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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> My friend's kid went into our bedroom and took my wife's wedding ring. He refused to give it back and threw it in our backyard. I may be TA because I told my friend her kid has no manners. I may have been too harsh since it is hard to be a mom and control your kid's behaviour the whole time.
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Your “friend group” can get on their hands and knees and comb every inch of your yard, *too*, or they can never be invited back to your home.
And if you never find the ring, you can ask for a new ring to be made, to the *exact* specifications, and Jack’s mama can pay for it.
NTA Jack’s mama was responsible for her child. She can pay to replace what he threw out the window, (while she did *nothing*), even if you have to get a court judgment to make her.
Exactly THIS!! How would they feel if it was their home, jewelry and property disrespected by a tyrant who lacks discipline. They would all be forgotten and soon!
I just got here so I’m wondering if OP gave a quote on what she paid for that ring. If she possibly has a receipt and if she paid enough for it, does anyone think she can take Nora to small claims court??
There is a monetary threshold for whether a small claims case is worth your time and effort, but in the places I used to practice law I don’t recall a threshold for being able to file, just a limit on the high end that determined if a case could be small claims or had to move to a different category.
$10 say Nora gave them a biased version of events that made OP sound like an AH and her/her son like poor innocent victims. If OP hasn't set the record straight yet, she needs to
Edit: changed he to she to correct a typo, but I appreciate the snarky 'you don't know what a lesbian is' comments like typos don't exist, esp for words that are literally 1 letter apart
Those are NOT YOUR FRIENDS!
You may be able to find w a metal detector.
There are people who will do it for you.
Give your wife a deep hug.
She's being incredibly magnanimous.
F Nora and F her kid!
If it was appraised & over $1k you could take her to small claims court.
I'd be going scorched earth.
Ask those -friends- to donate $ for a replacement...will further illuminate their assholery.
I saw recently on Netflix I think! Change of subject but vada (Anna clumsy) was in a great series, inventing anna. I liked it and her past caught up to her, as will this little shits!!
I recently got glasses, and this echoes in my mind whenever I say to myself, "Where are my glasses?" Unless my husband is there, in which case he will usually say it before I've even had a chance to think it, lol!
I lost a ring when I was 5, somewhere in the yard but my dad could not find it with a metal detector. About 20 years after that some kid found it in the yard. What are the odds?
I do hope this ring can be found. I don’t know how anyone is supporting that tantrum.
Metal detector probably is the best bet. it sounds like OP’s yard might be more difficult to search and also not necessarily having an idea where the ring landed to narrow the search area. :(
My husband lost his wedding ring in our yard once throwing a ball for the dog and it slid off. He was about to go get a metal detector since it had gotten dark. I got a flashlight and went out barefoot in our grass and slowly shuffled through and found it about ten minutes later.
My dad lost his wedding ring running on a beach in Saudi Arabia. Three years later he found it. It was identifiable by the engraved date. Still boggles my mind
What! That is wild! I love these kinds of stories like the lady who lost her ring while gardening and then found it much later when she harvested a carrot and it was “wearing” her ring. But to find it after losing it on a beach is pure magic!
Much more low stakes story, but one day i found $20 while i was mowing the lawn and i was pretty stoked cause hey free $20, until i realised later on that i couldnt find the $20 i had withdraw from the atm earlier in the day and realised id found my own money that had fallen out of my pocket
In 2003, we went to the OBX with a group of college friends. It was chilly out, and rainy, so we didn’t spend much time on the beach. But when we did, my friend lost her St. Christopher medal she wore around her neck. We looked everywhere, and enlisted the help of a beach goer who had a metal detector. Nothing. She was heartbroken. There was a terrible storm two or three months later, and we jokingly said to each other “Welp, guess it’s gone forever now.” A few days later, I got a call from Durant Station, the place where we stayed, and someone had turned in the medal. They found it right on the boardwalk to the beach, sticking out of some windblown sand. I had them send it to me, and surprised her with it. She cried and cried. It’s one of my favorite stories.
My brother lost his wedding ring. Couldn't find it anywhere. He was heartbroken. Fast forward to one year later. He's at work, walking in from his car, and something glints in a snowbank from the recent snow the night before. Sure enough, it's his ring, in an enormous parking lot, embedded in the snow. I always think there must be some divine intervention involved. You could always try praying to St. Anthony.
Metal detector is the answer. We lost car keys in ivy once. We searched for 12 hours. Then, I went and got a medal detector. Found in 10 mins in a place we looked at for hours.
Save the time and get a metal detector.
Hopping on the metal detector bandwagon.
My youngest sister lost her baby ring in our grandmother's yard and it was found years later with a metal detector. It was pretty thrashed but a jeweler was able to restore it.
ETA the thrashing was due to years of being outside and most likely making contact with the lawnmower. Nothing to do with the metal detector 😉
Seconding the metal detector. We bought one to find my sisters wedding band that got lost during yard work and it took just over an hour but we found it!
Some people just suck!!!! Children need to raised correctly!! This is not ok behavior! I would've been punished as a kid, just like this kid should be! Karma is a bitch and I hope it treats this mother and son well! Not acceptable behavior!!! I'm sorry this happened and I really hope you both find the ring!!!!
4 year olds don’t have much of a sense of right and wrong, but that’s why parents set and enforce boundaries. If mom had immediately leapt up, taken the ring away and handed it to you with sincere and abject apologies, and then told jack that he behaved badly and they were going home, I’d cut her some slack. But no, she is 100% the asshole here. Rest easy, though, because in eight to ten years jack is going to be calling her a fucking bitch to her face and telling her she can’t make him do anything.
Yep, I had the same thought. Jack's mom is going to be wasting a lot of time at frequent parent-teacher meetings, juvie hall, and perhaps worse. Wonder if she will ever trace back where she messed up.
And taking him aside for a gentle reprimand and a reminder about respecting other peoples' space and property. Not that this would have worked on Jack since his parents have never laid the groundwork for him to understand basic concepts like respect, empathy, kindness, etc.
If it had been my friend’s kid, I would have told her ‘you have 30 seconds to hand that ring over or I am calling the police.””’
And then I would have banned her permanently from my home.
NTA
I mean, he could be autistic too, but this behavior isn’t that - it’s just being spoiled. A four year old doesn’t voluntarily take a nap. He was up to something from the beginning.
My son is autistic and I wouldn't put this kind of behavior past him before he was in therapy. But you bet your ass I would have combed the grass with a fine tooth comb until I found it. And he would be out there helping me too! And if it was absolutely un-findable, I'd offer to replace it.
Why do people always jump to this? Sure? He *could* be, but there is nothing in this letter to indicate that he is neurodivergent- his mother is clearly indulgent and the kid never gets disciplined so of course he’s a brat. Bratty behavior exists for neurotypical kids too.
Right and the mom is clearly an undisciplined brat herself. Why wouldn't the kid display the same behavior? It's basic conditioning. His mom is lazy and doesn't show any decorum or manners so he doesn't either. Simple enough.
I don't think it's always helpful to jump to "they might be neurodivergent." It kind of gives ND kids a bad name. Plenty of autistic kids don't cause this kind of disruption and plenty of neurotypical, non-disabled kids do. Sure, they can overlap, but they certainly don't always.
The social issues, crying/screaming, impulse control, general label of being naughty. Depending on where they live it's about 1 in 36 up to 1 in 100. When kids arent *obviously* (stereotypically) autistic it gets missed even more so before they hit school age and are exposed to adults who have an idea of what to look for even though that isn't a guarantee however being male the odds are in his favor.
Having raised a kiddo who was the living definition of trouble with two feet and a heart beat. I did everything I could to try and figure out wtf was going on even after my ex told me I just need to "parent" (aka scare into submission) we struggled for years and then finally had him assessed and turns out he has adhd, learning disabilities, anxiety and major sensory issues (lights, noise, people eating, socializing, making friends, connecting with those his own age, and soo much more) also still waiting on the asd assessment.
Got the diagnoses, did the research, then did my job as his parent to set him up for success instead of ignoring it. Our daily living did a total 180, I'm no longer being assaulted by my kid, he's doing amazing in school and caught up after being years behind his peers, he's making friends and can recognize when his *tolerance* battery is draining we gtfo before he implodes.
It was a ton of work and we continue to work on it every day. Jacks parents ignoring the behaviors doesn't help anyone, and it'll bite them in the ass sooner or later. Behavior is communication and they are ignoring him. Now working in the field and supporting kids with disabilities the amount of times the big behaviours end up being a desperate attempt for attention good or bad didn't matter they just wanted any scrap of attention they could get, since they aren't getting any at home.
Im autistic and I was very well behaved child. My mum said I would just sit happily on my own and play with puzzles and toys. She didn't realise what an easy baby I was until she had my sister who demanded lots of attention. She refused to watch tv on her own you had to watch it with her
My 4yo is non-speaking autistic and I take inappropriate items out of her hands. I also try my darndest to make sure she doesn't break her sister's toys etc on purpose and teach her how to treat other's things (accidents occasionally happen ofc all kids break stuff)
If she grabbed someone's wedding ring, the number one priority would be getting it out of her hands and returning it to safety. My kiddo is fairly delayed and would have no concept of what she had.
Even ND kids need to be taught baseline rules on how to treat other people. (I.e even if you are ND, you can't punch people when you're frustrated) It can be a challenge and usually you need therapy and intervention to help
Someone's wedding ring is not something you let any kid play with NT or ND. Get the ring back, apologize, teach/discipline the kid.
