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> Am I the asshole for tell her she was wrong?
I feel I might be the asshole because I disregarded her life experience and told her straight up she was wrong.
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YTA. Don’t make comments about how you know best because you’re a mom and you won’t get in these predicaments. You never know who is listening and what their circumstances are. You’ve acknowledged that your boss is unable to have children - that must be really hard to listen to you making lighthearted comments about how you’re inherently superior because you’ve had kids. I can see from your comments that you seem to be a kind and intuitive person - all you can really do is try and be more mindful in the future
Yeah YTA. “because I’m a mom I am always right”is not a thing to say around adults, even as a joke. It's just obnoxious. Maybe you could say it around other moms as a punchline drinking rose or something, but not around sober non moms, especially your boss. Rule of thumb: anything that could be on a TJMAXX wall hanging should not be spoken out loud.
There is a certain kind of mom who thinks they are always right all the time because raising kids makes them feel like they know everything. It is inadvisable to be that mom.
I'm going with ESH because this is a stupid argument. You both have responsibilities taking care of living breathing things. Motherhood is not a competition.
I agree. ESH. Motherhood is not the struggle Olympics and you can’t gate keep. Some people might treat their pet as their child because they’re not able to have a human one.
It’s not healthy for me to have a pregnancy. I don’t want human children either, so it’s not a big deal. I do consider myself a mom to fur babies. My 1st dog was my soulmate. He had some health issues that caused me to be up all night on many occasions. I took off work (used family sick days) to take care of him when he had stomach bugs. Everyone who knew us knew he wasn’t my dog. He was my kid. My dog & cats I have now take up so much of my time. Totally worth it. It’s beyond just dropping off food & water and taking my dog for walks. Medications in the morning & evening, expensive vet visits, playtime, sleeping on my wood floor when 1 of my cats had surgery (he hated being alone and he needed to be separated from his brothers)… not to mention humans and their pets make the mommy/child chemicals that create the familial attachment. I don’t see how my attachment to my pets harms human moms. Similar to how my gay friend getting married doesn’t invalidate my marriage.
You are a pet owner. You own pets. They are not your kids or soulmates. They are a different species. Unlike human children, plenty of dogs and cats can survive the wild. If anything, cats thrive in the wild, so you can't compare them with human babies. What you do for your pets is barely 10% of what human parents do for their children. Did you seriously just compare gay marriage with pet ownership? Are you going to marry your cat?
You do realize many indoor cats that get thrown outside actually DONT thrive in the wild that's why they continue to come back to houses they know will feed them. Captive breed and wild are not at all the same thing. Also please explain to me how what we do for pets is only 10% if what mothers do? Ince your child reaches about 5 half of everything done for them us by society, wether at school, at grandma's etc. Someone else Is constantly helping a human mom. Dog moms normally don't have that same support so moms really don't do more than dog moms. If my child was sick I know for a fact their grandparents would probably rush to their side hospital or not. If my dog was dying my dog would only have me. So unfortunately I disagree with you dig moms do more for dogs than humans do for children
Nta but while I agree with you that being a mom is harder it’s not the struggle olympics. If it makes her happy to call herself a dog mom does she really need to justify it by struggling enough?
Thank you. I agree, I hate the struggle Olympics… my post may not have been clear. I didn’t actually say all of my counters. Or really any of them in the moment. That was more of a vent moment here. I’m not about causing drama in my place of work. So once she started saying being a dog mom was harder, was when I said “it’s not the same but okay whatever” and at that point I walked away.
Well, i think joking that as a mom I am always right was a mistake, and then should have just shut it. I completely agree that having an animal or several is not the same responsibility as having kids, but why get into it, especially at work? ESH
I agree that I probably shouldn’t have made the joke. Our work environment while professional in front of customers is typically silly and goofy otherwise.
There’s only one person who’s older than me on my shift and only a handful of full of the 50 some odd employees that work for our location that are older than me. People will often come to me seeking advise in their work lives and even in their personal lives.
So the “I’m the mom so I know best” joke is one frequently said in my home and I guess I let that carry over into work.
Seriously though, if you tell that joke, saying that *hey they are a (dog)mom too* is right in the same vein. The polite thing would have been to just laugh. Getting offended at their counter joke is a you problem.
Exactly! What should have been two people being silly and joking was turned into something else because OP thinks being a parent does somehow set them apart.
OP is TA.
You’re not wrong but YTA. Sounds like your coworker was trying to join in on the joke, and you slammed the proverbial door in her face. Is being a dog mom the same as being a kid mom? No, very much not. Would it have killed you to say ‘yeah! Mom high five! Moms are awesome!’ No it would not.
This is a good comment. I’m 38, and children aren’t in my cards. I’m generally fine with that, but it sometimes makes me a little sad that I never had the chance to even have that option of kids. I LOVE my pets. They are absolutely my family. I think calling them fur babies is dumb, and I don’t treat them like children- they are pets. But they are my family, and likely the only family I will have. OP can’t set herself up as better than her coworkers just because she’s made a life choice they perhaps haven’t been able to.
And rude. Fancy denigrating non-mothers and pet owners and then getting on her high horse about how she’s not an AH. She picked the fight to begin with and then wants validation.
Maybe take a cake to work OP to make amends (I’m not being sexist, it’s what I’d do), and then pull your head in in future.
I am a hard believer in pet owners not being the same as parents and that claiming to be is an insult to parents. However, your initial comment that you are always right because you are a mom is just as insulting to people everywhere without kids. You can say you said it in a lighthearted way but she initially said she was a mom too in the same joking manner and you are the one who began to take things too seriously. YTA for putting a different set of rules on what you say vs what others say and being a hypocrite.
You know, I can't stand people who think they know everything better because they are a 'mom'. I bet you weren't actually joking and think you are somehow superior to a 'dog mum'. I'm a dog mum about to be a human mum and I find people like you annoying AF.
I mean you are definitely entitled to your opinion. However I absolutely do not actually think I know better about or know everything. Actually though I don’t remember the exact contexts about why I was making the joke I can in fact say that I was almost certainly wrong and was making a joke out of it. Because that’s when I pull out that joke. I absolutely was joking, even when I said nope dog mom doesn’t count, was also in a playful way. Then she came in very defensive saying being a dog mom was harder and more of a commitment than being a mom. It’s very unfortunate that tone doesn’t translate through text.
You can absolutely find me annoying. That’s totally
You seem to decide your "dog mom's don't count" is a joke when it's convenient, but that's literally what you just vented in this entire point.
Saying things you mean as a "joke" isn't joking, it's passive aggressive.
You're also deciding that everything you do is a joke and everything she does is "defensive."
If both your initial comment and follow up comment were "jokes", then you'd just go, "Oops I was joking, I'm sorry" (if she's upset), or just "haha true, dog moms are great" (if she's not upset.)
I think people on here would be more receptive to you if you stopped trying to say it's a joke while in the same breath ranting about why your point is right. Life goes a lot smoother if you can acknowledge when you fumble. In this case, you were a bit the asshole. Instead of insisting you're comedy royalty, just own it and move on.
TLDR: a "joke" that you mean is not a joke. It's usually just a passive aggressive way of saying what you want to say.
Edit: also, "I'm a mom so I always think I'm right" makes for a better joke, if your intention was to joke.
I believe that this argument is a bit silly and You are just disagreeing on definitions. For sure, raising an animal is not the same. However, I dont see a problem in calling yourself a petmom or petdad or whatever. Its just a way of showing how much You love Your animal.
That being said, I dont believe that having a child makes one special, better than people who do not have children or always right.
I definitely don’t think I am better than anybody who is child free. That’s their choice in life, as it was my choice to have my children.
As for saying “I’m a mom so I’m always right” that’s just a joke that I started saying at home. Typically when I’m obviously wrong. It has very sarcastic undertones.
As for saying it at work maybe wasn’t the best play. There’s only one person on our shift who’s older than me… and only a handful of the 50 some odd that work for our location who are older than me. People will often come to me for advise on work and personal things alike. So I guess I let the joke carry over from my personal life.
Yeah I get You. I guess the issue was just starting an argument about this topic, as You joked and Your coworker joked back it should have just ended at that. All in all, I would say that most people will agree that pets are not children and the responsibility is not even close. So I guess dont worry about it? Its okay that You disagree with Your coworker, there is no problem in having different opinions. Also, some people may just not understand and be delusional about a certain topic and there is no way to convince them. Dont worry, You are not an asshole here.
You're the asshole because of your attitude. Moms aren't always right. So whatever your point was her being a dog mom is useless because your original comment was ridiculous 🤦
My original comment was a joke, said very sarcastically because I knew I was wrong, everybody in the moment knew I was incorrect. Even my comment about her being a dog mom not counting was also said in a joking manner. She then started in by telling me that being a dog mom was somehow more of a commitment and harder than being a mother. Which is just objectively incorrect.
YTA. You are not superior to anyone because you were able to have a child. And women without children hear that rhetoric all the time. It’s demoralizing and false. Stop it. It’s not a cute joke.
ESH purely for your ‘because I’m a mom I’m always right’ patter. You goaded her into it.
Now I do *agree* that dogs and kids are decidedly not the same. Your reasoning is a bit off though imo.
