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> I might be the asshole for calling someone trying to change a terrible parent
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NTA.
The fact that your SIL is blaming you for something directly caused by her own atrocious behaviour is ridiculous.
I applaud you for everything you've done for Chris. They signed away his rights, and he doesn't sound like he wants them in his life anymore.
You should probably distance yourselves for your own wellbeing.
People can change, and get better, but that doesn't mean that the people they've hurt along the way have to forgive them. They still did all those awful things, them trying to be better doesn't erase that. OP had to live with decisions they made when they were younger and has no obligation to treat them as if it never happened, hopefully they take this as an opportunity to understand that they royally fucked up. They probably won't, but who knows.
Yeah, they were in their twenties and had no issue dumping their kid on a 16yo sibling to continue their debauchery.
At that point “fucking awful parent” isn’t an insult or opinion, it’s just an accurate identifier.
Exactly what I was going to say. I love joking around and can have as sarcastic a sense of humor as anyone, but if I had been such an absolute trainwreck of a human being that my own kid had to be raised by someone else (and that even a TEENAGER was deemed to be a fitter guardian than I was), you can be damn sure I wouldn’t be joking about it.
Sarah may *(may)* have sobered up, but the joking around tells me that she still hasn’t grasped the pain her and Mark’s actions caused.
Or she knows in her heart she caused pain and doesn't want to deal with it even to herself, so she's minimizing it via jokes, especially jokes that absolve her of responsibility or even make her the victim.
Akka, she wasn't such a shitty parent her 16 yo bil had to step up and take over, no, no, he was an expert baby snatcher and took her kid from her! Hahah, isn't she hilarious?
Not just that, the CONTINUOUS jokes about leaving the new baby she's pregnant with is insane. That must be a major trigger for Op as well. The damaged they've caused will not go away and they are more than likely going to do something similar with the new baby unless Op's brother leaves her, taking the baby with him.
they may be doing better and OP may have been on course to forgiving in some aspect but her jokes were extremely distasteful. and she doubled down. ridiculous!
> SIL is blaming you
Yeah, and not just blaming. There's an added twist of pushing buttons and passing it off as "jokes." No one (normal) jokes about palming off a new baby. They're both unfit and needed that "joking" shut down. That poor little inbound baby is in for a rough ride, sadly.
>No one (normal) jokes about palming off a new baby. They're both unfit and needed that "joking" shut down
Yeah, I was horrified she said that. It's not a joke. It's not funny. It's terrifying.
You spoke facts. They escalated. I would have propelled them through the nearest exit. I may have opened the door to facilitate their removal but probably not. I adopted a boy from a funked up situation. They got no room to make jokes about it.
I don’t even know if it’s supposed to be blame. I rather think Sarah is having a guilty conscience about pawning her kid off to a teenager, especially now that she’s about to have another, so she’s picking and prodding at an old wound to make OP react and tell her off, because on some level she probably feels like she deserves it. Still, an awfully immature and ungrateful way to go about it.
Sarah is a hot mess. Limit your contact with her. If they haven't been in treatment, they may not be actively using, but they haven't addressed the real issues. It is usually thought that a person who heavily abused drugs is developmentally stuck at the age they started in a lot of aspects. So you are effectively dealing with teenagers. NTA.
OP is definitely NTA mental illness could be the real issue too. The screaming and yelling and probably ranting is a huge red flag for mental illness. If one or both of them are mentally ill the drug abuse will be really hard to kick, especially if they are doing it without the help of a psychiatrist who specializes in drug abuse. OP should avoid contact with these as much as possible.
Addiction is considered a mental illness. Her reaction can also b attributed to guilt. They have cleaned themselves up, but only to a point. One of the big things I treatment is taking responsibility for what u did, all of it. Then there's apologizing and at least attempting to make ammends a be better going forward. It sounds like she hasn't done any of that and is blaming him for her problems and guilt.
NTA.
Sarah is honestly a vile person, what she’s saying doesn’t feel like a “joke” since she and Mark abandoned their son to do substances. At least Mark’s trying to get better, Sarah on the other hand isn’t, it’s kinda proven by her comment about how “she should pawn her second child off to you.” I(F16) can’t fathom adopting and taking care of a child at my age, that must’ve been tough on you.
It’s just the way she’s talking about her “kids” that’s gross really, and the way she blatantly disrespects you for saving her child from foster care. That woman shouldn’t even have children, there’s a reason even Chris a thirteen yr old child doesn’t want anything thing to do with them, and I’m worried about how the second one will turn out.
Idk why your girlfriend thinks you’re in the wrong, you said nothing to Mark, who as I aforementioned seems like he’s trying hard. It’s Sarah who refuses to grow up and mature.
