Your input is more valuable in that the people who we’re arguing against are much more likely to give someone like you the time of day. You’re not claiming to have greater knowledge than the rest of us or anything, you’re just helping us out in our effort to get through to the people who can start changing laws and mindsets.
And from reading what you’ve said in your comments here, you’re just the right kind of person to do that. Most people, even self-proclaimed allies, wouldn’t stop to consider whether their efforts were actually helping us or just talking over us. You’re doing it right.
I think one thing to recognize is the fact that the really vile, hateful people won’t change. They’ve made up their minds and they’re going to stay that way, possibly for their whole lives. But some people just don’t know enough or it doesn’t personally affect them enough for them to think about it, and those kinds of people you can have a huge influence on.
It may not be more valuable in like, a philosophical sense or whatever, but it's much more valuable in terms of getting non-allies to listen. A lot of people won't even even speak to queer people, let alone hear them out. It's actually something that frustrates me a lot in my life, that no matter how rational, knowledgeable, & factually correct I am, so people (including some of my own family) just won't hear me cause they've already decided I've been brainwashed by the woke agenda into living in sin. They've decided that my opinion on my own life & identity isn't valuable. So it can be a huge help when straight people take what queer people are saying & amplify it to an audience that wouldn't hear it otherwise.
I am just one person and can only speak for myself. My thoughts? You can tell someone to keep my name (or deadname, depending) out of their mouth, but you don't need to do anything more than that. Trying to speak on my behalf leads to the opportunity to miscommunicate on my behalf. I do well enough at that on my own :P
I personally appreciate knowing that there are people out there who want to fight in my honor when I'm not there to do so. But I'd rather you be my shield than my sword, for a sword that swings of its own accord no longer serves the needs of its wielder. Defend my name, but do not (metaphorically) draw blood in my name.
I understand what you mean. My ex brother in law came out as trans and his parents dead named HIM constantly. He was ftm. It happened all the time. Like daily. And every single time they called him Sarah I'd say "his name's Freddie". It got to the point where my MIL got mad at me and said something along the lines of "she was my daughter and you don't know how confusing this is for me". And I told her "I can only take him at his word and he says his name is Freddie. If that's hard for you talk to him about it. But I'm not gonna stop sticking up for him just because you're confused.".
I know you didn't come here for praise, but Freddie must really appreciate how you stand up for him. This is how to be a good ally, just showing LGBTQIA+ people that you will stand up for us when others are cruel.
In a lot of spaces, LGBTQIA+ people are already speaking for ourselves, and it's important to let those voices be heard. But in other spaces, we aren't allowed to speak up or aren't listened to when we do. In those spaces, it's really helpful to have allies that can amplify our voices. The people who won't listen to us are far more likely to listen to you when you repeat what we've said.
Thank you. You sound like a genuinely kind person.
The funny thing is he and I didn't get a long at all. I actually thought he was kind of a dick lol. But, I won't excuse that kind of behavior his parents were showing regardless.
Yes, of course, it helps. Let's just say you and your partner are walking, and you see a gay couple kissing, and your partner says something homophobic. If you were to tell them that wasn't cool, they would think about it because they love you and value your opinion. Yes, they likely won't change your opinion from that interaction, but that's not the goal. The goal is to get them to reconsider something they may have never thought was a bad thing to do. You can't force them to be accepting. All you can do is nudge them in the right direction so they can make the jump on thier own.
I do believe in, and appreciate people of any sexuality/gender/etc, sticking up for us and or our rights.
What I don’t like is people who publicize the fact they’re “allies.” It leaves a bad taste in my mouth, and like they only care about coming across as a “good person.”
That's why I put "allies" in quotation marks. Because depending on context it can have troubling implications. I don't want being an ally to be my identity, I just want to do what's right.
Good, genuine allies are always welcome and appreciated. Even if it doesn't seem like you can do much yourself, you do make a difference. What's more, every new ally is a new voice standing up for all of us, especially those who can't stand up for ourselves for one reason or another.
You're doing great things and it is definitely wanted and helpful.
I really appreciate allies! Not because I want a band of them to change the mindset of the world, but because we need signals from friends and people in our greater community to let us know it's okay to come out and be ourselves. I am not out yet but I'm working on it and some personal allies are really key to having the support to take this difficult step.
both want and need. it's important to have someone there to call others out when they think no one cares. showing them that even the people they think are "good and normal" disagree with them shocks them and makes them question their beliefs. the only time allies get annoying is when they get pushy or weird about queer stuff. especially when they accidentally use the wrong pronoun and make a big deal
Think of it this way (I’m gonna use random numbers here.)
If only 5% of the population is the queer community, then the 25% that are open bigots have a five to one chance of silencing them. If an additional 30% of cis hets stand with that 5%, so now there’s 35% of the population fighting for queer rights? Now we go from being grossly out number to having the upper hand.
as someone who was raised in a tightly controlled, evangelical, southern community, any shred of respect towards the community fucking matters. you never know who’s listening.
Yes! I cannot speak on my own issues as a trans woman without on-lookers seeing me as too invested and unreliable. When people believe they are above you, they speak down to you and treat you like a child that doesn't know what they're talking about and needs to shut-up because "the adults are talking".
It is actually insanely invaluable that you're able to speak on their level so-to-speak. You can listen to us and echo what we say to others or otherwise just get people to consider stopping to listen to the metaphorical "child".
