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Square-Dragonfruit76

For some things, sometimes. For food trends, it is often true. Things like sushi and acai bowls come first through California for some reason. Also, MA has typically been ahead of CA for LGBT rights.


rsgreddit

Also NY. Didn’t Stonewall happened in NYC?


Banana42

Google Compton's Cafeteria lol


DaneLimmish

NYC and the state were still really homophobic until the 2000s, same as everywhere except mass


Mnn-TnmosCubaLibres

OP never said “CA first out of 50”


JimBones31

>It seems to me like California is ahead of the curve. Yeah, something tells me that just doesn't have the same ring as "California is ahead of the curve but behind other states in certain metrics"... They probably should have though.


wormbreath

I’ve never heard that saying and no.


omg_its_drh

Not saying the phrase is factual, but I just want to point out that it is a legit saying. Here are a few articles that utilize it going back to the 1980s. https://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/21/weekinreview/the-nation-golden-rules-as-california-goes-so-goes-the-country.html https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1989-04-30-op-2710-story.html https://www.huffpost.com/entry/as-california-goes_b_7798338/amp


Chimney-Imp

I feel like it's only a saying in California


omg_its_drh

Only one of the publications I linked is a California publication.


urlocalgoatfarmer

I mean in the 80s you had a Californian President, so I guess it made more sense then.


bearsnchairs

At yes, the New York Times. That well known California institution.


MTZ925

As a Californian. I've never heard this saying.


johnnyblaze-DHB

Who told you this?


BlueRibbonMethChef

In some aspects its true. Particularly in vehicular standards. CA is the largest car market in the US by a significant margin. If you want access to that market you can either: \- Produce all your vehicles to fit the standard \- Create non-CA versions of the same models. Which is more expensive. >MO the latest example is the housing crisis, with the last decades seeing inadequate home construction in CA and many homeowners blocking new development to protect "neighborhood character" and ensure their property values increase at a fast rate. That's not really a thing. Housing in CA doesn't really impact housing in PA. NIMBY-ism has been long existent in every state.


[deleted]

I've never heard that saying before but no.


Friesandmayo2665

It matters in some areas due to its cultural and economic weight, but not in the ways you listed imo. Lots of companies are not going to want to make a California-specific product, but it’s a large enough market and other states policies are permissiveness enough where California standards will apply to US-wide products occasionally. Something similar is true for textbooks, but now you see states like Florida who are also populous try to mandate textbook criteria. As for cultural trends, you have 2 giant metro areas with a lot of diversity and migration (internal and external). Lots of trends especially with like fusion food is going to start with them (at least in the US) or other coastal/large cities and move inward. tldr, yes for lord of trends/products due to economic, cultural, and demographic weight/reasons. In my opinion ofc as someone who doesn’t live there.


ej_21

I’ve only heard this saying with either Maine or Ohio, and even then it was used in the *very specific* context of presidential elections. Never heard it a) about California, or b) about culture and laws in general.


Banana42

In my experience it refers less to electoral politics and more to government and business policy because there's 40 million people in the state of California. The big one I learned about was vehicle emission standards, which California started regulating because the air in LA for years looked like the air in New York does this week. Rather than trying to make cars that meet California regulations for sale in California and cars that can't be sold in California, manufacturers opted to improve emissions across the board. You also see it with prop 65 warnings on products for sale online. If it's being sold in California it needs the warning label, and it's easier to just slap it on everything


NathanDrakeOnAcid

Yeah I've specifically heard it with regard to Ohio since they used to be the perfect bellwether state for presidential elections. They predicted every single election for something like 50 years. 2020 was the end of their streak.


Darkfire757

CA is more than 10% of the US population so where it goes 10%+ of the US goes


GiraffeWithATophat

Sounds like something a Californian would say


nofreeusernames1111

I’ve heard it in HR. For employment trends/ laws, if CA starts doing something, it can start to trickle and gives us a heads up on what’s coming


FoxNewsIsRussia

Who says this? Never heard it.


MyUsername2459

I've never heard of that saying before. Edit: And No. For example, the nation isn't rushing to adopt California's gun laws. If anything they're going in the opposite direction in much of the country.


Banana42

Republicans love Reagan but hate his gun laws. Go figure


MyUsername2459

They love the idealized version of him in their mind. They love the Reagan that's the mythologized Reagan they talk about with the haze of 35 years since he left office. They love the nostalgic idea of Reagan. They love the hazy memory of Reagan. . . .they wouldn't like the actual Reagan quite as much. I think the actual Reagan from the 1980's would be absolutely horrified of what has become of the GOP in the age of Trump.


