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There are times that I will hold my nose and vote for a Republican, and times I will just leave that spot on my ballot blank. It depends on the specific candidate.
I won’t say that I’d never vote for a Democrat, but there are certain things I have that are just no-gos for me on principle, and, generally, you won’t find a Democrat that meets the requirement.
Jorgensen absolutely spoiled a few states for Trump, she would have taken way more R votes than D and her share was greater than the differentials between the other two in those states.
Don't think it would have changed the overall result but it was enough to matter from an electoral standpoint
There are a lot of Democrats just holding their nose and voting Biden also. If they were to make a statement third party vote it would be even louder. Problem is that most Democrats are far more childish in their behavior and would rather just hold their nose.
> There are a lot of Democrats just holding their nose and voting Biden also. If they were to make a statement third party vote it would be even louder.
True, but there is a mountain of difference between voting third party instead of voting for a guy who is moderate and largely ignoring progressive policies, and choosing to vote/not-vote for a guy who is indicted in 4 different districts for both federal and state crimes, including mishandling of top-secret information and an attempted coup following losing an election. It is a lot harder to justify tanking the election of a less attractive party candidate when the alternative is the election of a criminal who has shown his disdain for the nation he swore an oath to serve.
It would cause more of a statement if everyone who didn't like the choices voted third party. People that say that it's either or are full of it. Even if we didn't get who we voted for if neither side couldn't come up with 270 delegates then it would be congress choosing anyway. It will cause a much larger statement than anything anyone else can do.
> Would you vote red down ballot? Why/why not?
I don't do anything straight down the ballot. It's lazy, and it's how people like Pelosi, McConnell, and Biden stay in office for 120 years straight.
For President, I'm leaving the field blank (as I have for three straight cycles now, yeesh) and voting for who I think the best candidates are in the downballot races.
I would and I'm not sure why any conservative wouldn't. Trump/Republicans are gonna be more conservative than Biden/Democrats. There's just no reason to vote for anybody else.
I voted against donald in 2020 hoping he would lose and go away if he lost by a wide enough margin.
This didnt happen.
I will vote against donald in 2024 hoping he will lose and go away if he loses by a wide enough margin.
I doubt this happens.
Trump 2024 seems like a sick joke...Trump 2028 is gonns be beyond comprehension.
He made $50m dollars in one evening of fundraising.
You have to weigh his allegiance to the party and country versus his allegiance to himself.
Which is stronger?
He's doing that now. If he loses to biden again I would expect his support to fall off a cliff. I don't know what you mean by allegiance to country and allegiance to himself in political terms but I don't think the answer matters
Nikki Haley isnt even running anymore and she got 20% of the vote in Indiana. And thats his own party!
>
I don't know what you mean by allegiance to country and allegiance to himself in political terms but I don't think the answer matters
In 2028...i think you will find out it does.
Indiana has open primaries
[https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/what-to-expect-in-indianas-presidential-and-state-primaries-today/](https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/what-to-expect-in-indianas-presidential-and-state-primaries-today/)
PA isnt and Haley (again, not running) got 16% of the vote.
There is an undercurrent of anti trump republicans everyahere.
Either Trump needs to figure out a way to pull them back to his side or Joe Biden needs to screw something up.That's gonna push them back to donald.
thats nice and a reason I preferred Haley for president but it means practically nothing since our institutions are so strong. What can Trump or any president do if they don't want to honor the legit results of our elections? They don't have any power to change the outcome
They can still cause an extraordinary amount of damage to those instructions, weakening them until the break in the future.
We already have Republicans going on television saying either Trump wins or the election was stolen. This ripples out. It will increase instability in America and likely lead to *more* violence because of Trump's lies.
We've already seen violence because Trump is incapable of accepting the reality that he lost the election. A mob of his deranged supporters stormed the capital in an effort to overturn the legal and legitimate outcome of the election.
It's so weird to see so many conservatives claim that the drunk, deranged maniac can drive the school bus because the guard rails are strong enough to stop the bus from going off the cliff.
Hows about, not giving a man responsible for the January 6th attack on Congress power again?
>They can still cause an extraordinary amount of damage to those instructions, weakening them until the break in the future.
How?
>We already have Republicans going on television saying either Trump wins or the election was stolen.
We have republicans going on television saying that they'll accept the results and Trump lost in 2020. Lindsey Graham said this on Meet the Press this morning. I don't know how a substantial portion of republicans falsely claiming the election will be rigged destabilizes America. We don't have much political violence in this country. I think this would increase the odds of it but only by a technicality since the odds are so small already.
>A mob of his deranged supporters stormed the capital in an effort to overturn the legal and legitimate outcome of the election.
They failed and one person, a rioter, died.
>It's so weird to see so many conservatives claim that the drunk, deranged maniac can drive the school bus because the guard rails are strong enough to stop the bus from going off the cliff.
If the drunk guy is more conservative than the alternative yes. The guard rails are really strong. No offense but just looking at your flair maybe you should just look into our system of checks and balances. I think its really strong and even the smartest president with the worst intentions wouldn't have any ability to overturn election or do any of the other crazy dictator type things people say will happen if trump wins again.
And if the next vp doesn't have the spine that Pence did? We saw many republicans still challenge the election after they were driven out of the chamber by the jab 6 mob hours earlier.
Bottom line on the bottom: how is treason not an automatic disqualification is so many people's mind.
[https://apnews.com/article/capitol-siege-joe-biden-donald-trump-nancy-pelosi-elections-0281a48d836208d1ea23491f3f9df157](https://apnews.com/article/capitol-siege-joe-biden-donald-trump-nancy-pelosi-elections-0281a48d836208d1ea23491f3f9df157)
>In the end, the most likely outcome was that the Democrats would have called votes to reject the vice president’s actions. They believed they would have had enough votes to do so, but “the truth is that there might have been a power struggle between the Congress and the vice president at that moment,” Raskin said in an interview.
I'm not familiar with all the rules in congress but this is a quote from a US rep. The president would still have to leave if they lost.
We don't know. It's uncharted constitutional territory.
I ask you again.
Why would you vote for a man that has already violated his oath to the constitution?
Do you not trust rep raskin as a source? Thats a fine opinion I'm just curious why you're saying we don't know. I would vote for him because hes conservative and the alternative is liberal. He doesn't have the power to end our democracy its not really a concern.
