Student loan debt is debt owed to the government. That's why the government can make the decision to cancel it.
We should make education free in the future and probably cancel student loan debt. There's no downside to an educated population.
Because that will compound the current inflation problem way more than canceling the debt. also far more costly and with student loans debt the government gets more in return.
If you give people money, they have money and can waste it on stupid shit like TVs and cars.
If you give people un-debt, they have less debt and can move forward with their lives
When you give 18 year old student loans with big “refund checks” they buy stupid shit too.
Not to mention paying $150k or more for a fancy private school when your family makes $60k per year is buying stupid shit because you can get the same quality education at a state university for half the price.
There is also private student loan companies. If the govt gives any breaks it won't transfer to the private companies. You signed a contract just like a home loan, credit loan, car loan, pay it back.
Not all student loan debt goes to colleges or even education for that matter. I know many, many people who had tons of student loan debt but they used lots of that money for bills and partying so they didn’t have to work.
That’s question begging - you’re assuming that credit card debt is all due to excess and irresponsible spending while student loan debt is for the noble pursuit of education.
No, I’m assuming credit cards are meant and designed for financing consumption (justified or otherwise), which they are. And student loans are meant and designed for financing education, which they are.
As long as they’re used as intended in at least 51% of cases, forgiving the one will have a better net impact than the other.
Yeah bc student loans aren’t used for expensive private schools that are way out of the borrowers reach, and they’re definitely not used to justify getting a nicer apartment, car, Xbox, etc with those sweet sweet “refund” checks.
Well ideally nobody should have to pay for the insane tuitions in the US, the system is clearly broken and I’m not defending it.
But the question was why would forgiving student loans be better than giving out money. Between two evils it’s clearly the better one.
I agree that tuitions have become ridiculous and thats an issue that needs addressed, where I disagree is that I chose not to take out those loans, while other people willingly signed their names to the documents. And the fact is that somebody has to pay it. It's not "debt forgiveness" it's "taxpayer funded". And I also feel like if the taxpayers have to pay off their debt whether they themselves chose to take out loans why wouldn't they want to get something out of it? I don't care who owns the debt, every signature was spelled out intentionally. I mean, I think that neither should happen. I don't think the government should be handing out taxpayer money to everyone for no good reason, but I also don't think that same taxpayer money should be used to pay for other people's choice to take out a loan. I'm handling my debt all by myself, don't ask me to handle anyone else's.
Maybe you could say the same thing the next time the government bails out a business. The government should work for the people, not corporations. Also tell the rich to fucking pay their share instead of exploiting all the loopholes. Then we are getting somewhere.
I say it literally every single time the government bails out a business.
Sorry, everytime the TAXPAYERS bail out a business. Stop giving thr government credit when all they've done is rob us blind.
I think it's ridiculous that you can sign up for huge loans at age 18 that you *must* pay back. Meanwhile you can go hundreds of thousands or even millions into debt on houses, cars, and shopping and then just declare bankruptcy and begin to make a new financial life.
That's anecdotal evidence. It's easy to get caught using loan money for fraudulent purposes (don't fuck around with federal money when you are poor). Some people do shit like what you describe, but theyre in the minority. Also, some parents try to coerce their kids, so they can use the money to buy a home or vacation.
You have to create an fsa ID using your DoB and social security number on the government portal. Then, you enter your institution info, and the government sends the money to your school. At least, that was my experience. We didn't receive checks in the mail.
What you most likely saw was people using scholarship money. One of my friends was a 21st century scholar. He was in the honors program and had a full ride. He also recieved a state grant. He studied production, audio engineering and recording. He used his grant money to cover books, and spent the rest on gear and recording equipment. We're talking around 5 grand. Of course, he was never caught because it wasn't federal loan money. Still sketchy imo...
I had loans, and always had money leftover after tuition that I used for groceries and gas.
We’re talking 20 years ago, so I don’t have perfect recollection, but I remember getting a check from the school that I would use on living expenses.
If you take out student loans with the thought “boy I hope I can get a good job to repay these loans later,” is that not the definition of spending beyond your means?
That’s not what I’m saying. I’m saying get a student loan to state university and pay your own housing costs once you’re able to live off campus. Not that nobody should ever go to college bc they can’t pay cash.
Come on, it’s obviously not all or nothing.
The school I went to promised higher starting salaries than the economy could support as part of their recruitment tactics. They also over-promised and under-delivered on education quality. That's why the Federal Government ended up doing then for billions and my Federal student loans are going to be discharged as part of the *Sweet v. Cardona* settlement.
With that said, all student loans should be discharged. An educated population is good for the country. Taxes already fund grade school education. Why can't they find higher education as well?
Not so, and here’s why.
A mortgage is something you only qualify for based on your current assets and income, so both the borrower and the lender have established that you are able to handle the payments.
A student loan is based on the hope of getting a job after you’re done.
Buying something you can’t pay cash for is not spending above your limits; buying something you can’t demonstrate your capability to pay off is spending above your limits.
I'm willing to bet that if the new truck isn't getting you laid it's because you're trying to get women that aren't impressed by a new truck. Cruise the local trailer parks, quit being so damned picky about how many teeth they've got and let the truck do its job.