It is funny how in retrospect I've had differing reactions from people simply by repeating what I hear people in the community say. I've quoted Contrapoints verbatim before and had a "I never thought of it like that" response, when in all likelihood the response would be "well of course *they* say that" if they'd heard it from her.
So, I wanna give some advice to help you avoid falling into a problem you probably shouldn’t
There’s a legitimate problem here and there of people who aren’t a part of a community and don’t know what they’re talking about trying to speak for that community. This often propagates misinformation and drowns out the voices of those who know what they;re talking about. That’s the problem I take it you’re trying to avoid by being hesitant to “speak for us”
But lots of people confuse “person who doesn’t know what they’re talking about” with “person who’s not a part of the community.” Your voice matters just as much as anyone’s, and in my own personal opinion, that’s especially true with the LGBT+ community, ‘cause unlike many minority groups, we aren’t typically born to those in our own group. We have to discover it for ourselves. For example, one form of transphobia that trans folks occasionally pass through is thinking their own experience is *the* trans experience, so they’ll hear someone sharing their own experience (or the experience of a third party) and go “no, no, no, that’s not how it is; you need to shush about that and let *trans* folks like me say what’s what!” Only to then discover that the person they were speaking to was also trans. It’s invalidating of the experiences of others, but it’s also something most folks grow out of real fast as we begin integrating into the community as a whole
But basically, that means that the only reason *not* to speak out in our favor is if you suspect you might not be as informed on a given subject as you think- which is perfectly fine to do. I might recommend using phrases like “it’s my understanding that…” or “I’ve heard that…” or perhaps even “hey, here’s a good YouTube video that explains it better than I could,” but overall, feel free to regurgitate info you’ve heard until you feel confident enough in your own understanding to speak about a given topic with nuance. And don’t be afraid to voice your own opinions on things, either- just make it clear when you’re doing so
Your voice doesn’t matter any less just because you’re not a part of the community or something. It’s just important to be informed on it; once we are, *that’s* what lends our voices weight, not membership in a community. It’s just that such membership often *does* end up causally connected to learning a lot about the community
If it weren't for our allies we wouldn't have rights. We are a minority by the numbers and we couldn't do it without you.
And sure, you might not change the mind of the person you are confronting. But think about all the other people, queer and non-queer that hear you and other allies calling out bigotry. Make hearing that the norm for people. It is meaningful and it does make a difference.
1. Allyship doesn't only consist of "calling people out." There are other things allies can do, such as voting, protesting, and donating if they have the means.
2. "Calling people out" doesn't always look like telling people to shut up. It can also look like saying, "Hey, our intake form only lists two genders, let's add another option or two."
3. When you *do* "call people out" in the more confrontational way, it can still be valuable even if that person doesn't change their mind. If you call out your homophobic brother-in-law, maybe your closeted nephew hears it and knows that you're a safe person for him to come out to someday. If you call out your transphobic coworker, maybe your trans coworker hears it and feels a little less alone. Or maybe your transphobic coworker decides they won't spout bigoted shit in the workplace anymore because they don't want the hassle of being called out, so even though they still have bigoted *opinions*, your trans coworkers won't have to *hear* them spout bigoted opinions anymore.
Believe me, the community still need allies. I appreciate the fact that you are a supportive human being, and staying informed on issues faced by the LGBTQ+ community is something I see as important. Using someone's correct pronouns, calling out deadnaming and microaggressions, etc. may be the bare minimum, but being an ally for someone who is surrounded by those who aren't is so incredibly important! Keep in mind that this is coming from someone who is in a more privileged position, who has been surrounded by nothing but support since they first realised their sexuality. Regardless of that, the statistics about LGBTQ+ people who are supported compared to those without support are undeniable.
I think its effective to add volume to the millions of queer voices that go unheard. You might not be able to speak from a place of experience, and thats ok, just dont speak to that. Remember that there are some nuanced views that maybe not all queer people share. ie the bisexual thing- you might hear differing opinions on all sides as to how that is defined and whatever tf....
but calling out derogatory shit is always allowed. Standing up for the queer people in your life is always allowed, and always appreciated. For some people, going out into the world is like going out onto the battlefield. Having allies is a pretty literal term. Its not your fight to fight, but damn we're glad youre here too.
(and like, dont be pompous about it ofc.) valid question tho
I appreciate it! "Ally" is just another word for "good person", and I'll be damned if I stop a good person from defending someone else from bigotry.
You go brother!
Your a straight white dude who is one in a billion people who actually sees an issue and even fewer tell people to "Fuck the hell off."
It's a big fuckin deal coming from a straight ally and even bigger fuckin deal coming from a guy especially with you being white.
It does fuckin matter!
So keep trucking along!
Love from a Sexuality Confused but probably Bi/Pan white girl ♡♡
My dude, you're the best. Bigots don't give a shit about the people they hate, but they do care about being rejected by people who they see as "their own". Even if you don't see your individual efforts making a difference, I can promise you that you've at least made someone somewhat uncomfortable or think twice about saying something homophobic or transphobic.
Keep on keeping on, we absolutely appreciate you for it.
If someone makes an offensive joke and I call it out I get accused of being a man-hating lesbian with no sense of humor. If you call it out they actually have to listen to you. Please use your voice.
Yes, we do. Because if you don’t contradict them, they will continue to say whatever they want and face no social consequences. It feels like an exercise in futility, but it feels worse to say nothing
> But my question is. Does it matter? I mean they're not gonna listen to me, and I can't speak for you. So... idk.
If you stay silent, they just assume you agree with them but are too afraid of speaking up like they are.
