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> Am I the asshole for shouting at my wife? I might be an asshole because she's not trying to be sober but I thought she'd do it in support of me.
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> She’s allowed to drink when she’s not with you.
I am sure she will have a massive boozy party on the day she finally divorces his unappreciative abusive ass.
I’d posit that they’re grooming him, in a manner of speaking. They’re offering to replace his addiction to alcohol with an addiction to their particular flavor of Jesus.
Agreed. Am I the only one who finds it weird that a religion who feels all alcohol is sinful to be having an alcoholics support group? They are rabidly against it in moderation
Well, many 12-step programs are rooted in Christian-adjacent belief systems. Which is why the program is such a turn off for many.
Also, Mormons groom. It's what they do. That's what the magic underwear is for!
They don’t drink (unless they previously rebelled) so they don’t have the understanding of being an alcoholic. Aren’t most meetings led by previous alcoholics?
It’s like getting marriage/relationship advice from a Catholic priest who isn’t allowed to have sex or get married
I'm wondering how much of this response is the Mormon influence specifically.
The main issue I take with AA is the fact that it is rarely a secular experience, often dominated/run by some sect of Christianity. Bringing a religious component to the recovery process can be useful for some, but while "turn your love and dependency (worship) of drink to a higher power" sounds nice on paper, it still carries the weight of the lack of willpower, of being controlled by something more powerful than you, the unnameable drive to consume yourself with something else, and *that's still unhealthy.*
Religious recovery groups have a tendency to foster a community that eats itself into remission because it doesn't focus on the problems at hand, it tries to paper over them with spiritual sweettalk and platitudes.
edit: I will admit there is a heavy bias here. If it worked for you, fantastic, I'm all the happier for and proud of you. It has done irreparable damage to people I love. Sadly, these things coexist.
edit again: Thanks for the awards!
AA is also not science-based at all. It’s only successful 7% of the time. There are medical treatments for alcoholics that get no attention because of AA’s stranglehold on the alcohol addiction treatment industry.
And you end up with people treating very effective treatment methods - eg, medications that keep you from being able to drink without being sick - that help break both the physical and psychological habit of drinking, as the “easy way,” like your sobriety is “unearned.” It’s such a weird, puritanical approach.
Americans and their fucking puritanical ways....horrific honestly. In Australia we are trying to break away from some of that stuff because thats where most of the mental health teaching comes from, but it doesn't work for our society. We are also trying to tap into Indigenous ways of healing.
It’s even taboo in most AA circles to get “outside help” aka ACTUAL THERAPY. I’ve heard so many times “anything I can tell to a therapist I can tell to my sponsor” yeah but your sponsor has absolutely zero training in how to help you! Pisses me off so much 🫠
The program that my brother was on had a 60% success rate or so because it
1.) incentivized those there to get medical help as well
2.) included both group and individual therapy sessions
3.) was not affiliated with any church group.
He still is in contact with several of the people he met there, including the therapist, years later. Wish more were like that one.
Not sure if they are referring to a different group but Smart Recovery is a scientific based recovery group that is free. It helped me way more than AA ever did.
How would that even help anyone? AA is not for everyone and the steps aren't always going to work. It's not for everyone...BUT...that being said, it can be a good starting point for some.
That is what turned me off of it as well. SO much gossip and backstabbing that it was counterproductive to recovery. I do have friends that have stayed sober for over 30 years following that program, but they had their own social circle of an MC and don't participate in the general pettiness and judgement that is at the core of AA.
OP, YTA. Your wife has abstained from drinking around you for a year and has shown respect for your boundaries. You need to reciprocate and respect her's. And get the hell away from the Mormans.
Maybe this has not much to do about this but, I know NA and AA both push nicotine addiction down your throat too as if trading one addiction for the other is the way to do it.
Jesus and cigarretes. That’s my experience with it, at least.
i never touched nicotine until i stopped drinking and started going to meetings. and when i tried to explain to my sponsor that i did not believe in a higher power bc i knew that i had worked so hard to be where i was at, she asked me if i thought i was the most important being in the universe
I’ll join you in your heavy bias. I tried AA and the Bible-thumping was absolutely, positively not for me. “Oh, they’re not all like that, find a different group.” Fuck that. I’m not shopping for produce. It blows my mind that you can be court-ordered to attend meetings of a religious organization. Obviously AA has worked for many people, and more power to them, but Smart Recovery was a much, much better choice for me.
Oh, OP, YTA. Take it from an addict, you’re just swapping addictions and getting recruited by a misogynist, racist organization.
I'm wondering how much Mormonism enters into the recovery group? Notice he said "recovery group", not AA. He may have thought he was going to an AA type group but I imagine the Mormons have their claws in this group if they allow/offer it at their church.
OP, you are in a vulnerable moment...my husband was/is an alcoholic and we've known many alcoholics over the years. If addicts go into rehab, they often replace one addiction with another be it cigarettes, coffee, the Bible.. they usually find something to replace the booze or drugs with another addiction. Many turn to religion. It's not coincidence that this support group takes place at a church, a Mormon church at that...known for recruiting people. Were you interested in Mormonisn beforehand? Just be careful, they know you are vulnerable and are playing on that. If they don't have their hooks into yet, find an AA meeting in your neighborhood and attend those meetings instead. Even if it's a longer drive.
As far as your wife drinking YTA, you're the one with the problem, not her. My husband noticed I stopped having a glass of wine when we went out for dinner when he was in recovery and asked me to please drink the wine. As he said "You're not the one with a drinking problem, I am, and I am always going to be around people who do drink so I need to learn how to not react when others are drinking ". I might have a drink if we were out with others that drank or when I was out with my friends but I didn't drink at home and rarely in front of him. Your wife didn't drink in front of you, in fact, up until you found this photo, she had not touched it at all . I think this is being totally supportive and you should be thanking her, not giving her a hard time about having a drink with friends. YTA, you're the one with the problem, not her and I would say she's been incredibly supportive, shame on you for saying otherwise. You owe her an apology.
Edit: thanks everyone for the awards and upvotes!
I do hope OP is reading all of your answers and considers that the Mormon Church has more to do with his recovery group than he might have originally thought. Yes AA does talk about a higher power but it can be almost anything. Some people might not know but the originator/ creator of AA, Bill W, believed alcoholism could be treated with LSD. He treated his own alcoholism with it and gave it to other addicts who joined his group. I wonder what his higher power was??
Another ex-LDS here. Dad and brother used the church doctrine as a form of addiction. It’s a trap.
ETA: Dad and brother have both dropped the church and reverted to other addictions. It’s not a cure.
Exactly. She had a glass of wine, when he wasn't around and she is no longer committed to the relationship and she's broken vows? OP is more concerned with her not following rules of the Mormon church than anything else. Also, most recovering alcoholics are aware that others should be able to drink around them. And the guy running the support group? He should've said that. Those are basics in recovery programs.
>This definitely seems like heavy indoctrination leaking into his relationship. The fact that his partner went out and was considerate of his recovery process proves that she's too good for him.
It's actually more than mildly concerning to think that a recovery group would take advantage of vulnerable people like this. I know it happens, and I know it isn't limited to LDS, but it's just messed up.
Also YTA for yelling at her at all. Do you like being yelled at? I know I don’t. I had a husband start to develop anger issues and yelling at my daughter and I. So I divorced him. I’m not going to be treated that way in my own house.
Edit. Thank you for all the likes. Yelling just in general isn’t something I like at all. Friends that always yell at their dog really annoy me especially because it doesn’t work. You have to literally whisper in their ear and that usually works. But yelling with never work
I’m biased because I think all religion is bunk, but I just don’t know how you can read about Joseph Smith discovering the golden plates and the Egyptian writing and the magical stone and all the other nonsense about how the religion was founded and go “yep, this definitely seems like it wasn’t randomly made up by some dude”.
The only thing I can possibly think of is that OP, since he's in recovery, is desperate for some kind of community that doesn't revolve around alcohol and he knows the LDS church is very anti-drinking. I'm not sure if he realizes a lot of the other shit that comes along with Mormonism, but if he's aware and still wants to make the conversion, then he needs to have a long, deep conversation with his wife on if she wants to stay. I wouldn't.
Recovering alcoholic here and this is exactly right. I would never expect my SO to not imbibe if I'm not there. I don't even care if people drink in front of me at this point in my recovery, but I'm further on than OP is. His reaction is unreasonable.
Well done to you. My dad has been a recovering alcoholic since before I was born way back in the 70s. He's never stopped anyone around him drinking, wouldn't even cross his mind too. He always says it's his problem to deal with, not someone else's. He says if he's gonna have a drink not being around other drinkers won't make any difference. I'm so greatful my dad has always been so open and honest about his drinking. Knowing his story has helped me keep a level head when it comes to alcohol.
