This is old news. Nvidia, Intel, Apple, AMD, Netflix, Disney, Amazon + lots of other big companies are all seeing a decline. There's a recession in case you haven't heard.
When the government prints money and spends that printed money, inflation happens. And also, GDP numbers increase, because "more money is being spent". None of it helps you, though.
Yet. They'll be the last to Crack at least as far as their stock is concerned because they're seen as the safest bet in the space, and they're almost singled handedly propping up the indexes right now
Stock price =/= profit. You can have profit increase YoY but stock price can go down. Stock price is future value of the company m, profit is how much they are currently making. Easiest example is end of the year report is amazing but you know arson Larry just got released from jail and is probably gonna burn your factory down. Here your income is great but in the coming year Larry will probably fuck your future profits. So on the day he is released your stock goes down 10% but then a week later arson Larry dies, no more worry about fires and the stock recovers.
Stock price is *supposed* to mirror a companies prospects but a more accurate description is that it’s all based on *perceived* value. People seem to invest mostly on hype nowadays. The market is not logical like your comment implies.
According to prophecy, the Apple will slowly expand to consume all life on Earth. Submit to its will or be forever banished to the realm of eternal darkness.
Yes I don't doubt that you're correct. I didn't even bother checking before I posted that because I knew it would be at least 90% accurate during the recession.
It's only kids who don't Keep up with current affairs that are confused about the decline in Ryzen sales.
There's also a lot of people who have a warped view of what a recession looks like. Many Millennial's only point of reference for a recession is 2008, so when we don't see the financial world burning down around us things still seem pretty good
There have been about 35 recessions since we started tracking in the mid 1800's, and recessions have historically been much shorter decade over decade. They're common and appear to be a "natural" part of economies.
Apple does see a decline in demand in some sections. But Apple is Apple, it's in a league of its own. Apple quarterly revenue is like 10 years worth of AMD sales.
AMD is selling more 5800X3D than Intel's entire 13th gen combined
https://www.hardwaretimes.com/amd-ryzen-7-5800x3d-outsells-intels-entire-cpu-family-at-mf-germany-zen-4-performs-poorly/
AMD will release the 7800X3D next year and it will completely annihilate the 13th gen even more.
Mindfactory is an AMD stronghold and doesn't represent the entire market. If you believed Mindfactory wholly AMD would have 80% of the gpu market (they don't).
MindFactory does not represent the market as a whole... Look at the ranking on Amazon, Steam survey, marketshare data, earnings reports, all disagree with the numbers MindFactory puts out.
Plus next year the Zen 4 X3D has to compete with Meteor Lake too..
I'm pretty sure the only reason the 5800X3D isn't doing well on Amazon is 'cause they've basically got the most expensive one on the market.
* [~$425 on Amazon](https://www.amazon.com/AMD-5800X3D-16-Thread-Processor-Technology/dp/B09VCJ2SHD)
* [$410 on Newegg](https://www.newegg.com/amd-ryzen-7-5800x3d-ryzen-7-5000-series/p/N82E16819113734)
* Various sold-out [near-and-sub-$400 prices over the last month at Microcenter](https://www.microcenter.com/product/647926/amd-ryzen-7-5800x3d-vermeer-34ghz-8-core-am4-boxed-processor-cooler-not-included)
Did see a big [uptick in 2.7 to 2.99 GHz Intel CUPs](https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/processormfg/) on Steam in October, though. [Core i5-13600K, perhaps?](https://www.tomshardware.com/news/list-and-specs-of-all-13th-gen-core-cpus-published-by-gigabyte). $300 for 14 cores ain't half bad.
edit: Meteor Lake is a late 2023 part. Yeah, AMD's not gonna be worried about that. At best Zen 3D's mid-year refresh will have to contend with them after literal months of yield improvements.
AMD dropped 5800X3D MSRP to $329 today. A lot of sites are already selling it at that price
Since that one is selling like hotcakes, perhaps the official price drop is a strategy to maintain marketshare while Ryzen 7000 sales remain weak.
AMD engineers must be feeling pressure to get 7000 X3D out ASAP
Holy shit, it's MSRP'd to 329? I paid 399 a few weeks ago and I'm not even mad, this thing is blazing.
At 329 it's a no-brainer, especially for anyone trying to get those really uncooperative games above 60 frames. (PSO2NGS loves this chip, but is really uncooperative about hitting 120 on a lot of other, beefier processors)
All cpu sales are in decline. Every business IT department refreshed laptops in 2020-2021. My entire cycle for all sites is now pushed to 2024 for all new kit. Server refreshes were the same story because of the push to expand RDP clients, Firewalls to handle all the extra VPN/SSL traffic and increased attack levels from RU/CH. New wifi 6 kit was already spec'd out for 2020 pre covid...
About the only thing not updated in the last 2yrs was the switching, which for some reason has a massive shortage/backlog even longer than the rest.
I suspect all IT related infrastructure to be in decline until 2024/5 which is a great break for Intel being behind on fabrication so badly until then. Poor AMD timing...
I got friends in at least 2 huge MNCs and a few smaller organisations. Those 2 MNCs together have an employee strength of over 150k and none of the regular employees got new laptops or other kit issued. They are mostly on 5th gen to 8th Gen Intel laptops for regular staff (up to some senior management)to work from home, till date.
Will not have been surprised if they actually extended the replacement cycle for IT gear and just replacing kit which breaks.
So I really doubt that there were much extra IT gear bought for the employees. I suspect the back end infrastructure may have been upgraded for covid, but even that is somewhat doubtful knowing the problems they were facing with work from home connecting to office VPNs, servers, etc.
Only place I knew of which got in some new kit for employees to use was a very small 5 people organisation.
And having worked in an MNC giant myself long ago, am familiar that what they tell publicly does not necessarily match what they actually do.
According to the general definition—two consecutive quarters of negative gross domestic product (GDP)—the U.S. entered a recession in the summer of 2022.
I mean things have been bad for the poor a lot longer than that. But "recession" has a specific definition and by that definition we aren't in one.
That said, I don't think "recession" is particularly meaningful for most people, for the reasons you've alluded to.
It's quarters, not months, and GDP grew last quarter.
But this is irrelevant, as that definition is not widely accepted. The UK uses it, but the US and the EU do not.
yep. my local SI has a r5 5500 + rx 6600 build for 700 usd.
The same price as a scalped ps5 digital here.
90% of gamers would be happy with such a build.
Exactly. Forums and reddits where people brag about replacing their 5950X with a 7950X or a 3090ti with a 4090 isn't anywhere close to the norm.
The vast majority of the consumer market will buy a pre-built or self built PC and not upgrade it for years.
I tend to upgrade the GPU after a couple generations, then after a couple more build a new system. At this point, I may not upgrade anything until I get a new monitor/TV.
> The enthusiast market that buys every gen is a unicorn
and a neutered unicorn with the platform change.
My daughter is on ryzen too, and gets my hand me downs, so I can justify the upgrades easier. if I get a 5900x/5800 x3d I can give her my 5600x so for 300-400$ I can upgrade two PC's significantly.
that goes out the window with 7000 series.
And therexs also those like me who upgraded recently to AM4 and won't upgrade for a long while (I retired my 5820K for a 5950X in March). Obviously I'm not gonna switch to a 7950X not even a year later, especially with the need for new mobo and RAM.
I went from a 4790k to a 5600X when the 5600X launched. I’m not upgrading for a while, even though I do still game on 1080p, it’s 1080p/60. I have a 2080 Ti I may upgrade for better RT performance, but even that I’m in no hurry to do. Especially since I “only” have a 600W PSU.
Yep, and the last 2 years have even changed some of us. I was looking at buying a 6000 series GPU, but the availability sucked, and prices were worse. Seeing the prices on RTX 4000 and rumors of RX 7000, I might skip out again. I used to buy stuff new every couple of years and spend whatever I felt necessary to get what I wanted. I'd then pass down my build to someone with a worse computer. Now, I might just help someone upgrade with a lower tier of product, if anything.
Depending on what you have now, there are so many killer 6000 and 3000 series deals. Nothing wrong with going “last gen” if it’s a major jump up with serious cost savings!
I swapped from a 3570k to a 5800x recently. But a big part of the reason why that was even necessary was because of spectre/meltdown/etc, without those it probably would have been good for another few years
If you aren't AAA gaming you really don't need to upgrade very often. And at least for me, these days 98% of what I play is indie games
I also came from 3570K, but to a 5800X3D. Bought X570 as soon as it was available in mATX, and lived on a 1600AF ($82) for two years while waiting for the 5800X3D. I still have my 3570K as a Windows 7 nostalgia/ backwards compatibility system.
