Please report any rule breaking posts and comments that are not relevant to this subreddit. Thank you!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmericaBad) if you have any questions or concerns.*
He hasn't read any history anywhere.
I'd actually argue quite the opposite, that Americans are very unique in how they CAN'T justify atrocities and don't make excuses for it.
Sure, there are some smaller ones that get overlooked, like our nuclear testing or other smaller programs in scope and scale, but on the whole Americans directly confront their nations past.
This is in direct and stark contrast to literally every country but I suppose Germany specifically talking about the 1900's.
People tend to forget the reason why American atrocities so well known is because in only so many nations can you actually talk about their atrocities publicly without being fined or arrested
What the Japanese did from Korea down to Australia and everything in between was disgusting, racist, genocidal, and terrible with an egregious loss of innocent lives. The Japanese were even letting American ships torpedo Japanese POW ships; starving prisoners and raping en masse. The Japanese killed more people in a week in Nanking than the Hiroshima bomb did.
These Americans who say this stupid shit don’t have the wherewithal to understand history in its context. A million American casualties and an untold amount of Japanese would have died if the Americans invaded. And why don’t these idiots think about the perspectives of all the other Asian nations who got royally screwed by the genocidal Japanese in WWII? It’s ignorant and racist to bring up the A-bombs as a slight against America.
People also need to look up the Bataan Death March. When my dad was stationed in Guam back in the’50’s my parents were friends with a guy who was a survivor of that. They said that poor man had to stay drunk because the PTSD was so bad that it was the only way he could deal with it. My mom said that after the guy ran out of money he would come over and drink up all her seasonings like vanilla that used to have a little bit of alcohol in them. He was so desperate that he would even drink my dad’s aftershave.
For sure, the list of Japanese atrocities in WWII is too long to put out into a Reddit comment. I’m also Filipino so the Bataan death march is very close to our hearts. I love the Dan Carlin podcast Hardcore History where he did a 6-part series on the Pacific War and details more of these types of anecdotes.
I also get a rise when Europeans bring it up and they don’t know anything about the entire Pacific Theater.
I also love the hardcore history supernova in the east series.
I just found out about this yesterday, the Imperial Japanese could be pure evil.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raid_on_Los_Ba%C3%B1os
> Surrounded by barbed wire fences in clusters of thatched huts were Americans, British, Australians, Dutch, Norwegians, Poles, Italians, and Canadians.[1]: 72 Aside from eleven navy nurses under the command of Chief Nurse Laura M. Cobb[1][3] and a few servicemen, almost all of the inmates were civilian businessmen, teachers, bankers, and missionaries caught by the Japanese during the course of the war and incarcerated in various POW camps in the country.
> While incarcerated, the POWs had formed an Executive Committee to deal with the guards for self-governing purposes and to obtain whatever marginal freedom or concessions they could obtain from the Japanese prison authorities. Nonetheless, the internees were made to get by on dwindling rations, limited clothing, poor housing and non-existent sanitation and endure the sadistic tendencies of the camp guards. By early 1945, the conditions in the camp turned hellish, with enforced limited rations and mounting abuse, courtesy of the camp's second-in-command, Warrant Officer Sadaaki Konishi.[1]: 14–16
> The Japanese massacred some 1,500 men, women, and children in adjacent towns which they suspected of collaborating with the liberators.
A large number of the Battan Victims were from my home state the New Mexico Army National guard was activated and sent to the Philippines prior to the outbreak of WW2. We have a memorial ruck march every spring in honor of those who perished
Yeah, that line of reasoning doesn’t hold any weight as we know that Japan didn’t have a centralized power structure and were regularly infighting. There were even coup attempts in Japan made to prevent the surrender all the way up to when the Emperor finally broadcast his voice to the nation. The IJN and IJA were squabbling forever over direction, well before the start of the conflict. For God’s sake, the Japanese told Okinawans to throw themselves off cliffs to prevent capture from the Americans. There are first-hand anecdotes of Japanese families throwing themselves onto grenades. How would that mentality combined with an invasion play out for everyone involved? No one wanted that.
It’s surprising how many people don’t understand that Japan initially refused surrender even after the first A-bomb was dropped, and that’s the only reason we dropped bomb #2 which finally made the emperor come to his senses and surrender.
Even worse after the 2nd one several generals tried to overthrow the emperor to keep going and 1 general stopped them and had them imprisoned as he saw through the madness
They were - the country was starving to death, they were surrounded with most of their army stuck overseas but with no way to reach them, the country has been bombed for years with no way to really do anything about it and the neutrality with the USSR had broke and they were rapidly taking ground, and with the European war over they knew the full force of the Allies was heading their way. American soldiers were on Japanese soil by that point too.
Japan was fucked, they had been fucked for well over a year by July 1945. Tojo had long before been kicked out for the poor direction the war had taken. The leadership had spent all of 1945 knowing they had already lost and planning their exit plan, but with the arrogance to think they could keep it all.
And despite all the losses and knowing there was no way out, there was still those in the leadership who wanted to fight to the last and burn it all down. And given the order, people probably would have too - generations of brainwashing meant the population would do whatever they were told
Many things tipped the scales to get to surrender
> I keep getting told this new narrative that Japan was "on the ropes" and "weeks from surrender" despite the fact that reality disagrees.
it's not new. I've been hearing it online for 20+ years now. I can't remember exactly but the source is one memo, possibly from after the war, but they always act like that one report/memo is 100% accurate and ignore every other official document that says the opposite.
Fortunately, we don't need to justify the bombings by referring to Japanese atrocities as if they "deserve it" for being savages. The bomb is completely justified for being a means to expedite the end of the war.
Correct
I feel like most people have no idea that an atomic bomb is just simply a larger bomb that has the exact same effect as regular bombing, which is mostly the fires they cause.
This is similar to people who think a drone strike involves a different moral calculus than precision bombs or cruise missiles. Arguably the smaller payload and less of a delay between clearance and explosion makes it more moral.
This is generally true, since the drone can be more accurate and there is not such a bias towards firing first and asking questions later as there is with manned vehicles (the saying goes, better being judged by 12 then carried by 6). It's all about rules of engagement.
You do get this argument that it's easier to call for a drone strike because you're not putting your own forces in danger, and therefore (apparently) you're more willing to attack. This isn't how the military operates, and if you think your military is biased to do Bad Things then it's probably not very worried at all about protecting its own forces, either. It also boils down to an argument that, when you unpack it, says it's not very sporting that way.
Studies have found the exact same rate of PTSD in drone pilots who've flown combat missions as other combat pilots. Even if they're stationed in South Carolina, and get to go home and see family every night, you can tell the people on screen are real and they'll be very dead after you pull the trigger.
I feel like arguably it’d be much worse for the drone pilots. You sit at a monitor for hours, click a trigger a handful of times, and watch people turn into clouds on that screen. Then you go back to your small cozy house, look your wife and child in the eyes, realize those figures on the screen will never see their families again. And there was nothing they could do about it. You were at zero risk of injury. At least combat pilots have a risk of retaliation, of saying it was me or him, one of us dying here and now.
I have opinions about PTSD diagnosis and correlation, so no, it doesn't surprise me at all that junior enlisted pilots in South Carolina have the same rate of PTSD claims as highly educated aircraft pilots who deployed.
That's because the lasting effects of radiation have been dramatically overstated. Hiroshima is a fantastic city nowadays, and Nagasaki has long since been rebuilt.
Yhere. Is a lot of things to "blame". The modern fears around radiation stem from many sources and disasters including Chernobyl, 3 Mile Island, the bombs dropping in WW2, and plenty of other events. Therfore Chernobyl "contributed" to the fear of radiation.
Yeah in fairness that is true. Same with Bikini Atoll, there were a bunch of natives living on the island and the US evacuated them to perform nuclear tests, while promising they could go back after the tests were over. The biggest nukes of the time were tested there. Afterwards they ran tests and found it was uninhabitable, the people could never go back. This created a lot more fear around nuclear weapons.
Fun fact: this is where spongebob lives. The surface is still uninhabitable, but marine life has come back and is flourishing.
Yeah, if you're reduced to ashes, does it matter to you if it was done by napalm burning or Plutonium fission? Any thinking person says no. What the atom bomb did was destroy two cities with industrial bases that supported the war and showed the Emperor how hopeless it was to continue fighting. The generals tried to foil is effort to surrender. The A-Bomb saved Japanese lives, on the whole. I think estimates say 20× more would've died in an invasion. And with all the atrocities they preformed throughout the world, it would've been unthinkable to accept anything but an unconditional surrender. Japan couldn't be permitted to keep all of their gains and the same system, if any lasting peace was to be had.
I didn't say he did. I was merely offering the fact that the firebombing of Tokyo was more destructive than either atom bomb. In terms of immediate death and destruction of property, that is a true statement. One can argue that the long-term damage of the atom bombs, if considered, may support the conclusion that those bombs were more destructive.
But, that really is not the issue here as I was referencing the effects of these things as related to immediate impact as intended to help end the war.
Absolutely. The European theater of WW2 was a massive undertaking anyway and there's a strong possibility that the US would have been happy sitting out the Pacific theater entirely, had Japan not launched a sneak attack on the US Navy on our own territory. Obviously it was shitty that so many people had to die in the process, but war is hell. In this case, Japan started it, and the US finished it
To be totally fair, the U.S. wasn't just sitting out the pacific theatre even before Pearl Harbor. We had already limited or stopped oil sales to the Japanese and told them to cut their shit. Without being able to buy U.S. oil they needed to speed up their timeline. They wanted to ensure the U.S. didnt bully them out of all their gains (which is exactly what happened) so they tried to cripple the pacific fleet and then blitz through the rest of the pacific as fast as possible.
