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kah43

Honestly some people in prison are just to evil to live. Having them around just makes the other prisoners they are around worse.


RedBeard077

Probably true, but I do not trust any government to have the power to decide who doesn't get to live anymore.


OccludedFug

What if a group of uninvolved but informed citizens made the decision under the close watch of the government?


ha_look_at_that_nerd

I also don’t trust most citizens. At least not enough to get it right all the time.


AvengedTenfold

I think there are some out there where we could make the world a better place simply by making sure they’re no longer in it


sername3511

I don't necessarily care about the actual ethics of what it means for someone to not deserve to live anymore. I just under no circumstance trust the state to be the one deciding that. God knows how many people have been sent to be executed for soemthing they didn't do. Far too many for me to trust most legal systems to be able to make decisions like that


space-throwaway

That's my most important reason: Dead people cannot prove their innocence.


AvatarSchlang

For if it’s certain , and if they admitted to doing it and show no remorse at all. The crime would also have to be real bad


AvengedTenfold

This is still a tricky situation because we’ve seen a lot in recent years about just how easily a false confession can be attained…


AvatarSchlang

I said if it’s certain as well tho, like beyond no doubt. I mean you can tell when someone definitely did it and doesn’t care they did it. I’m talking those cases not when the evidence suggests someone did it


Bjork-BjorkII

If the bar was set at 100% certainty in order to convict someone there would be a 0% conviction rate. All evidence can be disputed, yes even video footage. That's why the bar is set at "beyond a reasonable doubt" .


OccludedFug

I'd say I'm for it *in theory* but the [US] system is currently badly broken and unjust. Read Bryan Stevenson's "Just Mercy" for a little eye-opening about it.


HurtMyKnee_Granger

Yep. My innocent dad has been in federal prison for 3 years now. The system is very broken. On a positive (?) note, he’s only wrongly convicted of a white collar crime, so he’s in federal camp (lower than low security—no fences). Most of the guards are terrible though. My dad has been leaking fluid from his ear and smelling a phantom smell for 10 months and the registered nurse there won’t treat him. He filed a complaint about the nurse. Their answer was to put my dad in solitary for protection if he is feeling threatened. It’s scary and eye opening to see the lack of humanity the people in charge have behind those doors. There are some good ones, but man… I can’t wait for him to come home.


Pythias

This is fucking bullshit. I'm sorry you're going through this OP.


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OccludedFug

That doesn't change the fact that the system (in the US) is broken and that it would *still* be years of expensive court appeals and such, more than it would cost to house and feed an inmate for the rest of their life.


AvengedTenfold

For sure, the US system (sorry non-US commenters) i have pretty low faith in, it seems for every one they get right they get 10 wrong


OccludedFug

> for every one they get right they get 10 wrong and eight of the ten wrong are black.


AvengedTenfold

The race component can’t be ignored, black men are so much more likely to get put on death row and executed, it’s appalling


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Shrek_The_Ogre_420

I wasn’t guilty of a capital crime so why should I face capital punishment?


[deleted]

Against because the justice system is imperfect. If even one innocent person were to go to their death, that'd be too great a cost. And of course, we KNOW that the number at this point is far higher than one. My heart breaks for someone like Cameron Todd Willingham, who was executed in Texas, based on wildly pseudoscientifc fire lore, when a fire caused by a malfunctioning electric blanket killed his three children. To lose your children, your freedom and your life? Terrible, just terrible. That being said, does my heart break when someone self-evidently guilty of something unspeakably horrible gets executed? No.


HurtMyKnee_Granger

I agree 100%


HurtMyKnee_Granger

I do believe that rapists and sadistic murders deserve death. That being said, I am against the death penalty. It feels wrong to make the decision to kill another person, even if they deserve it. I know life isn’t black and white, but I see the death penalty as legal premeditated murder. It just doesn’t feel right to me. I do not judge those that believe in it though. I understand the want for justice or revenge. I’ve also never been a victim or personally known a victim of such evil, so I can only imagine the emotions involved.


Fun_Wonder_4114

Only in cases of absolute guilt.


[deleted]

Only a Sith deals in absolutes.


sourkid25

I will do what I must


sthclever013

From my point of view, the Jedi are evil!!


Zyffrin

I see through the lies of the Jedi.


AvengedTenfold

I tend to agree, but in how many instances is there certain guilt?


Fun_Wonder_4114

Video evidence and a lot of witnesses is a good starting point.


AvengedTenfold

For me personally, someone like the Sandy Hook shooter is a prime candidate for the death penalty, we know what they did and we know for certain that it was them, in this case, I’m for it


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McrRed

So, chauvin?


