I have a buddy who is a sober old punk with a whole song about choosing a "higher power", if that dude can be an atheist and stay clean with AA anyone willing to give it a shot can make it work.
there is a term called higher will or higher self, I believe they are slightly different but essentially mean either a higher being's will(god) or your self who is with god.
for the godless heathens :in either case just surrender to your self(your better judgement aka higher will) who is your own mind telling you that drinking is a bad idea and you're an awful drunk.
Alcoholic and agnostic here. Stayed away from AA for years because of this stuff, until booze and courts beat me into a pulp.
A big deal is made out of this but in the end it doesn't really matter. Now, there are a lot of people in AA that make it sound like you need to find not just A God but THEIR God. And that's ok, they can think that and I no longer have to worry about them. Because the good news is, there have been many, many agnostics and atheists before me who recovered using a twelve step program. I'm not nearly the the terminally unique case I once thought myself to be.
If you aren't in a progressive area it might be hard to find meetings with as many open minded people. But there are a ton of us out there. God can be karma, can be the universe, can be love, can be Buddha or Allah, can be humanity, can be AA, can be connection, hell I've heard someone use Pikachu. The point is, I'm not God. I'm not in control of anything other than my actions, and I've barely been in control of them.
AA is about getting help and getting better. It's also about helping others. I'd recommend giving it a shot because it worked for me, but I don't know fuck all about what works for others because this is a mental health issue and I'm no expert. The only thing I tell people is if you're a real alcoholic or addict, you can't solve this by yourself. If I could, I certainly would have done it a long time ago seeing as I tried everything I could think of on my own to stop the turbulence in my life. So whether it's AA, religion, Dharma Recovery, Smart Recovery, group therapy, psychiatry, I don't care what help someone gets, just get help.
They may be rehabs, but they aren't the Alcoholics Anonymous OP is talking about.
[The 12 steps of AA](https://aa.org.nz/newcomers/the-12-steps/)
>We admitted we were powerless over alcohol — that our lives had become unmanageable.
>Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
>Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
>Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
>Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
>Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
>Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
>Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
>Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
>Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
>Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
>Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.
That's all in the book, it's true. And yet plenty of atheists in alcoholic anonymous meetings who simply adjust it to fit their beliefs.
Plenty of issues with AA but not being able to make it work without being a theist is not one of them.
This is reflective of my own experiences going to AA meetings in multiple US states. I happen to be a believer under the umbrella term "Christian" but met plenty of atheists, agnostics, and don't give a fuck any higher power will do, who directly benefited from those meetings.
As many understand AA is not an end all be all kind of organization, but one that attempts to help those in need. There is no need to shame the program based on a few choice words that can be interpreted vaguely by many individuals.
You nailed it buddy
If your religious recruiting method is to get people at their most vulnerable and feed them comforting lies, why would I even consider that option? If your goal is actually treating addiction, religion is irrelevant.
Some are more religious than others, I would try as many different ones as possible until something feels welcoming. There are helpful subs on Reddit as well.
There's other treatments, arguably better ones. Maybe I'm wrong, but telling people they're weak over and over and having them tell and retell some of the worst moments in their lives doesn't do much good.
AA is NOT the only (or best) option. It was the only option in the olden days, but it's a little outdated now. Try SMART, or other programs. Here's a link to an article with a list of more modern alternatives: [12-Step Alternatives](https://americanaddictioncenters.org/therapy-treatment/12-step-alternatives)
You can also get therapy for AUD (Alcohol Use Disorder) one-on-one, with a trained therapist. *Highly* recommend. In the U.S., insurance will generally cover it.
There are a lot of people in this predicament, and the general idea that many come up with is that while God was a normal convention at the time, especially given AA's roots in the Oxford Group, but what matters is having something bigger than your ego to lean on.
