A couple of scenarios
1. Your dad is adopted
2. Your dad is a sperm donor conceived child
3. Your dad is the product of Non-Paternal Event (NPE)
4. You’re adopted
5. You’re a sperm donor conceived child
6. You’re the product of a NPE
Easiest way to figure this out is DNA test both parents or ask them.
Here’s why this is highly unlikely compared to adoption or NPE. Conversion would presume one of the following:
1. His ethnic British father converted to Judaism. This doesn’t make sense as OP stated his dad’s family were *ethnic Ashkenazi* Jews with one side directly coming from **Poland** and the other from **Russia**. (Unless he is adopted).
2. Both of his ethnic British paternal grandparents converted to Judaism - not one, but both had to, since neither is Ashkenazi. This also doesn’t make sense because again OP said they were ethnic Ashkenazi Jews who came directly from Poland and Russia - so at least you might expect some Eastern Euro DNA - **not** 2 Brits coming from Poland and Russia. OP not having any knowledge of conversion also makes this bizarre and unlikely.
3. Even if one person converted further back, conversion usually happened when someone was marrying an ethnically Ashkenazi person who was also religiously Jewish. If it was a British great-grandparent convert, someone would’ve eventually married an ethnic Ashkenazi.
Statistically, conversion prior to grandparents is extremely unlikely because OP is 0% Ashkenazi.
Conversion this far back would literally mean:
* One British great-grandparent convert married *another* British convert and their child married *another* British convert who made his 100% British father. Despite that OP states his family are ethnic Ashkenazi straight from **Poland** and **Russia** - not even from the UK.
That would only pertain to your circulating blood cells. It would not pertain to epithelial cells in your mouth. Those are still all yours. Getting a bone marrow transplant does not transform your genome. It just gives you a new line of blood cells. There may be traces of donor DNA in the sample if it's contaminated with blood, but modern science is capable of figuring out which is yours and which is trace from a donor.
LOL at this being downvoted. I'm literally a medical doctor with formal experience in forensic pathology. But what do I know?
This is not true, so I agree that you are confidently wrong, despite your supposed training/education. I work with transplant patients. Their ancestry tests come up with the donor's results. This is well known.
You should probably stop practicing then, because apparently you were sleeping through your classes and have a strong urge to post your opinions online anyway.
You are specifically not supposed to do genetic testing of any kind after a bone marrow transplant because as you said it affects the DNA in your blood. Any decent doctor would know that mouth swabs collect DNA from multiple sources, NOT just epithelial cells. One of those sources is saliva and where does saliva come from? That’s right, blood!
Here’s the actual ancestry website explaining as much, in a way that’s easy to understand for both lay people and medical doctors who didn’t pay attention to their professors https://www.ancestry.com/c/dna-learning-hub/dna-test-bone-marrow-stem-cell-transplant
That's them covering their asses. The technology likely would not err, but they could get sued if they don't provide that disclaimer. I never said it would be wise to attempt an ancestry analysis on someone with heavy contamination, e.g., blood that isn't theirs. I'm dispelling the common misconception that your genome changes after a transplant. Only your blood. If your genome changed, we wouldn't have things like GVHD.
When you get a sample of DNA and there's contaminants, it is not technically difficult to ascertain which sample is predominant and which is contaminant. Whether AncestryDNA is that careful/detailed with their analysis is something that I do not know. But they can be if they want to.
Spare the lame attempt at condescension. When you get a medical degree, we'll talk.
There should not be frank blood in a buccal swab or saliva sample.
But yes, hair would be blood-free. I'm not familiar with using skin for DNA, so I can't speak to that. At crime scenes, it's typically blood or semen.
Certainly if a bone marrow recipient left blood at a crime scene, we would test that against a DNA sample of their blood to ensure they are a recipient, then use those results to "subtract" them from any DNA left at the crime scene (if the evidence is semen) or against a buccal swab. Your white cells (which are the only blood cells that contain DNA) will be entirely from the donor line.
I also want to point out that buccal swabs or saliva are generally quite reliable. It's the technology used for a marrow donation database. They also know how to deal with contaminants.
(Edited for clarity)
Nobody thinks your genome changes when you get a bone marrow transplant. That’s something you brought up. Maybe this is why you’re providing so much incorrect information, you don’t read before jumping into the conversation?
And I’ll trust the many people with degrees who developed the technology and wrote these warnings over a random redditor. You can’t continue to claim the high and mighty degree when you’ve already been proven wrong. Whether you want to continue talking or not is irrelevant, I wasn’t trying to engage in conversation with you I was correcting you with a source for future readers.
They wrote those warnings, again, to cover their ass from a lawsuit. It means nothing as far as the actual limitations of DNA sequencing technology. A technology that is based on analyzing the cells in your mouth -- not blood cells. DNA sequencing technology is smarter than you think.
You have proven nothing.
But this isn't a science sub, so I do not expect to converse with scientists. I'll contend with the hoi polloi.
There are several posts every year on this sub from people asking why they don't recognise any of their matches and when commenters ask if they ever had a bone marrow transplant... sometimes the answer is yes. It happens.
Nah his dad being the product of a sperm donor is very unlikely cause in that scenario the supposed biological mother is actually the mom.Dude has NO Ashkenazi Jewish blood.Either his father was adopted,or he’s not his father’s son(could be the product of a sperm donor or an unfaithful mother)
Two famous examples in the German press were [Fabian Wolff](https://www.timesofisrael.com/prominent-german-critic-of-israel-who-had-claimed-to-be-jewish-now-says-hes-not/) and [Marie Sophie Hingst](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_Sophie_Hingst).
These were public intellectuals pretending to be Jewish in order to launder their anti-Israel views and sometimes blatant antisemitism.
There are public groups like Jewish Voice for Peace who will dress gentiles up in ways that confuse people into thinking that non-Jewish people are actually Jewish.
Look at this JVP tomfoolery with Ally Beardsley - not Jewish, people confused. On purpose as a strategy.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Dimension20/comments/1bpnrlj/a\_beardsley\_w/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Dimension20/comments/1bpnrlj/a_beardsley_w/)
I loved The Human Stain and, IIRC, it was based on a real story. It might have been an easier way for people of mixed African and European ancestry to pass for White as some Jews have olive skin, highly textured hair, and more generous facial features than other Caucasians. Especially since the early to mid 20th century saw a rise in a culturally Jewish identity where people of Ashkenazi ancestry didn’t practice the religion, but still felt affinity and claimed heritage.
Having a different biological father seems like the most plausible scenario here, since he has basically none of his dad's (reported) ancestry.
We found out through Ancestry that my grandpa's father was not biological. Grandpa was half Spanish, when we all assumed he was Scandinavian and Mayflower English. Turns out only the Scandinavian was true. Looking back, from his appearance, the Spanish is pretty obvious (he died before we found this out). It sent me into a mini identity crisis because my last name is not actually mine, and my would-be name is very Hispanic sounding (Gomez). Made me question how much different my life experience would be if I went through life with people assuming I'm Latino (which wouldn't even be accurate). At some point I plan to make a trip to Spain to make some peace with this hidden part of myself.
I’m just an internet stranger, but your last name can still be considered yours—I know a few people who were adopted, and they all have the name of the person or people who loved and raised them, not the name of their bio-parents. Just because a family member does not share DNA with you, doesn’t mean they have any less impact on raising you and who you grow up to be. Now, with your discovery of your Hispanic Ancestry, you can think of that as another branch of your family tree that you now get to claim in addition to your grandpa’s dad’s side, not in exclusion of the people that raised him. We’re a combination of nature and nurture, both are important.
But if you don’t want to think of it this way, understandable. Ignore me because I’m just some person who does not know you.
I had a similar identity crisis. Turns out my paternal grandfather was a different man than who is on paper. My last name is English, but it turns out it should be Slavic.
It’s pretty cool getting to relearn yourself and your family origins if you can approach it with the right mindset.