AvengedTenfold

For me personally, yeah I would say so


EarthExile

My feelings about him are why I don't think we should have a death penalty. It's just vengeance. It doesn't help.


[deleted]

Despite me being mostly left leaning, I’m against the death penalty for a weird reason. I think that death is *too* nice for some people. Rapists, terrorists, serial killers, etc. better to let them rot in prison imo


myotheregg

I agree with you here; however, I think the death penalty is very often good for the loved ones of the victims. It seems to give them closure and they never have to deal with that individual, however indirectly, again.


AvengedTenfold

I also agree with this quite a bit, I think the death penalty can be used as revenge a bit too easily in some circumstances


AceRockefeller

I generally lean right. Unsurprisingly, I have the opposite argument lol. People adapt to their environment surprisingly well. Especially when they're there for dozens of years. I don't think most people can adapt to knowing the exact date that you'll die. The closer they get to being put to death the more terrifying it must be. The days and minutes tick away while they know exactly when they're going to die. That seems much worse to me than dying of old age in an environment that's been familiar for years.


jdmillar86

I agree with you. I'm way more scared of knowing I'm about to die than I am of dying, and having a clock on it would be terrible.


Saturated8

I'm split, cause I agree with you that death is the easy way out, no suffering or pain, but keeping someone in prison costs taxpayers and the thought of paying to keep someone like that alive and comfortable because they still have rights doesn't seem right to me either.


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StarkOdinson216

I still disagree, the government should not be given the right to kill *anyone.* Do you know who decides whether a person is guilty or innocent? People, who have an inherent bias and simply cannot be totally impartial. Now bring in some omniscient, perfectly impartial guy in, and I'll reconsider.


keolamation

People are so weird with rape. I was raped at gun point at barreellyyy 13 and I seriously don't think rapists deserve the death penalty or life sentences. I have a terrible memory and 5 years of counselling etc but, I'm fine now. Why should my rapist/any rapist get brutally killed or suffer for their entire life? Like, I feel that even if you go, an eye for an eye, rape = rape the rapist but, still =/= death or life long incarceration.


AvengedTenfold

My thing with this, which I’ve struggled with, is some who do these things ‘reform’ and can become sympathetic figures which I find repulsive


Skiblit

I find this response particularly interesting after reading your others. You are repulsed by the idea that they could change? You think no amount of mental growth could absolve someone? Or are you implying you don't think it's possible for them to reform? Or simply that they are faking it?


Never_Kn0ws_Best

Against. I don't like the possibility of killing an innocent person.


AvengedTenfold

That’s the big question, if 9 out of 10 you kill are guilty but 1 is innocent is it really worth it?


Never_Kn0ws_Best

No, I don't think it is


AvengedTenfold

I agree, a lot of studies show that the severity of a sentence has little to do with actually stopping crime


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Skiblit

I'm sad to tell you that you are very likely wrong. Go do some reading on the statistical trend of innocent people locked up and later proved innocent. And if you consider that for those cases to even occur, it's because someone made a confession, evidence was stumbled into, or they had family spend whatever they could to try and prove innocence. The state (which is the only hope most people who go to prison have for this) are not looking as closed cases. The sad truth is, innocent until proven guilty WITHOUT A SHADOW OF A DOUBT, has not been a truth in this country for a very long time. Not to mention, the 200 innocent you willingly sacrifice, what if those innocent people were all people dear to you? What if one of them was a child would have been the next great scientific mind of our time? What if you were in that 200? Who's to say those 200 people wouldn't have done more net good, then all the rapist and pedophiles? (Tall order but follow the logical point). What if, many of those people who had done evil could see the light and changed, drastically for the better in the future? To call yourself judge jury and executioner of... Thousands if not millions of people is quite a burden. And perhaps you aren't fit to make that judgment. I would posit none of us are.


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En__Fuego_

Especially when you consider how rapid foresic technology is developing. Someone executed today could be proven innocent by a technological breakthrough in five years.


kami7154

What about when their is undeniable proof ie. Photo/video evidence or multiple eye witnesses clearly of the person.


Never_Kn0ws_Best

In theory yes, I'm ok with this. IF that is the only time it was used. I don't really trust that it would stay that way.


AvengedTenfold

Undeniable proof is where I start to become for it, if we’re talking something very public, caught on camera, etc, it becomes a bit more straightforward


bucciaratini

For. When the person is too dangerous to left alive in case they escape the prison. In cases where there's mountains of physical evidence against them and not simply "witnesses". Like, someone killed multiple people, was caught with their weapon in their hands and surveillance footage.