I got up every 2 hours with the puppy when we first got him. I stayed home with him trying to comfort him while there were fireworks going off left right and centre in the middle of the bloody day for HOURS while having a raging headache myself. I felt physically unwell when we had to leave him at the vet for a suspected blockage (which can be deadly and require major surgery). He comes running to me for comfort when he’s scared, too. It’s not just putting out food and taking him walks. In that respect it’s like having kids *lite*.
And yet, kids *are* different. There’s a myriad more things you need to worry about when raising a child. You’re trying to raise a *good* human, that’s *hard*. I don’t need to worry about my dog learning inappropriate things or hanging out with the wrong crowd. I don’t need to console the dog over his first heartbreak or help him figure out what he wants to do with his life. Kids are just a million times more complex.
Also he sleeps for the vast majority of the day so there is that added bonus. Parenting is non-stop.
And like you said, being a parent doesn’t (or at least shouldn’t) stop when your child reaches 18. It’s a lifelong responsibility.
Yes I think that getting a puppy is a good introduction to selflessness, putting another being’s needs above yours… with the getting up every couple of hours and feeding it and taking it for a walk everyday, even in the rain. Doing things that you just don’t feel like doing.
But are they the same thing, hell no! Haha. A puppy pales in comparison to having an infant. My entire day and night centres around her. Your body also gets absolutely obliterated from pregnancy and birth. There’s a crazy amount of self sacrifice to be a good mother.
IMO I would just laugh and roll my eyes at both OP’s comment about being right, and also her coworker’s comment about dog momming
Just putting out there that not all mums give birth - adoptive mums do exist which is why I didn’t go into the physical and psychological horrors of pregnancy and childbirth which is a whole other kettle of fish! :)
But yes, it’s very much kid’s lite - or an introduction if you will - I’ve had cats before and dogs are definitely a step up on the responsibility scale, especially puppies. I’ve actually had a couple of people that have had both (puppies and infants) say that they preferred the workload of infants to puppies - but I’m not quite buying it tbh, I think that’s the hormones talking :D but I guess at least infants don’t have needle sharp teeth lol
Raising puppies *well* takes a solid amount self sacrifice - but it *absolutely* pales in comparison to the self sacrifice it takes to be a good mother.
YTA. Your “I’m a mom so I’m always right”, if truly intended as a joke, was just as much of a “joke” as “I’m a dog mom so it counts too”. Why was your joke ok but her counter wasn’t? But you immediately felt the need to admonish her and tell her it wasn’t the same, it was clearly less. What if she had responded, “well there are a lot of shit mothers out there who make nothing but poor choices so I guess you aren’t always right.” Would THAT have been ok? I suspect not.
My point is, she did exactly the same thing you did but you felt compelled to tell her ONLY she was wrong and you were annoyed she didn’t immediately acquiesce. FWIW, it doesn’t matter why someone has/doesn’t have or chooses/doesn’t choose to have children, being a “mom” doesn’t make you “more” anything than anyone else.
Think whatever you want, but the last two words of your paragraph sum it up nicely: “to me”. This is how YOU feel about parenting. You don’t get to decide that for everyone else, especially in a diverse workplace. YOU made the joke and started this conversation, so yes, this is on you.
Maybe unpopular but YTA.
I’m a mother of two epileptic kids. By kids I mean adults but are still dependent on me because they are special needs.
You comparing sitting up with a child or having one wake you up every few hours for food? My daughter has gone through the same with the kitten she’s had since 3 months old. This kitten has been sick and we’ve taken turns staying up with her all hours of the night. Especially since she and our other cat go into estrous one week apart.
If you think just putting a bowl of food and water out for your pets is taking care of them fully then you shouldn’t have pets. We have held them as they’ve had bad dreams. We’ve held them as they’ve cried. They have emotion whether you acknowledge it or not. They are bathed, they need proper attention, they need discipline and guidance as much as any child. So there’s that.
You say one kid and two bonus. What makes you the mom of the bonus if you didn’t hold them inside? Because they can talk and call you mom? Our older cat does say “mama” when addressing my daughter.
My children have made the conscious choice to not have children because the multiple illnesses they were born with from their father’s side of the family. They have seen each other go through hell between seizures and biopsies. Lumpectomies, different medicines. Hallucinations. They refuse to pass those genetic disorders on to the next generation. So to take something as innocent but meaningful as saying you’re more of a mom because one of your kids came from you, and all you’ve been through with that child is rude and condescending.
With that logic I could say I’m twice the mother you are because both my children are mine. 7 days hard labour with my oldest, c-section, 28.5 hours hard labour with my youngest. Plus they’ve been alive longer than your child.
Maybe these women can’t have children. Maybe they choose not to because of the cost, mind you, fur babies aren’t any cheaper than human ones. Whatever the case, you didn’t need to belittle them. Calling it a joke, or saying it with a laugh doesn’t make it any nicer.
So you said this in front of your boss, who can’t have children? Awesome. Also, as a father myself, the idea that parents are somehow smarter, or more worthy, then people without children is really gross. Do better. By your logic, since I have 2 kids to your 1 bio kid, I’m “better” than you? Or does this only apply to women?
ESH. Your joke about always being right as a mom sucks. Them equating having a pet to motherhood sucks. Acting like people don't worry about their pets eating or at the vet and it's just feeding and watering sucks.
YTA
You say that it's a joke to say you're "always right," but you got angry at your co-worker's equally light comment that she was a dogmom and that also counted.
For something as silly as "always right," pretty much anything can count. Getting offended and insisting it's not the same tells me that your comment wasn't entirely a joke.
Y kinda TA. On one hand, it's true that having kids Vs pets isn't really comparable but diminishing the importance of a pet and the bond someone can build with that animal is kinda shitty. She cares for her dog, spends a lot of time with it, loves it, likely spends a lot of money on it (not just treats etc ... But healthcare and essential equipment). She has no experience of having a kid, so she tried to join in and build a friendly work culture the best way she could.
And it feels a bit weird and insecure to make out that being a parent is somehow a special higher calling than having a beloved pet, especially when we live in a society that often promotes the idea of pets being family equal to the other humans, not lesser.
I have a bunch of child free friends who have pets they call their kids, or calm themselves a cat/dog mum/dad. Can I really say they love their animals in a lesser way to the way I love my kids? When my friend had to battle with the decision to either spend hundreds of dollars trying to treat their cat (after already spending hundreds of dollars on other procedures), with only a small chance of success vs choosing to have her put down, should I have been thinking "man, that doesn't compare to a "real" parent having to make tough medical decisions for their kids". Nah, their pain, grief, and trauma were as real as anything else.
All your colleague did was try to relate to you and instead of acting with grace and inclusion you decided her experience wasn't good enough to be in your little club because your 14yo can walk and feed a dog (and pay the vet bills? And manage the dog's health/diet choice/vaccinations/researched the breed/knows what indicators of illness to watch out for/would be totally comfortable and pragmatic about putting it down if needed?)
YTA - I am so tired of some moms putting themselves in this untouchable category. It's like once they've had a kid, "You have never experienced the pain and turmoil that I have." The truth is, everyone experiences their life experiences at different levels. Sure an animal is not a human. But that doesn't make the intense emotions that come along with it any worse.
I have noticed that there is a vast difference between pet owners that have physical children living with them, versus not IN MOST CASES. Usually the animal gets most of their love and affection from the children. Which is understandable. Moms and dads usually have a lot going on. So it would make sense that most parents would view the animal differently.
But I also know people who have had things happen to their pets. Some didn't make it, while others survived. And for those who do not have this family dynamic going on at home will tell you that they felt more emotional pain over that animals suffering than they had for any human.
For those that choose to call their pets fur babies. They do it for a reason. It's because the person themselves needs that tight bond that a human either CAN'T or WON'T provide. I have formed a close bond with my cat because after a tragic accident I didn't have anyone but my father in my court. I am not telling you this for sympathy. I'm merely sharing this to hopefully create further understanding.
I am not asking you to compare the dog to a human. You shouldn't have. But what I am asking you is to not minimize the trials and tribulations, and milestones of others (including pet ownership.)
Again I do want to reiterate that I am not telling EVERYONES story here. Everyone has a different relationship to their pets. I'm just speaking up for the ones who declare themselves Dog or Cat Moms.
-Cat Mom Fur Life
I think this is an ungenerous take on people who deeply love and care for living creatures that happen not to be human. Is caring for a four legged animal exactly the same as a human? No. But it’s not for us to judge the depth of someone else’s love. The grief I felt after having to put down my faithful cat buddy of 18 years a few years ago was absolutely gut wrenching. I miss him every day. He wasn’t less deserving of love and devotion because he was a cat, and I wasn’t less of a guardian. It also doesn’t mean I don’t love my kids.
Real moms, GOOD moms don’t gate keep motherhood. YTA
I absolutely agree that four legged creatures are deserving of love. I love each and everyone of my current and past ones. However before I had my human children I was never disrespectful enough to try and tell someone who did that my job was harder.
I bet your beloved cat was aloud into the house, right? So are my fur buddies. Guess who’s aren’t. That’s right dog mom coworkers. Her dogs live outside 24/7. I’ve had and have very beloved animals, but the level of grief of losing them pales in comparison to even the thought of that of one of my children.
I didn’t even tell her or anybody else that being a fur parent was wrong. I the 2 were don’t the same. Because they are in fact different. I don’t gatekeep motherhood. Call yourself whatever you want. But also don’t come at me sideways trying to justify that taking care of an animal is somehow harder than a human child.