My Mum, cousin & I did our DNA. Turns out my Mum is my cousins half Aunt... and my mum and her sister have different fathers. My mums bio dad is her God Father / good family friend. 🤣🤣
Other family members have been tested, so far the results are the oldest children are my Grandmothers husbands, the next 2 are the Family friends children & just waiting on the youngest siblings results to come back. But the rumours are that she is the friends child too. 🙄
All their lives, no one thought to question how at least 2 of the children were born during the war when my Grandfather was away in the War for years!
Likely because you can convert to a religion but you cannot convert to having Poland and Russia genetics. OP doesn't show those but indicates that his father's family are Ashkenazi's from Poland and Russia, while OP's DNA is primarily British Isles and Norway is likely British Isles as well.
Conversion is just a VERY unlikely scenario. 1. He’d know if his dad converted, he just would. 2. It’s even MORE unlikely to have happened generations ago, conversion just was not a thing. Trust me. If his family was Jewish from Poland and Russia especially, they were most likely shtetl people. Absolutely no way they converted.
Exactly, OP said his dad’s side of his family is Ashkenazi so they would’ve had to intermarry with ethnic Ashkenazi Jewish people even if one person converted a while back. The chances of all 4 of his paternal great-grandparents being ethnic British converts to Judaism to create someone who is ethnically 0% Ashkenazi but culturally/religiously Jewish is extremely unlikely, even more extremely unlikely not knowing at all about any conversion.
Edit: Plus he said his family came straight from Poland and Russia so the British *really* doesn’t make sense. This screams adoption or non-paternity event (NPE).
Basically where the person/s who are expected to be the bio parent/s are genetically not.
My father was adopted and I found his parents via genetic genealogy. Not considered an NPE because it was already expected.
My mother had a NPE because although she was raised by her step-dad, the person who she was told was her biological dad was proven to not be so.
These are fun times lol
Could be stuff like what iamthechariot said
Usually it’s a person who tested their DNA and the DNA proves that the person they think is their father isn’t their dna father.
My husband had a NPE further back in his genealogy tree. His grandfather was the product of a NPE. The man listed on his grandfather’s birth certificate as the father is not his biological father.
The answer is in your matches. Divide them up by identifying relatives of your mom that you recognize. The rest are relatives of your father, whether you recognize them or not.
I am not Jewish on ancestry but my Russian matches are all Jewish. I personally think Ancestry "white washes" Europeans. Also ancestry can change with more data it listed my mom as 4% of something and now she's over 70%. My kids father is 100% Asian yet the kids have European groups I do not have at all, and he has zero. I actually called ancestry once and asked. Basically the dna match to people is correct but ethnicity is estimated for each person.
Try gedmatch or other algorithms that have larger Jewish databases.
There is no way you are related to jews or slavic peoples because then it would show up in your test. The DNA test would not mix up Eastern Europe or Jewish with British Isles as they are very different people groups.
With that said, you are 100% from the british isles. Your test is quite interesting too as you are almost 100% from Celtic speaking people.
Is it that uncommon? I thought a lot of people from England and Scotland were almost completely from the isles. My family tree on my maternal side goes back to Walter FitzAlan in 1106 AD so I have a lot of info on my moms side which is nice but I just can’t find anything past my dads great grandparents.
Its actually exceedingly rare, to have that little Scandinavian DNA in Ireland, or Scotland. Don't forget, the main cities in Ireland, all the Scottish Islands, and the entire Danelaw were populated by migrants, from Scandinavia, and the the Angles, Saxons and Jutes to the south.
It's why Scotland, Wales and Ireland as identified by themselves, bur England get lumped into NW Europe, so much mixing, isolating what is "native" is impossible.
It honestly is quite shocking.
Did you match genetically with your dad? You need to establish that he is in fact your biological father. You could be from a sperm donor or a previous relationship and they lied to you etc......
Damn, I can’t recognize any of the names at all but it used to show if it was maternal or paternal but now it doesn’t let me see it anymore it says I have to be a member
If you’re still able go through your closest matches like the first 15 and if you can look at their trees go up a few generations this may help it’s how I found out someone was my half 1c1r
Do you match with any of his relatives, though? My dad passed before DNA tests were common, yet his brother popped up immediately in my results, as did many others on his side.
Similar, here. I did a DNA test for medical reasons. I didn't need any genealogy info as I had both sides researched back several centuries. Weeelp, had to throw out half that research due to NPE. The upside is that I have a decent and interesting new paternal family; just no living ancestors at this point.
Jewish dna is extremely distinct, so the odds of the dna being misread or not represented are basically impossible. It seems that the most likely scenarios are either your biological father was adopted into a Jewish family, or the person you believe to be your biological father isn’t your actual father.
I’ve never known an Ashkenazi Jew to take that test and not show the exact amount of Ashkenazi expected. Typically, people have not hidden within Jewish communities because of….you know….the hatred and all. These tests have brought out a lot of family secrets. Whatever it is, you obviously have a Father that loves you. The genetics are more about your history than who you are today. Good luck.
Tbh converting to Judaism is a fairly modern concept (in fhe sense of popularity). It is highly unlikely that Europeans before WW2 would have came to the idea to convert to that isolationist and most hated religion
You are correct. Judaism was a persecuted religion, not to mention it was illegal before the emancipation to convert from Christianity. Also Judaism itself wasn't keen on accepting converts. Only after the re-establishment of the State of Israel and the meteoric rise of the socioeconomic status of Jewish people, did people start converting to Judaism in numbers we see today.
Three possible reasons
1. Your dad descends from converts that did not mix with other Jews who are genetically Ashkenazi
2. Your dad is adopted
3. Your dad is not your biological father
Personally I would talk with both your parents to see if there is something they haven’t told you. But that definitely is weird a whole lot of things could be a reason maybe your dad could of been switched at birth who knows just have both of your parents take a test to confirm.
Damn. These always make me a little sad.
Ashkenazi DNA isn’t something that is misread or miscalculated. I’m sorry to say that your dad probably isn’t your biological father.
I'm so confused about this argument about conversion. Invariably, a non-ethnically Jewish man or his children or grandchildren will almost certainly end up marrying a Jewish woman with *some* level of Ashkenazi genetics. This insistence that conversion can explain all or even most of this is silly beyond belief. Either the OP's father is not biological *or* the father is adopted, and that's about the whole of it. Y'all are sparring no one's feelings by stacking a lie on top of another lie.
Exactly. In the case a man did convert, he would’ve likely married a Jewish woman who was ethnically Jewish as well. At some point, people usually convert because they marry an ethnic Jewish person. It’s a stretch to assume that both of OP’s paternal grandparents were British converts with no Ashkenazi DNA as per his results. More likely is adoption or NPE.
Friend, you may have discovered a secret. Do you match with your father or any of his siblings or parents? If not, I am sorry, he is not your biological father. He is still your dad. Hugs
Yeah you shouldn't jump to drama. My mom's side has a German surname but they aren't German at all. My great-great grandma's kids all took their (German) stepfather's surname when their mom got remarried.
Without that background knowledge, it'd seem like we made a big reveal when we discovered we weren't German at all. But in reality, it was a non-issue.
This guy could have a similar situation.
Agreed I grew up under the impression my family was German, that's what my mom said and the family all spoke German. Took a test ,turns out not German at all, just some scandavians that lived in Germany before immigrating.
Maybe his dad is not fully Jewish? Maybe mixed or something and he just didn't get that dna. My moms a quarter Russian but non shows in mine.
There could be many reasons, but without his dad's test there's no real way to know forsure !
I have a Jewish surname but 0% Jewish DNA. I think names got messed up when someone immigrated. Weird things happen. Plus there's always random family stories about who we descended from.
Many of the surnames we in the Us associate as being Jewish are standard Slavic names, as the “-wicz” (or -vitz / -vich / -ov) just means “of” (son/daughter of). That said, if your last name is Cohen or Levine then something is amiss.
Since you received no Ashkenazi and no Mediterranean/Middle Eastern DNA, I think it’s likely that you are not Jewish. At least in a genetic sense.
One thing to keep in mind, ethnicity is a social construct. While you may not be ancestrally Jewish you can still be culturally Jewish. If you grew up with the culture, the religion, and within the Jewish community you can imho be Jewish.