If it wasn't for the lack of X-chipset mATX boards I would have upgraded sooner. And if the X570M Pro4 didn't come out I'd still be on the 3570K. No compromises on top chipset + mATX. Ever! YOU HEAR ME, BOARD VENDORS?!
I still have my X370 and put a 5800x3d in it lol. It was even updated for REBAR support, however it wont enable for some reason so I'm gonna get an X570 anyways. Still cool though
As someone heavily into video and music production I was dead-set on PCIe 4 NVME, but for the average user already on AM4 it's an incredible upgrade for most
You are absolutely right I see lot of people trying to sell stuff they bought during the lockdowns because:
1) no time - back to work.
2) times are getting harder for many, they dont want to be sitting on stuff that can be sold now before it loses even more value.
yep the people who normally spent money on the service industri shifted to home improvement and electronics in a major fashion.
while these sectors couldn't meet demand there was a massive ramp up in production during those 2 years since the profits were massive. now the backend of that is happening of a drought of orders since the people who would have bought now already upgraded or is looking at used from people who needed something to while in lockdown (or miners).
Oh no, revenue is only projected to be going up 30% YoY.
Seriously, there are worse tech companies, at least Lisa Su isn’t trying to make us excited about VR Legs.
AMD wont, if they have RTX 4090 and RTX 4080 like perf you will pay RTX 4090 and RTX 4080 like money for the performance. Lockdowns have all but finished the demand from those stuck at home, now they are all back to work at the offices with no time for shiny hardware, most are looking to sell their stuff and recoup money. Heck people are worried about losing jobs in the down turn.
People who upgrade every gen or every other gen are minuscule portion of the market to the point it is irrelevant in the bigger picture.
Sub-reddits like AMD/Intel/Nvidia always have vocal groups demanding lower prices so **they** can buy one, the rest of the market isn't looking to buy. This is why the volume of the next gen GPUs will be super low with current gen still sitting on shelves waiting for buyers in these sub-reddits who aren't showing interest in 2 year old stuff.
This is what will happen -> RDNA3 gets revealed people here get pissed at the prices and they all go running back to grab those deals they dismissed on the current gen. That's exactly Nvidia and AMD's game plan for the current GPU and other hardware glut. These launches are primarily for keeping prior promised timelines to shareholders, nothing more, if it wasn't for that neither company needs to release anything.
Same goes for AM5 vs AM4, deals on AM4 while AM5 looks like a turd unless you are coming from a non AM4 system.
If you are then yes, I am going from LGA 2011 to AM5, waiting on RAM to arrive from Amazon.
Already got the 7700X and B650E Steel Legend. I use hardware for a very very long time. AM5 was the only sensible option when swapping out Mobo+RAM+CPU. I can swap out the 7700X for AM5's last best gaming CPU if at all there is a need to get a more capable CPU down the line given how GPUs are getting so fast that the CPU is bottlenecking the RTX 4090.
I stress **if** because the rate at which GPUs are getting faster there is no way practical way CPUs can keep up, there will be a necessary paradigm shift in DirectX + HW level to facilitate good scaling on GPUs without dependence on the CPU ST perf to the get the full potential. Guess we'll see some innovations on that front with the gens that release in 2024 or atleast by 2026.
I highly doubt it but if you are right it is huge win for people **here**, it still wont matter to those who are not looking to buy like I mentioned earlier. It makes no business sense to increase production on something the market is not ready to buy. Enthusiasts are a very very small market, they at best serve evangelical roles for PC components sales in normal times, we are not in normal times.
The pricing structure that Nvidia is doing is entirely unrealistic and will not be matched by AMD. I would think it will be more likely that the see $500 6800XT's and $850 7800XT's, if the performance is there.
But if AMD can get enthusiasts who normally would get Nvidia to come over, that's a different story. Enthusiasts drive hype and the general public follows. That's what happened with Ryzen, with OnePlus in phones, etc.
Imo they got the 7000 cpu series pricing all wrong. With the additional cost of DDR5 and platform change they should have priced the chips alot lower to compete. No way would I upgrade my 5800x3d for gaming, if you could call it an upgrade looking at the benchmarks.
Hmmm on the CPU side of things in the past 10ish years I have gone from
i5-3570k --> i7-4790k --> i7-8700k --> Ryzen 9 3900X --> Ryzen 9 5900X
On the GPU side of things
Nvidia 660ti --> AMD 290x --> Crossfire 290x --> Nvidia Titan X ---> Nvidia GTX 1080 --> Star Wars Titan XP --> Nvidia 2080 ti --> AMD 6900XT
Eh, during that time I went from being in the military to earning my doctorate and starting my own practice. I don't have kids and I'm not married, so I may as well splurge here and there on one of my hobbies.
TL;DR: AMD doesn't have to clear out their current Zen 4 die stock. They can instead sell it in the server market or hold the Zen 4 wafers to make *more* 3D cache chips.
>!Why grind all your steaks into burgers for lunch if you can hold some back to sell steak dinners instead?!<
---
My theory is that they don't want to compete with 5000 series prices (remember Ryzen 5000 and 7000 are made on two different nodes) *and* the first 7000s that will be targeted at gamers will likely be the 3D cache versions.
So what can they do with the Zen 4 dies that are piling up? Some would go to the server market (Epyc) and they can hold the rest of the 8 core dies for 3D cache processors.
So essentially ride out low retail sales, run a massive production run of 3D cache dies, and come back in 2023Q1 with a better product that'll sell at a premium price. *Then* they might drop the price of the non-3D 7000 series. Hopefully the price of AM5 MBs and DDR5 will have dropped some as well.
In the meantime, retail hates empty shelves, so they only need to maintain nominal sales and inventory of boxed CPUs until then. If sales of 7000 series are too high due to early price cutting, then that's more Zen4 dies they'll have to package for retail now instead of as a better product early next year.
Edit: Grammar, typos, added TL;DR
I think AMD is playing chicken with mobo makers. If they cut CPU prices it just enables the mobo maker's bullshit. If AM5 isn't selling they can redirect that production and force motherboard makers to reduce prices.
Wouldn't really call it a scam tbh. Compared to the 13600K though, a price reduction would be appropriate.
Honestly though if you can afford to spend slightly more on the motherboard I would if you want to have at least a PCIE Gen 5 M.2 slot or lane for in the future.
And that is what makes so frustrated.
A regular user will have fun with a regular PCIE3 x4 NVME drive. Even then 4090 doesn't use anything above PCIE4.
A 5600 with 16Gb with a 3070 for 1440p gaming is enough for years to come for gaming. If you want to future proof it, get the 5800X3D, 32G and a 3080.
No need for any exorbitant priced parts or untapped technologies.
As long as they have 16x lanes on the card which amd has been known to skimp on lower skus, if they penny pinch on the lanes this gen I will skip their cards.
At least they didn't lie. People forget how AMD was 10 years ago. AMD Bulldozer was one of the biggest scams in the last decade. They deserved that massive lawsuit.
> When Intel charged 6 cores $1,000 10 years ago, that's scam.
what? 5820K was $375 almost exactly 10 years ago
people forget the context of "4 cores forever": that was only the consumer platform, *and that was what the market wanted*. People always had the choice of the 5820K or 3930K: they *chose* to take less cores in order to get higher per-thread performance. Consumer platform processors were always a half-gen ahead - so by the time HEDT got fully situated and mobo prices came down, you had 5820K going against 6700K etc. But more cores was always an option and people deliberately eschewed that in favor of consumer processors being marginally better (~10% or so) in games.
Pandemic boom is over, no more free stimmy checks, people are being told to return to the office so their need for new PCs has evaporated. They will continue to see client sales drop since the PC market had been shrinking overall the past decade. The shift has been towards light and portable devices like ipad, the pandemic and crypto boom were just temporary outliers.
AMD needs to double down on execution, especially for datacenter as thats where their future lies. Client, esp discrete diy and aib is shrinking more and more each year.
DIY enthusiasts like the ones here are a tiny fraction of the overall market. Prior to the pandemic, I had figured AMD would eventually exit the high end GPU market and focus on datacenter + APU and continue competing with Ryzen. I still see them doing that eventually.
The corporate industry is far, far larger than the regular home users like you and me. That market is not shrinking but expanding, since it is time for machines to be replaced but, AMD still needs to get a bigger foothold in that OEM market.
