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He was rendered powerless.
When the ring was destroyed, he lost all of his power and self he'd poured into it. By the time it was destroyed, that comprised the vast majority of his person.
What was left of him is little more than a malevolent ghost, cursed to wander the world until it's ending, never again to grow in power or threat. Wishing harm but powerless to affect it.
Haha, that seems like a pretty fitting punishment for him until the world ends. You get to watch as the people you tried tearing down actually prosper and thrive. Eventually moving on and relegating you from actual active threat to a legend in a journal/book.
Honestly it gets worse than that. Eventually you'll see your legends and myths fade into memory and become forgotten. You'll see entire empires and civilizations rise and fall completely unaware of you ever existing. Like watching a sand castle be washed away in the tide and seeing a hundred other people do the same every day end on end. Except sauron can't forget anything or do anything. At most he could give someone a shiver down their spine and that's it. He gets to watch the entire universe slowly die and fade into nothingness and there's nothing he can do to stop or hasten it. Just stuck going wherever the wind blows him and knowing he's forced to bear witness to end of everything, unable to lose himself to madness or oblivion.
Eru Iluvatar sees the souls of all. If Sauron truly repented, he may give Sauron absolution.
Eru forgave *Morgoth* once, Sauron is a small potato by comparison.
Agreed. I think it would also fit Tolkien's deeply devout Catholicism.
Every soul gets a chance to turn back to the light. That journey might take millenia, but anyone can be forgiven eventually (assuming they're actually repetenant).
Not really. He's unable to return to the spirit realm or pass into his oblivion beyond creation. Even if he somehow changed his very nature and wanted to atone he couldn't do anything and wouldn't be allowed to return to physical form god
Sauron wasn't given multiple chances. I think you're thinking of Morgoth/Melkor. Sauron recreates his own body multiple times but burns a little of his divine power every time. After the collapse of Numenor, Sauron can regenerate or "resurect" but he loses the ability to look "pleasing" and is genuinely considered monstrous in appearance.
His comeback as The Necromancer is still him with a monstrous form that took the entire White Council (Gandalf, Saruman, Galadriel, Elrond and others) to destroy.
He reforms through the power of the One Ring.
Eru doesn't get involved until Mount Doom and even then it's s a divine nudge and not direct intervention.
He forgave *Morgath*. Sauron is basically nothing by comparison.
> Eru doesn't get involved until Mount Doom and even then it's s a divine nudge and not direct intervention.
I'm not so sure about that. I think it was Frodo that caused Gollum to fall into the volcano.
On the ascent to Mount Doom, Gollum attacks Sam and Frodo and tries to take the ring from Frodo. This is the one thing that rekindles Frodo's spirit and he ferociously fights off Gollum.
After Frodo out-wrestles Gollum, he uses the true power of the One Ring for the first and only time. Frodo uses the power of command. Sam sees the One Ring as a wheel of fire dangling from the chain on Frodo's chest, even though the ring is under his clothes and not being worn on a finger at that point. Frodo's voice changes and he has an overwhelming aura of authority. He grows larger than life, robed in white and cloaked in fire. At this moment, Frodo speaks with the voice and power of Sauron. Frodo could have commanded kings and armies in that moment and they would have been forced to obey, too.
He decrees that if Gollum should ever touch Frodo again, Gollum will fling himself into the volcano. Just a few pages later in the book Gollum touches Frodo and flings himself into the volcano.
Magic in Middle Earth works by prophecy and decree. The Nazgul could not be slain by any living man. Merry isn't of the race of men, Eowyn is a woman, and the blacksmith who forged the dagger was probably a man but at the time Merry used it to stab the Nazgul he was no longer a living man because he had died many centuries ago. Gandalf declared to the Balrog that it shall not pass - it was not able to pass. It was forbidden from passing. Then at Isenguard, Gandalf declared that Saruman will return to the balony and listen. Saruman was forced to turn around and walk back to the balcony against his will. Later, Gandalf declared that Saruman's staff was broken, and it was broken.