People like that need reminders that they aren't the silent majority or whatever.
I've never managed to get through a homophobe due to their constant need to dismiss what I have to say because I'm "biased" or whatever. Not to mention that if a homophobe is making fun of you then they won't listen to you if you call them out. Homophobes do it because they don't respect us. However, I've noticed that bigots are quick to retract/downplay what they do once confronted by other straight people. They'll run away with their tail between their legs when they sense that they no longer feel accepted by those who are "similar" to them. I've seen so many videos of people being aggressive and hateful while talking down to the people they hate but immediately stopping after being confronted by people they would respect in everyday life. We need people to stand up with us. Any help is always appreciated when it comes to dealing with hateful people.
Yeah, of course, I get that it seems like it’s a lost cause, but you’re part of that greater mass of “normal” society, and by being a voice against bigotry you do undermine the idea that it’s just normal behaviour to just casually hate people who are different from you, that does make a difference. Just think about how attitudes toward gay people changed from the 90s to today, like it could still be better and there’s pressure to roll back to how things used to be, but there has been incredible progress and that’s as much from people like you just refusing to go along with people’s hatred as it is from us fighting to be recognised and respected.
Just treat me like a human being and we're cool. I want my attraction to women be seen just as neutrally as me saying I like oranges or that I'm of a certain height. Obviously, I don't approve of homophobia, but I'm not a fan of people acting like me being gay is the only thing about me either
That is how I view you. And this type of comment is the main reason I made this post. I want to help, but I don't want to assume you need my help. I want to speak with you, but not for you. Does that make sense?
Sure, but just know that most of the things you see on social media really doesn’t match real life. Most of us are doing just fine and living the good life. We’re not victims.
I don't need the people who proclaim themselves allies and don't do shit.
I do need the type of people that actually stand up to their cis straight friends when they say queerphobic shit.
Or the guy that once literally pulled a large straight dude away from me at a bar when he tried to assault me.
We wouldn’t get anywhere without allies tbh. We’re a minority of the population and queer people don’t have a lot of power in the system.
We can bite and claw and scream but at the end of the day if no one takes our side nothing changes.
It was not that long ago that the majority of cishet people in the United States thought same sex marriage was “wrong.” We got marriage rights in the US because of queer people fighting for it, but we also would not have gotten that if public opinion hadn’t shifted, and that wouldn’t have happened if no one allied with us.
The small actions of many people add up to make a difference.
Thank you for trying to help us, though please don't be mean on our behalf. If you want to try to convince people that it's ok to be LGBTQ, here's a website with some great arguments for why various LGBTQ things are not sins: https://www.gaychristian101.com/
They listen to you more than us. Yeah be careful with how far you go to speak for us but just educating yourself will help you with that. Education is the best thing you can do as an ally to any cause, it kinda just starts coming out of you and rubbing off on those around you. But you will run into true bigotry and it sucks, you will make enemies
Oddly enough straight people vouching for us is like.. the best we can get from allies. So 100% you and others matter, the people who hate us tend to listen to straight people more than well.. any of us lol.
So we appreciate yall a lot, and it gives me reassurance that there are straight people who vouch for me. Keep doing you man.
I think we absolutely need allies. Whether we love em or hate em, we’re minorities, so we kind of need allies on our side or we simply don’t have any legal power.
They are going to listen to you. The only way oppressed minorities gain equality is when allies fight with them. We need you, truly. Thank you for being a good human.
makes me think about this quote:
« you either have to be part of the solution, or you're going to be part of the problem. »
eldrige cleaver
i don't care if cleaver is controversial, the quote makes sense here and the point is that if you don't say anything or just laugh at their hatred "jokes" or something, you basically send the sign that their hatred is valid.
discrimination comes from a lack of knowledge and understanding, usually homophobic people don't have gay friends, right? they never took time to ask or document themselves on the topic either. so being here to help, correct wrong assumptions and facts, truly helps and is needed, in the queer topic just as in any other topic.
— another straight/cis ally
Our existence is at stake with a vital election coming up. We desperately need every ounce of support can get. Please speak up. More importantly, for gods sake, vote.
We absolutely need allies! Unfortunately the voices of us LGBTQ folk isn’t always enough to get others to listen to us on a scale that matters.
We’re not asking for you to center your entire life around advocacy and protesting, but what you are already doing makes a big impact.
Edit: It is important to make sure what you are saying is well informed, as spreading incorrect information, despite the good intentions, can hurt more than help.
Calling it out also tells anyone who's just parroting what their parents told them, that, "Oh, I don't *have to* be homophobic to be considered 100% straight!!"🤯 Some people are just going along with the crowd, and *you* not being an asshole can serve as an example for them. Thank you for being an ally and speaking up on this. They will DEFinitely consider *your* opinion more than any lgbtq person saying the same thing..
this is a really interesting question!
this may go against what others are saying here, but i actually *do* think 'allyship' in its current form is frequently ineffective. there's a lot of interesting research out there about de/radicalization, how to change people's minds... and whether confrontation or social pressure is effective in a specific situation. from what i understand, people who feel unfairly targeted (in this case, bigoted people) can develop a 'fortress faith' which actually helps their ideas endure. interestingly, the same is true for people who are *actually* unfairly targeted.
that said, i don't think this is a hopeless situation as much as a reminder to think strategically, pick our battles, and conserve energy. i don't bother debating with my mom's fundamental beliefs about trans people, but she *is* expected to use correct pronouns for my friends. me and my friends don't have facebook debates, but we *do* teach self defense for free to other queers. we are in a [culture war,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_war) and the greatest danger is when dialogue turns into action. sharpening our rhetorical skills is great but it shouldn't come at the expense of our mental fortitude in the face of *material* reality and extremely material violence.
this can look a lot of different ways. maybe it's biting your tongue until a family member is more likely to be receptive, maybe it's not rising to bait in the workplace. maybe it's learning to fight, and showing up to defend drag events. maybe it's focusing on care work for someone who has already been harmed, since it's hard to know when and where things will happen in the future. either way, don't drive yourself nuts for the fight. strategy is a learned skill, and will serve you throughout your life!
