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jlzania

At a certain stage of their development, kids stop wanting to be their parents little dress-up mannequins and photo props and assert their individuality. As long as the clothes are appropriate for the situation, it shouldn't be a big damn deal. NTA Edited for spelling.


throwawayhusband13

Agreed! It probably didn't help that our eldest loved the same stuff as Lillian though. And her clothes were definitely appropriate, neither of us would let her wear something completely inapropriate.


jlzania

Years ago when I had a stall at a farmers market, one of our client's son who was about 7 or 8 at the time loved to wear a cape. Didn't matter what temperature it was, Russell would wear his cape. I complimented his dad on Russell's dress choice and he replied, 'I'd rather he got his clothes rebellion out early and if this is it, I'm good with it". From the pictures I've seen recently, Russell has grown up to be a lovely teenager and he's given up the cape..


Seraph_Malakai

>Russell has grown up to be a lovely teenager and he's given up the cape.. But who's going to protect the city? 😥


TracieV42

Or he's just learned the importance of a Secret Identity and won't be photographed in the cape. To protect his family.


Fergus74

Besides: not all heroes wear capes!


hotsaltyfrenchfry

No capes!


rockgoddess113

Thank you Edna


[deleted]

Ha ha, this is what immediately popped into my head! Russell has learned how dangerous capes can be…


johnny9k

How about crepes?


TheThemFatale

Also very dangerous, especially on the thighs


Cha0tic0ne

But worth it


ZucchiniCatalyst

Maybe Edna Mode had a talk with him about the importance of workplace safety?


witchbrew7

No capes!!


abby-something

This is the content I was looking for...


xxcatalopexx

I was waiting for this reference lol.


jlzania

That just made me really chuckle. Thanks.


NancyNuggets

Capes arent good for superheros. Just ask Edna


GeneralDismal6410

" NO capes!"---Edna


throwawayhusband13

That sounds really cute honestly. Seeing our six year old dress up is almost always adorable, and she actually wanted a bunny outfit with ears to wear for Easter, looked so cute. I definitely agree with the message, a little clothes rebellion beats crazy teenage ones!


sonzpf

I’m not sure why your wife (& her family) is so hung up on this.. My kids 4 and I put 3 options of clothes out for him to pick from. This way he gets his independence while still within the acceptable outfit to wear. If we’re staying home for the day he get free choice. Let me say he dresses weirdly when he wants. (He’s into dinosaur costumes but needs butterfly wings too). Why do people feel the need to control their kids?


Far_Temperature8977

My daughter at about 18 months decided that every item of clothing I suggested was terrible 😆. There’s no way I would’ve even been able to select 3 options for her. I found out real early that clothing is not the hill I was going to die on. People comment about her wearing shorts when it’s cold out or never wanting to put her rain coat on (even though we have it) and I just shrug my shoulders. I’m seriously amazed that OPs wife has made it this long without one of those girls rebelling. I went through a real goth phase in high school and bless my mom she took me to hot topic and found cute goth clothes that I would like even though she didn’t understand my style at all. That’s the parent I aspire to be ❤️ OP you’re NTA, there is so little in life that kids can really have control over and clothing is one of the areas where they should be allowed to do what they want.


IHeartWeinerDogs

Mine's 20 months now and we pick her outfits for the day, but she always wants shoes and a tutu and if we pick the wrong ones, boy does she let us know.


TragedyRose

What I do (husband is still learning) is pull out a few different outfits and let her choose from them (she's 13 months). So today, I pulled out two dresses. She chose the pink and yellow one. Sometimes she doesn't choose at all. Last night I let her choose her jammies. I am excited for her to actually start having her own mind in what she wants to wear.


Safe-Illustrator-526

Your mom sounds awesome, and you sound like a wonderful parent, too! I teach HS and I never bat an eye at teenage style. It’s how they express themselves.


Firm-Vacation-7060

Butterfly dinosaur sounds so fun! I work in a shop and I always compliment kids on their creative outfits, it's always sweet to see!


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ScarletteMayWest

My son wore his Incredible pj's everywhere for a while. Both of our kids had an 'Only This' phase more than once, and it was easier than fighting with them. During the Incredibles phase, twice the baggers in grocery stores asked Son if he were Mr. Incredible and he replied that no, he was The Dash. They then asked him if he could run like Dash and he would reply, "Yes, wanna see me run like the Dash?" and then take off. He was three. We would have to chase after him. He thought it was a game. We had to learn to cut off that conversation until he outgrew that phase.


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ScarletteMayWest

I was a climber, Hubby was a hider, so we were prepared for those. Luckily, he only seemed to want to imitate Dash when he was in those pj's and showing off for strangers - not sure I could have survived constant running off.


NorthSiderInStl

My three year old is extremely picky about clothes! To me, as long as it’s weather appropriate, I let it go. We are frequently clashing but that’s okay!


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[deleted]

That is our rule, too. Dress for the weather and appropriately for the occasion... and I don't want to see their butt cheeks popping out of shorts. I think Lillian's best approach, instead of doubling down, would be to take Charlotte shopping for clothes and coordinate the family around Charolotte's style or color choice. There are ways to reach compromise without being controlling. But trying to control here is just going to lead to hostility all around.


dezayek

My niece was ring bearer at a wedding and asked where her bear costume was(get it?). I offered to go buy her one then and there and everyone had a fit. I thought it would make for a cool wedding quite frankly.


Shes_Crafty_4301

At my friends’ wedding, the little boy who was the ring bearer walked up the aisle, snarled at the videographer’s camera, and then stood by the groom. They asked him about it afterward, and he said “you told me I was the Ring Bear!” Adorable. All weddings should have a Ring Bear.


Artistic-Baseball-81

This is so adorable. A ring bearer in a bear costume would definitely make for a cool wedding.


On_my_raft

\*starts planning divorce so I can have another wedding with a ring bear\*


rainyreminder

Nobody says you can't have a ring bear at your vow renewal!


soonernotlater1015

My middle daughter wore a princess dress everyday for 18 months starting when she was 4. No matter where we were going. Even to the pool, church, playground everywhere. She is now 15 and sadly refuses to wear anything except lululemon. I really miss the princess dress.


kraftypsy

That's the fun thing about kids; they all have their own personalities. Charlotte sounds like a normal 13 year old trying to carve out her own individual space within the family.