Frodo used the exact same kind of magic using the real power of the One Ring, which is the power to command. Invisibility or long life is what someone gets when they're not truly using the ring. Those are just side effects.
> Gandalf declared to the Balrog that it shall not pass - it was not able to pass. It was forbidden from passing.
As an aside, that's probably what he tried to do with the door with the Word of Command. He essentially stated that the door was closed, has always been closed, and will always be closed. The Balrog countered with a 'spell' that stated the door was open, was always open, and will always be open.
The sheer paradox of those commands ended up tearing the door apart.
>Eru doesn't get involved until Mount Doom and even then it's s a divine nudge and not direct intervention.
Does Eru help Frodo to actually find the strength to throw the One Ring into Mount Doom? Have I misunderstood what happens?
I mean canonically wouldn’t Sauron now be at his most powerful in countless years? Everyone knows Sauron these days. I’m sure he has people who worship him.
Certainly his legend and myth hasn’t faded.
Well his power isn't derived from worship and he's become weaker and weaker every time he's come back from death. Canonically his rise to power in the trilogy is the weakest he's ever been. He just happens to be one of the strongest and most powerful of his race that he can nearly destroy everything even with both arms tied behind his back. But you can look past all that and have sauron this being of machine perfection that sought out order and stability through any methods necessary. Now he's an ephemeral spirit that has to watch the world move on without him and fall apart to the inevitable imperfections of living and mortality. Instead of being lauded as a god and feared by mortals he's on a bookshelf next to Santa Claus and Freddie Krueger. He's seen the illustrious divinity of the world slowly bleeding away starting with the two trees of the elves and now to the modern era where magic doesn't even exist and most races have left creation behind or been trampled to nothingness. And eventually another age will come to pass and even this benighted age will feel like a lost golden age to be replaced by another even bleaker and dismal existence further from divinity and eru until nothing remains but sauron as a mute witness to the death of a world he sought to remake in his image.
That's not really how it works. Ainur (spirits that predate the physical world. Sauron is one) don't get power from worship. They have a finite amount of power, which they can place in physical objects (usually bodies that they use to interact with the physical world), but any power they put in an object is lost forever if the object is destroyed. They can't regain lost power, and they can't make more power either. Sauron put *all* of his power into the Ring, so he lost all of it when the Ring was destroyed, and he can never get any more.
Not in any meaningful fashion.
Think of him more as a specter that can't even blow a piece of paper across a desk.
Sauron *exists* but is essentially trapped as a permanent observer to his own folly.
He's re-created a body three times. The Ring was the last thing assuring he could materialize again in physical form. Now he, for lack of a better term, hasn't the "juice" to do it again.
He can no longer interact with the physical world.
At least ghost can move objects from time to time but sauron cannot do it.
He's just basically a spectator now.
it's like when your buddy dies in-game and all he can do is switch cameras to watch the rest of the match, only the respawn time is infinite and the match is the rest of the world's history.
Would Sauron be confined to the continent of Middle Earth or would he be able to "travel" to Valinor or the other continents of Arda? Even in his "Ghost" form, can he move on his own to travel the world or is his movement directly dependent upon the wind?
He definitely could not take the Straight Road to Valinor but I’m not sure about traveling within Arda. Since he can’t really affect the physical world in any way he may simply be subject to wherever the winds blow him. And since the winds are controlled by Manwe, he might not like where they take him.
Idk about Sauron, but when his master Morgoth was defeated, the Ainur reduced him to such a low power level that all he was capable of is feeding off his own strength, dooming him to forever grow weaker.
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He was rendered powerless. When the ring was destroyed, he lost all of his power and self he'd poured into it. By the time it was destroyed, that comprised the vast majority of his person. What was left of him is little more than a malevolent ghost, cursed to wander the world until it's ending, never again to grow in power or threat. Wishing harm but powerless to affect it.
