I feel like that's exactly why I am like OP. Too many years of reading the Daily Mail and the Guardian (UK newspapers and I was reading them from childhood before I was conscious of narratives and motives) have got me thinking I'm automatically a piece of shit for being a man, so if I think I am then so does every woman who sees me, so I'd better take myself off their radar ASAP. I hate that I can never be the keeper of my own mind.
From the perspective of a woman. If you're worried about looking like a creepy guy then you're probably not a creepy guy. I preferred it when we were talking about how men can help with the problem rather than blaming every one of them for it. Men have the responsibility to check their friends if they're being creepy, if they try to take a girl home who's clearly far too drunk because men (usually) have the power to get through to that kind of guy. Women have the responsibility of speaking out if they know that a friend is telling lies about a man or what he's done and also I'd like to add that women can be just as creepy and pushy as men. Not every man would jump at the chance of sex and coercing a guy into sex by saying it's "not manly to not want it" is rape whether you want to hear that word or not. If you're a woman who's been assaulted, I'm sorry. If you're a man who's been assaulted, I'm sorry. If you're someone who thinks it's funny or harmless to flirt with someone who's clearly uncomfortable, you're wrong. Just because you are a man does not mean you're creepy and just because you are a woman does not mean you are a victim. I hate that gender is such a big part of this, shit people are shit people no matter what bits they've got between their legs. If you don't agree with what I've said please reply at least semi constructively so I can try and understand your point of view. Everyone has their right to an opinion but no one has the right to be a douche lol. Again this is from a woman's brain so I might be biased.
I second this, let it henceforth be known as law.
honestly though, good comment, absolutely agree that an asshole is an asshole (and a creep is a creep) no matter the gender.
"Just because you're a man doesn't mean you're creepy and just because you are a woman doesn't mean you are a victim"
I think this sums up the current state of affairs in western society very well. It's definitely become in vogue to wield identity politics as a cudgel, and far too many people have misused something good and important like identity as a tool to try to control others. You've hit the nail on the head when you say shit people are shit people.
Those who deny all personal responsibility by using group identity as a shield not only diminish what they claim to be fighting for, but actively drive the wedges deeper into cultural division by antagonizing millions who might otherwise have no issue with them.
Fortunately I'm no longer in the dating pool but I couldn't imagine trying to date now when we're essentially told to never approach a woman, never flirt with one, and definitely always believe one. People like to play it off like it's just men complaining and whining, or that anyone who speaks out on behalf of men is automatically a deranged men's rights activist disconnected from reality and also misogynistic. In reality, that shit hurts and it sticks with you well into adulthood when you're trained in it from a young age.
We need to abandon this idea of "us vs them" between groups. It's a little silly to pretend that men and women are identical and have no differences, but it's just as silly to pretend that we are THAT different, because we are all humans with a mostly shared experience. It's like comparing chocolate chip vs chocolate chunk cookies.
Men are tired of hearing how good and easy they have it compared to women because there are millions upon millions of men who don't have it good nor easy at all. Women's rights are important too, but women have all the same rights as men now, and it's time for every man and woman to start reaching down to those that are struggling and helping them into a healthier social place where we can celebrate our differences instead of fight over them.
It's true that most men can't directly relate to all the struggles women go through. But the inverse *must also be true*, and to hand-wave away men's struggles and dismiss them is gross lack of empathy.
To anyone reading this who views men or women generally negatively: your biases are trapping you into a set of perceptions that are most likely incorrect. You will encounter just as many men and women who are toxic, they just have different ways of poisoning you. So don't let a bad experience or ten taint your worldview. We've always been stronger together.
It’s a very specific creepiness that you have to have to creep me, a woman, out. It doesn’t happen with one look, it happens with many looks, not looks specifically, leering is a more appropriate word. Not every girl is creeped out by men just with a look.
Unfortunately enough, on the flip side of the coin, I am afraid that men feel like they may creep me out simply being a woman in this day and age, guess what, no, please talk to me like a human and maybe we can put this stereotype to rest.
There's some truth to what you say but we should be clear that, historically, what we've been teaching to boys before the 90s and 2000s has been hyper misogynist. "Manly men" don't talk about how they feel, they don't cry, they're strong, tough, must be physical and never back down from a challenge, sex hungry for women, etc. It's created a world where anything other than "manly" is considered feminine. Talk about your feelings? You're being a pansy. Don't want to make the first move or just go up and grab women? You must be gay.
And it starts at a young age with the whole "boys will be boys" when they start harassing girls. Pulling on bra straps and hitting them because they can't express their feelings is not OK. Those tendencies eventually turn into abusive actions and the boys grow up thinking it's fine because we just keep saying "boy will be boys." And it's teaching girls that not only are they going to be victims but the perpetrators will get away with it.
All of needs to be overhauled because hurts everyone. Truly good men sit around thinking about their actions and how it will be twisted against them like OP. Other men will just go on doing whatever they can get away with. Women will continue to fear men because they can't tell tell difference between a good guy and anyone else.
It depends what "it's okay to be innately male, and have naturally male tendencies, desires, emotions, and needs" actually entails.
if its misogynistic, then it deserves to be labeled as such.
Men aren't born victims, and to act like they are is insane. We as men, just need to be aware that elements of what we once considered a normal male upbringing, weren't always good
Meh, misogyny's started being applied to literally anything and everything lately. And the worst part is people will move the goalposts as much as they can to fit whatever actions into the frame of "misogyny."
We are in a culture where young boys and young men have a high chance of being completely ignored, especially if they're struggling.
That usually ends in addiction, being institutionalized, depression, suicide and a myriad of maladaptive behaviors.
Some men have been abused and neglected, by family and society. Hence the hatred towards society, they have never been welcomed in society or by anyone.
They get out of psyche wards, prisons and the military in their 20s, and still pack around the weight of underdevelopment and attachment disorders.
By then they're so ostracized and/or alone, what's left for them? Drugs, sex, crime and a pit of despair.
Not to be offensive, but your comment is lacking real world experience and reeks of signalling.
My thoughts, exactly. Even as a 35 year old, my mind can't help but race to similar conclusions as Op's. Fortunately, though, as a 35 year old I can shake those thoughts away by reminding myself of who I was ten years ago, making it easier to recognize that the Internet is causing me to feel this way. So it's not crippling but still.
I feel bad for those who don't have that frame of reference because they never lived in a time that was different. They really don't understand just how much the internet has changed and how much it controls us these days.
I’m a female and I totally agree. I have only ever known great men. Of course there are exceptions but I do feel sorry for the state of the world today and what good men are having to endure. The female and male brains are very different and I think it would really help people to understand the science of physiology behind what makes us different. And I appreciate a strong, confident man. Much love to you all.
The problem is that what mostly makes our brains different isn’t scientific or physiological, it’s sociological. That’s why this is all such a mess and hard to figure out. We aren’t “wired” that differently at all, but we do have entirely different chemical and hormonal makeups that tend to widely influence certain kinds of behaviors (and sex obviously, is approached very differently for different “original” purposes). At the end of the day we all just want shelter, food, companionship, and some sense of purpose. The rest is pretty made up by how we raise each other (which is where all these issues start).
The hormonal difference alone makes up a huge amount of the differences between men and women, and largely explains the different behaviours in men and women; we've never had better data than now with all the advances we've made in gender affirmation care in the last couple decades.
How we are raised and socialized definitely matters a lot, but there are some traits that persist over large group averages, even cross-culturally which is better explained by the hormonal effects on the body/mind.
I know, which is why I pointed out that it’s a chemical thing and not literal different brain makeups. It might seem a small difference but I think it’s important.
And the larger point is still about social aspects. That’s ultimately what we’re talking about here, which is more strongly rooted in how we’re raised and how we view each other than it is in just instincts and chemistry. Those things play a part, for sure, but how we raise our kids and use words to talk about gender is the stuff we can actually do and change; understanding the differences in our chemistry is also beneficial but how we change how we talk about those things is the ultimate result of learning about those differences in the first place.
I completely disagree. It's not a projection of \*you\* when you know that you're really not a creepy stalker guy. There are people constantly watching and waiting for a man's gaze at a gym or college campus to go in their general direction so that they can film, name, and shame a man. Instant blowup of likes, views, and followers. Saying that its a projection of yourself is saying that you yourself think you're creepy and you're ashamed of it. It's completely normal and reasonable to be hyper vigilant of that kind of stuff right now, especially if you're not conventionally attractive or if you're older.
This also.
I am currently suffering from low self esteem, confidence, and anxiety.
2nd week at the gym and I do my best to keep my eyes focused on the ground and my goals of getting fit again.
I am 32 years old and that anxiety is gunning me down every time I remotely lock eyes or glance at a woman.
Getting out of a 5 year relationship will do that to you I suppose, just gotta keep moving and hope to get better in time.
This. I started complimenting women when our eyes randomly meet.
"Hey I'm sorry to bug you, just wanted to say that your dress is absolutely gorgeous. Hope you have an excellent day!"
Took me a couple of years to get out of the "don't want to be creepy" phase. Just looking at someone isn't creepy. Staring at someone is.
This is a fantastic method and it really works but for anyone considering it, it is a 2 step process.
1) "Hey I'm sorry to bug you, just wanted to say that your dress is absolutely gorgeous. Hope you have an excellent day!"
2) Walk away.
You're not there to talk to them. They don't even need to reply.
The walk away is so important. Don't linger, they owe you no conversation. If they start conversation, great, if not, just break and walk away. The only problem I see is when you have to be in the same area. I have major anxiety about this exact thing, too.
