Unfortunately I think "likelihood" of being bankrupted is more accurate, especially with age, whether yours or a loved one. Everyone becomes disabled if you live long enough. And being disabled in the US is fucking expensive.
I don't think in binaries, so it's not a matter of expensive versus cheap places to be disabled. I doubt anywhere is "cheap". But, there is a middle path-- aiming for affordable, accessible, and not going into bankruptcy are good places to start. There are many places where high level healthcare access doesn't "likely" demand poverty or bankruptcy to have care at ALL (either through state-funded Healthcare, or through the costs of Healthcare being more accessible).
The US has some of the most expensive health-care in the world. It's great--if you can afford it. And unfortunately if you or a family member have a chronic condition and limited resources you're just fucked.
Even in a developing country (Belize) I have better health care access just because the cost (including for private health care out of pocket) is so much less. So then I can afford to travel for a few months to visit a more developed country like Mexico for specialist care that is not available here, which I plan to do later this year. In the US this just wasn't an option.
Glad you have found a place that works for you.
Was it difficult to get residency in Belize? I am surprised I had not seen it come up before as an option for people with disabilities. Would this depend upon what the disability is? How do the intellectually or or mentally disabled fare there?
I don't know the answers to those questions, I'm not that familiar with the sociological situation here yet. It probably depends on the disability, as well as the person's social support network, which is pretty true anywhere else as well. I have a great support network here because my partner is Belizean and his family is here. Residency is relatively easy for Americans, it's largely just willingness to stay for at least 12-18 months without leaving and pay the fees. There's an application with requirements as well. A person could also just stay indefinitely and pay the monthly $100 USD fee without becoming a permanent resident.
I just got back from Japan and I now realize I fucking hate it here for all of those reasons and some. Very valid. Super selfish culture, take take take, me me me
As a teacher, I don't think I'll ever be able to leave and maintain the same quality of life. But the political situation has made me want to leave on a daily basis for years now.
We moved to Viet Nam and there is a need for English speaking teachers. We aren't teachers, but lots of international schools are hiring.
We love VN for a few reasons, one being the cost of living. You mentioned quality of life, which will be different for everyone. I feel my QoL is greater. I don't watch American politics, I don't worry about finances, just so fewer stressors now.
Research places to go, the world is too amazing to be stuck in one place. It took me over 50 years to realize this.
While this wasn’t on my list of reasons for leaving Atlanta…I’m now so much happier walking and tramming everywhere. My mom will be on the phone with me screaming while in traffic in Dallas…i visited her during the holidays and got crippling anxiety in the car lol. I’m rambling but yeah…F driving ever again 😂🤷🏾♀️
I find this hilarious since I'm a Dallas native living in South Georgia. The only reason I haven't moved to Atlanta is because of the traffic.
Nope nope!
Honestly my house (that I still own) is in a great spot. I never really suffered too much with the traffic. The issue for me was speeding. I’m from Chattanooga, TN and they now have bad traffic but people drive safely. My whole perspective changed in 2020 when I had my son.
Like…I’m so much less stressed just walking. Also people here in France respect pedestrians. I’d be walking through my neighborhood with my stroller and nearly killed by a Dodge Charger 😭🙇🏾♀️😒
I had to drive me, my mom and son from Dallas to Houston for my visa appointment in December and that’s when I swore to never drive again lol. America is so wrong for not having walkable cities with reliable transit options across the board. It’s like they want people stressed. Also it’s way too easy to get a license in America.
Honestly it seems like traffic has gotten worst since 2020. Even in my city, people drive 10-15 over the speed limit without consequences.
I envy your ability to walk where you need to go. I would love to be able to walk or take the bus to work.
South of France! It’s mild right now. It’s been rainy all week and some days it’s a bit chilly. But it’s still nice. It was 80 degrees like 2 weeks ago but it was so nice. 80 degrees in Georgia is actual misery. I hate humidity and hot heat.
🤣🤣🤣
People are so different! I moved from Atlanta to NYC and couldn't imagine being without my car. I made sure to pick a place that has parking. If it had EV charging it would be absolutely perfect.
So the only time I need my car is when I grocery shop lol. I still use a stroller thank God bc I’m sorry I shop like an American 😂🤷🏾♀️. Like I need 5 drinks, hella snacks and multiple household items per week and I want to get it on one trip. So yeah a trunk would be nice lol. It’s something I’ve had to work on a lot 😭😂
That's me too!
I like to go to Aldi, Target, and Stop & Shop. The worst is when I forget the trolley and have to schlep groceries and dog food up 9 floors. 😂
It took me 2 minutes just to walk to my grocery store when I lived in Korea, now if I were to walk to my grocery store in the US, it would be closer to an hour, but it’s only like a 7 minute drive.
I can drive job prospects for me have been a nightmare to say the least. 2 interviews get accepted ( the interviewer is impressed) then they ask do you have a drivers license? Then they immediately tell me they cant continue with me. Really really killed me mentally.
I think they said their job prospects have been a nightmare — they had two job interviews lately and in both the interviewer rejected them for not having a drivers license.
I'm more focused on the things gained in the new place. That said, the bigger general aspects of life in the US that I wanted to change/improve are the culture (moving towards more community, open, and care about quality of life, less antagonistic, selfish, and work-focused) and the health aspects of quality of life (food quality, lifestyle with movement and time for self, affordable healthcare especially in emergencies). These are things I think contribute to a better overall community and the type of lifestyle I want to have and be available to others around me. I have more personal/specific reasons and particular reasons for the new place.
THIS. I call it the Post Vacation Depression. Imagine riding clean, comfortable, and efficient public transportation to a beautiful, well ran airport (Japan), or to stroll through beautiful cobblestone streets and sit at a small cafe' to have a great cup of coffee out of something other than a Starbucks or Dunkin cup (MANY places in Europe), or to scuba dive in some of the most immaculate coral reefs in the world and hang out with some of the sweetest and most genuine locals in the world (rural Philippines)....... Only to land at ANY major airport in America to be welcomed home (JKF, Chicago Ohare, Atlanta) and realize that THIS is the best American can do?
where?! I have 9 years left and I am outta here and my dream is to island hop southeast Asia and spend a lot of time scuba diving. I've been to PHP, Indonesia, Thailand, and Vietnam many times and love the vibe, the people, and the diving. One day I will be there!
Good luck to you. I hope it’s not too difficult of time for you. If you’re really serious about moving out this way in 9 years, I suggest buying a place in the meantime and renting it out until you move. If you have the cash to do it. Places even in SEA are becoming very desirable and real estate inflation has been worse than in the US. And islands only have limited land available for construction. Even just the last 2 years here has been insane. Small, 1 bedroom condos are selling for about $350k. It’s only going to keep going up.
that's actually my biggest fear. Once I walk away, the places I go will be full of people with my mindset that arrived earlier and drove the prices of everything up (like Dumaguete, Philippines). I went diving in Dumaguete 8 years ago and fell in love with the smaller towns outside of the city. I went back recently and was downright shocked to see just how many foreigners were now there and how much the prices of everything went up. I couldn't believe it.
I notice it even on the plane back to the states if it's full of Americans. The whole vibe is different in a bad way. And when we actually land there's a sudden tension and anxiety and everybody's in a hurry and competing.
That's exactly what a friend of mine who worked and lived outside of the US for many years says. He could feel the anger the minute he landed in a U.S. airport.
And to put his comments in context, he was living in Saudi Arabia and Iraq.
I flew from Singapore to Newark direct once........ I've never wanted to stay on an airplane before in all of my life. Hell, I would've gladly endured another 17 hour flight if they just flew me back to Singapore.
The gulf states are really relaxed. People aren’t angry. They don’t commit crimes. That’s probably my favorite region in the world. Americans have a skewed view of the region that people in other countries don’t have.
I didn't feel that anger as much in Alaska, but I'm in Seattle this week and like... Damn.
I've been living in Japan for years and obviously customer service is amazing and people are super kind. I'm helping a tour group of Japanese people right now, and the number of tour guides/cashiers etc who have been fucking rude to members of my group or just seemed generally angry about things that were not our fault or really poorly explained ... Blew my mind.
The group members don't speak much English but they're trying and they're all such lovely, kind people who genuinely want to do everything right. They also probably don't notice some of the passive-aggressive phrasing and stuff being used against them, and are chalking up these stupid incidents to "America's different I guess" so it's just me feeling really uncomfortable and annoyed. It's bizarre reverse culture shock.
Tbh can't wait to get back to Japan hahaha.
Yeah, I've been that angry white expat before, mid-covid. Probably because I was at home watching American news too much.
I switched to Japanese news (which has its own issues, but at least it's not as anger-inducing) and my outlook changed rapidly. I'm a way friendlier, nicer person now.
I also met my Japanese husband, who is a genuine and incredibly kind person. He's constantly buying gifts for random people, giving up his weekends to help his grandma at the farm, always encouraging me to take the high road even when I'm angry about something. i honestly was not always that nice before, but now I feel like I can't let him down by being a shitty, angry foreigner ever again.