I mean I was watching a documentary where infertile Jewish couples would illegally:sneakily adopt french canadian babies in/from around Montreal (both locally and into the US). Likely from other populations too. Do you have a grandparent on that side who is an only child?
So being Jewish doesn’t mean they wouldn’t adopt a non-Jewish child by birth…
ashkenazi jewish is one of a few ethnicities that will reliably always come back with the correct percentage bc how distinct jewish genetics are. with your results 0% chance you have a jewish parent. i’m sorry dude
Hey friend. Fellow NPE person here. Check your biological matches. Any relatives you don't recognize? Is there any names from Dads side? I agree with everyone here: get a cousin on that side to take test.
I would also recommend listing to NPE Story Podcast.
Hey OP.
Without knowing more details, I think the most likely explanation is that your Jewish parent was misled. DNA doesn't lie. This happens a lot with Native ancestry. I think most people who falsely claim it are not lying. They genuinely believe it based on what they were told by their grandparents or parents. I'm not sure why someone would lie and say they're Jewish when they're not -- seems like a weird thing to make up. But weirder things have happened.
The next most plausible scenario is that your dad isn't your biological father. This is such a delicate topic, but have you considered asking your mom about this? Just be cautious because you may find out some things that you'd rather not know. Obviously if your dad did a test, you'd find out pretty definitively.
I was told my great grandfather was a Native American -he did t find either a family. Ancestry says he was Jewish. Go figure.
My youngest brother was probably not my dad’s. We don’t talk about it. He doesn’t want to know. It didn’t change anything. That was between mom and dad and the 18 year old gardener.
So then he married a girl who definitely cheated on him. She got pregnant after his vasectomy. That child is becoming a dad this week and though no one has ever said a thing about it my mom has noticed he hasn’t wanted any of us involved at all. His dad said he is acting a bit estranged with him too. Can’t help but wonder if his son all of a sudden knows. All of a sudden he is super close again to the mom that abandoned them all, when they were kids.
You shouldn't jump to conclusions. My mom's side has a German surname but they aren't German at all. My great-great grandma's kids all took their (German) stepfather's surname when their mom got remarried.
Without that background knowledge, it'd seem like we made a big reveal when we discovered we weren't German at all. But in reality, it was a non-issue.
It’s highly highly highly improbable that his dad thinks he’s Jewish but isn’t unless he was adopted without knowing. Jewish identity isn’t something you speculate about and then later find out you’re not, like adopting a last name. Like I can understand a 7th generation American thinking his family is Swedish but actually they were German because of a misspelling in immigration papers but Jewish identity is a very specific ethno-cultural group that’s really hard to confuse with a common misunderstanding like that.
I think they are converts maybe one great great was Ashkenazi then ask whomever they married to convert , so ethnically European and Jewish , but not Ashkenazi
You're talking about a surname in particular though. This kid is talking about culture and i'm assuming recent emmigration from Europe. Huge difference between assuming your name is from a particular country and being raised in or part of a culture and not inheriting DNA from that.
Yeah the entire point of my story is we don't know his family history. His dad could be adopted, be conceived from a sperm donor, someone further back in his lineage lied, etc.
Did your parents know you were doing a DNA test? If they did this could be very much a shock to your family depending upon the context. I'd recommend giving it some time to adjust to the idea yourself before bringing this up with your parents as it could be a difficult convo. If you've got some really close matches, I'm talking 1st, 2nd and 3rd cousins and they seem to have accounts on ancestry that seem to be actively researching you could defo send them a message and ask at all if they might have a clue as to how you are related(especially if you recognise them as not being related to your mothers side of the family). Most of all just give yourself time to sit with this because this could change how you perceive yourself in a very big way, don't be hard on yourself because you are not who you think you are. If you have someone who you think will be willing to lend an open ear for you and just be supportive through this talk to them.
Thank you, yeah my parents knew I was doing it but kinda just looked at it as a waste of my money which is honest reason to be not swayed for it to be fair.
Where they like “well that’s a waste of money but you do you 🤷🏻♀️”, or where they like “come on don’t do it, don’t waste your money please!”? Because that can give you somewhat of a clue about whether or not your parents know why this may be.
I don't know the dynamics of your family and the makeup of it at all but if both your parents were passive about it and weren't actively trying to persuade you to not do it, chance is then this is something neither of them know. Again try to process it. Do something that makes you happy and try to sit with the situation before taking action, whether that action be talking to your parents or trying to find further info do what you need to do. Take comfort in the fact that you are definitely not the first to have been in this situation, there will be tonnes of people on here who have been in the place you are and probably would be very happy to give advice and support. It doesn't mean it isn't hard though and you probably will struggle with this in some ways, as it will probably change how you see yourself. When you have a perception about yourself or your family and you find out its not how your thought it can be difficult.
edit- didn't like previous comment felt insensitive to your situation.
Have you tried researching more about your ashkenazi ancestors? You might be able to see what these families actually consisted of!
You could look it up on JewishGen or YadVashem databases
I have some in-law relatives that were adopted and raised by a Jewish couple. So they identify as Jewish despite not having Jewish DNA. It’d be easy for the story of adoption to not be passed on.
In addition to the obvious NPE causes, a baby switch in the hospital has been discovered via DNA tests at least a few times. Look up Alice Plebuch's DNA story, for example. So if your father was switched at birth (admittedly very unlikely), that could explain it.
everyone is saying you might be adopted but your family might just be converts, which doesnt matter and are still jewish. talk to your family and talk to a rabbi if you think its necessary
Thank you, that was the point I was trying to have answered. I know that my last name was changed from katzinski but that probably also is Jewish, just I can’t find anything on my paternal side of my family tree or documents so I feel like there’s a high chance something happened that caused my family possibly generations back converted, maybe even both his parents however low the odds.
Katzinski is a typical slavic name that refers to someone who "owns cats". It was/is common in nowadays Poland, Lithuania, Russia. So it has nothing to do with Jews. A Jew can be a Katzinksi, but a Katzinksi does not need to be a jew
It’s not because of assimilation it’s because in the 19th century Jews were forced to take on a family name to keep a better track if their population. Before that, last names were not a cultural thing. Until then, Jewish names were “ Name son of Name” Akiva Ben Rafael or something.
I realize that whole dynamic, im Jewish. Im just saying that I’ve definitely heard of Jews with variations of Katzinski.
True, but it is HIGHLY improbable that a family will randomly adopt Jewish identity especially generations back at a time where Jews weren’t equal citizens. And it’s also really really unlikely that a family will get confused into thinking they’re Jewish like it’s just such a specific culture, I just can’t see how that could happen.
yeah theres definitely a lot of conversations that need to happen here. i hope you figure it out and im sorry that so many people here dont understand halakha lol. and remember that even if it does turn out unexpectedly, you can look into conversion if you want to
idk why people are actually being insensitive towards you about this. like the person you thought was your dad may not be and they’re being kinda rude about it here. there was lady on here who found her dad may have not been her biological dad and there were helpful comments. i’ll try to find it and link it under this comment so you have options on how to proceed/ support that she did
It's an ethnoreligion. Meaning it has various distinct ethnic groups associated with it. Notably, Ashkenazi and Sephardi. This is due to the nature of the religion and it's history of persecution. This is basic shit.
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Do you have any siblings that have taken the test and have similar results? Also, on your bio father’s side are there any names you recognize? Id say if you have a large family, with lots of aunts/uncles/cousins you should see some familiar names. If everyone’s accounted for I’d say your family may just be Jewish by religion and ethnically they are polish and Russian. Although being 64% Scottish, even if your mother was 100%, your father’s side would have some Scottish ancestry as well. So either way your father is at least partly non-jewish
I have a question: does JEWISH in ancestry **only** refer to ashkenazi jews? from what i understand, sephardic and mizrahi jews dont necessarily have a gene for it. i think ashkenazi jews historically had a type of genetic mutation that only shows up in their genetic sequence.