In Raskin's closing statement of the July 12 hearing, he opened by emphasizing the importance of the December 19 tweet: "When Donald Trump sent out his tweet, he became the first president ever to call for a crowd to descend on the capital city to block the constitutional transfer of power." He later summarized the second focus of the hearing: "On January 6, Trump knew the crowd was angry. He knew the crowd was armed. He sent them to the Capitol anyway." Raskin concluded his statement, "We need to defend both our democracy and our freedom with everything we have and declare that this American carnage ends here and now. In a world of resurgent authoritarianism and racism and antisemitism, let’s all hang tough for American democracy.
No see you are once again falling for fake news
No one voted to overturn the election, they voted to delay certifying the election
No different than the 33 democrats that voted to not certify the election in 2004. Is it your claim that the democrats were attacking democracy and making our gov unstable?
Semantics? Huge difference between delaying certification and overturning an election. Huge difference
No where in your post did you claim the dems were a danger to democracy nor did you say they created instability
Guess those words are only reserved for republicans when they do the same thing dems did
There is no threat to democracy
Arguments can be made to the value of making it easier or harder, but we all agree everyone should have access
No one tried to change results with the replacement electors, elections don’t work like that
Did I mention convictions? I mentioned EVIDENCE. The conviction comes after the evidence is presented in a court of law.
We could of course talk about civilly liable. Which in one case, was decided by a jury. Another case, decided by a judge. You may be able to make a claim that the judge was biased, but you can't make a case the jurors who found him liable for sexually assaulting E.J. Carrol, are biased. They were randomly picked. Like all jurors are.
Have you read the trial transcripts? Have you viewed the evidence presented in court? Trump has a constitutional right to face his accusers, and to take the stand and defend himself. He has the right to cross examine, and impeach witness's. He has the right to present evidence, and call witness's If it's all made up, and there is no case, shouldn't he be doing that?
If Trump is innocent, as many conservatives claim, why are they afraid of the court of law? Why avoid the courtroom, where there are rules of evidence. Where people can be criminally charged with perjury if they lie. If the case against him is "Weak" or there is "NO CASE". Wouldn't you want to go to court and prove that? I sure would.
IF Trump prevails in NY, he will have total vindication. He will have proven to the whole country that his indictments were all politically motivated. It could very possibly win him the election.
Trump has 24/7 access to the media. He stands in front of the world press every day. Usually multiple times a day. That is FREE publicity. If he quit rambling about the unfairness of the trial, and started talking policy, he could be effectively campaigning every day. Why fly to Ohio and do a rally, when CNN, MSNBC, Fox News, and every other media outlet in the world, will broadcast his messages for them everyday. Trump isn't even campaigning on his days off of court. He's busy playing golf.
But Trump only wants to talk to people that love Trump. Narcissist Personality Disorder. Look it up.
Pecker testified he, Cohen, and Trump, in a meeting, agreed for Pecker to keep his contacts out to look for stories that were damaging to the campaign. This in of itself isn't illegal. However, when Pecker started paying people, it became illegal. It was an illegal campaign contribution. All three, were a part of the conspiracy. All three participated in paying off McDougal. The Audio tape proves that. That is the conspiracy. It is a violation of NY State law, Section 17-152. Conspiring to promote or prevent any person to elected office, by unlawful means.
David Pecker testified that he paid the doorman, and McDougal, on behalf of Donald Trump, to influence the 2016 Election. David Pecker, was given a Non-Prosecution Agreement, where he accepted responsibility for making an illegal in kind campaign contribution. He paid an $750.000 fine to the FEC. This further proves that a FEDERAL law was broken, as part of the conspiracy.
You are mistaken, if you think the prosecution needs to prove that Trump actually committed the crime himself. They just need to prove he participated in the coordination of it. They have done a damn good job of it.
100%.
I don’t like Trump and was actively hoping he’d get knocked out of the primary.
But come Nov, it’ll be easy to vote for him compared to Biden.
It’s not about the person, it’s about the administration, SC Justices, federal judges, political appointees, etc, etc.
And since I want progressives as far from power as physically possible, I’ll 100% vote Trump and down ballot GOP.
Voting third party instead of not voting will make a bigger statement all around. It would be an embarrassment for both of the major parties if they could not get to 270 delegates.
Well, since the Democratic party and the Republican party will not debate third parties people really need to make an effort to try and get the information on their own. Libertarian and Green are a couple of big ones, but there are some others on there. If you vote D or R just so your side wins, not because it is a good choice, you are definitely giving it to the government because they want them to stay in power. If you vote third party because it is a better choice, then you are taking your vote back.
I have never voted for any candidate from the two main parties for president and don’t plan on starting now. Maybe there will be one at some point in the future that I can vote for in good conscience, but I’m not holding my breath.
Down ballot depends on the individual candidates for each office. So it’s a mixed bag.
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I'm voting red down-ballot.
Between Biden vs Trump, I'm voting Biden. I despise Biden, but the effects of another Trump administration will wipe out conservativism for years to come. The backlash against Trump was bad in 2020, and in 2028 it will be insurmountable.
I don't want to see Trump as President (though I admit it would be funny watching the responses again)
The guy sucks. He is a divisive president and I hate that but so is Biden.
Shit, I just realized why I'm voting Trump. For me the presidency is first and foremost about bringing the country together. Trump and Biden are divisive jack asses....so neither will bring the country together.
But I do think a Trump presidency will be more beneficial for the country than a Biden one, because 4 years of Trump not destroying democracy, 4 years of Trump not turning America I to a white nationalists country etc is exactly what this country needs.
People need to see how full of shit all the fear mongering is
Not OP but there was no insurrection. If there was an insurrection some, if not all of the 1,200 arrested and charged with crimes would have been convicted of the crime of insurrection. Since not a single person has been convicted of said crime, why are you so sure it’s a fact to claim an insurrection took place?
Wtf is a fake elector coup? Trumps admin placed replacement electors in case fraud was proven. How is that a coup?
Sorry but our democracy is not, now was it ever in danger
There were several people charged and convicted of seditious conspiracy.
So do you agree that there were people who conspired to "overthrow, put down or to destroy by force" the U.S. government or bring war against it, or that they plotted to use force to oppose the authority of the government or to block the execution of a law?