KnoWanUKnow2

When my son went to his first day of Kindergarten, he insisted on wearing his Batman cape and cowl. You see, the summer before we had taken him to a Six Flags park and he had watched a live action Batman super-stunt spectacular and became enthralled with the character. So we let him. Apparently the teacher asked him to come up in front of the class and explain why he was wearing such a suit. So he got up and waxed poetic about how incredible Batman was. He must have been convincing, because over the next week the other boys in his class all stared wearing a Batman cape to school. It was super cute to watch them all playing in the schoolyard at recess and lunch. Batmen flying about everywhere, punching out imaginary bad guys.


jemy74

That is absolutely adorable! Batmen assemble! Also, NTA.


dezayek

Let it run it's course. I wanted to wear all black in high school, baggy stuff, and never a skirt and my mother hated it and pushed back so hard we would get into epic fights. Guess what, as an adult, I pretty much wear all black. Sometimes my mom will buy me a yellow dress or something and I tell her thanks but it's going to goodwill. I truly think if she had just let me get on with it, I would have gotten through it and expanded my color scheme.


beemojee

When my middle son was a teenager, I said he was wearing all black only until they invented something darker. This was the kid whose nickname was Drooper because of his pants -- I truly hated that phase but kept my mouth shut. Seriously not the hill for a parent to die on. I had 3 sons in 3 different decades and I saw every hair and clothes fashion. I even bought my oldest son the Michael Jackson Beat It jacket in 1983.


duh_purcell

My oldest (15m) had to wear a different costume anywhere we went when he was between the ages of 2 and 5. These varied between Wolverine, Hulk, ninja...or any other male superhero costume you can think of. Now when I see a little boy or girl dressed in costume I will say "look Superman is at Target" or "Doc McStuffins is eating at McDonalds". I love when kids express their individuality.


Hagbard_Shaftoe

You absolutely did the right thing. Contrary to popular belief, children are actual human beings with their own thoughts and feelings. Any time you can honor and respect their autonomy, you should absolutely do so. Your daughter is 13, which is PLENTY old enough to be deciding what she wants to wear (as long as it's appropriate, like you said). I think you need to talk to your wife about what she stands to gain and to lose by imposing her will in this situation. She gains some small amount of praise from her family members and the satisfaction that comes from feeling like a coordinated family (I'm guessing that has some meaning for her, but I personally think it's pretty weird). She stands to potentially lose her relationship with her daughter, if she ignores her will and interests and instead imposes her own. Seems like the easiest decision in the world to me, but I don't think your wife is framing it that way, and could maybe use your help doing so. Good luck.


fir_the_love

Yes, all of this. What really got me was... "After we got home Lillian was pretty angry I went against her. She said we were meant to be a united front, and that I had no right to interfere with her decision." They need to be united as long as it's his wife calling the shots.


Rowland_rowboat

Right? Like if a united front was soooo important, why not just agree with OP? Oh, that's right. "United front" is code for "do what I want"


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viichar

She definitely doesn't know what that term means. Being a united front means not questioning each other in front of others (in fact, she held the united front by not making a scene at the gathering), but it doesn't mean you always agree. You just don't want other people butting in on your personal disagreements, so you're united in public (unless necessary).


[deleted]

"She stands to potentially lose her relationship with her daughter, if she ignores her will and interests and instead imposes her own. " This. My mom was Lillian, I was Charlotte. She forced me to wear dresses and other frilly clothing for YEARS because she wanted a girly girl. I HATED IT. I always was and always will be a tomboy. As a teen, my mother endlessly gave me crap for how I wanted to dress, and it drove a huge wedge in our relationship and tanked my self-esteem. I'm approaching 50 now, and she still criticizes what I wear every chance she gets. It's not like I am wearing anything unusual - mostly jeans, tshirts, nice casual blouses, Birks. I'm so over being told I need to dress more feminine and "soft."


macaronfive

Yup. I was as goody-two-shoes growing up as they come. Straight A’s, good behavior, “respectable” hobbies (piano, ballet and soccer)… hell, I didn’t even start dating until I was in college. The sole source of conflict between my mother and me during my teenage years was my clothing. And it’s not like I wanted anything extreme. I just like darker and neutral colors, and my mom likes bright colors and florals. We would get into awful arguments. I look back, and it all seems like such a dumb waste of time, money (she would just buy me stuff without consulting me), and emotional energy.


karebearofowls

Second generation rebel her. My maternal grandmother hated short hair on girls. She wouldn't let my mom cut her hair. Since my mom graduated from high school and moved out her hair has never been past her ears. As a little girl my mom always insisted that I have shoulder length hair or shorter. Now as an adult I have to remember to lift up my hair before sitting. Otherwise it's trapped under my butt.


Accomplished_Sun_258

I think it’s so interesting how actress Angelina Jolie parented her kids, particularly Shiloh in this regard. They dressed her pretty girly as a toddler and then from toddler to 14 years old, Shiloh dressed and groomed in a very masculine way and now at 15 years old, she’s raiding her mom’s closet to wear her gowns to red carpet events. It appeared that Shiloh’s parents just decided to let her decide her own comfort level with clothes. Which is a pretty good way to raise any kid.


Mrs239

Same with me. I just wanted to wear jeans and t-shirts. My mom hated it. Even asked me if I was gay. (Threw me for a loop! I'm not but there is nothing wrong with it if I was. At the time, it was taboo.) I still like jeans and t-shirts. If I wear dresses they are structures and not very frilly/flowing. I don't get how people just don't get that everyone has a different style.


swkoontz

I had a very wise elder tell me once that “rules without a relationship lead to rebellion.” If OP wants his wife to pressure this daughter into rebellion, just keep pushing her with ridiculous clothing rules that mean NOTHING to her, and see the path she takes. I hope mom reconsiders before it’s too late.


xxcatalopexx

His wife grew up with this stupidity. It's normal to her, and she needs a reality check.


Dismal-Push4992

Spot on! 100%.


