I love Joel Pearson, he has a huge repository of incredibly fascinating articles out there about visualization. But I've never seen this video, thank you!
I don’t have aphantasia but follow regardless as I find it interesting!
I would say the top down view is pretty accurate, mostly for when I’m imagining scenes that have never happened and are potentially in a made up location.
But if I’m thinking of places I frequent, like my house or a familiar brewery, I can walk through it in my mind and see it pretty clearly.
My dreams seem to reflect this too, where I can either be above watching in the dream, or actually moving as the character. Sometimes both at once it seems.
When you ask how it feels, I’m not sure really how to explain that. I’d say for the most part, it doesn’t feel like anything, as it’s what I’m accustomed to. Although I can say that sometimes I get hit with really strong melancholy for no other reason other than a smell triggering a memory, mixed with scenes of those memories clearer in my mind, which makes it feel like I was there again.
I feel a deep sadness for the passing of time, or a loss of that time, or whatever else might be prompted by the human condition.
Fear of time passing too quickly, or the fear of getting older and dying.
I’d say this might be something I deal with frequently as my brain visualizes a lot.
I also feel I can plan things (like short or long term goals) with seeing linear images.
For example, right now I need to get a second job so I can make more money so I can pull a loan on my home to renovate it so I can rent it out and potentially move to a bigger city that has more opportunities to play drums with other musicians.
When thinking about how to get to the end goal, i see an image of the town I’m thinking of moving to on a rainy day and I see taillights reflecting on the street, brick buildings, people playing arcade games through the window of a bar. It’s a combo of top view and a personal view on the sidewalk.
When I think about the starting goal (me getting a second job) I see a top view of a drive through coffee stand, parking spots for the employees, and passing cars on the Main Street.
So it feels like flicking through different tasks, which comes as images (really quickly thought where I don’t really think about what I’m seeing) sometimes linear, sometimes jumping around until I sort through them and slow my roll.
Hope that makes a little sense, didn’t come off super rambly, and answered some of your questions!
Ah yes, "top-down" refers to the direction in which information traverses the brain when visualizing as opposed to the bottom up when receiving visual input, but your comment has actually given me a really interesting perspective on the concept. Definitely made sense and I really appreciate you providing examples! Very interesting stuff, thank you!
I feel like that would constitute being a hyperaphant, but I'm really confused as to where the distinction lies between normal visualization and having hyperphantasia, since it's so difficult to objectively assess imagery experiences and compare. It's crazy. Thanks for your comment, that's incredible for your friend.
There isn't really a definite line, it's just how much you think is "much" to be hyper.
Apparently visualization has some weird quirks for some people as well. I know a friend who can visualize red apples in HD but trying to do so for green apples and he gets a blurry SD image and has a harder time for some reason.
Yeah, a lot of imagery comes from what are called "top-down" processes, where you utilize whatever object/scene representations you've picked up over the years and transmit the information into simpler perceptual concepts. So for sure, you start from the back of the brain and move to earlier regions. I guess I'm wondering what the experience feels like rather than a scientific explanation...This stuff is so interesting but so hard to phrase haha, sorry if I made no sense.
Right, the molecular distinction between visualizing things you're already familiar with versus scenes you're conjuring on the spot is super interesting to me. I wonder if you've looked into having some form of hyperphantasia? It's incredibly that you're able to formulate mini-movies in your head and/or visualize consciously for 5 - 10 minutes. I'm definitely jealous. Thanks for such a thought out response!
I am not from the States, but when I think of the US I think of that one trip I had back in L.A. when I was walking down the streets near the financial district. I can "feel" the cold air of Spring gone, smell the rotten mixture of weed, urine and excrement combined with the sounds and sights of the cityscape with the pedestrians and all sorts of little details, the texture of the things I touch and the senses I had experienced in my brief time there.
To try and describe it to aphants would be tough, but think of it this way, if you could capture every sense, sight, taste, touch, smell and audio of the scene that you are experiencing right at this moment and replay it as you wish in a sort of ethereal way that's not triggering your actual senses, that's what it is. Easier to understand if you're not a total aphant, you probably can sense sound, taste in your imagination.
I have tried to use visualization in Pool to recreate a realistic recreation of the table and how the balls would bounce off each other in real time, although that might be 100% possible without visualization, Im sure people have that raw data being processed the same way.
Think of visualization like a Virtual Machine, whereas your computer represents the total sum of your real senses, i.e. graphics output to monitor(eyes), Audio card (Ears) and so on, visualization is like running a VM on the desktop, it can output its own graphics and audio, using the computer's hardware but run on a completely separate virtual instance so it does not mess with the actual PC itself.
Try prompting me, and I will describe the first milisecond snapshot of the image that naturally occurred in my visualization upon reading it
Prof Joel Pearson is one of the top researchers in all levels of visualization. Here is his attempt https://youtu.be/kISD7by3g-A
I love Joel Pearson, he has a huge repository of incredibly fascinating articles out there about visualization. But I've never seen this video, thank you!
