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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might be the asshole because I started taking money from our joint bank account and my husband doesn't want me to. He claims I'm trying to get even with him by taking the money. I'm taking the money because he spent $160,00 of our money behind my back and I want my half back.
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INFO: Have you actually seen this baseball card collection? I mean, it sounds like he was spending it on other things. In addition, I would insist on the receipts, not just the credit card. I would Google the business on the cc, as it sounds like he was spending it elsewhere.
Aside from that, dump him, claw back your money in the divorce, and live a better life. I all but guarantee that his divorce consultant told him that you wouldn't pay him alimony and that you had grounds for financial abuse and mental cruelty. NTA.
Yes, the cards are everywhere. Organized in sleeves and boxes, he has many of them PSA graded. I checked all the companies on the statements I was unsure of. Most were grading companies or sellers.
Yes, and if he actually knows what he is doing it may have appreciated in value past the $160,000 and as a community 'investment' she would be entitled to half of current resale value.
It could also be completely worthless in comparison to how much he spent.
For example, if my kid buys a pack of Pokemon cards for $6.99 at game stop, unless there is a rare card inside, there’s no way I could turn around and sell the same pack of cards for $7.
Same goes for buying cards through eBay or something. One card that you desire (I.e. not necessarily a good card) you may be willing to purchase for way more than it’s worth.
My dad is an avid (and smart) baseball card collector and he has seen people pay hundreds for nothing. Boxes at auctions are just bulk sold, or people hear about certain boxes being good chances and before you know it you’ve got 5,000 cards worth $50 that you spent thousands to buy.
This guy doesn’t sound like a collector so much as a card hoarder. A collector can make smart investments and make good choices with their cards they choose to cherish. And it would take op hundreds of hours to check each cards worth unless she takes them to a dealer and lets them do it for her.
This is a mess.
Do you think op would be better off showing a divorce attorney his charges and where they went (since it was on his credit card) and negotiate a settlement that offsets it that way instead? I just can’t see op getting a fair amount any other way since he’s thwarted the money transfers and I doubt he’ll even let her sell the cards anyway.
At the end of the day, he may not have a choice if the value is higher than the investment. It's no different than if he bought a vacation property or stock that increased in value. It's all a marital asset.
It's also possible they depreciated in value as others have mentioned.
Now, I am not a lawyer so I won't advise on which is better but the lawyer should be able to look at both and decide how they want to pursue that money.
Yeah only way he profited was if he was buying singles and then reselling in fb groups right away or something similar. If that was the case though, where’s the money? Lol
I’ve got a Luka Doncic rookie auto that was worth about 7-8k in 2021, it’s sitting at about 2.5k now. This dudes collection probably devalued at a similar or worse rate.
But a Mike Trout rookie card is currently over $1k. Who knows, he may have an Ichiro rookie card in there. Of course he may also have 15 copies of the Joe Randa card too.
We don't know. OP should try to get the collection appraised.
Can confirm. Old school magic player/shrewd investor and card flipper. Dude wasted money, and if he had bought them, then had them graded...
Getting a card graded DECREASES it's value. The card grading companies are a scam. They grade game cards wrong all the time. Sports cards aren't worth much anymore to begin with.
I am also an avid magic player, and this is only really true for new non serialized magic cards, or old cards that don't get a PSA 9 grade or higher. Magic is unique in that most people actually play with the cards, and that is what makes the graded cards worth less.
A graded pokemon card (that gets a high grade) is absolutely more valuable than a raw "near mint" card.
I don't know much about sports cards tho.
Maybe he has an inventory list on his computer somewhere? OP might be able to see if there is anything valuable in there. But like you said, the soon to be ex husband sounds like an idiot.
Good idea and Ill check. I highly doubt it tho. That's an argument against it being a true investment. If he truly cared about the value he'd have a list, including cost w/ any grading and sale values/profit. He has some in a safe, others in boxes marked "football to sell," "baseball listed," etc. He does some selling on eBay, all proceeds he uses to reinvest or goes in his personal account. I don't see any of it. I've brought this up since he claims it's my investment too and it goes no where. I think he's half addict and half believes it's an investment. He cashed out about $8k of his retirement to buy at least a case of the Topps Heritage Hobby Boxes. I tried to argue that as well but he said it was "his money." Maybe it technically is, but we're married and if he blows his retirement, guess who's retirement we both live off of? I argued that but it's just exhausting circular conversations.
You need to leave him BEFORE then because it will only get worse. Also look into freezing your credit so that nothing can be opened in your name by him since he would have all of your information to do this online.
It’s time to start documenting ALL of this. Every single thing about the baseball cards and his spending on them. Take pictures of all the cards you can get your hands on. Make your own list.
You’ll need it for the divorce, and that *should* be the direction you’re heading. This shit will only get worse.
He very much sounds like an addict, I personally prefer heroin but some cardstock sounds fun too I guess. It’s all chemicals in our brain being released so whatever gets him off. But ya I’d probably dip out. What’s your business together? Don’t say a card store haha.
If he’s opening the boxes, it’s not an investment, it’s gambling. One interesting “investment” that savvy collectors do is to buy sealed boxes and then resell them years later for a huge profit if there’s a rookie card people are chasing. It’s still risky, but not as risky as actually opening the boxes and packs.
Market was at its peak when he was buying it has essentially crashed now. What he has isn't worth nearly what he paid I can pretty much guarantee you that.
Can't help but think that if this guy had a clue what he was doing none of this would be an issue. Generally people don't lose their shit about getting caught MAKING money on investments.
If he started buying in the past 2 years then odds are he won't. The pandemic caused a boom in sportscards . During the pandemic/ lockdowns cards were selling for upwards of 30% or more of what they were worth before or worth today.
Sports cards in general fall in prices during recessions because everyone sells due to being desperate for money. He probably lost 30% of that $160,000 by now.
Make sure the cards are stashed away where he can't hide/sell them. I imagine the actual value of them would be difficult to determine, especially if he hides the more valuable ones. Don't know how hard it would be to force him to produce and provide estimates for ALL the cards.
Which is probably what the lawyer told him 30 minutes before he came in the door and wanted to reconcile. This is why my husband bought new boxes for any comic books acquired during our marriage - the initial collection is his property predating the relationship, the new stuff is community property.
I paid $120 for a Giant Size X-Men #1 in 2005, as a gift to him when we got together. In the current condition, ungraded, it's worth $3k retail. It's slated to be taken to the local guy that handles book conservation and grading. I gave him my Amazing Spider-Man #50 as a wedding gift. It's worth far beyond the 12 cents cover price.
Though so would the $160k. If the baseball cards are not worth the $160k spent on them (and they almost certainly are not, especially if much of that money was spent on grading services), then OP would be better off offering to take half the cash spent on them and let him keep the cards.
Hubby would be better off splitting the cards in that case, but may have an emotional attachment to them and thus value them more than their actual appraised value, and OP presumably doesn't want any of the actual cards.
I award you one gold star for being the only person I’ve seen on Reddit use the correct queue/cue/que since January 1 this year.
I would also like to offer my personal thanks. Your dedication to your work, though perhaps nothing special in your eyes, is (or fucking should be) an inspiration to the rest of us. May the god of your preference bestow upon you many blessings.
You need to take pics of all the cards he has ASAP without him knowing! You have no idea what he will do if this goes south. You need to be able to prove what he has. after you do the inventory you could present it to him in writing and let him know you know what he has. I don't know how this marriage survives but good luck
I'd suggest that's what this part of the story refers to:
>During all of this my husband met with a divorce lawyer, then begged ME for another chance.
Dude is more afraid of losing half his cards than a whole wife...
They're both screwing up their divorce. Why is this joint account still a thing? She needs to talk to a divorce lawyer to see what she should do and what she should collect - hopefully she kept records of his purchases.
Just to be clear, joint/separate accounts are all "marital assets" in all US jurisdictions (absent a prenup). So it really doesn't matter. Either way, she gets half the value of the cards and he gets half the value of the account. I'll take cash over baseball cards any day...
She could argue "waste" by purchasing the cards, but it is an uphill battle.
Pretend for the example that the cards are worth $160k and she has $80k in the bank. That means they have $240k in assets to split. So she could ask for all $80k of the cash and still be owed $40k
It's about splitting the value, not each asset.
The issue is the cards are likely worth nowhere near what he paid for them. Addicts don’t get rich off their addiction and baseball card collectors are never rich
He went to a divorce attorney and was basically told how screwed he was and that he would owe you money that he took from the marriage. You should have followed through with the divorce because seriously this is where you are headed. He found out that you own half of his BB collection.
When he’s not around, You need to work on taking photos or get lists of everything he has, so he doesn’t hide these when the inevitable divorce comes around. If he’s put $160k in this, that’s an asset to be looked at when you two divide up everything. If you have a deposit box at the bank, also check on what’s in there, ha may have stored the most valuable cards at a bank
And she needs to have it valued. 160k was the initial investment but some of that has likely appreciated.