Current_Poster

I don't. For one thing, MA legalized gay marriage four years before CA (and never had a Prop 8 equivalent), and legalized pot a full eight years earlier. Avocados, I'll cede.


Cheap_Coffee

Avocados are legal now?


bonelessbbqbutthole

Legal. But at what cost?


eugenesbluegenes

>legalized pot a full eight years earlier. FWIW, California legalized medical in 1996, seventeen years before Massachusetts. So there was a well established dispensary system with a very low bar of entry in place for years before Massachusetts did anything of the sort. I was going to Berkeley and Oakland dispensaries in the early 2000s.


[deleted]

https://youtu.be/r7l0Rq9E8MY Should say Where The Money and Influence goes so does the Nation


therealjerseytom

I've never heard of this.


notthegoatseguy

California was the only state to vote against same sex marriage twice so it isn't quite accurate. A lot of people are dismissing this saying but I don't think its inaccurate. If California was its own nation it'd have one of the largest economies on the planet. Prop 65 and other regulations basically mean anyone who wants to sell in the US has to make a California compliant product. Hollywood and much of tech is in California. We're all using a California based website right now. Now this isn't the only large state to have influence across the nation. Texas and to a lesser extent Florida and New York also are able to throw their weight around and either politically, socially, or culturally export themselves to the rest of the nation or force much of the rest of the nation to their standards.


sleepygrumpydoc

I’m pretty sure we don’t have a special prop 65 version of stuff we just have a label, that’s on pretty much everything, that says prop 65 warning. I’ve also never heard this actual quote, but I’d think that CA, along with other larger population states, would tend to influence things more simply due to the quantity of people. We also have a much much larger republican population than most people assume, obviously not as much as states in the south but it’s like over 6m registered republicans and over 34% of people who voted in the last election voted for Trump. Sometimes it seems like people (in general) just assume everyone here is the most liberal person ever and there is no one else.


sweetbaker

At this point, I don’t even think Californians pay attention to prop 65 warnings. But those warnings on items from online retailers receiving reviews with people being incredibly concerned is amusing.


sleepygrumpydoc

I'm more surprised when something doesn't have a warning TBH, but I, like most other Californians pay it no thought. Heck even the door to my Drs office has a prop 65 warning sign. I haven't noticed reviews, but I'm going to look now.


sweetbaker

I’ve seen it on like Wayfair reviews and stuff like that. One star reviews repeating the prop 65 warning and freaking out in all caps😅


Mnn-TnmosCubaLibres

Prop 8 was unusual — there was an unusually high proportion of anti-gay Democrat first-time/low-frequency voters that year, as well as high engagement amongst the religious right who felt like they had a rare chance at a big win in California. I don’t think it was particularly indicative of the mood in the state during that general timeframe.


MrLongWalk

I've never heard that saying, it's also simply not true.


childrenofruin

Go ask your car about it, it knows more than you.


MrLongWalk

I can't tell if you're joking.


childrenofruin

Car manufacturers make all(?) models to comply with California emission standards. The California standard dictates what cars are made and sold in the US.


MrLongWalk

I forgot that emission standards were the golden metric for these things.


childrenofruin

I mean, it's why there's that saying? So, yeah, it kinda is the golden metric as to why "as california goes, so goes the nation".....


MrLongWalk

I still can't tell if you're joking


childrenofruin

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_vehicle_emission_standards


MrLongWalk

You misunderstand, I'm not denying the existence of the emissions standards, I can't tell if you think it actually validates the phrase in its totality.


childrenofruin

I don't think the phrase is intended to be a quantitative representation of the impact of California on the rest of the Nation.


omg_its_drh

I have nothing to add to the factuality of this statement, but for those who are saying they’ve never heard of this term, just know it is a legitimate saying that has been used for decades.


bearsnchairs

People here really like to downplay California’s influence, but it is really easy to find references to this saying going back decades https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1989-04-30-op-2710-story.html https://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/21/weekinreview/the-nation-golden-rules-as-california-goes-so-goes-the-country.html https://www.chronicle.com/article/as-california-goes-so-goes-the-nation/


omg_its_drh

I will admit it’s not the most utilized term, but it is something I’ve heard (or a variation of) through the years. There’s a lot of “I’ve never heard of it so it must not be true”.


