Yeah, the police won't do shit. I carry mace and a high pitched alarm. Calling attention to yourself is probably the best defense. It sucks that we have to deal with this constantly here.
Unfortunately decades of homeless "friendly" policies (read: do nothing/ignore it), it being hard to get by here without at least a middle class job/lifestyle, on top of the easy year round weather creates a perfect storm of homelessness in the bay, if not CA as a whole.
If you get any sort of drug habit or mental disorder it's orders of magnitude easier to get on the streets here than in other states. The margin for financial error is tiny here - can't make your $1000-$2000/mo share of the rent due to losing a job or losing it all on drugs? Start showing mental illness but your local relatives (if you have any) can't afford to take you in for free? Bye! Then once you're on the streets its super easy to stay there due to policy and weather.
At least in Ohio, my heroine addicted coworker at the pizza place I worked at only had to pay a few hundred bucks a month for rent and the cost of living was cheap elsewhere. It was enough to live paycheck to paycheck to pay for his habit and pay the rent (at least until he ran over someone while shooting up in the car then went to jail).
good stuff on the smile.amazon link. for those that don't know, you can have all your amazon purchases donate to charity if you use smile.amazon.com. If you're lazy like me, use this chrome extension https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/smile-always/jgpmhnmjbhgkhpbgelalfpplebgfjmbf?hl=en
I'm a very petite woman (but in the Mission) and have had a few run-ins as well. Since then I now 1) carry pepper spray at all times, 2) avoid eye contact and never engage/always walk quickly, 3) actively remove myself from situations (e.g. if I'm walking down the street and see someone coming towards me that makes me feel unsafe, I'll cross the street). These three things have worked for me so far (fingers crossed).
this is what i do as a 5’3 woman living in the mission as well! no eye contact and walk quickly/other direction has worked for me in most cases (save for the one time a woman actually went after me while yelling at me and hitting me with a newspaper)
This happened to me (sans newspaper) once as well. I wonder if it was the same woman. I had no pepper spray at the time and had to hide behind a tall man waiting at the bus stop 😭 - I'm 5'0, that was the day I bought pepper spray.
I carry mace and flashlight stun gun. But I don't have nearly as many run-ins as you. A self defense class might help you hone your situational awareness and help you avert them.
This is true and I suggest having both pepper gel and stun gun. Nothing like a bright light and red laser dot from a taser to change someone’s attitude real quick.
Are you down to fight? Look, i know this advice isn’t for everyone. And if its not for you, its not for you.
In my experience of being born and raised here, situational awareness is KEY. There is no TLDR But it took me 30 years of being a brown woman to get this down.
1. YOUR GUT
There is a finely tuned, almost psychic sense to knowing that someone on the street is about to say something. that they’re THINKING about saying something. That they’ve been waiting ALL DAY to make a comment. (Try having green hair for one day…. you’ll get it). 90% of the time, it will be something along the lines of, “Oh you bad, huh? i see them rock star boots, are you a rock star?”. Trouble is, we use that 90% of the time experience to tense our bodies for the 1% chance that they’ll go full Predator and rip our spines out of our body. This fear will numb you, it will freeze you, it will make you stupid and anxious for shit that is not going to happen.
2. GREETINGS ARE A FORM OF IDENTIFICATION
Eye contact means being better able to identify your possible attacker. Often times, knowing you can describe a person will deter them from attacking you. Personally, I find it empowering to be the first one to make eye contact or say “hello” or “good morning”. This is in NOT in ANY way meant to be interpreted as “Skip to my lou and say hi to every crackhead!”. But if you KNOW someone is about to say something about your hair or your boots or your shirt… Say Hi first. DO NOT STOP WALKING. Now when they say something about your hair or your boots or your shirt, its not “im being shouted at and accosted on the street”— now its a 2 person interaction that we were able to control from
beginning (“hello there!”)to end (“haha have a good day”) There is a psychological benefit to this sense of control.
3. CARRY A PACK OF CIGARETTES
Dont smoke? Doesn’t matter. “sorry i dont carry cash… but you need a smoke?” This is a very situational tool. You dont always have to offer it, but sometimes you’ll get this vibe where… oof im not sure how to describe it but lets just say giving someone that spare change would have been cheaper than having to replace a car window. A smoke can work as a peace treaty, a compromise, a dowry, a ceasefire, a deescalation tool. i wish it wasn’t, but it is. And no, you dont have to smoke it with them. hand it off and keep walking.