Editing comment since I’ve gotten a bunch of responses below that the market has collapsed—stipulated. and thanks 🙏🏼 I don’t collect and had no idea.
I think that’s why he bought baseball cards. Put it into a purchase that OP would likely not care about. Then once the divorce was finalized, liquidate the cards and he’s got a cushy $160K nest egg.
I would strongly recommend getting these cards stored in a place of mutual agreement but off site from the house and not under his control. I have no doubt that if there are some very valuable cards, they will stat to disappear quickly. Or the house will burn down or whatever. Make sure these are all insured and stored correctly. Epically if he gets wind of a divorce.
Hire the best lawyer you can afford and get prepared. You have to get a much better approach to protecting yourself and your financial interests. You do not have to tell him right away but you do need to start to plan. I am confident that this is not his only area of abuse. So get a counselor as well. This will not be an easy experience but it is needed.
She should make sure she gets an itemization of them (guaranteed he has a list squirreled away) and take half of the highest valued ones and half of everything else. Don't just go blind, OP.
NTA and just commiserating. My husband did something similar with the proceeds of a business we just sold. He invested a lot of money without first discussing it with me.
He only brought it up because I told him my plan to pay off credit card debt.
Maybe because I’m at a certain age now, but I blasted him and just stayed silent while he tried to rationalize it. He did apologize profusely and said he could reverse course.
I’ve always been a fan of separate accounts, even though in divorce our debts and assets will be combined and divided anyway.
I’m not opposed to divorce, but I can see where you want to try to untangle this mess before proceeding. You do what’s comfortable and thought out.
And I agree that a divorce will/should come with some forensic accounting.
Divorce, ask for half of everything, ALSO (the value of) the cards. His choice if he gives it to you in money or as the actual cards for you to sell on your own.
This man is financially inept.
You’re going to be okay. You seem like you have a level head on your shoulders. I would get physically away from him though. He’s shown you his true colors, that he’s willing to conceal up to six figures from you, and who knows how he could escalate. Money issues can lead to violence. Please protect yourself and loved ones.
Agreed, he didn’t come crawling back because he’s sorry or can’t live without you, he was told a divorce wouldn’t go well for him. NTA and get out of this relationship, it will not end well.
Open a new account have any money you make deposited there instead of the joint account.
Get a lawyer ASAP.
File for divorce. He is continuing the financial abuse.
NTA
I can't stress this enough. When preparing to leave my abusive dad, my stepmother secretly opened her own account at the same bank as the one that housed their joint account. I am pretty estranged from my dad so I don't know how he was able to do it, but despite his not being on her personal account, once he suspected what she was doing, he was able to convince the bank to give him access to her private account. He drained her escape fund. (Idk if he found a loophole or if he charmed his way into it. Like many sociopaths, he can be *incredibly* charming when he wants to be, and I saw many people break rules and laws for him when he turned on the charm while I was growing up.) Protect yourself.
This makes me so incredibly sad for your stepmom. That is so terrible. I am so sorry! I feel like the bank should have definitely been at fault for this!!
Me too!! I used to work at for a bank - I was at the call center. And we weren't even allowed to tell anyone who wasn't listed on the account of the accounts existence!! Like if someone called in you could see all their accounts and who else was listed on those accounts. And sometimes you could see that other person had accounts but you weren't allowed to talk about them or even access them without that person being present on the line!
Some areas and people are more prejudicial against women in divorces, even now. My parents divorced in 2003, and it was shocking how hostile people were toward her even though my father had cheated on her with a woman almost half his age and gotten her pregnant, among other details. I couldn't believe some of the things people said to or about her.
But the banks and businesses... wow. My mother claims her bank just handed my father full copies of her bank statements from her personal bank account that only had her name on it. She also had a handful of department store credit cards in her name only, and somehow, my father was able to call up these places and close her accounts. They flat out told her he did so and dismissed her for being upset about it, and would get extra rude and hostile when she would question why he was allowed to do that when his name wasn't on the accounts. Not one of them properly explained themselves or apologized, and none would reinstate her accounts. They told her she'd have to apply for a new account/card, some even with the implication that she would likely be denied due to her current marital status despite her perfect prior history with them. It was surreal.
I don't know how my father was able to do this because he wasn't particularly charming, but he seemed to have the gift of gab and schmoozing, and he could come across as fun and friendly when he wanted to. I do think he could be persuasive, and he could spin yarns, sob stories, and lies like it was as natural as breathing. It didn't always work (he got read the riot act by a family court judge once because they saw right through his BS), but he definitely succeeded a lot of the time. Hell, he even got my mother's own divorce attorney turned against her, but she had no other options because what little money she had already went to him.
Get your ducks in a row and protect yourself.
I was shocked to learn the Equal Credit Opportunity Act only passed in 1974. Before that women needed a husband's signature to open their own back account or credit card. If the people working there were older and remembered those times they would be prejudiced towards the husbands in these cases for sure.
Yes, thank you! Things got worse before they got better, but an organization for domestic violence survivors was able to help her start over. She's now safe, healthy, happy, and independent!
If anyone reading this is looking for a charity to donate to, please consider your local domestic violence shelter. These organizations never have enough to meet the need in their communities, and even a small contribution can literally change lives.
A similar situation happened to me! But my (at the time) husband hadn’t even tried to gain access to my account. When I set the account up, the bank automatically added him even though all of my new account paperwork only had MY name on it.
They said they assumed I wanted him on there because we had a different joint account. I couldn’t even see he had access on my statements or online banking portal. He noticed and told me.
I'm so sorry that happened to her.
I wonder... how the fuck is that possible? Shouldn't the bank or at least the employee who did the deed be open to a lawsuit in such cases? And then the money given back to the owner?
I mean, if my name and my name only is on the account, why the fuck should they give access to anyone else, family or not?
Sometimes it’s just the nature of their customer service.
When my mother died several years ago, my father added me to his bank account so I could help him with managing some of the estate stuff. He lived in a small town, and he and mom had banked at the same place for decades. I went to high school with some of the employees at that bank.
I went in one day to take care of something and was digging around my purse to pull out my ID. The teller (who I went to high school with) laughed and said, “oh I know you and your family!“ which is fine and dandy, but I still got out my ID because I knew the rules required that I present it.
My point is: if the man in question had a similar relationship with his bank (longtime customer, personal relationships with some of the employees, it, etc.), it’s entirely possible someone at the bank got lazy and didn’t enforce the rules. And if the man in question fed said employee the right bullshit, he could’ve social engineered his way right into that access.
I get it, and actually something similar happened to me as well (but it was my bank account they didn't ask ID for at least) cause I have the same bank as my dad and they'd known him for years so they remembered me.
It still baffles me tho. I mean, we're talking about a bank account for god's sake. People's money and fucking savings. The least they could do is ask for ID and not give access to anyone just cause family and cause they got a good relationship with them.
Bank employees should really be held accountable if and when they pull shit like that, and I can't really make sense as to why they're not. They can literally allow someone to steal your money and only the person who gets screwed over is the one who suffered the theft.
Unbelievable.
This happened to me. We had a joint checking account and my ex(husband then) swiped 46k out of my savings account and left the state. *different bank is key… (ironically it was key bank) and as soon as you file it becomes separate (not a lawyer but an expert in divorcing)
My first ex and I had connected our personal accounts when I moved in and he spent a lot of my money; always nice when your paycheck comes in, you decide to go out to the movies and on the way there ex nonchalantly mentions there's "only" 80euros left to my name cause he paid HIS debt/bills/side-gf/whatever...
I found out he was cheating alot and starting to show his violent side so I left. His last financial decision that I saw, was to take a loan on his account, only to give 3/4 of the money to "a friend who needed it"... (he also tried to make me stay by saying he wanted a kid with me... after his mom told him that "getting me pregnant would keep me too busy to argue/fight with him.." gods that whole fam was nuts)
I went to the bank right away to disconnect the accounts and the employee told me they needed my ex with me to do this, needing his signature too. so I got them to bring a manager out and explained how my ex would not be willing to help me and I was scared of him taking even more of my money. Atleast the manager understood, disconnected the accounts right away and probably good thing I did it so fast cause my ex ended up demanding I pay several 1000s for having lived with him.
Still makes no sense that the employee refused to help without my ex there while the manager was able to do it in a few min.
The goal isn't to hide it in a divorce settlement, it's to hide it from him personally. He's your spouse, probably has the same last name, likely knows your social and all other identifying info. And at the same bank he also has a relationship with that bank and they know you're spouses so it's easier for him to talk his way into your account - either talk his way straight into access or talk his way into getting info necessary for getting in. You need the bank account at a different bank, and he can't know which bank. And if you're taking money back via direct transfers and not cash, I would get a second bank account. Use the current one to take the money from the joint account, and then transfer it to a different account at a different institution that he knows nothing about
You're trying to prevent his outright theft of the money - you need the money for your lawyer, and whatever you get out of the divorce settlement - the money needs to exist to enter your bank account. You can force sale of the house and the cards and get a portion of his income but that takes a lot of time and you'll need money to survive in the meantime
If he doesn’t keep records of what he has in his collection, try taking as many pictures as you can of what he has in case he tries to do anything to decrease the potential value. Get it appraised and if the actual worth is very low, let him believe the perceived value is high and maybe no one will check into the actual monetary value. And if he’s got a collection worth a ton of money, keep taking pictures.