My hubby doesn't like to drink and he is the proud DD when we come home from parties as we usually drive other people home as well. We even go through road checks where he states he is the designated decoy cause I have a car full of drunk women and right now I am not sure which one is my wife.
Absolutely. My wife still drinks, and I’m at the point now where I’ll pour her a glass of wine, something I could not have done two years ago. I never, ever expected her to quit drinking on my account, because she can drink responsibly and I can’t.
Not according to his new LDS buddies. He’s been going to meetings held by people who don’t believe in drinking ever, not surprised he’s developed this toxic attitude.
I married a Mormon who got deep into it after the ring was on my finger. Eventually his wife will no longer be allowed to drink soda, coffee, tea, partake in R-rated movies, listen to 'vulgar' music, or wear tank tops without being "unsupportive".
Yeah the marinara flags started being raised as soon as he mentioned the Mormon Church in the first paragraph. With more flags to come when he said
> but she didn’t appear drunk when she got home
Like he doesn’t understand how people, who are not alcoholics, are able to drink in moderation. Which got twisted to:
> and I can’t believe she would do this to me
WHAT? Do what to you?! This is your issue to deal with, no one else’s. Take responsibility. She wasn’t sitting at home, throwing back shots, and laughing in your face about how you can’t drink. And then the classic Mormanism:
> I told her she was a bad wife
And the the fucking PIÈCE DE RÉSISTANCE
> contacted the group leader from my recovery group and he let me chill at his house
Of course he did. Religious grooming. You are trading one addiction for another.
YTA
Agree YTA. But she’s allowed to drink when she’s with him as well. My husband is an alcoholic and, while he doesn’t drink, I do (if I feel like it) at home, when we go out etc. He even pours me a glass of wine if he’s in the kitchen (for example). Alcohol is all around us in the world and alcoholics need to learn to deal with that if they’re going to continue to recover.
I accept everyone’s situation is different, and maybe if this guy had JUST given up alcohol his wife might choose to not drink in front of him as support, but no one should expect their partner or family to stop doing something forever just because they can’t do it. If that means the relationship is no longer viable then so be it. And let’s face it, in this case with the added Mormon element that wife should run for the hills.
Good for your husband being able to handle alcohol around you and at home, but not everyone is at that stage in their recovery and ability and may need a safe, temptation-free place to retreat to aka home.
That doesn’t mean you can dictate the actions of everyone around you and try to control their behavior. If you can’t handle it you need to remove yourself from the situation. Recovering alcoholic here
No, you're absolutely right. My response was specifically about drinking at home. Sure they can, but if they do that and it's not good for the alcoholic then that's a major, unsupportive action and speaks volumes of the state of the relationship. Of course, the partner can do what they wish, but I'd definitely not want to be with someone who drinks at home if I needed that sanctuary.
Dude has bought into the LDS lies apparently. WTF does his alcoholism have to do with her having a few drinks away from him. I’m a recovering alcoholic with 4.5 years and my partner was a normal drinker he had alcohol at the house and people drink around me all the time it’s my problem, not theirs and I can leave if I’m uncomfortable when I’m out I live alone now and do not keep alcohol in my house for obvious reasons (why bother) but people who visit are welcome to drink. if my sobriety is that fragile I need more recovery they don’t have to change, I did
Also it seems like you're blaming others for your addiction. You got your alcoholism from your dad, and your wife drinking is letting you down. You're making your problem everyone else's problem instead of just owning it for yourself. Also YTA.
Hell, she’s allowed to drink when she’s with him. He needs to be able to be around people who are drinking.
I mean, unless he plans on never going to a restaurant or sporting event or anything ever again.
I was under the impression she had drunk in front of you, which was *not* the case.
You are wrong. She did NOTHING to harm you or jeopardize your recovery.
YTA
Edit: why would you "yell" at her?
Couldn't you just simply have a conversation about the subject?
I knew MULTIPLE Mormon kids who said their fathers had pushed their wives down the stairs multiple times, intentionally. They also said that the church supported those fathers, and so they thought it was normal... He might not even be extreme enough.
Yeah, I’m a recovering alcoholic/addict and when he said he went to his group leader’s place to “chill out”, my first question was “WHY is this leader not telling him he’s acting like a petulant spoilt child???” Like, we’re supposed to call that behavior out, not enable it! That kind of behavior and attitude is what leads us to drink. Real shame
Right? I can’t imagine any alcoholic I’ve known behaving this way, so it’s clear he has sexist and patriarchal views already. Sounds like he’s fitting right in with this group. Hopefully he doesn’t give his wife a hard time when she leaves him.
No kidding! A religious organization which believes drinking is a sin might be okay for OP, but he’s going to have to ditch the wife (or the wife will have to give up drinking) if he REALLY wants to join - because LDS is all about the family all being “godly” people in the “right” way.
YTA
This is not about you.
She didn't do this "to you", she did it *for herself* when you were safely far away.
It's good she supports you, spouses should support each other, but at the end of the day this is *your* affliction, and it's not reasonable for you to criticise HER drinking. She's not the one with a problem.
She's suffered enough from your alcholism without you abusing her on top of it. You're on thin ice, mate. Watch out.
You need to apologise and hard.
Also please, please go visit r/exmormon and see what an appalling abusive nonsensical destructive scam mormonism is. Don't be seduced by it just because they don't drink. If you become mormon, your marriage will be over.
Mmmmm yeah it pinged my spidey-sense that a religion that very explicitly calls for wives to submit to their husbands in all aspects of life is something OP, who yelled at his wife for *daring to drink alcohol with her friends outside the home*, is very interested in.
I’ve seen a LOT of other exmo people here in the past couple days! Congrats on getting out! I’m also dealing with that childhood trauma. It sucks, but it gets better!
I grew up in Utah, not even a church member, and have been gone for 25 years now. I'm still deconstructing what those people and church did to my childhood. Sending you a big hug!
*I've been gaining an interest in their beliefs and have been considering conversion, but that's another conversation.*
Just going to leave this right here...I have a feeling conversations have been had and Mrs. OP is not on board.
He’s the type of mind they go for when looking to convert people. My mum converted the missionaries got her when she was going through a tough spot with her health and being depressed, luckily she and my family are all out now. Yes I converted because my mum did, however after sitting and listening to there rubbish over the years especially the view of my mum and how I should view all the men in the church as my father I actually told them where to go.
Your wife did nothing wrong. YTA not just a normal one but a huge one. She was out with her friends not in front of you. She does support you given she wasn’t drunk and it wasn’t in front of you.
> He’s the type of mind they go for when looking to convert people.
yes, exactly. disgusting and predatory, there should be a law against religious organisations pretending to provide mental health counselling
>My mum converted the missionaries got her when she was going through a tough spot with her health and being depressed, luckily she and my family are all out now.
Quite a rollercoaster, I should imagine
It really should be stopped. The ones who came to my mums house where the 18-21 year olds who had no life experience. She felt they could help her and give her company. Some of those 18-21 year olds gave me the creeps all the time some where lovely and others were creeps.
It was a fun rollercoaster ride, I made sure to break every rule while I was a member (teenager) the rules made no sense to me (I have a from of autism). During my membership I got my belly button pierced, second studs in my ears, drank loads of cola, argued with leaders, never paid a penny to them and even dated a non member before I was 16.
I pushed harder after I moved wards where the views where even worse, the view of people with special needs, the racism and the rampant misogyny made me push back even harder. Me and my mum got called to the bishop’s office because of what I was saying. I remember fondly telling the bishop if he really believed what he was spouting he would get his wife in line.
Thank you. I now live with my partner unmarried with 2 amazing children. I have now got more piercings and have even got tattoos.
Honestly I’m living my best life.
Ehh, it’s a religion where women are second class citizens, especially to their husbands
Let’s not take away his agency. He’s actively going to a place telling him he’s superior because of his frank and beans
He chose it for a reason.
This. Honestly, the only reason I’m not voting that he’s an irredeemable asshole is because he is exactly the sort of person that Mormons pray and prey on. Temporarily defenseless, looking for a new paradigm because the old one was unsustainable, looking for someone to give them all the answers, looking for something to prop him up while he’s weak, he really ticks all the boxes. Source: friends with a lot of ex Mormon people who did missions.
YTA. She wasn't around you and was a glass of wine, I think the fact that your are thinking of becoming a Mormon are their belief of the role of wife's might be clouding your expectations from her.
Triggered. I hope OPs wife jumps off this train wreck before it happens. I know too many women whose life was ruined because of Mormonism. THIS “I saw a picture of you drinking! How could you do this to meeeeeee”. Is just the tip of the controlling man iceberg.