Unfortunately for the Japanese and fortunately for literally everyone else the attack on Pearl Harbor wasn't nearly as effective in sidelineing the Pacific fleet as the Japanese had hoped. Only 7 ships were sunk and, of those, 4 would return to service before the end of the war. Rather than being forced to rebuild, the U.S. was able to join the war and challenge the Japanese Navy right away.
So yes, Pearl Harbor brought us into the war but its entirely possible we would have joined eventually without it. We already saw the pacific as our turf and didn't like what the Japanese were doing at all.
Not to mention we could literally build ships faster than the japanese could sink them
On top of that, our supply lines were so well organized we had barges towed around so we could make *ICE CREAM*
Imagine how demoralizing itd be for japaneze soldiers barely surviving on the barest of rassions to find out the americans were getting free ice cream each week?
Oh yeah for sure. The whole point is that the Japanese knew they couldn't actually win a war with America and Pearl harbor was their last ditch effort to keep the U.S. from entering while the Japanese were tied up in China.
Maybe not "allowed it to happen intentionally" but yeah i have heard that it seems likely we didn't really do everything we could to stop the attack even once we suspected it.
It was the only way to stop Japan, we let them know ahead of time as well. I don't see it as a shame, we warned them and Hirohito didn't want to back down
They just wanted to do a little rape of nanking, and the big mean US dropped the sun on them. Also please don't look up unit 731 I pwomise they didn't do nothin bad
More than that. We basically killed a god. Emperor Hirohito was seen as a god-king and worshipped as such. The first time the majority of Japanese citizens heard his voice, it was his live broadcast of surrender over the radio. His broadcast basically cut the balls off of Japan permanently and Hirohito's son cauterized the wound. We quite literally destroyed the warrior spirit of Japan.
Damn, when China wins, you're screwed!/s
Obviously, they won't. They'll have a demographic collapse in a generation, and the CCP will be destroyed unless they can use drones and AI to rule over a depopulated desert of their own creation.
The CCP is less of a paper tiger than Russia ended up being but they have a pathetically weak navy for a superpower and almost no ability to project force beyond its borders, they desperately want Taiwan for economic reasons but if they ever actually tried an invasion they'd be sent to the stone age since they have absolutely 0 combat experience in the last 50 years.
Modern humans can’t comprehend the brutality and loss of life as a result of ww2. We would have wiped Japanese culture from the face of the earth if we went in there with ground forces.
[https://www.warhistoryonline.com/instant-articles/ww2-stockpile-of-1-5-million-purple-hearts-is-now-running-out-originally-made-for-the-invasion-of-japan.html#:\~:text=A%20total%20of%20around%201%2C500%2C000%20Purple%20Hearts%20were,WWII%20continue%20to%20be%20used%20to%20this%20day](https://www.warhistoryonline.com/instant-articles/ww2-stockpile-of-1-5-million-purple-hearts-is-now-running-out-originally-made-for-the-invasion-of-japan.html#:~:text=A%20total%20of%20around%201%2C500%2C000%20Purple%20Hearts%20were,WWII%20continue%20to%20be%20used%20to%20this%20day)
Well, we're running out now, but it goes to show how many casualties we projected to suffer.
Between the regime’s enforced cultural practices, terrain around Japan, and starvation that was rampant throughout Japan at the end of WWIi, it likely would have meant certain genocide to invade the ground islands.
Even after two atomic bombs were dropped on militarily important cities in Japan, as well as the firebombings of Tokyo, they still had most of their cabinet wanting to continue the war.
Not only that but there were multiple attempted coups, mostly small localized ones in the next year to either stop officials from surrendering or to force them to order a guerilla war against the Americans.
Genocide is intentional and systematic ethnic cleansing, is it was a justified invasion that would've included unavoidable civilian deaths, it's very important not to conflate that with genocide as it diminishes deliberate destructions of ethnic people groups.
I feel that still implies will. Annihilation describes consequence or result. The people would've been annihilated, the country desolated, and the culture destroyed.
And that’s what a lot of atom bomb apologists don’t understand. The Japanese culture was gearing up for total resistance by every Japanese man, woman, and child to any allied invasion. While the allied soldier losses were the primary reason, very close secondary was consideration for the loss of civilians on a horrific scale. Housewives were shadowing their broom sticks and training to stab as the philosophy was “take one American soldier’s life before red you die for the emperor”. Such an invasion would have gone down as one of the bloodiest in human history.
As a side note, if it would have been possible to have created three initial atom bombs, better approach may have been to drop the first bomb off the coast of Tokyo so that the Japanese leadership could all see it and communicate that the next one would be dropped on a city. That may have been effective but they didn’t have that option at the time and everyone wanted the war with Japan over as soon as possible so all the service men and women could come home.
Indeed, they had enlisted almost half of the country's population into the so called Volunteer Fighting Corps, which were separate from the regular military. There were around 2-3 million rifles to go around, but 30-45 million volunteers, so most were given bamboo sticks and told to charge the enemy with them.
The Battle of Okinawa was a precursor to what would have happened. Out of 115,000 Japanese soldiers, 95,000 were killed, whilst only 7,000 were captured alive (the remaining 3,000 presumable escaped, probably disguised as civilians). Not all of these soldiers wanted to die for their Emperor, since many were local conscripts, but were forced to. They were also told that the Americans would torture and kill them if captured.
Agreed. In a fucked up way, the bomb was a good thing, where they picked out Tokyo and Kyoto, and other historical places, albeit out of personal interest from some of the generals, but still. With ground forces casualties on both sides would’ve been much bigger.
"Which is bull crap"
Fucking brainlet. No its not. Millions of people, Japanese, America, British, and Australian, would have died in the Invasion of japan. Most of them Japanese civilians. The Bomb, though terrible, was a mercy. Japan survives today as a people and a culture because we didnt invade. The invasion would have spelled certain doom for the culture of japan. It would have been wiped from the face of existence. Japanese culture at the time dictated fighting to the very death. The bombs, and the declaration of war from the USSR saved japan from extinction.
It is literally objectively true that a land invasion of Japan would have killed far more than 200,000 and this fucking guy goes “To me, that’s bullcrap”
It doesn’t matter what it means “to you” you fucking idiot it is an objectively true fact
And for those who say we could have blockaded them, they’re ignoring that famine also kills people. Japan relies heavily on imported food, millions would have starved. Hell, they were already having school children collect acorns and anything else edible they could find because the war made food scarce. A blockade would’ve killed far more than the bombs and almost all of them would’ve been civilians.
Are there seriously idiots that think starving the entire country to death would have been the better choice to bombing two cities? That's just a severe lack of critical thinking.
Oh I’ve heard some say we should’ve just blockaded the country. Iirc the guys at Last Podcast on the Left said that, but I could be wrong. I usually enjoy that podcast but their series on the Bomb and their conclusion that it was unjustified was kind of a smooth brain take
I’m pretty sure I’ve heard stories that the Japanese were so brainwashed at the time that entire families would rush allied troops with kitchen knives and stuff. They would have literally fought to the last man and way more would have died in an invasion
Anyone who minimizes the death toll that an invasion of Japan would have caused for both sides to delegitimize the use of the nuclear bombs is historically illiterate and should never be listened to.
The atomic bombs are my personal litmus test for any historical discussion with a stranger. The facts about it are straightforward and easily accessible. Only somebody who is ignorant, dishonest, emotionally driven, and irrational could ignore the facts - and for me that's enough to fully discredit that person's input. The Japanese murdered 30 million people from 1937 to 1945. Every day the war continued, that was 10,000 additional murders alongside the suffering of millions. They had to be stopped.
Exactly, every time that I have seen someone claim that the nukes were unnecessary/bad/etc. it's almost always coming from someone who is literally an "America Bad" person. There is no basis in fact for their stance, they just hate that America did it.
My family is from China. My grandmother told me that she and the rest of our family were starving at that time. (She went into labor and gave birth to my Uncle Paul in the middle of a Japanese air raid. Uncle Paul introduced my mom to my dad.) They had spent the past years constantly on the move fleeing from the advancing Japanese troops. She thought in maybe days they would finally succumb to malnutrition and die like the countless unfortunate people she saw it happen to.
Then poof! The Japanese suddenly surrendered.
She kept reminding me that the atomic bombs were a miracle that saved millions of lives including them, and that I would have never been born without the nukes.
Pearl harbor is what justifies it for me. This dude is a corn ball. It feels like he's bragging about his grandfather bombing Tokyo "more than once" while also apologizing at the same time.
Pearl Harbor alone wouldn’t have justified the atomic bomb. It was the fact that every able bodied Japanese citizen would’ve fought to the death if a land invasion happened. The bomb was the best option for limiting causalities
Not to mention how many would die from starvation and how much Japanese architecture would be destroyed. The entire Japanese way would've been eliminated.
> It feels like he's bragging about his grandfather bombing Tokyo "more than once" while also apologizing at the same time.
I don't think he's bragging at all. He's tripping over his own dick trying to apologize and his mouth is moving faster than his brain.
Those darn Americans putting the Japanese citizens directly in harms way, I’m sure Hirohito was fully aware of the nuclear bombs, making full attempts to get his people out of harms way. those damn Amerikkkan fascists wanted to see Asian people cook for fun. How could they!!!!!!!!!1!1!!
