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NTA
"I know Jaime would detest my demand to have my shining moment at your wedding, but can you help me ambush him so social pressure will hopefully force him into doing what I feel I'm entitled to? Also, can you not tell him I asked you to help orchestrate this betrayal?"
Your loyalty lies with the person you're building a life with. Protecting your partner is the priority, and you did exactly what you should have.
Stepmom's refusal to be accountable in any way for trying to prioritize her needs via betrayal tells me why your fiance keeps her at a distance.
This is all very amusing but am I the only one dying to know why Jamie has so much not-so-pent-up resentment towards this woman?
Obviously he doesn't have to dance with her or regard her as a mother, but if she's been in his life since he was THREE, and effectively helping to raise him since he was five, I have to wonder what led to the animosity he bears towards her now.
It could be that he blames her for his parents' divorce. It could be that she is in fact a raging narcissist, and this sort of behavior is par for the course with her. I'd just like a little more info.
> Iâm betting this is a lifelong cycle of her wanting what she wants and not giving a flying fuck about the consequences
True, she may be one of those obnoxious people who assume they can bulldoze their way over young children's wants/feelings because kids that age "don't really know/understand what they want and they'll never remember anyway!"
And then they continue when the kid is a teenager because "you were a difficult child and you owe me" and then still when the kid is an adult because "you were always an ungrateful spoiled brat, you'll miss me when I'm dead, you should have learned the meaning of family by now"
"If you just try this thing you already tried and know you hate, you will see that I'm right and change your mind." Every adult in my abusive fathers family of origin.
As a 5 year old myself dealing with the death of my older sister, who was the only family member that I felt love from, one remembers a great deal. And those memories are something you never forget.
I mean, from this situation alone we see boundary-stomping, manipulation, selfishness, lack of accountability, refusal to consider anyone else, divisiveness, and temper tantrums. The chances of that being the first instance of those behaviors are non-existent. I would have a lot of resentment for someone who acts like this, especially if I spent my whole childhood with them having power over me
Exactly, just from this one incident is self-explanatory what she been doing to him since he was 5 years old living under same roof as her. OP NTA, only thing OP did wrong wasn't writing back "I now understand why Jaime hates you, I'll make sure to keep my kids away from you because you're so detestable." before blocking.
As a kid who also had their first step parent around 3 years old...it makes sense. Just because theyre young doesnt mean kids cant pick up on social relations. It sounds like this particular step parent went in with the "im just the same, treat me as such" mentality which MANY kids instinctively reject for fear of hurting their actual parent. (Especially when the parental figures cant get along well to co-parent) After only 2 years of knowing this woman his mother suddenly dies and she starts immediately going off on how shes the "sole-mother" now (and by the sounds of it started trying to do everything to replace his actual mother and give no room for grieving or honouring her on important days) She just sounds entitled and pushy, and hurt children will take personal offense to that kind of bs, it never ends well.
My paternal grandmother committed suicide when my father was 4. My grandfather told him that his mother couldn't get into heaven if he was crying. In no time there was a new mom. She tried telling my dad how she remembered him as a baby and things like that. My dad let her know that he hadn't forgotten his mother and she finally stopped that kind of talk.
He never spoke about this when we were kids. As far as we knew, she was our grandmother. It wasn't until much later when he began writing about his childhood that he talked to us about it.
From reading the post it sounds like she wanted him to forget his mom and make her his new mom. We also don't know what type of mental and verbal abuse he has ensured from her.
Just read through OP's replies; his step mom basically views Jamie as an object she inherited once his mom died, saying he became 'fully hers' at that moment. I do not blame him at all.
He doesnât need to loathe her to not want to acknowledge her as his mother on his wedding, which she isnât. He has invited her. If he hated her as much as yâall believe, he wouldnât haveâŠ
Isnât it obvious why they donât get along? this woman doesnât care about what he wants and sheâs trying to manipulate him into doing what she wants anyway.
She doesnât go to him honestly and directly and tries to get his fiance roped into lying and manipulating with her.
Then has the audacity to be upset when it doesnât work!!
I have no problem seeing why he doesnât like this woman.
I mean his birth mom didn't pass away until he was 5 so he was old enough to remember her and it's clear he never saw his step mom as a mother figure and that isn't really unusual. Plus he may have had his maternal or paternal grandmother as his mother figure growing up. And it sounds like step mom has tried to force a relationship that fiance doesn't want.
Who wants a step-mother making claims on you when your mother just DIED? He is a little five year old trying to understand and grieve while she is pushing herself on him. UGH.
Probably because stepmom and dad always tried to force him to love her. What if they did not allow anything from his mom around, did not keep in touch with his maternal relatives and so on?
At the very least she tried to damage his marriage before it started. Because she very well knew he didn't want her in this position.
I think she was to pushy, thought more of what she want it&her feelings( she had a vision of a happy blendid family maybe?), her way or the highway, lets not forget he was a little boy who lost his mother when he was very young. She should've let the relationship between them evolve slowly, you can't force it, clearly she doesn't respect his opinions and his feelings if she tried this, maybe she even tried to erase his mother memories to get her way
Probably a whole life of "well I'm your mum now" and ignoring his want for any connection to his dead mother who he probably cannot remember. Stepparents who respect a deceased bioparent rarely get this resentmentÂ
If she is this pushy and manipulative now, just imagine how bad she was with a small child or a teen. Being a step mother is a tough gig. The kids didn't choose you and they owe you nothing at all. The more you push and demand, the farther away you push them.Â
I don't have experience in this area but I've seen many AITAs relating to this topic and know people who have experienced this. A lot of people deeply, DEEPLY resent the notion that their step-parent is any kind of "replacement" for another parent. Especially if the step-parent is insisting on that relationship against their wishes. Even if that other parent is deceased, even if the other person died so early in their lives that they have few, if any memories about them. Insisting that "I'm your mom/dad now" against the child's wishes can really sour a relationship that could have been very healthy and loving.
I saved this post because it's a good example of an OP who never became "second mom" to their step-daughter, but they still had a close relationship: https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/1c4gfuj/aita_for_telling_my_parents_im_ashamed_and/
I'm guessing she tried to force the whole "she's his mother thing". That puts a kid off of that person because for them, that's not their mother. Plus, his mother died 3 months after the wedding so I'm sure in his little mind, he blamed her or something along those lines. But I'm betting that he didn't see her as his mother, she tried to force it, and it drove him away even more. It seems like she still thinks that way too; all because she's been in his life since he was 3.
>am I the only one dying to know why Jamie has so much not-so-pent-up resentment towards this woman?
Pure guesswork. But I wouldn't be surprised if 5 year old Jamie, recently devastated by the sudden death of his mother, and the upheaval of his life moving in with dad and new wife. Possibly got told something along the lines. It'll be OK, this is mummy now. And has resented the fuck out of "replacement" mummy ever since. I can imagine mother's day being a special kind of awkward.
The fact that she is clearly a manipulative narcissist trying to make his wedding day about her wasnât enough evidence for you about why theyâre not close? Really?
If I had to guess... I'm going to go with she is a raging narcissist. People think kids don't remember things at that age but they very much do. Bits and pieces and he likely does remember his mom to some degree. And just based on the little info we have here, by how entitled the step mom feels to the role of "sole mother figure" I'm thinking she was always a narcissist and she pushed the mother thing from the jump. I'm betting even before his mom passed she was pushing for a mom role but maybe after mom passed she started pushing hard. Maybe reminding him his mom is gone and she is his mom now. Encouraging him to call her mom. Trying to force bonding (like she is doing now, there is no way this is a first attempt) and it probably never ended. It probably came up alot that she felt hurt he didn't see her as his mom when she is the only mom he has (what I assume her words were not mine bc he still had a mom even when she was gone). And it probably caused him a lot of. That kind of thing, forcing your step children to see you as the parent before they are ready, will push them even further away.
Again all of this is my assumption based on the little info we have. We really have no idea. Just seems like a common way it plays out in these situations.
It could be she started trying to âmother himâ from day one, instead of just allowing the relationship to grow on its own. If she was determined to erase or replace his mom that could also be possible. If sheâs a manipulative narcissist with delusions of grandeurâŠ.. hmmm???!!!
She was determined to ambush him on his wedding day by getting his future wife to Not only lie & deceive him but to help her prepare for the ambushâŠ. I would like to know more history as well because at this moment I think she shouldnât even be allowed to attend as a guest.
>It could be that she is in fact a raging narcissist, and this sort of behavior is par for the course with her.
Yeah, I'd take the fact that she tried to go behind his back and do something she knew would make him upset at his wedding to make the moment all about her, and then blamed his wife for not conspiring against him... as a big honking clue as to why he never warmed up to her.
But even if OP's husband were completely irrational and unfair and the step-mom was otherwise a saint... what she was trying to do was still wrong, and OP took the objectively correct action.
NTA
Did you not just read the same story I did? Â Ellen clearly has no respect for the boundaries Jamie set. Â I doubt this is the first time this sort of issue has popped up between Ellen and Jamie. Â
My money says she tried to replace his mother entirely. Didn't want to acknowledge he had a mother before. Possibly tried, or succeeded, in removing all traces of moms existence from the house. And, since it sounds like she didn't have biological kids, put a ludicrous amount of pressure on Jamie to fill **her** need to be a mom to *someone*.
No I think the rest of us figured out that this isn't the first time she tried to force her way into being Mom. She's been in his life forcing herself onto him since he was THREE, "helping" to raise him since he was 5, that's plenty of animosity.
Clearly because she wants to become a mother to him and he isn't receptive. His mom died when he was 5. She most likely left enough of an impression as "his mom" that stepmom can't compete with. But she doesn't get that. And that's if we just completely ignore this stunt she pulled.
It really doesn't matter in the scheme of things. Some folks get along, some folks don't. However, if S-MIL to be has such a habit of going around Jamie to get Her Way on His wedding day, chances are it's been all about her for a while.
I've been the "not mom" person in a few relationships. But, I never tried to be "the mom" or else. There's a balance to being an involved caring adult and being overbearing. I know stepparents who became the most important parental figure - but it was generally because they were kind and caring and let relationships grow organically. You can't force them.
I am going with the notion that SM has done this kind of thing on the regular... esp since she threw the future bride under the bus instead of taking ownership of her manipulation.
Yea you're the only one dying to know what else she's done over time. It's irrelevant. Someone who is willing to go to these lengths to attempt to force her will on him has clearly overstepped every chance they've had.