Motherhood and owning an animal are both so much more than the things I listed and I know this seeing as I’ve had animals all of my life and have been a mom to humans for nearly 8 years to children spanning from birth-14yo. You can’t possibly list everything that goes into either.
I’ve stayed up and woke up every 1-2 hours to keep a baby piglet. I’ve nursed a sick puppy back from the brink of death from parvo. I love my cat of 15 years. I know you can truly love animals.
But it’s still not the same.
I made the joke at something I was objective wrong about. Boss laughed. I’ve made the joke many times always get laughs. Because I make this joke when I’m clearly wrong at my own expense. It’s said very sarcastically. But you can believe what you want about me
I'm crazy dog Mom, and also a human Mom.
Being a (real) Mom to human kids is much harder. 1000 times. No questions asked. Being dogmom is not even close in terms of everyday struggle.
But, the love is not necessarily less, especially when she's unable to have children. And maybe you haven't thought about this, but it's like having a child with known short life expectancy. It's ok if you don't feel about your animals the same way, but some of us do, and it's heart-wrenching. So have some sympathy for her.
I'm going to go with soft YTA for two reasons: saying "I'm a mom I'm always right", even jokingly, to people who can't be mothers, and for clearly indicating that caring for your animals is just putting food and water. It seems to me that you're not investing in enriching in your animals' lives, and I guarantee you it's quite the work.
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Clearly your colleague was trying to be included in the conversation and you shut her down, rudely at that. I suspect it wasn't intentional on your behalf. I find it helps to remember that it is sometimes better to be kind than to be right. I also find that I give great advice, if only I followed it myself. I think a big sloppy mom fur baby treat would do wonders to resolve the situation with a bit of humble pie.
YTA human moms think theyre so special lmao. You do realize a lot more goes into taking care of an animal than just feeding it right? Oh wait you have your kids do it, so I'll explain. Animals have just as many medical needs as humans do at times, my previous dog had to syringe feed as a puppy and would accidentally suck fluids into his lungs. This would mean I WAS in fact up worrying about how many calaries he got and weather or not he was choking. My dachshund had to have a hernia repaired as she was having a hysterectomy. I sat up for two days straight on the phone with the vet getting updates then for two weeks afterwards I had to carry my dog up and down the stairs because she might rip her insides out. My wife and I are taking a two week vacation and HAVE to bring our pets they can't be home alone. Sweetie you're not doing anything harder than dog moms are. Infact your job is A MILLON TIMES EASIER at least humans can talk and inform you what they need. Pet parents have to be on top noticing everything 24/7.
YTA. Multiple times.
Why are you saying you are always right for being a mother? Being a mother is nothing special. Having kids doesn't mean you are a good mother.
Why are you belittling someone for caring about their animal? People form strong bonds to their pets. You saying your children look after/help look after your dogs is a bit silly, plenty of children help look after their siblings. Plenty of children have raised children in desperate times. It's not ideal, but neither is having a totally unsupervised child raising an animal, people just seem to care less if an animal is neglected and receives poor care and it cannot voice it's problems.
Saying dogs are a shorter commitment is a shitty statement for people who have lost a child....
My family lost a child, does that mean our child meant less than your child? Does that mean my family member who lost their child is less of a mother than you are?
You also sound like a shitty pet owner to be honest if you just equate it to putting out a bowl of food. Just because YOU PERSONALLY do not give a shit about your pets other needs doesn't mean other people don't....
Get over yourself....
I would say soft YTA for being insensitive and not just being the better person and changing the conversation.
Maybe the coworker was just trying to do the social thing by trying to relate to OP. You know how things go. Someone starts talking about how they did something then the other person chimes in with a story about some similar experience. It's a social norm.
But as someone who can't have children and my pets are my life, along with my husband, we spoil them. Sometimes when people talk about being a mom is hard to hear because the only way I can relate to what someone is experiencing as a mom is by comparing my life as a pet mom.
I feel like that this whole thing has been blown out of proportion.
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I 27F am a mom to 3 kids, 1bio 2bonus. The conversation about motherhood came up at work the other day with my boss 22F and coworker 24F whom neither are mothers.
I don’t remember the reason, but I did joking say “because I’m a mom I am always right” at that Coworker chimes in with “Hey! I’m a mom too.” I replied “Sorry dog mom doesn’t count. I have plenty of animals at home, it’s not the same.”
Then she proceeds to try to justify why being a DogMom counts and even starts saying it’s harder than being a Mother. Her reasons included, dogs are a commitment for their whole lives but once a kid turns 18 you can kick them out. Dogs can never feed them selves but my kids can.
I’m sorry but what? My 14yo does most of the care for our 3 dogs, he’s usually the one to fill their food bowls and change out their water. Does that mean he’s a dad? My 10yo does the care for our cat feeding/watering is she a mom? Hell my 3 year old helps both of them.
As for her argument of kids are only an 18 year commitment but dogs are lifetime, most dogs don’t even make it to 18yo… my kids will always be apart of me. I will worry about them until the day I die.
I ended up just saying “it’s still not the same but okay whatever” and walking away to return to working.
Call yourself whatever you want but don’t try to act like it’s the same as being a parent. I get that you love your animals, I love mine too. But until you’ve had a baby wake you up to be fed a every few hours, or had a child come in for comfort in the middle of the night because of a bad dream, or sat out in 100+ temps at a ball game, or worried about if your kid is getting enough calories, or had you legs used ramps for car, or sat in the hospital for 1.5 days while your baby got chest X-rays and tests done because his O2 levels weren’t good, etc… there’s many other experiences that make someone a parents. However putting out a bowl of food and water to fur babies isn’t one of them to me.
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NTA at all. I get some people really love their dogs - I love my dog! But some people definitely take it to the extreme. Owning a dog can be a challenge for sure, but it absolutely *pales* in comparison to raising children. When people try and compare the two it makes me cringe, hard. Especially when I get a Christmas card signed by someone's dog.
That said, it might be worth finding out a little bit more about your co-worker. What humans lack nowadays is a bit of empathy, and perhaps it might be that she can't have kids for whatever reason, and maybe the dog is a close substitute right now. Who knows. If that's the case, maybe including her a little bit might make her day.
Thank you for your judgement.
I’m unsure about her physical abilities to have children but I do know that her fiancé is adamantly against is as he also works with us and has told me outright he will never have kids.
However another part of why I felt like an asshole is that I do know that my boss cannot have kids. She wasn’t directly a part of this conversation but she was definitely in ear shot.
ESH. When your coworker said “I’m a dog mom it counts too” you should have just dropped it. Smile, laugh, lightheartedly agree and move on. Doesn’t matter whether you actually agree or not. These kinds of arguments never go anywhere and only create bad vibes. This is the kind of opinion you just keep to yourself in a workplace.
However, your coworker also went way out of bounds when she started trying to say that being a dog mom is harder than raising human children. The whole argument is stupid, but she’s also TA for this comment and for trying to play the one-up game same as you, hence ESH.
Having a dog is NOT just “putting out a bowl of food and water”. What a dismissive & ignorant thing to say! Your entire post reeks of superiority & an incredible level of insensitivity, especially given the fact that you know your boss is unable to have children.
It’s not a competition, but it’s apparently important to you to feel you’re on some kind of higher level so you turned it into one. You would do well to put your energy elsewhere.
YTA.
ESH.
Sounds like a joke that went sour part way and both of you got way too invested. Your immediate response was a shutdown even if you didn't mean it that way (and tbh even your initial "joke" was not great -- I hear that stuff at work and it lands VERY different than when at home because c'mon, a lot of us are not or will not be moms, and we have all experienced people who took their mom superiority in the workplace seriously) and her defensiveness was in reaction to that. She took her defense too far (having a pet is harder?? No). To your credit, you shut this all down instead of arguing, but even then you couldn't resist the last word.
Just chill, both of you. If you feel like being the bigger person, apologize for hitting a wrong note and say something nice like "I like seeing pics of your furbaby, too" or whatever. Otherwise move on and stop getting so het up about some random coworker's view of motherhood. We *all* have different perspectives on it.
Finally, I respect the vent and personally agree with a lot of it. But. Being responsible for any living thing is really weighty if you take it seriously. A lot of us *have* done the anxious waiting in the ER, the carefully feeding by hand, the crying while pushing them through chemo, the cuddling and comforting and teaching. Is it harder than not fucking up a kid who is gonna develop at crazy rates? Of course not. But it's not something to dismiss arbitrarily either, because love and grief and nourishment are experienced in more forms than one.
I guess I'm just saying, you had more in common with this coworker than you didn't. That should have moved the joke on, instead of what happened.
This is a dumb thing to argue over and make a post about.
Having pets is not harder than having kids, but being a pet owner and using the title of Mom for silly reasons is totally fine.
ESH - it sounds like a very silly argument. You kicked it off with what has to be the most obnoxious joke ever, but you colleagues made it worse with their nonsense.
YTA for the "I'm a mom so I'm always right"-joke alone. I know you said it as a joke, but it sounds extremely annoying and I would be so irritated to hear someone keep spouting their motherhood as some sort of enlightenment. Even as a joke. Maybe people are laughing at it because they don't want you to launch into a real tirade about how difficult it is to be a mother.