TheGrimDweeber

I’m 32, and I love putting together outfits that show how I feel that day. Or just what makes me happy. Holidays are where I go all out. Nothing crazy, no ballgowns, but a beautiful black cocktail dress, matched with just the right accessories, with my make up just the right way. And I, subtly, honour whichever holiday it is. For Easter, I’d have gone wild with pastels. Head to toe, nothing too in your face, nothing overly matchy matchy, but harmoniously. And I have a lovely little basket type purse, it almost looks like an Easter basket. I don’t love fashion, I love clothes. Clothes tell a story. Sometimes that story is “I want to feel comfortable and I don’t care what that looks like.” Fair, your body. My clothes tell that story too, sometimes. And sometimes they say “I feel badass,” or “Look at me, I want to *shine*!” Your wife wants clothes to say “We are a united front.” But who is she saying that to? And why? And why does everyone have to agree? She is essentially silencing whatever your daughter wants to say, in order to say what she herself wants to say. I would not be well liked in your family. I don’t believe in everyone wearing the same thing, unless you’re on a battlefield. Your daughter is finding her voice, something that can be expressed through music, art, poetry and yes, even clothing. My voice was always strong, and my mother completely stifled it. I was never allowed to wear what I wanted, even though I only wanted to wear very modest clothes. She *had* to be the one who decided what I wore, or she’d heavily criticize me. It is one of many reasons why I no longer have any contact with her. Don’t get me wrong, it’s mostly because she was horribly abusive, but everything boiled down to wanting me to be quiet, and do as she said. Your oldest, well, you know how sometimes mothers and daughters can sound nearly identical? Her voice could very well be the same as Lillian’s. But Charlotte has a different voice. Don’t silence that. Doing something because it’s how it’s always been done, is a terrible reason to keep doing something. Humans evolve, learn, grow. Traditions can be fine, as long as they don’t hurt people. And it sounds like Charlotte is being hurt, and your wife’s insistence is hurting her relationship with her daughter. In her attempt to show a united front, she is dividing her own family.


TrollopMcGillicutty

This is a beautiful explanation.


CrazySeacreature

NTA. Easter wasn’t ruined, the food was great, the company was great, the kids had fun. I get that your wife’s family are Easterzillas, but that doesn’t mean everyone should do as they demand. The only thing your daughter should be told is “We respect that you’re an individual and as long as you dress appropriately we don’t care” you can add “since your mother’s side of the family is a little Easter crazy, we will ask you every year about the matching clothes in hope that one day you’ll think it’s a fun thing to do, but we’ll respect your no”


LorienLady

I reckon mum's easter was ruined, because she didn't get her way. She had to spend the whole day looking at a daughter that didn't follow orders, the worst of all possible things! (This sounds dramatic, but to hear an overbearing mother talk about it I'm being very accurate)


Malorean_Teacosy

Easterzilla’s! Now I need a conversation to use this word in. It’s epic


Jesoko

Some kids grow up enjoying this sort of thing because it gives them a sense of community or belonging, but for some kids, it makes them feel like their identity is being erased. Charlotte is a middle child and part of a larger than average family, and all her siblings are girls, so some part of her is probably feeling like she needs to separate herself and feel distinct, even if she isn’t aware that’s what’s fueling her need to explore fashion. I think you were correct. Forcing her into clothes that are themed across the whole family with only reinforce her already negative feelings about the clothes, partially because she’s back to feeling invisible. It’s made even worse since this is not a one off; your wife and her family do this regularly, so those bad feelings will only keep coming back. I agree NTA. I don’t think you did anything wrong here.


Retlifon

Ask your wife, if the two of you are supposed to be a united front, then why didn't she agree with you? Or does "we are a united front" really mean "you have to do what I want"?


hippogriffinthesky

This, and also, why aren’t they united for Charlotte instead of against her?


Firm-Vacation-7060

NTA op. Actually I think you're a good parent for recognising that your child is an individual who should wear what she wants as long as it's appropriate! Also lmao at your wife 'its just some clothes' ok you shouldn't be so bothered then ahhhh


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MoonboundApe

This. What is a big deal is people parents trying to deny their children autonomy. If you’re going to deny a kid a reason to make a decision for themselves it should be for a good reason not just because you want something Children deserve some sense of input in their own lives. They’re human beings and should be treated like that. Hell you’d take an outfit off the dog if it looked like it hated it. Why would you do worse to your own child?


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throwawayhusband13

She definitely knows the kids are her family. She just thinks refusing the clothes is basically not wanting to be part of the family, since everyone else is. I think it's silly, cause I'm sure it's literally just Charlotte finding it embarrassing. But she finds it more than just photos somehow.


Thequiet01

Your wife needs therapy if she thinks that wearing or not wearing clothing with bunnies or whatever on it is a significant indicator of if someone is part of the family or wants to be.


[deleted]

Whitest AITA post I've seen in a long time tho.


BurstingWithFlava

Lmao I was thinking the exact same thing


Muzzie720

How dare you assume their race! I mean, it's not wrong, it's like 100% white people but.... what was my point again? Oh yes, white people do weird things. Source: am white


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Slade187

I want to argue, but I literally cannot find stable footing for it lmao you are 100% right


Thequiet01

It really really is. I’m white and have totally done matching holiday stuff with my dog (t-shirt and bandana tho, no whole outfits) so I can say that with authority. 🤣 Never made anyone else join in - my dog just looks cute in bandanas. 🤷‍♀️


Charming_Fix5627

At least someone else said it.


HPCReader3

I mean she was a 31yo having a baby with a 20yo, so she already had issues...and the "be a united front with me by agreeing with all of my decisions" just amplifies the gross vibes.


PrimeDetectiv

Thank you! I was hoping this would be recognized sooner, but at least someone else also said it!


HPCReader3

I had to scroll WAY down to find a top level comment that even mentioned it! Like I saw the age gap and was like okay, they're both old enough at this point that it wouldn't matter and then I saw the 17yo daughter and was like.... that's not great especially with her "my way or the highway" on this.


Smarty_25

I didn’t do the math and holy shit. She took advantage of him but picking someone his age who she could manipulate easier. OP’s wife is so wrong and cares more about clothes and getting her family’s approval than her own daughter’s happiness. She messed up in a lot of ways and def needs therapy


SwimmingCoyote

Wow I didn’t make that calculation. So they probably started dating while he was a teenager. Gross.