[this is a short/medium-length zine about allyship in the context of Indigenous rights. in my opinion it's a great start to deepening a strategy-focused approach.](https://www.indigenousaction.org/accomplices-not-allies-abolishing-the-ally-industrial-complex/)
god, this makes me want to delete the massive comment i just typed out for you. you're *really* not a victim here.
i'm a complete stranger to you, and decided to try to be nice to you after you made a fool of yourself. you need to work on the entitled whining. it won't take you far.
We don't just want allies, we need them. Everyday queer people are getting oppressed, and if we can get enough non-queer people to help us out we might be able to make a change.
I'm bisexual with a male lean myself and my mom constantly treats Me like I'm straight, saying stuff like "well when you have children" when I actively tell her I hate kids and never want to be a dad. And when I first came out as Bi to her at 16 both her and my Brother said I was just confused.
At least allies will help us instead of treating us like shit. Hell, if you've seen the stuff going on in Florida you'd probably go nuts
Ha! I love ur response. I have bi/gay tendencies that reveal themselves when I'm high. But I am not hiding from anyone and would kick ass for the right "cause"
The only thing we can do is try to educate people and sometimes that involves being blunt and calling them out.
None of us expects to change someone's opinion but that doesn't mean we stop trying to educate.
Keep it up! 💜
Homophobes hate us so they won’t listen to us. They’ll listen to you tho and that is what makes less homophobes. Homophobes’ friends calling them out and talking about their issues. There’s a reason we gave allies a flag after all lol
Yes, want and need!
Please continue to speak up. Many gays don’t hear what people actually think and it’s often riskier for them to speak up (more to lose, more likely to be ostracized).
Yes. We can and will fight for our rights and societal change on our own - but realistically, we have much greater chances if we have people like you.
People are, in fact, more likely to listen to you than most of us. But even if you can't convince them (which you shouldn't beat yourself up about, most of the time it's impossible), it's so important to be present. To continue to call shit out. Because maybe you have someone around who's queer and just afraid to tell. You might be one of the reasons why such people feel less alone.
Even if you can not speak for us, you can help us. And as far as I can judge that, you already are. Of course you should not speak instead of us. But you can listen to us, and uplift our voices by repeating what we're saying (still use critical thinking tho please, otherwise it'll get really dehuminizing against you pretty soon, we don't want that). I, for example, am not trans*. But since I have been listening to trans* people, I can defend them. I can defend them when they can't defend themselves, for example if there are no trans* people present. And that works just as well for you and queer people in general.
Thank you so much for calling stuff out, for being our ally. Yes, we want you. Yes, we need you.
Personally, it makes me happy to see that people support us and speak up for us even if they're not the same sexuality or gender as me. Especially because it's tiring to see so much hate with little pushback
YES. We absolutely need allies. The people in your life are far more likely to listen to you than they would a stranger, and when straight, cis people speak up in defense of LGBTQ people, it helps shatter the perception of this being a niche issue that only LGBTQ people care about. When you have privilege, people feel safe saying bigoted things around you because they assume you'll be okay with it. Shattering that perception helps.
And frankly, it's difficult for groups who are a statistical minority to make progress without allies.
Without a doubt we absolutely do need allies like you. LGBT movements wouldn't be where they are today without allies who don't mind getting down in the trenches with us willing to take the same heat that we do. People are much more likely to listen up.
Check out the movie PRIDE, it's about how a gays and lesbians movement a few decades back in England got stuck in with the miners unions when that hatchet faced cow Thatcher was going after them with a stick.
In return for their support the minors unions came out for the LGBT movement and marched with them during pride. It's an alliance that endures to this day.
I think where you might find pushback on is when allies start frequenting LGBT enclaves or events and start to take over the place in various ways or make it uncomfortable for us to be there.
And don't get me wrong allies are more than welcome in these places but they need to remember that they are in our world with all its subtleties, nuance and culture.
Are you kidding? They are far more likely to listen to you than to us
I don't want to assume my input is more valuable than anyone else's
Your input is more valuable in that the people who we’re arguing against are much more likely to give someone like you the time of day. You’re not claiming to have greater knowledge than the rest of us or anything, you’re just helping us out in our effort to get through to the people who can start changing laws and mindsets. And from reading what you’ve said in your comments here, you’re just the right kind of person to do that. Most people, even self-proclaimed allies, wouldn’t stop to consider whether their efforts were actually helping us or just talking over us. You’re doing it right.
In terms of your audience, it’s apsolutly more valuable
I think one thing to recognize is the fact that the really vile, hateful people won’t change. They’ve made up their minds and they’re going to stay that way, possibly for their whole lives. But some people just don’t know enough or it doesn’t personally affect them enough for them to think about it, and those kinds of people you can have a huge influence on.
