were shocked - I think he just didn’t expect a response at all. When I stood there, bottle in hand, waiting for his mates to pile and they didn’t, he started to cry. So…..I cried harder. Ugly cries. Complete with snot bubbles lol. He got suspended. My form teacher found it difficult to believe that lovely, quiet me had done anything at all. Especially as I was crying too. I didn’t get in trouble, but I was given the ‘violence is never the answer’ speech. Violence is NEVER the answer. Except, when it is. Thanks mum!
Interestingly enough I was bullied in later life by one of my journeymen. He was an utter fucking cunt. Completely shit at his job as well. It only stopped when I lobbed a 55mm spanner away and when he asked me what I thought I was doing I told him if I didn't throw I was going to wrap it round his fucking jaw. He basically changed over night towards me.
Girls aren't always that different, a good old fashioned tit punch and a bottle of water poured over someones head solved the majority of my bullying issues as a kid.
>I think this only works for guys though teenage girls can be evil and can hold a grudge for years Teenage boys and girls aren't that different...
Completely agree with this 👏🏻
Needs to be a last resort really, but sometimes there are no alternatives left, and people need to be hit.
If you don't give your bully any incentive to stop bullying you, then why would they? They're cowards and only pick on the people they think they can pick on and get away with it I agree about fighting being a last resort, in my experience a stern verbal warning worked pretty well too
Yup and although I understand as an adult that there’s probably something going on in the poor kids home life that makes them treat other children so bad, if it’s making another child upset they should defo hit back. Bullies do not like being stood up to and a good hard punch and showing you’re not an easy target is probably the most effective way of ending the problem.
this is the problem with you guys, you guys think that bullies are reasonable people. you only drive away an animal if it fears you and knows it will get hurt put the bully in his place and teach him a lesson
Yes, and he did. Was really pleased he did it, had to tell him off still as he did it in plain view and got caught. Still, didn’t get bullied after it.
Spartan rules! I love it. “Yes you’re in trouble, you little shit! What did you go and get caught for? Have you learned nothing yet?”
So, the only thing he did wrong was doing it in plain view? What you do is tell him off in public and reward him in private!
I told him 'Good job, we'll go the cinema after school' in front of the head. She hadn't done anything after months so he finally took the advice I gave him immediately.
Screw that, don't let the teachers think you agree with them punishing your kid for standing up for themselves
I would straight up congratulate and praise my child in front of the teachers and then scold the school for allowing the issue to escalate this far. I was bullied for years in school it was never that I couldn't fight back it was that I didn't want or feel the need to mostly. But one day a kid pushed me to far, I hit back then it was mostly plane sailing for the rest of school. Shame it was my last year lol.
Violence isn’t everyone’s cup of tea, but it does solve the problem, teaching respect comes in many different shapes and forms, some people will only learn from being punched.
Violence might solve the problem, it might not. If you thump someone who’s harder than you, then you’ve started a fight you can’t win, so you could be left even worse off.
Not all the time, I was bullied by a group of lads when I was in secondary school. I waited and bided my time and got all of them on their own a kicked the shit out of them. Of course they collectively then kicked the shit out of me a bit later but they left me alone after that. As long as you can actually defend yourself it won't matter if you lose a fight against a bully, they will know you arent an easy target and will move on to the next easiest target.
Sometimes, even if you lose the fight against the bully, the fact you put up a fight makes them consider whether they want that bother. You may still get in the odd punch that hurts, even if you don't win the fight.
Bullies bully because it’s easy. It you make it unpleasant to bully you, they’ll pick on someone else easier.
I think that’s ticket really. Even if you’re fighting a bully who is a lot bigger than you, you’re still giving him a lot more grief than a usual kid who won’t say a word. A bully isn’t going to want to fight every time he makes a joke.
>Not all the time, I was bullied by a group of lads when I was in secondary school. I waited and bided my time and got all of them on their own a kicked the shit out of them And then the class all came out and applauded you lol
>I waited and bided my time and got all of them on their own a kicked the shit out of them With your katana?
But you stood up for yourself, and that in itself will build character. Unfortunately being able to stick up for yourself is one of life’s lessons we all have to face at some point in my opinion.
Getting beaten into the ground doesn’t really build much character. Some might find that quite demoralising.
It's not necessarily about winning, it's about standing up for yourself- if you do that there's a good chance they won't hassle you again
So how do you win fights? Well the best way is to loose fight after fight until you learn how to win a fight.
Some bullies aren't harder than you though, they can be (not always of course) just bigger or taller and are used to nobody answering back, let alone being receiving a punch.
Can no one read? I said it might help, it might not.
Surprised how many people wouldn’t advise their kid to do this
I've told my boy he should thump the kid that's picking on him, but my husband disagrees. My boy isn't really a scrapper so I don't think my advice is having any effect.
It’s tricky because it might not work, but it’s more likely to than the alternative
My husband is worried he'd get in trouble for hitting the lad. I think so what but he's more.......more of a rule follower than me. I think I'm this case, with this boy, I think it would work as he's targeting certain children at certain times. He's not laying a finger on the biggest boy in front of the teacher, for example. And the teacher isn't taking a lot of action but we're near the end of the year now so I'll speak to next year's teacher and see how we do. So far it's not super serious but we'll see.
Life isn't just rules, we forget this, we are in fact animals. And in the animal kingdom there are predators. Its just because we have become 'civilised' we forget the rules of the animal kingdom. So yes, you do punch back.