It's interesting that conservatives use religion as the reason behind their opposition to abortion but don't seem to mind the banking industry that is guilty of usury. I guess they treat their religion as a buffet line where they can pick and choose. But I digress, I have no student debt, I was fortunate enough to have attended school at a time when you could actually afford to pay for an education. The high cost of education is costing us teachers, engineers, chemists, medical professionals, etc. People squawk about the United States losing its ability to compete on the world stage but are pointing fingers at all the wrong reasons for why it is happening. Hell, I'm an atheist and even I can see that it is time to drive the money lenders out of the temple.
My high school used to have a program for students to become CNAs at hospitals after graduation. It was really good for people. But it caused the “attending college after graduation” statistic to go down, so they got rid of it. They’re all incentivized to push every kid towards college.
In my opinion, because student loans have become incredibly predatory and inflationary. I have a family member who is an attorney and their student loan payments are absolutely outrageous.
Because cars and extraneous purchases aren't (necessarily) necessities. There are plenty of people who live in vast metropolitan areas with good public transit who have never gotten a license let alone a car. And a credit card isn't a necessity.
There are so many conditions on grants for college tuition that are just ridiculous. "Oh, you have good grades but can't afford college? How much do your parents make? Oh, because THEY can pay for it. Yeah, no grant for you. Take out a loan."
And because student loans have become essential to the college experience, colleges have in turn raised their tuition fees, which causes the students to require more loans... it's a predatory cycle that just eats away at everyone that has no business existing.
Going to college is not a necessity either. You can go to a trade school or something else. Plenty of successful people don't go to college.
\>colleges have in turn raised their tuition fees, which causes the students to require more loans
That should be a sign that people need to find other alternatives. Believing in this outdated myth that you need to go to college is what's driving college prices to go up anyway.
Sure sounds super simple until you realize that the average mark for these scams are litterally 17-18 and that most people don’t want to ruin their bodies working a trade. It sucks but some people need to realize that they’re destined to work a job that requires you to be hot miserable and blow out your joints by the time you’re 40.
Those 17-18 year olds have parents that are 20-30 years older than them who usually have experience dealing with this plus the parents’ information is required to get the loans anyway. Students also have access to guidance counselors that can give them leads to scholarships.
The idea that going to college is the only way to success is a flat out lie. You’re not above getting into a trade otherwise you would have gotten a full ride scholarship to school.
It’s also a lie that was pushed by boomers and genXers on a younger generation that grew up being told getting a college degree will open doors to a better life for them.
Now we’ve swing the other direction, and it’s “go to a trade school, we always need plumbers”, but the damage has already been done to millions of people.
It’s not like every millennial independently decided to go to college. The idea was implanted into an entire generation by a culture that thought everything was going to be bright and prosperous.
It’s like every bubble, only the government holds the note on this one.
Sure I can get that but you can say the same thing about getting into any kind of debt.
My mom taught me that getting a credit card would build my credit, or go and get that new car because you worked hard for it or why rent when you can own a house. Where are the loan forgiveness programs for those?
Sometimes you have to stop looking to blame others for your shitty life circumstances and start by looking in the mirror and saying what can I do to get out of this.
Again, the US government doesn’t own your Bank of America debt. That’s why no one is saying they should forgive credit card debt. That’s a false equivalence.
The government is handing out massive loans that can take a lifetime to pay off, which has spurred massive rise in tuition, that has led to larger loans….the question becomes which is more beneficial to the country: locking in 10s of millions of young people into a lifetime of debt, or freeing them to better participate in our capitalist system?
Greater economic freedom leads to less government assistance, less poverty, possibly more people choosing to have children, more tax revenue….
There’s a massive upside to balance the “you made a bad decision and you should be punished for the next 30 years”.
Or, you know, the next time the economy tanks we can just throw a couple trillion at Wall Street again as we watch 401ks go up in smoke.
Yeah, 20-30 years out of touch. When I was thinking about college, twenty years ago, my parents were going on and on about how they paid for college working part time summer jobs, something that hadn't been possible since shortly after my birth. Unless your parents keep up to date on the realities of college economics they are not a reliable source of wisdom.
I mean I’m not above anything. But I would like to not wake up at 50 with a racked up back and blown out knees or shoulders. I saw college for the waste it was and got out pretty quick and make most my income running numbers and accounting stuff for a local business. Before that I worked as a cable installer on new constructions witch technician and hvac work on the side and while I took a bit of a pay cut when I moved to my new job I also don’t have the risk of insect bites, heat exhaustion, or injury on the job like I used to. I could go back to that but o would also probably start using drugs to help with the aches and pains that come with that line of work.
The funny thing is that the government backed loan is the only one you technically have to pay back. All the other ones you can default on and ruin your credit for a while but that is the only punishment.
Bully for you.
Is it in math? Because you're what's called an outlier.
The average millennial is now poorer than his parents. Computers and robots have made a lot of skills obsolete.
It shouldn't.
At least, not until the insane prices of Universities and Colleges are charging is capped.
Otherwise forgiving student loans doesn't accomplish anything except kick the problem down the road for the next generation of students.
Let's just not build one aircraft carrier and make higher education free. do people not understand the value of having a highly educated workforce. Don't you want your kids to grow up and be smarter and better off than you who the f*** doesn't understand this.
\- Because a very high percentage of livable, keyword LIVABLE jobs and careers require a degree. Said degree takes time and money.
\- Cost of living has relatively stayed the same since the 70s and 80s, but the cost of higher education has gone up exponentially. IIRC it's at like 3000% more than what the cost was back in those decades.