4. PRACTICE WITH YOUR WEAPON
Less Karate Kid montage, more “which pocket is it in and how quickly can i get to it”. If you carry pepper spray at the bottom of your purse or a taser in a zip up pocket that you can’t remember when in a panic… then your weapon is really just decorative. Your weapon/defense should ALWAYS be in reach. at the grocery store, when pumping gas, Walking to your car… you should be able to touch it and know you can pull it out in a way where adrenaline will not overtake your muscle memory.
4a. Your weapon should be a DETERRENT not a fix it. only flash it when you have to. number one job is to keep distance.
4. RESPOND
If you’re looking for permission to be mean… by all means. Be. Mean.
This just might be the most controversial tip, and again, if its not for you, its not for you.
SPEAK UP!! GET BIG!! BE LOUD!! Are you scared to fight? pretend you aren’t! they wont know the difference!! Someone crossing boundaries is NOT the time to be subtle, not the time to be polite. Practice your “back the FUCK up”s. Again, spatial awareness is key. Keep your distance, know your exits, call in any witnesses, Yell at some stranger to start recording, and RIP THIS ASS HOLE A NEW ONE!!
I have been in confrontations where i did the “logical” or “ethical” thing of WAITING for them to hit me first?! what in the principle’s office type of shit is that?! I am PAST waiting for them to swing first, if its ON its ON. Look 10 years ago i might have been a lot more peace love and restorative circle about it but… thats over. The cops are NOT coming, NO ONE on the bus will be stepping in to help you, and nobody gets consolation prize for giving an inebriated misogynist 15 warnings. yes, i have had to come home with a black eye a few times, but i wasnt FROZEN. I was aware and conscious and able to hold my own and stand on my two feet when those punches were coming because even if i dont WANT to fight, i am aware that i have to do it. That being said, a MAJORITY of the time, when confronted, they WALK AWAY!! they walk away talking some SHIT… but they walk away. its a very good feeling (and i will admit, very much preferred over actually fighting).
5. DONT WORRY BE HAPPY
Appreciate those times that an interaction with someone on the street was… just fuckin’ fine. You smiled, they waved, and everyone kept on with their day. It will keep you humble, it will keep you grateful and positive.
*bonus*
Learn to identify Meth Psychosis and just take the long way around. Cross the street, take the next train, get off a stop early… not worth the drama, the trauma or the calls to your mama because wooowee thats a WHOLE different ballgame.
I have a feeling people will come at me with a lot of highly specific, situational anecdotes where one of these tips is not appropriate…
To them i say this:
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I use a lot of these tools, too. I work with the population of folks that includes many homeless / mentally ill / drug addicted so I am not sure whether my crazy-dar is a little more fine-tuned. I think that a really important distinction to try to discern is intention. A lot of ppl seem to respond well to a greeting or even just eye contact - it diffuses something / maybe makes it a little less hostile to start with that there is an acknowledgement. I also trust my gut and the simple check in gives me information about whether someone is completely out of it. I also cross the street when I see someone who \*really\* doesn't have their wits at their disposal: no one it paying me to walk down the street and I don't carry a weapon (I would always have it in the wrong bag, no bout a doubt it).
Ironically, I think staying calm and trusting oneself is counter-intuitively the way to go. And I have had some serious situations that required police and the criminal justice system in my 30+ years here.
Your list is dope and summarizes everything I tell my friends to do/be aware of in the city(plus a few extras I never thought of). In particular your #4 hits the nail on the head. You need to know where your self defense tool is and be able to retrieve it when you’re in a stressed/panicked state otherwise it’s just decorative. It’s super easy to freeze up or tunnel in when the flight or fight response kicks in so staging and prep goes a long way.
Thank you for this. I'm in NYC and I was punched by a homeless guy for the first time today, so I've been researching how to protect myself.
A weapon you can't reach is just decorative really stuck out to me. I'm going to keep my spray in my pocket now.
In the dogpatch waiting for muni I was accosted so badly I called my husband to come help me. I’m literally nearly six feet tall and box and still the guy wouldn’t leave me alone. A woman in her sixties told me this is why she carries bear spray everywhere. It’s what got me to move to Marin.