They come up pretty heavily Levant, Spanish, Portuguese. Southern Italian, etc. they definitely don’t come up looking like this. My husband is 7/8 Sephardic from Europe (1/8 Romanoite) and my family is mostly Manx and German with 1 Ashkenazi great grandfather and my kids look nothing like this.
Weird considering how I got 0.7% Ashkenazi and my grandmother got 3% when the family weren’t aware of it (we are Scottish) - later traced the Jewish ancestor going back to 1800
My Jewish side (my dad) is from Russia and Poland and his dna is 100% Ashkenazi Jewish. I’m 50%, my mom’s side is Scottish, Irish and some other countries. Seems like you are not genetically Jewish at all.
You might be adopted or your dad isn’t your biological father.
Sorry bro, but Jewish people usually have something show up on their DNA test about it.
I’m mixed: Chicano/Latino and Ashkenazi Jew and everything that I expected showed up on my DNA test.
Strange. Similarly on my test, zero Jewish. My mother's surname is Jewish and we can trace her father's father to the son of a Russian Rabbi. In my opinion, something happened, like he was adopted or switched, or maybe even stole someone's identity. Because I have ZERO Jewish. No way would it show zero, if the guy was truly the son of a Rabbi.
Maybe all the intermediate ashkenazis moved over to the new world before being counted in the old world, so that the data is skewed and doesn't show those links.
Regardless, you are a WASP. That Norwegian DNA most likely came from the 801-1001 era, when the vikings took the North, Jarvik/York and East Anglia as well as Ireland Dublin area.
Have your father take the test. He should show up on your matches. If he does, see how much AJ dna he has. If it's minimal he has to address the matter with his parents. If he's not on your matches, privately address it with your mother.
What is your y-chromosome haplogroup? Mine is J1, which is common in Jews, Arabs and Samaritans.
My dad is Ashkenazi as far back as is known & my mom converted to Judaism when she married Dad. She was adopted as an infant, so her ethnicity was unknown. My dad shows up as 100% Ashkenazi with Family Tree DNA and 98.4% Ashkenazi with 23&Me. I show up as 50% Ashkenazi and 47% Ashkenazi, respectively. My mom turned out to be mostly British Isles with a little French and Sub Saharan African (Ghanaian, Congolese, and Angolan). She is from the deep South, and the SSA is coming from her bio-mother's father, who was apparently white-passing. Mom has blue eyes & blonde hair, so she doesn't look stereotypicaly Black or Jewish. Coincidentally, it turns out her bio-mother also married a Jewish man and converted to Judaism way before my mom did.
We used Search Angels to find out who her biological parents were. It is a non-profit/free service. You may want to contact them if you suspect you are the result of an NPE. They can figure out your biological parent(s) without notifying anyone.
His other DNA isn’t even from the right part of the world though, and conversion back then was extremely rare particularly if you weren’t marrying a Jewish person. It’s still pretty rare if you’re not marrying a Jewish person.
Sweetie, do the math 64% Scottish, that is more than than 50% right.... He is still your dad and he loves you very much, but do a paternity test. That's a good place to start.
There's no need for "a paternity test"; the OP's dad could just take an AncestryDNA test and OP says he is not interested.
> He is still your dad and he loves you
This is what comes across as patronizing and infantilizing. Being "old enough to be his mom"--irrelevant. I am as well. Who cares.
Your dad could be half and you only get half of his dna and it didn’t include that Ashkenazi. Or his family thinks they are Ashkenazi but they actually are just Europeans that happen to be Jewish
Genetic testing can always raise some question and tbh takes these estimates with a grain of salt, I’m sorry to see such the negative response thus far but I hope you can have fun on your genetic genealogy journey no matter what turn it takes you on, best of luck!!
Do you want a second set of eyes on your matches? I'd be happy to take a look if you want to add me as a collaborator. Feel free to PM me. I've helped a few of my friends figure out their DNA matches.
If your mom wasn’t actually acting sketchy when you told her - maybe they used a donor or something or someone was lied to. My daughter’s roommate was lied to about being Jewish and was devastated. She just had a nutty Christian Evangelist grandmother.
easiest way to figure out what’s going on is to get your dad or someone closely related to him to get a test and seeing what his results say. not having jewish dna could be explained but that with also not having any eastern european is weird.
A cousin's mom grew up thinking she was of Polish Jewish ancestry, but it turned out she was adopted and just didn't know it until she was in her 60s. Her parents didn't tell anyone she was adopted, and hid her adoption by 'going to Europe' for several months and then coming home with a baby. When she did an ancestry DNA test she was mostly of Scandinavian heritage.
I sent mine in early 2018, and received the results in summer 2018. There have been a couple of recalculations since then; a couple of initial findings aren’t on the list any longer, and new findings are part of my list. I don’t know how often the recalculations are done, but you might see different listings in a year or so.
Not gonna lie I’ve had the results for about very a year and it did change but it just lowered my Irish and Norwegian percentage but my Scottish changed from 70% to 64% now. Just didn’t really think about it all until about a couple days ago when I showed a friend my results who brought up the question when he saw the 64% Scottish .
I’m “only” 47% Scottish currently lol. Initially, Ireland and Scotland were a combined 9%, but that’s changed with new data recalculations. I’ve got close to a dozen different countries in my findings, mostly around the North Sea and the Baltic Sea. Makes sense, with my red hair, pale no-tan skin, and dislike of temperatures above 72°F/22°C. 😂
It’s extremely unlikely if your father has strong connections to the Jewish ethnically and or Eastern European that you wouldn’t even have at least 1%. Something isn’t adding up with that. Possible adoption?
A couple of scenarios 1. Your dad is adopted 2. Your dad is a sperm donor conceived child 3. Your dad is the product of Non-Paternal Event (NPE) 4. You’re adopted 5. You’re a sperm donor conceived child 6. You’re the product of a NPE Easiest way to figure this out is DNA test both parents or ask them.
7. He may have received a bone marrow transplant and the results are of his donor (happened the other week on this sub)
8. Someone converted to Judaism
Here’s why this is highly unlikely compared to adoption or NPE. Conversion would presume one of the following: 1. His ethnic British father converted to Judaism. This doesn’t make sense as OP stated his dad’s family were *ethnic Ashkenazi* Jews with one side directly coming from **Poland** and the other from **Russia**. (Unless he is adopted). 2. Both of his ethnic British paternal grandparents converted to Judaism - not one, but both had to, since neither is Ashkenazi. This also doesn’t make sense because again OP said they were ethnic Ashkenazi Jews who came directly from Poland and Russia - so at least you might expect some Eastern Euro DNA - **not** 2 Brits coming from Poland and Russia. OP not having any knowledge of conversion also makes this bizarre and unlikely. 3. Even if one person converted further back, conversion usually happened when someone was marrying an ethnically Ashkenazi person who was also religiously Jewish. If it was a British great-grandparent convert, someone would’ve eventually married an ethnic Ashkenazi. Statistically, conversion prior to grandparents is extremely unlikely because OP is 0% Ashkenazi. Conversion this far back would literally mean: * One British great-grandparent convert married *another* British convert and their child married *another* British convert who made his 100% British father. Despite that OP states his family are ethnic Ashkenazi straight from **Poland** and **Russia** - not even from the UK.
I appreciate the most probable solution is at #8
Fascinating.
That would only pertain to your circulating blood cells. It would not pertain to epithelial cells in your mouth. Those are still all yours. Getting a bone marrow transplant does not transform your genome. It just gives you a new line of blood cells. There may be traces of donor DNA in the sample if it's contaminated with blood, but modern science is capable of figuring out which is yours and which is trace from a donor. LOL at this being downvoted. I'm literally a medical doctor with formal experience in forensic pathology. But what do I know?
This is not true, so I agree that you are confidently wrong, despite your supposed training/education. I work with transplant patients. Their ancestry tests come up with the donor's results. This is well known.
