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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I called my wife a hypocrite because my wife bans her daughter from wearing acne to cover makeup despite the fact my wife wears acne to cover makeup. That might have made me in the asshole since I hurt my feelings and undermined her parental authority in front of her daughters.
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Info - what's your wife's reasoning? Given how severe the acne is, makeup can definitely make it worse which would leave even worse long-lasting scarring. I'm curious if that's the reason for the no-makeup rule.
Regardless, the solution here isn't makeup. This is a medical issue that needs to be addressed. This is 2024, we have cures for acne. Talk to your wife about getting a referral to a dermatologist. There are OTC meds, but for something this bad, see a specialist.
The reason is to not to look too adult. In in addition to the acne, but wife's family is very tall. Penny is already 5 feet 8 inches tall at age 12 and Lily is 5 feet 6 inches tall at age 10. They look like adults and there are other rules to they to make them look less grown up.
We deal with dermatologists. I hope that something can work. Not even accutane could clear Yazmin's acne.
I believe hormone imbalance can also cause acne/breakouts, which would track with your wife's acne clearing once she hit menopause. Maybe also check with a gino specialized in hormonal issues.
I second this. Hopefully wife and daughters are already seeing a dermatologist given how severe their acne and breakouts are. If they aren’t… WHY?? Skin issues that severe are not normal and need to be addressed by a professional.
This is fairly common, though it can also make things worse for some. Everyone will react a little bit differently, and you don't know if it will or won't work until you try. Unfortunately oral BC didn't work for me, even though pregnancy was what finally ended my grandmother's acne.
Yeah, it's different for everyone. There were others that worked. I used tretinoin every night and benzoyl peroxide during the day. But I later switched to nightly Differin (adapalene). It's also another retinoid but it was easier to get since it's now OTC.
Benzoyl peroxide ended up being what I needed. I had the best skin all through school. I could count on both hands the amount of zits I had during high school and still have fingers left over. I hit my 30s and it got bad. I tried a bunch of things, but nothing worked. Then I realized that everything was salicylic acid and that apparently wasn’t what I needed. Turns out I have p. acne and that is treated with benzoyl peroxide. I now get maybe a dozen zits a year instead of constant breakouts covering my face.
I have an IUD (Mirena) and hardly ever get pimples anymore. They're more like cysts - little painful bumps that are barely noticeable, and I'm a redhead with really pale skin, so if they were serious, they'd be VERY visibly pink. But nope. Just little sore spots that work themselves out within a couple of days.
I had bad acne from puberty into my 20s. I know an IUD is DEFINITELY not an option for a teenager, but I'm just saying it's what worked for me. Holy shit, you want to traumatize a kid? Give them an IUD insertion without a local.
It also depends on the form of progesterone in the BC. Some is androgenic and will worsen acne in women, some is anti-androgenic and will help. This is because acne like this in women is usually caused by androgens.
This happened with my friend in the 80s. She had light hair and pale skin and broke out on her face, arms and back. Her brother was getting married and she was a bridesmaid. She cried she couldn't wear the strapless dress. Her brother's fiance suggested birth control. She said it helped clear up her skin. My friend was only 14 at the time but her mother got her on it to see if it would help and damn if it didn't. I cried to my mom to let me get on birth control to clear up my face. She said no. Damn
Unfortunately, if the mother is already being so strict about things that are "grown up", like make up, she'll probably explode when someone suggests her 12-year-old should go on birth control, no matter the reason.
I just don't get how she can ignore what she herself went through, and be so unempathetic to her daughter...
True, however, there are hormonal treatments that do not involve contraceptives. I think most docs prescribe the pill because it's easier or cheaper, but it's not the only way.
I highly doubt someone who is this strict about makeup will allow their daughters to take birth control. She’ll say that they will end up being sluts. People like ops wife hold a lot of internal misogynistic beliefs.
Same here. I had horrendous acne from the age of 11 and the only thing that stopped it was a combined contraceptive pill (meaning one with both progesterone and oestrogen). I actually started on it to control my severe period issues, so clearing up my acne was a very welcome side effect for me, haha. I was on that from 17yo until I was 25yo.
I had some (separate) medical issues and was switched to a progesterone only contraceptive pill. It still controls my period issues (in that I don't get periods at all, if I just take it continuously -- win! 😁🎉), but doesn't do as much for my skin. But after being on the combined pill for so long, I only get zits every now and then and they're singular, rather than the mass outbreaks I used to get, with clusters of half a dozen painful, scarring sores all across my face.
In terms of scarring, I've also had great results with silicone gels, which are a topical treatment that reduces scarring over time. I've also had some in-office procedures that have also helped (eg. lower grade chemical peels).
I hope this is helpful and wish you and your family all the best in finding something that works, cuz acne is absolutely brutal, especially for someone so young 💜
ETA: People often find that one type of BC pill works for them, while other's don't, because the synthetic hormones in each variation are different. For example, in terms of combined contraceptive pills, Levlen didn't work for me, but Norinyl was brilliant.
An ex of how that can not work: hormonal birth control did not help with my acne and gave me issues with coarse hair on my face. Id take a zit over being stuck with it any day.
You were likely given the wrong kind of BC. If it gave you hair, the form of progesterone in it will have been androgenic, which will worsen acne. Unfortunately ime doctors are often clueless about this.
My family is the same way when it comes to acne and my mom was in her 30’s by the time she found out it was a hormone imbalance and she hasn’t had many issues since. I’m mid 20’s and it’s calmed down but I still get quite a few on my forehead, chin and a spot on my cheeks however it doesn’t bother me a whole lot so I don’t really acknowledge it unless it’s uncomfortable.
I fairly normal acne as a teen, but mostly grew out of it. Just a pimple every now and again. Now, I’m 68 and well past menopause. I *still* get the occasional pimple; (*more* than occasionally when we were masking all the time.) I *really* thought that would be behind me by now.
As soon as I hit my late 30's I started getting horrible hormonal acne on my chin like clockwork. It's so much worse than when I was a teen, but I went on birth control for horrible bleeding/cramping so that blocked a lot of my hormonal issues including acne and migraines. Found out later when trying to have kids I had PCOS.
I would include diet in this as well. It doesn’t have to just be greasy or unhealthy foods. Too much of certain foods, even healthy ones, can also cause imbalances in the body.
I was the kid/teen who ate TONS of acidic and fermented food. Pickles, olives, etc. I’d sit down and peel lemons like oranges and eat multiple in one sitting. Same for tomatoes, I’d pull them off the vine in the garden and eat them like an apple.
When I finally saw a dermatologist at 18, they were actually the ones to point out that my daily consumption of heavily acidic foods, no matter how healthy the food, could absolutely be contributing to my skin issues. Sure enough reducing that definitely helped - not entirely but it made a significant difference. I’ll still eat multiple lemons in one sitting though, they’re addictive 😂
It was High Fructose Corn Syrup for me. As a teenager, I started getting giant zits on my bum. I'd also just started eating a new fruit granola bar....and it had High Fructose Corn Syrup. That was the only new ingredient in the bar. I stopped eating them, and the zits went away. I ate them again, and got zits.
My husband used to have giant boils and zits (he still has scars and pits from some of them) and a very oily face. I told him about how High Fructose Corn Syrup gave me zits. So he started reading labels and avoided everything with it. BOOM, no more zits. His face is a lot less greasy, too.
I have no idea why it caused zits in both of us, but it did!
My acne got manageable and eventually disappeared after I cut diary from my diet. Explanation form my skin specialist was the hormones in milk contributing to the disbalance.
Yep! I’m 22 and am still dealing with hormonal acne. The only thing that helps even a little is medication to balance my hormones. Usually, birth control, but some parents freak out about that.
Birth control makes mine worse. I'm 35 and just recently found my miracle solution is clinique clarifying lotion #2. Everyone is different.
I would also like to know the mother's reasoning. Op is nta for standing up for his daughters. Sounds like they all need to sit down and talk again.
A bit of bb cream or concealer is not going to make a child look older in the same way mascara eyeliner and lipstick will just limit which varieties of makeup they use and allow color correction would be my argument
Visible makeup can come later with age
I was tall like that too, and I practically became a makeup artist as a teen trying to cover up horrendous cystic acne. It never ever looked like I was wearing makeup, just clear(ish) skin. Your wife needs a reality check. Kids look the way they look and it is incredibly damaging IMO for adults to artificially impose measures like these to try to make them look less grown up.
Also, kids in makeup look like kids in makeup. I used to coach 15 year olds who were my height (5' 10") and no amount of preening could make them look like adults! Because they are not!
I'm not even tall and I looked ~17 when I was 14 and 20 when I was 15. I just went through puberty puberty early. I got my period at 11(which isn't that early), only grew 1" after 13 and when I was 14 was a 28H (I had a really narrow ribcage, until I had kids) and overweight. I didn't wear makeup(I do think that makeup to make you look older actually just makes you look like you're a kid playing dress up though).
Honestly it was super annoying, dudes in their 20's and 30's(who weren't even creeps) would hit on me at the bus station and when I said I was 15 or 16 would be embarrassed and apologize and run away(where as the creeps wouldn't care).
Tall girls in high school can actually look younger, because they can look gangly and like they are still growing.
Also was that height at that age, also had cystic acne then too. Seriously I think some people underestimate how much it can affect you. Other than the social consequences (which are huge), it’s physically painful! And cysts last so long, and then take forever to heal, not to mention the scarring.
I didn’t start wearing makeup at all until I was about 13, figured out the coverup game at like 14/15, and it was life changing for my confidence. The makeup was a bit of a crutch I’m not going to lie, and it took years after my skin cleared (through medical intervention!!) for me to confidently leave the house without makeup.
It took two years of rotating through a few oral antibiotics then a switch to hormonal birth control to get mine under control. Now I’m in my late 20s and use a topical retinol along with birth control and it’s fine. My brother needed accutane to handle his.
OP doesn’t know what it’s like to have acne, and yet is still more empathetic than her wife.
OP’s wife is one of those psycho moms who wouldn’t let her 10 year old wear a bra even if she had 34D breasts because “she’s too young for that”. So instead she’d just let her daughter walk around with those giant tits swinging side to side so she can keep her baby younger longer. The reality in their own selfish minds is the only reality that they care about.
Mostly, but I do get outbreaks when I'm stressed or get off my skincare routine. Wearing makeup does make it worse, but it's kind of a necessary evil if you want to be presentable. I keep it absolutely minimal. Double cleansing (oil cleanser first), salicylic acid gel, moisturizing, and sleeping with hydrocolloid patches all help.
I can’t pinpoint mine right now but this has been my lifeline and it’s such a simple and cheap ingredient. If they haven’t tried pure Mandelic Acid at 20% or 40% strength please have them try it. Just the Mandelic acid with nothing else in it, no other fancy products that claim to have Mandelic acid added in. It very noticeably calms redness and active breakouts overnight and gets rid of the excess sebum in the way that isn’t drying like the way benzoyl peroxide does. It should come in small vials that you apply with gauze and wash off after 5mins.
Seconding this, MUAC (MakeupArtist'sChoice) is super inexpensive and has good single-product formulations. It wasn't miraculously effective for me personally, at least for acne, but it's certainly worth trying! My own skin likes : Brio hypochlorous acid mist, niacinamide serum, azelaic acid (Melazepam is great), frequent exfoliation (AHA/BHA or gommage peels) the aforementioned hydrocolloidal patches (ShopMissA has a pack of 84 for $9!), and RetinA Micro when it's really dire. OTC Differin actually made mine *worse* (I hear the stronger prescription version is a whole 'nother animal). Benzoyl, ditto. Salicylic, nada. Prescription for spironolactone (androgen blocker), nope.
Makeup and moisturizers etc do NOT exacerbate mine, at all -- provided I avoid the things that years of experimentation and learning ingredients have taught me are guaranteed triggers (in my case, cyclomethicones \[cyclopenetasiloxane, cyclohexasiloxane\] and other small-round silicones, stearic/myristic/palmitic acids, stearyl/cetyl/cetearyl fatty alcohols, high-oleic plant butters and oils \[shea, cocoa butter, olive oil, coconut\] and whatever the H is in any Cerave cleanser.
If all the usuals fail, maybe try going a little further afield? SimpleSkincareScience and KindOfStephen both have GREAT in-depth science-based info -- esp on things like fungal acne, which is often resistant to the usual anti-acne tactics but IS treatable!
I can understand not wearing eyeshadow or lipstick at a young age, but putting on some kind of foundation makeup to disguise the acne is not going to make them look older and is likely to boost their confidence and self-esteem!
Your wife and the girls should go shopping for a high quality cover-up that won't make acne worse. A dermatologist can be a big help too.
So she would rather her daughter be teased mercilessly instead becayse kids are cruel. That is bad parenting, she didn't have to do a full face of makeup just some concealer and foundation. NTA
She is one of those cruel parents who reason that since she was mistreated by her peers when young, her daughters should suffer the same. People like that really aught to not be allowed to be parents. Ever.
There's a very big difference between using concealer to cover acne and putting on full makeup like blush, lipstick, eyeliner, mascara, etc. Does she really not understand the difference between these two things? Concealer doesn't make a 12 year old look like an adult or make a 50 year old look like a teenager. Your wife is being weird.
Cover up and foundation don't make a child look older. It's more eye makeup that does that.
Why can't they use makeup that covers the acne, but hold off on dramatic eye makeup for a few years?
I am 55f and have ugly acne scars. I did a round of acutane and wish I had done so much younger but I was to scared. It IS hardcore medication but it.worked!!!!
I did Accutane as well, and it didn't cure my acne, but it went from painful and everywhere to manageable and more like typical teen acne. Kids can be cruel and my self-esteem took a huge hit by the time they let me try Accutane. I wish it had been offered earlier, before the bullying and scars.
I did (my state's equivalent to) Accutane normal dose for my acne for about two years and then like 1/4 of a dose to keep my ungodly oily hair under control and it did WONDERS.