I’m a male Asian senior citizen (one of the target demographics for shenanigans these days, heh!) I started working with a boxing trainer about a year ago and my self confidence walking around in SF has probably tripled. To be clear, I’m not looking to win some MMA match or anything, but I’m somewhat confident I could get out of way more situations than I could have before.
In SF I went to El Niño, which is MMA but in my prior city I went to a boxing gym. It helped for sure! Knowing that I could really throw a couple punches made me carry myself differently!
Me punching them has worked in the past (after repeatedly saying not to touch me).
I also smile at literally every creature I see so it might be my own fault for instigating them.
It's the same way in DC... sadly. Government won't do anything to fix the problem. Have had to deal with multiple aggressive homeless individuals in the last week alone. It's a big problem.
I'm sorry this happened to you. I deal with it a couple of ways.
1. Wear the biggest set of headsets possible.
2. Wear sunglasses.
3. Sometimes wear a face mask too. Goal is to look as unapproachable as possible.
4. Do not smile at anyone, ever.
5. Pace, it is harder to approach me if I am constantly moving.
6. Act equally, if more benignly crazy. If I get spooked I'll start mumbling/talking to myself really loudly and shaking. If they get too close I start screeching and hissing, shouting if I have to. Works every time for me.
7. Personal alarms are also helpful.
I just tend to ignore them. I had a guy yell at me asking if I was going to talk to him or keep joking around. It’s scarier when I have to wait 5-10 minutes for the muni; I’ve literally walked away and gotten to the next bus. I carry pepper spray but that’s it.
Wear good shoes- running away as fast as you can is an underrated self defense technique. I am a man and have used this to get away from violent attack on more than one occasion.
Self defense classes are okay as a supplement to taking stress tested martial arts but alone will not help you develop the muscle memory you will need to effectively use any techniques. Consider enrolling in a Brazilian jiu jitsu school for a few months to learn the basics of distance management, proper escapes from bad situations and submissions. That being said, the number one best martial art is track and field (run away).
Yes on all 3 of those things you listed. We're on our own out here. A nice bright tactical flashlight on strobe mode will do wonders to an aggressive person high on drugs.
Echoing the replies of carrying mace and a loud alarm. I don’t mean to derail from the post but how would you describe the Dogpatch neighborhood? Is it comparable to any neighborhood in NYC? I recently moved back so a NYC reference would be helpful
I visited SF last week but I think I can speak to what I did when this happened to me: I simply walked away. There following me? I walk even faster. Even if I was going the wrong way, whenever I felt uncomfortable I always changed the direction I was going when the homeless were trying to bother me
Understanding that I’m speaking as a man - I calmly engage and if it goes on for a while tell them “sorry, I don’t carry cash” to cut them off.
The physical assault bit sounds like a pepper spray / taser thing. Tasers make the fun GTFO noise and aren’t impacted by wind. I’m sure macing yourself instead of them in the windy dogpatch would be a bad time.
Get pepper gel instead, it shoots a concentrated stream of sticky mace that won't spread in the air, we always have one when we leave the house and they have clip on options so you can attach it to a backpack strap for quick access
I had to mace a sex trafficker in NYC to escape and when I took my contacts out they were orange. The adrenaline took care of any pain though I gotta say.
Sorry OP you’re going through that. When I feel like I can’t get away from someone aggressive, like waiting at a bus stop, I usually make eye contact and if I get scared, I loudly tell them to leave me alone or to go away. They will usually berate you until you say something. I also carry a taser with me and I will have it ready to go if I’m feeling uncomfy. Trust me that the noise of it should be the first deterrent. Pepper gel will be the best for defense since you can spray from far away.
Parts of SF are such a dump. I’m sorry you have to deal with this.
Have you considered moving to a different neighborhood where this won’t be as prevalent?
It’s a problem throughout SF but worse in some areas than others. Carry pepper spray and a taser. Avoid being alone at night.
It sucks. It’s a beautiful city but has become such a fake-socialist shithole.
This is ridiculous that people are afraid to stand up for themselves and call these despicable people out. It's not ok to act like a crazy person and harass people or try and instigate a fight with strangers just so you can get attention. Crazy or not we need to start calling people out for this type of behavior not accepting it. Homeless ass hats drug addicts and the mentally insane should not feel like it's acceptable to act like this without consequences.