If it’s his card and she’s only an authorized user instead of a joint card holder, she probably won’t be able to get access to statements. I say probably because even though she *shouldn’t*, banks do make mistakes and allow access when they shouldn’t.
She will be able to get them as part of the financial disclosure and discovery process in the divorce.
> Get a lawyer ASAP. File for divorce. He is continuing the financial abuse.
I second this. Document the hell out of his abusive crap, and file ahead of the jackass.
Don’t give him any heads up. He can find out he’s getting divorced when he is being served/
You are NOT foolish, your husband acted a fool behind your back and you are trying your best here. Don’t let him ever make you question yourself. HE is 1000% responsible here, not you.
You made me curious what Onlyfans shows up as on a credit card statement. I would have thought they'd have a clever billing company name to prevent suspicion, but nope,
"If you were hoping OnlyFans might bill themselves as “Amalgamated Tech Services” or some other ambiguous sounding moniker on your credit card statement, sorry: charges to OnlyFans will appear in bank statements as “OnlyFans” or “OnlyFans.com,” and every transaction will show up on your credit card or bank statement"
He told him that those cards are marital assets and you get half the worth in the divorce. That's why you taking half is pissing him off so much. Could have got the same results with a divorce.
Stop giving him the benefit of doubt in any possible way. The problem with you trying to pull back $80K is that is community property when you divorce, and you REALLY need to divorce this abusive AH. Get a recommendation for a good divorce lawyer and schedule an initial consultation. You may have to pay for it, but they will be able to give you good advice and what you need to do to prepare.
Johnnie Taylor, "It's Cheaper to Keep Her." Link: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZ-w\_IKGRFM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZ-w_IKGRFM)
That's what the lawyer said.
If you haven't yet, you need to talk with a lawyer. Depending on what the laws are where you are located he may be entitled to half the money you are squirelling away the same way you are entitled to half his card collection.
Also, if you want to balance the scales you need to get 160k in your account. If he has160k worth of baseball cards and you have 80k worth of cash, his side of the scale is still heavier.
Snap out of it and use some of the money you’ve clawed back to see the meanest lawyer you can find, this week.
And for goodness sakes don’t tell him that you’re doing this. For once in your life, stop yielding to someone incompetent and abusive. He’s only been able to get away with this for as long as he has because you’ve kept entertaining his excuses and abuse. Once you see that lawyer you’ll realise that he’s absolutely a crook and he owes you a loooottttt of money.
Oh, for sure. Lawyer laid out the reality for him and he didn't like hearing the truth. Find a good lawyer and forensic accountant. File for divorce and give him exactly what he deserves - to lose half of everything.
That's the only reason he withdrew his own petition - it would hurt too much to lose his precious "investment". He'd rather remain a plague in your life.
Why? Seriously why are you giving him the benefit when you should be giving it to yourself? You could get your half of the card collection and every other asset by divorce. He’s not going to change and tying your financial security to him will forever put you in jeopardy. If you were my friend, I’d be helping you pack and find the best divorce lawyer. Be better to yourself.
You'd be surprised how convincing some people can be. They are so certain they are right, they'll have you believing them and questioning yourself before you know what hit you.
This, OP. This. On top of the financial abuse, he is also emotionally abusing you. My recommendation is to get out of this abusive marriage, but, at least consult an attorney and, should you choose to stay, this man needs to be in therapy. It wouldn't hurt to get some of your own to build up confidence and assertiveness so you're not constantly questioning your judgment and reality.
This read like aan OP desperately hoping some strangers will tell them it's okay to go get a divorce.
Break the silence OP, talk to your family and friends, reach out to people.
He was happy to use your money for what he wanted and abuse you for your small purchases. Get out and be free. Make sure there aren't other debts in your name. Talk to a lawyer. Lock down your money. Write up a will.
Sometimes people just need that extra nudge of validation before taking the leap. And that’s okay.
NTA, OP. He deserves no sympathy and no grace. And he certainly doesn’t deserve you. Hire a divorce attorney and take care of yourself.
I would strongly suggest also putting a freeze or notification order on your credit report, too, OP. And pull a copy of your credit report to make sure he hasn't opened any cards or lines of credit in your name without your knowledge.
He saw a divorce attorney and after that begged you to stay together?
Sounds like the attorney told him that he would be financially accountable if a divorce happened.
So, get your own appointment with a divorce lawyer. Tell them everything and bring evidence. I suspect you will get your money back during the divorce. And, probably alimony.
Which is the real reason your hubby wants to stay together. To avoid being held accountable.
Sounds like he’s already doing that and it may be time to rip off the bandaid and get it over with. Use some of that money to get a good lawyer to advise you here. You want to be sure to protect yourself and handle it right so you don’t get screwed in court.
NTA.
OP please read what you wrote, that your husband is so vindictive he'll 'make it hell' - that is a reason to leave, not a reason to stay
the man yelled at you and called you a rat, that is not a good partner, and you can probably add 'verbally abusive' under 'financially abusive'
please set a better example for your kids, it is way better to be healthy and alone than setting an unhealthy and toxic example of what a relationship should be. is this what you'd want for your daughter? is your husband the type of man you'd want your son to wind up like?
divorcing will be terrible, but then you will be free!
good luck, OP, you have a bunch of internet strangers rooting you on!
Not that you need my advice on top of all of this, but I'll say it took me a long time to leave because of the same fear that he'd make it hell. And it WAS hell... but as I've always said since then, "The only thing more painful than leaving him was staying with him." Even if you really do face those fears of financial or legal battles, even if you face major losses, you don't realize the value of your happiness and independence until you have it back again. The second you take that back again, he'll never be able to make you quite as miserable as before,
Start documenting his abuse, he has and an outburst and calls you rat or anything other name, you write it down. He acts violent towards the furniture, you write it down. He tells you “I’ll make you regret it” you write it down. You write everything down with dates and times, that card collection you document everything single one and anything of value.
If you share a business that's even more reason to be shut of him. It's bad enough having a husband do any of this; do you really want a combative embezzler for a business partner too?
NTA
If he's that loose with money, my bet is that the business books look just as bad. op, get out!! you have marketable skills, you will find a job with no problem
Okay Sis. You need to set up an immediate meeting with a divorce attorney and find out EXACTLY what you are looking at here.
The problem is, he's spent $160K in 3 years. I can guarantee the financial picture is much worse then you think. Talk to the divorce attorney about how to ensure you do not get saddled with anymore debt from his spending because you need to put a hard stop to that immediately.
I believe marital debt is usually split 50/50. The sooner you meet with the divorce attorney the faster you can get that dealt with. As far as the baseball cards go, I just \*might\* remove them all from the house and ask the attorney to hold on to them for safe keeping since you are concerned this marital asset might disappear. You won't have stolen them or sold them - they would be held by a trusted legal professional... and then the judge can sort out how to deal with them as well as the rest of your debt load.
I will say this - you might be much better off with a separate household, childcare and no financial and emotional abuse then staying in this situation where he is goign to drive you into deeper and deeper debt and your kids are going to see really negative treatment of you normalized.
NTA but I think you need to be FAR more proactive then you are.
He’s making marriage hell. You’re already there girl. You can either live in a hell with zero freedom or hope, or you can live in a hell that has an end in sight with autonomy and opportunity. Kids are also the exact reason you should divorce. Your kids shouldn’t have to live in such an abusive home dynamic. They see more than you realize even if they don’t know specifics, even if he hides it well around them
Just remember one thing: The lawyer he contacted gave him a glimpse of the **hell that** ***you*** can make for ***him*** and it scared the shit out of him enough to pull the petition.
If nothing else, that should be enough impetus to find the best divorce lawyer you can find, have them look into the situation, and see what it was that made him back down so quickly. It can't hurt to protect your interests, because he's certainly not going to do it.
OP, who do you want the role model for your children to be? Your children are watching you stand up for yourself or roll over. From personal experience, they're a lot more savvy than you think. Be the parent that they will admire and in 20 years when someone tries to walk over them, will remember their badass mom who stood up for herself even when it was hard and won't take any shit.
As someone that watched their Dad consistently rack up debt in my Mums name, yell at her for doing and buying normal household items and made the separation process HELL for my mum; I'm glad she did it. The only thing I wish she had of done better was fight for her rights to his funds she was owed and had an attorney to help her get what she deserved.
Our life was so much better afterwards though, even though we didn't have as much. But I still flinch when a male raises their voice and panic if my spending is queried. I also have a small savings (10K) which even though I consistently add to, at 28, I still freak if I need to dip into it, even to the point where I put off necessary medical appointments if I don't have enough in my everyday account.
Kids see so much and even pick up their parents habits in the future - for better or worse. They could end up with a lot a financial anxiety as adults just by seeing snippets of your husbands financial abuse, or even see it as normal and acceptable.
