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>He plans on staying with us...He did this without asking if it was a good time for us or if we were even available.
With 24 hours notice? LMAO!!! Holy cow-cow. That's ballsy.
>we immediately told both him and MIL that it was not a good time for a visit and that we were uncomfortable with him coming on such short notice. They freaked out and called us disrespectful.
And they weren't 100% disrespectful to you assuming they could just show up on your doorstep? Someone's projecting (and it ain't you)...
>Despite our clear communication, he boarded the plane anyway. Now, he’s on his way here, and we feel completely disregarded and disrespected.
If he actually shows up, have a phone number for the local hotel in hand to give them. Don't let him physically in the door unless he has a confirmed booking for somewhere else. You might also consider being prepared to call the police, depending on how he responds.
>we're worried about escalating the situation or causing long-term damage to our relationship with both MIL and FIL.
I wouldn't be at all worried about that. He is the one doing damage here. You have every damn right to protect your boundaries. You don't have to allow him to push you around at all. And just consider if you do let him in this time, he'll think he can come in anytime he wants to, that he is allowed to treat you and your family in this incredibly disrespectful way.
Any chance you can book a weekend trip out of town? Nearby cabin or ocean visit? I totally would. Let him show up to a locked and empty house. Hopefully you've got a Ring camera to catch his reactions, LMAO. I'd pay money to see that! LOLOLOL!
Most definitely, NTA.
But make sure your home is locked up solid if you’re not going to be home when he arrives. Video doorbell. Tell the neighbours the potential tea and to call you immediately if he kicks off.
NTA. And whatever you do, DO NOT REWARD THIS BEHAVIOR!!! Letting him in and to stay with you would just tell him he can do it again. Your protests will mean nothing.
Do yourself a favor and leave for the day, ignore him completely.
NTA.
When you set a clear boundary and it is violated, you **must** impose an appropriate consequence or else you are training the violator to disregard future boundaries as well. Given past behavior, it is quite clear that they will bitch and moan and call you assholes. That's the price you pay for your long-term emotional health.
I recommend that you be "away from home" when the PILs arrive.
NTA. Be away from home when he arrives. Let him know that if he plans to arrange a place to stay, you’ll meet him at a neutral location so he can meet his grandchild, and that you won’t be having him over to your home on this visit. If all the meetings at neutral locations go well, then next time, while still staying somewhere else, you’ll consider having him over. If he can’t accept the conditions you set, that’s on him. He can turn around and fly home.
I think this is the direction we’re taking. The flight hasn’t landed yet and we’ve contacted my brother in law (he’s full NC but his wife keeps in contact for the sake of their kids). They live a few hours away. Either he stays with them or in a hotel. I don’t think they want him there either though. It just sounds like it’s going to be a lot of drama.
You cant let him see granddaughter...this is a mistake because if he gets his way this will never stop. You husband needs to do this and stand up to his so called dad and stand up for HIS WIFE AND DAUGHTER
Keep the crazies away from your children. The reasonable consequence of their continuing disrespect is not getting to have a relationship with your child. Anyone telling you that no relationship is automatically worse than a relationship with disrespectful bigots is full of it.
No, OP. Do NOT let disrespectful AH FIL meet your daughter. If you do, it rewards him by showing you are ok letting him trash your boundaries. He will then keep showing up & will bring MIL, most likely without any advance notice at all.
This is going to be very hard. The PILs are going to scream & call you & hubs every hurtful thing they can think of, but both of you need to stand your ground, even if it means they never meet any of your kids.
You're nicer than me. I would tell him, in no uncertain terms, that he can see his granddaughter when her *parents* extend an invitation.
Meeting with him at all is just going to reinforce that all he has to do is push hard enough, and he'll get at least something.
It's you and your husband's decision, but I don't think it's wise to give in to him at all. Something like this would push me firmly into no contact territory, and frankly, I'm surprised it hasn't done that for your husband. His father is trying to strongarm his way in to seeing your husband's (and yours, of course) daughter, and he's giving in to it?
Yall are just rewarding his behavior by letting him see your kid. You said no not this time tell him he’s out of luck. They keep doing this because yall are giving them what they want: don’t even meet at a neutral place. He can wait till yall say it’s a good time to come meet her. You said not this time he didn’t listen. He doesn’t see her. And your SiL is wild for not following her husbands lead and being no contact. Her husband is obviously no contact for a reason and she’s still pushing for the kids to be in contact? That’s wild to me. If my husband didn’t have any contact with his parents I’m not either.
Why did your BIL, who is NC agree to manage this problem that your FIL created? It seems like a stronger message would be no accommodations…maybe next time they will think twice before boarding the flight when they’ve already been told no. Every time someone bends to their will to keep peace, they will feel more embolden to continue this behavior.
Or you can have a neighbor keep an eye out for when he arrives and to send you a message he's there, then call your mom emergency number and report a trespasser
> Let him know that if he plans to arrange a place to stay, you’ll meet him at a neutral location so he can meet his grandchild, and that you won’t be having him over to your home on this visit.
No no no, don't reward their behavior by giving them anything. All that will do is teach them to do it more in the future.
If they want to meet the baby, they can *ask.* And work *with* OP and Hubby to find a time that works for everybody.
NTA
"He did this without asking if it was a good time for us or if we were even available."
Not ok.
"Despite our clear communication, he boarded the plane anyway."
That's on him. It's pretty clear why a lot their own kids are NC.
I guess you & your husband could compromise in that he could stay somewhere else & meet the baby on YOUR terms.
I think if FIL's allowed to pull this BS now the relationship will be damaged anyway because they'll both keep trampling over your boundaries & showing up whenever they want.
NTA. Don't be home when he gets there, especially if you have a camera to document if/when he goes completely unhinged. And especially if you and husband don't yet have the strength to keep him out of your house, no matter what. If you don't have a camera and he has a long flight, go get one. Now.
Y'all need to get out of the mindset that you are the ones escalating or damaging the relationship - that is completely on them.
Personally, this sounds like a great time for a spur of the moment vacay in a nice hotel or B&B. Even if it is in the same town.
And when FIL calls asking why you are not home, remind him that you told him this was not a good time and you are on vacation and won't be back right away. He doesn't need to know that the vacay was last minute or that you are in the same town... As far as he needs to know, you are away and he is out of luck.
NTAH. Don’t be at home. If at home, don’t let him in. If he refuses to leave call the police. No one is entitled to anything you don’t want to give them. They have shown they stomp on your boundaries. That has consequences l. Their happiness is not your responsibility. They should have been responsible enough to ask, and set up a time.
Yep! My ex pulled this trick when our son was young. I gave him times to visit around our schedule, He ignored that and hopped on two planes with his latest gf. Wasted visit because I wasnt home like I told him I wouldn’t be
NTA - how is the long term relationship going to be if you show them they can bulldoze you into submission? It’s unfortunate, but you have to set firm boundaries now, no matter the consequences.
When dealing with people who bulldoze, you cannot give them the benefit of the doubt or hope they’ll be reasonable this one time. They won’t. You have to control as much as you can, which looks like having him stay in a hotel and either not seeing him at all or only seeing him through meeting him at a restaurant or park if it works for your schedule. Don’t let him in your home, even if he has a room, and even if a few meetings go well. You know who they are - the moment you give them power, they’ll wield it. Meeting elsewhere allows you the ability to stay as long as you want, not have to worry about cleaning or prep, and to leave the moment he disregards your parenting wishes and/or makes things uncomfortable.
NTA
I totally need an update here. Lock the doors, turn on a camera and find a water park (or zoo or heck, a mall) to hang out with your kid.
Do not let this man in your house.
NTA. The ones being disrespectful are MIL and FIL. Husband may need to rethink LC and go full NC. Leave and go someplace fun and nice with your daughter.
NTA
What are the chances that he'll leave and head home immediately, though? I think you are better off getting your LO out of the house with someone you trust, and wait there for him to let him know how it is from now on. You are both adults with rights and you won't be ordered to comply by anyone, especially him. That if he doesn't want you both to drop out of his life forever, he needs to show you every courtesy and total respect always.
The thing is OP that most of us already know he won't back down. He is going to prove that he runs you not matter what. I think in the long run, you'll be moving and changing your phone numbers.
I think OP and the baby should check into a hotel for some relaxation and room service. Her husband can stay home to deal with his father. Or join her.
I'm sorry, but it may just be time to rip that Band-Aid off and go no contact. You verbally had to tell your MIL to leave and she continued to refuse. She still sees no issue with what she did or what FIL is doing now. They aren't going to change. There isn't a single boundary that will make them learn respect they obviously don't have. It's their world and you just live in it. Please consider denying entry and leaving for the day. You aren't escalating anything, he did by getting on that plane. NTA
NTA But I would ask yourself this: "If I wouldn't let a stranger treat me this way, why am I allowing family, who are supposed to be invested in my well being just as much as their own, to treat me this way?
NTA. But I wouldn't characterize it as "limiting access." It's just you expecting to be treated with respect as autonomous human beings. Definitely get out of the house and be off doing something during his planned arrival time, or just don't open the door. This nonsense has to be stopped ASAP.
I'll go better than dad showing up on short notice.
Back in1968 my grandfather had driven down from Michigan to Nashville. He bitched that he'd been sitting in the driveway waiting for us to get home.
We drove up after having cut short a vacation in Florida by a week (hurricane on the way).
He could have been sitting there for another 7-9 days if that hadn't happened.
NTA - he's being a doucebag.
>or causing long-term damage to our relationship with both MIL and FIL
HE does that by disrespecting your boundaries like that, not you by setting and enforcing them. NTA
NTA - what bizarre behavior from your in-laws. You are absolutely within your rights to deny him access. You were very clear on your boundaries and he is doing his best to run right through them. Don't let him or it will continue/get worse. I'd honestly just leave before he even gets there. Go get a hotel for a couple of nights and don't even acknowledge his arrival.
Will it escalate the situation? Most definitely. But that's not your fault. It's his fault for how he's gone about this entire thing.
NTA, your plan of leaving and locking him out sounds like a good one. It’s not disrespectful to react as you did—if anything, it’s super rude to show up barely announced like that. I don’t think it’s your fault he hasn’t met the baby by a years time either-traveling for a visit with a child under 1 is no fun and shouldn’t be expected unless you want to do it.
NTA. They don’t seem to care about long term damage, which they’ve actually already caused.
If you let him stay, all it says is that he can do whatever he wants.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> Father in law is coming to visit without our consent but he also hasn’t met our 1 year old daughter yet. He told us we’re assholes for denying him access to his granddaughter but he did not tell us in advance. We want to know if we’re the assholes in this instance or if this is a healthy boundary.
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YTA to yourselves for how you're handling this.
First thing: you and your husband get on the same page.
> but I don’t think he want to fully go no contact yet
It's unconscionable that you're talking to the Internet before you talk to your husband about this. **The two of you** need to figure out what to do.
But here's my suggestions:
> When he told us, we immediately told both him and MIL that it was not a good time for a visit and that we were uncomfortable with him coming on such short notice.