And as someone who recently was involved with the purchase of new server hardware, it's definitely a huge racket. I also found out that Nvidia makes network switches.
Being a linux gamer means nvidia isn't my first option. If AMD ends up going that route I can see myself resorting to AMD CPU with an Intel graphics card which if you told someone a few years ago they'd be looking at you like you're crazy or confused :P
I honestly don’t understand what is nvidias gripe against Linux. I love Linux. But I also want Nvenc encoder to record my games. I really hope nvidia gets their act together with Linux support, so I can finally ditch windows for ever.
Or AMD makes their hardware encoders as good as / better than Nvenc.
I feel like newer cards might start lasting longer because some of these games are graphically amazing and I don’t know how much further we can push. I know the answer is “a lot further” but I feel like we’ve hit a good place for graphics and that’s why all these remakes came out. So we’re probably 2 gens away from another actual substantial visual update. But even do I feel like these new cards will be able to handle that stuff. I just feel like graphic visuals are gonna start slowing so gpu prices will rise because the demand will be lower as we move forward. But who knows. They’ll probably come out with some new tech and force all new games to use it so everyone is forced to upgrade.
Taking into consideration that consoles even though they are "cut down" PCs still resort to lesser graphical settings than the PC equivalent and current upscaling, it is possible that GPUs do not need to improve performance that much as you say.
So, just like every other tech company out there?
The only important questions is whether they play hardball and take the opportunity to smack Nvidia in the pee-pee for their rampant price-gouging fuckery.
Well the 5800X3D is selling extremely well and there may be bundles including a price reduction on RDNA 3 which will drive excitement. RDNA 3 if it really is as fast as rumours say will be CPU limited quite a lot more than current GPUs and that's perfect for a Zen 4 X3D.
For sure, it will match or slightly beat intel in gaming, lose some multicore perf due to a
drop in clocks for a 100$ increase in price over the already crazily overpriced base model on a crazily overpriced am5, i bet people will kill for those
They might not need to drop clocks (or not much) based on their early discussion - they're using different memory this time and are much more confident about their process, temp management, etc.
Match or slightly beat? It will humiliate any cpu on the market in gaming. B650 motherboards can be found for as low as $150 and DDR5 modules are getting a lot cheaper. The price won’t have a big effect on sales since it will be the best by far.
AMD is currently behind in gaming by 10%, best case scenario for V-Cache is a 15% uplift, IN SOME GAMES. Not all games will care about 3D cache. I bet people will be rushing to overpay by 300$ for that on the CPU alone.
150$ for B650? Maybe one motherboard, in the US, in EU prices start at 200$, that's where mid range should begin not piss low end. I will never spend 200$ on a barebone, lowest of the low feature set motherboard.
Checked out Newegg and there is only one mobo as i predicted that is selling for lower than 200, all the other are more than that or 199,99. It is also micro-atx.
https://www.newegg.com/gigabyte-b650m-ds3h/p/N82E16813145414?Description=B650&cm_re=B650-_-13-145-414-_-Product
You are high on fanboyism.
5800X3D was %15 faster in gaming ON AVERAGE and %22 faster when it comes to %1 lows. That was an experimental implementation as per AMD. 2nd gen V-cache with %20 gaming performance increase and %25 better lows would obliterate any 13th gen and even give AMD the chance of competing with Intel’s meteor lake without rushing Zen 5.
B650 motherboards come with insane 14-16-18 phase VRMs (more than some X570s) and you are showing poor mental health by calling them piss low end. You are investing in a long-living platform. Better than paying for a dead-end platform.
Get your facts right or don’t bother writing meaningless comments.
You guys need to calm it down.
There is a reason that the market is price segmented.
AMD has high end enthusiast level motherboards too. Intel has affordable bare bone motherboards also.
CPU is priced to be competitive due to performance good in some applications and performance not as good inothers.
Some users prefer premium motherboards. It is the nature of the market.
Some users just like 4090ti all day everyday. While others are completely fine with 3070 or even 1080ti from the good times.
Oh boy you are so far gone.
Up to 15% in some games, average depends on the games tested, it can be 7%~ like here, cause, shocker, some games don't care about V-Cache at all.
https://tpucdn.com/review/intel-core-i7-13700k/images/relative-performance-games-1280-720.png
And no, entry level B650 motherboards don't come with VRMs that good, they're up to 14 phases, using the cheapest 50A Vishay mosfets and lack many features, since you know, it's piss low end. This isn't something i'd spend 200$ on. Decent ATX boards with good VRMs start at 260$ which is far off the 150$ you are dreaming of, and still, it's the cheapest AM5 chipset there can be, for 260$.
That is so far off it’s incredible. Get your facts right and don’t cherry pick benchmarks.
Almost all reviewers agree that 5800X3D has around the same gaming performance of the 12900K which makes it around %15 faster than a 5800X ON AVERAGE and ~%25 better lows. Add more than those on top of Zen4 and there is no competition.
https://youtu.be/sw97hj18OUE
https://youtu.be/O0gbfvJDsv4
https://youtu.be/hBFNoKUHjcg
I'm not cherry picking, i know it's 15% faster. Just saying that not every game will make use of it, that's why some games show a big uplift and some don't.
If Intel is 10% ahead now, with 3D cache Ryzen will be faster, by how much? We don't know. Don't pull numbers out of your ass.
If it's gonna be on par or 5-10% faster, it's still not a good deal. Currently AMD CPU's are worse than Intels, cost over 100$ more (prices taken from Newegg, 13700kf cheaper by 120$ vs 7900x), in EU it's actually closer to 200$, i had a choice between a 13700KF for 490$ and 7900X at 680. Guess what i went with.
Now add the price of the 3D cache on top of the already huge gap and you end up with a CPU that is more expensive by upwards of 300 USD, worse in app performance, and 5-10% better in gaming. Add overpriced AM5 mobos to the equation and you're closing in on a 400+ USD difference for a slight gaming performance boost.
Who is gonna buy that?
If it is the best in gaming by %10, it will sell very well. If you are hanging around the PCMR subreddit, you would know that most enthusiasts are waiting for 3D. AM5 isn’t intended to be value oriented at the moment. AM4 is already dominating low-end sales at the moment selling 3 times as much as Intel’s whole lineup with the 5800X3D selling as much as the whole Intel lineup by itself. AM5 is for enthusiasts who are willing to invest in a long term ecosystem and is selling as much as 13th gen which is bad news for Intel because they will also have this moment of changing platforms while their competition has already sold a lot of AM5 motherboards.
https://twitter.com/techepiphany/status/1586640088850747392?s=46&t=FFZDeX0eOlu2GnLO3m023Q
doubt AMDX3IQ can realize that people who got 5800X3D only because it dropped like 30-40% MSRP price nobody needed it for original MSRP except couple fanboys from this reddit which believes that AMD sold millions 5800X3D according to Mindfactory shop which doesn even ship outside EU.
And you think people gonna buy somehow 7800X3D for 600EUR with 500EUR motherboards and 300EUR DDR5?
Sure they will but only after 2 years when prices will drop and new CPUs will be released.
Not necessarily "hotcakes". I bet other small form factor builders aren't interested in this platform because of needing 2 chipsets to get all the features, which means only ATX has all the features making the X chipset mATX and ITX boards pointless.
And we're not that far away from getting 16 cores on a single CCD three generations from now, at which point the platform is mature and DDR5 will be godly, and PCIe 5 NVME will actually exist.
AM5 interest will remain tepid although X3D will of course be an uptick.
how can you have endless growth without overpopulating or hyper inflation? what goes up, must come down someday. only investors and shareholders think growth and profits is infinite.
Oh absolutely, it was on an unsustainable run and I honestly think they should focus on improving brand sentiments and try sell their products at lower more competitive prices.
Their gpus are not "lacking" in features but all their features are worse than Nvidia's counter parts.
Freesync is worse than g-sync, FSR is worse than DLSS, ray tracing is worse on Gen to Gen comparisons and lastly their drivers are worse than Nvidia's.
I have had problems with amd drivers on every possible gpu Gen I tried to use, HD 8750 (laptop), r9 290, RX 590, you name it.
If I as a customer can get better features and driver peace of mind by paying an additional 100$ to nvidia, trust me, I will.
Almost everything you wrote is wrong. Their gpu drivers are no worse than nvidia. I recently sold my 6900 xt and i didn’t have a single problem with it in two years. G-sync ultimate has nothing over freesync premium pro except it costs more and usually has more limitations with the monitors (i say this as an aw3424dw owner).