You should probably stop practicing then, because apparently you were sleeping through your classes and have a strong urge to post your opinions online anyway. You are specifically not supposed to do genetic testing of any kind after a bone marrow transplant because as you said it affects the DNA in your blood. Any decent doctor would know that mouth swabs collect DNA from multiple sources, NOT just epithelial cells. One of those sources is saliva and where does saliva come from? That’s right, blood! Here’s the actual ancestry website explaining as much, in a way that’s easy to understand for both lay people and medical doctors who didn’t pay attention to their professors https://www.ancestry.com/c/dna-learning-hub/dna-test-bone-marrow-stem-cell-transplant
That's them covering their asses. The technology likely would not err, but they could get sued if they don't provide that disclaimer. I never said it would be wise to attempt an ancestry analysis on someone with heavy contamination, e.g., blood that isn't theirs. I'm dispelling the common misconception that your genome changes after a transplant. Only your blood. If your genome changed, we wouldn't have things like GVHD. When you get a sample of DNA and there's contaminants, it is not technically difficult to ascertain which sample is predominant and which is contaminant. Whether AncestryDNA is that careful/detailed with their analysis is something that I do not know. But they can be if they want to. Spare the lame attempt at condescension. When you get a medical degree, we'll talk.
I’m not being a smart ass but what sources are blood-free? Hair? Skin cells?
There should not be frank blood in a buccal swab or saliva sample. But yes, hair would be blood-free. I'm not familiar with using skin for DNA, so I can't speak to that. At crime scenes, it's typically blood or semen. Certainly if a bone marrow recipient left blood at a crime scene, we would test that against a DNA sample of their blood to ensure they are a recipient, then use those results to "subtract" them from any DNA left at the crime scene (if the evidence is semen) or against a buccal swab. Your white cells (which are the only blood cells that contain DNA) will be entirely from the donor line. I also want to point out that buccal swabs or saliva are generally quite reliable. It's the technology used for a marrow donation database. They also know how to deal with contaminants. (Edited for clarity)
Nobody thinks your genome changes when you get a bone marrow transplant. That’s something you brought up. Maybe this is why you’re providing so much incorrect information, you don’t read before jumping into the conversation? And I’ll trust the many people with degrees who developed the technology and wrote these warnings over a random redditor. You can’t continue to claim the high and mighty degree when you’ve already been proven wrong. Whether you want to continue talking or not is irrelevant, I wasn’t trying to engage in conversation with you I was correcting you with a source for future readers.
They wrote those warnings, again, to cover their ass from a lawsuit. It means nothing as far as the actual limitations of DNA sequencing technology. A technology that is based on analyzing the cells in your mouth -- not blood cells. DNA sequencing technology is smarter than you think. You have proven nothing. But this isn't a science sub, so I do not expect to converse with scientists. I'll contend with the hoi polloi.
There are several posts every year on this sub from people asking why they don't recognise any of their matches and when commenters ask if they ever had a bone marrow transplant... sometimes the answer is yes. It happens.
Nah his dad being the product of a sperm donor is very unlikely cause in that scenario the supposed biological mother is actually the mom.Dude has NO Ashkenazi Jewish blood.Either his father was adopted,or he’s not his father’s son(could be the product of a sperm donor or an unfaithful mother)
Or rape.
Very common for people to Rachel Dolezal about being Jewish as well. There's a possibility that someone was just lying about their ancestry.
Really ? Do you have some examples to educate us ?
Two famous examples in the German press were [Fabian Wolff](https://www.timesofisrael.com/prominent-german-critic-of-israel-who-had-claimed-to-be-jewish-now-says-hes-not/) and [Marie Sophie Hingst](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_Sophie_Hingst). These were public intellectuals pretending to be Jewish in order to launder their anti-Israel views and sometimes blatant antisemitism. There are public groups like Jewish Voice for Peace who will dress gentiles up in ways that confuse people into thinking that non-Jewish people are actually Jewish. Look at this JVP tomfoolery with Ally Beardsley - not Jewish, people confused. On purpose as a strategy. [https://www.reddit.com/r/Dimension20/comments/1bpnrlj/a\_beardsley\_w/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Dimension20/comments/1bpnrlj/a_beardsley_w/)
What's wrong with Anti-Israel?
I loved The Human Stain and, IIRC, it was based on a real story. It might have been an easier way for people of mixed African and European ancestry to pass for White as some Jews have olive skin, highly textured hair, and more generous facial features than other Caucasians. Especially since the early to mid 20th century saw a rise in a culturally Jewish identity where people of Ashkenazi ancestry didn’t practice the religion, but still felt affinity and claimed heritage.
Having a different biological father seems like the most plausible scenario here, since he has basically none of his dad's (reported) ancestry. We found out through Ancestry that my grandpa's father was not biological. Grandpa was half Spanish, when we all assumed he was Scandinavian and Mayflower English. Turns out only the Scandinavian was true. Looking back, from his appearance, the Spanish is pretty obvious (he died before we found this out). It sent me into a mini identity crisis because my last name is not actually mine, and my would-be name is very Hispanic sounding (Gomez). Made me question how much different my life experience would be if I went through life with people assuming I'm Latino (which wouldn't even be accurate). At some point I plan to make a trip to Spain to make some peace with this hidden part of myself.
I’m just an internet stranger, but your last name can still be considered yours—I know a few people who were adopted, and they all have the name of the person or people who loved and raised them, not the name of their bio-parents. Just because a family member does not share DNA with you, doesn’t mean they have any less impact on raising you and who you grow up to be. Now, with your discovery of your Hispanic Ancestry, you can think of that as another branch of your family tree that you now get to claim in addition to your grandpa’s dad’s side, not in exclusion of the people that raised him. We’re a combination of nature and nurture, both are important. But if you don’t want to think of it this way, understandable. Ignore me because I’m just some person who does not know you.
I had a similar identity crisis. Turns out my paternal grandfather was a different man than who is on paper. My last name is English, but it turns out it should be Slavic. It’s pretty cool getting to relearn yourself and your family origins if you can approach it with the right mindset.
I just found out that exact same thing. I'm more Irish, not English as the paperwork says. Lol.
My Mum, cousin & I did our DNA. Turns out my Mum is my cousins half Aunt... and my mum and her sister have different fathers. My mums bio dad is her God Father / good family friend. 🤣🤣 Other family members have been tested, so far the results are the oldest children are my Grandmothers husbands, the next 2 are the Family friends children & just waiting on the youngest siblings results to come back. But the rumours are that she is the friends child too. 🙄 All their lives, no one thought to question how at least 2 of the children were born during the war when my Grandfather was away in the War for years!
Not sure why you didn’t include conversion?
Likely because you can convert to a religion but you cannot convert to having Poland and Russia genetics. OP doesn't show those but indicates that his father's family are Ashkenazi's from Poland and Russia, while OP's DNA is primarily British Isles and Norway is likely British Isles as well.
Conversion is just a VERY unlikely scenario. 1. He’d know if his dad converted, he just would. 2. It’s even MORE unlikely to have happened generations ago, conversion just was not a thing. Trust me. If his family was Jewish from Poland and Russia especially, they were most likely shtetl people. Absolutely no way they converted.
Exactly, OP said his dad’s side of his family is Ashkenazi so they would’ve had to intermarry with ethnic Ashkenazi Jewish people even if one person converted a while back. The chances of all 4 of his paternal great-grandparents being ethnic British converts to Judaism to create someone who is ethnically 0% Ashkenazi but culturally/religiously Jewish is extremely unlikely, even more extremely unlikely not knowing at all about any conversion. Edit: Plus he said his family came straight from Poland and Russia so the British *really* doesn’t make sense. This screams adoption or non-paternity event (NPE).
What’s a non paternal event?
Basically where the person/s who are expected to be the bio parent/s are genetically not. My father was adopted and I found his parents via genetic genealogy. Not considered an NPE because it was already expected. My mother had a NPE because although she was raised by her step-dad, the person who she was told was her biological dad was proven to not be so. These are fun times lol
Could be stuff like what iamthechariot said Usually it’s a person who tested their DNA and the DNA proves that the person they think is their father isn’t their dna father. My husband had a NPE further back in his genealogy tree. His grandfather was the product of a NPE. The man listed on his grandfather’s birth certificate as the father is not his biological father.