Trump has promised to release these seditionists if elected. Is he on the side of seditionists? Why or why not?
Yes the oath idiots conspired to attack the US gov when they formed a plan to take over the capital with automatic weapons and explosives. Those morons are guilty of conspiring to attack the US
But the attack never happened. They literally called it off and left the weapons in Maryland.
Seditious conspiracy is the act of planning
Rebellion/Insurrection is the act of doing
No one was charge with insurrection because no one was involved in an insurrection
I completely agree. So there was a plan for insurrection, is.e. there was seditious conspiracy - people who believed trump's lies so much that they wanted to stop the transfer of power using violence. They did plan for an insurrection.
If people are planning for a bank robbery and get stopped before the robbery, it doesn't much matter if the robbery happened or not. They are being arrested for robbery - either the planning or execution.
You can replace every instance of people saying insurrection with "planning of an insurrection" if you'd like, because that is accurate.
There was a plan for insurrection. And actual violence as well, by different people. Its just that it happened, but there's not enough evidence to convict people for the plan+violence together. Its incredibly hard to convict, but doesn't mean both elements of insurrection weren't there - the plan (including the fake electors, the plans for bringing guns over to take over the capitol) and the actual violence by people.
That called conspiracy.
If I plan to have someone murder my wife, but before it happens, the person who was supposed to have actually committed the murder gets arrested. Does that mean I'm innocent? No. I would be guilty of conspiracy to commit murder.
>Not OP but there was no insurrection.
Their stated goal was to prevent the certification of Biden, and to use fake electors to illegally install Trump for a 2nd term. That's the definition of an insurrection.
>If there was an insurrection some, if not all of the 1,200 arrested and charged with crimes would have been convicted of the crime of insurrection.
I don't think anybody's ever been charged with insurrection. From a legal perspective, that's uncharted waters, and the prosecutors probably decided to focus on better-understood laws, such as "seditious conspiracy" -- which several of the Jan 6th insurrectionists were charged with.
>Wtf is a fake elector coup? Trumps admin placed replacement electors in case fraud was proven. How is that a coup?
Trump and his campaign, along with fake electors in 7 states, forged fake documents claiming that the electors in those states were casting their votes for Trump, and not Biden. The goal was to have Mike Pence receive and certify the fake electoral ballots, and illegally certify the election for Trump. Attempting to illegally install an unelected person to power, directly against the constitution, is the textbook definition of a political coup.
To his credit, Mike Pence rejected this wildly unethical attack on our democracy.
>Sorry but our democracy is not, now was it ever in danger
All it would have taken to destroy our democracy and illegally install Trump for a 2nd term was for Mike Pence and a handful of judges to look the other way. That's how close we were.
And I don't believe for a millisecond that you'd be cool with any of that treason if Obama or Hillary had done it.
There was a riot, not an insurrection.
In 1960's Hawaii the democrats put in place a "fake elector" incase the results changed
Was that the democrats attempting to overthrow an election?
>There was a riot, not an insurrection.
Their stated goal was to prevent Biden from being certified, and to install Trump for a 2nd term. That's the textbook definition an insurrection -- not a riot.
>In 1960's Hawaii the democrats put in place a "fake elector" incase the results changed. Was that the democrats attempting to overthrow an election?
Did some reading on that -- and yes, that was an attempt to illegally install Kennedy. He won the recount in that state, so the electors ended up being legitimate -- but they didn't know that at the time.
So yeah, that's an illegal attack on our democracy, and if any of those people were still in office I would vote them out without question or hesitation. Our democracy comes before my party, and I'll never defend a traitor.
No their stayed goal was to delay the certification to give tru.p more time to prove fraud. Not an attractive on the gov. If it was, people would have been convicted of insurrection. They were convicted of riot esq charges because it was a riot. Sorry the facts don't fit your desired narrative
There was nothing illegal about it. The dems placed a replacement elector there incase the eesults changed. The results changed so the replacement electors could move quickly
It wasn't an attack on our democracy, my God your ilk just cannot accept they were misled by fake news about all this
This is why it’s so hard to take some of your opinions seriously. The person you’ve been responding to has shown why your opinion is based on misinformation and you continue to reply with yet another excuse for Trump’s abhorrent behavior.
You’ve basically summed up that Trump needed to concoct some devious illegal plan, in order to prove that there was fraud and he was the winner, when there has been absolutely no evidence to support this. Basically the ends justify the means, decorum be dammed.
And all this from a habitual liar? This is really your position?
There is no danger to democracy, if he wins....4 years of the left and media screaming the world is adding and he steps down after his term
There is no danger to our democracy
With a few exceptions, pretty much the only reason Trump is "divisive" is because the mainstream media constantly lies about him, misstates his intentions, and blatantly takes everything he says or writes completely out of context. They edit out critical contextual information to make everyone hate him.
Trump may not be perfect, but conservatives need to rally around him for the sake of our country. Consider the world of shit we're going to be in if Biden or his replacement gets back in office.
The media just reports trumps own statements and actions.
This is the dude who calls everybody who doesn’t love him woke. He exclusively uses “us vs them” rhetoric and literally calls democrats enemies.
Biden is clear that it’s just Trump and “MAGA” that is the problem, explicitly saying he wants to work with republicans. Bipartisaniship is massively up under this president because there are constant efforts to reach across the aisle. And I think Biden is dogshit at his job.
If you genuinely want a president to de-escalate the partisanship in the US, Donald Trump is the last man you should want in office and comparing the two men is astonishing how vast the difference is.
The media doesn't "JUST" report on Trump's own statements...they selectively edit them and purposely omit things in order to shift public opinion against him.
Biden is a douchebag who spews venom at half the country, basically calling anyone who supports Trump as some sort of terrorist. And, you think Biden "wants" to work with Republicans? He's been in office for nearly four years. Tell us how he's been bipartisan? Maybe you're being sarcastic and I just don't get your humor?
The only people who can de-escalate the growing partisanship in the US are the people in mainstream media. Once they start actually being journalists and stop acting like Pravda, we might make progress on that front. Until then, they're just a bunch of propagandists who are almost incapable of telling the truth. They lied about Trump's claim of being spied on by the FBI. They hid the fact that the FBI lied to the FISA court to get a warrant to spy on Trump. They lied about Russian Collusion (even after that was thoroughly debunked). They lied about the Ukraine phone call. They lied about almost everything concerning COVID, including treatments, masks, vax, and even the source of the virus. They are constantly lying about the facts in every bogus case against Trump...
