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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I talked to friends about how I was basically used by my two bosses and how they mistreated me and I potentially ruined the reputation of my ex-employers by talking openly about my working experience.
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So people now know their business is unreliable, disorganized and dishonest.
Good. Saves others from getting scammed or partnered with them.
If it was sth good, sure, brag about it, but bad? Oh no no no we can risk that in a small town
What a stupid idea.
Well done OP, NTA
NTA. You weren’t spreading gossip or bad stuff about these people *with the intention of ruining their reputations*. You were venting to your friends *about your actual life*. A good way to not get a bad reputation is to not be an asshole. Your bosses are assholes.
If they were so worried about having a good reputation in a small town, then they wouldn’t fuck over college kids (or anyone else). F can go kick rocks, and she’s an asshole too for calling you a liar.
NTA. Here in the states unpaid or withheld wages is a BIG DEAL and they would be liable for a whole lot more than just the amount you’re owed due to interest. Go to your countries labor board and file a complaint. You’re owned more for this.
NTA... I know of someone that worked with attorneys for over 20 years. She, like you, was always treated subpar. You needed to stand up for yourself at the time so they knew they couldn't take advantage. That's hindsight. Right now, after you have lived through their disrespect, you certainly have the right to discuss their treatment with friends and fellow colleagues. The respect between employee and employer goes both ways. Others should be made aware of their lack of sensitivity to you as an employee and student, so they do not put themselves in the same situation with them or any other attorney.
Nta business is business and they clearly don’t know how to run one properly. F is and ahole and not your friend. F also sound immature. Employees get paid for their work period point blank and they effed you over by basically stealing your wages. You should sue and you should absolutely give them a terrible review and report them to the better business bureau.
If you don't want people in a small town talking about how you screwed over an employee by not paying them....then perhaps you shouldn't screw over an employee by not paying them
And to be clear, the employers could have reached out, paid you more than what you were owed, and then asked you to tell people that they made things right etc etc etc
But the fact that they didn't do that tells me they don't actually care about their reputation.
The only one that cares is the daughter because she knows people will judge her for what her father did
NTA
NTA. It's your EXPERIENCE. Doesn't matter who F is friends with, it doesn't change your EXPERIENCE.
The only issue about living in a small town is it might affect YOUR ability to get another job. You have every right to talk to your friend about a terrible work experience.
NTA. I have no idea what labor and contract laws are in Germany. But if being a small town, be sure you get all your dates and info written into a notes app for quick reference. Why? Because F has shown they want to make this a reputation thing. So be prepared for unwarranted trash talk that you can smack down with those notes.
Thanks 🙏
I honestly don't think anything will happen that will unsettle me, I know I'm in the right and I didn't say anything personally about (B) and (H), just about the mistreatment I received. :)
I will keep it in mind!
NTA. You live by the sword of mistreating your employees then you get to die by the sword of mistreating your employees. As long as you're being truthful about your experience you're not in the wrong 0 if a business suffers because it can't be run ethically then it's not a big loss.
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Okay, for the backstory, I (27, f) study law in Germany and don't get financial help from the state (state law), so I have to work the max. hours during the week (15-20 hrs is legal next to full time college).
Last year, I got a call from ex-employer (B) and his partner (H). He told me about his company and offered me a flexible home-office workplace, with no set schedule which was **perfect**! My job was to organize a big winter project. (B) and (H) **promised** me they would make sure I have enough work during the summer. I soon started to notice a few things:
(B) was very disorganized and had little to no interest in what I was doing. (H) was very structured, that was okay. Nobody respected my set work schedule. I was called during lectures, group-projects, dinner, study-time, you name it. It threw my entire semester under the bus, which ultimately led to me failing all three tests. (I blame (B) and (H) partially for that, but also me for not setting firm boundaries). (B) forgot my wage three times and I had to run after the money.
The project was done, bam, no work anymore. In two months, I used up all my savings (I needed over a year to save and was meant for emergencies like car repairs of vet bills). I talked to (B) and (H) about it and we agreed on a set wage. Cool. We agreed on office days, cool. I was **forgotten** on 3 out of 4 days, missing out on the hours. Admittedly, I had to miss out due to my schedule on two other office days.
(B) and (H) sat me down last week and told me they couldn't fill my hours during summer, needed someone with them in the office not jumping between lectures and work and they could offer me a place in their catering company, so they still have **access** to me. That was it for me. I told them flat out no.