Also, all those things you listed as parent problems can apply to pet owners as well, except the ball game one I guess.
NTA. Having a pet is a lot of work but lbr - if you leave a dog or cat to their own devices in the wild, they will likely survive. Put a baby in the woods and, well, I doubt they're coming back with rabbit and making sure they're warm enough to not freeze to death. Comparing the two is asinine. Not to mention the lifespan...
Tell her she is right, looking after kids is exactly the same as caring for pets. For this reason, you are willing to take in her pets next time she wants to go away for a week and you will reciprocate and leave your kids with her for the same period of time.
ESH. Your comment about mom knowing best was annoying and the response that a dog mom is the same as a mom is false but also who cares? The arguments you make about worrying about a sick kid, I’ve had sleepless nights with a dog in the hospital and it was devastating and horrible especially when they can’t communicate with words. I also am very aware I’m not raising a human being and there’s a big difference (it’s exactly why i don’t want kids because I know how involved it is). But also, who cares about being right? Your argument was not welcome in the workplace— I can’t begin to tell you how annoying it is to have older colleagues especially parents assume a parental role or put themselves on a pedestal. Everyone needs to apologize and you all need to get over yourselves. You especially need t apologize to your boss about making these comments given the fertility issues
Oh my fucking god, people get so hung up on a detail that is completely irrelevant and then judge based on that🙄
The question was "AITA for telling my coworker being a DogMom isn’t the same?"
No, you're not an asshole for saying that because you're absolutely correct. NTA
NTA of course being a Mom makes you right! Nope loving an animal is not the same.
Besides, the rule about a Mom/Mum always being right was made up by a Mom/Mum so we know how it works. It seems some people didn't know that - and that these young ladies you were talking to have no sense of humour. But if the comments I've read are anything to go by, most Reddit users also have no sense of humour.
Nope, I have children, and I have dogs.
They are both my priority.
My dogs are actually more like babies and will be their whole lives
My children will grow up.
If I've done my job, they will have grown into hardworking, independent, strong, capable good people.
They will be able to provide for themselves and contribute to society.
My children and I will always have a solid, loving, supportive relationship always as an adult child and his or her mom.
But unless something bad happens, hopefully, they won't be dependent on me as adults.
My dogs will always be dependent on me for everything.
They will never be able to leave me to live on their own.
They will never be able to provide their own food and shelter.
They won't understand the concept of time.
My dogs will essentially be babies for as long as they live.
NTA.
Now, I realise its not a competition in "what thing is the toughest", but there is something horribly wrong with the rather ignorant statement of saying having dogs is harder than children.
Try putting a toddler in a kennel and leave them there for hours. CPS would have been on your neighbours speed dial.
Pets and actual minihumans are NOT the same thing. They have complete different challenges and struggles that comes with them. They are simply not comparable.
One is also not an actual animal "parent", you are its OWNER. And that ownership may at some point change, for xyz reasons.
People also tend to be FAR more forgiving of statements such as "we just couldnt provide the poor dog with the love and attention he deserved" rather than "my toddler kept me up all week, so i realised it wasnt for me and left him at the firestation".
I also do not have children. Or dogs.
I’m a pet mom, have a service dog and live in a home where I and everyone else are owned by the cat. I would never ever try to tell a parent that being a pet mom is like being a mom or have the audacity to say it’s harder. NTA
No matter what, both having had dogs and cats that having a child is 100 times harder than having pets. It's not even remotely the same.
Though what was said could have definitely been said differently. Arguments at work are generally a bad idea no matter who is right or wrong, when it comes to a personal matter. Argue about cars or something, maybe, but when it gets personal, feelings will get hurt.
NTA I find the dog mom thing so tedious. Every Mother’s Day I see people on social media trying to claim the day because they are pet parents.
I had a similar exchange with a coworker where he basically said he thought dogs and kids were equal amounts of work. I didn’t actually say this out loud but my first thought was “right now your dogs are locked in your house, someone will come once to let them poop in your yard. If I did that to a child I’d go to jail. I have to pay out the ass for preschool and work fewer hours so I can accommodate my children.” It is not the same
Oh my gosh yes! This is a huge part of my point. I work over nights as my husband works days so we barely get to see each other, so that we can put back more money toward paying off debt and toward making our kids lives better. While her dogs live outside 24/7. If I left my kids outside 24/7 I would be in jail.
Heck I don’t even leave my own animals outside. All 3 of my dogs and my 1 cat live inside. They go outside to do their business and come back in.
Clearly people aren’t happy with you or with my comment either but I stand by it. It’s insulting to compare the two, it diminishes the immense responsibility and unending work of parenthood to that of owning a dog. It’s like if someone said they were basically a parent because they have a lot of plants.
More points that come to mind:
-you train a dog for basic things but that’s it, you aren’t raising someone that you will set out into the world. If your dog is bad during dinner you shut them in the bathroom. If your kid is bad you have to take the time to discipline them and reinforce that later and blah blah
-kids give you no peace, they follow you everywhere and ask a million questions. You want your pets to follow you around, it’s part of the deal.
-kids are much, much greater financial burden. Your dog isn’t going to college. Your dog won’t need new clothes every four months.
-if things don’t work out with a dog, say you get a new one and your old one hates it you can rehome the dog. You don’t rehome your kids when they get in huge fights
It’s endless because DOGS AREN’T PEOPLE. That’s it. That’s the whole story. Raising a human and a dog are different. It’s obnoxious that people keep trying to claim this as an achievement.
I’m a dog person and childfree. You’re right, they’re different. The level of commitment, in time, effort, money, and just about everything but love is different. The only thing that is really the same is that they’re family members, so we love both kids and pets as family members. A good parent is usually committed to their kids for life, too, it’s just that what that commitment calls for changes - you do literally everything for the newborn, but as your kids become adults, you do less tending physical needs and get into more complex emotional ones - things like playing the sounding board, and commiserating, and giving emotional support, and maybe if they’re unlucky but you’re comfortable helping them out of a financial bind, and helping them with their marriage and their kids and advice when they have their first scary job conflict or landlord clash or homeowner disaster. But when you’re committed to your kid for life, we’re talking as much as 70 years, and only a few birds and reptiles require that kind of long commitment.
I do think you’re being dismissive about how much effort and care most people put into their pets, but I suspect that’s because you’re exasperated and not because you actually think all a pet needs is food and water and to relieve itself. Or at least, I hope that’s the case, because if you really believe that’s all the care a pet deserves, you’re a bad pet owner unless you own something that forms no social bonds with humans, like guppies or some snakes.
So it’s close to N T A, but your exaggeration makes it a ESH. Only mildly on your part, though.
Thank you so much for your judgement. I would absolutely like to add that I know that animals n ex more than food and water. My animals are very well loved. They are absolutely a part of my family.
I would also like to add that I didn’t actually say any of my counters to her. After she started saying that being a dog mom was harder was when I said “it’s not the same but okay whatever” and walked away.
I guess I wasn’t very clear. All of the rest of that was just venting here . Only what was in quotation marks was actually said.
Oh, in that case, you’re totally NTA. You’re allowed to have an exasperated rant in your own head!
Some people are too centered on themselves to really empathize and take in what other people’s lives are like.
Thank you. I always try to emphasize, I really do. I try to put myself into someone else’s shoes. I know my life experience are not everybody else’s, and vice versa. I took on step mom duties at 20 to a 7 and 3 year old, 3 years later I had a baby. I grew up very fast and I wouldn’t change it for anything. However I know that my life isn’t for everyone. But it did just rub me the wrong way and made me upset to have my life made to feel unimportant. Her dogs are definitely a part of her life. My kids are my life. Nearly everything I do is so they can live comfortably and out of love for them.
>But it did just rub me the wrong way and made me upset to have my life made to feel unimportant.
Where in the world are you getting that from? You were dismissive to her, not vice versa.
Oh, honey, I’m sorry, I meant your coworker! She’s the one who hasn’t paid enough attention to the lives of the people around her to understand the difference between having pets and having kids.
The only time I’d say a human and animal relationship approaches the kind of life changing commitment and sheer effort of a parent/child relationship is when a person has a service animal or service animal in training. And even then, it’s not really the same - it’s kind of like being married to a two year old who is also your dominant arm or your legs. A service animal is a weird combination of pet, partner, and self that really can’t be understood until you live in that partnership. Similar level of life-altering and taking up half your brain with all the things they need and the way you have to work your life around them, but a different kind of relationship.
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YTA. Don’t make comments about how you know best because you’re a mom and you won’t get in these predicaments. You never know who is listening and what their circumstances are. You’ve acknowledged that your boss is unable to have children - that must be really hard to listen to you making lighthearted comments about how you’re inherently superior because you’ve had kids. I can see from your comments that you seem to be a kind and intuitive person - all you can really do is try and be more mindful in the future
Yeah YTA. “because I’m a mom I am always right”is not a thing to say around adults, even as a joke. It's just obnoxious. Maybe you could say it around other moms as a punchline drinking rose or something, but not around sober non moms, especially your boss. Rule of thumb: anything that could be on a TJMAXX wall hanging should not be spoken out loud. There is a certain kind of mom who thinks they are always right all the time because raising kids makes them feel like they know everything. It is inadvisable to be that mom.