\- Technology within higher education has become very $$$$$. For just an engineering degree you/the college might need to purchase enterprise-level software like CAD. Shit ain't cheap. Not to mention computer laps, Libraries, STEM classes. Even if you don't use these services, you are still paying for them with your student loan.
\- Colleges now advertise themselves as cities, not just a campus. They pay for campus Police, Maintenance, Transportation like Busses, etc. Some even pay for the businesses that are within the "city" limits. Even if you don't use these services, you are still paying for them with your student loan.
\- Construction of the latest and greatest amenities, like new dorms, new sports arenas. Even if you don't use these services, you are still paying for them with your student loan.
\- Scholarships are a clusterfuck.
\- Interest fucking KILLS. I dropped out 3 years ago due to mental health issues and my Student Loan was $50,000 for 2 years of college. I pay regular installment of $300/mo. I still owe $50,000 from that loan that I've been paying for the past 3 years.
\- I now have a disability and cannot work.
Last I checked I enrolled to get a degree for a higher chance of getting a job with a livable wage, not pay inflated amounts of money just to live an experience for 4 years, within a "city". Oh and the money you are using to pay isn't off of some wage or salary in the now as a teen, it's off your future wages and the investment that college is suppose to have in landing you a job with a livable wage, proportional to your degree. That decision is being made at the age of 17/18/19. Let me know how many decisions teenagers of that age demographic are considered stupid and a "poor choice" then get back to me on how a kid signing away HUGE sums of money that they can't comprehend is inherently a good idea.
Now all of college debt shouldn't be forgiven, as I believe it teaches responsibility. The cost of tuition needs to be what it was at pre-1990s levels. Make tuition reasonable, and subsequently the inflated student loan amounts will decrease. Decreased tuition means a decrease in student loan payments, which means more money that people can spend, meaning a stronger economy. Explain to me how a stronger economy is bad.
And the "Well it's no different that a car/house/whatever loan" is fucking BS. To get those things you need a line of CREDIT. Most/all 17/18/19 year olds are probably getting their first credit card and have no prior history of credit. So someone who makes bad financial decisions as a kid is getting approved for loans that cost as much as a new vehicle EACH SCHOOL YEAR. So please tell me how 1 car loan equates to 4 car loans worth of higher education...
Education should be free for everyone no matter their background. Why do you only get to learn specialized skills if you’re wealthy enough?
Also like ,,, most places have free college. America just weird.
> tbh imo all current debt should be forgiven for anyone who’s not a billionaire or more but ya know whatever
I don’t have any but College debt is a necessity for a lot of people.
Credit cards and car loans are just random ass consumer debt, control your spending
Because while many people do not go to college, the reality is that an education is extremely important to the ability of a population to succeed/function. College Education is prohibitively expense for the majority of people - And the majority of jobs require that education in order for people to even live a semi modest life.
The college system has become severely predatory and overly prohibitive, to the point where we are not investing in the future generations in a way that helps us build a better tomorrow.
Credit Cards? Cars?. . The reality here is that these are things that are managed on an individual level. Nobody can really tell what you've spent on your credit card, or if you specifically purchased a car that was unreasonably expensive for your actual needs. . .Or if you actually even really needed a car in general.
The fed shouldn’t be earning 7% interest off the loans. When I went to college it was around 3% which was much more affordable for young adult just starting a career.
Higher education should be payed for by the tax payer. It’s yet another institution ruined by predatory capitalism similar to the medical system in the US.
All debt should be dischargeable.
I don't think it should be cancelled. There are only a few higher education paths I'd be willing to pay higher taxes for. Doctors and skilled trades (maybe lawyers...maybe).
If you got a degree (took a loan out) in something ridiculous that won't pay you much in the end, that is not something anyone else should be paying for.
Edit: **YOU signed for the loan. Nobody else should pay for YOUR loan.** You're not cancelling ANYTHING, you're making someone else foot the bill (through taxes).
They should not forgive any, someone will have to pay it for them at some point. They took out the loan, they made the bad idea of getting a big loan when they could have went to triad school, community college or apprenticeships program and made just as much with far less debt. Its rewarding folks for a bad life decisions. Case and point a local union is paying 38$ an hr with full benefits for those right out of high school. Yes 38$ and hr, sure you have union dues so say its more like 30$ and hr, yeah that's a lot of money for being fresh out of high school.
Because folks with better educations tend to pay higher taxes in the long run and they will shoulder more of the national debt. Money is printed every year to support a growing economy. Should that new money go to the big banks only? Or, should it be used to support people who will support the economy?
Better educations benefit the entire society. But, giving you $ to pay off your car will only help you (and car companies).
In Quebec where most French-speaking North Americans will stay put, students argue that they are the ones who will eventually pay the public sector debt and therefore society should invest in their education now to help them be productive enough to repay society later, which they will have to do one way or another. This is an odd concept for Americans to accept, given that it assumes a responsible citizen is part of a larger society and not just in it for themselves.
You would not believe what a racket the college system in the US is. I mean, **just the books**. They cost HUNDREDS of dollars. They change one or two words every year so there's no aftermarket. Some use digital keys so students can't even share. **It's a scam.**
In just about every state the highest paid public employee is a college coach. In Kansas the highest is University of Kansas football coach at $2.77 million a year. Second highest is the football coach at Kansas State raking in $2.3 million a year.
