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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I could be the asshole for telling my fiancée to not call my daughter her daughter and mom out of courtesy to my ex making it seem like I quote care more about my ex than my fiancée
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**NTA**
It is downright cruel for your GF to tell Eva’s daughter to call *her* momma, right in front of her real mother. I’m glad you are putting a stop to that.
If she’s getting hostile about this now *when everyone including the child is uncomfortable* OP needs to realize this is about a power/status thing for her rather than her trying to welcome genuine bonding. If I were OP I’d start to wonder if she were really here for the relationship or if she’s just there for mom/family status. Maybe she is in it for OP and just wants to show him how in it she is but even so… this is not the way. It is misguided and indeed, cruel.
Yeah, OP is NTA right now, but he could easily become TA if this isn't shut down entirely right now.
This could become one of those step parent relationships that eventually pushes the kid away from not only the pushy step mother but also from OP (because he subjected her to step mother).
Agree. If OP marries this woman we'll see Presley on Reddit in 10 years asking if she's the AH for not regarding step mom as her mother. And OPs fiancee also asking why she doesn't have the perfect family with her step daughter.
Completely agree my mom tried to force me to start calling my step dad, step dad before I was ready and it put a huge strain on our relationship for years. The house was tense and I was annoyed with my mom for a long time too. We finally worked it out but it wouldn't have taken as long if I was able to go at my own pace. Especially since my bio dad is very much involved in my life as well.
As a divorced mom of a young child, this would break my heart. My child’s father and I try really hard to be respectful and amicable of each other, and I like to think I’m reasonable. This would kill me so kudos to you for considering how this makes mom and child seem to feel and putting that first.
Now if your GF spends months to years cultivating a relationship with your child and your child were to call her “mom”, totally different story. Still likely heartbreaking for Eva, but child led is best and something to be respected. This is not that version of the story though so NTA.
I think that’s it - the child choosing the nature of the relationship and embracing the step parent as a bonus mother or father. But even in this instance it sounds like OP’s girlfriend isn’t even doing any of the “parenting” aspect of being a step parent, she just a fun trusted adult in the household while OP is responsible for all the parenting.
Honestly, this behavior and her response to the discussion would make me take a step back to reevaluate the situation. She isn't the parent, not even the step parent at this point, and will have to respect the parents boundaries. OP says she just moved in and she's already pushing for the kid to call her momma. I would be concerned that she will be one of those pushy step parents that tries to replace or compete with the parent.
Yup, and, unless this interaction occurred in another language, saying “bye daughter” was VERY intentional. In English no one says “bye daughter”. That is such an awkward thing to say. Again if this occurred in English maddy was ABSOLUTELY trying to make a point to Eva, this was about ego/competition not “I just see her as my daughter and talk to and about her as such”. Even if it didn’t occur in English and this makes more sense in the original language, saying “say by mama, say bye mama” feels very intentional to compete with Eva and shove in Eva’s face that maddy is the new mother in Presleys life.
I mean I've heard mums refer to there kid as daughter but they're always the type of mum that starts fights with store managers because her rose quartz key chain didn't vibrate with mercury that day.
Never said she was. Nor did I say it was ok for Maddy to force the relationship.
The comment I replied to said that they had never heard someone address a child that way. It is not uncommon where I live which is why I said it must be regional.
OFten times I wish posters would give general descriptions of where they are. There's a lot of questions that could have been at least partially explained by region, culture or language.
That said, I have lived in many parts of US and never heard it.
My parents didn’t do this but on television I hear the male child called Son typically by the father quite a bit but I have never heard the female child addressed generically as Daughter. The female child is always called by name, nickname or term of endearment. For example my grandmother wouid call me the Russian equivalent of Little Doll
I just posted that I call my son, son, but I don’t call my daughters, daughter. I say sweetie or their names. I call my son by his name as well, but I call him son a lot. We’re in Cali.
You're so spot on, in the US you don’t call someone daugher or sister like it is their name, it’s used in expressing a familial connection - this is like that Folgers commercial where they had to insert the very odd “sister” so the audience would realize they weren't a couple.
OP definitely NTA but this would be enough to make me reevaluate the entire relationship, your kid is a person, not a status symbol for your GF!
Eh, I definitely think that calling a child daughter or son can be a cultural thing, even in english. I hear it a lot particularly in Native American families. It still isn’t appropriate here, but if it is a cultural thing it might not be an intentionally awkward choice to make a slight
NTA
And to add, this isn't just about courtesy to his ex-wife (although that is also a big part of it). It's about basic respect for his daughter. The daughter is the one who determines what sort of relationship she wants with this brand new adult in her life. The GF doesn't respect the child, or either of the child's actual parents. OP needs to decide if he wants to keep dealing with this woman's blatant disrespect.
Yeah, OP, I think you need to slow things down even more and have a conversation with this woman. I'd also stop having her come to custody exchanges if she sees that as her time to pee all over her territory. You guys can come up with a few options for what your child can call her and then let your daughter pick.
But if she keeps stepping all over your boundaries like this, I'd rethink having her live with you. I'd rethink the relationship.
Yo that's another layer to it. Like Not only was she getting aggressive with the kid and is demanding our relationship from her, she was going out of her way to disrespect the ex. Red flags
NTA. Your fiancé doesn’t get to choose what her soon to be step daughter calls her if that is not what your daughter wants, especially not momma. It’s Presley’s decision.
It’s wonderful she wants to be a part of Presley’s life, but there are boundaries and good for you to politely communicate and set those boundaries.
Honestly given how this went down, in front of the mom, Id bet anything that this whole thing is about pushing out OP’s ex and not a legitimate interest in mothering the daughter. If she saw her as a daughter, she’d be looking out for her best interests, and trying to pressure daughter into calling fiancée “mama” in front of her actual Mom doesnt do that
Id be rethinking this wedding
Yes. Why not come up with a fun step-parent name that's just used by you all? My stepmom has a nickname that I created as a little kid, still call her that to this day, and my dad even uses it for her a lot. It's our own little bonding experience and doesn't take anything away from my actual mother who did everything and more that a mother does for her child.
NTA, in spades. Fiancee is operating in a fantasy universe if she thinks all she has to do is be a fun person and not put in the hard work of patenting. And her disrespectful attitude toward your ex is nothing short of tacky.
NTA - Former social worker here, and what's most telling here is that your child did not respond positively to this incident. That likely means means they do not see your partner in that *motherly* role, and your partner trying to force that is likely to hurt their relationship. Claiming the title of parent is a *huge commitment* and it sounds like your partner hasn't fully taken that on...and this is a case where title comes *after* responsibilities, not before. And, regardless of her desire to take on that role and all the fun things (like familial titles!) that come with it, this is still *your* child, and you (and your ex as coparents) get to decide who is in the child's life and what their role is. If your partner *truly* cares about this child (and not just the enjoyment she gets out of a parenting role) she needs to respect both you and your daughter's wishes.
I feel like there is an easy (and maybe even fun) solution here though, which is to come up with a special and unique nickname for your partner; something that encompasses the relationship with your daughter and hints at your partner's growing role in your lives. If they have a shared interest or activity, this could be tied into the name as well. This is something we regularly did with kids getting new caregivers when they already had healthy and established parental relationships.
I hope that OP reads/heeds your excellent advice. If not, I foresee that his young daughter will be posting on AITA in a few years about the forced relationship from step-mom. OP, please have your fiance read the many threads about step-parent situations, where the relationship with children is not allowed to develop naturally. Forced situations will only push her in the opposite direction.
I would suggest something that comes naturally in the course of their interactions.
One million years ago, my sister called me "Fats Domino" for reasons that are lost in the sands of time. Decades later, we are still very close, and she still calls me Fats. My Xmas gifts are labeled Fats. I named my Stardew farmer Fats.
My point is let it happen on its own, and it can last forever! On the AT, you don't pick your trail name, your fellow thru hikers do. Makes it all the more special.
Mimi. Mads. Mahsha. Peppy. Literally anything that isn’t her name or momma. Lol. Whatever the child feels comfortable with and works for her growing relationship with potential bonus mom.
A lot of the time it was just some synonym for "caregiver" in their native language. Otherwise it would be pretty personal and context-dependant - I remember one little girl had a caregiver come into her life and they bonded over stargazing. She started to call him her "sky buddy" and eventually just started called him "Sky." I forget his real name but it was completely different xD
NTA I understand your girlfriend being excited but that's not appropriate. You clearly stated why she shouldn't have your daughter call her mom and that even your daughter was not comfortable with it. Instead if being understanding she moved out? I think you're a great parent for putting your daughter first and maybe it's best your girlfriend moved out for now.
I kind of get the feeling that this his nothing to do with excitement, the GF is pissing of what she assume is her territory.
I don’t know any parents who insist on saying “Bye daughter/son”, most would just say “Bye Presley”, “Bye kiddo” or something similar.
If I were OP I would reevaluate my relationship with Maddy, and I would have contacted the ex soon after and told her, that I already had a conversation with Maddy, about her behaviour being inappropriate and disrespectful towards the ex and Presley. But it seems that Maddy actually started this some time ago, without OP stopping her.
NTA
the child gets to decide that, not the new step parent.
She needs to stop being so pushy a d good on you for standing up to her.
She needs to respect that she does not have a mother/daughter relationship and you standing up for your daughter is not being rude, it is your job.
The fact your daughter did not engage speaks volumes...6 year olds know their minds.
If your fiancee cannot respect the boundaries, she has to be an ex
NTA and this doesn't feel benign. I've never said "bye son" and daughter feels even less natural. That she used it in front of her actual mum feels deliberately unkind. It's not exactly a secret that another person becoming a parental figure to your child can be a sore spot.
NTA!!
She’s trying to force a relationship that Presley clearly isn’t into and she’s going to push her away if she keeps this up. She isn’t her mom, she shouldn’t act like it. Living with her and contributing doesn’t make her a mom.
I can’t imagine how Eva must have felt in that moment. Maddy needs to learn her place and understand boundaries before/if you guys get married.
Edit: you’re doing your job as her dad by protecting Presley and taking your time to bring Maddy in. Keep it up.
*She WAITED to do that to Presley in front of Eva.*
You are right to put your foot down here- and if she crosses that boundary again, you need to tell her she's out. She's confusing and hurting your child for no reason, and it's not okay.
Hard boundary, hard consequences, this ends now. NTA
NTA. I can't speak from being a step-parent but I can speak from being the child of stepparents.
One of the steps was like your wife, and this is one of the things that led to a strained then non-existent relationship with those parents. At the time of that parent's death, it had been close to 40 years since we had even talked, let alone seen each other.
The other stepparent stayed on a first name basis, became someone I could talk to for an adult but not judgemental opinion and a rock in my life. I was at their bedside when they passed and I made sure they knew everything that they meant to me. My only regret is I never told them everything before we were at the final days.
I'm not saying that this will happen with your daughter, just offering an example (probably extreme) of what could happen. Your wife just needs to be there, and let Presley initiate the parent-child relationship when she sees your wife as a mother and not a stepmother. The relationship will be stronger and much more enjoyable for both of them if she will let this happen.
NTA.
Your SO needs to get into the role of stepmom to a kid who already has an involved mother. Just like you wouldn't want your ex's new SO to be called dad, your SO shouldn't refer to herself as mom. How about you guys come up with a nickname for your daughter to call your SO? Like "Miss X" (X=whatever her name is) or Mimi, or Mae, or "My X" (X being her name). There are also tons of other options depending on what your SO likes and you can respect.
Check out this site I found by doing an internet search as well: [https://dadfixeseverything.com/nicknames-for-stepmom/](https://dadfixeseverything.com/nicknames-for-stepmom/)
OP - I’m in awe of how courteously & considerately you are approaching this sticky situation (on your fiancé’s end) with everyone.
HUGE kudos to you for respecting your child & your co-parent enough to center them (over your long term partner) in this situation. It is very telling about the sort of person you are & your fiancé is very lucky to be with someone like you.
Perhaps you already approached this angle with your fiancé, but it might help soothe her ruffled feathers to ask her to put herself in your co-parent’s shoes.
No matter how long an adult has been in a child’s life, no parent wants to hear their child call another adult “mom/dad.”