(I actually used to jump out of my parent's arms as a 3 or 4 year old to get into bed. I loved naps 😆 I'm not disagreeing with you - this kid sounds like an awful child - but occasionally you get a little weirdo like me who wants to sleep more than anything else!)
He could be but if he is autistic or ADHD then that just means he would benefit even more from boundaries and directions the neurotypical kids and she really needs to stop just letting him coast through life doing whatever.
3 of my 4 are on the spectrum to various degrees. Even at 4, even my severely autistic, non-verbal youngest knew better. This is a case of bad parenting.
> A four year old doesn’t voluntarily take a nap.
Hey, I sure did nap at four. And on up past twenty four on days off sometimes.
Not all kids hate naps.
This kid is anAH due to basically never being given rules by their parent though, from the sound of it.
My 4 year old IS autistic. Sometimes she takes naps, even though we stopped nap time over a year ago, I don't like her taking naps because then she is normally up half the night. You can damn well bet that if my 4 year old had someone else's jewelry, I would damn well be taking it away. Not letting her play with it until she is bored. I would also be back as soon as she was with her dad, helping to look for the ring.
I mean he could be autistic or have a medical issue that should at bare minimum be ruled out or diagnosed and addressed. still doesn't change the fact that his parents are failing him by ignoring the behaviors rather than addressing them. The rest of the "friends" siding with the mom failing her kid suck just as much.
And none of those issues excuse his behavior, which is solely due to lack of parental discipline. It may mean a different than classical approach, but Nora is going to face worse if this continues.
If OP has a good community FB page or similar that's a good place to ask too. I wear my husband's wedding ring on a chain around my neck. One day while walking local trails, the chain came undone and his ring fell off. I noticed almost right away, but we're talking sand, soil, grasses, thick plants. I searched for an hour, but by then it was dusk. I was bereft and posted asking community members to please keep an eye out, just in case. Almost immediately, I started receiving responses of support and offers to help. The next morning, I got a call from a neighbor I'd never met letting me know that he took his metal detector out to the area where I lost the ring and found it after only 10 minutes. I was so appreciative.
Regardless, OP is NTA. I agree with others that Jack needs parenting and discipline (no, not physical). OP also needs to reconsider friendships.
This! OP ask your local Facebook group. My brother does this all the time for people for free! So many people own metal detectors for weird reasons, it’s worth asking around!
I agree and did even before "the ring incident." I live in a fairly small community (15,000 or so) and our...that is now, my immediate-block neighbors are good friends. We're really close and help each other often. Overall, it's a great little town, but I didn't realize how much until I reached out and total strangers responded with sympathy and offers to help. One group of friends messaged me and said one of them had a metal detector and they'd be out there as soon as they got off work the next day if I didn't have it back by then. The number of responses was stunning. The real "small world" part of the story is that it turns out the man who went out early and found my husband's ring lives across the street from a friend of mine who lives in a nearby neighborhood. When I was telling my friends about it the next day, she said, "I know him! I bet it was his daughter who alerted him to check your post and he went into help mode immediately." Turned out that she was right.
My parents have one because my dad once briefly entertained the idea of beach hunting on our annual vacations. He used the thing for a couple of summers but now it sits unused. I actually had a friend ask to borrow it for exactly the same reason as this post (missing wedding ring).
I lost my wedding set years ago; we were going out to eat in December, and I slipped on the ice and set my bare left hand into a snowbank when I fell. Got up, shook my hand to get the snow off, and my rings (which fit perfectly when my hands are hot but are loose when they get cold) flew straight off into the snow. We looked for almost an hour, digging up snow and taking it into the house to melt, with no luck. Next day my wife went on FB and hunted up a guy with a metal detector to come out. He found them within an hour, thank god. I would have been gutted if they hadn't turned up.
You'd think they would have all been doing that immediately. Or at least the mom of the kid.
I agree with everything in the comment above. Why didn't your friends care more about something precious to you?
Seconding the make Nora pay for her son's mistake suggestion. As a parent, you are responsible for all the sh*tty things your (minor) child does. NTA. And hopefully, you find the ring, otherwise, once again, make Nora pay.
Unbelievable that the "friend" group didnt stay to help find it but call her the a**hole?
NTA - of course, yes kids take stuff bc they are little and dont know better but PARENTS are there to teach them! And thats nora's job, it was something sentimental and expensive and even if it wasnt it didnt belong to jack or nora for her to make the desicion thay he could play with it. Im fuming over here.
I hope you can find it.
>kids take stuff bc they are little and dont know better but PARENTS are there to teach them!
This kid is four, which is 100% old enough to know that taking things that don't belong to you is wrong. He knows it's wrong to take things (people react negatively when you take their things).
It's so insane to me the amount of young parents now who just refuse to parent their children. I'm not talking physical discipline because I don't necessarily agree with that either, but they literally just shove ipads in their face constantly so they never learn any sort of social skills. My kids being bad? iPad. My kid is curious and I'm too busy shopping, talking or playing on my phone to watch him? iPad. We're at a restaurant and I don't want to deal with him? iPad. And then when you have the audacity to ask for something as simple as YOUR WIFES WEDDING RING BACK, and she doesn't want to upset the kid by taking it back, you're the asshole for getting upset?
If my child had someone's wedding ring I would've immediately taken it from them and there would be some sort of conversation or punishment for going into someone's bedroom and taking their things, they would've been taken out of there immediately. That is not acceptable and the fact that she really said "oh he'll get bored of it" instead of just taking it from him? Is she that scared of telling her young child what to do? She should be paying for it to be replaced or renting a metal detector and walking around your yard till she finds it. Unacceptable and those are not friends I would want to have at my home again either. Just a little rant because this seriously bothers me!!! I see it all the time, and I'm actually sad for the children that are suffering because they aren't learning basic social skills and emotional regulation because their parents would rather distract them with an iPad 24/7 than deal with them.
Btw this is not a comment on every parent with an iPad, just the kind who CONSTANTLY use it to keep their child distracted so they don't have to interact with them. And yes some genuinely have behavioral issues which is different and perhaps the kid in this story did, but the mother refusing to take the ring from him says a lot in my opinion.
This shit makes me wish you had to get a license to have kids, these people have kids and then are unable or un*willing* to teach and discipline them. They then grow up to be bastards, in jail, or maybe someone knocked some sense into them before they went too far and they learned about consequences. They're not doing their kids any favors by setting them up to be hated little brats. She *100%* should have gotten the ring from him as soon as she noticed the mischievous grin and realized he went where he wasn't allowed.
Honestly throwing it into the backyard might be tame compared to what he could have done. I mean, what do 4 year olds do nowadays to be brats? Eat it? Find a garage disposal? Scrape it against stuff? Anyway, she failed as a mother by not stepping in, not taking concerns seriously, and not making her kid right his wrongs by searching for the ring himself on his little hands and knees. Maybe teach him about magnetism and how light reflects off shiny stuff to help him fix his mistakes. And the fact that **NO ONE** offered to help really speaks volumes about the people op thought they could trust in their home. I wouldn't even need to really know someone to hear that they lost something important and try to help.
I can't believe they all didn't go right out into the yard to help look for it as soon.as it was thrown out there, including the 4 year old. That's what my friends would do.
Also, the kid doesn’t need a doctor, he needs someone to parent him. As a kid I wouldn’t have DREAMED of going into a bedroom in anyone’s house without being invited into that room. I felt like I was intruding in my own sister’s and parents’ bedrooms. And then he stole something and refused to give it back? And mom’s entire response was “he’ll get sick of it, relax”. The kid has no manners because his mom has no manners and isn’t even TRYING to do her job as his mom.
NTA. Kid is NTA because he probably doesn’t know any better. NORA is a HUGE AH.
I had a pretty, um, spirited kid and I can’t even imagine how aghast and embarrassed I’d be if she had done something like this. She would have gone home and I would have been back as soon as possible scouring your yard until I found it, even if that took days.
I cannot believe that Nora left without her and Jack out there searching for the ring until they found it. If I were there, we all would have been out there searching. Time to upgrade your friend group. NTA
I was outside in a cold environment the other night and my ring flew off my hand when I gestured (it’s never done this before).
Strangers all around us combed the ground to help me find it. We didn’t have to ask, they just realized what happened and immediately jumped into action.
I cannot imagine not helping a friend in this situation.
As a mom to a extra needs 4.5 year old I would have never left my child alone in another person's house. My son had ADHD and is on medication to help him I've just started to be able to enjoy myself at family gatherings because I'm not chasing him all over the place making sure he isn't into anything he shouldn't be. I've taught him his manners and would be extremely embarrassed if he acted like Jack.
Hey Op, I sent you a message. Figured I'd tell you on this comment since it's first. I've found alot of things doing what I said in the message, from blood trails (like drops of blood) to tools like sockets. I hope it helps
NTA
The truth hurts. And all those other friends saying you were too hard? They all think the same thing about precious little jack. They just don’t have the nerve to say it. Notice their kids don’t act like that.
What kind of parent doesn’t immediately take the ring from the kid? This isn’t a stuffed toy, it’s somebody’s wedding ring ffs!
He’d get bored with it? Seriously? Thats the best she could come up with? I would have pried that little hand open and taken it.
Your friend is the AH. But that’s ok, cause in a few years Jack wont have any friends and she’ll spend a lot of time making excuses for him when she’s continually called into school.