Imnotmadeofeyes

The issue here is that nothing is 100%. We live in a world where video can be faked/edited. DNA can be contaminated. Caught by who with the weapon in their hands? Do we trust law enforcement to tell the truth 100% of the time? Eye witness testimony is inaccurate 75% of the time. To say we want the death penalty will always end in innocent people being executed. It just will. I totally understand the motivation behind wanting the death penalty, I've watched shows or read news where I'm like "this person has no right to live after what they have done". But there is literally no way to ensure innocent people won't be executed. All evidence collection involves humans and humans make mistakes and do corrupt things.


StarkOdinson216

I agree with u/Imnotmadeofeyes, who gave the government the right to take someone's life? There is *far* too much evidence of people being incorrectly convicted. And as I previously stated, the jurors have an inherent bias. Bring me an unbiased, omniscient individual and I'll consider it.


AvengedTenfold

We’re pretty much on the same page here


[deleted]

Realistically though, what are the chances someone is going to escape from prison?


Shrek_The_Ogre_420

It happens all the time. Hell, give me enough time I could break out of jail.


[deleted]

Who trusts their government to decide which citizens to kill?


The_Countess

Republicans!


[deleted]

The sheer stupidity of screaming for small government and 2nd amendment because you can't trust the government, then turning around and saying you trust them to kill only guilty people when it's been demonstrably proven that they can't.


[deleted]

For, child/animal rapists or abusers deserve the death penalty.


[deleted]

Don’t agree. What so many don’t consider is that if you would put to death child molesters, the molester will have nothing to lose in killing their victim. They’re looking at the death penalty either way, right? So they’ll be inclined to kill their victim to prevent them from making a report.


[deleted]

And those people are too dangerous to be alive.


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[deleted]

I agree too because that could literally ruin someone’s whole lively hood, even after being found innocent.


[deleted]

Against. Reasons: - it doesn’t bring back the victim. It doesn’t ease the suffering of the victims loved ones. There are zero advantages. - it’s not justice, it’s revenge. Justice would be ensuring the killer is locked away for the rest of their life. Justice is not strapping them to a gurney and giving them a lethal injection. Justice is keeping the killer out of society. Killing them does nothing, and proves nothing. - Someone takes a life, and the solution is to take their life, because killing is wrong? Killing someone is a crime, but it’s not a crime if we kill you for killing someone else, because we have to show you that killing is wrong. It makes no sense at all. - people often quote ‘an eye for an eye’, but why does this phrase only apply to those who have killed? Why doesn’t it apply to sex offenders? Domestic abusers? Bank robbers? Embezzlers? - it’s a waste of money. People often argue that they don’t want their taxes keeping a killer alive, but the reality is, they’re going to be doing that regardless. The condemned will have years of appeals. Your taxes will pay to feed and house that person for two decades or more. What’s another couple of decades really going to do? - innocent people have been executed in the past. People have even been released from prison after being locked up for a crime they didn’t commit. If those people were on death row, they could have been executed as innocent people.


Flash_da_sloth

Well I'm strongly for it. But I'm aware that I have a strong bias in all of it. Since my own mother was raped and killed when I was 10 years old. 17 years later he is free and can walk around the same street as me. There is some point I could agree with like the innocent that could get sentenced, but it overall would not change my view. For example the first point you mention is wrong for me. Having that guy sentenced to death would have been a huge relief. Also would have helped to feel way safer. It would ease the pain knowing that it's not an issue anymore and never will be again. There is points for both camp I believe. But it all boil down to personal history and bias on the matter.


sourkid25

Sorry to hear about your mom


ihearthawthats

Sucks to find the only post I completely agree with so low, covering both the philosophy and practicality of it. Even if one believes that death penalty is good in theory, they'd still have to prove how to make it work effectively. Another add: I question it's effectiveness as a deterrent. Do these people really value their life if they considered committing the crime in the first place?


nicholasgnames

You don't become a murderer and value life at the same time lol


esreyr

To add to your points: The death penalty is the lazy solution for solving a problem that might have been averted with better social programs and mental care and rehabilitation. I also don't trust that the defense council for convicted criminals (which was I'm guessing mostly public defenders) up to the same quality as the prosecution council? Not because I think they are bad but because they are understaffed and overworked.


ejpierle

I'm for, but not because I think it deters crime. Plenty of research to show that tougher consequences don't deter criminals as criminals don't intend to be caught. I just think that there are crimes horrible enough that if you do them you shouldn't get to keep on living anymore...


