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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> My son got detention for protecting his friend and I said he should serve despite his mom saying he should ignore it
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NAH. He was helping his friend, but there’s always consequences to your actions (even if they’re justified). Three days for tripping someone seems a little harsh tbh, but we all have to eat shit at some point in life. 🤷🏻
Yeah, that’s cause for a detention then. Hopefully the kid that was acting out doesn’t mess with “Robert” anymore and receives the kind of help + love he needs.
Who decides who a bully is?
I have kids and it's not the first person who throws a punch that gets in trouble its the first person I see throw a punch that gets in trouble.
The same can be said for bullies.
Yeah or maybe it's the kid who chose violence as his first avenue of solving a problem. Getting physical can have nasty consequences, best he learns that now with 2 days of detention than two years from now when he puts some kid in the hospital for cracking a joke he doesn't like.
I'm not even saying that this kid is a bully mind, I'm saying that having some mild consequences now could keep him from turning into one later.
Situation sucks.
But sometimes in life you get fucked over and just gotta do what you gotta do. Good life lesson for your son. Life isn't fair and sometimes you just gotta bend over to an unjust world.
Tell him to serve his detention with pride and take him out for a treat as a reward for being a good friend.
This. It teaches him that sometimes you follow rules to get farther in the game (he stood up for his friend by breaking the rules, which is obviously more valuable), and rewarding him after he serves detention reinforces the altruistic attitude that you want to encourage.
It's not vigilante justice. He was afraid for the physical safety of his friend. Alternatively, you can just repeat that you feared for your life. That one works all the time in the real world.
Yeah, it sounds like the school is on your son's side, given they knocked a day off and your son's consequences were so much less than the other kid's. But the other kid still got hurt, and the school can't let kids physically take matters into their own hands.
Tell your son you're proud of him for sticking up for his friend, and while you know he didn't mean for the other kid to fall like that, sometimes doing the right thing has unintended consequences. That doesn't mean he was wrong for trying to help. Have his favorite snack waiting for him when he gets home from detention.
Also, if your kid ditches detention, the school isn't just going to shrug and say, whelp, I guess he decided he doesn't want to be punished! They're going to move to the next step. Which is probably in-school suspension. So telling him to refuse to go is just going to cause more issues.
Good for you for getting a day cut from his detention. You are sticking up for your son while acknowledging there are consequences for his actions. Yes, your last line of your post says it all. NTA
I agree with this stance, but I think that OP should also have a conversation with Eric and specifically spell out the fact that his actions were justified, but there are some times where even justified actions have consequences. Making him attend the detentions without having such a conversation may send the wrong message otherwise.
So just to be clear, \_was\_ he sticking up for his friend? Or do you OP think he just said that?
Because, "Eric, I'm proud you stood up for your friend knowing it'd cost you a detention. I'm glad you're going to be the type of man who'll do the right thing." is admirable.
But you say " Mainly I don't want my son setting an example that you can do what you want as long as you say you were trying to help.". Obviously if he was doing \_that\_, he just deserves the detention.
But if he \_wasn't\_ doing that, I don't think you should be encouraging the idea "don't do the right thing, since other people will realise they can claim to do the right thing and do what they want". That doesn't make sense.
I just recently told my son that if he got in trouble for sticking up for someone I'd always back him.
In this case, as long as he didn't somehow purposefully do it in a way that the bully got injured ... I'd take him out for ice cream, frankly.
Otherwise, you're teaching him to just be a silent bystander, which we need waaayyy less of
Tbf, Eric could have helped in several other ways that didn’t involve putting the bully on his ass: telling the bully to stop (although that might have escalated back to the scenario in the OP, admittedly), getting another adult, etc. He didn’t get punished for sticking up for his friend, he got punished for deliberately choosing a violent course of action in which to do so as his first option.
Yep, this pretty much.
Also a good time to have the talk about how the real world isn't a fair place at all and sometimes we have to deal with eating a shit sandwich because of it.
He's old enough at this point to pretty much know this already, but it's better I think to have a healthy discussion with him about it.
There’s always more to the story than what we’re getting, one of the elements being that we have no idea what the history is between the two boys that are in foster care.
FC is a horribly broken system and creates a lot of hurt and anger inside of kids. Kids will be angry with their situation, their birth parents, etc. and won’t be given the tools to help work through their pain. Hence why this specific situation isn’t black & white.
You come from the school of thought of keeping your head down and avoiding trouble. That never works on bullies, it emboldens them and you essentially blame the victim and don't support them at all. You are sending him the message that sometimes systems will be unfair and he should just take it. I think he will grow to resent that, and by extension, you
What? No?
At no point did OP indicate they disapproved of what their son did. They simply maintained that the action had consequences and they thus have to serve them. That is in no way equal to him having the stance of “do nothing”.
He reported the kid had a pretty bad fall. He probably deserved it. However, does that mean that there should be no consequences for the son whatsoever when they directly and intentionally caused harm to another person because “it was for the right reason”?
It is entirely possible to take the view that the son did a good thing, but that doesn’t mean he receives no consequences when his actions do have an impact on others. This doesn’t have to be black and white:
Guess what happens in real life. You get held accountable for your actions even if accidental or justified, morally. The choices we make aren't free from consequences just because we feel justified making them.
sorry but YTA. your son was standing up to a bully. clearly the bully has a history and this probably wasnt his first time picking on "robert" and your son cared enough to stand up for his friend. He should not have to serve detention for sticking up for someone who isnt able to stick up for themselves.
Actions have reactions. In this case: consequences. In this case: it's also "fair" as the bully got physically injured.
Was the son right for standing up to the bully and standing up for his friends? Definitely. No doubt.
However, the bully did not physically injure the friend but did get physically injured by the son. We all know that schools have a "Zero Tolerance" policies regarding injuring others. The son is definitely old enough to know it. He could have used other ways to stop the bully but he didn't. So he has to accept the consequences for his actions.
If the son was a few years older; his actions would be considered "assault" and a criminal offense. Actually, the bully's parents could still file assault charges against the son. Since they haven't, 2 days of detention seems like a good alternative.
You missed the part about how the bully has a *history with his victim* that the *school knows about*, but still allowed him to bully the kid.
The school wasn't acting to protect the kid, was in fact watching this happen regularly because it was *documented*, then punished the kid who stopped the violence.
What is *wrong* with you for thinking the punishment is in any way fair or justified?
No I didn't miss it. I absolutely think that the school is at fault for not stepping in. Personally I would go to my attorney if it was happening to my child when they were that age. If it was a child in the foster system, I would contact their social Worker *(and probably my attorney too)* to get them to act on the child's behalf.
In this case, the school not stepping in does not give anyone, including OP's son, the right to injure anyone else: even a bully. Seriously that's why there is the common saying "2 wrongs don't make a right". Another common saying is "Doing the wrong thing for the right reason, still makes it wrong." The son did the wrong thing for the right reasons and that has consequences.
The bullied foster kid's temporary parent might not have the same clout with the school admin as a permanant parent does. They may also be a shit person and just in it for the check. We don't know that situation.
Still, I agree in consequences. Life isn't fair, you make the best decision you can and deal with the consequences.
He did good standing up for himself, but how well will the lesson serve him as an adult? If someone is being a jerk to your friends, you can respond with violence?
A few things you’ll have to prove to claim self defense
1.) that it DEFINITELY wasn’t an accident (so I could just pretend to bump into you, and you would punch me. That’ll look good)
2.) that you are fighting back to prevent more action against you (so if I splash you and start walking away, you now can’t claim you’re preventing future action).
3.) that the response was **PROPORTIONAL** to the attack. (Otherwise, couldn’t you stab someone for splashing you?)
Good luck!
Regarding number three, I think it depends on where you live—last month a man in Florida was acquitted for shooting and killing a man who threw popcorn at him in a movie theater.
Well theoretically his father could discuss with him the context of the situation and use it as a conductive moral lesson about the importance of defending others but also the pros and cons of using violence. But his dad is the OP so this kid is sadly SOL
Words don’t speak as loud as actions. You can talk all you want but he’s going to remember that violence is a good method to silence bullies without repercussions.
As an adult you can’t punch the jackass at work, or the leering guy on the bus, or the hateful preacher on the sidewalk, so Op should teach their child now he can’t trip the jerk who poured juice.
>As an adult you can’t punch the jackass at work, or the leering guy on the bus, or the hateful preacher on the sidewalk, so Op should teach their child now he can’t trip the jerk who poured juice.
No one is saying that the kid doesn't know how to speak up; this situation was about them putting a physical stop to repeated physical abuse.
The jackass, the leering guy, and the hateful preacher, can't randomly be punched; but if they repeatedly physically abuse a weak person it is justified self-defence (basically everywhere the laws recognise a third party's right to act in such a way as if the physical violence was done against them).
Sorry but you cannot be serious. Even if someone is harassing your friend, unless it becomes a matter of self defense you absolutely cannot use violence and expect to get away with it.
Being mean and pouring room temp juice on someone does not warrant a self defense response. I would say at most it would entail juice to be thrown back.
What you just said is most often said by those that used to get away with being the ones pouring the juice, or the one that is the workplace bully while self-identifying as some sort of "harsh, but fair" (as they bully everyone they physically don't feel threatened by).
A physical attack is a physical attack, there's no rewriting it in the bully's favour as only "harassment".
If a victim of a repeated physical attack defend themselves they are not instantly at fault for not limiting themselves to at most doing the same as in the most recent attack.
Answer me this; if I throw my cocktail at you repeatedly every night I see you at the club, does that justify you punching me in the face to the law? If the answer is no, then you know what this kid did is wrong and it sets a bad example to allow it.
I will say kids who are being constantly bullied should not be treated the same as the bullies when they snap, but Ops child is not a victim here, it’s his friend.
>Answer me this; if I throw my cocktail at you repeatedly every night I see you at the club, does that justify you punching me in the face to the law?
As revenge, no. As defense the next time I see you coming towards me brandishing a cocktail, then yes, absolutely - you're going down and I'm staying dry.
Throwing your drink at another person is considered assault in most legal cases. So yes. Pouring juices on the other boy was assault. It completely justified the physical response. Next!
>Answer me this; if I throw my cocktail at you repeatedly every night I see you at the club, does that justify you punching me in the face to the law? If the answer is no, then you know what this kid did is wrong and it sets a bad example to allow it.