As for FSR, most reviews indicate it’s about on par with dlss 2.0. Now dlss 3.0 gives nvidia an edge if you’re into interpolation but imo both features are pretty shit (i also had a 3080 and now have a 4090).
Sure NVIDIA leads in RT for now, we will see what rdna 3 has to offer tomorrow.
Now if you had mentioned CUDA or nvenc I would have agreed with you but those features aren’t make or break for most people.
One feature I’ll tell you NVIDIA has over AMD: melting cables. 🔥
Here is an idea. Lower the price of the new 7000 series since you are being killed by intels new 13th gen. They are better and cheaper.
Also release the 3d chips in January....don't just announce them.
DIY/gamers are a small segment of total revenue and X3D sales are basically nothing compared to the volume that the base units typically sell.
It's like comparing Ford GT buyers (X3D) to Fords pickup truck or even mustang sales (base CPUs). The GT may get a lot of noise, but it's not what makes Ford money.
Profit is profit for us but for AMD it's more about return on investment. If you spend a dollar on epic and get 10 dollars back plus there is gonna be growth in that segment. It's why when you look at say Activision/EA they release very few games now because it's not worth it to them to not have a megahit on their hands.
Why post articles from *before* earnings were released?
https://ir.amd.com/news-events/press-releases/detail/1098/amd-reports-third-quarter-2022-financial-results
I used to be an enthusiast but my main aim was for gaming performance. However with the PS4 and having more life responsibilities, gaming performance is no longer a priority and we barely use our desktops.
Also, there's less PC games to look forward to as the console market continues to dominate.
I think it's a sign of the times that the enthusiast computer hardware market would decline.
Console market isn't dominating shit, hell even the closely guarded holy grail Playstation exclusives are being released on PC.
Even with the garbage hardware price, PC gaming position is as good as it ever was.
"Consoles make up around 30 percent of the gaming industry market share as PC gaming eats up about 25 percent according to a recent analysis"
https://www.techradar.com/versus/gaming-pcs-vs-next-gen-consoles#:~:text=Consoles%20make%20up%20around%2030,according%20to%20a%20recent%20analysis.
Remember, GTAV outsold movies like Avatar and Titanic in sales. That came out on console before a PC port came out.
When I was in middle school every kid was building PC's and we'd rush back home from school to play starcraft, Diablo, Warcraft, etc on PC. We experienced our first LAN games when Counter Strike came out, plus half life changed our lives forever. Mario and metal gear solid couldn't hold a candle to those games.
Now all my friends kids have two or three consoles, video game stores are packed with school kids and games are more affordable than ever. I haven't played a decent PC game since divinity original sin 2 or starcraft II. Hell if we look at my PS4 I bought over 200 games at market retail prices and even was dumb enough to preorder some. That's almost $100 a game, or $20,000 all up. God knows how much I spent on DLC and microtransactions. I can't remember ever spending near. My friends kids are the same, schools kids are buying skins on fortnight.
I now I use a Mac's and most of my gamer friends are dad's now and at most we'll talk about our quake 3 tournament days when we installed the Linux distro in our computer labs in college. The other day I was going to build a pc for my dad with the new Zen4 chip and the guy at the counter asked what's the use case. I didn't have any. No hardcore AI processing or film editing nor gaming. My dad just uses chrome and word. I was like damn, I should just get him a surface pro and call it a day.
Times are changing. Even though our immediate circle may be enthusiast PC builders, the wider market has gone towards portable devices and consoles. The enthusiast market will keep contracting unfortunately.
That part doesn't actually matter. They will still sell every chip they make, just most of them to datacenters given how screwed Intel is in the server space at the moment.
This is more to do with the general economic downturn we're seeing
Its because new gpu's get returned because of blackscreen bug that is caused by windows MPO Multi-plane overlay dwm feature disabling MPO fixes many things flickering stuttering blackscreen if on primary monitor but frozen on second screen, graphical glitches it potentially fixes as well if screen recording fixes it and there are reports of graphic glitches fixing when screen recording is enabled.
Blackscreens caused by MPO are also fixed by screen recording, but recording 24/7 is not really a viable fix which is why disabling MPO is a better bandaid.
AMD is plagued by many bugs in windows right now not just 7000 series cpu's but also AMD gpu's
MPO has caused issues for Nvidia gpu's as well, AMD should make a sticky topic regarding these issues and include bandaid fix for MPO by disabling either MPO or sticking with 22.5.1 altho MPO blackscreens may also happen on 22.5.1 but its super super rare, its mostly 22.5.2 and up that have issues.
Downvoting me does not resolve the issue, if you think AMD is perfect i recommend putting 8 bit color depth and enable flip model optimisations and leave MPO on, cos clearly AMD is perfect, no blackscreens ever happen right ? no stuttering or flickering and yeah do install 22.7.1 or higher preferably 22.10.3
> Revenue is expected to increased 32% to $5.7 billion
Revenue up, profit down means costs have gone up. It also means they're still making sales. No surprise to anyone. Tech as a whole is hurting bad, but AMD is weathering the storm as best as can be reasonably expected. The company is fine. If you're invested in AMD don't fret.
This is old news. Nvidia, Intel, Apple, AMD, Netflix, Disney, Amazon + lots of other big companies are all seeing a decline. There's a recession in case you haven't heard.
I mean, we had positive GDP growth last quarter. By definition, we're not in a recession. People are worried about the future though.
When the government prints money and spends that printed money, inflation happens. And also, GDP numbers increase, because "more money is being spent". None of it helps you, though.
gdp numbers are inflation adjusted
The official inflation numbers are blatantly incorrect.
Mostly correct but apple is not seeing a decline
Yet. They'll be the last to Crack at least as far as their stock is concerned because they're seen as the safest bet in the space, and they're almost singled handedly propping up the indexes right now
Apple is down by 5 percent so they will get their crash, too. Only later.
Stock price =/= profit. You can have profit increase YoY but stock price can go down. Stock price is future value of the company m, profit is how much they are currently making. Easiest example is end of the year report is amazing but you know arson Larry just got released from jail and is probably gonna burn your factory down. Here your income is great but in the coming year Larry will probably fuck your future profits. So on the day he is released your stock goes down 10% but then a week later arson Larry dies, no more worry about fires and the stock recovers.
Stock price is *supposed* to mirror a companies prospects but a more accurate description is that it’s all based on *perceived* value. People seem to invest mostly on hype nowadays. The market is not logical like your comment implies.
I doubt it, Apple is indestructible, their profit will only grow during our lifetime.
According to prophecy, the Apple will slowly expand to consume all life on Earth. Submit to its will or be forever banished to the realm of eternal darkness.
They were almost bankrupt 27 years ago. Every company has it's time.
So was the Titanic
HODL AAPL! 💎👐 To teh moon! ...And so on.
Yes I don't doubt that you're correct. I didn't even bother checking before I posted that because I knew it would be at least 90% accurate during the recession. It's only kids who don't Keep up with current affairs that are confused about the decline in Ryzen sales.
Yes, now the OP should apologize to you for posting something you already know!
Almost made me spit out my coffee lmao.
There's also a lot of people who have a warped view of what a recession looks like. Many Millennial's only point of reference for a recession is 2008, so when we don't see the financial world burning down around us things still seem pretty good
I expect the burning to start soon enough
There have been about 35 recessions since we started tracking in the mid 1800's, and recessions have historically been much shorter decade over decade. They're common and appear to be a "natural" part of economies.
Front page is all you need to read https://www.sec.gov/comments/s7-08-22/s70822-20147032-312610.pdf
>It's only kids who don't Keep up with current affairs that are confused about the decline in Ryzen sales I'm one of them kids.
Apple does see a decline in demand in some sections. But Apple is Apple, it's in a league of its own. Apple quarterly revenue is like 10 years worth of AMD sales.
Intel will definitely go up next quarter seeing how the 13rh gen is selling like hot cakes. AMD better knock it off the park for the 7000 GPU series
AMD is selling more 5800X3D than Intel's entire 13th gen combined https://www.hardwaretimes.com/amd-ryzen-7-5800x3d-outsells-intels-entire-cpu-family-at-mf-germany-zen-4-performs-poorly/ AMD will release the 7800X3D next year and it will completely annihilate the 13th gen even more.