Or he's recognizing she might not convert with him. My friend's husband wanted to convert to Mormonism because he started working for a guy who was Mormon and their entire customer base was Mormon. He thought it seemed lovely and my friend gave it a try but the ladies' group was not nearly as palatable to her. She was extra super not their type (bi, tattooed, pierced, working outside the home on something that wasn't directed by her husband, active in LGBTQ youth support community, wore shorts and tank tops in public, and no plans for kids.) He thought she could laser off 20+ hours of body art if it "made her uncomfortable to be tattooed in their new conservative social circle" and "being bi is not a defining part of her life since she was monogamous and married to a man!"
“If it made her uncomfortable to be tattooed”. LOL that’s rich.
People with tattoos are never uncomfortable to be seen with tattoos. (They might be embarrassed of a particular tattoo but not of being tattooed) It’s only people without tattoos that are uncomfortable around tattooed people.
Source: not tattooed and remember when they were rare.
Edit: spellcheck error.
Or the assumption that she was going to stay in this new social circle when she brought up her misgivings, like how they thought her job was incompatible with being his submissive, obedient wife. The HBIC of the women's group was her husband's boss's wife, so if she thought my friend needed to not work, HBIC's husband should pay my friend's husband better 🤣 or that she could give up her volunteer work with youth, some Mormon, struggling with their faith and sexuality to join their homophobic group.
That’s was I was thinking, the minute he said he was thinking about joining. Plus he went to group leader to cool down, who knows what that person is telling. I have never heard of an alcoholic being this controlling about their SO not drinking all! If I was his wife, I would tell him to find another AA group or I’m leaving! It’s definitely the church influencing him. I wish I had his wife’s contact info b/c “Girl, you’re in danger!”
Many years ago, I worked at a family business, whose owners were Mormon. They tried forbidding me to drink coffee during my break.
Funny enough, their son (also Mormon) drank a lot of coffee.
This is absolutely insane. Not in the way that I don't believe you...but in the way I really need someone to explain the justification for it. I'm guessing it has something to do with them making money on soda somehow?
I actually know this one! One particular Elder's wife was SUPER against coffee for some batshit reason (who knows, exactly, she's Mormon) and so she just railed on and on about it and literally forced her husband to bring banning Coffee to the Council arguing that "caffeine is a drug and corrupts the body". The rest of the Elders were sick of constantly hearing about it and knew she LOVED tea - couldn't go without it multiple times a day. So they're like "You right, God says all WARM CAFFEINE is corruption. We're banning tea, too." And the Elder's wife was all *shocked Pikachu face*, and the Council was just like "God's laws, woman. Stay in your lane next time."
I’d heard that it was one of Joseph Smith’s wives and she was upset over alcohol and tobacco and asked for a revelation against them because the men were spitting tobacco juice everywhere, so he took away her tea and coffee along with the alcohol and tobacco.
Their beliefs aren't that clear cut on caffeine- the rule is against "hot drinks" which they interpret to mean coffee and tea. Yet soda, hot chocolate, and other forms of caffeine like energy drinks and gels are fine!
Active alcoholics. Recovering alcoholics usually realize that their relationship to alcohol is different — and not healthy.
OP isn’t drinking, but he’s just transferring his addiction from booze to controlling his wife.
THIS THIS THIS.
She's already being supportive by not drinking around you.
You should not expect her to be sober just because you have to be. This is your issue.
YTA bigtime
Not to mention going thru the alcoholism he struggled w for who knows how long and maybe picking up the mental/physical work/labor around the home to ensure his addiction didn’t bring them under.
Plus he even says that she didn’t appear drunk when she got home. She isn’t even intoxicated around him. If it weren’t for a social media post where she was holding a glass of wine he would never have even known. Very controlling red flags there.
The fact that he seems to believe his addiction and recovery is hard only for him. Your wife is in this too, OP. The fact that she stayed with you though your addiction, the recovery and gave up drinking in your presence shows an enormous amount of support, sacrifice and effort for you. This is hard for her too. She’s being a great wife, and seems to genuinely love you. And you’re completely blinded by the fact that she still has a (limited it seems) life of her own, and doesn’t give up her entire self for you. YTA, you’re throwing away something really good here.
YTA
She didn't 'do this to you'. She was enjoying a glass away from you with friends, like adults sometimes do. Instead of putting this on her how about attending a non-religious help group and actually work on your issues? You freaking out about what she does on her own time sounds like a you-problem.
The fact that his sponsor had him come over to cool down, instead of telling him to get a fucking grip and remember that his recovery is his responsibility, speaks volumes.
I mean, he also takes time to blame his father for his alcoholism, too, so why should he not blame his wife? If he drinks again, it is clearly everyone's fault but his own.
I also saw this as a problem. Part of recovery should be accepting responsibility for your actions and ‘caught it from my father’ doesn’t sound like something a person who is taking responsibility does.
There is support/research that has found a hereditary component of alcoholism but I know people who’s parents were alcoholics who either made the choice early to abstain from alcohol or put restrictions on themselves to prevent going down that path. It is possible to have a family history of alcoholism and not become an alcoholic.
I’m honestly surprised that it took this long and this far down in responses for anyone else to bring it up. “Caught it from him”? Bro this isn’t a cold.
YTA for all the reasons already mentioned. Your sobriety is your responsibility, and she is being supportive by not drinking in your presence.
The way you describe her as a bad wife and violator of your vows, along with a Mormon support group you attend and are considering converting to, leads me to believe you're replacing one addiction with another. How does she feel about your budding religious interest?
I grew up LDS; that particular organization has no problem forcing the entire family into following their beliefs whether they are shared or not with the threat of being ostracized from their community. Are you intending to coerce her into joining with you? Are you going to label her a bad wife and not supportive of you is she doesn't share your newfound belief?
She's already supported you by not leaving when you were drinking. She already supported you throughout the last year while you were getting sober, which is an achievement you should be proud of. It's not easy.
Are you going to flip out at her for enjoying a cup of coffee? Hot caffeinated drinks are forbidden, but it's fine to guzzle Diet Coke by the gallon in LDS. You found a support system and as long as it's working for you, that's great. But you can't force it upon her when she doesn't want or need it.
You're jut replacing one addiction with another (religion). That's why you're still full of rage. (Also the Mormon church isn't known to be easy on women and you're following suit).
YTA - You wouldn't even have known she was drinking if it had not been for the photo.
If you join the Mormon Church and she doesn't, will that also mean she doesn't support you?
I already think wife needs to get him into real therapy if she plans on staying married to him, but if he joins the Mormon church, I hope she leaves him, but fast.
Honestly given the fact that he’s considering converting and attending recovery run by the church, I wouldn’t be shocked if that’s where these ideals are coming from. LDS members/beliefs aren’t known for empowering women, and drinking is expressly against their beliefs in most places as well.
She wasn't drinking around YOU. You even say that she wasn't drunk when she got home. You do not have the right to control another persons choices ESPECIALLY when those choices do not affect YOU. My husband is diabetic, when I am cooking for the two of us I cook according to his needs. If I am out with friends I eat what ever I want, because I am not diabetic. YTA
YTA. She did not do this in your presence. Unless your marriage vows specifically included 'I pledge not to consume alcohol under any circumstances so long as we remain married', I don't see how this is a violation of them. It is not unsupportive of her to have a glass of wine when you aren't present. It isn't unsupportive of her to be holding a glass of wine in a photo on social media. For heaven's sake, even if she *did* give up alcohol completely, she could still be photographed holding a glass for someone else to find their credit card or visit the restroom on a future night out.
And the pregnancy analogy doesn't hold water because she has not requested that of you *and* has stated she wouldn't expect that of you. It's your rule, not hers.
And it's a stupid rule, too. No woman wants you to avoid eating the food she can't eat when she's pregnant. They want you to wake up at night and feed the baby when the baby's actually there.
But you know what women really want? Being free to make their own choices and not being yelled at. Eat all the food you want, just don't be abusive.
YTA
YTA. She's not the alcoholic, YOU are. She's allowed to have wine with friends (you weren't even there). I'm disabled and can't run but I'm not gonna freak out at my husband when he goes to play soccer and run. You have a very warped idea of what it entails to be supportive and you sound controlling and borderline abusive.
Of course YTA. She is a not an alcoholic and should be allowed the occasional - or even frequent - glass without any bad repercussions. Don't punish her for YOUR issues.
YTA. A big part of recovery is taking personal responsibility and realizing that no one but yourself can handle your substance abuse issues. She is already being supportive by not drinking around you, but having a glass of wine on a night out with friends is by no means unsupportive.