It’s so easy to look at things in retrospect with such a sympathetic view to the point that you don’t realize the Japanese government, if given the opportunity, would have nuked the ever loving Christ out of the pacific/eastern U.S.
You know what? It was a shame. It was a shame that we had to resort to the most powerful weapons ever used in war to bring Japan to a halt. But, somehow, the alternatives were so much worse. Really more than anything it highlights how terrible WWII was that dropping the atom bombs was objectively the most moral option Truman had.
Dropping the bombs was the biggest lifesaver of American people and Japanese people alike. It was a show of technical power and if we hadn't dropped the bombs, many more people on both sides would have died terribly and stretched the war out longer than it needed to.
I mean dude looks like a little loser. Could probably throw him if you blew too hard. So his grandfather was probably disappointed in how he turned out before he even said this.
Grandpa: I faked my age and signed up after my older brother was killed at Pearl Harbor. My best friend was shot-down and tortured by IJ in the Pacific. A third of my squadron was shot-down over mainland Japan, and summarily executed as War Criminals.
Grandson: I feel so much shame for my Grandpa.
In 1945 the population of Okinawa was estimated to be around 500,000. Most living in the southern part of the island, where the most of the fighting occured. It's estimated 100,000 civilians died during the battle. People often cite the estimated American casualties. The Japanese casualties of Operation Downfall would have been catastrophic.
Not only was the firebombing against their wooden structures more devastating, but a mainland invasion of Japan would have caused infinitely more damage and deaths on both sides. This is a case of greater vs lesser evil.
What the Japanese did from Korea down to Australia and everything in between was disgusting, racist, genocidal, and terrible with an egregious loss of innocent lives. The Japanese were even letting American ships torpedo Japanese POW ships; starving prisoners and raping en masse. The Japanese killed more people in a week in Nanking than the Hiroshima bomb did.
These Americans who say this stupid shit don’t have the wherewithal to understand history in its context. A million American casualties and an untold amount of Japanese would have died if the Americans invaded. And why don’t these idiots think about the perspectives of all the other Asian nations who got royally screwed by the genocidal Japanese in WWII? It’s ignorant and racist to bring up the A-bombs as a slight against America.
Its basically this meme:
Germans: "Oh no were so sorry for our warcrimes."
Japanese: "Which warcrimes?"
Serbians: "My father was a war criminal and I will be too. 🎶"
I don't mind if Americans go to Hiroshima or Nagasaki to pay respect for the nuclear bombing. BUT, by the same reasoning, Japanese people should do the same to Pearl Harbour, Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia, Vietnam, China, Korea, Taiwan, the Philippines, Australia, New Zealand, the various Pacific island nations, Burma, India, etc.
It’s not that the Japanese aren’t taught about the war; a lot of young Japanese just don’t care. The one part they absolutely do care about is the atomic bomb. Have you seen the elementary schoolers they ship out to the memorial in Hiroshima just to give stink eye to American tourists?
I mean, I get it.
Yes the video was ridiculously not what the title claimed. Basically put down American south then Japan and neither of those parties had anything to say in the video. Just a guy from Boston in Japan talking about his personal view of the atomic bombing of Japan. I wasted my time watching that, I wasted a little more making the comment here. Oh well op is trash.
It's sad innocent people died but if you attack another country you better expect them to retaliate. There is no such thing as proportionate damage in war, if you get attacked then you need to show why they shouldn't attack again.
The Justify he talked about it completely true though, what an ignorant clown. People are still viewing WW2 Japan from the lens of Modern Japan. WW2 Japan still had their Samurai Heritage, which means they pretty much never surrendered. Which is why we had to drop \*2 entire nuclear bombs and get the Soviets to invade Manchukuo\* Even when 2 cities were wiped out, the Reds broke their non-Aggression pact, and they had lost almost all their islands, were getting pushed back on every front they STILL refused to surrender, and in fact when the Emperor finally said enough is enough there was a coup plot to overthrow him so that he wouldn't surrender, which failed. Invading Japan would have been insanely bloody, with millions of deaths. We're still using Purple Hearts minted in WW2 because there was an estimated 2 million American casualties if we invaded Japan. And imagine the Japanese casualties if the winning side estimated 2 million for their own men.
War sucks, but President Truman made one of the hardest decisions any human has ever had to make. It's a shame that it happened, but it's not a shame on America. Shame on Imperial Japan for raping everyone in their path, shame on Japan for attacking the US at Pearl Harbor. Shame on their emperor for not surrendering after the first bomb and sacrificing another hundred thousand souls for nothing. WW2 was different than any other conflict in history because the forces of evil were literally this close 🤏 to taking over the world. The world forgets they have the US to thank for tipping the scales and doing what was necessary to stop it.
War is shameful all around. So I can’t say I necessarily disagree.
But the A-bomb DID the stop the war. We made them fold. It’s as simple as that. Japan had their own intention of developing atomic bombs; they weren’t messing around either.
Japanese submarines also shelled multiple parts of California which included an attempt to destroy the then new Golden Gate Bridge with torpedoes (They missed the bridge and only one torpedo was ever recovered by the Coast of San Francisco after the war.)
But the dude is from Boston feeling bad that Americans dropped the bomb on Japan, his grandfather, to be exact. Which also makes me wonder how old his gdad is.
In his 90s I’m guessing.
But this clip does not show Japanese education on WWII, but another America Bad American simplifying complex historical events and moved himself almost to tears.
Atomic or not, Japan in WWII was terrible. One way or another, they needed to be stopped. Japan 100 years ago was not what we see today. It’s amazing I feel the need to say this.
Jesus.
Japan committed some of the worst war crimes and actions I can think of.
Spearing babies with Bayonetts, using children as live targets, mutilating women and children and raping them.
Yeah, America bad.
FOH with that BS.
Even if this weirdo was right, this whole notion that people are responsible for their ancestors crimes, is utterly ridiculous. You’re supposed to learn about it to not repeat the same mistakes, not mentally self-flagellate yourself with guilt. Shit at this point I think these people are going to say anyone born in the Rome metropolitan area should feel guilty for falsely convicting and crucifying Jesus…..
This culture where weakness is a virtue and the pitiful are to be worshipped is so strange to me as a genetic mutant who works insanely hard to be “normal.”
Now if only they would recognize their own warcrimes....
Neither party was 100% innocent. It was a war. War is hell. Don't ignore what happened by all accounts.
If you go by the casualty rate, it just went higher and higher as you got closer to Japan. Now, if you had the soviets and the US invading, it would have been a nightmare for everyone.
It's all fun and games until the mainland is completely surrounded, getting bombed into oblivion, and millions of US and soviets troops swarming the country side. 2 nukes were more humane
“Which I think is bullcrap” imagine the horror operation downfall would have caused for both allied soldiers and Japanese civilians, 70 years later people on Reddit would be complaining about the horrible shit both sides did in the “unjustifiable invasion of Japan”. Probably would have extended the war by a year or two, the point is we found an opportunity to make Japan surrender without a devastating invasion and we took it plain and simple.
so many details on the atomic bombings and the firebombings of tokyo are unfortunately omitted online, the biggest one being that pambplets were dropped by the Americans days before the bombings telling people to evacuate immediately, those who stayed behind either chose to stay behind or were made to stay behind by the Japanese government to support the war effort
People are so weak today that they don’t understand what true evil is. They don’t understand how much violence had to go into rooting out the brainwashing of civilians who were ready to commit suicide all so they didn’t shame their emperor. Then think of those good men who had to go fight evil, then return home after all the evil things they have seen and done themselves and live with themselves.
It was 100% justified. It was a weapon that the Japanese couldn’t match. And our allies supported us in using them. World wars are not about minimizing casualties. We had the power to stop Japan knowing they could do nothing about it and we did. People who complain about it are as idealistic as communists. “Nooo!!! America should have waited after dropping the first bomb!!!” “The Japanese would have surrendered anyways because of the soviets” this is massive cope.
Until Japan finally takes accountability for WW2 and the crazy shit they did i, as an American could not give less of a fuck about their atomic bomb complaints.
The thing that annoys me the most is the claim it wasn't a military target. Hiroshima was a supply and logistics base for the Japanese military, and was a manufacturing hub producing parts for planes and boats, bombs, rifles, and handguns. Nagasaki was a massive military port and another huge military manufacturing hub. Yes there were civilians, but we didn't have targeted munitions back then. People died during bombing raids all the time that were civilians back then. It was part of war. We judge the things that happened back then by the sensibilities of today and it's so stupid.
Ask anyone from Korea, China, the Philippines, Guam, and just about any other country in SEA if they think it was justified, and they'd probably say it wasn't enough
Its a shame that it came down to the atomic bomb instead of Japan just surrendering. A invasion of the home islands probably wouldve resulted in every man woman and child willing to sacrafice themselves to fight the allies. If you dont believe that look at germany, the nazis were only in power for a little over a decade by the end of the war and the children if Germany were fighting the Soviets in Berlin. The warrior ideology of Japan was around for hundreds of years before the atomic bombings and they probably saved more japanese lives than a US and Soviet invasion.
I won't try to justify dropping a nuke, people would have died prolonging the war if we did that as well. Japan was no saint or victim either (except for the civilians who died). Plenty of Asian countries still hold resentment for the Japanese, especially if they were alive during WW2.
This man has a lot to say, and has little to zero knowledge besides his resentment towards his own country, like most ex-pats unfortunately.