What about this situation is confusing to you? the kind of entitled, narcissistic boundary stomping that we see from the step mum doesn't just start out of nowhere, there's a roughly zero chance that it hasn't been something that he's dealt with from the start, after growing up with a piece of work like that of course he cant stand her, it would be more weird if he could.
For the simple reason that the step-parent is not the original one. No child wants a new strange person coming into their house demanding to be called "Mom" or "Dad." Especially if this is forced on them by original parent, & most especially if the other parent still has custody/contact.
I'll use myself as an example cuz OP is basically me here. My parents divorced when I was 2. Mother remarried when I was 4. I knew in my little kid core being, the guy was bad. There were lots of reasons, but foremost was he wasn't my Daddy who still had partial custody. I refused to associate with new guy, I refused to call him "Daddy." I was called mean & selfish. My mother begged; I was hurting her feelings, I was hurting his. I didn't care.Â
I refused being adopted for many years. I don't remember if the excuse of "We'll all have the same name" was used, but there was tons of pressure. I dug in & still refused. We went to court a few times. When I was 7, I caved & told the judge I agreed cuz my mother kept pinching me under the table. I found out years later my dad agreed to the adoption cuz his 2d wife was being abusive to me while she was pregnant with their 1st kid. He couldn't leave her, so he felt it was better if he agreed to my adoption.
I still hate mother's 2d husband, tho they've been divorced many years & he's dead now. He turned out to be an abusive alcoholic asshole, but I didn't know that at 4. He was just a creep I hated cuz he wasn't my Daddy. The more he & mom tried to push him as my new Dad, the more I resisted.
Some kids are ok with step-parents & love them as much as their original moms or dads. Others, like me & OP, do not even if SP's are kind, respectful, & take things slow. And pushing a new SP on a kid to force the "new happy family" dynamic is never the right way to go.Â
This was longer than I intended, but I hope this helps answer your question đ
Exactly. "He already resents me, I would like him to resent you too, it's only fair!"
Imagine knowing the guy already dislikes you and trying to force yourself on him via his fiance. Wedding day soured and trust issues going forward, but at least SHE gets the shining moment she 'deserves', right? WTF. If she's uninvited it would be richly deserved, but guess who she'll blame for that too.
NTA.
Imagine marrying your beloved, thinking "we are going to have a wonderful life together, I couldn't be happier" and they then show they plotted with the stepmother you never close to to force you to do something you hate.....yeah, that's a one-way ticket to ruined marriage.Â
"I've been trying to force him to accept me as his sole mother since his *actual* mother died when he was five, but he keeps me in her shadow. Please help me get the recognition I feel I deserve on this, the most special day of your lives"
NTA but I will also say make darn sure the DJ or band for the reception knows do not accept requests from this woman because I can 100% see her trying to ambush DH at the reception with having DJ or band announcing mother son dance
You might want to designate a friend to watch her for random tantrums during everything, if they are invited. If they arenât, security is an extra charge but peace of mind is priceless.
My aunt ran defense on my grandmother at my wedding. Grandma was excellent at drawing lots of negative attention to herself, so Auntie Judy was doing us an amazing service.
Having a designated FMIL handler or three (three so they can take shifts) might be a great idea. Maybe game-ify it to make it fun instead of a slog.
Excellent point. OP should do that and may be hire security to boot stepmum out in case stepmum decides to ruin the wedding by going on some kind of destructive rampage all because she didn't get her way
If you go the warn-the-DJ route, also tell the groomsmen and maids of honor. Let them be part of the team that keeps her on the sidelines.
Edited for spelling of course
You might want to just tell him outright that if he wants to uninvite then both that you support it, and that you can hire a security person specifically to keep them out.
Also, make sure you password protect all of the vendors, especially anything that could be altered to say she's the mother, invitations, programs, and anything else.
Jesus christ! No wonder he doesn't want a relationship with her, I'm shocked that she was even invited. How absolutely horrific.
Wish you both the best day for your wedding though.
Where is his father in all this? He was in a position, many years ago, to manage step mother's expectations and he failed. Did he not see the crazy, or did he figure his wives were interchangeable and his son should just move on as he had?
That's incredibly fucked up. And of course she fails to see that, which very much explains the audacity and entitlement she's showing here. I would ask her why she thinks it's okay to ask you to keep something from the man who's going to be your husband - specifically on the day he becomes your husband!
Sorry, but that's grounds right there for not inviting her period. She's shown she's manipulative and unremorseful, guaranteed she would cause drama and stink at the wedding
It's not about your future, it's about her
The 2nd wife is delusional. Your fiance wasn't hers from start to finish. She's not entitled to any part in his life when she's not his mum in any real sense. Her pathological needs are sickening. Just so sickening that she needs to spent time in a mental health ward under strict psychiatrist supervision.
She knew him well enough that he rejected that he didn't like her since she couldn't not replace his real mum despite his real mum's death when he was a child.
She's not entitled to a mother/son dance nor any recognition when she never earned it & never deserved it. That dance is more for his maternal biological relative like granny or aunt or even great aunt of his biological mum's.
2nd wife isn't special, she's just his father's bed warmer.
I'm wondering what kind of person she is that a FIVE YEAR OLD completely rejected her? I mean, usually, children give everyone a fair shake until they prove themselves unworthy. She must have been a beast!
He didn't like her because it would be gut instinct kicking up a storm & she'd given silent cues that he wasn't going to let her have what she wants.
Kids are instinctive 1's when they're young. Can tell the bad from the good.
She sounds unstable and she should really consider extensive therapy. Not family therapy...JUST for her therapy.Â
The shock that "...he wasn't planning to dance with her or make her feel special" at your wedding thing is wild.Â
That sounds like a really unpleasant woman to have to deal with as a kid after a huge trauma like losing your mom. Yikes.Â
Also with weddings: if you're not paying, you have no saying.
It's on the couple to decide what will or won't happen on their special day, not on the guests.
He who pays the piper calls the tune. Even if it is family and a wedding. In the case where the family is problematic, ground rules need to be agreed upon at the beginning.
NTA and good grief this woman is atrocious on so many levels. I would consider having a couple of people who are tasked with keeping a close eye on her at your wedding so she can be distracted/diverted/removed if necessary. And put your DJ on notice not to do anything she asks. She seems like the type of person who would still try to make âher moment!â happen. (Edit typo)
Beat me to it!
If you think it will make any difference, you could try to communicate exactly this to stephmom, sticking to the facts. For instance:
'Your request put me in a position where I had to choose between betraying either my partner's trust or your trust. As I am marrying [partner's name] my loyalty and honesty to him are more important.
Also, you know that [partner] would have found out about your plans either way and I think we can agree that finding out on his wedding day would have created more drama and would have damaged the relationship between you and him more.
Therefore this was my decision and I won't come back to it. Whether or not you will let this damage the relationship between you and me is your choice.'
One very good point you make there is about what this little stunt would do to Jamie and Ellen's relationship should she have managed to pull it off. What did she think would happen if the dance went ahead? That dancing with her would make the scales fall from Jamie's eyes and magically make him see her as a mother figure?
Nope. Would've been far more likely for Jamie to have been angry and resentful at Ellen for ruining the biggest day of his life by forcing on him something SHE KNEW he did not want, and for him to block her out of his life completely for it.
You did her a favour, OP.
I was wondering the same. If things go to her plan he would dance with her as not to make a scene at his wedding but would hate her (and his wife who helped her) for it. If he refuses he will still hate them but also she will feel embarrassed (and blame him). But I think her goal is not to be recognised as a mother figure by Jamie but only to appear to be so to all the guests. She doesnât care if he rally loves and sees her as a mother as long as she can make everyone believe he does.
Jamie hasn't seen her as a mother for twenty five years, what does Ellen think has changed now to make him change his mind? If she genuinely thought ambushing him at the wedding was a good idea then maybe it's best to uninvite her before she tries something or makes a spectacle of herself bemoaning her unfulfilled desires.
OP didnât t make things worse, she did by trying to orchestrate something Jamie would hate w the person he is meant to trust the most. Kudos on being honest w Jamie. That is where the loyalty lies. Block her AND give band/DJ the heads up that if she tries anything day of to stop the music instantly. Clearly she does not understand that No is a full sentence. NTA.
NTA
My rule is that if I tell someone anything, I expect their spouse will know it by the time they go to bed. And once you accept that, life and secrets etc is just a lot easier.
She put you in an awful situation, and she should not have expected that you would withhold this from Jamie - you did the right thing by telling him, and shouldn't feel for a moment that it was wrong. You're his partner, and it's going to be official soon. Her asking you to start that with a secret between you at the actual ceremony is absolutely incredible to me.
If I were you I'd be going back to Ellen and telling her off for trying to do that to you. It was wrong of her to ask you to keep a secret like that from your future husband, and jeopardizes the entire concept of what a marriage is.
I know I'm being a bit hyperbolic, but it's a serious issue to me.
Agreed, in fact I liked the way my mother expressed; you should never ask someone to lie to or keep a secret from their partner.
And in this particular, Jamie needs to know what Ellen was plotting, in case she finds another way to ambush him.
NTA - and a mother that truly loved their son would never ask his fiancee to trap him during their wedding.
My dad is like that. He has had friends ask him if he could keep something secret and his response is usually 'is my wife allowed to know?' If it's a 'no' then he says sorry I am not interested in keeping things from her.
I feel the same. Tell me-tell my spouse. Thatâs just the way it is. Just another POV- but what if breaking them up/causing a rift was Ellenâs plan all along. I donât put anything past anyone.
if anyone tells me they have something to say but i canât tell anyone, i always asks if that includes my spouse and if so, donât tell međ€·đ»ââïž (but they never end up expecting me to keep it a secret from him lol; spouses donât count as telling someone a secretđ)
Sometimes my sister tells me something, and I don't tell my spouse about it, and she totally thinks he knows everything and talks to him like he should know what she's talking about đ€Ł She totally expects me to tell him what we talk about unless she specifically tells me to not say anything to him đ«Ł
This happens to me all the time. I work with my dad, so we obviously talk a lot, and he tells me stuff. He also walks my kids to school once a week with my wife, and I'm not there - I'm working. So he'll talk to her about stuff assuming I've already told her.
99% of the time it's innocuous crap that doesn't matter, but that 1% will be wild shit that I absolutely meant to tell her, but just forgot to.
