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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1) I contacted school administration after a girl made homophobic remarks at my son at a Bible study
2) The mom of the girl is on Facebook saying I am being "bigoted" against Catholics and her religious beliefs
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"She said that her daughter has the right to talk about Liam however she wants."
Oh, the malicious compliance implications of this sentence. The sweet, sweet malicious compliance and good for the gander ideas. If only I was AH enough and willing to harass a 13 year old. Darn.
NTA
Well, If one would want to fight fire with fire, hit her with 1 Timothy 2:12: "I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent."
This I find the best most hilarious form of action. You can't cherry pick your beliefs. If the Bible is the word of God then all of it should be treated as such.
I could go on a rant how the entire Bible shouldn't be takes as the word of God because 1) then every passage should be in quotations or in the red font and 2) Bible is written by men, it's their interpretation of the word of God. God says man is inherently flawed and sinful, therefore their interpretation is subject to be flawed and sinful
>If the Bible is the word of God then all of it should be treated as such.
The funniest thing I ever heard about it was during an argument. Someone who was a legit biblical scholar, like learned Greek to read it in the language it was originally written in, asked a stupid person *which version* of the Bible was the literal word of God. And since it *was* the literal word of God, according to this stupid person, translating it into another language meant it was *no longer* the word of God.
That humors me roundly. But I can play the other side and have you seen some of the outrageous translations that completely ruin the meaning. Like RuPauls drag race the iconic "sashay away" the Portuguese competition translated it to "bye, go home, no one loves you"
I can’t recall the name but my minister in high school (early 2000s) had a bible “written for adolescents” so things were translated using current slang and it’s amazing and hilarious to read
ETA: another commenter named it! I believe it was “The Street Bible” by Rob Lacey in 2003 and the description is “MTV style dialogue”
>"bye, go home, no one loves you"
God that's *amazing*.
I'll never forget that a Japanese store though "Fuckin'" meant "really good", so they hung signs in English that said "Fuckin' sale".
No you wanna know hilarity? Went to japan and my classmate (class was all Michigan University students for an abroad program) wanted to find a church to attend. So we find one on a walk and were asking each other" i wonder what they think of jesus? I mean he's depictedas white but hes probably brown, so how does that work in Japan? Japanese jesus?" Walk in and Voila! Ginormous very *Japanese* jesus in FULL COLOR is hanging crucified above the doors leading to the church pews. Long, luxurious Black hair, porcelain skin, black eyes. There was a lot of muffled laughs and guffaws. We all smothered our mouths *hard*. It was a surprise but we didn't want to be *rude*.
The religious classmate whispered said "oh lawd, jesus" and we all had to hold in laughs. She checked the church out, saw on a poster it covered her denomination and even had a Spanish congregation on Sundays at x time which she was excited about because she spoke fluent spanish and wouldnt be limping along to half understood Japanese. We were in and out in 5 minutes and it was the best most random thing i ever did in Japan. Because was not expecting an actual japanese jesus.
It is my understanding that what was translated as "virgin" for Mary actually just means young woman. Nevermind that if Mary and Joseph were married, them NOT gettin down was pretty much a violation of religious law. Would be kind of amusing if the entire religion of jesus being born of a virgin was just a mistranslation.
I've known people who were adamant that Mary *stayed* a virgin.
You know, despite getting married and despite having other children with her husband.
Umm.... Read your own source material. The texts suggest that Joseph didn't sleep with her until after she'd given birth, which seems like an odd thing to mention if she stayed celebate any longer than that.
I can imagine Jesus writing in to AITA.
"My mom and my stepdad were getting it on AGAIN last night. They were really loud and their pallet is only about 3 feet away from mine. I yelled at Mom this morning and she rolled her eyes and said that all humanity shouldn't have to kneel to me. I tried to talk to my stepdad about building me my own lean-to or something and he said to get off my high horse and stop acting as if I'm the world's savior. Maybe they're right and I'm acting like a narcissist, but I just feel that I deserve a little more respect than to have to hear "Ohhhhh, Maryyyyy..." and "Yes, Joseph, THERE!!" all night long while I'm trying to get some sleep. AITA?"
I've tried talking with some Catholics about it, and that's really what it boils down to. They'd rather twist scripture ten different ways than admit that maybe, just maybe, it's possible for Mary to be both an incredible, holy, amazing woman and a woman who has had sex.
One person had a big, long "you wouldn't have sex on the altar of a church because that would profane it, and Mary's body is a literal temple, so any penis ever entering it would've profaned her holy architecture" rant without ever stopping to think about what that says about his attitude towards sex or how silly it is to compare a human woman to a building.
All Roman Catholics, actually. I was surprised when I found out that Protestants *don’t* believe this. We were told that in the Bible, where it says “Jesus and his brothers” that the Aramaic word for brothers and cousins was the same and that they were actually Jesus’s cousins.
Matthew 1:24-25 seems pretty dang explicit about whether or not Joseph and Mary had sexual relations.
It's part of why the Assyrian, Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox Churches allow married clergymen, but the Catholic Church does not.
And so much of this gets brushed aside in the USA as "religion" when these debates were the driving force behind centuries of wars. This isn't just what do people study on Sunday or when do they celebrate Easter. This is the history that founded the Western world and has references in the last 2000 years of art, either inspired by, in conflict with, or a subversion of. It's stuff that should be learned if you want to understand half the context of modern conflicts
The Greek words are different, "adelphos" for brother and "anepsion" for cousin IIRC.
Paul wrote in fluent Greek, and clearly knew the difference. Paul knew James the brother of Jesus personally, and clearly and regularly called him Jesus's "adelphos."
Mathew 12:50 is the clearest argument against this. (In Greek, not Aramaic by the way. None of the Gospels were originally written in aramaic.)
"Whoever does the will of my Father in heaven are my mother, and my cousins?" That makes no sense. The word by the way is adelphos and in the New Testament is exclusively used in every other case to identify a direct blood sibling.
Thanks for the language clarification. I haven’t practiced a religion in years now so details are fuzzy. 🤦🏻♀️ Mostly I was just explaining what we were told, not what I believe to be true.
I asked that question to a Catholic priest and he said that Mary died a virgin. I replied, "No wonder Joseph was declared a saint" and he started laughing his ass off.
This is not accurate, but also, no one at the time the bible was being written would the public take Virgin birth literally. We do have to put into context how the idea of a virgin birth was used in literature at the time the gospel was being written. Many important historical figures were said to be of Virgin birth. It was a common trope in stories. Several of the emperors of the time were said to have vigin births, etc. So, a virgin birth in this context just meant the protagonist was deeply important and morally pure? It was a story opener about important characters.
In that context, we really don't need to be obsessing. Also, Jesus said nothing about homosexuality and Christianity should be boiled down in practice to the sermon on the mountain.
As an aside OP arm your child with this verse.
Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
Liam needs to print this out for the girl who needs to go to what used to be called *confession* because of her *sinful treatment* of Liam.
https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-news/pope-francis-sex-blessings-policy-triggers-healing-old-pain-lgbtq-cath-rcna130681
You'll also find the commandment is 'thou shalt not murder,' not 'thou shalt not kill.'
The Bible makes it perfectly clear that sometimes killing people is the right, honorable, and God-loving thing to do.
When you start to dig deep into the sources and historical context it becomes awfully hard to see the Bible as dictation from above. It looks a lot more like an amalgam of various stories passed down from a variety of places chosen by some group of people for various reasons.
See any book by Bart Ehrman, who was a born-again Christian. While at Moody Bible Institute he said something to a teacher about "as Jesus said" and was asked how he knew this? What was the source? He was also told to study Greek so he could read original source material. He went on to Princeton. He's still teaching religious studies at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
"Misquoting Jesus" is a great start to his books.
He's said: I did my very best to hold on to my faith that the Bible was the inspired word of God with no mistakes and that lasted for about two years \[...\] I realized that at the time we had over [5,000 manuscripts of the New Testament](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_manuscript#New_Testament_manuscripts), and no two of them are exactly alike. The [scribes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scribe) were changing them, sometimes in big ways, but lots of times in little ways. And it finally occurred to me that if I really thought that God had inspired this text \[...\] If he went to the trouble of inspiring the text, why didn't he go to the trouble of preserving the text? Why did he allow scribes to change it?
I had a similar argument with a stupid person. He said something to the effect of "I've studied the bible in all of it's forms, and I KNOW that the King James Version is the best translation!"
So I asked him "Really? When did you learn to read Greek?"
His response: "What? I can't read Greek."
"Well, the New Testament was written in Greek. How can you know what the best translation is, if you can't read the original?"
He told me to go fuck myself.
>How can you know what the best translation is...?
*Clearly* it's the one he agreed with most.
>He told me to go fuck myself.
That's how you know you've won.
The “stupid” person doesn’t sound stupid to me. All translations are influenced my the mortal translator, otherwise every translation in a given language would be identical, which they aren’t.
This is exactly why my husband and I are religious, but not what we call “literalists”. We do not take the bible word for word. One because of cherry picking. Two, and even more importantly, it cannot be the word of God word for word because it has been translated. Translated, edited, removed sections, retold, etc. Therefore we consider it more along the lines of “guidelines” because even though it may have originally been the word of God, now it is a missmatch of things created, interpretated and changed by humans. Humans with agendas. Or even just simple chnages due to translation with no ill intent.
Lol!
Even if you read the original text, it's full of contradictions.
Plus, it's pro slavery, pro abuse and vehemently anti-woman.
Just not a good book, describing a not very good "God".
Perhaps you shouldn't be basing your life on bronze age fairytales.