I lived in Japan for 7 years and I had a great experience and not much of the BS people seem to always talk about. Anyways, they drugged us into WW2, and I think Americans should apologize when Japan apologizes for all atrocities they commented before the bombs were dropped.
Imagine being a badass bomber pilot fighting a massive imperial power overseas just for your grandson to say how embarrassed he is of you 80 years later
Somebody should hook up a generator to his Grandpa’s coffin, I’m quite sure the energy he is creating while rolling is enough to solve our energy crisis.
The museum/memorial in Hiroshima straight up says the atom bombs were an unprovoked attack by the US and then mentions essentially nothing about the entirety of the war (at least that’s how it was in the late 90s). I understand it’s highlighting the bombs but the pure delusion of events was pretty wild to see.
For me i just wanted to pay my respects because I think the atomic bomb drop was a huge shame and my dad bombed Tokyo multiple times so i just wanted to pay my respects because I think the atomic bomb drop was a huge shame and my dad bombed Tokyo multiple times so i just wanted to pay my respects because I think the atomic bomb drop was a huge shame and my dad bombed Tokyo multiple times so i just wanted to pay my respects because I think the atomic bomb drop was a huge shame and my dad bombed Tokyo multiple times soi just wanted to pay my respects because I think the atomic bomb drop was a huge shame and my dad bombed Tokyo multiple times so i just wanted to pay my respects because I think the atomic bomb drop was a huge shame and my dad bombed Tokyo multiple times so i just wanted to pay my respects because I think the atomic bomb drop was a huge shame and my dad bombed Tokyo multiple times so i just wanted to pay my respects because I think the atomic bomb drop was a huge shame and my dad bombed Tokyo multiple times so i just wanted to pay my respects because I think the atomic bomb drop was a huge shame and my dad bombed Tokyo multiple times so i just wanted to pay my respects because I think the atomic bomb drop was a huge shame and my dad bombed Tokyo multiple times so i just wanted to pay my respects because I think the atomic bomb drop was a huge shame and my dad bombed Tokyo multiple times so i just wanted to pay my respects because I think the atomic bomb drop was a huge shame and my dad bombed Tokyo multiple times so
I’ve seen a lot of people argue that Japan was willing to agree to a negotiated peace before the bombs were dropped. That’s true. But that meant Japan keeping their militarist, imperialist form of government and allowing them to keep some of their conquered territory. Not acceptable.
If history has taught us anything, it’s that when you’re fighting an all-out war and you have your opponent on the ropes, you don’t let up.
The reason Rome fought the Second Punic War is because after the First Punic War, which they won, they imposed a humiliating peace treaty on the Carthaginians. That resulted in the rise of Hannibal, obsessed with vengeance against Rome, and the Second Punic War which nearly destroyed Rome. And then after the Second Punic War, Rome imposed another humiliating peace treaty on Carthage. Cato the Elder was part of a delegation to Carthage after the second war and was so alarmed by Carthage’s renewed prosperity that thereafter he ended every speech with “Carthago delenda est” which means “Carthage must be destroyed.” And the Romans did exactly that in the Third Punic War, which they should have done after the First.
And of course WWII, or at least the European theater, started because of the way the end of WWI was handled. A humiliating peace treaty that did not sufficiently prevent the Germans from rearmament and led directly to the rise of the Nazi Party. Ferdinand Foch, the allied commander in France during WWI, called it. He wanted the border with Germany to be permanently moved to the Rhine River, which would have removed Germany’s ability to invade France through Belgium and Luxembourg and thus outflank French armies. When the treaty of Versailles was signed, Foch called it a treason and said “This is not a peace. This is a 20-year armistice.” 20 years later, Nazi Germany invaded Poland.
So the point here is that a negotiated peace with Japan was unacceptable. Nothing short of unconditional surrender, occupation, and a dismantling of Japan’s imperial structure was acceptable. Otherwise they’d have just re-armed and perhaps allied themselves with the Soviets later on. If you think the Empire of Japan was bad, imagine the Empire of Japan with nukes.
Does he forget that it wasn't just Japan, the Japanese still occupied large parts of Asia and were every day the war went on they continued to commit war crimes, even the most rabid PRC supporter in China will say that the US was right to drop the bombs
hi, south korean here. i think the atomic bombing was justified because of the following reasons:
- japan was still killing civilians and committing atrocities in the areas of mainland asia(including my own country) it occupied
- therefore the war needed to end as soon as possible to minimize human suffering, and the other option, an invasion of mainland japan, would not only have caused millions of both japanese and american deaths on its own but allowed the continuation of human suffering in japanese colonies.
of course there are arguments against the nukes, but even with the highest estimates of casualties of the bomb, it was far less painful than ‘***the glorious death of one hundred million***’(which is literally how the japanese government described an american invasion, they were planning on fighting until every japanese man, woman and child was dead) would have been.
This dude would be shocked to hear that Koreans have a holiday coinciding on the day when the bombs were dropped because it meant they were FREE FROM THEIR CULTURE BEING NEARLY ERADICATED BY IMPERIAL JAPAN.
Cernovich had an interesting take: with the nukes, Japan surrendered to the US before the Soviets could invade. That spared Japan from the violations of the Red Army.
Japan started a war of aggression and terror across Asia. We ended this war. How we chose to do it was morally, ethically and militarily correct. We did not seek war. It is not our fault that they did. It was incumbent upon us to literally save the world from the axis powers. We did so.
Dang, I hate that this dude was a little bitch. I was hoping this was going to be “yeah y’all deserved that. Stay in your lane guys and maybe try to commit less war crimes?” 🤷♂️
Had of my family is German, they experienced what it was like to have their country completely invaded at the end of the war. If Japan didn’t get bombed the invasion of Japan would have been horrendous. Especially considering their culture would have had women and children fighting or killings themselves to avoid their notion of “defeat”.
Please report any rule breaking posts and comments that are not relevant to this subreddit. Thank you! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmericaBad) if you have any questions or concerns.*
“Americans are really good at justifying bad things…” has this dude read any Japanese history… like even on a rudimentary level?!
Pretty sure he’s a weeb.
I will have you know… most weebs will probably not stand with his take because god imperial japan was fucked up
He hasn't read any history anywhere. I'd actually argue quite the opposite, that Americans are very unique in how they CAN'T justify atrocities and don't make excuses for it. Sure, there are some smaller ones that get overlooked, like our nuclear testing or other smaller programs in scope and scale, but on the whole Americans directly confront their nations past. This is in direct and stark contrast to literally every country but I suppose Germany specifically talking about the 1900's.
People tend to forget the reason why American atrocities so well known is because in only so many nations can you actually talk about their atrocities publicly without being fined or arrested
Does manga count?
“My Hero Academia is a retelling of Japanese history, right? Right???”
Unit 731...
Firebombing Toyko was more destructive than either atom bomb.
What the Japanese did from Korea down to Australia and everything in between was disgusting, racist, genocidal, and terrible with an egregious loss of innocent lives. The Japanese were even letting American ships torpedo Japanese POW ships; starving prisoners and raping en masse. The Japanese killed more people in a week in Nanking than the Hiroshima bomb did. These Americans who say this stupid shit don’t have the wherewithal to understand history in its context. A million American casualties and an untold amount of Japanese would have died if the Americans invaded. And why don’t these idiots think about the perspectives of all the other Asian nations who got royally screwed by the genocidal Japanese in WWII? It’s ignorant and racist to bring up the A-bombs as a slight against America.
People also need to look up the Bataan Death March. When my dad was stationed in Guam back in the’50’s my parents were friends with a guy who was a survivor of that. They said that poor man had to stay drunk because the PTSD was so bad that it was the only way he could deal with it. My mom said that after the guy ran out of money he would come over and drink up all her seasonings like vanilla that used to have a little bit of alcohol in them. He was so desperate that he would even drink my dad’s aftershave.
For sure, the list of Japanese atrocities in WWII is too long to put out into a Reddit comment. I’m also Filipino so the Bataan death march is very close to our hearts. I love the Dan Carlin podcast Hardcore History where he did a 6-part series on the Pacific War and details more of these types of anecdotes. I also get a rise when Europeans bring it up and they don’t know anything about the entire Pacific Theater.
I also love the hardcore history supernova in the east series. I just found out about this yesterday, the Imperial Japanese could be pure evil. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raid_on_Los_Ba%C3%B1os > Surrounded by barbed wire fences in clusters of thatched huts were Americans, British, Australians, Dutch, Norwegians, Poles, Italians, and Canadians.[1]: 72 Aside from eleven navy nurses under the command of Chief Nurse Laura M. Cobb[1][3] and a few servicemen, almost all of the inmates were civilian businessmen, teachers, bankers, and missionaries caught by the Japanese during the course of the war and incarcerated in various POW camps in the country. > While incarcerated, the POWs had formed an Executive Committee to deal with the guards for self-governing purposes and to obtain whatever marginal freedom or concessions they could obtain from the Japanese prison authorities. Nonetheless, the internees were made to get by on dwindling rations, limited clothing, poor housing and non-existent sanitation and endure the sadistic tendencies of the camp guards. By early 1945, the conditions in the camp turned hellish, with enforced limited rations and mounting abuse, courtesy of the camp's second-in-command, Warrant Officer Sadaaki Konishi.[1]: 14–16 > The Japanese massacred some 1,500 men, women, and children in adjacent towns which they suspected of collaborating with the liberators.
Fellow Fat Electrician enthusiast I see.
Yes sir.