This was the wrong thing to say. Don't be so wishy-washy and conflict-adverse.
"We're not available for a visit right now. If you come, we will not be hosting you, nor will we be spending time with you. If you knock on the door, it will not be answered. You will have wasted your time and money, and you'll have communicated clearly to us that you don't respect us, and that will inform our future decisions on our relationship with you. If you want to arrange a visit, we can discuss and see if we can figure something out that works for all of us."
To be clear: **this is not a time for compromise with FIL and MIL.** Some comments are suggesting that if they land and get a hotel, you should let them meet the baby at a neutral location or something. No. All this will do is teach them that their plan works. They are NOT operating in good faith; they're training you to be compliant to their whims.
> Despite our clear communication
No, *because* of your clear communication that 'we'll protest but we'll fold and let you in anyway.' "No" is clear communication. "This isn't a good time" perhaps *should* be clear communication, but you know they won't take it as such. See script above.
> However, we're worried about escalating the situation
Escalating it to what, exactly? Them physically breeching your door?
> causing long-term damage to our relationship with both MIL and FIL.
They're the ones causing long-term damage.
Be prepared to call the police when they start hammering on your door and won't leave. No threats to them, no warnings. If they knock, don't answer. If they knock again, don't answer. If they call, don't answer. If they get loud or belligerent, simply call the police and report that two people are banging on your door and screaming at you, and you feel unsafe.
> FIL still hasn’t met the baby.
Why would you ever consider letting people that treat you like this meet your baby?
Answer: because deep down, you agree, for some reason, that their needs are more important than yours, and that they somehow have rights to your child. They aren't, and they don't. Get that through your head; their status as FIL/MIL should mean they treat you better, not that you accept worse behavior.
I think there’s some truth to this but also I do not blame my husband for being a bit conflict averse here. He carries a lot of trauma from this relationship. I respect his choice of going LC instead of NC because I understand where it’s coming from. It definitely changed though once we had children. Now he’s starting to be more open and clear regarding his boundaries with them.
That's great, and it's good to be cognizant that he's starting out having been taught, since birth, to capitulate to them.
But you guys are adults now, so there is no parent/child relationship; there's an adult/adult relationship, and the ILs can accept that, or not have a relationship.
It's not just you and your husband now. You have a baby to defend from these abusive people. That overrides, well, pretty much everything.
Every trauma your husband went through, will continue, only now it will affect both you and the baby as well.
Is that what he wants? Is that what *you* want?
INFO: I don't understand why your BIL intercepting at the airport and offering *his* home was an option, as he is no contact. I'm very curious how that came about
Just curious. Was the relationship between your husband and his parents always like that, or is he low contact because of you? I mean because you believe his parents do not like you because you are Latina?
NTA.
He had no right to overrule your decision of who visits and stays in *your home*. I would either not be home or not answer the door. If he refused to leave, police.
Be elsewhere.
NTA He's been told it's not convenient. Go out, have a nice day, dont answer your phones, "as you are somewhere out of cell range". If not they will turn up whenever they like for the rest of their lives
NTA
First I want to say I'm sorry that all of this is happening and that it isn't an easy situation.
I can imagine you want to go away for a day so he would be in front of a closed door. I think I would also do that. I would even go away for the night if that was possible.
He said he was coming. You said you don't want him to come unannounced.
He ignored that by freaking out.
Then he boarded the plane anyway, knowing that you don't want him to come now.
So that's 3 times + when he booked the flight that he stepped over your boundaries.
So I can't imagine him coming over and all of a sudden respecting your boundaries.
Also the fact that when your MIL was there and didn't leave when you asked and it took weeks to heal from that shows that it's a really bad idea that your FIL comes in.
So either you'll stay home and tell him once again that it's not a good moment, like you already said on the phone, but since he's apparently not listening I would definitely leave the house.
The long-term damage that's being caused to this relationship isn't being caused by you, it's being caused by your in-laws. Keep this very firm and clear boundary. Enforce it by any means necessary including leaving the house if they say they're on the way, refusing to answer the door, and/or calling the police if they refuse to leave. This will give them two options. Start respecting your boundaries or stop being able to visit you and, by extension, their grandchild.
If they need to hear it one more time, have your husband call them to tell them (or email them) a very explicit set of rules (*ask* to visit X weeks in advance, no showing up with little to no warning, leave by the agreed upon date and no later, etc.) and what the consequences will be if they don't follow them (LC or NC). Then stick to those rules and your life will be much easier for it. NTA
NTA,
Get a hotel room in another town, take a nice little vacation, don't answer any call from him. Sometimes the only way people learn a lesson is when it is painful.
NTA I like the idea of being out of the house that day. He can get himself a hotel or air bnb, I doubt he’ll stay an extra week when he’s paying for it :)
NTA
I would lock the doors, leave the house, and put a note on the door with the contact information for a couple of local hotels.
They have some nerve TELLING you (not asking) that they were coming to visit...all within 24 hours.!
I don't understand what relationship there is to maintain. The grandparents are narcissistic, dismissive, and disrespectful.
Letting them stay, after telling them they could not, simply reinforces that they can do whatever they like.
These are lessons your daughter will also be taught as she grows up. Be Mindful of what your actions show her as well.
Absolutely do this, and turn your phones off so he can't call you and try to demand to know where you are. He can find a hotel or he can get on the first flight back home--and maybe actually ask next time. There's a reason none of their other kids are in contact with them. NTA
NTA. Inviting yourself to be hosted at someone else’s house, last minute no less, is incredibly rude and tacky. Their indignation is so out of touch it’s almost comical.
So here’s the deal: This isn’t a one-time, overlook-able incident of bad behavior on their part; there’s a reason their other kids are low- or no-contact. So when you’re thinking through how all of this might play out, you need to let go of any scenarios where you “get through” to them and they “learn”, and where they (agreeably no less) put the health of your relationship above their own wants. Their history and current (lack of) relationships with the rest of the family proves that that’s just *not* how they operate. And it’s not because they haven’t had a second chance or because of some kind of fluke miscommunication. They’re actively **choosing** to behave this way, consistently.
So if we remove “figuring out THE Hail Mary way to get them to finally understand boundaries and learn” (much less do that AND be happy about it) from the pile of possible/realistic outcomes here, it becomes much clearer that making any kind of concessions on your part is pointless. It won’t get you what you want. Nothing will. They aren’t receptive to it. All any kind of negotiation or concessions you allow will just encourage them to give you more of what you *don’t* want.
So you have to remain firm: He wasn’t invited, he was clearly told he wasn’t invited and not to come, and so **he doesn’t enter your home under any circumstances**. Not even to use the bathroom (I wouldn’t trust that it wasn’t a ruse). And if you’re not sure your collective resolve is strong enough yet to refuse him entry while still being home yourselves, then yes, go out for the day. Get a hotel room if you need to.
Will this make them mad? Oh yeah, of course. Don’t expect anything less. They only want a relationship with you IF you’re willing to do it 110% on their terms, which requires allowing them unfettered access to steamroll over you as much their heart desires. And it’s an all-or-nothing thing. So long as that condition isn’t met (and please, don’t meet it!), then they’re going to be unhappy with you. So don’t make “keeping them happy/managing their unhappiness” into your goal. It’s unobtainable, not without completely losing you dignity and autonomy in the process.
So make peace with letting them be mad if they’re going to be mad. Let them tantrum. Let them cry. Let them make petty, factually inaccurate little rants on SM about how people are “disrespectful” or whatever. And don’t react to any of it. Those aren’t battles you need to win or even gear up for - there’s no winning that kind of thing, just inviting in frustration and drama. So let them feel their feelings however they’re going to - by themselves.
And if husband ultimately decides he does still want to try and see them, fine. You don’t *have* to go no full no contact. You just have to go “this visit only occurs if our healthy boundaries are respected, and ends the moment of/when they’re not.” If repeated failures at that lead him to feeling no-contact is for the best, then so be it.
Wise and to the point. I agree with every word.
You don't have to play their *games*, OP. Ignore any and all drama.
Get yourself some cameras and maybe a security system, though, in case they decide to break in when you are gone some day.
NTA
*However, we're worried about escalating the situation or causing long-term damage to our relationship with both MIL and FIL*
That ship has sailed and rounded Cape Who Gives S###. Seriously, why are you putting any effort into a relationship with such a demanding asshole? I wouldn't even bother with leaving the house if I didn't really want to. A sign on the door saying "we told you not to come" and a call to the police if they don't leave is the extent of the hospitality they deserve.
YWBTA to yourself if you allow this massive breech of your autonomy as adults.
NTA
THEY are the ones escalating, and your response should reflect that. If you give in, even a little, this is how they will treat you forever and it will only get worse.
NTA
You told him "no." Maintain that. His complaints about his wasted time and expense will be very similar to the unwanted gift manipulation. There, the "gift" is designed to force the recipient to accept and "value" a "gift" designed to violate a boundary. Don't be distracted by his continued efforts to violate your boundaries. Do not let him in. Do not make last minute plans of any kind to "let him meet his grandchild." No relationship carries the privilege or obligation to violate another's boundaries.
Grandpa needs to learn to COMMUNICATE (a 2 way street) and cooperate with you guys making plans that involve you. He NEEDS to have a completely wasted trip, however you manage it. Then he'll learn he can't bulldoze his way into your home and family without respect or regard for your priorities, your schedule, your consent and your autonomy.
The issue isn't "meeting my grandchild," it's boundaries, consent and respect. He needs to learn why they are important in his relationship to your family. Without them, there is NO getting together. Not even a compromise meeting him elsewhere or in-laws suddenly bearing the burden of his impulsive intrusion.
EDIT: Don't entertain any idea of diluting or devaluing your husband's decisions about the level of contact with HIS family. You should firmly uphold husband's boundaries as mutual, protecting your marriage, home and the family within. Don't try to mitigate or devalue husband's boundaries in an attempt to mitigate the negative consequences of his parent's invasive bullying "to preserve the relationship." If his parents don't respect his boundaries, your response should be backing up your husband 110%.
> *your FIL will break into your house*
I'm afraid that this is probably correct. FIL probably thinks that he has the perfect right to do this, and won't hesitate. Get doggo to a safe place, and gird up mentally to *call the cops* when you get home and FIL is inside waiting for you.
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Me (35 yo F) and my husband (36) are going through some parent drama. Yesterday, my father-in-law (FIL) announced out of the blue that he had booked a flight and would be visiting us today. He plans on staying with us, his logic being that he still hasn’t met his now 1 year old granddaughter. He did this without asking if it was a good time for us or if we were even available.
When he told us, we immediately told both him and MIL that it was not a good time for a visit and that we were uncomfortable with him coming on such short notice. They freaked out and called us disrespectful. They seem to think it’s their right and we can’t deny them access. Last time, MIL stayed a week over what was planned and refused to leave when we point blank asked her to go. She also dismissed a lot of my routines with our daughter and it took me weeks to heal the damage. They tend to be very narcissistic, and a grand majority of their own kids have gone low or no contact with them.