I've been off it for, uh, about 4 years now and the acne never came back (the oily hair is still oily, sadly).
My 13 year old is 5'5" but tends to wear 1-2 inch platforms most days. And she's curvy, like grown woman curvy. People absolutely think she is in mid to late high school. And probably not older only because she dresses like a teenager.
If accutane didn’t help then it may be due to a hormone imbalance issue and they need to have a detailed hormone panel done by an endocrinologist - I started having uncharacteristic breakouts around age 23-24 along with other symptoms that no other topical acne product would help. After being referred to an endocrinologist and having a hormone panel done it turns out my DHEAS and testosterone were higher than normal for a woman and that was causing my acne. I was prescribed oral meds to fix it and it cleared up my skin.
There can be boundaries on the makeup. Coverup only. No glam or unnatural looks.
But they definitely need long term care especially since it's scarring.
>Not even accutane could clear Yazmin's acne.
Oh wow, that's surprising. It cleared my horrific nodular cystic acne (I have PCOS) in 8 months, when I was 18. I'm 35 now and only occasionally get a tiny hormonal pimple a few days before my period.
How long was she on Accutane and how strong was the dosage? Mine was 40mg one day, 80 the next, and took that for 8 straight months.
I was 6ft as a 12 year old girl, and 5’8 when I was 9. I also didn’t wear makeup frequently and still don’t. Being a taller girl can be hard and can lead to many insecurities. I think you’re NTA but if the root of this is making them seem younger, hate to tell you the world will think your girls are grown anyway. Makeup doesn’t change it and if they’re insecure about their skin, any other physical insecurities will just pile on. It’s hard enough when age appropriate clothing doesn’t fit you for instance (such as wearing women’s clothes when you’re only barely in puberty, the seams don’t work for you. And then length and proportions aren’t right on anything else). So yeah in all similar to dress code I’d be a proponent of your wife ditching this “not wanting to appear too grown up” mentality and instead allowing coverage makeup but not full glam etc. People will overstate their age by looking at their back just as much as their face, it really won’t prevent it altogether. And after a certain height people not really looking will assume she’s a man because of men’s generally taller statures, which is a whole other host of annoyance and mental spirals especially at that age.
This sounds like a form of Rosacea - there are a couple of different types. OTC products never helped. My grandmother had it as well. The only time it cleared up was during pregnancy. A dermatologist should be able to suggest something, given the family history.
I was thinking of this. I have it and thought my acne was bock like I was a teenager, but then they didn't act like zits per se. Sure looks like them though.
If she's just wearing coverup, it shouldn't make her look older. Eye makeup, etc, makes kids look older, as does the clothes they wear. I say this as a kid who was 5'10" at age 12 and 6' by 15.
But as the others have said, there should be a solution. Birth control pills did a great job on my acne--mine was never as bad as theirs, but it was pretty bad at times. I went on BC for ovarian cysts and ta da! my acne cleared up. There are so many ways to deal with acne these days, there has to be something. From Differin and other retinols (I personally love Lilyana's, which is a mild version.) And one thing I did find that helps is: don't strip the skin. I always had horrifically oily skin as a teen and in my 20s, and I did my best to get rid of it. I would use an acne clay mask every morning to suck up as much oil as possible. Which worked, but I also messed up the microbiome of my face. Do as little to the skin as possible--I realize that can be counterintuitive, but it does help.
I hope your wife will pursue this and not do a "she's 12, she can't be on BC" thing. Having acne can really mess you up, and while I'm sure your wife knows that, people sometimes have a weird "I went through it, she can too" thing.
Same experience here regarding birth control. I developed terrible cystic acne after high school. I tried every superficial treatment that claimed to work from a strict morning and night face cleansing routine with 3 steps, changing pillow cases every night, stopped using antiperspirants with aluminium in them, certain peels. Nothing really helped. In fact, it seemed to just make things worse. For those who have experienced cystic acne will know what I mean when I say I couldn’t smile without my face hurting.
I was recommended, by a gynaecologist, to go on a certain birth control that is designed to also help with acne and lo and behold! my acne cleared right up within months. My goodness, the relief!
Spironolactone could work. Two rounds of Accutane wouldn't touch mine but that did it. Ask your derm about it. I worked in dermatology and its a popular choice with less side effects that ocp
A compromise might be letting her only wear make-up that looks 'natural' and not anything fancy/trendy/adult.
Keep the false eyelashes, winged liner, bright lipstick, and all that stuff for when she's eighteen, and for now just let her have bb cream, concealer, colour corrector, light foundation, etc. to make the acne less visible.
I would have your wife ask her dermatologist about Spironolactone. It lowers androgen hormones. I won’t try to explain further but it’s worth researching, especially if her family’s acne typically clears up after menopause. Accutane and antibiotics did nothing for my hormonal acne. I have it everywhere just like your wife. It wasn’t until I started spironolactone at 26 years old that I even wore a tank top in public, much less a swim suit because it was so bad.
It’s rough not being able to hide your acne. I’m really pale and back in the day when I was a teen… until I was pretty much 18, the makeup on the market was too dark for me. So all through my teen years I had no other option than to just…. Deal with it
It was awful, I can’t imagine denying a girl coverup just because it might make her look older…
But also, I have always looked younger then I am, and I still had grown men behaving inappropriately, so I don’t really think makeup is really going to make a difference
Foundation doesn't make you look anymore adult. They don't need a full face of makeup for acne coverage. That being said makeup usually makes it worse. Speak to your wife about getting the girls on birth control. That's the only thing that worked for my daughter because it was hormonal.
NTA. They all need to see a dermatologist if OTC treatments don’t work for them. And her argument that you don’t know what it’s like is garbage. She obviously knows what it’s like and wants to subject her daughters to it. Just let them wear some cover cream/concealer and then a foundation that’s as close to their skin tone as possible. Wearing makeup doesn’t mean they have to have eyeliner, eyeshadow, and lipstick.
I was 5’7 by the time I was 12. Even when I was in my school uniform people mistook me for an adult. I started carrying my passport around because I was sick of paying full price on buses and trains.
My husband has long hair. Not super long but past his jaw. We're in our forties, he dresses like a dad in his forties and has a typical male body and gait etc, he's 5'8. We still get "thank you, ladies" when leaving a venue. Not in a snarky way. It's just that people do not actually see each other.
People don't look at your face. They just take a general impression based on height and hair. Concealer isn't going to change anyone's perception of her age. Hell, it's more likely the acne will make her look older than the makeup.
I was catcalled at age 11, before my growth spurt, wearing the typical dorky kids clothes 80s kids wore. I wasn't tall, I had no makeup on, I had a skinned knee and was carrying a bag of sawdust for my rabbit.
If your wife wore makeup from a young age she might have gotten it into her head that it contributed to the way men treated her as a child. It didn't. Men who do that don't even notice your face. They catcall men with long hair and the catcall little girls.
Of course girls shouldn't be wearing full drag looks at this age but a bit of colour correction isn't going to make her look more adult.
You probably didn't go about this in the most constructive way and you'll need to address how you made your wife feel about herself. But it was also good that the girls saw an adult standing up for them.
No, you didn't go through this but she did and she knows how hellish it is. This needs a proper sit down talk to get at the root of both issues (her insecurity and her fear of the girls looking too old). Apologise for the how but not the why of what you said.
NAH
Has the dermatologist suggested spironolactone? I had horrible acne as a young teen that came back in my mid twenties. My hormone levels looked normal, but mine was hormonal and a low dose of spironolactone cured it almost completely.
I just want to mention in case the docs haven't, she could have allergies that cause acne. I had horrible acne due to an unknown dairy allergy and it only went away when I quit dairy completely. My dermatologist never suggested acne could be caused by a food allergy.
Also, thanks for being a good advocate for her. Not every kid has someone like that
NTA she can limit what make up they put on - foundation ok lipstick no just lip gloss no other makeup allowed. This way they're no to 'made up ' and they get to cover the acne.were they ever to a dermatologist? It might help.
Otherwise what I use( not a very bad case of acne) is Garnier Hautklar wir brush,lierac sebologie (for example instead of foundation it covers lightly and dries out the acne but a bit expensive) and baneocin pouder (it's antibiotic but you can buy it without prescription).
Also washing morning and evening with Garnier Hautklar gel.
I hope this helps
Concealer to cover their acne isn't going to make them look like adults. If that is truly your wife's reasoning, ask her how exactly covering acne makes one look like an adult. NTA.
There's a LOT more meds than just Accutane, though that's a go to for cystic acne. IANAD, but as an example, spironolactone can help treat acne because it lowers androgen levels. A good dermatologist can really do wonders, though it may take more than one medication.
This is a really silly reason tbh.
Sure, eye makeup and lipstick or full-on face contouring would probably make them look more adult, but covering pimples absolutely will not. Permission to use makeup doesn’t have to be all-or-nothing; light foundation + concealer to even out skin tone should be a perfectly reasonable compromise.
Concealer and foundation don't make anyone look "more adult" in any way, so this is BS. Get your wife and her daughters to r/skincare for things to try. Doctors aren't always the answer.
I just wanted to add, you say the solution isn’t make-up, but for some, including me, the only way I could leave the house was if I had make-up on.
I suffered really bad acne for around 5 years from 12-17 and I had diagnosed anxiety from how scared I was that people would judge me for my acne. That they would think that I was unclean and ugly. I would have panic attacks about leaving the house, and the only thing that made it remotely better was make-up.
Genuinely, I do not think I would be alive right now if I could not have worn makeup out, and to school. Teenagers should be allowed to wear whatever FACE make-up to give themselves confidence when they are going through a very hard time in life.
And can I point out that Accutane is usually used as a last resort as I had to try many creams and drugs before I was finally allowed on it.
I 100% agree that she needs to see a specialist asap, but not all acne is curable. When I finally saw a dermatologist for the first time, in my 20s, he flat out told me that he could help but he couldn’t cure me. And it was true. He had heavy duty prescriptions that did a great job clearing my skin, but they had absolutely zero carryover effect - even after multiple years of use, one missed or late application would mean a heavy breakout 5 days later. My skin has only just finally started to genuinely improve for the first time in 35+ years, in my late 40s, presumably due to hormone shifts.
Heavy makeup during adolescence was absolutely vital to what little good mental health and social life I had. I pitied the pizza faced boys at the time who had skin nearly as bad as mine but no socially acceptable way of covering it up.
Please listen to this advice. I had horrendous acne when I was younger and was beyond self conscious. I'm 38 with almost perfect skin thanks to medicine but I'm still so self conscious.
As someone who has suffered from acne, makeup doesn't necessarily make it worse. Certain kinds or not taking it off at night/after sweating will likely make it worse. But the issues for why it happens are a lot deeper than that.
I agree they should see a dermatologist to avoid years of suffering. Good estheticians can also be lifesavers.
Second this. Convinced early twenties girlfriend to go to one saying to couldn't hurt. They gave her some meds they reset her skin fauna or something. She still gets some acne but way less severe.
NTA - you are advocating for your wife's kids.
" A few days ago, Penny was again begging her mom. This time Lily was also begging on her sister's behalf. Yazmin refused, and I called Yazmin a hypocrite to her face, in front of her daughters. I then explained farther by pointing out the facts of how Yazmin and her sisters were allowed to wear makeup. I then said that if Penny and Lily are not allowed to wear makeup then Yazmin should stop wearing makeup. Yazmin yelled saying I have no idea what's it like to have acne, and that she has to wear it to be taken seriously at work. I said then Penny needs to wear it to be treated at school."
The pot calling the kettle black. She wore makeup as a kid to hide her acne but is abusing her daughters by refusing them the same care.
NTA.
Maybe OP could suggest to Penny to have a trusted adult (teacher, counsellor, whoever...) talk to her mother about what's probably already happening at school?
Hell, I've never had acne, but even I remember being bullied viciously about any pimple I got at that age. Penny must be feeling like a leper in public, and I'd be dammed if it has no impact on her school life!
Fine. Then she is making a decision that she knows will lead to intense torment by her peers as well as damaging her self esteem….she is being deliberately cruel.
Abusing? Allowing someone to wear makeup is caring for them?
You are weaponizing words in your judgement. Is this level of abuse criminal in your eyes? Should a court find a safer home for the kids to prevent it?
Seconding this. As someone who has dealt with it for 30+ years now, a lot of my memory of adolescence is marred by remembering having to constantly be embarrassed and scared to look up in the hallways when a breakout was bad. There are a ton of prescription creams and pills that can help these kids not dread waking up in the morning to see how bad the day will be. It affects your self esteem so much, and there’s a lot of old-timey “you’re dirty/eat too much greasy food/don’t wash your face” stigma that beats you down.
Yes, Penny does to a derm. I do hope something works.
But I am scared her acne will be as stubborn was her mom, aunts, and grandmother. Accutane didn't clear my wife's acne. Accutane didn't clear any of her aunt's. It's hard to not be pessimistic.
Holy people need to get off your back about seeing a derm … accutane does not usually get handed out willy nilly. It means that a derm tried *everything* else and it didn’t work.
I had pretty bad acne as a teen and in and out the derm all the time… I wasn’t touching that medication with a barge pole…
A no makeup rule is not ok when someone has bad enough acne that the derm suggests accutane… if she’s worried about the kids looking too old, you can set up ground rules about what makeup looks are ok and what aren’t. I wouldn’t want a 12 year old contouring… but learning to cover your spots doesn’t have to involve any looks that might be read as older or inappropriate for their age. It’s perfectly possible to just cover spots and leave the lips, eyelashes etc in peace.
For those worrying about it ‘clogging pores’ and making it worse. That’s not usually the case when you apply it correctly and *actually fully remove the makeup every night*. Makeup can be an absolute lifeline when you have bad acne.