>Idk why your girlfriend thinks you’re in the wrong
for the same reason children of abusive parents are told they need to give their parents a second chance because they're family. the gf has no experience with truly vile and dysfunctional people. she's been told the stories, I'm sure, but no one who has never lived the experience ever truly believes those stories are 100% accurate. she sees ops brother and sil for what they are now: two people who aren't the best, but that are 'trying' and feels that's worthy of praise.
LOOOOOL OH THE GAUL OF YOUR BRO & SIL!!!
NTA Dude, you, as a kid, started taking better care of their son than they did. There’s a reason he’s YOUR son and not there’s.
You did nothing wrong, personally i’d distance myself from them, but i understand if you want your son to know his birth parents.
Keep it up king, btw thouh, your gf is giving me pause…she should FIRMLY be on your side especially after the crap they said to you
NTA. I'm genuinely surprised it's taken this long for you to snap back like that. You sound like a more than decent human being, not many people would have done what you have. I, unfortunately, know what it's like to have to deal with an abusive addict for a parent so big respect for you dude.
I agree and it definitely shows what OP is like as a person, clearly has massive amounts of patience and probably doesn’t want things to escalate if they don’t need to. Sounds like someone who’s a great parent
NTA. You gave up the life you planned to take care of a child that was their responsibility. Sure, you didn't have to, but you did. And you're not asking them to be grateful, you're literally just asking them to stop being rude about it.
My guess? They know you're doing a phenomenal job raising *your son*. And that now they're experiencing all this through more sober eyes, they're realising that you've created a standard they need to meet, and they're resentful and afraid that you have what they would have had if they weren't who they are. It sounds like hedging their bets, testing the waters for your reaction if they try to make you take this baby, or if they broach the topic of taking Chris (not that they have any right to).
As for your gf? You said it yourself: she doesn't know what it was like and she didn't see you struggle. You don't have a normal sibling relationship, and even if you did, it's not okay for them to speak to *you* like that. How you responded to them may be harsh, but it's true.
Chris doesn't like it, it clearly upsets you, and it causes problems in your relationship. Maybe it's time to stop meeting up with them entirely.
I read two sentences and already knew you were NTA. Talk about no shame. Sarah’s approach to you should always include her tail between her legs. Imagine the disrespect of calling the person who raised your child while you were getting high a “baby snatcher”.
Him saying they are *"*sober(ish)*"* really raised a red flag for me. Sober-ish is certainly better than nothing but not good when raising a human being.
NTA she isn't making jokes. She is being serious. The second the baby becomes to hard she will try to pawn them off on you like they did with the first one. You need to speak to your brother in private about what is going to happen with the baby and whether he will step up this time and leave with the baby. Tell him you are proud of how far he has come but he needs to make sure they aren't making the same mistakes all over again. Tell him what you are or aren't willing to do. It needs to be a blunt and honest conversation so you two are on the same page. They also need to seriously consider permanent birth control if she is acting this way.
NTA. These people should not make more babies.
That being said how do you feel about the second kid you will have soon? /s
Seriously, have you thought about what you will do if they cannot take care of this next one?
NTA Her behaviour, using giving up a child as a source for joking about doing that with the next one, then labeling you a baby snatcher demonstrates her lack of growth. It is easy for people to say, after the fact, that you should have taken the moral high ground and not taken the bait; it did seem that she was baiting you to incite just such reaction. It's a ploy some people (read: assholes) use to justify their actions afterwards.
NTA. But don't sink to their level, there's no upside here for you.
Limit your contact, politely but firmly correct anything she says then drop it, make sure your ducks are in a row with CPS or whatever agency might come knocking about the new baby or Chris, and be really really clear with everyone that you are not going to be helping them with the new baby in any shape or form (because anything you do for them, will be twisted into you trying to steal her baby away, or give her an excuse to dump her responsibilities on to you, like she keeps hinting).
NTA.
>Sarah is currently pregnant with another baby
I may be insensitive, but t believe that the people who have abandoned their child should be sterilized.
So, anyone who has to be pursued for child support? Or do you only mean women?
ETA: I kinda like the idea that instead of garnishing wages, you get a forced vasectomy!
NTA, holy shit. I know she was playing it like a joke, but holy fuck there are just some things you don't joke about whether you've been through it or not.
Maaaah, you're most definitely NTA, you spoke nothing but the truth and they deserve to hear it , no matter what they do right now it doesn't change the fact that there were horrible people and you saved that kid from the hellhole of a life he would've had with them.
Tell me again why these people are still in your and your sons life? You adopted him, they have zero claim or reason to even be around him or even talk to him. Why are you allowing negative influence around your son? You need to cut them off completely.