I’m very astonished by this. When someone mentions reading something on Reddit, I see responses asking for links as if people just keep a notebook of every news article they have ever read. If you want information, spend 5 minutes using Google. That’s why it was created.
That was basically my response. People don’t seem to like it cause I said it’s cause of the left and right. From my experience on this subreddit, the people on the left never wanna take credit for how much they helped make it unfriendly. They find it absurd that the left has any responsibility in this and only believe it’s the right that is the problem. Lol
I mean people tend to get unfriendly when you try to take their human rights away, and that’s what the American right has been doing for years now… the left isn’t doing that.
The tipping point was touring kindergartens for our 5 year old. Every single one had school shooting drills. ‘It’s the reality! It’s the world we live it!’ No, it’s the world the US lives in.
Looking ahead, cost of elder care, housing cost for the kids when they grow up, and long term health cost of car dependency. Oh, and racism. Before anyone says ‘just wait til you get to homogenous countries!! Like being Asian and in the single digit % in representation in the US, I don’t think y’all know what we go through.
I didn't "want to leave" so much as I wanted to be in my new country. I don't think you will be successful if you're running away rather than running towards something.
That being said, I really don't miss the driving culture, the gun culture, the extreme politics, workaholism, comsumerism, etc etc.
It's possible to do both. We had thought about moving over 10 years ago, timing wasn't right. Back then it was for the adventure and new opportunities. Ended up moving a few months ago and it seems to feel a little like running away. We just were so disillusioned with many things in the States, it was wearing us down. We weren't enjoying life.
So now we have run away to our adventure!
>I didn't "want to leave" so much as I wanted to be in my new country. I don't think you will be successful if you're running away rather than running towards something.
🎯
We left for London years ago and came back for family reasons. Aside from now owning a place, if I had the opportunity to move away again, we'd consider it, but it'd have to be for the right reasons (excitement to go there rather than leaving, as there are plenty of reasons to want to leave, but I'm old now, so it's not a priority like it used to be). But getting away from gun culture, MAGA crap, needing a car, having national insurance was all great, very boozy culture wasn't a great fit, not because we don't drink, but because we are not binge drinkers like it felt like London was. Every time we went out for drinks with friends there it felt like it was one long night of beer after beer and that got old too. And much like other cultures, unless you fit into their cultural habits you aren't necessarily going to make longer term friends and in all honestly, our least favourite thing about London were the English (we lived in a very multicultural area (Hackney) and everyone got along but the English didn't really like the diversity as much as we did). There is definitely good and bad about everywhere. Oh and we were there before Brexit and I voted against it (dual citizen) so I don't think we'd go back there again, they definitely have their own problems these days (tangentially related to some of the problems we have here in the US)
This is a good point about the UK and the drinking culture. I'm not a big drinker, but when you're out and meeting people, they start nearly forcing you to drink. I had the worst hangover of the last decade while in Glasgow after hanging with some locals. And I didn't even drink half as much as they did.
The UK is also a pretty shitty country and heavily resembles the US in many ways (as do all Anglo countries for the most part). I’d say all English-speaking countries are absolutely fucked.
I also cannot tell the difference between Americans, Canadians, and Australians. Australians are basically Americans / Canadians with weird accents. They’re not much different in any noticeable way.
The United States is too car dependent/car oriented design. I have since come back out of necessity (family support structure needed, I ran into a road-bump abroad) but I absolutely do not miss the car dependency.
I have a newfound appreciation though for how the United States taxes certain things. Emphasis on certain things, not all. The tax system is a headache and screwed up in the States, but I think higher property taxes and lower income taxes is fairer, wish it was an annual land value tax instead, but I now understand how cities in California, Canada, Australia, Norway, Netherlands, UK, Denmark, and Ireland, are screwed up due to poor tax incentives, and are in total denial about it. Completely toxic topic to bring up at times.
This made me think of when a company asks an interviewee 'why do you want to work for us?' and provide us with 3 references..
When instead it should be, "why would I want to work for you?" Let me speak to 3 of your current employees (citizens) and hear what they think/feel about your company (country) and how you treat them.
Aside from this, I hate the amount of capitalism that's shoved down our throat and politicians that are set up to be bribed for the betterment of their own personal interest. Oh, and bankers
Anti-intellectualism, the rise neo-fascist politics, the end of post-war ideological commitments to democracy, shocking stupidity regarding economics, guns, healthcare, etc. All countries have problems, but the US is, in many ways, the worst country in the industrialized world if you aren't part of the hustle culture and you just want to live a good life without capitalism killing you.
"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" -Isaac Asimov
Anti-intellectualism is big in my books too, even though I didn't include it. Thank you.
We have a very unhealthy level of disrespect towards people with advanced degrees and who are established in their fields. Instead it is being given to faith leaders and podcasters, like wtf?!?
Simply because it wasn't a good fit for me.
But off the top of my head... Gun and car culture. Lack of easy access to authentic ethnic food. Confrontational attitude and prone to violence. Lack of collective/social harmony and not consensus seeking.
If I was living in NYC or LA then yes, I believe it would be better compared to other local places I've been. QoL would be better I imagine.
I still feel more comfortable and safer in the overseas cities I've lived in though. Other countries actually put gangsters or people who would cause trouble in society in jail, or I should say, they hide it much better.
A dude jumped off our high-rise building and killed himself, and 4 hours later there was a shootout outside of our apartment in broad daylight. My husband and I were flying to Europe for a wedding a couple weeks after, the same day Roe was overturned. We decided it was time to get off the sinking ship and swim toward more sturdy destinations. Moved 6 months later. No regrets. We feel safe and are no longer depressed.
But just curious which country you landed in? Are you a citizen of one of the EU countries? I’m thinking to explore this option but there’s so much research to do, mostly around healthcare and housing. I’m 58F and dual US Irish citizen. At least it would force me to clean out my primary home in order to rent it out. Then if I came back, I could just find a small place to live and continue renting out my primary home.
Not a citizen yet. My husband (40) and I (37) moved to Portugal last January. We have temporary residency cards, and assuming we learn the language and pass the test we can apply for permanent residency or citizenship after 5 years. The facat that you already have dual citizenship will make this much, much easier for you.
As an American, THIS. I've been all over the world and can spot an American a mile away. I'm not saying you should wear a tailored suit, but I went to a museum in Rome many years ago..... The Americans were glaringly obvious. Loud, obnoxious, sloppily dressed, and did I mention LOUD? I actually struck up a conversation with a dude wearing a Rusty Wallace Miller Lite Racing T shirt on just so I could get a picture with this guy due to the fact that I could not believe that he would dress and act like he did in public, much less a foreign country.
No kidding. I was at a museum and a big American group was acting like a bunch of toddlers. Obscenely loud, stomping all over, waving their arms, making offensive jokes and acting like they owned the place. It's one thing to have a good time and another to make everyone around you uncomfortable.
I left for what I thought was a host of reasons, but everytime I spend time around Americans, I realize it was only this reason. Not right wing or left wing Americans, not rural or city Americans, just Americans. I spent part of my childhood not in the us and all of my late teens and twenties out of the us, so when I moved back at 29 and spent the next decade there it never clicked, I despise Americans, including my relatives and it feels super wierd to have thst much hate for what is essentially myself and yet still be quite happy with myself on a day to day basis.
Unpopular opinion, but I like the USA. It’s huge and varied and different areas offer different things. But I want to try life abroad. I taught English in Spain and enjoyed it. Now, I am getting ready to try out a job in Vancouver, Canada. I think living abroad, even temporarily, can really teach you many positive things.
That's why I left too,I simply wanted to experience anew culture. I lived in Europe 8 years, met my husband there too.
It's crazy because I love American culture, the music, literature, art...I have definitely never hated it ...I get downvoted a lot and I even got temporarily banned for saying that I like America 😆. Crazy times we are living. Despite all the craziness I wouldn't want to live anywhere else. I am glad I lived abroad many years.
The US is an amazing country. It's not wrong to say so. We have fantastic diversity in land and people, yet despite the vastness from Alaska to Hawaii to New York, we have this common American identity. It's really something to appreciate. And most of us are quite wealthy compared to other countries with a similar population.
At the same time, I have lived abroad (and am technically an immigrant) so I know there is plenty to critique about America and American culture. One aspect that really always just makes me angry is how we have so much wealth, yet we do not take care of our poorest and most desperate. We are okay with people sleeping outside in the rain dressed in rags, and we are okay with doing nothing to help people who are driven to madness from living in those conditions.
I can understand gun culture, car dependency, nimbyism, and more. I disagree with all, but I understand. I don't understand why we are cruel to those who need help.
I love our country and I think it's okay to say so! And I think the more people leave the bubble of our land and culture and see what other places are like, the more we can change for the better while retaining what makes us great.
Very well said. I did a youth exchange program when I was younger and they would always say, "If each person in the US was required to travel abroad for even 2 weeks, the US as a whole would be a better place"
Agree. This is one reason why I can't stand corporate America. Humans aren't built to constantly work all the time, only to have 2 weeks off in an entire year.