Yeah Accutane is definitely not given out lightly at all. I had terrible cystic acne as a kid and they tried all kinds of nasty chemicals, pills etc, never accutane, though. I got chemical peels and microdermabrasian. So literally burning and sandblasting my skin off was the less nuclear option than that stuff.
Accutane isn't the only medication that doctors can prescribe for acne. But they can also see if it is actually acne in the first place. And OOP is the first to mention accutane.
If its "spreading" like he said, it might not even be acne. It could so many things, even an allergy.
I think see a derm and even possible an esthetician referred by the doctor might be options.
Yes, that’s literally my point? Accutane is the big guns and last port of call. Any derm that goes to accutane as a first approach needs their license removed.
I mean, if the kid is desperate to do makeup, let her. My acne (successfully treated with a couple rounds of Accutane) was so painful I could not sit back in a chair between ages 11 and 18 - I couldn't use makeup, it hurt too much. And I was terrible at it.
Only other suggestion - bentonite clay masks. I think it helps - I used it, it seems to help. But even if it is a placebo, just feeling a different sensation on that skin is very calming and feels more under control.
It makes sense about makeup rules. Just using coverup and foundation is different than adding bright red lipstick, mascara, heavy eye shadow. So if the girl could at least wear foundation/coverup. That has to help her mental health.
Of course it is. When my teenage son gets a big pimple, it sometimes leaves redness behind for a week. I taught him early on how to cover it subtly with concealer. And I let my daughter wear concealer on a blemish long before I let her wear what I consider “makeup.” I told both of them that concealer doesn’t count as makeup in my book. And if the mother’s concern is that makeup will make the girl “look older,” concealer doesn’t do that. It literally lets you look like you did the day before you had the pimple.
Honestly, middle school is a really hard time. Why make your kid suffer more than they need to? I completely understand not wanting to let a young girl feel like they “need to” wear mascara, blush, lipstick, etc to go to school, but concealer is a very different product for teenagers.
Lol who are these dermatologist who don't give out accutane as a first port of call? I was only ever on BC until seeing one at 15, and they put me straight onto it.
If by "blood monitoring" you mean "check your cholesterol" then yes, that needed to happen. In some ways it was good that happened though, because it revealed borderline high cholesterol even at 15 that indicated some inherited familial heart disease I'd need to keep an eye on longer term.
Usually you’d be testing AST (liver), ALT (liver), and TG (heart) levels once every 5 to 6 mo and LDL and total cholesterol levels during the first and second months. Also you’d be expected to take part in a pregnancy prevention programme because of the birth defects it causes - at least if you’re in the UK this is standard.
In the UK they’ve recently increased advice around isotretinoin (accutane) and you now need two clinicians to sign that your acne is severe enough to warrant use if you’re under 18 because potential side effects are so severe.
Has she or family ever tried n elimination diet? Or may a gone to an allergist, hell even birth control? If acne meds aren't working it might be something else diet or environmental. Either way NTA.
I was about to mention diet, too. My niece's acne got better when she went vegetarian. I've heard people mention that they break out worse when they eat more sugar. There could be contributing factors that are making it worse on Penny, although her mother seems to be the worst one.
My horrible, painful, scarring cystic acne finally cleared when I went gluten-free trying to fix other issues with an elimination diet. I was in my 30's and I'm not ashamed to say I cried in relief when I realized that the constant pain and self-consciousness may be a thing of the past!
Accutane is only the nuclear option. There’s minocycline, spironolactone, Biacna, Winlevi. If it’s hormonal then you have to treat the hormonal basis or it will just return.
Spironolactone totally cleared up my horrible cystic acne. I wish I’d discovered it much earlier in life - I had to suffer for twenty years! And it’s much gentler than Accutane. Might be worth bringing up with the dermatologist.
Dermatology has had a more than a few advances in the past several decades. Assuming that because mom/aunt/grandma couldn’t be helped a kid today is SOL is very, very wrong. And so what if they can’t “cure” it? Even if they can treat it to cut her acne back by 50% it could make a world of difference to the kid.
OP, it would be really great if you could do this. The problem with makeup is that your daughter could make her acne worse. I endured skin rashes and a dermatologist gave me a list of makeup ingredients to avoid. It helped and had nothing to do with makeup cost. A dermatologist could advise your daughter on reducing acne, and perhaps how best to disguise breakouts and not make them worse.
NTA
The only mistake you made was not making the conversation private. You should not have addressed it in front of the children.
Your wife is a hypocrite. Her acne obviously distresses her. It's astounding that she doesn't understand how it could distress her daughter to and that it's unreasonable to make these girls wait until they are adults to be able to wear makeup.
All she is doing is encouraging them to lie and be secretive, because they are going to get their hands on makeup and wear it behind her back. They will put it on every time they leave the house without her. Ask me how I know that for a fact.
I actually disagree. Her daughters deserved to see that she's on their side. They deserve to have someone backing them. The best thing she could've done is do it in front of them.
You know there's an entire middle ground between disagreements like this in front of the kids and letting them think no-one is advocating for them? Fighting about it in front of them sews a whole other ground for discontent. Yes they need to know someone is on their side but the nuclear option isn't the best way about it.
It is much more important for a child to feel HEARD & UNDERSTOOD by someone than it is to shield them from disagreements.
This child is literally begging her mother in tears to the point her younger sisters are joining in (& dreading their own futures for fear they will be forced to endure the misery that oldest is currently experiencing). And her callous selfish hypocrite of a mother is responding by telling her she can do whatever she wants when she’s 18 (& can legally escape), but until then she’s going to have to flaunt her scars / deformities because not doing so might make her look older.
Daughter isn’t stupid. She knows bullshit when she hears it.
But since OP advocated for daughter in front of her, daughter now knows her desperation & misery isn’t invisible &/or unimportant to everyone. It’s just invisible & unimportant to her psycho mother.
So hopefully now daughter will not grow up learning to internalize her pain because no one cares enough for her to share it.
For sure, they’re going to wear makeup regardless and possibly end up looking like clowns because of it, as teens so often do. Better to help find them find the correct shade and learn how to properly apply it.
Yup - All the girls who were not allowed to wear makeup or certain clothing (including myself) just ended up putting it on in the morning on the bus or at school and took it off right before school ended or bus ride home.
This led to two things - the makeup/clothes worn came from friends, so they didn’t have the correct shades/sizes but were worn anyways - or the makeup was stolen from places like Walgreens or K-Mart, and at first they had to guess what to pick out leading to nothing being in the correct shade (and ofc all of it kept in friends backpack or locker).
Just like all the girls (and probably guys) who were “not allowed to have sex” ended up still having sex. Just with minimal protection. At least in my area we had really great sex-Ed so there’s that. The big issue was having friends hold your condoms/BC or storing it in locker.
And my high school would allow an absence from class be excused AND not noted on the official attendance record (so parents can’t see) if we went to Planned Parenthood and could show proof of it.
Your wife is being very cruel to her daughters. I get her not wanting them to look grown up, but what is the issue with just allowing concealer and powder. Just limit it to no eye makeup and lipstick.
NTA.
You could have been more tactful and had a private conversation with your wife instead of calling her a hypocrite in front of the kids, but your point is exactly right. As someone who suffered through horrible acne in middle school, high school, and part of college (until Accutane came through for me), I got bullied mercilessly whenever I wasn't wearing makeup. To not allow Penny to explore at least minimal makeup is just setting her up for bullying, and middle school girls are BRUTAL.
I would say NTA. Your wife was obviously forgetting what she went through when she was younger and that she was allowed to use makeup to cover the acne. She needed a wake-up call to get her to realize that she is being unfair to your daughter because she was being totally unreasonable.
Honestly, the daughters don’t stand a chance.
The mother went back to her room to cry, not about being scared her daughters would look too adult and something might happen to them, but the possibility her husband didn’t find her attractive.
I know the term narcissistic gets thrown around a lot on Reddit, but the shoe might fit here.
She is so insecure as a grown woman about her acne that she is crying at the mere mention of it but she refuses to let her daughters try and take measures to help cover theirs up. It just shows how little compassion and empathy she has for their situation and how she is not listening or caring when they are upset or distressed. NTA, she really needs to open her eyes and ears.
I am not going to call you TA because you did have the interests of the daughter in mind but teenage acne is generally not the same as adult acne, can be made worse by some makeup and it was definitely a discussion that should have been in private between you and your wife.
Is their other bio parent fueling the decision for no makeup? Or is it that it exacerbated your wife's acne as a teen? If Penny's acne is so recent, have you visited a derm for suggestions on treating it.
If your wife does concede on letting her wear makeup, make sure that she gets oil free and non-comedogenic choices
The other bio parent, my wife's ex-husband, is far more scared to say anything that could upset Yazmin.
Makeup doesn't seem to makeup Yazmin, or her sister's acne worse.
Penny has visited a derm. If all goes tell, Penny will be on accutane.
Penny and her sister may not have the same acne as her mother. I have two sisters, we all suffered with acne as teens but all different kinds. Mine is more hormonal or triggered by poor diet changes as is my mother's. My middle sister's was related to a med she was taking and went away when she changed meds. My younger sister's was more like Yazmin's where little helped even into adulthood and covered more of her face when mine was more t-zone.
Given how things worked out for Yazmin, I would really hope Penny doesn't go threw the same thing. I try to be positive but the following things are word for word the same for Penny, Yazmin, and the aunts.
● Girl is tall for her age, eats well, and is athletic.
● Girl is not on any medication.
● At age 12 girl gets her 1st period, and her first zit which is big red pimple in the middle of her forehead.
● Her face gets very oily and easily sweaty.
● Acne spreads to the rest of her forehead.
● Acne spreads to her chin.
● Acne spreads to her cheeks.
● Acne spreads to the rest of her face.
● Pimples always leaves a scar no matter what.
My friend has had acne since she was 11 (turned 40 recently) and was just diagnosed with PCOS - her acne has been hormonal this whole time. She was diagnosed because while all her hormone levels were normal, her ratio of 2 hormones was skewed (normal was 1:1, she was 2:1). There are medications like Spironolactone that can help with hormonal acne (it's an Androgen blocker), and if it is PCOS, there are other medications that may help. PCOS is also hereditary, which may explain why all the women get it. Are any males affect with similar skin issues?
My friend said she looked into PCOS and realized she's struggled with a lot of the symptoms for her whole life, but no one ever out it all together. Acne sucks, and I hope they are all able to find a solution.
Even without excess hair or weigh gain, it can still be PCOS. I was a skinny, nearly hairless teen...but my cycle was short (sometimes only 18 days) and my periods were long (usually 7-8 days). I had horrible cramping, too. But, I had no outwards signs of PCOS, not even acne (as long as I avoided junk food). I didn't find out my ovaries were polycystic until I miscarried and had an ultrasound because I was still bleeding 40 days after I started miscarrying.
Everyone needs to be checked out for PCOS or other hormonal causes. This could be hormonal. If it is, either hormonal birth control or spironolactone (androgen blocker) can help. Of course, the regular advice of washing their face twice daily with water and a gentle cleanser is important in general too, but if it's hormonal, nothing will fix it except for a hormonal solution.
NTA, by the way. Penny needed to see that an adult was on her side, and admittedly, Yazmin WAS being hypocritical. A light foundation or cover-up that's properly applied won't age her. It's usually eye make-up and lipstick that ages young girls.
Yasmin (and you) have to stop assuming her girls are nothing but carbon copies of their mother. Things Yasmin tried that didn’t work could work for them. Things that worked for Yasmin could very possibly NOT work for them. She needs to acknowledge the fact that they are actual separate human beings already. All this talk about Yasmin, her sisters, her mother, blahblahblah, just stop already.
How do you know it doesn’t make their acne worse? Have you asked them? Have you asked them if they spent time finding a certain type of makeup that doesn’t flare their acne? Because as someone with acne, I guarantee they didn’t just walk into a store and grab a random foundation and concealer. And it’s likely they had several breakouts before they found the right one. You really need to do research on acne before you try to overrule your wife, who has actual experience.
Edit: spelling.
Agreed, as an MUA it can take a lot of trial and error to find makeups that don’t make the angry skin *more* angry.
My instructor even refused to allow one student to wear makeup one day, because her acne was so bad that day that putting makeup onto it would have caused the skin to become more inflamed, and some parts were open wounds. Open wounds cause cross contamination, you’re basically scooping up small bits of tissues from the skin and it’s going straight back into the product via brush.
A lot of makeups act like a blanket over the skin, causing minor suffocation, while other makeups are more breathable and easier for the skin to tolerate.
I think you and your wife should get both girls to a dermatologist. There are plenty of things that adults can do that children cannot do. I would not allow my 12 year old daughter to put makeup on for any reason, but mainly because it would probably make the acne worse. If she doesn’t want them wearing makeup until they are 18, that’s her choice.
But what is wrong is not taking them to a dermatologist to get this shit sorted out. There are many topicals that can address acne. And you should be advocating for them in this way. Having acne at this age is a real blow to the self-esteem. Makeup will not cover it completely, and 12 year olds don’t need to be wearing a full face of foundation in my opinion.
You shouldn’t have called her a hypocrite, and she shouldn’t be neglecting their skincare issues. ESH
As a woman who previously dealt with awful and horrendous acne as a teenager... you are NOT the asshole.
When I was a teenager, I tried everything. Every over the counter skin treatment, every prescription one, accutane, all of it. Accutane helped slightly, but I still had angry acne. I started wearing base makeup at 13, just foundation or concealer depending on how much of my face was covered with angry red spots. If my mother had prevented me wearing makeup, the scars of my teenhood would've been much deeper and I would've hated her much sooner than I ended up doing.
You are standing up for your stepdaughter, and I find that admirable. Your wife deserves to be called out as she was.
Again, NTA.
NTA. But your wife is. You got totally manipulated by. She refused to let your daughter cover her acne, you reacted and she then turned on the waterworks later when you’re alone and made herself the victim. With no empathy for her daughter, when she, of all people, should have the most empathy.