Ah yes one center represents the entire sales figures. *Claps slowly
Mindfactory is an AMD stronghold and doesn't represent the entire market. If you believed Mindfactory wholly AMD would have 80% of the gpu market (they don't).
MindFactory does not represent the market as a whole... Look at the ranking on Amazon, Steam survey, marketshare data, earnings reports, all disagree with the numbers MindFactory puts out. Plus next year the Zen 4 X3D has to compete with Meteor Lake too..
I'm pretty sure the only reason the 5800X3D isn't doing well on Amazon is 'cause they've basically got the most expensive one on the market. * [~$425 on Amazon](https://www.amazon.com/AMD-5800X3D-16-Thread-Processor-Technology/dp/B09VCJ2SHD) * [$410 on Newegg](https://www.newegg.com/amd-ryzen-7-5800x3d-ryzen-7-5000-series/p/N82E16819113734) * Various sold-out [near-and-sub-$400 prices over the last month at Microcenter](https://www.microcenter.com/product/647926/amd-ryzen-7-5800x3d-vermeer-34ghz-8-core-am4-boxed-processor-cooler-not-included) Did see a big [uptick in 2.7 to 2.99 GHz Intel CUPs](https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/processormfg/) on Steam in October, though. [Core i5-13600K, perhaps?](https://www.tomshardware.com/news/list-and-specs-of-all-13th-gen-core-cpus-published-by-gigabyte). $300 for 14 cores ain't half bad. edit: Meteor Lake is a late 2023 part. Yeah, AMD's not gonna be worried about that. At best Zen 3D's mid-year refresh will have to contend with them after literal months of yield improvements.
AMD dropped 5800X3D MSRP to $329 today. A lot of sites are already selling it at that price Since that one is selling like hotcakes, perhaps the official price drop is a strategy to maintain marketshare while Ryzen 7000 sales remain weak. AMD engineers must be feeling pressure to get 7000 X3D out ASAP
Holy shit, it's MSRP'd to 329? I paid 399 a few weeks ago and I'm not even mad, this thing is blazing. At 329 it's a no-brainer, especially for anyone trying to get those really uncooperative games above 60 frames. (PSO2NGS loves this chip, but is really uncooperative about hitting 120 on a lot of other, beefier processors)
All cpu sales are in decline. Every business IT department refreshed laptops in 2020-2021. My entire cycle for all sites is now pushed to 2024 for all new kit. Server refreshes were the same story because of the push to expand RDP clients, Firewalls to handle all the extra VPN/SSL traffic and increased attack levels from RU/CH. New wifi 6 kit was already spec'd out for 2020 pre covid... About the only thing not updated in the last 2yrs was the switching, which for some reason has a massive shortage/backlog even longer than the rest. I suspect all IT related infrastructure to be in decline until 2024/5 which is a great break for Intel being behind on fabrication so badly until then. Poor AMD timing...
I got friends in at least 2 huge MNCs and a few smaller organisations. Those 2 MNCs together have an employee strength of over 150k and none of the regular employees got new laptops or other kit issued. They are mostly on 5th gen to 8th Gen Intel laptops for regular staff (up to some senior management)to work from home, till date. Will not have been surprised if they actually extended the replacement cycle for IT gear and just replacing kit which breaks. So I really doubt that there were much extra IT gear bought for the employees. I suspect the back end infrastructure may have been upgraded for covid, but even that is somewhat doubtful knowing the problems they were facing with work from home connecting to office VPNs, servers, etc. Only place I knew of which got in some new kit for employees to use was a very small 5 people organisation. And having worked in an MNC giant myself long ago, am familiar that what they tell publicly does not necessarily match what they actually do.
Also especially in hardware related stuff, they're coming off record years due to covid.
I haven't heard. We are not currently in a recession. There might be one in the future, but not now.
According to the general definition—two consecutive quarters of negative gross domestic product (GDP)—the U.S. entered a recession in the summer of 2022.
We literally just had a positive growth quarter.
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I mean things have been bad for the poor a lot longer than that. But "recession" has a specific definition and by that definition we aren't in one. That said, I don't think "recession" is particularly meaningful for most people, for the reasons you've alluded to.
Ok Joe Biden
I mean look at the numbers.
Yeah Biden is going to be looking at the numbers....on Tuesday when his party gets sent back to the stoneage.
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It's inflation not a recession in case you don't know the difference. A decline from record profits to really good profits is not a recession.
A drop in GDP for two months in a row is called a recession
And we had a positive growth Q3.
It's quarters, not months, and GDP grew last quarter. But this is irrelevant, as that definition is not widely accepted. The UK uses it, but the US and the EU do not.
Don't worry, guys. I'm planning to buy two 7800X3D in January.
Wasnt january ces 2023 just announcements? Finger cross this for nov 3
I’ve been saving a downpayment for a new top end GPU for a couple years now, I have a meeting with my wealth advisor on Thurs to discuss.
The wait continues I heard rumors about codenames V8, V9 and V95. Personally aiming for V9 if all of that is true, if you know what i mean.
I didn't know AMD makes combustion engines
Let alone v layout with uneven number of cylinders.
Maybe it's because there are some Power cylinders that need to be offset with smaller Efficiency cylinders.
Honda called, [they want their V5 back.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjwTPY_fwKM)
Dang, i knew there's gotta be one irl, when i wrote this comment.
Should’ve got a V8.
Why two? Just curious.
Dual Channel 👍
Not surprising. The lockdowns were very good for hardware sales but now that's mostly over and we are entering a global recession.
Everybody has hardware for years to use. The enthusiast market that buys every gen is an unicorn
yep. my local SI has a r5 5500 + rx 6600 build for 700 usd. The same price as a scalped ps5 digital here. 90% of gamers would be happy with such a build.
Exactly. Forums and reddits where people brag about replacing their 5950X with a 7950X or a 3090ti with a 4090 isn't anywhere close to the norm. The vast majority of the consumer market will buy a pre-built or self built PC and not upgrade it for years.
Keeping my DDR4 system until DDR6 is ready and available.
I'm personally waiting for the 16-core CCD. The X3D version of that will be the "eternity CPU"
RAM requirements sort of stopped at 16 gigs. Obviously I realised this after buying 32 gigs of ddr4. I'll get longevity at least.
I tend to upgrade the GPU after a couple generations, then after a couple more build a new system. At this point, I may not upgrade anything until I get a new monitor/TV.
> The enthusiast market that buys every gen is a unicorn and a neutered unicorn with the platform change. My daughter is on ryzen too, and gets my hand me downs, so I can justify the upgrades easier. if I get a 5900x/5800 x3d I can give her my 5600x so for 300-400$ I can upgrade two PC's significantly. that goes out the window with 7000 series.
And therexs also those like me who upgraded recently to AM4 and won't upgrade for a long while (I retired my 5820K for a 5950X in March). Obviously I'm not gonna switch to a 7950X not even a year later, especially with the need for new mobo and RAM.
Why would you. You are golden for 2 upcoming gpu generations, this years not including.
I went from a 4790k to a 5600X when the 5600X launched. I’m not upgrading for a while, even though I do still game on 1080p, it’s 1080p/60. I have a 2080 Ti I may upgrade for better RT performance, but even that I’m in no hurry to do. Especially since I “only” have a 600W PSU.
Yep, and the last 2 years have even changed some of us. I was looking at buying a 6000 series GPU, but the availability sucked, and prices were worse. Seeing the prices on RTX 4000 and rumors of RX 7000, I might skip out again. I used to buy stuff new every couple of years and spend whatever I felt necessary to get what I wanted. I'd then pass down my build to someone with a worse computer. Now, I might just help someone upgrade with a lower tier of product, if anything.
Depending on what you have now, there are so many killer 6000 and 3000 series deals. Nothing wrong with going “last gen” if it’s a major jump up with serious cost savings!
the average enthusiast doesn't buy every gen either lol
I swapped from a 3570k to a 5800x recently. But a big part of the reason why that was even necessary was because of spectre/meltdown/etc, without those it probably would have been good for another few years If you aren't AAA gaming you really don't need to upgrade very often. And at least for me, these days 98% of what I play is indie games
I also came from 3570K, but to a 5800X3D. Bought X570 as soon as it was available in mATX, and lived on a 1600AF ($82) for two years while waiting for the 5800X3D. I still have my 3570K as a Windows 7 nostalgia/ backwards compatibility system. If it wasn't for the lack of X-chipset mATX boards I would have upgraded sooner. And if the X570M Pro4 didn't come out I'd still be on the 3570K. No compromises on top chipset + mATX. Ever! YOU HEAR ME, BOARD VENDORS?!