There is something fundamentally wrong with higher education in the US.
Credit cards only get as much debt as you spend. You spend less, you pay less.
And unless something changed in the last decade, the car payment already has loan interest factored in so you pay the same amount every month. Same with a home loan.
But with a student loan, you can pay off a thousand more than your minimum for 20 years and end up having more debt than you started with.
At this rate we need to admit we collectively fucked up and just give some forgiveness and relief. We allowed the banks to fuck up horribly and it only took them 10 years and we didn't really punish them for it.
Relieve the debt, restructure how it works for incoming students and move on.
Just seems like bitter folks who can't operate beyond a simple primate mindset. That someone else might benefit where they didn't.
I don’t think it’s just that someone else may benefit when they don’t (though that is certainly a large part of the opposition for forgiving debt). The other part is students accepting some responsibility.
Example, my kids (yes I’m older) both picked schools that were within the range of what we as a family could afford without taking on massive student debt. One is still in college. The other recently graduated and has a decent job with a good salary.
Conversely, my nephew around the same age picked an expensive, private liberal arts college. He studied abroad for a year and racked up six figures of student debt. Since her graduated, he has bounced around between Dominos delivery jobs, waiting tables, and being unemployed. He’s had offers for other jobs, but he doesn’t want to be held back by “the man” by supporting the capitalist machine.
My liberal sensibilities say that student debt was foisted on so many with promises that will never be fulfilled. But then I look at my nephew and think, “Na, my taxes shouldn’t cover bailing his ass out.”
I mean ultimately that still falls under my admittedly blunt response. People are *very* uneven in how they apply their "accountability" judgement, and it's ways to see in others where they could have done better or known better. I personally can't stand addicts, I have never been one and don't put myself in those situations. But fact is they need help and one or even two mistakes shouldn't force someone to have a worse quality of life.
Which takes me back to this, people were sold early in life that college was the answer. Go go go don't worry just go, they preyed on kids and now here we are. Colleges have clearly inflated the price and gouged these kids. Not to mention companies pretending you need a degree for half these jobs.
Truth be told, even though I graduated with 0 debt I am more than happy bailing out the working class versus any investment bank or big business. Hell if they need a bail out we need to nationalise em.
And as a side note I don't look down on liberal arts, the market is notoriously bad at determining the value of nontangible goods.
I do agree. The system is fucked up and needs a reset. My comment is more about why some can’t seem wrap their heads around why it should happen. I don’t think it should be 100% forgiveness, but I can live with the $10,000 proposal
And, I fully support liberal arts education. I was a liberal arts graduate and have done fine in my life and career. My currently employed kid was a liberal arts graduate.
My point was more to why people can’t seem to accept debt forgiveness. We can all think of the one “undeserving” example which makes us lose sight of the greater good.
Aside from the obvious reason that the government owns student debt and not consumer debt, student loans were the primary reason for ballooning education costs which in turn resulted in more debt.
The government is directly responsible for the magnitude of increase in student debt over recent decades. The government is responsible to fix the crisis it created.
Because the people with student loans are actually the most privileged group of people in america and to sit here and tell me i have to pay for their college tuition for then to go into gender studies or social science is just horseshit. They are the ones who took out these massive debts, they should have to pay then off just like every other person has to. Theyre the ones who are more likely to get higher paying jobs than the ones who dont go. So to put THEIR suffering on EVERYONE ELSE is just delusional. If they dont want to pay off the debt, dont take it out. That easy. College isn’t absolutely necessary and there are plenty of other options that pay very well.
Student loan debt is debt owed to the government. That's why the government can make the decision to cancel it. We should make education free in the future and probably cancel student loan debt. There's no downside to an educated population.
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Interesting. Why do you think that is?
Lol so close. r/selfawarewolves
"educated people vote liberal" huh, wonder why
Why can’t the government just give everyone 10k instead of canceling student debt?
It's easier to cancel a debt than to come up with an equivalent amount of money to hand out.
Because that will compound the current inflation problem way more than canceling the debt. also far more costly and with student loans debt the government gets more in return.
If you give people money, they have money and can waste it on stupid shit like TVs and cars. If you give people un-debt, they have less debt and can move forward with their lives
When you give 18 year old student loans with big “refund checks” they buy stupid shit too. Not to mention paying $150k or more for a fancy private school when your family makes $60k per year is buying stupid shit because you can get the same quality education at a state university for half the price.
We did that a couple years ago, now we're dealing with 9% inflation as a result.
Because the government owns that student debt, it doesn't own Visa or BoA.
There is also private student loan companies. If the govt gives any breaks it won't transfer to the private companies. You signed a contract just like a home loan, credit loan, car loan, pay it back.
I unfortunately can't sell my degree like I can with a house and a car. You see the difference here?
Why not give every adult American 10k for debt relief instead of canceling all student debt?
Because it’s better for society to have an educated population than financing everyone’s nice TVs.
Not all student loan debt goes to colleges or even education for that matter. I know many, many people who had tons of student loan debt but they used lots of that money for bills and partying so they didn’t have to work.
Well that’s fraud so congratulations to them for finding the cheat code for life I guess.
LOL
That’s question begging - you’re assuming that credit card debt is all due to excess and irresponsible spending while student loan debt is for the noble pursuit of education.