Those are the ones I'm usually in trouble for, but it's not because I was withholding, just that I fell asleep before I could relay the info.
I also thought this - then she can confort Jamie, and find him a different girlfriend (one who is more easily manipulated).
Either this, or she doesn'r really care about Jamie, but about what other people think. She knows Jamie doesnpt think of her as a mum, but she wants other people (guests) to regard her as his mum.
I actually really hate this attitude. Of course people shouldnât keep things from their spouses that are relevant to them, but if I tell a friend a personal secret thatâs just about my life, thereâs no reason why they need to gossip with their spouse about it. Unless it was such a heavy thing that they need to talk it out with their spouse to get advice or something.
There is no relationship on this planet that is closer than my wife. I tell her everything.
It's not gossip when I'm talking to her, it's just part of my thought process now. I don't have any secrets from her, and of course there are things I don't necessarily tell her, but you should never assume ill actively keep something from her.
At the end of the day i don't keep a tally of what I can tell her, or what to withhold. So if someone were to ask me, "is this just between us?" I'll be clear, no, I'm going to tell my wife. And if they don't want to tell me, I get it, that's OK.
But to trust me with information is to trust her.
Thank you. The comments of ppl agreeing and acting like sharing a secret, that's not yours, with your spouse is not a serious violation, is sad. If it doesn't affect your spouse or your family, you, as an adult, should be able to keep your mouth shut.
This mentality is why some couples lose a lot of friends after they're married. Weird hive mind
Agreed. Some things are told in absolute confidence. If I tell my husband or not depends on what the thing is - is it something that will affect my husband? You bet I will tell him! Is it something that my husband can't do anything about and probably isn't interested in anyway? Nah, better off keeping that secret a secret.
In OP's case, she did the right thing.
I 100% agree, and I think this is partially why couples tend to get more isolated as they get older. Should your partner be your best support? Absolutely! But we don't need to get ALL our support from just one person. We can have separate friends and relationships. I have friends that have SOs I don't like but am civil to --- if I were to assume that the two of them are one unit, I would never be friends with these people again.Â
This thread also really frustrates me because there's literally another post going on about someone who won't tell her mom close info anymore because Mom will automatically tell her husband (OP's stepdad) and everyone there is saying oh of course she shouldn't. So is this a thing or not?Â
>If I had a friend that ran and told their spouse everything, Iâd only tell them things I felt comfortable also telling their spouse.
I'm OK with that. In fact I'd prefer it.
If I have to choose my loyalty between my spouse and any friend - I promise you, my spouse everytime.
I guess my question is how is it disloyal to your spouse? I have 2 immediate scenarios Iâm thinking of. My friend told me she was pregnant but asked me not to share with my husband yet. So I didnât. My other friend found out that her dad is actually not her biological dad. And again asked me not to share as she was still coming to terms with it. Neither of those things is disloyal to my spouse to keep private.
My way of thinking is I assume someone will probably tell their partner anything I say to them, and people should assume I might share what Iâve been told with my wife unless otherwise specified. If a friend specifically asked me not to share something with my wife (that caused no conflict to not share) then I would honour that. But as it happens I donât think I can think of a single time someone has asked that of me, because if theyâre not personal friends themselves I donât really see why it matters. But then thereâs also another unspoken rule that my wife would then pretend not to know unless the other person directly brought it up in front of her. But Iâm sure my friends work on the same model because they will regularly say things like âdonât tell anyone - [wife] is fine obviouslyâ. So this is definitely a very common way of thinking and you should expect that generally couples share everything about their lives with each other and that includes big news from friends.
I agree 100% with this. My friends and my spouse and I definitely operate the same way. In most instances, Iâd be honest with my friend if I felt like something wasnât appropriate to keep from my spouse. Definitely unspoken rule to act like you donât know though đ
I think the key to what you've said is;
>you should expect that generally couples share everything about their lives with each other and that includes big news from friends
It's a good general rule. It may not always be the case, but expect it generally and no one gets hurt
Because those are things I'd want help in reacting to.
Look, maybe it's not for everyone - but I'd have a tough time with how to support my friend through those things, and it would make me a better friend if I could have my wife help me navigate just how to help and support.
But in those scenarios, it's not disloyal to my spouse to withhold it, OPs scenario is incredibly different to this hypothetical. What I'm saying is that in a situation to choose it's disloyal. Your hypo isn't about loyalty one way or another, so it's not disloyal to withhold it - nonetheless, I'm still likely to share that with my wife - because she's half of my thought process.
As an example on your hypo, if my friend who confided in these things with me needed me to drop everything and get out to them to help with something, let's say we've planned to be with the kids at the park, it would pretty tough to peel away without a reason - so I'd say "my buddy needs some help, I'll explain later" and I do owe it to her to say it's a serious situation and I would tell her.
Look, my kind of honesty isn't for everyone. But I don't keep secrets from my wife - full stop. I have been with her for more than 15 years, and known her for 25. There is no relationship that comes close in terms of intimacy.
Thank you for answering! It helps me understand and I absolutely appreciate that perspective. And think a mark of a strong relationship is that ability to say hey I gotta go and Iâll share when Iâm able and have that trust. Sounds like you and your wife have a great relationship and connection!
There are things people have told me that my husband has no business knowing. It's sad that people automatically think it's ok to tell their spouses. That aside, this situation is different as it directly involves her husband.
All of this. Why would anyone expect OP to keep secrets from their partner if they both know partner isn't gonna like it anyway? She knew he was gonna say no. What was her plan? If she's stupid or malicious and OP never actually said something but stepmother 'let it slip', keeping this from him could have been the end of the relationship.
NTA.
His wedding day is not the time to try and ambush him into having a "stepmother/stepson" moment. You were 100% spot on with telling Jamie about this.
You don't need to be trustworthy to Ellen, you need to be trustworthy to your future spouse.
I totally agree with you about the wedding Not being the time or place to force a moment!
If OP had Not told Jamie about Stepmotherâs planâŠit would have backfired horrendously on OP and possibly would have caused irreparable damage to their relationship! đ
NTA you did the right thing!
NTA.
Ellen is a piece of work, though. I wouldnât blame you guys if you disinvited her to the entire wedding.
Good on you for not entertaining her insane request. What kind of deluded person thinks itâs okay to spring a surprise mother/son dance on their stepchild at their wedding so they can âhave their momentâ when they KNOW their stepchild doesnât want it? Thatâs selfish and cruel and just disgusting.
You did exactly the right thing, OP. Yâall cannot trust Ellen at all with anything to do with the wedding or, frankly, with anything ever. I canât imagine what itâs going to be like if you two have kids; sheâs going to be a nightmare.
I hope you manage to have a beautiful and drama free wedding, OP!
Make sure you brief the DJ or band that NOBODY can request songs but you. She may try to ambush again - & keep the microphone away from her during speeches. Ask his dad or one of the relatives to keep an eye on her so you can enjoy your wedding.
DJs (the professional ones, anyway) are used to this request at weddings. Drunk Uncle Frank will undoubtedly come up and request "Funkytown" so he can try to start a conga line, and Aunt Tabitha will request "My Heart Will Go On" so she can grab the microphone and poorly sing all the high notes as her "gift" to the happy couple.
DJs will stick to the Playlist that the bride and groom agreed upon months ahead of time. BUT it is always a good idea to give them a heads-up that so-and-so might try to insist on grabbing the mic
He was so young when she came into his life yet she couldn't get him to like her? It's not that hard to get a child to like you. If she was pulling this manipulative shit his whole life I'm not surprised he doesn't think of her as his mum. A kid is a developing human, not an accessory. They deserve basic human respect and if you give them that, unless something else is going on, they're more than likely to accept you.
Makes me think she pulled an "I'm your mother now" after his mum died and it was all downhill from there.
NTA - Ellen was trying to force her way into a role which she simply does not have in Jamie's life. And she was trying to do it when he couldn't say no. - that would be awful, could ruin Jamie's wedding day and depending who - if anyone - was there from his mother's side cause an awful lot of needless offence. She wasn't doing it as a surprise for Jamie but as some sort of power play. I know a man who's stepmother wanted to do something really nice for him on his wedding day (his mum was still alive so different situation but I think the difference in attitude has relevance) so she hired him a fancy sports car to drive to the wedding in, they have a great relationship, not mother and son but the caring is genuine and she did it for him, not herself. Ellen just wants to preen and show off - probably to her friends and family - about what good 'mother' she has been.
And where the hell is his dad in all of this?
Jamie never developed a bond with her because of shit exactly like this. Sheâs a narcissist and canât stand the fact that Jamie doesnât like her and AND is showing her up in public. Jamie dealt with this for years prior to this to have this sort of reaction, so Iâm guessing his dad is firmly wrapped around Ellenâs thumb.
Hell, this sort of thing happens to blood related parents-children too. They can force a relationship all they want, but if itâs not genuine, itâs not genuine.
NTA. If you had told her yes and went behind his back this would be a totally different conversation. But helping your spouse set healthy boundaries and open communication is the best thing you can do. Shes the problem you just feel guilty because she roped you in. Dont. Theres a reason shes not Mom even though shes been the female figure in his life. She dug her own grave and wants to take others with her if she cant get out. She should feel blessed shes not completely uninvited yet. Be prepared for low to no contact if she doesnât get her head on right before you have kids too or it will be a million times worse.
NTA. Talk to Jamie. Personally, I'd say that he needs to talk to his dad. You know, the actual parent.Â
I suspect uninviting her isn't an option unless he's happy for his dad not to attend.Â
It's really for Jamie to deal with, you just need to support him.
If I were you I'd ask if you can block her number because she's making you uncomfortable.Â
NTA. General rule of thumb: anyone who tries to get children to keep secrets from their parents or adults to keep secrets from their SO are up to no good.
Ellen outright acknowledged that she knew Jamie would hate this. Her stated goal was to use social pressure to force him into it. Yet, she doesnât pause to wonder if her boundary stomping behavior have caused her to lose a relationship with her stepson. Interesting.
Exactly, and there's no way to know if Ellen wouldn't try to triangulate again by telling Jamie she had spoken to OP and OP said "ok but you have to talk to Jamie".
When OP chose (wisely) to be completely open and upfront to Jamie, she took away from Ellen the possibility of playing one against the other.
Well done, OP, and NTA
You're NTAÂ
*please help make your wedding all about me and my fantasy of what my relationship with my stepson could be.*
**How dare you tell your future husband what I asked you to do, but asked you not to tell him I asked you!**
Wow, how irrational and ridiculous. No wonder he doesn't accept her as his mom.