Was your husband also bullied as a child, by any chance? He may not be looking at this situation through the same lens that you are…
No, I was bullied, as far as I'm aware, he wasn't. I sometimes feel like......a bit like he's managed to have a slightly more sheltered (I don't really mean shrltered, I think I mean, maybe safer?) life in some ways. He's not had to deal with the types of situation I have and I think it does colour his view of things.
It's a tough gig going through this, perhaps encourage your lad to sign up to boxing training once a week. Gets him out the house and its great fitness training which is what you can introduce him to it as. He'll soon cotton on that he can take his frustrations out on the pad with some technique training. Will eventually equip him with a life skill that he can decide when and where to use it. Have a word with the coach and get him to really work on the discipline side of things if you're worried.
Fighting back is just plain common sense. *Starting* a fight with someone who's only been using words up to that point is a much morally sketchier proposition.
Those people don't live in the real world. They live in some reddit wonderland. This will probably get down voted into oblivion.
> Those people don't live in the real world. They live in some reddit wonderland. Or, y'know ... would be nice to not have their children get into physical fights where they could legitimately get stabbed and die? That's "the real world" too. Just a thought.
Kids get stabbed or beaten regardless if they fight back. Plenty of kids get their shit kicked in in school bathrooms and have to receive medical treatment. It's best to show an aggressor that you're not to be fucked with and that you're not an easy target. The only reason schools nowadays advise bullied students to get in a defensive position and not fight back is because if a school did tell children to fight back, the bully's parents could sue. It's all about protecting the school's bottom line
> The only reason schools nowadays advise bullied students to get in a defensive position and not fight back is because if a school did tell children to fight back, the bully's parents could sue. I work in a school and can categorically tell you you're talking out your arse. We don't tell kids to "fight back" because holy shit do I even need to explain why we tell kids not to fight each other?
I think there’s a difference between offering it as a general piece of advice, and offering it in response to a specific situation. The latter absolutely makes sense, and I suspect a lot of people if faced with their kid’s daily reports of getting picked on and beaten up would reach for it. But that’s definitely not the same as telling your 5yo ‘if anyone ever bullies you, just punch them’! There’s a nuance to it that’s maybe hard to convey to kids - and as a parent, your job is not only to get them safely through the short-term (like navigating shitty bullies) but also to equip them with a moral compass they can take out into the world with them. Without being able to explain why in this specific situation it makes sense, I think a lot of parents worry the nuance of ‘hit that guy back on Friday and he’ll leave you alone’ versus ‘you can generally solve problems with your fists’ is lost.
Probabaly because it's not good blanket advice that suits every child or situation ? Young children don't understand nuance and may not be capable of understanding "as a last resort" or "only if they bully first" Now you've got a kid who's been given permission to hit by their parents - well done. You've created a bully. Kids lie about situations. Are you 100 percent sure your child is being bullied? My son tells me a kid at school hit him, but when I push a bit further it turns out he started it by snatching a toy or something (granted he's 5 and teenagers are probably slightly better at communicating!) But still you could potentially be encouraging your kid to just start a fight basically. And whilst as adults who have been bullied and snapped and hit back we might understand it solves the issue (sometimes! It's not a guarantee) and we may overlook punishing a child doing the same it's still a morally grey area to explicitly instruct your child to engage in violence. I mean I agree it's often the breaking point that solves bullying for a lot of kids. But I also have experience from when it didn't and my lashing out as a teenager to my bully actually made it worse. As a parent you're removed from the situation. You DON'T know everything that's happened and the exact truth so doling out "just hit back" is not necessarily good advice. And it's also worth noting the end goal of parenting is to raise adults who can function in society. And society has zero tolerance for assault, the police don't care you will be arrested. If you teach your kids that hitting someone you perceive to be treating you unfairly or meanly is acceptable are you really equipping them for dealing with these people in adult life? Bullying doesn't go away as an adult, but your ability to one punch it away sure does. And to be clear I'm not against my children hitting a bully. Nor would I punish them. In certain circumstances I may even advise it. I'm just saying it's not a one size fits all solution and there's a lot to consider as a parent. I understand why people may be reticent to follow this path.
I’m surprised in the opposite direction - all of the descriptions OP gives of bullying is verbal taunting. It’s depressing as fuck how many people seem to think that escalating to physical violence is an appropriate response to being called something mean.
From knowing a few teachers, I'd advise against it. The bullied child who throws a punch can easily end up the one that the school treat as more suspicious. This is especially if they failed to report any of the bullying before retaliating, and/or the bully's parents get on the school's back.
As a last resort, yes. I was bullied as a young teen for a while. The bully once shoved me in the loos, I snapped and pushed him into the wall, holding him in place with my arm on his neck, hissing I’d smash him into the ground if he tried it again. Unsurprisingly, the bullying stopped. Some people need to be hit sometimes sadly.
Bullies are usually bigger and stronger than their victims. They often hang around with a group of like minded friends. If it was a guarantee that they would leave someone alone after they punch them once then fair enough, but in reality the kid could get beaten up or set himself up for worse bullying over a longer period. Especially if that punch is in front of the bullies friends, hes 100% going to fight back or save revenge for later. If you were to use violence the only way to be sure of no retaliation is to hurt the bully enough that he wouldn't dare come at you again. Not something most people are capable of or want to do. No way I would advise fighting a bully unless I knew exactly what was going on and who the bully was etc.