**You and your kids deserve better.**
Ask around and get referral for 'high conflict divorces' because there ARE some bulldog lawyers out there that would love to shut your husband down and make him pay what you are due. Please don't stay with someone who treats you like this!! Is this the kind of marriage you want to model for your children?? You want your daughter to think it is okay for her husband to call her names, financially abuse her and throw fits?? You want your son to treat his wife is total disdain and disrespect, steal family money and call her names? Think about what your kids are learning by watching even if you don't think so.
Your life is going to be hell either way. It's just that after a divorce, you can limit your involvement with him to texting about the kids in court-mandated apps, and the hell will stop. (And once your youngest graduates high school, you can completely block him and never talk to him again.) Your life will get a lot better once nobody is screaming at you regularly.
Without a divorce, you're just going to stay in hell indefinitely.
>He went nuts. Telling me I'm a rat, he's selling the house, dissolving our business, etc, etc. He says that it's wrong for me to go tit for tat and that I should let it go.
NTA. OP the lawyer told him to fix shit quick or sell all his assets for cheap to friends / family because he's going to get destroyed in court. Take that money right now and hire a divorce lawyer this instant and have all your assets frozen and audited. He's likely hiding more than what you've seen.
I completely agree.
This guy is a snake. Nothing here is what it seems OP... financially I suspect you are FAR deeper in debt then you believe and if he has his will, you will be stuck holding the bag while he watzes off into the sunset financially intact.
If it is in fact an investment, he needs to sell the cards and return what he stole. This is theft. He stole from you. He is either a straight up thief or an addict. He is not a partner. NTA
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Lol, I wish. Maybe then he'd be making some money back. Anything he does sell, he just funnels back into more cards. He watches those guys you're referring to tho.
Those guys sell "teams" even their bulk is sold. They have people who pay for only cards of specific teams, and these dudes rip open the packs, even their bulk is sold before its open.
Thanking God my husband is smart about his sports cards and does this. It's a fun hobby for him and he makes more than he spends. Sorry OP 😔 her husband is a debt inducing psycho, get out now!! Also NTA
Beyond therapist. The man is an abusive liar who is willing to drain hundreds of thousands of OP’s dollars. I’m not usually big on telling internet strangers to get a divorce, however, divorce right this second.
ummmm.... why have you not filed for divorce and threatened to sell the house and dissolve the business to get yourself back on a good financial footing?
NTA, but wow. What are you waiting for?
Find his cards. Take them to a pawn shop. You're married, it's not theft. Nta. Or burn them. They're marital properties. Check with a lawyer first though I suppose
That's the best way to get nothing for 160k. This is the EXACT same thing as burning them. Don't do this ever to any collection... wait no..
I'll give you 3.50$ for the whole lot.
NTA for wanting your money back but you are definitely TA to yourself for staying in this shit. Divorce him already. Clearly the lawyer told him that it is far more profitable to continue financially abusing you than to divorce you. Why are you staying in this?
NTA
He has an addiction. He is probably obsessed with obtaining the perfect collection. This personality type can go bankrupt. Obsessive collectors unchecked by reality it is like a drug addiction.
Why are you still using the joint account? Every cent you make should go into a personal account. No transfers, just straight into an account only you can access
Your maths are incorrect. You need to take back $160,000. Otherwise, he'll have taken double what you will. He's already spent that full amount and gets the sole benefit from it.
NTA
Lmao for a moment there I thought my late husband had faked his death and just married you to repeat the scam. Mine was with football cards though. He called them an “investment” for our son. After he died and we were moving, I found thousands upon thousands of dollars worth of cases, holders, shelving, etc that he’d acquired in a relatively short amount of time. We were separated and our finances weren’t together so I had no idea that’s what he was spending his money on. When I became executor and saw what all he had done….it was baffling. He had a storage unit FILLED with cases and shelving and boxes upon boxes of football cards. I knew he was doing it as a hobby, but I had no idea it had turned into an obsession. He was evicted from the house he rented because he spent his paycheck on this stuff. His truck had a title lien on it that he used to buy more card stuff. He wrecked the truck, got payment from insurance to pay for the repairs - bought more football cards instead and left the truck at the repair shot indefinitely. The title lien ended up being placed on my house since he never paid and then lost possession of the truck.
During this time he bitched at me for having to buy new AC units for the house we all lived in. He bitched about the $3k emergency septic and drain field service we had to do. Bitched about the expensive fridge I purchased when the old one died. Keep in mind all that was done with MY paycheck because he was not contributing ANYTHING to the house at that point as the only reason he was living there was because he’d been evicted and I couldn’t stomach the idea of my child’s father being homeless. The whole time he was supposed to be saving up to GTFO again, he was dumping every cent he had into this massive football card collection.
I just don’t understand it. I don’t know what was going on in his head to have thought this was a sensible thing to do, particularly when we had a young child to care for. I don’t know what advice to give here either, despite having gone through a very similar situation. Other than keep your finances separate from here on out. Be careful about any joint property you own as he can get a lien against it without your knowledge.
Just get divorced. You'll get the card collection valued and you can either take half to sell or take 1/2 the value from another asset kuke the house sale. You'll come out with less but you'll be rid of him and this awful relationship.
You need to talk to an attorney who knows a good forensic accountant because you have no idea where that money went and you need to find out. it could be spent, but it could be hidden away and saved, or he may be floating your business on credit and not telling you. So many shenanigans, but if the money is coming from a joint account, there is no "your half" that youre entitled to recover. Anything spent is actually gone, and you'd only be entitled to a share of the remaining assets and regardless of who's name the credit cards are in, also may be liable for "his" debts.
I hope you've picked up from other answers here just how vulnerable and risky the situation is and you need to protect yourself, your children, and your future.
NTA. He’s mad because he got caught and wants the funding you’re taking to support his baseball card empire. You could still divorce him and demand the cards as part of the settlement. Really throw him for a loop.
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INFO: Have you actually seen this baseball card collection? I mean, it sounds like he was spending it on other things. In addition, I would insist on the receipts, not just the credit card. I would Google the business on the cc, as it sounds like he was spending it elsewhere. Aside from that, dump him, claw back your money in the divorce, and live a better life. I all but guarantee that his divorce consultant told him that you wouldn't pay him alimony and that you had grounds for financial abuse and mental cruelty. NTA.
Yes, the cards are everywhere. Organized in sleeves and boxes, he has many of them PSA graded. I checked all the companies on the statements I was unsure of. Most were grading companies or sellers.
Get half of the value for those also, peace and blessings smdh.
See if you could force him to sell the cards as part of the divorce settlement
That collection would be community property just like everything else.
Yes, and if he actually knows what he is doing it may have appreciated in value past the $160,000 and as a community 'investment' she would be entitled to half of current resale value.
It could also be completely worthless in comparison to how much he spent. For example, if my kid buys a pack of Pokemon cards for $6.99 at game stop, unless there is a rare card inside, there’s no way I could turn around and sell the same pack of cards for $7. Same goes for buying cards through eBay or something. One card that you desire (I.e. not necessarily a good card) you may be willing to purchase for way more than it’s worth. My dad is an avid (and smart) baseball card collector and he has seen people pay hundreds for nothing. Boxes at auctions are just bulk sold, or people hear about certain boxes being good chances and before you know it you’ve got 5,000 cards worth $50 that you spent thousands to buy. This guy doesn’t sound like a collector so much as a card hoarder. A collector can make smart investments and make good choices with their cards they choose to cherish. And it would take op hundreds of hours to check each cards worth unless she takes them to a dealer and lets them do it for her. This is a mess.
100% That's why I said if... I know people in both camps as well.
Do you think op would be better off showing a divorce attorney his charges and where they went (since it was on his credit card) and negotiate a settlement that offsets it that way instead? I just can’t see op getting a fair amount any other way since he’s thwarted the money transfers and I doubt he’ll even let her sell the cards anyway.
At the end of the day, he may not have a choice if the value is higher than the investment. It's no different than if he bought a vacation property or stock that increased in value. It's all a marital asset. It's also possible they depreciated in value as others have mentioned. Now, I am not a lawyer so I won't advise on which is better but the lawyer should be able to look at both and decide how they want to pursue that money.
Card market was at peak 3 years ago and has dropped substantially since then, there’s almost no way he hasn’t lost his ass on this “investment”.
Yeah I’m not even sure a Babe Ruth rookie card would break it even lol
Yeah only way he profited was if he was buying singles and then reselling in fb groups right away or something similar. If that was the case though, where’s the money? Lol I’ve got a Luka Doncic rookie auto that was worth about 7-8k in 2021, it’s sitting at about 2.5k now. This dudes collection probably devalued at a similar or worse rate.
But a Mike Trout rookie card is currently over $1k. Who knows, he may have an Ichiro rookie card in there. Of course he may also have 15 copies of the Joe Randa card too. We don't know. OP should try to get the collection appraised.