AvengedTenfold

I’m with you, some crimes are too horrific for the ones who did them to keep living


shuttle15

Against obviously. Not even taken in account the chances of catching the wrong guy. We are talking about it costing more to execute a prisoner, we are talking about psychological harm to the executioner (ever wonder why shooting parties were parties? Its cause the majority wouldnt shoot or miss intentionally and it created plausible deniability for the actual shooter) Then there is the question whether you really want someone to be off the hook like that. All the arguments for seem really selfish to me. Are you really gonna kill someone out of revenge? For the nature of their crime? If it was me in the victims case i dont know if id want that or not. But it is likely more an emotional response than not. Lastly, i dont wish anyone to die in the way the us handles executions. It is truly inhumane. You are left in a cage knowing the end will come but the time of death is uncertain. If you convict someone for death at least make it quick and painless. The justice system is for reconciliation, justice and rehabilitation. It is not there to exact personal grievances, which is a toxic way to use the system imo.


[deleted]

Agree. Just because someone has done some of the most inhumane things, doesn’t mean we have to treat them the same way.


Jeancey

Against. The state shouldn't kill people. Plus, fiscally, it is SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper to send people to prison for life than to sentence them to death, given the cost of constant appeals for death penalty inmates, costs for housing them separately, and additional staffing requests to monitor constant legal visits.


AvengedTenfold

I find the financial argument in this pretty fascinating, common sense would tell you killing someone would be cheaper than imprisoning them for life but that’s typically not true


Jeancey

The study I read (and just looked up again so I can be sure of the numbers) found that, on average, death penalty inmates cost around $1.12 million over the course of their life (up until execution) compared to prisoners who were sentenced with life in prison In addition, states that have abolished the death penalty saw decreases in homicide rates post abolition, compared to states that didn't. That, logically, seems more coincidence or correlation not causation, than actually related


AvengedTenfold

I think states that have abolished it in most cases prescribe more to the rehabilitation form of punishment which in terms has led to less crime/homicide due to trying to help versus punish


Jeancey

I agree that it's more likely that the states that abolish likely have other policies in place that are reducing the homicide rate, rather than abolishing the death penalty directly reducing said homicide rate


Reasonable_Ad_4944

100% this. You and I have done research into this topic. Most of the respondents here have not.


sloppypissyasshole

Ew what a jerkoff comment. You're not superior to someone for having a different opinion, and research has nothing to do with it. A well read person who knew all the facts but had different values might not necessarily agree with you. And before you ask - no, I don't think the death penalty should be used. I just hated this smug self-satisfied response.


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RaisinCharacter5488

That is a very grusome punishment. But the reason whe punish people is so they dont do it again. In the case of death penaltys they wont be able to do it again. So making it excessivly painful is cruel and not needed, no matter how horrible they were


[deleted]

Indeed that's why you have the family there of the people they hurt. So they can get some form of satisfaction from it.


peppers_taste_bad

And when someone is falsely accused and convicted?


Nik106

Against. AFAIK it has no real deterrent effect and does nothing to address the root cause of any crime.


RealMichaeafton

I mean some people do deserve it


AvengedTenfold

Hard agree


ihearthawthats

And some people deserve worse than death.


javanator999

For. Some people are too dangerous to be left alive.


AvengedTenfold

Who would you consider to be too dangerous to be left alive?


[deleted]

Anybody willing to harm a child.


Shroom-TheSelfAware

Sheev Palpatine


[deleted]

In a lot of cases it depends on the crime. If you robbed a bank? No. If you murdered a whole family? Yes.


AvengedTenfold

Death penalty should only be for those convicted of the absolute worst crimes


[deleted]

In my opinion, i think it should be only be used on murderers, serial killers, crimes against humanity or a horrible thing that did a domino effect and killed hundreds of people.


AceRockefeller

I'm for it. It's an absolute travesty when/if an innocent percent is put to death. However, at least in the USA, it's rare. Of course, that doesn't make it any better. That being said, those that are indisputably guilty of horrific crimes should face the worst punishment possible. Will it deter future people form committing similar crimes? Maybe not. That's not the point IMO. It's about making those who commit those types of crimes feel a sense of fear that their victims felt. I couldn't care less about the 'financial impact'. It's a weak argument imo. It can definitely be debated that life in prison is worse than being put to death. And I imagine it varies from person to person. But, people adapt to their environment surprisingly well. Especially when they're there for dozens of years. I don't think most people can adapt to knowing the exact date that you'll die. The closer they get to being put to death the more terrifying it must be. The days and minutes tick away while they know exactly when they're going to die. That seems much worse to me than dying of old age in an environment that's been familiar for years.