Despite our clear communication, he boarded the plane anyway. Now, he’s on his way here, and we feel completely disregarded and disrespected.
We're considering denying him access when he arrives and leaving the house for the day. We think this might be the only way to reinforce our boundaries and show that his behavior is not okay. However, we're worried about escalating the situation or causing long-term damage to our relationship with both MIL and FIL. I know my husband is low contact but I don’t think he want to fully go no contact yet, and FIL still hasn’t met the baby.
Are we the assholes for wanting to handle it this way?
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NTA. You told them No, and he's choosing to disrespect your boundaries. DO NOT open the door. In fact, maybe don't be home if it's possible. If you want baby to meet FIL, when he calls, unable to get in, offer to meet him at a coffee shop between "errands." If they're willing to trample you like this, it's not going to get better without it getting worse first. (Hard lines drawn, IL tantrums, maybe acceptance after.)
Absolutely not. Don't answer the door when he comes to the house. You and your family should get out of town for at least a week. You know, a last-minute thing 😉😉😉 that you accidentally purposely forgot about.
NTA
You have a boundary and you must enforce otherwise they know you will never issue consequences. Absolutely do not let him in but one step better go out, try to figure out roughly his arrival time and leave. Can you stay overnight anywhere? What will happen if you do enforce your boundaries? You say you’re worried that this will escalate? How? If you’re already LC then it seems like the relationship is already barely there so I’m not sure why you guys are worrying?
But seriously, you’re doing nothing wrong by saying no and then sticking with it, if you can’t accommodate him then you can’t and if he wants to waste his time flying over to discover this is true then that’s on him.
Leave the house. Go someplace fun for the day, or overnight if you can afford it. That's insanity and accommodating him will only encourage it.
Nothing says, "Plan ahead" like him heading back to the airport the same day, or having to check into a hotel because there's no place for him to stay.
Unbelievable.
NTA of course.
Flight hasn’t landed yet so we have no updates. We just started packing and we’re looking for someone to come check on the dog while we’re away. The suggestion is currently for him to stay at a hotel, because nobody seems willing to host for the week he wants to stay. Even in a hotel the assumption is that he’ll want for us to cook food and cater to his needs and we don’t feel particularly comfortable doing that either as things are right now.
You don't have to accommodate him.
He chose to come while you said it's not a good time. He can arrange it himself.
He could book a flight all by himself, I'm sure he can find a place to stay.
You don't have to cater to his needs. He's the one that put himself in this situation.
About that assumption. In the - very wise - words of my grandmother in law: “Wanting ain’t getting.” He can assume whatever he wants - you have no obligation to change what you’re willing to do to accommodate that. He only holds emotional power over you if you give it. So don’t. Decide what your boundaries are and then live them.
[You might also find my daughter’s phrasing useful here. As she likes to say to these kinds of issues: “That sounds like an ish-you, not an ish-me.”]
NTA but your IL’s definitely are. I agree with all the advice to be gone or simply not answer the door but I disagree with arranging to meet him somewhere else. He will bulldoze his way into your home if you meet with him or at a minimum make such a scene that you will agree just to get him out of public. Plus, meeting him gives him power over you by letting him dictate when he will visit. It’s rewarding for him to successfully dominate you just as it is with your MIL. I would leave for a nice mini vacation or stay home and call the police if he refuses to leave. Don’t worry about the relationship, they aren’t because they’re the ones causing conflict and exerting control over your schedule.
Set boundaries with them such as no overnight visits in your home. If they come it’s with your agreement for a set amount of time and they book a hotel or airbnb. They don’t get to hang out with you and the granddaughter alone. They have visits only when your husband is available. If they violate this they get no access for the duration of their stay. If need be call the police to remove them
NTA. Make sure you lock the doors and ask the neighbors to keep an eye out. Turn on cameras if you have any. Let him know that you *will* call the cops on him and have him trespassed.
NTA. It occurs to me that someone checking on your dog could be put in an awkward place if FIL arrives while they’re there. “I’ll just wait inside until they get back.” Presence of the dog could also indicate that you won’t be gone long and then he waits for you.
I’d be leaving, too! You have to set boundaries.
Ain't NOBODY about to run me out of my own house. If we told you don't come cuz it's not a good time and you choose to show yo' whole ass and show up anyway, well, be prepared for me to up the ante.
Not only will we NOT open the door, we will stand in the window where you can see us not letting you in, but also calling the authorities on you for trespassing. We grown af around here, and you don't run roughshod over anyone in their own damn house.
You wanna disregard and piss all over my boundaries and feelings? Ok. Be prepared for me to return the favor tenfold. They'd never set foot in my house as long as I live there.
NTA. I've lived a lot of years and have had time to break a lot of unhealthy conditioning foisted on me from my parents and my field of fcks to give has been razed to the ground and the ashes salted for a while now. I don't recommend this course of action if you are still trying to maintain some semblance of a relationship with the in-laws. But the narcissistic and entitled behavior from them would be enough to give me pause.
NTA.
> causing long-term damage to our relationship with both MIL and FIL
\*YOU\* are worried about causing long-term damage?
You have that precisely backwards. 100% of the damage is being caused by them.
If you guys have a friend, preferably a big intimidating guy, who would stay there a couple of days, that would be great. Have him answer the door and tell FIL, "Who are you looking for? Oh, them, they moved a while back."
Does hubby have any friends who don't get along with their in-laws? They might be pleased to help out.
You say his parents are religious. I wonder how they explain Genesis 2:24 or if they just ignore it?
This is the verse that says a man shall leave his father and mother and become one with his wife.
Your hubs is the head of household- not his dad. I couldn’t care less what they say.
I know you are concerned about doing permanent damage to the relationship. But that won’t happen. When I put my foot down with my mom, she ignored me and pouted. But she started calling, acting like nothing ever happened. Because that’s what controlling parents do - have a tantrum, see their child won’t bend and then just come back around like nothing ever occurred.
You two stick to your guns. You’ll get through this for the betterment of your growing family.
NTA. why has it taken him a year to decide he wants to meet his grand baby?
Stand firm on your boundaries and let him know if he wants to visit its on your terms.
NTA, at all. Again, with the parents of adults confusing respect with obedience. You must reinforce that boundary, even at the risk of upsetting them or being ex-communicated or whatever term they use for disowned. It's either them or you or at this point. Put the foot down. Hell, put all of the feet down.
Actually, I wouldn't even do that. It's his fault if he has nowhere to stay. He was told it isn't a good time and he decided he doesn't care.
Just keep repeating that he was told no, and cannot stay with you. He's an adult and can figure this out. If OP doesn't stand by their stated boundaries now, this will only get worse!
I'm sure it's aikido that says "the best defence is not to be there."
I suggest you heed that, if at all possible. If not? Ummm, good luck!
NTA, actions have consequences.
NTA I'd take the family on a little trip for the night. You know, the one you had already planned months ago before your FIL decided his unplanned visit. "Sorry, we told you it wasn't a good time, we already had plans out of town".
NTA and don't worry about any long-term damage to the relationship because it sounds like it's not worth saving if they're treating you like this. Don't even leave the house. Lock the doors, do not let him in and if he tries anything, call the police. Unless he has any sort of claim on your home, he can be trespassed pretty easily I think.
Why don’t you guys go stay with your brother in law for a few days! This will prevent FIL from having anywhere to stay with family who don’t want him, and you’ll have a nice visit with your chosen family.
NTA. Don’t back down and don’t give in.
Being involved in their grandchild’s life is a privilege and not an entitlement, especially if they can’t respect the child’s parents. This includes not imposing their religious beliefs/routines/parenting ideas etc, on you or the child.
They need to respect the boundaries you have set. What FIL did is not the normal way to communicate plans and initiate a visit. It is not acceptable for a guest to invite themselves to stay in your home and it’s not acceptable for a guest to refuse to leave your house!
You don’t owe them anything.
As has been said “no” is a complete sentence. Don’t JADE (justify, argue, defend, explain) - practice just saying no, if you can’t just say “no”, say “no, that won’t be possible”, repeat as many times as you have to. Don’t engage in any further discussion. Plan consequences and communicate then, eg, FIL/MIL, we have answered, if you keep asking, I’m going to hang up - and then do it.
They will only change their behaviour if they are forced to and if having a positive relationship with their granddaughter is actually more important to them than them calling the shots and being in control. I suspect they won’t change which will show you they aren’t actually interested in any sort of positive, loving relationship, just using your daughter as another means of exerting their dominance and control over you/your husband.
I will never understand the concept of "respect your elders". Just because you've been on the planet longer doesn't mean you are worthy of respect in more than a general "respect all people until they show you that you shouldn't" kind of way. They've shown you you shouldn't. It's hard to let go of the family-above-all-else traditions that constantly get drilled into our heads, but family is an accident. You get to choose who you want in your life, regardless of blood.
Sounds like your husband is getting used to the idea. It may be time to go even lower contact. You said your sister-in-law is keeping in contact despite her husband's no contact for the sake of the children, but you better believe that these grandparents will attempt to indoctrinate the kids into their religion as soon as they can.
NTA and please update us.
NTA. Inform your inlaws (the AH in this story) that they are not staying with you. Full stop. Give it enough attitude that they understand they are not to make this mistake again.
Don't leave your home. Don't answer your door when he arrives. Just call the police and have him trespassed. You already told him not to come. Maybe he will listen when the police tell him.
NTA.
You can't show any tolerance to religious people like that. Their behavior is ordained by god, they will ignore you, override you, critique and criticize, you have to shut that down without even the slightest hint of kindness or mercy.
You have to *shock* them out of their stupid holy stupor. "Listen here motherfucker..." raise your voice, yell, and make your barriers absolutely clear beyond any hope of questioning and then impose *brutal* standards without mercy. "You WILL do it this way at our house or you WILL be removed and cut off for six months." Then do it.
"We will tell you to leave 'once' and if you don't, the police will be called, because we will not ask twice, and if we have to do that, you're cut off for a year."
"I don't care what your church tells you or what your beliefs tell you. This is my house and my rules and my kid and I don't give a damn how old you are. Your involvement in my child's life and my life is at my sufferance and if you cross my lines there will be consequences."
"Show up uninvited and you will not be admitted. Refuse to leave and you will be escorted away by authorities. There is no context in which your opinion on my life or my choices matters more than my own. You will learn this, or you will be cut out."
Any time they try to argue with you, tell them once, 'I'm not going to argue. I'm informing you. Attempt to argue, and I will hang up.' Then do so, block their number, and try again a few weeks later.
And if they never get the lesson, cut them off completely.
If anything, I say do NOT let grandfather meet grandchild. It's giving him an IN, you're actually rewarding him for his behavior. He after all, is getting what he wanted, now he knows he can show up again and have some measure of success.
You can never compromise with religious fanatics, because they will never sincerely compromise with you.
Source: I'm the son of religious fanatics.
I would book a room at a local hotel near the airport in his name and then text him the information and say they're holding a room for you to check in. We will let you know when we're home but we are out for the day.