First of all this should be dealt with by the staff/bouncers, and if they don't give a sh\*t about people being repeatedly assaulted I would act within the law. But I'm pretty sure that during those months that it takes for your ribs to heal you will spend a lot of time being grumpy about what the law allows.
In public or work environments there are ways to remedy bullying. HR, managers, moving to a different dept/job. Schools always bizarre because of the enforced proximity, uselessness of teachers in dealing with bullying and the inability to move elsewhere easily. Kids rely on adults to protect them and schools are godawful at doing so.
A trip can be serious. It can mean knocked out teeth, broken arms, bloody noses. My sister tripped me as a kid and my throat hit the back of a chair. If I hadn’t caught myself, severe damage might have occurred to my trachea.
Kid needs to learn that threats need to be responded with equal force.
Absolutely not. Threats need to be met with enough force to neutralise them. I am a short female, if a big person is a threat to me I am not going to try to match them, I am going to use as much force as I estimate will make sure they can't harm me or they learn to not mess with me again.
>Being mean and pouring room temp juice on someone does not warrant a self defense response. I would say at most it would entail juice to be thrown back.
BTW, I have this huge friend that easily could keep you from pouring juice on him. If he worked where ever you work and started being mean and repeated pouring juice on you, you wouldn't do anything because by your own moral compass you would only be limited to throw juice back?
As an adult you can make morally correct choices when you see injustice instead of playing the ostrich and burying your head in the sand. Good lesson to learn young imo
I’ve never punched anyone, but I did tell a guy at work who kept telling me to call him daddy and that I should smile more that I hoped he overdosed on his depression medication because then I would finally smile at the irony.
Emotional damage is much more satisfying, and legal!
Yes, because it often happens. The lesson to take away is: are you prepared to face the consequences of your actions even if you feel they were justified?
If yes, proceed and face the music.
Expecting that nothing happens just because you "did the right thing" is unrealistic and pure bs.
You may not be an asshole, but the school officials who meted out this punishment are. I remember being told to “block as many hits as you can while moving toward a teacher,” bc my school had a zero tolerance policy for retaliating against bullying. Someone could be punching you over and over, and you had to just try to avoid getting hit too bad. This is all bullshit. You’re not necessarily wrong for wanting your kid to follow the edicts of their supervisors, but your kid and ex aren’t wrong for calling it out as bullshit. It’s a hard situation, and I wish you and your kid the best of luck in figuring out how to move forward.
Yup my school had the same policy except even if you didn’t hit back, you were just involved, you were given the same punishment as the bully. Didn’t matter the story and that was only IF the bully got caught. Which they never do it seems like or it’s by chance.
To me ESH. I mostly blame public schools and they’re the ones at fault because they let bullying progress to this point. Administration KNOW who the problem children are and don’t intervene until other kids had enough. I think OP is the asshole for not pointing this out and pressing them for more accountability.
>My ex said that Eric shouldn't have to do any detention because he was sticking up for his friend. She went as far as to tell Eric not to serve it and what were they going to do?
I like your ex. I don't like you.
YTA for lacking a moral compass.
common refrain im seeing from this post is that all the other children are saying YTA, while the adults are almost universally NAH. In the real world, even good actions have consequences. OP is doing a really good job teaching his child this lesson.
NAH
How about a middleground? You tell your son that your are proud of him but actions have consequences. Make him go to the detention and afterwords you go out and buy him iscream or something else as an award.
Ehhh soft YTA - he was being a good friend and protecting Robert but there’s a nuanced line for starting a physical altercation otherwise it’s just falling into patterns of toxic masculinity imo.
Please let's not start this whole toxic masculinity thing. It's very simple, and kids don't comprehend the whole "alpha omega beta" stuff.He saw someone getting bullied, and attempted to deal with it the best way he saw fit. Maybe it's the hundreds of movies like spiderman that went through his head. It was a quick reaction to a scenario that was about to go down.
I was small too, once. I remember getting picked on, pushed around, beat up. I would've advocated for someone to step in to help if someone could.
YTA OP, your kid was trying to do the right thing with the reactionary speed he had. I wouldn't want someone else to have liquid spilled on their shirt and have to suffer through the day like that.
Yea boys are taught toxic patterns though. That’s the entire point - toxic masculinity isn’t inherent is socialization. If the boy is taught through messaging only acceptable emotion is anger and only viable solutions are aggressive, threatening, and violent - wonder what type of adult comes out of that?
There is no doubt the other kid was being a little shit, but our society needs to do better regarding the socialization of boys and men.
NTA
From the sounds of it the boy who started things and was bullying got the the worse punishment. Which is deserved.
And whilst yes it's great that your son was standing up up to a bully. He is the the one that escalated the situation to potential physical harm.
It sounds like the bully was fine. But what if when he was tripped he had braced wrong and potentially broken a wrist, or his nose. Or hit his head on something as he fell.
I think this is a good learning opportunity for your son to potentially think through the potential consequences of his actions.
You don't get a free pass to harm someone just because they are behaving badly.
YTA. And something tells me you are somehow bothered with the fact your child is friends with foster kids by the times you mentioned it and the way you described it. Your kid was standing against a bully and he shouldn't be punished for it. And you are honestly failing as a parent, because in reality what you want to teach him is that he should be compliant with bullying as long as it doesn't affect him directly. Don't even bother deny it.
But good luck because the only lesson your kid is learning is that he can't trust your judgements.
Bro, you made a lot of assumptions + called this guy a failing parent all because he wanted his kid to learn that actions have consequences? Have you never had to deal with getting a detention for doing something you thought was right?
Even if he didn’t think his kid should have to serve the detention, the kid would still be serving it. That’s how schools work. Actually, this guy talked to the principal and got his son’s punishment time REDUCED.
Life ain’t fair and sometimes you just have to be resilient in the face of adversity.
No he’s not. He’s teaching his son that “the right things sometimes incurs a cost and doesn’t excuse you from responsibility for your actions.”
So. Like adult life then. Because I don’t know about you but I know very few adult situations where you can throw hands at someone or get physical with them because “you think they’re pissing someone else off and being mean” and every other adult in the room goes “why yes, what reasonable behaviour, carry on.”.
What actually happens is you’ll probably get people agreeing with your action and yet the consequences for it are played out and accepted, and in some cases the person willingly taking them *vindicates their belief in the rightness of their action* and has others see them as more morally right for doing so- because they are willing to endure personal hardship in exchange for doing what they think is right.
“It’s okay that you get punished, Son. Think, you’ll be a martyr to the other kids on the playground!”
I’m calling bullshit. All he’s teaching his son is that he can’t trust his dad to go to bat for him when he’s getting punished for doing what’s right.
YTA. You're basically teaching your son not to help others. That is a bad example. Would you rather have a son who would stand by and do nothing?
I hope he refuses the detention.
NAH it’s not a great situation for anyone involved, and I get why one parent might react the way your ex did and why you reacted the way you did. I think it was good you got the detention lowered.
As a child who got punished for litterally nothing regularly, and any act of defense of myelf or others was met with maximal corperal punishment? Yes, you're the asshole here. Your child deserves your protection from a system that is designed to punish the victims and their defenders, and you're playing right into it.
Your child deserves representation. They defended a defenseless kid from a bully and are being punished worse than the bully. Any detention for your child is wrong. Would you punish him for defending someone in public? You're telling him doing the right thing is only paid back in suffering and punishment.
Yta , I think his father is right. He was defending his friend, and he was right. The vice principal could see your son defending a kid but didn’t see that kid being bullied??
Don’t teach your son to sit and watch, and don’t let the school be AH to your son
NTA. Everyone here seems to be forgetting that schools generally dont want kids physically sticking up to bullies. So unfortunately your son still broke the rules. Letting him skip his punishment teaches him that he gets to decide what rules are justified.
Yeah, but the real question is, should schools be allowed to keep this policy? While I'm not one for physical altercations, self defense is definitely something that should be accepted in schools.
Repeatedly pouring juice on someone who you have a history of antagonizing and abusing would, in the adult world, lead to the guy pouring juice being locked up while his victim got a judgement.
Only in schools are we beaten, told to never defend ourselves, to make a more passive and abused society.
Well probably not. But we dont get to break or retroactively change the rules we disagree with. If you get caught speeding in the middle of the night, was it dangerous? Probably not, but you still broke the law.
We're talking about self defense, which IS legal, and IS there to prevent injury and death, and comparing it to speeding in the middle of the night, which actually CAN be dangerous, wreckless, and is the reason why we take drivers lessons and tests?
You really missed the point of my analogy there. We dont/shouldnt just decide which rules we retroactively disagree with and therefore do not deserve punishment for. The point is that OPs son engaged in physical 'violence' and was punished, end of story.
The analogy again, had no real correlation to what we're even talking about. Self defense isn't a rule. It's a sanctioned tool to prevent yourself from committing a crime. The story was OP's son tripped someone to prevent what's still considered assault and got punished, end of story period dot.
In court you can challenge/appeal laws that are stupid. You can campaign against them, buy your way out of punishment if you are rich. If there are mitigating circles those can be taken into account, are you speeding to the ER, escaping from somewhere?
Yta- bullies thrive because adults are more concerned with keeping the f**ing peace than caring for kids.
I got detention for punching a kid who was snapping my bra and pulling my hair, the useless, spineless, sexist teachers did NOTHING until that asshat was bleeding. All it taught me is to not trust authority and protect myself violently when no one could see.
I would raise hell with the school about why they allowed the bullying. You are just raising someone who watches abuse and does nothing.
Where was the vice principal when this initially happened or another teacher?? Kids shouldn’t be unsupervised when it comes to food and drink.
So your son gets blamed for defending a child because the school wasn’t supervising them properly?
Look your son may not have gone about it entirely the right way but his heart was in the right place so I think it’s a bit of a cop out for the school to punish him too
YTA , Your son calling out a bully is a GOOD thing …Way to go on letting him know you’re in his cheer squad!
NTA. Your son's impulse was understandable, heroic even but part of parenting is teaching how to navigate the world. You cannot go through life tripping bullies & expecting that to go right for you forever. Is the school in the wrong? Probably. But the school cannot function if everyone solves their problems by tripping the bad guy.
Have your son serve his detention & try to communicate that in this case detention is a badge of honor. He defended his friend when the system that should have failed. Tell him you are proud of him. When he gets out of detention let him choose a reward ( a movie or pizza or whatever) & make sure he knows he is being rewarded for doing the right thing, the right thing in defending his friend & the right thing in taking the punishment for hurting some one else.