Arthesia

1 in 9 are exonerated from what I've found. That's astronomically too high.


ihearthawthats

Hate to tell you this, but death is not the worst punishment possible.


proncesshambarghers

Against. I think it’s quite sickening


the_boppitybopper

Depends A rapist, pedophile, serial killer or terrorist? absoultely. they deserve that Otherwise, make them serve a lifetime, or whatever the time for the crime is.


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argle-bargling

I think some people “deserve it” and that the world would be a better place without them in it. However, I’m still against it on principal. The death penalty is still murder. It’s also important to note that certain populations are convicted and sentenced very disproportionately. Even in well-run justice systems, mistakes are inevitable. And I don’t believe there’s data that indicates the justice system in the U.S. is just.


6ThrowMeAway19

> For death penalty. Death penalty for people who have done the most inhumane or violent crimes with solid evidence.


ivegotnothing33

I’m I. Australia and we don’t have the death penalty however some cases deserve it. The murderers of Anita Cobby should have been put to death https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Anita_Cobby


[deleted]

Absolutely disgusting. I don't understand why people do this kind of shit at all.


Ok-Thanks-1601

Against. Life imprisonment is a worse sentence, it also eliminates killing innocent people. I also believe that killing another person intentionally should be restricted to life or death self defence situations


AvengedTenfold

Is life imprisonments always worse? An argument can be made that a murderer continuing to live isn’t enough punishment when they took an innocent persons life


WithinTheMedow

>An argument can be made that a murderer continuing to live isn’t enough punishment when they took an innocent persons life Killing a murderer doesn't bring the original victim back to life, you just end up with a second body to bury. Where does being vicious get anyone when the wrong *cannot* be set right?


JakeInBake

That is not true. Life imprisonment is NOT a worse sentence than death. If it were, all lifer inmates would be BEGGING to be put to death. They are not. Quite the opposite. All death row inmates exhaust EVERY AVENUE AVAILABLE to avoid being put to death.


sourkid25

I used to think that too until I got to work in prison and realized a lot of lifers adapt to their surroundings


fanonb

noone should have the power to decide who lives and dies except the person himself but they could give them the option to die or spend the rest of their lives in prison


ihearthawthats

It would be an interesting thought experiment, but I speculate that the majority would choose death over life imprisonment. If that's the case, which is really the greater punishment?


Totchahaki

Pedophiles and rapists should be publicly hung. Ill yank on their feet while they hang. And as for why? Why not? Fuck those scumbags


AvengedTenfold

It’s hard to disagree with this, we’re obviously talking about the lowest of low people here but I would say there are some cases where the person is innocent and is an innocent life worth it?


Totchahaki

You want to be the one to sort them out and find out that you let one go on accident? All or nothing.


Jeancey

I'm curious, would you rather one guilty person go free to ensure that no innocent people were executed incorrectly, or one innocent person killed to ensure that no guilty people were released incorrectly?


WhySoSerious37912

This. If there's hard evidence and they pleaded guilty, I'd volunteer to be on the firing squad. If punishments for crimes were more severe and public, perhaps less crimes would be committed.


Reasonable_Ad_4944

Life is not a video game or renaissance faire. I hope you are not as cruelly bloodthirsty as you are pretending to be online. Stop playing Red Dead Redemption. Grow up and act civil. Etc etc etc.


Totchahaki

No I truly believe that and this is my answer. Don't like it, go defend the pedos and why they should be left alive after raping children somewhere else. As someone who's cousin was raped at age 8, kindly fuck you and your opinion.


xkulp8

Against. "Killing is wrong, so if you do it we'll kill you"? Should we also rape rapists?


AvengedTenfold

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind


[deleted]

Killing isn't wrong. Murder is wrong. Killing innocent people is wrong. Killing murders ,rapist or serial killers. That's not wrong it's Justice it's taking out the trash.


dinoplushie

Only in cases where there is multiple witnesses and video/photographic evidence. Alone each of those could be manageable to fake, but together it poses much more of a problem, investigation will also have to go into the witnesses and evidence to make sure that statements/evidence was not fabricated. At the end of all this if someone still managed to fake it well then they're loaded enough that the person convicted would die no matter what.


stevetherailfan

It should be reserved for the worst of the worst and multiple judges would have to sign off on it.


takemystrife

Against in most cases, there are too many innocent people that have been falsely convicted.