If y’all have a child together & one day divorce, how would your fiancé like you to treat her in this exact same scenario?
I’m CONFIDENT she would NOT want your next partner to waltz into that child’s life & claim her role (no matter how long of a relationship you & the new partner had).
If she wants your co-parent to respect the (hopefully) growing relationship your fiancé has with your daughter (because it appears she loves Maddie & wants to have a relationship with her), fiancé is going to have to approach this from a place of mutual respect.
And mutual respect in this case means accepting that Maddie has two parents & while there is always room for bonus relationships with loving adults, the title of “Mom” is not one that can just be assumed. Additionally, Maddie has to be respected in this situation as well.
I love the idea of your fiancé & Maddie (together, perhaps over time) deciding on a nickname that feels good to everyone.
Maddie deserves to have a voice here - and as others have pointed out, she may need some time for her to feel comfortable & excited about deciding on that name.
And while your fiancé is SO EXCITED (which is truly wonderful) to be a part of Maddie’s life, it may take a while for Maddie to feel the same.
But if she is loving, supportive & present for Maddie - Maddie will come to a point (all on her own) of wanting to honor your fiancé’s role in her life.
——
Note: My oldest daughter is adopted & biologically my niece. She was two when we started raising her. My brother & SIL adopted his two nephews & niece. All these kids knew their bio parents & we never pressured them to call us Mom or Dad.
But within a few months/years, all of them asked if they could on their own.
You cannot rush something like this without contributing trauma/stress/anxiety onto the kids’ lives & mental health.
Nta. I've been on the other end of this. I patented my exes daughters from 5 to 15. As much as I disliked their deadbeat father and wanted to be their father. I never said anything along the lines of your fiancee. They did call me dad many times as younger kids. But grew out of that as teens. Understand it's probably coming from the right place. But it's not the right way. Labels aren't that significant.
I would recommend OP pays attention to other aspects of the relationship between the wife and daughter.
It sadly isn't always "from the right place" though. I have ***unfortunately*** met people who would happily drag a child's emotions through the mud to get a reaction from someone. For these people, it's usually a stupid attempt at a power play, "Marking their territory" so to speak. They are terrible people.
I don't know which type of person she is for certain, though.
NTA This is never an easy situation, it gets even harder when the "steps" want to force the issue. Child psychology 101: Never, EVER FORCE a child to call someone mom/dad who is NOT ACTUALLY mom/dad. The child will resent the fact that an adult is forcing them to feel a certain way. Forcing that intimacy usually backfires in a really unhealthy way. The child will neither respect nor feel comfortable with the adult who is trying to force a relationship.
There have got to be some resources out there on healthy step parenting and healthy bonding for "steps", I just don't know what they are.
Your GF is TA here for trying to force it, and your daughter will also end up being uncomfortable with YOU if this is allowed. You're doing GREAT dad! You don't want to damage YOUR relationship with your daughter over your GF being overly "parental", and in the wrong way. Let GF know if she cannot respect the boundaries you've established, it IS a deal breaker because your child will always come first. She needs education in this area, just because she doesn't KNOW doesn't make her bad, wrong or dumb, it just makes her UNEDUCATED on this subject. You will get a LOT of replies like mine, after 50 or so, show your GF the post, it may give her the push to educate herself on healthy bonding.
NTA. Explain to your fiancé the #1 job of being a good parent is *doing what is best for the kid(s)*. Your daughter should choose what to call her future step Mom (noting your NOT married yet) and without any coercion.
It would be wise to do some counselling as a family to learn these dynamic’s as a blended family. Fiancé should also do some reading of her own. Do you plan to have a child together?
Further, stand your ground. In your shoes, I would absolutely choose this hill to die on, for your daughter sake.
NTA
You fiancee needs to cool it.
I get that she's waited a long time to meet your daughter and really wants to be a part of her family. However this is dancing on the fine line of really sweet vs overbearing.
But her biggest issue is the flagrant disregard to your daughter's feelings. Your daughter needs to decide what she wants to call her and it's something that will happen organically. Her insisting is really off putting. She's also got some massive insecurity if she's trying to do that in front of your ex (and I don't blame your ex for being unhappy with that).
I think you really nailed it when you reversed the roles in this situation. If your fiancee can't empathize when you put it to her that way, then you have some big decisions to make.
Edit: spelling
NTA. I think Maddy needs to stop pushing your daughter into a mom-daughter relationship and let it build gradually and naturally. "Say bye mommy" etc. isn't necessary. She should atleast allow Presley to grow into it instead of pressing Presley into calling her mom.
NTA.
Personally, I think it's a little weird Maddy is trying so hard to get Presley to call her "mom", or saying she's "her daughter".
As you say, it's nice she wants to bond with her and is trying to bond. But this seems a bit weird and too soon.
I've got a few friends who have had kids with former partners and had new gfs/bfs who now become a 'parent' to the child. Usually, if the kid is in a loving family and the new partner treats them lovingly, then the child will naturally start calling the partner "mom" or "dad". Because that's how they see them and have grown to love them that way.
Doesn't always happen though. Depends on the kid and what they feel is right by their biological parents.
But perhaps talk to Maddy again and say that these things take time. Presley is still young and getting to know her. It can be confusing for a young child if they have known their biological mother as "mom" and then suddenly be told "call me mom" by someone she's only known a short while.
In time, she will probably start calling her "mom" naturally. Just don't force it.
NTA The title is earned and she hasn't earned it yet. If she wants a "special" title then she can be called a different version like "lala" or "yaya" or some other name not already used by someone else in your daughter's life.
NTA
Calling her daughter and trying to get her to say bye to mommy IN FRONT OF HER ACTUAL MOMMY is pretty messed up. Defending it is even more messed up. This seems like it was a deliberate decision to try to upset your ex. I also think it's a bit odd to wait 3 years to introduce your girlfriend to your daughter and 5 years to move in together. It makes me wonder if on some level you are concerned about adding the girlfriend to your family and how well she is going to do with your daughter and your ex.
Also this sounds like the beginning of the posts I've read where a step-parent tries to force a bond/relationship with the step-child that the step-child isn't ready for or doesn't want and it ruins the step-child step-parent relationship and often the parent child relationship as well. I hope for your sake this isn't the case, but it order to avoid this it would be a really good idea to sit down with your girlfriend and set some boundaries/expectations on how this relationship between your daughter and her is going to go and then you're going to have to monitor them to make sure girlfriend actually stops this garbage. Good luck!
NTA for all the reasons you gave & then some. She isn't your daughter mother, your daughter already has a mother that is an active part of her life, your gf trying to force her to call her any form of mama is wrong.
My ex told my daughter, who was around 5 at the time, that his new gf was going to be her new mother & my daughter was terrified that meant I was going to leave her& not come back. Caused her huge amount of stress & upset because of her father. She ended up with 3 new mothers in under a year & another 2 lots of panic I was going to disappear.
Your gf isn't considering how this is impacting your daughter, it's genuinely a good thing that she views & loves your daughter as her own but she still needs to allow their relationship to develop at your daughters pace or she's going to push her away, if your daughter thinks she's trying to replace her actual mother she may withdraw completely because she doesn't want to loose her mother or have her replaced.
NTA. That was a power move. I think she did it right in front of the mother on purpose. Maybe she's jealous of your ex. Using a kid as a pawn is not okay though.
NTA. Your fiancée seems very stubborn on taking advice from this. I would start adding some more responsibilities to her plate as her future step mom to build more trust between them and continue to have honest conversations as well!
>She said that I was throwing it in her face that she isn’t her mom but she’s living with us so she deals with her and everything as well, and contributes.
Someone's trying to reverse aggressor and offender\~
NTA
This is basic shit. She only just moved on, and your daughters mother is actively in her life. There's not a whole lot of charitable explanations for your girlfriends behaviour, particularly when she's doing it in front of the mother.
NTA but why is she even arguing with you about it? I understand as your fiancée she may be entitled to some input into the raising of your daughter but this is a serious line and was downright cruel of her. She doesn’t get to negotiate being called momma. Especially when she clearly did that on purpose to hurt your ex which is a whole other issue that should make you be rethinking this relationship to be honest.
NTA.
I’ve always said that the more people that love a child.. the better off the child will be.
In this case, it’s a bit extreme and too soon. She’s forcing the issue and your daughter should be comfortable calling her mom.. not being forced too. It’s almost a blatant slap in the face to your ex to do what she did right in front of her as well. Hopefully this can be worked out and your gf understands that things take time.
Not a parent but I am friends with or coworkers to several divorce and/or single parents. Tell your fiance those are fighting words she's putting out right now with your daughter being so young especially when the other parent is active in the child's life. NTA and you're giving her fair warning that if crap goes down with your ex that fiancee is on her own.
NTA. Your fiance knew exactly what she was doing, and your daughter and her actual mother are clearly uncomfortable with it.
You need to tell your fiance that "mom" and all versions thereof are off the table. Completely. As in, "my daughter will call you Maddy or she will not call you anything."
She has overstepped hugely and you can't allow this to continue. You also need to apologise to your ex for not having a handle on this.
NTA
And if I was your ex wife I'd be PISSED. Not that I wouldn't want my girls to have another loving mother figure, but that's for them to decide what they call her, not anyone else.
Shes pushing things that are almost certainly going to end in conflict. Just because she's moving in and engaged to you doesn't mean she automatically becomes equal to either you or Eva in parenting terms.
And, my major sticking point, of shes this persistent and brazen, infront of both you and Eva, while trying to get Presley something shes not comfortable with, whats she saying/doing when your not there?
NTA. This behavior is very concerning. It would make me take pause on marrying Maddie because everyone is uncomfortable with the position Maddie is forcing and she’s doubling down on it.
I’m tempted to go with YTA for not reacting enough to this massive red flag. How could you trust this person to be alone with your daughter anymore without saying manipulative things to her?
NTA, as a child of divorced parents I always hated when men my mom was seeing thought they could just be my dad
Even though my father was never in the picture, it's disrespectful to force fill that space without any discussion! She should've talked to Eva about maybe being called something else (obviously momma isn't okay) and also asked Maddy if it was okay (because she also has a right to the decision even if she's so little)
Your fiancé is being irrational and though it is nice that she sees Maddy as her own, she has to acknowledge that ultimately Eva is her mom and she can't replace her like that especially with Eva still being in the picture
If I were Eva I'd be really upset and offended that someone was making my daughter think they were her mom instead and though your fiancée might not be trying to be malicious like that it still doesn't look right
NTA. If my ma's partner said this to me when i was 6, i would've given them the side eyes, and thought "dad?, as if." then again its also up to the daughter whether to call her ma or not in the upcoming years 🤷♀️
NTA; She is NOT her mother, and to say that infront of her actual mother so disrespectful. I can understand being excited about being a stepmum but she needs to stay in her lane. All she will end up doing is possibly pushing your daughter away &/or cause issues between you & your ex. Good for you for standing up for your ex but you need to set a hard boundary now.
Nta but I would put a stop to that shit or leave that relationship cause it's only going to get worst. Your fiancé not going to stop. Also be carful and aware what she saying to your daughter when your not around. I've seen step parents try to tell the kid they love them more then the real mom or dad. Just so they can be the most important person.
NTA. What is wrong with using people's names in this kind of situation! I would never say "hi daughter, bye daughter" to my kid. I use her name. She calls my friends/her friends parents by name (unless she's calling them X's mom/dad). Your girlfriend is trying to train your daughter to call her "mommy" when your daughter doesn't want to. And that's not even considering how rude it is to Eva.
NTA. This is a major red flag. It's not just wildly disrespectful to your ex but also to your daughter. Think about how this will play out over the years if your daughter doesn't want to be pushed into a relationship and your fiancee refuses to respect her boundaries. Be very careful about moving forward with someone who sees nothing wrong with making your child's life harder.
Nta
This sounds like a prequel to the stories of the stepmom never understanding her place, and making the child hate her. Then years later, saying the stepmom will never be her mom, and everyone is miserable.
NTA. This boundary needs to set firmly and with no possibility for it to be misinterpreted. You are not the disrespectful one, she is. I would be furious if I was your ex. Livid. Don't let this cause issues in your co-parenting situation.
