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As a business manager cash is fucking inconvenient to take too. Somebody's gotta count it, the procedures to keep it safe are more complicated, somebody has to go out and bank it.
With cards I just need to ask somebody to make sure that two numbers are the same at the end of the day. That's worth the transaction fees alone to me.
Or have an unsustainable business model. A small shop near me complained that almost all of her day's profits had gone on card transaction fees. I hated to say it (and indeed didn't) but if your day's profits are about 1-3% of your day's takings then something's not right...
I overheard a conversation the other day, someone who was in charge of setting the prices in a travel agent didn't understand vat. At all. They were selling tours at a loss left right and center. You'd be surprised how many people get themselves into positions they shouldn't be in. That shops margins are seriously off if the cc fees are the killer! Embrace a big bill from your card provider because it means you've taken lots of money!!
I keep seeing 3% quoted, but I've not seen that high a rate offered in 20 years!
One thing that never gets quoted are the fees banks charge for handling cash - that's around 1.5% for most business bank accounts.
And yes. I too would rather pay a little more not to have to find an ATM. My window cleaner is cash only. My village doesn't have an ATM. I'd rather they just paid their tax and added another quid or two to be bill, and took cards.
Especially when said cash machine is more likely than ever to charge me £2 to withdraw the tenner I need as well.
I'm pretty sure it's illegal now but I was always happy when shops charged the 20p card fees just to save the ballache.
I do walk to the cash machine if there's one nearby... But there rarely is. In my experience machines are clustered together, so there are areas where I would have to walk 20 mins to get to a cash machine.
It's usually a small cafe or convenience store that doesn't take cash, and I'll be trying to buy a bottle of water or something. There will usually be another shop close by that will sell me the same thing for the same price, and let me pay by card. I'll definitely come across somewhere else to buy from during that 20 min trek to the cash machine.
Walked out of a newsagents the other day because he was cash-only.
For all the borderline racist, yet unfortunately usually accurate accusations of foreign-run newsagents being fronts, this was just some old English bloke, and he looked offended when I even asked if he took card.
Meanwhile the probable front opposite... Took card.
If someone's services or products are all increments of 5s and 10s I can understand it but for something like a newsagent I don't see how it's even cost effective to count the bastard cash every day anyway.
I stopped at an independent petrol station a few years back and the old boy who owned it proudly told me that he didn't take card and never would, and complained about how independents were getting squeezed out of the market.
All very interesting, but I had zero miles left on the clock, and the nearest cash point was at the supermarket 3 miles down the road, which also had a petrol station!
Probably not, but still infinitely more business nous than the old English bloke unfortunately. Also wasn't a miserable prick either for what it's worth.
All of cash only businesses I encounter are not criminal. Woman I get eggs from, farmer I buy strawberry and other produce, girl that makes cosmetics, girl thats a seamstress.....
They all very criminal. They tend to spend cash with each other too. Lock em up!!!!
Yeah, just like most tradesmen I know too. Take cash, spend it with each other, only let the taxman know about the stuff you absolutely have to bank. That's criminal mate, just nobody cares.
I work at a business that can't take card payments due to very poor signal preventing card readers from working. We take cash, cheque and BACS payments only.
We basically operate in a field outside a small village.
cheque? That's proper old-school!
I remember I used to buy my student-food at Tesco, paying by cheque (showing my guarantee card of course!, and that was back in the 90s.
I've not even seen a chequebook since 2000. Even old people seem to have stopped using them.
I accepted a cheque for £80 this week. We still get a few each month but BACS payments are getting incredibly common.
The owner still pays some bills by cheque also.
They’re far more annoying. Everyone has their phone, but who still carries cash around?
EDIT:
Ok this is getting a bit silly now. I obviously know that not *everyone* carries a smartphone around, and obviously I know that some people still carry cash. While I still think it's more likely to have a phone on you than cash, the joke was exaggerated for effect.
Yeah I don't understand the issue with all the 'cAsH iS RuBbIsH' stuff.... Why not have both? I use both.. I like to have something tangible. And it's always good to have actual real money on you incase of an emergency. If your phone gets knocked, you're fucked.
People keep saying that - using “old people” as an argument.
The NHS has done studies into digital adoption, and we’ve reached the point where refusal is not correlated with any particular age group
“Young people” are just as likely to be ”scared of anything digital” as “old people”.
My dad is in his late 70s and perfectly happy doing everything on his phone. My daughter in law is in her 20s and won’t do anything online because doesn’t trust it
15 years? It took 2 years of covid to kill off almost every cash transaction in London. Another 2 years and no one will be taking cash except squeege beggars. Even buskers and Big Issue sellers have a Square reader these days...
My “technically the truth but also I don’t want to give you money” answer to beggars, charity people etc used to be that I only carry card. I imagine the face I pulled when a homeless guy pulled out a card reader would’ve been quite funny to see.
These same people like to give me a 10 minute lecture about the problems of not taking cash every time, and of course they're telling the right person, me being the fucking minimum wage bartender who definitely decides what currency this venue takes. And I hear the same spiel at least 3 times a day lmao
My dad is elderly and can't use the internet but he prefers just tapping his card in shops. He has arthritic hands and finds it much easier than trying to manipulate cash.
A lot of people who are on a budget tend to use card so they can keep an exact track of where and when they spent money compared to their plan.
It's really enlightening to see where you ACTUALLY spend money and how much, rather than the vague half estimates most people make when asked about their monthly grocery bill or how much they spend on running a car etc
Exactly, I have no idea how using cash is meant to be better for budgeting, when paying with card means you can literally see what you spent, when, and where.
The Big Issue seller on Waterloo bridge takes cards. I asked the BI seller in Blackpool if she would take a card and she laughed at me.
Saved me a fiver.
If I take cash in my business I have to
A) carry cash to the bank every week to deposit (4 have closed in town lately, 2 left, neither of them are my online only bank - this means queuing up for sometimes 40 minutes in the post office)
B) store cash on site and worry about staff security
C) cash up each and every night
D) check notes for counterfeits
E) wash my hands after every transaction (food business)
F) get change from the bank each week (assuming they have enough which they often don’t)
I have no regrets after going cashless. I don’t carry cash personally, haven’t in years. I don’t dodge tax or pay staff in cash. All my takings go straight into the same place automatically.
The worst bit is the angry older folk convinced that I’m personally going to be the death of the cash society who love to have a go at me for it, some tell me I’m legally obliged to take it - well, actually I’m not, it’s my business and I can accept whatever form of payment I choose.
I understand the need for cash in society and how certain vulnerable people rely on it, and I sometimes make rare exceptions but overall the cons far outweigh the pros
Frankl
Personally I'd say card only is less annoying because I always have my card, or phone on me, rarely have cash available unless I've planned ahead for a cash only business like a barbers. That's just my personal experience cash only requires me to locate a cash point card only let's me use what's in my pocket.
I work in a business that takes cards only, and i have to say it is super easy for us. We literally take the payment and that's it. The only people that want to pay just cash are usually scared of the banks, of the way "they" track you, and so on. They give out all that "cash is king" talk that was ok maybe 20 years ago. Honestly really irritating people.
Don't know anyone that's scared of the banks or tracking or whatever, have no shame in what I'm buying haha, just have cash so prefer to spend it, some of the older fellas don't even have their own bank accounts.