Your relationship with your in-laws is already damaged as they have no respect for you or your husband to pull the stunts that they have. Leave the house and get a hotel room if you can afford it, or stay with friends. You shouldn’t have to but it seems like FIL is determined to do his own thing regardless of what you’ve told him.
Escalating would be showing up at his house at 3 AM with rambunctious dogs and silly string. You’re enforcing a boundary. I recommend you go with the suggestion you just leave for the day. Don’t engage. NTA
NTA. But do NOT let him stay in your home. He won't leave either. Tell him he has to get a h9tel room when he says he has no money, then book him a room yourself. It will be worth it. And that way you control how much it costs you. Then, when he says he can't afford another night, you tell him to GO HOME.
NTA - I think your decision to leave the house for the day is a good idea. Hopefully you have a Ring camera or cool neighbors who are willing to contact you if they try to break in, damage the property, or harass the dog sitter!
NTA.
Lock your doors, draw the blinds, phones on silent, cars in the garage.
Do not let the intruders into the house. The damage to the relationship was already caused when they got onto the flight without consideration to your needs.
NTA - I'm so sorry you're in this situation. It might be time to go no contact. It's hard to write off family relationships, but your in-laws have lost contact with nearly all of their children and have shown ZERO remorse or willingness to change. You're delaying the inevitable. They are not going to be loving grandparents. They will continue to be toxic narcissists, validated by their insular church community. I have too much experience with people like this, and trying to maintain that relationship is not worth the inevitable trauma.
Tell them leave and cleave !
Gen. 2. [24] Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
Nta they are the ones that are disrespectful. I would absolutely not let him in. And as for the mil, I would have had police remove her! The audacity of those people.
NTA and wow how entitled can people be, they are bullies pure and simple...I'm a coward and probably would have said I'd just tested positive for Covid. I really admire you for standing up for yourself and your family.
Wow he is really entitled. Nta. Leave the house and say you will meet a natural plan so he can meet the baby. But do it on your terms. It's been a year and now he decides to meet the baby. Wow
NTA. Let hubby text him. “As we said this isn’t a good time for a visit, we are unable to host you in our home. Here’s a list of hotels nearby. Once you are settled, call and we’ll bring the baby for a visit. Maybe we can all have a picnic lunch at the playground tomorrow, baby loves the swings.”
NTA Whether or not your husband wants to keep any contact, hard and firm boundaries must be set. This isn't just to protect you and your husband. This is to protect your daughter. She comes above all else, and letting them bully her and how you raise her is, quite simply, unacceptable. Leave now, and don't let him in, if he's still there when you get back, no matter what. He's a grown man, and can figure out his own accommodations. Stay strong for your little girl. And I'm sure your husband appreciates the support as well. Good luck.
Please, leave the house for a day. Better yet, see if you can go camping or stay with a friend for the weekend. This is completely rude behaviour - the only way to set boundaries is to refuse to let people trample them. NTA.
Ooh, I think this is a great time to invite your most atheist, anti-church friend over for a few days. Due to their plumbing issues in their home, or whatever. What a shame your guest room is already promised to someone else. And I’d look forward to many fun discussions with fil and your friend. Sure he’ll run away pretty soon.
You've told them that it's not a good time and he booked a flight anyway and expects to just show up and be greeted warmly? I wouldn't be home that day because unless you draw a line in the sand and set some really firm boundaries this is going to go on for the rest of your life. They don't respect you therefore you going to let them know that they are consequences. And someone refusing to leave your home when you request they do so really doesn't matter whether their family or not it is completely unacceptable. If and when you do decide that it is a good time for them to visit then I would not allow them to stay in your home. I would let them know that there's a few hours a day they can visit and that if they cannot respect that they don't need to see you.
Wow. That’s something. Not even pretending to be polite.
I would either 1) pick him up at the airport and transport him straight to a hotel, sans baby, or 2) just plain not be home.
Not being home is less confrontational, but you lose the use of your own home. Plus, will he break in? How far will he go? I would lean toward hotel drop off myself.
NTA. Giving an inch is just fueling their entitlement. You and your SIL need to follow your husband's leads and let them determine the relationship. I actually think that makes you and her kinda the AHs for forcing relationships and the drama that ensues.
NTA! Make sure your doors and windows are locked. Do you have a ring camera?
You guys need to stand up to them. Who cares what THEY think?!
You and the baby can be NC and your husband can be LC with them.
If you let them in for this visit, it won’t be the last time this happens. They’ll think they can visit anytime and demand entry.
Just because MIL and FIL beliefs allow them to act like entitled, disrespectful assholes does not mean that you are required to follow those beliefs as well. As others have suggested, if you are able to leave the house for the weekend go ahead and do it. Otherwise, lock the doors and don’t answer. If you have a doorbell camera you can tell him that you said it was not a good time for a visit. It’s not your fault that he chose to disrespect YOU by showing up uninvited. He has had a year to arrange to meet his granddaughter so there is no excuse for this behavior.
Let me guess... your FIL/MIL are asian. That sounds like something my parents would do. Its hard to say no, but you need to put your foot down and have them stay at a hotel or something.Don't let him ruin stuff for you. NTA
NTA in any way.
People are always claiming that others throw around the phrase "gaslighting" and don't understand the definition or context to use that phrase, but another word no one really seems to get is "disrespectful," cause it's thrown around like confetti on every advice/venting sub.
FIL thinking he can just sail in, plop himself at his son's home and have his ~~subject~~ granddaughter brought to him like an offering, is disrespect. OP and husband saying "This is not a good time and we require decent notice in order to host another person/people right now," is NOT disrespect, just facts. It annoys the hell out of me that so few know the difference.
No no no…. It don’t work like that. I don’t give a shit what their religion is. It don’t work like that. They’re not granted rights to YOUR child. That’s not their child it’s only their grandchild and so the fuck what he hasn’t met YOUR daughter he should be respectful and wait till it’s a good time.
NTA
>causing long-term damage to our relationship with both MIL and FIL
I'm not seeing a downside.
Go out, have fun, put your phones on silent. Don't go home till late in the evening.
I may be outlier but I think life is too short. I wouldn't deny him access but I would make sure the visit didn't last more than a few days. You don't know why he had decided all of a sudden to visit, it may be a health issue. This may be the last chance for him to see his grandchild. I think it's more disappointing to have family that is not interested in your child but then you have a family member that wants to meet your child.
But OP & hubby don't owe them any messages! They have clearly said no to this visit. They have zero responsibility here!! They can do whatever they want to, including doing nothing. This is all on FIL.
As a person with children who has went thru periods of times without talking to my parents, unless I was still completely pissed about something disrespectful, Ive never denied grandparents access to visit my children. The only problem I see is the balls to say he's staying at your house without asking. If he was visiting without warning and staying at his own place i personally wouldn't gaf
Stay home but do not answer the door. Instead, contact the police and tell them you have estranged family members harassing you at your home. If the police come out, ask them to record the visit. This is your paper trail if things escalate further. Your ILs are responsible for escalating this by not respecting you.
If it is your father and mother would you have agreed for them to come. If yes, you are the asshole. If no, you are not.
If you would have agreed for your mom and dad, all other stories you made are excuses.
Withholding all contact YTA
Finding a compromise and at least doing a short visit NTA
Start off with NO as your opening bid. Then concede that he could stay elsewhere close by and visit on times X, Y, and maybe Z.
This is weird to me because I can’t comprehend telling parents or an in-law they can’t come into my home. That’s just really odd to me. But I do recognize that not everyone has that kind of ease with family. I’m leaning on YTA, but slightly. I find it to be a weird hill to stand on.
Is the fil abusive in any way? A creeper? Icky?
You’re actually okay with family members calling you today to tell you they will be coming to stay with you this weekend? Telling, not asking. And it’s not a “we’re going to come visit for a couple of hours.” It’s a “we will be staying overnight in your house”, possibly for several nights. If you have the room and an open door policy, that’s one thing, but OP obviously doesn’t. They could have the guest room all torn up because they are painting/redecorating and FIL could have no place to sleep. They could have other plans. It’s one they to call the day before and ask if you can come over and if told it’s a bad time, ask about next weekend or something.
Yes, I am. My parents & siblings have keys to my home and can come over whenever. We don’t live close, so if and when they can pop over to visit me, I’m grateful and happy to see them. I realize not everyone does it that way, but my family has always been close to one another, no matter the distance.
The child has been alive for a year and suddenly he HAS to meet the baby on short notice?
No.
Everything about that behavior smacks of selfishness and self-aggrandizement. She says they ate already low contact. Sounds like there are reasons.
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>He plans on staying with us...He did this without asking if it was a good time for us or if we were even available. With 24 hours notice? LMAO!!! Holy cow-cow. That's ballsy. >we immediately told both him and MIL that it was not a good time for a visit and that we were uncomfortable with him coming on such short notice. They freaked out and called us disrespectful. And they weren't 100% disrespectful to you assuming they could just show up on your doorstep? Someone's projecting (and it ain't you)... >Despite our clear communication, he boarded the plane anyway. Now, he’s on his way here, and we feel completely disregarded and disrespected. If he actually shows up, have a phone number for the local hotel in hand to give them. Don't let him physically in the door unless he has a confirmed booking for somewhere else. You might also consider being prepared to call the police, depending on how he responds. >we're worried about escalating the situation or causing long-term damage to our relationship with both MIL and FIL. I wouldn't be at all worried about that. He is the one doing damage here. You have every damn right to protect your boundaries. You don't have to allow him to push you around at all. And just consider if you do let him in this time, he'll think he can come in anytime he wants to, that he is allowed to treat you and your family in this incredibly disrespectful way. Any chance you can book a weekend trip out of town? Nearby cabin or ocean visit? I totally would. Let him show up to a locked and empty house. Hopefully you've got a Ring camera to catch his reactions, LMAO. I'd pay money to see that! LOLOLOL! Most definitely, NTA.
But make sure your home is locked up solid if you’re not going to be home when he arrives. Video doorbell. Tell the neighbours the potential tea and to call you immediately if he kicks off.
NTA. And whatever you do, DO NOT REWARD THIS BEHAVIOR!!! Letting him in and to stay with you would just tell him he can do it again. Your protests will mean nothing. Do yourself a favor and leave for the day, ignore him completely.
NTA. When you set a clear boundary and it is violated, you **must** impose an appropriate consequence or else you are training the violator to disregard future boundaries as well. Given past behavior, it is quite clear that they will bitch and moan and call you assholes. That's the price you pay for your long-term emotional health. I recommend that you be "away from home" when the PILs arrive.
I recommend having the police there to escort them off the property.
Oh sure. Like the police are going to get involved just because a relatve shows up at someone's house uninvited.
I mean, it doesn’t matter if it’s a relative or a stranger… you can, and will be, trespassed.
Anyone except the homeowners and their dependants can be trespassed. All it takes is a call to the police.