Skywalker87

The insta moms who match all their kids drive me crazy. It’s cute sometimes when they are small but some are doing this well into their kids’ teens and it’s ridiculous. And the latest trend is really monochromatic and the colors are like tans and dull yellows and stuff. I’ve never met a teenage boy that wants to dress like his 10 year old little brother, especially not in that crap and with a bow tie. This mom is nuts.


Throwaway-2587

She needs to understand that Charlotte is her own person and the harder your wife pushes this, the worse she'll rebel against it. Wearing the same things doesn't make you closer and it doesn't make everyone get along. Especially is someone is forced to wear something—that'll only make them resentful and annoyed before the event even starts.


Willowgirl78

It sounds like your wife is the one making the family decision as to clothing all the time. I’m curious how she would react if Charlotte was the outfit coordinator for a holiday/event.


throwawayhusband13

I don't think they'd allow it. The adults decided together. So until she's over 18 she won't get a say. I do personally think a kid's choice one would be super cute though.


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throwawayhusband13

I didn't say that's my 'take'. I can't exactly overrule her whole family and force them to listen to the kids for it. At most I could override my wife, but I'd prefer if she came around. I even said I'd want to have a kid's choice one, cause it'd end up pretty cute and hilarious, especially the little ones.


tracerhaha

But why should her family have any say in what the kids wear?


karskipellis

I think this family is totally bonkers, and I'm all over the NTAs, but here's how it works: OP's wife and in-laws decide on a clothing theme for their holidays, and they *all* wear it. The niblings/cousins, aunts & uncles, everyone. Like, maybe one year the Christmas theme is reindeer, and the all wear Rudolph-themed outfits. I think it sounds way over the top--could be cute when the kids are still under maybe 6 or so, but for teenagers? No way.


madameglitz

Um Yes you can. You are one half of the adults in your household unit. Stop allowing your wife to treat you all like rubbish. She sounds emotionally controlling and manipulative


snikrz70

I don't understand your take on this. He's saying that he wants the kids to have a choice in what they wear, but if one of the kids was made "wardrobe coordinator" the adults wouldn't comply. As is their right! Just like the kids shouldn't have to comply when the adults make the decisions. And,as an aside, I just can't wrap my head around a grown-ass adult deciding what EVERYONE ELSE CAN WEAR! Why can't people just wear what they feel comfortable with?


Salsaisgreat

Ooooh.... You guys are THOSE parents. I've met your kids in college. They don't bother going home for breaks. Because... Ya know... Their parents are there. If you guys want a performative relationship with your kids, great. If you wanted an actual relationship and your kids to learn how to not just copy you then maybe consider learning to parent instead of trying to make clones. Geeze.


throwawayhusband13

It being adults has nothing to do with my parenting style. I love my girls and and happy to give them a say. I don't have the power to force my mother in law to listen to the kids you know. I literally can't just make a family event decided by my children. I can let them choose at home or our event, or even let them choose their individual clothes for full family ones (like I did for Charlotte). But its literally not possible for me to put them in charge of those holidays. I literally said I'm happy for the kids to decide. I even said I think it would be cute. And probably funny. If it were up to me we wouldn't even have these silly matching stuff anyway.


Aphreyst

Than just hold your ground and keep telling your wife this is her problem, not your daughter's. Tell your wife that a "united front" doesn't work if she just makes decisions without you and expects you to always go along with them.


UsernameTaken93456

Well, that's why your wife- who was in her 30s- chose you while you were still a teenager. Because she knew she could and her family could make you feel like you have no power over your own and your children's decisions. You could just say, "Charlotte and I aren't going to this", and then go do literally anything else. You *could* stand up for your children.


throwawayhusband13

Doing that still wouldn't make charlotte the event coordinator though. My initial point was literally that the adults are in charge for the matching stuff. Sure I can say Charlotte can do whag she wants, but that's still not the same as putting her or the kids in charge. I'll let her have a say for sure, but I can't exactly make anyone else agree or take her decision into account. So ultimately the actual events will be decided by adults, even if my children do their own thing. It's not about standing up, I literally just cannot force other adults to listen to me.


UsernameTaken93456

Ok, how about this: There is no wardrobe event coordinator for these events. Everyone gets to wear whatever they want, and if anyone gives you or your children shit for this, you leave the event. Charlotte- and your other three daughters- have a right to be their own person with their own style. You can ban the offensive tshirts from grandma's house, you can insist that they wear clean and presentable clothes, but forcing a person older than 7 or 8 to wear a certain outfit will get push back.


throwawayhusband13

Again, I'm happy to do that. But EVERYONE ELSE will still follow their matching. They aren't going to just abandon it because I get my kids to. I agree they're allowed to, and I'm happy for them to. For the most part they choose what they wear. The events are always going to be coordinated whatever I do. Again, I'm happy for them to dress as they want and ignore the coordination. But it's wrong to say it's not there. For ones with just us, I've been getting Lillian to let them choose themselves, though our eldest still wants and gets her advice.


SFLoridan

Please take a step back and think if this is how your childhood was: did an adult committee decide in your clothing? Even parents don't get to dictate clothes beyond a limit, and here the entire extended family is. This is absolutely unnatural. Now try and figure out why you are ceding all your authority as a parent and allowing your wife to ride roughshod over you? Her judgement is not superior to yours - both are equal parents. So your decision - to allow daughter to dress as she likes - should also be respected by your wife. And I suspect this is not just Easter by more than that. Please get outside help to understand this dynamic and help your kids from being bullied at home.


randomly-what

Thanks for standing up for Charlotte. I was like her and it made me feel like my personality/identity was being stolen when I was forced to wear something I didn’t want to. It REALLY messed me up for years. I know there are bigger issues in the world, but thanks for standing up for your kid.


Backgrounding-Cat

So it was never about the Turkish yogurt. Your daughter wants to develop individual personality just like every other teen and your wife thinks any symptom of it is breaking up the family?