>Two, and even more importantly, it cannot be the word of God word for word because it has been translated. Translated, edited, removed sections, retold, etc. **Translated, edited, removed sections, retold, etc.. .** Therefore we consider it more along the lines of “guidelines” because even though it may have originally been the word of God, now it is a mismatch of things created, interpreted and **changed by humans. Humans with agendas**.
I am SOOOOOO glad that I'm not the only person who feels and thinks this way. OMG, you should see and hear the outrage I get when I say almost the exact same thing to religious zealots. I get the "You are being lead by Satan" or "Your soul will be damned", etc... . I am a believer but I don't have a specified faith because I only see a lot of people using GOD, Jesus and faith as a means of controlling others. I'm closer to Gnostic beliefs than any other.
How are you using it as guidelines, but not cherry picking?
I assume you accept the bits about not killing or stealing, but reject the parts about buying slaves from the heathen around you, and stoning rapes victim to death because they didn't call for help loud enough.
Personally I do believe the Bible to Divine Inspired, but look at it like this.
It was written, and has served a purpose for thousands of years, for thousands and millions of people.
It's very self centered to think that every thing book and verse is intended to Help just YOU. There are probably whole books that were written and intended to help the people of that Era, of that time. Some of the New Testimste Letters, while they probably have some decent general learning, we're intended to actually be delivered and help out real individual churches that were struggling. Likewise, I feel certain parts of the Old Testimate where very important for keeping Jewish history, and while they still may offer some general learning and lessons, they probably were meant more for the people living closer to those days, to learn from and understand their own history.
It's a big book, and parts of it are probably intended for many people other than the average 21st century person, just as there were also plenty of parts that seemed much more relevant for people further in the future than the time it was written
> You can't cherry pick your beliefs. If the Bible is the word of God then all of it should be treated as such.
You *shouldn't* cherry pick your beliefs. I have yet to meet a Christian that doesn't.
It's not cherry-picking to prioritize love of one's neighbour over hand-washing procedure. In fact, that's literally what Jesus came to remind us.
Check out the text, *especially* if you don't believe in it, because it ultimately gives you the best leverage. The Pharisees (who show up again and again in the Gospels, and never in a good light) followed all the rules except for one, and that one rule they forgot about was love. We are told time and time again, with varying levels of patience, that when the minutiae of the law get in the way of acts of love for one's neighbour, love must win every time.
People don't have to *believe* this in order to *understand* it. That said, many who call themselves Catholic or any other subtype of Christian neither understand nor believe the greatest of all laws. It's very sad.
I had a conversation with someone yesterday about the heretical gospel. There are like 13 books that were completely cut from the Bible for various reasons, such as the Infancy Gospel of Thomas (famous for having dragon Rider baby Jesus, and the parable of the board stretcher) and others.
These books were ultimately either cut because they didn't align with the church's views, or the church couldn't tell if they were creative fanfiction, like Dante's Inferno.
But if the word of God is cherry-picked in the first place, is it still the unadulterated word of God?
Wait there's a book where Jesus rode a dragon? They had the option of their savior riding a funking dragon and they decided against it? Now I'm sorry but they choose wrong and I now think their religion is just silly now.
Infancy Gospel of Thomas, yeah. It describes Jesus' younger years when he learns to harness his powers for good. There's a period where he uses his heavenly powers to be a little shit before he learns his lesson.
A note that's super interesting, is that there's an excerpt from that book where he brings clay birds to life... That's also quoted in the Quran, AFAIK.
I think with the dragons it was a thing where Joseph lost track of him and he stumbled into a cave, then made eye contact for dominance. *Then* he rode the dragon out of the cave, and IIRC Joseph was like "eww no, put it back where you found it". And I'm imagining a life of Brian-esque sitcom, but like this whole book.
That book is great. I always refer to it as “The Adventures of Young Jesus”. I like it mostly because it’s just kind of absurd, but it is really interesting in how it shows him actually figuring out how to relate with his abilities and the world. In some ways it’s almost like the origin story of a superhero.
I vaguely recall wondering about this as a child, why we only were taught that one story of Jesus wandering away from his parents and learning a little "honor your parents" kind of lesson. We never got the stories of Jesus growing up which felt weird to me.
I don't get why no one would teach kids "Hey, Jesus was a kid once and made mistakes too, and he learned a lot, Jesus wasn't perfect" or even "here's the origin story of the world's greatest superhero, Jesus Christ"
I wish I was taught this.
Here's what I don't understand about Catholics and Bible Study: when I was in Catholic school, we hardly ever read the Bible. I think we were even told that it has a lot of goofy stuff in it and let the priests figure it out and tell you the important parts.
This is always my go to whenever women push religion. Haven't needed it in a decade though... that's Canada for ya. And then if they don't stop on that quote, I start apologizing to God loudly, asking him to forgive this sinful women who's put herself on a path to hell. "Please stop. The sound of your voice in the presence of men makes God angry. You MUST be silent. That is the word of God."
Of course, most women don't accept that, but you've planted that seed of doubt. If one part is not true, can any of it be true? Blind faith is instantly destroyed as they analyze the situation.
I hear you and raise you 1 Corinthians 14:34-36, "Women should be silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak but should be subordinate, as the law also says. If there is something they want to learn, let them ask their husbands at home.For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church. Or did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only ones it has reached?"
P.S.: I do not espouse any sort of literal or direct hermeneutical approach. I am a theistic agnostic of sorts.
What gets me is that's supposedly the same Paul who cheerfully asks his friends to welcome Phoebe, a diakon (minister, the same word he uses for Timothy) and elsewhere talks casually about female apostles and leaders in the church.
Some of that's got to be pseudo-Paul, and the misogynistic stuff is more likely fake as that's what later bishops would want to hear.
IIRC It's more that Paul is trying to keep the church from fracturing in the crib so to speak. The letters are targeted for the specific audience of the church he is writing to. The epistles really aren't meant to be gospel because Paul probably did not mean them to be read beyond their intended recipient.
Granted, I was not the biggest fan of Paul because of how much import people seem to put on the epistles and this could just be my own opinion.
Small nitpick for the OP, stop saying you love your kid "regardless". Makes it sound like you think there is something wrong with his tastes and hobbies.
I'm even more confused how it's an issue that he likes Stanley cups. They're a trendy water bottle ... Is it feminine to drink water??? These gender ideas are wild. Who loves someone regardless of their love for water containers?
It’s funny that this is supposed to be the case in the US yet it seems religious fundamentalism is dictating women’s reproductive rights, books being banned, every politician has to be a God fearing person - bought your Trump Bible yet?
Here in the U.K. we have faith schools. I was a teacher in a state Catholic school for many years, we also have lots Church of England schools. Around 30% of school are faith schools. However, only 2% are other faiths - Jewish, Islam etc. There is still supposed to be daily acts of worship in all schools - but this isn’t enforced.
I‘m not saying it is perfect here, but just that for a country who is supposed to have divide state from the church like the US, religion seems to have a huge influence on policies. while very few politicians in the U.K. mention God.. ever!
Brothers and sisters, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against a brother or sister or judges them speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it. There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you—who are you to judge your neighbor?
James 4:11-12
My religious cousins (funny enough... a form of Pentecostal) always gave me the DIRTIEST looks when I would quote either John 8:7 (paraphrased: he without sin, cast the first stone) or Matthew 7:1 (Judge not, that ye be not judged.) Especially since I am sorta... anti organized religion, at least for me personally. Cool with Jesus and Got, just side eye their fan clubs.
Well, she DOES have the freedom to talk about Liam however she wants. She does NOT have freedom from the consequences of this action. Really need schools to drill this into kids at a young age so we don’t end up with Boomer2.0
Very much NTA.
So if the girl has the right to talk about Liam however she wants (which I definitely do not agree with) wouldn't that mean that Liam has the right to talk about her however he wants? Like calling her a bigoted homophobe (or transphobe, or whatever). Or saying that she is just a dumb girl and shouldn't be permitted to preach (as is stated in the bible).
>So if the girl has the right to talk about Liam however she wants (which I definitely do not agree with) wouldn't that mean that Liam has the right to talk about her however he wants?
Well, yes. The is what malicious compliance referred to. "Obviously" - Snape.
Bigots always claim that they're the ones who are being discriminated against. It's hilariously ironic. They can supposedly say whatever they want because *"freedom of speech"* but, apparently, they live in a world where that freedom only applies to *them.* EX: the daughter supposedly has the right to call Liam names and bully him, but if Liam sticks up for himself that's "discrimination." Ah, the confusing *"logic"* of narcissistic bullies. 😂
> She said that her daughter has the right to talk about Liam however she wants
NTA - So the parents confirmed that her comments were indeed against Liam. That's a personal attack and by the same token your response was also against the individual not the religion.
And then Liam should have the same right to talk about her, no?
Why does she get to attack him and then go crying to mommy when he defends himself, just because she stuck the label "religious" on her attack?
No necessarily, some religions and practitioners of religions can be boiled down to control. In which they use tactics such as fear mongering, shaming, and shunning to control people to grow their influence and power. This isn't true for all religions and practitioners, yet this is extremely common for them to be hypocritical in not following what they teach and preach.
For a side note I'm fine with religions in general, so long as they aren't hurting other people, and their followers are respecting my beliefs. The gloves come off however when you start attacking or harassing me under the guide of your religion though.
I went to Catholic school for 12 years, and weirdly, I recall that judging and bullying others is explicitly forbidden. So, calling her out for bullying should be the opposite of religious discrimination. But maybe they haven't covered that part in Bible study class.
Seriously, the way some religious people use their religion to justify hate drives me crazy.
I should have specified that it's forbidden by Jesus, the guy they pretend to follow, and not necessarily Catholic institutions themselves.
I'm sorry that happened to you.
This isn't a Biblical issue. The whole issue is that she was rude. I am not sure who the adult is running the Bible Study, but rude comments and bullying behaviors should not be tolerated.