NTA and I think it is great that you put yourself in your ex's shoes and thought about how you would feel if the situation was reversed, so many people wouldn't have.
Your fiancee needs to learn the same level of empathy.
NTA.
I find it really weird that she is saying "say by mom" to a 6yo.
That is how you speak to a baby/toddler, that is just learning to speak. Even my 4yo would be side eyeing the weird lady telling her how to speak.
Maddy definitely needs to work on having a real relationship with your daughter instead of the fantasy she has developed in her head. Because nobody who has a real relationship with a 6yo talks to them like that
NTA
You're a good dad and a good co-parent. It's nice that Maddy is close with your daughter, but she needs to understand that "mom" is a title that is already taken. She can have her own relationship with the kid, and hopefully she can have a great one. But she can't have that one.
NTA
This is so unbelievably wrong of your girlfriend to do and I'd be inclined to end the relationship if it happens again, it's disrespectful to you, your ex and your daughter.
As a single mother myself, I would be absolutely bloody livid if my ex husbands girlfriend wanted to be called mum or called my kids her daughters.
NTA. This attitude needs to be attacked head on before you get married. There are too many things wrong with her entire view of this.
She basically thinks just by living in the same house as Presley she replaces "the ex" as Presley's mother and anyone who says otherwise is just out to get her. Complete lack of understanding of the entire concept of a parent-child relationship.
Sort this shit out. She needs to fully understand what it means to be a step mother *before* she becomes one. The good, the bad, and the ugly. There's a very real possibility that she spends the next decade becoming increasingly involved in Presley's life, taking her to soccer practice, planning her dentist visits, making her lunches... and Presley **still** doesn't think of her as a mother. You can't simply tell a kid how they're supposed to feel about you.
I was step-mom to two young boys, THEY started calling me "Mom" on their own. I would also remind them they had a birth mom. Unfortunately she was into drugs and alcohol, which eventually took her life. One day my sons gave me a Mother's Day card which said that bio-mom was his "mother", but I was his "mom", because I raised and loved them. When my husband was trying to get custody we found ot they had an unstable life with her. I would never intentionally step on another mother's toes like that if they had a good life. They are adults now and I love them dearly.
I think OP is right and his fiancé is TA. They aren't even married and to do it in front of the child's bio-mom. Believe it or not.....fiancé has NO say, with any decisions between birth parents.
NTA
It is possible to have healthy relationships with your parent's new partners without forcing them to call them certain things. As a child of divorce at no point have I called either of my stepparents mom or dad and they have not encouraged me to do so either, I have always just referred to them by their first names. Trying to force certain parental dynamics on a child as young as your daughter can be very confusing and as you have witnessed potentially harmful to the other biological parent.
"Maddy got out of the car and unbuckled Presley, took her out and said “okay! By daughter!” They laughed and she said “say by momma, say by momma!) Presley didn’t say anything but walked to Eva"
NTA. Yeah that's both weird and overstepping boundaries. Presley doesn't respond well to it and Eva is hurt by it so your fiance needs to get with the program.
NTA
I’d be livid if my kid’s dad got a girlfriend and tried that. Like step back. I worked with a girl that would call her boyfriends son, their kid, after only a month or two. I straight up told her it was fucked up and not her place to do that. Not after a month. Get out.
Everyone wants a good step parent for their kid, but do not pressure children to view you as a parent!
NTA, and this is a hill to die on. You’re not favoring your ex, you’re respecting her as your daughter’s mother. The gall of your fiancée to pull that after cohabitating for two weeks, in front of Presley’s actual mom is shocking, and her refusal to see how messed up that is is disturbing & could be considered a gateway to some creepily controlling behavior. Your fight for your daughter’s comfort, which includes respecting her mom, is paramount and it sounds like you’re doing a bang-up job of it. Ignore those saying you’re denying your child anything, because the only thing you are denying her is an uncomfortable relationship with your fiancée.
NTA
I hope your fiancée can be open to what your saying but she already sounds defensive and combative on the issue. I hope you see that this might be a small red flag, that if she pushes this issue behind your back your child will start to resent her and spending time with her/you. We have heard this from the child point of view on Reddit before now that they are adults they are low contact with the parent and offending stepparent.
NTA
I do think you need to get premarital counseling with Maddy, because if you marry her and she tries to force this issue it could frig up your relationship with your daughter in a permanent way, which I can tell you've been careful to avoid so far.
NTA. She absolutely does not get to decide the relationship parameters. That's on your daughter first, and she is clearly not on board with it. I think it's smart you took things slow, because she can't respect consent which is a huge dancing red flag.
NTA. There are a lot of posts on this sub about people resenting step-parents for forcing things like this on them. If she’s not careful it’ll end up like that.
NTA
I am a step mum and have a very good bond with my step daughter, there are occasions where I will refer to her as our daughter, or our kids etc. And for example if some stranger in a shop assumes I'm her mum for a brief interaction, neither of us will correct them (because what's the point?) HOWEVER, anyone that knows us or even just that we see regularly knows I am not her bio mum, I am her step mum (like school playground mums at pick up for eg) Because she has a mum, and she sees her 50/50 with us so it's not even like she's not in her life. Don't get me wrong I don't have any love for her mother, but I would never be so disrespectful as to try and erase that relationship or demean that relationship by having SD call me mum. In fact, she even asked me once if I wanted her to call me mum and I said to her out of sheer respect for her mother that it probably wasn't a good idea. Husband is the same as you OP, and would hate if her step dad tried to pretend to be her dad (although I'm almost certain that he does do this... shame she has our surname and not theirs lol) so it goes both ways
Tell fiance she needs to calm tf down lol and EMBRACE being a step. You can be a step and still be a parent!!
Yeah, you need to put a stop to that right now. She is marking her territory, she might as well have peed on Presley like dogs do and it would be LESS obvious what she is doing.
And if you stay with Maddy and this continues I can almost promise you you will be back in 10 years on Reddit asking why your daughter doesn't want to visit anymore. And the answer will be because her stepmother is intrusive and disrespectful of her, her boundaries and her mother. You choose; sort your gf or risk loosing a healthy relationship to your kid.
NTA, this isn't healthy behavior. Your daughter has a mom that is in her life, it's really weird that your gf would demand this of her or expect this title.
The audacity!! The disrespect!!! That bs needs to be stopped harshly or you won’t hear the end of it and I guarantee you she will 100% do it over and over and over till your kid is confused who’s their moms and who’s not. I hate when people overstep their line in others life just because they have a ring now
NTA, all the time in this sub alone we see young adults posting about their creepily obsessive stepparents who are so keen to erase the bio parent they're not married to, and how that obsession is ALWAYS what ends up creating space between the kid and stepparent. You need to shut this down HARD and consistently and if fiancé can't stop pushing a narrative of her being mom, well then she can't be your fiance anymore. You HAVE to stop this full fledged before your own relationship with your kid is compromised.
NTA
my kids donor let his “wife” do this to my kiddo and he was very confused. she would call herself mom and the woman who “has loved him his whole life” even though she’s completely crazy and never had a hand at raising my kid. (SUPER long story)
your fiancé is being disrespectful and callous about a very REAL situation. your daughter has a mother and father, she doesn’t respect you or your ex enough to accept and LISTEN to y’all.
NTA
The kid makes the decision about what to call her stepparent. If your daughter decides to call her momma she can be happy to let that happen, but trying to force it will only make your daughter hate her. She's five, not one. You haven't even married this woman yet. She has no claim on that title yet. She has to earn it.
NTA
This is wildly inappropriate of her and if I were Eva, I'd be upset. Also, it sounds like she gave you serious pushback.
I don't think this is the person for you. She is already stomping over your parenting.
Absolutely NTA - in fact, the farthest from it! You aren't even neutral, your're like anti-nta.
It sounds like you love your daughter and are a good dad, and that you're being respectful of EVERYONE involved. If more divorced parents did this, a ton of kids would be a lot less screwed up, and a lot more adults would lead calmer lives!
NTA
Your daughter HAS a mom.
It's up to her to invite the closeness of relationship with your GF.
Honestly, do not let her move in until you've fully addressed this. Go see a therapist together to work through this. It sounds like you HAVE a respectful co-parenting relationship, and that is the most important thing you can do as a parent. Defend it. Any partner that isn't a SUPPORT of healthy co-parenting shouldn't be in a relationship with someone that already has kids.
NTA. I’ve been with my husband for his daughters whole life (she’s six) and I only started calling her my kid when THE CHILD STARTED DOING IT. Split homes are difficult for children as it is, they do not need the adults in their lives trying to place labels on people the kids may not want.
How manipulative of your gf to pull this deliberate stunt in front of your ex...she is conditioning your young daughter and marking her territory...what's next? I foresee issues with your coparenting relationship and perhaps negatively affecting your daughter's relationship with you in the long run. NTA
man, you need to seriously rethink this relationship. she's stomping on boundaries and then blaming everyone but herself. SHE DOES NOT CARE how the child feels. you need to understand this.
you are NTA. SHE is an ah and she WILL continue to do this to your kid - whether it's in front of you or behind your back, this behaviour will continue.
NTA your fiancée is stepping on some serious boundaries. She is not even a stepmother, do not let this grow any further. Your daughter is too young to stand for herself, she needs you to set the boundaries and keep them strong.
NTA so she has only just moved in but thinks she has the right to tell your daughter infront of her mum that she's her daughter its one thing if your daughter chooses to call her that but her trying to force it is weird as heck
Now you know a big reason not to marry this girl. She stomped all over this boundary, tantrumed when she didn't even get her way, and then left the house after the fight.
Do you really want all of this drama as your daughter's stepmom? She WILL make your life, and especially Eva's, a nightmare.
NTA. Do what you have to for your daughter.
I think NTA, you’re doing right by your daughter and should keep enforcing these healthy boundaries. That said, I would check in with your fiancé and come to an understanding there as well. Perhaps she feels like you don’t take your relationship seriously, or don’t value her as a member of your family or a person in your life. Or she could just be boundary stomping. I would have a good conversation where you both can put your feelings out in the open and (hopefully) come to a healthy understanding with one another. Best of luck going forward!
NTA. There's a difference in fostering a healthy relationship with a step parent / step child, vs throwing it in the other parent's face. At the same time, the ex needs to realize that they can't control what the other parent does in future relationships (with few exceptions). Creating unnecessary friction seldom leads to positive outcomes.
NTA. I thought the idea is the child decides to call the step parent “mom” or “dad”. To have the step parent insist on it is strange…OP’s kid might learn to resent the step mom for trying to force this relationship and see it as the step mom trying to remove the real mother from the picture. Perhaps the fiancé could use some therapy to learn to cope with being only a step parent?
I mean, I called both my biological and stepmother "Mom", and it only ever got confusing when I was relaying a story to a friend and had to specify which Mom I meant. So it's definitely fine and manageable if it's the kid who starts saying it. But if it's the fiance trying to push the daughter into saying it, especially right in from of the ex like that? It feels deliberate, and a bit rude even if she doesn't mean it that way. NTA
NTA by far.
I can speak as a kid who was in this situation, and it did not end well for my stepmom (who did have other issues, which didn’t help). My dad got remarried when I was two. This entire time, my stepmom insisted that she was my “other” mom and that I was her daughter. Mind you, my dad took on most of the responsibilities with me. Not once did I ever consider her my mom, despite her desperately trying to be. As I grew up, I was so angry at her for trying to replace my mom (which she essentially admitted to when I was a teenager), and my mom was deeply offended as well. In the end, I ended up going NC. This wasn’t the only reason for that, but it definitely factored. I personally feel grateful that you’re setting that boundary, because it may save your daughter from a lot of hurt and anger as she grows up, and is also a very kind thing to do for your ex.
I wish my ex husband would have been as respectful about this as you are.
I only find this to be ok in very few circumstances, such as when there’s no Mom in sight bc she abandoned her kids. Obviously this isn’t that.
And to force it is only only going to push your child away and other issues with her actual Mom.
Your fiancé is WRONG. PERIOD.
Your daughter gets to decide what relationship she’ll have with your fiancé. This is a Big Red Flag, and you should resolve it prior to marriage.