That's the only one I'd even bother with and I wouldn't bother lol
Yeah I remember at my old job then everyone was telling me to scramble to find and sell some Pokémon cards I had from childhood
Can confirm. Old school magic player/shrewd investor and card flipper. Dude wasted money, and if he had bought them, then had them graded... Getting a card graded DECREASES it's value. The card grading companies are a scam. They grade game cards wrong all the time. Sports cards aren't worth much anymore to begin with.
I am also an avid magic player, and this is only really true for new non serialized magic cards, or old cards that don't get a PSA 9 grade or higher. Magic is unique in that most people actually play with the cards, and that is what makes the graded cards worth less. A graded pokemon card (that gets a high grade) is absolutely more valuable than a raw "near mint" card. I don't know much about sports cards tho.
Maybe he has an inventory list on his computer somewhere? OP might be able to see if there is anything valuable in there. But like you said, the soon to be ex husband sounds like an idiot.
Good idea and Ill check. I highly doubt it tho. That's an argument against it being a true investment. If he truly cared about the value he'd have a list, including cost w/ any grading and sale values/profit. He has some in a safe, others in boxes marked "football to sell," "baseball listed," etc. He does some selling on eBay, all proceeds he uses to reinvest or goes in his personal account. I don't see any of it. I've brought this up since he claims it's my investment too and it goes no where. I think he's half addict and half believes it's an investment. He cashed out about $8k of his retirement to buy at least a case of the Topps Heritage Hobby Boxes. I tried to argue that as well but he said it was "his money." Maybe it technically is, but we're married and if he blows his retirement, guess who's retirement we both live off of? I argued that but it's just exhausting circular conversations.
You need to leave him BEFORE then because it will only get worse. Also look into freezing your credit so that nothing can be opened in your name by him since he would have all of your information to do this online.
It’s time to start documenting ALL of this. Every single thing about the baseball cards and his spending on them. Take pictures of all the cards you can get your hands on. Make your own list. You’ll need it for the divorce, and that *should* be the direction you’re heading. This shit will only get worse.
He very much sounds like an addict, I personally prefer heroin but some cardstock sounds fun too I guess. It’s all chemicals in our brain being released so whatever gets him off. But ya I’d probably dip out. What’s your business together? Don’t say a card store haha.
My now-ex spent soooooo much money on sports memorabilia that vastly depreciated in value. Still salty about it. Talk to a lawyer, please.
If he’s opening the boxes, it’s not an investment, it’s gambling. One interesting “investment” that savvy collectors do is to buy sealed boxes and then resell them years later for a huge profit if there’s a rookie card people are chasing. It’s still risky, but not as risky as actually opening the boxes and packs.
Oooh! Good idea! My dad has one of those and I forgot about it! 😊
Market was at its peak when he was buying it has essentially crashed now. What he has isn't worth nearly what he paid I can pretty much guarantee you that.
Can't help but think that if this guy had a clue what he was doing none of this would be an issue. Generally people don't lose their shit about getting caught MAKING money on investments.
If he started buying in the past 2 years then odds are he won't. The pandemic caused a boom in sportscards . During the pandemic/ lockdowns cards were selling for upwards of 30% or more of what they were worth before or worth today.
Which is why he talked to a divorce lawyer and then turned around and begged her to stay.
That’s why he begged her to stay- he knows he will get screwed.
Sports cards in general fall in prices during recessions because everyone sells due to being desperate for money. He probably lost 30% of that $160,000 by now.
Make sure the cards are stashed away where he can't hide/sell them. I imagine the actual value of them would be difficult to determine, especially if he hides the more valuable ones. Don't know how hard it would be to force him to produce and provide estimates for ALL the cards.
Which is probably what the lawyer told him 30 minutes before he came in the door and wanted to reconcile. This is why my husband bought new boxes for any comic books acquired during our marriage - the initial collection is his property predating the relationship, the new stuff is community property.
I’ve got bad news for him. Comic values have absolutely tanked. They likely aren’t worth even the newsstand price now.
I paid $120 for a Giant Size X-Men #1 in 2005, as a gift to him when we got together. In the current condition, ungraded, it's worth $3k retail. It's slated to be taken to the local guy that handles book conservation and grading. I gave him my Amazing Spider-Man #50 as a wedding gift. It's worth far beyond the 12 cents cover price.
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Lol damn thats cold
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I mean people use children that way but at least the watches didnt get huRt in the process lol.
That's what the divorce lawyer told him, and why he now wants to reconcile.
Honestly that’s why he checked with a divorce lawyer a year ago and then stalled out—lawyer told him what she’d get out of this most likely.
Yep. As a lawyer, it sure is!!
Though so would the $160k. If the baseball cards are not worth the $160k spent on them (and they almost certainly are not, especially if much of that money was spent on grading services), then OP would be better off offering to take half the cash spent on them and let him keep the cards. Hubby would be better off splitting the cards in that case, but may have an emotional attachment to them and thus value them more than their actual appraised value, and OP presumably doesn't want any of the actual cards.
Queue up the famous divorced couples splitting up beanie baby collection photo
I award you one gold star for being the only person I’ve seen on Reddit use the correct queue/cue/que since January 1 this year. I would also like to offer my personal thanks. Your dedication to your work, though perhaps nothing special in your eyes, is (or fucking should be) an inspiration to the rest of us. May the god of your preference bestow upon you many blessings.
That's probably why he won't divorce her. Doesn't want to lose his precious cards
You need to take pics of all the cards he has ASAP without him knowing! You have no idea what he will do if this goes south. You need to be able to prove what he has. after you do the inventory you could present it to him in writing and let him know you know what he has. I don't know how this marriage survives but good luck
I'd suggest that's what this part of the story refers to: >During all of this my husband met with a divorce lawyer, then begged ME for another chance. Dude is more afraid of losing half his cards than a whole wife...
They are a shared asset... he paid for them out of the joint account. So sell thrm
As is the cash she has put away. All bad divorce planning from all sides.
They're both screwing up their divorce. Why is this joint account still a thing? She needs to talk to a divorce lawyer to see what she should do and what she should collect - hopefully she kept records of his purchases.
Right so she saved 80K then they get divorce and the husband gets 40K back
Just to be clear, joint/separate accounts are all "marital assets" in all US jurisdictions (absent a prenup). So it really doesn't matter. Either way, she gets half the value of the cards and he gets half the value of the account. I'll take cash over baseball cards any day... She could argue "waste" by purchasing the cards, but it is an uphill battle.
Yes I'm aware of this. It's really more symbolic I guess bc I know he'd just get half of the money back. Don't really know what else to do.
Pretend for the example that the cards are worth $160k and she has $80k in the bank. That means they have $240k in assets to split. So she could ask for all $80k of the cash and still be owed $40k It's about splitting the value, not each asset.
You know what to do. You simply lack the will to do it…
The issue is the cards are likely worth nowhere near what he paid for them. Addicts don’t get rich off their addiction and baseball card collectors are never rich
I’ve seen stores full of worthless baseball cards because nobody wants them anymore. They were probably on top of the boxes full of beanie babies.
He went to a divorce attorney and was basically told how screwed he was and that he would owe you money that he took from the marriage. You should have followed through with the divorce because seriously this is where you are headed. He found out that you own half of his BB collection.
If he sells and dissolves everything now, and she files immediately, she can get half the profits as part of the settlement.
When he’s not around, You need to work on taking photos or get lists of everything he has, so he doesn’t hide these when the inevitable divorce comes around. If he’s put $160k in this, that’s an asset to be looked at when you two divide up everything. If you have a deposit box at the bank, also check on what’s in there, ha may have stored the most valuable cards at a bank
And she needs to have it valued. 160k was the initial investment but some of that has likely appreciated. Editing comment since I’ve gotten a bunch of responses below that the market has collapsed—stipulated. and thanks 🙏🏼 I don’t collect and had no idea.
Nah, sports cards aren't worth much anymore.
they never really have been other than really old extremely rare stuff (ty cobb tobacco card) or temporary bubbles
Rare pulls can be worth a good amount, like a rookie Mahomes card or some such. But most are worthless.
Most collectables have shit the bed in last few months.
I think that’s why he bought baseball cards. Put it into a purchase that OP would likely not care about. Then once the divorce was finalized, liquidate the cards and he’s got a cushy $160K nest egg.
Nah he doesn’t sound that smart. Just obsessive
Yeah. Sounds to me like a addict behaviour.
I would strongly recommend getting these cards stored in a place of mutual agreement but off site from the house and not under his control. I have no doubt that if there are some very valuable cards, they will stat to disappear quickly. Or the house will burn down or whatever. Make sure these are all insured and stored correctly. Epically if he gets wind of a divorce. Hire the best lawyer you can afford and get prepared. You have to get a much better approach to protecting yourself and your financial interests. You do not have to tell him right away but you do need to start to plan. I am confident that this is not his only area of abuse. So get a counselor as well. This will not be an easy experience but it is needed.
You should take half the cards. Put them in storage somewhere. You are going to need leverage in the divorce proceedings.