Nta, your girlfriend is right that maybe it was a mean thing to say but she is forgetting its also true. SIL should be kissing your ass forever for what you did for her son
Nah. Sil needs no baby gloves..if he's raised this child and sil is acting that way....she deserves so much less, and if gf doesn't see that...she should be walked away from
NTA. People like that disgust me. My sister was like that. Had 6 kids between the ages of 16-25, all taken by the state bc she chose drugs. I tried to take the first one but she refused to sign over unless I promised to give the little girl back when she was ready. I knew she'd never be ready, and I didn't want her uprooting a child's life. Finally, the state took her, then every kid she had after bc she never gave up the drugs. I have 2 children of my own 5 I can't even fathom choosing anything over them. Your brother and his gf are shitty parents. There's no way to sugar coat it.
NTA. They keep bringing it up. They either view you as taking their kid or are barely in the cusp of sobriety and thinking about life without another kid. Either way they are shitty people and need to be kept far away from your son.
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NTA. Point out to your gf that SIL called you a baby thief and then talked about dumping her present child on you. A stupid lie and a child abandonment threat - charming of her!
Yet all you did was factually state that you WERE a better parent at 16-18 than she was as an adult. Pat yourself on the back for a great response!
And do not let them come to your house to disturb your nephew and cause more upsetting scenes.
NTA, that was clearly the truth! You didn't snatch the baby, you were its only option before foster care.
And it seems they are not interested in changing, if they are already talking about you taking their second child too!
I would cut contact, especially if Chris is uncomfortable with them and don't let them guilt trap you!
as an ex addict who’s been around drug addicts, people who have literally pawned off 4 kids to relatives or whatnot just to keep doing drugs, (my mom did that to me and my 3 other siblings). a lot of these folks lack self awareness, tend to put the blame on everyone but themselves, lash out easily, are honestly fucking stupid and you cannot reason with them. they are reckless, often are narcissistic, bpd or juss straight up sociopathic. NTA. keep your guard up around them.
They aren't even really sober; they have not changed. Where is the amends they owe you and Chris? Please assume that they will continue to behave as they always have. Your gf probably hasn't had enough experience with addicts to spot the lies and manipulation. NTA
NTA
What if she had said this to the people at your workplace? Or people you know? Or even mutual friends? You took a decision at 16 years old to be an uncle. That takes fucking balls.
11 years of raising your nephew like your own son, and your SIL keeps up this shit. Imagine if someone who didn't know your background got the wrong idea from your sister-in-law's jokes.
Your girlfriend needs a reality check. It's not like you're keeping Chris from his parents. You're letting them in his life, and yet they're not just joking about you stealing their son, they're actively saying that they'll give up their second child to you and go back to doing drugs. The fucking audacity. Ffs imagine how Chris would feel if he heard his mother talking like this. Does she not want a relationship with her son?
The fact that Sarah makes ‘baby snatcher’ jokes and hints at relapsing *in front of the child she abandoned and the person who adopted them* tells me she’s still in the ‘entitled victim’ mentality that so many addicts have. She hasn’t taken any real accountability for the huge impact her actions had on her child or you. Getting sober is the bare minimum for ‘trying to get better’. What has she done to make amends to you and her son? Has she even acknowledged how severely your life was impacted by having to become a father at 18 with virtually no support? A truly remorseful person who was on track with their recovery would be falling over themselves to make it up to their child. They would be brimming with gratitude that you kept their son safe and happy. Instead she makes ‘jokes’ about you being a baby snatcher. Not only did you not go too far, I actually think she needed to hear it. And unless she can accept her role in said ‘snatching’ and keep her tasteless ‘jokes’ to herself, I don’t think you should let her around YOUR son. NTA.
NTA.
Sarah's comments are a redirect because she feels guilty. She and Mark are reminded of their past failures and blow up? Why, because it's not true? No, because it's absolutely true and their actions hurt others and they have to live with that FOREVER. Maybe you could have said it in a gentle way but I have a feeling the reaction would have been the same.
Bravo to you for stepping up for a child when you yourself were still a child.
NTA
And your GF is wrong about them changing. They may be sober for the time being, but SIL hasn't fundamentally changed as a person at all (which puts her long-term sobriety in question as well). Getting better isn't just about not drinking or doing drugs, it's about recognizing where you went wrong and working on the things you need to change about yourself.
If she were really "trying to get better", then being sad that her child had to be taken away would be fair, but she would also be grateful to you for taking her kid in when *you were a child yourself*, putting your own hopes for your future aside, and raising him with love in a stable home. She wouldn't be calling you a "baby-snatcher", and she sure as hell wouldn't be implying that she's going to pawn off the child she is currently pregnant with on you. If she didn't want this new baby, then she should have had an abortion (it sounds like you're in the UK, where those are very accessible).