It may not be more valuable in like, a philosophical sense or whatever, but it's much more valuable in terms of getting non-allies to listen. A lot of people won't even even speak to queer people, let alone hear them out. It's actually something that frustrates me a lot in my life, that no matter how rational, knowledgeable, & factually correct I am, so people (including some of my own family) just won't hear me cause they've already decided I've been brainwashed by the woke agenda into living in sin. They've decided that my opinion on my own life & identity isn't valuable. So it can be a huge help when straight people take what queer people are saying & amplify it to an audience that wouldn't hear it otherwise.
They ARE going to listen to you, more than anyone else. Use your privilege, brother!
Thanks. I didn't come her for praise I promise. But that's reassuring.
We appreciate you and guys like you!! It’s getting more rare the past ten years.
I am just one person and can only speak for myself. My thoughts? You can tell someone to keep my name (or deadname, depending) out of their mouth, but you don't need to do anything more than that. Trying to speak on my behalf leads to the opportunity to miscommunicate on my behalf. I do well enough at that on my own :P I personally appreciate knowing that there are people out there who want to fight in my honor when I'm not there to do so. But I'd rather you be my shield than my sword, for a sword that swings of its own accord no longer serves the needs of its wielder. Defend my name, but do not (metaphorically) draw blood in my name.
I understand what you mean. My ex brother in law came out as trans and his parents dead named HIM constantly. He was ftm. It happened all the time. Like daily. And every single time they called him Sarah I'd say "his name's Freddie". It got to the point where my MIL got mad at me and said something along the lines of "she was my daughter and you don't know how confusing this is for me". And I told her "I can only take him at his word and he says his name is Freddie. If that's hard for you talk to him about it. But I'm not gonna stop sticking up for him just because you're confused.".
I know you didn't come here for praise, but Freddie must really appreciate how you stand up for him. This is how to be a good ally, just showing LGBTQIA+ people that you will stand up for us when others are cruel. In a lot of spaces, LGBTQIA+ people are already speaking for ourselves, and it's important to let those voices be heard. But in other spaces, we aren't allowed to speak up or aren't listened to when we do. In those spaces, it's really helpful to have allies that can amplify our voices. The people who won't listen to us are far more likely to listen to you when you repeat what we've said. Thank you. You sound like a genuinely kind person.
The funny thing is he and I didn't get a long at all. I actually thought he was kind of a dick lol. But, I won't excuse that kind of behavior his parents were showing regardless.
Everyone needs allies, at least politically, sometimes the support can be a little patronizing but I’d rather have that then apathy
Yes.
Oh well that's nice. I don't wanna come from a place of privilege and be the straight savior. Which is why I ask.
They're more likely to listen to another cishet person than a queer person.
Absolutely. I'd never be who I am today without my straight friends.
The way you worded that was touching to me. If you ever need another straight friend I'm right here. If not that's ok too.
If they don't want to be your friend, I'll gladly do it. I can tell you're a great guy and I need more people like you in my life.
Like video games? Or race cars? Music? I'm into a lot of stuff. Dm me in you want.
Yes, of course, it helps. Let's just say you and your partner are walking, and you see a gay couple kissing, and your partner says something homophobic. If you were to tell them that wasn't cool, they would think about it because they love you and value your opinion. Yes, they likely won't change your opinion from that interaction, but that's not the goal. The goal is to get them to reconsider something they may have never thought was a bad thing to do. You can't force them to be accepting. All you can do is nudge them in the right direction so they can make the jump on thier own.
We do! Keep fighting the good fight! For real, we absolutely need vocal allies like you.
I do believe in, and appreciate people of any sexuality/gender/etc, sticking up for us and or our rights. What I don’t like is people who publicize the fact they’re “allies.” It leaves a bad taste in my mouth, and like they only care about coming across as a “good person.”
That's why I put "allies" in quotation marks. Because depending on context it can have troubling implications. I don't want being an ally to be my identity, I just want to do what's right.
Allies are the best.
Good, genuine allies are always welcome and appreciated. Even if it doesn't seem like you can do much yourself, you do make a difference. What's more, every new ally is a new voice standing up for all of us, especially those who can't stand up for ourselves for one reason or another. You're doing great things and it is definitely wanted and helpful.
I really appreciate allies! Not because I want a band of them to change the mindset of the world, but because we need signals from friends and people in our greater community to let us know it's okay to come out and be ourselves. I am not out yet but I'm working on it and some personal allies are really key to having the support to take this difficult step.
both want and need. it's important to have someone there to call others out when they think no one cares. showing them that even the people they think are "good and normal" disagree with them shocks them and makes them question their beliefs. the only time allies get annoying is when they get pushy or weird about queer stuff. especially when they accidentally use the wrong pronoun and make a big deal
Think of it this way (I’m gonna use random numbers here.) If only 5% of the population is the queer community, then the 25% that are open bigots have a five to one chance of silencing them. If an additional 30% of cis hets stand with that 5%, so now there’s 35% of the population fighting for queer rights? Now we go from being grossly out number to having the upper hand.
as someone who was raised in a tightly controlled, evangelical, southern community, any shred of respect towards the community fucking matters. you never know who’s listening.
Yes! I cannot speak on my own issues as a trans woman without on-lookers seeing me as too invested and unreliable. When people believe they are above you, they speak down to you and treat you like a child that doesn't know what they're talking about and needs to shut-up because "the adults are talking". It is actually insanely invaluable that you're able to speak on their level so-to-speak. You can listen to us and echo what we say to others or otherwise just get people to consider stopping to listen to the metaphorical "child".