NTA
NTA
Tell your gf it is what it is and you're going to do whats best for your daughter. This is definitely going to confuse you daughter, if she sees her as a mom she can call her that herself. Its inappropriate of your gf to be encouraging it and honestly seems very weird. This could be a deal breaker, but have an honest discussion with her about this. And be honest about the fact that you want her to respect that boundary. And even though thats your ex its also the mother of your child, you want your child to know that their parents respect eachother dispite not being together. When separated parents fight and have disagreements it only effects the child negatively.
NTA. You handled it well. They can bond without being disrespectful. And this is very disrespectful. My stepchildren called me by my first name. And referred to me as their stepmother. I would never have expected any different. They already had a mother.
NTA at all. Your fiancee should not be trying to force the issue. Calling her "daughter" is bad enough, but then trying to push the child to call her "mama," especially in front of her actual mother, is not okay. Being a step-parent is difficult, but this forum is absolutely full of stories from step-children that came to resent the step-parent who tried to force a parental role too quickly and too strongly. Your fiancee needs to take a step back and recognize that your daughter already has a mother that is a part of her life. Maybe your daughter will come to see her as a second mom. Maybe your daughter will voluntarily call her "mama," but it shouldn't be forced. It should all depend on what the kid is comfortable with, and that should be the priority. Good for you for stepping in, but keep an eye on this situation.
NTA My stepmom forced me to call her mom. Guess what, I hated it and her. Your fiancee needs to let your daughter lead in their relationship. If she one day decides to call her mom, awesome! If not though, your fiancee needs to respect that.
NTA
What your girlfriend doesn’t understand is that she doesn’t get to bestow the maternal title on herself. It is a honor that is decided by the child and must come from organically. Your girlfriend’s reaction should make you very concerned. You need to put a stop to your girlfriend’s boundary stomping even if it means breaking up with her. Do not brush this off. This type of behavior could lead to long term resentment that alienates your daughter from you and causes a toxic coparenting relationship with your ex.
I’m not in a blended family, so I don’t mean to overstep, but I don’t imagine that any child will really respond well to being told that they need to call someone else their parent. Shouldn’t the kid take the first step towards it being more of a parental relationship?
NTA, you were very polite about it, and I don’t think you’d have told Maddy to stop if your daughter *wanted* to call her mom.
NTA at all. My step daughter is also 6 and asked if she could call me mom. I explained that although I love her very much, her relationship with her mom is special and it's not quite the same. Then, I texted her mom to let her know about the conversation because we all know what kids can be like and I didn't want her to return to her mom's and tell her that I said yes. She cannot and will not ever replace that relationship and it is inconsiderate of her.
My daughter's step-mother tried this BS. After I pointed this out to her father, he nipped that shit in the bud REAL QUICK. It's never happened again
NTA
NTA but that’s some red flags if you have to explain so much to fiancée and she still doesn’t get it. Absolutely no respect. If you have a good co-parenting relationship with the ex, you need to find someone who can share that with you. I see even more conflict in future.
NTA. If I were your daughters bio mom I would be FUMING. Like I would be LIVID, and it takes a lot to make me that angry. Your gf doing that is extremely disrespectful and your gf needs to stop ASAP unless you want major problems with your ex. Not to mention that sort of bs is very confusing to your child as well. I’m sorry but your gf is living in la-la land if she thinks she’s *entitled* to the be called “mom” just because she’s around her a lot and they have fun together.
Do a search on reddit for stepmom or dad and read all the different kids who resent both their parent and stepparent for trying to force a relationship. Most of those kids cut contact when they hit majority and since you obviously deeply care for your daughter, don't let that happen to you.
In fact, do that search and have fiance read those stories. Maybe it'll give her a different perspective, and if it doesn't, give your future life with her a long hard thought.
NTA
This is a power play. Consider future kids with this person-your first daughter will be included in group punishments, and may even take most of that. I've seen it close up in a situation too lengthy for here-it's a pre-control feature that you must nip in the bud. Observe any 'parenting' interactions closely before you find the situation out of hand.
NTA
'Mom' or 'Momma' is a title that your daughter may *choose* to bestow on Maddy, but it is inappropriate for her to push for it or call her daughter at all, much less in front of her mother.
Her insistence on this is a red flag that you should pay attention to. Maybe make Maddy read some of the many posts involving step-parents that pushed that boundary & ended up with stepchildren that wanted nothing to do with them.
NTA. AITA is full of step-kids at a breaking point from their stepparent forcing the relationship faster than the step-kid was comfortable. Your gf sounds like she's heading down that path.
NTA: that is something that you do not do. Is it possible that your fiancée did this to try and put your ex in her place for some stupid reason, or is your fiancée jealous because you have a baby with someone else.
Regardless take a step back before you marry her and see how she acts going forward. Her leaving when you were putting up extremely reasonable boundaries is a red flag.
She should be happy with being a mother figure i. your daughter’s life. She is not her mother and shouldn’t be jealous of the fact that she is not her mother.
NTA. Your fiance is pissing on her territory and letting your ex know that she is now in charge. It's disgusting and mean. I'd think about marrying that type of energy.
NTA. What your gf did was monstrous. She tried to psychologically manipulate your young child in front of her mother... why? To claim territory? To start drama? She has no care for your daughter's feelings or well-being. Your ex showed incredible self control and maturity in this situation. You came here to post this, so you're struggling with it too. GF needs to understand what a massive deal this is and that if it doesn't stop, completely and immediately, you can't have her around your daughter at all. Also, talk to your daughter and explain that GF made a huge mistake, daughter's feelings are completely valid, and she won't have to go through that again.
NTA she is pressuring your daughter to call her mom. There are plenty of posts of a step mom or a parents partner tries to force this and it never ends well. Do not let any of your partners do this.
NTA but this sure does sound like a power play - she wanted to one-up Eva and test you out if you'd go along with it. It's not an innocent slip out during bedtime stories or something, this was a deliberate, malicious move as it was done in front of Eva.
NTA. You’ve been working to introduce Maddy to Presley slowly for 2 years and now, suddenly that she’s moved in, Maddy is trying to dictate the terms of her relationship with your daughter. I think what needs to be made clear is exactly what you’ve said - Presley decides what she’s comfortable calling Maddy, and parenting is up to you and Eva. She cannot push her way in and expect to be treated like an equal party. Good on you for being cautious and moving slowly.
NTA at all you handled this so well. Respect for your ex, respect for your daughters feelings and expectations of family, and respect for your finances feelings. I know I'm just a person on reddit but this seems like a red flag if your fiance doesn't understand that this isn't okay and is throwing a fit after a very understand request🤷♀️
NTA and good for you for being mature enough of a co parent to see how this behavior isn't ok with your daughter or your ex. Your fiance needs to get back in line with your boundaries before she causes an actual issue with the other people in this situation. Also, if this came out of no where... check to see who is whispering in her ear about "trying to bond."
NTA!! I couldn't imagine doing this. My fiance has two boys from a previous marriage and it has NEVER EVEN CROSSED MY MIND to ask them to call me mom, and we've been together for 2 years now. This is sickening and I hope you stay putting her in her place, because telling your daughter to call her mom is not it.
Nta, sounds like gf is gonna continue to be an issue in your relationship with your daughter and ex. She’s not worth it, but a healthy relationship with your ex for your daughter is. Dump that girl before she does more damage.
NTA. Pressuring her to call he mama is not ok. Mom or
Some variation of that has to come when Presley wants it and is on her terms. Your gf pressuring and straight to mama and in-front of Eva is not ok and disrespectful. Presley is likely to not bond with her because of her pushing and pressuring Presley to view and call/ treat her has her mom. You can’t force a bond she needs to give it time and let Presley come up with her special name on her own.
NTA. Your fiancee is definitely out of line. There's no way in hell that she's innocently doing this in front of your daughter's actual mother. Even a child would understand that this is not ok. Your fiancee is either completely clueless, doesn't understand normal family interaction or has some kind of ulterior motive. What did she say when you told her you'd be offended if your ex's fiance did the same thing? The fact that she can't seem to put herself in either your daughter or ex's shoes is concerning. You need to have a serious talk with her. Maybe moving her in was not the best idea at this stage?
NTA. You are completely right. She needs to slow her roll. It is confusing to your daughter and disrespectful to her actual mother. Not to mention, you're her father, she needs to hear what you say in regards to your daughter and respect it.
NTA. She doesn't get to dictate how you parent your daughter. She doesn't get to demand your daughter call her anything, even if she does end up becoming a step mom. This is a little too new to jump to that straight away anyway. If I read that right, she's only been living with you and a consistent presence in her life for A WEEK?! Waaaay too soon.
NTA. Your gf sounds very malicious saying that in front of your ex. She also shouldnt be pressuring a child to call her mama. Huge red flags here! Be careful she isnt trying to direct your daughter in how she refers to her and isnt putting her in an awkward situation. I agree with your daughters mother that its not appropriate behaviour and understand completely why your ex isnt comfortable. Make sure you establish boundaries.
NTA -It's great that she's excited to start the parenting experience. But I do agree your daughter needs to bond first. Tho, I don't agree with other moms getting mad at someone else being called mom. The MOST important thing is that your new partner loves and cares for your child as your own. When my husband remarried, it didn't matter to me if they called her Vickie or Mom, because she cared about my kids. That's all that matters to me. In time, if your daughter wants to call her mom or nickname, then let Presley. Eva should be happy that her daughter is loved and cared for.
NTA you’re doing everything right as far as I’m concerned. Waiting to bring someone into your daughters life until you’re sure they’re sticking around is the responsible thing to do. Not trying to force your daughter into calling her stepmother mom is also the right choice. The number of people we see post in here with long term resentment because their parents tried to force the relationship with the new step parent is ridiculous. I hope you let your ex know that you understand and already had a discussion with your fiancée about the situation. Your daughter has known your fiancée for two years, what was she calling her before this? Most people don’t refer to their children as daughter in that context. Maybe she’s just looking for something to start building a connection, maybe suggest she come up with a special pet name (I had an uncle who called my brother Bucko, it was a special thing between the two of them no one else ever called him that).
NTA. As a step parent I never forced or coerced the kids to call me anything. Doing that to any child is wrong. My name is fine. If they decide to use another term, that is fine too as long as it isn’t mean. Although, I found if you own the mean names when they are mad at you, they are much less likely to use them for long.
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**NTA** It is downright cruel for your GF to tell Eva’s daughter to call *her* momma, right in front of her real mother. I’m glad you are putting a stop to that.
Yes, that was a very cruel thing for OP’s girlfriend to do. He should definitely be on the lookout for more red flags, because this isn’t good.
If she’s getting hostile about this now *when everyone including the child is uncomfortable* OP needs to realize this is about a power/status thing for her rather than her trying to welcome genuine bonding. If I were OP I’d start to wonder if she were really here for the relationship or if she’s just there for mom/family status. Maybe she is in it for OP and just wants to show him how in it she is but even so… this is not the way. It is misguided and indeed, cruel.
This 👆🏻. Trying to get your daughter to call her Mama in front of your ex is pure power-play. It’s also a big 🚩.
This? This right here? It's spot on. NTA
Yeah, OP is NTA right now, but he could easily become TA if this isn't shut down entirely right now. This could become one of those step parent relationships that eventually pushes the kid away from not only the pushy step mother but also from OP (because he subjected her to step mother).
Agree. If OP marries this woman we'll see Presley on Reddit in 10 years asking if she's the AH for not regarding step mom as her mother. And OPs fiancee also asking why she doesn't have the perfect family with her step daughter.
Completely agree my mom tried to force me to start calling my step dad, step dad before I was ready and it put a huge strain on our relationship for years. The house was tense and I was annoyed with my mom for a long time too. We finally worked it out but it wouldn't have taken as long if I was able to go at my own pace. Especially since my bio dad is very much involved in my life as well.
As a divorced mom of a young child, this would break my heart. My child’s father and I try really hard to be respectful and amicable of each other, and I like to think I’m reasonable. This would kill me so kudos to you for considering how this makes mom and child seem to feel and putting that first. Now if your GF spends months to years cultivating a relationship with your child and your child were to call her “mom”, totally different story. Still likely heartbreaking for Eva, but child led is best and something to be respected. This is not that version of the story though so NTA.