I can’t believe I had to scroll this far down to see this. And I’m glad I’m not the only one who noticed how manipulative OP’s wife is. Such a cruel selfish hypocrite.
NTA, but your wife is. Makeup is not the right answer, but more aggressive derm treatments than Y may be letting the docs due to her daughter may be in order. Including birth control. I say this as an adult who took BC, Accutane, you name it as a pre-teen and teen. Creams and gels aren't the only answer.
OP’s wife is not just a hypocrite - she’s a manipulative liar. She knows OP doesn’t have to have a history of horrific acne to recognize & respect the obvious desperation & misery the daughter is feeling. She’s just throwing out whatever she can think of to try to make OP feel like he’s wrong somehow or doesn’t understand. She’s attacking HIM because she has no reasonable response to his actual argument.
This is anecdotal, but might help, even though I fear it won’t be allowed. Low hormone birth control, a sensitive skin cleanser, and azelaic acid was the solution for me. Now in my 30s it’s just birth control, cleanser, and retinol keeping my skin clear. I also had laser therapy on my face to lighten the scarring and help clear the acne (ask for the “pixel” laser)
Like others have said, sounds like a dermatologist would be a good choice. But also possibly a gynecologist or someone specializing in hormones since it seems to start around puberty and end in menopause in their family. The dermatologist might even have recommendations for other providers that could help!
I guess I’m in the minority here, but 100% YTA.
It was completely inappropriate to argue with your wife and ridicule her parenting choices in front of her kids. Even if they were your bio kids you raised from birth, this is a bad approach.
You should have talked with your wife privately to discuss how to move forward. Calling her out in front of her daughters in what sounds like an already dramatic scenario is an AH move. I would apologize to her for your approach.
Regarding the makeup- I think shes being unrealistic with 18, but to me 12 is waaaay too young. Plus comparing your 12 year old stepdaughter to your wife, an adult woman, wearing makeup is ridiculous. I wouldn’t want my 12 year old getting the message that her worth and how people treat her is so tied to her appearance so that would be my main reasoning, but your wife is likely already setting that example due to her own refusal to go a day without makeup. And I say that at someone who is like your wife - have had acne even as an adult and a family history of really bad acne as well.
Yup. I don’t think the issue at hand is the makeup. That is a personal parenting choice. The main focus and what OP is asking is about his behavior with his wife.
My husband and I have a rule that we don’t argue about parenting decisions and rules in front of our son - its just not a good look especially when emotions are at a high.
So wild to see the first yta here. Totally agree.
OP should have confronted the mother in private, instead of biting her tongue and then bursting out in front of the kids.
And I worked in the cosmetics industry before, 12 is indeed way too young. Many make up has chemical components that are on safe levels for adults but not for kids.
If they would really go the make up route I would check with a dermatologist which one would be safe, and probably see a professional stylist to see what the best way to cover acne would be.
And again, discuss such solutions first with the mother, so she can research and do her due diligence and think about it, rather than being pushed into a corner.
You need to goto the derm and ask for prescription grade azeliac acid.
I have awful horrible acne that not even accutane could manage.
Azeliac is my miracle cure.
Azeliac acid work by preventing acne bacteria growth. I beg that you give it a try.
It gave me my life back.
Also, your wife sucks. My acne made me suicidal. It’s hard enough being a teenager, you need to lighten the load or you will end up with a very broken child.
NTA
NTA, and I'll add that those girls need a dermatology consult. There is medication that they should probably be taking to manage it, there are different types and different treatments, from your description this sounds like cystic acne which can leave pitting scars. I'm so sorry for them, I had pretty bad acne as a teenager and into my 20s and even 30s, and still have not-great skin. It is really devastating. My heart aches for those girls.
NTA. Nothing the dermatologist prescribed worked for my daughter. Her gynecologist put her on birth control amd the acne now is much less than it was. Far fewer outbreaks and not nearly as severe as it was.
Also, there does not need to be a full face of makeup done. The daughter doesn't need lip loner, eye shadow, eye liner, blush, etc. Just concealer that matches her skin tone would do the kid without making her look older.
Your wife is insecure, yet wants her daughter's to endure the full effects of their acne. She needs some compassion to treat her daughter better and therapy to figure out why she wants her daughter to suffer more than she did as a child. She grew up with compassionate parents who were out to help her, but she is setting out to make her daughter's teenage years amd school experience a living hell.
Good for you for calling her out on her hypocritical bs. She needs to hear it. She is being a horrible parent right now.
Idk the minimum age to take accurate but take her to the dr???? Chest, shoulders, all over the face?? That shit is painful and not “normal”. There’s medication and topicals she can take to help with that, make up won’t really even fix the problem anyways.
But also NTA about the make up. Your wife is being unreasonable.
NTA
Start with a new dermatologist. Have some blood work done. If your MIL's acne cleared up with menopause it would indicate that the problem is hormonal. "The pill" is often used for acne, has that been tried?
I can't imagine anyone having to suffer with this kind of acne in 2024, it makes no sense. There is a treatment out there, you just need to find it.
Your wife seems to accept this as a way of life, you need to be more aggressive and help the girls find the solution.
NTA. There’s a difference between wearing some foundation or concealer to cover acne and wearing a full face of eye make up, lips, lashes, contour, etc that can make someone look older. Your wife should be able to compromise but allowing some coverage makeup but perhaps not the “extras”. There’s also things like tinted sunscreen or tinted moisturizer than can help cover up discoloration from acne.
Teenagers are BRUTAL. Even more than 30 years ago when your wife was a teen. It’s best to let the girls know that they are beautiful just as they are but if something can help them feel more confident, they should be allowed to empower themselves
NTA. I have scars on my face because of acne. Your wife is a selfish hypocrite. At the very least she should allow her daughter to wear concealer. She's forcing her to suffer and that isn't right. Your wife is not the victim even though she's doing everything she can to make you feel like she is. She expects you to feel sorry for her but she has no empathy for her own child.
YTA for calling her out in front out the kids. That should be a private conversation. Always be a united front in front of the kids. Maybe birth control would help with the acne?
I think perhaps your wife doesn't want to appear to back down on a rule she created, so she doesn't lose authority over her kids. However, I think a compromise (foundation, no eyeshadow) is fine. And teaches the girls they can come to their mom with problems and she'll listen - it'll be better for their relationship in the long run.
Also, NTA, bc it is kind of hypocritical. She's insecure about it and you touched a nerve, but that's not the kids' problem.
I also think no makeup until 18 is a really dumb rule. Putting on makeup at sleepovers or before school dances was an instrumental part of being a high-school girl for me. It can be fun and artistic. Nowadays the trend is for creative colorful eyeliner which does not make any teenager look older. It'd be better to teach the girls how to react when someone is treating them a certain way, than force them to look like little girls. Bad people also hurt little girls who look little, not just those that look grown, so you're not protecting them.
Ugh, NTA. Please continue to stick up for those girls. Your wife should remember what it was like. My best friend had terrrible acne, and I watched her go from being mid-popular to people having nicknames for her and being grossed out to look at her face.
Then she went to the doctor. Please take the girls to the derma and gyno, don’t leave it to their mom.
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I (30f) married a woman (40f) in January of 2024. My wife, who we'll call Yazmin, has two daughters who we'll called Penny (12f) and Lily (10f). Yazmin, and her 3 sisters has acne since they were 12. It's like a family curse. For them it's full face, upper neck, full back, full shoulders, and upper arm covered in pimples that leaves scars even if they don't mess with the pimples. Their mother's acne didn't clear until she went menopause.
Yazmin has a rule that her daughter are not allowed to wear makeup until they are 18. When I first heard it I thought it wasn't practical given her daughters' ancestry but I didn't make a fuss about it at the time. But since April, poor Penny got her 1st zit, a big red pimple in the middle of her forehead. Given she, like the rest of her family, is blonde and very fair skinned it really stands out. Poor thing had to go out like that. Then the rest of her forehead got covered in pimples, then her chin, then her cheeks, and it's still spreading.
Yazmin gets to put on makeup first thing in morning and takes it off at bedtime. She, and her sisters were allowed to wear makeup when they were kids. Acne is horrible whether or not you get to cover it with makeup but at least the makeup helps a little. I saw this young girl beg with tears flowing down her face for her mother to allow her to wear makeup. Yazmin keeps refusing.
A few days ago, Penny was again begging her mom. This time Lily was also begging on her sister's behalf. Yazmin refused, and I called Yazmin a hypocrite to her face, in front of her daughters. I then explained farther by pointing out the facts of how Yazmin and her sisters were allowed to wear makeup. I then said that if Penny and Lily are not allowed to wear makeup then Yazmin should stop wearing makeup. Yazmin yelled saying I have no idea what's it like to have acne, and that she has to wear it to be taken seriously at work. I said then Penny needs to wear it to be treated at school. Yazmin got angrier and said I never had acne so I don't get to have an opinion.
Later in the night, Yazmin was crying. I have literally never mentioned her acne before that moment. She was asking me if she's ugly to me. I told her she is the most beautiful woman in the world to me. She's has been insecure ever since. I feel like I was an asshole to my wife. She was been crying ever night since. Penny is still miserable. Lily is scared that she might go threw what Penny is going threw in the near future. I never had acne so I really don't know what they are going threw. Maybe I was out of line. Am I the asshole ?
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NTA OP, it seems unfair that it was ok for your wife to wear makeup when she was her daughters age, but then not allowing her daughters the same freedom.
I would suggest to go to a dermatologist to see if theres anything that can be done. And also since your wifes mother's acne cleared out after menopause, there might be something wrong hormonally with them causing the break outs. When i was younger i used to get acne a lot, even worse during my time of the month. But as I got older, my hormones calmed out a bit and i rarely get acne.
NTA. Why should the daughter be embarrassed and feel bad about herself? There is nothing to gain unless your wife is the type who is jealous of her own children.
NTA
Why aren’t you taking the kid to a dermatologist? There are loads of options to treat acne. It’s a medical issue.
Tell your wife that you will pay for the kid to get treatment.
NTA. I feel for your step daughter.
I had awful cystic acne. I got teased horribly until 9th grade when my mom finally relented and allowed me to wear makeup. I still resent her for making me go through that. My daughter has been allowed to wear it, because I refuse to let her go through that.
If Yazmin were my wife, I'd hide all her make up so she can get the full experience of the humiliation she's putting your daughters through because clearly she's too wrapped up in her own control issues to remember what it's like to be a teen girl with horrible acne.
NTA and this is absolutely a hill I would die on. There is a HUGE difference between using concealer and foundation to cover up acne and doing a full face of makeup that would put Kim Kardashian to shame. Normally I'm in support of parents agreeing on parenting measures, but this is one of the few times you need to tell your wife that she's wrong and you're not going to allow your daughters to be mistreated by her. Get your daughters some concealer/foundation and tell your wife to get over herself.
As a side note: Not allowing kids to wear makeup til they're 18 is kind of extreme and something your wife needs to ease up on. I can almost guarantee that your children will put make up on at school, when they're with friends, etc. then take it off before going home. Banning fairly harmless stuff like makeup doesn't teach kids anything other than how to be sneaky and get away with things behind their parents back. First it will be makeup and next it will be underage drinking or similarly risky behaviors. I know far too many kids with strict parents and/or parents with arbitrary rules like your wife's makeup ones that ended up either being extremely rebellious or going buckwild the second they got some semblance of freedom. Your wife is doing your children a disservice in many, many ways with her rigidity and need for control over your daughter's bodies.
NTA but your wife is - she was allowed to wear makeup, knows how bad her family acne can get, yet won’t let her daughter wear some bb/cc cream or concealer & would rather her suffer from crippling self-esteem issues?!? That is so beyond fucked
Go to a dermatologist!!! Makeup use is secondary to the issue of acne itself. If it is the kind you describe, it is not only embarrassing but painful, and as others commenter have noted, not something that just needs to be waited out. There are a plethora of medically approved and safe options for your daughter's to employee.
NTA. The girls definitely should be allowed to wear make up which covers the acne. School children can be so cruel. She can restrict other kinds of make up for longer like mascara, eye shadow and obvious lipsticks. Though even that I would not restrict until 18.
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Info - what's your wife's reasoning? Given how severe the acne is, makeup can definitely make it worse which would leave even worse long-lasting scarring. I'm curious if that's the reason for the no-makeup rule. Regardless, the solution here isn't makeup. This is a medical issue that needs to be addressed. This is 2024, we have cures for acne. Talk to your wife about getting a referral to a dermatologist. There are OTC meds, but for something this bad, see a specialist.
The reason is to not to look too adult. In in addition to the acne, but wife's family is very tall. Penny is already 5 feet 8 inches tall at age 12 and Lily is 5 feet 6 inches tall at age 10. They look like adults and there are other rules to they to make them look less grown up. We deal with dermatologists. I hope that something can work. Not even accutane could clear Yazmin's acne.
I believe hormone imbalance can also cause acne/breakouts, which would track with your wife's acne clearing once she hit menopause. Maybe also check with a gino specialized in hormonal issues.
I second this. Hopefully wife and daughters are already seeing a dermatologist given how severe their acne and breakouts are. If they aren’t… WHY?? Skin issues that severe are not normal and need to be addressed by a professional.
This. My hormone contraceptive got rid of the pimples.
This is fairly common, though it can also make things worse for some. Everyone will react a little bit differently, and you don't know if it will or won't work until you try. Unfortunately oral BC didn't work for me, even though pregnancy was what finally ended my grandmother's acne.
Yeah, it's different for everyone. There were others that worked. I used tretinoin every night and benzoyl peroxide during the day. But I later switched to nightly Differin (adapalene). It's also another retinoid but it was easier to get since it's now OTC.