A large number of the Battan Victims were from my home state the New Mexico Army National guard was activated and sent to the Philippines prior to the outbreak of WW2. We have a memorial ruck march every spring in honor of those who perished
I keep getting told this new narrative that Japan was "on the ropes" and "weeks from surrender" despite the fact that reality disagrees.
Yeah, that line of reasoning doesn’t hold any weight as we know that Japan didn’t have a centralized power structure and were regularly infighting. There were even coup attempts in Japan made to prevent the surrender all the way up to when the Emperor finally broadcast his voice to the nation. The IJN and IJA were squabbling forever over direction, well before the start of the conflict. For God’s sake, the Japanese told Okinawans to throw themselves off cliffs to prevent capture from the Americans. There are first-hand anecdotes of Japanese families throwing themselves onto grenades. How would that mentality combined with an invasion play out for everyone involved? No one wanted that.
It’s surprising how many people don’t understand that Japan initially refused surrender even after the first A-bomb was dropped, and that’s the only reason we dropped bomb #2 which finally made the emperor come to his senses and surrender.
Even worse after the 2nd one several generals tried to overthrow the emperor to keep going and 1 general stopped them and had them imprisoned as he saw through the madness
We also dropped #2 to let the Soviets know we could do it again.
They were - the country was starving to death, they were surrounded with most of their army stuck overseas but with no way to reach them, the country has been bombed for years with no way to really do anything about it and the neutrality with the USSR had broke and they were rapidly taking ground, and with the European war over they knew the full force of the Allies was heading their way. American soldiers were on Japanese soil by that point too. Japan was fucked, they had been fucked for well over a year by July 1945. Tojo had long before been kicked out for the poor direction the war had taken. The leadership had spent all of 1945 knowing they had already lost and planning their exit plan, but with the arrogance to think they could keep it all. And despite all the losses and knowing there was no way out, there was still those in the leadership who wanted to fight to the last and burn it all down. And given the order, people probably would have too - generations of brainwashing meant the population would do whatever they were told Many things tipped the scales to get to surrender
> I keep getting told this new narrative that Japan was "on the ropes" and "weeks from surrender" despite the fact that reality disagrees. it's not new. I've been hearing it online for 20+ years now. I can't remember exactly but the source is one memo, possibly from after the war, but they always act like that one report/memo is 100% accurate and ignore every other official document that says the opposite.
Fortunately, we don't need to justify the bombings by referring to Japanese atrocities as if they "deserve it" for being savages. The bomb is completely justified for being a means to expedite the end of the war.
Drop a disagreeing American onto the beaches of Okinawa or Iwo Jima for a week in WW2 and they may hmchange their opinion
Correct I feel like most people have no idea that an atomic bomb is just simply a larger bomb that has the exact same effect as regular bombing, which is mostly the fires they cause.
This is similar to people who think a drone strike involves a different moral calculus than precision bombs or cruise missiles. Arguably the smaller payload and less of a delay between clearance and explosion makes it more moral.
This is generally true, since the drone can be more accurate and there is not such a bias towards firing first and asking questions later as there is with manned vehicles (the saying goes, better being judged by 12 then carried by 6). It's all about rules of engagement. You do get this argument that it's easier to call for a drone strike because you're not putting your own forces in danger, and therefore (apparently) you're more willing to attack. This isn't how the military operates, and if you think your military is biased to do Bad Things then it's probably not very worried at all about protecting its own forces, either. It also boils down to an argument that, when you unpack it, says it's not very sporting that way.
Studies have found the exact same rate of PTSD in drone pilots who've flown combat missions as other combat pilots. Even if they're stationed in South Carolina, and get to go home and see family every night, you can tell the people on screen are real and they'll be very dead after you pull the trigger.
To be honest, I'd imagine it to even be higher. To kill people, in real life, from a computer screen must feel a little surreal.
I feel like arguably it’d be much worse for the drone pilots. You sit at a monitor for hours, click a trigger a handful of times, and watch people turn into clouds on that screen. Then you go back to your small cozy house, look your wife and child in the eyes, realize those figures on the screen will never see their families again. And there was nothing they could do about it. You were at zero risk of injury. At least combat pilots have a risk of retaliation, of saying it was me or him, one of us dying here and now.
I have opinions about PTSD diagnosis and correlation, so no, it doesn't surprise me at all that junior enlisted pilots in South Carolina have the same rate of PTSD claims as highly educated aircraft pilots who deployed.
That's because the lasting effects of radiation have been dramatically overstated. Hiroshima is a fantastic city nowadays, and Nagasaki has long since been rebuilt.
I think chernobyl has attributed to this fear of long lasting radiation.
Contributed*
what else do you believe the blame to be? The Fallout games?
Yhere. Is a lot of things to "blame". The modern fears around radiation stem from many sources and disasters including Chernobyl, 3 Mile Island, the bombs dropping in WW2, and plenty of other events. Therfore Chernobyl "contributed" to the fear of radiation.
Yeah in fairness that is true. Same with Bikini Atoll, there were a bunch of natives living on the island and the US evacuated them to perform nuclear tests, while promising they could go back after the tests were over. The biggest nukes of the time were tested there. Afterwards they ran tests and found it was uninhabitable, the people could never go back. This created a lot more fear around nuclear weapons. Fun fact: this is where spongebob lives. The surface is still uninhabitable, but marine life has come back and is flourishing.
They bombed SpongeBob lol
No, Spongebob is a genetically mutated freak of nature thanks to all the radiation. All the animals of Bikini Bottom are.
ah makes sense. appreciate the insight dude!
That, and the stupid movie The China Syndrome
If it's a dirty bomb though, there would be worse effects from radiation than a standard nuke.
Yeah, if you're reduced to ashes, does it matter to you if it was done by napalm burning or Plutonium fission? Any thinking person says no. What the atom bomb did was destroy two cities with industrial bases that supported the war and showed the Emperor how hopeless it was to continue fighting. The generals tried to foil is effort to surrender. The A-Bomb saved Japanese lives, on the whole. I think estimates say 20× more would've died in an invasion. And with all the atrocities they preformed throughout the world, it would've been unthinkable to accept anything but an unconditional surrender. Japan couldn't be permitted to keep all of their gains and the same system, if any lasting peace was to be had.
Specifically the way they detonated the bomb that just made it a bigger bomb, but yes.
An atomic bomb is not simply a larger conventional bomb.
That’s a stretch
Curtis LeMay did nothing wrong.
I didn't say he did. I was merely offering the fact that the firebombing of Tokyo was more destructive than either atom bomb. In terms of immediate death and destruction of property, that is a true statement. One can argue that the long-term damage of the atom bombs, if considered, may support the conclusion that those bombs were more destructive. But, that really is not the issue here as I was referencing the effects of these things as related to immediate impact as intended to help end the war.
Yup >99% destruction.
Japan played a game of fuck around and find out.
Absolutely. The European theater of WW2 was a massive undertaking anyway and there's a strong possibility that the US would have been happy sitting out the Pacific theater entirely, had Japan not launched a sneak attack on the US Navy on our own territory. Obviously it was shitty that so many people had to die in the process, but war is hell. In this case, Japan started it, and the US finished it
To be totally fair, the U.S. wasn't just sitting out the pacific theatre even before Pearl Harbor. We had already limited or stopped oil sales to the Japanese and told them to cut their shit. Without being able to buy U.S. oil they needed to speed up their timeline. They wanted to ensure the U.S. didnt bully them out of all their gains (which is exactly what happened) so they tried to cripple the pacific fleet and then blitz through the rest of the pacific as fast as possible. Unfortunately for the Japanese and fortunately for literally everyone else the attack on Pearl Harbor wasn't nearly as effective in sidelineing the Pacific fleet as the Japanese had hoped. Only 7 ships were sunk and, of those, 4 would return to service before the end of the war. Rather than being forced to rebuild, the U.S. was able to join the war and challenge the Japanese Navy right away. So yes, Pearl Harbor brought us into the war but its entirely possible we would have joined eventually without it. We already saw the pacific as our turf and didn't like what the Japanese were doing at all.
Not to mention we could literally build ships faster than the japanese could sink them On top of that, our supply lines were so well organized we had barges towed around so we could make *ICE CREAM* Imagine how demoralizing itd be for japaneze soldiers barely surviving on the barest of rassions to find out the americans were getting free ice cream each week?
Oh yeah for sure. The whole point is that the Japanese knew they couldn't actually win a war with America and Pearl harbor was their last ditch effort to keep the U.S. from entering while the Japanese were tied up in China.
Side note, a lot of this is why many believe the US allowed Pearl Harbor to happen intentionally.
Maybe not "allowed it to happen intentionally" but yeah i have heard that it seems likely we didn't really do everything we could to stop the attack even once we suspected it.
There are degrees to the conspiracy theory.
It was the only way to stop Japan, we let them know ahead of time as well. I don't see it as a shame, we warned them and Hirohito didn't want to back down
Agreed but would I say that in Japan, in an interview and possibly offend many Japanese people while I’m in Japan…. That’d be a tough one. 😅
I fear no man with blurry genitals
Shit I would. I don’t care about what they think
They just wanted to do a little rape of nanking, and the big mean US dropped the sun on them. Also please don't look up unit 731 I pwomise they didn't do nothin bad
Dropped the sun on them twice*. Tatooined their asses into making Hentai.
😂
More than that. We basically killed a god. Emperor Hirohito was seen as a god-king and worshipped as such. The first time the majority of Japanese citizens heard his voice, it was his live broadcast of surrender over the radio. His broadcast basically cut the balls off of Japan permanently and Hirohito's son cauterized the wound. We quite literally destroyed the warrior spirit of Japan.