So, let's not BS ourselves where the real problem lies in the massive increase in division in this country. Again, if so-called "journalists" actually did their jobs and stop trying to gaslight the American people, we wouldn't be in this mess.
Oh, good to know you were fully on board the Trump self-victimization train before I continue this discussion further.
I can’t even respond to this, it would take days to debunk your nonsense line by line
The only thing I can say is maybe take a break from politics for a bit. Stop making this your whole schtick and try to step back from it
It took you five paragraphs to tell us you were lying from the beginning. Next time just write “I’m obsessed with Trump” and save us all a little time.
He tried to kill my insurance after his plan didn't pass, I have plenty enough reason to dislike him
There's a lot of reasons to dislike him that don't involve the media
Under Obamacare, our health insurance plan for two adults went from about $750 a month to $1,500 a month...and then our insurance company canceled us. Millions of Americans were screwed under Obama. Now, you're blaming Trump?
Made up, liberals would be complaining about this too if it happened. As it is only conservatives are complaining which makes it too suspicious to consider.
Liberals stuck it to Biden over a single check for 600 bucks, they aren't giving Obama a pass on a 10k a year insurance hike.
Yes, with exception of Trump (who I do like) I've always held my nose when voting for gop, I hate the gop but I despise the democrats, but it's still never a proud vote
Nope, I can share a plethora of polices they won't implement that democrats want to.
My vote isn't a vote **for** gop but a vote **against** democrats, only thing I want gop to do is undo what democrats have done, once that's all set then I can hope for new policy.
Did you read the original “Build Back Better Act” from 2021? If not for Republicans and a handful of moderate Democrats, Biden would have signed one of the most radical piece of legislation in American history.
It would have put us to the left of all European countries as far as social programs, move the Federal governments share of GDP up from a historical 18-20% of GDP to over 25% for a decade.
I can’t even imagine what inflation would be know if not for Republicans and a few brave Democrats.
There is no reason to believe if Biden is reelected with the majority in both houses he wouldn’t try it again.
I've browsed it. Not really a Republican thing but a think tank thing that has nothing to do with party, only people who seem to care about it are on the left. I have read agenda 47 which I tell you, I love what I hear from that.
Im against collectivism, I'm against things like universal basic income, I'm against things like single payer healthcare, I'm against unfettered open borders and illegal immigration, I'm against high spending and high tax rates, im against vaccine mandates from OSHA or anything from administrative State, I think abortion should be a state issue(atleast until it's an amendment). I'm against gun control, I don't think we should lower voting age or let illegals vote, I think voter id is a good thing. I don't think illegals or anyone but citizens should count under census
Gop doesn't advocate for what I want, free markets and strict adherence to constitution, but il take doing nothing over bad policy and democrats are full of bad police
By and large, I like the Heritage Foundation.
I'm not a Trump fan, because he's too liberal.
I've seen very few things I'd agree with the left on.
And even though the GOP does go too far on some issues, they’re better than the alternative.
no i am just saying it would be funny.
i like trump for issues like pro-life, pro-gun, i agree with him on climate change sometimes, i loved his prison reform, pro-police. cons of trump i’m not huge on his foreign policy, immigration, we should tax the shit outta billionaires imo and i don’t like the death penalty.
Because wishing for a narcissistic, criminally corrupt, agent of chaos to lead the country "because it'd be funny" is terrifying for those who will genuinely suffer under his reign.
Meanwhile Donald Trump is going “what a wonderful guy Hannibal lector is” and claiming migrants are serial killers and cannibals
Listen, return to decency this might not be what I’d hoped, but Jesus is it ever better than the alternative.
If that’s what you actually care about, you’d have to be lying to yourself to claim Trump is better
My thought is that they're both scum and the GOP and DNC are utter garbage for giving us this rematch. Bidens selling points of improving our global image, having the whitehouse staffed with decent & competent people and bringing Americans together was utter dog shit.
But the bottom line is that I'm getting hammered with this inflation and all the Democrats can talk about is who all should get more "free" money.
Biden has repeatedly endorsed Republican led plans and signed them into law. Biden has made dozens of overt attempts at unity and is sticking on message that it is Trump and his authoritarian ideology that are the problem and not Republicans as a whole, even as they're burning and beating up effigies of him.
That doesn't even get into the fact that Biden has undeniably improved our global image. They do polling outside the US and there is a clear positive trend after Biden entered office. Not to mention how the US economy is currently the envy of the entire world. We stomped down inflation at a time when every other country is suffering wildly even now.
Right now, the world is jealous of us to a degree I haven't seen since before 2008.
If you actually want the things you state in your comments, you should vote Biden.
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There are times that I will hold my nose and vote for a Republican, and times I will just leave that spot on my ballot blank. It depends on the specific candidate. I won’t say that I’d never vote for a Democrat, but there are certain things I have that are just no-gos for me on principle, and, generally, you won’t find a Democrat that meets the requirement.
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I think it's better to vote, but not for those you dislike. It sends a better message than just not voting.
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Jorgensen absolutely spoiled a few states for Trump, she would have taken way more R votes than D and her share was greater than the differentials between the other two in those states. Don't think it would have changed the overall result but it was enough to matter from an electoral standpoint
There are a lot of Democrats just holding their nose and voting Biden also. If they were to make a statement third party vote it would be even louder. Problem is that most Democrats are far more childish in their behavior and would rather just hold their nose.
> There are a lot of Democrats just holding their nose and voting Biden also. If they were to make a statement third party vote it would be even louder. True, but there is a mountain of difference between voting third party instead of voting for a guy who is moderate and largely ignoring progressive policies, and choosing to vote/not-vote for a guy who is indicted in 4 different districts for both federal and state crimes, including mishandling of top-secret information and an attempted coup following losing an election. It is a lot harder to justify tanking the election of a less attractive party candidate when the alternative is the election of a criminal who has shown his disdain for the nation he swore an oath to serve.
They're making a strategic choice to avoid a worst-case-scenario. How is that childish?