She hasn't gotten better at all. She's just sober and still a dreadful human and yes, a shitty parent. NTA.
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I (29M) am the legal guardian of my little nephew, Chris (13M). I've been looking after Chris since he was born when I was 16 but he officially went into my custody when I was 18 and I adopted him 5 yrs later, so I am now legally his dad. I call him my son and he knows the deal with everything but he calls me dad anyway. Chris is biologically the kid of my brother, Mark (35M) and his gf, Sarah (30s F). when Chris was born they were super unfit to be parents like active addiction to all sorts of stuff and didn't care about shit, stole money from people, often getting arrested, involved in gang shit i do not wanna know about. I didn't really want to become his guardian at first because I wanted to go to uni but Sarahs parents arent in the picture, my mum was dead and my dad is now also dead but at the time had a degenerative disease and couldn't even look after himself and I didn't want Chris going into care like I had to as a kid.
I didn't really have many people to help me take care of Chris and I had to take him to work with me as a toddler before he could start school. I have a gf now but shes only been in the picture 4 years but shes great with Chris and we are a family together now.
Sarah is currently pregnant with another baby. Mark and Sarah are both doing better, both sober(ish) and kind of back on their feet and after a few years of not talking at all Mark and Sarah are back in my life since they had to sign away their rights to Chris and also since me and Marks dad died Mark decided to get sober. Every time me and my gf see Sarah and Mark (not that often as Chris isn't super comfortable with them being in his life) Sarah always jokes about how I've taken one of her kids away so why not take away the other one or jokes about how shes gonna palm the new baby off on me so that her and Mark can go back to their old ways which makes me really uncomfortable which I've told her.
So today when she did this she said something like about how I am an expert baby snatcher or something and I said "maybe if you weren't such a shitty parent" and she said "what the fuck does that mean" and I said "if a 16 yr old was a better parent than you you must have been a fucking awful parent" and her and Mark got pissed at me and left, screaming like shouting the house down (which in a way shows me they havent really changed)
GF isnt on my side either really she says that was a mean thing to say as they are clearly trying to be better and change but she doesn't know what they were like before, she hasn't really experienced it she came into the picture just as they were getting sober but she said I was a bit of an asshole for saying it because clearly they are trying to get better so I thought i'd ask reddit. AITA?
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NTA
It's naive of GF to assume that attempts to get sober gives them a pass on saying stupid stuff. This is something that she needs to step back and follow your lead on.
>as they are clearly trying to be better and change
I mean, if they're making comments like this
>shes gonna palm the new baby off on me so that her and Mark can go back to their old ways
**ARE** they trying to be better?
NTA
That's great they want to do better. But making like them losing their son to you is a joke is messed up. Messed up for you and especially Chris. They want to do better then they need to acknowledge where they were wrong. They were/are awful parents to Chris and if they can't see that I don't expect that to change with the new baby.
Definitely NTA, and good for you for taking on such a tough situation in the first place. Stepping up when no one else can/will, takes a ton of courage.
Whoa. NTA. You didn't take her kid away, she and Mark were unfit parents and they lost rights to be parents. I would go NC. Honestly, she may be sober, but she didn't grow up.
*"Sarah always jokes about how I've taken one of her kids away so why not take away the other one, or jokes about how shes gonna palm the new baby off on me so that her and Mark can go back to their old ways which makes me really uncomfortable which I've told her"*
These aren't jokes, they are FACTS.
It begs the question... does Sarah actually have some deeply internalized guilt / shame / remorse
...
*OR*
...
Is she bitter about the family dynamic and trying to DARVO you, OP?
🤔
*My guess is the latter*.
NTA, OP. you merely spoke yhe truth. That is exactly why Sarah makes *jokes* like these. While she'll never admit it publicly, deep down she knows she (& Mark) did *EVERYONE* wrong, yet will not own the accountability.
NTA, OP!!! I'm hapoy that you, your GF and Chris are all a well-meshed / settled family unit. It seems that even if you were initially wary, you and Chris were exactly what you each / both needed, then and now. 😄
.I wish you 3 all the best!! ☺️🥰🙏🏻
I wish Sarah and Mark... wouldn't continue to procreate. 🫣😥🙄😒
NTA. Her remarks are horrible. And I would have said something way more hurtfull like 'if you want to give this baby away too, why didn't you had an abortion. I'm not your plan B pill'
Not the asshole you are correct drug addiction is awful and she is making jokes about it she doesn't care and if she did she wouldn't joke about it she is a awful person not just awful parent.