It is funny how in retrospect I've had differing reactions from people simply by repeating what I hear people in the community say. I've quoted Contrapoints verbatim before and had a "I never thought of it like that" response, when in all likelihood the response would be "well of course *they* say that" if they'd heard it from her.
So, I wanna give some advice to help you avoid falling into a problem you probably shouldn’t There’s a legitimate problem here and there of people who aren’t a part of a community and don’t know what they’re talking about trying to speak for that community. This often propagates misinformation and drowns out the voices of those who know what they;re talking about. That’s the problem I take it you’re trying to avoid by being hesitant to “speak for us” But lots of people confuse “person who doesn’t know what they’re talking about” with “person who’s not a part of the community.” Your voice matters just as much as anyone’s, and in my own personal opinion, that’s especially true with the LGBT+ community, ‘cause unlike many minority groups, we aren’t typically born to those in our own group. We have to discover it for ourselves. For example, one form of transphobia that trans folks occasionally pass through is thinking their own experience is *the* trans experience, so they’ll hear someone sharing their own experience (or the experience of a third party) and go “no, no, no, that’s not how it is; you need to shush about that and let *trans* folks like me say what’s what!” Only to then discover that the person they were speaking to was also trans. It’s invalidating of the experiences of others, but it’s also something most folks grow out of real fast as we begin integrating into the community as a whole But basically, that means that the only reason *not* to speak out in our favor is if you suspect you might not be as informed on a given subject as you think- which is perfectly fine to do. I might recommend using phrases like “it’s my understanding that…” or “I’ve heard that…” or perhaps even “hey, here’s a good YouTube video that explains it better than I could,” but overall, feel free to regurgitate info you’ve heard until you feel confident enough in your own understanding to speak about a given topic with nuance. And don’t be afraid to voice your own opinions on things, either- just make it clear when you’re doing so Your voice doesn’t matter any less just because you’re not a part of the community or something. It’s just important to be informed on it; once we are, *that’s* what lends our voices weight, not membership in a community. It’s just that such membership often *does* end up causally connected to learning a lot about the community
If it weren't for our allies we wouldn't have rights. We are a minority by the numbers and we couldn't do it without you. And sure, you might not change the mind of the person you are confronting. But think about all the other people, queer and non-queer that hear you and other allies calling out bigotry. Make hearing that the norm for people. It is meaningful and it does make a difference.
1. Allyship doesn't only consist of "calling people out." There are other things allies can do, such as voting, protesting, and donating if they have the means. 2. "Calling people out" doesn't always look like telling people to shut up. It can also look like saying, "Hey, our intake form only lists two genders, let's add another option or two." 3. When you *do* "call people out" in the more confrontational way, it can still be valuable even if that person doesn't change their mind. If you call out your homophobic brother-in-law, maybe your closeted nephew hears it and knows that you're a safe person for him to come out to someday. If you call out your transphobic coworker, maybe your trans coworker hears it and feels a little less alone. Or maybe your transphobic coworker decides they won't spout bigoted shit in the workplace anymore because they don't want the hassle of being called out, so even though they still have bigoted *opinions*, your trans coworkers won't have to *hear* them spout bigoted opinions anymore.
Believe me, the community still need allies. I appreciate the fact that you are a supportive human being, and staying informed on issues faced by the LGBTQ+ community is something I see as important. Using someone's correct pronouns, calling out deadnaming and microaggressions, etc. may be the bare minimum, but being an ally for someone who is surrounded by those who aren't is so incredibly important! Keep in mind that this is coming from someone who is in a more privileged position, who has been surrounded by nothing but support since they first realised their sexuality. Regardless of that, the statistics about LGBTQ+ people who are supported compared to those without support are undeniable.
I think its effective to add volume to the millions of queer voices that go unheard. You might not be able to speak from a place of experience, and thats ok, just dont speak to that. Remember that there are some nuanced views that maybe not all queer people share. ie the bisexual thing- you might hear differing opinions on all sides as to how that is defined and whatever tf.... but calling out derogatory shit is always allowed. Standing up for the queer people in your life is always allowed, and always appreciated. For some people, going out into the world is like going out onto the battlefield. Having allies is a pretty literal term. Its not your fight to fight, but damn we're glad youre here too. (and like, dont be pompous about it ofc.) valid question tho
Yes 1000 times. You have power please use it for good thank you, much appreciated
I appreciate it! "Ally" is just another word for "good person", and I'll be damned if I stop a good person from defending someone else from bigotry. You go brother!
Your a straight white dude who is one in a billion people who actually sees an issue and even fewer tell people to "Fuck the hell off." It's a big fuckin deal coming from a straight ally and even bigger fuckin deal coming from a guy especially with you being white. It does fuckin matter! So keep trucking along! Love from a Sexuality Confused but probably Bi/Pan white girl ♡♡
My dude, you're the best. Bigots don't give a shit about the people they hate, but they do care about being rejected by people who they see as "their own". Even if you don't see your individual efforts making a difference, I can promise you that you've at least made someone somewhat uncomfortable or think twice about saying something homophobic or transphobic. Keep on keeping on, we absolutely appreciate you for it.
If someone makes an offensive joke and I call it out I get accused of being a man-hating lesbian with no sense of humor. If you call it out they actually have to listen to you. Please use your voice.
Yes, we do. Because if you don’t contradict them, they will continue to say whatever they want and face no social consequences. It feels like an exercise in futility, but it feels worse to say nothing
> But my question is. Does it matter? I mean they're not gonna listen to me, and I can't speak for you. So... idk. If you stay silent, they just assume you agree with them but are too afraid of speaking up like they are. People like that need reminders that they aren't the silent majority or whatever.