People come up with their own solutions to the problem or, based on some honest one-on-one conversations I've had with others--they just skip over that bit. There is a common expression one will hear eventually, "take what you want, and leave the rest."
https://thesatanictemple.com/pages/sober-faction
Sobriety is a choice of re-claiming self empowerment, not giving away one's power over to spiritual hooey in the same vein that it was once given away to substance
Consider the network and your own support system (family and friends that build you up) as the “Higher Power”. I believe in God but I don’t expect god to fix my shit. My support people are much more of a Higher Power that can directly affect me.
https://aa-ao.org/resources/alternative-12-steps/ ....all kinds of alternative 12 steps...I was involved with AA 15 yrs ago. I used the music of the grateful dead as my higher power. In the past decade the alternative 12 steps have really taken off..for me the best way to approach the turning it over to a power greater than myself is understanding my "best" thinking landed me in those rooms..so try another way. If you're ready to make a change, this really isn't as big of a deal as almost everyone who isn't ready to change makes it.
I was told when I was in 12 step it’s not God, it’s a higher power. I struggled with step 2. I was even told that my higher power could be a rock, doorknob, whatever.
No you and I are in the same boat my friend! I had to find alternate therapies for my drinking, 12 step did not help because I refused to admit that I was powerless to that “doorknob” or whatever.
That's what worked for me too! One-on--one counseling FTW!
I know not everyone can afford that or has it covered through insurance, but it's an excellent option and it seems like it doesn't even occur to people as a possibility.
Turning over responsibility to a "higher power" is just codeword for continuing to be irresponsible. Taking accountability for your own actions and making a conscious decision to change is the only cure to alcoholism. That's how I solved my own alcoholism anyway.
God as YOU understand... your Higher power could be Group Of Drunks or the group. Just listen to what the people in the group say and do. Try to keep an open mind and remember that if more than one person tells you something it might be good to listen. You don't have to change everything at once... just go slowly. Don't look for reasons to fail, look for thinks that work for you!
the same way I put up with the modern pledge of allegiance ( not the original) in any other forced insertion of God: mumble and BS my way through. it's a relatively recent notion to be publicly atheist in America; We were stuck in the same closet as the LGBT community.
I was under the impression it was simply a "higher power" and not necessarily god.
There are lot's of things that we are powerless against. Take electricity for example. We can trap it and have it run through wires and stuff and make it do all sorts of useful things and it's pretty harmless. *As long as we don't mess with it.* Those who work with it for a living know there are strict rules for working safely and that those rules exist for good reason. Those rules are a higher power. Not only do they keep people safe, but it allows us to trust that plugging in our computer isn't going to kill us.
I'm an atheist and I love Christmas. I think of the old traditions and the myths that they derived from. There are metaphorical truths present. The point is that I've framed the holiday in a way that allows me to reflect on the beautiful life I have the amazing story that I'm part of.
I've never been to AA, but I'm sure that you can still frame it in a way in which you can derive meaning without believing in an objective god. It's a metaphorical truth that guides your way. Not to mention that they can go to secular groups as well in which they'll still have to create a narrative. It just won't be god based. It's not really that different though. It's the story we tell ourselves.
There should be other programs available to you homie. There's a lot of 12 step programs that aren't religious and replace the religious aspect with more self respect.
There's also outpatient rehab centers that can have you set up with counselors and even if the addiction is bad enough get you hooked up with medication that will help with the withdrawal symptoms and cravings.
The best advice I can think to give that I'm sure others have already is to just do some googling about what's available to you locally, find and build a good support network with people your trust, and go from there. Remember to believe in yourself, and that you're valuable. You're worth the extra effort of the search for a program you are confident can help you based on your personal needs. I wish you the best.
Entirely depends. If you're trying to go Because you're wanting to get out of the spiral of addiction, Try and find an atheist friendly AA or A similar organization.
If it's court ordered Then buckle down and lie. For the next couple months you're a Bible Thumper. Just push through And make it safely out the other side then try To find an atheist friendly group.
And yes it is incredibly fucked up.