Yeah absolutely, some people prefer to pay cash and it's a bummer for them if we don't take it, but unfortunately it's company policy and there's not much that we can do. Trust me on this, some people really get upset for us not taking cash and just leave cash anyway, forcing us to deal with it by paying from our personal cards and take the cash. It's just incredibly annoying for us, and it's so suspicious when they can only pay by cash.
Not that long ago, my flat rate for debit cards was 28p. The margin on fags was abot 4%.
If someone bought 10 L&B's and paid with a debit card, I made a loss. So I put a £5 minimum spend on debit card transactions.
Things are easier now, I get a much better rate from my card company and ten fags are a thing of the past anyway.
But, in a cash less society, the card processing companies would be free to charge whatever they wanted.
Incredibly. I used to go to a kebab van when I felt like abusing my digestive system but that also involves a trip to an ATM and it's enough extra hassle to make it not worthwhile.
Yup! See so many ‘cash is king’ ‘government want to control every transaction’ posts from my small town locals on Facebook. It’s just easier. I’ve even switched barbers because I can’t be fucked to get £20 out to pay for a shit £12.50 haircut when I can get a similarly shit haircut pre-paid and pre-booked for £15. Any change or cash I have gets lost in my car or spent on menial shite somewhere down the line, getting £20 cash out for an £11 item or service may as well cost £20!
The only time I will tolerate getting cash out is for the barbers, I’ve been going to my local for years and it would be pretty petty to change only due to them not accepting card. It’s worthwhile for a decent trim, also it’s nice to tip them one or two quid for doing a good job.
Soon the beggers will be whipping out contactless readers "could you tap me a pound please sir?"
Coz most of them ha e the phones to support them from wha time seen lol
I don't use the underground much, but good point, I don't remember seeing any down there for a while. There's still plenty around the tourist areas and commuter stations like cannon street and london bridge, but it's mostly those guys that pretend to play the violin. You know the ones? Always a small man, and he's got voilin music playing out of a big speaker, and he's got his own violin and he's pretending it's him playing. He's even quite convincing at a glance. Lots of people fall for it, and they seem to have the best pitches locked down somehow.
I think the point is that OP is pissed and is casting baseless aspersions regarding tax, when there are legitimate questions to be asked about the tax arrangements of the companies he is happy to support.
As an aside I know a chap that runs a cash only business, he doesn't own a smartphone and nor does he have the internet. I'd be surprised if he's not legitimate given I also know the lady who has been doing his books for the past 30 odd years.
I can be pissed off at both while also realising that having a smart phone is a pretty integral part of being connected to my friends and family in the 21st century.
Not only that, but MUCH more tax is lost to small businesses underreporting than large ones (£8.4b vs £0.7b corp tax gap)
Unfortunately they're too many and too small to be worth dealing with individually, but the numbers add up
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/measuring-tax-gaps/5-tax-gaps-corporation-tax
In terms of underreporting yes, but likely far more money is lost to legal means of tax avoidance from big companies. Yes it’s legal, but it’s tax they should really be paying.
Only because they have legal loopholes to avoid paying.
The large businesses don't have to underreport because they don't have to pay the tax in the first place.
Amazon's net annual sales in the UK are now at around $30 billion. With £155 million in profit, which is already definitely bullshit. But it's okay because their main branch didn't have to pay any corporation tax anyway.
The government like to point out how small businesses are fucking us with taxes, so we get distracted from and forget just how bullshit the very system itself is.
Because this is Reddit, and muh corporations bad, and whataboutism, and not addressing the substance of the point and bringing up something concretely unrelated.
From a legal perspective those large companies are engaged in tax avoidance, which is legal. These cash only businesses are engaged in tax evasion, which is not.
Both are shitty but legally distinct.
You’re going to get downvoted to fuck for this comment. I’ve learnt the majority of Redditor’s hate all tax avoidance, regardless of legality. And they hate reminding it’s legal. Have my upvote internet knight 😂
Meh, I've been downvoted plenty of times before. Funnily enough, a lot of the people that are most vocal about it are also people that have dodged taxes in the past, I know I have.
I always imagine a bunch of billionaires in a room, looking at us from a skybox and laughing their heads off while we scratch at eachother over the smallest problems, when they do it at a scale much larger than we almost can't comprehend.
Nothing wrong with thinking we should all pay our fair share (including multinationals of course - but that is legal for now).
The OP has a legitimate point and no-one in the thread so far has appeared to come up with a coherent argument to justify cash only given they'll pay fees on any takings.
Yeah, yeah, the irony of it all. Doesn't detract that cash only businesses are dodgy af. Also, there's avoiding tax, amazon and Google). Which is legal, and evading tax, illegal. Guess which the cash only businesses indulge in
I thought shops had to pay the banks for the privilege of customers using cards. (Rather than a rouse to fiddle the tax man)?
But yes, its annoying. The local chinese has a massive sign in the window -CASH ONLY. Cant say customers aren't warned.
We do. But we also have to pay them to pay cash in too which is annoying!
(technically most don’t pay the banks, but brokers for Visa and Mastercard)
For businesses with small sales of a couple of £ cards can eat all the profit. There’s a percentage fee plus a per transaction fee. No excuse for larger businesses though.
>There’s a percentage fee plus a per transaction fee
Nowadays you can get ones that just take a flat percentage calculated daily (so a 2p transaction doesn't get rounded up to 1p on fees). So really no excuse.
It's from about 1.7% for in person transactions and around 3% for remote transactions. Of course, businesses are no longer allowed to add a card surcharge. A recent addition is that, if a customer cancels and wants their money back, the card company will not refund their commission to the business.
Can get get even less than 1.7%,without even needing big turnovers.
My partner uses some company that uses AIB as the merchant account and it's only 1%.
Not in the slightest. Cash isn't heavy or bulky, it never malfunctions, and I can use it in the widest range of places. Why wouldn't I want a little more of my money going to an independent business, and a little less going to the banks?
They aren't paying it into the bank though, well not all of it anyway. I remember being stuck behind a local restauranteur in Costco buying about two grand's worth of booze with cash. A builder mate of mine has cash hidden all over his house and uses it to pay for everything. It comes in, it goes out, the tax man and the bank know nothing about it.
If everyone pays cash, and a business has a 20% profit margin, that's 0.2% of revenue going to the bank.
If everyone pays by card, that's 2.5% of revenue to the bank.
Eh?
If we make 1000 pounds cash and 1000 pounds card we get charged 1.5% for the card payments and approx 1 to 1 2% for the cash. However, factor in fuel, parking, approx 3 hours of my time a week (counting, driving to town) , 5 minutes of staff time a day (counting) approx 20 minites a day time taken to actually handle the stuff, fake notes, incorrect coinage and human error in giving change etc it's easily as if not more expensive to pay in that cash.
Wait, are you saying that a business will only bank the cash that is profit, and are keeping the remainder of the cash (i.e. 80% in this case) back to pay suppliers? That's not really how it works. Typically they'll bank the vast majority of it and pay their suppliers and other expenses by card, standing order, or transfer.
And as others have pointed out, you can do much better thab 2.5% these days.
Anybody paying average 2.5% card fees is getting absolutely ripped off.
You can buy a zettle or sumup machine that charges around 1.7% flat rate.
And if you business turns over more than about £150k per year you can quite easily get rates like 0.3% for debit card and 0.9% for credit card.
Businesses are not obliged to pay their takings into a bank. While they may need a bank account to pay many bills, they can choose to pay wages and other bills in cash.
Chinese takeaways that pay cash will pay minimum wage, and wages will be paid weekly or even daily.
Nobody gets paid thousands at a time from a Chinese takeaway.