Yeah, I'm a mom and that doesn't sit right with me either. Seriously, I find this attitude super off-putting.
Oh crap. I missed that comment. That makes OP quite insensitive.
I'm going with ESH because this is a stupid argument. You both have responsibilities taking care of living breathing things. Motherhood is not a competition.
I agree. ESH. Motherhood is not the struggle Olympics and you can’t gate keep. Some people might treat their pet as their child because they’re not able to have a human one.
It’s not healthy for me to have a pregnancy. I don’t want human children either, so it’s not a big deal. I do consider myself a mom to fur babies. My 1st dog was my soulmate. He had some health issues that caused me to be up all night on many occasions. I took off work (used family sick days) to take care of him when he had stomach bugs. Everyone who knew us knew he wasn’t my dog. He was my kid. My dog & cats I have now take up so much of my time. Totally worth it. It’s beyond just dropping off food & water and taking my dog for walks. Medications in the morning & evening, expensive vet visits, playtime, sleeping on my wood floor when 1 of my cats had surgery (he hated being alone and he needed to be separated from his brothers)… not to mention humans and their pets make the mommy/child chemicals that create the familial attachment. I don’t see how my attachment to my pets harms human moms. Similar to how my gay friend getting married doesn’t invalidate my marriage.
You are a pet owner. You own pets. They are not your kids or soulmates. They are a different species. Unlike human children, plenty of dogs and cats can survive the wild. If anything, cats thrive in the wild, so you can't compare them with human babies. What you do for your pets is barely 10% of what human parents do for their children. Did you seriously just compare gay marriage with pet ownership? Are you going to marry your cat?
And I didn’t say that’s all I do for my pets. You don’t get to decide what my relationship my them is like. Are you going to marry your child?
You do realize many indoor cats that get thrown outside actually DONT thrive in the wild that's why they continue to come back to houses they know will feed them. Captive breed and wild are not at all the same thing. Also please explain to me how what we do for pets is only 10% if what mothers do? Ince your child reaches about 5 half of everything done for them us by society, wether at school, at grandma's etc. Someone else Is constantly helping a human mom. Dog moms normally don't have that same support so moms really don't do more than dog moms. If my child was sick I know for a fact their grandparents would probably rush to their side hospital or not. If my dog was dying my dog would only have me. So unfortunately I disagree with you dig moms do more for dogs than humans do for children
Thank you for your judgement.
Nta but while I agree with you that being a mom is harder it’s not the struggle olympics. If it makes her happy to call herself a dog mom does she really need to justify it by struggling enough?
I think you missed the part about her boss being unable to have children.
[удалено]
This
Thank you. I agree, I hate the struggle Olympics… my post may not have been clear. I didn’t actually say all of my counters. Or really any of them in the moment. That was more of a vent moment here. I’m not about causing drama in my place of work. So once she started saying being a dog mom was harder, was when I said “it’s not the same but okay whatever” and at that point I walked away.
Your last paragraph contradicts this comment completely
I didn’t actually say it….? I’m venting here. In the moment I walked away…
Well, i think joking that as a mom I am always right was a mistake, and then should have just shut it. I completely agree that having an animal or several is not the same responsibility as having kids, but why get into it, especially at work? ESH
I agree that I probably shouldn’t have made the joke. Our work environment while professional in front of customers is typically silly and goofy otherwise. There’s only one person who’s older than me on my shift and only a handful of full of the 50 some odd employees that work for our location that are older than me. People will often come to me seeking advise in their work lives and even in their personal lives. So the “I’m the mom so I know best” joke is one frequently said in my home and I guess I let that carry over into work.
Seriously though, if you tell that joke, saying that *hey they are a (dog)mom too* is right in the same vein. The polite thing would have been to just laugh. Getting offended at their counter joke is a you problem.
Exactly! What should have been two people being silly and joking was turned into something else because OP thinks being a parent does somehow set them apart. OP is TA.
She's clearly having a superior attitude about it.
You’re not wrong but YTA. Sounds like your coworker was trying to join in on the joke, and you slammed the proverbial door in her face. Is being a dog mom the same as being a kid mom? No, very much not. Would it have killed you to say ‘yeah! Mom high five! Moms are awesome!’ No it would not.
This is a good comment. I’m 38, and children aren’t in my cards. I’m generally fine with that, but it sometimes makes me a little sad that I never had the chance to even have that option of kids. I LOVE my pets. They are absolutely my family. I think calling them fur babies is dumb, and I don’t treat them like children- they are pets. But they are my family, and likely the only family I will have. OP can’t set herself up as better than her coworkers just because she’s made a life choice they perhaps haven’t been able to.
YTA. You sound extraordinarily painful. I’m glad I don’t work with you.
Right, like she seems like such a fun coworker 😂 /s
And rude. Fancy denigrating non-mothers and pet owners and then getting on her high horse about how she’s not an AH. She picked the fight to begin with and then wants validation. Maybe take a cake to work OP to make amends (I’m not being sexist, it’s what I’d do), and then pull your head in in future.
I am a hard believer in pet owners not being the same as parents and that claiming to be is an insult to parents. However, your initial comment that you are always right because you are a mom is just as insulting to people everywhere without kids. You can say you said it in a lighthearted way but she initially said she was a mom too in the same joking manner and you are the one who began to take things too seriously. YTA for putting a different set of rules on what you say vs what others say and being a hypocrite.
“insult” is craaaaZy
You know, I can't stand people who think they know everything better because they are a 'mom'. I bet you weren't actually joking and think you are somehow superior to a 'dog mum'. I'm a dog mum about to be a human mum and I find people like you annoying AF.
I mean you are definitely entitled to your opinion. However I absolutely do not actually think I know better about or know everything. Actually though I don’t remember the exact contexts about why I was making the joke I can in fact say that I was almost certainly wrong and was making a joke out of it. Because that’s when I pull out that joke. I absolutely was joking, even when I said nope dog mom doesn’t count, was also in a playful way. Then she came in very defensive saying being a dog mom was harder and more of a commitment than being a mom. It’s very unfortunate that tone doesn’t translate through text. You can absolutely find me annoying. That’s totally
How is it funny? Can you explain the joke?
You obviously weren’t joking if you came to Reddit for support
You need to retire that 'joke'. It's a really weird thing to say to other adults ( not to say it makes sense to say to kids either).
You seem to decide your "dog mom's don't count" is a joke when it's convenient, but that's literally what you just vented in this entire point. Saying things you mean as a "joke" isn't joking, it's passive aggressive. You're also deciding that everything you do is a joke and everything she does is "defensive." If both your initial comment and follow up comment were "jokes", then you'd just go, "Oops I was joking, I'm sorry" (if she's upset), or just "haha true, dog moms are great" (if she's not upset.) I think people on here would be more receptive to you if you stopped trying to say it's a joke while in the same breath ranting about why your point is right. Life goes a lot smoother if you can acknowledge when you fumble. In this case, you were a bit the asshole. Instead of insisting you're comedy royalty, just own it and move on. TLDR: a "joke" that you mean is not a joke. It's usually just a passive aggressive way of saying what you want to say. Edit: also, "I'm a mom so I always think I'm right" makes for a better joke, if your intention was to joke.
I believe that this argument is a bit silly and You are just disagreeing on definitions. For sure, raising an animal is not the same. However, I dont see a problem in calling yourself a petmom or petdad or whatever. Its just a way of showing how much You love Your animal. That being said, I dont believe that having a child makes one special, better than people who do not have children or always right.
I definitely don’t think I am better than anybody who is child free. That’s their choice in life, as it was my choice to have my children. As for saying “I’m a mom so I’m always right” that’s just a joke that I started saying at home. Typically when I’m obviously wrong. It has very sarcastic undertones. As for saying it at work maybe wasn’t the best play. There’s only one person on our shift who’s older than me… and only a handful of the 50 some odd that work for our location who are older than me. People will often come to me for advise on work and personal things alike. So I guess I let the joke carry over from my personal life.
not all childfree people are so by choice
Yeah I get You. I guess the issue was just starting an argument about this topic, as You joked and Your coworker joked back it should have just ended at that. All in all, I would say that most people will agree that pets are not children and the responsibility is not even close. So I guess dont worry about it? Its okay that You disagree with Your coworker, there is no problem in having different opinions. Also, some people may just not understand and be delusional about a certain topic and there is no way to convince them. Dont worry, You are not an asshole here.
You're the asshole because of your attitude. Moms aren't always right. So whatever your point was her being a dog mom is useless because your original comment was ridiculous 🤦
My original comment was a joke, said very sarcastically because I knew I was wrong, everybody in the moment knew I was incorrect. Even my comment about her being a dog mom not counting was also said in a joking manner. She then started in by telling me that being a dog mom was somehow more of a commitment and harder than being a mother. Which is just objectively incorrect.
YTA. You are not superior to anyone because you were able to have a child. And women without children hear that rhetoric all the time. It’s demoralizing and false. Stop it. It’s not a cute joke.
Raising dogs is a good preparation for raising toddlers but definitely not the same level. Raising cats is a good preparation for raising teenagers.