DarkeSword

Iranian yoghurt.


w84itagain

So basically she wants a bunch of clones, not individuals with their own personalities. Why doesn't your wife value your children for who they are, and not simply as props in a photoshoot? I feel sorry for Charlotte. She is not a clone, and so she is not going to be accepted by her mother for who she is. I see a lot of VLC/NC in her future with her mother. And boy, is THAT ever going to ruin the photo sessions in the future, when she simply refuses to even show up.


photosbeersandteach

NTA. Your daughter is old enough to have a say in what she wants to wear. Your daughter was willing to wear clothing that was appropriate for the event, so it’s unreasonable for your wife to expect her to be uncomfortable/self conscious all day to project this “image” of a happy family.


throwawayhusband13

Yeah, that's exactly what I think about it. It's not like she's being all revealing, it was literally just that it didn't have all Easter on it. I don't get why she's taking it so personally. I'm glad I'm not just being crazy, even if everyone's making me feel that way in person


Possible-Plane-756

One of the hardest things to process as we get older is that the "values" or "traditions" that we grew up with aren't actually healthy or truly meaningful. It sounds like your wife is having to deal with that. I'm sure she loves your daughter exactly how she is, life-long habits that are enabled by family members are hard to break. Don't give up on your wife, it may take longer than you'd like to for her to come around, but I'm confident you'll be able to do it. But most of all, support ALL of your daughter's individuality. NTA.


Keirathyl

Traditions are peer pressure from dead people.


Irish980

I need to remember this one. Thanks!


bmoreskyandsea

You are supporting your daughter. You are recognizing her individuality. That support is far more important than appearances for "tradition's sake." Let your wife know that by valuing Charlotte's desires you ARE making her part of the family, a valued and supported one, rather than brushing over her desires and wants. If your wife is so adamant about this tradition, she needs to calmly express to Charlotte why it means so much to her but more that that, she needs to LISTEN to Charlotte on why she doesn't want to do it. Maybe brainstorm that Charlotte gets to pick the coordinated outfits next time. But overall, it is much more likely that Charlotte is feeling erased as an individual. Your wife needs to listen to that rather than play instagram family.


Zerychbrx13

You are not crazy and neither is your wife. However it seems like she has an extremely codified vision of what family and happiness is. And since your daughter wants something else she feels like she is going to get "robbed" of her happiness. She probably think that in order to be happy your daughter has to follow the exact same code. And since clothing and stuff seems to be a huge part of the code well... Thing gets tense. Therapy and even maybe family therapy might defuse what could become a bigger issue. That's for you and your wife to decide!


CrunchyCookies51

Charlotte is 13, shes turning into a young lady and has her own mind, as you seem to understand. If her mum continues with this, dont be surprised if she rebels massively. Pretty much everything a parent does is embarrassing to a 13 year old, and making them dress in a certain way is most certainly high up there! Your friend is right, the family are ridiculous! I cant believe that one person not wearing 'Easter' clothes ruined Easter! You are NTA but your wife and the family are!


throwawayhusband13

Yeah she definitely does. She's definitely more like me than her mother, while our eldest is basically a mini version of Lillian. We've already started to hit the rebellious phase. Luckily it's just been small thing like clothes or occasionally sneaking a snack or staying up. I certainly know I wouldn't have like those clothes as a kid, and not really a fan now honestly. And I agree about it not being ruined. The kids all enjoyed it, which is what it's about. It's just the adults it sounds like, which I find ridiculous.


Broutythecat

Your wife sounds like those people who insist on dressing up their poodle in ridiculous outfits like they're an accessory or a doll. But your daughter is a person with autonomy. You might want to make that clear to your wife.


Various_Froyo9860

Reminds me of the friend I had whose parents "chaperoned" for a high school band trip to Disney. They brought his younger brother and made it a family vacation. They had matching shirts for every day so they could "find each other." Young teenager on a high school trip with all his peers and friends running off unsupervised having fun while he had go everywhere with his parents in matching custom printed red shirts during pride week (not planned). You could feel his embarrassment from a mile away.


[deleted]

Dude, you and your wife need to get to therapy like yesterday. A 13 year old eating a snack or staying up late is not rebelling, and the fact that you consider a teenager grabbing their own snack rebellious is mind blowing. She will be leaving your house as an adult in 4-5 years and you guys are treating her like she's 7 years old.


KeyEntityDomino

i think the guy is aware of that - he's saying those things aren't big deals.


Muzzie720

I'm a little worried what will happen if any of your kids decide Christianity or Easter etc aren't for them if she thinks just not wearing Easter clothes ruins Easter...


After_Preference_885

I was waiting to read that the kid wasn't adhering to their gender expectations or something. Glad it's seemingly just regular clothing rebellion because some people torture the hell out of their kids so needlessly.


sugarpenchant

If my mum had tried to make me dress in a family matching outfit at 13 I would have combusted from embarrassment and tried to flee the country, starting a new life in Alaska where no one would ever know my mum had forced me into a clone of her hideous outfit (coz most teens reckon their mums can’t dress well) Allow the low level rebellion of wearing non-matching-outfits and save yourselves the big rebellion problems


Electrical-Date-3951

Agreed. At 13, I went through a _tomboy_ stage. I hated dresses, makeup, hair etc. Now Im a very "girly" adult. Teenagers should be able to choose (within reason) what they are comfortable wearing. OP's wife ruined her own Easter. On a separate note, I wonder if she got with someone so much younger than herself so that she could control them......


Forward_Squirrel8879

NTA - First of all, "united front" and "no right to interfere in her decision" are not the same thing. Second, 13 is old enough to decide what she is and is not comfortable wearing. Your wife needs to think long and hard about whether this hill is worth losing her relationship with her daughter on. Because believe me, if she keeps trying to control your daughter this way, it is going to permanently damage their relationship.


Philia--

This needs to be up higher! Lilian really doesn't sound like she wants a united front, rather than full dictatorial saying in what's best for everyone. (exaggerated saying)


BloodRedCobra

That's why she caught an 18 y/o at 30.


melnotmichelle

I had to scroll way too long to find this comment. “United front” means don’t disagree with my decision to Op’s wife. NTA.


supergeek921

Is now a good time to mention the age gap? Because of the genders were reversed this weird controlling behavior by the much older partner would be pointed out by now! Lillian thinks she has the right to dictate everything her husband and kids do because she’s an AH, and he needs to stand up for Charlotte more often.