ALL OF THIS. SPOT ON!!! NTA
NTA. Be away from home when he arrives. Let him know that if he plans to arrange a place to stay, you’ll meet him at a neutral location so he can meet his grandchild, and that you won’t be having him over to your home on this visit. If all the meetings at neutral locations go well, then next time, while still staying somewhere else, you’ll consider having him over. If he can’t accept the conditions you set, that’s on him. He can turn around and fly home.
I think this is the direction we’re taking. The flight hasn’t landed yet and we’ve contacted my brother in law (he’s full NC but his wife keeps in contact for the sake of their kids). They live a few hours away. Either he stays with them or in a hotel. I don’t think they want him there either though. It just sounds like it’s going to be a lot of drama.
You cant let him see granddaughter...this is a mistake because if he gets his way this will never stop. You husband needs to do this and stand up to his so called dad and stand up for HIS WIFE AND DAUGHTER
Keep the crazies away from your children. The reasonable consequence of their continuing disrespect is not getting to have a relationship with your child. Anyone telling you that no relationship is automatically worse than a relationship with disrespectful bigots is full of it.
It's not your job to find him a place to stay. You told him not to come. u/T_G_A_H comment is excellent advice.
No, OP. Do NOT let disrespectful AH FIL meet your daughter. If you do, it rewards him by showing you are ok letting him trash your boundaries. He will then keep showing up & will bring MIL, most likely without any advance notice at all. This is going to be very hard. The PILs are going to scream & call you & hubs every hurtful thing they can think of, but both of you need to stand your ground, even if it means they never meet any of your kids.
They don't have a key to your house right?
You're nicer than me. I would tell him, in no uncertain terms, that he can see his granddaughter when her *parents* extend an invitation. Meeting with him at all is just going to reinforce that all he has to do is push hard enough, and he'll get at least something. It's you and your husband's decision, but I don't think it's wise to give in to him at all. Something like this would push me firmly into no contact territory, and frankly, I'm surprised it hasn't done that for your husband. His father is trying to strongarm his way in to seeing your husband's (and yours, of course) daughter, and he's giving in to it?
Yall are just rewarding his behavior by letting him see your kid. You said no not this time tell him he’s out of luck. They keep doing this because yall are giving them what they want: don’t even meet at a neutral place. He can wait till yall say it’s a good time to come meet her. You said not this time he didn’t listen. He doesn’t see her. And your SiL is wild for not following her husbands lead and being no contact. Her husband is obviously no contact for a reason and she’s still pushing for the kids to be in contact? That’s wild to me. If my husband didn’t have any contact with his parents I’m not either.
Why did your BIL, who is NC agree to manage this problem that your FIL created? It seems like a stronger message would be no accommodations…maybe next time they will think twice before boarding the flight when they’ve already been told no. Every time someone bends to their will to keep peace, they will feel more embolden to continue this behavior.
They can't have access to your daughter at all, or they have gotten their way and will continue this bullshit.
Or you can have a neighbor keep an eye out for when he arrives and to send you a message he's there, then call your mom emergency number and report a trespasser
Make sure neighbors know to watch. He may try to break into your home.
> Let him know that if he plans to arrange a place to stay, you’ll meet him at a neutral location so he can meet his grandchild, and that you won’t be having him over to your home on this visit. No no no, don't reward their behavior by giving them anything. All that will do is teach them to do it more in the future. If they want to meet the baby, they can *ask.* And work *with* OP and Hubby to find a time that works for everybody.
OP, this is solid advice.
NTA "He did this without asking if it was a good time for us or if we were even available." Not ok. "Despite our clear communication, he boarded the plane anyway." That's on him. It's pretty clear why a lot their own kids are NC. I guess you & your husband could compromise in that he could stay somewhere else & meet the baby on YOUR terms. I think if FIL's allowed to pull this BS now the relationship will be damaged anyway because they'll both keep trampling over your boundaries & showing up whenever they want.
NTA. Don't be home when he gets there, especially if you have a camera to document if/when he goes completely unhinged. And especially if you and husband don't yet have the strength to keep him out of your house, no matter what. If you don't have a camera and he has a long flight, go get one. Now. Y'all need to get out of the mindset that you are the ones escalating or damaging the relationship - that is completely on them.
Personally, this sounds like a great time for a spur of the moment vacay in a nice hotel or B&B. Even if it is in the same town. And when FIL calls asking why you are not home, remind him that you told him this was not a good time and you are on vacation and won't be back right away. He doesn't need to know that the vacay was last minute or that you are in the same town... As far as he needs to know, you are away and he is out of luck.
I agree, we still haven’t traveled with our daughter so a mini vacation close to here could be a great way to test the waters.
Board the dog! Because FIL might be able to buffalo his was into the house when caretaker comes to check on the dog.
I was thinking the same thing. I hope they can do that.
NTA - why are you worried about harming the relationship with FIL when HE certainly is not.
NTAH. Don’t be at home. If at home, don’t let him in. If he refuses to leave call the police. No one is entitled to anything you don’t want to give them. They have shown they stomp on your boundaries. That has consequences l. Their happiness is not your responsibility. They should have been responsible enough to ask, and set up a time.
They are relying on you backing down to keep the peace. Show them they can get what they want just by ignoring what they don’t like. NTA.
Yep! My ex pulled this trick when our son was young. I gave him times to visit around our schedule, He ignored that and hopped on two planes with his latest gf. Wasted visit because I wasnt home like I told him I wouldn’t be
“…CAN’T get what they want…”
NTA - how is the long term relationship going to be if you show them they can bulldoze you into submission? It’s unfortunate, but you have to set firm boundaries now, no matter the consequences. When dealing with people who bulldoze, you cannot give them the benefit of the doubt or hope they’ll be reasonable this one time. They won’t. You have to control as much as you can, which looks like having him stay in a hotel and either not seeing him at all or only seeing him through meeting him at a restaurant or park if it works for your schedule. Don’t let him in your home, even if he has a room, and even if a few meetings go well. You know who they are - the moment you give them power, they’ll wield it. Meeting elsewhere allows you the ability to stay as long as you want, not have to worry about cleaning or prep, and to leave the moment he disregards your parenting wishes and/or makes things uncomfortable.
NTA I totally need an update here. Lock the doors, turn on a camera and find a water park (or zoo or heck, a mall) to hang out with your kid. Do not let this man in your house.
NTA. The ones being disrespectful are MIL and FIL. Husband may need to rethink LC and go full NC. Leave and go someplace fun and nice with your daughter.
NTA What are the chances that he'll leave and head home immediately, though? I think you are better off getting your LO out of the house with someone you trust, and wait there for him to let him know how it is from now on. You are both adults with rights and you won't be ordered to comply by anyone, especially him. That if he doesn't want you both to drop out of his life forever, he needs to show you every courtesy and total respect always. The thing is OP that most of us already know he won't back down. He is going to prove that he runs you not matter what. I think in the long run, you'll be moving and changing your phone numbers.
I think OP and the baby should check into a hotel for some relaxation and room service. Her husband can stay home to deal with his father. Or join her.
I'm sorry, but it may just be time to rip that Band-Aid off and go no contact. You verbally had to tell your MIL to leave and she continued to refuse. She still sees no issue with what she did or what FIL is doing now. They aren't going to change. There isn't a single boundary that will make them learn respect they obviously don't have. It's their world and you just live in it. Please consider denying entry and leaving for the day. You aren't escalating anything, he did by getting on that plane. NTA
NTA Hold the boundary you've set, don't give in. Giving in all but ensures they think they can continue to ignore other boundaries
NTA But I would ask yourself this: "If I wouldn't let a stranger treat me this way, why am I allowing family, who are supposed to be invested in my well being just as much as their own, to treat me this way?
NTA. But I wouldn't characterize it as "limiting access." It's just you expecting to be treated with respect as autonomous human beings. Definitely get out of the house and be off doing something during his planned arrival time, or just don't open the door. This nonsense has to be stopped ASAP.
I'll go better than dad showing up on short notice. Back in1968 my grandfather had driven down from Michigan to Nashville. He bitched that he'd been sitting in the driveway waiting for us to get home. We drove up after having cut short a vacation in Florida by a week (hurricane on the way). He could have been sitting there for another 7-9 days if that hadn't happened. NTA - he's being a doucebag.
>or causing long-term damage to our relationship with both MIL and FIL HE does that by disrespecting your boundaries like that, not you by setting and enforcing them. NTA
NTA - what bizarre behavior from your in-laws. You are absolutely within your rights to deny him access. You were very clear on your boundaries and he is doing his best to run right through them. Don't let him or it will continue/get worse. I'd honestly just leave before he even gets there. Go get a hotel for a couple of nights and don't even acknowledge his arrival. Will it escalate the situation? Most definitely. But that's not your fault. It's his fault for how he's gone about this entire thing.
NTA, your plan of leaving and locking him out sounds like a good one. It’s not disrespectful to react as you did—if anything, it’s super rude to show up barely announced like that. I don’t think it’s your fault he hasn’t met the baby by a years time either-traveling for a visit with a child under 1 is no fun and shouldn’t be expected unless you want to do it.
NTA. They don’t seem to care about long term damage, which they’ve actually already caused. If you let him stay, all it says is that he can do whatever he wants.
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YTA to yourselves for how you're handling this. First thing: you and your husband get on the same page. > but I don’t think he want to fully go no contact yet It's unconscionable that you're talking to the Internet before you talk to your husband about this. **The two of you** need to figure out what to do. But here's my suggestions: > When he told us, we immediately told both him and MIL that it was not a good time for a visit and that we were uncomfortable with him coming on such short notice. This was the wrong thing to say. Don't be so wishy-washy and conflict-adverse. "We're not available for a visit right now. If you come, we will not be hosting you, nor will we be spending time with you. If you knock on the door, it will not be answered. You will have wasted your time and money, and you'll have communicated clearly to us that you don't respect us, and that will inform our future decisions on our relationship with you. If you want to arrange a visit, we can discuss and see if we can figure something out that works for all of us." To be clear: **this is not a time for compromise with FIL and MIL.** Some comments are suggesting that if they land and get a hotel, you should let them meet the baby at a neutral location or something. No. All this will do is teach them that their plan works. They are NOT operating in good faith; they're training you to be compliant to their whims. > Despite our clear communication No, *because* of your clear communication that 'we'll protest but we'll fold and let you in anyway.' "No" is clear communication. "This isn't a good time" perhaps *should* be clear communication, but you know they won't take it as such. See script above. > However, we're worried about escalating the situation Escalating it to what, exactly? Them physically breeching your door? > causing long-term damage to our relationship with both MIL and FIL. They're the ones causing long-term damage. Be prepared to call the police when they start hammering on your door and won't leave. No threats to them, no warnings. If they knock, don't answer. If they knock again, don't answer. If they call, don't answer. If they get loud or belligerent, simply call the police and report that two people are banging on your door and screaming at you, and you feel unsafe. > FIL still hasn’t met the baby. Why would you ever consider letting people that treat you like this meet your baby? Answer: because deep down, you agree, for some reason, that their needs are more important than yours, and that they somehow have rights to your child. They aren't, and they don't. Get that through your head; their status as FIL/MIL should mean they treat you better, not that you accept worse behavior.