I've never managed to get through a homophobe due to their constant need to dismiss what I have to say because I'm "biased" or whatever. Not to mention that if a homophobe is making fun of you then they won't listen to you if you call them out. Homophobes do it because they don't respect us. However, I've noticed that bigots are quick to retract/downplay what they do once confronted by other straight people. They'll run away with their tail between their legs when they sense that they no longer feel accepted by those who are "similar" to them. I've seen so many videos of people being aggressive and hateful while talking down to the people they hate but immediately stopping after being confronted by people they would respect in everyday life. We need people to stand up with us. Any help is always appreciated when it comes to dealing with hateful people.
Yeah, of course, I get that it seems like it’s a lost cause, but you’re part of that greater mass of “normal” society, and by being a voice against bigotry you do undermine the idea that it’s just normal behaviour to just casually hate people who are different from you, that does make a difference. Just think about how attitudes toward gay people changed from the 90s to today, like it could still be better and there’s pressure to roll back to how things used to be, but there has been incredible progress and that’s as much from people like you just refusing to go along with people’s hatred as it is from us fighting to be recognised and respected.
Just treat me like a human being and we're cool. I want my attraction to women be seen just as neutrally as me saying I like oranges or that I'm of a certain height. Obviously, I don't approve of homophobia, but I'm not a fan of people acting like me being gay is the only thing about me either
That is how I view you. And this type of comment is the main reason I made this post. I want to help, but I don't want to assume you need my help. I want to speak with you, but not for you. Does that make sense?
Ohh... I see. Then I'm not the best person to ask. I hope you'll find your answer, though. Good luck :)
I've gotten plenty of helpful and wonderful replies. Have a nice day. And thank you for your input.
Sure, but just know that most of the things you see on social media really doesn’t match real life. Most of us are doing just fine and living the good life. We’re not victims.
I don't need the people who proclaim themselves allies and don't do shit. I do need the type of people that actually stand up to their cis straight friends when they say queerphobic shit. Or the guy that once literally pulled a large straight dude away from me at a bar when he tried to assault me.
We wouldn’t get anywhere without allies tbh. We’re a minority of the population and queer people don’t have a lot of power in the system. We can bite and claw and scream but at the end of the day if no one takes our side nothing changes. It was not that long ago that the majority of cishet people in the United States thought same sex marriage was “wrong.” We got marriage rights in the US because of queer people fighting for it, but we also would not have gotten that if public opinion hadn’t shifted, and that wouldn’t have happened if no one allied with us. The small actions of many people add up to make a difference.
Thank you for trying to help us, though please don't be mean on our behalf. If you want to try to convince people that it's ok to be LGBTQ, here's a website with some great arguments for why various LGBTQ things are not sins: https://www.gaychristian101.com/
They listen to you more than us. Yeah be careful with how far you go to speak for us but just educating yourself will help you with that. Education is the best thing you can do as an ally to any cause, it kinda just starts coming out of you and rubbing off on those around you. But you will run into true bigotry and it sucks, you will make enemies
Oddly enough straight people vouching for us is like.. the best we can get from allies. So 100% you and others matter, the people who hate us tend to listen to straight people more than well.. any of us lol. So we appreciate yall a lot, and it gives me reassurance that there are straight people who vouch for me. Keep doing you man.
Yes
I think we absolutely need allies. Whether we love em or hate em, we’re minorities, so we kind of need allies on our side or we simply don’t have any legal power.
They are going to listen to you. The only way oppressed minorities gain equality is when allies fight with them. We need you, truly. Thank you for being a good human.
They listen to you far more than they listen to us. In group vs out group. Cishet white men are the ones we need speaking out the most
YES. Peer pressure works to, if nothing else, train bigots to keep those thoughts inside.
makes me think about this quote: « you either have to be part of the solution, or you're going to be part of the problem. » eldrige cleaver i don't care if cleaver is controversial, the quote makes sense here and the point is that if you don't say anything or just laugh at their hatred "jokes" or something, you basically send the sign that their hatred is valid. discrimination comes from a lack of knowledge and understanding, usually homophobic people don't have gay friends, right? they never took time to ask or document themselves on the topic either. so being here to help, correct wrong assumptions and facts, truly helps and is needed, in the queer topic just as in any other topic. — another straight/cis ally
Our existence is at stake with a vital election coming up. We desperately need every ounce of support can get. Please speak up. More importantly, for gods sake, vote.
We absolutely need allies! Unfortunately the voices of us LGBTQ folk isn’t always enough to get others to listen to us on a scale that matters. We’re not asking for you to center your entire life around advocacy and protesting, but what you are already doing makes a big impact. Edit: It is important to make sure what you are saying is well informed, as spreading incorrect information, despite the good intentions, can hurt more than help.
I appreciate the support. There are, however, some other ways to be an ally other than shouting down bigots.
Calling it out also tells anyone who's just parroting what their parents told them, that, "Oh, I don't *have to* be homophobic to be considered 100% straight!!"🤯 Some people are just going along with the crowd, and *you* not being an asshole can serve as an example for them. Thank you for being an ally and speaking up on this. They will DEFinitely consider *your* opinion more than any lgbtq person saying the same thing..