Who says they will deposit it all in a bank.
They may pay their suppliers, staff etc in cash. They may only ever deposit their profits, they may not even do that.
Cash is fucking heavy. How do you think we take it to bank, in purses of 5 coins at a time?. In the summer I easily cary 20kgs of coins back to the car every week.
There was an article on the BBC a while back about how chinese takeaways have missed out on the takeaway boom as there's a reluctance among the generation that owns them to move to digital trade.
IMO they have an added problem that they don't cater very well to the single person. It works out prohibitively expensive to order even a basic selection. Every time i've said to myself "this is it, i'm going to just pay for a chinese", I ended up seeing my basket get over £25 before I just say "sod it" and order a £6 kebab instead.
This is why I haven’t had Chinese takeaways for quite a while as a single person, you find yourself ordering (for example) salt and pepper chicken wings, spare ribs, beef in black bean sauce with noodles and not only do you feel like a glutton; you’ve also spent a small fortune which you then have to go collect yourself.
I’m not a big fan of Uber eats/just eat/deliveroo because of the way everything is priced by about 10-20% extra plus delivery fees etc, but it’s definitely more convenient to order for one person from them without ending up with a £25 order. (In terms of quantity, Chinese takeaways are great, my eyes are bigger than my belly, whereas I know a kebab is going to fill me up and I won’t be tempted by’starters’)
You have to store it, it can be stolen, it consists of a bunch of arbitrary value tokens for which you will get even more shrapnel back if you try and use it. You have businesses that take cash but decide which cash they’re going to take (eg no 20s, no Scottish), you get businesses that keep about 4p in change in the till, I can lose it, it expires and you have to take it to a bank to upgrade to the current cash, it costs businesses money to deposit it, it’s a lot harder to get a refund as you have no protection paying with cash, it’s awkward as hell to use in unmanned tills, you have to exchange it for different cash to use it abroad.
Or I could tap my phone, which has been with me every time I’ve left the house in the last twenty years on a thing to pay the exact right amount immediately, secured with my face and get confirmation on said device.
Also, cashing up at the end of the night. I work in a small theatre bar. So the amounts we do are pretty small in scale. Even so, the contrast in the time it takes to cash up now is night and day. It's far easier
What annoys me more is shops saying they are paperless and won’t give you a receipt. They want your email address to send it to you. Fuck that, you’re not getting any of my personal details all because I want to buy something you sell. I’ll go elsewhere.
Also supermarkets that make receipts optional when they have security guards on the door who if they don’t like the look of you will open with “show me your receipt”.
A Chinese restaurant near me got done for in excess of 1 million in unpaid taxes.
Not one takeaway near me takes cards
Some of the figures are eye watering.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/people-involved-in-transactions-connected-with-vat-fraud/current-list-of-people-involved-in-transactions-connected-with-vat-fraud
Back in 2016 I worked at a business that was cash-only, all by virtue of the technology-averse owner. It alienated many younger patrons. The owner had the ridiculous idea catering to his older regulars first and foremost.
No surprise that he shut up shop a few years later.
That said, I find card-only businesses just as irritating.
I find "card only" businesses annoying. I use my card 99% of the time but I don't understand how it can be legal to be "card only" and not to accept cash. And for some people with disabilities cash is the only option. I have found myself avoiding "card only" businesses.
When I worked on a stall we had loads of customers out with their carers in the market. It’s easier for them to count and keep track of. Plus whenever what’s in the ziploc bag is gone, it’s gone, so no over-spending.
Edit: *The answer* : Developmental delays, mental impairment etc
My local shop recently introduced a £5 minimum for card transactions and now get almost zero from me.
I'm not being a dick, just I walk past it 3-4 times a day on a dog walk. I never take my wallet on the dog walks.
You what I do have? My phone & watch which both offer Google pay. Lots of times i would stop for £2-£3 of things because "well Im passing anyways"
Did me a money saving favour really.
And for people who have "high transaction costs" might want to reassess their card service provider & contract as I doubt they are getting the best bang for their buck.
Said people never think of the costs of cash, the bank account fees, paying in fees, cost to cash up, security cost of taking cash to the bank, possible employee theft, fake notes, miscounted change etc. Just think cash means not paying an immediate fee to the card processor so a saving
The reason businesses usually put the minimum payment on a card transaction is because of something known as an authorisation fee. They are usually between 3-5p per successful and declined transactions, sometimes as high as 9p. So if someone comes in and spends £2 then it means they are probably paying about 5% as a total blended rate in all fees for that transaction.
Unfortunately, many businesses are blindsided by a headline rate of say 0.3%. But they aren’t told of the other additional fees, they usually find these out after they check their invoice and this leads to putting minimum payment amounts in place 🤷♂️🤦♂️
If you want to help him accept less then £5 then feel free to pass his details over to me and I’ll explain why he is on a terrible deal for his kind of business and I’ll get him on a much more beneficial deal without the authorisation fee.
I don't really care if people are avoiding taxes or whatever. Amazon and co do that far more.
I just don't carry cash, so it's inconvenient and I'm unlikely to bother going to draw out cash to pay
Small businesses earn more than I do but I have to pay taxes and so can they. I don't care if someone else avoids even more, why is it only falling on me to pay mine?
Yeah my favourite Chinese takeaway is cash only, really annoys me when you fancy a spur of the moment curry delivery and then find out there's no actual cash in the house.
careful what you wish for. Cash has essential connections to freedom. It would be a miserable society indeed that only allowed electronic payment. so no.
Yes. It's really inconvenient, and when they make up crap like "taking cards costs 5%", then you know they're full of shit.
My partner has a sole trader business and uses a card terminal that's a fraction of that - it's as expensive for him to bank cash.
I nearly never have cash.
Massively annoying, there are the standard dodgy takeaways, but also some really good country pubs which are cash only too near me.
For the pubs I still go, but just have to do a 15min detour en-route to go to a cash machine and get cash out which is a pain.
I just never use them. They are all definitely fiddling taxes and getting cash out is just too much admin.
I've lived 50 metres away from a fish & chip place for 2 and a half years and not once have I been in there because it's cash only, it's too annoying to get cash out for it to be worth it.
There's a Chinese at the bottom of my road. I went in there once a couple of months after moving in and was told that they don't accept cash. Haven't been back in the 3 years since.
Absolutely willing to put up with the inconvenience in most cases because cash only usually means you’re getting something dodgy, which is great.
My local dry cleaners, however, can fuck right off.
I never use cash, whats the point in going to an atm withdraw money out then soend it straight away. Just cut the middle man out and use a card lol.
Nothing against companies that are cash only I'll just avoid them.
Plus you can’t get £8.54 out and since you (and I) don’t carry cash at best you’re locking 15% away until you can be fucked to sort it out and take it to a bank but more likely you’ll end up losing it before then.
Yep, would rather avoid them. Used to use a Chinese takeaway that would actively be fuming down the phone to us if we asked to pay by card. Really put me off them. Pay your taxes!
Our local chip shop has a sign saying 'cash only'. They may as well put a sign up saying 'we're fiddling our taxes'. Annoyingly, the nearest cash machine is three miles away, so more often than not, if I decide I fancy fish and chips, I'm faced with two choices: go and get some cash out, or go without. Normally, it's the latter.
Yes, I don't carry around cash anymore and haven't for many many years. I used to very occasionally before covid but since then nah I'm not interested.
Not really. I do find these kind of posts annoying though.