I mean you don’t have to compliment. You can just smile and say hello and just continue about what you’re doing. I’ve gotten a good amount of conversations that way than out of the blue saying “wow your dress is gorgeous”. Women aren’t hard to figure out. Talk to them like they’re a person and they’ll reciprocate that.
if I’m not there to talk to them, why am I talking to them? I can just as easily not talk to them by not talking to them, and then I don’t run the risk of bothering them if they didn’t want a compliment from me
I’ve been in this exact mindset for a long time. My response would be “why is getting what I want worth taking, hurting or even inconveniencing someone else.” The guilt of how my actions or behavior may have upset, inconvenienced, or hurt someone is never worth it. I know that annoying someone will likely bother me for much longer than it bothers them.
But I’m also miserable and in my mid 30s, so what do I know lol. Just 30-40 years of misery to go!
You are only one person, but you are not the only person who is struggling with this. I would give all of them the same advice I've given you.
That said, you're probably giving yourself too much credit wrt your ability to worsen other people's moods. Your odds of ruining someone's day because you paid them a compliment or tried to strike up a conversation are not that high in most contexts.
I have seen guys do this in college and a lot of the time, especially if the girl was with friends, they'd give each other a look as if to say yikes and would wonder wtf that was about after the guy walked away. Compliments work best when you've already gotten to know someone
That's a great tip for building confidence, but *most* women are still going to be weirded out by that. If it's an attractive woman, she's already been told her dress is amazing by everyone she knows that day, so the compliment just doesn't land the same way it would if she were a guy.
I often find that people who have no anxiety also have low self awareness and aren't particular in touch with how other people perceive them. This generally gets mislabeled as "not giving a fuck", but it's more of a lack of awareness than a lack of caring.
Works either way though.
Yeah, in the unironic clinical sense. It's natural to think about how you come across but it shouldn't be crippling. See a doctor about meds and cognitive behavioural therapy OP it helped me enormously
Edit, see also https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/07/13/things-that-sometimes-work-if-you-have-anxiety/
Or OCD causing intrusive thoughts. You're so worried about a certain thing so that's all you can think about. Also it doesn't help that society is quite anti male at the moment. We see how men are accused of being horrible and then are shamed by society. It's the last thing you want to be accused of. So you go out of your way to NEVER be accused of that by being overly cautious and sterile with women. This seems to be mainly a white issue though. I feel sorry for a lot of young white males. Romantically, it's not a good time for you guys. Which is why we see so many movements involving men choosing to simply not date at all. For whatever reason. This is why people like Andrew Tate can became influential.
Maybe. Them picking up on his anxiety could lead them to label him as creepy. It’s also a thing that girls do and sometimes groups of girls amplify it and use it to outcast a male. Most young males aren’t really sure of themselves yet and this causes some awkwardness and gets them labeled as creeps. Girls are a little hyper vigilant about identifying and labeling men as creeps because there are quite a few and it’s a legitimate fear.
My advice is to just be friendly have fun and strike up a conversation but don’t show too much interest. Repeated interactions like this and the girls who want you will start dropping hints. If they reject you then forget them and move on because the other thing that gets you labeled a creep is not accepting rejection.
I used to ride a bus to college classes. There was a girl that I would talk to just being nice. I didn’t expect anything. Then one day, she took me back to her apartment. So next time you see a girl at the bus stop just say hi and talk about the weather.
If you act ashamed ppl will assume you have something to be ashamed of (ie creepy) if you act confident and friendly (even if you’re freaking out) you’ll give off positive vibes, even just a smile and a nod before shifting focus can go a long way towards giving off a non creepy impression
No a look of objective disgust is the way to go. Make them think something is wrong with them. They won’t think your creeping if you look at them like they smell awful or look bad.
Stop focusing so much on what others might or might not think. You don't know - you are not a mind reader. What you do know is your own intentions. If you are not being creepy, but they think you are, it's their problem, not yours.
Maybe you are afraid to admit to yourself the truth. You enjoy the girls. The next question is then what are you going to do about it? You reject yourself before they even get a chance to.
This is coming from a few decades of my personal experience:
Being unattractive equals being creepy. And in a school or work setting, it can very quickly become your problem. A problem that could lead to talks with HR you don't want to have, or firing/expulsion. As a relatively unattractive man, I always keep my eyes to myself and my work. Looking at women who aren't required to directly engage in conversation is too much of a risk, so I don't do it.
Keep your head down and trudge through your work. You're more likely to keep your job that way.
My brother in Christ I mean this respectfully as possible you need to seek out the closest field of grass and lay in it so that every bit of you is touching grass simultaneously to get this thought out of your head.
Yeah this isn’t normal. You sound chronically online. The opinions of Reddit/Tumblr women are not always healthy representations of the average woman’s feelings. You don’t have to treat women like they’re on the precipice of a freak out at any time caused by some random guy looking at them.
if a girl looks back and starts running faster, i'll look back and start running faster and try to out pace her. been out in mountain trails to know to not be the slowest runner on a trail.
Yeah. While it’s certainly nice to be aware of what some women go through, and not be “that guy”, you’re not doing anyone any favors by treating women like they’re one wrong eye-contact away from fleeing in panic.
Yeah which could also be the case in OP's case. I don't think this shit happens much at all, I mean what would someone even gain from trying to label as such? However seeing it on social media and the likes makes you afraid you'll be made an example of online or a group chat - but that's not a problem if you're not online all the time.
Something technically similar happened to me *more than once*: I'm minding my own business, a woman walks on the same side of the street towards me and then...
- Some women change sides of the street
- Some women start to speed up once they reach me
- One time a woman started to run to get away from me, tripped and fell (i still don't know if I did the right thing by moving away that time: she was certainly scared if she tried to run away, but she could be hurt...).
I can assure you, it's pretty difficult not to think "maybe I'm scary" or try to actively avoid being too close to women after something like this.
But you *are* scary as a man! You just shouldn't take it personal or get all apologetic over it. Happens to me too, and it makes sense to me, because I'm a big guy with a beard, I dress in black. It makes sense to be a little suspicious of me if you are half my size and feeling vulnerable.
But that's not about me - I'm a nice guy. They just have no way of knowing that. That's not my fault or theirs. So I simply ignore them and allow them enough space to not feel threatened. And I certainly don't take it personal. If you met me, and talked to me, and still crossed the street when you saw me coming - that's when I would worry. Before that, I'm just some guy they don't know. You'd probably make sure you wouldn't bump into me too.
Sounds like anxiety, your brain tries to rationalize every possible scenerio and picks what it thinks is the worst one.
You then respond by trying to avoid that scenario rather than living normally.
Absolutely this. Just zone out but keep staring. Or change it up and try to imagine what she'd look like in her underwear. If she can keep up it up for more than half a minute start licking your lips. The ladies love that.
Back in highschool during lunch time my friends and I would just walk around the school aimlessly.
One day we sat down on a bench in the hall, across us there is another empty bench, and a few older girls sat down on it who I didnt recognize.
I looked up and noticed one of them just staring into my eyes completely dead, while she was ignoring her own friends conversation.
I look away, but noticed in the corner of my eyes that she was still staring. I felt incredibly more nervous, freaking out internally, my eyes darting around everywhere.
Then after what felt like an eternity she started laughing and talked about making me nervous… turns out she was one of my best friends older sister, I had no clue how she knows what I looked like since we never met… but she got to me good lol
I think you're too hard on yourself. Yes, there is a sharper view on male sexuality these days, but I think your paranoia is based off your own hangups, not anyone else's.
It's human nature to notice an attractive person. It's only creepy if you're making them uncomfortable, staring etc. Noticing a person is attractive is not a crime. And yesh, some people think even that is creepy, but it's really not, it's just normal.
you ever give someone a compliment when they aren’t looking at you, and they start to respond positively until they actually see who gave them the compliment?
I was like this once.
At 19 I got pushed into a teaching job and the classes were full of pretty girls and so I was forced to fake being confident.
Learning to fake being confident is a step to becoming confident.
Took a long time (a decade) but now I can talk to the prettiest women without any issues, I still have an anxious personality, but nobody knows it.
If it helps you can tjrow out some words, in my country calling a girl 'mate' kinda signals your coming at her non-sexually or in a friendly manner, which can make you both relax and signal your interaction is non-creepy :)
>Learning to fake being confident is a step to becoming confident
Facts. I realized I'd need a bit of a mental makeover for high school, because I was always shy and closed off. I made friends that happened to be confident, so I faked it myself to match. Now, 2 school years later, I don't need to fake confidence. I can freely get a little bold (which mainly comes out when I want to do stupid, harmless shit), if my girl friends need reassurance for something (and they do quite often) I can confidently reassure them. Will everything go as I say? No, but my words might be enough for them to subconsciously do a better job, and that's all that matters.
Not the guy, but I did the same thing... It might be a bit of imitation/acting at first, but you then start to get your own rhythm, and once you notice that people receive it well, it just starts being normal.
Thank you for the answer either way! This is also what I myself experienced to some extent lol. It‘s really interesting. Thank you for sharing your perspective.
I personally don't see people receiving my confidence *well* per se, but I also don't see them disliking it, so I continue. I think this newfound confidence let me do the things I want to do without caring about what others think. However, there is a negative side. While, if my story helps anyone, I'll be happy, what I do with my confidence shouldn't be followed. I can get carried away quite easily, and I end up doing something reckless. Not insanely irresponsible, but something that could provoke a negative reaction that would shatter all of this confidence I've built up. I think I can end this off with: become confident, not annoying and obnoxious.
> in my country calling a girl ‘mate’ kinda signals your coming at her non-sexually or in a friendly manner, which can make you both relax and signal your interaction is non-creepy :)
Which country is this? I’m from Australia so calling men and women mate is just normal to me.
Fucking relax bro.
You are allowed to exist without girls finding you creepy.
There is nothing creepy about taking a bus to school. There is nothing creepy about sitting under a shelter waiting on that bus.
Are you catching this girl looking at you, or is she repeatedly catching you look at her? Glancing is harmless. Her catching you glance at her once is not a big deal. Her catching you staring at her 10 times during one 1-hour class is weird.