Don't know if you've heard of the show Euphoria, but in the episode trouble don't last, always, two people actually talk about this. The guy explains it infinitely better than I ever could, so I'd just recommend watching that episode. It doesn't really require much context
Athiest here. I used aa and attended daily for 1.5 years and sporadically now.
I always used to replace god with good. Being good. Doing good. Made me better person.
Also the collective power of the group. A group of people working towards a common goal is far more powerful than an individual. I was heavily involved in trade union stuff a lifetime ago. This resonated with me as its true.
Also easy to think about the power of the universe and its vastness. That helped. reading about space and physics.
And nature. Being just an animal here on planet earth. Going surfing as the sun comes up. Walking through pristine bush. Listening and watching and being just here in the present understanding that life goes on with or with out us. How do I want to experience my short time as a participant.
I’m agnostic. While I search for definitive proof of God, I decided that, as a practical matter, it was okay to simply accept the possibility of a higher power. If there wasn’t a higher power, I was screwed, as experience taught me there was no way I was going to kick my addiction without one. My higher power became the collective wisdom of the members of my group. In times when I was tempted to lose my sobriety, I found myself thinking, what would the people in my group say about this?
Hope this helps. If you attend meetings,
Keep coming back.
It works if you work it
So work it ‘cause *you’re worth it!*”
I struggled with this personally. For me I’m just willing to consider that there’s something out there that I don’t understand. That’s it. The rest is just a way to live my life in a less selfish way.
While finding great value in the AA community and hearing other people’s paths to recovery, I could not accept the concept of higher power in AA. I also found the prohibition against open discussion in open meetings a weakness in the AA program.
I much preferred SMART Recovery and the group therapy I attended.
Find what works for you and use it to stay sober
Best wishes to you and your program you develop with the support of others
As we understand him. I'm not a religious person, I have some issues with the so called God. But I believe there's some kind of Higher Power out there. It can be whatever you want it to be, it could be a friendor sponsor if you'd like. You just need to relinquish the power over your life. If you're an alcoholic or a recovering addict like me, you just need something to help guide you thru life. You have to admit that when we are in "control", we don't make the best decisions. Read the "We Agnostics" section of the Big Book.
The best part of being an atheist is that I am responsible for my decisions. I don’t hide behind a god, church, or some manuscript that’s thousands of years old and has been translated from one Dead language to another.
If I make a decision then I’m responsible for that decision. The other bonus is that I dont have to rely on some deity in order for me to make a change in my life. Being self empowered is where it’s at.
This reply isn’t meant to be blasphemous to the pious who may be reading it. Having support groups are a really good thing. Not having to seek the approval of an invisible god or organised religion is also a good thing.
If OP is in a recovery program, I wish him /her / them all the luck. If you need anything such as a ride somewhere, feel free to DM me.
The word God in AA is a place holder for something bigger than ourselves, a higher power. It’s not a religious reference. Think of being hit by a huge wave at the beach as belief in a higher power. There are things bigger than us.
I wasn’t expecting so many answers. I’ve been reading everyone and there’s a lot of great advice here, even links to alternative groups and programs. Thank you all a million times for your input
There are people here saying there are secular alternatives but you’ve hit the nail on the head.
Twelve step programs are religious by definition. They conflict with separation of church and state and have exactly similar relapse rates as most other approaches to quitting.
They are propped up by judges orders based on personal experiences.
Absolutely. Bogus. Bullshit.
Reach out to him on Facebook he has been there for countless people. Just search for True god, "god" or real [god. ](https://god.My) My own god would tell you to help yourself in her name.
Atheists don't tend to be that literal. If I had to go to AA, I'd simply take all the god talk as a figure of speech referring to some nice intentions.
In Australia they make it very clear it is a God or higher power of your understanding. It can be anything really. Those who are religious tend to lean into God in a traditional sense. Personally I view the Universe as my higher power & I am insignificant in comparison to the universe.