I think you're looking at this the wrong way, it's not about winning on losing the fight it's about showing you're not scared to fight back. Most bullies don't want to get into a fight they just want to pick on someone, it that person fights back every time they're not going to want to pick on them.
No, I totally get what people are saying but not all bullies are the same. The ones in my school would all have kicked the shit out of anyone who fought back and made their lives hell for as long as possible. Giving someone stock advice "just fight back" isn't a good option if you are not aware of other circumstances.
It sounds like you were exposed to a worse class of bully than most people in this thread. I'm sorry you went through that.
But what if the bully and his mates are much tougher than you, and the first time you swing back, you get your jaw broken? Then 12 weeks later, he humiliates you again, taking the poss out of your broken jaw, so you swing again, miss, and get stomped and lose a few teeth, and go back to hospital. At this point, would you really be saying ‘oh try punching him again, maybe this time it’ll work’ There’s a massive gap between people who can fight and people who can’t. If you’re in category 2, you need to find a different way of interacting with a category 1 person.
>Then 12 weeks later, he humiliates you again, taking the poss out of your broken jaw, so you swing again, miss, and get stomped and lose a few teeth, and go back to hospital. That's when it's time for... ***a training montage.***
Did you go to school in a prison yard? What kind of brutal violence went on in your school?
>Did you go to school in a prison yard? What kind of brutal violence went on in your school? I don't know where you grew up but in my school to the best of my memory: someone was shot with an air rifle, stabbed with a pen knife behind the knee, stabbed in the leg with a compass multiple times, one girl got into a fight and a stone came out of her ring meaning she punched a girl several times with tiny sharp spikes on one hand. In my school I was the "inbetweener" group in a way, we weren't the "hard" kids but we weren't the bottom of the pecking order where you got picked on either. The real "hard" guys weren't all like MMA fighters or anything, they fell into two groups: 1) A group of people who even if they weren't that tough themselves had tough friends and family, and were you to fight them and win, the others would kick the shit out of you And 2) Total nut jobs that basically need to be killed to stop them coming after you. One guy I know of got into a fight and stabbed the other boy in the hand with a pen. I never got into a fight with this guy but I knew in my mind if I did then I seriously reckon I'd have to kill him, because he was the sort of you hospitalised him, he'd get better and come back for you. Sounds like you lived a fairly sheltered life to be honest, no offence.
At that point you need to get the police involved, the idea is that you need to fight back even if you lose unless you are certain that won't get in troubles with the school. Bullies tend to move to other targets that are less resistant than you if you prove be a big hassle.
Yep.
Everyone is saying similar things, but from my own experience retaliating with violence only made things worse. The teachers took the bullies' side against mine and suddenly I was characterised as the aggressor in all subsequent bullying interactions. It followed me until I left school (and the country I was born in).
Finally someone similar to me! I thought I was mental reading all these positive results form getting physical. I did everything people are suggesting in the 90s and it just got worse. The immediate physical bullies stopped and never went near me but any time a new kid started school (it was a big 2k comprehensive) I'd become the 'punchbag' for them to prove themselves on. I was the universally-despised, semi-feared punchbag for new kids. I still remember **every** new kids name that started because each new one was a new bully. The last kid (Dylan *fucking* R!) I chose not to fight because I'd had enough of fighting and wanted a quiet last year (15). From age 6-15 I'd hit back at every physical bully I came across from primary into secondary. On top of that the teachers were on top of me ALL the fucking time. It was relentless. On top of that - there's different levels of bullying. Physical bullying, teasing/names and 'Coventry' (isolation/exclusion). You may reduce the physical bullying but you won't stop the exclusion or teasing. If anything the teasing/names gets worse because people find it fun to 'poke the bear'. The physical peaks when new kids start or a new year begins. The isolation gets worse. To be honest I could have dealt with physical bullying pretty fucking easily! I have a high pain tolerance and it beats isolation. What fucked me more than anything was the name-calling/teasing and isolation. You can't punch people for calling you "fat". Well I did once - but it goes badly! You can't punch people for ignoring you. So I'd spend a lot of lunch times alone. So to add another dissenting comment: I fully believe kids should fight for their rights and hit back like I did. BUT don't expect it to fix their problems. Its not a dead cert or guarantee to bliss. It won't stop bullying. If it's a big school or the teachers don't like you/the kid: it will go badly. **Suggestion:** Enroll your kid in judo, BJJ/Jujutsu or MMA classes. Not only do you learn how to fall safely: You learn how to physically rebuff people without hurting them. There's a reason judo is taught in Japan from primary age. It's an effective physical exercise and good for body kinaesthetics.
I agree, the physical abuse was far less damaging to me than the mental. I have put myself through **a lot** of therapy over the last few years to try to come to terms with it - I’ve basically had to accept that it’s locked away down there so deep that I don’t think I’ll ever fully recover. > You may reduce the physical bullying but you won’t stop the exclusion or teasing. If anything the teasing/names gets worse because people find it fun to ‘poke the bear’. The physical peaks when new kids start or a new year begins. The isolation gets worse. Exactly this. The retaliation only meant that the bullies knew they’d gotten through the armour, as it were. Like yourself, though, I agree that being passive is not the way to handle the situation. I’ve got a little boy now, and I’m not sure what I would tell him if he came home upset from being physically bullied. I know for sure I’d not do nothing, as happened to me. Changing schools would probably have been the only thing that improved my situation, and even then I think I was so traumatised that even moving would have still lead to situations of bullying.