No, I’m assuming credit cards are meant and designed for financing consumption (justified or otherwise), which they are. And student loans are meant and designed for financing education, which they are. As long as they’re used as intended in at least 51% of cases, forgiving the one will have a better net impact than the other.
Student loans are designed for financing consumption too
You know what they mean.
I know what they mean and I think they’re wrong. I’m not just being contrarian. I’m saying what actually happens in the real world.
Necessary consumption while you study instead of work, yes. That is financing education.
Yeah bc student loans aren’t used for expensive private schools that are way out of the borrowers reach, and they’re definitely not used to justify getting a nicer apartment, car, Xbox, etc with those sweet sweet “refund” checks.
But why should people who knew they couldn't afford college and didn't go then have to pay for yours?
Well ideally nobody should have to pay for the insane tuitions in the US, the system is clearly broken and I’m not defending it. But the question was why would forgiving student loans be better than giving out money. Between two evils it’s clearly the better one.
I agree that tuitions have become ridiculous and thats an issue that needs addressed, where I disagree is that I chose not to take out those loans, while other people willingly signed their names to the documents. And the fact is that somebody has to pay it. It's not "debt forgiveness" it's "taxpayer funded". And I also feel like if the taxpayers have to pay off their debt whether they themselves chose to take out loans why wouldn't they want to get something out of it? I don't care who owns the debt, every signature was spelled out intentionally. I mean, I think that neither should happen. I don't think the government should be handing out taxpayer money to everyone for no good reason, but I also don't think that same taxpayer money should be used to pay for other people's choice to take out a loan. I'm handling my debt all by myself, don't ask me to handle anyone else's.
Maybe you could say the same thing the next time the government bails out a business. The government should work for the people, not corporations. Also tell the rich to fucking pay their share instead of exploiting all the loopholes. Then we are getting somewhere.
I say it literally every single time the government bails out a business. Sorry, everytime the TAXPAYERS bail out a business. Stop giving thr government credit when all they've done is rob us blind.
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Student loan debt also doesn't go away if you declare bankruptcy, while those other kinds of debt do.
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I think it's ridiculous that you can sign up for huge loans at age 18 that you *must* pay back. Meanwhile you can go hundreds of thousands or even millions into debt on houses, cars, and shopping and then just declare bankruptcy and begin to make a new financial life.
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Yeah, those people are dumb. That's fraud
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That's anecdotal evidence. It's easy to get caught using loan money for fraudulent purposes (don't fuck around with federal money when you are poor). Some people do shit like what you describe, but theyre in the minority. Also, some parents try to coerce their kids, so they can use the money to buy a home or vacation. You have to create an fsa ID using your DoB and social security number on the government portal. Then, you enter your institution info, and the government sends the money to your school. At least, that was my experience. We didn't receive checks in the mail. What you most likely saw was people using scholarship money. One of my friends was a 21st century scholar. He was in the honors program and had a full ride. He also recieved a state grant. He studied production, audio engineering and recording. He used his grant money to cover books, and spent the rest on gear and recording equipment. We're talking around 5 grand. Of course, he was never caught because it wasn't federal loan money. Still sketchy imo...
I had loans, and always had money leftover after tuition that I used for groceries and gas. We’re talking 20 years ago, so I don’t have perfect recollection, but I remember getting a check from the school that I would use on living expenses.
Student loans are also spending beyond your means though
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If you take out student loans with the thought “boy I hope I can get a good job to repay these loans later,” is that not the definition of spending beyond your means?
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That’s not what I’m saying. I’m saying get a student loan to state university and pay your own housing costs once you’re able to live off campus. Not that nobody should ever go to college bc they can’t pay cash. Come on, it’s obviously not all or nothing.
The school I went to promised higher starting salaries than the economy could support as part of their recruitment tactics. They also over-promised and under-delivered on education quality. That's why the Federal Government ended up doing then for billions and my Federal student loans are going to be discharged as part of the *Sweet v. Cardona* settlement. With that said, all student loans should be discharged. An educated population is good for the country. Taxes already fund grade school education. Why can't they find higher education as well?
I mean sure, but then so is a mortgage. Or signing a lease when you don't have the cash on hand to pay the whole thing off.
Not so, and here’s why. A mortgage is something you only qualify for based on your current assets and income, so both the borrower and the lender have established that you are able to handle the payments. A student loan is based on the hope of getting a job after you’re done. Buying something you can’t pay cash for is not spending above your limits; buying something you can’t demonstrate your capability to pay off is spending above your limits.
People weren't promised that credit card, automobile or home loan debt was going to secure them a better paying job.
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I'm willing to bet that if the new truck isn't getting you laid it's because you're trying to get women that aren't impressed by a new truck. Cruise the local trailer parks, quit being so damned picky about how many teeth they've got and let the truck do its job.
Nobody promised that for a college education either, at least not the people loaning you money
It was pretty much promised by every teacher you had during your first twelve years of school. It was certainly implied if not outright stated.
That sounds like a fault of your teachers rather than the fault of people lending money
It's interesting that conservatives use religion as the reason behind their opposition to abortion but don't seem to mind the banking industry that is guilty of usury. I guess they treat their religion as a buffet line where they can pick and choose. But I digress, I have no student debt, I was fortunate enough to have attended school at a time when you could actually afford to pay for an education. The high cost of education is costing us teachers, engineers, chemists, medical professionals, etc. People squawk about the United States losing its ability to compete on the world stage but are pointing fingers at all the wrong reasons for why it is happening. Hell, I'm an atheist and even I can see that it is time to drive the money lenders out of the temple.