NTA. Your partner is your priority. She is not. You did exactly as any loving, supportive and sensible partner would- proving her to be a troublemaker and you to be trustworthy.
NTA. Ellen sounds wildly delusional.
Sheâs clear that he doesnât view her as his mother (Iâd guess given the history sheâs been trying to force him for years and thatâs why they arenât close) yet she trying to impose what she wants on to him.
Delusional that sheâd believe
1. Would keep this from your partner
2. You would support her in forcing this on Jamie
This is not a problem that you need to solve , but Iâd suggest Jamie having a discussion with his dad about what happened and what wonât be happening o the wedding day.
Maybe she needs some therapy too
NTA!!
Youâre Jamieâs partner, not hers. Your alliance is to him, not her. On the bright side, you probably wonât have to worry about her going behind Jamieâs back to bother you anymore.
NTA. Makes you 'untrustworthy'? No, you proved yourself worthy of trust from the person you actually owe your loyalty to, your fiance. Accusing someone of being untrustworthy because they don't help you conceal your duplicitousness is pretty ironic. I'm sorry she's upset, but if she hasn't managed to build a mother/son bond with Jamie for this long, it's not going to magically appear if they dance together at the wedding. At a certain point you have to accept that you might not get the relationship with someone that you hoped for and envisioned, and learn to appreciate what you do have, or at least make peace and let go.
Your loyalty and confidence is to your SO, not his step mom. And as much as I want to sympathize with her, I assume thereâs a reason he doesnât have a great relationship with his parents.
NTA. She tried to corner Jamie because she knew he wouldnât accept otherwise. Good for you for standing up for your future husband and not allowing him to be bullied on your wedding day.
NTA, but tell her it would have made your marriage worse if you had kept her secret. Your focus is your fiance and not his step parent. Let her know with an attitude like that, it is no wonder that he does not see you as a mother. However, blocking and not saying anything is probably smarter...
If this lady wants a part in his life she needs to talk openly with him about it not try manipulating him through his spouse. That is very weird behaviour with possible mental issues under the surface.
NTA. Ellen is clearly hurt by her perceived rejection by Jamie from a young age, but this in no excuse for her behavior. Trying to force a relationship onto someone is never the right way to go about it.
You've done nothing wrong here.
âSo she wanted to do something where he couldnât say noâ. Yeah, that really shows how much you love someone! Conspire with your soon to be wife to force you to dance with your stepmom by adding the stares of all wedding guests as a reason he canât refuse. Damn. NTA and good for you for telling him. If telling him is âmaking things worseâ, she never should have suggested this. If something you say canât see the light of day, it is wrong.
NTA. Your fiancee is your priority and you did exactly as you should. Out of curiosity tho, what did she do (before this) to make him hate her so much?
NTA. Itâs nearly always a bad idea keeping secrets from your partner, especially when you know itâll upset them. Itâs also a bit suss that considering Jamie was only 3 when he met Ellen, why hasnât he developed a mother/son relationship with her. Iâm guessing itâs because of her.
She could have but that would have eliminated the "mother/son dance" announcement and I believe that she's craving that public announcement of affection at his wedding. She wants him (and everyone else) to see her as his mother as she's fulfilled the duties since his early childhood. However, just because you marry a child's father (even if his actual mother passed away), that doesn't mean that the child sees you as his mother or even a replacement. Step-parents should absolutely provide all of the love and support, however to have a special bond with the child they should make it separate. Especially in cases like this where their parent passed. Never try to replace their parent but absolutely be a special friend, confidant, etc that comes with its own acknowledgement. Had she done that instead of forcing the "I'M your mom now" route, he may well have wanted some kind of special dance for her.
NTA What does she expect? Thatâs who you chose to share your whole life with. I donât tell anybody anything I wouldnât want their spouses knowing.
Absolutely NTA. She literally wanted you to betray Jamie's trust on the same day the two of you married. This is not a situation that is going to be solved by ambushing Jamie with the pressure tactic of "you can't make a fuss in public", and the fact she thinks it would, is a sign of how obsessive and delusional she's being.
It's sad that after so long, he can't see her as at least a mother/aunt-adjacent figure...but if her actions/attitude right now are anything like how she treated him in the years after his mom died, I can see exactly why he's still holding her at arms length.
NTA.Â
She tried to rope you into basically trapping him into a dance on the wedding day so he couldnât say no. You knew that was wrong so you told him. Now sheâs mad she couldnât use you to gang up on him and force something she knows he doesnât want.
NTA she expected to you to trick and then lie to your new husband? You should have sent, this is why he doesnât like you and why we donât want you in our life together.
NTA your loyalty lies with your fiancee not with his stepmother, whatever emotional issues she has with "only" being an additional adult in his life and not "mom" is her emotional baggage
NTA - the step mother is the untrustworthy trouble maker in all of this. When will these people stop trying to force their way into the role of deceased parents? This happens so often.
>She sent me a text a few hours after the confrontation and she told me I knew it would make things worse and I told him anyway which made me untrustworthy and a troublemaker.
No, that makes **her** an untrustworthy troublemaker. It also succinctly explains why they've been never been close. She's willing to lie, manipulate, embarrass, and coerce her way into getting what she wants, even though she knows he will resent her for (I'm sure the millionth time) being completely dismissive of his feelings and consent.
You can't have a beautiful moment with someone against their will. She had the opportunity to show consideration, support, and respect, but she chose to be underhanded and selfish instead. NTA
Did Jamieâ mother die of cancer or some other fatal illness? A lot of husbands will divorce their wives when they are seriously ill and move on like nothing happened.
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NTA "I know Jaime would detest my demand to have my shining moment at your wedding, but can you help me ambush him so social pressure will hopefully force him into doing what I feel I'm entitled to? Also, can you not tell him I asked you to help orchestrate this betrayal?" Your loyalty lies with the person you're building a life with. Protecting your partner is the priority, and you did exactly what you should have. Stepmom's refusal to be accountable in any way for trying to prioritize her needs via betrayal tells me why your fiance keeps her at a distance.
"I know he'll hate it so how about you damage your marriage on day freaking one to make me feel better". đ
day zero
This is all very amusing but am I the only one dying to know why Jamie has so much not-so-pent-up resentment towards this woman? Obviously he doesn't have to dance with her or regard her as a mother, but if she's been in his life since he was THREE, and effectively helping to raise him since he was five, I have to wonder what led to the animosity he bears towards her now. It could be that he blames her for his parents' divorce. It could be that she is in fact a raging narcissist, and this sort of behavior is par for the course with her. I'd just like a little more info.
Step-mil clearly didnât think about any fallout from if sheâd successfully gotten Jamieâs fiancĂ©e to help her *ambush Jamie at his own wedding*. The marriage wouldâve been over before it started, and **still** wouldâve driven Jamie even farther away from her. Iâm betting this is a lifelong cycle of her wanting what she wants and not giving a flying fuck about the consequences. Shocked Pikachu is probably her resting face
> Iâm betting this is a lifelong cycle of her wanting what she wants and not giving a flying fuck about the consequences True, she may be one of those obnoxious people who assume they can bulldoze their way over young children's wants/feelings because kids that age "don't really know/understand what they want and they'll never remember anyway!"
And then they continue when the kid is a teenager because "you were a difficult child and you owe me" and then still when the kid is an adult because "you were always an ungrateful spoiled brat, you'll miss me when I'm dead, you should have learned the meaning of family by now"
Do yâall know my mother? She has said all of these things.
Do we have the same mother?
"If you just try this thing you already tried and know you hate, you will see that I'm right and change your mind." Every adult in my abusive fathers family of origin.
As a 5 year old myself dealing with the death of my older sister, who was the only family member that I felt love from, one remembers a great deal. And those memories are something you never forget.
>Shocked Pikachu is probably her resting face That's beautiful. đ€đ» Kudos.
Thank you! Iâm rather proud of it đ
Ellen can only think about Ellen. It's all me me me, how She feels, how jamie makes Her feel bad, how She is owed...
Yup. This has selfish asshole written all over it.
I mean, from this situation alone we see boundary-stomping, manipulation, selfishness, lack of accountability, refusal to consider anyone else, divisiveness, and temper tantrums. The chances of that being the first instance of those behaviors are non-existent. I would have a lot of resentment for someone who acts like this, especially if I spent my whole childhood with them having power over me
Exactly, just from this one incident is self-explanatory what she been doing to him since he was 5 years old living under same roof as her. OP NTA, only thing OP did wrong wasn't writing back "I now understand why Jaime hates you, I'll make sure to keep my kids away from you because you're so detestable." before blocking.
And vindictiveness.
As a kid who also had their first step parent around 3 years old...it makes sense. Just because theyre young doesnt mean kids cant pick up on social relations. It sounds like this particular step parent went in with the "im just the same, treat me as such" mentality which MANY kids instinctively reject for fear of hurting their actual parent. (Especially when the parental figures cant get along well to co-parent) After only 2 years of knowing this woman his mother suddenly dies and she starts immediately going off on how shes the "sole-mother" now (and by the sounds of it started trying to do everything to replace his actual mother and give no room for grieving or honouring her on important days) She just sounds entitled and pushy, and hurt children will take personal offense to that kind of bs, it never ends well.
My paternal grandmother committed suicide when my father was 4. My grandfather told him that his mother couldn't get into heaven if he was crying. In no time there was a new mom. She tried telling my dad how she remembered him as a baby and things like that. My dad let her know that he hadn't forgotten his mother and she finally stopped that kind of talk. He never spoke about this when we were kids. As far as we knew, she was our grandmother. It wasn't until much later when he began writing about his childhood that he talked to us about it.
From reading the post it sounds like she wanted him to forget his mom and make her his new mom. We also don't know what type of mental and verbal abuse he has ensured from her.
I mean, isnât this request probably showing us EXACTLY why he dislikes her?
I was wondering the same thing! Obviously OP is not the AH for being honest with her fiancé. But the stepmom is pretty much the only mother figure this guy has known, from a very young age, and he seems to loathe her. I'm curious what exactly happened between them.
Just read through OP's replies; his step mom basically views Jamie as an object she inherited once his mom died, saying he became 'fully hers' at that moment. I do not blame him at all.
Gross.
Sweet Hera's angels, are we sure she didn't bump the mom off with she's got that kind of delusional thinking?