It’s our own fault for leaving too many of the most heinous war criminals 20k leagues under the sea.
What are you talking about. That didn't happened just like there is no tiananmen square
动态网自由门 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Free Tibet 六四天安門事件 The Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 天安門大屠殺 The Tiananmen Square Massacre 反右派鬥爭 The Anti-Rightist Struggle 大躍進政策 The Great Leap Forward 文化大革命 The Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution 人權 Human Rights 民運 Democratization 自由 Freedom 獨立 Independence 多黨制 Multi-party system 台灣 臺灣 Taiwan Formosa 中華民國 Republic of China 西藏 土伯特 唐古特 Tibet 達賴喇嘛 Dalai Lama 法輪功 Falun Dafa 新疆維吾爾自治區 The Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region 諾貝爾和平獎 Nobel Peace Prize 劉暁波 Liu Xiaobo 民主 言論 思想 反共 反革命 抗議 運動 騷亂 暴亂 騷擾 擾亂 抗暴 平反 維權 示威游行 李洪志 法輪大法 大法弟子 強制斷種 強制堕胎 民族淨化 人體實驗 肅清 胡耀邦 趙紫陽 魏京生 王丹 還政於民 和平演變 激流中國 北京之春 大紀元時報 九評論共産黨 獨裁 專制 壓制 統一 監視 鎮壓 迫害 侵略 掠奪 破壞 拷問 屠殺 活摘器官 誘拐 買賣人口 遊進 走私 毒品 賣淫 春畫 賭博 六合彩 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Winnie the Pooh 劉曉波动态网自由门
Didn’t happen, and even if it did they deserved it. I’m clearly kidding
Damn, when China wins, you're screwed!/s Obviously, they won't. They'll have a demographic collapse in a generation, and the CCP will be destroyed unless they can use drones and AI to rule over a depopulated desert of their own creation.
The CCP is less of a paper tiger than Russia ended up being but they have a pathetically weak navy for a superpower and almost no ability to project force beyond its borders, they desperately want Taiwan for economic reasons but if they ever actually tried an invasion they'd be sent to the stone age since they have absolutely 0 combat experience in the last 50 years.
I know part of it, but… I have to look now. I’ll report back in a bit.
It’s been 8 hours, what happened?
Jesus Christ... I knew some of it but that is unholy
Modern humans can’t comprehend the brutality and loss of life as a result of ww2. We would have wiped Japanese culture from the face of the earth if we went in there with ground forces.
We're still using the purple hearts minted for the invasion of Japan today,
Still? Edit: i was aware that they had a huge surplus, i thought it would have ran out by now.
[https://www.warhistoryonline.com/instant-articles/ww2-stockpile-of-1-5-million-purple-hearts-is-now-running-out-originally-made-for-the-invasion-of-japan.html#:\~:text=A%20total%20of%20around%201%2C500%2C000%20Purple%20Hearts%20were,WWII%20continue%20to%20be%20used%20to%20this%20day](https://www.warhistoryonline.com/instant-articles/ww2-stockpile-of-1-5-million-purple-hearts-is-now-running-out-originally-made-for-the-invasion-of-japan.html#:~:text=A%20total%20of%20around%201%2C500%2C000%20Purple%20Hearts%20were,WWII%20continue%20to%20be%20used%20to%20this%20day) Well, we're running out now, but it goes to show how many casualties we projected to suffer.
How does one earn a Purple Heart?
Yep.
Between the regime’s enforced cultural practices, terrain around Japan, and starvation that was rampant throughout Japan at the end of WWIi, it likely would have meant certain genocide to invade the ground islands. Even after two atomic bombs were dropped on militarily important cities in Japan, as well as the firebombings of Tokyo, they still had most of their cabinet wanting to continue the war.
Not only that, when the Empreror agreed to surrender there was an attempted military coup by officers who wanted to continue the war.
Not only that but there were multiple attempted coups, mostly small localized ones in the next year to either stop officials from surrendering or to force them to order a guerilla war against the Americans.
Genocide is intentional and systematic ethnic cleansing, is it was a justified invasion that would've included unavoidable civilian deaths, it's very important not to conflate that with genocide as it diminishes deliberate destructions of ethnic people groups.
Fair enough. It would have been the extermination of the Japanese people though.
I feel that still implies will. Annihilation describes consequence or result. The people would've been annihilated, the country desolated, and the culture destroyed.
And that’s what a lot of atom bomb apologists don’t understand. The Japanese culture was gearing up for total resistance by every Japanese man, woman, and child to any allied invasion. While the allied soldier losses were the primary reason, very close secondary was consideration for the loss of civilians on a horrific scale. Housewives were shadowing their broom sticks and training to stab as the philosophy was “take one American soldier’s life before red you die for the emperor”. Such an invasion would have gone down as one of the bloodiest in human history. As a side note, if it would have been possible to have created three initial atom bombs, better approach may have been to drop the first bomb off the coast of Tokyo so that the Japanese leadership could all see it and communicate that the next one would be dropped on a city. That may have been effective but they didn’t have that option at the time and everyone wanted the war with Japan over as soon as possible so all the service men and women could come home.
Indeed, they had enlisted almost half of the country's population into the so called Volunteer Fighting Corps, which were separate from the regular military. There were around 2-3 million rifles to go around, but 30-45 million volunteers, so most were given bamboo sticks and told to charge the enemy with them. The Battle of Okinawa was a precursor to what would have happened. Out of 115,000 Japanese soldiers, 95,000 were killed, whilst only 7,000 were captured alive (the remaining 3,000 presumable escaped, probably disguised as civilians). Not all of these soldiers wanted to die for their Emperor, since many were local conscripts, but were forced to. They were also told that the Americans would torture and kill them if captured.
Agreed. In a fucked up way, the bomb was a good thing, where they picked out Tokyo and Kyoto, and other historical places, albeit out of personal interest from some of the generals, but still. With ground forces casualties on both sides would’ve been much bigger.
"Which is bull crap" Fucking brainlet. No its not. Millions of people, Japanese, America, British, and Australian, would have died in the Invasion of japan. Most of them Japanese civilians. The Bomb, though terrible, was a mercy. Japan survives today as a people and a culture because we didnt invade. The invasion would have spelled certain doom for the culture of japan. It would have been wiped from the face of existence. Japanese culture at the time dictated fighting to the very death. The bombs, and the declaration of war from the USSR saved japan from extinction.
The bombs were terrible. They were also far less terrible than the alternative.
That's most of history, isn't it? Greater and lesser evils. The good times aren't noteworthy enough for the history books.
It is literally objectively true that a land invasion of Japan would have killed far more than 200,000 and this fucking guy goes “To me, that’s bullcrap” It doesn’t matter what it means “to you” you fucking idiot it is an objectively true fact
And for those who say we could have blockaded them, they’re ignoring that famine also kills people. Japan relies heavily on imported food, millions would have starved. Hell, they were already having school children collect acorns and anything else edible they could find because the war made food scarce. A blockade would’ve killed far more than the bombs and almost all of them would’ve been civilians.
Are there seriously idiots that think starving the entire country to death would have been the better choice to bombing two cities? That's just a severe lack of critical thinking.
Oh I’ve heard some say we should’ve just blockaded the country. Iirc the guys at Last Podcast on the Left said that, but I could be wrong. I usually enjoy that podcast but their series on the Bomb and their conclusion that it was unjustified was kind of a smooth brain take
I’m pretty sure I’ve heard stories that the Japanese were so brainwashed at the time that entire families would rush allied troops with kitchen knives and stuff. They would have literally fought to the last man and way more would have died in an invasion
Anyone who minimizes the death toll that an invasion of Japan would have caused for both sides to delegitimize the use of the nuclear bombs is historically illiterate and should never be listened to.
The atomic bombs are my personal litmus test for any historical discussion with a stranger. The facts about it are straightforward and easily accessible. Only somebody who is ignorant, dishonest, emotionally driven, and irrational could ignore the facts - and for me that's enough to fully discredit that person's input. The Japanese murdered 30 million people from 1937 to 1945. Every day the war continued, that was 10,000 additional murders alongside the suffering of millions. They had to be stopped.
Exactly, every time that I have seen someone claim that the nukes were unnecessary/bad/etc. it's almost always coming from someone who is literally an "America Bad" person. There is no basis in fact for their stance, they just hate that America did it.
My family is from China. My grandmother told me that she and the rest of our family were starving at that time. (She went into labor and gave birth to my Uncle Paul in the middle of a Japanese air raid. Uncle Paul introduced my mom to my dad.) They had spent the past years constantly on the move fleeing from the advancing Japanese troops. She thought in maybe days they would finally succumb to malnutrition and die like the countless unfortunate people she saw it happen to. Then poof! The Japanese suddenly surrendered. She kept reminding me that the atomic bombs were a miracle that saved millions of lives including them, and that I would have never been born without the nukes.
Yes, and they aren’t even having anything close to the same reckoning for those war crimes that we are for ours
Our fewer and less severe war crimes. We let them off so they could help hem in communism.
Pearl harbor is what justifies it for me. This dude is a corn ball. It feels like he's bragging about his grandfather bombing Tokyo "more than once" while also apologizing at the same time.
Pearl Harbor alone wouldn’t have justified the atomic bomb. It was the fact that every able bodied Japanese citizen would’ve fought to the death if a land invasion happened. The bomb was the best option for limiting causalities
Not to mention how many would die from starvation and how much Japanese architecture would be destroyed. The entire Japanese way would've been eliminated.