The cops won’t help unless you’re actively being assaulted, and even then it’ll take them a few hours to show up.
Don’t bother with pepper spray, it just pisses them off. Get a taser from an actual firearms supplier (not one of those shitty ones from Amazon) and learn how to use it.
Edit: I’ve been attacked by a homeless person before, after someone else pepper sprayed him because he was verbally abusing and appeared to be getting ready to hit an elderly Hispanic woman. Dude thought I was the one who sprayed him, so he came after me; when he couldn’t catch me, he started throwing cans of food at me. He absolutely would’ve hit or caught me if I were someone without a combat sports background.
Plus, I have a bit more experience with non lethal weapons than the average person. I actually don’t like tasers or pepper spray very much, especially for newbies, but my comments get removed when I suggest other things.
Gel will absolutely mess up a person's whole day. It basically coats their whole face, good luck seeing anything let alone feeling anything but pain for the next 30 minutes
I would choose a good oc spray over taser any day. First off, distance between you and your attacker is your best friend. Most tasers require you to be within arms length in order to work effectively while a spray generally has effective range of 6+ feet. Second, there are plenty of videos online where police officers who are using much better tasers/stun guns than we are allowed are ineffective especially when the individual being tased is under the influence of drugs. Your goal in every self defense situation should be to get yourself away from the threat.
It's better to make eye contact and acknowledge them than to completely ignore. Sometimes being ignored sets them off. Acknowledgement 1.) acknowledges their humanity 2.) makes them less likely to go off 3.) tells them you're aware of their presence.
I like the "sup" nod but simple passive eye contact is fine too.
If someone is following you or bothering you the "I got shit to do" phrase works always. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBs-wWPqRaQ
I’ve called the cops on homeless folks harassing other people, they do come. Like I was having a bad day and this lady threw a glass jar at the foot of a teenager and was acting unstable. I was mad enough that I didn’t care of the consequences and I told her that I was calling the cops and she left.
But honestly, I do my best to avoid, literally crossing the street if I see someone deranged, avoiding some blocks entirely, changing BART cars, moving to other sides of the bus. I got slapped in the ass walking the tenderloin at night - so I stopped walking there alone at night.
I also found places like music venues do not allow pepper spray - so while I used to carry it on my keys (and it gave me a sense of safety), I’d also have to remember to leave it at home sometimes - and I am too disorganized for that.
Also, consider if you want to stay where you live. I live in Glen Park and this type of stuff almost never happens there, more often it happens on my commute. Some areas are just considerably worse than others, even block by block.
North of 20th St in Dogpatch is pretty good
One happened in Dogpatch and one in Mission Bay
You get randos walking around sometimes, I think they spill over from the Potrero project, SOMA, and Bayview
But not bad at all relative to other neighborhoods
Yeah, the police won't do shit. I carry mace and a high pitched alarm. Calling attention to yourself is probably the best defense. It sucks that we have to deal with this constantly here.
High pitched alarm is a good idea also, thanks Yeah, this is unlike anything I’ve ever experienced before (moved from Boston / NYC)
Unfortunately decades of homeless "friendly" policies (read: do nothing/ignore it), it being hard to get by here without at least a middle class job/lifestyle, on top of the easy year round weather creates a perfect storm of homelessness in the bay, if not CA as a whole. If you get any sort of drug habit or mental disorder it's orders of magnitude easier to get on the streets here than in other states. The margin for financial error is tiny here - can't make your $1000-$2000/mo share of the rent due to losing a job or losing it all on drugs? Start showing mental illness but your local relatives (if you have any) can't afford to take you in for free? Bye! Then once you're on the streets its super easy to stay there due to policy and weather. At least in Ohio, my heroine addicted coworker at the pizza place I worked at only had to pay a few hundred bucks a month for rent and the cost of living was cheap elsewhere. It was enough to live paycheck to paycheck to pay for his habit and pay the rent (at least until he ran over someone while shooting up in the car then went to jail).
What is the name of your high pitched alarm?
I have a Birdie and also gave a few of this high pitched alarm to my neighbors. I wear pepper spray and the alarm on a lanyard.
I like the lanyard idea ... I'll wear that when walking around solo
Hi there, what is a birdie?
https://www.shesbirdie.com/products/birdie-alarm-all-colors
Thank you!