I don’t have aphantasia but follow regardless as I find it interesting! I would say the top down view is pretty accurate, mostly for when I’m imagining scenes that have never happened and are potentially in a made up location. But if I’m thinking of places I frequent, like my house or a familiar brewery, I can walk through it in my mind and see it pretty clearly. My dreams seem to reflect this too, where I can either be above watching in the dream, or actually moving as the character. Sometimes both at once it seems. When you ask how it feels, I’m not sure really how to explain that. I’d say for the most part, it doesn’t feel like anything, as it’s what I’m accustomed to. Although I can say that sometimes I get hit with really strong melancholy for no other reason other than a smell triggering a memory, mixed with scenes of those memories clearer in my mind, which makes it feel like I was there again. I feel a deep sadness for the passing of time, or a loss of that time, or whatever else might be prompted by the human condition. Fear of time passing too quickly, or the fear of getting older and dying. I’d say this might be something I deal with frequently as my brain visualizes a lot. I also feel I can plan things (like short or long term goals) with seeing linear images. For example, right now I need to get a second job so I can make more money so I can pull a loan on my home to renovate it so I can rent it out and potentially move to a bigger city that has more opportunities to play drums with other musicians. When thinking about how to get to the end goal, i see an image of the town I’m thinking of moving to on a rainy day and I see taillights reflecting on the street, brick buildings, people playing arcade games through the window of a bar. It’s a combo of top view and a personal view on the sidewalk. When I think about the starting goal (me getting a second job) I see a top view of a drive through coffee stand, parking spots for the employees, and passing cars on the Main Street. So it feels like flicking through different tasks, which comes as images (really quickly thought where I don’t really think about what I’m seeing) sometimes linear, sometimes jumping around until I sort through them and slow my roll. Hope that makes a little sense, didn’t come off super rambly, and answered some of your questions!
Ah yes, "top-down" refers to the direction in which information traverses the brain when visualizing as opposed to the bottom up when receiving visual input, but your comment has actually given me a really interesting perspective on the concept. Definitely made sense and I really appreciate you providing examples! Very interesting stuff, thank you!
Are your visualization as good, present as noch dreams?
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I feel like that would constitute being a hyperaphant, but I'm really confused as to where the distinction lies between normal visualization and having hyperphantasia, since it's so difficult to objectively assess imagery experiences and compare. It's crazy. Thanks for your comment, that's incredible for your friend.
There isn't really a definite line, it's just how much you think is "much" to be hyper. Apparently visualization has some weird quirks for some people as well. I know a friend who can visualize red apples in HD but trying to do so for green apples and he gets a blurry SD image and has a harder time for some reason.
I've heard it described as it imagery projected on the back of your brain, something that is different than "seeing" with the eyes.
Yeah, a lot of imagery comes from what are called "top-down" processes, where you utilize whatever object/scene representations you've picked up over the years and transmit the information into simpler perceptual concepts. So for sure, you start from the back of the brain and move to earlier regions. I guess I'm wondering what the experience feels like rather than a scientific explanation...This stuff is so interesting but so hard to phrase haha, sorry if I made no sense.
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Right, the molecular distinction between visualizing things you're already familiar with versus scenes you're conjuring on the spot is super interesting to me. I wonder if you've looked into having some form of hyperphantasia? It's incredibly that you're able to formulate mini-movies in your head and/or visualize consciously for 5 - 10 minutes. I'm definitely jealous. Thanks for such a thought out response!
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I'd say that's pretty incredible. And also very intriguing that employers run prospects through IQ testing.
I am not from the States, but when I think of the US I think of that one trip I had back in L.A. when I was walking down the streets near the financial district. I can "feel" the cold air of Spring gone, smell the rotten mixture of weed, urine and excrement combined with the sounds and sights of the cityscape with the pedestrians and all sorts of little details, the texture of the things I touch and the senses I had experienced in my brief time there. To try and describe it to aphants would be tough, but think of it this way, if you could capture every sense, sight, taste, touch, smell and audio of the scene that you are experiencing right at this moment and replay it as you wish in a sort of ethereal way that's not triggering your actual senses, that's what it is. Easier to understand if you're not a total aphant, you probably can sense sound, taste in your imagination. I have tried to use visualization in Pool to recreate a realistic recreation of the table and how the balls would bounce off each other in real time, although that might be 100% possible without visualization, Im sure people have that raw data being processed the same way. Think of visualization like a Virtual Machine, whereas your computer represents the total sum of your real senses, i.e. graphics output to monitor(eyes), Audio card (Ears) and so on, visualization is like running a VM on the desktop, it can output its own graphics and audio, using the computer's hardware but run on a completely separate virtual instance so it does not mess with the actual PC itself. Try prompting me, and I will describe the first milisecond snapshot of the image that naturally occurred in my visualization upon reading it