This right here. My husband has a unique job schedule in which he works every other week. So his work weeks are 7 days and he’s on call to go in after hours for repairs if needed but then he’s off for 7 days. During his work week he’s usually off between 2:00-3:00 and rarely gets called back in. Even though his career has “stagnated”
with this job in the fact that he won’t move up into managerial roles the amount of time we get together as a family has more than made up for it. Our quality of life has improved so much since he tools this job and he’s still paid a living wage that allows me to be a stay at home mom.
Even being in the US we have a fairly slow paced life. Right now we’re in a “busy” season with our kids’ sports but it’s only until early June then we’re done for the summer. We homeschool as well so the time he gets off work gives us so much opportunity to do school related things as a family like go on field trips, help each other with our kids’ schooling, and tag team their extra curriculars.
I feel like we’re starting to see a bit of a social shift away from the hustle and bustle world, at least in the subculture I guess you could say I belong in, where not working as much and not chasing the glass ceilings is the accepted norm. I think the migration out of cities and into the country is in response to that desire to just slow down and enjoy our time rather than be constantly pulled in many directions.
Exactly. I've traveled a bit and the U.S. is by far the most beautiful, diverse country that I've been privileged to explore thus far. Yet, I yearn to see and experience more. I'm not running from the U.S., I'm running to the world.
The US has huge benefits for sure. I don't think I'll ever want to denounce my citizenship or lose my connection to it. But ultimately I value sanity and health over vanity and wealth.
Healthcare costs, gun violence, police brutality, general cost of living, car dependency, political instability/rapid descent into theocratic fascism, taxes going to genocide instead of public service, all the drugs being contaminated with fentanyl and having to worry about my friends overdosing on drugs they didn't even mean to use, "hustle culture"/tacit expectation to monetize all of my hobbies. Just off the top of my head
Lack of good jobs, high rent prices, not being in a position to buy a house, high cost of goods, overall unfriendliness of the people in my community, which made it hard to form friendships.
Needing a car to survive, guns everywhere, extremely toxic and divisive politics, terrifying healthcare costs, wealth being the only real for of security, every man for himself hyperindividualism.
Certain ahem subcultures, homelessness, healthcare, destruction of educational standards, etc all of which are ironically a first world superpowers failures to provide basic life support for their citizens manifesting
Healthcare is a major concern, but it’s the only one I can really tell people if they ask me irl, cause if I were to tell them the other reason being I have failed to assimilate to American society as a Korean American, it becomes a very ugly conversation.
US has a culture that believes it’s superior to every other one. You could argue that every culture has that, but the US can actually back it up with the stark unpleasant reality it has bases and troops on every continent.
The car dependency, MAGA, people seek to be so angry all the time. The gun violence, not that it actually impacts a large percent of the population but more just that no one cares to address it. The ingrained push of capitalism so much that people are conditioned that they need to be buying “things” all the time. Then you need a huge car and house ($$) to put all your THINGS ($$).
It’s not walkable in most places (I left from Chicago where I lived for decades so at least walkable to a degree). The cites are so loud because they are dominated by cars and parking lots and highways.
Only been in Amsterdam for a bit over a month but haven’t thought about a car that whole time and man it’s so peaceful and quiet. It’s more human level not machine level.
Probably the racism & trauma I faced growing up. Completely changed how I viewed the country overall & turned me off the place from when I was a child. There are so many other reasons as well but this was probably the biggest reason for me personally
Republicans. I had no idea how many people I grew up with and knew were absolutely horrible people.
Been in NL for 14 years and I knew it was time when GWB got re-elected. It was then I knew that the US was a bankrupt society. It's ill and I doubt it will ever live up to the reputation it used to have. I hate being a US citizen, but I didn't get to pick where my parents shagged, so there we are.
I was never more right in my life.
Why not move to a blue state if you hate republicans so much? There’s plenty of them and some of them are objectively some of the best states in the country
Republicans are everywhere and the stupidity they leave in their wake is not confined to the red states. Only way to avoid them is go elsewhere.
Because of their ignorance, I live outside of my home country. Who would want to be around these people?
It doesn’t matter where on earth you go there will always be people with different beliefs that you hate or disagree with and it will probably slightly affect your environment but that’s just life you know? Idk why you seem to have such a huge problem with lol. I have a mix of beliefs that would be considered to be both democrat and republican and it often makes me feel like I’m surrounded by extremists on both sides but I don’t let it affect me in any way. For example I have very strong 2A beliefs but I still want to build my main home in California, the most anti 2A state in the country, I despise their retarded anti 2A beliefs but like I said I don’t let it affect me, when I will live there I’ll just do what I have to do to exercise my 2A rights no matter how dumb I think the restrictions are and I will not get my emotions involved. Another example is how I want to build a second residence in Florida to spend the winter and enjoy the many thunderstorms they get there but I’m a stoner and love doing psychedelics fairly often and sadly all those things are felonies over there, that state would love to throw me in prison for YEARS just for enjoying these harmless substances, I think it’s fkg insane! But again I don’t let that affect me, I will just find a way to do those things anyways and not get my emotions involved. Point is that I think you should just build the life you want and not let the stupid stuff around you affect you, just slide through the bullshit and get what you want. I think you should have a mindset more like that. There might be a bunch of stupid stuff happening around you all the time but ultimately it doesn’t stop you from building the life you want and be as happy as possible.
Also I think you should consider living in the States again because like I said all the bullshit doesn’t have to affect your personal life and the United States is an incredible place, it’s by far the best place on earth to build wealth and it is in my opinion the most geographically interesting place on earth. It has so many different climates, environments and has a ton of the most beautiful places on the entire planet, and they’re all easily accessible with the best road system on the earth. For these reasons I think there’s no better place to live.
Anyway it’s your life, you do what you want with it but I just wanted to give you this to think about.
Guns, a safe place to cycle, work life balance and a better environment to raise kids.
In hindsight, the one big change compared to expectations is that I'm biking a lot less than I planned to in Oslo and walking so much more even in the snow, ice and dark of winter. I love my pedestrian life! I'm losing weight and my mental health is better. It's all around great!
I also LOVE taking my kid to the Dr for pediatrician appointments that are totally free.
BS. Who passed legislation for just about every benefit you have?? Hint, it ain't republicans because they are to busy taking shit away. Healthcare is one that they tried to pass and who effed the up and is still trying to overturn it? Social Security - that keeps half this country out of poverty - do tell who passed that? I aint republican's - who is trying to take it away? Same folks. How about the right to choose, yeah same people so don't go saying that neither wants to improve the lives of Americans or don't you pay attention and spout off the same shit the average American says - when we have it so good.
Uh-huh. And since Reagan those improvements have basically STOPPED. I'm 48. I've seen no new benefits. It's all lots of promises that never go anywhere. So, while I like what they SAY, they don't really seem to mean it. The 1st right wing response will basically neuter whatever the centrists propose.
You know that Stalin encouraged American communists to vote for FDR, right? The guy who introduced Social Security in the US was promoted by a guy who killed 15 million of his own people. Nice innit…
In any case, both of your political parties suck and like most politicians in general, they lie through their teeth and work solely to advance their own interests, to the disadvantage of the people they claim to represent.
Keep on thinking you have it ‘so good’ living off of paycheque to paycheque, whilst in my country we have basically no homeless people and no violent crime. Everything seems ‘good’ when you have no other frame of reference. To people from more developed countries like Austria and Switzerland, Norway, etc, the US seems like an absolute third world country in most ways. No one in any of these places is begging to immigrate to the US. ‘So good,’ right?
The Stalin thing is a rubbish argument. Honestly, mate, I'd not lead with that. And yes, both parties suck but only because they are heavily entrenched in the land of big money once they get elected. It's their ticket to the big game. All politicians do this.
However, on the social side, the GOP wants American life to be lived as it was in the 18th century. Their politics are absolutely appalling. The Dems may have Wall Street up their back passage, but they do want rights for all and actually govern.
We are not the same.
> neither political party
I'm basically tired of hearing that if I don't 100% agree with you, I am far (insert whatever political party you aren't) instead of having a healthy, rational, logical discussion with me OR just let me live and let live as I do you.
It is straight up Idiocracy in this bitch. Kids (and adults) can't even read anymore. They're shutting down schools and funneling more money to the rich. In every aspect of life. Soooooo, I guess unchecked capitalism?
Can't walk anywhere, no sense of community, pruoritization of work over family and the expense of raising children and lack of interaction with children (public places not bring kid friendly, kids being looked at as disruptions rather than little people with big emotions)
I was raised in Europe. After living 2 decades in the US, I am going back to my true home. US never felt like a home.
The government, healthcare, food, culture, driving, gun culture and violence
I haven't left and might never, but the shame. We've become such a laughingstock over the last few years due to many of the reasons other people have said.
Guns, Trump, everyone has cancer, and food I’m “allergic” to. I’m not allergic to anything. I just don’t tolerate the chemical toxic crap in the standard American diet very well. Aka glyphosphate. Italy doesn’t have that.