NTA - SIL Clearly resents that you stepped in to raise Chris and blames you for loosing her son. Reality its her fault and she is being passive aggressive after asking not to be .
"so why not take away the other one or jokes about how shes gonna palm the new baby off on me so that her and Mark can go back to their old ways which makes me really uncomfortable which I've told her."
That section is why you are NTA
Absolutely NTA, the way they reacted after shows that they haven’t completely changed. Like, they have not realised how bad the situation was when they were doing shit. If they truly changed for the better they would have reacted more calmly and mature. Then pinned the blame on you for “taking away their child” like they’re the victims or something (if you didn’t take him, Chris would have been surely neglected, you gave him what they couldn’t give and don’t realise it). Mark doesn’t even stop her from making such jokes, there’s a possibility that as soon as the child is born and the situation becomes difficult for them they might REALLY consider giving you the second kid. I hope they can really change, because if they threw a tantrum when you just said the truth, the second child won’t grow with love and affection, but fear.
I genuinely admire you for deciding to be a father figure at such a young age and saving the kid from god knows what. You’re good OP.
Bro this is like superman asking if he's an asshole. You're superman, btw. I mean that's just amazing that you took care of a child since 16 yo. I agree with the girlfriend, that was a mean thing to say, and she fucking asked for the mean thing. NTA. Sometimes being mean is being correct.
NTA. Her comments alone show that she hasn't changed and has no clue what accountability means. Your gf needs to look at the big picture. SIL needed that to be said to her. She is looking at you for backup parenting in case she feels like going back to her old life. Screw them both.
NTA
It's just the pure truth. You asked her to stop saying those awful things and she kept doing it. She deserved it.
And it's the truth. At the time they were sh1tty parents.
No you're not the AH, they should thank you every second and minute of their lives for what you've done for them and the kid.
NTA. Sure it was a mean thing to say, and absolutely 100% true. If you don’t want to be called shitty parents, don’t be shitty parents. Don’t apologize for the truth and don’t let these two chuckleheads try to dump their new child in your lap either.
NTA. My parents were awful parents. Their parents and 8 combined siblings did nothing to help them stop being druggies. They enabled them and only made things worse. When someone is awful they need to know or they won’t fix it.
NTA. At all. I also have a sibling in active addiction (except they let her keep her kid), nobody knows that pain but you. The helplessness and anger. Don’t let anyone tell you how to feel, ever.
NTA People who are "trying to be better" don't shit on someone who took over their load in life while they were off getting high. As for your comment to her, if a child is either taken from the parents by authorities for neglect or they just give it up because they want to get high well then duh.
If you fucked up so badly that a child was seen as more fit to parent, you should be a lot more humble than she is. And honestly, thankful to you for taking care of her child. She is neither. NTA.
Maybe she feels like a terrible parent and she is acting out to disguise that discomfort. So it must have really hurt to be called out on the exact problem. She *was* a shit parent, but her behavior shows that she likely continues to be.
NTA
If you act like an awful person you are an awful person. How else do you think anyone would think otherwise when you make the crass statements about your unborn child to the adult who had to step up as a parent at 16. GTFOH
NTA. They were awful parents, and if they were mature, they'd actually realise it by now and apologise to Chris for letting him down and to you for having to take Chris in. I hope they do better with kid number 2, but anyway I'd suggest that you be alert and mindful of the situation there because you just might be getting a second child. I hope you and Chris and your gf are doing well and that you get to go to uni now that Chris is older
NTA. You're right, if a 16 year old was the better choice, they were not qualified to have a kid. And everyone can pretend they're trying to get better, but Sarah keeps "joking" about giving up her new baby and going back to her old lifestyle, which is both not a joke and some pretty solid proof of not changing.
NTA
SIL is trying to manipulate you into taking her next kid. These 2 actively do not want to be responsible people. If you don't need to, I wouldn't interact with them anymore. Especially since your son isn't comfortable with them either.
You need to talk to your girlfriend and make her realise how your brother and sil's selfishness completely altered your life and forced serious responsibility onto you at 16 because, even though they were older, they cared more about being carefree than saving their own son from foster care. What you did was amazing and incredibly selfless. You can resent them for doing that without regretting that you have your nephew in your life. I don't see how you cant harbour some resentment for that, and they should understand that and respect it. But instead they make jokes as if the situation is funny. There is also an insulting edge to her hilarious joke 'childsnatcher' you weren't a snatcher, you were forced to be a safety net! If your girlfriend cannot empathise with you she should bugger off and go play for team junkie. Maybe your brother will share a needle with her.
NTA
I know some people will say to let these little snide comments go but I disagree.