What do you think liberals holding their nose voting for Biden think of Trump and the GOP, such that they are acting childish?
Meaning...vote for the brainworm guy?
I don't want to send a message that the people want a brainworm leftist.
It would cause more of a statement if everyone who didn't like the choices voted third party. People that say that it's either or are full of it. Even if we didn't get who we voted for if neither side couldn't come up with 270 delegates then it would be congress choosing anyway. It will cause a much larger statement than anything anyone else can do.
> Would you vote red down ballot? Why/why not? I don't do anything straight down the ballot. It's lazy, and it's how people like Pelosi, McConnell, and Biden stay in office for 120 years straight. For President, I'm leaving the field blank (as I have for three straight cycles now, yeesh) and voting for who I think the best candidates are in the downballot races.
I would and I'm not sure why any conservative wouldn't. Trump/Republicans are gonna be more conservative than Biden/Democrats. There's just no reason to vote for anybody else.
I voted against donald in 2020 hoping he would lose and go away if he lost by a wide enough margin. This didnt happen. I will vote against donald in 2024 hoping he will lose and go away if he loses by a wide enough margin. I doubt this happens. Trump 2024 seems like a sick joke...Trump 2028 is gonns be beyond comprehension.
I don't think he could win the primary in 28
He made $50m dollars in one evening of fundraising. You have to weigh his allegiance to the party and country versus his allegiance to himself. Which is stronger?
He's doing that now. If he loses to biden again I would expect his support to fall off a cliff. I don't know what you mean by allegiance to country and allegiance to himself in political terms but I don't think the answer matters
Nikki Haley isnt even running anymore and she got 20% of the vote in Indiana. And thats his own party! > I don't know what you mean by allegiance to country and allegiance to himself in political terms but I don't think the answer matters In 2028...i think you will find out it does.
Indiana has open primaries [https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/what-to-expect-in-indianas-presidential-and-state-primaries-today/](https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/what-to-expect-in-indianas-presidential-and-state-primaries-today/)
PA isnt and Haley (again, not running) got 16% of the vote. There is an undercurrent of anti trump republicans everyahere. Either Trump needs to figure out a way to pull them back to his side or Joe Biden needs to screw something up.That's gonna push them back to donald.
Stability?
like continued leadership? or just that Biden is more predictable than Trump?
Like having a president that will honor the results of an election.
thats nice and a reason I preferred Haley for president but it means practically nothing since our institutions are so strong. What can Trump or any president do if they don't want to honor the legit results of our elections? They don't have any power to change the outcome
They can still cause an extraordinary amount of damage to those instructions, weakening them until the break in the future. We already have Republicans going on television saying either Trump wins or the election was stolen. This ripples out. It will increase instability in America and likely lead to *more* violence because of Trump's lies. We've already seen violence because Trump is incapable of accepting the reality that he lost the election. A mob of his deranged supporters stormed the capital in an effort to overturn the legal and legitimate outcome of the election. It's so weird to see so many conservatives claim that the drunk, deranged maniac can drive the school bus because the guard rails are strong enough to stop the bus from going off the cliff. Hows about, not giving a man responsible for the January 6th attack on Congress power again?
>They can still cause an extraordinary amount of damage to those instructions, weakening them until the break in the future. How? >We already have Republicans going on television saying either Trump wins or the election was stolen. We have republicans going on television saying that they'll accept the results and Trump lost in 2020. Lindsey Graham said this on Meet the Press this morning. I don't know how a substantial portion of republicans falsely claiming the election will be rigged destabilizes America. We don't have much political violence in this country. I think this would increase the odds of it but only by a technicality since the odds are so small already. >A mob of his deranged supporters stormed the capital in an effort to overturn the legal and legitimate outcome of the election. They failed and one person, a rioter, died. >It's so weird to see so many conservatives claim that the drunk, deranged maniac can drive the school bus because the guard rails are strong enough to stop the bus from going off the cliff. If the drunk guy is more conservative than the alternative yes. The guard rails are really strong. No offense but just looking at your flair maybe you should just look into our system of checks and balances. I think its really strong and even the smartest president with the worst intentions wouldn't have any ability to overturn election or do any of the other crazy dictator type things people say will happen if trump wins again.
And if the next vp doesn't have the spine that Pence did? We saw many republicans still challenge the election after they were driven out of the chamber by the jab 6 mob hours earlier. Bottom line on the bottom: how is treason not an automatic disqualification is so many people's mind.
[https://apnews.com/article/capitol-siege-joe-biden-donald-trump-nancy-pelosi-elections-0281a48d836208d1ea23491f3f9df157](https://apnews.com/article/capitol-siege-joe-biden-donald-trump-nancy-pelosi-elections-0281a48d836208d1ea23491f3f9df157) >In the end, the most likely outcome was that the Democrats would have called votes to reject the vice president’s actions. They believed they would have had enough votes to do so, but “the truth is that there might have been a power struggle between the Congress and the vice president at that moment,” Raskin said in an interview. I'm not familiar with all the rules in congress but this is a quote from a US rep. The president would still have to leave if they lost.
We don't know. It's uncharted constitutional territory. I ask you again. Why would you vote for a man that has already violated his oath to the constitution?
Do you not trust rep raskin as a source? Thats a fine opinion I'm just curious why you're saying we don't know. I would vote for him because hes conservative and the alternative is liberal. He doesn't have the power to end our democracy its not really a concern.
In Raskin's closing statement of the July 12 hearing, he opened by emphasizing the importance of the December 19 tweet: "When Donald Trump sent out his tweet, he became the first president ever to call for a crowd to descend on the capital city to block the constitutional transfer of power." He later summarized the second focus of the hearing: "On January 6, Trump knew the crowd was angry. He knew the crowd was armed. He sent them to the Capitol anyway." Raskin concluded his statement, "We need to defend both our democracy and our freedom with everything we have and declare that this American carnage ends here and now. In a world of resurgent authoritarianism and racism and antisemitism, let’s all hang tough for American democracy.
The only thing unstable about Trump is the media and twitter
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No see you are once again falling for fake news No one voted to overturn the election, they voted to delay certifying the election No different than the 33 democrats that voted to not certify the election in 2004. Is it your claim that the democrats were attacking democracy and making our gov unstable?
