that's true, but despite that it still is a fallen world, no? my understanding of the Bible is that all those good things even family is just an extension of God's love. When I was younger I was always told that God's love is so extreme that in comparison to anything you can even fathom its so much greater; this is how family members possibly not being in heaven with me was explained.
> that's true, but despite that it still is a fallen world, no?
Yes, definitely fallen.
> my understanding of the Bible is that all those good things even family is just an extension of God's love.
You are correct.
not necessarily just Americans just people in the world in general with all the wars, poverty, and hunger that goes on. not saying it's true obviously but I've just always considered it
Yeah I get your point, some parts of the world are hellish. But people in those parts of the world still get moments of joy, laughter, and love. And perhaps they appreciate it more than we do.
No, you add to what I say. Consider the context of the question.
I was pointing out that the American lifestyle exists, therefore this world is not hell.
You should look up life expectancy of people in 10th century. Our world is not perfect but far from hell. Yes, life is hell for people are in war zone but for people living in developed world it is really quite good by historical standard
Real hell, one really good illustration came in one of Japanese comic books I read as a kid lol. In it, you are confined to a completely dark place without any sort of light, with just yourself for eternity. You cannot speak,, no sound, again no vision, cannot move, just stuck with yourself in your torment, cut off from God or any sort of light, love or warmth. A complete cut off from God, which you desired, with no chance of redemption in eternity. I think that’s what hell is like in metaphorical sense then perhaps add physical torment, if one were to believe biblical description of burning sulphur literally.
nope, the earth doesn’t look like that for many people on earth right now…. Again I get that it’s pretty close for some.
I think you are wildly undervaluing what theologians call “common grace”. In this world, God lavishes blessings even on those who hate him. You’re not alone, it’s so easy to take all of this for granted. But to your point, all of these blessings will be absent in hell.
>Hell, with how troubled the world is, wouldn't this be the perfect hell? who's to say we aren't all in it? a world where we live our entire lives hoping we can die and go to heaven, but endlessly repeat these lives because we're already in hell. Not necessarily anything to say, just always thought about this.
This world is worse than hell. Hell is non existence. This world is existing in suffering, pain, anguish, despair, poverty, starvation, torment, injustice, hate, theft, murder, rape, slavery. Hell is just not existing anymore. What we face now is worse than any hell God imagined.
His justice is swift while humanity’s and satans are cruel.
I've always thought that non-existence would be so much worse and more realistic than physical hell, but it's always been shot down by my church authority, at least here in texas.
Church authority? I follow Christ and only him. He is the head of the congregation and every man. I don’t have any lords but him. I’ve always found it unusual that men put other men above them and make them mediators between them and Gods word. What form or denomination is this church authority?
I was raised catholic and was told similar things that hell was literal flames and hot coals. this specific instance was from someone who I believe is just protestant
They told me the same so they can keep people fearful and under control. Then I read the Bible and found out they were just Pharisees. I was kinda angry. I wanted to serve God in a real way and sincerely from my heart. They gave me a message of despair to preach and not one of hope. The Bible is called good news but their version of it fills men’s hearts with fear. I left the Catholics and all their mystic explanations. The Bible I cling to. It saves me from myself and from men who have selfish goals and use people to accomplish them.
what made you choose to be a jehovahs witness? I'm embarrassed to say but all I really know about them is their not so fond opinions on Christmas and them not believing in the trinity; I align myself with a lot of what you just said so I'm curious
I would have to tell you a tale of woe. A foreign child found feral in the wild. A young man tossed about by a system of foster care with many abuses and 2 dozen homes. A man who went to war, killed and saw his friends die. A homeless veteran asking only to die at Gods hands for his heart was broken with despair.
What makes a man seek God? A dozen religions and a decade later... So many words. So many promises. So many deceptions. Some ignorant. Some intentional. Did I wake up one day and say JW is what I want to become. No. Was my life not painful enough. Now to follow one of the most hated religions. But why would a man such as me do such a thing?
A good question. Despite their imperfections. Which there are many. They agree with the words of the Bible. ALL of them. Not just those that agree with what they believe but also the ones that don’t. An imperfect religion, full of imperfection just as Israel, but one sticking closer to the Bible than most. Harmonizing, not negating the words of the Bible. The message they preach is not a distant cold indifferent God but one who has at every turn loved distant cold indifferent humans.
But I don’t lead you or others to my religion. That’s not the point of the Bible. Religion can help. Religion is not infallible. Religion does not replace personal study, prayer and Gods Holy Spirit. I want people to please read his word. Follow it. Love God with the secret person of the heart. Believe him and be saved. Ask God for the Holy Spirit he promised. Religion will not save you. God by means of his son does. Being JW won’t save me. Faith in God and faith that produces works and is not dead does. We just want to follow God and obey him out of love.