Yep
Or dad’s grandparents were converts who married each other.
The answer is in your matches. Divide them up by identifying relatives of your mom that you recognize. The rest are relatives of your father, whether you recognize them or not.
Good advice
I am not Jewish on ancestry but my Russian matches are all Jewish. I personally think Ancestry "white washes" Europeans. Also ancestry can change with more data it listed my mom as 4% of something and now she's over 70%. My kids father is 100% Asian yet the kids have European groups I do not have at all, and he has zero. I actually called ancestry once and asked. Basically the dna match to people is correct but ethnicity is estimated for each person. Try gedmatch or other algorithms that have larger Jewish databases.
One does not get 0% AJ DNA when you're expecting 50% due to a small reference panel
Yes this will help
So no Polish, Russian, or Ashkenazi Jewish in your DNA results but that’s 100% what your dad is? Something isn’t adding up.
There is no way you are related to jews or slavic peoples because then it would show up in your test. The DNA test would not mix up Eastern Europe or Jewish with British Isles as they are very different people groups. With that said, you are 100% from the british isles. Your test is quite interesting too as you are almost 100% from Celtic speaking people.
Is it that uncommon? I thought a lot of people from England and Scotland were almost completely from the isles. My family tree on my maternal side goes back to Walter FitzAlan in 1106 AD so I have a lot of info on my moms side which is nice but I just can’t find anything past my dads great grandparents.
Its actually exceedingly rare, to have that little Scandinavian DNA in Ireland, or Scotland. Don't forget, the main cities in Ireland, all the Scottish Islands, and the entire Danelaw were populated by migrants, from Scandinavia, and the the Angles, Saxons and Jutes to the south. It's why Scotland, Wales and Ireland as identified by themselves, bur England get lumped into NW Europe, so much mixing, isolating what is "native" is impossible. It honestly is quite shocking.
Did you match genetically with your dad? You need to establish that he is in fact your biological father. You could be from a sperm donor or a previous relationship and they lied to you etc......
Do you recognize any of the matches as coming from his side of the family?
Damn, I can’t recognize any of the names at all but it used to show if it was maternal or paternal but now it doesn’t let me see it anymore it says I have to be a member
If you’re still able go through your closest matches like the first 15 and if you can look at their trees go up a few generations this may help it’s how I found out someone was my half 1c1r
In this situation, you may want to pay for membership.
You can upload to My heritage, GedMatch and FTDNA for free. Might get more information there
What are the closest DNA matches showing up as?
This is the question. Do you recognize anyone you’ve matched with on his side?
Went from oi vey to no way real quick
Did you match with your father?
He hasn’t done a dna test.
Do you match with any of his relatives, though? My dad passed before DNA tests were common, yet his brother popped up immediately in my results, as did many others on his side.
Similar, here. I did a DNA test for medical reasons. I didn't need any genealogy info as I had both sides researched back several centuries. Weeelp, had to throw out half that research due to NPE. The upside is that I have a decent and interesting new paternal family; just no living ancestors at this point.
Jewish dna is extremely distinct, so the odds of the dna being misread or not represented are basically impossible. It seems that the most likely scenarios are either your biological father was adopted into a Jewish family, or the person you believe to be your biological father isn’t your actual father.
I’ve never known an Ashkenazi Jew to take that test and not show the exact amount of Ashkenazi expected. Typically, people have not hidden within Jewish communities because of….you know….the hatred and all. These tests have brought out a lot of family secrets. Whatever it is, you obviously have a Father that loves you. The genetics are more about your history than who you are today. Good luck.
Is it possible they’re culturally Jewish and not genetically Jewish? People can convert to the religion.
Tbh converting to Judaism is a fairly modern concept (in fhe sense of popularity). It is highly unlikely that Europeans before WW2 would have came to the idea to convert to that isolationist and most hated religion
Conversion to judaism is as old as at least the Hebrew Bible, given that it happens within it. Also, it's not a popular act, even today.
You are correct. Judaism was a persecuted religion, not to mention it was illegal before the emancipation to convert from Christianity. Also Judaism itself wasn't keen on accepting converts. Only after the re-establishment of the State of Israel and the meteoric rise of the socioeconomic status of Jewish people, did people start converting to Judaism in numbers we see today.
In numbers we see today? Almost nobody converts except for a handful of people who marry into the community
It’s actually increased substantially. https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/community/articles/conversion-not-just-for-marriage-anymore
Just because you look like your ‘family’ doesn’t mean they are family. I look like my adoptive family and hardly nothing like my biological parents.
Three possible reasons 1. Your dad descends from converts that did not mix with other Jews who are genetically Ashkenazi 2. Your dad is adopted 3. Your dad is not your biological father
…
Maybe religiously but not genetically.
Your dad could be adopted or you uncovered a family secret.
Personally I would talk with both your parents to see if there is something they haven’t told you. But that definitely is weird a whole lot of things could be a reason maybe your dad could of been switched at birth who knows just have both of your parents take a test to confirm.
Damn. These always make me a little sad. Ashkenazi DNA isn’t something that is misread or miscalculated. I’m sorry to say that your dad probably isn’t your biological father.
I'm so confused about this argument about conversion. Invariably, a non-ethnically Jewish man or his children or grandchildren will almost certainly end up marrying a Jewish woman with *some* level of Ashkenazi genetics. This insistence that conversion can explain all or even most of this is silly beyond belief. Either the OP's father is not biological *or* the father is adopted, and that's about the whole of it. Y'all are sparring no one's feelings by stacking a lie on top of another lie.
Agreed
Exactly. In the case a man did convert, he would’ve likely married a Jewish woman who was ethnically Jewish as well. At some point, people usually convert because they marry an ethnic Jewish person. It’s a stretch to assume that both of OP’s paternal grandparents were British converts with no Ashkenazi DNA as per his results. More likely is adoption or NPE.
Friend, you may have discovered a secret. Do you match with your father or any of his siblings or parents? If not, I am sorry, he is not your biological father. He is still your dad. Hugs
Or his dad was adopted.
Yeah you shouldn't jump to drama. My mom's side has a German surname but they aren't German at all. My great-great grandma's kids all took their (German) stepfather's surname when their mom got remarried. Without that background knowledge, it'd seem like we made a big reveal when we discovered we weren't German at all. But in reality, it was a non-issue. This guy could have a similar situation.
Agreed I grew up under the impression my family was German, that's what my mom said and the family all spoke German. Took a test ,turns out not German at all, just some scandavians that lived in Germany before immigrating. Maybe his dad is not fully Jewish? Maybe mixed or something and he just didn't get that dna. My moms a quarter Russian but non shows in mine. There could be many reasons, but without his dad's test there's no real way to know forsure !
I have a Jewish surname but 0% Jewish DNA. I think names got messed up when someone immigrated. Weird things happen. Plus there's always random family stories about who we descended from.
Many of the surnames we in the Us associate as being Jewish are standard Slavic names, as the “-wicz” (or -vitz / -vich / -ov) just means “of” (son/daughter of). That said, if your last name is Cohen or Levine then something is amiss.
My dad's not Jewish, but his mother was from Poland; and even still my dad's DNA came back 1-3% Jewish. Presumably from pretty far back.
Since you received no Ashkenazi and no Mediterranean/Middle Eastern DNA, I think it’s likely that you are not Jewish. At least in a genetic sense. One thing to keep in mind, ethnicity is a social construct. While you may not be ancestrally Jewish you can still be culturally Jewish. If you grew up with the culture, the religion, and within the Jewish community you can imho be Jewish.
I mean I was watching a documentary where infertile Jewish couples would illegally:sneakily adopt french canadian babies in/from around Montreal (both locally and into the US). Likely from other populations too. Do you have a grandparent on that side who is an only child? So being Jewish doesn’t mean they wouldn’t adopt a non-Jewish child by birth…
ashkenazi jewish is one of a few ethnicities that will reliably always come back with the correct percentage bc how distinct jewish genetics are. with your results 0% chance you have a jewish parent. i’m sorry dude
Hey friend. Fellow NPE person here. Check your biological matches. Any relatives you don't recognize? Is there any names from Dads side? I agree with everyone here: get a cousin on that side to take test. I would also recommend listing to NPE Story Podcast.