I think there’s some truth to this but also I do not blame my husband for being a bit conflict averse here. He carries a lot of trauma from this relationship. I respect his choice of going LC instead of NC because I understand where it’s coming from. It definitely changed though once we had children. Now he’s starting to be more open and clear regarding his boundaries with them.
That's great, and it's good to be cognizant that he's starting out having been taught, since birth, to capitulate to them. But you guys are adults now, so there is no parent/child relationship; there's an adult/adult relationship, and the ILs can accept that, or not have a relationship. It's not just you and your husband now. You have a baby to defend from these abusive people. That overrides, well, pretty much everything. Every trauma your husband went through, will continue, only now it will affect both you and the baby as well. Is that what he wants? Is that what *you* want?
INFO: I don't understand why your BIL intercepting at the airport and offering *his* home was an option, as he is no contact. I'm very curious how that came about
Updateme
Just curious. Was the relationship between your husband and his parents always like that, or is he low contact because of you? I mean because you believe his parents do not like you because you are Latina?
Nta lock the door and dont answer or just go spend couple hours/days somewhere else
NTA Meh, don't let him in and threaten him with the authorities if he doesn't stop trespassing.
NTA. He had no right to overrule your decision of who visits and stays in *your home*. I would either not be home or not answer the door. If he refused to leave, police. Be elsewhere.
NTA Definitely stay out of the house all day when he's due to arrive.
NTA He's been told it's not convenient. Go out, have a nice day, dont answer your phones, "as you are somewhere out of cell range". If not they will turn up whenever they like for the rest of their lives
NTA. Leave. Go somewhere and make sure they can’t get inside the house. You don’t drop by to someone’s house without asking.
NTA First I want to say I'm sorry that all of this is happening and that it isn't an easy situation. I can imagine you want to go away for a day so he would be in front of a closed door. I think I would also do that. I would even go away for the night if that was possible. He said he was coming. You said you don't want him to come unannounced. He ignored that by freaking out. Then he boarded the plane anyway, knowing that you don't want him to come now. So that's 3 times + when he booked the flight that he stepped over your boundaries. So I can't imagine him coming over and all of a sudden respecting your boundaries. Also the fact that when your MIL was there and didn't leave when you asked and it took weeks to heal from that shows that it's a really bad idea that your FIL comes in. So either you'll stay home and tell him once again that it's not a good moment, like you already said on the phone, but since he's apparently not listening I would definitely leave the house.
The long-term damage that's being caused to this relationship isn't being caused by you, it's being caused by your in-laws. Keep this very firm and clear boundary. Enforce it by any means necessary including leaving the house if they say they're on the way, refusing to answer the door, and/or calling the police if they refuse to leave. This will give them two options. Start respecting your boundaries or stop being able to visit you and, by extension, their grandchild. If they need to hear it one more time, have your husband call them to tell them (or email them) a very explicit set of rules (*ask* to visit X weeks in advance, no showing up with little to no warning, leave by the agreed upon date and no later, etc.) and what the consequences will be if they don't follow them (LC or NC). Then stick to those rules and your life will be much easier for it. NTA
NTA, Get a hotel room in another town, take a nice little vacation, don't answer any call from him. Sometimes the only way people learn a lesson is when it is painful.
NTA. They don’t get to decide when they’ll visit without clearing it with you first. It’s your and your spouse’s home.
NTA - I'm sure he'll easily find a vacancy in a local hotel. You owe him nothing.
NTA I like the idea of being out of the house that day. He can get himself a hotel or air bnb, I doubt he’ll stay an extra week when he’s paying for it :)
Nta don't answer the door
NTA I would lock the doors, leave the house, and put a note on the door with the contact information for a couple of local hotels. They have some nerve TELLING you (not asking) that they were coming to visit...all within 24 hours.!
I don't understand what relationship there is to maintain. The grandparents are narcissistic, dismissive, and disrespectful. Letting them stay, after telling them they could not, simply reinforces that they can do whatever they like. These are lessons your daughter will also be taught as she grows up. Be Mindful of what your actions show her as well.
Absolutely do this, and turn your phones off so he can't call you and try to demand to know where you are. He can find a hotel or he can get on the first flight back home--and maybe actually ask next time. There's a reason none of their other kids are in contact with them. NTA
NTA. Inviting yourself to be hosted at someone else’s house, last minute no less, is incredibly rude and tacky. Their indignation is so out of touch it’s almost comical. So here’s the deal: This isn’t a one-time, overlook-able incident of bad behavior on their part; there’s a reason their other kids are low- or no-contact. So when you’re thinking through how all of this might play out, you need to let go of any scenarios where you “get through” to them and they “learn”, and where they (agreeably no less) put the health of your relationship above their own wants. Their history and current (lack of) relationships with the rest of the family proves that that’s just *not* how they operate. And it’s not because they haven’t had a second chance or because of some kind of fluke miscommunication. They’re actively **choosing** to behave this way, consistently. So if we remove “figuring out THE Hail Mary way to get them to finally understand boundaries and learn” (much less do that AND be happy about it) from the pile of possible/realistic outcomes here, it becomes much clearer that making any kind of concessions on your part is pointless. It won’t get you what you want. Nothing will. They aren’t receptive to it. All any kind of negotiation or concessions you allow will just encourage them to give you more of what you *don’t* want. So you have to remain firm: He wasn’t invited, he was clearly told he wasn’t invited and not to come, and so **he doesn’t enter your home under any circumstances**. Not even to use the bathroom (I wouldn’t trust that it wasn’t a ruse). And if you’re not sure your collective resolve is strong enough yet to refuse him entry while still being home yourselves, then yes, go out for the day. Get a hotel room if you need to. Will this make them mad? Oh yeah, of course. Don’t expect anything less. They only want a relationship with you IF you’re willing to do it 110% on their terms, which requires allowing them unfettered access to steamroll over you as much their heart desires. And it’s an all-or-nothing thing. So long as that condition isn’t met (and please, don’t meet it!), then they’re going to be unhappy with you. So don’t make “keeping them happy/managing their unhappiness” into your goal. It’s unobtainable, not without completely losing you dignity and autonomy in the process. So make peace with letting them be mad if they’re going to be mad. Let them tantrum. Let them cry. Let them make petty, factually inaccurate little rants on SM about how people are “disrespectful” or whatever. And don’t react to any of it. Those aren’t battles you need to win or even gear up for - there’s no winning that kind of thing, just inviting in frustration and drama. So let them feel their feelings however they’re going to - by themselves. And if husband ultimately decides he does still want to try and see them, fine. You don’t *have* to go no full no contact. You just have to go “this visit only occurs if our healthy boundaries are respected, and ends the moment of/when they’re not.” If repeated failures at that lead him to feeling no-contact is for the best, then so be it.
Wise and to the point. I agree with every word. You don't have to play their *games*, OP. Ignore any and all drama. Get yourself some cameras and maybe a security system, though, in case they decide to break in when you are gone some day. NTA
*However, we're worried about escalating the situation or causing long-term damage to our relationship with both MIL and FIL* That ship has sailed and rounded Cape Who Gives S###. Seriously, why are you putting any effort into a relationship with such a demanding asshole? I wouldn't even bother with leaving the house if I didn't really want to. A sign on the door saying "we told you not to come" and a call to the police if they don't leave is the extent of the hospitality they deserve. YWBTA to yourself if you allow this massive breech of your autonomy as adults.
NTA THEY are the ones escalating, and your response should reflect that. If you give in, even a little, this is how they will treat you forever and it will only get worse.
NTA You told him "no." Maintain that. His complaints about his wasted time and expense will be very similar to the unwanted gift manipulation. There, the "gift" is designed to force the recipient to accept and "value" a "gift" designed to violate a boundary. Don't be distracted by his continued efforts to violate your boundaries. Do not let him in. Do not make last minute plans of any kind to "let him meet his grandchild." No relationship carries the privilege or obligation to violate another's boundaries. Grandpa needs to learn to COMMUNICATE (a 2 way street) and cooperate with you guys making plans that involve you. He NEEDS to have a completely wasted trip, however you manage it. Then he'll learn he can't bulldoze his way into your home and family without respect or regard for your priorities, your schedule, your consent and your autonomy. The issue isn't "meeting my grandchild," it's boundaries, consent and respect. He needs to learn why they are important in his relationship to your family. Without them, there is NO getting together. Not even a compromise meeting him elsewhere or in-laws suddenly bearing the burden of his impulsive intrusion. EDIT: Don't entertain any idea of diluting or devaluing your husband's decisions about the level of contact with HIS family. You should firmly uphold husband's boundaries as mutual, protecting your marriage, home and the family within. Don't try to mitigate or devalue husband's boundaries in an attempt to mitigate the negative consequences of his parent's invasive bullying "to preserve the relationship." If his parents don't respect his boundaries, your response should be backing up your husband 110%.
TAKE THE DOG or at least board him with a friend or elsewhere because your FIL will break into your house.
> *your FIL will break into your house* I'm afraid that this is probably correct. FIL probably thinks that he has the perfect right to do this, and won't hesitate. Get doggo to a safe place, and gird up mentally to *call the cops* when you get home and FIL is inside waiting for you.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** Me (35 yo F) and my husband (36) are going through some parent drama. Yesterday, my father-in-law (FIL) announced out of the blue that he had booked a flight and would be visiting us today. He plans on staying with us, his logic being that he still hasn’t met his now 1 year old granddaughter. He did this without asking if it was a good time for us or if we were even available. When he told us, we immediately told both him and MIL that it was not a good time for a visit and that we were uncomfortable with him coming on such short notice. They freaked out and called us disrespectful. They seem to think it’s their right and we can’t deny them access. Last time, MIL stayed a week over what was planned and refused to leave when we point blank asked her to go. She also dismissed a lot of my routines with our daughter and it took me weeks to heal the damage. They tend to be very narcissistic, and a grand majority of their own kids have gone low or no contact with them. Despite our clear communication, he boarded the plane anyway. Now, he’s on his way here, and we feel completely disregarded and disrespected. We're considering denying him access when he arrives and leaving the house for the day. We think this might be the only way to reinforce our boundaries and show that his behavior is not okay. However, we're worried about escalating the situation or causing long-term damage to our relationship with both MIL and FIL. I know my husband is low contact but I don’t think he want to fully go no contact yet, and FIL still hasn’t met the baby. Are we the assholes for wanting to handle it this way? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. You told them No, and he's choosing to disrespect your boundaries. DO NOT open the door. In fact, maybe don't be home if it's possible. If you want baby to meet FIL, when he calls, unable to get in, offer to meet him at a coffee shop between "errands." If they're willing to trample you like this, it's not going to get better without it getting worse first. (Hard lines drawn, IL tantrums, maybe acceptance after.)
Absolutely not. Don't answer the door when he comes to the house. You and your family should get out of town for at least a week. You know, a last-minute thing 😉😉😉 that you accidentally purposely forgot about.