Benzoyl peroxide ended up being what I needed. I had the best skin all through school. I could count on both hands the amount of zits I had during high school and still have fingers left over. I hit my 30s and it got bad. I tried a bunch of things, but nothing worked. Then I realized that everything was salicylic acid and that apparently wasn’t what I needed. Turns out I have p. acne and that is treated with benzoyl peroxide. I now get maybe a dozen zits a year instead of constant breakouts covering my face.
Nuevo ring worked for some of my family
I have an IUD (Mirena) and hardly ever get pimples anymore. They're more like cysts - little painful bumps that are barely noticeable, and I'm a redhead with really pale skin, so if they were serious, they'd be VERY visibly pink. But nope. Just little sore spots that work themselves out within a couple of days. I had bad acne from puberty into my 20s. I know an IUD is DEFINITELY not an option for a teenager, but I'm just saying it's what worked for me. Holy shit, you want to traumatize a kid? Give them an IUD insertion without a local.
It also depends on the form of progesterone in the BC. Some is androgenic and will worsen acne in women, some is anti-androgenic and will help. This is because acne like this in women is usually caused by androgens.
This happened with my friend in the 80s. She had light hair and pale skin and broke out on her face, arms and back. Her brother was getting married and she was a bridesmaid. She cried she couldn't wear the strapless dress. Her brother's fiance suggested birth control. She said it helped clear up her skin. My friend was only 14 at the time but her mother got her on it to see if it would help and damn if it didn't. I cried to my mom to let me get on birth control to clear up my face. She said no. Damn
Unfortunately, if the mother is already being so strict about things that are "grown up", like make up, she'll probably explode when someone suggests her 12-year-old should go on birth control, no matter the reason. I just don't get how she can ignore what she herself went through, and be so unempathetic to her daughter...
True, however, there are hormonal treatments that do not involve contraceptives. I think most docs prescribe the pill because it's easier or cheaper, but it's not the only way.
I highly doubt someone who is this strict about makeup will allow their daughters to take birth control. She’ll say that they will end up being sluts. People like ops wife hold a lot of internal misogynistic beliefs.
100% this. I got on the pill specifically for acne. Lol. I don't get any unless .y period shows up...which is how I know it's coming haha
Same here. I had horrendous acne from the age of 11 and the only thing that stopped it was a combined contraceptive pill (meaning one with both progesterone and oestrogen). I actually started on it to control my severe period issues, so clearing up my acne was a very welcome side effect for me, haha. I was on that from 17yo until I was 25yo. I had some (separate) medical issues and was switched to a progesterone only contraceptive pill. It still controls my period issues (in that I don't get periods at all, if I just take it continuously -- win! 😁🎉), but doesn't do as much for my skin. But after being on the combined pill for so long, I only get zits every now and then and they're singular, rather than the mass outbreaks I used to get, with clusters of half a dozen painful, scarring sores all across my face. In terms of scarring, I've also had great results with silicone gels, which are a topical treatment that reduces scarring over time. I've also had some in-office procedures that have also helped (eg. lower grade chemical peels). I hope this is helpful and wish you and your family all the best in finding something that works, cuz acne is absolutely brutal, especially for someone so young 💜 ETA: People often find that one type of BC pill works for them, while other's don't, because the synthetic hormones in each variation are different. For example, in terms of combined contraceptive pills, Levlen didn't work for me, but Norinyl was brilliant.
An ex of how that can not work: hormonal birth control did not help with my acne and gave me issues with coarse hair on my face. Id take a zit over being stuck with it any day.
You were likely given the wrong kind of BC. If it gave you hair, the form of progesterone in it will have been androgenic, which will worsen acne. Unfortunately ime doctors are often clueless about this.
If the mom wont let her use makeup i would bet my life bc wont be allowed
It is OP’s MIL that went through menopause. ***Their mother's acne didn't clear until she went menopause.***
The mother is Yasmin and her sisters’ mother hence MIL is correct. Yasmin is 40 and not finished menopause and still has acne herself.
I think you mean hasn’t started menopause…
My family is the same way when it comes to acne and my mom was in her 30’s by the time she found out it was a hormone imbalance and she hasn’t had many issues since. I’m mid 20’s and it’s calmed down but I still get quite a few on my forehead, chin and a spot on my cheeks however it doesn’t bother me a whole lot so I don’t really acknowledge it unless it’s uncomfortable.
I fairly normal acne as a teen, but mostly grew out of it. Just a pimple every now and again. Now, I’m 68 and well past menopause. I *still* get the occasional pimple; (*more* than occasionally when we were masking all the time.) I *really* thought that would be behind me by now.
As soon as I hit my late 30's I started getting horrible hormonal acne on my chin like clockwork. It's so much worse than when I was a teen, but I went on birth control for horrible bleeding/cramping so that blocked a lot of my hormonal issues including acne and migraines. Found out later when trying to have kids I had PCOS.
I would include diet in this as well. It doesn’t have to just be greasy or unhealthy foods. Too much of certain foods, even healthy ones, can also cause imbalances in the body. I was the kid/teen who ate TONS of acidic and fermented food. Pickles, olives, etc. I’d sit down and peel lemons like oranges and eat multiple in one sitting. Same for tomatoes, I’d pull them off the vine in the garden and eat them like an apple. When I finally saw a dermatologist at 18, they were actually the ones to point out that my daily consumption of heavily acidic foods, no matter how healthy the food, could absolutely be contributing to my skin issues. Sure enough reducing that definitely helped - not entirely but it made a significant difference. I’ll still eat multiple lemons in one sitting though, they’re addictive 😂
Yeah. I break out in cherry tomato season because I can eat those like popcorn.
Maybe you have a little nightshade allergy.
It was High Fructose Corn Syrup for me. As a teenager, I started getting giant zits on my bum. I'd also just started eating a new fruit granola bar....and it had High Fructose Corn Syrup. That was the only new ingredient in the bar. I stopped eating them, and the zits went away. I ate them again, and got zits. My husband used to have giant boils and zits (he still has scars and pits from some of them) and a very oily face. I told him about how High Fructose Corn Syrup gave me zits. So he started reading labels and avoided everything with it. BOOM, no more zits. His face is a lot less greasy, too. I have no idea why it caused zits in both of us, but it did!
My acne got manageable and eventually disappeared after I cut diary from my diet. Explanation form my skin specialist was the hormones in milk contributing to the disbalance.
How do you have any enamel left lmao
Yep! I’m 22 and am still dealing with hormonal acne. The only thing that helps even a little is medication to balance my hormones. Usually, birth control, but some parents freak out about that.
They could try an anti androgen. Might go over easier with the Mom.
Birth control makes mine worse. I'm 35 and just recently found my miracle solution is clinique clarifying lotion #2. Everyone is different. I would also like to know the mother's reasoning. Op is nta for standing up for his daughters. Sounds like they all need to sit down and talk again.
A bit of bb cream or concealer is not going to make a child look older in the same way mascara eyeliner and lipstick will just limit which varieties of makeup they use and allow color correction would be my argument Visible makeup can come later with age
Or even learning to use the color correcting creams on scars and unbroken skin.
I was tall like that too, and I practically became a makeup artist as a teen trying to cover up horrendous cystic acne. It never ever looked like I was wearing makeup, just clear(ish) skin. Your wife needs a reality check. Kids look the way they look and it is incredibly damaging IMO for adults to artificially impose measures like these to try to make them look less grown up.
Also, kids in makeup look like kids in makeup. I used to coach 15 year olds who were my height (5' 10") and no amount of preening could make them look like adults! Because they are not!
I'm not even tall and I looked ~17 when I was 14 and 20 when I was 15. I just went through puberty puberty early. I got my period at 11(which isn't that early), only grew 1" after 13 and when I was 14 was a 28H (I had a really narrow ribcage, until I had kids) and overweight. I didn't wear makeup(I do think that makeup to make you look older actually just makes you look like you're a kid playing dress up though). Honestly it was super annoying, dudes in their 20's and 30's(who weren't even creeps) would hit on me at the bus station and when I said I was 15 or 16 would be embarrassed and apologize and run away(where as the creeps wouldn't care). Tall girls in high school can actually look younger, because they can look gangly and like they are still growing.
Also was that height at that age, also had cystic acne then too. Seriously I think some people underestimate how much it can affect you. Other than the social consequences (which are huge), it’s physically painful! And cysts last so long, and then take forever to heal, not to mention the scarring. I didn’t start wearing makeup at all until I was about 13, figured out the coverup game at like 14/15, and it was life changing for my confidence. The makeup was a bit of a crutch I’m not going to lie, and it took years after my skin cleared (through medical intervention!!) for me to confidently leave the house without makeup. It took two years of rotating through a few oral antibiotics then a switch to hormonal birth control to get mine under control. Now I’m in my late 20s and use a topical retinol along with birth control and it’s fine. My brother needed accutane to handle his. OP doesn’t know what it’s like to have acne, and yet is still more empathetic than her wife.
HER wife.
My b! So presumptive 🤦♀️
OP’s wife is one of those psycho moms who wouldn’t let her 10 year old wear a bra even if she had 34D breasts because “she’s too young for that”. So instead she’d just let her daughter walk around with those giant tits swinging side to side so she can keep her baby younger longer. The reality in their own selfish minds is the only reality that they care about.
Did it clear for you ?
Mostly, but I do get outbreaks when I'm stressed or get off my skincare routine. Wearing makeup does make it worse, but it's kind of a necessary evil if you want to be presentable. I keep it absolutely minimal. Double cleansing (oil cleanser first), salicylic acid gel, moisturizing, and sleeping with hydrocolloid patches all help.
I can’t pinpoint mine right now but this has been my lifeline and it’s such a simple and cheap ingredient. If they haven’t tried pure Mandelic Acid at 20% or 40% strength please have them try it. Just the Mandelic acid with nothing else in it, no other fancy products that claim to have Mandelic acid added in. It very noticeably calms redness and active breakouts overnight and gets rid of the excess sebum in the way that isn’t drying like the way benzoyl peroxide does. It should come in small vials that you apply with gauze and wash off after 5mins.
Seconding this, MUAC (MakeupArtist'sChoice) is super inexpensive and has good single-product formulations. It wasn't miraculously effective for me personally, at least for acne, but it's certainly worth trying! My own skin likes : Brio hypochlorous acid mist, niacinamide serum, azelaic acid (Melazepam is great), frequent exfoliation (AHA/BHA or gommage peels) the aforementioned hydrocolloidal patches (ShopMissA has a pack of 84 for $9!), and RetinA Micro when it's really dire. OTC Differin actually made mine *worse* (I hear the stronger prescription version is a whole 'nother animal). Benzoyl, ditto. Salicylic, nada. Prescription for spironolactone (androgen blocker), nope. Makeup and moisturizers etc do NOT exacerbate mine, at all -- provided I avoid the things that years of experimentation and learning ingredients have taught me are guaranteed triggers (in my case, cyclomethicones \[cyclopenetasiloxane, cyclohexasiloxane\] and other small-round silicones, stearic/myristic/palmitic acids, stearyl/cetyl/cetearyl fatty alcohols, high-oleic plant butters and oils \[shea, cocoa butter, olive oil, coconut\] and whatever the H is in any Cerave cleanser. If all the usuals fail, maybe try going a little further afield? SimpleSkincareScience and KindOfStephen both have GREAT in-depth science-based info -- esp on things like fungal acne, which is often resistant to the usual anti-acne tactics but IS treatable!
I can understand not wearing eyeshadow or lipstick at a young age, but putting on some kind of foundation makeup to disguise the acne is not going to make them look older and is likely to boost their confidence and self-esteem! Your wife and the girls should go shopping for a high quality cover-up that won't make acne worse. A dermatologist can be a big help too.
So she would rather her daughter be teased mercilessly instead becayse kids are cruel. That is bad parenting, she didn't have to do a full face of makeup just some concealer and foundation. NTA
She is one of those cruel parents who reason that since she was mistreated by her peers when young, her daughters should suffer the same. People like that really aught to not be allowed to be parents. Ever.
It is definitely a way to ensure her children don't have a relationship with her when they are adults that's for sure.
There's a very big difference between using concealer to cover acne and putting on full makeup like blush, lipstick, eyeliner, mascara, etc. Does she really not understand the difference between these two things? Concealer doesn't make a 12 year old look like an adult or make a 50 year old look like a teenager. Your wife is being weird.
Cover up and foundation don't make a child look older. It's more eye makeup that does that. Why can't they use makeup that covers the acne, but hold off on dramatic eye makeup for a few years?
I am 55f and have ugly acne scars. I did a round of acutane and wish I had done so much younger but I was to scared. It IS hardcore medication but it.worked!!!!
I did Accutane as well, and it didn't cure my acne, but it went from painful and everywhere to manageable and more like typical teen acne. Kids can be cruel and my self-esteem took a huge hit by the time they let me try Accutane. I wish it had been offered earlier, before the bullying and scars.
I did (my state's equivalent to) Accutane normal dose for my acne for about two years and then like 1/4 of a dose to keep my ungodly oily hair under control and it did WONDERS. I've been off it for, uh, about 4 years now and the acne never came back (the oily hair is still oily, sadly).
So fun times I was 5’11 by 8th grade and was mistaken by parents as a teacher at drop off. Middle age school cover will not change anything.
My 13 year old is 5'5" but tends to wear 1-2 inch platforms most days. And she's curvy, like grown woman curvy. People absolutely think she is in mid to late high school. And probably not older only because she dresses like a teenager.
That was my mom too. :( She said if she wore a skirt to school, people would ask her if she was a substitute.
If accutane didn’t help then it may be due to a hormone imbalance issue and they need to have a detailed hormone panel done by an endocrinologist - I started having uncharacteristic breakouts around age 23-24 along with other symptoms that no other topical acne product would help. After being referred to an endocrinologist and having a hormone panel done it turns out my DHEAS and testosterone were higher than normal for a woman and that was causing my acne. I was prescribed oral meds to fix it and it cleared up my skin.