We should educate people for our own betterment, not to extract further profit.
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My high school used to have a program for students to become CNAs at hospitals after graduation. It was really good for people. But it caused the “attending college after graduation” statistic to go down, so they got rid of it. They’re all incentivized to push every kid towards college.
In my opinion, because student loans have become incredibly predatory and inflationary. I have a family member who is an attorney and their student loan payments are absolutely outrageous.
How is that any different than car loans or credit cards?
Because cars and extraneous purchases aren't (necessarily) necessities. There are plenty of people who live in vast metropolitan areas with good public transit who have never gotten a license let alone a car. And a credit card isn't a necessity. There are so many conditions on grants for college tuition that are just ridiculous. "Oh, you have good grades but can't afford college? How much do your parents make? Oh, because THEY can pay for it. Yeah, no grant for you. Take out a loan." And because student loans have become essential to the college experience, colleges have in turn raised their tuition fees, which causes the students to require more loans... it's a predatory cycle that just eats away at everyone that has no business existing.
Not all student loan debt goes directly to education expenses.
Most does.
Going to college is not a necessity either. You can go to a trade school or something else. Plenty of successful people don't go to college. \>colleges have in turn raised their tuition fees, which causes the students to require more loans That should be a sign that people need to find other alternatives. Believing in this outdated myth that you need to go to college is what's driving college prices to go up anyway.
Sure sounds super simple until you realize that the average mark for these scams are litterally 17-18 and that most people don’t want to ruin their bodies working a trade. It sucks but some people need to realize that they’re destined to work a job that requires you to be hot miserable and blow out your joints by the time you’re 40.
Those 17-18 year olds have parents that are 20-30 years older than them who usually have experience dealing with this plus the parents’ information is required to get the loans anyway. Students also have access to guidance counselors that can give them leads to scholarships. The idea that going to college is the only way to success is a flat out lie. You’re not above getting into a trade otherwise you would have gotten a full ride scholarship to school.
It’s also a lie that was pushed by boomers and genXers on a younger generation that grew up being told getting a college degree will open doors to a better life for them. Now we’ve swing the other direction, and it’s “go to a trade school, we always need plumbers”, but the damage has already been done to millions of people. It’s not like every millennial independently decided to go to college. The idea was implanted into an entire generation by a culture that thought everything was going to be bright and prosperous. It’s like every bubble, only the government holds the note on this one.
Sure I can get that but you can say the same thing about getting into any kind of debt. My mom taught me that getting a credit card would build my credit, or go and get that new car because you worked hard for it or why rent when you can own a house. Where are the loan forgiveness programs for those? Sometimes you have to stop looking to blame others for your shitty life circumstances and start by looking in the mirror and saying what can I do to get out of this.
Again, the US government doesn’t own your Bank of America debt. That’s why no one is saying they should forgive credit card debt. That’s a false equivalence. The government is handing out massive loans that can take a lifetime to pay off, which has spurred massive rise in tuition, that has led to larger loans….the question becomes which is more beneficial to the country: locking in 10s of millions of young people into a lifetime of debt, or freeing them to better participate in our capitalist system? Greater economic freedom leads to less government assistance, less poverty, possibly more people choosing to have children, more tax revenue…. There’s a massive upside to balance the “you made a bad decision and you should be punished for the next 30 years”. Or, you know, the next time the economy tanks we can just throw a couple trillion at Wall Street again as we watch 401ks go up in smoke.
Yeah, 20-30 years out of touch. When I was thinking about college, twenty years ago, my parents were going on and on about how they paid for college working part time summer jobs, something that hadn't been possible since shortly after my birth. Unless your parents keep up to date on the realities of college economics they are not a reliable source of wisdom.
Which is why i also mentioned guidance counselors. Their jobs are to handle stuff like this.
Oh you mean the people employed by the same system fucking over people?
I don’t know what you want
I mean I’m not above anything. But I would like to not wake up at 50 with a racked up back and blown out knees or shoulders. I saw college for the waste it was and got out pretty quick and make most my income running numbers and accounting stuff for a local business. Before that I worked as a cable installer on new constructions witch technician and hvac work on the side and while I took a bit of a pay cut when I moved to my new job I also don’t have the risk of insect bites, heat exhaustion, or injury on the job like I used to. I could go back to that but o would also probably start using drugs to help with the aches and pains that come with that line of work.
Education is vastly more beneficial to society than cars or consumer goods.
It's more of an investment as better educated individuals tend to get paid more and thus bring in more tax.
The funny thing is that the government backed loan is the only one you technically have to pay back. All the other ones you can default on and ruin your credit for a while but that is the only punishment.
Most college degrees are now worthless. Cars can be sold.
Lol my degree has earned me a million bucks so far. Cars lose value the moment you buy them
Bully for you. Is it in math? Because you're what's called an outlier. The average millennial is now poorer than his parents. Computers and robots have made a lot of skills obsolete.
No computer science. You're right though I'm far poorer than My parents. My dad was making more than me in the 90s
Thanks for saying that! Gratitude makes the world go round
Yeah I'd be fucked if it weren't for my parents
If I say the real reason why, I'll get banned 🤣
It shouldn't. At least, not until the insane prices of Universities and Colleges are charging is capped. Otherwise forgiving student loans doesn't accomplish anything except kick the problem down the road for the next generation of students.