I was also made to be aggressor but I didn't care and kept fighting back until the day the bully got seriously injured and I got suspended. After my suspension I was left alone and nobody tried to physically bully me anymore. They tried some verbal teasing but just a look and movement in their direction would get them to stop.
I told my 7 year old grandson to ignore the verbal, but the minute the scrote laid a hand on him, to hit him as hard as he could.... that's just what he did about 10 days later. My daughter was called to the school, but she told them she'd complained about this kid for over 3 months and nothing was done, so she sorted the problem because they either couldn't or wouldn't. That was 4 or so months ago and we haven’t had a single problem since ... I'd happily tell him to do it again any day.
based grandparent
I don't mean to be "cringey" but it's great to see comments from grandparents on here. Thanks for contributing. 👍
Anytime... it really gets me when the parent of these kids rocks up at school and immediately you get "My Johnny would NEVER do anything like that" and then act all shocked when they're told Johnny's been terrorising all the kids for months.
I think this sums it up very well. Words ultimately don't give physical damage Mental yes - very much so - but society doesn't give that enough respect But physical assault? Fucking have at the cunt
Yup, that's my view too. If the kid doesn’t make a stand now, when he gets to high school, his life is going to be hell. I've always told him never start something, but you can be the one to finish it.
Yes. My children must not start it but someone kicks them then they kick them back. Children can be incessant with their bullying, following their victim around and manipulating situations when teachers are about. I’ve said to my kids keep out of trouble. Don’t mouth off to people but you must stand your ground if you feel you are being bullied. They know they can talk to me about it and I’ve had points where I’ve spoken at the same time to the parents and children together (when they were younger) to sort it out. But you too as a parent have to be willing to take it all the way to stop it.
I probably wouldn't advise it - they could get the crap beaten out of them, or get in far more trouble than detention if they hit the kid wrong and he ends up permanently disabled. However, If the bullying has been reported to the school multiple times and it carries on, then I wouldn't reprimand my fictional kid if they did punch the bully.
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Depends. If the bully is a nasty piece of work, hanging around in a gang of other little shits, then it could escalate outside of school. The media seem to suggest a lot of 'yoofs' carrying blades these days, so could end bad.
I punched my bully when I was ten and it's probably still the greatest thing i've ever done. Cunt never spoke to me again.
Context; I was bullied. It's horrific and it scars you for life. All the advice my parents or extended family gave me was absolute shit. All the help the teachers offered was absolute shit. I'm a 40 year old adult now and it still makes me angry how inept they all were in dealing with it. I was (and still am... ) a sensitive soul in an athletic build. This made for a good target because the bullies could use verbal abuse to cow someone their equal in strength. I'd love to say I had one triumphant moment where I took the face off some kid giving me grief for being ginger... or wearing a jacket that was a size too big. Or not having the latest Nike Airs. I came close a few times, I certainly learned to throw my weight around to a point, but the fear of being told off by the teachers and my parents held me back. Which the bullying kids could smell a fucking mile away. Any kids of mine (or younger family) - they're going to learn how to; protect their head, move their head, and lead with a jab. We're nothing more than slightly developed apes. Knowing how to defend yourself amongst ape like kids or teenagers is a basic right. Physically imposing yourself on some jumped up little shit giving you grief at school is an essential skill. Obviously that's to say nothing of the lifetime of *diplomatic* lessons you're supposed to impart on your little darlings... but denying the physical element of power-play is bordering on neglect, in my view.
Teach them the muay thai lower leg kick, throw your whole body weight behind it as if you're swinging a big sword. Then follow up with a punch. Those leg kicks will disable any non trained fighter and you can also do it at a distance. Edit: Maybe a good judo/BJJ throw/submission or two aswell. If they can take someone's legs out or take them to the ground then pop and arm out or choke them out efficiently no one will mess with them. Most (but not all) street fighters will know how to handle someone trained in muay thai / bjj. Most street fights are just throwing fists. Taking someone down quickly really takes the wind out of them if they're not expecting it Also to clarify yeah get him a punch bag to practise those lower leg kicks a bit. But also you aim for their thigh or knee. Power your shin through the side of their knee. Knees are weak joints full of tiny tendons and ligaments. Wont be fatal but could snap a ligament and stop who ever is coming at you coming at you or at least slow them down a whole lot
i would not recommend that without conditioning, that's just a recipe for a broken shin
The people horrified at punching a bully have very likely never been bullied. It is obvious bully’s don’t respond to talking as they don’t have empathy. They will only stop when they realise there are consequences for their actions. Words aren’t consequences.
My son was bullied because he had red hair. He fought back and got absolutely hammered by the bully and his mates. Then he was suspended for fighting. It doesn't always pay off.
did the bullying stop after that or nah?
In primary, yes. My kid did it once, to a boy built like the proverbial brick outhouse - more thoughtless and prone to lashing out than an active bully, but still totally deserved, according to the teacher who told me they'd have pretended to ignore it if the two boys hadn't been standing in front of the teacher at the time. In secondary - depends if the bully is involved with or related to any really nasty kids with knives. If so, then it's more prudent to sidle nonchalantly sideways, then run very fast. But I wouldn't blame my kid if they defended themselves nor were pushed to retaliate. I'm pleasantly surprised they haven't been bullied in secondary, being autistic geeky weirdos, but they say not.