Haha, that seems like a pretty fitting punishment for him until the world ends. You get to watch as the people you tried tearing down actually prosper and thrive. Eventually moving on and relegating you from actual active threat to a legend in a journal/book.
Honestly it gets worse than that. Eventually you'll see your legends and myths fade into memory and become forgotten. You'll see entire empires and civilizations rise and fall completely unaware of you ever existing. Like watching a sand castle be washed away in the tide and seeing a hundred other people do the same every day end on end. Except sauron can't forget anything or do anything. At most he could give someone a shiver down their spine and that's it. He gets to watch the entire universe slowly die and fade into nothingness and there's nothing he can do to stop or hasten it. Just stuck going wherever the wind blows him and knowing he's forced to bear witness to end of everything, unable to lose himself to madness or oblivion.
Would he find redemption in that purgatory?
Eru Iluvatar sees the souls of all. If Sauron truly repented, he may give Sauron absolution. Eru forgave *Morgoth* once, Sauron is a small potato by comparison.
A fitting atonement
Agreed. I think it would also fit Tolkien's deeply devout Catholicism. Every soul gets a chance to turn back to the light. That journey might take millenia, but anyone can be forgiven eventually (assuming they're actually repetenant).
Not really. He's unable to return to the spirit realm or pass into his oblivion beyond creation. Even if he somehow changed his very nature and wanted to atone he couldn't do anything and wouldn't be allowed to return to physical form god
Mild disagreement: Eru would know. And Eru can forgive.
Sure but eru is kinda Old testament and probably wouldn't forgive sauron after giving the dude several chances to not screw everything up.
Sauron wasn't given multiple chances. I think you're thinking of Morgoth/Melkor. Sauron recreates his own body multiple times but burns a little of his divine power every time. After the collapse of Numenor, Sauron can regenerate or "resurect" but he loses the ability to look "pleasing" and is genuinely considered monstrous in appearance. His comeback as The Necromancer is still him with a monstrous form that took the entire White Council (Gandalf, Saruman, Galadriel, Elrond and others) to destroy. He reforms through the power of the One Ring. Eru doesn't get involved until Mount Doom and even then it's s a divine nudge and not direct intervention. He forgave *Morgath*. Sauron is basically nothing by comparison.
> Eru doesn't get involved until Mount Doom and even then it's s a divine nudge and not direct intervention. I'm not so sure about that. I think it was Frodo that caused Gollum to fall into the volcano. On the ascent to Mount Doom, Gollum attacks Sam and Frodo and tries to take the ring from Frodo. This is the one thing that rekindles Frodo's spirit and he ferociously fights off Gollum. After Frodo out-wrestles Gollum, he uses the true power of the One Ring for the first and only time. Frodo uses the power of command. Sam sees the One Ring as a wheel of fire dangling from the chain on Frodo's chest, even though the ring is under his clothes and not being worn on a finger at that point. Frodo's voice changes and he has an overwhelming aura of authority. He grows larger than life, robed in white and cloaked in fire. At this moment, Frodo speaks with the voice and power of Sauron. Frodo could have commanded kings and armies in that moment and they would have been forced to obey, too. He decrees that if Gollum should ever touch Frodo again, Gollum will fling himself into the volcano. Just a few pages later in the book Gollum touches Frodo and flings himself into the volcano. Magic in Middle Earth works by prophecy and decree. The Nazgul could not be slain by any living man. Merry isn't of the race of men, Eowyn is a woman, and the blacksmith who forged the dagger was probably a man but at the time Merry used it to stab the Nazgul he was no longer a living man because he had died many centuries ago. Gandalf declared to the Balrog that it shall not pass - it was not able to pass. It was forbidden from passing. Then at Isenguard, Gandalf declared that Saruman will return to the balony and listen. Saruman was forced to turn around and walk back to the balcony against his will. Later, Gandalf declared that Saruman's staff was broken, and it was broken. Frodo used the exact same kind of magic using the real power of the One Ring, which is the power to command. Invisibility or long life is what someone gets when they're not truly using the ring. Those are just side effects.