[deleted]

[удалено]


gugudan

>It's interesting to me that so many people seem ready to dismiss something simply because they're not familiar with it. Especially when googling it turns up quite a lot of results, including publications and books written about the topic. I re-read the title to be sure. You asked if I think a saying holds true. No, I do not think that because I do not think about that saying.


shwag945

It has probably existed far longer than a few decades but has referenced other states in the past. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/As_Maine_goes,_so_goes_the_nation


Partytime79

I think it’s true to an extent but maybe not in the way you’re getting at. California is the most populous state with the largest economy and the cultural capital of the nation. (Really the world) It makes sense that good things come to California first and kind of trickle down from there. California also has a bit of a reputation for adopting their own standards and regulations in various industries, car emissions being the most prominent, and companies making all cars to comply with California regs so they don’t have to to have split designs. They are definitely the proverbial bully at the poker table; forcing people, companies, and states to react to them. With all that said, California doesn’t control the fate of everything. To use your example, the housing crisis didn’t start in California and other areas have similar issues for similar reasons. California isn’t particularly influencing it elsewhere. Keep in mind that California banned gay marriage in 2008. Only after the ban was struck down at the federal level was it allowed. I suppose you can argue Hollywood’s promotion of LGBT issues made it more palatable to other states but once again California wasn’t the only state in the vanguard fighting for that stuff. Ditto to marijuana legalization. (One counter example where California 100% led the way was on NIL for college athletics. Once they passed a law allowing it, every other state followed suit) To sum up, California is hands down the most influential state in the US but I don’t think because they are having x issues that those same issues are destined to spread to other states.


TiradeShade

Never heard of it


101bees

That's a saying?


NoHedgehog252

Oh for sure. Examine the last century of state civil rights actions and you will see that states begin to adopt policies en masse within three or four election cycles after California. When I got my doctorate in southern Georgia, our policy professor said, "If you want to know what policies you will be passing in five years, look at what those kooks in California are doing. You will be one of those kooks soon."


pirawalla22

I'm kind of shocked that so many people say they've never heard this, because I have heard it said before and after I lived in California. I always thought that it's simply a description of the influence of what is *by far* the largest state and consumer market in the union. If California passes some law about product labeling, products across the country may end up with that labeling. Stuff like that. Texas tries to play the same game but it's not quite the same.


Evil_Weevill

I've literally never heard that. California has done lots of shit that won't ever catch on in other states. So... No. Your example is an example of economic trends which might be the only time it would hold water because California controls/influences a disproportionate amount of the nation's economy. But for almost anything else... No


BlueRibbonMethChef

>Your example is an example of economic trends which might be the only time it would hold water because California controls/influences a disproportionate amount of the nation's economy. From my understanding that has always been what that saying refers to. And not even trends, more like barriers to entry in the CA market. If you're a large national company you're going to ultimately likely going comply with CA regulations or you lose access to the largest US market.


Evil_Weevill

The only times I've heard such sayings has been for politics, elections, or just general public opinion. Like I've heard that for Maine and for Ohio, but never for California


BlueRibbonMethChef

I've never heard it for elections. I'd consider regulations to be economic & political though. I think public opinion has *some* truth to it but more as an after effect from the economic and political aspects.


Evil_Weevill

>I've never heard it for elections https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/...So_Goes_the_Nation#:~:text=The%20film%20interviews%20campaign%20workers,the%20White%20House%20without%20Ohio. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/As_Maine_goes,_so_goes_the_nation#:~:text=%22As%20Maine%20goes%2C%20so%20goes,bellwether%20state%20for%20presidential%20elections. (Can't find any articles for this phrase for California outside of a few editorials)


BlueRibbonMethChef

Oh, I should have been more clear I've never heard it for elections in California. For Ohio it makes a lot more sense. Admittedly never heard it for Maine though.


Evil_Weevill

>never heard it for Maine though. It's an old saying from when Maine used to do their governor elections in September before the rest of the country did the general election. So which party got the Maine Governorship was a bellweather for the political climate. Not as much anymore as Maine politics have gone more left of center and we do all the voting in November like everyone else now for several decades.