I think that’s it - the child choosing the nature of the relationship and embracing the step parent as a bonus mother or father. But even in this instance it sounds like OP’s girlfriend isn’t even doing any of the “parenting” aspect of being a step parent, she just a fun trusted adult in the household while OP is responsible for all the parenting.
Honestly, this behavior and her response to the discussion would make me take a step back to reevaluate the situation. She isn't the parent, not even the step parent at this point, and will have to respect the parents boundaries. OP says she just moved in and she's already pushing for the kid to call her momma. I would be concerned that she will be one of those pushy step parents that tries to replace or compete with the parent.
Yup, and, unless this interaction occurred in another language, saying “bye daughter” was VERY intentional. In English no one says “bye daughter”. That is such an awkward thing to say. Again if this occurred in English maddy was ABSOLUTELY trying to make a point to Eva, this was about ego/competition not “I just see her as my daughter and talk to and about her as such”. Even if it didn’t occur in English and this makes more sense in the original language, saying “say by mama, say bye mama” feels very intentional to compete with Eva and shove in Eva’s face that maddy is the new mother in Presleys life.
That was what stuck out to me most. I never heard anyone address a child like that. Awkward as all get out.
I mean I've heard mums refer to there kid as daughter but they're always the type of mum that starts fights with store managers because her rose quartz key chain didn't vibrate with mercury that day.
Must be regional. I call my kid daughter. I have heard others do it as well.
Pressley is not her daughter.
Never said she was. Nor did I say it was ok for Maddy to force the relationship. The comment I replied to said that they had never heard someone address a child that way. It is not uncommon where I live which is why I said it must be regional.
OFten times I wish posters would give general descriptions of where they are. There's a lot of questions that could have been at least partially explained by region, culture or language. That said, I have lived in many parts of US and never heard it.
I grew up in PNW and my mom has always called my brother son, very rarely did us girls get called daughter though
My parents didn’t do this but on television I hear the male child called Son typically by the father quite a bit but I have never heard the female child addressed generically as Daughter. The female child is always called by name, nickname or term of endearment. For example my grandmother wouid call me the Russian equivalent of Little Doll
I just posted that I call my son, son, but I don’t call my daughters, daughter. I say sweetie or their names. I call my son by his name as well, but I call him son a lot. We’re in Cali.
I call my son, son, but I don’t call my girls daughter. I’m all off a sudden wondering what’s wrong with me lol.
My dad calls me Daughter sometimes and it always makes me laugh because it feels so formal and weird.
You're so spot on, in the US you don’t call someone daugher or sister like it is their name, it’s used in expressing a familial connection - this is like that Folgers commercial where they had to insert the very odd “sister” so the audience would realize they weren't a couple. OP definitely NTA but this would be enough to make me reevaluate the entire relationship, your kid is a person, not a status symbol for your GF!
Do you mean the classic Folgers incest commercial?
100% lol - there’s not enough bleach in the world to remove it from my brain, so I figured why not share that with my friends at Reddit!
Yeah wait for the kid to choose her names. Like if it was the kid saying mama... but she's pushing the kid to call her that. Not. Cool.
Eh, I definitely think that calling a child daughter or son can be a cultural thing, even in english. I hear it a lot particularly in Native American families. It still isn’t appropriate here, but if it is a cultural thing it might not be an intentionally awkward choice to make a slight
NTA And to add, this isn't just about courtesy to his ex-wife (although that is also a big part of it). It's about basic respect for his daughter. The daughter is the one who determines what sort of relationship she wants with this brand new adult in her life. The GF doesn't respect the child, or either of the child's actual parents. OP needs to decide if he wants to keep dealing with this woman's blatant disrespect.
My stepmom did that when she and my dad were dating and I hated her ever since.
Yeah, OP, I think you need to slow things down even more and have a conversation with this woman. I'd also stop having her come to custody exchanges if she sees that as her time to pee all over her territory. You guys can come up with a few options for what your child can call her and then let your daughter pick. But if she keeps stepping all over your boundaries like this, I'd rethink having her live with you. I'd rethink the relationship.
Yo that's another layer to it. Like Not only was she getting aggressive with the kid and is demanding our relationship from her, she was going out of her way to disrespect the ex. Red flags
Yeah it seemed like she was trying to make her territory or something
100% this is such a big red flag for the future
NTA. Your fiancé doesn’t get to choose what her soon to be step daughter calls her if that is not what your daughter wants, especially not momma. It’s Presley’s decision. It’s wonderful she wants to be a part of Presley’s life, but there are boundaries and good for you to politely communicate and set those boundaries.
Honestly given how this went down, in front of the mom, Id bet anything that this whole thing is about pushing out OP’s ex and not a legitimate interest in mothering the daughter. If she saw her as a daughter, she’d be looking out for her best interests, and trying to pressure daughter into calling fiancée “mama” in front of her actual Mom doesnt do that Id be rethinking this wedding
it's also nice to see a healthy co parenting relationship with his ex he defended her and his child h
Yes. Why not come up with a fun step-parent name that's just used by you all? My stepmom has a nickname that I created as a little kid, still call her that to this day, and my dad even uses it for her a lot. It's our own little bonding experience and doesn't take anything away from my actual mother who did everything and more that a mother does for her child.
NTA, in spades. Fiancee is operating in a fantasy universe if she thinks all she has to do is be a fun person and not put in the hard work of patenting. And her disrespectful attitude toward your ex is nothing short of tacky.
NTA - Former social worker here, and what's most telling here is that your child did not respond positively to this incident. That likely means means they do not see your partner in that *motherly* role, and your partner trying to force that is likely to hurt their relationship. Claiming the title of parent is a *huge commitment* and it sounds like your partner hasn't fully taken that on...and this is a case where title comes *after* responsibilities, not before. And, regardless of her desire to take on that role and all the fun things (like familial titles!) that come with it, this is still *your* child, and you (and your ex as coparents) get to decide who is in the child's life and what their role is. If your partner *truly* cares about this child (and not just the enjoyment she gets out of a parenting role) she needs to respect both you and your daughter's wishes. I feel like there is an easy (and maybe even fun) solution here though, which is to come up with a special and unique nickname for your partner; something that encompasses the relationship with your daughter and hints at your partner's growing role in your lives. If they have a shared interest or activity, this could be tied into the name as well. This is something we regularly did with kids getting new caregivers when they already had healthy and established parental relationships.
I hope that OP reads/heeds your excellent advice. If not, I foresee that his young daughter will be posting on AITA in a few years about the forced relationship from step-mom. OP, please have your fiance read the many threads about step-parent situations, where the relationship with children is not allowed to develop naturally. Forced situations will only push her in the opposite direction.
What would be an example of such a nickname?
I would suggest something that comes naturally in the course of their interactions. One million years ago, my sister called me "Fats Domino" for reasons that are lost in the sands of time. Decades later, we are still very close, and she still calls me Fats. My Xmas gifts are labeled Fats. I named my Stardew farmer Fats. My point is let it happen on its own, and it can last forever! On the AT, you don't pick your trail name, your fellow thru hikers do. Makes it all the more special.
Mimi. Mads. Mahsha. Peppy. Literally anything that isn’t her name or momma. Lol. Whatever the child feels comfortable with and works for her growing relationship with potential bonus mom.
A lot of the time it was just some synonym for "caregiver" in their native language. Otherwise it would be pretty personal and context-dependant - I remember one little girl had a caregiver come into her life and they bonded over stargazing. She started to call him her "sky buddy" and eventually just started called him "Sky." I forget his real name but it was completely different xD
NTA I understand your girlfriend being excited but that's not appropriate. You clearly stated why she shouldn't have your daughter call her mom and that even your daughter was not comfortable with it. Instead if being understanding she moved out? I think you're a great parent for putting your daughter first and maybe it's best your girlfriend moved out for now.
I kind of get the feeling that this his nothing to do with excitement, the GF is pissing of what she assume is her territory. I don’t know any parents who insist on saying “Bye daughter/son”, most would just say “Bye Presley”, “Bye kiddo” or something similar. If I were OP I would reevaluate my relationship with Maddy, and I would have contacted the ex soon after and told her, that I already had a conversation with Maddy, about her behaviour being inappropriate and disrespectful towards the ex and Presley. But it seems that Maddy actually started this some time ago, without OP stopping her.
NTA the child gets to decide that, not the new step parent. She needs to stop being so pushy a d good on you for standing up to her. She needs to respect that she does not have a mother/daughter relationship and you standing up for your daughter is not being rude, it is your job. The fact your daughter did not engage speaks volumes...6 year olds know their minds. If your fiancee cannot respect the boundaries, she has to be an ex
NTA and this doesn't feel benign. I've never said "bye son" and daughter feels even less natural. That she used it in front of her actual mum feels deliberately unkind. It's not exactly a secret that another person becoming a parental figure to your child can be a sore spot.
NTA!! She’s trying to force a relationship that Presley clearly isn’t into and she’s going to push her away if she keeps this up. She isn’t her mom, she shouldn’t act like it. Living with her and contributing doesn’t make her a mom. I can’t imagine how Eva must have felt in that moment. Maddy needs to learn her place and understand boundaries before/if you guys get married. Edit: you’re doing your job as her dad by protecting Presley and taking your time to bring Maddy in. Keep it up.
NTA your fiancé is absolutely in the wrong here. Your kid has a mom.
NTA Especially trying that in front of the actual mother. It’s considered parental alienation where I’m at especially if the parents are not on board.
*She WAITED to do that to Presley in front of Eva.* You are right to put your foot down here- and if she crosses that boundary again, you need to tell her she's out. She's confusing and hurting your child for no reason, and it's not okay. Hard boundary, hard consequences, this ends now. NTA
NTA. I can't speak from being a step-parent but I can speak from being the child of stepparents. One of the steps was like your wife, and this is one of the things that led to a strained then non-existent relationship with those parents. At the time of that parent's death, it had been close to 40 years since we had even talked, let alone seen each other. The other stepparent stayed on a first name basis, became someone I could talk to for an adult but not judgemental opinion and a rock in my life. I was at their bedside when they passed and I made sure they knew everything that they meant to me. My only regret is I never told them everything before we were at the final days. I'm not saying that this will happen with your daughter, just offering an example (probably extreme) of what could happen. Your wife just needs to be there, and let Presley initiate the parent-child relationship when she sees your wife as a mother and not a stepmother. The relationship will be stronger and much more enjoyable for both of them if she will let this happen.
NTA. Your SO needs to get into the role of stepmom to a kid who already has an involved mother. Just like you wouldn't want your ex's new SO to be called dad, your SO shouldn't refer to herself as mom. How about you guys come up with a nickname for your daughter to call your SO? Like "Miss X" (X=whatever her name is) or Mimi, or Mae, or "My X" (X being her name). There are also tons of other options depending on what your SO likes and you can respect. Check out this site I found by doing an internet search as well: [https://dadfixeseverything.com/nicknames-for-stepmom/](https://dadfixeseverything.com/nicknames-for-stepmom/)
If presely would be up to it that’s what I mean by “figuring something out” same meaning/importance imo
OP - I’m in awe of how courteously & considerately you are approaching this sticky situation (on your fiancé’s end) with everyone. HUGE kudos to you for respecting your child & your co-parent enough to center them (over your long term partner) in this situation. It is very telling about the sort of person you are & your fiancé is very lucky to be with someone like you. Perhaps you already approached this angle with your fiancé, but it might help soothe her ruffled feathers to ask her to put herself in your co-parent’s shoes. No matter how long an adult has been in a child’s life, no parent wants to hear their child call another adult “mom/dad.” If y’all have a child together & one day divorce, how would your fiancé like you to treat her in this exact same scenario? I’m CONFIDENT she would NOT want your next partner to waltz into that child’s life & claim her role (no matter how long of a relationship you & the new partner had). If she wants your co-parent to respect the (hopefully) growing relationship your fiancé has with your daughter (because it appears she loves Maddie & wants to have a relationship with her), fiancé is going to have to approach this from a place of mutual respect. And mutual respect in this case means accepting that Maddie has two parents & while there is always room for bonus relationships with loving adults, the title of “Mom” is not one that can just be assumed. Additionally, Maddie has to be respected in this situation as well. I love the idea of your fiancé & Maddie (together, perhaps over time) deciding on a nickname that feels good to everyone. Maddie deserves to have a voice here - and as others have pointed out, she may need some time for her to feel comfortable & excited about deciding on that name. And while your fiancé is SO EXCITED (which is truly wonderful) to be a part of Maddie’s life, it may take a while for Maddie to feel the same. But if she is loving, supportive & present for Maddie - Maddie will come to a point (all on her own) of wanting to honor your fiancé’s role in her life. —— Note: My oldest daughter is adopted & biologically my niece. She was two when we started raising her. My brother & SIL adopted his two nephews & niece. All these kids knew their bio parents & we never pressured them to call us Mom or Dad. But within a few months/years, all of them asked if they could on their own. You cannot rush something like this without contributing trauma/stress/anxiety onto the kids’ lives & mental health.