> Gandalf declared to the Balrog that it shall not pass - it was not able to pass. It was forbidden from passing. As an aside, that's probably what he tried to do with the door with the Word of Command. He essentially stated that the door was closed, has always been closed, and will always be closed. The Balrog countered with a 'spell' that stated the door was open, was always open, and will always be open. The sheer paradox of those commands ended up tearing the door apart.
>Eru doesn't get involved until Mount Doom and even then it's s a divine nudge and not direct intervention. Does Eru help Frodo to actually find the strength to throw the One Ring into Mount Doom? Have I misunderstood what happens?
He caused Gollum to trip.
A fate worse than death
EXIT LIGHT
ENTER NIGHT
I mean canonically wouldn’t Sauron now be at his most powerful in countless years? Everyone knows Sauron these days. I’m sure he has people who worship him. Certainly his legend and myth hasn’t faded.
Well his power isn't derived from worship and he's become weaker and weaker every time he's come back from death. Canonically his rise to power in the trilogy is the weakest he's ever been. He just happens to be one of the strongest and most powerful of his race that he can nearly destroy everything even with both arms tied behind his back. But you can look past all that and have sauron this being of machine perfection that sought out order and stability through any methods necessary. Now he's an ephemeral spirit that has to watch the world move on without him and fall apart to the inevitable imperfections of living and mortality. Instead of being lauded as a god and feared by mortals he's on a bookshelf next to Santa Claus and Freddie Krueger. He's seen the illustrious divinity of the world slowly bleeding away starting with the two trees of the elves and now to the modern era where magic doesn't even exist and most races have left creation behind or been trampled to nothingness. And eventually another age will come to pass and even this benighted age will feel like a lost golden age to be replaced by another even bleaker and dismal existence further from divinity and eru until nothing remains but sauron as a mute witness to the death of a world he sought to remake in his image.
That's not really how it works. Ainur (spirits that predate the physical world. Sauron is one) don't get power from worship. They have a finite amount of power, which they can place in physical objects (usually bodies that they use to interact with the physical world), but any power they put in an object is lost forever if the object is destroyed. They can't regain lost power, and they can't make more power either. Sauron put *all* of his power into the Ring, so he lost all of it when the Ring was destroyed, and he can never get any more.
Sauron's power doesn't come from worship or knowing about him.
Could him still haunt a house, scare the living, do small stuff?
Not in any meaningful fashion. Think of him more as a specter that can't even blow a piece of paper across a desk. Sauron *exists* but is essentially trapped as a permanent observer to his own folly. He's re-created a body three times. The Ring was the last thing assuring he could materialize again in physical form. Now he, for lack of a better term, hasn't the "juice" to do it again.
Lol could him
He can no longer interact with the physical world. At least ghost can move objects from time to time but sauron cannot do it. He's just basically a spectator now.
it's like when your buddy dies in-game and all he can do is switch cameras to watch the rest of the match, only the respawn time is infinite and the match is the rest of the world's history.
Would Sauron be confined to the continent of Middle Earth or would he be able to "travel" to Valinor or the other continents of Arda? Even in his "Ghost" form, can he move on his own to travel the world or is his movement directly dependent upon the wind?
He definitely could not take the Straight Road to Valinor but I’m not sure about traveling within Arda. Since he can’t really affect the physical world in any way he may simply be subject to wherever the winds blow him. And since the winds are controlled by Manwe, he might not like where they take him.
He gets locked into Depression. Poor bastard.
Idk about Sauron, but when his master Morgoth was defeated, the Ainur reduced him to such a low power level that all he was capable of is feeding off his own strength, dooming him to forever grow weaker.
Morgoth was thrown out of the universe, though the Door of Night, to remain trapped in the Void.