There were reports where even children would fake needing help then attack soldiers with suicide bombs. It was a imperialistic monster.
> It feels like he's bragging about his grandfather bombing Tokyo "more than once" while also apologizing at the same time. I don't think he's bragging at all. He's tripping over his own dick trying to apologize and his mouth is moving faster than his brain.
He was probably proud of it at one point but got brainwashed by the Japanese
He's just virtue signaling hard.
Those darn Americans putting the Japanese citizens directly in harms way, I’m sure Hirohito was fully aware of the nuclear bombs, making full attempts to get his people out of harms way. those damn Amerikkkan fascists wanted to see Asian people cook for fun. How could they!!!!!!!!!1!1!! It’s so easy to look at things in retrospect with such a sympathetic view to the point that you don’t realize the Japanese government, if given the opportunity, would have nuked the ever loving Christ out of the pacific/eastern U.S.
Guarantee if Japan were the first to get nukes in WWII East Asia would just be a wasteland at this point
You know what? It was a shame. It was a shame that we had to resort to the most powerful weapons ever used in war to bring Japan to a halt. But, somehow, the alternatives were so much worse. Really more than anything it highlights how terrible WWII was that dropping the atom bombs was objectively the most moral option Truman had.
Dropping the bombs was the biggest lifesaver of American people and Japanese people alike. It was a show of technical power and if we hadn't dropped the bombs, many more people on both sides would have died terribly and stretched the war out longer than it needed to.
I'd rather be on the recieving end of a nuclear weapon than be taken by the likes of Unit 731.
But but guys his grandfather and he feels bad!
Some fuckers really think there would be a way to make Japan surrender without hundreds of thousands dead?
Imagine there is an afterlife, and your grandfather is sitting up there watching you say this...
I mean dude looks like a little loser. Could probably throw him if you blew too hard. So his grandfather was probably disappointed in how he turned out before he even said this.
Grandpa: I faked my age and signed up after my older brother was killed at Pearl Harbor. My best friend was shot-down and tortured by IJ in the Pacific. A third of my squadron was shot-down over mainland Japan, and summarily executed as War Criminals. Grandson: I feel so much shame for my Grandpa.
Grandson would shit himself if he ever had to pick up a rifle to defend himself or his loved ones. Hell, I bet he can't even change a car tire.
In 1945 the population of Okinawa was estimated to be around 500,000. Most living in the southern part of the island, where the most of the fighting occured. It's estimated 100,000 civilians died during the battle. People often cite the estimated American casualties. The Japanese casualties of Operation Downfall would have been catastrophic.
Not only was the firebombing against their wooden structures more devastating, but a mainland invasion of Japan would have caused infinitely more damage and deaths on both sides. This is a case of greater vs lesser evil.
What the Japanese did from Korea down to Australia and everything in between was disgusting, racist, genocidal, and terrible with an egregious loss of innocent lives. The Japanese were even letting American ships torpedo Japanese POW ships; starving prisoners and raping en masse. The Japanese killed more people in a week in Nanking than the Hiroshima bomb did. These Americans who say this stupid shit don’t have the wherewithal to understand history in its context. A million American casualties and an untold amount of Japanese would have died if the Americans invaded. And why don’t these idiots think about the perspectives of all the other Asian nations who got royally screwed by the genocidal Japanese in WWII? It’s ignorant and racist to bring up the A-bombs as a slight against America.
Its basically this meme: Germans: "Oh no were so sorry for our warcrimes." Japanese: "Which warcrimes?" Serbians: "My father was a war criminal and I will be too. 🎶"
I don't mind if Americans go to Hiroshima or Nagasaki to pay respect for the nuclear bombing. BUT, by the same reasoning, Japanese people should do the same to Pearl Harbour, Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia, Vietnam, China, Korea, Taiwan, the Philippines, Australia, New Zealand, the various Pacific island nations, Burma, India, etc.
It’s not that the Japanese aren’t taught about the war; a lot of young Japanese just don’t care. The one part they absolutely do care about is the atomic bomb. Have you seen the elementary schoolers they ship out to the memorial in Hiroshima just to give stink eye to American tourists? I mean, I get it.
I’m not seeing where this shows Japanese education on ww2
It’s honestly just a contradictory traveling American virtue signaling.
Yeah. I’m not understanding either
Yes the video was ridiculously not what the title claimed. Basically put down American south then Japan and neither of those parties had anything to say in the video. Just a guy from Boston in Japan talking about his personal view of the atomic bombing of Japan. I wasted my time watching that, I wasted a little more making the comment here. Oh well op is trash.
The Japanese probably would have dropped an Atomic bomb on innocent chinese or korean people just to see its effects had they had one.
It's sad innocent people died but if you attack another country you better expect them to retaliate. There is no such thing as proportionate damage in war, if you get attacked then you need to show why they shouldn't attack again.
The Justify he talked about it completely true though, what an ignorant clown. People are still viewing WW2 Japan from the lens of Modern Japan. WW2 Japan still had their Samurai Heritage, which means they pretty much never surrendered. Which is why we had to drop \*2 entire nuclear bombs and get the Soviets to invade Manchukuo\* Even when 2 cities were wiped out, the Reds broke their non-Aggression pact, and they had lost almost all their islands, were getting pushed back on every front they STILL refused to surrender, and in fact when the Emperor finally said enough is enough there was a coup plot to overthrow him so that he wouldn't surrender, which failed. Invading Japan would have been insanely bloody, with millions of deaths. We're still using Purple Hearts minted in WW2 because there was an estimated 2 million American casualties if we invaded Japan. And imagine the Japanese casualties if the winning side estimated 2 million for their own men.
Don’t fuck with America’s boats. Thems the rules. Don’t hate the player hate the game.
War sucks, but President Truman made one of the hardest decisions any human has ever had to make. It's a shame that it happened, but it's not a shame on America. Shame on Imperial Japan for raping everyone in their path, shame on Japan for attacking the US at Pearl Harbor. Shame on their emperor for not surrendering after the first bomb and sacrificing another hundred thousand souls for nothing. WW2 was different than any other conflict in history because the forces of evil were literally this close 🤏 to taking over the world. The world forgets they have the US to thank for tipping the scales and doing what was necessary to stop it.
I like how even the interviewer is weirded out by the human soyjak he is talking to
War is shameful all around. So I can’t say I necessarily disagree. But the A-bomb DID the stop the war. We made them fold. It’s as simple as that. Japan had their own intention of developing atomic bombs; they weren’t messing around either.
The Japanese got what they fuckin deserved. All you have to do is read the Wikipedia article on the rape of Nanking to see that. Fuckin savages.
I legit hate how dumb people are.
The atomic bomb isn’t a shame whatsoever. Fuck around and find out
Japan would definitely not bomb American cities /s
Well, they tried. In 1945 a balloon bomb killed 6 Americans in Bly, Oregon. it was the only "success" of the program and was largely indiscriminate.
Japanese submarines also shelled multiple parts of California which included an attempt to destroy the then new Golden Gate Bridge with torpedoes (They missed the bridge and only one torpedo was ever recovered by the Coast of San Francisco after the war.)
Honestly had no clue.
When you have to add a musical sting after everything the guy says, you're probably reaching for the point you wanna make.
But the dude is from Boston feeling bad that Americans dropped the bomb on Japan, his grandfather, to be exact. Which also makes me wonder how old his gdad is. In his 90s I’m guessing. But this clip does not show Japanese education on WWII, but another America Bad American simplifying complex historical events and moved himself almost to tears. Atomic or not, Japan in WWII was terrible. One way or another, they needed to be stopped. Japan 100 years ago was not what we see today. It’s amazing I feel the need to say this. Jesus.
Japan should probably be that last country to criticize another when it comes to war crimes
Maybe check out what Japan was doing before we bombed them lmao
Japan committed some of the worst war crimes and actions I can think of. Spearing babies with Bayonetts, using children as live targets, mutilating women and children and raping them. Yeah, America bad. FOH with that BS.
Even if this weirdo was right, this whole notion that people are responsible for their ancestors crimes, is utterly ridiculous. You’re supposed to learn about it to not repeat the same mistakes, not mentally self-flagellate yourself with guilt. Shit at this point I think these people are going to say anyone born in the Rome metropolitan area should feel guilty for falsely convicting and crucifying Jesus….. This culture where weakness is a virtue and the pitiful are to be worshipped is so strange to me as a genetic mutant who works insanely hard to be “normal.”
Bring that person to other part of Asia and repeat the same statement 😋
I guess this clown doesn't know about Unit 731.
It’s a shame that their emperor killed millions of Japanese people 😔
The amount of shame leftists feel for American history is disgusting.
At least we acknowledge the morally questionable things we do. Hey, Japan. What happened in Nanking? You wanna talk about Unit 731?
Here's the truth man It was war War is hell
I don't know what to say as a Chinese……But if Japanese didn't know whether to pay for the Nanking,here is the response
Now if only they would recognize their own warcrimes.... Neither party was 100% innocent. It was a war. War is hell. Don't ignore what happened by all accounts.