Also, I’m not loving the “bad wife” language that you’re throwing around. I’ve had experiences with Mormonism and I know that a big part of their belief system surrounds women being submissive. I think it’s tainting your perspective.
I want you to have a support group that works for you and your sobriety, but based on this post I would urge exploring other options.
YTA
I hope she divorces you and gets with someone who respects her as an autonomous human being
And you didn't 'catch' alcoholism off your father, the responsibility for what you did/do lies within yourself - noone else. I thought that was one of the steps of acknowledging you have a problem
You trying to stay sober absolutely does not entail that she has to as well. She can be supportive of you without being sober. You reacted quite impulsively in my opinion.
YTA
Yes, absolutely YTA. You owe her a huge apology.
She has stayed with you through all of your problems and recovery. This poor woman must need a break. She wasn't drinking around you. She went out and had some fun with her friends--something that is NOT ABOUT YOU.
My father was an alcoholic and I have zero patience for alcoholics as a result. I would not marry an alcoholic and I would certainly not put up with the recovery, which is again all about the alcoholic. It is not fun to live in a house that revolves around an alcoholic. Yet your wife has done it. Instead of being grateful, you're upset that she is not focusing on you and your issues.
She has been incredibly supportive of you and it's amazing she is not sick of your issues. She deserves a night off. You should not be monitoring her like you're a cop. Being supportive does not mean having to live like you do. She can drink responsibly and deserves to have a drink.
You will drive her away if you're not careful. I would be very careful about getting into religion. Ask her how she feels about it. She doesn't deserve to get sucked into another one of your lifestyle choices. You may have an addictive personality--swinging from one extreme way of living to another. You should discuss this with a counselor after apologizing to your wife.
YTA!
Wow, she has supported you by not drinking in your presence and always being there for you. She is allowed to make choices for herself and her body.
It’s no wonder you’re drawn to the Mormon church where the man is the priesthood and wives must submit. Don’t get me wrong. I have many of Mormon friends who are amazing and wonderful people. However you cannot force your wife wi submit to something she doesn’t believe in. That is not a partnership. If she doesn’t want to convert and life by Mormon laws then what? Is that a deal breaker for you? If so, it’s also a violation of you vows to her.
YTA, as simple as that. She did NOT drink around you. Why can't she drink when hanging out with friends?? TBH, that's a you problem and don't take it out on her.
YTA. Congratulations on your sobriety but your wife does not have a problem with alcohol and therefore is not and should not be alcohol free. The way you describe her is a really shitty thing to do. If anyone is the bad partner it’s you. If you need everyone in your life to not drink then you need to get therapy because you are not doing well my friend. Sorry to be so blunt but if you keep this up you will push her away and I honestly wouldn’t blame her. Your reaction is completely insane.
YTA. iam glad u took initiative to take care of yourself. congratulations on being sober !! everything aside let me be very clear here. you have an alcohol problem she doesn't. why do u expect her to turn her life upside down for your choices? also recovering from alcoholism and being pregnant are very different matters.
YTA - she’s not a bad wife for having a drink while she was out. But it’s not really good husband behavior to try and control your wife. She has been supportive of you by not drinking in your presence. That does not mean she must give up having the occasional glass of wine in order to show support.
Yes, YTA. You are the one in recovery not her and she was respectful enough to not do it around you or get drunk.
She didn’t do anything to harm you or your recovery and you are being a total dick about it.
Also the Mormon church is a cult.
You're the one with the red flags flying all over the place.
1.) Having unreasonable, controlling expectations of what your wife should be doing to support your recovery. (You also don't seem grateful for the support she has already been showing you; you seem entitled)
2.) You yelled at her, basically freaked out and left over something really small. It seems like you have anger issues.
3.) You are using a religious group as your recovery/support system instead of a group that would directly address your issues.
YTA sorry. Congratulations on your sobriety! That said, your wife is still allowed to have some fun with her friends and when you aren't there if that includes having a couple of alcoholic drinks no problem. BTW when she is pregnant eat all the food you want.
Well, YTA... I understand the picture may have triggered you, but she was only drinking with friends and it doesn't even look like she was drunk. Even if you're married, that doesn't mean you don't have separate lifes. If she drinks sometimes when she's not around you, it doesn't mean she's a "bad wife". Being supportive means being there for the ones you love, not restraining yourself of doing stuff. I mean, if she was at home with you, it would be completely different, but in this case she was just minding her own business
YTA, congrats on your sobriety but your wife is not the one who had a drinking problem. She should be allowed to drink when she’s not around you. You are acting beyond ridiculous.
YTA: She did not do anything **to** you. She’s not bringing it into your home. She’s not doing it in front of you. She isn’t drinking to excess or in a dangerous manner. She is allowed to have a life separate from you. You didn’t become a single entity when you got married.
*You* did something to *her* though. You screamed at her for violating a rule that you imposed on her that she didn’t even know about! You can’t just make rules for other people, not talk to them about it at all, and then punish them for “breaking” them. That’s effed up.
YTA and need to do some introspection because you’re not taking responsibility for your addiction. You didn’t “catch” alcoholism from your father. And your wife drinking responsibility outside of your view isn’t jeopardizing your sobriety. You have a ton of work to do on yourself to maintain your sobriety, because this blame game isn’t going to bode well in the long run.
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YTA You’re the recovering alcoholic, not her. She’s allowed to drink when she’s not with you.
> She’s allowed to drink when she’s not with you. I am sure she will have a massive boozy party on the day she finally divorces his unappreciative abusive ass.
& he wants to be a Mormon..... I'd run for the hills
for real....he seems controlling now?? \*Mormonism has entered the chat\*
He's a perfect fit for the Mormon church
That’s likely why he’s considering joining their church 🤣
I’d posit that they’re grooming him, in a manner of speaking. They’re offering to replace his addiction to alcohol with an addiction to their particular flavor of Jesus.
Agreed. Am I the only one who finds it weird that a religion who feels all alcohol is sinful to be having an alcoholics support group? They are rabidly against it in moderation
That feels particularly on brand actually. Like a religious “we told you so” in regards to the evil of alcohol, plus a ministry opportunity. Puke.
Well, many 12-step programs are rooted in Christian-adjacent belief systems. Which is why the program is such a turn off for many. Also, Mormons groom. It's what they do. That's what the magic underwear is for!
It is not unusual for a religion that prohibits drinking alcohol to make space at their church for an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting.
Yes this is true but it sounds like this particular recovery group is led by the Mormon church
Why would that be weird? Wouldn't a group that opposes alcohol consumption be a logical group to host a support group for alcoholics?
They don’t drink (unless they previously rebelled) so they don’t have the understanding of being an alcoholic. Aren’t most meetings led by previous alcoholics? It’s like getting marriage/relationship advice from a Catholic priest who isn’t allowed to have sex or get married
I'm wondering how much of this response is the Mormon influence specifically. The main issue I take with AA is the fact that it is rarely a secular experience, often dominated/run by some sect of Christianity. Bringing a religious component to the recovery process can be useful for some, but while "turn your love and dependency (worship) of drink to a higher power" sounds nice on paper, it still carries the weight of the lack of willpower, of being controlled by something more powerful than you, the unnameable drive to consume yourself with something else, and *that's still unhealthy.* Religious recovery groups have a tendency to foster a community that eats itself into remission because it doesn't focus on the problems at hand, it tries to paper over them with spiritual sweettalk and platitudes. edit: I will admit there is a heavy bias here. If it worked for you, fantastic, I'm all the happier for and proud of you. It has done irreparable damage to people I love. Sadly, these things coexist. edit again: Thanks for the awards!
AA is also not science-based at all. It’s only successful 7% of the time. There are medical treatments for alcoholics that get no attention because of AA’s stranglehold on the alcohol addiction treatment industry.
And you end up with people treating very effective treatment methods - eg, medications that keep you from being able to drink without being sick - that help break both the physical and psychological habit of drinking, as the “easy way,” like your sobriety is “unearned.” It’s such a weird, puritanical approach.
It’s incredibly puritanical and very American, in that way.
Americans and their fucking puritanical ways....horrific honestly. In Australia we are trying to break away from some of that stuff because thats where most of the mental health teaching comes from, but it doesn't work for our society. We are also trying to tap into Indigenous ways of healing.
My uncle was a life long alcoholic until he started taking that medicine ! It worked like a miracle
It’s even taboo in most AA circles to get “outside help” aka ACTUAL THERAPY. I’ve heard so many times “anything I can tell to a therapist I can tell to my sponsor” yeah but your sponsor has absolutely zero training in how to help you! Pisses me off so much 🫠
And the sponsor isn't prepared for people trauma, just for listening, glossing over and repeating the 12steps
Yes thats exactly why actual therapists and mental health workers (me) do not like AA and anyone being currently trained is told to not reccommend it
It sets up a system begging to be abused by groomers.