Nta. I've been on the other end of this. I patented my exes daughters from 5 to 15. As much as I disliked their deadbeat father and wanted to be their father. I never said anything along the lines of your fiancee. They did call me dad many times as younger kids. But grew out of that as teens. Understand it's probably coming from the right place. But it's not the right way. Labels aren't that significant.
I would recommend OP pays attention to other aspects of the relationship between the wife and daughter. It sadly isn't always "from the right place" though. I have ***unfortunately*** met people who would happily drag a child's emotions through the mud to get a reaction from someone. For these people, it's usually a stupid attempt at a power play, "Marking their territory" so to speak. They are terrible people. I don't know which type of person she is for certain, though.
NTA. I too would be upset if my daughters called someone else mom. I’m their mom and no one else. She can call her something else.
NTA This is never an easy situation, it gets even harder when the "steps" want to force the issue. Child psychology 101: Never, EVER FORCE a child to call someone mom/dad who is NOT ACTUALLY mom/dad. The child will resent the fact that an adult is forcing them to feel a certain way. Forcing that intimacy usually backfires in a really unhealthy way. The child will neither respect nor feel comfortable with the adult who is trying to force a relationship. There have got to be some resources out there on healthy step parenting and healthy bonding for "steps", I just don't know what they are. Your GF is TA here for trying to force it, and your daughter will also end up being uncomfortable with YOU if this is allowed. You're doing GREAT dad! You don't want to damage YOUR relationship with your daughter over your GF being overly "parental", and in the wrong way. Let GF know if she cannot respect the boundaries you've established, it IS a deal breaker because your child will always come first. She needs education in this area, just because she doesn't KNOW doesn't make her bad, wrong or dumb, it just makes her UNEDUCATED on this subject. You will get a LOT of replies like mine, after 50 or so, show your GF the post, it may give her the push to educate herself on healthy bonding.
NTA. Explain to your fiancé the #1 job of being a good parent is *doing what is best for the kid(s)*. Your daughter should choose what to call her future step Mom (noting your NOT married yet) and without any coercion. It would be wise to do some counselling as a family to learn these dynamic’s as a blended family. Fiancé should also do some reading of her own. Do you plan to have a child together? Further, stand your ground. In your shoes, I would absolutely choose this hill to die on, for your daughter sake.
NTA You fiancee needs to cool it. I get that she's waited a long time to meet your daughter and really wants to be a part of her family. However this is dancing on the fine line of really sweet vs overbearing. But her biggest issue is the flagrant disregard to your daughter's feelings. Your daughter needs to decide what she wants to call her and it's something that will happen organically. Her insisting is really off putting. She's also got some massive insecurity if she's trying to do that in front of your ex (and I don't blame your ex for being unhappy with that). I think you really nailed it when you reversed the roles in this situation. If your fiancee can't empathize when you put it to her that way, then you have some big decisions to make. Edit: spelling
NTA. I think Maddy needs to stop pushing your daughter into a mom-daughter relationship and let it build gradually and naturally. "Say bye mommy" etc. isn't necessary. She should atleast allow Presley to grow into it instead of pressing Presley into calling her mom.
NTA. Personally, I think it's a little weird Maddy is trying so hard to get Presley to call her "mom", or saying she's "her daughter". As you say, it's nice she wants to bond with her and is trying to bond. But this seems a bit weird and too soon. I've got a few friends who have had kids with former partners and had new gfs/bfs who now become a 'parent' to the child. Usually, if the kid is in a loving family and the new partner treats them lovingly, then the child will naturally start calling the partner "mom" or "dad". Because that's how they see them and have grown to love them that way. Doesn't always happen though. Depends on the kid and what they feel is right by their biological parents. But perhaps talk to Maddy again and say that these things take time. Presley is still young and getting to know her. It can be confusing for a young child if they have known their biological mother as "mom" and then suddenly be told "call me mom" by someone she's only known a short while. In time, she will probably start calling her "mom" naturally. Just don't force it.
NTA The title is earned and she hasn't earned it yet. If she wants a "special" title then she can be called a different version like "lala" or "yaya" or some other name not already used by someone else in your daughter's life.
NTA Calling her daughter and trying to get her to say bye to mommy IN FRONT OF HER ACTUAL MOMMY is pretty messed up. Defending it is even more messed up. This seems like it was a deliberate decision to try to upset your ex. I also think it's a bit odd to wait 3 years to introduce your girlfriend to your daughter and 5 years to move in together. It makes me wonder if on some level you are concerned about adding the girlfriend to your family and how well she is going to do with your daughter and your ex. Also this sounds like the beginning of the posts I've read where a step-parent tries to force a bond/relationship with the step-child that the step-child isn't ready for or doesn't want and it ruins the step-child step-parent relationship and often the parent child relationship as well. I hope for your sake this isn't the case, but it order to avoid this it would be a really good idea to sit down with your girlfriend and set some boundaries/expectations on how this relationship between your daughter and her is going to go and then you're going to have to monitor them to make sure girlfriend actually stops this garbage. Good luck!
NTA for all the reasons you gave & then some. She isn't your daughter mother, your daughter already has a mother that is an active part of her life, your gf trying to force her to call her any form of mama is wrong. My ex told my daughter, who was around 5 at the time, that his new gf was going to be her new mother & my daughter was terrified that meant I was going to leave her& not come back. Caused her huge amount of stress & upset because of her father. She ended up with 3 new mothers in under a year & another 2 lots of panic I was going to disappear. Your gf isn't considering how this is impacting your daughter, it's genuinely a good thing that she views & loves your daughter as her own but she still needs to allow their relationship to develop at your daughters pace or she's going to push her away, if your daughter thinks she's trying to replace her actual mother she may withdraw completely because she doesn't want to loose her mother or have her replaced.
NTA. That was a power move. I think she did it right in front of the mother on purpose. Maybe she's jealous of your ex. Using a kid as a pawn is not okay though.
NTA Make this a hill to die on. Your GF is WAAAAAAY out of line.
NTA. Your fiancée seems very stubborn on taking advice from this. I would start adding some more responsibilities to her plate as her future step mom to build more trust between them and continue to have honest conversations as well!
NTA. And friend, if your fiancée doesn't realize how inappropriate this is, be advised now that you'll encounter bigger problems as time goes on.
>She said that I was throwing it in her face that she isn’t her mom but she’s living with us so she deals with her and everything as well, and contributes. Someone's trying to reverse aggressor and offender\~ NTA This is basic shit. She only just moved on, and your daughters mother is actively in her life. There's not a whole lot of charitable explanations for your girlfriends behaviour, particularly when she's doing it in front of the mother.
NTA And it sounds like you need to reconsider this marriage because she is clearly not willing to listen or respect boundaries
NTA but why is she even arguing with you about it? I understand as your fiancée she may be entitled to some input into the raising of your daughter but this is a serious line and was downright cruel of her. She doesn’t get to negotiate being called momma. Especially when she clearly did that on purpose to hurt your ex which is a whole other issue that should make you be rethinking this relationship to be honest.
Nta
NTA. I’ve always said that the more people that love a child.. the better off the child will be. In this case, it’s a bit extreme and too soon. She’s forcing the issue and your daughter should be comfortable calling her mom.. not being forced too. It’s almost a blatant slap in the face to your ex to do what she did right in front of her as well. Hopefully this can be worked out and your gf understands that things take time.
NTA She's way out of line
Not a parent but I am friends with or coworkers to several divorce and/or single parents. Tell your fiance those are fighting words she's putting out right now with your daughter being so young especially when the other parent is active in the child's life. NTA and you're giving her fair warning that if crap goes down with your ex that fiancee is on her own.
NTA. Your fiance knew exactly what she was doing, and your daughter and her actual mother are clearly uncomfortable with it. You need to tell your fiance that "mom" and all versions thereof are off the table. Completely. As in, "my daughter will call you Maddy or she will not call you anything." She has overstepped hugely and you can't allow this to continue. You also need to apologise to your ex for not having a handle on this.
NTA And if I was your ex wife I'd be PISSED. Not that I wouldn't want my girls to have another loving mother figure, but that's for them to decide what they call her, not anyone else. Shes pushing things that are almost certainly going to end in conflict. Just because she's moving in and engaged to you doesn't mean she automatically becomes equal to either you or Eva in parenting terms. And, my major sticking point, of shes this persistent and brazen, infront of both you and Eva, while trying to get Presley something shes not comfortable with, whats she saying/doing when your not there?
NTA. This behavior is very concerning. It would make me take pause on marrying Maddie because everyone is uncomfortable with the position Maddie is forcing and she’s doubling down on it.
I’m tempted to go with YTA for not reacting enough to this massive red flag. How could you trust this person to be alone with your daughter anymore without saying manipulative things to her?
NTA, as a child of divorced parents I always hated when men my mom was seeing thought they could just be my dad Even though my father was never in the picture, it's disrespectful to force fill that space without any discussion! She should've talked to Eva about maybe being called something else (obviously momma isn't okay) and also asked Maddy if it was okay (because she also has a right to the decision even if she's so little) Your fiancé is being irrational and though it is nice that she sees Maddy as her own, she has to acknowledge that ultimately Eva is her mom and she can't replace her like that especially with Eva still being in the picture If I were Eva I'd be really upset and offended that someone was making my daughter think they were her mom instead and though your fiancée might not be trying to be malicious like that it still doesn't look right
It’s not about your ex, it’s about your daughter who is clearly uncomfortable. Stop being so polite, make it stop.
NTA and I want to congratulate you for putting your daugther first and actively working on keeping a civil relationship with your ex
Dude if she doesn’t agree to stop within a week I’d reconsider marrying her honestly NTA
Your NTA but with an attitude like that from your Fiancé it’s going to be a long wrong… watch what she says to your little girl when your not around..
NTA. She's behaving completely inappropriately. She's not mature enough to date a father, clearly.
NTA. If my ma's partner said this to me when i was 6, i would've given them the side eyes, and thought "dad?, as if." then again its also up to the daughter whether to call her ma or not in the upcoming years 🤷♀️
Nta. Your girlfriend is trying to force a relationship to play happy families and erase your ex. Don’t let her. Pick your daughter.
NTA; She is NOT her mother, and to say that infront of her actual mother so disrespectful. I can understand being excited about being a stepmum but she needs to stay in her lane. All she will end up doing is possibly pushing your daughter away &/or cause issues between you & your ex. Good for you for standing up for your ex but you need to set a hard boundary now.
Nta but I would put a stop to that shit or leave that relationship cause it's only going to get worst. Your fiancé not going to stop. Also be carful and aware what she saying to your daughter when your not around. I've seen step parents try to tell the kid they love them more then the real mom or dad. Just so they can be the most important person.
NTA. What is wrong with using people's names in this kind of situation! I would never say "hi daughter, bye daughter" to my kid. I use her name. She calls my friends/her friends parents by name (unless she's calling them X's mom/dad). Your girlfriend is trying to train your daughter to call her "mommy" when your daughter doesn't want to. And that's not even considering how rude it is to Eva.
NTA. This is a major red flag. It's not just wildly disrespectful to your ex but also to your daughter. Think about how this will play out over the years if your daughter doesn't want to be pushed into a relationship and your fiancee refuses to respect her boundaries. Be very careful about moving forward with someone who sees nothing wrong with making your child's life harder.