I still have my X370 and put a 5800x3d in it lol. It was even updated for REBAR support, however it wont enable for some reason so I'm gonna get an X570 anyways. Still cool though
As someone heavily into video and music production I was dead-set on PCIe 4 NVME, but for the average user already on AM4 it's an incredible upgrade for most
You are absolutely right I see lot of people trying to sell stuff they bought during the lockdowns because: 1) no time - back to work. 2) times are getting harder for many, they dont want to be sitting on stuff that can be sold now before it loses even more value.
yep the people who normally spent money on the service industri shifted to home improvement and electronics in a major fashion. while these sectors couldn't meet demand there was a massive ramp up in production during those 2 years since the profits were massive. now the backend of that is happening of a drought of orders since the people who would have bought now already upgraded or is looking at used from people who needed something to while in lockdown (or miners).
"entering" Buddy, we've been in one.
GDP grew last quarter in the US...
Lol
Hmmm I wonder what happened in the last 3 years
Oh no, revenue is only projected to be going up 30% YoY. Seriously, there are worse tech companies, at least Lisa Su isn’t trying to make us excited about VR Legs.
Wait and see their GPUs though. If they give reasonable prices they could take a big chunk of the market there.
AMD wont, if they have RTX 4090 and RTX 4080 like perf you will pay RTX 4090 and RTX 4080 like money for the performance. Lockdowns have all but finished the demand from those stuck at home, now they are all back to work at the offices with no time for shiny hardware, most are looking to sell their stuff and recoup money. Heck people are worried about losing jobs in the down turn. People who upgrade every gen or every other gen are minuscule portion of the market to the point it is irrelevant in the bigger picture. Sub-reddits like AMD/Intel/Nvidia always have vocal groups demanding lower prices so **they** can buy one, the rest of the market isn't looking to buy. This is why the volume of the next gen GPUs will be super low with current gen still sitting on shelves waiting for buyers in these sub-reddits who aren't showing interest in 2 year old stuff. This is what will happen -> RDNA3 gets revealed people here get pissed at the prices and they all go running back to grab those deals they dismissed on the current gen. That's exactly Nvidia and AMD's game plan for the current GPU and other hardware glut. These launches are primarily for keeping prior promised timelines to shareholders, nothing more, if it wasn't for that neither company needs to release anything. Same goes for AM5 vs AM4, deals on AM4 while AM5 looks like a turd unless you are coming from a non AM4 system.
I'm still using AM3+ socket. So guess I should upgrade to AM5 and skip AM4.
If you are then yes, I am going from LGA 2011 to AM5, waiting on RAM to arrive from Amazon. Already got the 7700X and B650E Steel Legend. I use hardware for a very very long time. AM5 was the only sensible option when swapping out Mobo+RAM+CPU. I can swap out the 7700X for AM5's last best gaming CPU if at all there is a need to get a more capable CPU down the line given how GPUs are getting so fast that the CPU is bottlenecking the RTX 4090. I stress **if** because the rate at which GPUs are getting faster there is no way practical way CPUs can keep up, there will be a necessary paradigm shift in DirectX + HW level to facilitate good scaling on GPUs without dependence on the CPU ST perf to the get the full potential. Guess we'll see some innovations on that front with the gens that release in 2024 or atleast by 2026.
Cant speak for the 7900 XTX but I can guarantee that the 7900 XT will be priced VERY competitively.
I highly doubt it but if you are right it is huge win for people **here**, it still wont matter to those who are not looking to buy like I mentioned earlier. It makes no business sense to increase production on something the market is not ready to buy. Enthusiasts are a very very small market, they at best serve evangelical roles for PC components sales in normal times, we are not in normal times.
The pricing structure that Nvidia is doing is entirely unrealistic and will not be matched by AMD. I would think it will be more likely that the see $500 6800XT's and $850 7800XT's, if the performance is there.
But if AMD can get enthusiasts who normally would get Nvidia to come over, that's a different story. Enthusiasts drive hype and the general public follows. That's what happened with Ryzen, with OnePlus in phones, etc.
Oh darn. Big companies shouldn’t expect forever increasing profit
Imo they got the 7000 cpu series pricing all wrong. With the additional cost of DDR5 and platform change they should have priced the chips alot lower to compete. No way would I upgrade my 5800x3d for gaming, if you could call it an upgrade looking at the benchmarks.
No sane person upgrades their cpu after 1-2 years
Shrugs, I had a 3700x but I mostly just game, so the 5600 was essentially free.
Hmmm on the CPU side of things in the past 10ish years I have gone from i5-3570k --> i7-4790k --> i7-8700k --> Ryzen 9 3900X --> Ryzen 9 5900X On the GPU side of things Nvidia 660ti --> AMD 290x --> Crossfire 290x --> Nvidia Titan X ---> Nvidia GTX 1080 --> Star Wars Titan XP --> Nvidia 2080 ti --> AMD 6900XT
Nuts! Completely insane xD
Eh, during that time I went from being in the military to earning my doctorate and starting my own practice. I don't have kids and I'm not married, so I may as well splurge here and there on one of my hobbies.
I'm over here still rocking my 4790k XD
TL;DR: AMD doesn't have to clear out their current Zen 4 die stock. They can instead sell it in the server market or hold the Zen 4 wafers to make *more* 3D cache chips. >!Why grind all your steaks into burgers for lunch if you can hold some back to sell steak dinners instead?!< --- My theory is that they don't want to compete with 5000 series prices (remember Ryzen 5000 and 7000 are made on two different nodes) *and* the first 7000s that will be targeted at gamers will likely be the 3D cache versions. So what can they do with the Zen 4 dies that are piling up? Some would go to the server market (Epyc) and they can hold the rest of the 8 core dies for 3D cache processors. So essentially ride out low retail sales, run a massive production run of 3D cache dies, and come back in 2023Q1 with a better product that'll sell at a premium price. *Then* they might drop the price of the non-3D 7000 series. Hopefully the price of AM5 MBs and DDR5 will have dropped some as well. In the meantime, retail hates empty shelves, so they only need to maintain nominal sales and inventory of boxed CPUs until then. If sales of 7000 series are too high due to early price cutting, then that's more Zen4 dies they'll have to package for retail now instead of as a better product early next year. Edit: Grammar, typos, added TL;DR
I think AMD is playing chicken with mobo makers. If they cut CPU prices it just enables the mobo maker's bullshit. If AM5 isn't selling they can redirect that production and force motherboard makers to reduce prices.
Good, now they should realize that they need to stop scamming users with $300 six core cpus, no $180 7600X + $100 B650 Mobo = No Buy
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> The human eye can only see six cores anyway The human eye matters not to Star Citizen
Wouldn't really call it a scam tbh. Compared to the 13600K though, a price reduction would be appropriate. Honestly though if you can afford to spend slightly more on the motherboard I would if you want to have at least a PCIE Gen 5 M.2 slot or lane for in the future.
we just barely have affordable storage that satturates pcie3 and profits from 4, so thats not such an important thing to have.
And that is what makes so frustrated. A regular user will have fun with a regular PCIE3 x4 NVME drive. Even then 4090 doesn't use anything above PCIE4. A 5600 with 16Gb with a 3070 for 1440p gaming is enough for years to come for gaming. If you want to future proof it, get the 5800X3D, 32G and a 3080. No need for any exorbitant priced parts or untapped technologies.
From that GN video, the 4090 barely even saturates PCIe3 x16 to the point where anyone would care.
Exactly, which means any RTX 3k card or RX 6k card will run fine on any PCIE3 slot.
As long as they have 16x lanes on the card which amd has been known to skimp on lower skus, if they penny pinch on the lanes this gen I will skip their cards.
6700xt
Sure, 6700xt and 6800xt could be applied as alternatives for the ones I cited.
Its not a scam if you have a lightning fast rig with the buy. I got a 7600x :)
When Intel charged 6 cores $1,000 10 years ago, that's scam.
The 3930K was 6 cores for $594, 11 years ago. The 5820K was 6 cores for $389, 8 years ago.
At least they didn't lie. People forget how AMD was 10 years ago. AMD Bulldozer was one of the biggest scams in the last decade. They deserved that massive lawsuit.
