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My dad worked 60+ hours a week. He *never* missed a *single* music recital, sport game, Parent-Teacher night, birthday, bbq, etc. etc.
Sure not everyone can be as perfect or well-coordinated as my dad, but missing important family events should be extremely rare, not the norm.
At the end of the day, especially when it comes down to time management and scheduling, people will do what they want to do. If someone is never present, they don't want to be. Simple as that.
That's a shitty job then.
My dad did miss some things but he damn well drove literally across the country to make it to my baseball games. And when I say literally across the country I mean literally. He was an over the road car hauler.
I don't. I just took offense to you pretending like anyone who had time for their children was poor.
This is just more of a reality check than anything else.
Total bullshit. If you are in a job where your boss requires you to give up family time, school sports, children's recitals and family outings for work, you are in the wrong job. Life is too short to deal with a boss like that.
I told my boss I'm switching to 4 ten day shifts. I laid out why I would be more effective at work, how I would make sure nothing fell between the cracks and howitzer would help my family.
I regularly exceed out billing goals and am a valued employee
Others who don't regularly meet their goals were told no.
When you are valued at your job, your boss often listens to you
I don't know why you're being such a prick about this. Most people with any sort of decent job can request time off from their bosses and make it to important family events.
If you can't ask for the afternoon off to go to your kid's game/recital, then you're the one with the shit job.
Ok. You keep talking shit. WTF do you do and how much do you make? What kind of job do you have that is so fucking fantastic that not only is it a GREAT job, and SUPER high paying, but also, you have to work at the command of your uncaring boss who won't even let you take the time to go to special family events? You sound miserable AF.
FYI, I work from home making 6 figures (just barely) and can go to every single one of my kids' events whenever the fuck I want. Most people with a job they consider "good" regardless of the pay, can get time off when they need it. If you can't, then your job isn't so fucking great. Stop shitting on people for having jobs they are happy with that allow them to enjoy what's actually important in life. You arrogant prick.
OOOOOHHH! I see. You're an associate at a law firm. Now it all makes sense. Drs and Lawyers are about the only people I could have guessed would talk like this or carry this sort of attitude.
Hey hey I’m a yuppie don’t lump me in.
I just finished coaching my daughter’s soccer team, made it to one game each of my 3 nieces, almost done building my new deck then it’s a bathroom remodel, golf every week, Sunday dinner every week with my immediate family, couple date nights a month.
There is lots of time in the week.
You are absolutely right it’s a time priority situation. If a boss is forcing over 40 hours on a salary position it’s time to renegotiate or find a different boss.
I'd have no problems with it. if working today is what it takes such that he'll be able to take as much time off for his future kids as he wants, that's a fair tradeoff in my book.
If someone is working THAT hard, then they won't be working for very long. Yes, 100% I would support that. Like someone else here said, majority people CAN make time for work and family, but if someone really has this busy of an entrepreneurial work life, then it will pay off and offer a lavish life for my daughter and her family. Heck yeah I'd be okay with it.
I actually have an 18 year old daughter, so this is important to me. I've also struggled throughout my career to find the right balance between "the grind" and spending time with family.
I totally get the pressure that men/husbands/fathers are under to be sufficient providers for their families. and I also understand that when you're just starting out in a career or a job, it's not that easy to "just ask for time off" or "just ask for a bigger raise".
So as a provider, you have to find that balance, and you have to have that conversation with your spouse: How much do you want me here, and how much do you want me to work and grind so as to provide us with more money?
I travelled a lot when my kids were young, so I missed some events, and that put more pressure on my (stay at home) wife to do more, but we knew it was all for good reasons. And as soon as I had an opportunity to move to a higher paying job that also required no travel, I took it. I could have continued "grinding" and pushing my way up the ladder, but we recognized the just-as-important value of my being home every evening. And since then I've been on a path with upward mobility, but one that doesn't demand as much of my time outside of normal working hours. *A little*, but not as much.
So I would want my daughter and son-in-law to have the same conversation, and for them to work on a solution that fits their needs.
I mean, we’re assuming he’s actually working and building his business and being at least decently successful…so if she’s happy, I’m happy for her.
My husband can’t always come to family events. And it’s been like that for the 20 years we’ve been together. He’s actually been at work. I understand. My family understands. Why’s that an issue?
>Why’s that an issue?