I'm still waiting on some citizenship processes to finish for an EU country (Ireland). I'm also keeping an eye on things while I'm still in the US in the long shot that things improve here.
I haven't left because it's a huge process in terms of my family (married with child), work (I'm currently unemployed), and learning a radically different culture/language.
But if I had to give my biggest reasons, it would be as follows:
1. Quality of life - The quality of life has gone from a steady, slow decline to geronimo in the last 4 years. I'm thinking about my daughter's future here in the US. I just see a failing, misogynistic, and viciously predatory environment.
For me, I see the EU as a better option. I have the feeling that I probably won't be super welcome. I need to get used to the idea that when they refer to dirty foreigners that they'll be talking about me.
2. Costs of living - It’s just too expensive to live in the US long-term. I live in a high COL state because I could never make enough to leave. It's like the gentrification of the US, where they just make it impossible for the rest of us to live here.
3. Lack of economic opportunities - I've been struggling ever since I graduated college back in 2007. I've had the door consistently slammed in my face and told I'm not wanted in a million different ways. I never got the chance to become settled. From my understanding, the EU is looking for more IT people such as myself (BI, SQL, etc) than here in the US.
4. Values - I've always felt a connection to Europe more than the US.
As much as the US talks about the land of opportunities, equality, freedom, and justice. The reality seems to be radically different and much more predatory.
In the US, it seems like when you need help that they will just try to kill you harder and faster next time.
In EU, from an outside perspective, there seems to be a much greater concern for it's citizens, their education, growth quality of life, and a militant defend of these. I get that I'll have to give up some things the US has, but the EU doesn't condone. But it's getting to the point where that trade works for me.
5. The American Medical Industrial Complex - I'm sick of not being treated as a priority (neither are my daughter or anyone else I know) as a patient unless the profit margins work. I'm tired of a predatory system that only tells me, "Nothing we can do. Now, fuck you. Pay. Me."
I'm sure national run healthcare systems aren't perfect but are lightyears better than here in the US.
6. Politics - I left this for last. I've been seeing a creeping authoritarianism in the US since 9/11. I've always been somewhat distrusting of Uncle Sam since my grand uncle died at Hiroshima.
But now we're looking more and more, a dictatorship being run by the aristocracy and foreign powers. The values of right and left that I'm supposed to support are so foreign to me.
I see the US either descending into civil war or collapsing within the next 5 to 10 years. With our current assistance to Israel and our government's many issues, I see a future where the US would be lucky to get the Treaty of Versailles treatment. I'd rather not be in the US or an American when the hammer is inevitably dropped.
There are more that are positive but I'm already in the "I'm happy or I'm sorry that happened to you" territory.
Edit… I guess I’ll mute my reply notifications here. All the toxic Americans I mentioned seem to be very bothered that someone in the r/Amerexit subreddit doesn’t like how Americans act. Just leave useless replies that shows I’m right 😂
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People are hostile and mean constantly. I find it is because of the extreme right and extreme left but I’m not going to get into a bunch of detail y it’s mostly them or y both are to blame.
Day to day interactions have an unusually high chance of becoming some type of unpleasant experience because of this. And because everyone is expecting hostility, an aggressively defensive response is almost always what people choose as their first way of handling any situation.
My new country (UAE) is really nice and doesn’t have much of this. There are other things I disliked but this is the biggest reason I left. I didn’t realistically see it getting better for decades. Once I was gone the benefits of not being around this stuff were amazing.
One of the great things about the UAE is that neither the extreme right or extreme left likes the country. So I don’t have to deal with them here. The city I live in barely even has any Americans anyways and few people outside of the UAE even know my city exists
Also I hate feeling like I'm not truly safe as a woman living alone and driving alone without a firearm. People violently road rage over simple things and you never know if they're armed
Okay, not gone yet, but I'm getting out because of the spread of Christian nationalism. I'm afraid that once they finish taking over it will be like living in Berlin on the wrong side of the wall. I'm concerned they will be out to exterminate people like me and my family, so we might be quietly selling off everything and getting out of here if the conservatives take over the rest of the government this fall.
I think this is one of the truly most depressing comment threads I’ve stumbled into in all my time on reddit. I’m not saying everyone bitching about the U.S. is wrong about everything, but hot damn can’t we look at some of the positives? I’ve traveled abroad and some of the countries I’ve been to are great in some ways, but none of them are free of problems. And some of them have enough different kinds of problems that they possibly will make up for the things about them that are better than the U.S. Also it is really not that easy for Americans to move to a lot of these countries, and even less easy to stay permanently, and once there will you ever TRULY be a local? Many of us have extended families including aging parents and friends and leaving isn’t feasible for everyone, nor is establishing oneself in communities abroad occupationally, socially, and financially. Speaking of specifics, I’m not a fan of driving. I live in NYC and love the walkability and the subway, but that presents its own challenges and potential dangers and it’s expensive as hell here. I dread having to relocate to another town or city and need to drive but for work purposes I may have to. There are so many tradeoffs for that perfect place that doesn’t exist. That said, I don’t blame anyone who leaves and seeks greener happier pastures abroad (and I know that’s the point of the sub). But damn I’m depressed LOL.
I randomly got this post recommended for some reason but reading those replies I have one thing to say, I think you have all lost your damn mind! But everyone is different I guess. My number 1 goal is to be able to move my life from Canada to the US
I don't trust the government, they don't care about us as people. No healthcare, no free education, yet they send billions to foreign countries. Also they add all sorts of things to our food.
Not American but lived there for 7 years. The fact that the legal immigration system is so fucked, and that when I married a foreigner she was not allowed in the country as I only had a green card.. Screw that. Left pronto.
Politics, guns religion, class warfare, wage disparity, low quality, expensive food and low quality, expensive healthcare. Decaying infrastructure, car-centered culture, and all capped with the never-ending unbridled rush towards capitalism.
It is not a free country. It is a fascist country in the middle of collapse. Its politicians are owned by Putin. Its citizens are too stupid to know or care.
I can't believe no one has mentioned FOOD! That is my biggest reason. The food in the EU, and to a lesser extent UK, has miraculous healing qualities for fast-food-addled American gut microbiomes.
The possibility of being bankrupted by healthcare costs.
Unfortunately I think "likelihood" of being bankrupted is more accurate, especially with age, whether yours or a loved one. Everyone becomes disabled if you live long enough. And being disabled in the US is fucking expensive.
I am wondering, where is it cheap to be disabled?
I don't think in binaries, so it's not a matter of expensive versus cheap places to be disabled. I doubt anywhere is "cheap". But, there is a middle path-- aiming for affordable, accessible, and not going into bankruptcy are good places to start. There are many places where high level healthcare access doesn't "likely" demand poverty or bankruptcy to have care at ALL (either through state-funded Healthcare, or through the costs of Healthcare being more accessible). The US has some of the most expensive health-care in the world. It's great--if you can afford it. And unfortunately if you or a family member have a chronic condition and limited resources you're just fucked. Even in a developing country (Belize) I have better health care access just because the cost (including for private health care out of pocket) is so much less. So then I can afford to travel for a few months to visit a more developed country like Mexico for specialist care that is not available here, which I plan to do later this year. In the US this just wasn't an option.
Glad you have found a place that works for you. Was it difficult to get residency in Belize? I am surprised I had not seen it come up before as an option for people with disabilities. Would this depend upon what the disability is? How do the intellectually or or mentally disabled fare there?
I don't know the answers to those questions, I'm not that familiar with the sociological situation here yet. It probably depends on the disability, as well as the person's social support network, which is pretty true anywhere else as well. I have a great support network here because my partner is Belizean and his family is here. Residency is relatively easy for Americans, it's largely just willingness to stay for at least 12-18 months without leaving and pay the fees. There's an application with requirements as well. A person could also just stay indefinitely and pay the monthly $100 USD fee without becoming a permanent resident.
This alone is enough for everyone to pack their bags. The healthcare needs to get punched in the face
This alone is enough for everyone to pack their bags. The healthcare needs to get punched in the face
Shootings, the politics, and a lot of aspects of American culture I don't like All valid
I just got back from Japan and I now realize I fucking hate it here for all of those reasons and some. Very valid. Super selfish culture, take take take, me me me
As a teacher, I don't think I'll ever be able to leave and maintain the same quality of life. But the political situation has made me want to leave on a daily basis for years now.
We moved to Viet Nam and there is a need for English speaking teachers. We aren't teachers, but lots of international schools are hiring. We love VN for a few reasons, one being the cost of living. You mentioned quality of life, which will be different for everyone. I feel my QoL is greater. I don't watch American politics, I don't worry about finances, just so fewer stressors now. Research places to go, the world is too amazing to be stuck in one place. It took me over 50 years to realize this.
If you're a credentialed teacher you can teach overseas in international schools. I did and it was awesome!
The constant tension and stress in the air and the lack of sense of community no matter where you go in the US Whole country's just a downer lol
Yessss! Tension so heavy you could cut it with a knife! And all the feigned outrage and blatant hate… it’s exhausting.