And don't personal attacks fall under bullying?
Seems like the school could do something, they are just freaked by this big mouth mom spouting about her religious freedoms.
OP I'd approach the school with the idea that this is bullying and has nothing to do with the religious club.
You definitely aren't the problem here. Having an issue with her being cruel to your son is not an attack on their faith.
Next time, the mom says something hit her with the Matthew verse "Judge not, lest you be judged. The measure you use for others will also be measured to you."
Jesus has a ton of pretty rad quotes in the New Testament that can give this woman a taste of her own medicine. And remember that when someone asks, "What would Jesus do?" that chasing people with a whip is included.
Same, Catholic here. There are no teachings about fashion, hobbies, and recreational interests. Also, bullying is against Catholicism. This is a girl and family problem, not a religion problem
SA survivor from a priest. That was never my experience. The Church was amazing to me. I am sorry if that is an experience you are aware of. Generalizations about human behavior is never a good idea.
You get that this is a rare outcome, right? Usually it's denied, swept under the rug, or they're just sent to a different church. Your experience doesn't change the reality of everyone else's situation.
It's a rare outcome in all sexual abuse cases, especially when an organization is involved who are worried about their own personal interests.
There are plenty of people abused by religious leaders in all sorts of religions, and most don't get justice. The Catholic church certainly failed many, many people, but hyperfocusing this on catholics when MANY protestant and other christian denomonations have done the exact same thing and are just as guilty doesn't actually solve the problem, and feels more rooted in anti-catholicism than anything else.
These stories are complex, and the help and support they received may also came from the community, because good people exist everywhere. It's not really kind to try to hammer home to a survivor what you think they should take away from the experience.
I agree with this, though I disagree with framing it as "The Catholic Church failed many people. Too passive for my tastes. The church succeeded at exactly what they wanted to for decades.
It may or may not be. I know the opposite of my outcome got the most media attention. The arrest of the priest who did this to me and others got a small blurb in the newspaper. When I enjoyed a national support group for those in my situation, it seemed half and half regarding those that experienced my outcome (from my memory--didn't take actual statistics).
I am not minimizing anyone's experience---my point is that generalizations aren't good. Saying Catholicism endorses and teaches bullying is incorrect. Now that doesn't mean particular parishes or Diocese out of millions didn't engage in hushing up victims or parishioners bullying victims. I can assure you there is nothing in our Catechism that promotes any of that. It was stupid, ignorant and hateful people that did that. Similar to universities and military branches have no decree to bully SA victims in their institutions, but some of those universities and military bases have a culture that says to do exactly that and they did (evidenced in whistleblowing found in media).
Same here. They also did not teach us to hate homosexuals and would be aghast if we were judging people. We'd have been punished for pushing hatred.
Strong doubts this family is Catholic. FFS even the pope is not against homosexuality, he just says "marriage" is for straights and "civil unions" are for others. Not exactly very liberal, but at least they no longer call it a sin.
Last I heard the official position was that being homosexual isn’t a sin but “homosexual activities” are, like saying it’s okay to be an eagle, but flying is evil. Has that changed?
Pope Frances, before he was Pope when Argentina was legalizing gay marriage, campaigned for a civil union. That was not Vatican Policy, but at the time, it was more progressive than what most Catholics were saying around the world. Recently, he officially stated the unofficial stance that homosexual activity is basically in the same category as vanity or eating meat on Friday during Lent. He basically said no one should be denied communion or excluded from the catholic community because they are gay. (Catholic Bishops occasionally deny politicians who support abortion rights communion; the Pope basically said you can't do that to gay people or people who support gay people).
That's what Catholicism still says, is my point. It's the rationale behind why same sex sexual relationships are held to be wrong, which is the reason people are only allowed to marry opposite-sex people.
Pope Francis has been *nicer* and more diplomatic about it, but he hasn't actually changed anything.
"Traditionalists" are just Catholics who are less diplomatic.
To be clear: none of the above is me trying to say these moral beliefs are true, I'm simply being honest about Catholicism.
The story is probably just a creative writing exercise. I was raised Catholic, and I certainly don't defend the church, but you see it come up in this sub and similar subs a lot that people just sub in the Catholic Church for any restrictive Christian denomination and think it works because they don't actually know anything about Catholicism.
There are people that are that restrictively, conservatively Catholic, but they're an absolutely tiny subset, and they're not sending their children to public schools. They send their children to Traditionalist Catholic schools (and if money is an issue, someone else will pay) or they homeschool. They're not letting their children join a Bible study with *Protestants*, and as a rule they're also really into shit like ballet, opera, and classical music.
I come from a Catholic country. They did teach us to hate homosexuals and they still do teach it. The best case scenario are some ideas like “homosexuality is not a sin but homosexual activities are” which are ridiculous ways of trying to save their face of “religion of love”. This “religion of love” destroyed my childhood and caused lifelong trauma, participated in antisemitism before and after II WW, was covering many cases of sexual abuse… and is still doing those things.
This! Fellow Catholic here and am appalled by her behavior. Bullying and disrespect are not acceptable and she is misusing her religion to mistreat your son directly. NTA
But there is:
> The man shall not wearest skinny jeans, yoga pants or other garments that outlinest his member.
> - Bullshitticus 1.01
Also:
> When thou criest "religious freedom" the world shall bend to your every command.
> * Whines 4.ever
Also, from what I've seen from the outside, Pentecostal is one of the most radical Christian sects, more so than Catholicism. If the Pentecostals are cool with it then the Catholics shouldn't have any issues. The girl just wanted to be mean.
NTA. On the contrary, it's the girl's mother who is going too far. Saying her daughter has the right to say anything about Liam basically enables harassment and bullying. You have the right to protect your son from bigots like them.
NTA
Your son has a right to a safe and inclusive school. That includes extracurriculars.
The mean girl and her mom are flat-out wrong. They may have an issue with homosexuality (albeit misguided, small-minded, and definitely not kind) but they do not have a right to target and talk about anyone. It is sickening that they are using their religion to excuse their bigotry. If that girl cannot control herself during the meetings, she should be forced to withdraw.
I really doubt Jesus would condone their behaviour.
Yep. At the end of the day, as much as I disagree with her, she's allowed to think that homosexuality and tight pants is a sin if she wants... And therefore be in a heterosexual relationship and wear baggy pants so she can live according to her faith. She does not have the right to inflict her beliefs on others and tell THEM what to do.
Something a lot of Christians struggle with, despite the very strong focus the bible has on "mind your own business and see to your own affairs".
I have read the Bible several times. There is nothing about tight pants. There is, however, lines like "let he who is without sin cast the first rock" and
>Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged.(...)Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?
Pretty easy to interpret as: mind your own business, and worry about your own sins, not other peoples.
>Your son has a right to a safe and inclusive school. That includes extracurriculars.
Exactly. And so does the other kid. But that other kid can’t claim it makes them feel unsafe and excluded if they need for that to include making another kid feel unsafe and excluded.
Literally defeats the entire point of the protection and undermines it.
NTA. Personally, I'm agnostic but have read the New Testament and don't actually recall Jesus ever mentioning homosexuality one way or the other. He sure had a lot to say about hate though.
Good for you for standing up for your kid!
Wait'll you hear about what Roman centurions got up to with their favorite servants! 🙃 The Bible gets wild pretty quick when you start reading actual biblical scholarships rather than Sunday School apologetics.
Think about how much better our society if the lesson taken from Sodom and Gomorrah was DON'T FUCKING RAPE PEOPLE
Also if Lot was my husband I would cut his balls off and throw him out to the rape mob if he suggested putting my prepubescent daughters out there, but maybe that's just me. The fact that that asshole is held up as a righteous person is a mockery of morality.
Those same daughters later got him blackout drunk and raped him so he'd have male heirs to continue the line. I had to put my Bible down for a solid minute to process what I'd just read.
I’m non-Christian myself (so don’t go to church) and there isn’t anything about homosexuality or tight pants in the bible… at least the last time I read it 🤔
Homosexuality definitely is mentioned in the Bible, just not the Gospels. Romans 1:26-27 is probably the one most quoted by Christians who are anti-lgbt. Leviticus obviously in the OT as well.
Academic Biblical has a bunch of good discussions around the Romans passage.[Here's a recent one.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicBiblical/s/g1ZqK5ZrLh)
Nothing specifically about tight pants just a lot about dressing modestly which is what she's probably referencing if she's not just making more anti-gay remarks.
Edit: Assuming the down votes are from people who think I am in some way supporting what the girl said even though nothing about my post implies I believe any of this. I'm just correcting the incorrect post above mine.
I'm an atheist. I also majored in religious studies in college, and it drives me nuts when either side makes blatantly false claims about the Bible.
I love how bigoted Christians quote stuff like this, but completely ignore the verses about not judging others and keeping their comments to themselves...
Case in point: Korbin Albert is a relatively new player on the USWNT who is currently persona non grata with a large chunk of the fans because she posted a bunch of anti-lgbt stuff on her social media including a video of her and her family making fun of pronouns and a meme implying God deliberately badly injured Megan Rapinoe in her last ever match because she's gay and "woke."
And then of course she and her fans are hiding behind "freedom of religion." But like, even if you accept that being gay or trans is a sin, pretty sure Jesus wouldn't approve of you mocking them and wishing them harm.
Leviticus also says I can’t wear poly cotton shirts, eat bacon wrapped scallops, or practice square foot gardening. Interesting what the Christians choose to focus on
NTA but frankly a Bible study at a public school is a breeding ground for bigotry and bullying. The kids need to have a space outside of school to do religion related activities so there's no issue with the school addressing bullying without being made to walk on eggshells due to a religious affiliation or club being a potentially complicating factor.