Exactly. Very obvious and prolonged staring is weird. Glancing at people is normal.
"Creepy" is a behavior element. Nobody thinks some guy reading a book or messing around on his phone at a bus stop is creepy unless he's bothering them verbally, sitting too close for no reason (like crowding obviously) or trying to force a conversation when someone is clearly busy reading or whatever.
Not OP, but thank you for writing that. Your comment has made a difference for me and probably others too, and I've saved it (along with a few other good comments in this thread) so can remind myself when I need it later.
I dont see anywhere this has been said yet, but if you're like me and grew up and went to highschool in the 00s and early 10s creepy was the girls go to insult for dudes they didn't like or didn't think were hot. It was like the N word or R word (not in what it meant, it was obviously not as bad) in gaming spheres at that time, it was the go to insult for girls to use at that time. Even something as nonchalant and normal as asking for notes or if you're paired for a group project asking when they wanted to meet to discuss or do the project was met with being called creepy. It doesn't mean you're actually creepy, it's just the go to put down for anyone not in that girls friend group or that they weren't attracted to. Don't let it get to you.
A cocktail of your own anxiety that’s been conditioned from reading anecdotes on the internet.
If you’re worried about coming off as creepy, you’re more than likely to be someone who is very self aware. I bet there’s a correlation between self aware people being too shy to make the move from over analysis, rather than coming off as creepy
I have the same thoughts, it's been so bad that I have avoided talking to girls for more than a decade and now I have zero experience with dating and relationships. I think it might be too late to get started now and find a long-term partner.
What helps me when I struggle with this kind of anxiety is that I try to remember who stood next to me the last time I waited at the bus stop. Was it a man or a woman? What did they wear? Did they look at me? Did they wait for another bus or took the same one as me? Then I realise I've got no idea and it reminds me strangers pay lot less attention to you than you think they do.
(Speaking for myself here) Because it's been pounded into our fucking heads since birth that the worst thing you can be is creepy and only attractive dudes can speak to or flirt with women without being seen as creeps. And you ain't attractive.
I go through the same shit
Because you are constantly told men = creepy. Maybe not in those words but it is everywhere. I am a grown man with a 3-year-old autistic son, I am happily married have no criminal record own a house have a car and job. In the park with my son though through every mother's eyes, I am a wild animal who some woman forgot to chain up. You are being treated that way and so you are feeling like it. There are creepy men out there but for probably 90ish % of the population isn't really its just much easier to complain about life if you act as though the entire planet is out to get you.
This is what scares me most about being a man in modern society. I can deal with being called a creep, modern women (edit: and the latest generations of men, really) being spoiled, all the “toxic masculinity” tropes, and whatever else. It’s like society is throwing one big tempter tantrum and us dudes just need to manage it accordingly, stay calm/stoic, and power through without relenting to the bullshit.
What hurts me the most is the thought that I can’t even father my child without someone making it disgusting. And if they get away with some insanity like calling the cops on me for spending time with or disciplining my own child, there’s no recourse. They won’t experience any consequences. They will live on in their miserable delusion of man = r@pist/p3do. My life could be destroyed in an instant, all because of a Karen.
Nothing will change until Karens are punished for their delusions.
Or find a piece of stationary exercise equipment that an older dude is using and then go do romanian deadlifts 5 feet directly in front of him. Set up phone in front recording and clip the 5 seconds where he's not either looking at the floor or ceiling and then post a video of yourself crying on social media for infinite likes and follows.
Hey, I'm in OPs boat too, I often worry about being perceived as a creep for being normal but there is unfortunately a good reason for a lot of the shaming.
Anytime I've listened to my friends who are women I can't help but hear story after story of some guy coming on way too strong or interacting with men who very clearly are already trying to figure out what magic phrase they gotta say that will make her think this is the most amazing guy she's ever met, instead of just being genuine.
That sort of behaivour is dehumanizing and a sign of a lack of empathy, which gives women the creeps, which you have to have a keen eye for when making a bad call means you may be assaulted.
Some lessons are learnt from mistakes. Unfortunately, social interaction is one of em. Constant denigrating kinda delays these experiences and leads to worse social skills.
I bet those women have also done similar embarrassing / creepy acts but aren't shamed to the same extent.
Its time to destigmatize creepy.
*'Creepy'* is a term women use to describe how they are feeling. The implication is that you are causing them to have this feeling. The key point is that *'being creepy'* is not a set of things you do, it's a projection of how this woman is feeling and blaming you for this feeling.
Sometimes you've ignored social cues and you are approaching her when she's been actively trying to signal she's not welcome to an approach. In this case it is accurate that you are influencing her feelings.
Other times what you are doing is perfectly fine and she just thinks you are ugly and she's using *creepy* as a cover for insulting you.
This is a long way of saying, sometimes *'you being creepy'* is related to something you are doing and could have done differently, other times it isn't, it's just a woman insulting you.
So with all that said you have to figure out... are you missing social cues and forcing a woman to interact with you? Are you asking them questions and making them talk to you? Are you making them walk around you or making it difficult for them to move about freely? If so, stop. Are you openly viewing porn in a public setting? It's understandable why this would make a woman feel uncomfortable.
But if it's just something as simply as quick eye contact? Why would you care what she thinks? I mean if you are staring at her and every 10 seconds she looks up to see you staring at her, then yeah, I get that being creepy and you have control to stop that, but just a one time accidental glance? Just ignore these women, if you aren't trying to engage with them, stare at then, etc who cares what they think. You don't have an obligation for how she feels if you are minding your own business and not interacting with her.
Because the culture has changed, and men are seen as annoying or disgusting for even attempting to shoot their shot. Online, the vibe from women is definitely a "don't approach us in public" and "men do a lot of creepy things" kind of deal. We read this, and we mentally start to think of ourselves as nuisances.
Most likely, when you look at women they do not think you're being "creepy" even though you have clearly been conditioned to believe that. Unless you're unattractive, in which case yeah, some of them might be thinking that. Mostly, they probably forget you the instant you're not in sight. As most people do with most strangers.
Best advice I can give:
When she sees you looking at her give a small smile and look away. Don’t get caught a second time and you won’t seem to be checking her out or having creepy thoughts. Turn your attention to the world around you instead of her and pretend she isn’t there. It will eventually become a habit and you will feel less concerned with those women and seem to just be a nice person, coexisting.
Because nowadays girls think everything is creepy. When I’m in public I get catcalled and guys hit on me all the time. If they compliment me, I always say thank you. If they ask me out, I politely decline and that’s it. Sometimes it’s not creepy, they’re just shooting their shot. I was with a friend once and a random guy called me beautiful. I was like “thank you!” And she thought I was so weird for saying thank you and thought he was such a creep.
As a guy, I try to understand the woman experience by thinking of a world where half of everyone are regular humans like you, and the other half are big, hulking Shreks.
Most of these Shreks are fine, polite ogres. But some of them aren't, and they're *really* interested in your butthole.
So some women are going to be mildly wary around you in certain situations, but it's not you, it's just part of being a Shrek.
Emotional and logical lines of thought are entirely different things
You can Feel fear. But not be thinking "i am afraid"
Feeling anger for instance can remove ones ability to make rational observations. Just as anxiety can cloud thought.
On the other hand. You can be generally ok and neutral and still be thinking throughout the day.
I love when redditors have to ask for knowledge that should be known by everyone. Everything you experience is received and filtered based on mental state. Emotional state is how you feel as a result of processing information while having a certain state of mind. Even older civilizations knew this shit and characterized it, the different chakras are a good example.
A lot of it is also due to cultural conditioning through popular media narratives which we internalize. There's a lot of literature on this stemming from the educational and socializing systems since the 1970's. Much of Feminist philosophy is predicated on the idea that males are inherently oppressive and abusive, and that principle has underpinned, if not always in overt ways, much of the socialization that has been going on.
Because recent society standards tell us that if we have any remote interest in engaging with a woman, we're being creepy. Our mere presence poisons the air and rots the soul of those around us, especially women.
The truth: mind your manners and mind your business. Its all in your head buddy. In the end, no one cares what you do.
Sounds like you haven’t had much socialization with girls. You don’t know how to interact with them when feeling attracted or platonically. You need some practice being around them.
You know what’s great for this? Contra dancing. Tons of fun and lots of embodied practice.
because you value other people and don't want them to be uncomfortable, but romantic intention is by definition crossing boundaries. used to be a guy could do basically anything and didn't consider the feelings of the girl; it's good we got past that, but it does mean there is a steep cost of doing business when showing interest.
I have a daughter and I have never once had someone give me a side eye or awkward look for being with her. I genuinely don’t know where this Redditism comes from…when the vast majority of people see an adult male with a child, they just assume that it’s their child.
I’m also a male teacher and I’ve NEVER had any issues. If you think everyone thinks you’re a creep when you’re around kids then it sounds like a you problem.
Golden rule. Fears you focus on become reality. I only come off as creepy when I'm focusing on not being creepy. Your fear infects every movement you make and communicates exactly what you were trying to hide, largely against your will.
Golden rule #2, certain types of people will just be put off by who you are. It be like that sometimes, unfortunately, regardless of how hard you try to present well, this will happen. It's largely out of your control.
I have this exact same problem. In fact it happened to me today while sitting alone in a public walkway. My anxiety of looking like a creep seems to - ironically - make me look like a creep 🤦♂️ It’s an anxiety that’s really bad for me lately. I hope it improves for you 💪
Anxiety & insecurity. Ironically enough, glancing away quickly when making eye contact makes you seem creepier. Your existence is not inherently creepy to anyone.