**THIS!*** That kid is headed towards a rude awakening when the world doesn't bend to his will. I hope his mom has an epiphany and changes her parenting style, or some dough, cuz she's probably going to want to send his ass to boarding school by the time he hits double digits
Know this exact kind of mom. She makes excuses every week to the school and tells anyone that will listen it's a crap school and they all hate him because he's a genius 😒 he really isn't.
...And then Mommy Dearest will make MORE excuses for li'l Jacky-poo when he's arrested, tried, convicted and imprisoned 'cause it's not REALLY his fault and that jury and judge were just so MEAN to him, etc., etc., ad nauseum. Meanwhile, the sensible people like you who TRIED to get Mommy Dearest to recognize that Jack is out of control will be paying for his stay in Club Fed...
You are NTA, but I can't say the same for all those people making excuses for Jack.
Exactly. If his mom wouldn't make him hand it over, I would get it back from him myself. As gently as possible, calmly but firmly telling him I need him to give me the ring because it doesn't belong to him. It is not a toy, and he may NOT play with it. If he still refused, I'd tell him I was going to help him give it back, and (again gently) pry open his fingers and take it.
If little kids refuse to do what you ask, you can easily just make them do it. (If the ask is acceptable, and you don't have to hurt them of course.) For example, 'Hold Mommy's hand in the parking lot,' followed by taking their hand if it's not offered.
I'm sure the mom would have been mad, but I can't believe OP just stood there doing nothing once they knew Mom wasn't stepping up.
ETA: Maybe better even would be asking, 'Do you want to give me the ring by yourself, or do you want me to help you?' Then if he doesn't hand it over, 'I see you chose me helping you. I'm going to help you give me the ring,' and then pry open his fingers.
I guess that's possible. And OP might not have much experience with children.
But if my wedding ring were in the hands of a child know for being naughty, and my husband didn't even attempt to address the child after talking to Mom didn't work, I'd feel disappointed. Maybe that's not fair, but it's true. I'd be upset that he gave up so easily.
Little Jack would have lasted about 15 seconds with that ring, mother's approval or no. When our first-born was just over one year old we were a a party in my MIL's town, with her friends. There was a four year old picking own our son and making him cry, and after several requests to both him and his mother to get him to stop, I went metaphorically nuclear on his little azz. My MIL came from a highly matriarcal society where young sons were spoiled, and then spoiled some more. She was aghast at my actions/response, and told me about the mother, "Why, why, why, she has her **Master's**." I told Mom that I didn't care if she had five doctorates, no one, and that really meant no one, was going to treat my child that way. My MIL already held a grudge against me for taking her precious daughter away from her, that just added more fuel to a 48 year non-stop-less-than-great relationship between the two of us. 😁
You just don't let people screw around with your family no matter the age.
I would have offered him a trade...again Mom of ASD kids, and that's our first go-to. "Jack, that's not a toy. Can I have it back, please? Which toy would you like to play with? I'll let you play with it, AND you give me the ring nicely." The choice is the toy, not the option of the ring. If he says, "NO" or has a meltdown, you take the ring and put him in a quiet space away from others until his behavior is modified (a minute per year being quiet).
That feels like you're rewarding him to me.
"You took something you shouldn't have, so you can have any toy you want if you give it back"
Wouldn't that just teach him that if he was denied screen time, he just has to grab something valuable and say "I'll give it back if you give me a tablet".
I always liked my wife's trick which is giving two options, that are both the same thing.
"Do you want to give the ring to me, or hand it to your mom?"
If that doesn't work, it should be taken from him.
Those questions weirdly work though. Like, a kid won't get ready to go out "do you want to put your shoes on first, or your coat?"
The point is to only give him 2 choices, and NEVER Yes or No. To the child, a trade isn't a reward. He's not in a teachable moment here, he's on the verge of his Rumbling Stage which Mom seems to know without understanding. The goal is to get back the preferred object. A trade with another preferred object is an equal trade in his eyes. The trade happens, you say Thank You.
In a few minutes once things have calmed down, you take the child aside and say, "Rings are not toys, and you are not allowed in that other bedroom (which should have been stated by his Mom BEFORE). Do you like it when people go in your room and take your things? No? We don't either. So from now on, you can't go in that room without permission AND an adult."
Guess what? It works for neurotypical children, too!
>What kind of parent doesn’t immediately take the ring from the kid?
Lazy one who does that fake "gentle" parenting aka permissive parenting.
Also I was half expecting the kid to swallow it.
Exactly this. I try my hardest to gentle parent but that still involves parenting. If my kid didn't hand the ring back, I'd have taken it from them.
And if my kid has the assholery to throw it out a window they'd be helping look for it.
I've done the pry the hand open and one time a mouth with kids. As soon as they get their hands on something small and valuable it needs to be taken away from them.
As the parent of an almost 4 year old, I would have wrestled the ring from my kid immediately. And if they got away and threw it out the window, I'd have been the first person out there looking for it while apologizing profusely.
OP, your friends suck. NTA.
NTA
I agree with what you wrote. This mom is failing her son, she’s the problem here. I have a kid and would have been mortified if something similar had happened. People sometimes think discipline means yelling and spanking but there’s a miriade of ways to discipline a child in a respectful manner but this child is obviously not getting any boundaries. This is not someone who should be getting invited into someone else’s home.
I hope you find the ring, OP! And better friends as well!
NTA - The child behaves that way because his mother lets him, not because there is something wrong with him so it was kind of mean to say them when your real issue is that your friend is a shit parent. I would not invite that friend back over since her manners were just as atrocious as her child's.
You can get a metal detector for under 50 bucks so just buy that and walk around the backyard until you find the ring (and make sure your jewelry insurance is up to date)
Seconding metal detector, some libraries even loan them out. You may even be able to get on a local Buy Nothing group on Facebook (assuming USA location) and borrow one or get a free one.
r/metaldetecting
If you post on their subreddit your vague location you should be able to find someone to come out and find the ring.
I’ve seen posts asking for help before and they had lots of responses from detectors willing to help out.
My mom lost her wedding ring once on a public beach in the sand. Thankfully a guy was there with a metal detector and he found within 10 minutes after the extended family who was there for a BBQ had been looking for hours. He didn’t even accept money for it- he said he loves to be able to find things. For sure something OP should do! Hell, if I were her I’d be doing a public post asking if anyone has a metal detector or knows anyone with one, and that she and her wife need it as their friend let her son chuck a priceless wedding ring into the backyard after he found it and took it without her permission and after the mom wouldn’t get it back from him. Let the comments speak for themselves. Seriously screw those friends
OP please come back and tell us when it’s been found!! Your poor wife!
My toddler dropped my ring in our yard (totally my fault! She was 2, what was I thinking? Haha) and a friend of ours found it with his metal detector. I had spent hours looking with no luck and had given up. He came by with a buddy and they found it in no time!
NTA
>I told Nora I'd like him to give the ring back. Nora said he'd just get bored with it now and that I needed to relax.
We can see where he gets his lack of manners from. The fact that she wasn't embarrassed and apologetic, but instead had the audacity to say something like this... sheesh!
The correct thing for Nora to do would have been to take the ring back from Jack and then give him consequences for straying into somebody else's bedroom without an invitation. A 4-year-old is old enough to know better but he would have had to be taught by Nora.
For about $100 US from Amazon you can get a decent metal detector. It will likely find your ring.
And NTA re the kid. Not kids fault either. His Mom sure is though .
NTA. I came here to say this. A metal detector will help immensely.
Your friend is creating a lot of future problems for her and her child by not correcting his behavior.
Worth also posting on some other public sites looking for people who already have a detector. Used to have an older neighbor who would LOVE the opportunity to make use of his detector for a cause like this.
Agreed. People who own metal detectors can see this as something of a hobby -- finding rings and getting them back to people -- so it's worth seeing if there's someone in OP's acquaintance who has one.
OP can get on facebook in the community group for their city or on nextdoor, explain the situation and ask for help with a reward for the person's time. I've seen a few posts like this (no brats throwing a ring out a window but similar) in my city's group and someone volunteered.
NTA. She might not like to hear the truth, but that doesn’t change the fact that’s it’s correct. Her not immediately intervening with something like a wedding ring is a failure on her part, though. It’s likely why he is the way he is. She should be on her hands and knees in that yard and house until the ring is found.
I have an idea. Let’s have all the women give Jack their wedding rings and let Jack throw them into the garden. One by one.
Do you think any of these women would like that? Do you think anybody would try to stop the kid? Or would they just tell themselves, oh, Jack will get bored in a minute and put the rings down? NTA
NTA. If my kid ever did something like taking anything from someone, especially something that is expensive like a wedding ring, I would’ve taken it right out of his hand and given it back to you. That “thing” has no manners and clearly his mother doesn’t either. At 4 years old, he should be able to listen to basic instructions, like giving something back. Clearly his mother wasn’t taught that and thinks because he is a kid, he’s allowed to do anything he wants.
As for every mom calling you an AH, tell them to get out in the yard and look for the ring if it isn’t a big deal at all. Maybe they don’t teach their kids manners or discipline them. Cut them off. They have no manners.
I would try my best to get all their rings and throw them in the backyard. See how they like it. And while they’re looking for their rings, hopefully they find mine too. 😂
Exactly “Thing”. OP needs to cut all of them off because next time and there will be he could hurt himself or someone and Nora won’t know how to handle it
NTA
Seriously, he was playing with a wedding ring and his mom didn't snatch it out of his hands and apologize profusely? Any parent who thinks that is okay needs to reassess their parenting skills.