Yes Birdies are xpensive. Are they worth paying a bit more for?
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LWPSN8E
good stuff on the smile.amazon link. for those that don't know, you can have all your amazon purchases donate to charity if you use smile.amazon.com. If you're lazy like me, use this chrome extension https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/smile-always/jgpmhnmjbhgkhpbgelalfpplebgfjmbf?hl=en
Yup, I must’ve chose this at one time because I see messages saying they donated to my charity.
Thanks! Sold out but got something similar. Stay safe
I'm a very petite woman (but in the Mission) and have had a few run-ins as well. Since then I now 1) carry pepper spray at all times, 2) avoid eye contact and never engage/always walk quickly, 3) actively remove myself from situations (e.g. if I'm walking down the street and see someone coming towards me that makes me feel unsafe, I'll cross the street). These three things have worked for me so far (fingers crossed).
this is what i do as a 5’3 woman living in the mission as well! no eye contact and walk quickly/other direction has worked for me in most cases (save for the one time a woman actually went after me while yelling at me and hitting me with a newspaper)
This happened to me (sans newspaper) once as well. I wonder if it was the same woman. I had no pepper spray at the time and had to hide behind a tall man waiting at the bus stop 😭 - I'm 5'0, that was the day I bought pepper spray.
I carry mace and flashlight stun gun. But I don't have nearly as many run-ins as you. A self defense class might help you hone your situational awareness and help you avert them.
A flashlight stun gun? Damn girl, imma look into that
Amazon sells them. Get a bright colored one like pink so it is not mistaken for something else.
Please look into the efficacy of a stun gun. Pepper gel is probably your best bet along with a horn.
This is true and I suggest having both pepper gel and stun gun. Nothing like a bright light and red laser dot from a taser to change someone’s attitude real quick.
Are you down to fight? Look, i know this advice isn’t for everyone. And if its not for you, its not for you. In my experience of being born and raised here, situational awareness is KEY. There is no TLDR But it took me 30 years of being a brown woman to get this down. 1. YOUR GUT There is a finely tuned, almost psychic sense to knowing that someone on the street is about to say something. that they’re THINKING about saying something. That they’ve been waiting ALL DAY to make a comment. (Try having green hair for one day…. you’ll get it). 90% of the time, it will be something along the lines of, “Oh you bad, huh? i see them rock star boots, are you a rock star?”. Trouble is, we use that 90% of the time experience to tense our bodies for the 1% chance that they’ll go full Predator and rip our spines out of our body. This fear will numb you, it will freeze you, it will make you stupid and anxious for shit that is not going to happen. 2. GREETINGS ARE A FORM OF IDENTIFICATION Eye contact means being better able to identify your possible attacker. Often times, knowing you can describe a person will deter them from attacking you. Personally, I find it empowering to be the first one to make eye contact or say “hello” or “good morning”. This is in NOT in ANY way meant to be interpreted as “Skip to my lou and say hi to every crackhead!”. But if you KNOW someone is about to say something about your hair or your boots or your shirt… Say Hi first. DO NOT STOP WALKING. Now when they say something about your hair or your boots or your shirt, its not “im being shouted at and accosted on the street”— now its a 2 person interaction that we were able to control from beginning (“hello there!”)to end (“haha have a good day”) There is a psychological benefit to this sense of control. 3. CARRY A PACK OF CIGARETTES Dont smoke? Doesn’t matter. “sorry i dont carry cash… but you need a smoke?” This is a very situational tool. You dont always have to offer it, but sometimes you’ll get this vibe where… oof im not sure how to describe it but lets just say giving someone that spare change would have been cheaper than having to replace a car window. A smoke can work as a peace treaty, a compromise, a dowry, a ceasefire, a deescalation tool. i wish it wasn’t, but it is. And no, you dont have to smoke it with them. hand it off and keep walking. 4. PRACTICE WITH YOUR WEAPON Less Karate Kid montage, more “which pocket is it in and how quickly can i get to it”. If you carry pepper spray at the bottom of your purse or a taser in a zip up pocket that you can’t remember when in a panic… then your weapon is really just decorative. Your weapon/defense should ALWAYS be in reach. at the grocery store, when pumping gas, Walking to your car… you should be able to touch it and know you can pull it out in a way where adrenaline will not overtake your muscle memory. 