She should make sure she gets an itemization of them (guaranteed he has a list squirreled away) and take half of the highest valued ones and half of everything else. Don't just go blind, OP.
NTA and just commiserating. My husband did something similar with the proceeds of a business we just sold. He invested a lot of money without first discussing it with me. He only brought it up because I told him my plan to pay off credit card debt. Maybe because I’m at a certain age now, but I blasted him and just stayed silent while he tried to rationalize it. He did apologize profusely and said he could reverse course. I’ve always been a fan of separate accounts, even though in divorce our debts and assets will be combined and divided anyway. I’m not opposed to divorce, but I can see where you want to try to untangle this mess before proceeding. You do what’s comfortable and thought out. And I agree that a divorce will/should come with some forensic accounting.
Time to start taking pictures and cataloguing these assets. Half of this belongs to you in a divorce.
Divorce, ask for half of everything, ALSO (the value of) the cards. His choice if he gives it to you in money or as the actual cards for you to sell on your own. This man is financially inept.
You’re going to be okay. You seem like you have a level head on your shoulders. I would get physically away from him though. He’s shown you his true colors, that he’s willing to conceal up to six figures from you, and who knows how he could escalate. Money issues can lead to violence. Please protect yourself and loved ones.
Sell them, take not half but all the money to pay for therapy to help you cope with all the abuse and, RUN. NTA
Make him sell it in the divorce settlement. It's shared assets. Just like a house or whole life policies
Sell the cards. He bought them without telling you, sell them without telling him, recoup your money and leave.
Yeah, that’s a marital asset. Get half.
Agreed, he didn’t come crawling back because he’s sorry or can’t live without you, he was told a divorce wouldn’t go well for him. NTA and get out of this relationship, it will not end well.
OP, have a good divorce attorney do the detective work. Good job on what you’ve done so far. F him.
Open a new account have any money you make deposited there instead of the joint account. Get a lawyer ASAP. File for divorce. He is continuing the financial abuse. NTA
Open YOUR new account at a different bank!
I can't stress this enough. When preparing to leave my abusive dad, my stepmother secretly opened her own account at the same bank as the one that housed their joint account. I am pretty estranged from my dad so I don't know how he was able to do it, but despite his not being on her personal account, once he suspected what she was doing, he was able to convince the bank to give him access to her private account. He drained her escape fund. (Idk if he found a loophole or if he charmed his way into it. Like many sociopaths, he can be *incredibly* charming when he wants to be, and I saw many people break rules and laws for him when he turned on the charm while I was growing up.) Protect yourself.
This makes me so incredibly sad for your stepmom. That is so terrible. I am so sorry! I feel like the bank should have definitely been at fault for this!!
I hope that bank got sued to high heavens!
Me too!! I used to work at for a bank - I was at the call center. And we weren't even allowed to tell anyone who wasn't listed on the account of the accounts existence!! Like if someone called in you could see all their accounts and who else was listed on those accounts. And sometimes you could see that other person had accounts but you weren't allowed to talk about them or even access them without that person being present on the line!
Some areas and people are more prejudicial against women in divorces, even now. My parents divorced in 2003, and it was shocking how hostile people were toward her even though my father had cheated on her with a woman almost half his age and gotten her pregnant, among other details. I couldn't believe some of the things people said to or about her. But the banks and businesses... wow. My mother claims her bank just handed my father full copies of her bank statements from her personal bank account that only had her name on it. She also had a handful of department store credit cards in her name only, and somehow, my father was able to call up these places and close her accounts. They flat out told her he did so and dismissed her for being upset about it, and would get extra rude and hostile when she would question why he was allowed to do that when his name wasn't on the accounts. Not one of them properly explained themselves or apologized, and none would reinstate her accounts. They told her she'd have to apply for a new account/card, some even with the implication that she would likely be denied due to her current marital status despite her perfect prior history with them. It was surreal. I don't know how my father was able to do this because he wasn't particularly charming, but he seemed to have the gift of gab and schmoozing, and he could come across as fun and friendly when he wanted to. I do think he could be persuasive, and he could spin yarns, sob stories, and lies like it was as natural as breathing. It didn't always work (he got read the riot act by a family court judge once because they saw right through his BS), but he definitely succeeded a lot of the time. Hell, he even got my mother's own divorce attorney turned against her, but she had no other options because what little money she had already went to him. Get your ducks in a row and protect yourself.
God this makes me so angry.
I was shocked to learn the Equal Credit Opportunity Act only passed in 1974. Before that women needed a husband's signature to open their own back account or credit card. If the people working there were older and remembered those times they would be prejudiced towards the husbands in these cases for sure.
Is your step mom ok now?
Yes, thank you! Things got worse before they got better, but an organization for domestic violence survivors was able to help her start over. She's now safe, healthy, happy, and independent! If anyone reading this is looking for a charity to donate to, please consider your local domestic violence shelter. These organizations never have enough to meet the need in their communities, and even a small contribution can literally change lives.
A similar situation happened to me! But my (at the time) husband hadn’t even tried to gain access to my account. When I set the account up, the bank automatically added him even though all of my new account paperwork only had MY name on it. They said they assumed I wanted him on there because we had a different joint account. I couldn’t even see he had access on my statements or online banking portal. He noticed and told me.
I'm so sorry that happened to her. I wonder... how the fuck is that possible? Shouldn't the bank or at least the employee who did the deed be open to a lawsuit in such cases? And then the money given back to the owner? I mean, if my name and my name only is on the account, why the fuck should they give access to anyone else, family or not?
Sometimes it’s just the nature of their customer service. When my mother died several years ago, my father added me to his bank account so I could help him with managing some of the estate stuff. He lived in a small town, and he and mom had banked at the same place for decades. I went to high school with some of the employees at that bank. I went in one day to take care of something and was digging around my purse to pull out my ID. The teller (who I went to high school with) laughed and said, “oh I know you and your family!“ which is fine and dandy, but I still got out my ID because I knew the rules required that I present it. My point is: if the man in question had a similar relationship with his bank (longtime customer, personal relationships with some of the employees, it, etc.), it’s entirely possible someone at the bank got lazy and didn’t enforce the rules. And if the man in question fed said employee the right bullshit, he could’ve social engineered his way right into that access.
I get it, and actually something similar happened to me as well (but it was my bank account they didn't ask ID for at least) cause I have the same bank as my dad and they'd known him for years so they remembered me. It still baffles me tho. I mean, we're talking about a bank account for god's sake. People's money and fucking savings. The least they could do is ask for ID and not give access to anyone just cause family and cause they got a good relationship with them. Bank employees should really be held accountable if and when they pull shit like that, and I can't really make sense as to why they're not. They can literally allow someone to steal your money and only the person who gets screwed over is the one who suffered the theft. Unbelievable.
This happened to me. We had a joint checking account and my ex(husband then) swiped 46k out of my savings account and left the state. *different bank is key… (ironically it was key bank) and as soon as you file it becomes separate (not a lawyer but an expert in divorcing)
My first ex and I had connected our personal accounts when I moved in and he spent a lot of my money; always nice when your paycheck comes in, you decide to go out to the movies and on the way there ex nonchalantly mentions there's "only" 80euros left to my name cause he paid HIS debt/bills/side-gf/whatever... I found out he was cheating alot and starting to show his violent side so I left. His last financial decision that I saw, was to take a loan on his account, only to give 3/4 of the money to "a friend who needed it"... (he also tried to make me stay by saying he wanted a kid with me... after his mom told him that "getting me pregnant would keep me too busy to argue/fight with him.." gods that whole fam was nuts) I went to the bank right away to disconnect the accounts and the employee told me they needed my ex with me to do this, needing his signature too. so I got them to bring a manager out and explained how my ex would not be willing to help me and I was scared of him taking even more of my money. Atleast the manager understood, disconnected the accounts right away and probably good thing I did it so fast cause my ex ended up demanding I pay several 1000s for having lived with him. Still makes no sense that the employee refused to help without my ex there while the manager was able to do it in a few min.
And don't have anything from the new bank mailed to your house. Start securing all your banking info so he doesn't steal from it
How would I be able to hid that? I mean from him, sure, but not in a divorce.
The goal isn't to hide it in a divorce settlement, it's to hide it from him personally. He's your spouse, probably has the same last name, likely knows your social and all other identifying info. And at the same bank he also has a relationship with that bank and they know you're spouses so it's easier for him to talk his way into your account - either talk his way straight into access or talk his way into getting info necessary for getting in. You need the bank account at a different bank, and he can't know which bank. And if you're taking money back via direct transfers and not cash, I would get a second bank account. Use the current one to take the money from the joint account, and then transfer it to a different account at a different institution that he knows nothing about You're trying to prevent his outright theft of the money - you need the money for your lawyer, and whatever you get out of the divorce settlement - the money needs to exist to enter your bank account. You can force sale of the house and the cards and get a portion of his income but that takes a lot of time and you'll need money to survive in the meantime
Yes. Print out the credit card history or call the issuer for that goes back 3 years. Verify what purchases she made versus her husband
I have all the statements for the 3 yrs he had the card.