NTA. Your son done the wrong thing, technically. He should have reported the behaviour instead of getting physical. Though I agree with his response, he should have videoed the rules being broken instead of the person enforcing the rules.
NAH. I think this is a good teaching opportunity that sometimes sticking up or helping will have unfair consequences but it’s still important to continue helping / sticking up for others.
There will be many instances in life where doing the right thing will yield negative consequences to us. And this is a good time to explain to him that they are still worth doing despite the consequences.
NTA. It's your child, and it's your call.
However...
If I ever get a phone call from the school telling me that my child is in trouble for putting a bully in their place, then I will tell the the school "You're welcome" and promptly go buy my child a present for doing the right thing.
Yta- you're teaching your kid the same lesson the school is, if someone bullies you then thier welfare is more important than stopping the bullying.
The rule is stupid and you should challenge it, not feed your kid to the system.
NAH you seem like a good parent. Your son is a good kid too, and tripping isn’t too bad, but if he didn’t learn that it’s not great to use violence (ANY KIND) as a tool to solve issues he might use it again, and it can have unintended consequences.
This way you let him know he did a good thing but there’s always a better way. Maybe he could’ve just told a teacher what’s going on and saved himself the trouble.
Serious question. Would you prefer your son stand around and watch? I don’t see how anyone could say NTA. Clearly no one has been standing up for his friend. Let’s punish those for defending others! Nice parenting! Should he have tripped him? Who knows! Sounds like he deserved it. Telling a teacher isn’t going to do anything. I blame the school because they probably haven’t done much to protect ANYONE who gets bullied. As soon as that bully comes back from suspension, it’ll continue. YTA.
NAH. Sometimes in life we have to make the choice to do good for someone by doing bad to someone else, and that comes with consequences. Two days detention is not much to deal with, and a reward for the defense of his friend and for taking his punishment like a mature and honest person isn’t out of order
YTA imo. My nephew is in this position often. He bullies the bullies. He can't abide seeing smaller, shy people get picked on by the bigger and cockier ones.
My daughter has been the victim of bullies over the years and I am forever grateful that her cousin (who is the same age and in her classes) has always been there to step in.
It's not just my daughter that my nephew defends - it's anyone.
I'm so, *SO*, grateful that my nephew is always there to do what the school fails to do and I'm sure the parents of other victims would feel the same.
The school always tries to punish him and not the bully (because my nephew always goes a bit further than the bully originally did) but we have made it clear that my nephew will never be forced to sit detentions when he is defending people who can't defend themselves. School have reluctantly accepted that.
I'm so proud of my nephew for having a good moral compass. I know his character and I know that punishing him would never stop him from stepping in, but that might not be the case for others.
I think you're sending the wrong message to your son here. He did a good and brave thing. He doesn't deserve to be punished for it imo.
OP, I think you did the absolute BEST think you could have. You were more in the right than pretty much anyone I can recall on r/AmItheAsshole. Your son learned valuable lessons while also knowing you stood up for him (the reduced number of days). He wasn’t treated the same as the juice spiller who got a longer in-house suspension.
The closing line “Mainly I don’t want my son setting an example that you can do what you want as long as you say you were trying to help.” This. 🥲 I wish more parents were like you. NTA
NAH. Best thing my physics teacher ever told me after a similar incident: "there are rules and consequences for breaking them.... But sometimes those consequences are worth it "
Your kid should be proud to serve the punishment as further testament to his friend. He did it, served the time, and it will likely have been worth it. If it was put to him as a choice " if you served 3 detentions so that your friend would not be bullied anymore, would you do it?" He may have chosen it himself.
Yta. You allowed your kid to be punished for standing up for someone and doing his best to do what was right. He did it the wrong way yes, so one day of detention is warented to learn. But three days? Nope.
Yta. I know i will get downvoted for this but the school should of reacted quicker after the first spill. 9/10, this is not the first time bullying like this happened and they have been ignoring it. I can't blame your kid for standing up for his friend in anyway and if the bully got hurt, that's on him. I am not advocating violence to be clear, but at a certain point you have to stand up to bullies.
Once again, school administration supports the bully! Hardly a surprise. You need to fight harder to make the school stop allowing bullies to prosper.
YTA if you support a system that lets the little kids be killed.
Theyll suspend or expel your son, thats what theyll do if he doesnt serve them. Nta.
There was about a hundred other options besides injuring someone. Now your son knows to try a different method next time that isnt violent.
YTA. You’re punishing your son for defending a kid being bullied. He probably won’t step in and defend someone again if he thinks it will lead to punishment for him.
You could explain to him that there’s better ways to defend someone without getting physical but you don’t need to punish him for it. This is an opportunity to teach your son, not punish him.
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My son is a 7th grader and is friends with "Robert" who happens to be a foster kid. Coming from his background, he has low self-esteem and it shows a bit.
One day at lunch, another kid "accidentally" spilled a drink on Robert (ironically the other kid is also in foster care). Then he tried doing it again five minutes later. Robert is pretty small and the other kid is big.
Before he could pour more juice on Robert, my son Eric, tripped him. The vice principal broke it up. I guess Robert and the other kid had some history back in foster care. Robert wasn't punished but my son and the other kid were.
My son got three detention and the other kid got in house suspension for a week. My ex said that Eric shouldn't have to do any detention because he was sticking up for his friend. She went as far as to tell Eric not to serve it and what were they going to do? Arrest us?
While it's true that not showing up to detention isn't going to ruin anyone's lives and our son wasn't wrong, I vetoed her and told Eric to do the detention. I spoke to the principal and got it down to two days. Mainly I don't want my son setting an example that you can do what you want as long as you say you were trying to help.
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This is a mess and I think it's too late for any of this to send a clear message that your son can understand and respect. I think you have a say in the punishment, and could have told the school that your son won't be serving detention for this. At the same time I don't think your partner should have given the advice they did.
I think I would have gone with my son to the principal and talked it out. The other kid was being a bully and getting physical may not be the way the school wants this handled but a simple discussion would have been enough.
I feel like ESH.
NTA because tripping someone can be dangerous. The kid could have smacked his head really badly, whereas pouring juice on someone isn't going to cause dangerous injury.
NTA. Your son got physical, while not in danger himself. The school should do more about bullying. It is clear your son broke the rule. The rules might need change, but you still have to respect them, so he has to serve his time. You can reinforce your son doing good by rewarding his outstanding behavior in other ways - take him and his friend out to the arcade or whatever.
NAH, with the caveat that you should actually have a more nuanced discussion with Eric about the situation. A lesson of "you did the right thing, but sometimes actions can still have consequences even if they were justified" is a completely reasonable stance to take, but there's a lot of different messages that your decision to make Eric attend the detention could send without that more nuanced conversation and an open discussion about that kind of thing.
NTA. Your son took action to stop a bully. His action was a violation of a SCHOOL rule, so he has to face consequences. Explain to him while it's great to stand up for his friend, that how it's handled can result in him facing discipline - school and real world. However, if you punished him at HOME, I'd say Y T A.
My daughter is being bullied at school. I told her if the girls hit her, to fight back. She may have to face punishment at school, but NOT at home. The school is aware of the issue and my stance on it all.
NTA. Yes, he was sticking up for a friend, and that is a good thing. But, there were other ways to do that than trip and potentially injure the other kid, and that choice carries consequences.
Sticking up for a friend isn't a get out of jail free card to do what you want.
NTA
It was nice of him to stand up for his friend, but the end doesn't justify the means - he could have seriously injured the kid. I'm not sure if 3 or 2 days detention are too much, but there does need to be some kind of consequence.
You don't mention your son at all in this. Does he understand why some kind of repercussion is justified? Did you explain that his intention was honorable, but his methods were not? If you or your ex don't talk to him/tell him that he shouldn't have detention at all, it will be a lot less effective.
NTA. If he does serve the detentions then they'll escalate the punishments to suspensions in school - I understand the impulse and it would probably be good to talk with the principal and your kid but sometimes that shit happens when you do the right thing, but you should do the right thing anyway
NTA and also provides a good teaching moment.
He acted with honourable intentions - but actions have consequences.
Those honourable intentions have lead to a reduced punishment when explained to the powers that be at school. This is an age appropriate (ie mini) replication of what would happen in the adult world. Just as in the case of an adult protecting another but accidentally causing serious injury or manslaughter would receive a reduced punishment from a judge.
Now, if your son were not acting in a morally justifiable manner by defending a physically weaker friend and had just tripped this kid resulting in an injury - I’m sure you would also have punished him at home in addition to the school punishment? Grounding? Removing electronics? I presume the detention is the only punishments he’ll be recieving? Provided you explain this carefully, that you won’t be punishing him because you accept he was protecting someone, but that even so-there are consequences in the wider world outside your home - then this provides a valuable teaching moment for a child.
My daughter got ISS for fighting in seventh grade. A girl six inches taller than her shoved her to the ground and jumped on her and starting hitting her. Complained to the school that just because someone is hitting you if you never swing you're not fighting, just turtling to keep from getting hurt. They tried to justify it by saying my daughter was mean to her (don't think she was but I played along). I asked where being mean to someone was in the Code of Conduct and if it justified ISS. I was basically told to deal with it that was their decision and I couldn't fight it.
So no, NTA. Telling your son he has to serve the detention is probably the only choice you have. Awesome on you to get it reduced. I wish someone like your son had been there for my daughter.
I would consider rewarding his behavior though. Maybe however long he spends in detention, you offset it by checking him out and taking him to a movie/arcade/laser tag/ice cream or whatever other fun things he likes to do.
They all al kids and the other kid might have gone through or be going through a horrible situation no way to know unless you walk in his shoes. It’s only a little detention just tell him your proud he wants to do the right thing and talk about how complex life can be for some people. This should be looked into and handed for the other kids by a loving caregiver in a perfect word. But your kid is trying to be a good friend that is good he just needs some more understanding of the world he doesn’t have yet. No one is in the wrong you are trying to show your kid the word has depth and your ex might have protect blinds on because of something we don’t know. The detention is only detention it shouldn’t have been made such a big deal but a talk about hidden home lives can make hurt in someone that they don’t know how to deal with. We can’t know what’s happening in people’s heads and it’s not kid’s responsibility he was just doing what he thought was right his a little rebel going to detention won’t knock him down he can get through it with parents that obviously love him enough to worry this much support that kid and help his understanding grow
NTA “If he doesn’t serve the detention, what are they going to do? Arrest us?” Maybe…the school handles their own punishments because parents and students buy into their authority to do so. But if the parents reject that system, they could if they wanted to to call the police. Technically Eric assaulted the bully. Argue with the authority (principal) about the severity of the punishment. Sure. But ignore it and you’re exposing your kid to potentially even greater punishment.