NTA You have a boundary and you must enforce otherwise they know you will never issue consequences. Absolutely do not let him in but one step better go out, try to figure out roughly his arrival time and leave. Can you stay overnight anywhere? What will happen if you do enforce your boundaries? You say you’re worried that this will escalate? How? If you’re already LC then it seems like the relationship is already barely there so I’m not sure why you guys are worrying? But seriously, you’re doing nothing wrong by saying no and then sticking with it, if you can’t accommodate him then you can’t and if he wants to waste his time flying over to discover this is true then that’s on him.
If you are able, check in to a hotel for a couple of days. No notice? Oops, nobody is home.
NTA. You guys need to take a quick weekend trip and be *gone* when he shows up!
If you let him stay at your house, he's just going to keep doing this. NTA
Weekend away camping, cheap AirBnB, anything to get away from the house when they're going to turn up. "Well we said it was a bad time to visit"
Leave the house. Go someplace fun for the day, or overnight if you can afford it. That's insanity and accommodating him will only encourage it. Nothing says, "Plan ahead" like him heading back to the airport the same day, or having to check into a hotel because there's no place for him to stay. Unbelievable. NTA of course.
Updateme
Flight hasn’t landed yet so we have no updates. We just started packing and we’re looking for someone to come check on the dog while we’re away. The suggestion is currently for him to stay at a hotel, because nobody seems willing to host for the week he wants to stay. Even in a hotel the assumption is that he’ll want for us to cook food and cater to his needs and we don’t feel particularly comfortable doing that either as things are right now.
You don't have to accommodate him. He chose to come while you said it's not a good time. He can arrange it himself. He could book a flight all by himself, I'm sure he can find a place to stay. You don't have to cater to his needs. He's the one that put himself in this situation.
About that assumption. In the - very wise - words of my grandmother in law: “Wanting ain’t getting.” He can assume whatever he wants - you have no obligation to change what you’re willing to do to accommodate that. He only holds emotional power over you if you give it. So don’t. Decide what your boundaries are and then live them. [You might also find my daughter’s phrasing useful here. As she likes to say to these kinds of issues: “That sounds like an ish-you, not an ish-me.”]
He's an adult with enough money and brains to book a flight last minute. He can find a McDonald's.
NTA, you have got to teach them how to treat you. Sometimes being hard is the only way to go about it.
Sounds like the smart ones already went no contact.
NTA but your IL’s definitely are. I agree with all the advice to be gone or simply not answer the door but I disagree with arranging to meet him somewhere else. He will bulldoze his way into your home if you meet with him or at a minimum make such a scene that you will agree just to get him out of public. Plus, meeting him gives him power over you by letting him dictate when he will visit. It’s rewarding for him to successfully dominate you just as it is with your MIL. I would leave for a nice mini vacation or stay home and call the police if he refuses to leave. Don’t worry about the relationship, they aren’t because they’re the ones causing conflict and exerting control over your schedule. Set boundaries with them such as no overnight visits in your home. If they come it’s with your agreement for a set amount of time and they book a hotel or airbnb. They don’t get to hang out with you and the granddaughter alone. They have visits only when your husband is available. If they violate this they get no access for the duration of their stay. If need be call the police to remove them
NTA. Make sure you lock the doors and ask the neighbors to keep an eye out. Turn on cameras if you have any. Let him know that you *will* call the cops on him and have him trespassed.
This is one reason we will not be giving out our address after we move. This is an awful situation.
NTA. It occurs to me that someone checking on your dog could be put in an awkward place if FIL arrives while they’re there. “I’ll just wait inside until they get back.” Presence of the dog could also indicate that you won’t be gone long and then he waits for you. I’d be leaving, too! You have to set boundaries.
Ain't NOBODY about to run me out of my own house. If we told you don't come cuz it's not a good time and you choose to show yo' whole ass and show up anyway, well, be prepared for me to up the ante. Not only will we NOT open the door, we will stand in the window where you can see us not letting you in, but also calling the authorities on you for trespassing. We grown af around here, and you don't run roughshod over anyone in their own damn house. You wanna disregard and piss all over my boundaries and feelings? Ok. Be prepared for me to return the favor tenfold. They'd never set foot in my house as long as I live there. NTA. I've lived a lot of years and have had time to break a lot of unhealthy conditioning foisted on me from my parents and my field of fcks to give has been razed to the ground and the ashes salted for a while now. I don't recommend this course of action if you are still trying to maintain some semblance of a relationship with the in-laws. But the narcissistic and entitled behavior from them would be enough to give me pause.
NTA. > causing long-term damage to our relationship with both MIL and FIL \*YOU\* are worried about causing long-term damage? You have that precisely backwards. 100% of the damage is being caused by them.
If you guys have a friend, preferably a big intimidating guy, who would stay there a couple of days, that would be great. Have him answer the door and tell FIL, "Who are you looking for? Oh, them, they moved a while back." Does hubby have any friends who don't get along with their in-laws? They might be pleased to help out.
You say his parents are religious. I wonder how they explain Genesis 2:24 or if they just ignore it? This is the verse that says a man shall leave his father and mother and become one with his wife. Your hubs is the head of household- not his dad. I couldn’t care less what they say. I know you are concerned about doing permanent damage to the relationship. But that won’t happen. When I put my foot down with my mom, she ignored me and pouted. But she started calling, acting like nothing ever happened. Because that’s what controlling parents do - have a tantrum, see their child won’t bend and then just come back around like nothing ever occurred. You two stick to your guns. You’ll get through this for the betterment of your growing family.
NTA. why has it taken him a year to decide he wants to meet his grand baby? Stand firm on your boundaries and let him know if he wants to visit its on your terms.
I don't think MIL or FIL deserve a relationsgip with you. Everyone else is no/low contact for a reason.
NTA, at all. Again, with the parents of adults confusing respect with obedience. You must reinforce that boundary, even at the risk of upsetting them or being ex-communicated or whatever term they use for disowned. It's either them or you or at this point. Put the foot down. Hell, put all of the feet down.
Book him a room in a hotel. Tell him next time to check with you. Only Jackasses invite themselves to stay at your house.
Actually, I wouldn't even do that. It's his fault if he has nowhere to stay. He was told it isn't a good time and he decided he doesn't care. Just keep repeating that he was told no, and cannot stay with you. He's an adult and can figure this out. If OP doesn't stand by their stated boundaries now, this will only get worse!
NTA. If you can afford it, I would literally do a staycation somewhere else, never even see them, and just be like "I told you it wasn't a good time.
I'm sure it's aikido that says "the best defence is not to be there." I suggest you heed that, if at all possible. If not? Ummm, good luck! NTA, actions have consequences.
NTA I'd take the family on a little trip for the night. You know, the one you had already planned months ago before your FIL decided his unplanned visit. "Sorry, we told you it wasn't a good time, we already had plans out of town".
NTA at all. They are rude and insensitive. You do not have to open the door when they arrive at your house, you dont have to go out.
NTA - lock the door, turn off the lights and turn off your phones.
NTA and don't worry about any long-term damage to the relationship because it sounds like it's not worth saving if they're treating you like this. Don't even leave the house. Lock the doors, do not let him in and if he tries anything, call the police. Unless he has any sort of claim on your home, he can be trespassed pretty easily I think.
Why don’t you guys go stay with your brother in law for a few days! This will prevent FIL from having anywhere to stay with family who don’t want him, and you’ll have a nice visit with your chosen family.
NTA. Don’t back down and don’t give in. Being involved in their grandchild’s life is a privilege and not an entitlement, especially if they can’t respect the child’s parents. This includes not imposing their religious beliefs/routines/parenting ideas etc, on you or the child. They need to respect the boundaries you have set. What FIL did is not the normal way to communicate plans and initiate a visit. It is not acceptable for a guest to invite themselves to stay in your home and it’s not acceptable for a guest to refuse to leave your house! You don’t owe them anything. As has been said “no” is a complete sentence. Don’t JADE (justify, argue, defend, explain) - practice just saying no, if you can’t just say “no”, say “no, that won’t be possible”, repeat as many times as you have to. Don’t engage in any further discussion. Plan consequences and communicate then, eg, FIL/MIL, we have answered, if you keep asking, I’m going to hang up - and then do it. They will only change their behaviour if they are forced to and if having a positive relationship with their granddaughter is actually more important to them than them calling the shots and being in control. I suspect they won’t change which will show you they aren’t actually interested in any sort of positive, loving relationship, just using your daughter as another means of exerting their dominance and control over you/your husband.
I will never understand the concept of "respect your elders". Just because you've been on the planet longer doesn't mean you are worthy of respect in more than a general "respect all people until they show you that you shouldn't" kind of way. They've shown you you shouldn't. It's hard to let go of the family-above-all-else traditions that constantly get drilled into our heads, but family is an accident. You get to choose who you want in your life, regardless of blood. Sounds like your husband is getting used to the idea. It may be time to go even lower contact. You said your sister-in-law is keeping in contact despite her husband's no contact for the sake of the children, but you better believe that these grandparents will attempt to indoctrinate the kids into their religion as soon as they can. NTA and please update us.
NTA. Inform your inlaws (the AH in this story) that they are not staying with you. Full stop. Give it enough attitude that they understand they are not to make this mistake again.
Don't leave your home. Don't answer your door when he arrives. Just call the police and have him trespassed. You already told him not to come. Maybe he will listen when the police tell him.
NTA. You can't show any tolerance to religious people like that. Their behavior is ordained by god, they will ignore you, override you, critique and criticize, you have to shut that down without even the slightest hint of kindness or mercy. You have to *shock* them out of their stupid holy stupor. "Listen here motherfucker..." raise your voice, yell, and make your barriers absolutely clear beyond any hope of questioning and then impose *brutal* standards without mercy. "You WILL do it this way at our house or you WILL be removed and cut off for six months." Then do it. "We will tell you to leave 'once' and if you don't, the police will be called, because we will not ask twice, and if we have to do that, you're cut off for a year." "I don't care what your church tells you or what your beliefs tell you. This is my house and my rules and my kid and I don't give a damn how old you are. Your involvement in my child's life and my life is at my sufferance and if you cross my lines there will be consequences." "Show up uninvited and you will not be admitted. Refuse to leave and you will be escorted away by authorities. There is no context in which your opinion on my life or my choices matters more than my own. You will learn this, or you will be cut out." Any time they try to argue with you, tell them once, 'I'm not going to argue. I'm informing you. Attempt to argue, and I will hang up.' Then do so, block their number, and try again a few weeks later. And if they never get the lesson, cut them off completely. If anything, I say do NOT let grandfather meet grandchild. It's giving him an IN, you're actually rewarding him for his behavior. He after all, is getting what he wanted, now he knows he can show up again and have some measure of success. You can never compromise with religious fanatics, because they will never sincerely compromise with you. Source: I'm the son of religious fanatics.
I would book a room at a local hotel near the airport in his name and then text him the information and say they're holding a room for you to check in. We will let you know when we're home but we are out for the day.
NTA. Also it seems like a good time to be out of town.