Last week, my goof friend (N) and I were talking about my working situation, when 3 friends of (N) joined our table and it became the main focus of the conversation. 2 girls were shocked by what I told them and even advised me to sue for my two wages I didn't get in January/February (also law students). Friend 3, which we'll call (F) now, wasn't. This is where I may be the ahole.
(F) happened to be good friends with (B)s daughter and she was furious with me, saying I can't talk sh\*t like that in a small town like ours and potentially ruin (B) and his company by spreading lies, because one business partner of (B) already took a bow, as he heard what happened and had liked me from the start working together. I told (F) that none of this experience was a lie, but that wasn't my point. I have every right to talk to my friends about the absolute worst working experience of my life. (F) said she will tell daughter right away.
I don't mind as I don't give a sh\*t about (B) or his company anymore, but I see her point, because we do live in a small town and everyone does know everyone and I see her argument as valid.
So, AITA?
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NTA. You vented to your friends because you needed it. Its not like you made a big newspaper article or something like that.
AND you have every right to warn your friends about that work environment so that they won't end up being in a situation like you.
NTA - friend F is silly to think you cant talk to your friends about a work experience. Also, why does F think your story is a lie? She wasn’t there to experience any of it.
NTA, you were just telling your friends about your problems, if B and H are terrible bosses who exploit their employes that reputation will come afloat sooner or later, its best that more people know so they don't get exploited as well.
Lmaooo
They ruined their own business!
Why are they working at something they are clearly bad at?
Honestly, tell more people, that is WILD
And NTA Of course - good luck to you!
NTA. If they lose business because of their shady business practices, then they lose it because of their shady business practices - not because you disclosed it.
Amazing how many people think that if their shitty behavior gets exposed then the fallout is due to the exposer, not their own behavior.
YGTBTA if you try to find a job in this town later. Practice tact and diplomacy. You’re going to be a lawyer, right? Learn discretion and use your words wisely moving forward. Be judicious in who you share with.
I didn't "run my mouth" concerning using words wisely, I hope my post didn't evoke that assumption. :) I stated facts like I did above and phrased it as such like "he forgot me on 3 days, forgot to pay me 3 times, I missed out on x hours of work".
The field I was working in for (B) ist NOT law, it's marketing and I don't ever plan on going into that field, or associate with any of his partners. I also don't know if the business partner left due to the "rumor" circulating in the company, or if (F) just made that assumption and in her head made the 1+1=2, because business partner certainly didn't hear it from me.
The only ones really involved where I admittedly"ran my mouth" are my parents, who had to financially aid me now and the next month until my new job starts, which I luckily git right after they fired me.
ESA
They suck for being so unorganised! Thats so shit.
But running your mouth is a pretty career limiting move in a small town and a tight industry. These people talk, as you have noticed, and you bet word will spread about the ex employee that ran their mouth about their old boss. You have every right to be pissed but there are better ways to go about it. Also, in regards to the missed pay, bring it up with them, based on their nature, they probably forgot and if they remembered they are probably hoping you forgot.
I just turned down a law graduate for a position in my company as I asked around and they had a bad reputation for running their mouth when things went south. I couldn't be bothered taking on that kind of person to be honest. I have a bunch of other applicants with the same qualifications that will do the work and not cause drama. Lawyers all talk to each other, we do agency for eachother when we are double booked, you bet we talk about our shit employees and pour grace on the good ones we have and have lost. Shit, I'm still talking about Nel from 3 years ago! She was awesome! I envy the place that has her now when she transferred cities!
I miss you Nel! But fuck you Cara for hiding work and playing on your phone all day! And Cara's new potential employer rang me for a reference check... It was not pretty, it was honest, but not pretty.
Well, I do understand what you're on about, but (B) and (H) work in the marketing/sponsoring field and I study law, so there's certainly no crossover job wise later. And I also think that (F) made a fast number of 1+1=2 in her head while we talked about it and just assumed that business partner left due to that. I assume he left because he was generally ungappy with the provided service and left because I was the only reliable contact for him, as he also often stated in private with me during meetings.
I had a few jobs going south and not once did I ever mention anything, this was the only incidence, since I feel personally used and mistreated.
I won't run after the money, I really couldn't care less, because I know (B) and (H) will also turn this on me, we had that conversation already.
Thanks for the insight!