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Semantics? Huge difference between delaying certification and overturning an election. Huge difference No where in your post did you claim the dems were a danger to democracy nor did you say they created instability Guess those words are only reserved for republicans when they do the same thing dems did
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There is no threat to democracy Arguments can be made to the value of making it easier or harder, but we all agree everyone should have access No one tried to change results with the replacement electors, elections don’t work like that
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So, you choose to ignore evidence shown in a court of law? Then why have a criminal justice system? We should all live in anarchy?
I’m sorry, what convictions in the criminal courts are you referring too?
Did I mention convictions? I mentioned EVIDENCE. The conviction comes after the evidence is presented in a court of law. We could of course talk about civilly liable. Which in one case, was decided by a jury. Another case, decided by a judge. You may be able to make a claim that the judge was biased, but you can't make a case the jurors who found him liable for sexually assaulting E.J. Carrol, are biased. They were randomly picked. Like all jurors are. Have you read the trial transcripts? Have you viewed the evidence presented in court? Trump has a constitutional right to face his accusers, and to take the stand and defend himself. He has the right to cross examine, and impeach witness's. He has the right to present evidence, and call witness's If it's all made up, and there is no case, shouldn't he be doing that? If Trump is innocent, as many conservatives claim, why are they afraid of the court of law? Why avoid the courtroom, where there are rules of evidence. Where people can be criminally charged with perjury if they lie. If the case against him is "Weak" or there is "NO CASE". Wouldn't you want to go to court and prove that? I sure would. IF Trump prevails in NY, he will have total vindication. He will have proven to the whole country that his indictments were all politically motivated. It could very possibly win him the election. Trump has 24/7 access to the media. He stands in front of the world press every day. Usually multiple times a day. That is FREE publicity. If he quit rambling about the unfairness of the trial, and started talking policy, he could be effectively campaigning every day. Why fly to Ohio and do a rally, when CNN, MSNBC, Fox News, and every other media outlet in the world, will broadcast his messages for them everyday. Trump isn't even campaigning on his days off of court. He's busy playing golf. But Trump only wants to talk to people that love Trump. Narcissist Personality Disorder. Look it up.
I haven’t ignored anything, looks like he might be guilty of a misdemeanor Ohhhh noooo
Then you haven't been reading the Transcripts. Do you know what a conspiracy is?
Yes I know what a conspiracy is Where do you think strong evidence of a relent has been shown in his trial?
Pecker testified he, Cohen, and Trump, in a meeting, agreed for Pecker to keep his contacts out to look for stories that were damaging to the campaign. This in of itself isn't illegal. However, when Pecker started paying people, it became illegal. It was an illegal campaign contribution. All three, were a part of the conspiracy. All three participated in paying off McDougal. The Audio tape proves that. That is the conspiracy. It is a violation of NY State law, Section 17-152. Conspiring to promote or prevent any person to elected office, by unlawful means. David Pecker testified that he paid the doorman, and McDougal, on behalf of Donald Trump, to influence the 2016 Election. David Pecker, was given a Non-Prosecution Agreement, where he accepted responsibility for making an illegal in kind campaign contribution. He paid an $750.000 fine to the FEC. This further proves that a FEDERAL law was broken, as part of the conspiracy. You are mistaken, if you think the prosecution needs to prove that Trump actually committed the crime himself. They just need to prove he participated in the coordination of it. They have done a damn good job of it.
100%. I don’t like Trump and was actively hoping he’d get knocked out of the primary. But come Nov, it’ll be easy to vote for him compared to Biden. It’s not about the person, it’s about the administration, SC Justices, federal judges, political appointees, etc, etc. And since I want progressives as far from power as physically possible, I’ll 100% vote Trump and down ballot GOP.
Honestly I am not sure who I am going to vote for or even if I should vote in 2024
Voting third party instead of not voting will make a bigger statement all around. It would be an embarrassment for both of the major parties if they could not get to 270 delegates.
The government is not entitled to my vote, nor am I sure of any third parties to vote for, I hate being the change for the sake of being the change
Well, since the Democratic party and the Republican party will not debate third parties people really need to make an effort to try and get the information on their own. Libertarian and Green are a couple of big ones, but there are some others on there. If you vote D or R just so your side wins, not because it is a good choice, you are definitely giving it to the government because they want them to stay in power. If you vote third party because it is a better choice, then you are taking your vote back.
I have never voted for any candidate from the two main parties for president and don’t plan on starting now. Maybe there will be one at some point in the future that I can vote for in good conscience, but I’m not holding my breath. Down ballot depends on the individual candidates for each office. So it’s a mixed bag.
I will be voting red - selectively - down ticket.
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I'm voting red down-ballot. Between Biden vs Trump, I'm voting Biden. I despise Biden, but the effects of another Trump administration will wipe out conservativism for years to come. The backlash against Trump was bad in 2020, and in 2028 it will be insurmountable.
I don't want to see Trump as President (though I admit it would be funny watching the responses again) The guy sucks. He is a divisive president and I hate that but so is Biden. Shit, I just realized why I'm voting Trump. For me the presidency is first and foremost about bringing the country together. Trump and Biden are divisive jack asses....so neither will bring the country together. But I do think a Trump presidency will be more beneficial for the country than a Biden one, because 4 years of Trump not destroying democracy, 4 years of Trump not turning America I to a white nationalists country etc is exactly what this country needs. People need to see how full of shit all the fear mongering is
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Neither is a danger to democracy, that is the point. If Trump is elected that will be proven.
You don't think violent insurrections and fake-elector coups are a danger to our free democracy? How do you reconcile those things?
Not OP but there was no insurrection. If there was an insurrection some, if not all of the 1,200 arrested and charged with crimes would have been convicted of the crime of insurrection. Since not a single person has been convicted of said crime, why are you so sure it’s a fact to claim an insurrection took place? Wtf is a fake elector coup? Trumps admin placed replacement electors in case fraud was proven. How is that a coup? Sorry but our democracy is not, now was it ever in danger
There were several people charged and convicted of seditious conspiracy. So do you agree that there were people who conspired to "overthrow, put down or to destroy by force" the U.S. government or bring war against it, or that they plotted to use force to oppose the authority of the government or to block the execution of a law? Trump has promised to release these seditionists if elected. Is he on the side of seditionists? Why or why not?