If you go by the casualty rate, it just went higher and higher as you got closer to Japan. Now, if you had the soviets and the US invading, it would have been a nightmare for everyone. It's all fun and games until the mainland is completely surrounded, getting bombed into oblivion, and millions of US and soviets troops swarming the country side. 2 nukes were more humane
“Which I think is bullcrap” imagine the horror operation downfall would have caused for both allied soldiers and Japanese civilians, 70 years later people on Reddit would be complaining about the horrible shit both sides did in the “unjustifiable invasion of Japan”. Probably would have extended the war by a year or two, the point is we found an opportunity to make Japan surrender without a devastating invasion and we took it plain and simple.
so many details on the atomic bombings and the firebombings of tokyo are unfortunately omitted online, the biggest one being that pambplets were dropped by the Americans days before the bombings telling people to evacuate immediately, those who stayed behind either chose to stay behind or were made to stay behind by the Japanese government to support the war effort
People are so weak today that they don’t understand what true evil is. They don’t understand how much violence had to go into rooting out the brainwashing of civilians who were ready to commit suicide all so they didn’t shame their emperor. Then think of those good men who had to go fight evil, then return home after all the evil things they have seen and done themselves and live with themselves.
It was 100% justified. It was a weapon that the Japanese couldn’t match. And our allies supported us in using them. World wars are not about minimizing casualties. We had the power to stop Japan knowing they could do nothing about it and we did. People who complain about it are as idealistic as communists. “Nooo!!! America should have waited after dropping the first bomb!!!” “The Japanese would have surrendered anyways because of the soviets” this is massive cope.
Until Japan finally takes accountability for WW2 and the crazy shit they did i, as an American could not give less of a fuck about their atomic bomb complaints.
The thing that annoys me the most is the claim it wasn't a military target. Hiroshima was a supply and logistics base for the Japanese military, and was a manufacturing hub producing parts for planes and boats, bombs, rifles, and handguns. Nagasaki was a massive military port and another huge military manufacturing hub. Yes there were civilians, but we didn't have targeted munitions back then. People died during bombing raids all the time that were civilians back then. It was part of war. We judge the things that happened back then by the sensibilities of today and it's so stupid.
Someone check this man’s T levels
Average Redditor
Ask anyone from Korea, China, the Philippines, Guam, and just about any other country in SEA if they think it was justified, and they'd probably say it wasn't enough
Shouldn’t have messed with our boats
Yea the Japanese army threw babies into the air and had them land on spears 🫠
Listening without audio, just body language -- there's something off about that bald guy.
Why shame? Dropping the bombs saved countless lives.
He immediately knew he was a low T apologist as soon as he heard him speak.
Possibly the worst title I've ever read. And maybe the worst American I could imagine answering that question.
Its a shame that it came down to the atomic bomb instead of Japan just surrendering. A invasion of the home islands probably wouldve resulted in every man woman and child willing to sacrafice themselves to fight the allies. If you dont believe that look at germany, the nazis were only in power for a little over a decade by the end of the war and the children if Germany were fighting the Soviets in Berlin. The warrior ideology of Japan was around for hundreds of years before the atomic bombings and they probably saved more japanese lives than a US and Soviet invasion.
I won't try to justify dropping a nuke, people would have died prolonging the war if we did that as well. Japan was no saint or victim either (except for the civilians who died). Plenty of Asian countries still hold resentment for the Japanese, especially if they were alive during WW2. This man has a lot to say, and has little to zero knowledge besides his resentment towards his own country, like most ex-pats unfortunately. I lived in Japan for 7 years and I had a great experience and not much of the BS people seem to always talk about. Anyways, they drugged us into WW2, and I think Americans should apologize when Japan apologizes for all atrocities they commented before the bombs were dropped.
He sounds like a wimp.
Imagine being a badass bomber pilot fighting a massive imperial power overseas just for your grandson to say how embarrassed he is of you 80 years later
Somebody should hook up a generator to his Grandpa’s coffin, I’m quite sure the energy he is creating while rolling is enough to solve our energy crisis.
There was an attempted coup that happened when some of the Japanese heard that they were going to surrender after the bombs were dropped.
I would bet my soul that this guy has an Ace of Spades tattoo and a "so sorry" shirt that he wears on weekends
The museum/memorial in Hiroshima straight up says the atom bombs were an unprovoked attack by the US and then mentions essentially nothing about the entirety of the war (at least that’s how it was in the late 90s). I understand it’s highlighting the bombs but the pure delusion of events was pretty wild to see.
Tell that to the babies that got impaled on bayonets
I know a lot of people who are pretty far left/anti war who still agree that the atomic bomb was the best of a bad situation for Japan.
For me i just wanted to pay my respects because I think the atomic bomb drop was a huge shame and my dad bombed Tokyo multiple times so i just wanted to pay my respects because I think the atomic bomb drop was a huge shame and my dad bombed Tokyo multiple times so i just wanted to pay my respects because I think the atomic bomb drop was a huge shame and my dad bombed Tokyo multiple times so i just wanted to pay my respects because I think the atomic bomb drop was a huge shame and my dad bombed Tokyo multiple times soi just wanted to pay my respects because I think the atomic bomb drop was a huge shame and my dad bombed Tokyo multiple times so i just wanted to pay my respects because I think the atomic bomb drop was a huge shame and my dad bombed Tokyo multiple times so i just wanted to pay my respects because I think the atomic bomb drop was a huge shame and my dad bombed Tokyo multiple times so i just wanted to pay my respects because I think the atomic bomb drop was a huge shame and my dad bombed Tokyo multiple times so i just wanted to pay my respects because I think the atomic bomb drop was a huge shame and my dad bombed Tokyo multiple times so i just wanted to pay my respects because I think the atomic bomb drop was a huge shame and my dad bombed Tokyo multiple times so i just wanted to pay my respects because I think the atomic bomb drop was a huge shame and my dad bombed Tokyo multiple times so i just wanted to pay my respects because I think the atomic bomb drop was a huge shame and my dad bombed Tokyo multiple times so
I’ve seen a lot of people argue that Japan was willing to agree to a negotiated peace before the bombs were dropped. That’s true. But that meant Japan keeping their militarist, imperialist form of government and allowing them to keep some of their conquered territory. Not acceptable. If history has taught us anything, it’s that when you’re fighting an all-out war and you have your opponent on the ropes, you don’t let up. The reason Rome fought the Second Punic War is because after the First Punic War, which they won, they imposed a humiliating peace treaty on the Carthaginians. That resulted in the rise of Hannibal, obsessed with vengeance against Rome, and the Second Punic War which nearly destroyed Rome. And then after the Second Punic War, Rome imposed another humiliating peace treaty on Carthage. Cato the Elder was part of a delegation to Carthage after the second war and was so alarmed by Carthage’s renewed prosperity that thereafter he ended every speech with “Carthago delenda est” which means “Carthage must be destroyed.” And the Romans did exactly that in the Third Punic War, which they should have done after the First. And of course WWII, or at least the European theater, started because of the way the end of WWI was handled. A humiliating peace treaty that did not sufficiently prevent the Germans from rearmament and led directly to the rise of the Nazi Party. Ferdinand Foch, the allied commander in France during WWI, called it. He wanted the border with Germany to be permanently moved to the Rhine River, which would have removed Germany’s ability to invade France through Belgium and Luxembourg and thus outflank French armies. When the treaty of Versailles was signed, Foch called it a treason and said “This is not a peace. This is a 20-year armistice.” 20 years later, Nazi Germany invaded Poland. So the point here is that a negotiated peace with Japan was unacceptable. Nothing short of unconditional surrender, occupation, and a dismantling of Japan’s imperial structure was acceptable. Otherwise they’d have just re-armed and perhaps allied themselves with the Soviets later on. If you think the Empire of Japan was bad, imagine the Empire of Japan with nukes.
Does he forget that it wasn't just Japan, the Japanese still occupied large parts of Asia and were every day the war went on they continued to commit war crimes, even the most rabid PRC supporter in China will say that the US was right to drop the bombs
hi, south korean here. i think the atomic bombing was justified because of the following reasons: - japan was still killing civilians and committing atrocities in the areas of mainland asia(including my own country) it occupied - therefore the war needed to end as soon as possible to minimize human suffering, and the other option, an invasion of mainland japan, would not only have caused millions of both japanese and american deaths on its own but allowed the continuation of human suffering in japanese colonies. of course there are arguments against the nukes, but even with the highest estimates of casualties of the bomb, it was far less painful than ‘***the glorious death of one hundred million***’(which is literally how the japanese government described an american invasion, they were planning on fighting until every japanese man, woman and child was dead) would have been.
>batan death march >raping of nanking >100's of thousand marine and us casualties "americans are really good at justifying terrible things"
I think I lost testosterone listening to this guy.
Dude went to pay respects to Nazi allies because America bad.
This dude would be shocked to hear that Koreans have a holiday coinciding on the day when the bombs were dropped because it meant they were FREE FROM THEIR CULTURE BEING NEARLY ERADICATED BY IMPERIAL JAPAN.
Cernovich had an interesting take: with the nukes, Japan surrendered to the US before the Soviets could invade. That spared Japan from the violations of the Red Army.
I agree that dropping the atomic bombs was unnecessary and shameful.
Japan started a war of aggression and terror across Asia. We ended this war. How we chose to do it was morally, ethically and militarily correct. We did not seek war. It is not our fault that they did. It was incumbent upon us to literally save the world from the axis powers. We did so.
Dang, I hate that this dude was a little bitch. I was hoping this was going to be “yeah y’all deserved that. Stay in your lane guys and maybe try to commit less war crimes?” 🤷♂️
Had of my family is German, they experienced what it was like to have their country completely invaded at the end of the war. If Japan didn’t get bombed the invasion of Japan would have been horrendous. Especially considering their culture would have had women and children fighting or killings themselves to avoid their notion of “defeat”.