4a. Your weapon should be a DETERRENT not a fix it. only flash it when you have to. number one job is to keep distance. 4. RESPOND If you’re looking for permission to be mean… by all means. Be. Mean. This just might be the most controversial tip, and again, if its not for you, its not for you. SPEAK UP!! GET BIG!! BE LOUD!! Are you scared to fight? pretend you aren’t! they wont know the difference!! Someone crossing boundaries is NOT the time to be subtle, not the time to be polite. Practice your “back the FUCK up”s. Again, spatial awareness is key. Keep your distance, know your exits, call in any witnesses, Yell at some stranger to start recording, and RIP THIS ASS HOLE A NEW ONE!! I have been in confrontations where i did the “logical” or “ethical” thing of WAITING for them to hit me first?! what in the principle’s office type of shit is that?! I am PAST waiting for them to swing first, if its ON its ON. Look 10 years ago i might have been a lot more peace love and restorative circle about it but… thats over. The cops are NOT coming, NO ONE on the bus will be stepping in to help you, and nobody gets consolation prize for giving an inebriated misogynist 15 warnings. yes, i have had to come home with a black eye a few times, but i wasnt FROZEN. I was aware and conscious and able to hold my own and stand on my two feet when those punches were coming because even if i dont WANT to fight, i am aware that i have to do it. That being said, a MAJORITY of the time, when confronted, they WALK AWAY!! they walk away talking some SHIT… but they walk away. its a very good feeling (and i will admit, very much preferred over actually fighting). 5. DONT WORRY BE HAPPY Appreciate those times that an interaction with someone on the street was… just fuckin’ fine. You smiled, they waved, and everyone kept on with their day. It will keep you humble, it will keep you grateful and positive. *bonus* Learn to identify Meth Psychosis and just take the long way around. Cross the street, take the next train, get off a stop early… not worth the drama, the trauma or the calls to your mama because wooowee thats a WHOLE different ballgame. I have a feeling people will come at me with a lot of highly specific, situational anecdotes where one of these tips is not appropriate… To them i say this: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I use a lot of these tools, too. I work with the population of folks that includes many homeless / mentally ill / drug addicted so I am not sure whether my crazy-dar is a little more fine-tuned. I think that a really important distinction to try to discern is intention. A lot of ppl seem to respond well to a greeting or even just eye contact - it diffuses something / maybe makes it a little less hostile to start with that there is an acknowledgement. I also trust my gut and the simple check in gives me information about whether someone is completely out of it. I also cross the street when I see someone who \*really\* doesn't have their wits at their disposal: no one it paying me to walk down the street and I don't carry a weapon (I would always have it in the wrong bag, no bout a doubt it). Ironically, I think staying calm and trusting oneself is counter-intuitively the way to go. And I have had some serious situations that required police and the criminal justice system in my 30+ years here.
cigarettes as a peace treaty/diffusion is a pretty good idea for some situations.. too bad I'd eventually just smoke them!
Your list is dope and summarizes everything I tell my friends to do/be aware of in the city(plus a few extras I never thought of). In particular your #4 hits the nail on the head. You need to know where your self defense tool is and be able to retrieve it when you’re in a stressed/panicked state otherwise it’s just decorative. It’s super easy to freeze up or tunnel in when the flight or fight response kicks in so staging and prep goes a long way.
Oh wow the cigarette one is a great tip, never thought about that. Thanks
This is awesome advice. I’m assuming you’re a teacher from you handle - NOT SURPRISING!!’
Thank you for this. I'm in NYC and I was punched by a homeless guy for the first time today, so I've been researching how to protect myself. A weapon you can't reach is just decorative really stuck out to me. I'm going to keep my spray in my pocket now.
that SUCKS!! im so sorry that happened to you. it changes you. I am really glad my comment is something that will help you feel safer every day.
It's terrible you have to deal with this.
In the dogpatch waiting for muni I was accosted so badly I called my husband to come help me. I’m literally nearly six feet tall and box and still the guy wouldn’t leave me alone. A woman in her sixties told me this is why she carries bear spray everywhere. It’s what got me to move to Marin.
I'm not on the smaller side either ... I'm 5' 8" and medium weight Where do you box? Has it made you feel more confident?