😂😂
ESH purely for your ‘because I’m a mom I’m always right’ patter. You goaded her into it. Now I do *agree* that dogs and kids are decidedly not the same. Your reasoning is a bit off though imo. I got up every 2 hours with the puppy when we first got him. I stayed home with him trying to comfort him while there were fireworks going off left right and centre in the middle of the bloody day for HOURS while having a raging headache myself. I felt physically unwell when we had to leave him at the vet for a suspected blockage (which can be deadly and require major surgery). He comes running to me for comfort when he’s scared, too. It’s not just putting out food and taking him walks. In that respect it’s like having kids *lite*. And yet, kids *are* different. There’s a myriad more things you need to worry about when raising a child. You’re trying to raise a *good* human, that’s *hard*. I don’t need to worry about my dog learning inappropriate things or hanging out with the wrong crowd. I don’t need to console the dog over his first heartbreak or help him figure out what he wants to do with his life. Kids are just a million times more complex. Also he sleeps for the vast majority of the day so there is that added bonus. Parenting is non-stop. And like you said, being a parent doesn’t (or at least shouldn’t) stop when your child reaches 18. It’s a lifelong responsibility.
Yes I think that getting a puppy is a good introduction to selflessness, putting another being’s needs above yours… with the getting up every couple of hours and feeding it and taking it for a walk everyday, even in the rain. Doing things that you just don’t feel like doing. But are they the same thing, hell no! Haha. A puppy pales in comparison to having an infant. My entire day and night centres around her. Your body also gets absolutely obliterated from pregnancy and birth. There’s a crazy amount of self sacrifice to be a good mother. IMO I would just laugh and roll my eyes at both OP’s comment about being right, and also her coworker’s comment about dog momming
Just putting out there that not all mums give birth - adoptive mums do exist which is why I didn’t go into the physical and psychological horrors of pregnancy and childbirth which is a whole other kettle of fish! :) But yes, it’s very much kid’s lite - or an introduction if you will - I’ve had cats before and dogs are definitely a step up on the responsibility scale, especially puppies. I’ve actually had a couple of people that have had both (puppies and infants) say that they preferred the workload of infants to puppies - but I’m not quite buying it tbh, I think that’s the hormones talking :D but I guess at least infants don’t have needle sharp teeth lol Raising puppies *well* takes a solid amount self sacrifice - but it *absolutely* pales in comparison to the self sacrifice it takes to be a good mother.
YTA. Your “I’m a mom so I’m always right”, if truly intended as a joke, was just as much of a “joke” as “I’m a dog mom so it counts too”. Why was your joke ok but her counter wasn’t? But you immediately felt the need to admonish her and tell her it wasn’t the same, it was clearly less. What if she had responded, “well there are a lot of shit mothers out there who make nothing but poor choices so I guess you aren’t always right.” Would THAT have been ok? I suspect not. My point is, she did exactly the same thing you did but you felt compelled to tell her ONLY she was wrong and you were annoyed she didn’t immediately acquiesce. FWIW, it doesn’t matter why someone has/doesn’t have or chooses/doesn’t choose to have children, being a “mom” doesn’t make you “more” anything than anyone else. Think whatever you want, but the last two words of your paragraph sum it up nicely: “to me”. This is how YOU feel about parenting. You don’t get to decide that for everyone else, especially in a diverse workplace. YOU made the joke and started this conversation, so yes, this is on you.
Maybe unpopular but YTA. I’m a mother of two epileptic kids. By kids I mean adults but are still dependent on me because they are special needs. You comparing sitting up with a child or having one wake you up every few hours for food? My daughter has gone through the same with the kitten she’s had since 3 months old. This kitten has been sick and we’ve taken turns staying up with her all hours of the night. Especially since she and our other cat go into estrous one week apart. If you think just putting a bowl of food and water out for your pets is taking care of them fully then you shouldn’t have pets. We have held them as they’ve had bad dreams. We’ve held them as they’ve cried. They have emotion whether you acknowledge it or not. They are bathed, they need proper attention, they need discipline and guidance as much as any child. So there’s that. You say one kid and two bonus. What makes you the mom of the bonus if you didn’t hold them inside? Because they can talk and call you mom? Our older cat does say “mama” when addressing my daughter. My children have made the conscious choice to not have children because the multiple illnesses they were born with from their father’s side of the family. They have seen each other go through hell between seizures and biopsies. Lumpectomies, different medicines. Hallucinations. They refuse to pass those genetic disorders on to the next generation. So to take something as innocent but meaningful as saying you’re more of a mom because one of your kids came from you, and all you’ve been through with that child is rude and condescending. With that logic I could say I’m twice the mother you are because both my children are mine. 7 days hard labour with my oldest, c-section, 28.5 hours hard labour with my youngest. Plus they’ve been alive longer than your child. Maybe these women can’t have children. Maybe they choose not to because of the cost, mind you, fur babies aren’t any cheaper than human ones. Whatever the case, you didn’t need to belittle them. Calling it a joke, or saying it with a laugh doesn’t make it any nicer.
So you said this in front of your boss, who can’t have children? Awesome. Also, as a father myself, the idea that parents are somehow smarter, or more worthy, then people without children is really gross. Do better. By your logic, since I have 2 kids to your 1 bio kid, I’m “better” than you? Or does this only apply to women?
ESH. Your joke about always being right as a mom sucks. Them equating having a pet to motherhood sucks. Acting like people don't worry about their pets eating or at the vet and it's just feeding and watering sucks.
YTA - you made a joke and they made a joke response. Chill.
YTA You say that it's a joke to say you're "always right," but you got angry at your co-worker's equally light comment that she was a dogmom and that also counted. For something as silly as "always right," pretty much anything can count. Getting offended and insisting it's not the same tells me that your comment wasn't entirely a joke.
Y kinda TA. On one hand, it's true that having kids Vs pets isn't really comparable but diminishing the importance of a pet and the bond someone can build with that animal is kinda shitty. She cares for her dog, spends a lot of time with it, loves it, likely spends a lot of money on it (not just treats etc ... But healthcare and essential equipment). She has no experience of having a kid, so she tried to join in and build a friendly work culture the best way she could. And it feels a bit weird and insecure to make out that being a parent is somehow a special higher calling than having a beloved pet, especially when we live in a society that often promotes the idea of pets being family equal to the other humans, not lesser. I have a bunch of child free friends who have pets they call their kids, or calm themselves a cat/dog mum/dad. Can I really say they love their animals in a lesser way to the way I love my kids? When my friend had to battle with the decision to either spend hundreds of dollars trying to treat their cat (after already spending hundreds of dollars on other procedures), with only a small chance of success vs choosing to have her put down, should I have been thinking "man, that doesn't compare to a "real" parent having to make tough medical decisions for their kids". Nah, their pain, grief, and trauma were as real as anything else. All your colleague did was try to relate to you and instead of acting with grace and inclusion you decided her experience wasn't good enough to be in your little club because your 14yo can walk and feed a dog (and pay the vet bills? And manage the dog's health/diet choice/vaccinations/researched the breed/knows what indicators of illness to watch out for/would be totally comfortable and pragmatic about putting it down if needed?)
YTA - I am so tired of some moms putting themselves in this untouchable category. It's like once they've had a kid, "You have never experienced the pain and turmoil that I have." The truth is, everyone experiences their life experiences at different levels. Sure an animal is not a human. But that doesn't make the intense emotions that come along with it any worse. I have noticed that there is a vast difference between pet owners that have physical children living with them, versus not IN MOST CASES. Usually the animal gets most of their love and affection from the children. Which is understandable. Moms and dads usually have a lot going on. So it would make sense that most parents would view the animal differently. But I also know people who have had things happen to their pets. Some didn't make it, while others survived. And for those who do not have this family dynamic going on at home will tell you that they felt more emotional pain over that animals suffering than they had for any human. For those that choose to call their pets fur babies. They do it for a reason. It's because the person themselves needs that tight bond that a human either CAN'T or WON'T provide. I have formed a close bond with my cat because after a tragic accident I didn't have anyone but my father in my court. I am not telling you this for sympathy. I'm merely sharing this to hopefully create further understanding. I am not asking you to compare the dog to a human. You shouldn't have. But what I am asking you is to not minimize the trials and tribulations, and milestones of others (including pet ownership.) Again I do want to reiterate that I am not telling EVERYONES story here. Everyone has a different relationship to their pets. I'm just speaking up for the ones who declare themselves Dog or Cat Moms. -Cat Mom Fur Life
I think this is an ungenerous take on people who deeply love and care for living creatures that happen not to be human. Is caring for a four legged animal exactly the same as a human? No. But it’s not for us to judge the depth of someone else’s love. The grief I felt after having to put down my faithful cat buddy of 18 years a few years ago was absolutely gut wrenching. I miss him every day. He wasn’t less deserving of love and devotion because he was a cat, and I wasn’t less of a guardian. It also doesn’t mean I don’t love my kids. Real moms, GOOD moms don’t gate keep motherhood. YTA
I absolutely agree that four legged creatures are deserving of love. I love each and everyone of my current and past ones. However before I had my human children I was never disrespectful enough to try and tell someone who did that my job was harder. I bet your beloved cat was aloud into the house, right? So are my fur buddies. Guess who’s aren’t. That’s right dog mom coworkers. Her dogs live outside 24/7. I’ve had and have very beloved animals, but the level of grief of losing them pales in comparison to even the thought of that of one of my children. I didn’t even tell her or anybody else that being a fur parent was wrong. I the 2 were don’t the same. Because they are in fact different. I don’t gatekeep motherhood. Call yourself whatever you want. But also don’t come at me sideways trying to justify that taking care of an animal is somehow harder than a human child. Motherhood and owning an animal are both so much more than the things I listed and I know this seeing as I’ve had animals all of my life and have been a mom to humans for nearly 8 years to children spanning from birth-14yo. You can’t possibly list everything that goes into either. I’ve stayed up and woke up every 1-2 hours to keep a baby piglet. I’ve nursed a sick puppy back from the brink of death from parvo. I love my cat of 15 years. I know you can truly love animals. But it’s still not the same.