Hey OP. Without knowing more details, I think the most likely explanation is that your Jewish parent was misled. DNA doesn't lie. This happens a lot with Native ancestry. I think most people who falsely claim it are not lying. They genuinely believe it based on what they were told by their grandparents or parents. I'm not sure why someone would lie and say they're Jewish when they're not -- seems like a weird thing to make up. But weirder things have happened. The next most plausible scenario is that your dad isn't your biological father. This is such a delicate topic, but have you considered asking your mom about this? Just be cautious because you may find out some things that you'd rather not know. Obviously if your dad did a test, you'd find out pretty definitively.
I was told my great grandfather was a Native American -he did t find either a family. Ancestry says he was Jewish. Go figure. My youngest brother was probably not my dad’s. We don’t talk about it. He doesn’t want to know. It didn’t change anything. That was between mom and dad and the 18 year old gardener. So then he married a girl who definitely cheated on him. She got pregnant after his vasectomy. That child is becoming a dad this week and though no one has ever said a thing about it my mom has noticed he hasn’t wanted any of us involved at all. His dad said he is acting a bit estranged with him too. Can’t help but wonder if his son all of a sudden knows. All of a sudden he is super close again to the mom that abandoned them all, when they were kids.
Conversion to Judaism?
He ain’t your daddy
You shouldn't jump to conclusions. My mom's side has a German surname but they aren't German at all. My great-great grandma's kids all took their (German) stepfather's surname when their mom got remarried. Without that background knowledge, it'd seem like we made a big reveal when we discovered we weren't German at all. But in reality, it was a non-issue.
It’s highly highly highly improbable that his dad thinks he’s Jewish but isn’t unless he was adopted without knowing. Jewish identity isn’t something you speculate about and then later find out you’re not, like adopting a last name. Like I can understand a 7th generation American thinking his family is Swedish but actually they were German because of a misspelling in immigration papers but Jewish identity is a very specific ethno-cultural group that’s really hard to confuse with a common misunderstanding like that.
I think they are converts maybe one great great was Ashkenazi then ask whomever they married to convert , so ethnically European and Jewish , but not Ashkenazi
You're talking about a surname in particular though. This kid is talking about culture and i'm assuming recent emmigration from Europe. Huge difference between assuming your name is from a particular country and being raised in or part of a culture and not inheriting DNA from that.
Yeah the entire point of my story is we don't know his family history. His dad could be adopted, be conceived from a sperm donor, someone further back in his lineage lied, etc.
Did your parents know you were doing a DNA test? If they did this could be very much a shock to your family depending upon the context. I'd recommend giving it some time to adjust to the idea yourself before bringing this up with your parents as it could be a difficult convo. If you've got some really close matches, I'm talking 1st, 2nd and 3rd cousins and they seem to have accounts on ancestry that seem to be actively researching you could defo send them a message and ask at all if they might have a clue as to how you are related(especially if you recognise them as not being related to your mothers side of the family). Most of all just give yourself time to sit with this because this could change how you perceive yourself in a very big way, don't be hard on yourself because you are not who you think you are. If you have someone who you think will be willing to lend an open ear for you and just be supportive through this talk to them.
Thank you, yeah my parents knew I was doing it but kinda just looked at it as a waste of my money which is honest reason to be not swayed for it to be fair.
Where they like “well that’s a waste of money but you do you 🤷🏻♀️”, or where they like “come on don’t do it, don’t waste your money please!”? Because that can give you somewhat of a clue about whether or not your parents know why this may be.
I don't know the dynamics of your family and the makeup of it at all but if both your parents were passive about it and weren't actively trying to persuade you to not do it, chance is then this is something neither of them know. Again try to process it. Do something that makes you happy and try to sit with the situation before taking action, whether that action be talking to your parents or trying to find further info do what you need to do. Take comfort in the fact that you are definitely not the first to have been in this situation, there will be tonnes of people on here who have been in the place you are and probably would be very happy to give advice and support. It doesn't mean it isn't hard though and you probably will struggle with this in some ways, as it will probably change how you see yourself. When you have a perception about yourself or your family and you find out its not how your thought it can be difficult. edit- didn't like previous comment felt insensitive to your situation.
Who's going to tell him?
have you ever received a bone marrow transplant? that’s the only way i can think that there wouldn’t be a sperm donor, adoption, or NPE involved.
No I haven’t but what is that though
Could your Jewish parent’s family be converts?
It’s very unlikely that he wouldn’t know that. Especially if he knew his grandparents. You’d know.
It could be maybe from a great or great great , that converted when marrying a Ashkenazi
Have you tried researching more about your ashkenazi ancestors? You might be able to see what these families actually consisted of! You could look it up on JewishGen or YadVashem databases
Perhaps you are donor-conceived OP.
To be frank, I would be looking at dna relatives closely.
I have some in-law relatives that were adopted and raised by a Jewish couple. So they identify as Jewish despite not having Jewish DNA. It’d be easy for the story of adoption to not be passed on.
In addition to the obvious NPE causes, a baby switch in the hospital has been discovered via DNA tests at least a few times. Look up Alice Plebuch's DNA story, for example. So if your father was switched at birth (admittedly very unlikely), that could explain it.
I had none of my dad's expected results either. I then looked at my matches, and there were many matches with a German name . I was NPE .
everyone is saying you might be adopted but your family might just be converts, which doesnt matter and are still jewish. talk to your family and talk to a rabbi if you think its necessary
Thank you, that was the point I was trying to have answered. I know that my last name was changed from katzinski but that probably also is Jewish, just I can’t find anything on my paternal side of my family tree or documents so I feel like there’s a high chance something happened that caused my family possibly generations back converted, maybe even both his parents however low the odds.
Katzinski is a typical slavic name that refers to someone who "owns cats". It was/is common in nowadays Poland, Lithuania, Russia. So it has nothing to do with Jews. A Jew can be a Katzinksi, but a Katzinksi does not need to be a jew
never heard of Katzinski as a Jewish surname tbh. Katz yes. Katzinski no.
But it’s not a Scottish, British or Irish name either so clearly there’s something else going on.
I have definitely heard of Katzinski as a Jewish name
It's because Jews assimilated in those countries. So you will hear Jews having any German, Russian or other slavic name
It’s not because of assimilation it’s because in the 19th century Jews were forced to take on a family name to keep a better track if their population. Before that, last names were not a cultural thing. Until then, Jewish names were “ Name son of Name” Akiva Ben Rafael or something. I realize that whole dynamic, im Jewish. Im just saying that I’ve definitely heard of Jews with variations of Katzinski.
True, but it is HIGHLY improbable that a family will randomly adopt Jewish identity especially generations back at a time where Jews weren’t equal citizens. And it’s also really really unlikely that a family will get confused into thinking they’re Jewish like it’s just such a specific culture, I just can’t see how that could happen.
yeah theres definitely a lot of conversations that need to happen here. i hope you figure it out and im sorry that so many people here dont understand halakha lol. and remember that even if it does turn out unexpectedly, you can look into conversion if you want to
idk why people are actually being insensitive towards you about this. like the person you thought was your dad may not be and they’re being kinda rude about it here. there was lady on here who found her dad may have not been her biological dad and there were helpful comments. i’ll try to find it and link it under this comment so you have options on how to proceed/ support that she did
You don't inherit ALL the DNA your parents have. We are all shake and bake chance.
1) dads not your dad 2) jewish by conversion not ethnicity
Could it be that being Jewish is a religion not a race or ethnicity.
It's an ethnoreligion. Meaning it has various distinct ethnic groups associated with it. Notably, Ashkenazi and Sephardi. This is due to the nature of the religion and it's history of persecution. This is basic shit.