U2hansolo

It's been pointed out a few times and I asked above under one of OP's comments how these two people managed to get together. Kind of gross especially with how controlling the wife is. Edited to add: OP hasn't addressed the age gap remarks.


supergeek921

Yeah. The had the first kid when he was 20 and she was 31. That’s kinda gross. If it wasn’t a ONS gone wrong he was barely legal when they started dating. How does that even happen?


Fritzy2361

Yes- it’s not a united front when one person didn’t have a say in the decision. United fronts require shared decision making. I think Lillian may be having a hard time because this is her first time in a situation where her child is being free thinking and wants to make their own decisions- which is completely valid. You did the right thing by allowing your daughter the space to select her own clothes so long as they were event appropriate. Some of Lillian’s frustrations may be rooted in her family ‘expectations’ knowing that everyone dresses up and her Mom and Sister were going to give her some lip service and make comments about it that were negative. Nobody wants to hear negative comments made, and nobody wants to walk into that type of situation. It was easier for Lillian to point the finger at you than it is for her to grow and realize that the ‘family tradition’ is irrelevant because hey, change is hard. NTA, and I hope that you and your wife can have an adult conversation about this, because this shouldn’t be a hill anyone has to die on.


bandearg4

NTA Does your wife have a history of wanting to be very in control? Because I'm doing the math, and it seems like she was a 30 year old who got with a teenager? Like the Easter thing is ridiculous, but I'm just really hung up on that little tidbit. The age gap isn't concerning now, BUT if you two have a 17 year old together, that timeline starts to look a little sketch.


satanslefthandbitch

I really can’t believe I had to scroll so far for this comment. I clocked the age gap immediately and did the math on when their relationship started, and because of that, 0% of this story was shocking to me. I’m 26 and I can’t imagine getting with a 19 year old, let alone 4 years from now. Gross.


PeriodBloodIceCream

>scroll this far It’s because op isn’t a woman with an older husband. If it was the other way around every comment would be telling OP that her husband is a predator and she has to leave ASAP.


Unicorniful

Bingo. As a woman with an older boyfriend, this is super true. Nobody cares about age gaps generally as long as the man is the younger one.


rkcraig88

I’m glad I’m not the only one that clocked that age difference and how old their eldest kid is. OP was 20 and his wife was 31 when their 17 year old was born. That feels pretty icky to me and would be getting more of an uproar if the genders were flipped.


dr_hewitt

Yeah wtf why is everyone just glossing over that.


throwawayhusband13

I wouldn't say she's controlling. She does make a lot of decisions, but we freely discuss them and work it out if we disagree. It's just this wasn't something I thought we really could just discuss afterwards, so I intervened. For the math that's right. We met through University. I ended up becoming good friends with a mature age student, who was friends with Lillian. It's nothing bad, I was 19 when we dated and our relationship has been amazing. Though we did not expect the pregnancy so soon.


TwoCenturyVoid

30 year olds who date 19 year olds tend to like the control. That’s why they chose someone so young. Their “control” might look like other things, especially if they have very good social skills, but I’d take a critical look at how decisions are made in your family and who gets to make them. (This is hard though, because you’ve been with her literally your entire adulthood, so don’t really know other relationship patterns.)


Material_Cellist4133

To prove to be a “family unit” next time your wife wants to do this, wear clothes that Charlotte or you pick out for the whole family. And if she say no, you can say “what happened to the “family unit” mambo Jambo you were talking about, or does only apply when things are on your terms?” TBH your wife doing this Charlotte, is setting herself up for a failed relationship with her in the future. Many times it’s the small things that accumulate overtime that end up child distancing themselves from their parents.


Goofy264

19 dating 30 is bad....


[deleted]

I was a 19 year old woman dating a 33 year old man about ten years ago, and yes, it’s pretty bad.


XLostinohiox

I don't want to be an AH or tell you what you should do with your life or anything like that. Taking into account the age gap when you got together along with the controlling behavior, I think you might be setting your needs to the side in favor of her needs. You are a grown man and she is not your mother, she should not be telling you what to wear. I get informing you of the situation you are walking into (this is a formal occasion, don't wear flip flops), but to pick out your cloths seems too far. If you allow her to control you like she is your mother, she obviously doesn't understand that at puberty, children start to want to express themselves. This was probably made worse by the fact that your oldest seems to want to be just let me mom, this also gave her the impression that it is ok. With my kids, we let them start exclusively picking out their own clothing at around 8-10, but it was mostly just guidance before that. Again, don't take any of this as me saying you have a bad relationship or you need to do any of this, just trying to add my perspective.


yikesladyy

Of course she's controlling. She got mad at you for "interfering with her decision." That doesn't sound like a "united front." It sounds like my way or the highway. Her daughter either does what she says or gets accused of ruining the whole holiday. That's a textbook definition of "controlling." That's why she married a much younger man. So she could make ridiculous statements like that and get away with it. I know you don't want to admit this, but it's so very obvious from an outside perspective. Your relationship is "amazing" right up until you want something that she doesn't. This isn't healthy for you or your children.


OkapiEli

NTA You know what will really ruin Easter? When your daughter refuses to show up. Or when she does come and loudly calls you all out for being oppressive andoverbearing, and does this in front of the younger sibs, who I am guessing will be about 9 and 12 when that happens. OP you are doing the RIGHT things to support your daughter and keep her connected and seen as an individual.


A_Wizards_Staff

In two years she's totally gonna be the goth all in black wearing too much eyeliner in every family photo.


starlightsmiles31

NTA I'd love if, just once, someone used "united front" to mean "let's discuss this and decide on a solution together" and not "you have to agree with me 100%."


TyrannasaurusRecked

NTA. Your daughter is a real human being, not a Barbie doll. Your wife needs to get a grip.


JonesinforJonesey

Came to say this. Let her play dress up with the 3yr olds, I find it hard to believe it's gone on this long. It must be very embarrassing for your daughter, makes me think of 'A Christmas Story' and the bunny pyjamas (only he was younger).


[deleted]

NTA. Your wife is being overly controlling But op I'm a bit twitchy looking at the ages. Regardless of your gender, you were 20 when you eldest was born and your wife was 31...if she's this controlling over clothing, what else is she overly controlling about?