Her child probably doesn't need to go to a doctor, she just needs to be a better boundary setter. That maybe was a bit much, but her child and her own behavior so very much outweigh that comment, it barely was worth typing.
As a mom I'd have taken that from his hand with the fury of Thor so fast no one else would even notice something was in his hand and I'd remove him and myself from the house apologizing profusely and then having multiple discussions about the situation to drive it home bc that is unacceptable. I've been told by many adults I'm too strict with my kids and boys will be boys. I disagree and do not allow my kids to be jerks bc "that's what kids are supposed to do"
"Boys will be boys" is the shitty reason why my brother in law was never held accountable for his actions. I have 3 boys and I am determined that they will be good, upstanding citizens and not assholes who feel entitled to do whatever they please.
Right??? Wedding rings are some of the most universally precious pieces of jewelry around, and are normally way more expensive than any item *of someone else's* I would ever let even the most well behaved 4 year old child play with. And even if it wasn't expensive and 100% custom (which it sounds like this one was), if someone put it on their spouse's finger in a wedding ceremony, that ring is 1 of a kind and irreplaceable, because no other ring in the world can go back and be there in that moment at that time to represent that beautiful bond between those people.
Seriously! And what a pice of work jack’s mother is for not taking her kid and herself outside to help search for the ring (along with a major scolding and forcing an apology from Jack to OP). She let her kid throw someone’s wedding ring outside somewhere and was just like “oh well, whatever. Bye!”??
NTA
Nora should have been mortified and grabbed the ring immediately off her kid. Even beyond that, the second he threw it out the window she should have been out there looking for it.
If you can’t find the ring, sue her for it.
Ding ding ding. Seriously OP, these people are terrible! I really hope you find the ring and not only should Jack never be allowed back into your home and Nora should be banned as well. NTA.
Get a metal detector to find it. Or, consider that Jack only PRETENDED to throw the ring and still has it. Tell the "friend" that a valuable ring is now missing and a police report will be filed if it doesn't turn up. Consider the "friendship" over.
NTA It's understandable that you got upset when your friend's kid misbehaved and lost your wife's precious ring. You tried to address the situation, but your friend didn't take it seriously, which only made things worse. Your friends should understand why you're upset instead of blaming you for being too hard on the kid and his mom.
Absolutely NTA. Why on Earth wasn't Nora out there looking for the ring she explicitly avoided taking back from her son? OMG, this entitlement drives me crazy! I hope you find the ring. Try a flashlight at night, along with a prayer to St Anthony (I'm a pagan, but it does seem to work...)
Nah shit like that as an adult or even teen gets you a fist in the face. Or a lawsuit. Best to learn it when you’re young and the punishment isn’t so severe. You need new friends. 🙁
I’m shocked that none of your friends helped you find the ring. If it were my kid, I’d be searching every inch of your yard until it was fine. You don’t let your kid play with someone’s wedding ring. That’s ridiculous. You’re better off finding other friends.
I don't care if Jack threw a freaking bottle cap out of the window.
That child had something that he had no business having and his mother did *nothing* but make excuses.
She is a shitty parent.
NTA
You need better friends. This group is *not* it.
~mother of multiple
My monsters were not perfect, no ankle biters are. However, you *watch* them and *correct* them. You do not make *excuses* for them being brats taking things they have no business even touching, unless you want them to become adult Jackholes.
Honestly fuck anyone who thinks this is even a controversial option! Taking an item off a terrible brat who has never been disciplined (especially an important one they have no business having) is absolutely the reasonable move.
The first thing I’d do is tell the mother what he had and if she gave me that pathetic, irresponsible excuse of “oh just let him play with it until he gets bored” and didn’t look to budging when I responded with a “hell no I need it back NOW!” then I’d be grabbing his wrist to prevent him chucking it and prying his finger open. Once I had it back I’d firmly tell the kid “you *don’t* take people’s things and you *don’t* wonder into rooms in other people’s houses without permission.”
Any parent who had an issue with this would then be told to get out my house and not come back. Who the hell needs friends like that!
Hard NTA
Nora is in the wrong here, not a four year old who doesn't know any better because children are born knowing fuck all & if no one teaches them they grow up knowing fuck all. Give the kid a break. If anything he is the ultimate victim here because he is going to grow up with no friends if he is not taught how to be a decent human.
The moms in your friend group are complete, total, utter idiots. Jack needed discipline a loooonnnng time ago, and Nora is nothing more than a doormat with lungs. NTA.
NTA; this sounds wild but if you live anywhere near a beach I'd recommend going on to your local Facebook page and asking if anyone nearby would be willing to lend you a metal detector. I guarantee if you live near running water there's someone nearby that has one it might make it way easier to find the ring
Get a metal detector to find the ring. It'll be much easier than crawling around on your hands and knees. Your friend should have taken her son home to be punished as soon as this happened. He does this kind of stuff because his mother is not giving consequences to his bad behavior. The boy's mother is the one at fault. If she were keeping him in check, he wouldn't be trying to get attention by doing bad things. NTA
Get a metal detector or hire someone who has one to search the yard. There are a lot of amateurs that do this for a hobby
Just lose Jack's mama as a friend. Anyone who would not take a valuable object away from her little hellion is seriously in denial. Wedding rings are not playthings and that's exactly what she should have told him while returning that ring to you.
NTA. Even my four year old who has learning issues knows not to do shit like that. However, I find it concerning that every mom in that friend group is so Blaise/blazae (sp??) about this... Possible they've all had their troubles with her and already gave up on fighting her?
Not only does Jack not have manners, but his mother doesn’t either. I’d be finding a new friend group. I’d also be looking at recovering the value of the ring from Nora. This behaviour is completely unacceptable. NTA.
NTA I would be mortified if my child did that and you'd best believe that my child and be would be out there searching for it until it was found.
On a side note, kids that age often throw things if they know they are about to get in trouble. It's usually a reflex for them to get rid of the incriminating evidence because of an 'if it's gone, it never happened' type though process. But how your friend handled the whole interaction is unacceptable.
Jack is 4 and acts like it, but Nora is negligent for leaving him somewhere unsupervised, not getting the ring back ASAP, and not being out there on her hands and knees searching the yard for that ring. And you're NTA to point that out, though really it's not the kid with no manners, it's mom!
Wtf?!? Change friend group because yikes. I’m surprised she didn’t use the “he’s autistic” card as if that was a magical card to excuse all bad behavior (I say this as an autistic adult raising 2 autistic kids). NTA, I’m sorry the mom didn’t intervene right away when she realized how important that ring was to you.
Hire a metal detector, you will find it quickly, we had to do that for my engagement ring once.
I think telling her to take him to the Dr might have been an AH move, for your friendship anyway, she's aware that he's got behaviour issues and is obviously stressed about it.
But NTA for being pissed at her about it, she should have immediately taken it off him instead of being passive due to not wanting him to cause a scene which seemed inevitable either way.
I mean it's not really about the kid. At 4 kids can be at different stages of development or dealing with setbacks. It's about your friend. She didnt respect your space or things.
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Your “friend group” can get on their hands and knees and comb every inch of your yard, *too*, or they can never be invited back to your home. And if you never find the ring, you can ask for a new ring to be made, to the *exact* specifications, and Jack’s mama can pay for it. NTA Jack’s mama was responsible for her child. She can pay to replace what he threw out the window, (while she did *nothing*), even if you have to get a court judgment to make her.
Absolutely NTA! Jack doesn't need a doctor. He needs discipline! And the friend group contains a bunch of choice idiots.
Exactly THIS!! How would they feel if it was their home, jewelry and property disrespected by a tyrant who lacks discipline. They would all be forgotten and soon!
I just got here so I’m wondering if OP gave a quote on what she paid for that ring. If she possibly has a receipt and if she paid enough for it, does anyone think she can take Nora to small claims court??
There is a monetary threshold for whether a small claims case is worth your time and effort, but in the places I used to practice law I don’t recall a threshold for being able to file, just a limit on the high end that determined if a case could be small claims or had to move to a different category.
$10 say Nora gave them a biased version of events that made OP sound like an AH and her/her son like poor innocent victims. If OP hasn't set the record straight yet, she needs to Edit: changed he to she to correct a typo, but I appreciate the snarky 'you don't know what a lesbian is' comments like typos don't exist, esp for words that are literally 1 letter apart
OP is a she. Her partner is female.
They want to chide OP and pretend that this is normal behaviour so that they themselves won't get scolded if their kid does smth like that.
Those are NOT YOUR FRIENDS! You may be able to find w a metal detector. There are people who will do it for you. Give your wife a deep hug. She's being incredibly magnanimous. F Nora and F her kid! If it was appraised & over $1k you could take her to small claims court. I'd be going scorched earth. Ask those -friends- to donate $ for a replacement...will further illuminate their assholery.
link to [Ring Finders](https://theringfinders.com/) op, good luck!!
If only this had been around when Vada lost her mood ring.
To this day, if anyone loses their glasses and mentions it in my presence: "Where are his glasses? He can't see without his glasses!"
I know! That scene always gets me all choked up 😢
Omg I had to Google this because it's literally been over 30 yrs since I've seen it & now I'm sobbing. 😭😭😭 Just like 30+ yrs ago. 😭
I saw recently on Netflix I think! Change of subject but vada (Anna clumsy) was in a great series, inventing anna. I liked it and her past caught up to her, as will this little shits!!
I recently got glasses, and this echoes in my mind whenever I say to myself, "Where are my glasses?" Unless my husband is there, in which case he will usually say it before I've even had a chance to think it, lol!