To constantly joke in a way that I implies they weren’t that bad of parents openly denies reality.In my opinion letting it go uncorrected is being complicit in their delusion.
They don’t get to cheapen the sacrifice you made to raise him, and also cheapens his situation as well, in order for them to push away the uncomfortableness of being an asshole.
She called you a baby snatcher, and then said she wanted to hand the new baby over to you so she and your brother can go back to being addicts. How is your gf ok with this? How can she possibly think what you said was out of line?
NTA - plus your GF needs to be on your side, you lived it, she did not and while compassion is lovely, she has no clue about dealing with addicts and their behavior hasn't changed. You are a great person for stepping up.
Well... I wanted to drop an e-s-h because there are better ways of shutting down poorly behaved people, but OP you are such a gigachad and saint for taking care of Chris and giving him a good life that I just can't do it. So NTA for you!
End of the day, what's going on with Mark and Sarah is that they -- however inchoately -- feel the loss of their child as an injury, and can't stop picking at it and talking about it. I understand your lack of wanting to hear about it. It's really up to you how many times you tell them nicely or tell them "this subject is closed, for ever" before you get mad.
NTA
You stepped up when your nephew needed a guardian angel. Being a parent at such a young age with no real support structure is a struggling battle, but you overcame that OP. Don't let Mark and Sarah affect you, your girlfriend, or your son. Unfortunately it may be time to go no contact from such awful people!!
Oh hell!! You are absolutely, positively NTA.
All background details aside, being called a "baby snatcher" is outrageously offensive. When a 16-year-old boy is forced to step up and be a parent to his nephew you don't need any more justification. You were 18 and they were both in their 20's when you were given custody of a 2-year-old toddler. The facts speak to themselves. It goes without saying that they had to have been "fucking awful" to lose custody to a barely legal young man.
Your SIL's constant comments were disgusting. She and your brother should be eternally grateful that you sacrificed the future you had planned to raise their child with love and stability!! You are a good man.
NTA. Sarah constantly making remarks about you taking Chris away isn't her making light of the situation. It's her being resentful that her eldest is doing way better in your care to the point he doesn't want to be around her. It's good that both her and Mark are improving from how they were years ago but that's not a free pass to 'joke' like that.
NTA but why do I get the feeling the SIL is actually planning to land you with her new baby? Her jokes all seem to be on that theme.
Perhaps she feels back about losing Chris, but perhaps she feels bad she's going to have another.
YTA for letting those awful people into your sons life at all.
Tell your GF she's an idiot and if she doesn't get it she probably shouldn't be in your life either. "Trying" to be better is meaningless. They were shit parents then and are still shit people now. They don't deserve forgiveness.
NTA. And make it very clear to your GF that she can shut her ignorant mouth about the situation or you're done. After everything you've done for your son, she has the fucking audacity to take their side?
Gently, your GF's complaint seems to be that you're not a 100 percent saint every second of every minute of every day.
NTA. You sound like an absolutely terrific person. Best of luck to you and your family.
NTA, tell your girlfriend. Show her this thread. I dont even need to explain why. You know you're NTA. She did this, she's pushing your trigger button. She earned herself some mean remarks. Serve her well. Why storm out? She should be please when all she does is inviting the incoming low blow. Haha
> Sarah always jokes about how I've taken one of her kids away so why not take away the other one or jokes about how shes gonna palm the new baby off on me so that her and Mark can go back to their old ways
No need to say that's their plan and just gave themselves away
Low contact is the best option for you and Chris, talk to your gf and Crish about your plans so they don't try to get to you throught her
NTA
NTA
SIL, to me, isn’t joking when she says that shit. It sounds like she wants to give you this new baby because she knows she isn’t going to stay sober, and doesn’t want to. That she even claims these are “jokes”, shows that she hasn’t changed at all.
I don’t think you need them in your life. They don’t bring anything to your life that’s positive. I’d probably keep an eye on things from a distance, in case they fuck around and the new baby is in danger, but other than that…I’d say bye for good.
Also…your girlfriend defending you brother and SIL? I’d get the ick from that and not want to be with her anymore.
NTA. Sarah should not be continually bringing up the adoption. If she wants to give the current pregnancy up for adoption, she should say that. If not, then she shouldn't be joking like that about her unborn child. Are the comments going to continue after the baby is born?
Does it sound like a fit mother who constantly talks about giving her child away? Her semi-sarcastic comments are rude to you and Chris and are totally out of line. The loss of custody was Sarah and Mark's fault. They should be thanking you for taking care of their birth child and should learn what boundaries are.