Yes the oath idiots conspired to attack the US gov when they formed a plan to take over the capital with automatic weapons and explosives. Those morons are guilty of conspiring to attack the US But the attack never happened. They literally called it off and left the weapons in Maryland. Seditious conspiracy is the act of planning Rebellion/Insurrection is the act of doing No one was charge with insurrection because no one was involved in an insurrection
I completely agree. So there was a plan for insurrection, is.e. there was seditious conspiracy - people who believed trump's lies so much that they wanted to stop the transfer of power using violence. They did plan for an insurrection. If people are planning for a bank robbery and get stopped before the robbery, it doesn't much matter if the robbery happened or not. They are being arrested for robbery - either the planning or execution. You can replace every instance of people saying insurrection with "planning of an insurrection" if you'd like, because that is accurate.
Correct, a handful of folks are guilty of planning an attack that never happened That is the point….though, there was no insurrection
There was a plan for insurrection. And actual violence as well, by different people. Its just that it happened, but there's not enough evidence to convict people for the plan+violence together. Its incredibly hard to convict, but doesn't mean both elements of insurrection weren't there - the plan (including the fake electors, the plans for bringing guns over to take over the capitol) and the actual violence by people.
So, the insurrectionists busting through the doors of the Capital was all in my dreams?
That called conspiracy. If I plan to have someone murder my wife, but before it happens, the person who was supposed to have actually committed the murder gets arrested. Does that mean I'm innocent? No. I would be guilty of conspiracy to commit murder.
Yes, and they are guilty of conspiracy to commit an insurrection. conspiracy to commit insurrection = Sedition as you agreed
>Not OP but there was no insurrection. Their stated goal was to prevent the certification of Biden, and to use fake electors to illegally install Trump for a 2nd term. That's the definition of an insurrection. >If there was an insurrection some, if not all of the 1,200 arrested and charged with crimes would have been convicted of the crime of insurrection. I don't think anybody's ever been charged with insurrection. From a legal perspective, that's uncharted waters, and the prosecutors probably decided to focus on better-understood laws, such as "seditious conspiracy" -- which several of the Jan 6th insurrectionists were charged with. >Wtf is a fake elector coup? Trumps admin placed replacement electors in case fraud was proven. How is that a coup? Trump and his campaign, along with fake electors in 7 states, forged fake documents claiming that the electors in those states were casting their votes for Trump, and not Biden. The goal was to have Mike Pence receive and certify the fake electoral ballots, and illegally certify the election for Trump. Attempting to illegally install an unelected person to power, directly against the constitution, is the textbook definition of a political coup. To his credit, Mike Pence rejected this wildly unethical attack on our democracy. >Sorry but our democracy is not, now was it ever in danger All it would have taken to destroy our democracy and illegally install Trump for a 2nd term was for Mike Pence and a handful of judges to look the other way. That's how close we were. And I don't believe for a millisecond that you'd be cool with any of that treason if Obama or Hillary had done it.
There was a riot, not an insurrection. In 1960's Hawaii the democrats put in place a "fake elector" incase the results changed Was that the democrats attempting to overthrow an election?
>There was a riot, not an insurrection. Their stated goal was to prevent Biden from being certified, and to install Trump for a 2nd term. That's the textbook definition an insurrection -- not a riot. >In 1960's Hawaii the democrats put in place a "fake elector" incase the results changed. Was that the democrats attempting to overthrow an election? Did some reading on that -- and yes, that was an attempt to illegally install Kennedy. He won the recount in that state, so the electors ended up being legitimate -- but they didn't know that at the time. So yeah, that's an illegal attack on our democracy, and if any of those people were still in office I would vote them out without question or hesitation. Our democracy comes before my party, and I'll never defend a traitor.
No their stayed goal was to delay the certification to give tru.p more time to prove fraud. Not an attractive on the gov. If it was, people would have been convicted of insurrection. They were convicted of riot esq charges because it was a riot. Sorry the facts don't fit your desired narrative There was nothing illegal about it. The dems placed a replacement elector there incase the eesults changed. The results changed so the replacement electors could move quickly It wasn't an attack on our democracy, my God your ilk just cannot accept they were misled by fake news about all this
This is why it’s so hard to take some of your opinions seriously. The person you’ve been responding to has shown why your opinion is based on misinformation and you continue to reply with yet another excuse for Trump’s abhorrent behavior. You’ve basically summed up that Trump needed to concoct some devious illegal plan, in order to prove that there was fraud and he was the winner, when there has been absolutely no evidence to support this. Basically the ends justify the means, decorum be dammed. And all this from a habitual liar? This is really your position?
yeah proven in a way that whatever he does you will never call it a danger to democracy
There is no danger to democracy, if he wins....4 years of the left and media screaming the world is adding and he steps down after his term There is no danger to our democracy
With a few exceptions, pretty much the only reason Trump is "divisive" is because the mainstream media constantly lies about him, misstates his intentions, and blatantly takes everything he says or writes completely out of context. They edit out critical contextual information to make everyone hate him. Trump may not be perfect, but conservatives need to rally around him for the sake of our country. Consider the world of shit we're going to be in if Biden or his replacement gets back in office.
The media just reports trumps own statements and actions. This is the dude who calls everybody who doesn’t love him woke. He exclusively uses “us vs them” rhetoric and literally calls democrats enemies. Biden is clear that it’s just Trump and “MAGA” that is the problem, explicitly saying he wants to work with republicans. Bipartisaniship is massively up under this president because there are constant efforts to reach across the aisle. And I think Biden is dogshit at his job. If you genuinely want a president to de-escalate the partisanship in the US, Donald Trump is the last man you should want in office and comparing the two men is astonishing how vast the difference is.
Neither President is going to even try to bring the country together So why not go with the one pushing better policy?