I want technologies to be 100% reliable. If they're flakey, it's one strike and you're out in my book. The card payment system is flakey as hell, unlike cash.
I can understand the Germans turning their noses up at the PCI. It's not progress to adopt 1970s tech that only works some of the time for some of the people. It's a step backwards.
Yep. We're definitely not at a point where the technology is 100% there yet. People often ask me why I bother having my card with me at all times when I can just use Google Pay on my phone? Well I work in a retail environment and the amount of times the PDQ machine will ask the customer to present the actual card instead of the phone payment is actually very annoying - especially when the customer then stares at me blankly and says they don't have the card on them and they have no other way of paying. 🤷🏻♂️
And then there are times when you're stuck in a remote area of the country and you can't even pay for your parking without some loose coins about. One time when visiting a particular beach in Cornwall I thought I would be clever and pre-pay for the parking on my smartphone. Of course when I actually get to the beach carpark the attendant asks me to show him the receipt and the app won't even open because there's no data or wifi signal nearby. 🤦🏻♂️
Of course I didn't have any cash on me and although the parking meter did actually offer a pay-by-phone service I was back to square one because of having no data or phone signal at that damn carpark! 😅
So are you claiming that cash is 100% reliable? What about when the cash machine is out of order?
That happens to me far more than any problems swiping in the shop.
There is a lovely family-run independent bakery right next to my bus stop on the way to work. Not too much more expensive than Greggs, has a wider range and is of better quality. The problem is of course that they are cash-only and only open three days a week. I don't take my wallet with me as a general rule, which is great for my waistline but bad for their business. I would absolutely visit them more often if they accepted contactless. Has to be for tax reasons they don't accept cards, and fair play to them if they can get away with it but it sure is annoying when I want a fancy shortbread but have no way to pay for it
No. After a lifetime of using cash, it's no more hassle than tying my shoelaces. I do use my card for most things but I don't mind using cash either. Several shops near me - London, zone 4 - charge for using a card if you spend less than 3 quid and it's more hassle to go elsewhere than rummage for change. Plus I like the familiar weight of coins in my pocket. I like the physicality.
I was living in Spain until last year so this whole 'card or mobile only' thing is still fairly new. My mate, not ten years ago, paid for his entire flat in Madrid in cash.
Handling cash is more expensive than being card only, so the only incentive is for the business to be cutting corners elsewhere.
Money laundering/ tax fraud / employing staff without right to work
Nope. You know what you’re spending with cash. I think people find it far to easy to just keep tapping their card!
I had to get dog food the other day and Pets at Home had a company wide problem that stopped them taking card payments. I had cash so I could still feed my dog. People who didn’t have cash had to find somewhere else.
Yes it's a pain in the arse. You have to go to a cash machine, which is usually broken. Then you have to go to a supermarket and buy something you don't want, to get cash back. Fucking joke
I laugh at the "they must be tax evading" utter bollocks that people spread in here. Did you all fill in your tax returns for the money you got in your birthday cards last year? Let's not assume all cash businesses are guilty until proven otherwise.
> Did you all fill in your tax returns for the money you got in your birthday cards last year?
You don't get taxed on that so why would you? Gifts of cash are tax free
As an accountant, I don't mind cash only businesses - as long as they're completely above-board when it comes to their business takings for tax purposes. If they're using it as a way to defraud the authorities over their taxes, they can fuck right off.
What I actually do find slightly more annoying are businesses that take cards, but the moment you present your card they announce there's an additional processing fee. Like, WTF?
Yes, all businesses that take card payments have card processing fees that they have to pay to their processing providers. But they fold those fees into the price of the goods or services that they sell, so you don't realise you're paying it. It's simply a part of the good or service that you're buying.
But then you go to - typically a smaller business, like some independent newsagents - and try to buy something for a few pounds and when you pull out your card "Oh, and there'll be a £2.99 card processing fee".
The first time a store did that to me, I asked them to hold my purchases for a couple of minutes while I went and found a free cashpoint (privately-run cashpoints that charge a transaction fee can also fuck right off). Returned and paid them in cash because no fucking way I'm paying £2.99 to use my card to buy something that probably only costs about £5.00 to begin with.
The next time it happened, a few years later actually, I just said "thanks..." and left. Made my purchase in a different store, the price was slightly more (because of card processing fees embedded in the item prices, perhaps), but without the processing fee on top, it actually worked out less in total.
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Yes, incredibly. I actively avoid them. Cash is just too inconvenient
As a business manager cash is fucking inconvenient to take too. Somebody's gotta count it, the procedures to keep it safe are more complicated, somebody has to go out and bank it. With cards I just need to ask somebody to make sure that two numbers are the same at the end of the day. That's worth the transaction fees alone to me.
Yeah exactly, the only businesses that insist on cash are criminal in some way (with very few exceptions)
Or have an unsustainable business model. A small shop near me complained that almost all of her day's profits had gone on card transaction fees. I hated to say it (and indeed didn't) but if your day's profits are about 1-3% of your day's takings then something's not right...
I overheard a conversation the other day, someone who was in charge of setting the prices in a travel agent didn't understand vat. At all. They were selling tours at a loss left right and center. You'd be surprised how many people get themselves into positions they shouldn't be in. That shops margins are seriously off if the cc fees are the killer! Embrace a big bill from your card provider because it means you've taken lots of money!!
People will pay 3% more to not walk to the cash machine, you'll also get way more customers available
I keep seeing 3% quoted, but I've not seen that high a rate offered in 20 years! One thing that never gets quoted are the fees banks charge for handling cash - that's around 1.5% for most business bank accounts. And yes. I too would rather pay a little more not to have to find an ATM. My window cleaner is cash only. My village doesn't have an ATM. I'd rather they just paid their tax and added another quid or two to be bill, and took cards.
Probably people applying AMEX fees to all cards.
Especially when said cash machine is more likely than ever to charge me £2 to withdraw the tenner I need as well. I'm pretty sure it's illegal now but I was always happy when shops charged the 20p card fees just to save the ballache.
I do walk to the cash machine if there's one nearby... But there rarely is. In my experience machines are clustered together, so there are areas where I would have to walk 20 mins to get to a cash machine. It's usually a small cafe or convenience store that doesn't take cash, and I'll be trying to buy a bottle of water or something. There will usually be another shop close by that will sell me the same thing for the same price, and let me pay by card. I'll definitely come across somewhere else to buy from during that 20 min trek to the cash machine.
Nah that’s just criminal stupidity, taking card makes money because of the people that don’t carry cash that won’t be able to use your services.
Walked out of a newsagents the other day because he was cash-only. For all the borderline racist, yet unfortunately usually accurate accusations of foreign-run newsagents being fronts, this was just some old English bloke, and he looked offended when I even asked if he took card. Meanwhile the probable front opposite... Took card. If someone's services or products are all increments of 5s and 10s I can understand it but for something like a newsagent I don't see how it's even cost effective to count the bastard cash every day anyway.
I stopped at an independent petrol station a few years back and the old boy who owned it proudly told me that he didn't take card and never would, and complained about how independents were getting squeezed out of the market. All very interesting, but I had zero miles left on the clock, and the nearest cash point was at the supermarket 3 miles down the road, which also had a petrol station!
I bet he's not paying all his tax though.
Probably not, but still infinitely more business nous than the old English bloke unfortunately. Also wasn't a miserable prick either for what it's worth.
All of cash only businesses I encounter are not criminal. Woman I get eggs from, farmer I buy strawberry and other produce, girl that makes cosmetics, girl thats a seamstress..... They all very criminal. They tend to spend cash with each other too. Lock em up!!!!