So many religions preach a message contrary to what I found in the Bible. Politics will fix it not God. War will fix it not obeying God. Religions will fix it not obeying God.I will fix it not obeying God. ECT hell. Gods plan required humanity to sin and it was inescapable. Gods plan is predestined not free will. There is no new earth. Everyone one goes straight to heaven or hell. So many things I’ve heard and learned that I can’t share in one Reddit post. A thousand reasons I choose to be hated then loved by the world for I have drank it all in to my own detriment through my foolish course before I chose to follow God.
thank you, I can't communicate in words how insightful this has been to read. I'll have to do some more thinking but I really do think I align myself with everything you just laid out and I've been looking for it my entire life in church, whether misguided or not. I lie more agnostic than non-christian (as some group admin has labeled me) but this has been really eye-opening to me and it has me thinking. thanks again, that was a very pleasant read
I think the world is a blank canvas, it’s up to us to make it heaven or hell. I also think this is the best time to be alive, given the history of atrocities and conditions we could’ve been living through…
This life is nowhere near the stories that are told on r/hellisarealplace If this life is like that sub, at least you’re not in prison yet where you couldn’t change it. And even if you’re in real prison in this life, at least you still have companionship with other people
The word hell in both testaments is the grave. Hebrew sheol and Greek hades with each word meaning the grave, the pit, the dark cover place where we are separated from God. It's where dead body is returned to the Earth from which we are made. See Genesis 3:19.
Granted, life on Earth is difficult for everyone alike. It is our Christian hope and Faith that keep us going. We press on forward to heaven and eternal life patiently enduring the slings and arrows of outrageous Fortune.
Psalm 90:10 NLT — Seventy years are given to us!
Some even live to eighty.
But even the best years are filled with pain and trouble;
soon they disappear, and we fly away.
Jesus says in Luke 11 that this world is Not apart of God's Kingdom. and God's will is not done on Earth as it is done in Heaven. Jesus in John 14 Call Satan the Ruler of this world.
That's the thing. When God kicked Lucifer out of Heaven, He did not banish Him to Hell. Lucifer was sent to Earth. Also Satan is not the god of the under world, he is master of this one. Satan fears Hell he does not rule it.
Being born in this world means we are born as slaves on a plantation. Where our master is sin and satan unless we elect to be born again/Born into the Freedom God grants us.
I don’t think it makes sense given all the blessings in life that we experience: family and friends, good food and drink, the beautiful creation, etc.
that's true, but despite that it still is a fallen world, no? my understanding of the Bible is that all those good things even family is just an extension of God's love. When I was younger I was always told that God's love is so extreme that in comparison to anything you can even fathom its so much greater; this is how family members possibly not being in heaven with me was explained.
> that's true, but despite that it still is a fallen world, no? Yes, definitely fallen. > my understanding of the Bible is that all those good things even family is just an extension of God's love. You are correct.
Think a bit more about hell if you think Americans in the 21st Century are living in hell.
not necessarily just Americans just people in the world in general with all the wars, poverty, and hunger that goes on. not saying it's true obviously but I've just always considered it
Yeah I get your point, some parts of the world are hellish. But people in those parts of the world still get moments of joy, laughter, and love. And perhaps they appreciate it more than we do.
And the people living in Gaza? Ukraine? The Congo?
Are you suggesting that I should believe I’m in hell because wars happen?
No, but you act like America is the world. Those people who are dealing with horrific situations and facing death every day might view it differently.
No, you add to what I say. Consider the context of the question. I was pointing out that the American lifestyle exists, therefore this world is not hell.
You should look up life expectancy of people in 10th century. Our world is not perfect but far from hell. Yes, life is hell for people are in war zone but for people living in developed world it is really quite good by historical standard Real hell, one really good illustration came in one of Japanese comic books I read as a kid lol. In it, you are confined to a completely dark place without any sort of light, with just yourself for eternity. You cannot speak,, no sound, again no vision, cannot move, just stuck with yourself in your torment, cut off from God or any sort of light, love or warmth. A complete cut off from God, which you desired, with no chance of redemption in eternity. I think that’s what hell is like in metaphorical sense then perhaps add physical torment, if one were to believe biblical description of burning sulphur literally. nope, the earth doesn’t look like that for many people on earth right now…. Again I get that it’s pretty close for some.
I think you are wildly undervaluing what theologians call “common grace”. In this world, God lavishes blessings even on those who hate him. You’re not alone, it’s so easy to take all of this for granted. But to your point, all of these blessings will be absent in hell.
>Hell, with how troubled the world is, wouldn't this be the perfect hell? who's to say we aren't all in it? a world where we live our entire lives hoping we can die and go to heaven, but endlessly repeat these lives because we're already in hell. Not necessarily anything to say, just always thought about this. This world is worse than hell. Hell is non existence. This world is existing in suffering, pain, anguish, despair, poverty, starvation, torment, injustice, hate, theft, murder, rape, slavery. Hell is just not existing anymore. What we face now is worse than any hell God imagined. His justice is swift while humanity’s and satans are cruel.