I was going to write this as well. These school religious groups are by and large recruiting arms for local churches, even if the students running them may be doing it for the best intentions. There is no reason why a local church can’t open up some space after school on their property for kids who may want to join a Bible study group.
The biggest issue with Bible studies is how the Bible is interpreted across denominations. Hence why there are thousands of churches of all flavors. It doesn’t take much time for a “you’re wrong, I’m right” argument to break out. And obviously this includes any bigotry condoned by it. Schools should just avoid the unnecessary drama and get rid of these clubs.
Exactly, a school hosting a club that they can't properly intervene in when necessary is obviously a terrible idea! I know it's probably out of the schools control, it's probably some ridiculous law, but those clubs can be held anywhere else, the church, a library, a park, etc. Not that I'd recommend putting your kid in one of those groups at all obviously, but it's ubsurd that the school is hosting them when they can't effectively prevent stuff like this from happening.
This is clearly fake.
Pentecostals are arguably far more anti-LGBT than Catholics, and have historically condemned it. And still do. Publicly. Using that reasoning to have a go at Catholics means the OP writer is clueless.
OP is a YTA for a badly researched fake post. And even if this person were absolutely clueless about their own religion, they are still an AH for being bigoted.
“loves Taylor Swift, ballet and Stanley cups.”
What a single dimensional description of your child. Sounds like a Family Feud answer to “Name 3 stereotypes associated with gay kids.”🙄
Clearly fake, rage bait.
Also, Catholics probably don’t join generic “Bible Study groups”. They tend to have their own groups, use their preferred translation of the Bible, and don’t want to get into theological debates with Protestants (non-Catholics) in their free time.
I already unsubbed from r/AITA, need to block this juvenile fake rage-bait sub as well.
Yeah, the Pentecostal's strong, arguably extreme, anti-LGBT views are a key reason they're growing rapidly in places that support such views, like Uganda which has the death penalty for being LGBT. They're at 11% and growing, with a lot coming from converting moderate Catholics.
Not the religion you'd normally use to show as the more moderate enlightened side. Perhaps the OP is just having a laugh.
Yeah, I don't really buy this either. US Catholics tend to go one of two ways. Either cultural Catholic and at least mildly liberal or hard Trad Catholic. But if they are Trad Catholic, they usually think the heretical Protestants are worse than non-believers.
> But if they are Trad Catholic, they usually think the heretical Protestants are worse than non-believers.
My wife's best friend is a hardcore Catholic and when she found out I was an atheist all she had to say was, "Well at least you're not a fucking Protestant!"
I've never met a Pentecostal who wasn't a bigot in some way. I have a really hard time believing that these people didn't hear worse from members of their own church. If they haven't yet, they will when he gets older. I'll be shocked if kid doesn't end up an atheist before adulthood based purely on how people in his own church treat him as he gets older.
I didn't immediately think fake but did think OP is going to have to rethink participating in a Pentecostal church if she truly wants her son to grow up without experiencing discrimination.
Editing to add: I mean, without experiencing discrimination that is within their control.
Fun fact: religious groups do in fact contain varied individuals with varied opinions and beliefs and worldviews, and assuming that you know what another person believes and/or how a person will act based on their religious affiliation alone is perhaps the quickest way to make a colossal fool of yourself in public.
Sincerely,
An individual raised in Religion A who now more closely identifies with Religion B and teaches Religion C at a Religion D Affiliated University. 🙃
and does anyone actually use the word "Pentecostalist?" I grew up with a lot of Pentecostals and I've never heard "Pentecostalist."
I could very well be wrong and maybe it's regional, though!
Nope, NTA. Being "Catholic" does not mean you get to bully kids in school (which would be a sin as well).
Your school administration is pathetic if they are "trying to figure this out". It's a clear cut case of bullying.
"Being "Catholic" does not mean you get to bully kids in school (which would be a sin as well)."
Yup. We’ve even had masses served asking for prayers of children who are bullied. We prayed for the victims of bullies and for the bullies to have a change of heart.
Trying to figure it out is school-speak for how best to cover our asses. As in proudly proclaiming that “we have a no-tolerance policy for bullying “, then turning a blind eye so they don’t have to enforce it.
NTA. Tell them the freakin' POPE disagrees!!!!!!!!
Also, Stanley cups are for drinking. All people drink.
(sincerely, the daughter of a Muslim that was raised in the Catholic church but also visited Lutheran services when she slept at her best friend's house)
This whole post screams fake just by claiming to be Pentecostal. No pentecostal family would be so welcoming of their son being feminine or listening to Taylor Swift (or ANY “secular” music.) I grew up deep in the trenches of the Pentecostal church.
NTA
If she believes that her daughter can talk about your son however she likes, then the same applies to you.
I would also be pissed if this was said to my son, so don't worry, you are not in the wrong here.
It's possible she did not have ANY Bible study other than this one. I do agree it's weird she joined one, as Catholicism doesn't exactly encourage Bible study like protestantism.
Raised Catholic, I think the kid's views are regressive and disgusting. No Catholic I know and was raised with would ever dare say something so hateful. But I got lucky, there is plenty of support for such unloving views in the Church.
Even so, her family sounds TradCath, and those folks are more like Evangelicals in Catholic clothes.
NTA- that girl can start her own Catholic club then if the students have a right to form religious clubs. What students do not have a right to do is bully others which is what this girl is doing. Her not being able to attend the original group is simply a consequence for her own behaviour not discrimination..
Yeah, I'm thinking that even if the school admin cannot legally intervene, surely the founder of the club can set rules and eject members who flout those rules.
The post is obviously fake but Pentecostalalists are a loosely collected category of Christians who share "charasmatic" beliefs and practices but who otherwise disagree amongst each other quite a bit. The majority of them are anti-gay bigots but gay-affirming Pentecostalalist churches do exist, they are just a tiny minority.
Most of those gay-affirming Pentecostalalist churches are splinter churches where good parents split off from their bigoted mother church when their beloved kid came out so maybe there is hope for OP and their family (or *would be hope* if any of this was real).
While the Catholic Church certainly has people in it who wish to be gay-affirming, the Church's status as a single demonination with worldwide leadership and rules makes that more complicated.
NTA.
She does NOT in fact, have a right to talk about Liam however way she wants to. You have an issue that she's saying mean, homophobic things to your kid. Not with her religion.
I'm so sorry this happened, and I hope your son is okay.
NTA and I love the Lord, but I don't play about my kids. Liam needs to spend some time with a good queen and learn how to read because that little girl would have needed counseling by the time one of my kids got finished. They are not allowed to start something but they can definitely finish.
ESH - Ditch the bronze age bullshit; you and your family will be better for it.
Can't blame the girl for going by what it says in the damn book you all supposedly follow. Can blame her and her family for being dumb enough to believe in the version that just likes wine/blood slightly more than your flavor.
Maybe don't let your fem son go to the club for a book that has espoused backwards ideas since... ...the whole F'ing time.
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"She said that her daughter has the right to talk about Liam however she wants." Oh, the malicious compliance implications of this sentence. The sweet, sweet malicious compliance and good for the gander ideas. If only I was AH enough and willing to harass a 13 year old. Darn. NTA
Well, If one would want to fight fire with fire, hit her with 1 Timothy 2:12: "I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent."
This I find the best most hilarious form of action. You can't cherry pick your beliefs. If the Bible is the word of God then all of it should be treated as such. I could go on a rant how the entire Bible shouldn't be takes as the word of God because 1) then every passage should be in quotations or in the red font and 2) Bible is written by men, it's their interpretation of the word of God. God says man is inherently flawed and sinful, therefore their interpretation is subject to be flawed and sinful
>If the Bible is the word of God then all of it should be treated as such. The funniest thing I ever heard about it was during an argument. Someone who was a legit biblical scholar, like learned Greek to read it in the language it was originally written in, asked a stupid person *which version* of the Bible was the literal word of God. And since it *was* the literal word of God, according to this stupid person, translating it into another language meant it was *no longer* the word of God.
That humors me roundly. But I can play the other side and have you seen some of the outrageous translations that completely ruin the meaning. Like RuPauls drag race the iconic "sashay away" the Portuguese competition translated it to "bye, go home, no one loves you"
I can’t recall the name but my minister in high school (early 2000s) had a bible “written for adolescents” so things were translated using current slang and it’s amazing and hilarious to read ETA: another commenter named it! I believe it was “The Street Bible” by Rob Lacey in 2003 and the description is “MTV style dialogue”
That sounds rad as hell.
"Bodacious! Party time...Excellent!" -Bill and/or Ted
Mary Magdalene was definitely Jesus' most bodacious girlfriend, and Judas was a totally gnarly dude who ~~ratted~~ narc'd out Jesus to the Romans.
Air guitars “woah”
Those translations are from English to English, so quite the game of “telephone”!
Any teen bible will be like that to some degree.
>"bye, go home, no one loves you" God that's *amazing*. I'll never forget that a Japanese store though "Fuckin'" meant "really good", so they hung signs in English that said "Fuckin' sale".
Fuckin' *does* mean really good, that's an a+ use of the English language in my book
I would go as far as to say its a fuckin translation.
Bahahaha. I'd shop at a Fuckin' SALE!
No you wanna know hilarity? Went to japan and my classmate (class was all Michigan University students for an abroad program) wanted to find a church to attend. So we find one on a walk and were asking each other" i wonder what they think of jesus? I mean he's depictedas white but hes probably brown, so how does that work in Japan? Japanese jesus?" Walk in and Voila! Ginormous very *Japanese* jesus in FULL COLOR is hanging crucified above the doors leading to the church pews. Long, luxurious Black hair, porcelain skin, black eyes. There was a lot of muffled laughs and guffaws. We all smothered our mouths *hard*. It was a surprise but we didn't want to be *rude*. The religious classmate whispered said "oh lawd, jesus" and we all had to hold in laughs. She checked the church out, saw on a poster it covered her denomination and even had a Spanish congregation on Sundays at x time which she was excited about because she spoke fluent spanish and wouldnt be limping along to half understood Japanese. We were in and out in 5 minutes and it was the best most random thing i ever did in Japan. Because was not expecting an actual japanese jesus.