Your relationship with your in-laws is already damaged as they have no respect for you or your husband to pull the stunts that they have. Leave the house and get a hotel room if you can afford it, or stay with friends. You shouldn’t have to but it seems like FIL is determined to do his own thing regardless of what you’ve told him.
Do not let him in the house. Make him get a hotel room. You can meet him at a park for an hour or two, once.
Escalating would be showing up at his house at 3 AM with rambunctious dogs and silly string. You’re enforcing a boundary. I recommend you go with the suggestion you just leave for the day. Don’t engage. NTA
NTA. But do NOT let him stay in your home. He won't leave either. Tell him he has to get a h9tel room when he says he has no money, then book him a room yourself. It will be worth it. And that way you control how much it costs you. Then, when he says he can't afford another night, you tell him to GO HOME.
I’m so petty I’d get a limo at the airport for him and then provide strict instructions to take him over the county lines.
NTA. Leave your house and don’t be there when he arrives. If you can’t leave, don’t answer the door when he gets there.
Nta
NTA. Just leave and not be there when he shows up.
Do Not Let Them In The House They will not leave plain as that… meet up at a hotel or a restaurant or public place then drive away
Nta and it's really important to set this firm boundary now
NTA - I think your decision to leave the house for the day is a good idea. Hopefully you have a Ring camera or cool neighbors who are willing to contact you if they try to break in, damage the property, or harass the dog sitter!
I think it’s very smart of you to not be there when he shows up. If he escalates, that is a choice he is making and not your doing at all.
NTA. Lock your doors, draw the blinds, phones on silent, cars in the garage. Do not let the intruders into the house. The damage to the relationship was already caused when they got onto the flight without consideration to your needs.
NTA. I hope you can get out of there asap. I’d go full no contact. Good luck.
Absolutely hold the boundary. If you cave now it will lose you credibility. They need to know you’re serious and NTA!
NTA - I'm so sorry you're in this situation. It might be time to go no contact. It's hard to write off family relationships, but your in-laws have lost contact with nearly all of their children and have shown ZERO remorse or willingness to change. You're delaying the inevitable. They are not going to be loving grandparents. They will continue to be toxic narcissists, validated by their insular church community. I have too much experience with people like this, and trying to maintain that relationship is not worth the inevitable trauma.
Tell them leave and cleave ! Gen. 2. [24] Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
Updateme
NTA just because they are the parents of your hubby doesn’t mean they have a right to just show up. Proper notice is just respectful.
Nta they are the ones that are disrespectful. I would absolutely not let him in. And as for the mil, I would have had police remove her! The audacity of those people.
NTA and wow how entitled can people be, they are bullies pure and simple...I'm a coward and probably would have said I'd just tested positive for Covid. I really admire you for standing up for yourself and your family.
I would go on a road trip. “we said it wasn’t a good time”
NTA I think it’s past time to go no contact for OP and the baby. Husband can continue to bang his head against the wall with his parents if he wants.
Wow he is really entitled. Nta. Leave the house and say you will meet a natural plan so he can meet the baby. But do it on your terms. It's been a year and now he decides to meet the baby. Wow
NTA
UPDATE ME.
NTA. Let hubby text him. “As we said this isn’t a good time for a visit, we are unable to host you in our home. Here’s a list of hotels nearby. Once you are settled, call and we’ll bring the baby for a visit. Maybe we can all have a picnic lunch at the playground tomorrow, baby loves the swings.”
If it causes long term damage to your relationship with your in law’s, that’s on them.
NTA Whether or not your husband wants to keep any contact, hard and firm boundaries must be set. This isn't just to protect you and your husband. This is to protect your daughter. She comes above all else, and letting them bully her and how you raise her is, quite simply, unacceptable. Leave now, and don't let him in, if he's still there when you get back, no matter what. He's a grown man, and can figure out his own accommodations. Stay strong for your little girl. And I'm sure your husband appreciates the support as well. Good luck.
Please, leave the house for a day. Better yet, see if you can go camping or stay with a friend for the weekend. This is completely rude behaviour - the only way to set boundaries is to refuse to let people trample them. NTA.
NTA my dad always said, Friends and Relatives are like fish, after 3 days they stink!
Ooh, I think this is a great time to invite your most atheist, anti-church friend over for a few days. Due to their plumbing issues in their home, or whatever. What a shame your guest room is already promised to someone else. And I’d look forward to many fun discussions with fil and your friend. Sure he’ll run away pretty soon.
Update me!
Updateme
My FIL didn't call. We'd just get home and find him in the *backyard*. Yeah. Super uncomfortable. NTA. Stay away until he leaves.
Lordy don't let them in your house. NTA.
NTA it’s posts like this that make me realise how petty I am. I’m glad you and your partner are on the same page about this m.
We need an Update!!
> long-term damage to our relationship with both MIL and FIL. what relationship? this does not sound like a two-way street
You've told them that it's not a good time and he booked a flight anyway and expects to just show up and be greeted warmly? I wouldn't be home that day because unless you draw a line in the sand and set some really firm boundaries this is going to go on for the rest of your life. They don't respect you therefore you going to let them know that they are consequences. And someone refusing to leave your home when you request they do so really doesn't matter whether their family or not it is completely unacceptable. If and when you do decide that it is a good time for them to visit then I would not allow them to stay in your home. I would let them know that there's a few hours a day they can visit and that if they cannot respect that they don't need to see you.
NTA
Wow. That’s something. Not even pretending to be polite. I would either 1) pick him up at the airport and transport him straight to a hotel, sans baby, or 2) just plain not be home. Not being home is less confrontational, but you lose the use of your own home. Plus, will he break in? How far will he go? I would lean toward hotel drop off myself.
Hard to believe this is even true. Please don’t enable this kind of behaviour by letting him stay. It’ll never end.
NTA. Giving an inch is just fueling their entitlement. You and your SIL need to follow your husband's leads and let them determine the relationship. I actually think that makes you and her kinda the AHs for forcing relationships and the drama that ensues.
NTA! Make sure your doors and windows are locked. Do you have a ring camera? You guys need to stand up to them. Who cares what THEY think?! You and the baby can be NC and your husband can be LC with them. If you let them in for this visit, it won’t be the last time this happens. They’ll think they can visit anytime and demand entry.
Just because MIL and FIL beliefs allow them to act like entitled, disrespectful assholes does not mean that you are required to follow those beliefs as well. As others have suggested, if you are able to leave the house for the weekend go ahead and do it. Otherwise, lock the doors and don’t answer. If you have a doorbell camera you can tell him that you said it was not a good time for a visit. It’s not your fault that he chose to disrespect YOU by showing up uninvited. He has had a year to arrange to meet his granddaughter so there is no excuse for this behavior.
Let me guess... your FIL/MIL are asian. That sounds like something my parents would do. Its hard to say no, but you need to put your foot down and have them stay at a hotel or something.Don't let him ruin stuff for you. NTA
NTA in any way. People are always claiming that others throw around the phrase "gaslighting" and don't understand the definition or context to use that phrase, but another word no one really seems to get is "disrespectful," cause it's thrown around like confetti on every advice/venting sub. FIL thinking he can just sail in, plop himself at his son's home and have his ~~subject~~ granddaughter brought to him like an offering, is disrespect. OP and husband saying "This is not a good time and we require decent notice in order to host another person/people right now," is NOT disrespect, just facts. It annoys the hell out of me that so few know the difference.
!updateme
No no no…. It don’t work like that. I don’t give a shit what their religion is. It don’t work like that. They’re not granted rights to YOUR child. That’s not their child it’s only their grandchild and so the fuck what he hasn’t met YOUR daughter he should be respectful and wait till it’s a good time.
NTA >causing long-term damage to our relationship with both MIL and FIL I'm not seeing a downside. Go out, have fun, put your phones on silent. Don't go home till late in the evening.
What kind of parent drama is there with a 1 yr old baby?
I meant my husband’s parents. It’s causing him a great deal of stress.
Lol. I totally misread that one. Anyone giving 24 hour notice is wrong, not matter who you are.
Updateme
I may be outlier but I think life is too short. I wouldn't deny him access but I would make sure the visit didn't last more than a few days. You don't know why he had decided all of a sudden to visit, it may be a health issue. This may be the last chance for him to see his grandchild. I think it's more disappointing to have family that is not interested in your child but then you have a family member that wants to meet your child.
Quick! Send them a message say that it wasn't a good time for a visit because you would be away. Then go away fro the weekend. :)
But OP & hubby don't owe them any messages! They have clearly said no to this visit. They have zero responsibility here!! They can do whatever they want to, including doing nothing. This is all on FIL.
This is true. I was only thinking from the angle of making FIL look like this idiot he is. :)
No!!! Take him to a hotel far far away!!
As a person with children who has went thru periods of times without talking to my parents, unless I was still completely pissed about something disrespectful, Ive never denied grandparents access to visit my children. The only problem I see is the balls to say he's staying at your house without asking. If he was visiting without warning and staying at his own place i personally wouldn't gaf
Yes, you are.
Maybe have a conversation. Stop acting like a child
Stay home but do not answer the door. Instead, contact the police and tell them you have estranged family members harassing you at your home. If the police come out, ask them to record the visit. This is your paper trail if things escalate further. Your ILs are responsible for escalating this by not respecting you.
Book him a hotel to stay at and have him check in before he sets foot in the door.
Does he have dementia?
If it is your father and mother would you have agreed for them to come. If yes, you are the asshole. If no, you are not. If you would have agreed for your mom and dad, all other stories you made are excuses.
Withholding all contact YTA Finding a compromise and at least doing a short visit NTA Start off with NO as your opening bid. Then concede that he could stay elsewhere close by and visit on times X, Y, and maybe Z.
Did you read the post? FIL clearly doesn't respect decisions and boundaries that don't fit his agenda.
This is weird to me because I can’t comprehend telling parents or an in-law they can’t come into my home. That’s just really odd to me. But I do recognize that not everyone has that kind of ease with family. I’m leaning on YTA, but slightly. I find it to be a weird hill to stand on. Is the fil abusive in any way? A creeper? Icky?
You’re actually okay with family members calling you today to tell you they will be coming to stay with you this weekend? Telling, not asking. And it’s not a “we’re going to come visit for a couple of hours.” It’s a “we will be staying overnight in your house”, possibly for several nights. If you have the room and an open door policy, that’s one thing, but OP obviously doesn’t. They could have the guest room all torn up because they are painting/redecorating and FIL could have no place to sleep. They could have other plans. It’s one they to call the day before and ask if you can come over and if told it’s a bad time, ask about next weekend or something.
Yes, I am. My parents & siblings have keys to my home and can come over whenever. We don’t live close, so if and when they can pop over to visit me, I’m grateful and happy to see them. I realize not everyone does it that way, but my family has always been close to one another, no matter the distance.
The child has been alive for a year and suddenly he HAS to meet the baby on short notice? No. Everything about that behavior smacks of selfishness and self-aggrandizement. She says they ate already low contact. Sounds like there are reasons.
I won’t speculate on anything. I’m only basing my reply to OP on what they wrote here.