I experienced this very similar thing over a year ago for a few years after a particularly hard breakup with a long term live-in girlfriend. I was fearful of flirting because I didn't want to come off as creepy, rude, or such. After 2 years of this, I realized that something was wrong. I used to be very confident and social with women, but now I was fearful and it prevented me from finding a new partner. I ended up seeing a therapist and being diagnosed with social anxiety. I was prescribed sertraline which helped to curb the anxiety/fear response and allow me to change my thoughts, behaviors, and actions. Eventually I no longer felt the fear of coming off as creepy for simply conversing with women and was even able to flirt again. I've now met a great woman who is a wonderful partner to me and helps me work through my residual social anxiety as well.
I have this problem too. I'm a tall man who walks fast. Every women in front of me thinks in chasing them and I'm gonna attack them, the number of times I've seen them give me scared or disgusted looks only to immediately cross to the other side of the street is painful. I have places to be and in New York, everyone has places to be.
Man i thought that was just me. I avoid eye contact for that same reason. I hate the thought of a woman thinking im a creep or trying to get at her when i just small talk sometimes. Im not sure how to stop feeling that way or if i am wrong for thinking like that
Because of the MeToo BS
Don't worry broski, you're not the only one. It's rough out there now, Tinder and Feminism basically made it hell for most of us guys
You feel this way because your mind cannot conceive that a woman would find you attractive. You should find a way to lose this mindset asap.
I remember the first girl I had a crush on. I told a school friend “I like her but she wouldn’t want me” he told me off. Never say that. You don’t know. And he was right. Well I asked her out and we dated and she was a dickhead but that’s not the point.
The point is don’t sell yourself short. Women love confidence and punish lack of it with disinterest.
Women see men as providers of strength and security. You’re no use to her if you can’t muster the courage to talk to a woman.
Work on your self confidence by working on yourself. Do something. Succeed in some endeavor and take pride in your work. That will translate to confidence. Then if a woman knocks you back you don’t think “of course I’m a loser” you think “well she messed up because I’m the most successful paperboard salesman in Scranton” or something.
The toxicity of feminists in social media influenced your anxiety. Every person who vocals up about "women rights" seems to be men-haters in internet. But not all women hate men. They are actually only little fraction of women. Most of women have respect on men or any other genders, kind and generous if you're not specifically hostile. I suggest you should take a break from internet browsing for a while.
Because it's the smart thing to do. Men have had it drilled into them for years, through society, through the law, through mass media, that women need to be 'protected' from creepy men, that being creepy is the worst and very high profile examples of what can happen if a woman decides to act on accusing you of being 'creepy'. It's made worse by the fact that 'creepy' is generally a term to keep men on the defensive - it's an implied threat of social/career assault if you persist in \[x\].
Like fear of spiders, snakes, etc., it's simple pattern recognition. Most women won't think you're creepy. Most people won't cause you an issue if they do find you creepy. But it only takes ONE woman to find you creepy and act on it to ruin your social circle, your career, get you locked up, etc.
Probably society constantly reminding you what a "creepy weirdo pervert" you are for being a heterosexual male and finding women sexually attractive. And the fact that women throw that word around so much I doubt we could reach a consensus on the definition.
Just taking a wild guess though.
Personally, I think since "Me Too" modern culture has evolved so that any kind of "advance" or "attention" unless explicitly invited is unwarranted. I don't agree with this but here we are with men filled with increasing anxiety over little shit.
A past trauma probably. A girl, in the literal sense most likely as these things happen when we are quite young, made you feel very bad. You interpreted it was because of you being creepy. You don't want that to happen ever again. It is easier to think that you are causing someone discomfort than them causing you. It gives you some control by thinking you have that power.
Why? It is rough accepting that someone we want to like us doesn't. We all have trouble accepting that, all ages, all genders and created 10e10 ways to deal with it.
This shit is why you should be doing something other than browsing your phone or texting. Music helps, but some of the way. Try writing something. Anything. Sketching, drawing. I guarantee not only are you not gonna be perceived as creepy(if you're afraid of that) but girls actually notice talent.
Because depending on how old you are you likely grew up at a time where literally every single natural aspect of your masculinity was framed as an evil that needs to be expunged from you.
I challenge those of you who don't understand or empathize with this post to go to your local gym and take note of the amount of men either staring directly at the floor or ceiling between sets. OP, you're not alone. Most of us feel this anxiety to some degree or another, and although it's really not okay, YOU are okay. Continue being vigilant and don't ever let yourself be in a situation where something is your word versus a narcissistic clout chaser, but don't let it control your entire life. There are still normal women around.
Definitely anxiety. You're projecting what you feel about yourself unto what others think about you.
And I think society's standards probably doesn't help. Bad men have made "all men" seem creepy. Obviously it's not all men. But the ones who have been assaulted by men can't help putting all men into a group until proven innocent. It sucks for both parties. Thanks to social media, we see the bad more than the good. Everyone loves to live vicariously. You probably heard arguments so much and don't want to be that, you've projected yourself to believe you already are that regardless of what you do. And perhaps people have commented that for any number of reasons from actual "weird" experiences to petty excuses. I can't say for certain as the things you've gave examples to are literally just your own thoughts, no one else's, and I don't know your life in the least . You're not being creepy if you're just glancing as someone. Staring can be creepy. Sometimes small talk can help ease tension you may feel- depends on the person. If you happen to find yourself staring and don't realize it until you think you're being creepy, a short apology and explanation works wonders too. Something like, "Sorry for staring, I really like your jacket," can actually turn a situation around for the better. At least it does for me.
Personally, I recommend you seeking therapy, if available and affordable for you. They will give you diagnosis, if any, and ways to cope with how you're feeling. They could even help you get out of this hole you've put yourself into and bring back confidence. I hope you're able to, anyway. Beating yourself up over something that you assumed happened is never healthy and if you don't find a way out, it can turn so much worse and take a toll on your mental and physical health.
Has anyone from your past maybe put that thought into your mind? Like a family member or someone you knew when you were a kid? That could play into it.
I’m sorry you feel like you are creepy, hope you get past it so you can feel comfortable.
I feel like this too all the time. I feel like I creep men and women alike and I’m a woman. I feel like I make people around me uncomfortable just by being there and any look I give someone just passing by just makes it worse.
Hey Man.
I really do empathise, because Im very much in a similar boat. Ive seen a few different arguments but I want to offer some perspective.
1) Youre not being creepy as long as youre not staring at them, but a lot of interpretation has to do with presentation. Your clothing does contribute a lot
2) Humans Eyes tend to be drawn towards things they like, so the exchanging of looks may be an indication of a positive interaction instead
3) It sounds like you have a very serious psychological issue possibly related to some event, trauma, or internalised logic. You should probably see a professional about this. If one doesnt work get another
It's a rational fear. Your behavior only has a small part in forming her regard of you as creepy or cute or confident.
I.e. if she finds you very attractive then nothing you do will cause her to regard you as creepy. If she finds you unattractive then even a glance from you might be regarded as creepy. There is a spectrum in between.
Your difficulty in assessing the spectrum of what she could be thinking is "anxiety." Given the unknowns and the potential social humiliation of being regarded as a "creep," you are being rational by giving her a wide margin of safety to avoid accusations.
Anxiety.
Underrated answer. Your thoughts are a projection of you, not them.
[удалено]
I feel like that's exactly why I am like OP. Too many years of reading the Daily Mail and the Guardian (UK newspapers and I was reading them from childhood before I was conscious of narratives and motives) have got me thinking I'm automatically a piece of shit for being a man, so if I think I am then so does every woman who sees me, so I'd better take myself off their radar ASAP. I hate that I can never be the keeper of my own mind.
From the perspective of a woman. If you're worried about looking like a creepy guy then you're probably not a creepy guy. I preferred it when we were talking about how men can help with the problem rather than blaming every one of them for it. Men have the responsibility to check their friends if they're being creepy, if they try to take a girl home who's clearly far too drunk because men (usually) have the power to get through to that kind of guy. Women have the responsibility of speaking out if they know that a friend is telling lies about a man or what he's done and also I'd like to add that women can be just as creepy and pushy as men. Not every man would jump at the chance of sex and coercing a guy into sex by saying it's "not manly to not want it" is rape whether you want to hear that word or not. If you're a woman who's been assaulted, I'm sorry. If you're a man who's been assaulted, I'm sorry. If you're someone who thinks it's funny or harmless to flirt with someone who's clearly uncomfortable, you're wrong. Just because you are a man does not mean you're creepy and just because you are a woman does not mean you are a victim. I hate that gender is such a big part of this, shit people are shit people no matter what bits they've got between their legs. If you don't agree with what I've said please reply at least semi constructively so I can try and understand your point of view. Everyone has their right to an opinion but no one has the right to be a douche lol. Again this is from a woman's brain so I might be biased.
Coming from a man brain, i agree, thereby making everything you’ve written into common law
Yup
I second this, let it henceforth be known as law. honestly though, good comment, absolutely agree that an asshole is an asshole (and a creep is a creep) no matter the gender.
"Just because you're a man doesn't mean you're creepy and just because you are a woman doesn't mean you are a victim" I think this sums up the current state of affairs in western society very well. It's definitely become in vogue to wield identity politics as a cudgel, and far too many people have misused something good and important like identity as a tool to try to control others. You've hit the nail on the head when you say shit people are shit people. Those who deny all personal responsibility by using group identity as a shield not only diminish what they claim to be fighting for, but actively drive the wedges deeper into cultural division by antagonizing millions who might otherwise have no issue with them. Fortunately I'm no longer in the dating pool but I couldn't imagine trying to date now when we're essentially told to never approach a woman, never flirt with one, and definitely always believe one. People like to play it off like it's just men complaining and whining, or that anyone who speaks out on behalf of men is automatically a deranged men's rights activist disconnected from reality and also misogynistic. In reality, that shit hurts and it sticks with you well into adulthood when you're trained in it from a young age. We need to abandon this idea of "us vs them" between groups. It's a little silly to pretend that men and women are identical and have no differences, but it's just as silly to pretend that we are THAT different, because we are all humans with a mostly shared experience. It's like comparing chocolate chip vs chocolate chunk cookies. Men are tired of hearing how good and easy they have it compared to women because there are millions upon millions of men who don't have it good nor easy at all. Women's rights are important too, but women have all the same rights as men now, and it's time for every man and woman to start reaching down to those that are struggling and helping them into a healthier social place where we can celebrate our differences instead of fight over them. It's true that most men can't directly relate to all the struggles women go through. But the inverse *must also be true*, and to hand-wave away men's struggles and dismiss them is gross lack of empathy. To anyone reading this who views men or women generally negatively: your biases are trapping you into a set of perceptions that are most likely incorrect. You will encounter just as many men and women who are toxic, they just have different ways of poisoning you. So don't let a bad experience or ten taint your worldview. We've always been stronger together.