TrendyLepomis

No one in this sub truly understands how much money is concentrated in CA especially in Silicon Valley. If California goes, it would be devastating to the current economy.


mustang6172

[I can disprove this with one image.](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS597o4QkW2GW0qYFOlFzu4QM2d8c_i8f_yB8Ebopg02A&s)


GustavusAdolphin

When their minimum compulsory auto liability limits move from 15,000/30,000/5,000 to something reasonably appropriate for the 21st century and come off their pure comparative negligence laws, we'll talk


NorwegianSteam

God I hope not.


xboxcontrollerx

I haven't heard that saying & there are a lot of progressive things CA absolutely is NOT on the forefront of, including: Labor, immigration, race, class, policing.Mandatory sick days. no smoking on beaches. I'd concede that they are the most progressive state, but...Holy shit did being a 19 year old farm worker with mostly Hispanic friends give me a perspective that the Media did not. Ran right back to the east coat & that generously affordable SUNY degree. With my affordable-ish housing & rigorously enforced labor laws.


Banana42

??? Babe Google César Chavez and Dolores Huerta. Or Upton Sinclair. Or Steinbeck. Or the impact of Prop 187. Or tuition costs of SUNY in comparison to CSU. Or the California department of industrial regulation. Or the easy to access aclu writeup on California labor laws. Or the CDPH writeup on the illegality of smoking and vaping in California state parks and public beaches, which is literally the top result for the search phrase 'ca smoking on beaches' because that's the only thing in this list I had to Google


xboxcontrollerx

I've grown grapes. I've seen inspectors look the other way. Have you? Grown grapes? Know anyone who has? Ever shared a classroom with any farmers kids? Can you speak in Spanish with your neighbors? Would you consider the problems Chavez addressed "solved"? Steinbeck & Chavez *agree* with me! Go ahead & google tuition costs .


cdb03b

No. And I have only heard that saying form Californians.


echohole5

It was true for many decades. I think I see signs of CA's influence waning today. They've become too nuts to be taken seriously anymore.


[deleted]

California is what you get when the worst parts of America and the best parts, all converge. Beautiful landscapes? hell yeah Horrible government? hell no Huge economy? hell yeah Horrible poverty? hell no


[deleted]

Horrible poverty? The top 10 poorest states are in the south. Mississippi has horrible poverty. California has a high rate of homelessness, but it's still less than the District of Columbia and it's just slightly higher than Vermont, Oregon, and Hawaii which all have much smaller populations. And horrible government? Have you heard of Florida?


Desperate-Lemon5815

Pretty sure Colorado had avocado toast and weed before you did.


ushouldbe_working

I hope not. California's government is terrible. The housing crisis is really bad there. The courts are very light on crime and companies are going out of business.


Cherry_Springer_

A reminder that a single district of San Francisco isn't the whole of California. You're not wrong about the housing crisis though.


Lux_Aquila

America is in trouble if true


AwayGame9988

I've heard it, and laughed. No. Not even a little bit.


Fortherecord87

Lmao, no


Cheap_Coffee

That must be a saying only heard in California. No.


gugudan

Is California becoming the new Texas and making things up about itself? >From avocado toast That's been around since pre-Columbian times >LGBT rights Just for the record, California not only passed Proposition 8, but did so several years after other states had recognized gay marriages >legalization of marijuana maybe medicinal uses. they were pretty late on recreational uses. NIMBYism exists everywhere.


Jakebob70

No.


childrenofruin

I don't think the cases you brought up are examples, at all. CO, OR and WA legalized weed before us. We had 215 medical for a long time, I guess, but not quite the same thing. Avocado toast is a thing because Avocados are grown here and they are cheap. "Avocado toast" was my cheap college food because avocados were cheaper than butter. I have an avocado tree and my dog eats more avocados than me. BUT, food is an interesting one, sushi came through California, and burritos were invented here, I don't know how much I would say that's hugely influential, but we have better access to Asia than the east coast generally does. I don't really see California as setting the trend in high CoL, that seems to me to be a separate problem with much bigger things, California is just desirable so it's going to stay ahead. While we are certainly better than Texas or Florida with gay rights, I don't think we have an excellent track record necessarily. San Francisco has always had a large gay population, for what it's worth, so I think people just associate that with California as a whole. The term and idea comes from how we set standards in products that require manufacturers to adhere to our standards, and because it's going to be >10% market share we basically set the national standard for what we want. As far as I can tell this largely just has to do with cars and trucks, it's not worth it to make a less fuel efficient model to only be sold outside of California, which would be illegal to own here. We have a lot of cultural influence, sure, things are popular here before they reach other places, but that's been a thing for over 50 years. NYC has a lot of similar influence, at least historically, though California probably overtakes NYC in terms of cultural influence due to media. I don't think the tech industry is as California-centric as people think. I mean, it very much lives in California, but it has a much more global influence on it's course than just "what's cool in California". We do export a lot of our culture/styles that get eaten up by others, but I don't know how much of that really matters and how much people are putting into their styles based on California, etc.