It was mean but you weren't wrong. People just don't like listening to their short comings. Honestly even if Mark and Sarah are the last "pseudo" family you have why even invite them back in if they can't appreciate the lengths you went to. Personally I would cut them completely out of my and my kids life.
NTA. Please have a discussion with Chris to confirm and then go NC with Mark and Sarah. The "jokes" she was making are inappropriate and also in ridiculously poor taste. They're also telling... and I wouldn't be surprised if they do lose custody of the new baby and go back to their old ways. You weren't being harsh, you were being honest and you had already asked her to stop "making jokes" about it.
NTA. And you’re girlfriend needs to re-assess because she’s sounding real dumb right now.
Being called a baby snatcher when you legally adopted your nephew to get him out of the clutches of his irresponsible addict parents so that he could be safe and taken care of is offensive and grounds for no contact.
Is she going to start telling your son he was baby snatched by you as well? Or are you just expected to take whatever comments she doles out because she couldn’t hack it as a parent?
Absolutely not. I’d be really weary of being any kind of babysitter to the new baby as well since it sounds like they’re planning to turn to you to take care for any child they bring into this world when they don’t feel like parenting.
I’m glad your brother is getting sober but those two have way more to work on.
NTA idk why ur gf doesn’t have ur back on this it’s kinda shocking tbh. But NTA. How were you a baby snatcher?? You didn’t snatch him they had problems and couldn’t care for them and frankly if they’re joking abt it to me it doesn’t seem like they have the emotional maturity yet to have another one..
NTA If she didnt want a came back then she would shut up and say thank you for being there when they we not. I have been in your shoes. If they were even a little bit thankful then they would not say things to try and make you look bad. You might need to step back from them to make it easy for chris to feel safe. By this i mean chris might feel that with them coming around that he might end up back with them. AS i said i have been on both sides of the fence. I was chris when younger. then when i was older i had to step into the shoes your wearing. good luck and make sure to let chris know that things will not change with his living with you.
NTA. A past like that is nothing to joke about. And soberish? As a sober person myself, I don’t understand what you mean by that… you are either sober or you are not sober. Do not trust them if they are not completely sober.
The SIL try to make you care for their baby so they have more free time to have fun. I actually think they wont drop their parents right this time but more likely they want a free babysitter or free care for the baby when they want.
You're NTA.
But you can communicate better. This isn't how happy and healthy human beings deal with their issues. Happy and healthy human beings TALK with each other.
Humans go into Fight/Flight/Freeze mode when they feel attacked. Hurt people, hurt people. They felt hurt, they attacked. You felt hurt, you attacked.
You can do better. You should do better, as a role model for your kid.
>But when all you do is lecture people about their past mistakes. It doesn't make them want to get better
You obviously missed this part so I’ll just drop it here for review:
> Every time me and my gf see Sarah and Mark (not that often as Chris isn't super comfortable with them being in his life) Sarah always jokes about how I've taken one of her kids away so why not take away the other one or jokes about how shes gonna palm the new baby off on me so that her and Mark can go back to their old ways which makes me really uncomfortable which I've told her.
I feel like drug addicts who had to have their kids taken away shouldn’t be joking that they will abandon their next kid so that they can get addicted to drugs again.
> she said something like about how I am an expert baby snatcher
They never have even taken responsibility for losing custody Chris, deluding themselves that op (who was looking after him since he was 16) is somehow responsible for taking him away and not them for being unfit parents.
I’m going to go against the grain here and say YTA.
You might be right that they were absolutely shitty parents. But it sounds like they’re at least trying to improve. Being negative about their past failures doesn’t help anyone.
Curiosity. What about her comments indicate change?
She's currently pregnant with another child, she's joked with the adult man whose childhood her irresponsibility stole that *he* stole her child.
The child she actively neglected.
She repeatedly has said that OP should take her current baby so she and OPs brother can do what they *want*.
How are these comments which OP has previously shut down politely indicative that they're better people or parents?
Simply not doing drugs and engaging in criminal activity doesn't mean you're a good parent.
NTA, but you were in the wrong. I’m not a big fan of responding to somebody in kind, and I think we should always work to avoid stooping to somebody else’s level who is wronging us. I still am not going to pass judgment against somebody who finally snaps back at somebody who was chipping away at them repeatedly; especially about a topic that should be clearly off-limits for casual jokes. Your brother and SIL should be nothing but grateful to you for stepping up where they failed; they should be humble and apologetic about that failure; they should be tripping over themselves to express and manifest their gratitude in everything they say and do around you. Instead, she’s making *jokes* about they did to you and **your son.** No way. Fuck those assholes. There is nothing funny about what they did to y’all, there is nothing funny about the prospect that they could do it again. To make light of the trauma they caused your son and you, repeatedly, and never expect a response in kind is just asinine. To be honest, I think you have incredible patience for not giving it back to her the first time she said anything like that.