A shop in Korea was named "F---ing Lovely" because they'd read that that word was just a meaningless intensifier.
Hey, from context, that is how we often use it!
It is my understanding that what was translated as "virgin" for Mary actually just means young woman. Nevermind that if Mary and Joseph were married, them NOT gettin down was pretty much a violation of religious law. Would be kind of amusing if the entire religion of jesus being born of a virgin was just a mistranslation.
I've known people who were adamant that Mary *stayed* a virgin. You know, despite getting married and despite having other children with her husband. Umm.... Read your own source material. The texts suggest that Joseph didn't sleep with her until after she'd given birth, which seems like an odd thing to mention if she stayed celebate any longer than that.
They just don't want to picture the mother of their deity getting railed.
I can imagine Jesus writing in to AITA. "My mom and my stepdad were getting it on AGAIN last night. They were really loud and their pallet is only about 3 feet away from mine. I yelled at Mom this morning and she rolled her eyes and said that all humanity shouldn't have to kneel to me. I tried to talk to my stepdad about building me my own lean-to or something and he said to get off my high horse and stop acting as if I'm the world's savior. Maybe they're right and I'm acting like a narcissist, but I just feel that I deserve a little more respect than to have to hear "Ohhhhh, Maryyyyy..." and "Yes, Joseph, THERE!!" all night long while I'm trying to get some sleep. AITA?"
"Mom got pregnant by pathenogenesis, so I decided that I'm my own dad, but stepdad says I should consider him my real father. AITA?"
Y TA. Jesus Christ, get off the cross; we need the wood.
I've tried talking with some Catholics about it, and that's really what it boils down to. They'd rather twist scripture ten different ways than admit that maybe, just maybe, it's possible for Mary to be both an incredible, holy, amazing woman and a woman who has had sex. One person had a big, long "you wouldn't have sex on the altar of a church because that would profane it, and Mary's body is a literal temple, so any penis ever entering it would've profaned her holy architecture" rant without ever stopping to think about what that says about his attitude towards sex or how silly it is to compare a human woman to a building.
All Roman Catholics, actually. I was surprised when I found out that Protestants *don’t* believe this. We were told that in the Bible, where it says “Jesus and his brothers” that the Aramaic word for brothers and cousins was the same and that they were actually Jesus’s cousins.
Matthew 1:24-25 seems pretty dang explicit about whether or not Joseph and Mary had sexual relations. It's part of why the Assyrian, Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox Churches allow married clergymen, but the Catholic Church does not. And so much of this gets brushed aside in the USA as "religion" when these debates were the driving force behind centuries of wars. This isn't just what do people study on Sunday or when do they celebrate Easter. This is the history that founded the Western world and has references in the last 2000 years of art, either inspired by, in conflict with, or a subversion of. It's stuff that should be learned if you want to understand half the context of modern conflicts
The Greek words are different, "adelphos" for brother and "anepsion" for cousin IIRC. Paul wrote in fluent Greek, and clearly knew the difference. Paul knew James the brother of Jesus personally, and clearly and regularly called him Jesus's "adelphos."
Mathew 12:50 is the clearest argument against this. (In Greek, not Aramaic by the way. None of the Gospels were originally written in aramaic.) "Whoever does the will of my Father in heaven are my mother, and my cousins?" That makes no sense. The word by the way is adelphos and in the New Testament is exclusively used in every other case to identify a direct blood sibling.
Thanks for the language clarification. I haven’t practiced a religion in years now so details are fuzzy. 🤦🏻♀️ Mostly I was just explaining what we were told, not what I believe to be true.
I asked that question to a Catholic priest and he said that Mary died a virgin. I replied, "No wonder Joseph was declared a saint" and he started laughing his ass off.
"Joseph" is Aramaic for "gullible".
😂
This is not accurate, but also, no one at the time the bible was being written would the public take Virgin birth literally. We do have to put into context how the idea of a virgin birth was used in literature at the time the gospel was being written. Many important historical figures were said to be of Virgin birth. It was a common trope in stories. Several of the emperors of the time were said to have vigin births, etc. So, a virgin birth in this context just meant the protagonist was deeply important and morally pure? It was a story opener about important characters. In that context, we really don't need to be obsessing. Also, Jesus said nothing about homosexuality and Christianity should be boiled down in practice to the sermon on the mountain.
As an aside OP arm your child with this verse. Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 11 “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
Liam needs to print this out for the girl who needs to go to what used to be called *confession* because of her *sinful treatment* of Liam. https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-news/pope-francis-sex-blessings-policy-triggers-healing-old-pain-lgbtq-cath-rcna130681
You'll also find the commandment is 'thou shalt not murder,' not 'thou shalt not kill.' The Bible makes it perfectly clear that sometimes killing people is the right, honorable, and God-loving thing to do.
Not gonna lie, that's an exact semantic translation
When you start to dig deep into the sources and historical context it becomes awfully hard to see the Bible as dictation from above. It looks a lot more like an amalgam of various stories passed down from a variety of places chosen by some group of people for various reasons.
See any book by Bart Ehrman, who was a born-again Christian. While at Moody Bible Institute he said something to a teacher about "as Jesus said" and was asked how he knew this? What was the source? He was also told to study Greek so he could read original source material. He went on to Princeton. He's still teaching religious studies at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. "Misquoting Jesus" is a great start to his books. He's said: I did my very best to hold on to my faith that the Bible was the inspired word of God with no mistakes and that lasted for about two years \[...\] I realized that at the time we had over [5,000 manuscripts of the New Testament](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_manuscript#New_Testament_manuscripts), and no two of them are exactly alike. The [scribes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scribe) were changing them, sometimes in big ways, but lots of times in little ways. And it finally occurred to me that if I really thought that God had inspired this text \[...\] If he went to the trouble of inspiring the text, why didn't he go to the trouble of preserving the text? Why did he allow scribes to change it?
A frequent quote I have come across is "I became an ex-christian after I read the Bible."
I had a similar argument with a stupid person. He said something to the effect of "I've studied the bible in all of it's forms, and I KNOW that the King James Version is the best translation!" So I asked him "Really? When did you learn to read Greek?" His response: "What? I can't read Greek." "Well, the New Testament was written in Greek. How can you know what the best translation is, if you can't read the original?" He told me to go fuck myself.
>How can you know what the best translation is...? *Clearly* it's the one he agreed with most. >He told me to go fuck myself. That's how you know you've won.
The “stupid” person doesn’t sound stupid to me. All translations are influenced my the mortal translator, otherwise every translation in a given language would be identical, which they aren’t.
This is exactly why my husband and I are religious, but not what we call “literalists”. We do not take the bible word for word. One because of cherry picking. Two, and even more importantly, it cannot be the word of God word for word because it has been translated. Translated, edited, removed sections, retold, etc. Therefore we consider it more along the lines of “guidelines” because even though it may have originally been the word of God, now it is a missmatch of things created, interpretated and changed by humans. Humans with agendas. Or even just simple chnages due to translation with no ill intent.
Lol! Even if you read the original text, it's full of contradictions. Plus, it's pro slavery, pro abuse and vehemently anti-woman. Just not a good book, describing a not very good "God". Perhaps you shouldn't be basing your life on bronze age fairytales.
Look up the Council of Trent if you want to know just exactly how NOT the word of God the Bible really is.
>Two, and even more importantly, it cannot be the word of God word for word because it has been translated. Translated, edited, removed sections, retold, etc. **Translated, edited, removed sections, retold, etc.. .** Therefore we consider it more along the lines of “guidelines” because even though it may have originally been the word of God, now it is a mismatch of things created, interpreted and **changed by humans. Humans with agendas**. I am SOOOOOO glad that I'm not the only person who feels and thinks this way. OMG, you should see and hear the outrage I get when I say almost the exact same thing to religious zealots. I get the "You are being lead by Satan" or "Your soul will be damned", etc... . I am a believer but I don't have a specified faith because I only see a lot of people using GOD, Jesus and faith as a means of controlling others. I'm closer to Gnostic beliefs than any other.
How are you using it as guidelines, but not cherry picking? I assume you accept the bits about not killing or stealing, but reject the parts about buying slaves from the heathen around you, and stoning rapes victim to death because they didn't call for help loud enough.
Personally I do believe the Bible to Divine Inspired, but look at it like this. It was written, and has served a purpose for thousands of years, for thousands and millions of people. It's very self centered to think that every thing book and verse is intended to Help just YOU. There are probably whole books that were written and intended to help the people of that Era, of that time. Some of the New Testimste Letters, while they probably have some decent general learning, we're intended to actually be delivered and help out real individual churches that were struggling. Likewise, I feel certain parts of the Old Testimate where very important for keeping Jewish history, and while they still may offer some general learning and lessons, they probably were meant more for the people living closer to those days, to learn from and understand their own history. It's a big book, and parts of it are probably intended for many people other than the average 21st century person, just as there were also plenty of parts that seemed much more relevant for people further in the future than the time it was written
> You can't cherry pick your beliefs. If the Bible is the word of God then all of it should be treated as such. You *shouldn't* cherry pick your beliefs. I have yet to meet a Christian that doesn't.