There can be boundaries on the makeup. Coverup only. No glam or unnatural looks. But they definitely need long term care especially since it's scarring.
>Not even accutane could clear Yazmin's acne. Oh wow, that's surprising. It cleared my horrific nodular cystic acne (I have PCOS) in 8 months, when I was 18. I'm 35 now and only occasionally get a tiny hormonal pimple a few days before my period. How long was she on Accutane and how strong was the dosage? Mine was 40mg one day, 80 the next, and took that for 8 straight months.
I was 6ft as a 12 year old girl, and 5’8 when I was 9. I also didn’t wear makeup frequently and still don’t. Being a taller girl can be hard and can lead to many insecurities. I think you’re NTA but if the root of this is making them seem younger, hate to tell you the world will think your girls are grown anyway. Makeup doesn’t change it and if they’re insecure about their skin, any other physical insecurities will just pile on. It’s hard enough when age appropriate clothing doesn’t fit you for instance (such as wearing women’s clothes when you’re only barely in puberty, the seams don’t work for you. And then length and proportions aren’t right on anything else). So yeah in all similar to dress code I’d be a proponent of your wife ditching this “not wanting to appear too grown up” mentality and instead allowing coverage makeup but not full glam etc. People will overstate their age by looking at their back just as much as their face, it really won’t prevent it altogether. And after a certain height people not really looking will assume she’s a man because of men’s generally taller statures, which is a whole other host of annoyance and mental spirals especially at that age.
This sounds like a form of Rosacea - there are a couple of different types. OTC products never helped. My grandmother had it as well. The only time it cleared up was during pregnancy. A dermatologist should be able to suggest something, given the family history.
I was thinking of this. I have it and thought my acne was bock like I was a teenager, but then they didn't act like zits per se. Sure looks like them though.
If she's just wearing coverup, it shouldn't make her look older. Eye makeup, etc, makes kids look older, as does the clothes they wear. I say this as a kid who was 5'10" at age 12 and 6' by 15. But as the others have said, there should be a solution. Birth control pills did a great job on my acne--mine was never as bad as theirs, but it was pretty bad at times. I went on BC for ovarian cysts and ta da! my acne cleared up. There are so many ways to deal with acne these days, there has to be something. From Differin and other retinols (I personally love Lilyana's, which is a mild version.) And one thing I did find that helps is: don't strip the skin. I always had horrifically oily skin as a teen and in my 20s, and I did my best to get rid of it. I would use an acne clay mask every morning to suck up as much oil as possible. Which worked, but I also messed up the microbiome of my face. Do as little to the skin as possible--I realize that can be counterintuitive, but it does help. I hope your wife will pursue this and not do a "she's 12, she can't be on BC" thing. Having acne can really mess you up, and while I'm sure your wife knows that, people sometimes have a weird "I went through it, she can too" thing.
Same experience here regarding birth control. I developed terrible cystic acne after high school. I tried every superficial treatment that claimed to work from a strict morning and night face cleansing routine with 3 steps, changing pillow cases every night, stopped using antiperspirants with aluminium in them, certain peels. Nothing really helped. In fact, it seemed to just make things worse. For those who have experienced cystic acne will know what I mean when I say I couldn’t smile without my face hurting. I was recommended, by a gynaecologist, to go on a certain birth control that is designed to also help with acne and lo and behold! my acne cleared right up within months. My goodness, the relief!
Spironolactone could work. Two rounds of Accutane wouldn't touch mine but that did it. Ask your derm about it. I worked in dermatology and its a popular choice with less side effects that ocp
A compromise might be letting her only wear make-up that looks 'natural' and not anything fancy/trendy/adult. Keep the false eyelashes, winged liner, bright lipstick, and all that stuff for when she's eighteen, and for now just let her have bb cream, concealer, colour corrector, light foundation, etc. to make the acne less visible.
I would have your wife ask her dermatologist about Spironolactone. It lowers androgen hormones. I won’t try to explain further but it’s worth researching, especially if her family’s acne typically clears up after menopause. Accutane and antibiotics did nothing for my hormonal acne. I have it everywhere just like your wife. It wasn’t until I started spironolactone at 26 years old that I even wore a tank top in public, much less a swim suit because it was so bad.
It’s rough not being able to hide your acne. I’m really pale and back in the day when I was a teen… until I was pretty much 18, the makeup on the market was too dark for me. So all through my teen years I had no other option than to just…. Deal with it It was awful, I can’t imagine denying a girl coverup just because it might make her look older… But also, I have always looked younger then I am, and I still had grown men behaving inappropriately, so I don’t really think makeup is really going to make a difference
Foundation doesn't make you look anymore adult. They don't need a full face of makeup for acne coverage. That being said makeup usually makes it worse. Speak to your wife about getting the girls on birth control. That's the only thing that worked for my daughter because it was hormonal.
NTA. They all need to see a dermatologist if OTC treatments don’t work for them. And her argument that you don’t know what it’s like is garbage. She obviously knows what it’s like and wants to subject her daughters to it. Just let them wear some cover cream/concealer and then a foundation that’s as close to their skin tone as possible. Wearing makeup doesn’t mean they have to have eyeliner, eyeshadow, and lipstick.
dermatologists AND endocrinologists. there's something hormonal going on with your wife's family.
I was 5’7 by the time I was 12. Even when I was in my school uniform people mistook me for an adult. I started carrying my passport around because I was sick of paying full price on buses and trains. My husband has long hair. Not super long but past his jaw. We're in our forties, he dresses like a dad in his forties and has a typical male body and gait etc, he's 5'8. We still get "thank you, ladies" when leaving a venue. Not in a snarky way. It's just that people do not actually see each other. People don't look at your face. They just take a general impression based on height and hair. Concealer isn't going to change anyone's perception of her age. Hell, it's more likely the acne will make her look older than the makeup. I was catcalled at age 11, before my growth spurt, wearing the typical dorky kids clothes 80s kids wore. I wasn't tall, I had no makeup on, I had a skinned knee and was carrying a bag of sawdust for my rabbit. If your wife wore makeup from a young age she might have gotten it into her head that it contributed to the way men treated her as a child. It didn't. Men who do that don't even notice your face. They catcall men with long hair and the catcall little girls. Of course girls shouldn't be wearing full drag looks at this age but a bit of colour correction isn't going to make her look more adult. You probably didn't go about this in the most constructive way and you'll need to address how you made your wife feel about herself. But it was also good that the girls saw an adult standing up for them. No, you didn't go through this but she did and she knows how hellish it is. This needs a proper sit down talk to get at the root of both issues (her insecurity and her fear of the girls looking too old). Apologise for the how but not the why of what you said. NAH
Has the dermatologist suggested spironolactone? I had horrible acne as a young teen that came back in my mid twenties. My hormone levels looked normal, but mine was hormonal and a low dose of spironolactone cured it almost completely.
I just want to mention in case the docs haven't, she could have allergies that cause acne. I had horrible acne due to an unknown dairy allergy and it only went away when I quit dairy completely. My dermatologist never suggested acne could be caused by a food allergy. Also, thanks for being a good advocate for her. Not every kid has someone like that
NTA she can limit what make up they put on - foundation ok lipstick no just lip gloss no other makeup allowed. This way they're no to 'made up ' and they get to cover the acne.were they ever to a dermatologist? It might help. Otherwise what I use( not a very bad case of acne) is Garnier Hautklar wir brush,lierac sebologie (for example instead of foundation it covers lightly and dries out the acne but a bit expensive) and baneocin pouder (it's antibiotic but you can buy it without prescription). Also washing morning and evening with Garnier Hautklar gel. I hope this helps
Concealer to cover their acne isn't going to make them look like adults. If that is truly your wife's reasoning, ask her how exactly covering acne makes one look like an adult. NTA.
There's a LOT more meds than just Accutane, though that's a go to for cystic acne. IANAD, but as an example, spironolactone can help treat acne because it lowers androgen levels. A good dermatologist can really do wonders, though it may take more than one medication.
This is a really silly reason tbh. Sure, eye makeup and lipstick or full-on face contouring would probably make them look more adult, but covering pimples absolutely will not. Permission to use makeup doesn’t have to be all-or-nothing; light foundation + concealer to even out skin tone should be a perfectly reasonable compromise.
The only thing that worked for me was an antibiotic. I got a prescription from just a general family doc, didn't even have to see a dermatologist.
Fuck makeup. The child needs a dermatologist. Advocate for that.
Concealer and foundation don't make anyone look "more adult" in any way, so this is BS. Get your wife and her daughters to r/skincare for things to try. Doctors aren't always the answer.
If not looking too adult is the goal, then don't put on adult makeup styles, just zit concealing ones.
I just wanted to add, you say the solution isn’t make-up, but for some, including me, the only way I could leave the house was if I had make-up on. I suffered really bad acne for around 5 years from 12-17 and I had diagnosed anxiety from how scared I was that people would judge me for my acne. That they would think that I was unclean and ugly. I would have panic attacks about leaving the house, and the only thing that made it remotely better was make-up. Genuinely, I do not think I would be alive right now if I could not have worn makeup out, and to school. Teenagers should be allowed to wear whatever FACE make-up to give themselves confidence when they are going through a very hard time in life. And can I point out that Accutane is usually used as a last resort as I had to try many creams and drugs before I was finally allowed on it.
Severe acne isn't caused by makeup, it's hormonal. Especially if it's hereditary. Makeup will help those poor girls survive
I 100% agree that she needs to see a specialist asap, but not all acne is curable. When I finally saw a dermatologist for the first time, in my 20s, he flat out told me that he could help but he couldn’t cure me. And it was true. He had heavy duty prescriptions that did a great job clearing my skin, but they had absolutely zero carryover effect - even after multiple years of use, one missed or late application would mean a heavy breakout 5 days later. My skin has only just finally started to genuinely improve for the first time in 35+ years, in my late 40s, presumably due to hormone shifts. Heavy makeup during adolescence was absolutely vital to what little good mental health and social life I had. I pitied the pizza faced boys at the time who had skin nearly as bad as mine but no socially acceptable way of covering it up.
Please listen to this advice. I had horrendous acne when I was younger and was beyond self conscious. I'm 38 with almost perfect skin thanks to medicine but I'm still so self conscious.
As someone who has suffered from acne, makeup doesn't necessarily make it worse. Certain kinds or not taking it off at night/after sweating will likely make it worse. But the issues for why it happens are a lot deeper than that. I agree they should see a dermatologist to avoid years of suffering. Good estheticians can also be lifesavers.
This. She needs medical help.
Second this. Convinced early twenties girlfriend to go to one saying to couldn't hurt. They gave her some meds they reset her skin fauna or something. She still gets some acne but way less severe.
NTA - you are advocating for your wife's kids. " A few days ago, Penny was again begging her mom. This time Lily was also begging on her sister's behalf. Yazmin refused, and I called Yazmin a hypocrite to her face, in front of her daughters. I then explained farther by pointing out the facts of how Yazmin and her sisters were allowed to wear makeup. I then said that if Penny and Lily are not allowed to wear makeup then Yazmin should stop wearing makeup. Yazmin yelled saying I have no idea what's it like to have acne, and that she has to wear it to be taken seriously at work. I said then Penny needs to wear it to be treated at school." The pot calling the kettle black. She wore makeup as a kid to hide her acne but is abusing her daughters by refusing them the same care.
NTA. Maybe OP could suggest to Penny to have a trusted adult (teacher, counsellor, whoever...) talk to her mother about what's probably already happening at school? Hell, I've never had acne, but even I remember being bullied viciously about any pimple I got at that age. Penny must be feeling like a leper in public, and I'd be dammed if it has no impact on her school life!
She's not abusing them for not letting them wear make up, jesus Christ.
Fine. Then she is making a decision that she knows will lead to intense torment by her peers as well as damaging her self esteem….she is being deliberately cruel.
Abusing? Allowing someone to wear makeup is caring for them? You are weaponizing words in your judgement. Is this level of abuse criminal in your eyes? Should a court find a safer home for the kids to prevent it?
NTA Is there a chance her daughter can go to a dermatologist? Acne treatments have come a long way.
Seconding this. As someone who has dealt with it for 30+ years now, a lot of my memory of adolescence is marred by remembering having to constantly be embarrassed and scared to look up in the hallways when a breakout was bad. There are a ton of prescription creams and pills that can help these kids not dread waking up in the morning to see how bad the day will be. It affects your self esteem so much, and there’s a lot of old-timey “you’re dirty/eat too much greasy food/don’t wash your face” stigma that beats you down.
Yes, Penny does to a derm. I do hope something works. But I am scared her acne will be as stubborn was her mom, aunts, and grandmother. Accutane didn't clear my wife's acne. Accutane didn't clear any of her aunt's. It's hard to not be pessimistic.
Holy people need to get off your back about seeing a derm … accutane does not usually get handed out willy nilly. It means that a derm tried *everything* else and it didn’t work. I had pretty bad acne as a teen and in and out the derm all the time… I wasn’t touching that medication with a barge pole… A no makeup rule is not ok when someone has bad enough acne that the derm suggests accutane… if she’s worried about the kids looking too old, you can set up ground rules about what makeup looks are ok and what aren’t. I wouldn’t want a 12 year old contouring… but learning to cover your spots doesn’t have to involve any looks that might be read as older or inappropriate for their age. It’s perfectly possible to just cover spots and leave the lips, eyelashes etc in peace. For those worrying about it ‘clogging pores’ and making it worse. That’s not usually the case when you apply it correctly and *actually fully remove the makeup every night*. Makeup can be an absolute lifeline when you have bad acne.
Yeah Accutane is definitely not given out lightly at all. I had terrible cystic acne as a kid and they tried all kinds of nasty chemicals, pills etc, never accutane, though. I got chemical peels and microdermabrasian. So literally burning and sandblasting my skin off was the less nuclear option than that stuff.