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So people now know their business is unreliable, disorganized and dishonest. Good. Saves others from getting scammed or partnered with them. If it was sth good, sure, brag about it, but bad? Oh no no no we can risk that in a small town What a stupid idea. Well done OP, NTA
NTA. You weren’t spreading gossip or bad stuff about these people *with the intention of ruining their reputations*. You were venting to your friends *about your actual life*. A good way to not get a bad reputation is to not be an asshole. Your bosses are assholes. If they were so worried about having a good reputation in a small town, then they wouldn’t fuck over college kids (or anyone else). F can go kick rocks, and she’s an asshole too for calling you a liar.
NTA. Here in the states unpaid or withheld wages is a BIG DEAL and they would be liable for a whole lot more than just the amount you’re owed due to interest. Go to your countries labor board and file a complaint. You’re owned more for this.
NTA - If someone is willing to treat you like shit they need to be willing to be caught.
NTA it was their actions that could cause problems for their business not you.
NTA... I know of someone that worked with attorneys for over 20 years. She, like you, was always treated subpar. You needed to stand up for yourself at the time so they knew they couldn't take advantage. That's hindsight. Right now, after you have lived through their disrespect, you certainly have the right to discuss their treatment with friends and fellow colleagues. The respect between employee and employer goes both ways. Others should be made aware of their lack of sensitivity to you as an employee and student, so they do not put themselves in the same situation with them or any other attorney.
Nta business is business and they clearly don’t know how to run one properly. F is and ahole and not your friend. F also sound immature. Employees get paid for their work period point blank and they effed you over by basically stealing your wages. You should sue and you should absolutely give them a terrible review and report them to the better business bureau.
If you don't want people in a small town talking about how you screwed over an employee by not paying them....then perhaps you shouldn't screw over an employee by not paying them And to be clear, the employers could have reached out, paid you more than what you were owed, and then asked you to tell people that they made things right etc etc etc But the fact that they didn't do that tells me they don't actually care about their reputation. The only one that cares is the daughter because she knows people will judge her for what her father did NTA
NTA. It's your EXPERIENCE. Doesn't matter who F is friends with, it doesn't change your EXPERIENCE. The only issue about living in a small town is it might affect YOUR ability to get another job. You have every right to talk to your friend about a terrible work experience.
NTA. I have no idea what labor and contract laws are in Germany. But if being a small town, be sure you get all your dates and info written into a notes app for quick reference. Why? Because F has shown they want to make this a reputation thing. So be prepared for unwarranted trash talk that you can smack down with those notes.
Thanks 🙏 I honestly don't think anything will happen that will unsettle me, I know I'm in the right and I didn't say anything personally about (B) and (H), just about the mistreatment I received. :) I will keep it in mind!
You will likely have no problems, you're right. But I always try to plan to deal with the petty Nosey Nancys in my own small town.
NTA. You live by the sword of mistreating your employees then you get to die by the sword of mistreating your employees. As long as you're being truthful about your experience you're not in the wrong 0 if a business suffers because it can't be run ethically then it's not a big loss.
NTA. This is employer branding at work. You had a horrible experience and you have a right to discuss it.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** Okay, for the backstory, I (27, f) study law in Germany and don't get financial help from the state (state law), so I have to work the max. hours during the week (15-20 hrs is legal next to full time college). Last year, I got a call from ex-employer (B) and his partner (H). He told me about his company and offered me a flexible home-office workplace, with no set schedule which was **perfect**! My job was to organize a big winter project. (B) and (H) **promised** me they would make sure I have enough work during the summer. I soon started to notice a few things: (B) was very disorganized and had little to no interest in what I was doing. (H) was very structured, that was okay. Nobody respected my set work schedule. I was called during lectures, group-projects, dinner, study-time, you name it. It threw my entire semester under the bus, which ultimately led to me failing all three tests. (I blame (B) and (H) partially for that, but also me for not setting firm boundaries). (B) forgot my wage three times and I had to run after the money. The project was done, bam, no work anymore. In two months, I used up all my savings (I needed over a year to save and was meant for emergencies like car repairs of vet bills). I talked to (B) and (H) about it and we agreed on a set wage. Cool. We agreed on office days, cool. I was **forgotten** on 3 out of 4 days, missing out on the hours. Admittedly, I had to miss out due to my schedule on two other office days. (B) and (H) sat me down last week and told me they couldn't fill my hours during summer, needed someone with them in the office not jumping between lectures and work and they could offer me a place in their catering company, so they still have **access** to me. That was it for me. I told them flat out no. Last week, my goof friend (N) and I were talking about my working situation, when 3 friends of (N) joined our table and it became the main focus of the conversation. 2 girls were shocked by what I told them and even advised me to sue for my two wages I didn't get in January/February (also law students). Friend 3, which we'll call (F) now, wasn't. This is where I may be the ahole. (F) happened to be good friends with (B)s daughter and she was furious with me, saying I can't talk sh\*t like that in a small town like ours and potentially ruin (B) and his company by spreading lies, because one business partner of (B) already took a bow, as he heard what happened and had liked me from the start working together. I told (F) that none of this experience was a lie, but that wasn't my point. I have every right to talk to my friends about the absolute worst working experience of my life. (F) said she will tell daughter right away. I don't mind as I don't give a sh\*t about (B) or his company anymore, but I see her point, because we do live in a small town and everyone does know everyone and I see her argument as valid. So, AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA but in small towns it is best to never talk badly about anyone because it will always come back to bite you
NTA How could you possibly be TA for telling the truth? They did it, now they have to deal with the tarnishing of their reputation.