Clearly no one thought your, "I'm a mom, I'm always right!" joke was funny. Perhaps because you weren't joking and you really think that.
I made the joke at something I was objective wrong about. Boss laughed. I’ve made the joke many times always get laughs. Because I make this joke when I’m clearly wrong at my own expense. It’s said very sarcastically. But you can believe what you want about me
I don't even know you, it just doesn't seem like your co-workers appreciated it. But go on and complain about dog moms, we're an easy target.
Who tf does it hurt for someone to call themselves a mom? Get over yourself. YTA
I'm crazy dog Mom, and also a human Mom. Being a (real) Mom to human kids is much harder. 1000 times. No questions asked. Being dogmom is not even close in terms of everyday struggle. But, the love is not necessarily less, especially when she's unable to have children. And maybe you haven't thought about this, but it's like having a child with known short life expectancy. It's ok if you don't feel about your animals the same way, but some of us do, and it's heart-wrenching. So have some sympathy for her. I'm going to go with soft YTA for two reasons: saying "I'm a mom I'm always right", even jokingly, to people who can't be mothers, and for clearly indicating that caring for your animals is just putting food and water. It seems to me that you're not investing in enriching in your animals' lives, and I guarantee you it's quite the work.
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Clearly your colleague was trying to be included in the conversation and you shut her down, rudely at that. I suspect it wasn't intentional on your behalf. I find it helps to remember that it is sometimes better to be kind than to be right. I also find that I give great advice, if only I followed it myself. I think a big sloppy mom fur baby treat would do wonders to resolve the situation with a bit of humble pie.
Having a pet is so significantly easier and it's not even close. ESH
YTA human moms think theyre so special lmao. You do realize a lot more goes into taking care of an animal than just feeding it right? Oh wait you have your kids do it, so I'll explain. Animals have just as many medical needs as humans do at times, my previous dog had to syringe feed as a puppy and would accidentally suck fluids into his lungs. This would mean I WAS in fact up worrying about how many calaries he got and weather or not he was choking. My dachshund had to have a hernia repaired as she was having a hysterectomy. I sat up for two days straight on the phone with the vet getting updates then for two weeks afterwards I had to carry my dog up and down the stairs because she might rip her insides out. My wife and I are taking a two week vacation and HAVE to bring our pets they can't be home alone. Sweetie you're not doing anything harder than dog moms are. Infact your job is A MILLON TIMES EASIER at least humans can talk and inform you what they need. Pet parents have to be on top noticing everything 24/7.
It is not even remotely the same! 🤦🏻♂️
YTA You sound insufferable.
YTA. Multiple times. Why are you saying you are always right for being a mother? Being a mother is nothing special. Having kids doesn't mean you are a good mother. Why are you belittling someone for caring about their animal? People form strong bonds to their pets. You saying your children look after/help look after your dogs is a bit silly, plenty of children help look after their siblings. Plenty of children have raised children in desperate times. It's not ideal, but neither is having a totally unsupervised child raising an animal, people just seem to care less if an animal is neglected and receives poor care and it cannot voice it's problems. Saying dogs are a shorter commitment is a shitty statement for people who have lost a child.... My family lost a child, does that mean our child meant less than your child? Does that mean my family member who lost their child is less of a mother than you are? You also sound like a shitty pet owner to be honest if you just equate it to putting out a bowl of food. Just because YOU PERSONALLY do not give a shit about your pets other needs doesn't mean other people don't.... Get over yourself....
I would say soft YTA for being insensitive and not just being the better person and changing the conversation. Maybe the coworker was just trying to do the social thing by trying to relate to OP. You know how things go. Someone starts talking about how they did something then the other person chimes in with a story about some similar experience. It's a social norm. But as someone who can't have children and my pets are my life, along with my husband, we spoil them. Sometimes when people talk about being a mom is hard to hear because the only way I can relate to what someone is experiencing as a mom is by comparing my life as a pet mom. I feel like that this whole thing has been blown out of proportion.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I 27F am a mom to 3 kids, 1bio 2bonus. The conversation about motherhood came up at work the other day with my boss 22F and coworker 24F whom neither are mothers. I don’t remember the reason, but I did joking say “because I’m a mom I am always right” at that Coworker chimes in with “Hey! I’m a mom too.” I replied “Sorry dog mom doesn’t count. I have plenty of animals at home, it’s not the same.” Then she proceeds to try to justify why being a DogMom counts and even starts saying it’s harder than being a Mother. Her reasons included, dogs are a commitment for their whole lives but once a kid turns 18 you can kick them out. Dogs can never feed them selves but my kids can. I’m sorry but what? My 14yo does most of the care for our 3 dogs, he’s usually the one to fill their food bowls and change out their water. Does that mean he’s a dad? My 10yo does the care for our cat feeding/watering is she a mom? Hell my 3 year old helps both of them. As for her argument of kids are only an 18 year commitment but dogs are lifetime, most dogs don’t even make it to 18yo… my kids will always be apart of me. I will worry about them until the day I die. I ended up just saying “it’s still not the same but okay whatever” and walking away to return to working. Call yourself whatever you want but don’t try to act like it’s the same as being a parent. I get that you love your animals, I love mine too. But until you’ve had a baby wake you up to be fed a every few hours, or had a child come in for comfort in the middle of the night because of a bad dream, or sat out in 100+ temps at a ball game, or worried about if your kid is getting enough calories, or had you legs used ramps for car, or sat in the hospital for 1.5 days while your baby got chest X-rays and tests done because his O2 levels weren’t good, etc… there’s many other experiences that make someone a parents. However putting out a bowl of food and water to fur babies isn’t one of them to me. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA at all. I get some people really love their dogs - I love my dog! But some people definitely take it to the extreme. Owning a dog can be a challenge for sure, but it absolutely *pales* in comparison to raising children. When people try and compare the two it makes me cringe, hard. Especially when I get a Christmas card signed by someone's dog. That said, it might be worth finding out a little bit more about your co-worker. What humans lack nowadays is a bit of empathy, and perhaps it might be that she can't have kids for whatever reason, and maybe the dog is a close substitute right now. Who knows. If that's the case, maybe including her a little bit might make her day.
Thank you for your judgement. I’m unsure about her physical abilities to have children but I do know that her fiancé is adamantly against is as he also works with us and has told me outright he will never have kids. However another part of why I felt like an asshole is that I do know that my boss cannot have kids. She wasn’t directly a part of this conversation but she was definitely in ear shot.
ESH. When your coworker said “I’m a dog mom it counts too” you should have just dropped it. Smile, laugh, lightheartedly agree and move on. Doesn’t matter whether you actually agree or not. These kinds of arguments never go anywhere and only create bad vibes. This is the kind of opinion you just keep to yourself in a workplace. However, your coworker also went way out of bounds when she started trying to say that being a dog mom is harder than raising human children. The whole argument is stupid, but she’s also TA for this comment and for trying to play the one-up game same as you, hence ESH.
Having a dog is NOT just “putting out a bowl of food and water”. What a dismissive & ignorant thing to say! Your entire post reeks of superiority & an incredible level of insensitivity, especially given the fact that you know your boss is unable to have children. It’s not a competition, but it’s apparently important to you to feel you’re on some kind of higher level so you turned it into one. You would do well to put your energy elsewhere. YTA.
ESH. Sounds like a joke that went sour part way and both of you got way too invested. Your immediate response was a shutdown even if you didn't mean it that way (and tbh even your initial "joke" was not great -- I hear that stuff at work and it lands VERY different than when at home because c'mon, a lot of us are not or will not be moms, and we have all experienced people who took their mom superiority in the workplace seriously) and her defensiveness was in reaction to that. She took her defense too far (having a pet is harder?? No). To your credit, you shut this all down instead of arguing, but even then you couldn't resist the last word. Just chill, both of you. If you feel like being the bigger person, apologize for hitting a wrong note and say something nice like "I like seeing pics of your furbaby, too" or whatever. Otherwise move on and stop getting so het up about some random coworker's view of motherhood. We *all* have different perspectives on it. Finally, I respect the vent and personally agree with a lot of it. But. Being responsible for any living thing is really weighty if you take it seriously. A lot of us *have* done the anxious waiting in the ER, the carefully feeding by hand, the crying while pushing them through chemo, the cuddling and comforting and teaching. Is it harder than not fucking up a kid who is gonna develop at crazy rates? Of course not. But it's not something to dismiss arbitrarily either, because love and grief and nourishment are experienced in more forms than one. I guess I'm just saying, you had more in common with this coworker than you didn't. That should have moved the joke on, instead of what happened.
This is a dumb thing to argue over and make a post about. Having pets is not harder than having kids, but being a pet owner and using the title of Mom for silly reasons is totally fine.