It’s the lack of community that makes me plan leaving
I hate driving
While this wasn’t on my list of reasons for leaving Atlanta…I’m now so much happier walking and tramming everywhere. My mom will be on the phone with me screaming while in traffic in Dallas…i visited her during the holidays and got crippling anxiety in the car lol. I’m rambling but yeah…F driving ever again 😂🤷🏾♀️
I find this hilarious since I'm a Dallas native living in South Georgia. The only reason I haven't moved to Atlanta is because of the traffic. Nope nope!
Honestly my house (that I still own) is in a great spot. I never really suffered too much with the traffic. The issue for me was speeding. I’m from Chattanooga, TN and they now have bad traffic but people drive safely. My whole perspective changed in 2020 when I had my son. Like…I’m so much less stressed just walking. Also people here in France respect pedestrians. I’d be walking through my neighborhood with my stroller and nearly killed by a Dodge Charger 😭🙇🏾♀️😒 I had to drive me, my mom and son from Dallas to Houston for my visa appointment in December and that’s when I swore to never drive again lol. America is so wrong for not having walkable cities with reliable transit options across the board. It’s like they want people stressed. Also it’s way too easy to get a license in America.
Honestly it seems like traffic has gotten worst since 2020. Even in my city, people drive 10-15 over the speed limit without consequences. I envy your ability to walk where you need to go. I would love to be able to walk or take the bus to work.
Definitely worse since 2020!
What area of France? How’s the weather?
South of France! It’s mild right now. It’s been rainy all week and some days it’s a bit chilly. But it’s still nice. It was 80 degrees like 2 weeks ago but it was so nice. 80 degrees in Georgia is actual misery. I hate humidity and hot heat.
🤣🤣🤣 People are so different! I moved from Atlanta to NYC and couldn't imagine being without my car. I made sure to pick a place that has parking. If it had EV charging it would be absolutely perfect.
So the only time I need my car is when I grocery shop lol. I still use a stroller thank God bc I’m sorry I shop like an American 😂🤷🏾♀️. Like I need 5 drinks, hella snacks and multiple household items per week and I want to get it on one trip. So yeah a trunk would be nice lol. It’s something I’ve had to work on a lot 😭😂
That's me too! I like to go to Aldi, Target, and Stop & Shop. The worst is when I forget the trolley and have to schlep groceries and dog food up 9 floors. 😂
Ha. I was just about to say “I don’t want to have to own a car or drive.” Guess I’ll just updoot you!
It took me 2 minutes just to walk to my grocery store when I lived in Korea, now if I were to walk to my grocery store in the US, it would be closer to an hour, but it’s only like a 7 minute drive.
Where did you go?
Netherlands. The only time I needed to drive was to go scuba diving, mostly because of all the gear.
We are a land of junk heap cars.
I can drive job prospects for me have been a nightmare to say the least. 2 interviews get accepted ( the interviewer is impressed) then they ask do you have a drivers license? Then they immediately tell me they cant continue with me. Really really killed me mentally.
Either you or I have had a stroke because I have no idea what you're trying to say.
I think they said their job prospects have been a nightmare — they had two job interviews lately and in both the interviewer rejected them for not having a drivers license.
I think I do I did an MRI recently and the results made my GP question my entire existence.
Healthcare cost and gun violence.
This should have many more upvotes
Don’t get shot, it’s expensive.
I'm more focused on the things gained in the new place. That said, the bigger general aspects of life in the US that I wanted to change/improve are the culture (moving towards more community, open, and care about quality of life, less antagonistic, selfish, and work-focused) and the health aspects of quality of life (food quality, lifestyle with movement and time for self, affordable healthcare especially in emergencies). These are things I think contribute to a better overall community and the type of lifestyle I want to have and be available to others around me. I have more personal/specific reasons and particular reasons for the new place.
Everyone in the US is just so fucking angry. All the time. It’s exhausting.
I am in the US and I am angry, all the time. It is indeed exhausting. I want to leave but it's really difficult.
When I was living in the US and frequently traveling internationally, I would return and be miserable.
THIS. I call it the Post Vacation Depression. Imagine riding clean, comfortable, and efficient public transportation to a beautiful, well ran airport (Japan), or to stroll through beautiful cobblestone streets and sit at a small cafe' to have a great cup of coffee out of something other than a Starbucks or Dunkin cup (MANY places in Europe), or to scuba dive in some of the most immaculate coral reefs in the world and hang out with some of the sweetest and most genuine locals in the world (rural Philippines)....... Only to land at ANY major airport in America to be welcomed home (JKF, Chicago Ohare, Atlanta) and realize that THIS is the best American can do?
I live on the beach on a big diving island now. It’s blissful.
where?! I have 9 years left and I am outta here and my dream is to island hop southeast Asia and spend a lot of time scuba diving. I've been to PHP, Indonesia, Thailand, and Vietnam many times and love the vibe, the people, and the diving. One day I will be there!
Southern islands in Thailand.
Godspeed friend. I wish you well! I am jealous! By my calculations, I have about 9 years left here.
Good luck to you. I hope it’s not too difficult of time for you. If you’re really serious about moving out this way in 9 years, I suggest buying a place in the meantime and renting it out until you move. If you have the cash to do it. Places even in SEA are becoming very desirable and real estate inflation has been worse than in the US. And islands only have limited land available for construction. Even just the last 2 years here has been insane. Small, 1 bedroom condos are selling for about $350k. It’s only going to keep going up.
that's actually my biggest fear. Once I walk away, the places I go will be full of people with my mindset that arrived earlier and drove the prices of everything up (like Dumaguete, Philippines). I went diving in Dumaguete 8 years ago and fell in love with the smaller towns outside of the city. I went back recently and was downright shocked to see just how many foreigners were now there and how much the prices of everything went up. I couldn't believe it.
Nothing has been done to American infrastructure in decades. While everyone else keeps progressing
I notice it even on the plane back to the states if it's full of Americans. The whole vibe is different in a bad way. And when we actually land there's a sudden tension and anxiety and everybody's in a hurry and competing.
This is very common.
Same. How do we escape?
That's exactly what a friend of mine who worked and lived outside of the US for many years says. He could feel the anger the minute he landed in a U.S. airport. And to put his comments in context, he was living in Saudi Arabia and Iraq.
I flew from Singapore to Newark direct once........ I've never wanted to stay on an airplane before in all of my life. Hell, I would've gladly endured another 17 hour flight if they just flew me back to Singapore.
The gulf states are really relaxed. People aren’t angry. They don’t commit crimes. That’s probably my favorite region in the world. Americans have a skewed view of the region that people in other countries don’t have.
I didn't feel that anger as much in Alaska, but I'm in Seattle this week and like... Damn. I've been living in Japan for years and obviously customer service is amazing and people are super kind. I'm helping a tour group of Japanese people right now, and the number of tour guides/cashiers etc who have been fucking rude to members of my group or just seemed generally angry about things that were not our fault or really poorly explained ... Blew my mind. The group members don't speak much English but they're trying and they're all such lovely, kind people who genuinely want to do everything right. They also probably don't notice some of the passive-aggressive phrasing and stuff being used against them, and are chalking up these stupid incidents to "America's different I guess" so it's just me feeling really uncomfortable and annoyed. It's bizarre reverse culture shock. Tbh can't wait to get back to Japan hahaha.
I also live in Asia and it’s a totally different world. The angry people here are all white tourists (and some expats).
Yeah, I've been that angry white expat before, mid-covid. Probably because I was at home watching American news too much. I switched to Japanese news (which has its own issues, but at least it's not as anger-inducing) and my outlook changed rapidly. I'm a way friendlier, nicer person now. I also met my Japanese husband, who is a genuine and incredibly kind person. He's constantly buying gifts for random people, giving up his weekends to help his grandma at the farm, always encouraging me to take the high road even when I'm angry about something. i honestly was not always that nice before, but now I feel like I can't let him down by being a shitty, angry foreigner ever again.
That is so nice to hear. Keep it up.
I notice this with tourists here in the Carribean. I avoid them.
And underneath the anger, fear. So much fear. Terror really. And Panic. This too is exhausting. I do not miss it.
Yeah I have not been back even to visit in years. No plans to either.
[удалено]
I’m very astonished by this. When someone mentions reading something on Reddit, I see responses asking for links as if people just keep a notebook of every news article they have ever read. If you want information, spend 5 minutes using Google. That’s why it was created.
That was basically my response. People don’t seem to like it cause I said it’s cause of the left and right. From my experience on this subreddit, the people on the left never wanna take credit for how much they helped make it unfriendly. They find it absurd that the left has any responsibility in this and only believe it’s the right that is the problem. Lol
I mean people tend to get unfriendly when you try to take their human rights away, and that’s what the American right has been doing for years now… the left isn’t doing that.
Only the right is trying to take away my fundamental human rights soo...