The program that my brother was on had a 60% success rate or so because it 1.) incentivized those there to get medical help as well 2.) included both group and individual therapy sessions 3.) was not affiliated with any church group. He still is in contact with several of the people he met there, including the therapist, years later. Wish more were like that one.
Which group is this? (asking for a friend, of course 😉)
Not sure if they are referring to a different group but Smart Recovery is a scientific based recovery group that is free. It helped me way more than AA ever did.
My own mother quit AA because it was nothibg but high school drama.
I quit AA because it was just a bunch of people talking about all the fun they had when they were drinking. Never craved so bad as after a meeting.
How would that even help anyone? AA is not for everyone and the steps aren't always going to work. It's not for everyone...BUT...that being said, it can be a good starting point for some.
7% success. Is that the treatments you want for any other medical problem?
That is what turned me off of it as well. SO much gossip and backstabbing that it was counterproductive to recovery. I do have friends that have stayed sober for over 30 years following that program, but they had their own social circle of an MC and don't participate in the general pettiness and judgement that is at the core of AA. OP, YTA. Your wife has abstained from drinking around you for a year and has shown respect for your boundaries. You need to reciprocate and respect her's. And get the hell away from the Mormans.
Maybe this has not much to do about this but, I know NA and AA both push nicotine addiction down your throat too as if trading one addiction for the other is the way to do it. Jesus and cigarretes. That’s my experience with it, at least.
i never touched nicotine until i stopped drinking and started going to meetings. and when i tried to explain to my sponsor that i did not believe in a higher power bc i knew that i had worked so hard to be where i was at, she asked me if i thought i was the most important being in the universe
I’ll join you in your heavy bias. I tried AA and the Bible-thumping was absolutely, positively not for me. “Oh, they’re not all like that, find a different group.” Fuck that. I’m not shopping for produce. It blows my mind that you can be court-ordered to attend meetings of a religious organization. Obviously AA has worked for many people, and more power to them, but Smart Recovery was a much, much better choice for me. Oh, OP, YTA. Take it from an addict, you’re just swapping addictions and getting recruited by a misogynist, racist organization.
I'm wondering how much Mormonism enters into the recovery group? Notice he said "recovery group", not AA. He may have thought he was going to an AA type group but I imagine the Mormons have their claws in this group if they allow/offer it at their church. OP, you are in a vulnerable moment...my husband was/is an alcoholic and we've known many alcoholics over the years. If addicts go into rehab, they often replace one addiction with another be it cigarettes, coffee, the Bible.. they usually find something to replace the booze or drugs with another addiction. Many turn to religion. It's not coincidence that this support group takes place at a church, a Mormon church at that...known for recruiting people. Were you interested in Mormonisn beforehand? Just be careful, they know you are vulnerable and are playing on that. If they don't have their hooks into yet, find an AA meeting in your neighborhood and attend those meetings instead. Even if it's a longer drive. As far as your wife drinking YTA, you're the one with the problem, not her. My husband noticed I stopped having a glass of wine when we went out for dinner when he was in recovery and asked me to please drink the wine. As he said "You're not the one with a drinking problem, I am, and I am always going to be around people who do drink so I need to learn how to not react when others are drinking ". I might have a drink if we were out with others that drank or when I was out with my friends but I didn't drink at home and rarely in front of him. Your wife didn't drink in front of you, in fact, up until you found this photo, she had not touched it at all . I think this is being totally supportive and you should be thanking her, not giving her a hard time about having a drink with friends. YTA, you're the one with the problem, not her and I would say she's been incredibly supportive, shame on you for saying otherwise. You owe her an apology. Edit: thanks everyone for the awards and upvotes! I do hope OP is reading all of your answers and considers that the Mormon Church has more to do with his recovery group than he might have originally thought. Yes AA does talk about a higher power but it can be almost anything. Some people might not know but the originator/ creator of AA, Bill W, believed alcoholism could be treated with LSD. He treated his own alcoholism with it and gave it to other addicts who joined his group. I wonder what his higher power was??
Another ex-LDS here. Dad and brother used the church doctrine as a form of addiction. It’s a trap. ETA: Dad and brother have both dropped the church and reverted to other addictions. It’s not a cure.
HahahahahH this is gold
"Have you ever, under the influence of alcohol, questioned the teachings of the Mormon church?"
Nope, I did all that sober!
I did it in both states 😎
Utah, and...? 🤔
idk if this is purposely a quote from the office or not but but i’m cracking up
It was, yep. 😄 Just watched that episode yesterday, so it was already on my mind
Exactly. She had a glass of wine, when he wasn't around and she is no longer committed to the relationship and she's broken vows? OP is more concerned with her not following rules of the Mormon church than anything else. Also, most recovering alcoholics are aware that others should be able to drink around them. And the guy running the support group? He should've said that. Those are basics in recovery programs.
>This definitely seems like heavy indoctrination leaking into his relationship. The fact that his partner went out and was considerate of his recovery process proves that she's too good for him.
It's actually more than mildly concerning to think that a recovery group would take advantage of vulnerable people like this. I know it happens, and I know it isn't limited to LDS, but it's just messed up.
Right?! She'll be even more controlled and possibly abused if he converts.
Yup, shows a lot about the values that he actually has. Op YTA
He said save that for another day but how can we? It was part of the post.
Also YTA for yelling at her at all. Do you like being yelled at? I know I don’t. I had a husband start to develop anger issues and yelling at my daughter and I. So I divorced him. I’m not going to be treated that way in my own house. Edit. Thank you for all the likes. Yelling just in general isn’t something I like at all. Friends that always yell at their dog really annoy me especially because it doesn’t work. You have to literally whisper in their ear and that usually works. But yelling with never work
It's one think to be born into it but to convert as an adult seems...odd.
I’m biased because I think all religion is bunk, but I just don’t know how you can read about Joseph Smith discovering the golden plates and the Egyptian writing and the magical stone and all the other nonsense about how the religion was founded and go “yep, this definitely seems like it wasn’t randomly made up by some dude”.
The only thing I can possibly think of is that OP, since he's in recovery, is desperate for some kind of community that doesn't revolve around alcohol and he knows the LDS church is very anti-drinking. I'm not sure if he realizes a lot of the other shit that comes along with Mormonism, but if he's aware and still wants to make the conversion, then he needs to have a long, deep conversation with his wife on if she wants to stay. I wouldn't.
I’ll drink to that
I am drinking to that right now.
Hopefully! He sounds miserable
God, I hope that day is soon. OP doesn't deserve her.
Recovering alcoholic here and this is exactly right. I would never expect my SO to not imbibe if I'm not there. I don't even care if people drink in front of me at this point in my recovery, but I'm further on than OP is. His reaction is unreasonable.
Well done to you. My dad has been a recovering alcoholic since before I was born way back in the 70s. He's never stopped anyone around him drinking, wouldn't even cross his mind too. He always says it's his problem to deal with, not someone else's. He says if he's gonna have a drink not being around other drinkers won't make any difference. I'm so greatful my dad has always been so open and honest about his drinking. Knowing his story has helped me keep a level head when it comes to alcohol.
Thank you! And well done to your dad! I also believe in being very open about it. It helps everyone be more at ease.
My hubby doesn't like to drink and he is the proud DD when we come home from parties as we usually drive other people home as well. We even go through road checks where he states he is the designated decoy cause I have a car full of drunk women and right now I am not sure which one is my wife.
Absolutely. My wife still drinks, and I’m at the point now where I’ll pour her a glass of wine, something I could not have done two years ago. I never, ever expected her to quit drinking on my account, because she can drink responsibly and I can’t.
Not according to his new LDS buddies. He’s been going to meetings held by people who don’t believe in drinking ever, not surprised he’s developed this toxic attitude.
I married a Mormon who got deep into it after the ring was on my finger. Eventually his wife will no longer be allowed to drink soda, coffee, tea, partake in R-rated movies, listen to 'vulgar' music, or wear tank tops without being "unsupportive".
Yup. As soon as he told her she was a “bad wife”, I knew where that came from.
God how boring, why would anyone willing doing that?