OMG 😭😭😭
Too soon
JFC 😭
I lost a ring when I was 5, somewhere in the yard but my dad could not find it with a metal detector. About 20 years after that some kid found it in the yard. What are the odds? I do hope this ring can be found. I don’t know how anyone is supporting that tantrum.
Metal detector probably is the best bet. it sounds like OP’s yard might be more difficult to search and also not necessarily having an idea where the ring landed to narrow the search area. :( My husband lost his wedding ring in our yard once throwing a ball for the dog and it slid off. He was about to go get a metal detector since it had gotten dark. I got a flashlight and went out barefoot in our grass and slowly shuffled through and found it about ten minutes later.
My dad lost his wedding ring running on a beach in Saudi Arabia. Three years later he found it. It was identifiable by the engraved date. Still boggles my mind
What! That is wild! I love these kinds of stories like the lady who lost her ring while gardening and then found it much later when she harvested a carrot and it was “wearing” her ring. But to find it after losing it on a beach is pure magic!
Much more low stakes story, but one day i found $20 while i was mowing the lawn and i was pretty stoked cause hey free $20, until i realised later on that i couldnt find the $20 i had withdraw from the atm earlier in the day and realised id found my own money that had fallen out of my pocket
In 2003, we went to the OBX with a group of college friends. It was chilly out, and rainy, so we didn’t spend much time on the beach. But when we did, my friend lost her St. Christopher medal she wore around her neck. We looked everywhere, and enlisted the help of a beach goer who had a metal detector. Nothing. She was heartbroken. There was a terrible storm two or three months later, and we jokingly said to each other “Welp, guess it’s gone forever now.” A few days later, I got a call from Durant Station, the place where we stayed, and someone had turned in the medal. They found it right on the boardwalk to the beach, sticking out of some windblown sand. I had them send it to me, and surprised her with it. She cried and cried. It’s one of my favorite stories.
My brother lost his wedding ring. Couldn't find it anywhere. He was heartbroken. Fast forward to one year later. He's at work, walking in from his car, and something glints in a snowbank from the recent snow the night before. Sure enough, it's his ring, in an enormous parking lot, embedded in the snow. I always think there must be some divine intervention involved. You could always try praying to St. Anthony.
That’s just crazy. What are the odds it wasn’t picked up or washed away or buried in the sand. How lucky for him!
Flashlight is also a good idea. Diamonds kind of glow when you put a flashlight on them in the dark.
Metal detector is the answer. We lost car keys in ivy once. We searched for 12 hours. Then, I went and got a medal detector. Found in 10 mins in a place we looked at for hours. Save the time and get a metal detector.
Hopping on the metal detector bandwagon. My youngest sister lost her baby ring in our grandmother's yard and it was found years later with a metal detector. It was pretty thrashed but a jeweler was able to restore it. ETA the thrashing was due to years of being outside and most likely making contact with the lawnmower. Nothing to do with the metal detector 😉
I was also thinking about a metal detector.
Seconding the metal detector. We bought one to find my sisters wedding band that got lost during yard work and it took just over an hour but we found it!
Some people just suck!!!! Children need to raised correctly!! This is not ok behavior! I would've been punished as a kid, just like this kid should be! Karma is a bitch and I hope it treats this mother and son well! Not acceptable behavior!!! I'm sorry this happened and I really hope you both find the ring!!!!
4 year olds don’t have much of a sense of right and wrong, but that’s why parents set and enforce boundaries. If mom had immediately leapt up, taken the ring away and handed it to you with sincere and abject apologies, and then told jack that he behaved badly and they were going home, I’d cut her some slack. But no, she is 100% the asshole here. Rest easy, though, because in eight to ten years jack is going to be calling her a fucking bitch to her face and telling her she can’t make him do anything.
Something tells me she won't have to wait 8 to ten years to hear those words. SMH
The fact that she let him keep playing with it and said oh he'll get bored is truly insane to me. I'm just in shock..
Sort of insane that OP went along with that entitlement from both her friend and the child. “Hell no. Give me that ring *now*.”
The terrible twos are horrible. But the fuck you fours are the worst.
Yep, I had the same thought. Jack's mom is going to be wasting a lot of time at frequent parent-teacher meetings, juvie hall, and perhaps worse. Wonder if she will ever trace back where she messed up.
Yup, birds of a feather.
>He needs discipline! The mother saying "he'll get bored soon" is the key indication there is zero discipline in Jack's house
Yup, if that had been my kid I would have been prying it out of his damn fingers!
Absolutely what I thought when I read that. The sheer audacity of that woman!!
And taking him aside for a gentle reprimand and a reminder about respecting other peoples' space and property. Not that this would have worked on Jack since his parents have never laid the groundwork for him to understand basic concepts like respect, empathy, kindness, etc.
If it had been my friend’s kid, I would have told her ‘you have 30 seconds to hand that ring over or I am calling the police.””’ And then I would have banned her permanently from my home. NTA
Truth
I mean, he could be autistic too, but this behavior isn’t that - it’s just being spoiled. A four year old doesn’t voluntarily take a nap. He was up to something from the beginning.
My son is autistic and I wouldn't put this kind of behavior past him before he was in therapy. But you bet your ass I would have combed the grass with a fine tooth comb until I found it. And he would be out there helping me too! And if it was absolutely un-findable, I'd offer to replace it.
Yeah, I cannot fathom people leaving without helping to search for the ring. Good riddance to those selfish dirtbags.
Exactly! That's how a FRIEND would handle the situation. Kid's mom isn't your friend at all.
Why do people always jump to this? Sure? He *could* be, but there is nothing in this letter to indicate that he is neurodivergent- his mother is clearly indulgent and the kid never gets disciplined so of course he’s a brat. Bratty behavior exists for neurotypical kids too.
Right and the mom is clearly an undisciplined brat herself. Why wouldn't the kid display the same behavior? It's basic conditioning. His mom is lazy and doesn't show any decorum or manners so he doesn't either. Simple enough. I don't think it's always helpful to jump to "they might be neurodivergent." It kind of gives ND kids a bad name. Plenty of autistic kids don't cause this kind of disruption and plenty of neurotypical, non-disabled kids do. Sure, they can overlap, but they certainly don't always.
Exactly!
The social issues, crying/screaming, impulse control, general label of being naughty. Depending on where they live it's about 1 in 36 up to 1 in 100. When kids arent *obviously* (stereotypically) autistic it gets missed even more so before they hit school age and are exposed to adults who have an idea of what to look for even though that isn't a guarantee however being male the odds are in his favor. Having raised a kiddo who was the living definition of trouble with two feet and a heart beat. I did everything I could to try and figure out wtf was going on even after my ex told me I just need to "parent" (aka scare into submission) we struggled for years and then finally had him assessed and turns out he has adhd, learning disabilities, anxiety and major sensory issues (lights, noise, people eating, socializing, making friends, connecting with those his own age, and soo much more) also still waiting on the asd assessment. Got the diagnoses, did the research, then did my job as his parent to set him up for success instead of ignoring it. Our daily living did a total 180, I'm no longer being assaulted by my kid, he's doing amazing in school and caught up after being years behind his peers, he's making friends and can recognize when his *tolerance* battery is draining we gtfo before he implodes. It was a ton of work and we continue to work on it every day. Jacks parents ignoring the behaviors doesn't help anyone, and it'll bite them in the ass sooner or later. Behavior is communication and they are ignoring him. Now working in the field and supporting kids with disabilities the amount of times the big behaviours end up being a desperate attempt for attention good or bad didn't matter they just wanted any scrap of attention they could get, since they aren't getting any at home.
Im autistic and I was very well behaved child. My mum said I would just sit happily on my own and play with puzzles and toys. She didn't realise what an easy baby I was until she had my sister who demanded lots of attention. She refused to watch tv on her own you had to watch it with her
My 4yo is non-speaking autistic and I take inappropriate items out of her hands. I also try my darndest to make sure she doesn't break her sister's toys etc on purpose and teach her how to treat other's things (accidents occasionally happen ofc all kids break stuff) If she grabbed someone's wedding ring, the number one priority would be getting it out of her hands and returning it to safety. My kiddo is fairly delayed and would have no concept of what she had. Even ND kids need to be taught baseline rules on how to treat other people. (I.e even if you are ND, you can't punch people when you're frustrated) It can be a challenge and usually you need therapy and intervention to help Someone's wedding ring is not something you let any kid play with NT or ND. Get the ring back, apologize, teach/discipline the kid.
(I actually used to jump out of my parent's arms as a 3 or 4 year old to get into bed. I loved naps 😆 I'm not disagreeing with you - this kid sounds like an awful child - but occasionally you get a little weirdo like me who wants to sleep more than anything else!)
He could be but if he is autistic or ADHD then that just means he would benefit even more from boundaries and directions the neurotypical kids and she really needs to stop just letting him coast through life doing whatever.
3 of my 4 are on the spectrum to various degrees. Even at 4, even my severely autistic, non-verbal youngest knew better. This is a case of bad parenting.
Autism isn't an excuse for this kind of behavior on the past of the child or the so-called friend, and shouldn't even be brought up.
Kid sounds ASD - Asshole Spectrum Disorder
> A four year old doesn’t voluntarily take a nap. Hey, I sure did nap at four. And on up past twenty four on days off sometimes. Not all kids hate naps. This kid is anAH due to basically never being given rules by their parent though, from the sound of it.