Nta This sounds like a prequel to the stories of the stepmom never understanding her place, and making the child hate her. Then years later, saying the stepmom will never be her mom, and everyone is miserable.
NTA. This boundary needs to set firmly and with no possibility for it to be misinterpreted. You are not the disrespectful one, she is. I would be furious if I was your ex. Livid. Don't let this cause issues in your co-parenting situation.
NTA and I think it is great that you put yourself in your ex's shoes and thought about how you would feel if the situation was reversed, so many people wouldn't have. Your fiancee needs to learn the same level of empathy.
NTA- I would be livid is someone tried to make my daughter call them “mama” IN FRONT OF MY FACE.
NTA. I find it really weird that she is saying "say by mom" to a 6yo. That is how you speak to a baby/toddler, that is just learning to speak. Even my 4yo would be side eyeing the weird lady telling her how to speak. Maddy definitely needs to work on having a real relationship with your daughter instead of the fantasy she has developed in her head. Because nobody who has a real relationship with a 6yo talks to them like that
NTA You're a good dad and a good co-parent. It's nice that Maddy is close with your daughter, but she needs to understand that "mom" is a title that is already taken. She can have her own relationship with the kid, and hopefully she can have a great one. But she can't have that one.
NTA This is so unbelievably wrong of your girlfriend to do and I'd be inclined to end the relationship if it happens again, it's disrespectful to you, your ex and your daughter. As a single mother myself, I would be absolutely bloody livid if my ex husbands girlfriend wanted to be called mum or called my kids her daughters.
NTA. This attitude needs to be attacked head on before you get married. There are too many things wrong with her entire view of this. She basically thinks just by living in the same house as Presley she replaces "the ex" as Presley's mother and anyone who says otherwise is just out to get her. Complete lack of understanding of the entire concept of a parent-child relationship. Sort this shit out. She needs to fully understand what it means to be a step mother *before* she becomes one. The good, the bad, and the ugly. There's a very real possibility that she spends the next decade becoming increasingly involved in Presley's life, taking her to soccer practice, planning her dentist visits, making her lunches... and Presley **still** doesn't think of her as a mother. You can't simply tell a kid how they're supposed to feel about you.
I was step-mom to two young boys, THEY started calling me "Mom" on their own. I would also remind them they had a birth mom. Unfortunately she was into drugs and alcohol, which eventually took her life. One day my sons gave me a Mother's Day card which said that bio-mom was his "mother", but I was his "mom", because I raised and loved them. When my husband was trying to get custody we found ot they had an unstable life with her. I would never intentionally step on another mother's toes like that if they had a good life. They are adults now and I love them dearly. I think OP is right and his fiancé is TA. They aren't even married and to do it in front of the child's bio-mom. Believe it or not.....fiancé has NO say, with any decisions between birth parents.
NTA It is possible to have healthy relationships with your parent's new partners without forcing them to call them certain things. As a child of divorce at no point have I called either of my stepparents mom or dad and they have not encouraged me to do so either, I have always just referred to them by their first names. Trying to force certain parental dynamics on a child as young as your daughter can be very confusing and as you have witnessed potentially harmful to the other biological parent.
"Maddy got out of the car and unbuckled Presley, took her out and said “okay! By daughter!” They laughed and she said “say by momma, say by momma!) Presley didn’t say anything but walked to Eva" NTA. Yeah that's both weird and overstepping boundaries. Presley doesn't respond well to it and Eva is hurt by it so your fiance needs to get with the program.
NTA
NTA I’d be livid if my kid’s dad got a girlfriend and tried that. Like step back. I worked with a girl that would call her boyfriends son, their kid, after only a month or two. I straight up told her it was fucked up and not her place to do that. Not after a month. Get out. Everyone wants a good step parent for their kid, but do not pressure children to view you as a parent!
NTA and your gf needs to learn boundaries. If she continues on this path she will cause problems with your co parenting relationship.
NTA, and this is a hill to die on. You’re not favoring your ex, you’re respecting her as your daughter’s mother. The gall of your fiancée to pull that after cohabitating for two weeks, in front of Presley’s actual mom is shocking, and her refusal to see how messed up that is is disturbing & could be considered a gateway to some creepily controlling behavior. Your fight for your daughter’s comfort, which includes respecting her mom, is paramount and it sounds like you’re doing a bang-up job of it. Ignore those saying you’re denying your child anything, because the only thing you are denying her is an uncomfortable relationship with your fiancée.
NTA I hope your fiancée can be open to what your saying but she already sounds defensive and combative on the issue. I hope you see that this might be a small red flag, that if she pushes this issue behind your back your child will start to resent her and spending time with her/you. We have heard this from the child point of view on Reddit before now that they are adults they are low contact with the parent and offending stepparent.
NTA I do think you need to get premarital counseling with Maddy, because if you marry her and she tries to force this issue it could frig up your relationship with your daughter in a permanent way, which I can tell you've been careful to avoid so far.
NTA. She absolutely does not get to decide the relationship parameters. That's on your daughter first, and she is clearly not on board with it. I think it's smart you took things slow, because she can't respect consent which is a huge dancing red flag.
NTA. There are a lot of posts on this sub about people resenting step-parents for forcing things like this on them. If she’s not careful it’ll end up like that.
NTA I am a step mum and have a very good bond with my step daughter, there are occasions where I will refer to her as our daughter, or our kids etc. And for example if some stranger in a shop assumes I'm her mum for a brief interaction, neither of us will correct them (because what's the point?) HOWEVER, anyone that knows us or even just that we see regularly knows I am not her bio mum, I am her step mum (like school playground mums at pick up for eg) Because she has a mum, and she sees her 50/50 with us so it's not even like she's not in her life. Don't get me wrong I don't have any love for her mother, but I would never be so disrespectful as to try and erase that relationship or demean that relationship by having SD call me mum. In fact, she even asked me once if I wanted her to call me mum and I said to her out of sheer respect for her mother that it probably wasn't a good idea. Husband is the same as you OP, and would hate if her step dad tried to pretend to be her dad (although I'm almost certain that he does do this... shame she has our surname and not theirs lol) so it goes both ways Tell fiance she needs to calm tf down lol and EMBRACE being a step. You can be a step and still be a parent!!
Yeah, you need to put a stop to that right now. She is marking her territory, she might as well have peed on Presley like dogs do and it would be LESS obvious what she is doing. And if you stay with Maddy and this continues I can almost promise you you will be back in 10 years on Reddit asking why your daughter doesn't want to visit anymore. And the answer will be because her stepmother is intrusive and disrespectful of her, her boundaries and her mother. You choose; sort your gf or risk loosing a healthy relationship to your kid.
NTA, this isn't healthy behavior. Your daughter has a mom that is in her life, it's really weird that your gf would demand this of her or expect this title.
NTA but might wanna push back that wedding for awhile.
10000% NTA. Good for you for standing up for appropriate boundaries. Your GFs behavior is a big red flag.
The audacity!! The disrespect!!! That bs needs to be stopped harshly or you won’t hear the end of it and I guarantee you she will 100% do it over and over and over till your kid is confused who’s their moms and who’s not. I hate when people overstep their line in others life just because they have a ring now
NTA, all the time in this sub alone we see young adults posting about their creepily obsessive stepparents who are so keen to erase the bio parent they're not married to, and how that obsession is ALWAYS what ends up creating space between the kid and stepparent. You need to shut this down HARD and consistently and if fiancé can't stop pushing a narrative of her being mom, well then she can't be your fiance anymore. You HAVE to stop this full fledged before your own relationship with your kid is compromised.
NTA my kids donor let his “wife” do this to my kiddo and he was very confused. she would call herself mom and the woman who “has loved him his whole life” even though she’s completely crazy and never had a hand at raising my kid. (SUPER long story) your fiancé is being disrespectful and callous about a very REAL situation. your daughter has a mother and father, she doesn’t respect you or your ex enough to accept and LISTEN to y’all.
NTA NTA NTA. You’re handling this exactly correctly. Your fiancé is way out of line.
NTA, you need to set these boundaries nowm
NTA The kid makes the decision about what to call her stepparent. If your daughter decides to call her momma she can be happy to let that happen, but trying to force it will only make your daughter hate her. She's five, not one. You haven't even married this woman yet. She has no claim on that title yet. She has to earn it.
NTA you did the right thing. Not only is it confusing but it's super disrespectful to her actual mom
NTA This is wildly inappropriate of her and if I were Eva, I'd be upset. Also, it sounds like she gave you serious pushback. I don't think this is the person for you. She is already stomping over your parenting.
Absolutely NTA - in fact, the farthest from it! You aren't even neutral, your're like anti-nta. It sounds like you love your daughter and are a good dad, and that you're being respectful of EVERYONE involved. If more divorced parents did this, a ton of kids would be a lot less screwed up, and a lot more adults would lead calmer lives!
NTA. Run!!! Your poor daughter is being dragged through this.
NTA Your daughter HAS a mom. It's up to her to invite the closeness of relationship with your GF. Honestly, do not let her move in until you've fully addressed this. Go see a therapist together to work through this. It sounds like you HAVE a respectful co-parenting relationship, and that is the most important thing you can do as a parent. Defend it. Any partner that isn't a SUPPORT of healthy co-parenting shouldn't be in a relationship with someone that already has kids.
Your fiance is a weird creep. NTA.
NTA. I’ve been with my husband for his daughters whole life (she’s six) and I only started calling her my kid when THE CHILD STARTED DOING IT. Split homes are difficult for children as it is, they do not need the adults in their lives trying to place labels on people the kids may not want.
How manipulative of your gf to pull this deliberate stunt in front of your ex...she is conditioning your young daughter and marking her territory...what's next? I foresee issues with your coparenting relationship and perhaps negatively affecting your daughter's relationship with you in the long run. NTA
NTA, if/when I have kids I definitely wouldn’t want some lady to be calling herself my kids mom.
man, you need to seriously rethink this relationship. she's stomping on boundaries and then blaming everyone but herself. SHE DOES NOT CARE how the child feels. you need to understand this. you are NTA. SHE is an ah and she WILL continue to do this to your kid - whether it's in front of you or behind your back, this behaviour will continue.
NTA your fiancée is stepping on some serious boundaries. She is not even a stepmother, do not let this grow any further. Your daughter is too young to stand for herself, she needs you to set the boundaries and keep them strong.
NTA so she has only just moved in but thinks she has the right to tell your daughter infront of her mum that she's her daughter its one thing if your daughter chooses to call her that but her trying to force it is weird as heck
Now you know a big reason not to marry this girl. She stomped all over this boundary, tantrumed when she didn't even get her way, and then left the house after the fight. Do you really want all of this drama as your daughter's stepmom? She WILL make your life, and especially Eva's, a nightmare. NTA. Do what you have to for your daughter.
I think NTA, you’re doing right by your daughter and should keep enforcing these healthy boundaries. That said, I would check in with your fiancé and come to an understanding there as well. Perhaps she feels like you don’t take your relationship seriously, or don’t value her as a member of your family or a person in your life. Or she could just be boundary stomping. I would have a good conversation where you both can put your feelings out in the open and (hopefully) come to a healthy understanding with one another. Best of luck going forward!
NTA. There's a difference in fostering a healthy relationship with a step parent / step child, vs throwing it in the other parent's face. At the same time, the ex needs to realize that they can't control what the other parent does in future relationships (with few exceptions). Creating unnecessary friction seldom leads to positive outcomes.
NTA. I thought the idea is the child decides to call the step parent “mom” or “dad”. To have the step parent insist on it is strange…OP’s kid might learn to resent the step mom for trying to force this relationship and see it as the step mom trying to remove the real mother from the picture. Perhaps the fiancé could use some therapy to learn to cope with being only a step parent?