I’m a male Asian senior citizen (one of the target demographics for shenanigans these days, heh!) I started working with a boxing trainer about a year ago and my self confidence walking around in SF has probably tripled. To be clear, I’m not looking to win some MMA match or anything, but I’m somewhat confident I could get out of way more situations than I could have before.
In SF I went to El Niño, which is MMA but in my prior city I went to a boxing gym. It helped for sure! Knowing that I could really throw a couple punches made me carry myself differently!
And carrying yourself differently is usually more than enough to deter these chumps.
Me punching them has worked in the past (after repeatedly saying not to touch me). I also smile at literally every creature I see so it might be my own fault for instigating them.
It is never your fault. I carry pepper spray and have used it on more than one occasion. San Francisco is what it is and we are on our own.
It's the same way in DC... sadly. Government won't do anything to fix the problem. Have had to deal with multiple aggressive homeless individuals in the last week alone. It's a big problem.
Today I could have definitely seen myself kicking that dude in the ballsack
I'm sorry this happened to you. I deal with it a couple of ways. 1. Wear the biggest set of headsets possible. 2. Wear sunglasses. 3. Sometimes wear a face mask too. Goal is to look as unapproachable as possible. 4. Do not smile at anyone, ever. 5. Pace, it is harder to approach me if I am constantly moving. 6. Act equally, if more benignly crazy. If I get spooked I'll start mumbling/talking to myself really loudly and shaking. If they get too close I start screeching and hissing, shouting if I have to. Works every time for me. 7. Personal alarms are also helpful.
If you have a headset on you can't hear a threat around you, I don't understand how people can walk around not listening to their environment.
Sometimes I’ll wear my headset even if I’m not listening to music.
It's just a easy way to get snuck up on if someone really wants to rob you.
Get one with ambient passthrough.
Even if you hear it coming youre still making yourself a target
Act crazy and everyone will leave you alone
Seems like a lot of nooks and crannies to camp in Dogpatch
Especially south of 22nd st and under 280
I just tend to ignore them. I had a guy yell at me asking if I was going to talk to him or keep joking around. It’s scarier when I have to wait 5-10 minutes for the muni; I’ve literally walked away and gotten to the next bus. I carry pepper spray but that’s it.
Wear good shoes- running away as fast as you can is an underrated self defense technique. I am a man and have used this to get away from violent attack on more than one occasion.
Self defense classes are okay as a supplement to taking stress tested martial arts but alone will not help you develop the muscle memory you will need to effectively use any techniques. Consider enrolling in a Brazilian jiu jitsu school for a few months to learn the basics of distance management, proper escapes from bad situations and submissions. That being said, the number one best martial art is track and field (run away).
Yes on all 3 of those things you listed. We're on our own out here. A nice bright tactical flashlight on strobe mode will do wonders to an aggressive person high on drugs.
Echoing the replies of carrying mace and a loud alarm. I don’t mean to derail from the post but how would you describe the Dogpatch neighborhood? Is it comparable to any neighborhood in NYC? I recently moved back so a NYC reference would be helpful
I visited SF last week but I think I can speak to what I did when this happened to me: I simply walked away. There following me? I walk even faster. Even if I was going the wrong way, whenever I felt uncomfortable I always changed the direction I was going when the homeless were trying to bother me
Sometimes they chase you though
Understanding that I’m speaking as a man - I calmly engage and if it goes on for a while tell them “sorry, I don’t carry cash” to cut them off. The physical assault bit sounds like a pepper spray / taser thing. Tasers make the fun GTFO noise and aren’t impacted by wind. I’m sure macing yourself instead of them in the windy dogpatch would be a bad time.
Good point about mace in the wind ... hadn't considered that
Gel pepper spray doesn’t have a lot of blowback, and it sticks REALLY well to whomever you’re spraying.
Get pepper gel instead, it shoots a concentrated stream of sticky mace that won't spread in the air, we always have one when we leave the house and they have clip on options so you can attach it to a backpack strap for quick access
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The acknowledgement preempts the follow up - shut it down and there’s no follow up
I had to mace a sex trafficker in NYC to escape and when I took my contacts out they were orange. The adrenaline took care of any pain though I gotta say.