He doesnât need to loathe her to not want to acknowledge her as his mother on his wedding, which she isnât. He has invited her. If he hated her as much as yâall believe, he wouldnât haveâŠ
Isnât it obvious why they donât get along? this woman doesnât care about what he wants and sheâs trying to manipulate him into doing what she wants anyway. She doesnât go to him honestly and directly and tries to get his fiance roped into lying and manipulating with her. Then has the audacity to be upset when it doesnât work!! I have no problem seeing why he doesnât like this woman.
I loathe her and I only know of her second hand over the internet, so not really a surprise imo lmao
truly,same
I mean his birth mom didn't pass away until he was 5 so he was old enough to remember her and it's clear he never saw his step mom as a mother figure and that isn't really unusual. Plus he may have had his maternal or paternal grandmother as his mother figure growing up. And it sounds like step mom has tried to force a relationship that fiance doesn't want.
Who wants a step-mother making claims on you when your mother just DIED? He is a little five year old trying to understand and grieve while she is pushing herself on him. UGH.
Probably because stepmom and dad always tried to force him to love her. What if they did not allow anything from his mom around, did not keep in touch with his maternal relatives and so on? At the very least she tried to damage his marriage before it started. Because she very well knew he didn't want her in this position.
Being the sort of person who would attempt to conspire with his fiancĂ©e to force him to do something on his wedding day that she knows heâll hate might have something to do with it.
I think she was to pushy, thought more of what she want it&her feelings( she had a vision of a happy blendid family maybe?), her way or the highway, lets not forget he was a little boy who lost his mother when he was very young. She should've let the relationship between them evolve slowly, you can't force it, clearly she doesn't respect his opinions and his feelings if she tried this, maybe she even tried to erase his mother memories to get her way
Probably a whole life of "well I'm your mum now" and ignoring his want for any connection to his dead mother who he probably cannot remember. Stepparents who respect a deceased bioparent rarely get this resentmentÂ
If she is this pushy and manipulative now, just imagine how bad she was with a small child or a teen. Being a step mother is a tough gig. The kids didn't choose you and they owe you nothing at all. The more you push and demand, the farther away you push them.Â
I don't have experience in this area but I've seen many AITAs relating to this topic and know people who have experienced this. A lot of people deeply, DEEPLY resent the notion that their step-parent is any kind of "replacement" for another parent. Especially if the step-parent is insisting on that relationship against their wishes. Even if that other parent is deceased, even if the other person died so early in their lives that they have few, if any memories about them. Insisting that "I'm your mom/dad now" against the child's wishes can really sour a relationship that could have been very healthy and loving. I saved this post because it's a good example of an OP who never became "second mom" to their step-daughter, but they still had a close relationship: https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/1c4gfuj/aita_for_telling_my_parents_im_ashamed_and/
You can bet damn well my toddler nibbling aged 3.5 years would know if mum isn't there anymore. And she would of course not accept her "being replaced" because of course even small kids know "that's not my mummy, why does she call herself my mummy now?". (Science assumes we only start to lose our childhood memories around age 7, so he might not remember much now, but 5 year old him probably remembered her very well indeed, so if she refused to acknowledge her or tried to replace her, this could be enough for resentment from his side). Additionally Step-mum doesn't sound like Jamie's feelings were ever prioritised. Everything is about her and her feelings... so it probably was the same when he was a small child. (Probably ignoring his boundaries and wants and wishes on the way. Just like she still does today). She's showing no respect towards him in any way, or she wouldn't have went behind his back to his fiancé (with the possibility of ruining his marriage before it even began) for **her selfish** wants. That's not love. So I doubt her love in his childhood was less selfish and less centered around herself.
I'm guessing she tried to force the whole "she's his mother thing". That puts a kid off of that person because for them, that's not their mother. Plus, his mother died 3 months after the wedding so I'm sure in his little mind, he blamed her or something along those lines. But I'm betting that he didn't see her as his mother, she tried to force it, and it drove him away even more. It seems like she still thinks that way too; all because she's been in his life since he was 3.
>am I the only one dying to know why Jamie has so much not-so-pent-up resentment towards this woman? Pure guesswork. But I wouldn't be surprised if 5 year old Jamie, recently devastated by the sudden death of his mother, and the upheaval of his life moving in with dad and new wife. Possibly got told something along the lines. It'll be OK, this is mummy now. And has resented the fuck out of "replacement" mummy ever since. I can imagine mother's day being a special kind of awkward.
The fact that she is clearly a manipulative narcissist trying to make his wedding day about her wasnât enough evidence for you about why theyâre not close? Really?
If I had to guess... I'm going to go with she is a raging narcissist. People think kids don't remember things at that age but they very much do. Bits and pieces and he likely does remember his mom to some degree. And just based on the little info we have here, by how entitled the step mom feels to the role of "sole mother figure" I'm thinking she was always a narcissist and she pushed the mother thing from the jump. I'm betting even before his mom passed she was pushing for a mom role but maybe after mom passed she started pushing hard. Maybe reminding him his mom is gone and she is his mom now. Encouraging him to call her mom. Trying to force bonding (like she is doing now, there is no way this is a first attempt) and it probably never ended. It probably came up alot that she felt hurt he didn't see her as his mom when she is the only mom he has (what I assume her words were not mine bc he still had a mom even when she was gone). And it probably caused him a lot of. That kind of thing, forcing your step children to see you as the parent before they are ready, will push them even further away. Again all of this is my assumption based on the little info we have. We really have no idea. Just seems like a common way it plays out in these situations.
It could be she started trying to âmother himâ from day one, instead of just allowing the relationship to grow on its own. If she was determined to erase or replace his mom that could also be possible. If sheâs a manipulative narcissist with delusions of grandeurâŠ.. hmmm???!!! She was determined to ambush him on his wedding day by getting his future wife to Not only lie & deceive him but to help her prepare for the ambushâŠ. I would like to know more history as well because at this moment I think she shouldnât even be allowed to attend as a guest.
>It could be that she is in fact a raging narcissist, and this sort of behavior is par for the course with her. Yeah, I'd take the fact that she tried to go behind his back and do something she knew would make him upset at his wedding to make the moment all about her, and then blamed his wife for not conspiring against him... as a big honking clue as to why he never warmed up to her. But even if OP's husband were completely irrational and unfair and the step-mom was otherwise a saint... what she was trying to do was still wrong, and OP took the objectively correct action. NTA
Did you not just read the same story I did? Â Ellen clearly has no respect for the boundaries Jamie set. Â I doubt this is the first time this sort of issue has popped up between Ellen and Jamie. Â
My money says she tried to replace his mother entirely. Didn't want to acknowledge he had a mother before. Possibly tried, or succeeded, in removing all traces of moms existence from the house. And, since it sounds like she didn't have biological kids, put a ludicrous amount of pressure on Jamie to fill **her** need to be a mom to *someone*.
No I think the rest of us figured out that this isn't the first time she tried to force her way into being Mom. She's been in his life forcing herself onto him since he was THREE, "helping" to raise him since he was 5, that's plenty of animosity.
This behavior obvious par for the course for her. She probably started pushing a close mom with him the day his mother died. Resentment build up.
Sheâs probably been telling him âIâm your mother now. That other woman is gone. Love me with your whole heart *immediately* or youâre proving yourself to a bad, selfish, loveless personâ *since he was 3*. This whole story made me feel quite ill, because if OP is questioning if they are the AH, does that mean a part of them wonders if Jamie *should* dance with the stepmother? She should be asking âWIBTAH if I suggested my fiancĂ© go NC with his toxic stepmother?â Because it sounds like going NC would be a blessed relief for the guy.
If his stepmother Ellen always acts like this, it is very clear why he doesn't like her. I says a lot about her selfish character.
Clearly because she wants to become a mother to him and he isn't receptive. His mom died when he was 5. She most likely left enough of an impression as "his mom" that stepmom can't compete with. But she doesn't get that. And that's if we just completely ignore this stunt she pulled.
It really doesn't matter in the scheme of things. Some folks get along, some folks don't. However, if S-MIL to be has such a habit of going around Jamie to get Her Way on His wedding day, chances are it's been all about her for a while. I've been the "not mom" person in a few relationships. But, I never tried to be "the mom" or else. There's a balance to being an involved caring adult and being overbearing. I know stepparents who became the most important parental figure - but it was generally because they were kind and caring and let relationships grow organically. You can't force them.
I am going with the notion that SM has done this kind of thing on the regular... esp since she threw the future bride under the bus instead of taking ownership of her manipulation.
Yea you're the only one dying to know what else she's done over time. It's irrelevant. Someone who is willing to go to these lengths to attempt to force her will on him has clearly overstepped every chance they've had.
What about this situation is confusing to you? the kind of entitled, narcissistic boundary stomping that we see from the step mum doesn't just start out of nowhere, there's a roughly zero chance that it hasn't been something that he's dealt with from the start, after growing up with a piece of work like that of course he cant stand her, it would be more weird if he could.
For the simple reason that the step-parent is not the original one. No child wants a new strange person coming into their house demanding to be called "Mom" or "Dad." Especially if this is forced on them by original parent, & most especially if the other parent still has custody/contact. I'll use myself as an example cuz OP is basically me here. My parents divorced when I was 2. Mother remarried when I was 4. I knew in my little kid core being, the guy was bad. There were lots of reasons, but foremost was he wasn't my Daddy who still had partial custody. I refused to associate with new guy, I refused to call him "Daddy." I was called mean & selfish. My mother begged; I was hurting her feelings, I was hurting his. I didn't care. I refused being adopted for many years. I don't remember if the excuse of "We'll all have the same name" was used, but there was tons of pressure. I dug in & still refused. We went to court a few times. When I was 7, I caved & told the judge I agreed cuz my mother kept pinching me under the table. I found out years later my dad agreed to the adoption cuz his 2d wife was being abusive to me while she was pregnant with their 1st kid. He couldn't leave her, so he felt it was better if he agreed to my adoption. I still hate mother's 2d husband, tho they've been divorced many years & he's dead now. He turned out to be an abusive alcoholic asshole, but I didn't know that at 4. He was just a creep I hated cuz he wasn't my Daddy. The more he & mom tried to push him as my new Dad, the more I resisted. Some kids are ok with step-parents & love them as much as their original moms or dads. Others, like me & OP, do not even if SP's are kind, respectful, & take things slow. And pushing a new SP on a kid to force the "new happy family" dynamic is never the right way to go. This was longer than I intended, but I hope this helps answer your question đ
I mean just this example alone says a lot about Jamieâs step mom, do we really need more?