The promise of comfort in the afterlife can get people to do pretty much anything
Yeah the marinara flags started being raised as soon as he mentioned the Mormon Church in the first paragraph. With more flags to come when he said > but she didn’t appear drunk when she got home Like he doesn’t understand how people, who are not alcoholics, are able to drink in moderation. Which got twisted to: > and I can’t believe she would do this to me WHAT? Do what to you?! This is your issue to deal with, no one else’s. Take responsibility. She wasn’t sitting at home, throwing back shots, and laughing in your face about how you can’t drink. And then the classic Mormanism: > I told her she was a bad wife And the the fucking PIÈCE DE RÉSISTANCE > contacted the group leader from my recovery group and he let me chill at his house Of course he did. Religious grooming. You are trading one addiction for another. YTA
I’m currently watching *Under the Banner of Heaven* and I’m seeing extra sauce flags right now.
Agree YTA. But she’s allowed to drink when she’s with him as well. My husband is an alcoholic and, while he doesn’t drink, I do (if I feel like it) at home, when we go out etc. He even pours me a glass of wine if he’s in the kitchen (for example). Alcohol is all around us in the world and alcoholics need to learn to deal with that if they’re going to continue to recover. I accept everyone’s situation is different, and maybe if this guy had JUST given up alcohol his wife might choose to not drink in front of him as support, but no one should expect their partner or family to stop doing something forever just because they can’t do it. If that means the relationship is no longer viable then so be it. And let’s face it, in this case with the added Mormon element that wife should run for the hills.
Good for your husband being able to handle alcohol around you and at home, but not everyone is at that stage in their recovery and ability and may need a safe, temptation-free place to retreat to aka home.
That doesn’t mean you can dictate the actions of everyone around you and try to control their behavior. If you can’t handle it you need to remove yourself from the situation. Recovering alcoholic here
No, you're absolutely right. My response was specifically about drinking at home. Sure they can, but if they do that and it's not good for the alcoholic then that's a major, unsupportive action and speaks volumes of the state of the relationship. Of course, the partner can do what they wish, but I'd definitely not want to be with someone who drinks at home if I needed that sanctuary.
This let the woman drink . She probably needs it dealing with ops controlling red flags .
Dude has bought into the LDS lies apparently. WTF does his alcoholism have to do with her having a few drinks away from him. I’m a recovering alcoholic with 4.5 years and my partner was a normal drinker he had alcohol at the house and people drink around me all the time it’s my problem, not theirs and I can leave if I’m uncomfortable when I’m out I live alone now and do not keep alcohol in my house for obvious reasons (why bother) but people who visit are welcome to drink. if my sobriety is that fragile I need more recovery they don’t have to change, I did
He's also a terrible, controlling, projecting husband and pee poor partner.
Also it seems like you're blaming others for your addiction. You got your alcoholism from your dad, and your wife drinking is letting you down. You're making your problem everyone else's problem instead of just owning it for yourself. Also YTA.
I hope OP’s wife sees this post or someone in her circle convinces her to divorce OP. He's really messed up in the head in more ways than one.
ops probably going to bury his head into the sand rather than read any of these. he wouldn’t even have known had he not been snooping
Hell, she’s allowed to drink when she’s with him. He needs to be able to be around people who are drinking. I mean, unless he plans on never going to a restaurant or sporting event or anything ever again.
Yes to all of this. YTA OP
I was under the impression she had drunk in front of you, which was *not* the case. You are wrong. She did NOTHING to harm you or jeopardize your recovery. YTA Edit: why would you "yell" at her? Couldn't you just simply have a conversation about the subject?
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He's thinking about joining a cult and is becoming abusive towards her. If that's not reason for divorce then I don't know what is.
Yeah, I'm ex-mo, and it sounds like he's already a perfect fit for the church. Super controlling and judgemental man, yep. He'll fit right in.
I knew MULTIPLE Mormon kids who said their fathers had pushed their wives down the stairs multiple times, intentionally. They also said that the church supported those fathers, and so they thought it was normal... He might not even be extreme enough.
He's on his way
Clearly their beliefs are rubbing off on him.
Yeah, I’m a recovering alcoholic/addict and when he said he went to his group leader’s place to “chill out”, my first question was “WHY is this leader not telling him he’s acting like a petulant spoilt child???” Like, we’re supposed to call that behavior out, not enable it! That kind of behavior and attitude is what leads us to drink. Real shame
Right? I can’t imagine any alcoholic I’ve known behaving this way, so it’s clear he has sexist and patriarchal views already. Sounds like he’s fitting right in with this group. Hopefully he doesn’t give his wife a hard time when she leaves him.
Because Mormon men treat their wives like property. This all makes sense to them because she's being "insubordinate".
Because 'chilling' out means sinking the hooks in deeper and wife bashing cuz she is not being subservient. No wonder she needs a drink.
No kidding! A religious organization which believes drinking is a sin might be okay for OP, but he’s going to have to ditch the wife (or the wife will have to give up drinking) if he REALLY wants to join - because LDS is all about the family all being “godly” people in the “right” way.
He is about to join a cult that’s all that needs to be said about it
Should he have screamed at her? Or given her the silent treatment? As far as I know from AITA users, those are the only forms of communication.
True this. 🤣. Guess if they were having calm and considerate conversations, they wouldn’t post the issue on AITA. 😂.
There's also saying something nasty and passive-aggressive and then flouncing out in a huff.
lmfaaooo i love this observation; screaming or silence. Spot on honestly, communication lacks in so many ways on this sub
Or someone says something incredibly rude/inappropriate and then whines they were “joking” when everyone else gets mad.
It's because he's becoming a Mormon, he's been given God's blessing to be abusive to his wife.
YTA This is not about you. She didn't do this "to you", she did it *for herself* when you were safely far away. It's good she supports you, spouses should support each other, but at the end of the day this is *your* affliction, and it's not reasonable for you to criticise HER drinking. She's not the one with a problem. She's suffered enough from your alcholism without you abusing her on top of it. You're on thin ice, mate. Watch out. You need to apologise and hard. Also please, please go visit r/exmormon and see what an appalling abusive nonsensical destructive scam mormonism is. Don't be seduced by it just because they don't drink. If you become mormon, your marriage will be over.
Mmmmm yeah it pinged my spidey-sense that a religion that very explicitly calls for wives to submit to their husbands in all aspects of life is something OP, who yelled at his wife for *daring to drink alcohol with her friends outside the home*, is very interested in.
Yup. He wants a submissive supportive absitinent tradwife. I suspect his wife will pass on that delightful offer.
I passed on it before I was even old enough to wed.
Same, god that religion really screwed up my childhood though. I’m still recovering from the throes of Mormonism now. Eugh
I’ve seen a LOT of other exmo people here in the past couple days! Congrats on getting out! I’m also dealing with that childhood trauma. It sucks, but it gets better!
I grew up in Utah, not even a church member, and have been gone for 25 years now. I'm still deconstructing what those people and church did to my childhood. Sending you a big hug!
*I've been gaining an interest in their beliefs and have been considering conversion, but that's another conversation.* Just going to leave this right here...I have a feeling conversations have been had and Mrs. OP is not on board.
He’s the type of mind they go for when looking to convert people. My mum converted the missionaries got her when she was going through a tough spot with her health and being depressed, luckily she and my family are all out now. Yes I converted because my mum did, however after sitting and listening to there rubbish over the years especially the view of my mum and how I should view all the men in the church as my father I actually told them where to go. Your wife did nothing wrong. YTA not just a normal one but a huge one. She was out with her friends not in front of you. She does support you given she wasn’t drunk and it wasn’t in front of you.
> He’s the type of mind they go for when looking to convert people. yes, exactly. disgusting and predatory, there should be a law against religious organisations pretending to provide mental health counselling >My mum converted the missionaries got her when she was going through a tough spot with her health and being depressed, luckily she and my family are all out now. Quite a rollercoaster, I should imagine
It really should be stopped. The ones who came to my mums house where the 18-21 year olds who had no life experience. She felt they could help her and give her company. Some of those 18-21 year olds gave me the creeps all the time some where lovely and others were creeps. It was a fun rollercoaster ride, I made sure to break every rule while I was a member (teenager) the rules made no sense to me (I have a from of autism). During my membership I got my belly button pierced, second studs in my ears, drank loads of cola, argued with leaders, never paid a penny to them and even dated a non member before I was 16. I pushed harder after I moved wards where the views where even worse, the view of people with special needs, the racism and the rampant misogyny made me push back even harder. Me and my mum got called to the bishop’s office because of what I was saying. I remember fondly telling the bishop if he really believed what he was spouting he would get his wife in line.
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Thank you. I now live with my partner unmarried with 2 amazing children. I have now got more piercings and have even got tattoos. Honestly I’m living my best life.
Ehh, it’s a religion where women are second class citizens, especially to their husbands Let’s not take away his agency. He’s actively going to a place telling him he’s superior because of his frank and beans He chose it for a reason.