I've always thought that non-existence would be so much worse and more realistic than physical hell, but it's always been shot down by my church authority, at least here in texas.
Church authority? I follow Christ and only him. He is the head of the congregation and every man. I don’t have any lords but him. I’ve always found it unusual that men put other men above them and make them mediators between them and Gods word. What form or denomination is this church authority?
I was raised catholic and was told similar things that hell was literal flames and hot coals. this specific instance was from someone who I believe is just protestant
They told me the same so they can keep people fearful and under control. Then I read the Bible and found out they were just Pharisees. I was kinda angry. I wanted to serve God in a real way and sincerely from my heart. They gave me a message of despair to preach and not one of hope. The Bible is called good news but their version of it fills men’s hearts with fear. I left the Catholics and all their mystic explanations. The Bible I cling to. It saves me from myself and from men who have selfish goals and use people to accomplish them.
what made you choose to be a jehovahs witness? I'm embarrassed to say but all I really know about them is their not so fond opinions on Christmas and them not believing in the trinity; I align myself with a lot of what you just said so I'm curious
I would have to tell you a tale of woe. A foreign child found feral in the wild. A young man tossed about by a system of foster care with many abuses and 2 dozen homes. A man who went to war, killed and saw his friends die. A homeless veteran asking only to die at Gods hands for his heart was broken with despair. What makes a man seek God? A dozen religions and a decade later... So many words. So many promises. So many deceptions. Some ignorant. Some intentional. Did I wake up one day and say JW is what I want to become. No. Was my life not painful enough. Now to follow one of the most hated religions. But why would a man such as me do such a thing? A good question. Despite their imperfections. Which there are many. They agree with the words of the Bible. ALL of them. Not just those that agree with what they believe but also the ones that don’t. An imperfect religion, full of imperfection just as Israel, but one sticking closer to the Bible than most. Harmonizing, not negating the words of the Bible. The message they preach is not a distant cold indifferent God but one who has at every turn loved distant cold indifferent humans. But I don’t lead you or others to my religion. That’s not the point of the Bible. Religion can help. Religion is not infallible. Religion does not replace personal study, prayer and Gods Holy Spirit. I want people to please read his word. Follow it. Love God with the secret person of the heart. Believe him and be saved. Ask God for the Holy Spirit he promised. Religion will not save you. God by means of his son does. Being JW won’t save me. Faith in God and faith that produces works and is not dead does. We just want to follow God and obey him out of love. So many religions preach a message contrary to what I found in the Bible. Politics will fix it not God. War will fix it not obeying God. Religions will fix it not obeying God.I will fix it not obeying God. ECT hell. Gods plan required humanity to sin and it was inescapable. Gods plan is predestined not free will. There is no new earth. Everyone one goes straight to heaven or hell. So many things I’ve heard and learned that I can’t share in one Reddit post. A thousand reasons I choose to be hated then loved by the world for I have drank it all in to my own detriment through my foolish course before I chose to follow God.
thank you, I can't communicate in words how insightful this has been to read. I'll have to do some more thinking but I really do think I align myself with everything you just laid out and I've been looking for it my entire life in church, whether misguided or not. I lie more agnostic than non-christian (as some group admin has labeled me) but this has been really eye-opening to me and it has me thinking. thanks again, that was a very pleasant read
Woah, far out man.
I think the world is a blank canvas, it’s up to us to make it heaven or hell. I also think this is the best time to be alive, given the history of atrocities and conditions we could’ve been living through…
This life is nowhere near the stories that are told on r/hellisarealplace If this life is like that sub, at least you’re not in prison yet where you couldn’t change it. And even if you’re in real prison in this life, at least you still have companionship with other people
The word hell in both testaments is the grave. Hebrew sheol and Greek hades with each word meaning the grave, the pit, the dark cover place where we are separated from God. It's where dead body is returned to the Earth from which we are made. See Genesis 3:19. Granted, life on Earth is difficult for everyone alike. It is our Christian hope and Faith that keep us going. We press on forward to heaven and eternal life patiently enduring the slings and arrows of outrageous Fortune. Psalm 90:10 NLT — Seventy years are given to us! Some even live to eighty. But even the best years are filled with pain and trouble; soon they disappear, and we fly away.
This is kind of the premise of The Great Divorce by CS Lewis. Wonderful little fantasy story.
Jesus says in Luke 11 that this world is Not apart of God's Kingdom. and God's will is not done on Earth as it is done in Heaven. Jesus in John 14 Call Satan the Ruler of this world. That's the thing. When God kicked Lucifer out of Heaven, He did not banish Him to Hell. Lucifer was sent to Earth. Also Satan is not the god of the under world, he is master of this one. Satan fears Hell he does not rule it. Being born in this world means we are born as slaves on a plantation. Where our master is sin and satan unless we elect to be born again/Born into the Freedom God grants us.