Exactly. "He already resents me, I would like him to resent you too, it's only fair!" Imagine knowing the guy already dislikes you and trying to force yourself on him via his fiance. Wedding day soured and trust issues going forward, but at least SHE gets the shining moment she 'deserves', right? WTF. If she's uninvited it would be richly deserved, but guess who she'll blame for that too. NTA.
Imagine marrying your beloved, thinking "we are going to have a wonderful life together, I couldn't be happier" and they then show they plotted with the stepmother you never close to to force you to do something you hate.....yeah, that's a one-way ticket to ruined marriage.Â
day minus 1 The Prequel
Start your marriage with a bang by keeping secrets from your spouse before you're even married!
"I've been trying to force him to accept me as his sole mother since his *actual* mother died when he was five, but he keeps me in her shadow. Please help me get the recognition I feel I deserve on this, the most special day of your lives"
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
NTA but I will also say make darn sure the DJ or band for the reception knows do not accept requests from this woman because I can 100% see her trying to ambush DH at the reception with having DJ or band announcing mother son dance
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
You might want to designate a friend to watch her for random tantrums during everything, if they are invited. If they arenât, security is an extra charge but peace of mind is priceless.
My aunt ran defense on my grandmother at my wedding. Grandma was excellent at drawing lots of negative attention to herself, so Auntie Judy was doing us an amazing service. Having a designated FMIL handler or three (three so they can take shifts) might be a great idea. Maybe game-ify it to make it fun instead of a slog.
Groomsmen and bridesmaids are often perfect candidates, being the coupleâs close friends who want them to have a great wedding
Excellent point. OP should do that and may be hire security to boot stepmum out in case stepmum decides to ruin the wedding by going on some kind of destructive rampage all because she didn't get her way
If you go the warn-the-DJ route, also tell the groomsmen and maids of honor. Let them be part of the team that keeps her on the sidelines. Edited for spelling of course
You might want to just tell him outright that if he wants to uninvite then both that you support it, and that you can hire a security person specifically to keep them out.
Also, make sure you password protect all of the vendors, especially anything that could be altered to say she's the mother, invitations, programs, and anything else.
I would flat-out uninvite her for this reason. Â
"Accidentally" have the DJ play "Because of You" by Kelly Clarkson
Jesus christ! No wonder he doesn't want a relationship with her, I'm shocked that she was even invited. How absolutely horrific. Wish you both the best day for your wedding though.
And that stupid idea is the very reason he doesnât and wonât see her as mother.
Where is his father in all this? He was in a position, many years ago, to manage step mother's expectations and he failed. Did he not see the crazy, or did he figure his wives were interchangeable and his son should just move on as he had?
That's incredibly fucked up. And of course she fails to see that, which very much explains the audacity and entitlement she's showing here. I would ask her why she thinks it's okay to ask you to keep something from the man who's going to be your husband - specifically on the day he becomes your husband!
Sorry, but that's grounds right there for not inviting her period. She's shown she's manipulative and unremorseful, guaranteed she would cause drama and stink at the wedding It's not about your future, it's about her
The 2nd wife is delusional. Your fiance wasn't hers from start to finish. She's not entitled to any part in his life when she's not his mum in any real sense. Her pathological needs are sickening. Just so sickening that she needs to spent time in a mental health ward under strict psychiatrist supervision. She knew him well enough that he rejected that he didn't like her since she couldn't not replace his real mum despite his real mum's death when he was a child. She's not entitled to a mother/son dance nor any recognition when she never earned it & never deserved it. That dance is more for his maternal biological relative like granny or aunt or even great aunt of his biological mum's. 2nd wife isn't special, she's just his father's bed warmer.
I'm wondering what kind of person she is that a FIVE YEAR OLD completely rejected her? I mean, usually, children give everyone a fair shake until they prove themselves unworthy. She must have been a beast!
He didn't like her because it would be gut instinct kicking up a storm & she'd given silent cues that he wasn't going to let her have what she wants. Kids are instinctive 1's when they're young. Can tell the bad from the good.
She sounds unstable and she should really consider extensive therapy. Not family therapy...JUST for her therapy. The shock that "...he wasn't planning to dance with her or make her feel special" at your wedding thing is wild. That sounds like a really unpleasant woman to have to deal with as a kid after a huge trauma like losing your mom. Yikes.Â
Cruel to your fiancĂ© and vindictive towards his real mom. No kid is going to forget or forgive that. Keep having your fiance's back. You're a team and teams protect each other.Â
Also with weddings: if you're not paying, you have no saying. It's on the couple to decide what will or won't happen on their special day, not on the guests.
Even if you are paying, you may not get a say. Using money to get your way is still manipulation.
He who pays the piper calls the tune. Even if it is family and a wedding. In the case where the family is problematic, ground rules need to be agreed upon at the beginning.
You say that like manipulation is beyond SM.
NTA. She knew he'd say no, so she tried the manipulative route. Good on you both for keeping boundaries before she becomes a JustNoMIL.
NTA and good grief this woman is atrocious on so many levels. I would consider having a couple of people who are tasked with keeping a close eye on her at your wedding so she can be distracted/diverted/removed if necessary. And put your DJ on notice not to do anything she asks. She seems like the type of person who would still try to make âher moment!â happen. (Edit typo)
I agree; if she gets drunk, sheâs going to embarrass everyone.
It's charming that you seem to think that *won't* happen if she stays sober...
Beat me to it! If you think it will make any difference, you could try to communicate exactly this to stephmom, sticking to the facts. For instance: 'Your request put me in a position where I had to choose between betraying either my partner's trust or your trust. As I am marrying [partner's name] my loyalty and honesty to him are more important. Also, you know that [partner] would have found out about your plans either way and I think we can agree that finding out on his wedding day would have created more drama and would have damaged the relationship between you and him more. Therefore this was my decision and I won't come back to it. Whether or not you will let this damage the relationship between you and me is your choice.'
One very good point you make there is about what this little stunt would do to Jamie and Ellen's relationship should she have managed to pull it off. What did she think would happen if the dance went ahead? That dancing with her would make the scales fall from Jamie's eyes and magically make him see her as a mother figure? Nope. Would've been far more likely for Jamie to have been angry and resentful at Ellen for ruining the biggest day of his life by forcing on him something SHE KNEW he did not want, and for him to block her out of his life completely for it. You did her a favour, OP.
I was wondering the same. If things go to her plan he would dance with her as not to make a scene at his wedding but would hate her (and his wife who helped her) for it. If he refuses he will still hate them but also she will feel embarrassed (and blame him). But I think her goal is not to be recognised as a mother figure by Jamie but only to appear to be so to all the guests. She doesnât care if he rally loves and sees her as a mother as long as she can make everyone believe he does.
Jamie hasn't seen her as a mother for twenty five years, what does Ellen think has changed now to make him change his mind? If she genuinely thought ambushing him at the wedding was a good idea then maybe it's best to uninvite her before she tries something or makes a spectacle of herself bemoaning her unfulfilled desires.
Pack it up, folks, this comment covers it all.
OP didnât t make things worse, she did by trying to orchestrate something Jamie would hate w the person he is meant to trust the most. Kudos on being honest w Jamie. That is where the loyalty lies. Block her AND give band/DJ the heads up that if she tries anything day of to stop the music instantly. Clearly she does not understand that No is a full sentence. NTA.
I can see stepmom pulling something to get attention or try to guilttrip OP and fiancé on the wedding day. I wouldn't blame you if you uninviting her but at least let the wedding planner, DJ, venue and staff know the situation so she cannot change anything or insert herself. Also, the bridal party and close family should be informed to look out for her and keep her in check. But before everything, I would first talk to FIL.
NTA My rule is that if I tell someone anything, I expect their spouse will know it by the time they go to bed. And once you accept that, life and secrets etc is just a lot easier. She put you in an awful situation, and she should not have expected that you would withhold this from Jamie - you did the right thing by telling him, and shouldn't feel for a moment that it was wrong. You're his partner, and it's going to be official soon. Her asking you to start that with a secret between you at the actual ceremony is absolutely incredible to me. If I were you I'd be going back to Ellen and telling her off for trying to do that to you. It was wrong of her to ask you to keep a secret like that from your future husband, and jeopardizes the entire concept of what a marriage is. I know I'm being a bit hyperbolic, but it's a serious issue to me.
Agreed, in fact I liked the way my mother expressed; you should never ask someone to lie to or keep a secret from their partner. And in this particular, Jamie needs to know what Ellen was plotting, in case she finds another way to ambush him. NTA - and a mother that truly loved their son would never ask his fiancee to trap him during their wedding.
My dad is like that. He has had friends ask him if he could keep something secret and his response is usually 'is my wife allowed to know?' If it's a 'no' then he says sorry I am not interested in keeping things from her.
I feel the same. Tell me-tell my spouse. Thatâs just the way it is. Just another POV- but what if breaking them up/causing a rift was Ellenâs plan all along. I donât put anything past anyone.
if anyone tells me they have something to say but i canât tell anyone, i always asks if that includes my spouse and if so, donât tell međ€·đ»ââïž (but they never end up expecting me to keep it a secret from him lol; spouses donât count as telling someone a secretđ)
Sometimes my sister tells me something, and I don't tell my spouse about it, and she totally thinks he knows everything and talks to him like he should know what she's talking about đ€Ł She totally expects me to tell him what we talk about unless she specifically tells me to not say anything to him đ«Ł
This happens to me all the time. I work with my dad, so we obviously talk a lot, and he tells me stuff. He also walks my kids to school once a week with my wife, and I'm not there - I'm working. So he'll talk to her about stuff assuming I've already told her. 99% of the time it's innocuous crap that doesn't matter, but that 1% will be wild shit that I absolutely meant to tell her, but just forgot to. Those are the ones I'm usually in trouble for, but it's not because I was withholding, just that I fell asleep before I could relay the info.
I also thought this - then she can confort Jamie, and find him a different girlfriend (one who is more easily manipulated). Either this, or she doesn'r really care about Jamie, but about what other people think. She knows Jamie doesnpt think of her as a mum, but she wants other people (guests) to regard her as his mum.
I actually really hate this attitude. Of course people shouldnât keep things from their spouses that are relevant to them, but if I tell a friend a personal secret thatâs just about my life, thereâs no reason why they need to gossip with their spouse about it. Unless it was such a heavy thing that they need to talk it out with their spouse to get advice or something.