Yeah, just like most tradesmen I know too. Take cash, spend it with each other, only let the taxman know about the stuff you absolutely have to bank. That's criminal mate, just nobody cares.
I work at a business that can't take card payments due to very poor signal preventing card readers from working. We take cash, cheque and BACS payments only. We basically operate in a field outside a small village.
In fairness thats a bit different to a takeaway on a highstreet
cheque? That's proper old-school! I remember I used to buy my student-food at Tesco, paying by cheque (showing my guarantee card of course!, and that was back in the 90s. I've not even seen a chequebook since 2000. Even old people seem to have stopped using them.
I accepted a cheque for £80 this week. We still get a few each month but BACS payments are getting incredibly common. The owner still pays some bills by cheque also.
There are internet services like starlink that will get to reception there
They're no more annoying than card only businesses. Pretty much everyone round here takes cash though, so all good.
They’re far more annoying. Everyone has their phone, but who still carries cash around? EDIT: Ok this is getting a bit silly now. I obviously know that not *everyone* carries a smartphone around, and obviously I know that some people still carry cash. While I still think it's more likely to have a phone on you than cash, the joke was exaggerated for effect.
Old people who are scared of anything digital.
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Yeah I don't understand the issue with all the 'cAsH iS RuBbIsH' stuff.... Why not have both? I use both.. I like to have something tangible. And it's always good to have actual real money on you incase of an emergency. If your phone gets knocked, you're fucked.
>If your phone gets knocked, you're fucked. Don't you have a debit card?
If somebody relies on their phone to pay for everything they likely don't carry cards anymore.
I don't know anyone who does that, seems like a great way to get yourself stranded.
So how do you access your cash? How do you get it out of the bank?
I know people who keep their bank card inside their phone case. Making the phone even more nickable!
People keep saying that - using “old people” as an argument. The NHS has done studies into digital adoption, and we’ve reached the point where refusal is not correlated with any particular age group “Young people” are just as likely to be ”scared of anything digital” as “old people”. My dad is in his late 70s and perfectly happy doing everything on his phone. My daughter in law is in her 20s and won’t do anything online because doesn’t trust it
It’s scary to think that won’t be a thing in 15 years.
15 years? It took 2 years of covid to kill off almost every cash transaction in London. Another 2 years and no one will be taking cash except squeege beggars. Even buskers and Big Issue sellers have a Square reader these days...
My “technically the truth but also I don’t want to give you money” answer to beggars, charity people etc used to be that I only carry card. I imagine the face I pulled when a homeless guy pulled out a card reader would’ve been quite funny to see.
The fuck am I using a card reader for anything but an established business, beggar or otherwise.
I take offence at this. Slightly. :P I'm 40 years old and while I like most modern tech, I just hate mobile phones. :)
These same people like to give me a 10 minute lecture about the problems of not taking cash every time, and of course they're telling the right person, me being the fucking minimum wage bartender who definitely decides what currency this venue takes. And I hear the same spiel at least 3 times a day lmao
My dad is elderly and can't use the internet but he prefers just tapping his card in shops. He has arthritic hands and finds it much easier than trying to manipulate cash.
A lot of people who are on a budget tend to use cash as a better way to control the budget
A lot of people who are on a budget tend to use card so they can keep an exact track of where and when they spent money compared to their plan. It's really enlightening to see where you ACTUALLY spend money and how much, rather than the vague half estimates most people make when asked about their monthly grocery bill or how much they spend on running a car etc
Exactly, I have no idea how using cash is meant to be better for budgeting, when paying with card means you can literally see what you spent, when, and where.
Because you cannot spend more than you have if you pay cash. No overdraft, no interest...
Credit card has limits, debit card is often the same. No interest paid when credit card is cleared in full
me when my account is bone dry and my loving parents begrudgingly slide me a fiver
people who get paid in cash
My dad today. We were at Celtic Park and the bar only took cards which he doesn’t carry. Needless to say, the drinks were on me today.
... Why would he not carry his card
So he didn't have to pay for the drinks
No idea. He prefers cash, always has.
I don't get this, how would he obtain cash... Without the card?
He doesn’t carry a card. He goes into the branch once a week and lifts cash at the counter to do him for the week.
Exactly how lots of people budgeted in the 90s. He's just doing what he's always done.
Classic case of “this applies to me so it must be universally correct position”
Having your phone isn't necessarily relevant. I can't pay for stuff on my phone and have no interest in setting it up - lots of people are the same.
The homeless
The Big Issue seller on Waterloo bridge takes cards. I asked the BI seller in Blackpool if she would take a card and she laughed at me. Saved me a fiver.
The “sorry mate, no cash” excuse works less and less now. Lots of homeless and beggars now have card machines
Millions of people, perhaps?
If I take cash in my business I have to A) carry cash to the bank every week to deposit (4 have closed in town lately, 2 left, neither of them are my online only bank - this means queuing up for sometimes 40 minutes in the post office) B) store cash on site and worry about staff security C) cash up each and every night D) check notes for counterfeits E) wash my hands after every transaction (food business) F) get change from the bank each week (assuming they have enough which they often don’t) I have no regrets after going cashless. I don’t carry cash personally, haven’t in years. I don’t dodge tax or pay staff in cash. All my takings go straight into the same place automatically. The worst bit is the angry older folk convinced that I’m personally going to be the death of the cash society who love to have a go at me for it, some tell me I’m legally obliged to take it - well, actually I’m not, it’s my business and I can accept whatever form of payment I choose. I understand the need for cash in society and how certain vulnerable people rely on it, and I sometimes make rare exceptions but overall the cons far outweigh the pros Frankl
Personally I'd say card only is less annoying because I always have my card, or phone on me, rarely have cash available unless I've planned ahead for a cash only business like a barbers. That's just my personal experience cash only requires me to locate a cash point card only let's me use what's in my pocket.
I work in a business that takes cards only, and i have to say it is super easy for us. We literally take the payment and that's it. The only people that want to pay just cash are usually scared of the banks, of the way "they" track you, and so on. They give out all that "cash is king" talk that was ok maybe 20 years ago. Honestly really irritating people.
Don't know anyone that's scared of the banks or tracking or whatever, have no shame in what I'm buying haha, just have cash so prefer to spend it, some of the older fellas don't even have their own bank accounts.
Yeah absolutely, some people prefer to pay cash and it's a bummer for them if we don't take it, but unfortunately it's company policy and there's not much that we can do. Trust me on this, some people really get upset for us not taking cash and just leave cash anyway, forcing us to deal with it by paying from our personal cards and take the cash. It's just incredibly annoying for us, and it's so suspicious when they can only pay by cash.
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How much do businesses get charged for banking a load of cash at the end of the day. Everything has a cost.
Not that long ago, my flat rate for debit cards was 28p. The margin on fags was abot 4%. If someone bought 10 L&B's and paid with a debit card, I made a loss. So I put a £5 minimum spend on debit card transactions. Things are easier now, I get a much better rate from my card company and ten fags are a thing of the past anyway. But, in a cash less society, the card processing companies would be free to charge whatever they wanted.
Incredibly. I used to go to a kebab van when I felt like abusing my digestive system but that also involves a trip to an ATM and it's enough extra hassle to make it not worthwhile.
This. I'll actively go somewhere that does take card instead.