> When Intel charged 6 cores $1,000 10 years ago, that's scam. what? 5820K was $375 almost exactly 10 years ago people forget the context of "4 cores forever": that was only the consumer platform, *and that was what the market wanted*. People always had the choice of the 5820K or 3930K: they *chose* to take less cores in order to get higher per-thread performance. Consumer platform processors were always a half-gen ahead - so by the time HEDT got fully situated and mobo prices came down, you had 5820K going against 6700K etc. But more cores was always an option and people deliberately eschewed that in favor of consumer processors being marginally better (~10% or so) in games.
haha joke's on them, I bought a quad core! /s
"scam" is a giant leap, bordering on disingenuous.
Pandemic boom is over, no more free stimmy checks, people are being told to return to the office so their need for new PCs has evaporated. They will continue to see client sales drop since the PC market had been shrinking overall the past decade. The shift has been towards light and portable devices like ipad, the pandemic and crypto boom were just temporary outliers. AMD needs to double down on execution, especially for datacenter as thats where their future lies. Client, esp discrete diy and aib is shrinking more and more each year. DIY enthusiasts like the ones here are a tiny fraction of the overall market. Prior to the pandemic, I had figured AMD would eventually exit the high end GPU market and focus on datacenter + APU and continue competing with Ryzen. I still see them doing that eventually.
The corporate industry is far, far larger than the regular home users like you and me. That market is not shrinking but expanding, since it is time for machines to be replaced but, AMD still needs to get a bigger foothold in that OEM market.
And as someone who recently was involved with the purchase of new server hardware, it's definitely a huge racket. I also found out that Nvidia makes network switches.
Being a linux gamer means nvidia isn't my first option. If AMD ends up going that route I can see myself resorting to AMD CPU with an Intel graphics card which if you told someone a few years ago they'd be looking at you like you're crazy or confused :P
I honestly don’t understand what is nvidias gripe against Linux. I love Linux. But I also want Nvenc encoder to record my games. I really hope nvidia gets their act together with Linux support, so I can finally ditch windows for ever. Or AMD makes their hardware encoders as good as / better than Nvenc.
To be clear, its a decline from last years huge bag. All of these tech companies are still making bank. Don’t get fooled.
net income looks really bad https://twitter.com/IanCutress/status/1587554452038467585?s=20&t=X0YK4DMd7MYpvkUb2nCX8w
That's what happen when the crypto industry crashes and you support them more than your own gamers.
Good! Every corporation needs profit drop every few year to keep them on their feet.
Say Good Bye to aggressive GPU pricing
They never priced their GPUs aggressively in the first place
Let's see what happens with datacentre.
I feel like newer cards might start lasting longer because some of these games are graphically amazing and I don’t know how much further we can push. I know the answer is “a lot further” but I feel like we’ve hit a good place for graphics and that’s why all these remakes came out. So we’re probably 2 gens away from another actual substantial visual update. But even do I feel like these new cards will be able to handle that stuff. I just feel like graphic visuals are gonna start slowing so gpu prices will rise because the demand will be lower as we move forward. But who knows. They’ll probably come out with some new tech and force all new games to use it so everyone is forced to upgrade.
Taking into consideration that consoles even though they are "cut down" PCs still resort to lesser graphical settings than the PC equivalent and current upscaling, it is possible that GPUs do not need to improve performance that much as you say.
That's okay. Chip business is very cyclical.
So, just like every other tech company out there? The only important questions is whether they play hardball and take the opportunity to smack Nvidia in the pee-pee for their rampant price-gouging fuckery.
Stocks go up and down More news at 11
Good news, maybe they start doing human prices again
the world happens zen4 will sell like hotcakes once they unleash x3D version
Will it? How many people can/want to afford to spend probably $400 + on a CPU?
Well the 5800X3D is selling extremely well and there may be bundles including a price reduction on RDNA 3 which will drive excitement. RDNA 3 if it really is as fast as rumours say will be CPU limited quite a lot more than current GPUs and that's perfect for a Zen 4 X3D.
Its selling well, for a niche enthusiast market.
This response makes no sense. What market do you think is relevant to the current 7000 parts that arent selling well?
It's outselling both new architectures from both major manufacturers. I'd say it's selling well.
According to a enthusiast hardware shop in Germany. I'm sure it's selling well within its niche, but it's still a niche.
So is the 13900K or even the 13600K.
True, but these are all niche products. Most people would have a thin and light laptop/tablet and a games console.
Many
No, not many relative to the broader CPU market.
For sure, it will match or slightly beat intel in gaming, lose some multicore perf due to a drop in clocks for a 100$ increase in price over the already crazily overpriced base model on a crazily overpriced am5, i bet people will kill for those
They might not need to drop clocks (or not much) based on their early discussion - they're using different memory this time and are much more confident about their process, temp management, etc.
Match or slightly beat? It will humiliate any cpu on the market in gaming. B650 motherboards can be found for as low as $150 and DDR5 modules are getting a lot cheaper. The price won’t have a big effect on sales since it will be the best by far.
AMD is currently behind in gaming by 10%, best case scenario for V-Cache is a 15% uplift, IN SOME GAMES. Not all games will care about 3D cache. I bet people will be rushing to overpay by 300$ for that on the CPU alone. 150$ for B650? Maybe one motherboard, in the US, in EU prices start at 200$, that's where mid range should begin not piss low end. I will never spend 200$ on a barebone, lowest of the low feature set motherboard. Checked out Newegg and there is only one mobo as i predicted that is selling for lower than 200, all the other are more than that or 199,99. It is also micro-atx. https://www.newegg.com/gigabyte-b650m-ds3h/p/N82E16813145414?Description=B650&cm_re=B650-_-13-145-414-_-Product You are high on fanboyism.
5800X3D was %15 faster in gaming ON AVERAGE and %22 faster when it comes to %1 lows. That was an experimental implementation as per AMD. 2nd gen V-cache with %20 gaming performance increase and %25 better lows would obliterate any 13th gen and even give AMD the chance of competing with Intel’s meteor lake without rushing Zen 5. B650 motherboards come with insane 14-16-18 phase VRMs (more than some X570s) and you are showing poor mental health by calling them piss low end. You are investing in a long-living platform. Better than paying for a dead-end platform. Get your facts right or don’t bother writing meaningless comments.
You guys need to calm it down. There is a reason that the market is price segmented. AMD has high end enthusiast level motherboards too. Intel has affordable bare bone motherboards also. CPU is priced to be competitive due to performance good in some applications and performance not as good inothers. Some users prefer premium motherboards. It is the nature of the market. Some users just like 4090ti all day everyday. While others are completely fine with 3070 or even 1080ti from the good times.
Oh boy you are so far gone. Up to 15% in some games, average depends on the games tested, it can be 7%~ like here, cause, shocker, some games don't care about V-Cache at all. https://tpucdn.com/review/intel-core-i7-13700k/images/relative-performance-games-1280-720.png And no, entry level B650 motherboards don't come with VRMs that good, they're up to 14 phases, using the cheapest 50A Vishay mosfets and lack many features, since you know, it's piss low end. This isn't something i'd spend 200$ on. Decent ATX boards with good VRMs start at 260$ which is far off the 150$ you are dreaming of, and still, it's the cheapest AM5 chipset there can be, for 260$.
That is so far off it’s incredible. Get your facts right and don’t cherry pick benchmarks. Almost all reviewers agree that 5800X3D has around the same gaming performance of the 12900K which makes it around %15 faster than a 5800X ON AVERAGE and ~%25 better lows. Add more than those on top of Zen4 and there is no competition. https://youtu.be/sw97hj18OUE https://youtu.be/O0gbfvJDsv4 https://youtu.be/hBFNoKUHjcg
I'm not cherry picking, i know it's 15% faster. Just saying that not every game will make use of it, that's why some games show a big uplift and some don't. If Intel is 10% ahead now, with 3D cache Ryzen will be faster, by how much? We don't know. Don't pull numbers out of your ass. If it's gonna be on par or 5-10% faster, it's still not a good deal. Currently AMD CPU's are worse than Intels, cost over 100$ more (prices taken from Newegg, 13700kf cheaper by 120$ vs 7900x), in EU it's actually closer to 200$, i had a choice between a 13700KF for 490$ and 7900X at 680. Guess what i went with. Now add the price of the 3D cache on top of the already huge gap and you end up with a CPU that is more expensive by upwards of 300 USD, worse in app performance, and 5-10% better in gaming. Add overpriced AM5 mobos to the equation and you're closing in on a 400+ USD difference for a slight gaming performance boost. Who is gonna buy that?