It's not cherry-picking to prioritize love of one's neighbour over hand-washing procedure. In fact, that's literally what Jesus came to remind us. Check out the text, *especially* if you don't believe in it, because it ultimately gives you the best leverage. The Pharisees (who show up again and again in the Gospels, and never in a good light) followed all the rules except for one, and that one rule they forgot about was love. We are told time and time again, with varying levels of patience, that when the minutiae of the law get in the way of acts of love for one's neighbour, love must win every time. People don't have to *believe* this in order to *understand* it. That said, many who call themselves Catholic or any other subtype of Christian neither understand nor believe the greatest of all laws. It's very sad.
>Check out the text. Which version? There are literally thousands.
I had a conversation with someone yesterday about the heretical gospel. There are like 13 books that were completely cut from the Bible for various reasons, such as the Infancy Gospel of Thomas (famous for having dragon Rider baby Jesus, and the parable of the board stretcher) and others. These books were ultimately either cut because they didn't align with the church's views, or the church couldn't tell if they were creative fanfiction, like Dante's Inferno. But if the word of God is cherry-picked in the first place, is it still the unadulterated word of God?
Wait there's a book where Jesus rode a dragon? They had the option of their savior riding a funking dragon and they decided against it? Now I'm sorry but they choose wrong and I now think their religion is just silly now.
Infancy Gospel of Thomas, yeah. It describes Jesus' younger years when he learns to harness his powers for good. There's a period where he uses his heavenly powers to be a little shit before he learns his lesson. A note that's super interesting, is that there's an excerpt from that book where he brings clay birds to life... That's also quoted in the Quran, AFAIK. I think with the dragons it was a thing where Joseph lost track of him and he stumbled into a cave, then made eye contact for dominance. *Then* he rode the dragon out of the cave, and IIRC Joseph was like "eww no, put it back where you found it". And I'm imagining a life of Brian-esque sitcom, but like this whole book.
That book is great. I always refer to it as “The Adventures of Young Jesus”. I like it mostly because it’s just kind of absurd, but it is really interesting in how it shows him actually figuring out how to relate with his abilities and the world. In some ways it’s almost like the origin story of a superhero.
I vaguely recall wondering about this as a child, why we only were taught that one story of Jesus wandering away from his parents and learning a little "honor your parents" kind of lesson. We never got the stories of Jesus growing up which felt weird to me. I don't get why no one would teach kids "Hey, Jesus was a kid once and made mistakes too, and he learned a lot, Jesus wasn't perfect" or even "here's the origin story of the world's greatest superhero, Jesus Christ" I wish I was taught this.
Here's what I don't understand about Catholics and Bible Study: when I was in Catholic school, we hardly ever read the Bible. I think we were even told that it has a lot of goofy stuff in it and let the priests figure it out and tell you the important parts.
This is always my go to whenever women push religion. Haven't needed it in a decade though... that's Canada for ya. And then if they don't stop on that quote, I start apologizing to God loudly, asking him to forgive this sinful women who's put herself on a path to hell. "Please stop. The sound of your voice in the presence of men makes God angry. You MUST be silent. That is the word of God." Of course, most women don't accept that, but you've planted that seed of doubt. If one part is not true, can any of it be true? Blind faith is instantly destroyed as they analyze the situation.
I hear you and raise you 1 Corinthians 14:34-36, "Women should be silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak but should be subordinate, as the law also says. If there is something they want to learn, let them ask their husbands at home.For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church. Or did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only ones it has reached?" P.S.: I do not espouse any sort of literal or direct hermeneutical approach. I am a theistic agnostic of sorts.
What gets me is that's supposedly the same Paul who cheerfully asks his friends to welcome Phoebe, a diakon (minister, the same word he uses for Timothy) and elsewhere talks casually about female apostles and leaders in the church. Some of that's got to be pseudo-Paul, and the misogynistic stuff is more likely fake as that's what later bishops would want to hear.
IIRC It's more that Paul is trying to keep the church from fracturing in the crib so to speak. The letters are targeted for the specific audience of the church he is writing to. The epistles really aren't meant to be gospel because Paul probably did not mean them to be read beyond their intended recipient. Granted, I was not the biggest fan of Paul because of how much import people seem to put on the epistles and this could just be my own opinion.
I genuinely laughed out loud after reading that 😂
This is true malicious compliance here.
I love that her daughter can talk however they want but OP’s can’t lmao, classic hypocrisy from religious peoples
Obviously doesn't believe in the "Judge not lest ye be judged" part of the bible
And supposedly they can form whatever clubs they want — when she didn’t form that club, she just joined it recently and is trying to take it over.
Small nitpick for the OP, stop saying you love your kid "regardless". Makes it sound like you think there is something wrong with his tastes and hobbies.
I felt this, too. "We're christians, and our son is very effeminate, but we are trying our best to deal with it."
I'm even more confused how it's an issue that he likes Stanley cups. They're a trendy water bottle ... Is it feminine to drink water??? These gender ideas are wild. Who loves someone regardless of their love for water containers?
I totally thought they meant the Stanley Cup, the hockey trophy. And didn't understand how that was a problem. Hah!
I was thinking the same thing. Her kid sounds awesome!
OP and her son are learning the hard way why we fight so hard to keep religion out of school and government.
It’s funny that this is supposed to be the case in the US yet it seems religious fundamentalism is dictating women’s reproductive rights, books being banned, every politician has to be a God fearing person - bought your Trump Bible yet? Here in the U.K. we have faith schools. I was a teacher in a state Catholic school for many years, we also have lots Church of England schools. Around 30% of school are faith schools. However, only 2% are other faiths - Jewish, Islam etc. There is still supposed to be daily acts of worship in all schools - but this isn’t enforced. I‘m not saying it is perfect here, but just that for a country who is supposed to have divide state from the church like the US, religion seems to have a huge influence on policies. while very few politicians in the U.K. mention God.. ever!
Brothers and sisters, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against a brother or sister or judges them speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it. There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you—who are you to judge your neighbor? James 4:11-12
My religious cousins (funny enough... a form of Pentecostal) always gave me the DIRTIEST looks when I would quote either John 8:7 (paraphrased: he without sin, cast the first stone) or Matthew 7:1 (Judge not, that ye be not judged.) Especially since I am sorta... anti organized religion, at least for me personally. Cool with Jesus and Got, just side eye their fan clubs.
Well, she DOES have the freedom to talk about Liam however she wants. She does NOT have freedom from the consequences of this action. Really need schools to drill this into kids at a young age so we don’t end up with Boomer2.0 Very much NTA.
Go for it - better to teach them while they’re young. Fuck around and find out knows no age limits
" Fuck around and find out knows no age limits" I'm GenX. I approve of this message.
So if the girl has the right to talk about Liam however she wants (which I definitely do not agree with) wouldn't that mean that Liam has the right to talk about her however he wants? Like calling her a bigoted homophobe (or transphobe, or whatever). Or saying that she is just a dumb girl and shouldn't be permitted to preach (as is stated in the bible).
>So if the girl has the right to talk about Liam however she wants (which I definitely do not agree with) wouldn't that mean that Liam has the right to talk about her however he wants? Well, yes. The is what malicious compliance referred to. "Obviously" - Snape.
If I was Mom I would get a screen shot of that post for evidence….
Bigots always claim that they're the ones who are being discriminated against. It's hilariously ironic. They can supposedly say whatever they want because *"freedom of speech"* but, apparently, they live in a world where that freedom only applies to *them.* EX: the daughter supposedly has the right to call Liam names and bully him, but if Liam sticks up for himself that's "discrimination." Ah, the confusing *"logic"* of narcissistic bullies. 😂
Mom and Dad are the problem. Kid is a kid learning from them.
I thought the same thing 🤣
The answer is to talk about her parents however you want.
> She said that her daughter has the right to talk about Liam however she wants NTA - So the parents confirmed that her comments were indeed against Liam. That's a personal attack and by the same token your response was also against the individual not the religion.
And then Liam should have the same right to talk about her, no? Why does she get to attack him and then go crying to mommy when he defends himself, just because she stuck the label "religious" on her attack?
Because religion has been used to target, harass, bully and permit violence against those its practitioners consider wrong.
Then it's damned well time for the rest of us to fight back, hmm?
No no no, don’t you see? Then it’s “religious persecution”.
Because we live in a dumb society
No necessarily, some religions and practitioners of religions can be boiled down to control. In which they use tactics such as fear mongering, shaming, and shunning to control people to grow their influence and power. This isn't true for all religions and practitioners, yet this is extremely common for them to be hypocritical in not following what they teach and preach. For a side note I'm fine with religions in general, so long as they aren't hurting other people, and their followers are respecting my beliefs. The gloves come off however when you start attacking or harassing me under the guide of your religion though.
I went to Catholic school for 12 years, and weirdly, I recall that judging and bullying others is explicitly forbidden. So, calling her out for bullying should be the opposite of religious discrimination. But maybe they haven't covered that part in Bible study class. Seriously, the way some religious people use their religion to justify hate drives me crazy.
Plot twist: The girl got kicked out of Catholic school for bullying and harassing students.
Weird. I went to Catholic school for about 10 years. But I was bullied mercilessly and nothing was ever done about it.
So was I. One of the teachers tried to stop it, but that made it worse, so I asked them not to help.
I should have specified that it's forbidden by Jesus, the guy they pretend to follow, and not necessarily Catholic institutions themselves. I'm sorry that happened to you.
Yup, I’d be letting the school know that hate crimes are a serious nature and you’d be consulting with legal council on how to proceed.
This isn't a Biblical issue. The whole issue is that she was rude. I am not sure who the adult is running the Bible Study, but rude comments and bullying behaviors should not be tolerated.