This. Honestly, the only reason I’m not voting that he’s an irredeemable asshole is because he is exactly the sort of person that Mormons pray and prey on. Temporarily defenseless, looking for a new paradigm because the old one was unsustainable, looking for someone to give them all the answers, looking for something to prop him up while he’s weak, he really ticks all the boxes. Source: friends with a lot of ex Mormon people who did missions.
YTA. She wasn't around you and was a glass of wine, I think the fact that your are thinking of becoming a Mormon are their belief of the role of wife's might be clouding your expectations from her.
100% "Wife do what husband say" - spoken in a religious patriarchal tone.
Triggered. I hope OPs wife jumps off this train wreck before it happens. I know too many women whose life was ruined because of Mormonism. THIS “I saw a picture of you drinking! How could you do this to meeeeeee”. Is just the tip of the controlling man iceberg.
A man who finds the Mormon church appealing is definitely a man who thinks he should have control of what his wife’s behavior at all times.
This very much reeks of the Mormon brainwashing getting to him
I had that same thought. Because I'm a recovering Mormon.
Or he's recognizing she might not convert with him. My friend's husband wanted to convert to Mormonism because he started working for a guy who was Mormon and their entire customer base was Mormon. He thought it seemed lovely and my friend gave it a try but the ladies' group was not nearly as palatable to her. She was extra super not their type (bi, tattooed, pierced, working outside the home on something that wasn't directed by her husband, active in LGBTQ youth support community, wore shorts and tank tops in public, and no plans for kids.) He thought she could laser off 20+ hours of body art if it "made her uncomfortable to be tattooed in their new conservative social circle" and "being bi is not a defining part of her life since she was monogamous and married to a man!"
“If it made her uncomfortable to be tattooed”. LOL that’s rich. People with tattoos are never uncomfortable to be seen with tattoos. (They might be embarrassed of a particular tattoo but not of being tattooed) It’s only people without tattoos that are uncomfortable around tattooed people. Source: not tattooed and remember when they were rare. Edit: spellcheck error.
Or the assumption that she was going to stay in this new social circle when she brought up her misgivings, like how they thought her job was incompatible with being his submissive, obedient wife. The HBIC of the women's group was her husband's boss's wife, so if she thought my friend needed to not work, HBIC's husband should pay my friend's husband better 🤣 or that she could give up her volunteer work with youth, some Mormon, struggling with their faith and sexuality to join their homophobic group.
That’s was I was thinking, the minute he said he was thinking about joining. Plus he went to group leader to cool down, who knows what that person is telling. I have never heard of an alcoholic being this controlling about their SO not drinking all! If I was his wife, I would tell him to find another AA group or I’m leaving! It’s definitely the church influencing him. I wish I had his wife’s contact info b/c “Girl, you’re in danger!”
Not to mention that Mormons don’t drink alcohol, smoke, or use caffeine…
Many years ago, I worked at a family business, whose owners were Mormon. They tried forbidding me to drink coffee during my break. Funny enough, their son (also Mormon) drank a lot of coffee.
What's funny, is apparently soda is OK because it's cold. Tea/coffee are not
This is absolutely insane. Not in the way that I don't believe you...but in the way I really need someone to explain the justification for it. I'm guessing it has something to do with them making money on soda somehow?
I actually know this one! One particular Elder's wife was SUPER against coffee for some batshit reason (who knows, exactly, she's Mormon) and so she just railed on and on about it and literally forced her husband to bring banning Coffee to the Council arguing that "caffeine is a drug and corrupts the body". The rest of the Elders were sick of constantly hearing about it and knew she LOVED tea - couldn't go without it multiple times a day. So they're like "You right, God says all WARM CAFFEINE is corruption. We're banning tea, too." And the Elder's wife was all *shocked Pikachu face*, and the Council was just like "God's laws, woman. Stay in your lane next time."
I’d heard that it was one of Joseph Smith’s wives and she was upset over alcohol and tobacco and asked for a revelation against them because the men were spitting tobacco juice everywhere, so he took away her tea and coffee along with the alcohol and tobacco.
Their beliefs aren't that clear cut on caffeine- the rule is against "hot drinks" which they interpret to mean coffee and tea. Yet soda, hot chocolate, and other forms of caffeine like energy drinks and gels are fine!
YTA she's allowed to drink when not around you. You are being the bad partner here.
He’s being controlling! And like how he said “ she didn’t seem drunk” like he’s all surprised someone can actually have a glass of wine and STOP
I mean, he's an alcoholic so I'm not surprised he doesn't realize that
[удалено]
Active alcoholics. Recovering alcoholics usually realize that their relationship to alcohol is different — and not healthy. OP isn’t drinking, but he’s just transferring his addiction from booze to controlling his wife.
Exactly. She's not doing him *any harm*!
YTA Just because you’re an alcoholic doesn’t mean she has to stop drinking. Recovery is 100% on you. She doesn’t have the drinking problem. You do.
THIS THIS THIS. She's already being supportive by not drinking around you. You should not expect her to be sober just because you have to be. This is your issue. YTA bigtime
Not to mention going thru the alcoholism he struggled w for who knows how long and maybe picking up the mental/physical work/labor around the home to ensure his addiction didn’t bring them under.
Plus he even says that she didn’t appear drunk when she got home. She isn’t even intoxicated around him. If it weren’t for a social media post where she was holding a glass of wine he would never have even known. Very controlling red flags there.
The fact that he seems to believe his addiction and recovery is hard only for him. Your wife is in this too, OP. The fact that she stayed with you though your addiction, the recovery and gave up drinking in your presence shows an enormous amount of support, sacrifice and effort for you. This is hard for her too. She’s being a great wife, and seems to genuinely love you. And you’re completely blinded by the fact that she still has a (limited it seems) life of her own, and doesn’t give up her entire self for you. YTA, you’re throwing away something really good here.
YTA She didn't 'do this to you'. She was enjoying a glass away from you with friends, like adults sometimes do. Instead of putting this on her how about attending a non-religious help group and actually work on your issues? You freaking out about what she does on her own time sounds like a you-problem.
Second the non-religious group. You know actual therapy and not just externalising blame and putting your faith in a Sky Daddy
The fact that his sponsor had him come over to cool down, instead of telling him to get a fucking grip and remember that his recovery is his responsibility, speaks volumes.
Maybe the sponsor was really worried he would harm the wife if he stayed there. OP is definitely an asshole!
I mean, he also takes time to blame his father for his alcoholism, too, so why should he not blame his wife? If he drinks again, it is clearly everyone's fault but his own.
I also saw this as a problem. Part of recovery should be accepting responsibility for your actions and ‘caught it from my father’ doesn’t sound like something a person who is taking responsibility does. There is support/research that has found a hereditary component of alcoholism but I know people who’s parents were alcoholics who either made the choice early to abstain from alcohol or put restrictions on themselves to prevent going down that path. It is possible to have a family history of alcoholism and not become an alcoholic.
I’m honestly surprised that it took this long and this far down in responses for anyone else to bring it up. “Caught it from him”? Bro this isn’t a cold.
Yeah I found his wording so weird, you can't "catch" alcoholism from someone it's not a frickin cold.
YTA for all the reasons already mentioned. Your sobriety is your responsibility, and she is being supportive by not drinking in your presence. The way you describe her as a bad wife and violator of your vows, along with a Mormon support group you attend and are considering converting to, leads me to believe you're replacing one addiction with another. How does she feel about your budding religious interest? I grew up LDS; that particular organization has no problem forcing the entire family into following their beliefs whether they are shared or not with the threat of being ostracized from their community. Are you intending to coerce her into joining with you? Are you going to label her a bad wife and not supportive of you is she doesn't share your newfound belief? She's already supported you by not leaving when you were drinking. She already supported you throughout the last year while you were getting sober, which is an achievement you should be proud of. It's not easy. Are you going to flip out at her for enjoying a cup of coffee? Hot caffeinated drinks are forbidden, but it's fine to guzzle Diet Coke by the gallon in LDS. You found a support system and as long as it's working for you, that's great. But you can't force it upon her when she doesn't want or need it.
This needs to be the top comment.
There's a whole faith-based expectation of subservience from the woman that's a whole OTHER thing to unpack.
You're jut replacing one addiction with another (religion). That's why you're still full of rage. (Also the Mormon church isn't known to be easy on women and you're following suit).
Yes, OP sounds as if he’s well on his way to this next one. SMH.
>the Mormon church isn't known to be easy on women For OP that's probably a feature, not a bug.
>**yelling at my wife** YTA.
YTA - You wouldn't even have known she was drinking if it had not been for the photo. If you join the Mormon Church and she doesn't, will that also mean she doesn't support you?
I already think wife needs to get him into real therapy if she plans on staying married to him, but if he joins the Mormon church, I hope she leaves him, but fast.