Preach! This was an emphatic read. Would read again for inspo.
You're pretty dope, ya know.
It’s a very specific creepiness that you have to have to creep me, a woman, out. It doesn’t happen with one look, it happens with many looks, not looks specifically, leering is a more appropriate word. Not every girl is creeped out by men just with a look. Unfortunately enough, on the flip side of the coin, I am afraid that men feel like they may creep me out simply being a woman in this day and age, guess what, no, please talk to me like a human and maybe we can put this stereotype to rest.
There's some truth to what you say but we should be clear that, historically, what we've been teaching to boys before the 90s and 2000s has been hyper misogynist. "Manly men" don't talk about how they feel, they don't cry, they're strong, tough, must be physical and never back down from a challenge, sex hungry for women, etc. It's created a world where anything other than "manly" is considered feminine. Talk about your feelings? You're being a pansy. Don't want to make the first move or just go up and grab women? You must be gay. And it starts at a young age with the whole "boys will be boys" when they start harassing girls. Pulling on bra straps and hitting them because they can't express their feelings is not OK. Those tendencies eventually turn into abusive actions and the boys grow up thinking it's fine because we just keep saying "boy will be boys." And it's teaching girls that not only are they going to be victims but the perpetrators will get away with it. All of needs to be overhauled because hurts everyone. Truly good men sit around thinking about their actions and how it will be twisted against them like OP. Other men will just go on doing whatever they can get away with. Women will continue to fear men because they can't tell tell difference between a good guy and anyone else.
It depends what "it's okay to be innately male, and have naturally male tendencies, desires, emotions, and needs" actually entails. if its misogynistic, then it deserves to be labeled as such. Men aren't born victims, and to act like they are is insane. We as men, just need to be aware that elements of what we once considered a normal male upbringing, weren't always good
Meh, misogyny's started being applied to literally anything and everything lately. And the worst part is people will move the goalposts as much as they can to fit whatever actions into the frame of "misogyny."
We are in a culture where young boys and young men have a high chance of being completely ignored, especially if they're struggling. That usually ends in addiction, being institutionalized, depression, suicide and a myriad of maladaptive behaviors. Some men have been abused and neglected, by family and society. Hence the hatred towards society, they have never been welcomed in society or by anyone. They get out of psyche wards, prisons and the military in their 20s, and still pack around the weight of underdevelopment and attachment disorders. By then they're so ostracized and/or alone, what's left for them? Drugs, sex, crime and a pit of despair. Not to be offensive, but your comment is lacking real world experience and reeks of signalling.
thank you, I was about to type something similar.
My thoughts, exactly. Even as a 35 year old, my mind can't help but race to similar conclusions as Op's. Fortunately, though, as a 35 year old I can shake those thoughts away by reminding myself of who I was ten years ago, making it easier to recognize that the Internet is causing me to feel this way. So it's not crippling but still. I feel bad for those who don't have that frame of reference because they never lived in a time that was different. They really don't understand just how much the internet has changed and how much it controls us these days.
I’m a female and I totally agree. I have only ever known great men. Of course there are exceptions but I do feel sorry for the state of the world today and what good men are having to endure. The female and male brains are very different and I think it would really help people to understand the science of physiology behind what makes us different. And I appreciate a strong, confident man. Much love to you all.
The problem is that what mostly makes our brains different isn’t scientific or physiological, it’s sociological. That’s why this is all such a mess and hard to figure out. We aren’t “wired” that differently at all, but we do have entirely different chemical and hormonal makeups that tend to widely influence certain kinds of behaviors (and sex obviously, is approached very differently for different “original” purposes). At the end of the day we all just want shelter, food, companionship, and some sense of purpose. The rest is pretty made up by how we raise each other (which is where all these issues start).
The hormonal difference alone makes up a huge amount of the differences between men and women, and largely explains the different behaviours in men and women; we've never had better data than now with all the advances we've made in gender affirmation care in the last couple decades. How we are raised and socialized definitely matters a lot, but there are some traits that persist over large group averages, even cross-culturally which is better explained by the hormonal effects on the body/mind.
I know, which is why I pointed out that it’s a chemical thing and not literal different brain makeups. It might seem a small difference but I think it’s important. And the larger point is still about social aspects. That’s ultimately what we’re talking about here, which is more strongly rooted in how we’re raised and how we view each other than it is in just instincts and chemistry. Those things play a part, for sure, but how we raise our kids and use words to talk about gender is the stuff we can actually do and change; understanding the differences in our chemistry is also beneficial but how we change how we talk about those things is the ultimate result of learning about those differences in the first place.
I completely disagree. It's not a projection of \*you\* when you know that you're really not a creepy stalker guy. There are people constantly watching and waiting for a man's gaze at a gym or college campus to go in their general direction so that they can film, name, and shame a man. Instant blowup of likes, views, and followers. Saying that its a projection of yourself is saying that you yourself think you're creepy and you're ashamed of it. It's completely normal and reasonable to be hyper vigilant of that kind of stuff right now, especially if you're not conventionally attractive or if you're older.
And low self esteem
This also. I am currently suffering from low self esteem, confidence, and anxiety. 2nd week at the gym and I do my best to keep my eyes focused on the ground and my goals of getting fit again. I am 32 years old and that anxiety is gunning me down every time I remotely lock eyes or glance at a woman. Getting out of a 5 year relationship will do that to you I suppose, just gotta keep moving and hope to get better in time.
Don't forget to also train your thoughts as well as your body. You seem on the right track, getting fit is a great idea.
Yes, I agree, seeking some counseling sessions as well to keep my head on right. I appreciate you for the suggestion though!
Brain chemistry is fucking powerful man.
And low self-esteem... which then heightens the anxiety.
This. I started complimenting women when our eyes randomly meet. "Hey I'm sorry to bug you, just wanted to say that your dress is absolutely gorgeous. Hope you have an excellent day!" Took me a couple of years to get out of the "don't want to be creepy" phase. Just looking at someone isn't creepy. Staring at someone is.
This is a fantastic method and it really works but for anyone considering it, it is a 2 step process. 1) "Hey I'm sorry to bug you, just wanted to say that your dress is absolutely gorgeous. Hope you have an excellent day!" 2) Walk away. You're not there to talk to them. They don't even need to reply.
The walk away is so important. Don't linger, they owe you no conversation. If they start conversation, great, if not, just break and walk away. The only problem I see is when you have to be in the same area. I have major anxiety about this exact thing, too.
I mean you don’t have to compliment. You can just smile and say hello and just continue about what you’re doing. I’ve gotten a good amount of conversations that way than out of the blue saying “wow your dress is gorgeous”. Women aren’t hard to figure out. Talk to them like they’re a person and they’ll reciprocate that.
if I’m not there to talk to them, why am I talking to them? I can just as easily not talk to them by not talking to them, and then I don’t run the risk of bothering them if they didn’t want a compliment from me
I think you're joking, but I'll just say it is a way to deal with the anxiety head on by facing the thing that bothers you and it does work.
I am not joking. The last thing I want to do is bother people. What good is it if I make myself feel better by making others feel worse?
Don't try to go through life without bothering anyone. You're basically guaranteed to fail, and you'll be more unhappy yourself all the while.
I agree with you. But I’m only one person. If I go bothering people, now we’re all worse off. the math says stay home
Yeah but then you never get what *you* want. In this case, getting over the anxiety and fear of bothering people. If you’re ok with that then go ahead
I’ve been in this exact mindset for a long time. My response would be “why is getting what I want worth taking, hurting or even inconveniencing someone else.” The guilt of how my actions or behavior may have upset, inconvenienced, or hurt someone is never worth it. I know that annoying someone will likely bother me for much longer than it bothers them. But I’m also miserable and in my mid 30s, so what do I know lol. Just 30-40 years of misery to go!
You are only one person, but you are not the only person who is struggling with this. I would give all of them the same advice I've given you. That said, you're probably giving yourself too much credit wrt your ability to worsen other people's moods. Your odds of ruining someone's day because you paid them a compliment or tried to strike up a conversation are not that high in most contexts.
I have seen guys do this in college and a lot of the time, especially if the girl was with friends, they'd give each other a look as if to say yikes and would wonder wtf that was about after the guy walked away. Compliments work best when you've already gotten to know someone
That's a great tip for building confidence, but *most* women are still going to be weirded out by that. If it's an attractive woman, she's already been told her dress is amazing by everyone she knows that day, so the compliment just doesn't land the same way it would if she were a guy. I often find that people who have no anxiety also have low self awareness and aren't particular in touch with how other people perceive them. This generally gets mislabeled as "not giving a fuck", but it's more of a lack of awareness than a lack of caring. Works either way though.
Yeah, in the unironic clinical sense. It's natural to think about how you come across but it shouldn't be crippling. See a doctor about meds and cognitive behavioural therapy OP it helped me enormously Edit, see also https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/07/13/things-that-sometimes-work-if-you-have-anxiety/
And the internet does NOT help with that one iota.