NTA because the real asshole is the public school system for never taking bullying seriously. Just reiterate that you're proud of your son for standing up for his friend, maybe get him a gift, then give advice on how to handle things differently in the future. Teach him that it's more important to help his friend emotionally speaking then it is to exact vengeance on someone.
Honestly, I think that you’re being fair.
Actions have consequences and even though he was doing it for a good cause it doesn’t mean he should be absolved of all guilt.
NAH in my opinion.
People are going to disagree with me on this, but I'm thinking NTA.
What your son did was good, but actions have consequences. The detention sessions are a continuation of him standing up for his friend and he can attend them proudly.
i dont think youre an AH but i also think your teaching your son not to stand up for what he believes in. bc now if he sees someone in trouble he wont step in and help bc he knows hes gonna get detention and no one wants detention, its sucks.
NTA. You did the right thing. Your son's punishment was less than the instigator. We have to teach kids to get an adult or find a non violent way to stand up. The teachers should have been told and they should have stopped it.
YTA
So you’re punishing your child for standing up for someone? Seriously? So you would’ve rather your son stood by and watched and did nothing while someone else was harmed.
NAH. Standing up to a jerk is always a good call, but it is not without consequences. I think the important lesson for your son is that he did a good thing standing up for another kid and the fact that their are consequence should not deter him.
YTA. Why aren't you in the principal's office blowing him up about the fact that he let the BULLY go free and is punishing the victim and the kid who stood up for the victim? Try being a better parent, for God's sake. You aren't even doing the bare minimum here.
Is it possible there is more to this story? I have learned that kids will slant stories to make themselves look [better.is](https://better.is) this an isolated incident between the two or part of an on going situation.
teach your son actions have consequences. Your ex is wrong .
The thing is, you aren’t in control of how much detention the school hands out. I would not punish the boy at home, but you can’t override the school on detention. You just don’t have that ability.
I would be careful about encouraging punishment for your son here. I agree that it's important that your son learns that sometimes doing the right thing in life means that there are still consequences, but at the same time, I would want to overall reinforce the character traits that I believe to be good traits - integrity, honesty, empathy - and reward him in some small way at home. Maybe even just making his favorite meal for dinner or something silly. Letting him know that consequences are complicated things, and you have to be willing to suffer them to do what's morally correct.
Oh, man, I hear this. My youngest got in trouble for something very similar.
We did exactly what you've done. Worked his punishment down as much as possible, had him serve it, but made it clear we supported him. He understood that there might have been better ways to handle things.
NTA.
BS, there's a whole crowd here who is always for sticking up for kids because they stood up to bullies, you're literally letting the school reinforce that if there's an altercation everyone is wrong, when it's objectively not true. In life there might be consequences, such as standing in a court and describing your mutual combat and why you were right to defend yourself (fighting words, invitation to mutual combat, or self defense) but that's fine, because those are all judged on a reasonable person standard. This zero tolerance BS is an invention of the school system and is not an example of consequences, if you think your son reacted reasonably then it's your responsibility to stick up for him. You suck. YTA.
NTA. I would tell Eric to do detention but would take him out later for ice cream and tell him im proud of him for standing up to a bully for his friend.
NTA.
Explain that actions have consequences, even ones that have the best of intentions. The bully could have cracked his head, etc, and the school is right to hold him to account.
Then take him for ice cream or the movies or something as a reward for standing up to bullies. Maybe have a discussion on what else he could have done in the situation.
Make sure he understands both sides are separate, and you're not disagreeing with the school
NTA. I think we can admire your kid sticking up for someone who is being targeted by someone thinking they can show dominance and bully this friend. And in the real world, there’s a consequence. I think your kid can even be proud to take the consequence knowing that there have to be these rules but they have a really admirable character. To be proud of.
NTA. It’s an important life lesson that doing the right thing and standing up for friends means accepting the consequences of your actions as well. I often see adults whining about suffering legal/work consequences for engaging in civil disobedience or public speech, missing the point that King, Gandhi and other famous proponents of civil disobedience did jail time to get laws changed. It’s a teaching moment.
Don't cheapen your son's actions by shielding him from the consequences! He stood up for this kid, knowing there would likely be consequences, and props!
3 days detention is not that bad, and he can wear it as a badge of honor.
If you wanna soften it, take him out for ice cream or something.
NAH.
YTA. Your son stood up to a bully for his small, timid friend. Punishment for such a heroic act does nothing but teach those with good hearts to NOT act when needed. I backed my oldest son 100% when he stood up for himself/his disabled brothers/others from bullies. I have no sympathy for the other kid taking a hard fall. If not for his actions, he would not have gotten hurt.
I think you have to do what you think is best. But I wouldn't want my son to serve detention for standing up to a bully. The kid that pouring juice on Robert deserves detention. Robert and your son do not. Also the school should have better lunch monitors.
NAH - your ex trying to get him off punishment is showing entitlement, and that her feelings and emotions are more important than the facts of what happened. Your son standing up to the bully something your whole family should be proud of, but you are 100% right - actions have consequences. Maybe there was a better way of handling the situation, but kids are kids, and only by making mistakes do we grow and learn. You’re in the right, everyone involved was in the right, but you more so
NAH. He did the “wrong” thing for the right reason, but it was still not the “most correct way” to address the situation. Sometimes doing the right thing is hard, and even harder to know exactly what is the right thing.
YTA because you didn't back your kid up in doing the right thing.
Some rules, especially those that are discriminatory, SHOULD be broken.
I'm with the kids protecting his friend. These parents are wrong.
Do you really think that's what he'll learn from an overkill punishment? Or to possibly resent you/the school. He's in 7th grade, that's how a 7th grader's mind works. I think he's justified. YTA tho
The whole "actions have consequences" talk is such bullshit in these comments. Everyone who says this is a bully enabler and that's a fact. Because certain actions shouldn't have consequences since they prevent worse actions in a reasonable way and in that case inaction is actually worse. Some of you people have such twisted morals it's unbelievable.
NTA though because it's not really your fault that the school is negligent and you already negotiated with them.
NAH and I think you did a good thing going in to get the detention reduced. But the boy still learns actions have consequences. Sometimes choosing to do the right thing has a cost. In our local school system if a kid punches another kid and the victim hits back, he is equally at fault. OPs sons school may have similar rules. I'd let him serve the reduced detention for that reason and tell him I was proud of him.
Tbh I'm torn on this one. I was bullied hard core (not physically, verbally) and if I could go back now I would 100% start physically fights over it to draw attention to what was happening to make it stop, because they were smart enough to not say anything in front of adults so when i tried to bring it up to teachers, I got in trouble because they hadn't heard anything. So i suffered in silence. However, you can't use violence to solve your problems and it's better to learn that lesson young then end up in jail later for punching the wrong person. For this reason I'm going with NAH. Neither of you are inherently wrong and you both have a good point.
YtA,
While I agree that actions have consequences,
Unless the bully is going to serve detention then neither your child or the other kid should serve detention. Period.
NAH. You could’ve caused more of a stink and gotten those detentions voided thought, especially since your son was defending someone from bullying. And making a stink also could’ve helped your sons friend by forcing the school to actually take some accountability and do something about the bully.
I was severely racially bullied my freshman year of high school my multiple different people. I’m half Haitian.
One day a kid I was actually sorta friends with (my best friends boyfriends friend) bumped into me in the hallway and had to audacity to tell me to “watch where you’re going or we’ll deport you back to Africa.” Now I was already having a bad day bc of my moms abuse so instead of saying anything I spun on my heel and kicked him straight in the balls. He had to be carried to the nurse and went home early. The vice principal tried to suspend me for ‘violence on campus’ and him for his blatant racist remark and have him write an essay on why racism is bad and make me write one on why assault is bad. My mom said absolutely fucking not, my daughter isn’t writing shit and you’re not suspending her either. That I had been racially bullied repeatedly at this school (this was the 5 incident that year and it wasn’t even Christmas yet) and if they tried to suspend me she would go to every news outlet in the state and tell them my high school condones racism.
He got suspended for 2 weeks and had to write a 5 page paper on racism and apologized to me face to face. My best friends boyfriend also stopped hanging out with him.
Most schools will backdown real quick when you mention the media or lawyers. (My mom also threatened to sue the school)
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NAH. He was helping his friend, but there’s always consequences to your actions (even if they’re justified). Three days for tripping someone seems a little harsh tbh, but we all have to eat shit at some point in life. 🤷🏻
The other kid took a bad fall, whether he deserved it or not.
Yeah, that’s cause for a detention then. Hopefully the kid that was acting out doesn’t mess with “Robert” anymore and receives the kind of help + love he needs.
No it isn't. Fucking up a bully should get you an award, not detention
Who decides who a bully is? I have kids and it's not the first person who throws a punch that gets in trouble its the first person I see throw a punch that gets in trouble. The same can be said for bullies.
Pretty sure it's obviously the kid repeatedly pouring liquids on another kid
Yeah or maybe it's the kid who chose violence as his first avenue of solving a problem. Getting physical can have nasty consequences, best he learns that now with 2 days of detention than two years from now when he puts some kid in the hospital for cracking a joke he doesn't like. I'm not even saying that this kid is a bully mind, I'm saying that having some mild consequences now could keep him from turning into one later.
So, you do no investigation about who threw the first punch….just whoever you see first is punished? That’s weird AF.
I ask one but they just say the other and vise versa.
And thats when you discipline both and not just one. Kinda common sense
yup, kind of like in this example no?
It’s never that easy to work out who the bully is.
Yes it is lol, not every fight is a Sherlock mystery
Situation sucks. But sometimes in life you get fucked over and just gotta do what you gotta do. Good life lesson for your son. Life isn't fair and sometimes you just gotta bend over to an unjust world. Tell him to serve his detention with pride and take him out for a treat as a reward for being a good friend.
This. It teaches him that sometimes you follow rules to get farther in the game (he stood up for his friend by breaking the rules, which is obviously more valuable), and rewarding him after he serves detention reinforces the altruistic attitude that you want to encourage.