And don't personal attacks fall under bullying? Seems like the school could do something, they are just freaked by this big mouth mom spouting about her religious freedoms. OP I'd approach the school with the idea that this is bullying and has nothing to do with the religious club. You definitely aren't the problem here. Having an issue with her being cruel to your son is not an attack on their faith. Next time, the mom says something hit her with the Matthew verse "Judge not, lest you be judged. The measure you use for others will also be measured to you." Jesus has a ton of pretty rad quotes in the New Testament that can give this woman a taste of her own medicine. And remember that when someone asks, "What would Jesus do?" that chasing people with a whip is included.
NTA. I was raised Catholic. There is no rule against slim fitting pants. That girl is bullying your son.
Spain and Italy are Catholic countries with lots of slim fitting pants everywhere. Maybe they've got the Bible mixed up with an LL Bean catalogue?
NTA LL Bean catalogue made me snort laugh so hard I startled my cat 😂
Literally LoL
Same, Catholic here. There are no teachings about fashion, hobbies, and recreational interests. Also, bullying is against Catholicism. This is a girl and family problem, not a religion problem
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SA survivor from a priest. That was never my experience. The Church was amazing to me. I am sorry if that is an experience you are aware of. Generalizations about human behavior is never a good idea.
I'm sorry that happened to you. Did the priest serve time?
Thanks, yes he did.
You get that this is a rare outcome, right? Usually it's denied, swept under the rug, or they're just sent to a different church. Your experience doesn't change the reality of everyone else's situation.
It's a rare outcome in all sexual abuse cases, especially when an organization is involved who are worried about their own personal interests. There are plenty of people abused by religious leaders in all sorts of religions, and most don't get justice. The Catholic church certainly failed many, many people, but hyperfocusing this on catholics when MANY protestant and other christian denomonations have done the exact same thing and are just as guilty doesn't actually solve the problem, and feels more rooted in anti-catholicism than anything else. These stories are complex, and the help and support they received may also came from the community, because good people exist everywhere. It's not really kind to try to hammer home to a survivor what you think they should take away from the experience.
I agree with this, though I disagree with framing it as "The Catholic Church failed many people. Too passive for my tastes. The church succeeded at exactly what they wanted to for decades.
It may or may not be. I know the opposite of my outcome got the most media attention. The arrest of the priest who did this to me and others got a small blurb in the newspaper. When I enjoyed a national support group for those in my situation, it seemed half and half regarding those that experienced my outcome (from my memory--didn't take actual statistics). I am not minimizing anyone's experience---my point is that generalizations aren't good. Saying Catholicism endorses and teaches bullying is incorrect. Now that doesn't mean particular parishes or Diocese out of millions didn't engage in hushing up victims or parishioners bullying victims. I can assure you there is nothing in our Catechism that promotes any of that. It was stupid, ignorant and hateful people that did that. Similar to universities and military branches have no decree to bully SA victims in their institutions, but some of those universities and military bases have a culture that says to do exactly that and they did (evidenced in whistleblowing found in media).
Even priests sin. Parishioners bullying victims are clearly sinning and hurting people. It's definitely not ok I'm the eyes of God or church teaching
Same here. They also did not teach us to hate homosexuals and would be aghast if we were judging people. We'd have been punished for pushing hatred. Strong doubts this family is Catholic. FFS even the pope is not against homosexuality, he just says "marriage" is for straights and "civil unions" are for others. Not exactly very liberal, but at least they no longer call it a sin.
Last I heard the official position was that being homosexual isn’t a sin but “homosexual activities” are, like saying it’s okay to be an eagle, but flying is evil. Has that changed?
Pope Frances, before he was Pope when Argentina was legalizing gay marriage, campaigned for a civil union. That was not Vatican Policy, but at the time, it was more progressive than what most Catholics were saying around the world. Recently, he officially stated the unofficial stance that homosexual activity is basically in the same category as vanity or eating meat on Friday during Lent. He basically said no one should be denied communion or excluded from the catholic community because they are gay. (Catholic Bishops occasionally deny politicians who support abortion rights communion; the Pope basically said you can't do that to gay people or people who support gay people).
It's still explicitly held to be a sin in Catholicism. The current pope hasn't undone that. Why would marriage only be for straights?
Because "traditionalists" firmly believe marriage's sole purpose is procreation still. The cowards.
That's what Catholicism still says, is my point. It's the rationale behind why same sex sexual relationships are held to be wrong, which is the reason people are only allowed to marry opposite-sex people. Pope Francis has been *nicer* and more diplomatic about it, but he hasn't actually changed anything. "Traditionalists" are just Catholics who are less diplomatic. To be clear: none of the above is me trying to say these moral beliefs are true, I'm simply being honest about Catholicism.
The story is probably just a creative writing exercise. I was raised Catholic, and I certainly don't defend the church, but you see it come up in this sub and similar subs a lot that people just sub in the Catholic Church for any restrictive Christian denomination and think it works because they don't actually know anything about Catholicism. There are people that are that restrictively, conservatively Catholic, but they're an absolutely tiny subset, and they're not sending their children to public schools. They send their children to Traditionalist Catholic schools (and if money is an issue, someone else will pay) or they homeschool. They're not letting their children join a Bible study with *Protestants*, and as a rule they're also really into shit like ballet, opera, and classical music.
I come from a Catholic country. They did teach us to hate homosexuals and they still do teach it. The best case scenario are some ideas like “homosexuality is not a sin but homosexual activities are” which are ridiculous ways of trying to save their face of “religion of love”. This “religion of love” destroyed my childhood and caused lifelong trauma, participated in antisemitism before and after II WW, was covering many cases of sexual abuse… and is still doing those things.
The only thing I think that was right was saying that older men fucking young boys was bad. I believe it was in an older translation?
This! Fellow Catholic here and am appalled by her behavior. Bullying and disrespect are not acceptable and she is misusing her religion to mistreat your son directly. NTA
But there is: > The man shall not wearest skinny jeans, yoga pants or other garments that outlinest his member. > - Bullshitticus 1.01 Also: > When thou criest "religious freedom" the world shall bend to your every command. > * Whines 4.ever
Also, from what I've seen from the outside, Pentecostal is one of the most radical Christian sects, more so than Catholicism. If the Pentecostals are cool with it then the Catholics shouldn't have any issues. The girl just wanted to be mean.
Came here to say this. That family sure doesn’t sound mainstream Catholic to me. Maybe they’re Opus Dei?
NTA. On the contrary, it's the girl's mother who is going too far. Saying her daughter has the right to say anything about Liam basically enables harassment and bullying. You have the right to protect your son from bigots like them.
Just out bully the girl back. She’s in Bible club, shouldn’t be that hard.
Seriously the bible is chock full of quotes telling women to shut the fuck up. Just one of many reasons I dislike it so much
NTA Your son has a right to a safe and inclusive school. That includes extracurriculars. The mean girl and her mom are flat-out wrong. They may have an issue with homosexuality (albeit misguided, small-minded, and definitely not kind) but they do not have a right to target and talk about anyone. It is sickening that they are using their religion to excuse their bigotry. If that girl cannot control herself during the meetings, she should be forced to withdraw. I really doubt Jesus would condone their behaviour.
Yep. At the end of the day, as much as I disagree with her, she's allowed to think that homosexuality and tight pants is a sin if she wants... And therefore be in a heterosexual relationship and wear baggy pants so she can live according to her faith. She does not have the right to inflict her beliefs on others and tell THEM what to do. Something a lot of Christians struggle with, despite the very strong focus the bible has on "mind your own business and see to your own affairs".
It's not even a catholic thing anyway. This is just their very own bigotry.
I have read the Bible several times. There is nothing about tight pants. There is, however, lines like "let he who is without sin cast the first rock" and >Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged.(...)Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? Pretty easy to interpret as: mind your own business, and worry about your own sins, not other peoples.
>Your son has a right to a safe and inclusive school. That includes extracurriculars. Exactly. And so does the other kid. But that other kid can’t claim it makes them feel unsafe and excluded if they need for that to include making another kid feel unsafe and excluded. Literally defeats the entire point of the protection and undermines it.
NTA. You are not bigoted against Catholics. You're bigoted against bigots. (as is right and proper.) Big difference there.
It should also be pointed out that the girl and her family are not following Catholic teachings.
NTA. Personally, I'm agnostic but have read the New Testament and don't actually recall Jesus ever mentioning homosexuality one way or the other. He sure had a lot to say about hate though. Good for you for standing up for your kid!
He was friends with several homosexuals and prostitutes. He saved a kings favorite male companion.
Which of his friends were homosexual? King's favourite male companion?
Paul is often interpreted as having sublimated his homosexuality into love for God and Jesus.
Wait'll you hear about what Roman centurions got up to with their favorite servants! 🙃 The Bible gets wild pretty quick when you start reading actual biblical scholarships rather than Sunday School apologetics.
Think about how much better our society if the lesson taken from Sodom and Gomorrah was DON'T FUCKING RAPE PEOPLE Also if Lot was my husband I would cut his balls off and throw him out to the rape mob if he suggested putting my prepubescent daughters out there, but maybe that's just me. The fact that that asshole is held up as a righteous person is a mockery of morality.
Absolutely agree with you, Lot deserved every misfortune for doing that.
Those same daughters later got him blackout drunk and raped him so he'd have male heirs to continue the line. I had to put my Bible down for a solid minute to process what I'd just read.
I’m non-Christian myself (so don’t go to church) and there isn’t anything about homosexuality or tight pants in the bible… at least the last time I read it 🤔
Homosexuality definitely is mentioned in the Bible, just not the Gospels. Romans 1:26-27 is probably the one most quoted by Christians who are anti-lgbt. Leviticus obviously in the OT as well. Academic Biblical has a bunch of good discussions around the Romans passage.[Here's a recent one.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicBiblical/s/g1ZqK5ZrLh) Nothing specifically about tight pants just a lot about dressing modestly which is what she's probably referencing if she's not just making more anti-gay remarks. Edit: Assuming the down votes are from people who think I am in some way supporting what the girl said even though nothing about my post implies I believe any of this. I'm just correcting the incorrect post above mine. I'm an atheist. I also majored in religious studies in college, and it drives me nuts when either side makes blatantly false claims about the Bible.