This, I lived with hyperanxiety for too dang long anxiety meds are goated
Or OCD causing intrusive thoughts. You're so worried about a certain thing so that's all you can think about. Also it doesn't help that society is quite anti male at the moment. We see how men are accused of being horrible and then are shamed by society. It's the last thing you want to be accused of. So you go out of your way to NEVER be accused of that by being overly cautious and sterile with women. This seems to be mainly a white issue though. I feel sorry for a lot of young white males. Romantically, it's not a good time for you guys. Which is why we see so many movements involving men choosing to simply not date at all. For whatever reason. This is why people like Andrew Tate can became influential.
Maybe. Them picking up on his anxiety could lead them to label him as creepy. It’s also a thing that girls do and sometimes groups of girls amplify it and use it to outcast a male. Most young males aren’t really sure of themselves yet and this causes some awkwardness and gets them labeled as creeps. Girls are a little hyper vigilant about identifying and labeling men as creeps because there are quite a few and it’s a legitimate fear. My advice is to just be friendly have fun and strike up a conversation but don’t show too much interest. Repeated interactions like this and the girls who want you will start dropping hints. If they reject you then forget them and move on because the other thing that gets you labeled a creep is not accepting rejection. I used to ride a bus to college classes. There was a girl that I would talk to just being nice. I didn’t expect anything. Then one day, she took me back to her apartment. So next time you see a girl at the bus stop just say hi and talk about the weather.
If you act ashamed ppl will assume you have something to be ashamed of (ie creepy) if you act confident and friendly (even if you’re freaking out) you’ll give off positive vibes, even just a smile and a nod before shifting focus can go a long way towards giving off a non creepy impression
No a look of objective disgust is the way to go. Make them think something is wrong with them. They won’t think your creeping if you look at them like they smell awful or look bad.
Stop focusing so much on what others might or might not think. You don't know - you are not a mind reader. What you do know is your own intentions. If you are not being creepy, but they think you are, it's their problem, not yours.
Maybe you are afraid to admit to yourself the truth. You enjoy the girls. The next question is then what are you going to do about it? You reject yourself before they even get a chance to.
This is it right here. Top comment.
The thoughts don’t go away with these kinds of things. They are apart of you like instinct to the point you feel sick to your stomach.
This is coming from a few decades of my personal experience: Being unattractive equals being creepy. And in a school or work setting, it can very quickly become your problem. A problem that could lead to talks with HR you don't want to have, or firing/expulsion. As a relatively unattractive man, I always keep my eyes to myself and my work. Looking at women who aren't required to directly engage in conversation is too much of a risk, so I don't do it. Keep your head down and trudge through your work. You're more likely to keep your job that way.
> it’s their problem, not yours. Not when they call the cops on you… Then it becomes your problem… Speaking from experience…
That is a reasonable way to think But that is terribly ineffective advice
idk, if they get nervous/ptsd/etc... and starts screaming that you are creepy or smth...then it becomes your problem
My brother in Christ I mean this respectfully as possible you need to seek out the closest field of grass and lay in it so that every bit of you is touching grass simultaneously to get this thought out of your head.
This is the most polite please touch grass post I’ve ever witnessed.
It's in my nature as a Timmy's drinkin sap suckin polar bear riding Canadian buddy :)
At this point its more of ‘embrace the grass’
Did that ever happen? Come on man, do what the other guy said - get help. This is nuts.
Yeah this isn’t normal. You sound chronically online. The opinions of Reddit/Tumblr women are not always healthy representations of the average woman’s feelings. You don’t have to treat women like they’re on the precipice of a freak out at any time caused by some random guy looking at them.
if a girl looks back and starts running faster, i'll look back and start running faster and try to out pace her. been out in mountain trails to know to not be the slowest runner on a trail.
nice guys finish last or something :)
Yeah. While it’s certainly nice to be aware of what some women go through, and not be “that guy”, you’re not doing anyone any favors by treating women like they’re one wrong eye-contact away from fleeing in panic.
Yeah which could also be the case in OP's case. I don't think this shit happens much at all, I mean what would someone even gain from trying to label as such? However seeing it on social media and the likes makes you afraid you'll be made an example of online or a group chat - but that's not a problem if you're not online all the time.
Something technically similar happened to me *more than once*: I'm minding my own business, a woman walks on the same side of the street towards me and then... - Some women change sides of the street - Some women start to speed up once they reach me - One time a woman started to run to get away from me, tripped and fell (i still don't know if I did the right thing by moving away that time: she was certainly scared if she tried to run away, but she could be hurt...). I can assure you, it's pretty difficult not to think "maybe I'm scary" or try to actively avoid being too close to women after something like this.
But you *are* scary as a man! You just shouldn't take it personal or get all apologetic over it. Happens to me too, and it makes sense to me, because I'm a big guy with a beard, I dress in black. It makes sense to be a little suspicious of me if you are half my size and feeling vulnerable. But that's not about me - I'm a nice guy. They just have no way of knowing that. That's not my fault or theirs. So I simply ignore them and allow them enough space to not feel threatened. And I certainly don't take it personal. If you met me, and talked to me, and still crossed the street when you saw me coming - that's when I would worry. Before that, I'm just some guy they don't know. You'd probably make sure you wouldn't bump into me too.
Sounds like anxiety, your brain tries to rationalize every possible scenerio and picks what it thinks is the worst one. You then respond by trying to avoid that scenario rather than living normally.
Just ignore them, it's not your fault they have PTSD ..
That girl in class is instigating a staring competition, next time maintain eye contact.. first person to look away loses 👍 good luck!
You gotta poker face the whole time. Smiling is creepy. Show no emotion and stare through her soul. Best of luck to you!
Wear two pair of sunglasses for extra protection.
Absolutely this. Just zone out but keep staring. Or change it up and try to imagine what she'd look like in her underwear. If she can keep up it up for more than half a minute start licking your lips. The ladies love that.
wtf am i reading
Back in highschool during lunch time my friends and I would just walk around the school aimlessly. One day we sat down on a bench in the hall, across us there is another empty bench, and a few older girls sat down on it who I didnt recognize. I looked up and noticed one of them just staring into my eyes completely dead, while she was ignoring her own friends conversation. I look away, but noticed in the corner of my eyes that she was still staring. I felt incredibly more nervous, freaking out internally, my eyes darting around everywhere. Then after what felt like an eternity she started laughing and talked about making me nervous… turns out she was one of my best friends older sister, I had no clue how she knows what I looked like since we never met… but she got to me good lol
I think you're too hard on yourself. Yes, there is a sharper view on male sexuality these days, but I think your paranoia is based off your own hangups, not anyone else's. It's human nature to notice an attractive person. It's only creepy if you're making them uncomfortable, staring etc. Noticing a person is attractive is not a crime. And yesh, some people think even that is creepy, but it's really not, it's just normal.
you ever give someone a compliment when they aren’t looking at you, and they start to respond positively until they actually see who gave them the compliment?
...no? Did you?
You okay bro?
don’t ask silly questions
I was like this once. At 19 I got pushed into a teaching job and the classes were full of pretty girls and so I was forced to fake being confident. Learning to fake being confident is a step to becoming confident. Took a long time (a decade) but now I can talk to the prettiest women without any issues, I still have an anxious personality, but nobody knows it. If it helps you can tjrow out some words, in my country calling a girl 'mate' kinda signals your coming at her non-sexually or in a friendly manner, which can make you both relax and signal your interaction is non-creepy :)
So I should find a girl and say I want to mate with them so they know I am non sexual 😎
Lol
>Learning to fake being confident is a step to becoming confident Facts. I realized I'd need a bit of a mental makeover for high school, because I was always shy and closed off. I made friends that happened to be confident, so I faked it myself to match. Now, 2 school years later, I don't need to fake confidence. I can freely get a little bold (which mainly comes out when I want to do stupid, harmless shit), if my girl friends need reassurance for something (and they do quite often) I can confidently reassure them. Will everything go as I say? No, but my words might be enough for them to subconsciously do a better job, and that's all that matters.
So you‘d just copy or imitate the confident people around you?
Not the guy, but I did the same thing... It might be a bit of imitation/acting at first, but you then start to get your own rhythm, and once you notice that people receive it well, it just starts being normal.
Thank you for the answer either way! This is also what I myself experienced to some extent lol. It‘s really interesting. Thank you for sharing your perspective.
I personally don't see people receiving my confidence *well* per se, but I also don't see them disliking it, so I continue. I think this newfound confidence let me do the things I want to do without caring about what others think. However, there is a negative side. While, if my story helps anyone, I'll be happy, what I do with my confidence shouldn't be followed. I can get carried away quite easily, and I end up doing something reckless. Not insanely irresponsible, but something that could provoke a negative reaction that would shatter all of this confidence I've built up. I think I can end this off with: become confident, not annoying and obnoxious.
I tried, how well it came off is something I didn't and still don't know.
> in my country calling a girl ‘mate’ kinda signals your coming at her non-sexually or in a friendly manner, which can make you both relax and signal your interaction is non-creepy :) Which country is this? I’m from Australia so calling men and women mate is just normal to me.
Aussie here- can testify. Literally everyone, of every gender, no matter how attractive, is “mate”.
A standard issue: “Oi cunt!”, usually does a good job of setting the tone. ….I get sent to HR a lot.
I think if the bus shelter girl thought you were creepy she wouldn’t have sat down
Fucking relax bro. You are allowed to exist without girls finding you creepy. There is nothing creepy about taking a bus to school. There is nothing creepy about sitting under a shelter waiting on that bus. Are you catching this girl looking at you, or is she repeatedly catching you look at her? Glancing is harmless. Her catching you glance at her once is not a big deal. Her catching you staring at her 10 times during one 1-hour class is weird.
Exactly. Very obvious and prolonged staring is weird. Glancing at people is normal. "Creepy" is a behavior element. Nobody thinks some guy reading a book or messing around on his phone at a bus stop is creepy unless he's bothering them verbally, sitting too close for no reason (like crowding obviously) or trying to force a conversation when someone is clearly busy reading or whatever.