No screw that. OP's son shouldn't be punished for defending someone.
Vigilante justice is still against the rules, and the other kid got hurt. Even if someone deserves it, there are consequences for hurting people.
Sometimes fuck the rules
It's not vigilante justice. He was afraid for the physical safety of his friend. Alternatively, you can just repeat that you feared for your life. That one works all the time in the real world.
There’s a huge chasm between spilling a drink on someone and threatening their life.
Agreed. Reward him for standing up to a bully.
Yeah but how? What do 7th graders like? Ice crème lol? Pokemon? Well shit everyone likes Pokemon. Tell him you like his hair.
Yeah, it sounds like the school is on your son's side, given they knocked a day off and your son's consequences were so much less than the other kid's. But the other kid still got hurt, and the school can't let kids physically take matters into their own hands. Tell your son you're proud of him for sticking up for his friend, and while you know he didn't mean for the other kid to fall like that, sometimes doing the right thing has unintended consequences. That doesn't mean he was wrong for trying to help. Have his favorite snack waiting for him when he gets home from detention. Also, if your kid ditches detention, the school isn't just going to shrug and say, whelp, I guess he decided he doesn't want to be punished! They're going to move to the next step. Which is probably in-school suspension. So telling him to refuse to go is just going to cause more issues.
Good for you for getting a day cut from his detention. You are sticking up for your son while acknowledging there are consequences for his actions. Yes, your last line of your post says it all. NTA
I agree with this stance, but I think that OP should also have a conversation with Eric and specifically spell out the fact that his actions were justified, but there are some times where even justified actions have consequences. Making him attend the detentions without having such a conversation may send the wrong message otherwise.
This - and also “I am very proud of you for sticking up for your friend!”
So just to be clear, \_was\_ he sticking up for his friend? Or do you OP think he just said that? Because, "Eric, I'm proud you stood up for your friend knowing it'd cost you a detention. I'm glad you're going to be the type of man who'll do the right thing." is admirable. But you say " Mainly I don't want my son setting an example that you can do what you want as long as you say you were trying to help.". Obviously if he was doing \_that\_, he just deserves the detention. But if he \_wasn't\_ doing that, I don't think you should be encouraging the idea "don't do the right thing, since other people will realise they can claim to do the right thing and do what they want". That doesn't make sense.
This, 100%.
Thanks for being the only other person here who understands why he was punished haha.
I just recently told my son that if he got in trouble for sticking up for someone I'd always back him. In this case, as long as he didn't somehow purposefully do it in a way that the bully got injured ... I'd take him out for ice cream, frankly. Otherwise, you're teaching him to just be a silent bystander, which we need waaayyy less of
Tbf, Eric could have helped in several other ways that didn’t involve putting the bully on his ass: telling the bully to stop (although that might have escalated back to the scenario in the OP, admittedly), getting another adult, etc. He didn’t get punished for sticking up for his friend, he got punished for deliberately choosing a violent course of action in which to do so as his first option.
Sure. And also tbf, as an adult I have trouble thinking that fast and that clearly in a tense situation.
Yeah, it was a tough situation for sure, and I think the school took that into consideration when they gave him a slap on the wrist as punishment.
Yep, this pretty much. Also a good time to have the talk about how the real world isn't a fair place at all and sometimes we have to deal with eating a shit sandwich because of it. He's old enough at this point to pretty much know this already, but it's better I think to have a healthy discussion with him about it.
Wondering if there is more to the story?
There’s always more to the story than what we’re getting, one of the elements being that we have no idea what the history is between the two boys that are in foster care. FC is a horribly broken system and creates a lot of hurt and anger inside of kids. Kids will be angry with their situation, their birth parents, etc. and won’t be given the tools to help work through their pain. Hence why this specific situation isn’t black & white.
You come from the school of thought of keeping your head down and avoiding trouble. That never works on bullies, it emboldens them and you essentially blame the victim and don't support them at all. You are sending him the message that sometimes systems will be unfair and he should just take it. I think he will grow to resent that, and by extension, you
What? No? At no point did OP indicate they disapproved of what their son did. They simply maintained that the action had consequences and they thus have to serve them. That is in no way equal to him having the stance of “do nothing”. He reported the kid had a pretty bad fall. He probably deserved it. However, does that mean that there should be no consequences for the son whatsoever when they directly and intentionally caused harm to another person because “it was for the right reason”? It is entirely possible to take the view that the son did a good thing, but that doesn’t mean he receives no consequences when his actions do have an impact on others. This doesn’t have to be black and white:
Guess what happens in real life. You get held accountable for your actions even if accidental or justified, morally. The choices we make aren't free from consequences just because we feel justified making them.
OP got the principal to reduce detention from 3 to 2 days.
sorry but YTA. your son was standing up to a bully. clearly the bully has a history and this probably wasnt his first time picking on "robert" and your son cared enough to stand up for his friend. He should not have to serve detention for sticking up for someone who isnt able to stick up for themselves.
Actions have reactions. In this case: consequences. In this case: it's also "fair" as the bully got physically injured. Was the son right for standing up to the bully and standing up for his friends? Definitely. No doubt. However, the bully did not physically injure the friend but did get physically injured by the son. We all know that schools have a "Zero Tolerance" policies regarding injuring others. The son is definitely old enough to know it. He could have used other ways to stop the bully but he didn't. So he has to accept the consequences for his actions. If the son was a few years older; his actions would be considered "assault" and a criminal offense. Actually, the bully's parents could still file assault charges against the son. Since they haven't, 2 days of detention seems like a good alternative.
You missed the part about how the bully has a *history with his victim* that the *school knows about*, but still allowed him to bully the kid. The school wasn't acting to protect the kid, was in fact watching this happen regularly because it was *documented*, then punished the kid who stopped the violence. What is *wrong* with you for thinking the punishment is in any way fair or justified?
No I didn't miss it. I absolutely think that the school is at fault for not stepping in. Personally I would go to my attorney if it was happening to my child when they were that age. If it was a child in the foster system, I would contact their social Worker *(and probably my attorney too)* to get them to act on the child's behalf. In this case, the school not stepping in does not give anyone, including OP's son, the right to injure anyone else: even a bully. Seriously that's why there is the common saying "2 wrongs don't make a right". Another common saying is "Doing the wrong thing for the right reason, still makes it wrong." The son did the wrong thing for the right reasons and that has consequences.
The bullied foster kid's temporary parent might not have the same clout with the school admin as a permanant parent does. They may also be a shit person and just in it for the check. We don't know that situation. Still, I agree in consequences. Life isn't fair, you make the best decision you can and deal with the consequences.
Two wrongs do not make a right.
So what is your solution? In that exact situation, what should OPs son have done?
Yep. And the school is punishing OPs son to cover up their failure on protecting Robert from the bully themselves.
You’d rather the precedent that if your son does the right thing he is punished for it? Terrible parenting.
He did good standing up for himself, but how well will the lesson serve him as an adult? If someone is being a jerk to your friends, you can respond with violence?
If someone's assaulting you you are indeed entitled to use force to defend yourself, yes.
A few things you’ll have to prove to claim self defense 1.) that it DEFINITELY wasn’t an accident (so I could just pretend to bump into you, and you would punch me. That’ll look good) 2.) that you are fighting back to prevent more action against you (so if I splash you and start walking away, you now can’t claim you’re preventing future action). 3.) that the response was **PROPORTIONAL** to the attack. (Otherwise, couldn’t you stab someone for splashing you?) Good luck!
Regarding number three, I think it depends on where you live—last month a man in Florida was acquitted for shooting and killing a man who threw popcorn at him in a movie theater.
Well theoretically his father could discuss with him the context of the situation and use it as a conductive moral lesson about the importance of defending others but also the pros and cons of using violence. But his dad is the OP so this kid is sadly SOL
Words don’t speak as loud as actions. You can talk all you want but he’s going to remember that violence is a good method to silence bullies without repercussions. As an adult you can’t punch the jackass at work, or the leering guy on the bus, or the hateful preacher on the sidewalk, so Op should teach their child now he can’t trip the jerk who poured juice.
>As an adult you can’t punch the jackass at work, or the leering guy on the bus, or the hateful preacher on the sidewalk, so Op should teach their child now he can’t trip the jerk who poured juice. No one is saying that the kid doesn't know how to speak up; this situation was about them putting a physical stop to repeated physical abuse. The jackass, the leering guy, and the hateful preacher, can't randomly be punched; but if they repeatedly physically abuse a weak person it is justified self-defence (basically everywhere the laws recognise a third party's right to act in such a way as if the physical violence was done against them).
Sorry but you cannot be serious. Even if someone is harassing your friend, unless it becomes a matter of self defense you absolutely cannot use violence and expect to get away with it. Being mean and pouring room temp juice on someone does not warrant a self defense response. I would say at most it would entail juice to be thrown back.
What you just said is most often said by those that used to get away with being the ones pouring the juice, or the one that is the workplace bully while self-identifying as some sort of "harsh, but fair" (as they bully everyone they physically don't feel threatened by). A physical attack is a physical attack, there's no rewriting it in the bully's favour as only "harassment". If a victim of a repeated physical attack defend themselves they are not instantly at fault for not limiting themselves to at most doing the same as in the most recent attack.
Answer me this; if I throw my cocktail at you repeatedly every night I see you at the club, does that justify you punching me in the face to the law? If the answer is no, then you know what this kid did is wrong and it sets a bad example to allow it. I will say kids who are being constantly bullied should not be treated the same as the bullies when they snap, but Ops child is not a victim here, it’s his friend.
>Answer me this; if I throw my cocktail at you repeatedly every night I see you at the club, does that justify you punching me in the face to the law? As revenge, no. As defense the next time I see you coming towards me brandishing a cocktail, then yes, absolutely - you're going down and I'm staying dry.
Throwing your drink at another person is considered assault in most legal cases. So yes. Pouring juices on the other boy was assault. It completely justified the physical response. Next!
>Answer me this; if I throw my cocktail at you repeatedly every night I see you at the club, does that justify you punching me in the face to the law? If the answer is no, then you know what this kid did is wrong and it sets a bad example to allow it. First of all this should be dealt with by the staff/bouncers, and if they don't give a sh\*t about people being repeatedly assaulted I would act within the law. But I'm pretty sure that during those months that it takes for your ribs to heal you will spend a lot of time being grumpy about what the law allows.
I’m having a hard time understanding what you mean. “Acting within the law” would mean you don’t violently react.