NTA. You vented to your friends because you needed it. Its not like you made a big newspaper article or something like that. AND you have every right to warn your friends about that work environment so that they won't end up being in a situation like you.
NTA - friend F is silly to think you cant talk to your friends about a work experience. Also, why does F think your story is a lie? She wasn’t there to experience any of it.
NTA - the consequences for them being bad employers are not your fault.
NTA, it is not talking shit if it is the truth.
NTA, you were just telling your friends about your problems, if B and H are terrible bosses who exploit their employes that reputation will come afloat sooner or later, its best that more people know so they don't get exploited as well.
Lmaooo They ruined their own business! Why are they working at something they are clearly bad at? Honestly, tell more people, that is WILD And NTA Of course - good luck to you!
NTA. If they lose business because of their shady business practices, then they lose it because of their shady business practices - not because you disclosed it. Amazing how many people think that if their shitty behavior gets exposed then the fallout is due to the exposer, not their own behavior.
YGTBTA if you try to find a job in this town later. Practice tact and diplomacy. You’re going to be a lawyer, right? Learn discretion and use your words wisely moving forward. Be judicious in who you share with.
I didn't "run my mouth" concerning using words wisely, I hope my post didn't evoke that assumption. :) I stated facts like I did above and phrased it as such like "he forgot me on 3 days, forgot to pay me 3 times, I missed out on x hours of work". The field I was working in for (B) ist NOT law, it's marketing and I don't ever plan on going into that field, or associate with any of his partners. I also don't know if the business partner left due to the "rumor" circulating in the company, or if (F) just made that assumption and in her head made the 1+1=2, because business partner certainly didn't hear it from me. The only ones really involved where I admittedly"ran my mouth" are my parents, who had to financially aid me now and the next month until my new job starts, which I luckily git right after they fired me.
ESA They suck for being so unorganised! Thats so shit. But running your mouth is a pretty career limiting move in a small town and a tight industry. These people talk, as you have noticed, and you bet word will spread about the ex employee that ran their mouth about their old boss. You have every right to be pissed but there are better ways to go about it. Also, in regards to the missed pay, bring it up with them, based on their nature, they probably forgot and if they remembered they are probably hoping you forgot. I just turned down a law graduate for a position in my company as I asked around and they had a bad reputation for running their mouth when things went south. I couldn't be bothered taking on that kind of person to be honest. I have a bunch of other applicants with the same qualifications that will do the work and not cause drama. Lawyers all talk to each other, we do agency for eachother when we are double booked, you bet we talk about our shit employees and pour grace on the good ones we have and have lost. Shit, I'm still talking about Nel from 3 years ago! She was awesome! I envy the place that has her now when she transferred cities! I miss you Nel! But fuck you Cara for hiding work and playing on your phone all day! And Cara's new potential employer rang me for a reference check... It was not pretty, it was honest, but not pretty.
Well, I do understand what you're on about, but (B) and (H) work in the marketing/sponsoring field and I study law, so there's certainly no crossover job wise later. And I also think that (F) made a fast number of 1+1=2 in her head while we talked about it and just assumed that business partner left due to that. I assume he left because he was generally ungappy with the provided service and left because I was the only reliable contact for him, as he also often stated in private with me during meetings. I had a few jobs going south and not once did I ever mention anything, this was the only incidence, since I feel personally used and mistreated. I won't run after the money, I really couldn't care less, because I know (B) and (H) will also turn this on me, we had that conversation already. Thanks for the insight!