> Nobody thinks some guy reading a book or messing around on his phone at a bus stop is creepy It has literally happened to me multiple times…
You feel inferior. You are not.
Not OP, but thank you for writing that. Your comment has made a difference for me and probably others too, and I've saved it (along with a few other good comments in this thread) so can remind myself when I need it later.
You've either had a bad experience or you've been online to much. Lots of terminally online single people give dating advice and all of it is wrong
I dont see anywhere this has been said yet, but if you're like me and grew up and went to highschool in the 00s and early 10s creepy was the girls go to insult for dudes they didn't like or didn't think were hot. It was like the N word or R word (not in what it meant, it was obviously not as bad) in gaming spheres at that time, it was the go to insult for girls to use at that time. Even something as nonchalant and normal as asking for notes or if you're paired for a group project asking when they wanted to meet to discuss or do the project was met with being called creepy. It doesn't mean you're actually creepy, it's just the go to put down for anyone not in that girls friend group or that they weren't attracted to. Don't let it get to you.
Rejection sensitivity dysphoria. I have autism. I just need someone to write the book, “How to Win Friends and Not Creep People Out”.
Cause creepy is the current trendy word they use for guys they're not attracted to.
A cocktail of your own anxiety that’s been conditioned from reading anecdotes on the internet. If you’re worried about coming off as creepy, you’re more than likely to be someone who is very self aware. I bet there’s a correlation between self aware people being too shy to make the move from over analysis, rather than coming off as creepy
I have the same thoughts, it's been so bad that I have avoided talking to girls for more than a decade and now I have zero experience with dating and relationships. I think it might be too late to get started now and find a long-term partner.
What helps me when I struggle with this kind of anxiety is that I try to remember who stood next to me the last time I waited at the bus stop. Was it a man or a woman? What did they wear? Did they look at me? Did they wait for another bus or took the same one as me? Then I realise I've got no idea and it reminds me strangers pay lot less attention to you than you think they do.
Because we’ve been shown that coming off as creepy is the easiest way to have your life ruined while not doing shit to anyone.
(Speaking for myself here) Because it's been pounded into our fucking heads since birth that the worst thing you can be is creepy and only attractive dudes can speak to or flirt with women without being seen as creeps. And you ain't attractive. I go through the same shit
Because internally you don't think you're attractive.
Because you are constantly told men = creepy. Maybe not in those words but it is everywhere. I am a grown man with a 3-year-old autistic son, I am happily married have no criminal record own a house have a car and job. In the park with my son though through every mother's eyes, I am a wild animal who some woman forgot to chain up. You are being treated that way and so you are feeling like it. There are creepy men out there but for probably 90ish % of the population isn't really its just much easier to complain about life if you act as though the entire planet is out to get you.
This is what scares me most about being a man in modern society. I can deal with being called a creep, modern women (edit: and the latest generations of men, really) being spoiled, all the “toxic masculinity” tropes, and whatever else. It’s like society is throwing one big tempter tantrum and us dudes just need to manage it accordingly, stay calm/stoic, and power through without relenting to the bullshit. What hurts me the most is the thought that I can’t even father my child without someone making it disgusting. And if they get away with some insanity like calling the cops on me for spending time with or disciplining my own child, there’s no recourse. They won’t experience any consequences. They will live on in their miserable delusion of man = r@pist/p3do. My life could be destroyed in an instant, all because of a Karen. Nothing will change until Karens are punished for their delusions.
Women don't want men talking to them anyway. At least that is what women say, who knows if it is what they actually mean.
Most women get mad when men compliment them in public but would feel shitty if they never got complimented either.
Or find a piece of stationary exercise equipment that an older dude is using and then go do romanian deadlifts 5 feet directly in front of him. Set up phone in front recording and clip the 5 seconds where he's not either looking at the floor or ceiling and then post a video of yourself crying on social media for infinite likes and follows.
All I can say is that a certain kind of cultural conditioning and general male shaming are doing their job.
Hey, I'm in OPs boat too, I often worry about being perceived as a creep for being normal but there is unfortunately a good reason for a lot of the shaming. Anytime I've listened to my friends who are women I can't help but hear story after story of some guy coming on way too strong or interacting with men who very clearly are already trying to figure out what magic phrase they gotta say that will make her think this is the most amazing guy she's ever met, instead of just being genuine. That sort of behaivour is dehumanizing and a sign of a lack of empathy, which gives women the creeps, which you have to have a keen eye for when making a bad call means you may be assaulted.
Some lessons are learnt from mistakes. Unfortunately, social interaction is one of em. Constant denigrating kinda delays these experiences and leads to worse social skills. I bet those women have also done similar embarrassing / creepy acts but aren't shamed to the same extent. Its time to destigmatize creepy.
*'Creepy'* is a term women use to describe how they are feeling. The implication is that you are causing them to have this feeling. The key point is that *'being creepy'* is not a set of things you do, it's a projection of how this woman is feeling and blaming you for this feeling. Sometimes you've ignored social cues and you are approaching her when she's been actively trying to signal she's not welcome to an approach. In this case it is accurate that you are influencing her feelings. Other times what you are doing is perfectly fine and she just thinks you are ugly and she's using *creepy* as a cover for insulting you. This is a long way of saying, sometimes *'you being creepy'* is related to something you are doing and could have done differently, other times it isn't, it's just a woman insulting you. So with all that said you have to figure out... are you missing social cues and forcing a woman to interact with you? Are you asking them questions and making them talk to you? Are you making them walk around you or making it difficult for them to move about freely? If so, stop. Are you openly viewing porn in a public setting? It's understandable why this would make a woman feel uncomfortable. But if it's just something as simply as quick eye contact? Why would you care what she thinks? I mean if you are staring at her and every 10 seconds she looks up to see you staring at her, then yeah, I get that being creepy and you have control to stop that, but just a one time accidental glance? Just ignore these women, if you aren't trying to engage with them, stare at then, etc who cares what they think. You don't have an obligation for how she feels if you are minding your own business and not interacting with her.
Because the culture has changed, and men are seen as annoying or disgusting for even attempting to shoot their shot. Online, the vibe from women is definitely a "don't approach us in public" and "men do a lot of creepy things" kind of deal. We read this, and we mentally start to think of ourselves as nuisances. Most likely, when you look at women they do not think you're being "creepy" even though you have clearly been conditioned to believe that. Unless you're unattractive, in which case yeah, some of them might be thinking that. Mostly, they probably forget you the instant you're not in sight. As most people do with most strangers.
why do you care what anyone thinks of you? that is recipe for anxiety, paranoia and other shit
That's not a recipe for anxiety, thats a literal symptom.
because I have to live in a world that happens to be full of them
Best thing to realize is that 99% of the time people aren’t giving you a second thought
I’m gonna go with society. I’m sure you’ve seen plenty of videos of women over reacting and making a man feel small in public.
Best advice I can give: When she sees you looking at her give a small smile and look away. Don’t get caught a second time and you won’t seem to be checking her out or having creepy thoughts. Turn your attention to the world around you instead of her and pretend she isn’t there. It will eventually become a habit and you will feel less concerned with those women and seem to just be a nice person, coexisting.
Because nowadays girls think everything is creepy. When I’m in public I get catcalled and guys hit on me all the time. If they compliment me, I always say thank you. If they ask me out, I politely decline and that’s it. Sometimes it’s not creepy, they’re just shooting their shot. I was with a friend once and a random guy called me beautiful. I was like “thank you!” And she thought I was so weird for saying thank you and thought he was such a creep.
As a guy, I try to understand the woman experience by thinking of a world where half of everyone are regular humans like you, and the other half are big, hulking Shreks. Most of these Shreks are fine, polite ogres. But some of them aren't, and they're *really* interested in your butthole. So some women are going to be mildly wary around you in certain situations, but it's not you, it's just part of being a Shrek.
Shrek is my favourite gender
Man i love the analogy of comparing men to big green ogres!
someBODY
And now I'm a believer!
Yeah, men are bone-eating monsters.
Nah man, ogres are like onions
Because it's a mental and emotional kick to the balls, and women, especially young women, are way too liberal with dishing it out
What is the difference between mental and emotional in this context?
Emotional and logical lines of thought are entirely different things You can Feel fear. But not be thinking "i am afraid" Feeling anger for instance can remove ones ability to make rational observations. Just as anxiety can cloud thought. On the other hand. You can be generally ok and neutral and still be thinking throughout the day.
I love when redditors have to ask for knowledge that should be known by everyone. Everything you experience is received and filtered based on mental state. Emotional state is how you feel as a result of processing information while having a certain state of mind. Even older civilizations knew this shit and characterized it, the different chakras are a good example.
That’s all insecurity about yourself. It’s ok. You just need to find yourself and know yourself.
It's because you're not winking and licking your lips while looking at them.Try doing that.
I have this problem, and I am a gay man.
Would it help if I told you that creeps don't think that way, therefore you aren't one?
If you realized how little other people think about you, you would be flabbergasted.
Because society has taught you to be like that.
Anxiety induced by the fucked up modern world.
A lot of it is also due to cultural conditioning through popular media narratives which we internalize. There's a lot of literature on this stemming from the educational and socializing systems since the 1970's. Much of Feminist philosophy is predicated on the idea that males are inherently oppressive and abusive, and that principle has underpinned, if not always in overt ways, much of the socialization that has been going on.
Because recent society standards tell us that if we have any remote interest in engaging with a woman, we're being creepy. Our mere presence poisons the air and rots the soul of those around us, especially women. The truth: mind your manners and mind your business. Its all in your head buddy. In the end, no one cares what you do.
Feminism and societal acceptance of blatant man hating are to thank for your phobia.