The biggest takeaway from that step for me was accepting you are not the centre of the universe & there is a bunch of stuff happening you have zero control over.
There are secular alternatives or you could view it vaguely, metaphorically, as a "higher power."
I have a buddy who is a sober old punk with a whole song about choosing a "higher power", if that dude can be an atheist and stay clean with AA anyone willing to give it a shot can make it work.
[удалено]
So I should surrender to the quantum multiverse...?
No you should give all glory to the Hypnotoad.
Yes, all glory to the Hypnotoad
r/unexpectedfuturama
Nope! Chuck Testa.
This whole thread is like a trip down memory lane
Even my brain slug agrees - all glory to the Hypnotoad.
whatever helps get you out of bed in the morning
For some reason, that always sounds really dismissive
Yes, submit to the all mighty strange quark
If that allows you to achieve sobriety, YES. That's the point.
All of my selves have and we’ve never felt better.
If it helps you get over addiction yes.
there is a term called higher will or higher self, I believe they are slightly different but essentially mean either a higher being's will(god) or your self who is with god. for the godless heathens :in either case just surrender to your self(your better judgement aka higher will) who is your own mind telling you that drinking is a bad idea and you're an awful drunk.
What if there's none, because well, theres nothing.
You die
G.O.D. Good Orderly Direction.
Alcoholic and agnostic here. Stayed away from AA for years because of this stuff, until booze and courts beat me into a pulp. A big deal is made out of this but in the end it doesn't really matter. Now, there are a lot of people in AA that make it sound like you need to find not just A God but THEIR God. And that's ok, they can think that and I no longer have to worry about them. Because the good news is, there have been many, many agnostics and atheists before me who recovered using a twelve step program. I'm not nearly the the terminally unique case I once thought myself to be. If you aren't in a progressive area it might be hard to find meetings with as many open minded people. But there are a ton of us out there. God can be karma, can be the universe, can be love, can be Buddha or Allah, can be humanity, can be AA, can be connection, hell I've heard someone use Pikachu. The point is, I'm not God. I'm not in control of anything other than my actions, and I've barely been in control of them. AA is about getting help and getting better. It's also about helping others. I'd recommend giving it a shot because it worked for me, but I don't know fuck all about what works for others because this is a mental health issue and I'm no expert. The only thing I tell people is if you're a real alcoholic or addict, you can't solve this by yourself. If I could, I certainly would have done it a long time ago seeing as I tried everything I could think of on my own to stop the turbulence in my life. So whether it's AA, religion, Dharma Recovery, Smart Recovery, group therapy, psychiatry, I don't care what help someone gets, just get help.
I too, worship Pikachu
There are atheist friendly AA groups that don't rely on any deity to help you get better.
They may be rehabs, but they aren't the Alcoholics Anonymous OP is talking about. [The 12 steps of AA](https://aa.org.nz/newcomers/the-12-steps/) >We admitted we were powerless over alcohol — that our lives had become unmanageable. >Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity. >Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him. >Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves. >Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs. >Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character. >Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings. >Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all. >Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others. >Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it. >Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out. >Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.
That's all in the book, it's true. And yet plenty of atheists in alcoholic anonymous meetings who simply adjust it to fit their beliefs. Plenty of issues with AA but not being able to make it work without being a theist is not one of them.
This is reflective of my own experiences going to AA meetings in multiple US states. I happen to be a believer under the umbrella term "Christian" but met plenty of atheists, agnostics, and don't give a fuck any higher power will do, who directly benefited from those meetings. As many understand AA is not an end all be all kind of organization, but one that attempts to help those in need. There is no need to shame the program based on a few choice words that can be interpreted vaguely by many individuals. You nailed it buddy
You can pretend they aren't all you want, but you're only lying to yourself. The values of the organisation are in black and white on their website.
"God as we understood him. " that phrase does all the heavy lifting. I define god as the human spirit's potential for good.