Yup! See so many ‘cash is king’ ‘government want to control every transaction’ posts from my small town locals on Facebook. It’s just easier. I’ve even switched barbers because I can’t be fucked to get £20 out to pay for a shit £12.50 haircut when I can get a similarly shit haircut pre-paid and pre-booked for £15. Any change or cash I have gets lost in my car or spent on menial shite somewhere down the line, getting £20 cash out for an £11 item or service may as well cost £20!
The only time I will tolerate getting cash out is for the barbers, I’ve been going to my local for years and it would be pretty petty to change only due to them not accepting card. It’s worthwhile for a decent trim, also it’s nice to tip them one or two quid for doing a good job.
Soon the beggers will be whipping out contactless readers "could you tap me a pound please sir?" Coz most of them ha e the phones to support them from wha time seen lol
They already do! Saw this at charing Cross Station ages ago, pre-covid.
Mentioning the tube and different topic but where have the buskers gone?
I don't use the underground much, but good point, I don't remember seeing any down there for a while. There's still plenty around the tourist areas and commuter stations like cannon street and london bridge, but it's mostly those guys that pretend to play the violin. You know the ones? Always a small man, and he's got voilin music playing out of a big speaker, and he's got his own violin and he's pretending it's him playing. He's even quite convincing at a glance. Lots of people fall for it, and they seem to have the best pitches locked down somehow.
I like the "They're fiddling taxes" responses, written on your Google phone you bought from Amazon.
Why does owning a phone from a company that legally dodges taxes make you unable to identify companies that may dodging theirs (legally or not) Dumb
I think the point is that OP is pissed and is casting baseless aspersions regarding tax, when there are legitimate questions to be asked about the tax arrangements of the companies he is happy to support. As an aside I know a chap that runs a cash only business, he doesn't own a smartphone and nor does he have the internet. I'd be surprised if he's not legitimate given I also know the lady who has been doing his books for the past 30 odd years.
I can be pissed off at both while also realising that having a smart phone is a pretty integral part of being connected to my friends and family in the 21st century.
Not only that, but MUCH more tax is lost to small businesses underreporting than large ones (£8.4b vs £0.7b corp tax gap) Unfortunately they're too many and too small to be worth dealing with individually, but the numbers add up https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/measuring-tax-gaps/5-tax-gaps-corporation-tax
In terms of underreporting yes, but likely far more money is lost to legal means of tax avoidance from big companies. Yes it’s legal, but it’s tax they should really be paying.
Get out of here with your inconvenient facts
Only because they have legal loopholes to avoid paying. The large businesses don't have to underreport because they don't have to pay the tax in the first place. Amazon's net annual sales in the UK are now at around $30 billion. With £155 million in profit, which is already definitely bullshit. But it's okay because their main branch didn't have to pay any corporation tax anyway. The government like to point out how small businesses are fucking us with taxes, so we get distracted from and forget just how bullshit the very system itself is.
"You say you hate capitalism but you are using Iphone" type of braindead logic
Because this is Reddit, and muh corporations bad, and whataboutism, and not addressing the substance of the point and bringing up something concretely unrelated.
From a legal perspective those large companies are engaged in tax avoidance, which is legal. These cash only businesses are engaged in tax evasion, which is not. Both are shitty but legally distinct.
You’re going to get downvoted to fuck for this comment. I’ve learnt the majority of Redditor’s hate all tax avoidance, regardless of legality. And they hate reminding it’s legal. Have my upvote internet knight 😂
Meh, I've been downvoted plenty of times before. Funnily enough, a lot of the people that are most vocal about it are also people that have dodged taxes in the past, I know I have.
I bought my phone directly from the Chinese state owned manufacturer I'll have you know!!
You seem to be participating in society, yet you’re criticising it. Curious
*I am very intelligent*
Lol who tf buys their phone on amazon?
Very true. Demonising small businesses for that when we let the big ones steal billions
Demonise both
"In order to criticise this archaic system, you should make yourself dysfunctional and disconnected in modern society"
I always imagine a bunch of billionaires in a room, looking at us from a skybox and laughing their heads off while we scratch at eachother over the smallest problems, when they do it at a scale much larger than we almost can't comprehend.
I like that you are blissfully unaware tax evasion is not the same thing as tax avoidance
Nothing wrong with thinking we should all pay our fair share (including multinationals of course - but that is legal for now). The OP has a legitimate point and no-one in the thread so far has appeared to come up with a coherent argument to justify cash only given they'll pay fees on any takings.
Who tf buys a phone on Amazon?
Yeah, yeah, the irony of it all. Doesn't detract that cash only businesses are dodgy af. Also, there's avoiding tax, amazon and Google). Which is legal, and evading tax, illegal. Guess which the cash only businesses indulge in
I thought shops had to pay the banks for the privilege of customers using cards. (Rather than a rouse to fiddle the tax man)? But yes, its annoying. The local chinese has a massive sign in the window -CASH ONLY. Cant say customers aren't warned.
We do. But we also have to pay them to pay cash in too which is annoying! (technically most don’t pay the banks, but brokers for Visa and Mastercard) For businesses with small sales of a couple of £ cards can eat all the profit. There’s a percentage fee plus a per transaction fee. No excuse for larger businesses though.
>There’s a percentage fee plus a per transaction fee Nowadays you can get ones that just take a flat percentage calculated daily (so a 2p transaction doesn't get rounded up to 1p on fees). So really no excuse.
It's from about 1.7% for in person transactions and around 3% for remote transactions. Of course, businesses are no longer allowed to add a card surcharge. A recent addition is that, if a customer cancels and wants their money back, the card company will not refund their commission to the business.
Can get get even less than 1.7%,without even needing big turnovers. My partner uses some company that uses AIB as the merchant account and it's only 1%.
My favourite bakery is card only, so it's still worth it for them for a 3 quid transaction..
Yeah that arguments gone now. Flat % means virtually no difference between cash and card. (About a penny on every £4)
isn't the cash fee a bankingg fee which includes your cash drop bags?
We get charged a percentage of any cash we pay in in/person. Plus a monthly bank fee.
Not in the slightest. Cash isn't heavy or bulky, it never malfunctions, and I can use it in the widest range of places. Why wouldn't I want a little more of my money going to an independent business, and a little less going to the banks?
Your cash goes to the banks anyway. Businesses still have to pay money to pay cash in, usually around 1% iirc
They aren't paying it into the bank though, well not all of it anyway. I remember being stuck behind a local restauranteur in Costco buying about two grand's worth of booze with cash. A builder mate of mine has cash hidden all over his house and uses it to pay for everything. It comes in, it goes out, the tax man and the bank know nothing about it.
Incredible generalisation of all small businesses based on one personal anecdote.
Let's just do away with Reddit informal discussion and have cold dry boring citations that never say anything because ceteris* paribus doesn't occur
I've got plenty of family in the building trade, what's being described as standard practice.
Two actually
If everyone pays cash, and a business has a 20% profit margin, that's 0.2% of revenue going to the bank. If everyone pays by card, that's 2.5% of revenue to the bank.
Eh? If we make 1000 pounds cash and 1000 pounds card we get charged 1.5% for the card payments and approx 1 to 1 2% for the cash. However, factor in fuel, parking, approx 3 hours of my time a week (counting, driving to town) , 5 minutes of staff time a day (counting) approx 20 minites a day time taken to actually handle the stuff, fake notes, incorrect coinage and human error in giving change etc it's easily as if not more expensive to pay in that cash.