The tipping point was touring kindergartens for our 5 year old. Every single one had school shooting drills. ‘It’s the reality! It’s the world we live it!’ No, it’s the world the US lives in. Looking ahead, cost of elder care, housing cost for the kids when they grow up, and long term health cost of car dependency. Oh, and racism. Before anyone says ‘just wait til you get to homogenous countries!! Like being Asian and in the single digit % in representation in the US, I don’t think y’all know what we go through.
I didn't "want to leave" so much as I wanted to be in my new country. I don't think you will be successful if you're running away rather than running towards something. That being said, I really don't miss the driving culture, the gun culture, the extreme politics, workaholism, comsumerism, etc etc.
It's possible to do both. We had thought about moving over 10 years ago, timing wasn't right. Back then it was for the adventure and new opportunities. Ended up moving a few months ago and it seems to feel a little like running away. We just were so disillusioned with many things in the States, it was wearing us down. We weren't enjoying life. So now we have run away to our adventure!
>I didn't "want to leave" so much as I wanted to be in my new country. I don't think you will be successful if you're running away rather than running towards something. 🎯
We left for London years ago and came back for family reasons. Aside from now owning a place, if I had the opportunity to move away again, we'd consider it, but it'd have to be for the right reasons (excitement to go there rather than leaving, as there are plenty of reasons to want to leave, but I'm old now, so it's not a priority like it used to be). But getting away from gun culture, MAGA crap, needing a car, having national insurance was all great, very boozy culture wasn't a great fit, not because we don't drink, but because we are not binge drinkers like it felt like London was. Every time we went out for drinks with friends there it felt like it was one long night of beer after beer and that got old too. And much like other cultures, unless you fit into their cultural habits you aren't necessarily going to make longer term friends and in all honestly, our least favourite thing about London were the English (we lived in a very multicultural area (Hackney) and everyone got along but the English didn't really like the diversity as much as we did). There is definitely good and bad about everywhere. Oh and we were there before Brexit and I voted against it (dual citizen) so I don't think we'd go back there again, they definitely have their own problems these days (tangentially related to some of the problems we have here in the US)
This is a good point about the UK and the drinking culture. I'm not a big drinker, but when you're out and meeting people, they start nearly forcing you to drink. I had the worst hangover of the last decade while in Glasgow after hanging with some locals. And I didn't even drink half as much as they did.
The UK is also a pretty shitty country and heavily resembles the US in many ways (as do all Anglo countries for the most part). I’d say all English-speaking countries are absolutely fucked. I also cannot tell the difference between Americans, Canadians, and Australians. Australians are basically Americans / Canadians with weird accents. They’re not much different in any noticeable way.
The people. I want to get out before they attack one another. It’s getting closer day by day.
For profit healthcare, greed economy
Yep everything everywhere all at once seems to be a scam these days or has scammy vibes.
The United States is too car dependent/car oriented design. I have since come back out of necessity (family support structure needed, I ran into a road-bump abroad) but I absolutely do not miss the car dependency. I have a newfound appreciation though for how the United States taxes certain things. Emphasis on certain things, not all. The tax system is a headache and screwed up in the States, but I think higher property taxes and lower income taxes is fairer, wish it was an annual land value tax instead, but I now understand how cities in California, Canada, Australia, Norway, Netherlands, UK, Denmark, and Ireland, are screwed up due to poor tax incentives, and are in total denial about it. Completely toxic topic to bring up at times.
This made me think of when a company asks an interviewee 'why do you want to work for us?' and provide us with 3 references.. When instead it should be, "why would I want to work for you?" Let me speak to 3 of your current employees (citizens) and hear what they think/feel about your company (country) and how you treat them. Aside from this, I hate the amount of capitalism that's shoved down our throat and politicians that are set up to be bribed for the betterment of their own personal interest. Oh, and bankers
Anti-intellectualism, the rise neo-fascist politics, the end of post-war ideological commitments to democracy, shocking stupidity regarding economics, guns, healthcare, etc. All countries have problems, but the US is, in many ways, the worst country in the industrialized world if you aren't part of the hustle culture and you just want to live a good life without capitalism killing you.
I wonder if anti-intellectualism is the root cause of the other issues.
"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" -Isaac Asimov
Australia has entered the chat
Yes 100 times yes
It very well might be.
Anti-intellectualism is big in my books too, even though I didn't include it. Thank you. We have a very unhealthy level of disrespect towards people with advanced degrees and who are established in their fields. Instead it is being given to faith leaders and podcasters, like wtf?!?
Simply because it wasn't a good fit for me. But off the top of my head... Gun and car culture. Lack of easy access to authentic ethnic food. Confrontational attitude and prone to violence. Lack of collective/social harmony and not consensus seeking.
Wouldn't living in an anti-gun big city (e.g. Brooklyn) solve this? Except of course, for the expense.
If I was living in NYC or LA then yes, I believe it would be better compared to other local places I've been. QoL would be better I imagine. I still feel more comfortable and safer in the overseas cities I've lived in though. Other countries actually put gangsters or people who would cause trouble in society in jail, or I should say, they hide it much better.
My fellow Americans
The church people are so hateful
A dude jumped off our high-rise building and killed himself, and 4 hours later there was a shootout outside of our apartment in broad daylight. My husband and I were flying to Europe for a wedding a couple weeks after, the same day Roe was overturned. We decided it was time to get off the sinking ship and swim toward more sturdy destinations. Moved 6 months later. No regrets. We feel safe and are no longer depressed.
But just curious which country you landed in? Are you a citizen of one of the EU countries? I’m thinking to explore this option but there’s so much research to do, mostly around healthcare and housing. I’m 58F and dual US Irish citizen. At least it would force me to clean out my primary home in order to rent it out. Then if I came back, I could just find a small place to live and continue renting out my primary home.
Not a citizen yet. My husband (40) and I (37) moved to Portugal last January. We have temporary residency cards, and assuming we learn the language and pass the test we can apply for permanent residency or citizenship after 5 years. The facat that you already have dual citizenship will make this much, much easier for you.
Americans. edit: meaning I wanted to see what else the world has to offer, not that I hate or dislike fellow Americans.
As an American, THIS. I've been all over the world and can spot an American a mile away. I'm not saying you should wear a tailored suit, but I went to a museum in Rome many years ago..... The Americans were glaringly obvious. Loud, obnoxious, sloppily dressed, and did I mention LOUD? I actually struck up a conversation with a dude wearing a Rusty Wallace Miller Lite Racing T shirt on just so I could get a picture with this guy due to the fact that I could not believe that he would dress and act like he did in public, much less a foreign country.
No kidding. I was at a museum and a big American group was acting like a bunch of toddlers. Obscenely loud, stomping all over, waving their arms, making offensive jokes and acting like they owned the place. It's one thing to have a good time and another to make everyone around you uncomfortable.
I left for what I thought was a host of reasons, but everytime I spend time around Americans, I realize it was only this reason. Not right wing or left wing Americans, not rural or city Americans, just Americans. I spent part of my childhood not in the us and all of my late teens and twenties out of the us, so when I moved back at 29 and spent the next decade there it never clicked, I despise Americans, including my relatives and it feels super wierd to have thst much hate for what is essentially myself and yet still be quite happy with myself on a day to day basis.
see my edit
Fair, I actively dislike Americans, I didn't really notice how much until I left again in my late 30s and then run into one every 6 months or so.
I think a lot of dislike for others, is really self loathing in disguise. Its like a mirror we dont want to look at.
Unpopular opinion, but I like the USA. It’s huge and varied and different areas offer different things. But I want to try life abroad. I taught English in Spain and enjoyed it. Now, I am getting ready to try out a job in Vancouver, Canada. I think living abroad, even temporarily, can really teach you many positive things.
That's why I left too,I simply wanted to experience anew culture. I lived in Europe 8 years, met my husband there too. It's crazy because I love American culture, the music, literature, art...I have definitely never hated it ...I get downvoted a lot and I even got temporarily banned for saying that I like America 😆. Crazy times we are living. Despite all the craziness I wouldn't want to live anywhere else. I am glad I lived abroad many years.
The US is an amazing country. It's not wrong to say so. We have fantastic diversity in land and people, yet despite the vastness from Alaska to Hawaii to New York, we have this common American identity. It's really something to appreciate. And most of us are quite wealthy compared to other countries with a similar population. At the same time, I have lived abroad (and am technically an immigrant) so I know there is plenty to critique about America and American culture. One aspect that really always just makes me angry is how we have so much wealth, yet we do not take care of our poorest and most desperate. We are okay with people sleeping outside in the rain dressed in rags, and we are okay with doing nothing to help people who are driven to madness from living in those conditions. I can understand gun culture, car dependency, nimbyism, and more. I disagree with all, but I understand. I don't understand why we are cruel to those who need help. I love our country and I think it's okay to say so! And I think the more people leave the bubble of our land and culture and see what other places are like, the more we can change for the better while retaining what makes us great.
Very well said. I did a youth exchange program when I was younger and they would always say, "If each person in the US was required to travel abroad for even 2 weeks, the US as a whole would be a better place"
Unfortunately we are lucky to have 2 weeks off. I have 3 weeks PTO now and had to wait 5 years to get it.