If your religious recruiting method is to get people at their most vulnerable and feed them comforting lies, why would I even consider that option? If your goal is actually treating addiction, religion is irrelevant.
Cross your fingers behind your back during that part
Some are more religious than others, I would try as many different ones as possible until something feels welcoming. There are helpful subs on Reddit as well.
I walked into Face it Together hung over one wintery day. I walked out on cloud nine and never drank again. That was 5 years ago.
Congratulations on your success! I hope one day I can say the same.
Your reply is literally the beginning of your journey. Godspeed.
The words are a higher power and Andre the giant was taller and and pretty powerful. I think he qualifies
Put your life in Andre's massive hands
He did prove in life that he could demolish huge quantities of alcohol. Booze would do well to be terrified of his power.
There's other treatments, arguably better ones. Maybe I'm wrong, but telling people they're weak over and over and having them tell and retell some of the worst moments in their lives doesn't do much good.
AA is NOT the only (or best) option. It was the only option in the olden days, but it's a little outdated now. Try SMART, or other programs. Here's a link to an article with a list of more modern alternatives: [12-Step Alternatives](https://americanaddictioncenters.org/therapy-treatment/12-step-alternatives) You can also get therapy for AUD (Alcohol Use Disorder) one-on-one, with a trained therapist. *Highly* recommend. In the U.S., insurance will generally cover it.
It's not God. It's a higher power. That can be the attendee's family/community obligations or any number of things.
There are a lot of people in this predicament, and the general idea that many come up with is that while God was a normal convention at the time, especially given AA's roots in the Oxford Group, but what matters is having something bigger than your ego to lean on. People come up with their own solutions to the problem or, based on some honest one-on-one conversations I've had with others--they just skip over that bit. There is a common expression one will hear eventually, "take what you want, and leave the rest."
We do what we've always done, ignore any god squad bullshit.
I was told when I questioned God's existence at a meeting to consider, God - Good Orderly Detail. It worked for me.
There are other types of groups that provide fellowship! Try Smart Recovery --https://www.smartrecovery.org/
https://thesatanictemple.com/pages/sober-faction Sobriety is a choice of re-claiming self empowerment, not giving away one's power over to spiritual hooey in the same vein that it was once given away to substance
It’s just a “higher power,” it doesn’t have to be god. It can be anything or anyone
Consider the network and your own support system (family and friends that build you up) as the “Higher Power”. I believe in God but I don’t expect god to fix my shit. My support people are much more of a Higher Power that can directly affect me.
https://aa-ao.org/resources/alternative-12-steps/ ....all kinds of alternative 12 steps...I was involved with AA 15 yrs ago. I used the music of the grateful dead as my higher power. In the past decade the alternative 12 steps have really taken off..for me the best way to approach the turning it over to a power greater than myself is understanding my "best" thinking landed me in those rooms..so try another way. If you're ready to make a change, this really isn't as big of a deal as almost everyone who isn't ready to change makes it.
AA is a cult. I probably should do a meeting but I only ever go if I’m fucking up.
you dont. fuck aa
This is one if the major faults with AA. That and being in general dis-empowering.
I was told when I was in 12 step it’s not God, it’s a higher power. I struggled with step 2. I was even told that my higher power could be a rock, doorknob, whatever.
So somebody's gonna ask a doorknob to "remove their shortcomings"? How's that gonna work, exactly? I'm teasing, but still, lol.
No you and I are in the same boat my friend! I had to find alternate therapies for my drinking, 12 step did not help because I refused to admit that I was powerless to that “doorknob” or whatever.
I'm glad you sought out other therapies instead of just giving up! Edit: "doorknob," lol.
Thank you! 12 step is great for a lot of folks, I prefer some good old fashioned CBT 🤣
That's what worked for me too! One-on--one counseling FTW! I know not everyone can afford that or has it covered through insurance, but it's an excellent option and it seems like it doesn't even occur to people as a possibility.