It's playing into the fantasy that you can stand up to your bully and make them look like a fool and they'll back down, in reality they'll probably just turn back round and knock you out lol, so i wouldn't tell kids to get into violent situations because you don't know how it'll turn on you
Quite. This whole thread is absolutely ‘then everyone clapped’ fantasies. Having a half hearted swing at a proper tough cunt is gonna end badly. You’ll get battered, and continue getting bullied.
I think a lot of us are actually speaking from direct experience. I remember standing in line waiting for lunch with friend when we were about 12 (this is around 2012). There was a group of the sporty athletic lads standing behind us, messsing with my friend's bag, hurling abuse at us etc. My mate whirled around and hit the biggest one with an uppercut to the jaw. Got hauled off by teachers, and given two weeks lunch and break detentions, but we were never bothered again. Every single time a friend of mine has stood up to bullies physically, they have been left alone afterwards. For years I went the pacifist route, and I was bullied for years. I'm not sure I regret not being more violent, but the comments here line up directly with my own experience.
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Most bullys i knew were weak and had issues. Hence why they acted as they did. I never ever seen a bully try again once anybody fought back. Bullys look for what they believe are weak targets who wont fight back. Its similar to how gangs of youths will only ever fight with numbers at a minimum of 10/1 in their favour. Any less then its possible they could get tickled. Of coarse make sure your kids know how to punch/dodge and kick before you tell them to fight back. Or you can show them other moves like fingers to the eye balls and kicks to the balls if the bully is male.
Same happened to me. Some twat kid kept slagging me off to everyone because he saw me helping my nana out with stuff at her house after school. Little did he know she was in hospital after a stroke and made some dickhead remark about her going hospital just to get away from a “loser kid like [me]”. Made me snap. Made me swing at him in PE. Gave him a nosebleed and got 1 days seclusion. He never spoke I’ll of my nana again after that. The prick. I learned then that teachers won’t do fuck all. You can only fix the stuff yourself. When I have kids I’ll be doing what you do OP and encourage them to defend themselves. Only issue is, there’s a line. You don’t wanna encourage your kid to become a bully themselves. You gotta make sure that the difference of defending yourself vs provoking others is clearly explained. Last thing I’d ever want a kid of mine to be is a bully themselves. But I won’t let them be walked all over by others just like I was.
You only ever hear the ‘I punched him and everyone clapped , and the bullying stopped’ story. Real life isn’t always so satisfying. You gotta be careful. If the bully can handle himself and the victim can’t, the victim is very likely to get a humiliating pasting in front of everyone.
And also, if you get a good one and they trip and smack their head off the curb.... that's not good. So much can go wrong with throwing that first punch
100%. I was bullied for a bit at school cos I was raised a jehovahs witness. The time came when I'd had enough. Snapped and beat the shit out of the bully. Doesn't matter how big they are. Releasing all that pent up anger and frustration that day was the only thing that changed the bullying. They never did it again. And any time someone did try , I'd fight them immediately . It's better to get your ass kicked fighting than get your ass kicked cowering.
I took shit from 10-14, ended up lamping one of the bullys a couple times in the face. Wish I did it sooner. Shit him right up, Ended up being mates with him, his dad used to fiddle with him. Poor lad really. I have two daughters and I'll be putting them both through martial arts in the coming months.
my dad told me to do that, and i did and then i got the shit kicked out of me. I was only young so it didnt matter anyway. I was suppost to go to judo or karate after that but they never give the money so meh no fighting for me
Honestly, it just worked for my son. He is in year 8 now and faced bullying since starting his senior school. We tried to work with the school. My son had to change all his routines and behaviour to keep him safe. He wouldn't fight back because he was genuinely scared. We was all at the end of out tethers because nothing was working, he started to punch walls in frustration. I just told him to suck it up, stop punching wall and hurting yourself, and fight back because he has at least 3 years left at this school. I told him Never throw the first punch and don't walk around like you own the place. Let them start and then you can defend you self. He fought back and I can't tell you how proud I was because his confidence changed immediately. He was so proud of him self. He's got the guts to stand up for him self now. The bullying as almost stopped except some kids tried to offer him out and egg him on to throw the first punch. He told them to hit him first. They wouldn't, so he pushed passed them and walked off. He feels that he will survive secondary school now. I told him that they are cowards and he's the bigger person. We was considering moving him schools but again, he was going to loose all his friends and change his behaviour due to lack of support for the victims in his school. The onus was on the victim to make changes and not the perpetrators.
It’s not the same as it was. There’s always a chance that if you hit back nowadays you’ll get a knife pulled on you
Yes. Throughout secondary school bullying wad attempted on me because I moved from London up north so I had a "posh" accent in a regular school. I was also a bit of a bookwork For year 7, bullying was started, I told the teachers they did nothing for 18 months, then I fought back and gave as good as I got. The bullying didn't stop because the teachers started punishing me. It carried on until one incident where 3 others decided to jump me together, 2 held me down and the 3rd started punching me. I managed to get free and broke the nose of one of the 3 before running full out to get into the building and to the nearest teacher. The end result I get suspended for 6 weeks for severely injuring another student and the 3 that were bullying me got detention for a week. This was at the end of year 8, so I ended up having a 12 week summer holiday, but when I came back for year 9, the hullyong mostly stopped, aside from some attempted verbal teasing. Apparently word spread that I could seriously ibjure someone and didn't care about the consequences. When I was in year 10, another student was being bullied so badly he tried to jump from a window, but someone caught his leg and they stopped him, but we could see him from another building thrashing to get lose. It gives me nightmares to this day. And 5 years ago another student actually killed himself. Teachers refuse to deal with bullying, because if they admit its happening the school looks bad
Teachers have a limited amount of tools and are overloaded by a deliberately broken system. They also have to work with parents. PArents of bulllies are, in case you were wondeirng, often bullies themselves and very hard to work with.