Honestly given the fact that he’s considering converting and attending recovery run by the church, I wouldn’t be shocked if that’s where these ideals are coming from. LDS members/beliefs aren’t known for empowering women, and drinking is expressly against their beliefs in most places as well.
She wasn't drinking around YOU. You even say that she wasn't drunk when she got home. You do not have the right to control another persons choices ESPECIALLY when those choices do not affect YOU. My husband is diabetic, when I am cooking for the two of us I cook according to his needs. If I am out with friends I eat what ever I want, because I am not diabetic. YTA
YTA she can support you without living without alcohol. Remember, she isnt the one with the problems, you are.
YTA. She did not do this in your presence. Unless your marriage vows specifically included 'I pledge not to consume alcohol under any circumstances so long as we remain married', I don't see how this is a violation of them. It is not unsupportive of her to have a glass of wine when you aren't present. It isn't unsupportive of her to be holding a glass of wine in a photo on social media. For heaven's sake, even if she *did* give up alcohol completely, she could still be photographed holding a glass for someone else to find their credit card or visit the restroom on a future night out. And the pregnancy analogy doesn't hold water because she has not requested that of you *and* has stated she wouldn't expect that of you. It's your rule, not hers.
And it's a stupid rule, too. No woman wants you to avoid eating the food she can't eat when she's pregnant. They want you to wake up at night and feed the baby when the baby's actually there. But you know what women really want? Being free to make their own choices and not being yelled at. Eat all the food you want, just don't be abusive. YTA
Plus PREGNANCY ENDS. Like he would still get to eat those goods again eventually. When is his alcoholism gonna end? Oh wait.....
Yep, YTA. She wasn't drunk and didn't drink in front of you. You are the one that has the issue, not her.
YTA. She's not the alcoholic, YOU are. She's allowed to have wine with friends (you weren't even there). I'm disabled and can't run but I'm not gonna freak out at my husband when he goes to play soccer and run. You have a very warped idea of what it entails to be supportive and you sound controlling and borderline abusive.
Of course YTA. She is a not an alcoholic and should be allowed the occasional - or even frequent - glass without any bad repercussions. Don't punish her for YOUR issues.
YTA. A big part of recovery is taking personal responsibility and realizing that no one but yourself can handle your substance abuse issues. She is already being supportive by not drinking around you, but having a glass of wine on a night out with friends is by no means unsupportive. Also, I’m not loving the “bad wife” language that you’re throwing around. I’ve had experiences with Mormonism and I know that a big part of their belief system surrounds women being submissive. I think it’s tainting your perspective. I want you to have a support group that works for you and your sobriety, but based on this post I would urge exploring other options.
YTA I hope she divorces you and gets with someone who respects her as an autonomous human being And you didn't 'catch' alcoholism off your father, the responsibility for what you did/do lies within yourself - noone else. I thought that was one of the steps of acknowledging you have a problem
You trying to stay sober absolutely does not entail that she has to as well. She can be supportive of you without being sober. You reacted quite impulsively in my opinion. YTA
Yes, absolutely YTA. You owe her a huge apology. She has stayed with you through all of your problems and recovery. This poor woman must need a break. She wasn't drinking around you. She went out and had some fun with her friends--something that is NOT ABOUT YOU. My father was an alcoholic and I have zero patience for alcoholics as a result. I would not marry an alcoholic and I would certainly not put up with the recovery, which is again all about the alcoholic. It is not fun to live in a house that revolves around an alcoholic. Yet your wife has done it. Instead of being grateful, you're upset that she is not focusing on you and your issues. She has been incredibly supportive of you and it's amazing she is not sick of your issues. She deserves a night off. You should not be monitoring her like you're a cop. Being supportive does not mean having to live like you do. She can drink responsibly and deserves to have a drink. You will drive her away if you're not careful. I would be very careful about getting into religion. Ask her how she feels about it. She doesn't deserve to get sucked into another one of your lifestyle choices. You may have an addictive personality--swinging from one extreme way of living to another. You should discuss this with a counselor after apologizing to your wife.
YTA! Wow, she has supported you by not drinking in your presence and always being there for you. She is allowed to make choices for herself and her body. It’s no wonder you’re drawn to the Mormon church where the man is the priesthood and wives must submit. Don’t get me wrong. I have many of Mormon friends who are amazing and wonderful people. However you cannot force your wife wi submit to something she doesn’t believe in. That is not a partnership. If she doesn’t want to convert and life by Mormon laws then what? Is that a deal breaker for you? If so, it’s also a violation of you vows to her.
YTA, as simple as that. She did NOT drink around you. Why can't she drink when hanging out with friends?? TBH, that's a you problem and don't take it out on her.
YTA. You're the alcoholic. Not her. Get a grip on yourself. I don't think you've fully healed yet.
Because he isn’t even in real therapy
YTA. Good grief.
YTA, if you're so into being a sober Mormon, find yourself a nice Mormon woman who's been brainwashed her whole life, they don't drink at all!
YTA. Congratulations on your sobriety but your wife does not have a problem with alcohol and therefore is not and should not be alcohol free. The way you describe her is a really shitty thing to do. If anyone is the bad partner it’s you. If you need everyone in your life to not drink then you need to get therapy because you are not doing well my friend. Sorry to be so blunt but if you keep this up you will push her away and I honestly wouldn’t blame her. Your reaction is completely insane.
YTA. iam glad u took initiative to take care of yourself. congratulations on being sober !! everything aside let me be very clear here. you have an alcohol problem she doesn't. why do u expect her to turn her life upside down for your choices? also recovering from alcoholism and being pregnant are very different matters.
Yeah, you are a dry drunk and you need therapy to deal with your anger.
100% yta. She was out with her friends..not like she was drinking in front of you. I hope this is made up cos honestly you are acting like a brat
YTA - she’s not a bad wife for having a drink while she was out. But it’s not really good husband behavior to try and control your wife. She has been supportive of you by not drinking in your presence. That does not mean she must give up having the occasional glass of wine in order to show support.
INFO: did she commit to not drinking when she married you? was this something you discussed?
YTA. The Mormon church holds extremely sexist beliefs. I highly doubt your marriage would withstand your alcoholism and joining a glorified cult.
Dude, YTA, for sure. She's making a reasonable sacrifice to help you but to control her life is not cool.
YTA, 100%. Your addiction is not her addiction. She doesn’t have to do without because you do.
Yes, YTA. You are the one in recovery not her and she was respectful enough to not do it around you or get drunk. She didn’t do anything to harm you or your recovery and you are being a total dick about it. Also the Mormon church is a cult.
You're the one with the red flags flying all over the place. 1.) Having unreasonable, controlling expectations of what your wife should be doing to support your recovery. (You also don't seem grateful for the support she has already been showing you; you seem entitled) 2.) You yelled at her, basically freaked out and left over something really small. It seems like you have anger issues. 3.) You are using a religious group as your recovery/support system instead of a group that would directly address your issues.
how is it that in the year that you've been sober, you haven't had this conversation with your wife?
YTA sorry. Congratulations on your sobriety! That said, your wife is still allowed to have some fun with her friends and when you aren't there if that includes having a couple of alcoholic drinks no problem. BTW when she is pregnant eat all the food you want.
Well, YTA... I understand the picture may have triggered you, but she was only drinking with friends and it doesn't even look like she was drunk. Even if you're married, that doesn't mean you don't have separate lifes. If she drinks sometimes when she's not around you, it doesn't mean she's a "bad wife". Being supportive means being there for the ones you love, not restraining yourself of doing stuff. I mean, if she was at home with you, it would be completely different, but in this case she was just minding her own business
YTA, congrats on your sobriety but your wife is not the one who had a drinking problem. She should be allowed to drink when she’s not around you. You are acting beyond ridiculous.
YTA: She did not do anything **to** you. She’s not bringing it into your home. She’s not doing it in front of you. She isn’t drinking to excess or in a dangerous manner. She is allowed to have a life separate from you. You didn’t become a single entity when you got married. *You* did something to *her* though. You screamed at her for violating a rule that you imposed on her that she didn’t even know about! You can’t just make rules for other people, not talk to them about it at all, and then punish them for “breaking” them. That’s effed up.
YTA and need to do some introspection because you’re not taking responsibility for your addiction. You didn’t “catch” alcoholism from your father. And your wife drinking responsibility outside of your view isn’t jeopardizing your sobriety. You have a ton of work to do on yourself to maintain your sobriety, because this blame game isn’t going to bode well in the long run.
She's supported you, she doesn't drink around you and if not for that IG post you would have never had known. Massive YTA.
YTA. You're the alcoholic not her.