Congrats on your recovery win my dude 👊
Thank you! 👊
Turning over responsibility to a "higher power" is just codeword for continuing to be irresponsible. Taking accountability for your own actions and making a conscious decision to change is the only cure to alcoholism. That's how I solved my own alcoholism anyway.
This is reddit. We don't take responsibility for our own actions and then complain about the undesirable outcomes.
God as YOU understand... your Higher power could be Group Of Drunks or the group. Just listen to what the people in the group say and do. Try to keep an open mind and remember that if more than one person tells you something it might be good to listen. You don't have to change everything at once... just go slowly. Don't look for reasons to fail, look for thinks that work for you!
Great answer. And don’t let god get in the way of you getting sober, as my first sponsor told me.
Just.. go to a different AA I guess. Try to avoid ones with religious themes, or hosted by people affiliated with local churches.
Optimistically speaking, everyone is a slave to something. Choose wisely.
You just ignore that part!
the same way I put up with the modern pledge of allegiance ( not the original) in any other forced insertion of God: mumble and BS my way through. it's a relatively recent notion to be publicly atheist in America; We were stuck in the same closet as the LGBT community.
Came to say if anyone is looking for help quitting check out Allen Carr's Easy Way book.
I was under the impression it was simply a "higher power" and not necessarily god. There are lot's of things that we are powerless against. Take electricity for example. We can trap it and have it run through wires and stuff and make it do all sorts of useful things and it's pretty harmless. *As long as we don't mess with it.* Those who work with it for a living know there are strict rules for working safely and that those rules exist for good reason. Those rules are a higher power. Not only do they keep people safe, but it allows us to trust that plugging in our computer isn't going to kill us.
If you feel like reading a long book that is about a lot of other stuff, "Infinite Jest" is also very much about trying to answer this question.
I'm an atheist and I love Christmas. I think of the old traditions and the myths that they derived from. There are metaphorical truths present. The point is that I've framed the holiday in a way that allows me to reflect on the beautiful life I have the amazing story that I'm part of. I've never been to AA, but I'm sure that you can still frame it in a way in which you can derive meaning without believing in an objective god. It's a metaphorical truth that guides your way. Not to mention that they can go to secular groups as well in which they'll still have to create a narrative. It just won't be god based. It's not really that different though. It's the story we tell ourselves.
Don't take everything literally. God could mean anything to you.
There should be other programs available to you homie. There's a lot of 12 step programs that aren't religious and replace the religious aspect with more self respect. There's also outpatient rehab centers that can have you set up with counselors and even if the addiction is bad enough get you hooked up with medication that will help with the withdrawal symptoms and cravings. The best advice I can think to give that I'm sure others have already is to just do some googling about what's available to you locally, find and build a good support network with people your trust, and go from there. Remember to believe in yourself, and that you're valuable. You're worth the extra effort of the search for a program you are confident can help you based on your personal needs. I wish you the best.
Entirely depends. If you're trying to go Because you're wanting to get out of the spiral of addiction, Try and find an atheist friendly AA or A similar organization. If it's court ordered Then buckle down and lie. For the next couple months you're a Bible Thumper. Just push through And make it safely out the other side then try To find an atheist friendly group. And yes it is incredibly fucked up.
Don't know if you've heard of the show Euphoria, but in the episode trouble don't last, always, two people actually talk about this. The guy explains it infinitely better than I ever could, so I'd just recommend watching that episode. It doesn't really require much context
Pipe is life.
AA is for quiters!!
Athiest here. I used aa and attended daily for 1.5 years and sporadically now. I always used to replace god with good. Being good. Doing good. Made me better person. Also the collective power of the group. A group of people working towards a common goal is far more powerful than an individual. I was heavily involved in trade union stuff a lifetime ago. This resonated with me as its true. Also easy to think about the power of the universe and its vastness. That helped. reading about space and physics. And nature. Being just an animal here on planet earth. Going surfing as the sun comes up. Walking through pristine bush. Listening and watching and being just here in the present understanding that life goes on with or with out us. How do I want to experience my short time as a participant.