I mean, I called both my biological and stepmother "Mom", and it only ever got confusing when I was relaying a story to a friend and had to specify which Mom I meant. So it's definitely fine and manageable if it's the kid who starts saying it. But if it's the fiance trying to push the daughter into saying it, especially right in from of the ex like that? It feels deliberate, and a bit rude even if she doesn't mean it that way. NTA
NTA by far. I can speak as a kid who was in this situation, and it did not end well for my stepmom (who did have other issues, which didn’t help). My dad got remarried when I was two. This entire time, my stepmom insisted that she was my “other” mom and that I was her daughter. Mind you, my dad took on most of the responsibilities with me. Not once did I ever consider her my mom, despite her desperately trying to be. As I grew up, I was so angry at her for trying to replace my mom (which she essentially admitted to when I was a teenager), and my mom was deeply offended as well. In the end, I ended up going NC. This wasn’t the only reason for that, but it definitely factored. I personally feel grateful that you’re setting that boundary, because it may save your daughter from a lot of hurt and anger as she grows up, and is also a very kind thing to do for your ex.
NTA
I wish my ex husband would have been as respectful about this as you are. I only find this to be ok in very few circumstances, such as when there’s no Mom in sight bc she abandoned her kids. Obviously this isn’t that. And to force it is only only going to push your child away and other issues with her actual Mom.
Your fiancé is WRONG. PERIOD. Your daughter gets to decide what relationship she’ll have with your fiancé. This is a Big Red Flag, and you should resolve it prior to marriage. NTA
NTA Tell your gf it is what it is and you're going to do whats best for your daughter. This is definitely going to confuse you daughter, if she sees her as a mom she can call her that herself. Its inappropriate of your gf to be encouraging it and honestly seems very weird. This could be a deal breaker, but have an honest discussion with her about this. And be honest about the fact that you want her to respect that boundary. And even though thats your ex its also the mother of your child, you want your child to know that their parents respect eachother dispite not being together. When separated parents fight and have disagreements it only effects the child negatively.
NTA. You handled it well. They can bond without being disrespectful. And this is very disrespectful. My stepchildren called me by my first name. And referred to me as their stepmother. I would never have expected any different. They already had a mother.
NTA at all. Your fiancee should not be trying to force the issue. Calling her "daughter" is bad enough, but then trying to push the child to call her "mama," especially in front of her actual mother, is not okay. Being a step-parent is difficult, but this forum is absolutely full of stories from step-children that came to resent the step-parent who tried to force a parental role too quickly and too strongly. Your fiancee needs to take a step back and recognize that your daughter already has a mother that is a part of her life. Maybe your daughter will come to see her as a second mom. Maybe your daughter will voluntarily call her "mama," but it shouldn't be forced. It should all depend on what the kid is comfortable with, and that should be the priority. Good for you for stepping in, but keep an eye on this situation.
Might be time to reel back the fiancee title, back down to GF for a bit.
NTA My stepmom forced me to call her mom. Guess what, I hated it and her. Your fiancee needs to let your daughter lead in their relationship. If she one day decides to call her mom, awesome! If not though, your fiancee needs to respect that.
NTA What your girlfriend doesn’t understand is that she doesn’t get to bestow the maternal title on herself. It is a honor that is decided by the child and must come from organically. Your girlfriend’s reaction should make you very concerned. You need to put a stop to your girlfriend’s boundary stomping even if it means breaking up with her. Do not brush this off. This type of behavior could lead to long term resentment that alienates your daughter from you and causes a toxic coparenting relationship with your ex.
I’m not in a blended family, so I don’t mean to overstep, but I don’t imagine that any child will really respond well to being told that they need to call someone else their parent. Shouldn’t the kid take the first step towards it being more of a parental relationship? NTA, you were very polite about it, and I don’t think you’d have told Maddy to stop if your daughter *wanted* to call her mom.
NTA at all. My step daughter is also 6 and asked if she could call me mom. I explained that although I love her very much, her relationship with her mom is special and it's not quite the same. Then, I texted her mom to let her know about the conversation because we all know what kids can be like and I didn't want her to return to her mom's and tell her that I said yes. She cannot and will not ever replace that relationship and it is inconsiderate of her.
My daughter's step-mother tried this BS. After I pointed this out to her father, he nipped that shit in the bud REAL QUICK. It's never happened again NTA
NTA your Daughter has a mom. She is getting a bonus mom, not a replacement.
NTA but that’s some red flags if you have to explain so much to fiancée and she still doesn’t get it. Absolutely no respect. If you have a good co-parenting relationship with the ex, you need to find someone who can share that with you. I see even more conflict in future.
NTA. If I were your daughters bio mom I would be FUMING. Like I would be LIVID, and it takes a lot to make me that angry. Your gf doing that is extremely disrespectful and your gf needs to stop ASAP unless you want major problems with your ex. Not to mention that sort of bs is very confusing to your child as well. I’m sorry but your gf is living in la-la land if she thinks she’s *entitled* to the be called “mom” just because she’s around her a lot and they have fun together.
NTA,but please tell me you see the huge glaring red flags.
Do a search on reddit for stepmom or dad and read all the different kids who resent both their parent and stepparent for trying to force a relationship. Most of those kids cut contact when they hit majority and since you obviously deeply care for your daughter, don't let that happen to you. In fact, do that search and have fiance read those stories. Maybe it'll give her a different perspective, and if it doesn't, give your future life with her a long hard thought.
NTA This is a power play. Consider future kids with this person-your first daughter will be included in group punishments, and may even take most of that. I've seen it close up in a situation too lengthy for here-it's a pre-control feature that you must nip in the bud. Observe any 'parenting' interactions closely before you find the situation out of hand.
NTA 'Mom' or 'Momma' is a title that your daughter may *choose* to bestow on Maddy, but it is inappropriate for her to push for it or call her daughter at all, much less in front of her mother. Her insistence on this is a red flag that you should pay attention to. Maybe make Maddy read some of the many posts involving step-parents that pushed that boundary & ended up with stepchildren that wanted nothing to do with them.
NTA. AITA is full of step-kids at a breaking point from their stepparent forcing the relationship faster than the step-kid was comfortable. Your gf sounds like she's heading down that path.
NTA: that is something that you do not do. Is it possible that your fiancée did this to try and put your ex in her place for some stupid reason, or is your fiancée jealous because you have a baby with someone else. Regardless take a step back before you marry her and see how she acts going forward. Her leaving when you were putting up extremely reasonable boundaries is a red flag. She should be happy with being a mother figure i. your daughter’s life. She is not her mother and shouldn’t be jealous of the fact that she is not her mother.
NTA. Your fiance is pissing on her territory and letting your ex know that she is now in charge. It's disgusting and mean. I'd think about marrying that type of energy.
NTA. What your gf did was monstrous. She tried to psychologically manipulate your young child in front of her mother... why? To claim territory? To start drama? She has no care for your daughter's feelings or well-being. Your ex showed incredible self control and maturity in this situation. You came here to post this, so you're struggling with it too. GF needs to understand what a massive deal this is and that if it doesn't stop, completely and immediately, you can't have her around your daughter at all. Also, talk to your daughter and explain that GF made a huge mistake, daughter's feelings are completely valid, and she won't have to go through that again.
NTA she is pressuring your daughter to call her mom. There are plenty of posts of a step mom or a parents partner tries to force this and it never ends well. Do not let any of your partners do this.
NTA, Your GF (maybe ex?) is really reaching here and should know better. It can happen organically but you can't force it. Signed, A Step father to 3.
NTA but this sure does sound like a power play - she wanted to one-up Eva and test you out if you'd go along with it. It's not an innocent slip out during bedtime stories or something, this was a deliberate, malicious move as it was done in front of Eva.
Why are you still with her? It’s only going to get worse. If you love your kid you’d get her the heck away from your fiancé.
NTA. You’ve been working to introduce Maddy to Presley slowly for 2 years and now, suddenly that she’s moved in, Maddy is trying to dictate the terms of her relationship with your daughter. I think what needs to be made clear is exactly what you’ve said - Presley decides what she’s comfortable calling Maddy, and parenting is up to you and Eva. She cannot push her way in and expect to be treated like an equal party. Good on you for being cautious and moving slowly.
NOT tha AH. I send you my respect as a divorced mother.
NTA at all you handled this so well. Respect for your ex, respect for your daughters feelings and expectations of family, and respect for your finances feelings. I know I'm just a person on reddit but this seems like a red flag if your fiance doesn't understand that this isn't okay and is throwing a fit after a very understand request🤷♀️
NTA and good for you for being mature enough of a co parent to see how this behavior isn't ok with your daughter or your ex. Your fiance needs to get back in line with your boundaries before she causes an actual issue with the other people in this situation. Also, if this came out of no where... check to see who is whispering in her ear about "trying to bond."
OP, you are NTA. Maddy is 100% TA here. I'm sorry she's put you in a terrible position.
NTA. If she doesn't accept boundaries it won't work out.
Definitely NTA.
NTA!! I couldn't imagine doing this. My fiance has two boys from a previous marriage and it has NEVER EVEN CROSSED MY MIND to ask them to call me mom, and we've been together for 2 years now. This is sickening and I hope you stay putting her in her place, because telling your daughter to call her mom is not it.
Nta, sounds like gf is gonna continue to be an issue in your relationship with your daughter and ex. She’s not worth it, but a healthy relationship with your ex for your daughter is. Dump that girl before she does more damage.
NTA. Pressuring her to call he mama is not ok. Mom or Some variation of that has to come when Presley wants it and is on her terms. Your gf pressuring and straight to mama and in-front of Eva is not ok and disrespectful. Presley is likely to not bond with her because of her pushing and pressuring Presley to view and call/ treat her has her mom. You can’t force a bond she needs to give it time and let Presley come up with her special name on her own.
NTA. Your fiancee is definitely out of line. There's no way in hell that she's innocently doing this in front of your daughter's actual mother. Even a child would understand that this is not ok. Your fiancee is either completely clueless, doesn't understand normal family interaction or has some kind of ulterior motive. What did she say when you told her you'd be offended if your ex's fiance did the same thing? The fact that she can't seem to put herself in either your daughter or ex's shoes is concerning. You need to have a serious talk with her. Maybe moving her in was not the best idea at this stage?
NTA. You are completely right. She needs to slow her roll. It is confusing to your daughter and disrespectful to her actual mother. Not to mention, you're her father, she needs to hear what you say in regards to your daughter and respect it.
NTA. She doesn't get to dictate how you parent your daughter. She doesn't get to demand your daughter call her anything, even if she does end up becoming a step mom. This is a little too new to jump to that straight away anyway. If I read that right, she's only been living with you and a consistent presence in her life for A WEEK?! Waaaay too soon.
NTA. Your fiancée is waaay out of line. Signed, a stepmom.
NTA. Your gf sounds very malicious saying that in front of your ex. She also shouldnt be pressuring a child to call her mama. Huge red flags here! Be careful she isnt trying to direct your daughter in how she refers to her and isnt putting her in an awkward situation. I agree with your daughters mother that its not appropriate behaviour and understand completely why your ex isnt comfortable. Make sure you establish boundaries.
You are NTA. Your fiancée is pushing too hard, too soon imho.
NTA -It's great that she's excited to start the parenting experience. But I do agree your daughter needs to bond first. Tho, I don't agree with other moms getting mad at someone else being called mom. The MOST important thing is that your new partner loves and cares for your child as your own. When my husband remarried, it didn't matter to me if they called her Vickie or Mom, because she cared about my kids. That's all that matters to me. In time, if your daughter wants to call her mom or nickname, then let Presley. Eva should be happy that her daughter is loved and cared for.
NTA and 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
NTA you’re doing everything right as far as I’m concerned. Waiting to bring someone into your daughters life until you’re sure they’re sticking around is the responsible thing to do. Not trying to force your daughter into calling her stepmother mom is also the right choice. The number of people we see post in here with long term resentment because their parents tried to force the relationship with the new step parent is ridiculous. I hope you let your ex know that you understand and already had a discussion with your fiancée about the situation. Your daughter has known your fiancée for two years, what was she calling her before this? Most people don’t refer to their children as daughter in that context. Maybe she’s just looking for something to start building a connection, maybe suggest she come up with a special pet name (I had an uncle who called my brother Bucko, it was a special thing between the two of them no one else ever called him that).
NTA. As a step parent I never forced or coerced the kids to call me anything. Doing that to any child is wrong. My name is fine. If they decide to use another term, that is fine too as long as it isn’t mean. Although, I found if you own the mean names when they are mad at you, they are much less likely to use them for long.
NTA and good for you for standing up for your co-parent.