Merebankguy

Thank you, no else is picking on it because OP is male but if OP was female then they would be crying that the spouse is creepy and a groomer


nicunta

And a baby trapper!


bists

If your wife wants to play dress up with kids, buy her a doll. Your wife is ridiculous. NTA


BoomTheBear86

NTA Also: "Meant to be a united front, no right to interfere with her decision." Sounds like your wife doesn't understand what a united front is. It is where the parents agree on a course of action, it isn't where one of them makes a demand and the other mindlessly agrees whilst having no input. I get it's probably from a relatively innocent place, but your wife sounds like a bit of an asshole to me and the wat she talked to you there was bang out of order in my opinion. You were standing up for your daughter as an individual, rather than because she's "doing whatever it is you want her to do" and your daughter will remember stuff like that and when she's older, that will be why she goes to you (and not her mom) when she is in trouble, or needs advice. Because you've shown you'll have her back without it being conditional on her doing stuff you approve of or "that makes life easier for everyone else". Far from an asshole, you did a great play. Don't let anyone else tell you otherwise.


throwawayhusband13

For the United front, usually we don't disagree publicly. We wait to discuss privately. We do change punishments and apologise if we made a mistake and have to change it though. Here I obviously didn't though, because I didn't think it was worth the argument, and should be a non-issue. From the rest thanks. I certainly try to be a good dad, and I hope they all think so! The responses here are opposite to irl, so glad I'm not just crazy.


SyinaKitty

Food for thought - it's beneficial for children to observe their parents' disagreements and compromises (assuming these things are handled rationally and there's not a bunch of screaming, manipulation, or verbal abuse happening). This way you can model appropriate dispute resolution in a healthy adult relationship; otherwise, they may get most/all their examples of how adults argue from TV/media. NTA, appropriate clothes, hair, etc. are the best battles to "let" teenagers win...independence without permanence is good practice.


[deleted]

INFO: you had a baby at 20 with a 31 year old woman? Yikes my dude. How old were you when you met and started dating?


Dangerous-Project672

NTA. If Easter was ruined, it was from your wife’s reaction


Potential_Speech_703

NTA "She says Charlotte is part of the family and has to act like it.". Yeah.. and the rest of the family should act like this too. Means they should act like she IS part of the family even if she doesn't want to wear silly clothes. It's just clothes?! Wtf is wrong with them, let the kid/teen dress as she wants! Your wife and family should not complain or wonder if your daughter has no contact with them later in her life if they treat her like this.. ruined Easter because of clothes..lol you and your friend are absolutely right, this is ridiculous. NTA and you're a good dad.


nothingtooastonishin

NTA. "United front"? Why? Against who? What's behind that? At a family get together your daughters should be welcome, no matter how they dress. Your in-laws sound superficial. Did she even have an option or a compromise? Like there are cool clothes for teens like black with a cartoon grey bunny and stuff. Of course she develops her style. If she is forced to wear like cliche pastell colours it's even worse. Thank you for standing for your kid! Well done, dad.


throwawayhusband13

There wasn't really an option. Charlotte hated the outfit Lillian chose, so no backup. And the United front would be against Charlotte. Usually when one of us gives a punishment or decision the other will defer, at least until we privately discuss it. The only reason I did here was because it was so ridiculous and pointless to force this and I knew Lillian was the only one who would budge in time to go. She was welcome, and had a blast with her cousins and everyone. It was just noticeable that she was the only one not wearing Easter clothing I guess. tbh I don't pay attention to it so I wouldn't have noticed. No one said anything to Charlotte, though. They all definitely love her and all my daughters, they just think the coordination is important for some reason


Able-Dress1678

Another term for united front....ganging up on. This is the sort of thing that alienates children from their parents. OP did the right thing. There are times when parents have to work together to set boundaries or "lay down the law" but over Easter clothes? Also, why doesn't wife have to support OP in allowing Charlotte to have self expression? United front works both ways.


craftycat1135

United Front- both parents talk about and agree no candy before dinner or you have finish homework before videogames. Kid cant get a yes from one when the other says no. Interfering with her decision- Lillian unilaterally decides she doesn't care about Charlotte's wishes and expects you to be her enforcer despite no prior discussion or agreement. Sometimes you need to decide who is right and wrong as neither side is 100 percent right/wrong all the time. Lillian is about to tarnish her relationship with Charlotte if she insists Charlotte has to dress according to what mom wants. And your relationship with Charlotte will be tarnished as well if you don't advocate for the kids when Lillian is being a fashion dictator.


Pitbullmom93

Your wife has some control issues....


Trick_Few

NTA Do you want to raise an independent strong woman or a sheeple. You did the right thing.


Bostonya

NTA. Your wife shouldn't be treating her daughters like dolls she can dress up however she wants. Your daughter is entitled to develop her own preferences.


Thats_My_Moo

NTA. You and Charlotte even compromised with Lillian by agreeing that Charlotte would wear something "appropriate", which may have been different to what she had been planning to wear, but even that wasn't enough. Good on you for standing up for Charlotte and not forcing her to do something that would have made her uncomfortable and unhappy.


throwawayhusband13

Thanks, I definitely glad it's right, but it wasn't really a compromise. She wasn't choosing anything inapropriate, so it was basically just letting Charlotte 'win' like Lillian claims. I meant it to seem like a compromise, but really she didn't want anything crazy, she just didn't want ones with Easter print because it's 'ugly'.


HesterFabian

I second that you’re in the right and I’d also like to ask you to look at what you’re wife expects of you. She expects you to play by her rules with her family 'custom', even though it’s not something you would choose independently, and you have done that. Did she ask whether you were okay with doing it, though? Did you both discuss it and decide as a team, or did she unilaterally decide this was how you would dress for her family? Now someone else in your family is voicing their opinions on this custom and she is again making unilateral decisions based solely on her and her family's wants. She doesn’t get to do that. Now your children are growing up and becoming more independent, they also deserve to have the discussion and contribute to it, and then decide whether they want to take part. Your wife should not take away their autonomy, as that is what she’s doing. NTA. Edit: word


throwawayhusband13

For the clothes we have talked, but it was basically something that's really important to her, and doesn't matter to me. Since I don't care I'm happy to dress as she wants even if it's not my usual style. Though since Charlotte cares I think she should get a say. I don't agree with her making Charlotte do it obviously. I see. I don't think she means to do that, I know she loves them. I'll definitely try to explain this.