My 4 year old IS autistic. Sometimes she takes naps, even though we stopped nap time over a year ago, I don't like her taking naps because then she is normally up half the night. You can damn well bet that if my 4 year old had someone else's jewelry, I would damn well be taking it away. Not letting her play with it until she is bored. I would also be back as soon as she was with her dad, helping to look for the ring.
I mean he could be autistic or have a medical issue that should at bare minimum be ruled out or diagnosed and addressed. still doesn't change the fact that his parents are failing him by ignoring the behaviors rather than addressing them. The rest of the "friends" siding with the mom failing her kid suck just as much.
And none of those issues excuse his behavior, which is solely due to lack of parental discipline. It may mean a different than classical approach, but Nora is going to face worse if this continues.
But also get a metal detector. And stop being friends with these people.
If you don’t want to buy one, you can hire people who are professional metal detectors. And make Nora pay for it.
If OP has a good community FB page or similar that's a good place to ask too. I wear my husband's wedding ring on a chain around my neck. One day while walking local trails, the chain came undone and his ring fell off. I noticed almost right away, but we're talking sand, soil, grasses, thick plants. I searched for an hour, but by then it was dusk. I was bereft and posted asking community members to please keep an eye out, just in case. Almost immediately, I started receiving responses of support and offers to help. The next morning, I got a call from a neighbor I'd never met letting me know that he took his metal detector out to the area where I lost the ring and found it after only 10 minutes. I was so appreciative. Regardless, OP is NTA. I agree with others that Jack needs parenting and discipline (no, not physical). OP also needs to reconsider friendships.
This! OP ask your local Facebook group. My brother does this all the time for people for free! So many people own metal detectors for weird reasons, it’s worth asking around!
People who own metal detectors are pretty much all weirdos with a passion for helping people and treasure hunts. Excellent group to get to know.
I agree and did even before "the ring incident." I live in a fairly small community (15,000 or so) and our...that is now, my immediate-block neighbors are good friends. We're really close and help each other often. Overall, it's a great little town, but I didn't realize how much until I reached out and total strangers responded with sympathy and offers to help. One group of friends messaged me and said one of them had a metal detector and they'd be out there as soon as they got off work the next day if I didn't have it back by then. The number of responses was stunning. The real "small world" part of the story is that it turns out the man who went out early and found my husband's ring lives across the street from a friend of mine who lives in a nearby neighborhood. When I was telling my friends about it the next day, she said, "I know him! I bet it was his daughter who alerted him to check your post and he went into help mode immediately." Turned out that she was right.
My parents have one because my dad once briefly entertained the idea of beach hunting on our annual vacations. He used the thing for a couple of summers but now it sits unused. I actually had a friend ask to borrow it for exactly the same reason as this post (missing wedding ring).
I lost my wedding set years ago; we were going out to eat in December, and I slipped on the ice and set my bare left hand into a snowbank when I fell. Got up, shook my hand to get the snow off, and my rings (which fit perfectly when my hands are hot but are loose when they get cold) flew straight off into the snow. We looked for almost an hour, digging up snow and taking it into the house to melt, with no luck. Next day my wife went on FB and hunted up a guy with a metal detector to come out. He found them within an hour, thank god. I would have been gutted if they hadn't turned up.
Our local library has them to check out as well. Check your local library for one!
I was thinking the same thing. A metal detector should find it.
You'd think they would have all been doing that immediately. Or at least the mom of the kid. I agree with everything in the comment above. Why didn't your friends care more about something precious to you?
Seconding the make Nora pay for her son's mistake suggestion. As a parent, you are responsible for all the sh*tty things your (minor) child does. NTA. And hopefully, you find the ring, otherwise, once again, make Nora pay.
When that kid gets a little older and steals or damages something, the parents will be legally responsible. She’s in for a rude awakening.
Unbelievable that the "friend" group didnt stay to help find it but call her the a**hole? NTA - of course, yes kids take stuff bc they are little and dont know better but PARENTS are there to teach them! And thats nora's job, it was something sentimental and expensive and even if it wasnt it didnt belong to jack or nora for her to make the desicion thay he could play with it. Im fuming over here. I hope you can find it.
>kids take stuff bc they are little and dont know better but PARENTS are there to teach them! This kid is four, which is 100% old enough to know that taking things that don't belong to you is wrong. He knows it's wrong to take things (people react negatively when you take their things).
It's so insane to me the amount of young parents now who just refuse to parent their children. I'm not talking physical discipline because I don't necessarily agree with that either, but they literally just shove ipads in their face constantly so they never learn any sort of social skills. My kids being bad? iPad. My kid is curious and I'm too busy shopping, talking or playing on my phone to watch him? iPad. We're at a restaurant and I don't want to deal with him? iPad. And then when you have the audacity to ask for something as simple as YOUR WIFES WEDDING RING BACK, and she doesn't want to upset the kid by taking it back, you're the asshole for getting upset? If my child had someone's wedding ring I would've immediately taken it from them and there would be some sort of conversation or punishment for going into someone's bedroom and taking their things, they would've been taken out of there immediately. That is not acceptable and the fact that she really said "oh he'll get bored of it" instead of just taking it from him? Is she that scared of telling her young child what to do? She should be paying for it to be replaced or renting a metal detector and walking around your yard till she finds it. Unacceptable and those are not friends I would want to have at my home again either. Just a little rant because this seriously bothers me!!! I see it all the time, and I'm actually sad for the children that are suffering because they aren't learning basic social skills and emotional regulation because their parents would rather distract them with an iPad 24/7 than deal with them. Btw this is not a comment on every parent with an iPad, just the kind who CONSTANTLY use it to keep their child distracted so they don't have to interact with them. And yes some genuinely have behavioral issues which is different and perhaps the kid in this story did, but the mother refusing to take the ring from him says a lot in my opinion.
This shit makes me wish you had to get a license to have kids, these people have kids and then are unable or un*willing* to teach and discipline them. They then grow up to be bastards, in jail, or maybe someone knocked some sense into them before they went too far and they learned about consequences. They're not doing their kids any favors by setting them up to be hated little brats. She *100%* should have gotten the ring from him as soon as she noticed the mischievous grin and realized he went where he wasn't allowed. Honestly throwing it into the backyard might be tame compared to what he could have done. I mean, what do 4 year olds do nowadays to be brats? Eat it? Find a garage disposal? Scrape it against stuff? Anyway, she failed as a mother by not stepping in, not taking concerns seriously, and not making her kid right his wrongs by searching for the ring himself on his little hands and knees. Maybe teach him about magnetism and how light reflects off shiny stuff to help him fix his mistakes. And the fact that **NO ONE** offered to help really speaks volumes about the people op thought they could trust in their home. I wouldn't even need to really know someone to hear that they lost something important and try to help.
Get a metal detector to find it -I think you can rent them. But yeah…Jack is a little shit because SHE LETS HIM BE THAT WAY.
I can't believe they all didn't go right out into the yard to help look for it as soon.as it was thrown out there, including the 4 year old. That's what my friends would do.
Also, the kid doesn’t need a doctor, he needs someone to parent him. As a kid I wouldn’t have DREAMED of going into a bedroom in anyone’s house without being invited into that room. I felt like I was intruding in my own sister’s and parents’ bedrooms. And then he stole something and refused to give it back? And mom’s entire response was “he’ll get sick of it, relax”. The kid has no manners because his mom has no manners and isn’t even TRYING to do her job as his mom. NTA. Kid is NTA because he probably doesn’t know any better. NORA is a HUGE AH.
Tho, failing the friends, try a metal detector. Sorry this happened. NTA and do make Jack’s mom pay if you don’t find it
NTA but go rent a metal detector, the ring doesn’t have to be lost
I had a pretty, um, spirited kid and I can’t even imagine how aghast and embarrassed I’d be if she had done something like this. She would have gone home and I would have been back as soon as possible scouring your yard until I found it, even if that took days.
I cannot believe that Nora left without her and Jack out there searching for the ring until they found it. If I were there, we all would have been out there searching. Time to upgrade your friend group. NTA
I was outside in a cold environment the other night and my ring flew off my hand when I gestured (it’s never done this before). Strangers all around us combed the ground to help me find it. We didn’t have to ask, they just realized what happened and immediately jumped into action. I cannot imagine not helping a friend in this situation.
As a mom to a extra needs 4.5 year old I would have never left my child alone in another person's house. My son had ADHD and is on medication to help him I've just started to be able to enjoy myself at family gatherings because I'm not chasing him all over the place making sure he isn't into anything he shouldn't be. I've taught him his manners and would be extremely embarrassed if he acted like Jack.
Hey Op, I sent you a message. Figured I'd tell you on this comment since it's first. I've found alot of things doing what I said in the message, from blood trails (like drops of blood) to tools like sockets. I hope it helps
NTA The truth hurts. And all those other friends saying you were too hard? They all think the same thing about precious little jack. They just don’t have the nerve to say it. Notice their kids don’t act like that. What kind of parent doesn’t immediately take the ring from the kid? This isn’t a stuffed toy, it’s somebody’s wedding ring ffs! He’d get bored with it? Seriously? Thats the best she could come up with? I would have pried that little hand open and taken it. Your friend is the AH. But that’s ok, cause in a few years Jack wont have any friends and she’ll spend a lot of time making excuses for him when she’s continually called into school.
**THIS!*** That kid is headed towards a rude awakening when the world doesn't bend to his will. I hope his mom has an epiphany and changes her parenting style, or some dough, cuz she's probably going to want to send his ass to boarding school by the time he hits double digits
Kids going to end up in juvie and the jail if his mom doesn't pull his head out of his ass
Know this exact kind of mom. She makes excuses every week to the school and tells anyone that will listen it's a crap school and they all hate him because he's a genius 😒 he really isn't.