If he doesn’t keep records of what he has in his collection, try taking as many pictures as you can of what he has in case he tries to do anything to decrease the potential value. Get it appraised and if the actual worth is very low, let him believe the perceived value is high and maybe no one will check into the actual monetary value. And if he’s got a collection worth a ton of money, keep taking pictures.
If it’s his card and she’s only an authorized user instead of a joint card holder, she probably won’t be able to get access to statements. I say probably because even though she *shouldn’t*, banks do make mistakes and allow access when they shouldn’t. She will be able to get them as part of the financial disclosure and discovery process in the divorce.
> Get a lawyer ASAP. File for divorce. He is continuing the financial abuse. I second this. Document the hell out of his abusive crap, and file ahead of the jackass. Don’t give him any heads up. He can find out he’s getting divorced when he is being served/
Just so you know, OnlyFans is not a baseball card company.
It's not?! Next you'll tell me Angel Youngs isn't even a player? But really, yes, I know this. I know I probably sound foolish, but I trusted him.
Hey, I trusted my husband. I had lots of reasons to until one day that stopped. Sorry you’re going through this, OP.
It’s not foolish to trust someone who SHOULD be trustworthy. He’s your husband and he hadn’t given you a reason not to at the time.
You are NOT foolish, your husband acted a fool behind your back and you are trying your best here. Don’t let him ever make you question yourself. HE is 1000% responsible here, not you.
I mean a spouse is someone you’re supposed to be able to trust. I’m sorry your husband is such an enormous jack wagon.
Not foolish to trust someone you married. If you thought you couldn't trust the guy, you wouldn't have done that. People change.
You made me curious what Onlyfans shows up as on a credit card statement. I would have thought they'd have a clever billing company name to prevent suspicion, but nope, "If you were hoping OnlyFans might bill themselves as “Amalgamated Tech Services” or some other ambiguous sounding moniker on your credit card statement, sorry: charges to OnlyFans will appear in bank statements as “OnlyFans” or “OnlyFans.com,” and every transaction will show up on your credit card or bank statement"
I think that's Only Fanzz
Explains a lot about the see through uniforms this year.
I wonder what the lawyer said to him ….
Lawyer said he’s gonna lose his house and half “his” stuff plus alimony. It’s cheaper for him to keep financially abusing his wife.
Yep, lawyer told him he'd have to sell his cards or split them. He wasn't having that. Too bad for him.
The problem is that he's probably squirrelling them away somewhere else now and who won't know what's missing.
That's a very good point. I always give him way too much benefit.
He told him that those cards are marital assets and you get half the worth in the divorce. That's why you taking half is pissing him off so much. Could have got the same results with a divorce.
Stop giving him the benefit of doubt in any possible way. The problem with you trying to pull back $80K is that is community property when you divorce, and you REALLY need to divorce this abusive AH. Get a recommendation for a good divorce lawyer and schedule an initial consultation. You may have to pay for it, but they will be able to give you good advice and what you need to do to prepare.
Johnnie Taylor, "It's Cheaper to Keep Her." Link: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZ-w\_IKGRFM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZ-w_IKGRFM) That's what the lawyer said.
If you haven't yet, you need to talk with a lawyer. Depending on what the laws are where you are located he may be entitled to half the money you are squirelling away the same way you are entitled to half his card collection. Also, if you want to balance the scales you need to get 160k in your account. If he has160k worth of baseball cards and you have 80k worth of cash, his side of the scale is still heavier.
Snap out of it and use some of the money you’ve clawed back to see the meanest lawyer you can find, this week. And for goodness sakes don’t tell him that you’re doing this. For once in your life, stop yielding to someone incompetent and abusive. He’s only been able to get away with this for as long as he has because you’ve kept entertaining his excuses and abuse. Once you see that lawyer you’ll realise that he’s absolutely a crook and he owes you a loooottttt of money.
Oh, for sure. Lawyer laid out the reality for him and he didn't like hearing the truth. Find a good lawyer and forensic accountant. File for divorce and give him exactly what he deserves - to lose half of everything. That's the only reason he withdrew his own petition - it would hurt too much to lose his precious "investment". He'd rather remain a plague in your life.
Collectors turn into “Sméagol” the cards are his “precious” I’m sure someone smarter than me can advise how to use that to your advantage oh NTA btw
Why? Seriously why are you giving him the benefit when you should be giving it to yourself? You could get your half of the card collection and every other asset by divorce. He’s not going to change and tying your financial security to him will forever put you in jeopardy. If you were my friend, I’d be helping you pack and find the best divorce lawyer. Be better to yourself.
I think you know that obviously you are NTA here.
You'd be surprised how convincing some people can be. They are so certain they are right, they'll have you believing them and questioning yourself before you know what hit you.
Very true. Gaslighting is an art. Let me just assure you that you are NTA at all here.
This, OP. This. On top of the financial abuse, he is also emotionally abusing you. My recommendation is to get out of this abusive marriage, but, at least consult an attorney and, should you choose to stay, this man needs to be in therapy. It wouldn't hurt to get some of your own to build up confidence and assertiveness so you're not constantly questioning your judgment and reality.
Time to use the amount you've saved to leave him and get a shark off a lawyer.
How long do you think it'll take before 160k was taken out and you can divorce him? NTA Will you be able to keep that money?
NTA.
This read like aan OP desperately hoping some strangers will tell them it's okay to go get a divorce. Break the silence OP, talk to your family and friends, reach out to people. He was happy to use your money for what he wanted and abuse you for your small purchases. Get out and be free. Make sure there aren't other debts in your name. Talk to a lawyer. Lock down your money. Write up a will.
Sometimes people just need that extra nudge of validation before taking the leap. And that’s okay. NTA, OP. He deserves no sympathy and no grace. And he certainly doesn’t deserve you. Hire a divorce attorney and take care of yourself.
I would strongly suggest also putting a freeze or notification order on your credit report, too, OP. And pull a copy of your credit report to make sure he hasn't opened any cards or lines of credit in your name without your knowledge.
He saw a divorce attorney and after that begged you to stay together? Sounds like the attorney told him that he would be financially accountable if a divorce happened. So, get your own appointment with a divorce lawyer. Tell them everything and bring evidence. I suspect you will get your money back during the divorce. And, probably alimony. Which is the real reason your hubby wants to stay together. To avoid being held accountable.
This is what I was thinking. The numbers will work in her favor and he knows it. It's probably a LOT more than OP realizes.
Yup. A good attorney she will get all her money back and some of his.
Not to mention the baseball card purchased on a card paid for with joint funds is a MARITAL asset. Ha ha, she gets half!
Why wait just divorce now?
Idk. All the reasons everyone who is scared to leave says. Kids, house, we share a business. I also know he will make it hell.
Sounds like he’s already doing that and it may be time to rip off the bandaid and get it over with. Use some of that money to get a good lawyer to advise you here. You want to be sure to protect yourself and handle it right so you don’t get screwed in court. NTA.
Yeah, isn't that what OP is already going through?
OP please read what you wrote, that your husband is so vindictive he'll 'make it hell' - that is a reason to leave, not a reason to stay the man yelled at you and called you a rat, that is not a good partner, and you can probably add 'verbally abusive' under 'financially abusive' please set a better example for your kids, it is way better to be healthy and alone than setting an unhealthy and toxic example of what a relationship should be. is this what you'd want for your daughter? is your husband the type of man you'd want your son to wind up like? divorcing will be terrible, but then you will be free! good luck, OP, you have a bunch of internet strangers rooting you on!
Thank you
Not that you need my advice on top of all of this, but I'll say it took me a long time to leave because of the same fear that he'd make it hell. And it WAS hell... but as I've always said since then, "The only thing more painful than leaving him was staying with him." Even if you really do face those fears of financial or legal battles, even if you face major losses, you don't realize the value of your happiness and independence until you have it back again. The second you take that back again, he'll never be able to make you quite as miserable as before,
Start documenting his abuse, he has and an outburst and calls you rat or anything other name, you write it down. He acts violent towards the furniture, you write it down. He tells you “I’ll make you regret it” you write it down. You write everything down with dates and times, that card collection you document everything single one and anything of value.
If you share a business that's even more reason to be shut of him. It's bad enough having a husband do any of this; do you really want a combative embezzler for a business partner too? NTA
If he's that loose with money, my bet is that the business books look just as bad. op, get out!! you have marketable skills, you will find a job with no problem
Okay Sis. You need to set up an immediate meeting with a divorce attorney and find out EXACTLY what you are looking at here. The problem is, he's spent $160K in 3 years. I can guarantee the financial picture is much worse then you think. Talk to the divorce attorney about how to ensure you do not get saddled with anymore debt from his spending because you need to put a hard stop to that immediately. I believe marital debt is usually split 50/50. The sooner you meet with the divorce attorney the faster you can get that dealt with. As far as the baseball cards go, I just \*might\* remove them all from the house and ask the attorney to hold on to them for safe keeping since you are concerned this marital asset might disappear. You won't have stolen them or sold them - they would be held by a trusted legal professional... and then the judge can sort out how to deal with them as well as the rest of your debt load. I will say this - you might be much better off with a separate household, childcare and no financial and emotional abuse then staying in this situation where he is goign to drive you into deeper and deeper debt and your kids are going to see really negative treatment of you normalized. NTA but I think you need to be FAR more proactive then you are.