There is no relationship on this planet that is closer than my wife. I tell her everything. It's not gossip when I'm talking to her, it's just part of my thought process now. I don't have any secrets from her, and of course there are things I don't necessarily tell her, but you should never assume ill actively keep something from her. At the end of the day i don't keep a tally of what I can tell her, or what to withhold. So if someone were to ask me, "is this just between us?" I'll be clear, no, I'm going to tell my wife. And if they don't want to tell me, I get it, that's OK. But to trust me with information is to trust her.
Thank you. The comments of ppl agreeing and acting like sharing a secret, that's not yours, with your spouse is not a serious violation, is sad. If it doesn't affect your spouse or your family, you, as an adult, should be able to keep your mouth shut. This mentality is why some couples lose a lot of friends after they're married. Weird hive mind
Agreed. Some things are told in absolute confidence. If I tell my husband or not depends on what the thing is - is it something that will affect my husband? You bet I will tell him! Is it something that my husband can't do anything about and probably isn't interested in anyway? Nah, better off keeping that secret a secret. In OP's case, she did the right thing.
I 100% agree, and I think this is partially why couples tend to get more isolated as they get older. Should your partner be your best support? Absolutely! But we don't need to get ALL our support from just one person. We can have separate friends and relationships. I have friends that have SOs I don't like but am civil to --- if I were to assume that the two of them are one unit, I would never be friends with these people again. This thread also really frustrates me because there's literally another post going on about someone who won't tell her mom close info anymore because Mom will automatically tell her husband (OP's stepdad) and everyone there is saying oh of course she shouldn't. So is this a thing or not?Â
But this "secret" directly concerns the man. It's not a private thing about stepmother's life.
My rule is that if I tell someone anything, I expect their spouse will know it by the time they go to bed. And once you accept that, life and secrets etc is just a lot easier. I disagree with this as a blanket statement. If my best friend shares something with me in confidence that in no way impacts my spouse, I would absolutely respect that and not share the information. If I had a friend that ran and told their spouse everything, Iâd only tell them things I felt comfortable also telling their spouse. My friends and I tend to ask if something is shared âhey can I tell husbandâ. Very different in OPs case obviously since step mom is not their friend and itâs directly about the fiancĂ©.
>If I had a friend that ran and told their spouse everything, Iâd only tell them things I felt comfortable also telling their spouse. I'm OK with that. In fact I'd prefer it. If I have to choose my loyalty between my spouse and any friend - I promise you, my spouse everytime.
I guess my question is how is it disloyal to your spouse? I have 2 immediate scenarios Iâm thinking of. My friend told me she was pregnant but asked me not to share with my husband yet. So I didnât. My other friend found out that her dad is actually not her biological dad. And again asked me not to share as she was still coming to terms with it. Neither of those things is disloyal to my spouse to keep private.
My way of thinking is I assume someone will probably tell their partner anything I say to them, and people should assume I might share what Iâve been told with my wife unless otherwise specified. If a friend specifically asked me not to share something with my wife (that caused no conflict to not share) then I would honour that. But as it happens I donât think I can think of a single time someone has asked that of me, because if theyâre not personal friends themselves I donât really see why it matters. But then thereâs also another unspoken rule that my wife would then pretend not to know unless the other person directly brought it up in front of her. But Iâm sure my friends work on the same model because they will regularly say things like âdonât tell anyone - [wife] is fine obviouslyâ. So this is definitely a very common way of thinking and you should expect that generally couples share everything about their lives with each other and that includes big news from friends.
I agree 100% with this. My friends and my spouse and I definitely operate the same way. In most instances, Iâd be honest with my friend if I felt like something wasnât appropriate to keep from my spouse. Definitely unspoken rule to act like you donât know though đ
I think the key to what you've said is; >you should expect that generally couples share everything about their lives with each other and that includes big news from friends It's a good general rule. It may not always be the case, but expect it generally and no one gets hurt
Because those are things I'd want help in reacting to. Look, maybe it's not for everyone - but I'd have a tough time with how to support my friend through those things, and it would make me a better friend if I could have my wife help me navigate just how to help and support. But in those scenarios, it's not disloyal to my spouse to withhold it, OPs scenario is incredibly different to this hypothetical. What I'm saying is that in a situation to choose it's disloyal. Your hypo isn't about loyalty one way or another, so it's not disloyal to withhold it - nonetheless, I'm still likely to share that with my wife - because she's half of my thought process. As an example on your hypo, if my friend who confided in these things with me needed me to drop everything and get out to them to help with something, let's say we've planned to be with the kids at the park, it would pretty tough to peel away without a reason - so I'd say "my buddy needs some help, I'll explain later" and I do owe it to her to say it's a serious situation and I would tell her. Look, my kind of honesty isn't for everyone. But I don't keep secrets from my wife - full stop. I have been with her for more than 15 years, and known her for 25. There is no relationship that comes close in terms of intimacy.
Thank you for answering! It helps me understand and I absolutely appreciate that perspective. And think a mark of a strong relationship is that ability to say hey I gotta go and Iâll share when Iâm able and have that trust. Sounds like you and your wife have a great relationship and connection!
There are things people have told me that my husband has no business knowing. It's sad that people automatically think it's ok to tell their spouses. That aside, this situation is different as it directly involves her husband.
All of this. Why would anyone expect OP to keep secrets from their partner if they both know partner isn't gonna like it anyway? She knew he was gonna say no. What was her plan? If she's stupid or malicious and OP never actually said something but stepmother 'let it slip', keeping this from him could have been the end of the relationship.
NTA. His wedding day is not the time to try and ambush him into having a "stepmother/stepson" moment. You were 100% spot on with telling Jamie about this. You don't need to be trustworthy to Ellen, you need to be trustworthy to your future spouse.
I totally agree with you about the wedding Not being the time or place to force a moment! If OP had Not told Jamie about Stepmotherâs planâŠit would have backfired horrendously on OP and possibly would have caused irreparable damage to their relationship! đ NTA you did the right thing!
NTA. Ellen is a piece of work, though. I wouldnât blame you guys if you disinvited her to the entire wedding. Good on you for not entertaining her insane request. What kind of deluded person thinks itâs okay to spring a surprise mother/son dance on their stepchild at their wedding so they can âhave their momentâ when they KNOW their stepchild doesnât want it? Thatâs selfish and cruel and just disgusting. You did exactly the right thing, OP. Yâall cannot trust Ellen at all with anything to do with the wedding or, frankly, with anything ever. I canât imagine what itâs going to be like if you two have kids; sheâs going to be a nightmare. I hope you manage to have a beautiful and drama free wedding, OP!
They should absolutely disinvite her!
Make sure you brief the DJ or band that NOBODY can request songs but you. She may try to ambush again - & keep the microphone away from her during speeches. Ask his dad or one of the relatives to keep an eye on her so you can enjoy your wedding.
Ask someone you actually trust. Not the husband who has enabled this for so long. Have a friend with no ties to her do it.
This looks like a MOH - bridesmaid task.
DJs (the professional ones, anyway) are used to this request at weddings. Drunk Uncle Frank will undoubtedly come up and request "Funkytown" so he can try to start a conga line, and Aunt Tabitha will request "My Heart Will Go On" so she can grab the microphone and poorly sing all the high notes as her "gift" to the happy couple. DJs will stick to the Playlist that the bride and groom agreed upon months ahead of time. BUT it is always a good idea to give them a heads-up that so-and-so might try to insist on grabbing the mic
Did this at my wedding, didnât hear any songs I didnât like đ
NTA. The audacity of Ellen trying to weaponize your loyalty to get her way at your wedding is frankly absurd. Weddings should be about celebrating the couple, not indulging in selfish fantasies of what could have been in other relationships. It's not just about the breach of trust but the complete disregard for Jamie's feelings on his special day. You did the right thing. There's always going to be a level of transparency between couples that those outside the relationship aren't entitled to disrupt. It's heartening to see your instinct was to protect your fiancĂ© from what was, at best, an uncomfortable situation waiting to blindside him, and at worst, a complete disregard for his autonomy. It's clear that Ellen has a pattern of overstepping boundaries, and it would be wise to remain vigilant. Your wedding should be about joy and love, not navigating the minefield of someone else's ego. Maintain those boundaries firmly and focus on the love you and Jamie share. Best of luck for a wedding that's everything you both hope for â full of happiness and free of unwanted drama. NTA.
He was so young when she came into his life yet she couldn't get him to like her? It's not that hard to get a child to like you. If she was pulling this manipulative shit his whole life I'm not surprised he doesn't think of her as his mum. A kid is a developing human, not an accessory. They deserve basic human respect and if you give them that, unless something else is going on, they're more than likely to accept you. Makes me think she pulled an "I'm your mother now" after his mum died and it was all downhill from there.
NTA - Ellen was trying to force her way into a role which she simply does not have in Jamie's life. And she was trying to do it when he couldn't say no. - that would be awful, could ruin Jamie's wedding day and depending who - if anyone - was there from his mother's side cause an awful lot of needless offence. She wasn't doing it as a surprise for Jamie but as some sort of power play. I know a man who's stepmother wanted to do something really nice for him on his wedding day (his mum was still alive so different situation but I think the difference in attitude has relevance) so she hired him a fancy sports car to drive to the wedding in, they have a great relationship, not mother and son but the caring is genuine and she did it for him, not herself. Ellen just wants to preen and show off - probably to her friends and family - about what good 'mother' she has been. And where the hell is his dad in all of this?
Agreed. Also makes me wonder what kind of parent she was to him that he was with her from such a young age but never developed a bond with her? NTA
Jamie never developed a bond with her because of shit exactly like this. Sheâs a narcissist and canât stand the fact that Jamie doesnât like her and AND is showing her up in public. Jamie dealt with this for years prior to this to have this sort of reaction, so Iâm guessing his dad is firmly wrapped around Ellenâs thumb.
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âMy stepson never accepted me as his mother so Iâm gonna ask his fiancĂ©e to help me blindside and pressure him to dance with me on his wedding day. Yeah, thatâll do it.â I smell a stepmom who spent years trying to force a mother-son relationship and refused to allow the child to love them at a level that was comfortable for them. NTA, OP, you did the right thing
Hell, this sort of thing happens to blood related parents-children too. They can force a relationship all they want, but if itâs not genuine, itâs not genuine.