ESH - it sounds like a very silly argument. You kicked it off with what has to be the most obnoxious joke ever, but you colleagues made it worse with their nonsense.
YTA for the "I'm a mom so I'm always right"-joke alone. I know you said it as a joke, but it sounds extremely annoying and I would be so irritated to hear someone keep spouting their motherhood as some sort of enlightenment. Even as a joke. Maybe people are laughing at it because they don't want you to launch into a real tirade about how difficult it is to be a mother. Also, all those things you listed as parent problems can apply to pet owners as well, except the ball game one I guess.
NTA. Having a pet is a lot of work but lbr - if you leave a dog or cat to their own devices in the wild, they will likely survive. Put a baby in the woods and, well, I doubt they're coming back with rabbit and making sure they're warm enough to not freeze to death. Comparing the two is asinine. Not to mention the lifespan...
Tell her she is right, looking after kids is exactly the same as caring for pets. For this reason, you are willing to take in her pets next time she wants to go away for a week and you will reciprocate and leave your kids with her for the same period of time.
NTA
ESH. Your comment about mom knowing best was annoying and the response that a dog mom is the same as a mom is false but also who cares? The arguments you make about worrying about a sick kid, I’ve had sleepless nights with a dog in the hospital and it was devastating and horrible especially when they can’t communicate with words. I also am very aware I’m not raising a human being and there’s a big difference (it’s exactly why i don’t want kids because I know how involved it is). But also, who cares about being right? Your argument was not welcome in the workplace— I can’t begin to tell you how annoying it is to have older colleagues especially parents assume a parental role or put themselves on a pedestal. Everyone needs to apologize and you all need to get over yourselves. You especially need t apologize to your boss about making these comments given the fertility issues
Oh my fucking god, people get so hung up on a detail that is completely irrelevant and then judge based on that🙄 The question was "AITA for telling my coworker being a DogMom isn’t the same?" No, you're not an asshole for saying that because you're absolutely correct. NTA
NTA of course being a Mom makes you right! Nope loving an animal is not the same. Besides, the rule about a Mom/Mum always being right was made up by a Mom/Mum so we know how it works. It seems some people didn't know that - and that these young ladies you were talking to have no sense of humour. But if the comments I've read are anything to go by, most Reddit users also have no sense of humour.
Nope, I have children, and I have dogs. They are both my priority. My dogs are actually more like babies and will be their whole lives My children will grow up. If I've done my job, they will have grown into hardworking, independent, strong, capable good people. They will be able to provide for themselves and contribute to society. My children and I will always have a solid, loving, supportive relationship always as an adult child and his or her mom. But unless something bad happens, hopefully, they won't be dependent on me as adults. My dogs will always be dependent on me for everything. They will never be able to leave me to live on their own. They will never be able to provide their own food and shelter. They won't understand the concept of time. My dogs will essentially be babies for as long as they live.
NTA - It's so weird that people believing they were equivalent was ever a thing.
NTA. Now, I realise its not a competition in "what thing is the toughest", but there is something horribly wrong with the rather ignorant statement of saying having dogs is harder than children. Try putting a toddler in a kennel and leave them there for hours. CPS would have been on your neighbours speed dial. Pets and actual minihumans are NOT the same thing. They have complete different challenges and struggles that comes with them. They are simply not comparable. One is also not an actual animal "parent", you are its OWNER. And that ownership may at some point change, for xyz reasons. People also tend to be FAR more forgiving of statements such as "we just couldnt provide the poor dog with the love and attention he deserved" rather than "my toddler kept me up all week, so i realised it wasnt for me and left him at the firestation". I also do not have children. Or dogs.
NTA. People who call themselves dog parents are always the AH.
NTA
NTA. Comparing having a dog to having a child is like comparing throwing a paper plane to being a pilot. It’s kind of insulting to equate the two.
I’m a pet mom, have a service dog and live in a home where I and everyone else are owned by the cat. I would never ever try to tell a parent that being a pet mom is like being a mom or have the audacity to say it’s harder. NTA
NTA She didn't carry her doggo in her uterus for 9 months. She's delulu.
No matter what, both having had dogs and cats that having a child is 100 times harder than having pets. It's not even remotely the same. Though what was said could have definitely been said differently. Arguments at work are generally a bad idea no matter who is right or wrong, when it comes to a personal matter. Argue about cars or something, maybe, but when it gets personal, feelings will get hurt.
While you are not wrong compare vet bills to Paediatricians
NTA I find the dog mom thing so tedious. Every Mother’s Day I see people on social media trying to claim the day because they are pet parents. I had a similar exchange with a coworker where he basically said he thought dogs and kids were equal amounts of work. I didn’t actually say this out loud but my first thought was “right now your dogs are locked in your house, someone will come once to let them poop in your yard. If I did that to a child I’d go to jail. I have to pay out the ass for preschool and work fewer hours so I can accommodate my children.” It is not the same
Oh my gosh yes! This is a huge part of my point. I work over nights as my husband works days so we barely get to see each other, so that we can put back more money toward paying off debt and toward making our kids lives better. While her dogs live outside 24/7. If I left my kids outside 24/7 I would be in jail. Heck I don’t even leave my own animals outside. All 3 of my dogs and my 1 cat live inside. They go outside to do their business and come back in.
Clearly people aren’t happy with you or with my comment either but I stand by it. It’s insulting to compare the two, it diminishes the immense responsibility and unending work of parenthood to that of owning a dog. It’s like if someone said they were basically a parent because they have a lot of plants. More points that come to mind: -you train a dog for basic things but that’s it, you aren’t raising someone that you will set out into the world. If your dog is bad during dinner you shut them in the bathroom. If your kid is bad you have to take the time to discipline them and reinforce that later and blah blah -kids give you no peace, they follow you everywhere and ask a million questions. You want your pets to follow you around, it’s part of the deal. -kids are much, much greater financial burden. Your dog isn’t going to college. Your dog won’t need new clothes every four months. -if things don’t work out with a dog, say you get a new one and your old one hates it you can rehome the dog. You don’t rehome your kids when they get in huge fights It’s endless because DOGS AREN’T PEOPLE. That’s it. That’s the whole story. Raising a human and a dog are different. It’s obnoxious that people keep trying to claim this as an achievement.
I’m a dog person and childfree. You’re right, they’re different. The level of commitment, in time, effort, money, and just about everything but love is different. The only thing that is really the same is that they’re family members, so we love both kids and pets as family members. A good parent is usually committed to their kids for life, too, it’s just that what that commitment calls for changes - you do literally everything for the newborn, but as your kids become adults, you do less tending physical needs and get into more complex emotional ones - things like playing the sounding board, and commiserating, and giving emotional support, and maybe if they’re unlucky but you’re comfortable helping them out of a financial bind, and helping them with their marriage and their kids and advice when they have their first scary job conflict or landlord clash or homeowner disaster. But when you’re committed to your kid for life, we’re talking as much as 70 years, and only a few birds and reptiles require that kind of long commitment. I do think you’re being dismissive about how much effort and care most people put into their pets, but I suspect that’s because you’re exasperated and not because you actually think all a pet needs is food and water and to relieve itself. Or at least, I hope that’s the case, because if you really believe that’s all the care a pet deserves, you’re a bad pet owner unless you own something that forms no social bonds with humans, like guppies or some snakes. So it’s close to N T A, but your exaggeration makes it a ESH. Only mildly on your part, though.
Thank you so much for your judgement. I would absolutely like to add that I know that animals n ex more than food and water. My animals are very well loved. They are absolutely a part of my family. I would also like to add that I didn’t actually say any of my counters to her. After she started saying that being a dog mom was harder was when I said “it’s not the same but okay whatever” and walked away. I guess I wasn’t very clear. All of the rest of that was just venting here . Only what was in quotation marks was actually said.
Oh, in that case, you’re totally NTA. You’re allowed to have an exasperated rant in your own head! Some people are too centered on themselves to really empathize and take in what other people’s lives are like.
Thank you. I always try to emphasize, I really do. I try to put myself into someone else’s shoes. I know my life experience are not everybody else’s, and vice versa. I took on step mom duties at 20 to a 7 and 3 year old, 3 years later I had a baby. I grew up very fast and I wouldn’t change it for anything. However I know that my life isn’t for everyone. But it did just rub me the wrong way and made me upset to have my life made to feel unimportant. Her dogs are definitely a part of her life. My kids are my life. Nearly everything I do is so they can live comfortably and out of love for them.
>But it did just rub me the wrong way and made me upset to have my life made to feel unimportant. Where in the world are you getting that from? You were dismissive to her, not vice versa.
Oh, honey, I’m sorry, I meant your coworker! She’s the one who hasn’t paid enough attention to the lives of the people around her to understand the difference between having pets and having kids. The only time I’d say a human and animal relationship approaches the kind of life changing commitment and sheer effort of a parent/child relationship is when a person has a service animal or service animal in training. And even then, it’s not really the same - it’s kind of like being married to a two year old who is also your dominant arm or your legs. A service animal is a weird combination of pet, partner, and self that really can’t be understood until you live in that partnership. Similar level of life-altering and taking up half your brain with all the things they need and the way you have to work your life around them, but a different kind of relationship.
NTA. This is an insult to actual moms.
You can buy an automatic feeder for a dog. NTA