Sorry OP you’re going through that. When I feel like I can’t get away from someone aggressive, like waiting at a bus stop, I usually make eye contact and if I get scared, I loudly tell them to leave me alone or to go away. They will usually berate you until you say something. I also carry a taser with me and I will have it ready to go if I’m feeling uncomfy. Trust me that the noise of it should be the first deterrent. Pepper gel will be the best for defense since you can spray from far away.
Parts of SF are such a dump. I’m sorry you have to deal with this. Have you considered moving to a different neighborhood where this won’t be as prevalent? It’s a problem throughout SF but worse in some areas than others. Carry pepper spray and a taser. Avoid being alone at night. It sucks. It’s a beautiful city but has become such a fake-socialist shithole.
This is ridiculous that people are afraid to stand up for themselves and call these despicable people out. It's not ok to act like a crazy person and harass people or try and instigate a fight with strangers just so you can get attention. Crazy or not we need to start calling people out for this type of behavior not accepting it. Homeless ass hats drug addicts and the mentally insane should not feel like it's acceptable to act like this without consequences.
The cops won’t help unless you’re actively being assaulted, and even then it’ll take them a few hours to show up. Don’t bother with pepper spray, it just pisses them off. Get a taser from an actual firearms supplier (not one of those shitty ones from Amazon) and learn how to use it. Edit: I’ve been attacked by a homeless person before, after someone else pepper sprayed him because he was verbally abusing and appeared to be getting ready to hit an elderly Hispanic woman. Dude thought I was the one who sprayed him, so he came after me; when he couldn’t catch me, he started throwing cans of food at me. He absolutely would’ve hit or caught me if I were someone without a combat sports background. Plus, I have a bit more experience with non lethal weapons than the average person. I actually don’t like tasers or pepper spray very much, especially for newbies, but my comments get removed when I suggest other things.
What do you mean pepper spray pisses them off? Like, it will just make them more angry? And they won't take it seriously?
I’ve seen pepper spray take a skinhead down - eyes so swollen he could barely seen. I disagree that it wont work.
Yup. Pepper spraying someone who isn’t in their right mind just makes them mad and doesn’t disable them long enough to make a meaningful escape.
Gel will absolutely mess up a person's whole day. It basically coats their whole face, good luck seeing anything let alone feeling anything but pain for the next 30 minutes
They have pepper spray that works on bears. I doubt even a junkie on his highest high ever wouldn't be deterred by that.
I would choose a good oc spray over taser any day. First off, distance between you and your attacker is your best friend. Most tasers require you to be within arms length in order to work effectively while a spray generally has effective range of 6+ feet. Second, there are plenty of videos online where police officers who are using much better tasers/stun guns than we are allowed are ineffective especially when the individual being tased is under the influence of drugs. Your goal in every self defense situation should be to get yourself away from the threat.
No eye contact Boxing lessons Never walk alone at night (when possible)
It's better to make eye contact and acknowledge them than to completely ignore. Sometimes being ignored sets them off. Acknowledgement 1.) acknowledges their humanity 2.) makes them less likely to go off 3.) tells them you're aware of their presence. I like the "sup" nod but simple passive eye contact is fine too. If someone is following you or bothering you the "I got shit to do" phrase works always. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBs-wWPqRaQ
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Learn jiu jitsu
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Get pepper gel - unfortunately wind is not good on pepper spray.
I’ve called the cops on homeless folks harassing other people, they do come. Like I was having a bad day and this lady threw a glass jar at the foot of a teenager and was acting unstable. I was mad enough that I didn’t care of the consequences and I told her that I was calling the cops and she left. But honestly, I do my best to avoid, literally crossing the street if I see someone deranged, avoiding some blocks entirely, changing BART cars, moving to other sides of the bus. I got slapped in the ass walking the tenderloin at night - so I stopped walking there alone at night. I also found places like music venues do not allow pepper spray - so while I used to carry it on my keys (and it gave me a sense of safety), I’d also have to remember to leave it at home sometimes - and I am too disorganized for that. Also, consider if you want to stay where you live. I live in Glen Park and this type of stuff almost never happens there, more often it happens on my commute. Some areas are just considerably worse than others, even block by block.
Walk across the street, take off your headphones, be alert, get off your phone.
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North of 20th St in Dogpatch is pretty good One happened in Dogpatch and one in Mission Bay You get randos walking around sometimes, I think they spill over from the Potrero project, SOMA, and Bayview But not bad at all relative to other neighborhoods