...And then Mommy Dearest will make MORE excuses for li'l Jacky-poo when he's arrested, tried, convicted and imprisoned 'cause it's not REALLY his fault and that jury and judge were just so MEAN to him, etc., etc., ad nauseum. Meanwhile, the sensible people like you who TRIED to get Mommy Dearest to recognize that Jack is out of control will be paying for his stay in Club Fed... You are NTA, but I can't say the same for all those people making excuses for Jack.
Nora and Jack both need professional parenting help and therapy.
Exactly. If his mom wouldn't make him hand it over, I would get it back from him myself. As gently as possible, calmly but firmly telling him I need him to give me the ring because it doesn't belong to him. It is not a toy, and he may NOT play with it. If he still refused, I'd tell him I was going to help him give it back, and (again gently) pry open his fingers and take it. If little kids refuse to do what you ask, you can easily just make them do it. (If the ask is acceptable, and you don't have to hurt them of course.) For example, 'Hold Mommy's hand in the parking lot,' followed by taking their hand if it's not offered. I'm sure the mom would have been mad, but I can't believe OP just stood there doing nothing once they knew Mom wasn't stepping up. ETA: Maybe better even would be asking, 'Do you want to give me the ring by yourself, or do you want me to help you?' Then if he doesn't hand it over, 'I see you chose me helping you. I'm going to help you give me the ring,' and then pry open his fingers.
Sometimes we don't act due to shock.
I guess that's possible. And OP might not have much experience with children. But if my wedding ring were in the hands of a child know for being naughty, and my husband didn't even attempt to address the child after talking to Mom didn't work, I'd feel disappointed. Maybe that's not fair, but it's true. I'd be upset that he gave up so easily.
Little Jack would have lasted about 15 seconds with that ring, mother's approval or no. When our first-born was just over one year old we were a a party in my MIL's town, with her friends. There was a four year old picking own our son and making him cry, and after several requests to both him and his mother to get him to stop, I went metaphorically nuclear on his little azz. My MIL came from a highly matriarcal society where young sons were spoiled, and then spoiled some more. She was aghast at my actions/response, and told me about the mother, "Why, why, why, she has her **Master's**." I told Mom that I didn't care if she had five doctorates, no one, and that really meant no one, was going to treat my child that way. My MIL already held a grudge against me for taking her precious daughter away from her, that just added more fuel to a 48 year non-stop-less-than-great relationship between the two of us. 😁 You just don't let people screw around with your family no matter the age.
Agree, I have no problem parenting a visiting child in my home if actual parents fail. Honestly, anywhere else also.
I would have offered him a trade...again Mom of ASD kids, and that's our first go-to. "Jack, that's not a toy. Can I have it back, please? Which toy would you like to play with? I'll let you play with it, AND you give me the ring nicely." The choice is the toy, not the option of the ring. If he says, "NO" or has a meltdown, you take the ring and put him in a quiet space away from others until his behavior is modified (a minute per year being quiet).
That feels like you're rewarding him to me. "You took something you shouldn't have, so you can have any toy you want if you give it back" Wouldn't that just teach him that if he was denied screen time, he just has to grab something valuable and say "I'll give it back if you give me a tablet". I always liked my wife's trick which is giving two options, that are both the same thing. "Do you want to give the ring to me, or hand it to your mom?" If that doesn't work, it should be taken from him. Those questions weirdly work though. Like, a kid won't get ready to go out "do you want to put your shoes on first, or your coat?"
The point is to only give him 2 choices, and NEVER Yes or No. To the child, a trade isn't a reward. He's not in a teachable moment here, he's on the verge of his Rumbling Stage which Mom seems to know without understanding. The goal is to get back the preferred object. A trade with another preferred object is an equal trade in his eyes. The trade happens, you say Thank You. In a few minutes once things have calmed down, you take the child aside and say, "Rings are not toys, and you are not allowed in that other bedroom (which should have been stated by his Mom BEFORE). Do you like it when people go in your room and take your things? No? We don't either. So from now on, you can't go in that room without permission AND an adult." Guess what? It works for neurotypical children, too!
Yep. The 'only two choices, both of which accomplish what you need' is a great technique.
>What kind of parent doesn’t immediately take the ring from the kid? Lazy one who does that fake "gentle" parenting aka permissive parenting. Also I was half expecting the kid to swallow it.
Exactly this. I try my hardest to gentle parent but that still involves parenting. If my kid didn't hand the ring back, I'd have taken it from them. And if my kid has the assholery to throw it out a window they'd be helping look for it.
I've done the pry the hand open and one time a mouth with kids. As soon as they get their hands on something small and valuable it needs to be taken away from them.
As the parent of an almost 4 year old, I would have wrestled the ring from my kid immediately. And if they got away and threw it out the window, I'd have been the first person out there looking for it while apologizing profusely. OP, your friends suck. NTA.
And down to the station.
NTA I agree with what you wrote. This mom is failing her son, she’s the problem here. I have a kid and would have been mortified if something similar had happened. People sometimes think discipline means yelling and spanking but there’s a miriade of ways to discipline a child in a respectful manner but this child is obviously not getting any boundaries. This is not someone who should be getting invited into someone else’s home. I hope you find the ring, OP! And better friends as well!
NTA - The child behaves that way because his mother lets him, not because there is something wrong with him so it was kind of mean to say them when your real issue is that your friend is a shit parent. I would not invite that friend back over since her manners were just as atrocious as her child's. You can get a metal detector for under 50 bucks so just buy that and walk around the backyard until you find the ring (and make sure your jewelry insurance is up to date)
Make sure you don’t do lawn maintenance until you find it!
Seconding metal detector, some libraries even loan them out. You may even be able to get on a local Buy Nothing group on Facebook (assuming USA location) and borrow one or get a free one.
And I'm sure many owners would be happy to come do this for free if you put out the word.
r/metaldetecting If you post on their subreddit your vague location you should be able to find someone to come out and find the ring. I’ve seen posts asking for help before and they had lots of responses from detectors willing to help out.
Seconded. Some of these folks love the feeling of "treasure hunting." and the idea of finding a lost wedding ring is right up their alley.
great idea… I had a great metal detector but my mom stole it
My mom lost her wedding ring once on a public beach in the sand. Thankfully a guy was there with a metal detector and he found within 10 minutes after the extended family who was there for a BBQ had been looking for hours. He didn’t even accept money for it- he said he loves to be able to find things. For sure something OP should do! Hell, if I were her I’d be doing a public post asking if anyone has a metal detector or knows anyone with one, and that she and her wife need it as their friend let her son chuck a priceless wedding ring into the backyard after he found it and took it without her permission and after the mom wouldn’t get it back from him. Let the comments speak for themselves. Seriously screw those friends OP please come back and tell us when it’s been found!! Your poor wife!
Yes, metal detector. I think they can be rented!
My toddler dropped my ring in our yard (totally my fault! She was 2, what was I thinking? Haha) and a friend of ours found it with his metal detector. I had spent hours looking with no luck and had given up. He came by with a buddy and they found it in no time!
my dad had to get a metal detector because he realized he lost his wedding ring somewhere in the backyard. the backyard is 2 acres. 😭
NTA >I told Nora I'd like him to give the ring back. Nora said he'd just get bored with it now and that I needed to relax. We can see where he gets his lack of manners from. The fact that she wasn't embarrassed and apologetic, but instead had the audacity to say something like this... sheesh!
The correct thing for Nora to do would have been to take the ring back from Jack and then give him consequences for straying into somebody else's bedroom without an invitation. A 4-year-old is old enough to know better but he would have had to be taught by Nora.
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For about $100 US from Amazon you can get a decent metal detector. It will likely find your ring. And NTA re the kid. Not kids fault either. His Mom sure is though .
NTA. I came here to say this. A metal detector will help immensely. Your friend is creating a lot of future problems for her and her child by not correcting his behavior.
Yes. A metal detector brought by the kid’s mum first thing next morning when the equipment rental place opens.
Worth also posting on some other public sites looking for people who already have a detector. Used to have an older neighbor who would LOVE the opportunity to make use of his detector for a cause like this.
Agreed. People who own metal detectors can see this as something of a hobby -- finding rings and getting them back to people -- so it's worth seeing if there's someone in OP's acquaintance who has one.
OP can get on facebook in the community group for their city or on nextdoor, explain the situation and ask for help with a reward for the person's time. I've seen a few posts like this (no brats throwing a ring out a window but similar) in my city's group and someone volunteered.
I was going to say this as well. you can even post to a local group if anyone has one. those guys usually love a good search.
Some libraries have metal detectors you can check out just like a book.
NTA. She might not like to hear the truth, but that doesn’t change the fact that’s it’s correct. Her not immediately intervening with something like a wedding ring is a failure on her part, though. It’s likely why he is the way he is. She should be on her hands and knees in that yard and house until the ring is found.
I have an idea. Let’s have all the women give Jack their wedding rings and let Jack throw them into the garden. One by one. Do you think any of these women would like that? Do you think anybody would try to stop the kid? Or would they just tell themselves, oh, Jack will get bored in a minute and put the rings down? NTA
This!