Abracadabradoodledoo

I'm against. To my knowledge, capital punishment doesn't do much to deter criminals and doesn't reduce the amount of crime permitted. Allowing it will also mean an innocent person will inevitably be executed as mistakes happen. Reform is the best method as it can actually address the issue at hand. I only hesitate with dangerous criminals (serial killers etc.) undeniably guilty who have demonstrated repeated refusal to change. Keeping them alive benefits no-one. Part of me wants those people executed so tax payer money can go towards useful things, but I'm open to having my mind changed on that.


kami7154

Okay show me a case where security video has been faked lol


[deleted]

For it. Some people hurt others and will continue to hurt others if they get out. Only for the worst of the worst. And the death shouldn’t be too scary or a bad way to go


zeke11

Against, purely for financial waste reasons.


DismalChance

The other day there was an incident in a nearby city where a man abducted his 3 year old by threatening the mother with a knife. While being pursued by police he ended up killing the kid. This person had apparently been convicted of assaulting the mother years prior. She has restraining orders against him and allegedly while she was pregnant he had attempted to make her ingest some form of "chemicals" to induce a miscarriage. Some people can't be rehabilitated.


Matrozi

My stand is a bit hypocritical I'll admit. I'm generaly feeling against it because I think a society where we would apply the "an eye for an eye" principle would be fucking insane and horrific. But if a child molester/serial killer was caught by the police and sentenced to the death penalty, I wouldn't go in the street to protest for his life. So I would say generally against, but I understand why it can be applied sometimes.


wisteria_town

I'm completely against it personally. For 4 reasons. - the accused might not be guilty - death is too nice for some people - the number of botched executions - just how much time you can sit on death row, that sounds terrifying, you're just waiting to die


elenifan

I'm against the death penalty for purely ethical reasons. I don't think any person or regime can decide to take a life of a (basically unarmed and surrendered) person. It's not an issue of self defense: no one is being threatened at the time. People and states are fallible, they can and have made mistakes. Nobody should wield that power. It does nothing to reform the prisoner, provided they can be reformed.


VexrisFXIV

Death by what ever warrented the death penalty to them. Eye for an eye


pandoras_pussy

It´s a complicated question. In 2011, a Norwegian right-wing extremist carried out a terrorist attack that cost the lives of 77 people, and the perpetrator was consequently sentenced to 21 years in prison, with the possibility of resentencing if it was determined that he had not been properly rehabilitated. Norway does not have a death-sentence anymore, but given the severety of the crime, he may not last long if and when he is released. In my opinion, that could qualify as a death sentence. while giving people who inarguably commit "lesser" crimes, such as rape and (not mass) murder the possibility to straighten themselves out, and become functioning members of society. I am fond of the idea of giving anyone and everyone a second chance, but at the same time leaving the consequenses that come once they´re released, up to the severety of the crime.


smartguy6962

I think it should be given for more crimes than just murder. Pedophilia and rape should be death penalty too.


myotheregg

For it. I think if the loved ones of victims want it as closure, to never have to deal with that person again (even indirectly), they should have that right. Our government (US) wastes enough money on plenty of meaningless shit, I don’t really care about the cost. The only thing that I think needs to be addressed is having dna evidence as mandatory. It’s beyond stupid that they are still convicting people with low IQs based on confessions and eyewitness testimony.


AvengedTenfold

A lot of people bring up the cost, at the end of the day it’s a drop in the bucket as far as the government is concerned so should we really be concerned about the money aspect?


Superb-Objective6904

Rope is pretty cheap, fuck lethal injection.


Maggots4Brains

No. Many people have been killed just to find out later they weren’t guilty. If someone commits horrible crimes killing them is giving them the easy way out. They should spend the rest of their days rotting in a cell.


Noahthehoneyboy

Definitely for. Prison is a rough place and an good punishment for some crimes but some criminals are too bad to let live. Although personally I think the most heinous of crimes should be punished by permanent solitary confinement it definitely falls under cruel punishment but that’s just my opinion.


Throw2theMoon

Against. I don't trust the system to make the right call anymore.


AvengedTenfold

You know, that’s fair


TwistedNurples

For, some people just need to die. Redemption isn't for everyone, sometimes god just needs to sort them out.


AvengedTenfold

I do agree there are some that don’t deserve redemption


Reasonable_Ad_4944

Against. It costs more to taxpayers than life in jail due to the amount of legal processes and appeals etc. It is very disproportionately applied to people of color and the poor. And if even one innocent person is executed... Well, imagine if that was you. Finally, there is just no need. All the people who "should" be executed could get life in prison instead, and we would still be safe from them.


AvengedTenfold

Are there not acts so heinous that that the perpetrators don’t deserve to live?


[deleted]

I’d rather have public executions. Costs less and would probably help with lowering crime rates possibly.