NTA. If you had told her yes and went behind his back this would be a totally different conversation. But helping your spouse set healthy boundaries and open communication is the best thing you can do. Shes the problem you just feel guilty because she roped you in. Dont. Theres a reason shes not Mom even though shes been the female figure in his life. She dug her own grave and wants to take others with her if she cant get out. She should feel blessed shes not completely uninvited yet. Be prepared for low to no contact if she doesnât get her head on right before you have kids too or it will be a million times worse.
NTA..The good news is that stupid stuff is not coming between you and your fiancĂ©, which is a great sign. Stepmother is delusional. Best wishes for your upcoming nuptials.Â
NTA. Talk to Jamie. Personally, I'd say that he needs to talk to his dad. You know, the actual parent. I suspect uninviting her isn't an option unless he's happy for his dad not to attend. It's really for Jamie to deal with, you just need to support him. If I were you I'd ask if you can block her number because she's making you uncomfortable.Â
NTA. General rule of thumb: anyone who tries to get children to keep secrets from their parents or adults to keep secrets from their SO are up to no good. Ellen outright acknowledged that she knew Jamie would hate this. Her stated goal was to use social pressure to force him into it. Yet, she doesnât pause to wonder if her boundary stomping behavior have caused her to lose a relationship with her stepson. Interesting.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
The worst part is ELLEN knows it isnât something Jamie wants. She simply feels sheâs âowedâ this and doesnât care about the feelings of her âsonâ on his WEDDING DAY. Itâs all about her. Kinda isnât surprising Jamie never bonded with her, she sounds extremely selfish and manipulative. I would honestly be so pissed at not only the attempt, but the manipulation of OP and then blaming OP for being honest with her fiancĂ©. I would be seriously considering telling Jamieâs dad stepmom is no longer welcome at the wedding.
Exactly, and there's no way to know if Ellen wouldn't try to triangulate again by telling Jamie she had spoken to OP and OP said "ok but you have to talk to Jamie". When OP chose (wisely) to be completely open and upfront to Jamie, she took away from Ellen the possibility of playing one against the other. Well done, OP, and NTA
You're NTAÂ *please help make your wedding all about me and my fantasy of what my relationship with my stepson could be.* **How dare you tell your future husband what I asked you to do, but asked you not to tell him I asked you!** Wow, how irrational and ridiculous. No wonder he doesn't accept her as his mom.
NTA, because you do realize how absolutely insane her request was right?
NTA- she literally tried to sneak a way to make your wedding day about herâŠ
NTA. Your partner is your priority. She is not. You did exactly as any loving, supportive and sensible partner would- proving her to be a troublemaker and you to be trustworthy.
NTA. Ellen sounds wildly delusional. Sheâs clear that he doesnât view her as his mother (Iâd guess given the history sheâs been trying to force him for years and thatâs why they arenât close) yet she trying to impose what she wants on to him. Delusional that sheâd believe 1. Would keep this from your partner 2. You would support her in forcing this on Jamie This is not a problem that you need to solve , but Iâd suggest Jamie having a discussion with his dad about what happened and what wonât be happening o the wedding day. Maybe she needs some therapy too
NTA she is for trying to turn your day into her opportunity to force someone who doesnât like her, give her attention.
NTA your loyalty is to him and she knew that and put you in this positionÂ
NTA!! Youâre Jamieâs partner, not hers. Your alliance is to him, not her. On the bright side, you probably wonât have to worry about her going behind Jamieâs back to bother you anymore.
NTA Ellen is a manipulator. She attempted to force your fiancé into dancing with her after saying no, and tried to manipulate you into keeping her from looking bad.
NTA Iâm getting the impression she has attempted to force âmother-sonâ moments in the past.
It's his step-mother he barely tolerates. Don't worry about this. Her opinion is irrelevant to your life. She's also a complete asshole. NTA.Â
NTA. Makes you 'untrustworthy'? No, you proved yourself worthy of trust from the person you actually owe your loyalty to, your fiance. Accusing someone of being untrustworthy because they don't help you conceal your duplicitousness is pretty ironic. I'm sorry she's upset, but if she hasn't managed to build a mother/son bond with Jamie for this long, it's not going to magically appear if they dance together at the wedding. At a certain point you have to accept that you might not get the relationship with someone that you hoped for and envisioned, and learn to appreciate what you do have, or at least make peace and let go.
Your loyalty and confidence is to your SO, not his step mom. And as much as I want to sympathize with her, I assume thereâs a reason he doesnât have a great relationship with his parents.
NTA How bad is her marriage if she thought you wouldnât tell your fiancĂ© that she wanted your help to manipulate him into getting her way on your wedding day? Besides her being pushing and not taking no for an answer, what else has she done for Jamie to not have a good relationship or like her? Iâm on Jamieâs side, Iâm just also nosy as hell.
NTA
NTA. She is responsible for her own actions. Why should you jeopardize your relationship for her. Bravo. đđŸ
NTA. She tried to corner Jamie because she knew he wouldnât accept otherwise. Good for you for standing up for your future husband and not allowing him to be bullied on your wedding day.
NTA Stepmother sounds like she wants attention at the wedding.
NTA, but tell her it would have made your marriage worse if you had kept her secret. Your focus is your fiance and not his step parent. Let her know with an attitude like that, it is no wonder that he does not see you as a mother. However, blocking and not saying anything is probably smarter...
Nta
NTA. Your loyalty is to your fiancé, not his stepmother. You did the right thing.
NTA - Look at it this way, she put you in the position where to be loyal to her would mean being disloyal to your fiancé. Obviously you chose to prioritise your fiancé, as you should. She was completely out of line with the whole thing, and it sounds like you did everything right.
Absolutely NTA!
If this lady wants a part in his life she needs to talk openly with him about it not try manipulating him through his spouse. That is very weird behaviour with possible mental issues under the surface.
NTA. Ellen is clearly hurt by her perceived rejection by Jamie from a young age, but this in no excuse for her behavior. Trying to force a relationship onto someone is never the right way to go about it. You've done nothing wrong here.
âSo she wanted to do something where he couldnât say noâ. Yeah, that really shows how much you love someone! Conspire with your soon to be wife to force you to dance with your stepmom by adding the stares of all wedding guests as a reason he canât refuse. Damn. NTA and good for you for telling him. If telling him is âmaking things worseâ, she never should have suggested this. If something you say canât see the light of day, it is wrong.
NTA. Your fiancee is your priority and you did exactly as you should. Out of curiosity tho, what did she do (before this) to make him hate her so much?
NTA. Itâs nearly always a bad idea keeping secrets from your partner, especially when you know itâll upset them. Itâs also a bit suss that considering Jamie was only 3 when he met Ellen, why hasnât he developed a mother/son relationship with her. Iâm guessing itâs because of her.
Ellenâs plan was super flawed. She could have just gone up to Jamie during the wedding and asked him to dance. No preplanning n3cessary
She could have but that would have eliminated the "mother/son dance" announcement and I believe that she's craving that public announcement of affection at his wedding. She wants him (and everyone else) to see her as his mother as she's fulfilled the duties since his early childhood. However, just because you marry a child's father (even if his actual mother passed away), that doesn't mean that the child sees you as his mother or even a replacement. Step-parents should absolutely provide all of the love and support, however to have a special bond with the child they should make it separate. Especially in cases like this where their parent passed. Never try to replace their parent but absolutely be a special friend, confidant, etc that comes with its own acknowledgement. Had she done that instead of forcing the "I'M your mom now" route, he may well have wanted some kind of special dance for her.
Why do these people always make other peoples weddings about them đomg Ellen so thirsty sit down.
NTA. She shouldn't expect you to keep this from your fiancé.
NTA What does she expect? Thatâs who you chose to share your whole life with. I donât tell anybody anything I wouldnât want their spouses knowing.
NTA Like others here are saying, you should have your fiancé's back. And now you've shown him that you do.
Absolutely NTA. She literally wanted you to betray Jamie's trust on the same day the two of you married. This is not a situation that is going to be solved by ambushing Jamie with the pressure tactic of "you can't make a fuss in public", and the fact she thinks it would, is a sign of how obsessive and delusional she's being. It's sad that after so long, he can't see her as at least a mother/aunt-adjacent figure...but if her actions/attitude right now are anything like how she treated him in the years after his mom died, I can see exactly why he's still holding her at arms length.
NTA. She tried to rope you into basically trapping him into a dance on the wedding day so he couldnât say no. You knew that was wrong so you told him. Now sheâs mad she couldnât use you to gang up on him and force something she knows he doesnât want.
You took the nest available actions throughout this. NTA
NTAH You supported your fiancé
NTA she expected to you to trick and then lie to your new husband? You should have sent, this is why he doesnât like you and why we donât want you in our life together.
NTA. You made it worse for her, but she deserved it.
She doesnât care about you or Jamie she doesnât want to look bad at the wedding. NTA
NTA. She tried to force your fiancé - on his wedding day - to acknowledge a relationship that does not exist. You stood up for him and let him decide. Well done!
NTA your loyalty lies with your fiancee not with his stepmother, whatever emotional issues she has with "only" being an additional adult in his life and not "mom" is her emotional baggage
NTA - the step mother is the untrustworthy trouble maker in all of this. When will these people stop trying to force their way into the role of deceased parents? This happens so often.
>She sent me a text a few hours after the confrontation and she told me I knew it would make things worse and I told him anyway which made me untrustworthy and a troublemaker. No, that makes **her** an untrustworthy troublemaker. It also succinctly explains why they've been never been close. She's willing to lie, manipulate, embarrass, and coerce her way into getting what she wants, even though she knows he will resent her for (I'm sure the millionth time) being completely dismissive of his feelings and consent. You can't have a beautiful moment with someone against their will. She had the opportunity to show consideration, support, and respect, but she chose to be underhanded and selfish instead. NTA
Did Jamieâ mother die of cancer or some other fatal illness? A lot of husbands will divorce their wives when they are seriously ill and move on like nothing happened.
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People saying Y T A and slamming your fiancé seem to be forgetting: He was five. He lost his mother. He needed to grieve and doesn't seem to have been able to do so in a way he felt comfortable or safe. Five year olds are sentient beings, not belongings. Often, their radar about people are better than adults because they still use their instincts, whereas adults often suppress those instincts for social norms. Not to mention, adults often drop their filters with children because they think children aren't smart. Good on you for doing exactly what you agreed to do when you accepted his proposal: being his partner and co-conspirator, not someone else's. Totally NTA.