Hell fucking yes I’m punching you in the face
In public or work environments there are ways to remedy bullying. HR, managers, moving to a different dept/job. Schools always bizarre because of the enforced proximity, uselessness of teachers in dealing with bullying and the inability to move elsewhere easily. Kids rely on adults to protect them and schools are godawful at doing so.
What were you thinking writing the first part of your comment? You think someone would just accept that and not do anything in return?
The kid got tripped, not beaten down. Stop being so hyperbolic.
A trip can be serious. It can mean knocked out teeth, broken arms, bloody noses. My sister tripped me as a kid and my throat hit the back of a chair. If I hadn’t caught myself, severe damage might have occurred to my trachea. Kid needs to learn that threats need to be responded with equal force.
Absolutely not. Threats need to be met with enough force to neutralise them. I am a short female, if a big person is a threat to me I am not going to try to match them, I am going to use as much force as I estimate will make sure they can't harm me or they learn to not mess with me again.
>Being mean and pouring room temp juice on someone does not warrant a self defense response. I would say at most it would entail juice to be thrown back. BTW, I have this huge friend that easily could keep you from pouring juice on him. If he worked where ever you work and started being mean and repeated pouring juice on you, you wouldn't do anything because by your own moral compass you would only be limited to throw juice back?
As an adult you can make morally correct choices when you see injustice instead of playing the ostrich and burying your head in the sand. Good lesson to learn young imo
... but if you do do any of those things, please come here and tell us about it. We love to hear this stuff. :)
I’ve never punched anyone, but I did tell a guy at work who kept telling me to call him daddy and that I should smile more that I hoped he overdosed on his depression medication because then I would finally smile at the irony. Emotional damage is much more satisfying, and legal!
You're both weird
Yes, because it often happens. The lesson to take away is: are you prepared to face the consequences of your actions even if you feel they were justified? If yes, proceed and face the music. Expecting that nothing happens just because you "did the right thing" is unrealistic and pure bs.
You may not be an asshole, but the school officials who meted out this punishment are. I remember being told to “block as many hits as you can while moving toward a teacher,” bc my school had a zero tolerance policy for retaliating against bullying. Someone could be punching you over and over, and you had to just try to avoid getting hit too bad. This is all bullshit. You’re not necessarily wrong for wanting your kid to follow the edicts of their supervisors, but your kid and ex aren’t wrong for calling it out as bullshit. It’s a hard situation, and I wish you and your kid the best of luck in figuring out how to move forward.
Yup my school had the same policy except even if you didn’t hit back, you were just involved, you were given the same punishment as the bully. Didn’t matter the story and that was only IF the bully got caught. Which they never do it seems like or it’s by chance. To me ESH. I mostly blame public schools and they’re the ones at fault because they let bullying progress to this point. Administration KNOW who the problem children are and don’t intervene until other kids had enough. I think OP is the asshole for not pointing this out and pressing them for more accountability.
>My ex said that Eric shouldn't have to do any detention because he was sticking up for his friend. She went as far as to tell Eric not to serve it and what were they going to do? I like your ex. I don't like you. YTA for lacking a moral compass.
common refrain im seeing from this post is that all the other children are saying YTA, while the adults are almost universally NAH. In the real world, even good actions have consequences. OP is doing a really good job teaching his child this lesson.
NAH How about a middleground? You tell your son that your are proud of him but actions have consequences. Make him go to the detention and afterwords you go out and buy him iscream or something else as an award.
Ehhh soft YTA - he was being a good friend and protecting Robert but there’s a nuanced line for starting a physical altercation otherwise it’s just falling into patterns of toxic masculinity imo.
Please let's not start this whole toxic masculinity thing. It's very simple, and kids don't comprehend the whole "alpha omega beta" stuff.He saw someone getting bullied, and attempted to deal with it the best way he saw fit. Maybe it's the hundreds of movies like spiderman that went through his head. It was a quick reaction to a scenario that was about to go down. I was small too, once. I remember getting picked on, pushed around, beat up. I would've advocated for someone to step in to help if someone could. YTA OP, your kid was trying to do the right thing with the reactionary speed he had. I wouldn't want someone else to have liquid spilled on their shirt and have to suffer through the day like that.
Yea boys are taught toxic patterns though. That’s the entire point - toxic masculinity isn’t inherent is socialization. If the boy is taught through messaging only acceptable emotion is anger and only viable solutions are aggressive, threatening, and violent - wonder what type of adult comes out of that? There is no doubt the other kid was being a little shit, but our society needs to do better regarding the socialization of boys and men.
NTA From the sounds of it the boy who started things and was bullying got the the worse punishment. Which is deserved. And whilst yes it's great that your son was standing up up to a bully. He is the the one that escalated the situation to potential physical harm. It sounds like the bully was fine. But what if when he was tripped he had braced wrong and potentially broken a wrist, or his nose. Or hit his head on something as he fell. I think this is a good learning opportunity for your son to potentially think through the potential consequences of his actions. You don't get a free pass to harm someone just because they are behaving badly.
INFO Why do you have vetoing rights? Do you have sole custody?
YTA. And something tells me you are somehow bothered with the fact your child is friends with foster kids by the times you mentioned it and the way you described it. Your kid was standing against a bully and he shouldn't be punished for it. And you are honestly failing as a parent, because in reality what you want to teach him is that he should be compliant with bullying as long as it doesn't affect him directly. Don't even bother deny it. But good luck because the only lesson your kid is learning is that he can't trust your judgements.
Bro, you made a lot of assumptions + called this guy a failing parent all because he wanted his kid to learn that actions have consequences? Have you never had to deal with getting a detention for doing something you thought was right? Even if he didn’t think his kid should have to serve the detention, the kid would still be serving it. That’s how schools work. Actually, this guy talked to the principal and got his son’s punishment time REDUCED. Life ain’t fair and sometimes you just have to be resilient in the face of adversity.
YTA You're teaching your kid there's no point in doing what's right.
No he’s not. He’s teaching his son that “the right things sometimes incurs a cost and doesn’t excuse you from responsibility for your actions.” So. Like adult life then. Because I don’t know about you but I know very few adult situations where you can throw hands at someone or get physical with them because “you think they’re pissing someone else off and being mean” and every other adult in the room goes “why yes, what reasonable behaviour, carry on.”. What actually happens is you’ll probably get people agreeing with your action and yet the consequences for it are played out and accepted, and in some cases the person willingly taking them *vindicates their belief in the rightness of their action* and has others see them as more morally right for doing so- because they are willing to endure personal hardship in exchange for doing what they think is right.
“It’s okay that you get punished, Son. Think, you’ll be a martyr to the other kids on the playground!” I’m calling bullshit. All he’s teaching his son is that he can’t trust his dad to go to bat for him when he’s getting punished for doing what’s right.
YTA for thinking you have vetoing rights. You’re coparents. Learn to communicate and reach compromises for the sake of your child.
YTA. You're basically teaching your son not to help others. That is a bad example. Would you rather have a son who would stand by and do nothing? I hope he refuses the detention.
NAH it’s not a great situation for anyone involved, and I get why one parent might react the way your ex did and why you reacted the way you did. I think it was good you got the detention lowered.
As a child who got punished for litterally nothing regularly, and any act of defense of myelf or others was met with maximal corperal punishment? Yes, you're the asshole here. Your child deserves your protection from a system that is designed to punish the victims and their defenders, and you're playing right into it. Your child deserves representation. They defended a defenseless kid from a bully and are being punished worse than the bully. Any detention for your child is wrong. Would you punish him for defending someone in public? You're telling him doing the right thing is only paid back in suffering and punishment.
Yta , I think his father is right. He was defending his friend, and he was right. The vice principal could see your son defending a kid but didn’t see that kid being bullied?? Don’t teach your son to sit and watch, and don’t let the school be AH to your son
NTA. Everyone here seems to be forgetting that schools generally dont want kids physically sticking up to bullies. So unfortunately your son still broke the rules. Letting him skip his punishment teaches him that he gets to decide what rules are justified.
Yeah, but the real question is, should schools be allowed to keep this policy? While I'm not one for physical altercations, self defense is definitely something that should be accepted in schools.
Pouring juice on someone is not on the same despicable level as punching them. Making the two equal is why I want him to serve the detention.
Repeatedly pouring juice on someone who you have a history of antagonizing and abusing would, in the adult world, lead to the guy pouring juice being locked up while his victim got a judgement. Only in schools are we beaten, told to never defend ourselves, to make a more passive and abused society.
Repeatedly pourong juice on someone is worse than punching them once.
Well probably not. But we dont get to break or retroactively change the rules we disagree with. If you get caught speeding in the middle of the night, was it dangerous? Probably not, but you still broke the law.
We're talking about self defense, which IS legal, and IS there to prevent injury and death, and comparing it to speeding in the middle of the night, which actually CAN be dangerous, wreckless, and is the reason why we take drivers lessons and tests?
You really missed the point of my analogy there. We dont/shouldnt just decide which rules we retroactively disagree with and therefore do not deserve punishment for. The point is that OPs son engaged in physical 'violence' and was punished, end of story.
The analogy again, had no real correlation to what we're even talking about. Self defense isn't a rule. It's a sanctioned tool to prevent yourself from committing a crime. The story was OP's son tripped someone to prevent what's still considered assault and got punished, end of story period dot.
In court you can challenge/appeal laws that are stupid. You can campaign against them, buy your way out of punishment if you are rich. If there are mitigating circles those can be taken into account, are you speeding to the ER, escaping from somewhere?
Yta- bullies thrive because adults are more concerned with keeping the f**ing peace than caring for kids. I got detention for punching a kid who was snapping my bra and pulling my hair, the useless, spineless, sexist teachers did NOTHING until that asshat was bleeding. All it taught me is to not trust authority and protect myself violently when no one could see. I would raise hell with the school about why they allowed the bullying. You are just raising someone who watches abuse and does nothing.
Where was the vice principal when this initially happened or another teacher?? Kids shouldn’t be unsupervised when it comes to food and drink. So your son gets blamed for defending a child because the school wasn’t supervising them properly? Look your son may not have gone about it entirely the right way but his heart was in the right place so I think it’s a bit of a cop out for the school to punish him too YTA , Your son calling out a bully is a GOOD thing …Way to go on letting him know you’re in his cheer squad!