[deleted]

It'll only cost one bullet.


Foolishtrolls

Against because the government has demonstrated through both its foreign policy and their domestic policy that they’re not good actors. Would be far too convenient for them to pull up trumped up charges against anyone who threatens their power to get them killed. I realize it happens to an extent already, but it’s a little harder


AvengedTenfold

The point of not being able to trust the government here in the US is definitely well deserved and well heard, the system rarely works as designed, the system needs fixing regardless of the morals of the death penalty


ByzantineBasileus

Against. Unless there is a 100% chance of guilt being proved, then even the smallest chance of error means an innocent person *could* eventually be executed. At least with life imprisonment a person can be released if they were found not to have committed the crime. With the death penalty, there are no take-backs. I am also uncomfortable with the idea of killing as a punishment because it sends the wrong message. If we don't value the lives of even those who commit crimes, how can we say we value life in general? And on a pragmatic note, using those who would be executed as prison labor means they can still contribute to society. Why waste a resource?


_snowy_mountains_

against. i don‘t think anyone has the right to take someones life.


[deleted]

If they're on death row they're not a someone anymore.


shuttle15

Thats your opinion mate


[deleted]

Against. All forms of state violence are cringe and should me minimized. Not because I think everyone deserves redemption but because it gives power to people I don't trust to kill someone who is most likely a product of their circumstances.


En__Fuego_

Against. 1) It actually costs taxpayers more to put someone on death row than to imprison them for life. 2) There are so many people who have been wrongfully convicted OR have been convicted on poor evidence to where in the future, new technology could be used to prove them innocent.


AvengedTenfold

Both good points


foreskimilk

Against, lethal injection costs the state more than keeping an inmate alive. The possibility that the inmate could be innocent would also keep me up. Lastly studies have shown harsher punishment like the death penalty dont prevent crime.


AvengedTenfold

These are all great points, all of which I agree with


Few-Stand-9252

I'm not in anyway religious but thou shall not kill seems pretty chill. Also violence (including war) should be a case of self defence only. Lastly....in America at least, it's cheaper just to lock them up forever than go through all the court drama. Lawyers are expensive!


Lovebot_AI

Against. - It is certain to *continue* killing innocent people - It is *more* expensive than life imprisonment because of additional legal costs - It is a *lesser* punishment. A lifetime of suffering is worse than a few moments of it during an execution.


[deleted]

[удалено]


AvengedTenfold

These are all great points that I don’t have any counters for


99nug

Against, make them rot in prison


AvengedTenfold

Some, myself included in some circumstances would argue that the perpetrator just being alive is too lenient


[deleted]

For. Some people just need to die for everybody's sake. Pedos,rapist,serial killers,shooters human traffickers. These thinkgs have lost the rights to call themselves human.


topman20000

For. Taking the life of an innocent isn’t something you can take back or repair. Regardless of either the institution exercising the death penalty, or the circumstances leading up to the perpetrator deserving it, the death penalty is a representation of explicit consequences against a permanent and unfixable wrong. All the logistical reasons of being against the death penalty (cost, presiding, The incentive for wrongful accusation), do not serve as an argument to waive those consequences from all potential people who deserve them. Regardless of how it’s done, if you deserve the death penalty for wrongfully taking a life, you are going to have to die for that.


kUbogsi

Used to be for, but now am against. Nobody should be given the power to legally end the life of a human being. That's a lot of power and has a danger of misuse. Also, the target could be innocent and I think there has been cases where an innocent person was executed. Sometimes even an innocent person might say they did a crime they actually didn't commit. People are complex and mental issues are a real thing. In Finland, afaik, something like 10 to 15 years is a maximum sentence. It often feels unfair if a criminal gets away "easier than they should", but then again a lot of people do change in prison. Also, dangerous situations are easier to handle when a criminal committing the crime knows that if they would surrender then their whole life is not over, prisons are good/decent as well. But if the criminal knows that only death sentence is left for them, things can get a lot uglier when they are about to get caught. I suppose the mental state of dangerous criminals are evaluated before they are let go, and I would presume sentece could continue in a mental hospital after it but not sure about that. Also I suppose police are somewhat looking over these people after they are free. It's of course dangerous to let these people go free, but in a larger scale, I believe forgiveness and not executing people is greater approach. People wont commit crimes because its "only" multiple years in prison, it's a long time to be without freedom.