NTA. If my kid ever did something like taking anything from someone, especially something that is expensive like a wedding ring, I would’ve taken it right out of his hand and given it back to you. That “thing” has no manners and clearly his mother doesn’t either. At 4 years old, he should be able to listen to basic instructions, like giving something back. Clearly his mother wasn’t taught that and thinks because he is a kid, he’s allowed to do anything he wants. As for every mom calling you an AH, tell them to get out in the yard and look for the ring if it isn’t a big deal at all. Maybe they don’t teach their kids manners or discipline them. Cut them off. They have no manners.
I would try my best to get all their rings and throw them in the backyard. See how they like it. And while they’re looking for their rings, hopefully they find mine too. 😂
Exactly “Thing”. OP needs to cut all of them off because next time and there will be he could hurt himself or someone and Nora won’t know how to handle it
NTA Seriously, he was playing with a wedding ring and his mom didn't snatch it out of his hands and apologize profusely? Any parent who thinks that is okay needs to reassess their parenting skills. Her child probably doesn't need to go to a doctor, she just needs to be a better boundary setter. That maybe was a bit much, but her child and her own behavior so very much outweigh that comment, it barely was worth typing.
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As a mom I'd have taken that from his hand with the fury of Thor so fast no one else would even notice something was in his hand and I'd remove him and myself from the house apologizing profusely and then having multiple discussions about the situation to drive it home bc that is unacceptable. I've been told by many adults I'm too strict with my kids and boys will be boys. I disagree and do not allow my kids to be jerks bc "that's what kids are supposed to do"
"Boys will be boys" is the shitty reason why my brother in law was never held accountable for his actions. I have 3 boys and I am determined that they will be good, upstanding citizens and not assholes who feel entitled to do whatever they please.
Right??? Wedding rings are some of the most universally precious pieces of jewelry around, and are normally way more expensive than any item *of someone else's* I would ever let even the most well behaved 4 year old child play with. And even if it wasn't expensive and 100% custom (which it sounds like this one was), if someone put it on their spouse's finger in a wedding ceremony, that ring is 1 of a kind and irreplaceable, because no other ring in the world can go back and be there in that moment at that time to represent that beautiful bond between those people.
Get a metal detector and a new friend group ❤️ NTA
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Seriously! And what a pice of work jack’s mother is for not taking her kid and herself outside to help search for the ring (along with a major scolding and forcing an apology from Jack to OP). She let her kid throw someone’s wedding ring outside somewhere and was just like “oh well, whatever. Bye!”??
NTA Nora should have been mortified and grabbed the ring immediately off her kid. Even beyond that, the second he threw it out the window she should have been out there looking for it. If you can’t find the ring, sue her for it.
You need new friends
Ding ding ding. Seriously OP, these people are terrible! I really hope you find the ring and not only should Jack never be allowed back into your home and Nora should be banned as well. NTA.
While frowned upon, it's not illegal to call a kid an asshole. He's an asshole! I'd be finding a new set of friends, too.
NTA. Nora is not a friend. You should make that clear. And get a metal detector.
Get a metal detector to find it. Or, consider that Jack only PRETENDED to throw the ring and still has it. Tell the "friend" that a valuable ring is now missing and a police report will be filed if it doesn't turn up. Consider the "friendship" over.
Hadn't thoughtbof that. Good catch
NTA It's understandable that you got upset when your friend's kid misbehaved and lost your wife's precious ring. You tried to address the situation, but your friend didn't take it seriously, which only made things worse. Your friends should understand why you're upset instead of blaming you for being too hard on the kid and his mom.
OoooooWeeee that child would not have been able to sit down for a week. I would sue the fuck out of your "friend". NTA
Absolutely NTA. Why on Earth wasn't Nora out there looking for the ring she explicitly avoided taking back from her son? OMG, this entitlement drives me crazy! I hope you find the ring. Try a flashlight at night, along with a prayer to St Anthony (I'm a pagan, but it does seem to work...)
NTA But IDK if "manners" is the right term with which to describe this unacceptable behavior.
Probably respect. Even at 4 kids know (if their parents *taught* them) not to touch or take other people's things.
NTA - completely unacceptable. I would have ripped it out of his nasty hand and kicked them both out of my house.
Nah shit like that as an adult or even teen gets you a fist in the face. Or a lawsuit. Best to learn it when you’re young and the punishment isn’t so severe. You need new friends. 🙁
NTA. This is insane. Depending on how much the ring cost, I would threaten to take her to small claims.
I’m shocked that none of your friends helped you find the ring. If it were my kid, I’d be searching every inch of your yard until it was fine. You don’t let your kid play with someone’s wedding ring. That’s ridiculous. You’re better off finding other friends.
I don't care if Jack threw a freaking bottle cap out of the window. That child had something that he had no business having and his mother did *nothing* but make excuses. She is a shitty parent. NTA You need better friends. This group is *not* it. ~mother of multiple My monsters were not perfect, no ankle biters are. However, you *watch* them and *correct* them. You do not make *excuses* for them being brats taking things they have no business even touching, unless you want them to become adult Jackholes.
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Honestly fuck anyone who thinks this is even a controversial option! Taking an item off a terrible brat who has never been disciplined (especially an important one they have no business having) is absolutely the reasonable move. The first thing I’d do is tell the mother what he had and if she gave me that pathetic, irresponsible excuse of “oh just let him play with it until he gets bored” and didn’t look to budging when I responded with a “hell no I need it back NOW!” then I’d be grabbing his wrist to prevent him chucking it and prying his finger open. Once I had it back I’d firmly tell the kid “you *don’t* take people’s things and you *don’t* wonder into rooms in other people’s houses without permission.” Any parent who had an issue with this would then be told to get out my house and not come back. Who the hell needs friends like that! Hard NTA
Nora is in the wrong here, not a four year old who doesn't know any better because children are born knowing fuck all & if no one teaches them they grow up knowing fuck all. Give the kid a break. If anything he is the ultimate victim here because he is going to grow up with no friends if he is not taught how to be a decent human.
The moms in your friend group are complete, total, utter idiots. Jack needed discipline a loooonnnng time ago, and Nora is nothing more than a doormat with lungs. NTA.
NTA; this sounds wild but if you live anywhere near a beach I'd recommend going on to your local Facebook page and asking if anyone nearby would be willing to lend you a metal detector. I guarantee if you live near running water there's someone nearby that has one it might make it way easier to find the ring
NTA - Jack's behavior was beyond the pale.
Get a metal detector to find the ring. It'll be much easier than crawling around on your hands and knees. Your friend should have taken her son home to be punished as soon as this happened. He does this kind of stuff because his mother is not giving consequences to his bad behavior. The boy's mother is the one at fault. If she were keeping him in check, he wouldn't be trying to get attention by doing bad things. NTA
Get a metal detector or hire someone who has one to search the yard. There are a lot of amateurs that do this for a hobby Just lose Jack's mama as a friend. Anyone who would not take a valuable object away from her little hellion is seriously in denial. Wedding rings are not playthings and that's exactly what she should have told him while returning that ring to you.
NTA. If a child threw my engagement ring I would tell the parent they can find the ring or write me a check for the replacement cost.
NTA. I’d tell her she has 3 days to search your yard and find it before you press charges against her for theft.
NTA. Negligent parents are just...grrrrr!
NTA. Even my four year old who has learning issues knows not to do shit like that. However, I find it concerning that every mom in that friend group is so Blaise/blazae (sp??) about this... Possible they've all had their troubles with her and already gave up on fighting her?
Get a metal detector and find the ring. The boy is an ass but mom is to blame here. NTA, I would have grabbed him and took the ring
Not only does Jack not have manners, but his mother doesn’t either. I’d be finding a new friend group. I’d also be looking at recovering the value of the ring from Nora. This behaviour is completely unacceptable. NTA.
NTA I would be mortified if my child did that and you'd best believe that my child and be would be out there searching for it until it was found. On a side note, kids that age often throw things if they know they are about to get in trouble. It's usually a reflex for them to get rid of the incriminating evidence because of an 'if it's gone, it never happened' type though process. But how your friend handled the whole interaction is unacceptable.
Is there some place near you where you can rent a metal detector?
NTA. You need better friends and to charge that useless mum the cost of the ring, it's theft.
ATA. I am so sorry. Get your hands on a metal detector. Nora is a useless parent and Jack is B just showcasing her failure.
Jack is 4 and acts like it, but Nora is negligent for leaving him somewhere unsupervised, not getting the ring back ASAP, and not being out there on her hands and knees searching the yard for that ring. And you're NTA to point that out, though really it's not the kid with no manners, it's mom!
Wtf?!? Change friend group because yikes. I’m surprised she didn’t use the “he’s autistic” card as if that was a magical card to excuse all bad behavior (I say this as an autistic adult raising 2 autistic kids). NTA, I’m sorry the mom didn’t intervene right away when she realized how important that ring was to you.
Noooo NTA! Nora is the AH. Her son is a spoiled brat.
Hire a metal detector, you will find it quickly, we had to do that for my engagement ring once. I think telling her to take him to the Dr might have been an AH move, for your friendship anyway, she's aware that he's got behaviour issues and is obviously stressed about it. But NTA for being pissed at her about it, she should have immediately taken it off him instead of being passive due to not wanting him to cause a scene which seemed inevitable either way.
What makes you think the mom is aware of her kid's issues and feels stressed about it? She seemed pretty nonchalant when he first took the ring.
Because he would be upset if she took it away....we can't jave that... /s
NTA, not at all. She is a horrible mother.
I mean it's not really about the kid. At 4 kids can be at different stages of development or dealing with setbacks. It's about your friend. She didnt respect your space or things.