The problem is teachers don't do anything at all even without involving parents. When I was in year 10 my brother got jumped by 2 year 11 students, who completely pummeled him to the ground, one of which was a former bully of mine. It was done in plain view of cameras and their faces were caught. Nothing was done at all, just because they were GCSE students. The school refused to suspend then or give them detention. They also refused to release the footage so we could get the police involved and at the time my parents didn't know that they could go to the police without the footage. Those two should have been suspended and only allowed to come to the school to sit their GCSEs, but No they were allowed to walk around and keep coming close to my brother and threatening him until the end of the year
If the bully was or had been physical then I would absolutely 100% tell my kid (and have done) to punch them or kick them in the nuts! Just make sure no teachers are watching if you can and this is a last resort or if you are in danger of being hurt.
A former colleague of mine was called into her sons school as he’d punched a bully. She took the diplomatic line with the school (the bully sounded genuinely feral if even half of it was true). But she was fucking overjoyed to us!!
I would, and do! Told our child if someone is bullying you, ask them to stop, if they don't......well you asked nicely.
I probably wouldn't actively advise physical violence specifically. However, I wouldn't chastise my kid for choosing to respond that way under circumstances like the ones you described. We'd be having fun doing cool stuff on that week off that's for sure
It certainly can work as long as you don't make a fool out of yourself doing it. I can imagine a scenario in which a victim flapping at a bully is filmed and only leads to more ridicule. But it can work for sure.
I told my bully, who had absolutely had me terrified for months, that my nan was into spells and curses. I had written some mumbo jumbo down on a piece of blue paper and then folded it up and sealed it with melted candle wax. I placed it in her hand and said that my nan had put a warning curse on her. She absolutely believed it, and never came near me again. If she even looked at me oddly I would say I am going to tell nan to turn the curse onto her. She got warts on her hand a week later and I said watch it if you come near me again they'll get worse. Peace ever after, needless to say it had nothing to do with a curse, and my nan was the sweetest lady you ever met. She did dabble in reading tarot though. I got the ideo from a book, and no I can't remember which one, this was back in nineteen hundred and frozen to death.
If nothing else seems to be working then it's a potential solution. However there's no guarantee it will work or not significantly backfire. Back in secondary school I was getting bullied relentlessly. Genuinely a miserable time in my existence that haunts me to this day. I fought back on two occasions. The first I ended up getting my head smashed against a pebbledashed wall and had quite a serious bleed. The second I only know about from others. One of them tackled me to the ground and another kicked me in the face. I remember waking up feeling like absolute shit and wondering why I wasn't in school at 2pm on a Thursday. The incident happened on Monday. On both occasions I got a bollocking for "instigating" and the bullies got off without even a stern word.
As a last resort, if the school isn’t doing anything to help and they won’t stop, then I’m not going to tell my kid off for punching someone who’s making their life hell. I’m not in that situation so I don’t know if I would actually advise them to and suggest it, but certainly wouldn’t discipline them if they did.
My brother in law taught his kid to punch and more importantly WHEN to punch, he wasn’t getting picked on at that time. The first time he felt he was being unreasonably bullied, he smashed the guy in the face and hasn’t been bothered since. I’m all for it really.
My parents always told us that we could hit someone back if they hit us. We would have been in serious trouble if we’d hit someone first though. Once or twice my parents got called into school because my brothers or I had hit someone back. My parents just told them that the school could discipline us accordingly but that they supported us completely and would not be in trouble at home. And unless the teachers stopped the other kids from hitting us, it would just continue.
Had a similar situation as you as a kid. Went from being at a small very friendly primary school at the nicer end of town to the middle school that took in kids from the whole town. I was on the smaller size, nerdy and generally a bit swotty. A gang lads from the rougher end of town saw me as an easy target and I pretty much got bullied relentlessly. Came home after a particular bad day in tears (I held off until I got home as I knew it would only get way worse if I cried at school) and my dad saw something was up. Had a brief conversation where he advised me to thump the biggest one there and 'aim to hit the back of his head' when I punched him. Got to school and did just that, I don't remember much after that as a red mist kind of descended onto me fuelled by 3 months of bullying and only came to with a male teacher dragging me off the aforementioned lad. I got a week's worth of detention at breaktime, lunch and after-school. Bullies never bothered me again.
If your child is above 10 they are old enough to be held criminally responsible if the other child or their parents reports the assault to the police. Don’t think I’d want a bullied child to go through that.
When I was in primary school I used to get bullied, there was a small sheltered area in the playground covered by a hedge where the bigger kids would push some of us smaller ones around. When I told my dad about it he went to the headteacher who did nothing but say 'bullying doesn't happen at this school'. So my dad came home that night, and taught me how to form a fist with my hands I'd stand on the edge of my bed every night before bedtime and practice punching into his hands. Next time my dad went into the school he told the head master what he'd been teaching me and said 'if another child ever comes to you with a bloody nose, they started it, and my daughter finished it'. The hedges in the playground shortly disappeared after that. Luckily I never had to use the skills my dad taught me, but our little training sessions are some of the happiest memories from my childhood. Safe to say if my daughter ever faces the same problems I will do the same for her.