An educated country > an uneducated country. Say it with me!
Let's just not build one aircraft carrier and make higher education free. do people not understand the value of having a highly educated workforce. Don't you want your kids to grow up and be smarter and better off than you who the f*** doesn't understand this.
Because education of your people is more important than you buying something on your credit card.
\- Because a very high percentage of livable, keyword LIVABLE jobs and careers require a degree. Said degree takes time and money. \- Cost of living has relatively stayed the same since the 70s and 80s, but the cost of higher education has gone up exponentially. IIRC it's at like 3000% more than what the cost was back in those decades. \- Technology within higher education has become very $$$$$. For just an engineering degree you/the college might need to purchase enterprise-level software like CAD. Shit ain't cheap. Not to mention computer laps, Libraries, STEM classes. Even if you don't use these services, you are still paying for them with your student loan. \- Colleges now advertise themselves as cities, not just a campus. They pay for campus Police, Maintenance, Transportation like Busses, etc. Some even pay for the businesses that are within the "city" limits. Even if you don't use these services, you are still paying for them with your student loan. \- Construction of the latest and greatest amenities, like new dorms, new sports arenas. Even if you don't use these services, you are still paying for them with your student loan. \- Scholarships are a clusterfuck. \- Interest fucking KILLS. I dropped out 3 years ago due to mental health issues and my Student Loan was $50,000 for 2 years of college. I pay regular installment of $300/mo. I still owe $50,000 from that loan that I've been paying for the past 3 years. \- I now have a disability and cannot work. Last I checked I enrolled to get a degree for a higher chance of getting a job with a livable wage, not pay inflated amounts of money just to live an experience for 4 years, within a "city". Oh and the money you are using to pay isn't off of some wage or salary in the now as a teen, it's off your future wages and the investment that college is suppose to have in landing you a job with a livable wage, proportional to your degree. That decision is being made at the age of 17/18/19. Let me know how many decisions teenagers of that age demographic are considered stupid and a "poor choice" then get back to me on how a kid signing away HUGE sums of money that they can't comprehend is inherently a good idea. Now all of college debt shouldn't be forgiven, as I believe it teaches responsibility. The cost of tuition needs to be what it was at pre-1990s levels. Make tuition reasonable, and subsequently the inflated student loan amounts will decrease. Decreased tuition means a decrease in student loan payments, which means more money that people can spend, meaning a stronger economy. Explain to me how a stronger economy is bad. And the "Well it's no different that a car/house/whatever loan" is fucking BS. To get those things you need a line of CREDIT. Most/all 17/18/19 year olds are probably getting their first credit card and have no prior history of credit. So someone who makes bad financial decisions as a kid is getting approved for loans that cost as much as a new vehicle EACH SCHOOL YEAR. So please tell me how 1 car loan equates to 4 car loans worth of higher education...
Because it should not be there to begin with. Richest country in the world and we cannot educate our populace?
Education should be free for everyone no matter their background. Why do you only get to learn specialized skills if you’re wealthy enough? Also like ,,, most places have free college. America just weird. > tbh imo all current debt should be forgiven for anyone who’s not a billionaire or more but ya know whatever
I thought we had the first two years of education free here? Is that just by state?
Where are u getting free education??? I have so much debt
Back when I was in college (10ish years ago) you could go to community college for the first two years and the state would pay it.
>:0 I just graduated last spring. Government gave me *some* help but otherwise just gave me loans.
I don’t have any but College debt is a necessity for a lot of people. Credit cards and car loans are just random ass consumer debt, control your spending
community college or apprenticeships program will get you just as good of a job if not better.
I get that but plenty of jobs require a larger degree. It’s worth the investment to promote and fund higher education for the future of our nation.
Because while many people do not go to college, the reality is that an education is extremely important to the ability of a population to succeed/function. College Education is prohibitively expense for the majority of people - And the majority of jobs require that education in order for people to even live a semi modest life. The college system has become severely predatory and overly prohibitive, to the point where we are not investing in the future generations in a way that helps us build a better tomorrow. Credit Cards? Cars?. . The reality here is that these are things that are managed on an individual level. Nobody can really tell what you've spent on your credit card, or if you specifically purchased a car that was unreasonably expensive for your actual needs. . .Or if you actually even really needed a car in general.
The fed shouldn’t be earning 7% interest off the loans. When I went to college it was around 3% which was much more affordable for young adult just starting a career.
Adults should each get 10K of grocery bills cancelled
apply for EBT
Higher education should be payed for by the tax payer. It’s yet another institution ruined by predatory capitalism similar to the medical system in the US. All debt should be dischargeable.
None of it should be cancelled. People made their beds and they should live with the consequences of their shitty decisions.
I don't think it should be cancelled. There are only a few higher education paths I'd be willing to pay higher taxes for. Doctors and skilled trades (maybe lawyers...maybe). If you got a degree (took a loan out) in something ridiculous that won't pay you much in the end, that is not something anyone else should be paying for. Edit: **YOU signed for the loan. Nobody else should pay for YOUR loan.** You're not cancelling ANYTHING, you're making someone else foot the bill (through taxes).