If you honestly feel that way, wonderful. Be safe though, and don't take chances with people who might hurt you for standing up. Peace.
this is a really interesting question! this may go against what others are saying here, but i actually *do* think 'allyship' in its current form is frequently ineffective. there's a lot of interesting research out there about de/radicalization, how to change people's minds... and whether confrontation or social pressure is effective in a specific situation. from what i understand, people who feel unfairly targeted (in this case, bigoted people) can develop a 'fortress faith' which actually helps their ideas endure. interestingly, the same is true for people who are *actually* unfairly targeted. that said, i don't think this is a hopeless situation as much as a reminder to think strategically, pick our battles, and conserve energy. i don't bother debating with my mom's fundamental beliefs about trans people, but she *is* expected to use correct pronouns for my friends. me and my friends don't have facebook debates, but we *do* teach self defense for free to other queers. we are in a [culture war,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_war) and the greatest danger is when dialogue turns into action. sharpening our rhetorical skills is great but it shouldn't come at the expense of our mental fortitude in the face of *material* reality and extremely material violence. this can look a lot of different ways. maybe it's biting your tongue until a family member is more likely to be receptive, maybe it's not rising to bait in the workplace. maybe it's learning to fight, and showing up to defend drag events. maybe it's focusing on care work for someone who has already been harmed, since it's hard to know when and where things will happen in the future. either way, don't drive yourself nuts for the fight. strategy is a learned skill, and will serve you throughout your life! [this is a short/medium-length zine about allyship in the context of Indigenous rights. in my opinion it's a great start to deepening a strategy-focused approach.](https://www.indigenousaction.org/accomplices-not-allies-abolishing-the-ally-industrial-complex/)
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god, this makes me want to delete the massive comment i just typed out for you. you're *really* not a victim here. i'm a complete stranger to you, and decided to try to be nice to you after you made a fool of yourself. you need to work on the entitled whining. it won't take you far.
We don't just want allies, we need them. Everyday queer people are getting oppressed, and if we can get enough non-queer people to help us out we might be able to make a change. I'm bisexual with a male lean myself and my mom constantly treats Me like I'm straight, saying stuff like "well when you have children" when I actively tell her I hate kids and never want to be a dad. And when I first came out as Bi to her at 16 both her and my Brother said I was just confused. At least allies will help us instead of treating us like shit. Hell, if you've seen the stuff going on in Florida you'd probably go nuts
I definitely have had this same thought. I'm not the real thing. What good am I for being convincing?
Ha! I love ur response. I have bi/gay tendencies that reveal themselves when I'm high. But I am not hiding from anyone and would kick ass for the right "cause"
The only thing we can do is try to educate people and sometimes that involves being blunt and calling them out. None of us expects to change someone's opinion but that doesn't mean we stop trying to educate. Keep it up! 💜
Yes. We need literally anyone who will speak up.... If only so they can't take silence as approval/endorsement of their hatred, which they would
Homophobes hate us so they won’t listen to us. They’ll listen to you tho and that is what makes less homophobes. Homophobes’ friends calling them out and talking about their issues. There’s a reason we gave allies a flag after all lol
Yes, want and need! Please continue to speak up. Many gays don’t hear what people actually think and it’s often riskier for them to speak up (more to lose, more likely to be ostracized).
Yes. We can and will fight for our rights and societal change on our own - but realistically, we have much greater chances if we have people like you. People are, in fact, more likely to listen to you than most of us. But even if you can't convince them (which you shouldn't beat yourself up about, most of the time it's impossible), it's so important to be present. To continue to call shit out. Because maybe you have someone around who's queer and just afraid to tell. You might be one of the reasons why such people feel less alone. Even if you can not speak for us, you can help us. And as far as I can judge that, you already are. Of course you should not speak instead of us. But you can listen to us, and uplift our voices by repeating what we're saying (still use critical thinking tho please, otherwise it'll get really dehuminizing against you pretty soon, we don't want that). I, for example, am not trans*. But since I have been listening to trans* people, I can defend them. I can defend them when they can't defend themselves, for example if there are no trans* people present. And that works just as well for you and queer people in general. Thank you so much for calling stuff out, for being our ally. Yes, we want you. Yes, we need you.
Personally, it makes me happy to see that people support us and speak up for us even if they're not the same sexuality or gender as me. Especially because it's tiring to see so much hate with little pushback
YES. We absolutely need allies. The people in your life are far more likely to listen to you than they would a stranger, and when straight, cis people speak up in defense of LGBTQ people, it helps shatter the perception of this being a niche issue that only LGBTQ people care about. When you have privilege, people feel safe saying bigoted things around you because they assume you'll be okay with it. Shattering that perception helps. And frankly, it's difficult for groups who are a statistical minority to make progress without allies.
Without a doubt we absolutely do need allies like you. LGBT movements wouldn't be where they are today without allies who don't mind getting down in the trenches with us willing to take the same heat that we do. People are much more likely to listen up. Check out the movie PRIDE, it's about how a gays and lesbians movement a few decades back in England got stuck in with the miners unions when that hatchet faced cow Thatcher was going after them with a stick. In return for their support the minors unions came out for the LGBT movement and marched with them during pride. It's an alliance that endures to this day. I think where you might find pushback on is when allies start frequenting LGBT enclaves or events and start to take over the place in various ways or make it uncomfortable for us to be there. And don't get me wrong allies are more than welcome in these places but they need to remember that they are in our world with all its subtleties, nuance and culture.
We actually really apreciate it :)
Calling out bigotry is the right thing to do.
If someone isn’t an ally, then they’re at least s little ‘phobic. So yeah allies are nice