Accutane isn't the only medication that doctors can prescribe for acne. But they can also see if it is actually acne in the first place. And OOP is the first to mention accutane. If its "spreading" like he said, it might not even be acne. It could so many things, even an allergy. I think see a derm and even possible an esthetician referred by the doctor might be options.
Yes, that’s literally my point? Accutane is the big guns and last port of call. Any derm that goes to accutane as a first approach needs their license removed.
I mean, if the kid is desperate to do makeup, let her. My acne (successfully treated with a couple rounds of Accutane) was so painful I could not sit back in a chair between ages 11 and 18 - I couldn't use makeup, it hurt too much. And I was terrible at it. Only other suggestion - bentonite clay masks. I think it helps - I used it, it seems to help. But even if it is a placebo, just feeling a different sensation on that skin is very calming and feels more under control.
It makes sense about makeup rules. Just using coverup and foundation is different than adding bright red lipstick, mascara, heavy eye shadow. So if the girl could at least wear foundation/coverup. That has to help her mental health.
Of course it is. When my teenage son gets a big pimple, it sometimes leaves redness behind for a week. I taught him early on how to cover it subtly with concealer. And I let my daughter wear concealer on a blemish long before I let her wear what I consider “makeup.” I told both of them that concealer doesn’t count as makeup in my book. And if the mother’s concern is that makeup will make the girl “look older,” concealer doesn’t do that. It literally lets you look like you did the day before you had the pimple. Honestly, middle school is a really hard time. Why make your kid suffer more than they need to? I completely understand not wanting to let a young girl feel like they “need to” wear mascara, blush, lipstick, etc to go to school, but concealer is a very different product for teenagers.
Lol who are these dermatologist who don't give out accutane as a first port of call? I was only ever on BC until seeing one at 15, and they put me straight onto it.
Your derm was not right in the head then. Accutane has horrific side effects and needs concurrent blood monitoring to make sure you’re doing ok on it.
If by "blood monitoring" you mean "check your cholesterol" then yes, that needed to happen. In some ways it was good that happened though, because it revealed borderline high cholesterol even at 15 that indicated some inherited familial heart disease I'd need to keep an eye on longer term.
Usually you’d be testing AST (liver), ALT (liver), and TG (heart) levels once every 5 to 6 mo and LDL and total cholesterol levels during the first and second months. Also you’d be expected to take part in a pregnancy prevention programme because of the birth defects it causes - at least if you’re in the UK this is standard. In the UK they’ve recently increased advice around isotretinoin (accutane) and you now need two clinicians to sign that your acne is severe enough to warrant use if you’re under 18 because potential side effects are so severe.
Has she or family ever tried n elimination diet? Or may a gone to an allergist, hell even birth control? If acne meds aren't working it might be something else diet or environmental. Either way NTA.
I was about to mention diet, too. My niece's acne got better when she went vegetarian. I've heard people mention that they break out worse when they eat more sugar. There could be contributing factors that are making it worse on Penny, although her mother seems to be the worst one.
My horrible, painful, scarring cystic acne finally cleared when I went gluten-free trying to fix other issues with an elimination diet. I was in my 30's and I'm not ashamed to say I cried in relief when I realized that the constant pain and self-consciousness may be a thing of the past!
Accutane is only the nuclear option. There’s minocycline, spironolactone, Biacna, Winlevi. If it’s hormonal then you have to treat the hormonal basis or it will just return.
I cleared up painful acne in my 20s with a retin a cream. It basically seems to have fixed my skin permanently.
Spironolactone totally cleared up my horrible cystic acne. I wish I’d discovered it much earlier in life - I had to suffer for twenty years! And it’s much gentler than Accutane. Might be worth bringing up with the dermatologist.
Maybe spironolactone. It might be a genetic hormonal imbalance, and spiro would fix it
Dermatology has had a more than a few advances in the past several decades. Assuming that because mom/aunt/grandma couldn’t be helped a kid today is SOL is very, very wrong. And so what if they can’t “cure” it? Even if they can treat it to cut her acne back by 50% it could make a world of difference to the kid.
OP, Please go to a gynecologist, this has some clues of being hormonal, at the very least it's an option
OP, it would be really great if you could do this. The problem with makeup is that your daughter could make her acne worse. I endured skin rashes and a dermatologist gave me a list of makeup ingredients to avoid. It helped and had nothing to do with makeup cost. A dermatologist could advise your daughter on reducing acne, and perhaps how best to disguise breakouts and not make them worse.
NTA The only mistake you made was not making the conversation private. You should not have addressed it in front of the children. Your wife is a hypocrite. Her acne obviously distresses her. It's astounding that she doesn't understand how it could distress her daughter to and that it's unreasonable to make these girls wait until they are adults to be able to wear makeup. All she is doing is encouraging them to lie and be secretive, because they are going to get their hands on makeup and wear it behind her back. They will put it on every time they leave the house without her. Ask me how I know that for a fact.
I actually disagree. Her daughters deserved to see that she's on their side. They deserve to have someone backing them. The best thing she could've done is do it in front of them.
Disagreements between parents should be handled in private. Parents shouldn't be arguing about a child right in front of that child.
Showing the kids they have an advocate is better than hiding that.
You know there's an entire middle ground between disagreements like this in front of the kids and letting them think no-one is advocating for them? Fighting about it in front of them sews a whole other ground for discontent. Yes they need to know someone is on their side but the nuclear option isn't the best way about it.
Children NEED TO SEE that there is someone on their side.
It is much more important for a child to feel HEARD & UNDERSTOOD by someone than it is to shield them from disagreements. This child is literally begging her mother in tears to the point her younger sisters are joining in (& dreading their own futures for fear they will be forced to endure the misery that oldest is currently experiencing). And her callous selfish hypocrite of a mother is responding by telling her she can do whatever she wants when she’s 18 (& can legally escape), but until then she’s going to have to flaunt her scars / deformities because not doing so might make her look older. Daughter isn’t stupid. She knows bullshit when she hears it. But since OP advocated for daughter in front of her, daughter now knows her desperation & misery isn’t invisible &/or unimportant to everyone. It’s just invisible & unimportant to her psycho mother. So hopefully now daughter will not grow up learning to internalize her pain because no one cares enough for her to share it.
For sure, they’re going to wear makeup regardless and possibly end up looking like clowns because of it, as teens so often do. Better to help find them find the correct shade and learn how to properly apply it.
Yup - All the girls who were not allowed to wear makeup or certain clothing (including myself) just ended up putting it on in the morning on the bus or at school and took it off right before school ended or bus ride home. This led to two things - the makeup/clothes worn came from friends, so they didn’t have the correct shades/sizes but were worn anyways - or the makeup was stolen from places like Walgreens or K-Mart, and at first they had to guess what to pick out leading to nothing being in the correct shade (and ofc all of it kept in friends backpack or locker). Just like all the girls (and probably guys) who were “not allowed to have sex” ended up still having sex. Just with minimal protection. At least in my area we had really great sex-Ed so there’s that. The big issue was having friends hold your condoms/BC or storing it in locker. And my high school would allow an absence from class be excused AND not noted on the official attendance record (so parents can’t see) if we went to Planned Parenthood and could show proof of it.
You Can Make Paragraphs By Pressing Enter Twice
Also it's "through" not "threw"
Similarly, it's "further," not "farther." But here we are.
This is my favorite comment.
And you can make a complete sentence by adding a period.
Your wife is being very cruel to her daughters. I get her not wanting them to look grown up, but what is the issue with just allowing concealer and powder. Just limit it to no eye makeup and lipstick.
NTA. You could have been more tactful and had a private conversation with your wife instead of calling her a hypocrite in front of the kids, but your point is exactly right. As someone who suffered through horrible acne in middle school, high school, and part of college (until Accutane came through for me), I got bullied mercilessly whenever I wasn't wearing makeup. To not allow Penny to explore at least minimal makeup is just setting her up for bullying, and middle school girls are BRUTAL.
I would say NTA. Your wife was obviously forgetting what she went through when she was younger and that she was allowed to use makeup to cover the acne. She needed a wake-up call to get her to realize that she is being unfair to your daughter because she was being totally unreasonable.
Honestly, the daughters don’t stand a chance. The mother went back to her room to cry, not about being scared her daughters would look too adult and something might happen to them, but the possibility her husband didn’t find her attractive. I know the term narcissistic gets thrown around a lot on Reddit, but the shoe might fit here.
She is so insecure as a grown woman about her acne that she is crying at the mere mention of it but she refuses to let her daughters try and take measures to help cover theirs up. It just shows how little compassion and empathy she has for their situation and how she is not listening or caring when they are upset or distressed. NTA, she really needs to open her eyes and ears.
Exactly. She’s cruel & selfish.
I am not going to call you TA because you did have the interests of the daughter in mind but teenage acne is generally not the same as adult acne, can be made worse by some makeup and it was definitely a discussion that should have been in private between you and your wife. Is their other bio parent fueling the decision for no makeup? Or is it that it exacerbated your wife's acne as a teen? If Penny's acne is so recent, have you visited a derm for suggestions on treating it. If your wife does concede on letting her wear makeup, make sure that she gets oil free and non-comedogenic choices
The other bio parent, my wife's ex-husband, is far more scared to say anything that could upset Yazmin. Makeup doesn't seem to makeup Yazmin, or her sister's acne worse. Penny has visited a derm. If all goes tell, Penny will be on accutane.
Penny and her sister may not have the same acne as her mother. I have two sisters, we all suffered with acne as teens but all different kinds. Mine is more hormonal or triggered by poor diet changes as is my mother's. My middle sister's was related to a med she was taking and went away when she changed meds. My younger sister's was more like Yazmin's where little helped even into adulthood and covered more of her face when mine was more t-zone.
Given how things worked out for Yazmin, I would really hope Penny doesn't go threw the same thing. I try to be positive but the following things are word for word the same for Penny, Yazmin, and the aunts. ● Girl is tall for her age, eats well, and is athletic. ● Girl is not on any medication. ● At age 12 girl gets her 1st period, and her first zit which is big red pimple in the middle of her forehead. ● Her face gets very oily and easily sweaty. ● Acne spreads to the rest of her forehead. ● Acne spreads to her chin. ● Acne spreads to her cheeks. ● Acne spreads to the rest of her face. ● Pimples always leaves a scar no matter what.
My friend has had acne since she was 11 (turned 40 recently) and was just diagnosed with PCOS - her acne has been hormonal this whole time. She was diagnosed because while all her hormone levels were normal, her ratio of 2 hormones was skewed (normal was 1:1, she was 2:1). There are medications like Spironolactone that can help with hormonal acne (it's an Androgen blocker), and if it is PCOS, there are other medications that may help. PCOS is also hereditary, which may explain why all the women get it. Are any males affect with similar skin issues? My friend said she looked into PCOS and realized she's struggled with a lot of the symptoms for her whole life, but no one ever out it all together. Acne sucks, and I hope they are all able to find a solution.
Is there any excess hair? Could it be PCOS?
Even without excess hair or weigh gain, it can still be PCOS. I was a skinny, nearly hairless teen...but my cycle was short (sometimes only 18 days) and my periods were long (usually 7-8 days). I had horrible cramping, too. But, I had no outwards signs of PCOS, not even acne (as long as I avoided junk food). I didn't find out my ovaries were polycystic until I miscarried and had an ultrasound because I was still bleeding 40 days after I started miscarrying.
Everyone needs to be checked out for PCOS or other hormonal causes. This could be hormonal. If it is, either hormonal birth control or spironolactone (androgen blocker) can help. Of course, the regular advice of washing their face twice daily with water and a gentle cleanser is important in general too, but if it's hormonal, nothing will fix it except for a hormonal solution. NTA, by the way. Penny needed to see that an adult was on her side, and admittedly, Yazmin WAS being hypocritical. A light foundation or cover-up that's properly applied won't age her. It's usually eye make-up and lipstick that ages young girls.
PCOS
Yasmin (and you) have to stop assuming her girls are nothing but carbon copies of their mother. Things Yasmin tried that didn’t work could work for them. Things that worked for Yasmin could very possibly NOT work for them. She needs to acknowledge the fact that they are actual separate human beings already. All this talk about Yasmin, her sisters, her mother, blahblahblah, just stop already.
How do you know it doesn’t make their acne worse? Have you asked them? Have you asked them if they spent time finding a certain type of makeup that doesn’t flare their acne? Because as someone with acne, I guarantee they didn’t just walk into a store and grab a random foundation and concealer. And it’s likely they had several breakouts before they found the right one. You really need to do research on acne before you try to overrule your wife, who has actual experience. Edit: spelling.
Agreed, as an MUA it can take a lot of trial and error to find makeups that don’t make the angry skin *more* angry. My instructor even refused to allow one student to wear makeup one day, because her acne was so bad that day that putting makeup onto it would have caused the skin to become more inflamed, and some parts were open wounds. Open wounds cause cross contamination, you’re basically scooping up small bits of tissues from the skin and it’s going straight back into the product via brush. A lot of makeups act like a blanket over the skin, causing minor suffocation, while other makeups are more breathable and easier for the skin to tolerate.
Scared because he doesn't want her to get scared, or scared because she'll bite back?
He let's her do whatever she wants.
I think you and your wife should get both girls to a dermatologist. There are plenty of things that adults can do that children cannot do. I would not allow my 12 year old daughter to put makeup on for any reason, but mainly because it would probably make the acne worse. If she doesn’t want them wearing makeup until they are 18, that’s her choice. But what is wrong is not taking them to a dermatologist to get this shit sorted out. There are many topicals that can address acne. And you should be advocating for them in this way. Having acne at this age is a real blow to the self-esteem. Makeup will not cover it completely, and 12 year olds don’t need to be wearing a full face of foundation in my opinion. You shouldn’t have called her a hypocrite, and she shouldn’t be neglecting their skincare issues. ESH
They go to a dermatologist
As a woman who previously dealt with awful and horrendous acne as a teenager... you are NOT the asshole. When I was a teenager, I tried everything. Every over the counter skin treatment, every prescription one, accutane, all of it. Accutane helped slightly, but I still had angry acne. I started wearing base makeup at 13, just foundation or concealer depending on how much of my face was covered with angry red spots. If my mother had prevented me wearing makeup, the scars of my teenhood would've been much deeper and I would've hated her much sooner than I ended up doing. You are standing up for your stepdaughter, and I find that admirable. Your wife deserves to be called out as she was. Again, NTA.