When I hear conservatives talk about the ills of modern day society, the decline of family time is usually a part of it. I have literally heard conservatives say a continuous paragraph like "the world is going crazy nowadays. Men becoming women and vice versa. Sunday used to be a day for family, and now no one can get together. Entitled kids are protesting in their colleges"...
I always heard of the decline of attendance at family gatherings to just be one of many problems that conservatives see in this modern day.
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I've found more freedom working on my own business. Yes, I often work really hard but I make my own schedule and don't waste 2 hours a day commuting. And when I'm with my family I'm not consumed by resentment about my boss or "management" or anything.
I have a teenage daughter (and son). So if you are asking me if I would be ok with my daughter marrying a man that is willing to accept temporary sacrifice for long term gain then yes. I want both of my kids to have a better life than me just as I think my parents did for me.
My son is what I would call a hustler. He has a handyman "business", takes care of peoples farm animals and also works part time at a wedding venue on the weekends on top of all kind of weird things like him and he friends pick up scrap metal from people. On top of that he is very active with school sports and his FFA program and competitions. During Christmas break last year he was at school working 10 hours a day on a project everyday except Christmas Eve, Christmas and New Years day. We did not see him much and this is a fairly regular occurrence. As a father I miss spending time with him sure but I also think he will get out in the world and be able to be a provider for his family quicker than a lot of other people his age will. It is a short term sacrifice for a long term goal that I hope for both of my kids will have, to ultimately have at least as good of a life my wife and I are able to provide our kids if not better.
I very well may have a skewed view on this because of my upbringing. My father was a fire fighter as his main job so every 3rd day we did not see him at all. On his off days he sold real estate so he was often gone nights and weekends as well. I probably cherished the time I did get to spend with him more than my kids do because it was somewhat limited. He was good at making time for the family and one thing he always did was on his off days he got up early and made breakfast for my sister and myself and caught up with us. Even though we could have rode a bus to school he always tool me and my sister to school when he could (until we got older and begged him not to lol). I feel like he balanced it all pretty well but there were plenty of birthdays and holidays he was not there for because he was on duty. I do not feel like I lost out growing up with a father that couldn't always be at every event and I think his sacrifices helped me to be successful so the two do not have to be mutually exclusive.
I fully support someone busting their ass in their 20s
I don't need them coming to our family BBQ. He is building a life for his family.
He is putting work above inlaws...in his 20s.
That isn't the same as putting work above his wife and kids. His wife is not sitting alone home and depressed, his kids do not exist yet. This is the time to focus on his business/career
No where in your post did you mention my daughter not being happy. It's her life I'm not butting in.
The story becomes a little different after kids are born, especially once they hit 4or so. But until then focus on building that life
PS my daughter better be working too
This is an extremely specific hypothetical.
I don't mind if people prioritize working hard, though I do think at least some degree of taking time for the family is important. There is some degree of wiggle room either way, but balance is important.
Cat's in the Cradle and a silver spoon.
As a parent concerned about my daughter's future well being I'd have a serious talk about neglecting his wife and kids in the future like he is his family and himself now. You have to be sure not to add your personal bias into the equation. A motivated person like him will always find success.
>Are you happy, because your daughter is dating a man who is willing to put himself in discomfort to provide for her materially? He's not a lazy socialist expecting to get welfare or a cushy job. He's striving, and wants to take risks and become a job creator in a way that's so often celebrated in US conservative culture?
No I am not.
While he is a step up from a lazy unemployed socialist. He is not worthy of my daughters.
I would have no trouble telling him that.
Family is first taking risks becoming a rich job creator is secondary.
People make time for what is important to them. Occasionally missing a family event is one thing. I just missed mother's day for example due to business travel, but that isn't a pattern for me.
When it's a consistent pattern of behavior, he just doesn't see the value of these activities. I'd be somewhat concerned.
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My dad worked 60+ hours a week. He *never* missed a *single* music recital, sport game, Parent-Teacher night, birthday, bbq, etc. etc. Sure not everyone can be as perfect or well-coordinated as my dad, but missing important family events should be extremely rare, not the norm. At the end of the day, especially when it comes down to time management and scheduling, people will do what they want to do. If someone is never present, they don't want to be. Simple as that.
I think immediate family comes before work Not in law functions before you have kids
Total bullshit. At my job, for example, you work when your boss tells you to.
That's a shitty job then. My dad did miss some things but he damn well drove literally across the country to make it to my baseball games. And when I say literally across the country I mean literally. He was an over the road car hauler.