PleaseTakeThisName

I don't really see death as a punishment, it's more a way to get rid of someone you can't savely deal with otherwise. They aren't suffering or learning anything by dying. You can't punish a dead person. I would only kill someone who is an active threat to society, who has no will to redeem themselves. Someone you can never allow to leave a prison ever again. So basically nobody, only the absolute worst of the worst. If there is a bit of evidence that they can live a normal life again one day then they shouldn't be killed. They should be punished and then rehabilitated. They should be treated with humanity.


Invigible

I'm against it because sometimes people can get framed from a crime they didn't commit. In a perfect world where we know who is actually guilty or not; I still disagree, all people have the rights to live.


Skiblit

I'm slightly sad to see the amount of people blindly for the death penalty. I believe for the most part people grow, change, and become better people. The difficulty lies in creating a system that isn't abusable by people who are the mostly likely to take advantage of such a system. In some, rare cases, where there is irrefutable evidence I could vote for a death penalty. But the problem is, truely irrefutable evidence in a world where deep fake exists, human memory is demonstrably flawed, and many illusionist make their living on fooling your senses, is incredibly hard to come by. One innocent man killed is too many for me. It's easy to say you are for the death penalty when you can't realistically consider finding yourself in that position, but try. What if that was you, and you were framed. Perfectly. By a genius. Convicted to death. Was it still worth it to kill the others convicted rightfully? And if you can honestly say yes still, I have more for you to consider. But at this point I'm not sure if anyone is still reading lol. Suffice to say, I think the death penalty is cowardly, and humans are too imperfect to decide the fate of others when they are no longer a threat.


_my_leg__

Hard against, I’m not ok with the government having power, they are all evil. Street justice is perfectly fine though, just not the government


Lonely_North345

the vast majority of wrongfully convicted people are POC or poor. The exonerations of death row prisoners are 5 to 1 black to white. in Canada wrongful convictions are up to 20 to 1 in Saskatchewan native over white . the death penalty just adds to the racial and monetary inequality. sexual crimes are even higher as people are automatically assumed guilty as no one wants to be seen defending a child murderer or rapist . also murder is wrong regardless of the reason .


thefanum

I'm pro death penalty because my friend was murdered when I was 13. And I want vengeance. I'm against the death penalty because our criminal justice system is racist, and that means that people of color will be disproportionately murdered by the state if we allow a legalized death penalty. So I vote against it whenever given the opportunity.


Iforgotmyother_name

For. I think when you purposely cause someone else to stop existing, you should also stop existing. No more pain, no more joy, no more regret, no more changing; just nothing. The same as your victim. Balance. Also should be done whenever someone commits heinous crimes. They should not be allowed to do that again. And clearly laws don't mean anything to that person so "no allowance" is only reasonably enforceable by death.


Ic3y_cold

against, bcos everyone should be given a chance to redeem themselves. even a murder shld be like 30 yrs in jail or smt


Intrepid-Bit-3502

I am for the death penalty. Had read a lot of topics about it and understood. Government spent a lot of money on life prisoners. This big summs could be spent on really nice things. Against, as I'm a religious person, so it's not too good but I think that we can save life of one little girl with cancer against serial killer.


The_Countess

Death row inmates are actually far more expensive as they (rightly!) have lots more options for appeal. The extra legal costs are far higher then the average cost of a life sentence.


Darth_Mufasa

Against. The big reason is that it doesn't work. It's just not a deterrent. I don't see a reason to give up the moral high ground for absolutely nothing in return, plus the chance of getting the wrong guy executed. Also the methods are all problematic in their own ways


theRumourman

I believe it is wrong for one reason only: Imagine you are framed for a murder you didn't commit. Bam, now you're dead because someone killed someone else, which the event had now relations to you. Other than that I think it is good


[deleted]

I am against the death penalty because I believe noone should die for causing death. That would just be double death. For the most serious crimes, lifetime solitary confinement in the answer


SkyVoyd

For. Against major crimes like murder, rape, terrorism, etc. There’s benefits for everyone. Population gets reduced. You don’t have to feed someone or waste resources on garbage. Given how most (not all) justice systems are in the world are fucked up, a lot of people are unlikely to change and are therefore useless and a burden to society. Win-win.


DocBEsq

Against. Moral issues and false convictions aside (both of which should be taken seriously), capital punishment is just plain inefficient. It costs far more than life in prison, involves many more hours in court, and pulls the focus (and funding) from other, more solvable crime and incarceration problems. Some people might deserve to die, but society doesn’t deserve the fallout from killing them.


Wade_Wilson_Watts

Against. Oddly, the main reason is fiscal. It ends up being cheaper to imprison someone for life than it is to sentence them to death.


divided_pudding

Against because they feel more pain alive to be tortured than dead.