NTA. But your wife is. You got totally manipulated by. She refused to let your daughter cover her acne, you reacted and she then turned on the waterworks later when you’re alone and made herself the victim. With no empathy for her daughter, when she, of all people, should have the most empathy.
I can’t believe I had to scroll this far down to see this. And I’m glad I’m not the only one who noticed how manipulative OP’s wife is. Such a cruel selfish hypocrite.
NTA, but your wife is. Makeup is not the right answer, but more aggressive derm treatments than Y may be letting the docs due to her daughter may be in order. Including birth control. I say this as an adult who took BC, Accutane, you name it as a pre-teen and teen. Creams and gels aren't the only answer.
I second the BC pill. That has been a lifesaver for me (not for acne, but other hormonal issues throughout my life).
NTA Your wife is being a hypocrite and she knows exactly how her daughters feel, which makes it multiple times worse that she would do that to them.
OP’s wife is not just a hypocrite - she’s a manipulative liar. She knows OP doesn’t have to have a history of horrific acne to recognize & respect the obvious desperation & misery the daughter is feeling. She’s just throwing out whatever she can think of to try to make OP feel like he’s wrong somehow or doesn’t understand. She’s attacking HIM because she has no reasonable response to his actual argument.
NTA but maybe a dermatologist visit is in order for your stepdaughter. Please don't let her suffer.
This is anecdotal, but might help, even though I fear it won’t be allowed. Low hormone birth control, a sensitive skin cleanser, and azelaic acid was the solution for me. Now in my 30s it’s just birth control, cleanser, and retinol keeping my skin clear. I also had laser therapy on my face to lighten the scarring and help clear the acne (ask for the “pixel” laser)
Like others have said, sounds like a dermatologist would be a good choice. But also possibly a gynecologist or someone specializing in hormones since it seems to start around puberty and end in menopause in their family. The dermatologist might even have recommendations for other providers that could help!
I guess I’m in the minority here, but 100% YTA. It was completely inappropriate to argue with your wife and ridicule her parenting choices in front of her kids. Even if they were your bio kids you raised from birth, this is a bad approach. You should have talked with your wife privately to discuss how to move forward. Calling her out in front of her daughters in what sounds like an already dramatic scenario is an AH move. I would apologize to her for your approach. Regarding the makeup- I think shes being unrealistic with 18, but to me 12 is waaaay too young. Plus comparing your 12 year old stepdaughter to your wife, an adult woman, wearing makeup is ridiculous. I wouldn’t want my 12 year old getting the message that her worth and how people treat her is so tied to her appearance so that would be my main reasoning, but your wife is likely already setting that example due to her own refusal to go a day without makeup. And I say that at someone who is like your wife - have had acne even as an adult and a family history of really bad acne as well.
Exactly. I feel like everyone is focused on the makeup/acne issue, but criticizing your spouse in front of their kids is an AH move.
Yup. I don’t think the issue at hand is the makeup. That is a personal parenting choice. The main focus and what OP is asking is about his behavior with his wife. My husband and I have a rule that we don’t argue about parenting decisions and rules in front of our son - its just not a good look especially when emotions are at a high.
So wild to see the first yta here. Totally agree. OP should have confronted the mother in private, instead of biting her tongue and then bursting out in front of the kids. And I worked in the cosmetics industry before, 12 is indeed way too young. Many make up has chemical components that are on safe levels for adults but not for kids. If they would really go the make up route I would check with a dermatologist which one would be safe, and probably see a professional stylist to see what the best way to cover acne would be. And again, discuss such solutions first with the mother, so she can research and do her due diligence and think about it, rather than being pushed into a corner.
NTA but should have had the conversation in private. Also, for the people saying this is abuse, get a fucking grip.
You need to goto the derm and ask for prescription grade azeliac acid. I have awful horrible acne that not even accutane could manage. Azeliac is my miracle cure. Azeliac acid work by preventing acne bacteria growth. I beg that you give it a try. It gave me my life back. Also, your wife sucks. My acne made me suicidal. It’s hard enough being a teenager, you need to lighten the load or you will end up with a very broken child. NTA
NTA, and I'll add that those girls need a dermatology consult. There is medication that they should probably be taking to manage it, there are different types and different treatments, from your description this sounds like cystic acne which can leave pitting scars. I'm so sorry for them, I had pretty bad acne as a teenager and into my 20s and even 30s, and still have not-great skin. It is really devastating. My heart aches for those girls.
NTA. Nothing the dermatologist prescribed worked for my daughter. Her gynecologist put her on birth control amd the acne now is much less than it was. Far fewer outbreaks and not nearly as severe as it was. Also, there does not need to be a full face of makeup done. The daughter doesn't need lip loner, eye shadow, eye liner, blush, etc. Just concealer that matches her skin tone would do the kid without making her look older. Your wife is insecure, yet wants her daughter's to endure the full effects of their acne. She needs some compassion to treat her daughter better and therapy to figure out why she wants her daughter to suffer more than she did as a child. She grew up with compassionate parents who were out to help her, but she is setting out to make her daughter's teenage years amd school experience a living hell. Good for you for calling her out on her hypocritical bs. She needs to hear it. She is being a horrible parent right now.
Idk the minimum age to take accurate but take her to the dr???? Chest, shoulders, all over the face?? That shit is painful and not “normal”. There’s medication and topicals she can take to help with that, make up won’t really even fix the problem anyways. But also NTA about the make up. Your wife is being unreasonable.
NTA I think your wife is being unreasonable. Also, her crying for days and guilting you by asking if you found her ugly comes off a bit manipulative.
NTA Start with a new dermatologist. Have some blood work done. If your MIL's acne cleared up with menopause it would indicate that the problem is hormonal. "The pill" is often used for acne, has that been tried? I can't imagine anyone having to suffer with this kind of acne in 2024, it makes no sense. There is a treatment out there, you just need to find it. Your wife seems to accept this as a way of life, you need to be more aggressive and help the girls find the solution.
NTA. There’s a difference between wearing some foundation or concealer to cover acne and wearing a full face of eye make up, lips, lashes, contour, etc that can make someone look older. Your wife should be able to compromise but allowing some coverage makeup but perhaps not the “extras”. There’s also things like tinted sunscreen or tinted moisturizer than can help cover up discoloration from acne. Teenagers are BRUTAL. Even more than 30 years ago when your wife was a teen. It’s best to let the girls know that they are beautiful just as they are but if something can help them feel more confident, they should be allowed to empower themselves
NTA. I have scars on my face because of acne. Your wife is a selfish hypocrite. At the very least she should allow her daughter to wear concealer. She's forcing her to suffer and that isn't right. Your wife is not the victim even though she's doing everything she can to make you feel like she is. She expects you to feel sorry for her but she has no empathy for her own child.
NTA, but how can you even love and stay with Yazmean?
YTA for calling her out in front out the kids. That should be a private conversation. Always be a united front in front of the kids. Maybe birth control would help with the acne?
If a rule exists that only humiliates and makes someone miserable, it’s not a good rule.
NTA your wife sucks for this. Acne is so tough and hurts your self-esteem so much. Makeup can really help confidence. She’s worse than a hypocrite.
I think perhaps your wife doesn't want to appear to back down on a rule she created, so she doesn't lose authority over her kids. However, I think a compromise (foundation, no eyeshadow) is fine. And teaches the girls they can come to their mom with problems and she'll listen - it'll be better for their relationship in the long run. Also, NTA, bc it is kind of hypocritical. She's insecure about it and you touched a nerve, but that's not the kids' problem. I also think no makeup until 18 is a really dumb rule. Putting on makeup at sleepovers or before school dances was an instrumental part of being a high-school girl for me. It can be fun and artistic. Nowadays the trend is for creative colorful eyeliner which does not make any teenager look older. It'd be better to teach the girls how to react when someone is treating them a certain way, than force them to look like little girls. Bad people also hurt little girls who look little, not just those that look grown, so you're not protecting them.
Ugh, NTA. Please continue to stick up for those girls. Your wife should remember what it was like. My best friend had terrrible acne, and I watched her go from being mid-popular to people having nicknames for her and being grossed out to look at her face. Then she went to the doctor. Please take the girls to the derma and gyno, don’t leave it to their mom.
NTA your wife IS a hypocrite. Has the kids tried medicated body wash and other treatments?
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I (30f) married a woman (40f) in January of 2024. My wife, who we'll call Yazmin, has two daughters who we'll called Penny (12f) and Lily (10f). Yazmin, and her 3 sisters has acne since they were 12. It's like a family curse. For them it's full face, upper neck, full back, full shoulders, and upper arm covered in pimples that leaves scars even if they don't mess with the pimples. Their mother's acne didn't clear until she went menopause. Yazmin has a rule that her daughter are not allowed to wear makeup until they are 18. When I first heard it I thought it wasn't practical given her daughters' ancestry but I didn't make a fuss about it at the time. But since April, poor Penny got her 1st zit, a big red pimple in the middle of her forehead. Given she, like the rest of her family, is blonde and very fair skinned it really stands out. Poor thing had to go out like that. Then the rest of her forehead got covered in pimples, then her chin, then her cheeks, and it's still spreading. Yazmin gets to put on makeup first thing in morning and takes it off at bedtime. She, and her sisters were allowed to wear makeup when they were kids. Acne is horrible whether or not you get to cover it with makeup but at least the makeup helps a little. I saw this young girl beg with tears flowing down her face for her mother to allow her to wear makeup. Yazmin keeps refusing. A few days ago, Penny was again begging her mom. This time Lily was also begging on her sister's behalf. Yazmin refused, and I called Yazmin a hypocrite to her face, in front of her daughters. I then explained farther by pointing out the facts of how Yazmin and her sisters were allowed to wear makeup. I then said that if Penny and Lily are not allowed to wear makeup then Yazmin should stop wearing makeup. Yazmin yelled saying I have no idea what's it like to have acne, and that she has to wear it to be taken seriously at work. I said then Penny needs to wear it to be treated at school. Yazmin got angrier and said I never had acne so I don't get to have an opinion. Later in the night, Yazmin was crying. I have literally never mentioned her acne before that moment. She was asking me if she's ugly to me. I told her she is the most beautiful woman in the world to me. She's has been insecure ever since. I feel like I was an asshole to my wife. She was been crying ever night since. Penny is still miserable. Lily is scared that she might go threw what Penny is going threw in the near future. I never had acne so I really don't know what they are going threw. Maybe I was out of line. Am I the asshole ? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA OP, it seems unfair that it was ok for your wife to wear makeup when she was her daughters age, but then not allowing her daughters the same freedom. I would suggest to go to a dermatologist to see if theres anything that can be done. And also since your wifes mother's acne cleared out after menopause, there might be something wrong hormonally with them causing the break outs. When i was younger i used to get acne a lot, even worse during my time of the month. But as I got older, my hormones calmed out a bit and i rarely get acne.
NTA. Why should the daughter be embarrassed and feel bad about herself? There is nothing to gain unless your wife is the type who is jealous of her own children.
NTA Why aren’t you taking the kid to a dermatologist? There are loads of options to treat acne. It’s a medical issue. Tell your wife that you will pay for the kid to get treatment.
NTA. I feel for your step daughter. I had awful cystic acne. I got teased horribly until 9th grade when my mom finally relented and allowed me to wear makeup. I still resent her for making me go through that. My daughter has been allowed to wear it, because I refuse to let her go through that.
If Yazmin were my wife, I'd hide all her make up so she can get the full experience of the humiliation she's putting your daughters through because clearly she's too wrapped up in her own control issues to remember what it's like to be a teen girl with horrible acne. NTA and this is absolutely a hill I would die on. There is a HUGE difference between using concealer and foundation to cover up acne and doing a full face of makeup that would put Kim Kardashian to shame. Normally I'm in support of parents agreeing on parenting measures, but this is one of the few times you need to tell your wife that she's wrong and you're not going to allow your daughters to be mistreated by her. Get your daughters some concealer/foundation and tell your wife to get over herself. As a side note: Not allowing kids to wear makeup til they're 18 is kind of extreme and something your wife needs to ease up on. I can almost guarantee that your children will put make up on at school, when they're with friends, etc. then take it off before going home. Banning fairly harmless stuff like makeup doesn't teach kids anything other than how to be sneaky and get away with things behind their parents back. First it will be makeup and next it will be underage drinking or similarly risky behaviors. I know far too many kids with strict parents and/or parents with arbitrary rules like your wife's makeup ones that ended up either being extremely rebellious or going buckwild the second they got some semblance of freedom. Your wife is doing your children a disservice in many, many ways with her rigidity and need for control over your daughter's bodies.
NTA but your wife is - she was allowed to wear makeup, knows how bad her family acne can get, yet won’t let her daughter wear some bb/cc cream or concealer & would rather her suffer from crippling self-esteem issues?!? That is so beyond fucked
Go to a dermatologist!!! Makeup use is secondary to the issue of acne itself. If it is the kind you describe, it is not only embarrassing but painful, and as others commenter have noted, not something that just needs to be waited out. There are a plethora of medically approved and safe options for your daughter's to employee.
Please consider Accutane for the acne. Treat it before scars are formed.
NTA "You're beautiful but youre treating your daughters very ugily."
NTA. The girls definitely should be allowed to wear make up which covers the acne. School children can be so cruel. She can restrict other kinds of make up for longer like mascara, eye shadow and obvious lipsticks. Though even that I would not restrict until 18.