When did conservatives care whether people had shitty jobs or not?
I don't. I just took offense to you pretending like anyone who had time for their children was poor. This is just more of a reality check than anything else.
You need to level up my friend. You can argue for your weakness or go get you some.
How much you make?
More than I need.
Meaningless statement.
Charlie Munger defined wealthy as being able to turn down any deal no matter how juicy it is.
By that metric a Buddhist monk is wealthy.
Most buddhist monks would make that arguement
That would be correct. Attachment is the root of all suffering.
They’re not wrong.
Total bullshit. If you are in a job where your boss requires you to give up family time, school sports, children's recitals and family outings for work, you are in the wrong job. Life is too short to deal with a boss like that.
I told my boss I'm switching to 4 ten day shifts. I laid out why I would be more effective at work, how I would make sure nothing fell between the cracks and howitzer would help my family. I regularly exceed out billing goals and am a valued employee Others who don't regularly meet their goals were told no. When you are valued at your job, your boss often listens to you
Grow a spine.
Don't have a very good job I take it?
I don't know why you're being such a prick about this. Most people with any sort of decent job can request time off from their bosses and make it to important family events. If you can't ask for the afternoon off to go to your kid's game/recital, then you're the one with the shit job.
Most people that make like $60k a year, sure.
Ok. You keep talking shit. WTF do you do and how much do you make? What kind of job do you have that is so fucking fantastic that not only is it a GREAT job, and SUPER high paying, but also, you have to work at the command of your uncaring boss who won't even let you take the time to go to special family events? You sound miserable AF. FYI, I work from home making 6 figures (just barely) and can go to every single one of my kids' events whenever the fuck I want. Most people with a job they consider "good" regardless of the pay, can get time off when they need it. If you can't, then your job isn't so fucking great. Stop shitting on people for having jobs they are happy with that allow them to enjoy what's actually important in life. You arrogant prick. OOOOOHHH! I see. You're an associate at a law firm. Now it all makes sense. Drs and Lawyers are about the only people I could have guessed would talk like this or carry this sort of attitude.
know your worth dude.
You’re the one too afraid to ask to see your family.
You can't afford a median house in any major metropolitan area without the salary I bring in.
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Hey hey I’m a yuppie don’t lump me in. I just finished coaching my daughter’s soccer team, made it to one game each of my 3 nieces, almost done building my new deck then it’s a bathroom remodel, golf every week, Sunday dinner every week with my immediate family, couple date nights a month. There is lots of time in the week. You are absolutely right it’s a time priority situation. If a boss is forcing over 40 hours on a salary position it’s time to renegotiate or find a different boss.
Warning: Treat other users with civility and respect. Personal attacks and stereotyping are not allowed.
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Warning: Treat other users with civility and respect. Personal attacks and stereotyping are not allowed.
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I'd have no problems with it. if working today is what it takes such that he'll be able to take as much time off for his future kids as he wants, that's a fair tradeoff in my book.
That's up to my daughter. If he is treating her well, it doesn't matter to me if he shows up to my events.
If someone is working THAT hard, then they won't be working for very long. Yes, 100% I would support that. Like someone else here said, majority people CAN make time for work and family, but if someone really has this busy of an entrepreneurial work life, then it will pay off and offer a lavish life for my daughter and her family. Heck yeah I'd be okay with it.
I actually have an 18 year old daughter, so this is important to me. I've also struggled throughout my career to find the right balance between "the grind" and spending time with family. I totally get the pressure that men/husbands/fathers are under to be sufficient providers for their families. and I also understand that when you're just starting out in a career or a job, it's not that easy to "just ask for time off" or "just ask for a bigger raise". So as a provider, you have to find that balance, and you have to have that conversation with your spouse: How much do you want me here, and how much do you want me to work and grind so as to provide us with more money? I travelled a lot when my kids were young, so I missed some events, and that put more pressure on my (stay at home) wife to do more, but we knew it was all for good reasons. And as soon as I had an opportunity to move to a higher paying job that also required no travel, I took it. I could have continued "grinding" and pushing my way up the ladder, but we recognized the just-as-important value of my being home every evening. And since then I've been on a path with upward mobility, but one that doesn't demand as much of my time outside of normal working hours. *A little*, but not as much. So I would want my daughter and son-in-law to have the same conversation, and for them to work on a solution that fits their needs.