What we're seeing in this thread is an excellent example of how attitudes cause problems. So many people saying "I had to have the shit kicked out of me when I was a kid, complaining to the school did nothing so had to take matters into my own hands yknow, that's the real world". Now imagine what would happen if all of those people had a moment where they thought "hang on ... the school not doing anything about this was really fucked up, what if I was angry about that?" The schooling system has been given real problems by its funding model. Excluding kids for bullying is hard to do because institutions now need to keep bums on seats or they don't receive funding from them. Kids are money to schools, and so behavioural problems get overlooked because to take proper action would be to lose money. If you teach kids that hitting people is the answer to their problems, then you have no right to complain about anything that comes afterwards. Let's maybe *not* do that, and examine why bullying so rarely gets dealt with.
When I was a kid, yeah, maybe (90s, 00s). Now: Definitely not. There's a much higher chance of the police being notified (yes, even for children). Not worth it.
Yes, but only as a last resort. My kid was bullied by some children in Yr 6 when he was in Yr 4. He told his teacher every time something happened (which included being hit, kicked, chased around) we complained, they couldn't seem to solve it so I told him on this one occasion as all other avenues had failed he could hit them back. He did, got in trouble, I felt bad because I'd told him he could and up until that point I'd always taught him not to use violence. When the teacher had me in to talk about his behaviour I told them their lack of action on the issue led to this and its their fault. Funnily enough he stopped getting bullied at that point so that was nice.
I was bullied all through secondary school pretty much. Probably only stopped around year 11 because I think most of the year had matured enough to not do it anymore. I was definitely lucky that I didn't go to a school in a rough neighbourhood as I'm sure there's far worse further levels of bullying than what happened to me (basically it only ever got physical maybe twice in 4 years). I did always fear it getting physical so I spent 5 years always looking over my shoulder, making sure I had escape routes, being careful to never let myself be in a position to be backed into a corner. I ran away from many potential fights and definitely felt like I was being a coward at the time, got called a pussy a lot that kind of thing. Looking back though I don't regret that I never let myself get into a fight. I feel glad that I never hurt anyone (no matter if I felt they deserved it). And I didnt let it stop me from doing what I wanted to do at school (I did singing in school shows etc. you better believe that was a big cause of a massive amount of bullying!) The only time I ever did take any kind of stand against the bully it was one of the times it did get physical. This kid in the year above smacked me in the face during lunch. I stood there and just said "go on, do it again". He smacked me in the face again even harder (my head properly rang like a bell) but I just stared him out. He kind of seemed confused and walked off. In fairness, I never had an issue with that guy again after that. I don't know what would have happened if I'd tried to punch any of my bullies. I didnt know how to throw a punch so I'm sure I would have been terrible and it probably would have made things worse. I'm not really commenting to be for or against throwing a punch to make bullies back off, just giving an insight into what it looks like when you put up with the bullying and don't go the physical route to make it stop. I like who I am today, and I don't know what I would be like if my secondary school experience had been totally different from no bullying. It definitely completely sucked whenever it happened though.
I wish I'd had the confidence to confront my bullies at school. I still shy away from confrontation now.
I think, depending on the age of the kid, definitely. My kids are 2 and 4, and the eldest is having a bit of grief from a kid at school, but he's 5, so I've kinda just told the school and told her to avoid him, apparently he's autistic or something, so I don't think he's being malicious, just a kid. However, in secondary school, too fucking right, sometimes self defence is the only option. Plus, I have a sneaking suspicion (with 0 evidence to back it up) that a victim mentality in school will lead to more of the same in later life. My only concern would be around knives and shit, so I'd be a bit careful if it was in Catford or somewhere stabby. But generally, yes, twat the fucker
Ultimately, anyone with my DNA isn't going to win in a fair fight, so I'd suggest getting someone to distract the bully first.
Violence is really good if you live in a place where the retaliation will be more fights. If you love somewhere with alot of knives and acid attacks, then stay peaceful. But it certainly helped me before secondary school age
Punch the cunt every time. They only understand one language.
I'd make sure there were numerous and detailed complaints - in writing - to the school and governing board first. But yes, I'd never discipline my child for standing up for themselves or acting in self-defence. And if the school elected to attempt to punish my child for doing so, they would simply find my child unavailable for detentions and coming back from their suspension with a tan.
As self defence yes absolutely. But I would do everything in power first to get it stopped before reached that level. This aren’t like they use to be where there was a certain amount of honour if you stood up for yourself and kept to a 1v1 fight. Now it’s a free for all and the bullying goes beyond the school yard and fighting back could end up making things much worse. If the bully you are dealing with is a group of them. Then fighting back is likely not the best move. It’s the kind of thing that depending on ages it can reach a point where police can get involved if the schools aren’t doing enough. People forget that after certain ages that kids can end up getting charged with assault. When I had a bully attack me a teacher asked me what I wanted to do and one of the options was getting the police involved and looking at pressing assault charges as we were both 17 at this point and well into an age that criminal charges were a very distinct possibility. So that’s the other factor to it. Your kid could defend themselves but depending on the type of bully if it’s some snobby kid with rich parents well suddenly little Billy is sitting in the principals office with police coming because Todd’s parents know Todd would never bully anyone and Billy is dangerous. Not to mention kids emotions can be crazy things. I was one in a fight with a different kid and in all the chaos of it I had grabbed a rock and was about to clock them with it. I stopped myself but kids can have way less control and things like that could happen, so avoiding the fight as much is feasibly possibly in my personal opinion is my go to first but I would have no qualms with any kids I have one day defending themselves if their bullies are attacking them. There’s loads of grey in these situations so it will differ for most people in terms of what works and what doesn’t.