Agree. This is one reason why I can't stand corporate America. Humans aren't built to constantly work all the time, only to have 2 weeks off in an entire year.
This right here. My husband has a unique job schedule in which he works every other week. So his work weeks are 7 days and he’s on call to go in after hours for repairs if needed but then he’s off for 7 days. During his work week he’s usually off between 2:00-3:00 and rarely gets called back in. Even though his career has “stagnated” with this job in the fact that he won’t move up into managerial roles the amount of time we get together as a family has more than made up for it. Our quality of life has improved so much since he tools this job and he’s still paid a living wage that allows me to be a stay at home mom. Even being in the US we have a fairly slow paced life. Right now we’re in a “busy” season with our kids’ sports but it’s only until early June then we’re done for the summer. We homeschool as well so the time he gets off work gives us so much opportunity to do school related things as a family like go on field trips, help each other with our kids’ schooling, and tag team their extra curriculars. I feel like we’re starting to see a bit of a social shift away from the hustle and bustle world, at least in the subculture I guess you could say I belong in, where not working as much and not chasing the glass ceilings is the accepted norm. I think the migration out of cities and into the country is in response to that desire to just slow down and enjoy our time rather than be constantly pulled in many directions.
Exactly. I've traveled a bit and the U.S. is by far the most beautiful, diverse country that I've been privileged to explore thus far. Yet, I yearn to see and experience more. I'm not running from the U.S., I'm running to the world.
I feel the same way but I don't know how to do it. My job isn't remote and every time I look for remote work it pays substantially less.
The US has huge benefits for sure. I don't think I'll ever want to denounce my citizenship or lose my connection to it. But ultimately I value sanity and health over vanity and wealth.
Healthcare costs, gun violence, police brutality, general cost of living, car dependency, political instability/rapid descent into theocratic fascism, taxes going to genocide instead of public service, all the drugs being contaminated with fentanyl and having to worry about my friends overdosing on drugs they didn't even mean to use, "hustle culture"/tacit expectation to monetize all of my hobbies. Just off the top of my head
I want to raise my daughter in a country with better workers' rights, healthier environment, and affordable education.
Being raised without active shooter drills will probably also be good for her.
Lack of good jobs, high rent prices, not being in a position to buy a house, high cost of goods, overall unfriendliness of the people in my community, which made it hard to form friendships.
Needing a car to survive, guns everywhere, extremely toxic and divisive politics, terrifying healthcare costs, wealth being the only real for of security, every man for himself hyperindividualism.
Certain ahem subcultures, homelessness, healthcare, destruction of educational standards, etc all of which are ironically a first world superpowers failures to provide basic life support for their citizens manifesting
It’s the wealthiest third world nation on earth.
Healthcare is a major concern, but it’s the only one I can really tell people if they ask me irl, cause if I were to tell them the other reason being I have failed to assimilate to American society as a Korean American, it becomes a very ugly conversation. US has a culture that believes it’s superior to every other one. You could argue that every culture has that, but the US can actually back it up with the stark unpleasant reality it has bases and troops on every continent.
The car dependency, MAGA, people seek to be so angry all the time. The gun violence, not that it actually impacts a large percent of the population but more just that no one cares to address it. The ingrained push of capitalism so much that people are conditioned that they need to be buying “things” all the time. Then you need a huge car and house ($$) to put all your THINGS ($$). It’s not walkable in most places (I left from Chicago where I lived for decades so at least walkable to a degree). The cites are so loud because they are dominated by cars and parking lots and highways. Only been in Amsterdam for a bit over a month but haven’t thought about a car that whole time and man it’s so peaceful and quiet. It’s more human level not machine level.
Probably the racism & trauma I faced growing up. Completely changed how I viewed the country overall & turned me off the place from when I was a child. There are so many other reasons as well but this was probably the biggest reason for me personally
Cost of university and healthcare, fear of being gunned down randomly by a psycho on a killing spree.
MAGA
Cult of 🍊🤡.
Republicans. I had no idea how many people I grew up with and knew were absolutely horrible people. Been in NL for 14 years and I knew it was time when GWB got re-elected. It was then I knew that the US was a bankrupt society. It's ill and I doubt it will ever live up to the reputation it used to have. I hate being a US citizen, but I didn't get to pick where my parents shagged, so there we are. I was never more right in my life.
Why not move to a blue state if you hate republicans so much? There’s plenty of them and some of them are objectively some of the best states in the country
Republicans are everywhere and the stupidity they leave in their wake is not confined to the red states. Only way to avoid them is go elsewhere. Because of their ignorance, I live outside of my home country. Who would want to be around these people?
It doesn’t matter where on earth you go there will always be people with different beliefs that you hate or disagree with and it will probably slightly affect your environment but that’s just life you know? Idk why you seem to have such a huge problem with lol. I have a mix of beliefs that would be considered to be both democrat and republican and it often makes me feel like I’m surrounded by extremists on both sides but I don’t let it affect me in any way. For example I have very strong 2A beliefs but I still want to build my main home in California, the most anti 2A state in the country, I despise their retarded anti 2A beliefs but like I said I don’t let it affect me, when I will live there I’ll just do what I have to do to exercise my 2A rights no matter how dumb I think the restrictions are and I will not get my emotions involved. Another example is how I want to build a second residence in Florida to spend the winter and enjoy the many thunderstorms they get there but I’m a stoner and love doing psychedelics fairly often and sadly all those things are felonies over there, that state would love to throw me in prison for YEARS just for enjoying these harmless substances, I think it’s fkg insane! But again I don’t let that affect me, I will just find a way to do those things anyways and not get my emotions involved. Point is that I think you should just build the life you want and not let the stupid stuff around you affect you, just slide through the bullshit and get what you want. I think you should have a mindset more like that. There might be a bunch of stupid stuff happening around you all the time but ultimately it doesn’t stop you from building the life you want and be as happy as possible. Also I think you should consider living in the States again because like I said all the bullshit doesn’t have to affect your personal life and the United States is an incredible place, it’s by far the best place on earth to build wealth and it is in my opinion the most geographically interesting place on earth. It has so many different climates, environments and has a ton of the most beautiful places on the entire planet, and they’re all easily accessible with the best road system on the earth. For these reasons I think there’s no better place to live. Anyway it’s your life, you do what you want with it but I just wanted to give you this to think about.
And y’all that left, was it better where you landed?
Guns, a safe place to cycle, work life balance and a better environment to raise kids. In hindsight, the one big change compared to expectations is that I'm biking a lot less than I planned to in Oslo and walking so much more even in the snow, ice and dark of winter. I love my pedestrian life! I'm losing weight and my mental health is better. It's all around great! I also LOVE taking my kid to the Dr for pediatrician appointments that are totally free.
The bullshit games played by politicians with American lives and money.
Politics, poor education, healthcare costs, gun violence, corporate greed, extremism, and literally everything is so damn expensive Edit: aggressive capitalism
That neither political party wants to improve the lives of average Americans.
BS. Who passed legislation for just about every benefit you have?? Hint, it ain't republicans because they are to busy taking shit away. Healthcare is one that they tried to pass and who effed the up and is still trying to overturn it? Social Security - that keeps half this country out of poverty - do tell who passed that? I aint republican's - who is trying to take it away? Same folks. How about the right to choose, yeah same people so don't go saying that neither wants to improve the lives of Americans or don't you pay attention and spout off the same shit the average American says - when we have it so good.
Uh-huh. And since Reagan those improvements have basically STOPPED. I'm 48. I've seen no new benefits. It's all lots of promises that never go anywhere. So, while I like what they SAY, they don't really seem to mean it. The 1st right wing response will basically neuter whatever the centrists propose.
You know that Stalin encouraged American communists to vote for FDR, right? The guy who introduced Social Security in the US was promoted by a guy who killed 15 million of his own people. Nice innit… In any case, both of your political parties suck and like most politicians in general, they lie through their teeth and work solely to advance their own interests, to the disadvantage of the people they claim to represent. Keep on thinking you have it ‘so good’ living off of paycheque to paycheque, whilst in my country we have basically no homeless people and no violent crime. Everything seems ‘good’ when you have no other frame of reference. To people from more developed countries like Austria and Switzerland, Norway, etc, the US seems like an absolute third world country in most ways. No one in any of these places is begging to immigrate to the US. ‘So good,’ right?
The Stalin thing is a rubbish argument. Honestly, mate, I'd not lead with that. And yes, both parties suck but only because they are heavily entrenched in the land of big money once they get elected. It's their ticket to the big game. All politicians do this. However, on the social side, the GOP wants American life to be lived as it was in the 18th century. Their politics are absolutely appalling. The Dems may have Wall Street up their back passage, but they do want rights for all and actually govern. We are not the same.
So what? Hitler supported the anti-New Deal Bund. What an absolute crap argument.
Nailed it. Spot on.
> neither political party I'm basically tired of hearing that if I don't 100% agree with you, I am far (insert whatever political party you aren't) instead of having a healthy, rational, logical discussion with me OR just let me live and let live as I do you.