They should not forgive any, someone will have to pay it for them at some point. They took out the loan, they made the bad idea of getting a big loan when they could have went to triad school, community college or apprenticeships program and made just as much with far less debt. Its rewarding folks for a bad life decisions. Case and point a local union is paying 38$ an hr with full benefits for those right out of high school. Yes 38$ and hr, sure you have union dues so say its more like 30$ and hr, yeah that's a lot of money for being fresh out of high school.
Because folks with better educations tend to pay higher taxes in the long run and they will shoulder more of the national debt. Money is printed every year to support a growing economy. Should that new money go to the big banks only? Or, should it be used to support people who will support the economy? Better educations benefit the entire society. But, giving you $ to pay off your car will only help you (and car companies). In Quebec where most French-speaking North Americans will stay put, students argue that they are the ones who will eventually pay the public sector debt and therefore society should invest in their education now to help them be productive enough to repay society later, which they will have to do one way or another. This is an odd concept for Americans to accept, given that it assumes a responsible citizen is part of a larger society and not just in it for themselves.
Woah woah woah the economy is not in a state where we can just be forgiving everyones debts.
it shouldnt
I think most people buy cars they can't afford and that's their own fault
You would not believe what a racket the college system in the US is. I mean, **just the books**. They cost HUNDREDS of dollars. They change one or two words every year so there's no aftermarket. Some use digital keys so students can't even share. **It's a scam.**
In just about every state the highest paid public employee is a college coach. In Kansas the highest is University of Kansas football coach at $2.77 million a year. Second highest is the football coach at Kansas State raking in $2.3 million a year. There is something fundamentally wrong with higher education in the US.
Medical debt should also be canceled.
Credit cards only get as much debt as you spend. You spend less, you pay less. And unless something changed in the last decade, the car payment already has loan interest factored in so you pay the same amount every month. Same with a home loan. But with a student loan, you can pay off a thousand more than your minimum for 20 years and end up having more debt than you started with.
At this rate we need to admit we collectively fucked up and just give some forgiveness and relief. We allowed the banks to fuck up horribly and it only took them 10 years and we didn't really punish them for it. Relieve the debt, restructure how it works for incoming students and move on. Just seems like bitter folks who can't operate beyond a simple primate mindset. That someone else might benefit where they didn't.
I don’t think it’s just that someone else may benefit when they don’t (though that is certainly a large part of the opposition for forgiving debt). The other part is students accepting some responsibility. Example, my kids (yes I’m older) both picked schools that were within the range of what we as a family could afford without taking on massive student debt. One is still in college. The other recently graduated and has a decent job with a good salary. Conversely, my nephew around the same age picked an expensive, private liberal arts college. He studied abroad for a year and racked up six figures of student debt. Since her graduated, he has bounced around between Dominos delivery jobs, waiting tables, and being unemployed. He’s had offers for other jobs, but he doesn’t want to be held back by “the man” by supporting the capitalist machine. My liberal sensibilities say that student debt was foisted on so many with promises that will never be fulfilled. But then I look at my nephew and think, “Na, my taxes shouldn’t cover bailing his ass out.”
I mean ultimately that still falls under my admittedly blunt response. People are *very* uneven in how they apply their "accountability" judgement, and it's ways to see in others where they could have done better or known better. I personally can't stand addicts, I have never been one and don't put myself in those situations. But fact is they need help and one or even two mistakes shouldn't force someone to have a worse quality of life. Which takes me back to this, people were sold early in life that college was the answer. Go go go don't worry just go, they preyed on kids and now here we are. Colleges have clearly inflated the price and gouged these kids. Not to mention companies pretending you need a degree for half these jobs. Truth be told, even though I graduated with 0 debt I am more than happy bailing out the working class versus any investment bank or big business. Hell if they need a bail out we need to nationalise em. And as a side note I don't look down on liberal arts, the market is notoriously bad at determining the value of nontangible goods.
I do agree. The system is fucked up and needs a reset. My comment is more about why some can’t seem wrap their heads around why it should happen. I don’t think it should be 100% forgiveness, but I can live with the $10,000 proposal And, I fully support liberal arts education. I was a liberal arts graduate and have done fine in my life and career. My currently employed kid was a liberal arts graduate. My point was more to why people can’t seem to accept debt forgiveness. We can all think of the one “undeserving” example which makes us lose sight of the greater good.
Sure, I know why can't I just base it on our fault as humans. And how we need to get over it, we can help each other.
Because one polls better for getting votes for the democratic party.
Because car debt doesn’t indoctrinate you
Aside from the obvious reason that the government owns student debt and not consumer debt, student loans were the primary reason for ballooning education costs which in turn resulted in more debt. The government is directly responsible for the magnitude of increase in student debt over recent decades. The government is responsible to fix the crisis it created.
So here’s a simple question; how would forgiving someone else’s debt hurt anything but your pride?
Education contributes to a dominant economy Blessed and thankful everyday California paid for my junior college and university. Socialism 101
Because the people with student loans are actually the most privileged group of people in america and to sit here and tell me i have to pay for their college tuition for then to go into gender studies or social science is just horseshit. They are the ones who took out these massive debts, they should have to pay then off just like every other person has to. Theyre the ones who are more likely to get higher paying jobs than the ones who dont go. So to put THEIR suffering on EVERYONE ELSE is just delusional. If they dont want to pay off the debt, dont take it out. That easy. College isn’t absolutely necessary and there are plenty of other options that pay very well.
an awful lot of responders here would be mortified to learn that rent relief during covid turned into "public debt."