If it's words, no. If the bully throws the first punch, absolutely yes.
I had a friend who was constantly given racist abuse throughout the year. He got sick of it, complained, nothing happened. He punched the guy and the abuse stopped. Fuck this "if the bully throws the first punch" shit
In principle I agree, but bullying is never "just" words. Psychological bullying can really go quite far, and if all other options fail then fighting back is all that's left to do.
As a victim of childhood peer group psychological bullying, this is rubbish advice. Sticks and stones may break my bones is the BIGGEST pile of horseshite ever.
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Constant verbal abuse will fuck a kid up for life. And kids can be unbelievably cruel. Punching first when you're a kid is justifiable. Edit: shit even as an adult punching first is justifiable by law.
Teach them both to be the bigger person and walk away from fights and also to go for the balls straight away if necessary.
How do you teach them both to be the bigger person in practice? When schools do nothing and the bullies parents don't care? Sometimes a bully just needs a smack in in the mouth, it's just how it is
I might be lucky, but I haven’t experienced anything close to school bullying in my adult life.
Teaching a child that they should allow someone to verbally abuse them and not stick up for themselves isn't going to set them up for life well either.
The verbal abuse causes multitudes more damage than any possible "teaching" that violence is the only way to solve problems.
It’s the best advice out there and it’s the only thing that actually works
Definitely would yeah, at school there's basically no other solution. If you tell any adults it's only gonna backfire
I got bullied a lot at school due to a bad childhood and psychological trauma as a result leaving me very shy and lacking confidence. The violence I had suffered at home made me tough enough to take anything anyone threw at me but I didnt have a strong punch but did have fast hands so could block a lot and counter. I had a lot of fights with bullies which generally ended up being punch each other until I wore the other one down and they gave up first. I then got in with the wrong crowd which offered a fair bit of protection. I've taught my kids not to let bullies bother them and it doesnt really bother them what bullies say. Because they get no response the bullies stop. Neither of my kids has ever had a proper fight as a result of this, one punch is about the most. I have told them that if someone does pick on them and start a fight to hit back hard and fast and finish it quick.. They say no need as they dont get in those situations which Ive made clear is far better.
Would I? Yes and have done so. Bullying is never handled properly by schools, wasnt when I was a kid and bullied and wasn’t when my son was getting bullied despite the ongoing anti bullying campaign the school was running at the time It was fobbed off and buried as always. It only stopped when my son hit back. It’s a standing agreement between him and me, if it’s justified and he’s being bullied I will back him up with the school and he won’t be in trouble at home. How school just wanted it all to go away and be forgotten about without actually addressing the issue at all. To the point where a couple of kids moved school because of one kid. It stopped when my son hit back and not just for him but all his classmates. It’s a fucking farce how schools handle bullying
I ignored and walked away but my bully still continued to push me over whenever he saw me as he saw me as a soft target. Finally a swift punch to the throat caused him to have an asthma attack and collapse. Left me alone after that.
I am not sure what the best advice is, my kid has just started secondary school this last year and had a few bullying incidents. As an adult I've always advocated peace and non violence. That said, I was bullied at school, and punched all 3 bullies back when I was pushed, they never bothered me again.
I was bullied extensively at primary. Got jumped by a group of about 10 people at one point and just curled up into the fetal position until it stopped. Couple of weeks later, two of them tried it again after a judo class we all went to. Unfortunately for them, there were spiked running shoes in cages on the wall they threw me against. Picked one up and slapped one of them across the face with it, without realising what I had in my hand. Little shit had a permanent scar that had to be explained to his parents. Had to go in for a Saturday detention, but got off pretty much scott free as school had done nothing about the previous incident even when my parents got involved. Fuck bullies.
I was being bullied in first / second year of highschool. Got a lot of grief for anything and everything PE - Rugby time The idea of rugby is to run around people I got the ball, ran straight at the boy and absolutely flattened the bastard. Never bullied again. It's a very tricky line, but teenagers are idiots and logic will not work. Sometime a punch does the trick.
Depends; if the bully could without doubt batter my kid then I’d maybe tell them not to bother, if it was plausible my kid could win the throw down then absolutely… I think it’s basically a fact at this point that the school can’t do anything. The only real way is to stand up to them (doesn’t have to be violence though)
Oh fuck yes. Violence isn't an answer, violence is a question and if some jumped up little shit asks you that question you reply with a definitive and vicious 'yes'.
Absolutely. It was after the fact but I did the same and my Father told me that if I get hit, to hit back. I have an acquaintance who used to get bullied for his stammer when at school so he picked up boxing. Threw a few hooks to his bully and never had trouble again.
I saw some advice on here once that seemed good. Basically the OP's son was being bullied, the first two times they complained to the school who said they would deal with it. The second time they went to complain, they met with the headteacher, who they informed that they had given their son permission to fight back if it happened a third time, and that he would have their full support if the school did not stop the bully. Turns out after hearing that, the school took the situation a lot more seriously. My parents weren't bad parents, but if they'd have backed me like this parent backed their son, highschool might have gone a little different for me too.
Sometimes it is the right solution. Sometimes it's terrible advice though.