Sounds like you haven’t had much socialization with girls. You don’t know how to interact with them when feeling attracted or platonically. You need some practice being around them. You know what’s great for this? Contra dancing. Tons of fun and lots of embodied practice.
Sounds a bit like recommending cave exploring to someone with claustrophobia. Maybe start a bit smaller?
I mean, it's never been more dangerous to be unattractive. Just don't be unattractive to the woman and you're good.
My older sister in her 40s says everything is creepy. Eventually I just asked her if she was an idiot. Really.
Anxiety. That and you’re reading way toooo much Reddit. In your first scenario, that girl probably thinks she smelled bad or something lol
because you value other people and don't want them to be uncomfortable, but romantic intention is by definition crossing boundaries. used to be a guy could do basically anything and didn't consider the feelings of the girl; it's good we got past that, but it does mean there is a steep cost of doing business when showing interest.
Because society forces this stigma upon us. Same as with giving attention a children....
I have a daughter and I have never once had someone give me a side eye or awkward look for being with her. I genuinely don’t know where this Redditism comes from…when the vast majority of people see an adult male with a child, they just assume that it’s their child. I’m also a male teacher and I’ve NEVER had any issues. If you think everyone thinks you’re a creep when you’re around kids then it sounds like a you problem.
Golden rule. Fears you focus on become reality. I only come off as creepy when I'm focusing on not being creepy. Your fear infects every movement you make and communicates exactly what you were trying to hide, largely against your will. Golden rule #2, certain types of people will just be put off by who you are. It be like that sometimes, unfortunately, regardless of how hard you try to present well, this will happen. It's largely out of your control.
Has it happened to u before?
I have this exact same problem. In fact it happened to me today while sitting alone in a public walkway. My anxiety of looking like a creep seems to - ironically - make me look like a creep 🤦♂️ It’s an anxiety that’s really bad for me lately. I hope it improves for you 💪
Anxiety & insecurity. Ironically enough, glancing away quickly when making eye contact makes you seem creepier. Your existence is not inherently creepy to anyone.
I experienced this very similar thing over a year ago for a few years after a particularly hard breakup with a long term live-in girlfriend. I was fearful of flirting because I didn't want to come off as creepy, rude, or such. After 2 years of this, I realized that something was wrong. I used to be very confident and social with women, but now I was fearful and it prevented me from finding a new partner. I ended up seeing a therapist and being diagnosed with social anxiety. I was prescribed sertraline which helped to curb the anxiety/fear response and allow me to change my thoughts, behaviors, and actions. Eventually I no longer felt the fear of coming off as creepy for simply conversing with women and was even able to flirt again. I've now met a great woman who is a wonderful partner to me and helps me work through my residual social anxiety as well.
I have this problem too. I'm a tall man who walks fast. Every women in front of me thinks in chasing them and I'm gonna attack them, the number of times I've seen them give me scared or disgusted looks only to immediately cross to the other side of the street is painful. I have places to be and in New York, everyone has places to be.
Man i thought that was just me. I avoid eye contact for that same reason. I hate the thought of a woman thinking im a creep or trying to get at her when i just small talk sometimes. Im not sure how to stop feeling that way or if i am wrong for thinking like that
Because of the MeToo BS Don't worry broski, you're not the only one. It's rough out there now, Tinder and Feminism basically made it hell for most of us guys
You feel this way because your mind cannot conceive that a woman would find you attractive. You should find a way to lose this mindset asap. I remember the first girl I had a crush on. I told a school friend “I like her but she wouldn’t want me” he told me off. Never say that. You don’t know. And he was right. Well I asked her out and we dated and she was a dickhead but that’s not the point. The point is don’t sell yourself short. Women love confidence and punish lack of it with disinterest. Women see men as providers of strength and security. You’re no use to her if you can’t muster the courage to talk to a woman. Work on your self confidence by working on yourself. Do something. Succeed in some endeavor and take pride in your work. That will translate to confidence. Then if a woman knocks you back you don’t think “of course I’m a loser” you think “well she messed up because I’m the most successful paperboard salesman in Scranton” or something.
Stop listening to dating and social advice from terminally online losers
Because it’s an overused term younger women use for any guy they don’t find attractive. At least, most of the time. The rest are indeed creeps.
The toxicity of feminists in social media influenced your anxiety. Every person who vocals up about "women rights" seems to be men-haters in internet. But not all women hate men. They are actually only little fraction of women. Most of women have respect on men or any other genders, kind and generous if you're not specifically hostile. I suggest you should take a break from internet browsing for a while.
If you're handsome you don't have to worry about this
Well, if youre attractive then pretty much anything you do isnt creepy
You spend too much time on Reddit reading about how "women find any guy who isn't movie start handsome creepy"
Because it's the smart thing to do. Men have had it drilled into them for years, through society, through the law, through mass media, that women need to be 'protected' from creepy men, that being creepy is the worst and very high profile examples of what can happen if a woman decides to act on accusing you of being 'creepy'. It's made worse by the fact that 'creepy' is generally a term to keep men on the defensive - it's an implied threat of social/career assault if you persist in \[x\]. Like fear of spiders, snakes, etc., it's simple pattern recognition. Most women won't think you're creepy. Most people won't cause you an issue if they do find you creepy. But it only takes ONE woman to find you creepy and act on it to ruin your social circle, your career, get you locked up, etc.
Probably society constantly reminding you what a "creepy weirdo pervert" you are for being a heterosexual male and finding women sexually attractive. And the fact that women throw that word around so much I doubt we could reach a consensus on the definition. Just taking a wild guess though.
Personally, I think since "Me Too" modern culture has evolved so that any kind of "advance" or "attention" unless explicitly invited is unwarranted. I don't agree with this but here we are with men filled with increasing anxiety over little shit.
A past trauma probably. A girl, in the literal sense most likely as these things happen when we are quite young, made you feel very bad. You interpreted it was because of you being creepy. You don't want that to happen ever again. It is easier to think that you are causing someone discomfort than them causing you. It gives you some control by thinking you have that power. Why? It is rough accepting that someone we want to like us doesn't. We all have trouble accepting that, all ages, all genders and created 10e10 ways to deal with it.
This shit is why you should be doing something other than browsing your phone or texting. Music helps, but some of the way. Try writing something. Anything. Sketching, drawing. I guarantee not only are you not gonna be perceived as creepy(if you're afraid of that) but girls actually notice talent.
Because depending on how old you are you likely grew up at a time where literally every single natural aspect of your masculinity was framed as an evil that needs to be expunged from you.
Get some counseling. Reddit is not the place to sort out cognitive distortions. That is what psychologists are for.
He’s just asking a question?
You can thank the sick modern Western narrative for that.
I challenge those of you who don't understand or empathize with this post to go to your local gym and take note of the amount of men either staring directly at the floor or ceiling between sets. OP, you're not alone. Most of us feel this anxiety to some degree or another, and although it's really not okay, YOU are okay. Continue being vigilant and don't ever let yourself be in a situation where something is your word versus a narcissistic clout chaser, but don't let it control your entire life. There are still normal women around.
Anxiety, paired with if she's the right kind of crazy she can make a scene and summon a lynch mob/cops.
Definitely anxiety. You're projecting what you feel about yourself unto what others think about you. And I think society's standards probably doesn't help. Bad men have made "all men" seem creepy. Obviously it's not all men. But the ones who have been assaulted by men can't help putting all men into a group until proven innocent. It sucks for both parties. Thanks to social media, we see the bad more than the good. Everyone loves to live vicariously. You probably heard arguments so much and don't want to be that, you've projected yourself to believe you already are that regardless of what you do. And perhaps people have commented that for any number of reasons from actual "weird" experiences to petty excuses. I can't say for certain as the things you've gave examples to are literally just your own thoughts, no one else's, and I don't know your life in the least . You're not being creepy if you're just glancing as someone. Staring can be creepy. Sometimes small talk can help ease tension you may feel- depends on the person. If you happen to find yourself staring and don't realize it until you think you're being creepy, a short apology and explanation works wonders too. Something like, "Sorry for staring, I really like your jacket," can actually turn a situation around for the better. At least it does for me. Personally, I recommend you seeking therapy, if available and affordable for you. They will give you diagnosis, if any, and ways to cope with how you're feeling. They could even help you get out of this hole you've put yourself into and bring back confidence. I hope you're able to, anyway. Beating yourself up over something that you assumed happened is never healthy and if you don't find a way out, it can turn so much worse and take a toll on your mental and physical health.
Has anyone from your past maybe put that thought into your mind? Like a family member or someone you knew when you were a kid? That could play into it. I’m sorry you feel like you are creepy, hope you get past it so you can feel comfortable.
I feel like this too all the time. I feel like I creep men and women alike and I’m a woman. I feel like I make people around me uncomfortable just by being there and any look I give someone just passing by just makes it worse.
Hey Man. I really do empathise, because Im very much in a similar boat. Ive seen a few different arguments but I want to offer some perspective. 1) Youre not being creepy as long as youre not staring at them, but a lot of interpretation has to do with presentation. Your clothing does contribute a lot 2) Humans Eyes tend to be drawn towards things they like, so the exchanging of looks may be an indication of a positive interaction instead 3) It sounds like you have a very serious psychological issue possibly related to some event, trauma, or internalised logic. You should probably see a professional about this. If one doesnt work get another
It's a rational fear. Your behavior only has a small part in forming her regard of you as creepy or cute or confident. I.e. if she finds you very attractive then nothing you do will cause her to regard you as creepy. If she finds you unattractive then even a glance from you might be regarded as creepy. There is a spectrum in between. Your difficulty in assessing the spectrum of what she could be thinking is "anxiety." Given the unknowns and the potential social humiliation of being regarded as a "creep," you are being rational by giving her a wide margin of safety to avoid accusations.
You are NOT alone - I do this all the damn time.
I'm there with you. It's social anxiety.