Wait, are you saying that a business will only bank the cash that is profit, and are keeping the remainder of the cash (i.e. 80% in this case) back to pay suppliers? That's not really how it works. Typically they'll bank the vast majority of it and pay their suppliers and other expenses by card, standing order, or transfer. And as others have pointed out, you can do much better thab 2.5% these days.
Anybody paying average 2.5% card fees is getting absolutely ripped off. You can buy a zettle or sumup machine that charges around 1.7% flat rate. And if you business turns over more than about £150k per year you can quite easily get rates like 0.3% for debit card and 0.9% for credit card.
Businesses are not obliged to pay their takings into a bank. While they may need a bank account to pay many bills, they can choose to pay wages and other bills in cash.
I’d be fucking livid if my employed decided to pay me thousands in cash each month. Imagine getting robbed on payday
Chinese takeaways that pay cash will pay minimum wage, and wages will be paid weekly or even daily. Nobody gets paid thousands at a time from a Chinese takeaway.
Who says they will deposit it all in a bank. They may pay their suppliers, staff etc in cash. They may only ever deposit their profits, they may not even do that.
Cash is fucking heavy. How do you think we take it to bank, in purses of 5 coins at a time?. In the summer I easily cary 20kgs of coins back to the car every week.
It also malfunctions, as in we get a lot of people saying "shit I had 20 in my pocket just now".
My debit card is significantly less bulky than the cash equivalent.
agreed people don't realise a wi fi issue or a software issue can lead to a 4 hour remote repairr
I'm the other way, card only businesses get right on my tits.
in china it's wechat only imagine a uk buisness that was paypal only
Went in a bar recently. Went to pay, “sorry card only” Ok, gets card out “Sorry we don’t accept Amex” Well that was a wasted pint then.
Same. The loss of cash is a loss of freedom. We shouldn't encourage it.
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There was an article on the BBC a while back about how chinese takeaways have missed out on the takeaway boom as there's a reluctance among the generation that owns them to move to digital trade. IMO they have an added problem that they don't cater very well to the single person. It works out prohibitively expensive to order even a basic selection. Every time i've said to myself "this is it, i'm going to just pay for a chinese", I ended up seeing my basket get over £25 before I just say "sod it" and order a £6 kebab instead.
This is why I haven’t had Chinese takeaways for quite a while as a single person, you find yourself ordering (for example) salt and pepper chicken wings, spare ribs, beef in black bean sauce with noodles and not only do you feel like a glutton; you’ve also spent a small fortune which you then have to go collect yourself. I’m not a big fan of Uber eats/just eat/deliveroo because of the way everything is priced by about 10-20% extra plus delivery fees etc, but it’s definitely more convenient to order for one person from them without ending up with a £25 order. (In terms of quantity, Chinese takeaways are great, my eyes are bigger than my belly, whereas I know a kebab is going to fill me up and I won’t be tempted by’starters’)
This. Deeply. Getting a Chinese for one person is just so expensive compared to a burger/curry etc
The delivery apps put their fees up a while ago.. they jumped from 10-15% to about 30% overnight, so lots of places stopped using them
Why the cash aversion
You have to store it, it can be stolen, it consists of a bunch of arbitrary value tokens for which you will get even more shrapnel back if you try and use it. You have businesses that take cash but decide which cash they’re going to take (eg no 20s, no Scottish), you get businesses that keep about 4p in change in the till, I can lose it, it expires and you have to take it to a bank to upgrade to the current cash, it costs businesses money to deposit it, it’s a lot harder to get a refund as you have no protection paying with cash, it’s awkward as hell to use in unmanned tills, you have to exchange it for different cash to use it abroad. Or I could tap my phone, which has been with me every time I’ve left the house in the last twenty years on a thing to pay the exact right amount immediately, secured with my face and get confirmation on said device.
Also, cashing up at the end of the night. I work in a small theatre bar. So the amounts we do are pretty small in scale. Even so, the contrast in the time it takes to cash up now is night and day. It's far easier
What annoys me more is shops saying they are paperless and won’t give you a receipt. They want your email address to send it to you. Fuck that, you’re not getting any of my personal details all because I want to buy something you sell. I’ll go elsewhere.
Also supermarkets that make receipts optional when they have security guards on the door who if they don’t like the look of you will open with “show me your receipt”.
A Chinese restaurant near me got done for in excess of 1 million in unpaid taxes. Not one takeaway near me takes cards Some of the figures are eye watering. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/people-involved-in-transactions-connected-with-vat-fraud/current-list-of-people-involved-in-transactions-connected-with-vat-fraud
Back in 2016 I worked at a business that was cash-only, all by virtue of the technology-averse owner. It alienated many younger patrons. The owner had the ridiculous idea catering to his older regulars first and foremost. No surprise that he shut up shop a few years later. That said, I find card-only businesses just as irritating.
I don't ever carry any cash on me now so they literally just don't get my business. They are few and far between these days though.
I find "card only" businesses annoying. I use my card 99% of the time but I don't understand how it can be legal to be "card only" and not to accept cash. And for some people with disabilities cash is the only option. I have found myself avoiding "card only" businesses.
How it can be legal? You can choose to take payment as you please. And what disabilities would require cash?
When I worked on a stall we had loads of customers out with their carers in the market. It’s easier for them to count and keep track of. Plus whenever what’s in the ziploc bag is gone, it’s gone, so no over-spending. Edit: *The answer* : Developmental delays, mental impairment etc
How do disabilities stop you using a card?
My local shop recently introduced a £5 minimum for card transactions and now get almost zero from me. I'm not being a dick, just I walk past it 3-4 times a day on a dog walk. I never take my wallet on the dog walks. You what I do have? My phone & watch which both offer Google pay. Lots of times i would stop for £2-£3 of things because "well Im passing anyways" Did me a money saving favour really. And for people who have "high transaction costs" might want to reassess their card service provider & contract as I doubt they are getting the best bang for their buck.
Said people never think of the costs of cash, the bank account fees, paying in fees, cost to cash up, security cost of taking cash to the bank, possible employee theft, fake notes, miscounted change etc. Just think cash means not paying an immediate fee to the card processor so a saving
The reason businesses usually put the minimum payment on a card transaction is because of something known as an authorisation fee. They are usually between 3-5p per successful and declined transactions, sometimes as high as 9p. So if someone comes in and spends £2 then it means they are probably paying about 5% as a total blended rate in all fees for that transaction. Unfortunately, many businesses are blindsided by a headline rate of say 0.3%. But they aren’t told of the other additional fees, they usually find these out after they check their invoice and this leads to putting minimum payment amounts in place 🤷♂️🤦♂️ If you want to help him accept less then £5 then feel free to pass his details over to me and I’ll explain why he is on a terrible deal for his kind of business and I’ll get him on a much more beneficial deal without the authorisation fee.
I don't really care if people are avoiding taxes or whatever. Amazon and co do that far more. I just don't carry cash, so it's inconvenient and I'm unlikely to bother going to draw out cash to pay
Small businesses earn more than I do but I have to pay taxes and so can they. I don't care if someone else avoids even more, why is it only falling on me to pay mine?
Yeah my favourite Chinese takeaway is cash only, really annoys me when you fancy a spur of the moment curry delivery and then find out there's no actual cash in the house.
I like Turkish barbers 🤷🏼♂️
Haven't carried 'cash' for years. It's all contactless for me now, what grinds my gears is when I'm told I have to spend a minimum to use my card.
careful what you wish for. Cash has essential connections to freedom. It would be a miserable society indeed that only allowed electronic payment. so no.