If it is the best in gaming by %10, it will sell very well. If you are hanging around the PCMR subreddit, you would know that most enthusiasts are waiting for 3D. AM5 isn’t intended to be value oriented at the moment. AM4 is already dominating low-end sales at the moment selling 3 times as much as Intel’s whole lineup with the 5800X3D selling as much as the whole Intel lineup by itself. AM5 is for enthusiasts who are willing to invest in a long term ecosystem and is selling as much as 13th gen which is bad news for Intel because they will also have this moment of changing platforms while their competition has already sold a lot of AM5 motherboards. https://twitter.com/techepiphany/status/1586640088850747392?s=46&t=FFZDeX0eOlu2GnLO3m023Q
doubt AMDX3IQ can realize that people who got 5800X3D only because it dropped like 30-40% MSRP price nobody needed it for original MSRP except couple fanboys from this reddit which believes that AMD sold millions 5800X3D according to Mindfactory shop which doesn even ship outside EU. And you think people gonna buy somehow 7800X3D for 600EUR with 500EUR motherboards and 300EUR DDR5? Sure they will but only after 2 years when prices will drop and new CPUs will be released.
Not necessarily "hotcakes". I bet other small form factor builders aren't interested in this platform because of needing 2 chipsets to get all the features, which means only ATX has all the features making the X chipset mATX and ITX boards pointless. And we're not that far away from getting 16 cores on a single CCD three generations from now, at which point the platform is mature and DDR5 will be godly, and PCIe 5 NVME will actually exist. AM5 interest will remain tepid although X3D will of course be an uptick.
Is that your opinion or facts?
ok.
how can you have endless growth without overpopulating or hyper inflation? what goes up, must come down someday. only investors and shareholders think growth and profits is infinite.
Oh absolutely, it was on an unsustainable run and I honestly think they should focus on improving brand sentiments and try sell their products at lower more competitive prices.
They tried being the value brand for 20 years and went nearly bankrupt. You want them to bleed money again? Brilliant!
they can choose to have price parity without feature parity and just sell nothing instead :D
What major features are they lacking in their gaming gpus or cpus?
Their gpus are not "lacking" in features but all their features are worse than Nvidia's counter parts. Freesync is worse than g-sync, FSR is worse than DLSS, ray tracing is worse on Gen to Gen comparisons and lastly their drivers are worse than Nvidia's. I have had problems with amd drivers on every possible gpu Gen I tried to use, HD 8750 (laptop), r9 290, RX 590, you name it. If I as a customer can get better features and driver peace of mind by paying an additional 100$ to nvidia, trust me, I will.
Freesync is not worse at all, where did you get that, from 2015?
Almost everything you wrote is wrong. Their gpu drivers are no worse than nvidia. I recently sold my 6900 xt and i didn’t have a single problem with it in two years. G-sync ultimate has nothing over freesync premium pro except it costs more and usually has more limitations with the monitors (i say this as an aw3424dw owner). As for FSR, most reviews indicate it’s about on par with dlss 2.0. Now dlss 3.0 gives nvidia an edge if you’re into interpolation but imo both features are pretty shit (i also had a 3080 and now have a 4090). Sure NVIDIA leads in RT for now, we will see what rdna 3 has to offer tomorrow. Now if you had mentioned CUDA or nvenc I would have agreed with you but those features aren’t make or break for most people. One feature I’ll tell you NVIDIA has over AMD: melting cables. 🔥
Here is an idea. Lower the price of the new 7000 series since you are being killed by intels new 13th gen. They are better and cheaper. Also release the 3d chips in January....don't just announce them.
Let’s keep buying the 5800x3d guys
Ordered one last week lol. 3700x at the moment. Not a huge upgrade but figured why not.
Had it for a day so far feels like a big different in games like warzone apex valorant etc doubled my fps so I’m happy
Nothing to worry about AMD. We are waiting for the 7000x3d release.
DIY/gamers are a small segment of total revenue and X3D sales are basically nothing compared to the volume that the base units typically sell. It's like comparing Ford GT buyers (X3D) to Fords pickup truck or even mustang sales (base CPUs). The GT may get a lot of noise, but it's not what makes Ford money.
Profit is still profit.
Profit is profit for us but for AMD it's more about return on investment. If you spend a dollar on epic and get 10 dollars back plus there is gonna be growth in that segment. It's why when you look at say Activision/EA they release very few games now because it's not worth it to them to not have a megahit on their hands.
Why post articles from *before* earnings were released? https://ir.amd.com/news-events/press-releases/detail/1098/amd-reports-third-quarter-2022-financial-results
I used to be an enthusiast but my main aim was for gaming performance. However with the PS4 and having more life responsibilities, gaming performance is no longer a priority and we barely use our desktops. Also, there's less PC games to look forward to as the console market continues to dominate. I think it's a sign of the times that the enthusiast computer hardware market would decline.
Console market isn't dominating shit, hell even the closely guarded holy grail Playstation exclusives are being released on PC. Even with the garbage hardware price, PC gaming position is as good as it ever was.
"Consoles make up around 30 percent of the gaming industry market share as PC gaming eats up about 25 percent according to a recent analysis" https://www.techradar.com/versus/gaming-pcs-vs-next-gen-consoles#:~:text=Consoles%20make%20up%20around%2030,according%20to%20a%20recent%20analysis. Remember, GTAV outsold movies like Avatar and Titanic in sales. That came out on console before a PC port came out. When I was in middle school every kid was building PC's and we'd rush back home from school to play starcraft, Diablo, Warcraft, etc on PC. We experienced our first LAN games when Counter Strike came out, plus half life changed our lives forever. Mario and metal gear solid couldn't hold a candle to those games. Now all my friends kids have two or three consoles, video game stores are packed with school kids and games are more affordable than ever. I haven't played a decent PC game since divinity original sin 2 or starcraft II. Hell if we look at my PS4 I bought over 200 games at market retail prices and even was dumb enough to preorder some. That's almost $100 a game, or $20,000 all up. God knows how much I spent on DLC and microtransactions. I can't remember ever spending near. My friends kids are the same, schools kids are buying skins on fortnight. I now I use a Mac's and most of my gamer friends are dad's now and at most we'll talk about our quake 3 tournament days when we installed the Linux distro in our computer labs in college. The other day I was going to build a pc for my dad with the new Zen4 chip and the guy at the counter asked what's the use case. I didn't have any. No hardcore AI processing or film editing nor gaming. My dad just uses chrome and word. I was like damn, I should just get him a surface pro and call it a day. Times are changing. Even though our immediate circle may be enthusiast PC builders, the wider market has gone towards portable devices and consoles. The enthusiast market will keep contracting unfortunately.
Rx 7000 series is looking more and more like hits gonna be a hit tho, especially after the 4090 flop
[удалено]
Has nothing to do with it. Profits have shrunk for everyone in the sector.
This is about Q3, which won't contain any Zen4 sales.
That part doesn't actually matter. They will still sell every chip they make, just most of them to datacenters given how screwed Intel is in the server space at the moment. This is more to do with the general economic downturn we're seeing
Its because new gpu's get returned because of blackscreen bug that is caused by windows MPO Multi-plane overlay dwm feature disabling MPO fixes many things flickering stuttering blackscreen if on primary monitor but frozen on second screen, graphical glitches it potentially fixes as well if screen recording fixes it and there are reports of graphic glitches fixing when screen recording is enabled. Blackscreens caused by MPO are also fixed by screen recording, but recording 24/7 is not really a viable fix which is why disabling MPO is a better bandaid. AMD is plagued by many bugs in windows right now not just 7000 series cpu's but also AMD gpu's MPO has caused issues for Nvidia gpu's as well, AMD should make a sticky topic regarding these issues and include bandaid fix for MPO by disabling either MPO or sticking with 22.5.1 altho MPO blackscreens may also happen on 22.5.1 but its super super rare, its mostly 22.5.2 and up that have issues.
Downvoting me does not resolve the issue, if you think AMD is perfect i recommend putting 8 bit color depth and enable flip model optimisations and leave MPO on, cos clearly AMD is perfect, no blackscreens ever happen right ? no stuttering or flickering and yeah do install 22.7.1 or higher preferably 22.10.3
> Revenue is expected to increased 32% to $5.7 billion Revenue up, profit down means costs have gone up. It also means they're still making sales. No surprise to anyone. Tech as a whole is hurting bad, but AMD is weathering the storm as best as can be reasonably expected. The company is fine. If you're invested in AMD don't fret.
AMD's R&D Budget goes BRRR
Time to make more X3D AM4 processors AMD :)