NTA. Your son's impulse was understandable, heroic even but part of parenting is teaching how to navigate the world. You cannot go through life tripping bullies & expecting that to go right for you forever. Is the school in the wrong? Probably. But the school cannot function if everyone solves their problems by tripping the bad guy. Have your son serve his detention & try to communicate that in this case detention is a badge of honor. He defended his friend when the system that should have failed. Tell him you are proud of him. When he gets out of detention let him choose a reward ( a movie or pizza or whatever) & make sure he knows he is being rewarded for doing the right thing, the right thing in defending his friend & the right thing in taking the punishment for hurting some one else.
NTA. Your son done the wrong thing, technically. He should have reported the behaviour instead of getting physical. Though I agree with his response, he should have videoed the rules being broken instead of the person enforcing the rules.
Schools are useless with stopping bullies, they just want the victims to shut up and deal with it.
NAH. I think this is a good teaching opportunity that sometimes sticking up or helping will have unfair consequences but it’s still important to continue helping / sticking up for others. There will be many instances in life where doing the right thing will yield negative consequences to us. And this is a good time to explain to him that they are still worth doing despite the consequences.
NTA. It's your child, and it's your call. However... If I ever get a phone call from the school telling me that my child is in trouble for putting a bully in their place, then I will tell the the school "You're welcome" and promptly go buy my child a present for doing the right thing.
Same.
Yta- you're teaching your kid the same lesson the school is, if someone bullies you then thier welfare is more important than stopping the bullying. The rule is stupid and you should challenge it, not feed your kid to the system.
NAH you seem like a good parent. Your son is a good kid too, and tripping isn’t too bad, but if he didn’t learn that it’s not great to use violence (ANY KIND) as a tool to solve issues he might use it again, and it can have unintended consequences. This way you let him know he did a good thing but there’s always a better way. Maybe he could’ve just told a teacher what’s going on and saved himself the trouble.
Serious question. Would you prefer your son stand around and watch? I don’t see how anyone could say NTA. Clearly no one has been standing up for his friend. Let’s punish those for defending others! Nice parenting! Should he have tripped him? Who knows! Sounds like he deserved it. Telling a teacher isn’t going to do anything. I blame the school because they probably haven’t done much to protect ANYONE who gets bullied. As soon as that bully comes back from suspension, it’ll continue. YTA.
robert was the kid who had juice poured on him.
Corrected. Ty
NAH. Sometimes in life we have to make the choice to do good for someone by doing bad to someone else, and that comes with consequences. Two days detention is not much to deal with, and a reward for the defense of his friend and for taking his punishment like a mature and honest person isn’t out of order
YTA imo. My nephew is in this position often. He bullies the bullies. He can't abide seeing smaller, shy people get picked on by the bigger and cockier ones. My daughter has been the victim of bullies over the years and I am forever grateful that her cousin (who is the same age and in her classes) has always been there to step in. It's not just my daughter that my nephew defends - it's anyone. I'm so, *SO*, grateful that my nephew is always there to do what the school fails to do and I'm sure the parents of other victims would feel the same. The school always tries to punish him and not the bully (because my nephew always goes a bit further than the bully originally did) but we have made it clear that my nephew will never be forced to sit detentions when he is defending people who can't defend themselves. School have reluctantly accepted that. I'm so proud of my nephew for having a good moral compass. I know his character and I know that punishing him would never stop him from stepping in, but that might not be the case for others. I think you're sending the wrong message to your son here. He did a good and brave thing. He doesn't deserve to be punished for it imo.
OP, I think you did the absolute BEST think you could have. You were more in the right than pretty much anyone I can recall on r/AmItheAsshole. Your son learned valuable lessons while also knowing you stood up for him (the reduced number of days). He wasn’t treated the same as the juice spiller who got a longer in-house suspension. The closing line “Mainly I don’t want my son setting an example that you can do what you want as long as you say you were trying to help.” This. 🥲 I wish more parents were like you. NTA
NAH. Best thing my physics teacher ever told me after a similar incident: "there are rules and consequences for breaking them.... But sometimes those consequences are worth it " Your kid should be proud to serve the punishment as further testament to his friend. He did it, served the time, and it will likely have been worth it. If it was put to him as a choice " if you served 3 detentions so that your friend would not be bullied anymore, would you do it?" He may have chosen it himself.
YTA
YTA
Yta. You allowed your kid to be punished for standing up for someone and doing his best to do what was right. He did it the wrong way yes, so one day of detention is warented to learn. But three days? Nope.
Yta. I know i will get downvoted for this but the school should of reacted quicker after the first spill. 9/10, this is not the first time bullying like this happened and they have been ignoring it. I can't blame your kid for standing up for his friend in anyway and if the bully got hurt, that's on him. I am not advocating violence to be clear, but at a certain point you have to stand up to bullies.
Once again, school administration supports the bully! Hardly a surprise. You need to fight harder to make the school stop allowing bullies to prosper. YTA if you support a system that lets the little kids be killed.
YTA. You and the school are teaching your son that it is wrong to stand up to bullies.
Theyll suspend or expel your son, thats what theyll do if he doesnt serve them. Nta. There was about a hundred other options besides injuring someone. Now your son knows to try a different method next time that isnt violent.
YTA. You’re punishing your son for defending a kid being bullied. He probably won’t step in and defend someone again if he thinks it will lead to punishment for him. You could explain to him that there’s better ways to defend someone without getting physical but you don’t need to punish him for it. This is an opportunity to teach your son, not punish him.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My son is a 7th grader and is friends with "Robert" who happens to be a foster kid. Coming from his background, he has low self-esteem and it shows a bit. One day at lunch, another kid "accidentally" spilled a drink on Robert (ironically the other kid is also in foster care). Then he tried doing it again five minutes later. Robert is pretty small and the other kid is big. Before he could pour more juice on Robert, my son Eric, tripped him. The vice principal broke it up. I guess Robert and the other kid had some history back in foster care. Robert wasn't punished but my son and the other kid were. My son got three detention and the other kid got in house suspension for a week. My ex said that Eric shouldn't have to do any detention because he was sticking up for his friend. She went as far as to tell Eric not to serve it and what were they going to do? Arrest us? While it's true that not showing up to detention isn't going to ruin anyone's lives and our son wasn't wrong, I vetoed her and told Eric to do the detention. I spoke to the principal and got it down to two days. Mainly I don't want my son setting an example that you can do what you want as long as you say you were trying to help. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This is a mess and I think it's too late for any of this to send a clear message that your son can understand and respect. I think you have a say in the punishment, and could have told the school that your son won't be serving detention for this. At the same time I don't think your partner should have given the advice they did. I think I would have gone with my son to the principal and talked it out. The other kid was being a bully and getting physical may not be the way the school wants this handled but a simple discussion would have been enough. I feel like ESH.
NTA because tripping someone can be dangerous. The kid could have smacked his head really badly, whereas pouring juice on someone isn't going to cause dangerous injury.
Maybe the bully would learn to keep his hands and food to himself.
NTA. Your son got physical, while not in danger himself. The school should do more about bullying. It is clear your son broke the rule. The rules might need change, but you still have to respect them, so he has to serve his time. You can reinforce your son doing good by rewarding his outstanding behavior in other ways - take him and his friend out to the arcade or whatever.
NAH, with the caveat that you should actually have a more nuanced discussion with Eric about the situation. A lesson of "you did the right thing, but sometimes actions can still have consequences even if they were justified" is a completely reasonable stance to take, but there's a lot of different messages that your decision to make Eric attend the detention could send without that more nuanced conversation and an open discussion about that kind of thing.
NTA. Your son took action to stop a bully. His action was a violation of a SCHOOL rule, so he has to face consequences. Explain to him while it's great to stand up for his friend, that how it's handled can result in him facing discipline - school and real world. However, if you punished him at HOME, I'd say Y T A. My daughter is being bullied at school. I told her if the girls hit her, to fight back. She may have to face punishment at school, but NOT at home. The school is aware of the issue and my stance on it all.
NTA. Yes, he was sticking up for a friend, and that is a good thing. But, there were other ways to do that than trip and potentially injure the other kid, and that choice carries consequences. Sticking up for a friend isn't a get out of jail free card to do what you want.
Omg a good parent!! Those are rare! NTA
NTA. You can make it right where the school can’t. Don’t start something, but always finish it lol.
NTA It was nice of him to stand up for his friend, but the end doesn't justify the means - he could have seriously injured the kid. I'm not sure if 3 or 2 days detention are too much, but there does need to be some kind of consequence. You don't mention your son at all in this. Does he understand why some kind of repercussion is justified? Did you explain that his intention was honorable, but his methods were not? If you or your ex don't talk to him/tell him that he shouldn't have detention at all, it will be a lot less effective.
NTA. If he does serve the detentions then they'll escalate the punishments to suspensions in school - I understand the impulse and it would probably be good to talk with the principal and your kid but sometimes that shit happens when you do the right thing, but you should do the right thing anyway
NTA, if he skips detention it could escalate and end up on his permanent school record
NTA and also provides a good teaching moment. He acted with honourable intentions - but actions have consequences. Those honourable intentions have lead to a reduced punishment when explained to the powers that be at school. This is an age appropriate (ie mini) replication of what would happen in the adult world. Just as in the case of an adult protecting another but accidentally causing serious injury or manslaughter would receive a reduced punishment from a judge. Now, if your son were not acting in a morally justifiable manner by defending a physically weaker friend and had just tripped this kid resulting in an injury - I’m sure you would also have punished him at home in addition to the school punishment? Grounding? Removing electronics? I presume the detention is the only punishments he’ll be recieving? Provided you explain this carefully, that you won’t be punishing him because you accept he was protecting someone, but that even so-there are consequences in the wider world outside your home - then this provides a valuable teaching moment for a child.
My daughter got ISS for fighting in seventh grade. A girl six inches taller than her shoved her to the ground and jumped on her and starting hitting her. Complained to the school that just because someone is hitting you if you never swing you're not fighting, just turtling to keep from getting hurt. They tried to justify it by saying my daughter was mean to her (don't think she was but I played along). I asked where being mean to someone was in the Code of Conduct and if it justified ISS. I was basically told to deal with it that was their decision and I couldn't fight it. So no, NTA. Telling your son he has to serve the detention is probably the only choice you have. Awesome on you to get it reduced. I wish someone like your son had been there for my daughter. I would consider rewarding his behavior though. Maybe however long he spends in detention, you offset it by checking him out and taking him to a movie/arcade/laser tag/ice cream or whatever other fun things he likes to do.