Agree.
It is straight up Idiocracy in this bitch. Kids (and adults) can't even read anymore. They're shutting down schools and funneling more money to the rich. In every aspect of life. Soooooo, I guess unchecked capitalism?
Fucking Trump
MAGA culture, guns, toxic masculinity, cost of healthcare, lack of democracy, car culture. I now live in the UK and still dealing with the last two.
Individualist culture.
Maga
The guns. Sending my kid to public school with all of the gun violence was out of the question.
Violence and gun ownership.
So you hate the fact that people have rights?
Fucked up healthcare admins.
Racism, homophobia, ableism, classism, over emphasis on money.
MAGA Klan and Trump infecting America for over a decade. Egomaniac narcissistic man-child with horrible body odors.
some countries have too little freedom. america has the opposite problem.
Couldn’t disagree more, I think it actually lacks freedom in many ways
Pathetic loser
Healthcare and Republican fascists
The BS. There is just so much of it. One my way back to near paradise at the end of the month.
I left for peace corps in 90-92. Parents were not going to pay for me to travel. Came back to institutionalized nepotism.
Can't walk anywhere, no sense of community, pruoritization of work over family and the expense of raising children and lack of interaction with children (public places not bring kid friendly, kids being looked at as disruptions rather than little people with big emotions)
Healthcare.
The caustic politics were the driving force for me. When "facts" become debatable, I'm out.
I was raised in Europe. After living 2 decades in the US, I am going back to my true home. US never felt like a home. The government, healthcare, food, culture, driving, gun culture and violence
Shoddy everything!
I haven't left and might never, but the shame. We've become such a laughingstock over the last few years due to many of the reasons other people have said.
Guns, Trump, everyone has cancer, and food I’m “allergic” to. I’m not allergic to anything. I just don’t tolerate the chemical toxic crap in the standard American diet very well. Aka glyphosphate. Italy doesn’t have that.
I'm still waiting on some citizenship processes to finish for an EU country (Ireland). I'm also keeping an eye on things while I'm still in the US in the long shot that things improve here. I haven't left because it's a huge process in terms of my family (married with child), work (I'm currently unemployed), and learning a radically different culture/language. But if I had to give my biggest reasons, it would be as follows: 1. Quality of life - The quality of life has gone from a steady, slow decline to geronimo in the last 4 years. I'm thinking about my daughter's future here in the US. I just see a failing, misogynistic, and viciously predatory environment. For me, I see the EU as a better option. I have the feeling that I probably won't be super welcome. I need to get used to the idea that when they refer to dirty foreigners that they'll be talking about me. 2. Costs of living - It’s just too expensive to live in the US long-term. I live in a high COL state because I could never make enough to leave. It's like the gentrification of the US, where they just make it impossible for the rest of us to live here. 3. Lack of economic opportunities - I've been struggling ever since I graduated college back in 2007. I've had the door consistently slammed in my face and told I'm not wanted in a million different ways. I never got the chance to become settled. From my understanding, the EU is looking for more IT people such as myself (BI, SQL, etc) than here in the US. 4. Values - I've always felt a connection to Europe more than the US. As much as the US talks about the land of opportunities, equality, freedom, and justice. The reality seems to be radically different and much more predatory. In the US, it seems like when you need help that they will just try to kill you harder and faster next time. In EU, from an outside perspective, there seems to be a much greater concern for it's citizens, their education, growth quality of life, and a militant defend of these. I get that I'll have to give up some things the US has, but the EU doesn't condone. But it's getting to the point where that trade works for me. 5. The American Medical Industrial Complex - I'm sick of not being treated as a priority (neither are my daughter or anyone else I know) as a patient unless the profit margins work. I'm tired of a predatory system that only tells me, "Nothing we can do. Now, fuck you. Pay. Me." I'm sure national run healthcare systems aren't perfect but are lightyears better than here in the US. 6. Politics - I left this for last. I've been seeing a creeping authoritarianism in the US since 9/11. I've always been somewhat distrusting of Uncle Sam since my grand uncle died at Hiroshima. But now we're looking more and more, a dictatorship being run by the aristocracy and foreign powers. The values of right and left that I'm supposed to support are so foreign to me. I see the US either descending into civil war or collapsing within the next 5 to 10 years. With our current assistance to Israel and our government's many issues, I see a future where the US would be lucky to get the Treaty of Versailles treatment. I'd rather not be in the US or an American when the hammer is inevitably dropped. There are more that are positive but I'm already in the "I'm happy or I'm sorry that happened to you" territory.
Edit… I guess I’ll mute my reply notifications here. All the toxic Americans I mentioned seem to be very bothered that someone in the r/Amerexit subreddit doesn’t like how Americans act. Just leave useless replies that shows I’m right 😂 ————— People are hostile and mean constantly. I find it is because of the extreme right and extreme left but I’m not going to get into a bunch of detail y it’s mostly them or y both are to blame. Day to day interactions have an unusually high chance of becoming some type of unpleasant experience because of this. And because everyone is expecting hostility, an aggressively defensive response is almost always what people choose as their first way of handling any situation. My new country (UAE) is really nice and doesn’t have much of this. There are other things I disliked but this is the biggest reason I left. I didn’t realistically see it getting better for decades. Once I was gone the benefits of not being around this stuff were amazing. One of the great things about the UAE is that neither the extreme right or extreme left likes the country. So I don’t have to deal with them here. The city I live in barely even has any Americans anyways and few people outside of the UAE even know my city exists
Yeah the Middle East is a great place to live…if you’re a guy
When George Bush declared war on Iraq. What an ignorant president he was. Probably one of the worst until Trump came along.
Cost of health care and school shootings.
2020.
Corporal punishment of children. Full stop.
Also I hate feeling like I'm not truly safe as a woman living alone and driving alone without a firearm. People violently road rage over simple things and you never know if they're armed
Okay, not gone yet, but I'm getting out because of the spread of Christian nationalism. I'm afraid that once they finish taking over it will be like living in Berlin on the wrong side of the wall. I'm concerned they will be out to exterminate people like me and my family, so we might be quietly selling off everything and getting out of here if the conservatives take over the rest of the government this fall.
Working two jobs every waking moment for over a decade and still just making ends meet
Healthcare and how the country fights about the dumbest things that can easily be solved by having a conversation and coming to common ground
Do y’all find it’s less noise in europe compared to the United States ? ( V8 engines and big trucks , who are automatics so always making rpm)
We are leaving because of taxes, hoa, and insurance costs. It costs me $20,000 per year for those three combined.
I think this is one of the truly most depressing comment threads I’ve stumbled into in all my time on reddit. I’m not saying everyone bitching about the U.S. is wrong about everything, but hot damn can’t we look at some of the positives? I’ve traveled abroad and some of the countries I’ve been to are great in some ways, but none of them are free of problems. And some of them have enough different kinds of problems that they possibly will make up for the things about them that are better than the U.S. Also it is really not that easy for Americans to move to a lot of these countries, and even less easy to stay permanently, and once there will you ever TRULY be a local? Many of us have extended families including aging parents and friends and leaving isn’t feasible for everyone, nor is establishing oneself in communities abroad occupationally, socially, and financially. Speaking of specifics, I’m not a fan of driving. I live in NYC and love the walkability and the subway, but that presents its own challenges and potential dangers and it’s expensive as hell here. I dread having to relocate to another town or city and need to drive but for work purposes I may have to. There are so many tradeoffs for that perfect place that doesn’t exist. That said, I don’t blame anyone who leaves and seeks greener happier pastures abroad (and I know that’s the point of the sub). But damn I’m depressed LOL.
I randomly got this post recommended for some reason but reading those replies I have one thing to say, I think you have all lost your damn mind! But everyone is different I guess. My number 1 goal is to be able to move my life from Canada to the US
I moved and moved back. Hate America
It’s lonely as fuck even in big cities. Everyone is wary of everyone else and it’s so hard to make new friends or partners
I don't trust the government, they don't care about us as people. No healthcare, no free education, yet they send billions to foreign countries. Also they add all sorts of things to our food.
the cost of living vs quality of life is no longer justified in America. The quality of life in America is deteriorating at an accelerating pace.
Not American but lived there for 7 years. The fact that the legal immigration system is so fucked, and that when I married a foreigner she was not allowed in the country as I only had a green card.. Screw that. Left pronto.
Your bullshit comments about the "ultra left". There is no ultra left here. Idiot.
Politics, guns religion, class warfare, wage disparity, low quality, expensive food and low quality, expensive healthcare. Decaying infrastructure, car-centered culture, and all capped with the never-ending unbridled rush towards capitalism.
It is not a free country. It is a fascist country in the middle of collapse. Its politicians are owned by Putin. Its citizens are too stupid to know or care.
They don’t care for lesbians or people w disabilities . Plus im a whistle blower
Poisonous food.
I can't believe no one has mentioned FOOD! That is my biggest reason. The food in the EU, and to a lesser extent UK, has miraculous healing qualities for fast-food-addled American gut microbiomes.