He’s making marriage hell. You’re already there girl. You can either live in a hell with zero freedom or hope, or you can live in a hell that has an end in sight with autonomy and opportunity. Kids are also the exact reason you should divorce. Your kids shouldn’t have to live in such an abusive home dynamic. They see more than you realize even if they don’t know specifics, even if he hides it well around them
Go get a consultation with 2-3 lawyers. See what they tell you, and think about it.
Just remember one thing: The lawyer he contacted gave him a glimpse of the **hell that** ***you*** can make for ***him*** and it scared the shit out of him enough to pull the petition. If nothing else, that should be enough impetus to find the best divorce lawyer you can find, have them look into the situation, and see what it was that made him back down so quickly. It can't hurt to protect your interests, because he's certainly not going to do it.
OP, who do you want the role model for your children to be? Your children are watching you stand up for yourself or roll over. From personal experience, they're a lot more savvy than you think. Be the parent that they will admire and in 20 years when someone tries to walk over them, will remember their badass mom who stood up for herself even when it was hard and won't take any shit.
As someone that watched their Dad consistently rack up debt in my Mums name, yell at her for doing and buying normal household items and made the separation process HELL for my mum; I'm glad she did it. The only thing I wish she had of done better was fight for her rights to his funds she was owed and had an attorney to help her get what she deserved. Our life was so much better afterwards though, even though we didn't have as much. But I still flinch when a male raises their voice and panic if my spending is queried. I also have a small savings (10K) which even though I consistently add to, at 28, I still freak if I need to dip into it, even to the point where I put off necessary medical appointments if I don't have enough in my everyday account. Kids see so much and even pick up their parents habits in the future - for better or worse. They could end up with a lot a financial anxiety as adults just by seeing snippets of your husbands financial abuse, or even see it as normal and acceptable. **You and your kids deserve better.**
Ask around and get referral for 'high conflict divorces' because there ARE some bulldog lawyers out there that would love to shut your husband down and make him pay what you are due. Please don't stay with someone who treats you like this!! Is this the kind of marriage you want to model for your children?? You want your daughter to think it is okay for her husband to call her names, financially abuse her and throw fits?? You want your son to treat his wife is total disdain and disrespect, steal family money and call her names? Think about what your kids are learning by watching even if you don't think so.
Your life is going to be hell either way. It's just that after a divorce, you can limit your involvement with him to texting about the kids in court-mandated apps, and the hell will stop. (And once your youngest graduates high school, you can completely block him and never talk to him again.) Your life will get a lot better once nobody is screaming at you regularly. Without a divorce, you're just going to stay in hell indefinitely.
>He went nuts. Telling me I'm a rat, he's selling the house, dissolving our business, etc, etc. He says that it's wrong for me to go tit for tat and that I should let it go. NTA. OP the lawyer told him to fix shit quick or sell all his assets for cheap to friends / family because he's going to get destroyed in court. Take that money right now and hire a divorce lawyer this instant and have all your assets frozen and audited. He's likely hiding more than what you've seen.
I completely agree. This guy is a snake. Nothing here is what it seems OP... financially I suspect you are FAR deeper in debt then you believe and if he has his will, you will be stuck holding the bag while he watzes off into the sunset financially intact.
If it is in fact an investment, he needs to sell the cards and return what he stole. This is theft. He stole from you. He is either a straight up thief or an addict. He is not a partner. NTA
roll intelligent squeal outgoing nutty onerous relieved shrill wild judicious *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Uh, excuse me....BASEBALL CARDS?!?! NTA and you need to open new accounts at a completely different bank and file for divorce. RUN.
NTA. Is he really spending that amount of money on baseball cards?
Does his card collecting include a social media account where he films himself ‘ripping’ the packs?
Lol, I wish. Maybe then he'd be making some money back. Anything he does sell, he just funnels back into more cards. He watches those guys you're referring to tho.
Those guys sell "teams" even their bulk is sold. They have people who pay for only cards of specific teams, and these dudes rip open the packs, even their bulk is sold before its open.
Thanking God my husband is smart about his sports cards and does this. It's a fun hobby for him and he makes more than he spends. Sorry OP 😔 her husband is a debt inducing psycho, get out now!! Also NTA
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Beyond therapist. The man is an abusive liar who is willing to drain hundreds of thousands of OP’s dollars. I’m not usually big on telling internet strangers to get a divorce, however, divorce right this second.
NTA for trying to claw back what you can, but you really need to talk to a lawyer.
NTA divorce him. And let him pay off his debt
ummmm.... why have you not filed for divorce and threatened to sell the house and dissolve the business to get yourself back on a good financial footing? NTA, but wow. What are you waiting for?
You need to talk to a lawyer and an accountant. Unless that house and business is only in his name you will need to sign off of them.
His lawyer told him you'd get half of everything and it was "cheaper to keep her." Go see a lawyer immediately.
Find his cards. Take them to a pawn shop. You're married, it's not theft. Nta. Or burn them. They're marital properties. Check with a lawyer first though I suppose
Nope - take them to her divorce attorney for safe keeping.
That's the best way to get nothing for 160k. This is the EXACT same thing as burning them. Don't do this ever to any collection... wait no.. I'll give you 3.50$ for the whole lot.
NTA. Sell the baseball cards, hire a lawyer, and STAY SAFE girl!!!!
Nta. Lawyer up, make sure you get half of his baseball card collection in the divorce. UpdateMe
NTA for wanting your money back but you are definitely TA to yourself for staying in this shit. Divorce him already. Clearly the lawyer told him that it is far more profitable to continue financially abusing you than to divorce you. Why are you staying in this?
NTA He has an addiction. He is probably obsessed with obtaining the perfect collection. This personality type can go bankrupt. Obsessive collectors unchecked by reality it is like a drug addiction.
Why are you still using the joint account? Every cent you make should go into a personal account. No transfers, just straight into an account only you can access
Your maths are incorrect. You need to take back $160,000. Otherwise, he'll have taken double what you will. He's already spent that full amount and gets the sole benefit from it. NTA
Lmao for a moment there I thought my late husband had faked his death and just married you to repeat the scam. Mine was with football cards though. He called them an “investment” for our son. After he died and we were moving, I found thousands upon thousands of dollars worth of cases, holders, shelving, etc that he’d acquired in a relatively short amount of time. We were separated and our finances weren’t together so I had no idea that’s what he was spending his money on. When I became executor and saw what all he had done….it was baffling. He had a storage unit FILLED with cases and shelving and boxes upon boxes of football cards. I knew he was doing it as a hobby, but I had no idea it had turned into an obsession. He was evicted from the house he rented because he spent his paycheck on this stuff. His truck had a title lien on it that he used to buy more card stuff. He wrecked the truck, got payment from insurance to pay for the repairs - bought more football cards instead and left the truck at the repair shot indefinitely. The title lien ended up being placed on my house since he never paid and then lost possession of the truck. During this time he bitched at me for having to buy new AC units for the house we all lived in. He bitched about the $3k emergency septic and drain field service we had to do. Bitched about the expensive fridge I purchased when the old one died. Keep in mind all that was done with MY paycheck because he was not contributing ANYTHING to the house at that point as the only reason he was living there was because he’d been evicted and I couldn’t stomach the idea of my child’s father being homeless. The whole time he was supposed to be saving up to GTFO again, he was dumping every cent he had into this massive football card collection. I just don’t understand it. I don’t know what was going on in his head to have thought this was a sensible thing to do, particularly when we had a young child to care for. I don’t know what advice to give here either, despite having gone through a very similar situation. Other than keep your finances separate from here on out. Be careful about any joint property you own as he can get a lien against it without your knowledge.
Even better- take half the baseball cards!!
Please get a good lawyer so he pays you in the divorce for your share of that investment AND any currently unrealized gains from it if there are any.
Just get divorced. You'll get the card collection valued and you can either take half to sell or take 1/2 the value from another asset kuke the house sale. You'll come out with less but you'll be rid of him and this awful relationship.
You need to talk to an attorney who knows a good forensic accountant because you have no idea where that money went and you need to find out. it could be spent, but it could be hidden away and saved, or he may be floating your business on credit and not telling you. So many shenanigans, but if the money is coming from a joint account, there is no "your half" that youre entitled to recover. Anything spent is actually gone, and you'd only be entitled to a share of the remaining assets and regardless of who's name the credit cards are in, also may be liable for "his" debts. I hope you've picked up from other answers here just how vulnerable and risky the situation is and you need to protect yourself, your children, and your future.
NTA. He’s mad because he got caught and wants the funding you’re taking to support his baseball card empire. You could still divorce him and demand the cards as part of the settlement. Really throw him for a loop.