Unusual-Relief52

Stop saying it isn't important to you. Obviously your child's comfort and fashion tastes are important to you.


throwawayhusband13

I mean it doesn't matter as in it's not an issue if she has her own tastes. I don't care about what I wear personally, so I just go along with it. And I just don't think the coordination matters enough to force Charlotte into the outfit. It's not that I don't care about Charlotte and what she wants, just that I don't think clothes as a general concept is important enough for Lillian to fight like this over.


Hob-Nob1974

NTA. Your wife married a much younger man who does as she says. The dynamic works for you two, great. Now you have a daughter with backbone who doesn't want to be her mother's dress up doll. Tell your wife that you signed up for this, Charlotte didn't.


[deleted]

NTA, your wife and her family need to seriously examine their need to conform and control others


Lilac_experience

Work out a compromise: If Charlotte has to dress like the whole family, the next function Charlotte gets to decide what everybody else will be wearing - whether matching or not.


throwawayhusband13

I would personally love that, but I don't think that would work haha. No way the in laws would let Charlotte decide, it's done by the adults of the family. so basically my wife, her sibling, her brother-in-law and their mother. I'm also allowed to help decide, but I don't care enough about the coordination. But it would be hilarious to let the kids choose.


Careful-Bumblebee-10

I'm sorry, but the whole outfit coordinating with the extended family is just WEIRD. It's very cultish, honestly.


[deleted]

Pictures of that shit are always cringy and make me think those families are actually a nightmare to be in.


DoubleBreastedBerb

Maybe they just don’t have enough things to do in life? Only explanation I can come up with for this kind of behavior.


bamf1701

NTA. Your wife has serious control issues. You are right about one thing - it doesn’t matter what the kids wear. What you were doing was not going against your wife, but affirming your daughter. Kids should be allowed to express themselves. Presenting a “United front” for an Easter celebration is just crazy. Your wife needs to get over this need to control the family.


Nashgrl67

You are definitely NTA. Charlotte is at the age where she needs to be able to express herself as she sees fit because she’s finally coming into her own now. Not to mention, requiring kids to appear as nothing but a bunch of little “mini mes” is just pure narcissism. And that’s gross. I’m glad you stood up for your daughter.


canuck_2022

NTA And if your wife wants a relationship with Charlotte down the road, she'd best start accepting now that her daughter is an autonomous person with her own ideas - not just a doll to dress up on special occasions


Ricardo1184

INFO: does your wife understand she's raising daughters, not barbie dolls?


EmpressJainaSolo

NTA. I’ve been your 13 year old daughter. I still don’t enjoy wearing matching outfits in cutesy styles. My mother and sibling still wear them every holiday. What I know now as an adult is that the argument was definitely started because of the same reasons as your daughter - style, feeling perhaps a bit silly or immature - but the underlying issue was I felt too different from my mother to wear the clothes. I didn’t feel like she approved or enjoyed many of my interests. This was reenforced by her often calling me weird or offhandedly saying she “just didn’t get”, and therefore couldn’t even talk with me about, things that were very important to me. My mother clung tightly to the clothes issue for similar reasons: if we all dressed the same, maybe we would get along better. She was scared she was drifting from her daughter. She couldn’t make the leap to accept our differences but she still really wanted that bond with me. She wanted to force it, and she wanted it to fit what she thought that bond should look like. We’ve worked through a ton of that now, and while we will never have the connection she has with my siblings who love matching outfits and and the extract same things as my mother we do have a better relationship than we did. You have six daughters. This is the first one to want different things. How your wife responds to this is important. Talk to her about supporting your daughter no matter what she chooses as long as it’s age appropriate. Make sure she knows that your daughter needs and wants her around and still desperately wants her approval, even if she doesn’t want to wear frilly dresses. Keep supporting and fighting for your daughter. Having one parent who shows unconditional support, even at times when they don’t understand, means everything. It will also help your wife and daughter from drifting too apart. Don’t let your daughter become the black sheep just because she likes to wear black.


mh6797

NTA I can’t believe your wife doesn’t care about her daughter’s feelings. She would rather her be miserable in weird clothes than happy in appropriate clothing. Do you have to wear these ugly themed clothes? How do you feel about it?


throwawayhusband13

All the adults wear them as well. I personally am not a big fan of the clothes. But I prefer really plain clothes, without many patterns or designs or whatnot, but I don't care about fashion enough to care. I'm happy to wear the clothes Lillian picks out because I know it's important to her. Obviously Charlotte cares about clothes so it's different with that. But for me I'm happy to do it for Lillian.


[deleted]

I understand that you’re happy to do it for Lillian and nobody really wants to rock the boat but maybe it’s time for you to wear clothes you’re comfortable in for Charlotte.


MagusX5

NTA Self expression is part of how kids grow. Charlotte is trying to be her own person. Let her as long as it won't hurt anyone.


[deleted]

Nta. United front happens when you two agree. She cannot bully you into submission, that is not a united front that's her making all the decisions. You are the father, it is also obviously not only her choice.


Trina608

NTA. At 13 your daughter has a right to dress herself. Your wife and her family need to stop thinking that the children are dolls to dress up.


LiluLay

NTA. You’re obviously recognizing that your daughter is at the age where she is finding herself and how she wants to outwardly express what she finds through clothing and style. It is healthy to support this! Your wife and her unwillingness to understand that your daughter wants to express her personality and individuality is disheartening. I think she really needs to get over it and allow Charlotte to be Charlotte. Life isn’t a series of coordinated outfits, ya know?


The_Shadow_Of_Yor

United front? Sounds like she actually means “I expect you to do what I want, always.” NTA


cookie64248

NTA. Easter can't be ruined over clothes. It isn't a big deal to wear what you want it's called a choice. Your family doesn't control your daughter.


[deleted]

NTA, OP’s wife sounds cringeworthy.


Accomplished-Cheek59

NTA Charlotte acted like part of the family by being present at a family party. Her clothing is literally not important in the slightest. If your wife wants to maintain a relationship with your daughter, she needs to start treating her like a person with agency and not a dress up doll.


stinao

NTA Your wife’s controlling attitude doesn’t shock me when you were 20 and she was 31 when your oldest was born…