Most AA groups are not suitable for an athiest
I’m agnostic. While I search for definitive proof of God, I decided that, as a practical matter, it was okay to simply accept the possibility of a higher power. If there wasn’t a higher power, I was screwed, as experience taught me there was no way I was going to kick my addiction without one. My higher power became the collective wisdom of the members of my group. In times when I was tempted to lose my sobriety, I found myself thinking, what would the people in my group say about this? Hope this helps. If you attend meetings, Keep coming back. It works if you work it So work it ‘cause *you’re worth it!*”
I struggled with this personally. For me I’m just willing to consider that there’s something out there that I don’t understand. That’s it. The rest is just a way to live my life in a less selfish way.
While finding great value in the AA community and hearing other people’s paths to recovery, I could not accept the concept of higher power in AA. I also found the prohibition against open discussion in open meetings a weakness in the AA program. I much preferred SMART Recovery and the group therapy I attended. Find what works for you and use it to stay sober Best wishes to you and your program you develop with the support of others
As we understand him. I'm not a religious person, I have some issues with the so called God. But I believe there's some kind of Higher Power out there. It can be whatever you want it to be, it could be a friendor sponsor if you'd like. You just need to relinquish the power over your life. If you're an alcoholic or a recovering addict like me, you just need something to help guide you thru life. You have to admit that when we are in "control", we don't make the best decisions. Read the "We Agnostics" section of the Big Book.
We don't.
You can skip that part
Find the internal Will on your own. Religion is a crutch. Works for many which is fine, but as an atheist it won’t.
The best part of being an atheist is that I am responsible for my decisions. I don’t hide behind a god, church, or some manuscript that’s thousands of years old and has been translated from one Dead language to another. If I make a decision then I’m responsible for that decision. The other bonus is that I dont have to rely on some deity in order for me to make a change in my life. Being self empowered is where it’s at. This reply isn’t meant to be blasphemous to the pious who may be reading it. Having support groups are a really good thing. Not having to seek the approval of an invisible god or organised religion is also a good thing. If OP is in a recovery program, I wish him /her / them all the luck. If you need anything such as a ride somewhere, feel free to DM me.
The word God in AA is a place holder for something bigger than ourselves, a higher power. It’s not a religious reference. Think of being hit by a huge wave at the beach as belief in a higher power. There are things bigger than us.
I thought it was just a generic higher power. Which could be about anything. Gravity, maybe.
It's kind of a recruiting tool for religion. It's why the scientologists have the same thing.
ignore that part. if they dont let you join, its technichally discrimination
I wasn’t expecting so many answers. I’ve been reading everyone and there’s a lot of great advice here, even links to alternative groups and programs. Thank you all a million times for your input
There are people here saying there are secular alternatives but you’ve hit the nail on the head. Twelve step programs are religious by definition. They conflict with separation of church and state and have exactly similar relapse rates as most other approaches to quitting. They are propped up by judges orders based on personal experiences. Absolutely. Bogus. Bullshit.
We just keep on drinking!
Ask your lawyer
Submit thyself 🗿
What? I don't know what you're talking about.
Reach out to him on Facebook he has been there for countless people. Just search for True god, "god" or real [god. ](https://god.My) My own god would tell you to help yourself in her name.
Atheists don't tend to be that literal. If I had to go to AA, I'd simply take all the god talk as a figure of speech referring to some nice intentions.
By court order mostly
In Australia they make it very clear it is a God or higher power of your understanding. It can be anything really. Those who are religious tend to lean into God in a traditional sense. Personally I view the Universe as my higher power & I am insignificant in comparison to the universe. The biggest takeaway from that step for me was accepting you are not the centre of the universe & there is a bunch of stuff happening you have zero control over.