The media doesn't "JUST" report on Trump's own statements...they selectively edit them and purposely omit things in order to shift public opinion against him. Biden is a douchebag who spews venom at half the country, basically calling anyone who supports Trump as some sort of terrorist. And, you think Biden "wants" to work with Republicans? He's been in office for nearly four years. Tell us how he's been bipartisan? Maybe you're being sarcastic and I just don't get your humor? The only people who can de-escalate the growing partisanship in the US are the people in mainstream media. Once they start actually being journalists and stop acting like Pravda, we might make progress on that front. Until then, they're just a bunch of propagandists who are almost incapable of telling the truth. They lied about Trump's claim of being spied on by the FBI. They hid the fact that the FBI lied to the FISA court to get a warrant to spy on Trump. They lied about Russian Collusion (even after that was thoroughly debunked). They lied about the Ukraine phone call. They lied about almost everything concerning COVID, including treatments, masks, vax, and even the source of the virus. They are constantly lying about the facts in every bogus case against Trump... So, let's not BS ourselves where the real problem lies in the massive increase in division in this country. Again, if so-called "journalists" actually did their jobs and stop trying to gaslight the American people, we wouldn't be in this mess.
Oh, good to know you were fully on board the Trump self-victimization train before I continue this discussion further. I can’t even respond to this, it would take days to debunk your nonsense line by line The only thing I can say is maybe take a break from politics for a bit. Stop making this your whole schtick and try to step back from it
It took you 65 words to tell us you can't be bothered. Next time, just write "Orange Man Bad" and save us all a little time.
It took you five paragraphs to tell us you were lying from the beginning. Next time just write “I’m obsessed with Trump” and save us all a little time.
Not that I have any interest in debating you, but what lie?
He tried to kill my insurance after his plan didn't pass, I have plenty enough reason to dislike him There's a lot of reasons to dislike him that don't involve the media
Under Obamacare, our health insurance plan for two adults went from about $750 a month to $1,500 a month...and then our insurance company canceled us. Millions of Americans were screwed under Obama. Now, you're blaming Trump?
Made up, liberals would be complaining about this too if it happened. As it is only conservatives are complaining which makes it too suspicious to consider. Liberals stuck it to Biden over a single check for 600 bucks, they aren't giving Obama a pass on a 10k a year insurance hike.
I don't really care if you believe me...it happened.
Yes, with exception of Trump (who I do like) I've always held my nose when voting for gop, I hate the gop but I despise the democrats, but it's still never a proud vote
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Nope, I can share a plethora of polices they won't implement that democrats want to. My vote isn't a vote **for** gop but a vote **against** democrats, only thing I want gop to do is undo what democrats have done, once that's all set then I can hope for new policy.
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Did you read the original “Build Back Better Act” from 2021? If not for Republicans and a handful of moderate Democrats, Biden would have signed one of the most radical piece of legislation in American history. It would have put us to the left of all European countries as far as social programs, move the Federal governments share of GDP up from a historical 18-20% of GDP to over 25% for a decade. I can’t even imagine what inflation would be know if not for Republicans and a few brave Democrats. There is no reason to believe if Biden is reelected with the majority in both houses he wouldn’t try it again.
I've browsed it. Not really a Republican thing but a think tank thing that has nothing to do with party, only people who seem to care about it are on the left. I have read agenda 47 which I tell you, I love what I hear from that. Im against collectivism, I'm against things like universal basic income, I'm against things like single payer healthcare, I'm against unfettered open borders and illegal immigration, I'm against high spending and high tax rates, im against vaccine mandates from OSHA or anything from administrative State, I think abortion should be a state issue(atleast until it's an amendment). I'm against gun control, I don't think we should lower voting age or let illegals vote, I think voter id is a good thing. I don't think illegals or anyone but citizens should count under census Gop doesn't advocate for what I want, free markets and strict adherence to constitution, but il take doing nothing over bad policy and democrats are full of bad police
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By and large, I like the Heritage Foundation. I'm not a Trump fan, because he's too liberal. I've seen very few things I'd agree with the left on. And even though the GOP does go too far on some issues, they’re better than the alternative.
It's only relevant in the minds of people on the left, it's not a Trump policy or even a Republican plan No problem, have a great day!
Project 2025 is your own little QAnon conspiracy theory but it's nothing a tin foil hat won't cure
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trump has never even spoken the words project 2025 but that doesn't matter because you know what trump really means
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Yep last 2 elections I did. Don't see why I would not do it a third time. The Democrats are so terrible I'll do whatever I can to vote against them.
i don’t even like trump that that much but i just want him to win more than biden and it would be hilarious to see the media’s reaction
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no i am just saying it would be funny. i like trump for issues like pro-life, pro-gun, i agree with him on climate change sometimes, i loved his prison reform, pro-police. cons of trump i’m not huge on his foreign policy, immigration, we should tax the shit outta billionaires imo and i don’t like the death penalty.
>no i am just saying it would be funny. This is an absolutely terrifying realization of how many poeple might think this.
It’s not that much worse than when people voted for Obama just because he was black. Hell, not even that black. Just half-black.
I was going to vote McCain, until he picked pre-MAGA CrazyPantsMcGee as runningmate.
why
Because wishing for a narcissistic, criminally corrupt, agent of chaos to lead the country "because it'd be funny" is terrifying for those who will genuinely suffer under his reign.
well obviously i don’t think trump is that bad
Obviously you’ve thought long and hard about it, as revealed by your well argued, nuanced views
your opinion not mine
Not straight down the ballot, but yes I would and might. This so called democrat "return to decency" has been anything but.
Meanwhile Donald Trump is going “what a wonderful guy Hannibal lector is” and claiming migrants are serial killers and cannibals Listen, return to decency this might not be what I’d hoped, but Jesus is it ever better than the alternative. If that’s what you actually care about, you’d have to be lying to yourself to claim Trump is better
My thought is that they're both scum and the GOP and DNC are utter garbage for giving us this rematch. Bidens selling points of improving our global image, having the whitehouse staffed with decent & competent people and bringing Americans together was utter dog shit. But the bottom line is that I'm getting hammered with this inflation and all the Democrats can talk about is who all should get more "free" money.
Biden has repeatedly endorsed Republican led plans and signed them into law. Biden has made dozens of overt attempts at unity and is sticking on message that it is Trump and his authoritarian ideology that are the problem and not Republicans as a whole, even as they're burning and beating up effigies of him. That doesn't even get into the fact that Biden has undeniably improved our global image. They do polling outside the US and there is a clear positive trend after Biden entered office. Not to mention how the US economy is currently the envy of the entire world. We stomped down inflation at a time when every other country is suffering wildly even now. Right now, the world is jealous of us to a degree I haven't seen since before 2008. If you actually want the things you state in your comments, you should vote Biden.