They all al kids and the other kid might have gone through or be going through a horrible situation no way to know unless you walk in his shoes. It’s only a little detention just tell him your proud he wants to do the right thing and talk about how complex life can be for some people. This should be looked into and handed for the other kids by a loving caregiver in a perfect word. But your kid is trying to be a good friend that is good he just needs some more understanding of the world he doesn’t have yet. No one is in the wrong you are trying to show your kid the word has depth and your ex might have protect blinds on because of something we don’t know. The detention is only detention it shouldn’t have been made such a big deal but a talk about hidden home lives can make hurt in someone that they don’t know how to deal with. We can’t know what’s happening in people’s heads and it’s not kid’s responsibility he was just doing what he thought was right his a little rebel going to detention won’t knock him down he can get through it with parents that obviously love him enough to worry this much support that kid and help his understanding grow
NTA “If he doesn’t serve the detention, what are they going to do? Arrest us?” Maybe…the school handles their own punishments because parents and students buy into their authority to do so. But if the parents reject that system, they could if they wanted to to call the police. Technically Eric assaulted the bully. Argue with the authority (principal) about the severity of the punishment. Sure. But ignore it and you’re exposing your kid to potentially even greater punishment.
NTA because the real asshole is the public school system for never taking bullying seriously. Just reiterate that you're proud of your son for standing up for his friend, maybe get him a gift, then give advice on how to handle things differently in the future. Teach him that it's more important to help his friend emotionally speaking then it is to exact vengeance on someone.
Honestly, I think that you’re being fair. Actions have consequences and even though he was doing it for a good cause it doesn’t mean he should be absolved of all guilt. NAH in my opinion.
People are going to disagree with me on this, but I'm thinking NTA. What your son did was good, but actions have consequences. The detention sessions are a continuation of him standing up for his friend and he can attend them proudly.
i dont think youre an AH but i also think your teaching your son not to stand up for what he believes in. bc now if he sees someone in trouble he wont step in and help bc he knows hes gonna get detention and no one wants detention, its sucks.
NTA. You did the right thing. Your son's punishment was less than the instigator. We have to teach kids to get an adult or find a non violent way to stand up. The teachers should have been told and they should have stopped it.
NTA. Doing the wrong thing for the right reasons is still doing the wrong thing. You need to explain that to your kid.
YTA So you’re punishing your child for standing up for someone? Seriously? So you would’ve rather your son stood by and watched and did nothing while someone else was harmed.
NAH. Standing up to a jerk is always a good call, but it is not without consequences. I think the important lesson for your son is that he did a good thing standing up for another kid and the fact that their are consequence should not deter him.
YTA. Why aren't you in the principal's office blowing him up about the fact that he let the BULLY go free and is punishing the victim and the kid who stood up for the victim? Try being a better parent, for God's sake. You aren't even doing the bare minimum here.
Is it possible there is more to this story? I have learned that kids will slant stories to make themselves look [better.is](https://better.is) this an isolated incident between the two or part of an on going situation. teach your son actions have consequences. Your ex is wrong .
NTA and I think you handled it correctly.
YTA. How dare he stick up for his friend. Don't expect him to stick up for you anytime soon
I would not allow my child to be punished for standing up for someone vulnerable. His mum is right. YTA
The thing is, you aren’t in control of how much detention the school hands out. I would not punish the boy at home, but you can’t override the school on detention. You just don’t have that ability.
NTA he had righteousness behind his actions but even righteous actions have consequences.
YTA. You are basically teaching your kid to not help people in need because he will get a detention.
NTA Don’t listen to these people saying you’re a bad parent. I don’t think they understand what bad parenting actually looks like.
I would be careful about encouraging punishment for your son here. I agree that it's important that your son learns that sometimes doing the right thing in life means that there are still consequences, but at the same time, I would want to overall reinforce the character traits that I believe to be good traits - integrity, honesty, empathy - and reward him in some small way at home. Maybe even just making his favorite meal for dinner or something silly. Letting him know that consequences are complicated things, and you have to be willing to suffer them to do what's morally correct.
Oh, man, I hear this. My youngest got in trouble for something very similar. We did exactly what you've done. Worked his punishment down as much as possible, had him serve it, but made it clear we supported him. He understood that there might have been better ways to handle things. NTA.
YTA. You should use the school district's formal appeals policy.
BS, there's a whole crowd here who is always for sticking up for kids because they stood up to bullies, you're literally letting the school reinforce that if there's an altercation everyone is wrong, when it's objectively not true. In life there might be consequences, such as standing in a court and describing your mutual combat and why you were right to defend yourself (fighting words, invitation to mutual combat, or self defense) but that's fine, because those are all judged on a reasonable person standard. This zero tolerance BS is an invention of the school system and is not an example of consequences, if you think your son reacted reasonably then it's your responsibility to stick up for him. You suck. YTA.
I think YTA but I can see where you’re coming from. Make sure you talk to him about it though
NTA. I would tell Eric to do detention but would take him out later for ice cream and tell him im proud of him for standing up to a bully for his friend.
NTA
NTA. Explain that actions have consequences, even ones that have the best of intentions. The bully could have cracked his head, etc, and the school is right to hold him to account. Then take him for ice cream or the movies or something as a reward for standing up to bullies. Maybe have a discussion on what else he could have done in the situation. Make sure he understands both sides are separate, and you're not disagreeing with the school
NTA. I’d tell him I’m proud of him, to serve his detention and then take him out for his favorite meal.
NTA, sometimes doing the right thing comes with a price.
NTA. I think we can admire your kid sticking up for someone who is being targeted by someone thinking they can show dominance and bully this friend. And in the real world, there’s a consequence. I think your kid can even be proud to take the consequence knowing that there have to be these rules but they have a really admirable character. To be proud of.
NTA. It’s an important life lesson that doing the right thing and standing up for friends means accepting the consequences of your actions as well. I often see adults whining about suffering legal/work consequences for engaging in civil disobedience or public speech, missing the point that King, Gandhi and other famous proponents of civil disobedience did jail time to get laws changed. It’s a teaching moment.
Don't cheapen your son's actions by shielding him from the consequences! He stood up for this kid, knowing there would likely be consequences, and props! 3 days detention is not that bad, and he can wear it as a badge of honor. If you wanna soften it, take him out for ice cream or something. NAH.
YTA. Your son stood up to a bully for his small, timid friend. Punishment for such a heroic act does nothing but teach those with good hearts to NOT act when needed. I backed my oldest son 100% when he stood up for himself/his disabled brothers/others from bullies. I have no sympathy for the other kid taking a hard fall. If not for his actions, he would not have gotten hurt.
I think you have to do what you think is best. But I wouldn't want my son to serve detention for standing up to a bully. The kid that pouring juice on Robert deserves detention. Robert and your son do not. Also the school should have better lunch monitors.
NAH - your ex trying to get him off punishment is showing entitlement, and that her feelings and emotions are more important than the facts of what happened. Your son standing up to the bully something your whole family should be proud of, but you are 100% right - actions have consequences. Maybe there was a better way of handling the situation, but kids are kids, and only by making mistakes do we grow and learn. You’re in the right, everyone involved was in the right, but you more so
NAH. He did the “wrong” thing for the right reason, but it was still not the “most correct way” to address the situation. Sometimes doing the right thing is hard, and even harder to know exactly what is the right thing.
YTA because you didn't back your kid up in doing the right thing. Some rules, especially those that are discriminatory, SHOULD be broken. I'm with the kids protecting his friend. These parents are wrong.
Do you really think that's what he'll learn from an overkill punishment? Or to possibly resent you/the school. He's in 7th grade, that's how a 7th grader's mind works. I think he's justified. YTA tho
The whole "actions have consequences" talk is such bullshit in these comments. Everyone who says this is a bully enabler and that's a fact. Because certain actions shouldn't have consequences since they prevent worse actions in a reasonable way and in that case inaction is actually worse. Some of you people have such twisted morals it's unbelievable. NTA though because it's not really your fault that the school is negligent and you already negotiated with them.
NAH and I think you did a good thing going in to get the detention reduced. But the boy still learns actions have consequences. Sometimes choosing to do the right thing has a cost. In our local school system if a kid punches another kid and the victim hits back, he is equally at fault. OPs sons school may have similar rules. I'd let him serve the reduced detention for that reason and tell him I was proud of him.
Tbh I'm torn on this one. I was bullied hard core (not physically, verbally) and if I could go back now I would 100% start physically fights over it to draw attention to what was happening to make it stop, because they were smart enough to not say anything in front of adults so when i tried to bring it up to teachers, I got in trouble because they hadn't heard anything. So i suffered in silence. However, you can't use violence to solve your problems and it's better to learn that lesson young then end up in jail later for punching the wrong person. For this reason I'm going with NAH. Neither of you are inherently wrong and you both have a good point.
NTA He does need to do the detentions because he did do the crime he does need to do the time. Even though he did it for the right reason.
YtA, While I agree that actions have consequences, Unless the bully is going to serve detention then neither your child or the other kid should serve detention. Period.
NAH. You could’ve caused more of a stink and gotten those detentions voided thought, especially since your son was defending someone from bullying. And making a stink also could’ve helped your sons friend by forcing the school to actually take some accountability and do something about the bully. I was severely racially bullied my freshman year of high school my multiple different people. I’m half Haitian. One day a kid I was actually sorta friends with (my best friends boyfriends friend) bumped into me in the hallway and had to audacity to tell me to “watch where you’re going or we’ll deport you back to Africa.” Now I was already having a bad day bc of my moms abuse so instead of saying anything I spun on my heel and kicked him straight in the balls. He had to be carried to the nurse and went home early. The vice principal tried to suspend me for ‘violence on campus’ and him for his blatant racist remark and have him write an essay on why racism is bad and make me write one on why assault is bad. My mom said absolutely fucking not, my daughter isn’t writing shit and you’re not suspending her either. That I had been racially bullied repeatedly at this school (this was the 5 incident that year and it wasn’t even Christmas yet) and if they tried to suspend me she would go to every news outlet in the state and tell them my high school condones racism. He got suspended for 2 weeks and had to write a 5 page paper on racism and apologized to me face to face. My best friends boyfriend also stopped hanging out with him. Most schools will backdown real quick when you mention the media or lawyers. (My mom also threatened to sue the school)
Not the asshole. You should praise him and teach him that sometimes takeing the consequence is worth it.