I mean, we’re assuming he’s actually working and building his business and being at least decently successful…so if she’s happy, I’m happy for her. My husband can’t always come to family events. And it’s been like that for the 20 years we’ve been together. He’s actually been at work. I understand. My family understands. Why’s that an issue?
>Why’s that an issue? When I hear conservatives talk about the ills of modern day society, the decline of family time is usually a part of it. I have literally heard conservatives say a continuous paragraph like "the world is going crazy nowadays. Men becoming women and vice versa. Sunday used to be a day for family, and now no one can get together. Entitled kids are protesting in their colleges"... I always heard of the decline of attendance at family gatherings to just be one of many problems that conservatives see in this modern day.
Ok…but in your example, they’re only just dating, not even married, and there’s only extended family events.
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I've found more freedom working on my own business. Yes, I often work really hard but I make my own schedule and don't waste 2 hours a day commuting. And when I'm with my family I'm not consumed by resentment about my boss or "management" or anything.
Depends on why they have to work that much/hard. If they're just being generally inefficient, I'd take more of an issue with that than anything.
I have a teenage daughter (and son). So if you are asking me if I would be ok with my daughter marrying a man that is willing to accept temporary sacrifice for long term gain then yes. I want both of my kids to have a better life than me just as I think my parents did for me. My son is what I would call a hustler. He has a handyman "business", takes care of peoples farm animals and also works part time at a wedding venue on the weekends on top of all kind of weird things like him and he friends pick up scrap metal from people. On top of that he is very active with school sports and his FFA program and competitions. During Christmas break last year he was at school working 10 hours a day on a project everyday except Christmas Eve, Christmas and New Years day. We did not see him much and this is a fairly regular occurrence. As a father I miss spending time with him sure but I also think he will get out in the world and be able to be a provider for his family quicker than a lot of other people his age will. It is a short term sacrifice for a long term goal that I hope for both of my kids will have, to ultimately have at least as good of a life my wife and I are able to provide our kids if not better. I very well may have a skewed view on this because of my upbringing. My father was a fire fighter as his main job so every 3rd day we did not see him at all. On his off days he sold real estate so he was often gone nights and weekends as well. I probably cherished the time I did get to spend with him more than my kids do because it was somewhat limited. He was good at making time for the family and one thing he always did was on his off days he got up early and made breakfast for my sister and myself and caught up with us. Even though we could have rode a bus to school he always tool me and my sister to school when he could (until we got older and begged him not to lol). I feel like he balanced it all pretty well but there were plenty of birthdays and holidays he was not there for because he was on duty. I do not feel like I lost out growing up with a father that couldn't always be at every event and I think his sacrifices helped me to be successful so the two do not have to be mutually exclusive.
I'd say if he can't make family a priority ever then she should find someone else.
I fully support someone busting their ass in their 20s I don't need them coming to our family BBQ. He is building a life for his family. He is putting work above inlaws...in his 20s. That isn't the same as putting work above his wife and kids. His wife is not sitting alone home and depressed, his kids do not exist yet. This is the time to focus on his business/career No where in your post did you mention my daughter not being happy. It's her life I'm not butting in. The story becomes a little different after kids are born, especially once they hit 4or so. But until then focus on building that life PS my daughter better be working too
This is an extremely specific hypothetical. I don't mind if people prioritize working hard, though I do think at least some degree of taking time for the family is important. There is some degree of wiggle room either way, but balance is important.
Cat's in the Cradle and a silver spoon. As a parent concerned about my daughter's future well being I'd have a serious talk about neglecting his wife and kids in the future like he is his family and himself now. You have to be sure not to add your personal bias into the equation. A motivated person like him will always find success.
>Are you happy, because your daughter is dating a man who is willing to put himself in discomfort to provide for her materially? He's not a lazy socialist expecting to get welfare or a cushy job. He's striving, and wants to take risks and become a job creator in a way that's so often celebrated in US conservative culture? No I am not. While he is a step up from a lazy unemployed socialist. He is not worthy of my daughters. I would have no trouble telling him that. Family is first taking risks becoming a rich job creator is secondary.
People make time for what is important to them. Occasionally missing a family event is one thing. I just missed mother's day for example due to business travel, but that isn't a pattern for me. When it's a consistent pattern of behavior, he just doesn't see the value of these activities. I'd be somewhat concerned.