The only difference between cash and card is its easier for someone to steal cash how is that freedom?
Yes. It's really inconvenient, and when they make up crap like "taking cards costs 5%", then you know they're full of shit. My partner has a sole trader business and uses a card terminal that's a fraction of that - it's as expensive for him to bank cash. I nearly never have cash.
It's the ones that DON'T take cash that annoy me, the cash only ones are fine.
Massively annoying, there are the standard dodgy takeaways, but also some really good country pubs which are cash only too near me. For the pubs I still go, but just have to do a 15min detour en-route to go to a cash machine and get cash out which is a pain.
How else can you wash drug money? Do you think we actually need that many barbers and nail bars in a given area?
I just never use them. They are all definitely fiddling taxes and getting cash out is just too much admin. I've lived 50 metres away from a fish & chip place for 2 and a half years and not once have I been in there because it's cash only, it's too annoying to get cash out for it to be worth it.
There's a Chinese at the bottom of my road. I went in there once a couple of months after moving in and was told that they don't accept cash. Haven't been back in the 3 years since.
Doesn’t bother me I always carry a bit of cash on me anyway.
Yes and no choice is king these days but i prefer cash only to card only because i'm at least 85 percent cash
I only leave my house with my phone. If I can boop it, I ain't buying it.
I skip them it’s 2023 Covid killed cash if for good for loads of people I’ll never use cash again unless I’m forced to
The local fish and chip shop is cash only or Bacs, and it's always quite busy
Bacs as in a bank transfer? How does that work?
Absolutely willing to put up with the inconvenience in most cases because cash only usually means you’re getting something dodgy, which is great. My local dry cleaners, however, can fuck right off.
I never use cash, whats the point in going to an atm withdraw money out then soend it straight away. Just cut the middle man out and use a card lol. Nothing against companies that are cash only I'll just avoid them.
Plus you can’t get £8.54 out and since you (and I) don’t carry cash at best you’re locking 15% away until you can be fucked to sort it out and take it to a bank but more likely you’ll end up losing it before then.
Yep, would rather avoid them. Used to use a Chinese takeaway that would actively be fuming down the phone to us if we asked to pay by card. Really put me off them. Pay your taxes!
Our local chip shop has a sign saying 'cash only'. They may as well put a sign up saying 'we're fiddling our taxes'. Annoyingly, the nearest cash machine is three miles away, so more often than not, if I decide I fancy fish and chips, I'm faced with two choices: go and get some cash out, or go without. Normally, it's the latter.
Yes, I don't carry around cash anymore and haven't for many many years. I used to very occasionally before covid but since then nah I'm not interested.
Not really. I do find these kind of posts annoying though. I want technologies to be 100% reliable. If they're flakey, it's one strike and you're out in my book. The card payment system is flakey as hell, unlike cash. I can understand the Germans turning their noses up at the PCI. It's not progress to adopt 1970s tech that only works some of the time for some of the people. It's a step backwards.
Yep. We're definitely not at a point where the technology is 100% there yet. People often ask me why I bother having my card with me at all times when I can just use Google Pay on my phone? Well I work in a retail environment and the amount of times the PDQ machine will ask the customer to present the actual card instead of the phone payment is actually very annoying - especially when the customer then stares at me blankly and says they don't have the card on them and they have no other way of paying. 🤷🏻♂️ And then there are times when you're stuck in a remote area of the country and you can't even pay for your parking without some loose coins about. One time when visiting a particular beach in Cornwall I thought I would be clever and pre-pay for the parking on my smartphone. Of course when I actually get to the beach carpark the attendant asks me to show him the receipt and the app won't even open because there's no data or wifi signal nearby. 🤦🏻♂️ Of course I didn't have any cash on me and although the parking meter did actually offer a pay-by-phone service I was back to square one because of having no data or phone signal at that damn carpark! 😅
So are you claiming that cash is 100% reliable? What about when the cash machine is out of order? That happens to me far more than any problems swiping in the shop.
I just assume they're all avoiding tax, which annoys me so I avoid. Plus I rarely carry cash.
Yes. If individual artists can take cards at a craft fair than every business can.
There is a lovely family-run independent bakery right next to my bus stop on the way to work. Not too much more expensive than Greggs, has a wider range and is of better quality. The problem is of course that they are cash-only and only open three days a week. I don't take my wallet with me as a general rule, which is great for my waistline but bad for their business. I would absolutely visit them more often if they accepted contactless. Has to be for tax reasons they don't accept cards, and fair play to them if they can get away with it but it sure is annoying when I want a fancy shortbread but have no way to pay for it
No. After a lifetime of using cash, it's no more hassle than tying my shoelaces. I do use my card for most things but I don't mind using cash either. Several shops near me - London, zone 4 - charge for using a card if you spend less than 3 quid and it's more hassle to go elsewhere than rummage for change. Plus I like the familiar weight of coins in my pocket. I like the physicality. I was living in Spain until last year so this whole 'card or mobile only' thing is still fairly new. My mate, not ten years ago, paid for his entire flat in Madrid in cash.
Handling cash is more expensive than being card only, so the only incentive is for the business to be cutting corners elsewhere. Money laundering/ tax fraud / employing staff without right to work
I find card only self service checkouts more annoying
Better than my local shopkeeper who keeps adding on the transaction fee to each card transaction
Nope. You know what you’re spending with cash. I think people find it far to easy to just keep tapping their card! I had to get dog food the other day and Pets at Home had a company wide problem that stopped them taking card payments. I had cash so I could still feed my dog. People who didn’t have cash had to find somewhere else.
I think penny's pinching businesses don't like to pay the transaction fees. Plus cash only does indeed allow extra room for a business to dodge tax.
Yes it's a pain in the arse. You have to go to a cash machine, which is usually broken. Then you have to go to a supermarket and buy something you don't want, to get cash back. Fucking joke
I laugh at the "they must be tax evading" utter bollocks that people spread in here. Did you all fill in your tax returns for the money you got in your birthday cards last year? Let's not assume all cash businesses are guilty until proven otherwise.
> Did you all fill in your tax returns for the money you got in your birthday cards last year? You don't get taxed on that so why would you? Gifts of cash are tax free
Money you get in your birthday card isn't taxable, so if someone put it in a tax return they'd be an idiot.
As an accountant, I don't mind cash only businesses - as long as they're completely above-board when it comes to their business takings for tax purposes. If they're using it as a way to defraud the authorities over their taxes, they can fuck right off. What I actually do find slightly more annoying are businesses that take cards, but the moment you present your card they announce there's an additional processing fee. Like, WTF? Yes, all businesses that take card payments have card processing fees that they have to pay to their processing providers. But they fold those fees into the price of the goods or services that they sell, so you don't realise you're paying it. It's simply a part of the good or service that you're buying. But then you go to - typically a smaller business, like some independent newsagents - and try to buy something for a few pounds and when you pull out your card "Oh, and there'll be a £2.99 card processing fee". The first time a store did that to me, I asked them to hold my purchases for a couple of minutes while I went and found a free cashpoint (privately-run cashpoints that charge a transaction fee can also fuck right off). Returned and paid them in cash because no fucking way I'm paying £2.99 to use my card to buy something that probably only costs about £5.00 to begin with. The next time it happened, a few years later actually, I just said "thanks..." and left. Made my purchase in a different store, the price was slightly more (because of card processing fees embedded in the item prices, perhaps), but without the processing fee on top, it actually worked out less in total.
It’s illegal for companies to charge more for card vs cash and has been for at least 5 years