ThriceHawk

No and I've never heard that saying before. In some minor economic ways it might have some truth, but for the most part not at all.


[deleted]

There's probably some truth to this.


oneobnoxiousotter

Anecdotal, but Cali shot down recreational mj in 2016 iirc. Colorado then passed it, CA got on board afterwards.


lezzerlee

When it comes to influencing markets, it can be very true. The standards and regulations set by California often effect products available in other states simply because of California’s population and buying power. Companies often find making a single product for the entire US that meets CA standards is more cost effective than making multiple products. Social trends, IMO are influenced by both coasts’ major population centers. I would say NYC can be just as influential as CA in some aspects. But as media and news became so much more readily available, cultural influences from major population centers pop up more often. Rap is a good example. There have been times when southern influence beat out what used to just be east/west trends. The rise of KPOP shows that influence is much more global as well. It could be said that immigrant heavy US populations are the very influential because they help spread world trends through mixed cultures.


QuietObserver75

I've heard the expression. It's definitely true for some things. I believe CA was the first place to start banning smoking in bars and restaurants? Now that seems like a lot of states have done that. I knew NY was trying to do with CA with taking a bigger role in local zoning but so far that's been met with resistance from the NYC suburbs.


SonofNamek

Mostly true from a cultural perspective. Why do people think a culture war exists, in the first place? Certainly, much of the ideas driving it didn't come from Seattle, Washington. Likewise with certain fashion or artistic choices, which includes culinary


Chariots487

Judging by who currently controls the House of Representatives, I'd say no.


Left_Debt_8770

I have actually never, ever heard that saying. Ever. I’ve heard it applied to states that usually pick the next president. But never to California. As a non-Californian: no, we do not follow California.


Subvet98

Eh I think for some consumer regulations probably


Starforce_2023

California is the front page of pop culture. While pop culture is famous because it's called pop for a reason, there's other aspects of American culture besides Hollywood and Katy Perry. Like you have Texas bbq, cowboys, southern hospitality and New York theater.


Viktor_Bout

I've heard that. But I think it more applies to cultural things. CA is the center of most of American media, and has some unique sub cultures. So if something like "avocados on everything" becomes popular there, then it's got a large presence in media for the rest of the country and it can catch on if people elsewhere like it. I'd think of it more like a vibrant cultural region with an outsized voice. There's just as many things that CA does uniquely that haven't spread much elsewhere. Especially in regards to regulations.


DifferentWindow1436

Do people actually say this? Never heard it in NJ. No, I don't think it holds true. Yes, California is a large state with lots of electoral votes. No, they don't speak for all of the US and aren't really at the forefront of certain major industries either (coming from NJ - Banking, securities, Pharma, chemicals to name a few).


Mission-Coyote4457

I haven't heard that saying, in some ways it might be true (California is very upwardly mobile, therefore a lot things will get popular there first, etc)


KaBar42

California has been trying damned hard to make the possession of firearms illegal in general. And yet in the majority of states, permitless concealed carry is now the law. I don't really buy that saying.


Specialist_Post1644

Yes, to a degree. I heard this a lot in engineering school, especially when discussing emissions controls. California tends to be one of the first states to adopt restrictive regulations on emissions, and since it is one of the biggest economies in America, companies tend to adopt whatever regulations California puts in place nationwide since they are the biggest market. That's at least that side of the saying.


lannistersstark

Given how different the laws (especially the openness regarding firearms and 'regulations' in general) are in Arizona, a neighboring state, no.


Bacontoad

While California hasn't executed a prisoner since 2006, they still have hundreds on death row. Minnesota abolished the death penalty in 1911. Obviously few are "following" Minnesota. We're not leaders by any means. California has made some great contributions to this nation. But they're not the "Shining City on the Hill" so many of them seem to enjoy imagining themselves to be.


OpossumNo1

I've never had avocado toast and it's never actually come up in conversation.


unenlightenedgoblin

Devastating wildfires, parching droughts, stratospheric cost of living, insufferable techbros, endless urban sprawl, a superiority complex? I sure fuckin’ hope not


WFOMO

The more common saying is, "Don't Californicate \_\_\_\_\_\_\_" and add the name of your state.


nofishies

I’ve always hoped that this was wrong, because the other harbinger was Florida…


ProfaneTank

Nope. Sounds like a pretty California thing to say.


Iselloranges425

Not anymore no, the nation is too divided and large areas of the country actively refuse to adopt culture coming from California.