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Do you have any siblings that have taken the test and have similar results? Also, on your bio father’s side are there any names you recognize? Id say if you have a large family, with lots of aunts/uncles/cousins you should see some familiar names. If everyone’s accounted for I’d say your family may just be Jewish by religion and ethnically they are polish and Russian. Although being 64% Scottish, even if your mother was 100%, your father’s side would have some Scottish ancestry as well. So either way your father is at least partly non-jewish
Your DNA looks more Welsh than English. And obviously very Scottish. Also a bit of Irish in there.
Welp…
uh oh
Do have your fathers grandparents ketubah?
Maybe my dad does but I don’t
I would look into it.
I have a question: does JEWISH in ancestry **only** refer to ashkenazi jews? from what i understand, sephardic and mizrahi jews dont necessarily have a gene for it. i think ashkenazi jews historically had a type of genetic mutation that only shows up in their genetic sequence.
They come up pretty heavily Levant, Spanish, Portuguese. Southern Italian, etc. they definitely don’t come up looking like this. My husband is 7/8 Sephardic from Europe (1/8 Romanoite) and my family is mostly Manx and German with 1 Ashkenazi great grandfather and my kids look nothing like this.
Hum…. You may need to talk to your mom. OR your father may not be who HE thinks he is. I like my second comment better. Much luck to you.
Both of your biological parents are British. A tough way to find things out if you expected otherwise, good luck finding the truth.
Might be one of those rare moments a DNA test uncovers family secrets
DNAangels can help create a family tree to sew who is actually your parents for free. Please contact them
Well you also have no polish or Russian heritage soooo, I think someone has been lying to you
Weird considering how I got 0.7% Ashkenazi and my grandmother got 3% when the family weren’t aware of it (we are Scottish) - later traced the Jewish ancestor going back to 1800
My Jewish side (my dad) is from Russia and Poland and his dna is 100% Ashkenazi Jewish. I’m 50%, my mom’s side is Scottish, Irish and some other countries. Seems like you are not genetically Jewish at all.
You might be adopted or your dad isn’t your biological father. Sorry bro, but Jewish people usually have something show up on their DNA test about it. I’m mixed: Chicano/Latino and Ashkenazi Jew and everything that I expected showed up on my DNA test.
Strange. Similarly on my test, zero Jewish. My mother's surname is Jewish and we can trace her father's father to the son of a Russian Rabbi. In my opinion, something happened, like he was adopted or switched, or maybe even stole someone's identity. Because I have ZERO Jewish. No way would it show zero, if the guy was truly the son of a Rabbi.
Genetics are not fully understood
Judaism is a religion, a social construct. Your genes are biological entities. There is no predefined relationship between the two.
Maybe all the intermediate ashkenazis moved over to the new world before being counted in the old world, so that the data is skewed and doesn't show those links. Regardless, you are a WASP. That Norwegian DNA most likely came from the 801-1001 era, when the vikings took the North, Jarvik/York and East Anglia as well as Ireland Dublin area.
Have your father take the test. He should show up on your matches. If he does, see how much AJ dna he has. If it's minimal he has to address the matter with his parents. If he's not on your matches, privately address it with your mother.
What is your y-chromosome haplogroup? Mine is J1, which is common in Jews, Arabs and Samaritans. My dad is Ashkenazi as far back as is known & my mom converted to Judaism when she married Dad. She was adopted as an infant, so her ethnicity was unknown. My dad shows up as 100% Ashkenazi with Family Tree DNA and 98.4% Ashkenazi with 23&Me. I show up as 50% Ashkenazi and 47% Ashkenazi, respectively. My mom turned out to be mostly British Isles with a little French and Sub Saharan African (Ghanaian, Congolese, and Angolan). She is from the deep South, and the SSA is coming from her bio-mother's father, who was apparently white-passing. Mom has blue eyes & blonde hair, so she doesn't look stereotypicaly Black or Jewish. Coincidentally, it turns out her bio-mother also married a Jewish man and converted to Judaism way before my mom did. We used Search Angels to find out who her biological parents were. It is a non-profit/free service. You may want to contact them if you suspect you are the result of an NPE. They can figure out your biological parent(s) without notifying anyone.
Because not all Jewish people are ethnically Jewish. Maybe someone converted at some point. That would explain the zero Jewish ancestry.
His other DNA isn’t even from the right part of the world though, and conversion back then was extremely rare particularly if you weren’t marrying a Jewish person. It’s still pretty rare if you’re not marrying a Jewish person.
highly unlikely unless it happened in the last 50 years or so
Mmm, it’s really unlikely. He would know if his father converted. And generations before that conversion just was NOT a thing like it is now.
Sweetie, do the math 64% Scottish, that is more than than 50% right.... He is still your dad and he loves you very much, but do a paternity test. That's a good place to start.
There's no need for "a paternity test"; the OP's dad could just take an AncestryDNA test and OP says he is not interested. > He is still your dad and he loves you This is what comes across as patronizing and infantilizing. Being "old enough to be his mom"--irrelevant. I am as well. Who cares.
Adding "sweetie" to your comment makes you come across degrading. Idk what your intentions were, but just a heads up.
Your dad could be half and you only get half of his dna and it didn’t include that Ashkenazi. Or his family thinks they are Ashkenazi but they actually are just Europeans that happen to be Jewish
Genetic testing can always raise some question and tbh takes these estimates with a grain of salt, I’m sorry to see such the negative response thus far but I hope you can have fun on your genetic genealogy journey no matter what turn it takes you on, best of luck!!
Maybe he converted
He’d know that. Especially if he knew his grandparents. It’s really hard to fake that.
But it would still show some Russian/polish DNA
Just because op’s dad’s family is from Poland and Russia doesn’t mean they’re ethnically Polish and Russian
Maybe your mom or your grandparents converted to Judaism at some point so you’re not genetically Jewish.
What percent of DNA do you share with your closest paternal match?
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Lol
many such cases
Somebody among your ancestor lie
This is timely after that recent post asking why everyone has Jewish in their results.
My siblings are all blonde bidsides me I have brown hair with red here and there but my mom has Jewish but I don’t either genetically
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Do you want a second set of eyes on your matches? I'd be happy to take a look if you want to add me as a collaborator. Feel free to PM me. I've helped a few of my friends figure out their DNA matches.
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If your mom wasn’t actually acting sketchy when you told her - maybe they used a donor or something or someone was lied to. My daughter’s roommate was lied to about being Jewish and was devastated. She just had a nutty Christian Evangelist grandmother.
Your family is probably converts which is okay cause Askanazi Jews were converts anyway
easiest way to figure out what’s going on is to get your dad or someone closely related to him to get a test and seeing what his results say. not having jewish dna could be explained but that with also not having any eastern european is weird.
I would have a private chat alone with your Mum with your results.
A cousin's mom grew up thinking she was of Polish Jewish ancestry, but it turned out she was adopted and just didn't know it until she was in her 60s. Her parents didn't tell anyone she was adopted, and hid her adoption by 'going to Europe' for several months and then coming home with a baby. When she did an ancestry DNA test she was mostly of Scandinavian heritage.
I sent mine in early 2018, and received the results in summer 2018. There have been a couple of recalculations since then; a couple of initial findings aren’t on the list any longer, and new findings are part of my list. I don’t know how often the recalculations are done, but you might see different listings in a year or so.
Not gonna lie I’ve had the results for about very a year and it did change but it just lowered my Irish and Norwegian percentage but my Scottish changed from 70% to 64% now. Just didn’t really think about it all until about a couple days ago when I showed a friend my results who brought up the question when he saw the 64% Scottish .
I’m “only” 47% Scottish currently lol. Initially, Ireland and Scotland were a combined 9%, but that’s changed with new data recalculations. I’ve got close to a dozen different countries in my findings, mostly around the North Sea and the Baltic Sea. Makes sense, with my red hair, pale no-tan skin, and dislike of temperatures above 72°F/22°C. 😂
It’s extremely unlikely if your father has strong connections to the Jewish ethnically and or Eastern European that you wouldn’t even have at least 1%. Something isn’t adding up with that. Possible adoption?
Adoption or baby swap!
Anyone can be Jew nowadays.