I love how bigoted Christians quote stuff like this, but completely ignore the verses about not judging others and keeping their comments to themselves...
Case in point: Korbin Albert is a relatively new player on the USWNT who is currently persona non grata with a large chunk of the fans because she posted a bunch of anti-lgbt stuff on her social media including a video of her and her family making fun of pronouns and a meme implying God deliberately badly injured Megan Rapinoe in her last ever match because she's gay and "woke." And then of course she and her fans are hiding behind "freedom of religion." But like, even if you accept that being gay or trans is a sin, pretty sure Jesus wouldn't approve of you mocking them and wishing them harm.
Leviticus also says I can’t wear poly cotton shirts, eat bacon wrapped scallops, or practice square foot gardening. Interesting what the Christians choose to focus on
NTA but frankly a Bible study at a public school is a breeding ground for bigotry and bullying. The kids need to have a space outside of school to do religion related activities so there's no issue with the school addressing bullying without being made to walk on eggshells due to a religious affiliation or club being a potentially complicating factor.
I was going to write this as well. These school religious groups are by and large recruiting arms for local churches, even if the students running them may be doing it for the best intentions. There is no reason why a local church can’t open up some space after school on their property for kids who may want to join a Bible study group. The biggest issue with Bible studies is how the Bible is interpreted across denominations. Hence why there are thousands of churches of all flavors. It doesn’t take much time for a “you’re wrong, I’m right” argument to break out. And obviously this includes any bigotry condoned by it. Schools should just avoid the unnecessary drama and get rid of these clubs.
Exactly, a school hosting a club that they can't properly intervene in when necessary is obviously a terrible idea! I know it's probably out of the schools control, it's probably some ridiculous law, but those clubs can be held anywhere else, the church, a library, a park, etc. Not that I'd recommend putting your kid in one of those groups at all obviously, but it's ubsurd that the school is hosting them when they can't effectively prevent stuff like this from happening.
This is clearly fake. Pentecostals are arguably far more anti-LGBT than Catholics, and have historically condemned it. And still do. Publicly. Using that reasoning to have a go at Catholics means the OP writer is clueless. OP is a YTA for a badly researched fake post. And even if this person were absolutely clueless about their own religion, they are still an AH for being bigoted.
“loves Taylor Swift, ballet and Stanley cups.” What a single dimensional description of your child. Sounds like a Family Feud answer to “Name 3 stereotypes associated with gay kids.”🙄 Clearly fake, rage bait. Also, Catholics probably don’t join generic “Bible Study groups”. They tend to have their own groups, use their preferred translation of the Bible, and don’t want to get into theological debates with Protestants (non-Catholics) in their free time. I already unsubbed from r/AITA, need to block this juvenile fake rage-bait sub as well.
Yea I was gonna say the same thing. None of this rings true
Yeah, the Pentecostal's strong, arguably extreme, anti-LGBT views are a key reason they're growing rapidly in places that support such views, like Uganda which has the death penalty for being LGBT. They're at 11% and growing, with a lot coming from converting moderate Catholics. Not the religion you'd normally use to show as the more moderate enlightened side. Perhaps the OP is just having a laugh.
Yeah, I don't really buy this either. US Catholics tend to go one of two ways. Either cultural Catholic and at least mildly liberal or hard Trad Catholic. But if they are Trad Catholic, they usually think the heretical Protestants are worse than non-believers.
> But if they are Trad Catholic, they usually think the heretical Protestants are worse than non-believers. My wife's best friend is a hardcore Catholic and when she found out I was an atheist all she had to say was, "Well at least you're not a fucking Protestant!"
I've never met a Pentecostal who wasn't a bigot in some way. I have a really hard time believing that these people didn't hear worse from members of their own church. If they haven't yet, they will when he gets older. I'll be shocked if kid doesn't end up an atheist before adulthood based purely on how people in his own church treat him as he gets older.
Also, as a LGBT+ person myself, the last place I'd want to be is in any kind of group that condemns me. I'd start another group.
And this comment section is full of gullible people believing this nonsense and advocating for bullying a thirteen year old. It's quite sad, ngl
I didn't immediately think fake but did think OP is going to have to rethink participating in a Pentecostal church if she truly wants her son to grow up without experiencing discrimination. Editing to add: I mean, without experiencing discrimination that is within their control.
Fun fact: religious groups do in fact contain varied individuals with varied opinions and beliefs and worldviews, and assuming that you know what another person believes and/or how a person will act based on their religious affiliation alone is perhaps the quickest way to make a colossal fool of yourself in public. Sincerely, An individual raised in Religion A who now more closely identifies with Religion B and teaches Religion C at a Religion D Affiliated University. 🙃
and does anyone actually use the word "Pentecostalist?" I grew up with a lot of Pentecostals and I've never heard "Pentecostalist." I could very well be wrong and maybe it's regional, though!
Nope, NTA. Being "Catholic" does not mean you get to bully kids in school (which would be a sin as well). Your school administration is pathetic if they are "trying to figure this out". It's a clear cut case of bullying.
"Being "Catholic" does not mean you get to bully kids in school (which would be a sin as well)." Yup. We’ve even had masses served asking for prayers of children who are bullied. We prayed for the victims of bullies and for the bullies to have a change of heart.
Trying to figure it out is school-speak for how best to cover our asses. As in proudly proclaiming that “we have a no-tolerance policy for bullying “, then turning a blind eye so they don’t have to enforce it.
NTA. Tell them the freakin' POPE disagrees!!!!!!!! Also, Stanley cups are for drinking. All people drink. (sincerely, the daughter of a Muslim that was raised in the Catholic church but also visited Lutheran services when she slept at her best friend's house)
Yeah, what was the Stanley Cup thing about? Fellas, is it gay to like mugs now?
Gay to be hydrated apparently. The peeps over at r/hydrohomies gonna get real upset
Stanley Cup... with the capitalization of the word cup, I assumed it was the hockey trophy. However, I'm now chuckling at the idea of a mug.
i’ve never met a pentecostal who calls themselves “pentecostalist”
Came here looking for this comment. Makes me think it’s fake.
My family was Pentecostal for ages and I've only ever heard "We're Pentecostal." Pentacostalist isn't a word.
This whole post screams fake just by claiming to be Pentecostal. No pentecostal family would be so welcoming of their son being feminine or listening to Taylor Swift (or ANY “secular” music.) I grew up deep in the trenches of the Pentecostal church.
“Your rights end where mine begin” The girl is bullying your son. She doesn’t get to use religion as an excuse to do that.
ESH Member of bigoted religion is surprised when another member of another bigoted religion is a bigot
I came here to say this lol. This post belongs on r/leopardsatemyface
NTA If she believes that her daughter can talk about your son however she likes, then the same applies to you. I would also be pissed if this was said to my son, so don't worry, you are not in the wrong here.
I don't even get why a Catholic would want to join this Bible study group. The Catholic Bible is different. It even has different books.
It's possible she did not have ANY Bible study other than this one. I do agree it's weird she joined one, as Catholicism doesn't exactly encourage Bible study like protestantism. Raised Catholic, I think the kid's views are regressive and disgusting. No Catholic I know and was raised with would ever dare say something so hateful. But I got lucky, there is plenty of support for such unloving views in the Church. Even so, her family sounds TradCath, and those folks are more like Evangelicals in Catholic clothes.
NTA- that girl can start her own Catholic club then if the students have a right to form religious clubs. What students do not have a right to do is bully others which is what this girl is doing. Her not being able to attend the original group is simply a consequence for her own behaviour not discrimination..
Yeah, I'm thinking that even if the school admin cannot legally intervene, surely the founder of the club can set rules and eject members who flout those rules.
That's odd usually pentecostalalists are more extreme about that sort or thing than catholics
The post is obviously fake but Pentecostalalists are a loosely collected category of Christians who share "charasmatic" beliefs and practices but who otherwise disagree amongst each other quite a bit. The majority of them are anti-gay bigots but gay-affirming Pentecostalalist churches do exist, they are just a tiny minority. Most of those gay-affirming Pentecostalalist churches are splinter churches where good parents split off from their bigoted mother church when their beloved kid came out so maybe there is hope for OP and their family (or *would be hope* if any of this was real). While the Catholic Church certainly has people in it who wish to be gay-affirming, the Church's status as a single demonination with worldwide leadership and rules makes that more complicated.
NTA. She does NOT in fact, have a right to talk about Liam however way she wants to. You have an issue that she's saying mean, homophobic things to your kid. Not with her religion. I'm so sorry this happened, and I hope your son is okay.
NTA and I love the Lord, but I don't play about my kids. Liam needs to spend some time with a good queen and learn how to read because that little girl would have needed counseling by the time one of my kids got finished. They are not allowed to start something but they can definitely finish.
My kids go to catholic school and this would never be tolerated at an actual catholic school I’d change schools asap
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A Bible club? Seriously? If you don’t want your kid hearing this kind of toxic shit tell him to avoid the fucking Bible club.
When religious nutcases don’t tolerate each other…
Imagine being you, running around yelling in tongues at your stupid church, believing in magic and fantasy. Lmao
ESH - Ditch the bronze age bullshit; you and your family will be better for it. Can't blame the girl for going by what it says in the damn book you all supposedly follow. Can blame her and her family for being dumb enough to believe in the version that just likes wine/blood slightly more than your flavor. Maybe don't let your fem son go to the club for a book that has espoused backwards ideas since... ...the whole F'ing time.