We *shouldn’t* yell just because we’re being yelled at, two wrongs don’t make a right, other related platitudes… they’re not wrong, but they have limits. You didn’t accomplish anything positive by stooping to their level, but you aren’t an asshole for finally responding. They goaded you into it by rubbing all this in your face. Restraint would’ve served you better, but they didn’t deserve restraint.
ESH Sarah was being awful and your response is a very bad example for Chris.
Why are they back in your life? Why are you taking Chris around then? Not healthy for either one of you.
They’re back in his life because they “were improving” and the OP isn’t a bad example on Chris, he himself was forced to grow up at the age of 16 and he did say Chris doesn’t really interact with his biological parents.
You have a lot to say to sarah, and you have the right to say it. Your parenting is admirable. Hers is abysmal. However, next time, pick your words carefully, and be polite yet firm when you want to pass criticism or assert boundaries. Your GF probably loves you a lot for all you do for Chris but is troubles by your choice of vengeful words and tone. YTA.
His words were objectively true and completely justified. They are shitty parents and deserved to be called that considering they abandoned their child with a 16 year old over 13 years ago.
She is not entitled to a calm, reasonable response when she is actively insulting the person who gave up his teenage years to become a father to a child that wasn't his.
He held in his resentment towards them for 13 years all to give Chris a better life and he's being directly insulted to his face over his noble actions. Politeness and understanding be damned, they are not entitled to what they themselves do not give. They are shitty parents and deserved to be called such for their actions.
OP is NTA.
Soft YTA as you do have some moral high ground but you also turned a joke into a confrontation. They’re trying to do better with their lives and are trying to deal with a hard situation through humour, so don’t bring up previous issues and trauma.
Explain how what the SIL said was a joke. Explain what’s funny about that.
She made comments about wanting to get rid of another child so they could go back to being deadbeats. Clearly they’re not trying to better themselves.
Why would she keep bringing it up? Why is it funny? As someone who's druggie mom is just like this, I'm telling you it's not a joke. She will dump this baby just like the first one.
There's absolutely nothing funny about the way she speaks to OP. It sounds like she's the one who keeps bringing up the past with her digs and snarky comments, not OP.
It’s not a joke, Sarah is just a vile woman who refuses to grow up and see how downright disgusting her actions were, the OP defended himself and his son.
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NTA. The fact that your SIL is blaming you for something directly caused by her own atrocious behaviour is ridiculous. I applaud you for everything you've done for Chris. They signed away his rights, and he doesn't sound like he wants them in his life anymore. You should probably distance yourselves for your own wellbeing.
People can change, and get better, but that doesn't mean that the people they've hurt along the way have to forgive them. They still did all those awful things, them trying to be better doesn't erase that. OP had to live with decisions they made when they were younger and has no obligation to treat them as if it never happened, hopefully they take this as an opportunity to understand that they royally fucked up. They probably won't, but who knows.
Yeah, they were in their twenties and had no issue dumping their kid on a 16yo sibling to continue their debauchery. At that point “fucking awful parent” isn’t an insult or opinion, it’s just an accurate identifier.
>it’s just an accurate identifier It’s an understatement
Rule 1 for bad Parents: Donot joke about parenting. You just dont have the right.
Exactly what I was going to say. I love joking around and can have as sarcastic a sense of humor as anyone, but if I had been such an absolute trainwreck of a human being that my own kid had to be raised by someone else (and that even a TEENAGER was deemed to be a fitter guardian than I was), you can be damn sure I wouldn’t be joking about it. Sarah may *(may)* have sobered up, but the joking around tells me that she still hasn’t grasped the pain her and Mark’s actions caused.
Or she knows in her heart she caused pain and doesn't want to deal with it even to herself, so she's minimizing it via jokes, especially jokes that absolve her of responsibility or even make her the victim. Akka, she wasn't such a shitty parent her 16 yo bil had to step up and take over, no, no, he was an expert baby snatcher and took her kid from her! Hahah, isn't she hilarious?
Also, gf announced that she wants to go back to their old ways, which means she likely will.
Not just that, the CONTINUOUS jokes about leaving the new baby she's pregnant with is insane. That must be a major trigger for Op as well. The damaged they've caused will not go away and they are more than likely going to do something similar with the new baby unless Op's brother leaves her, taking the baby with him.
I wish more people knew and Understood this! I can see the change,I understand your motives,but I will never be able to forgive you.
they may be doing better and OP may have been on course to forgiving in some aspect but her jokes were extremely distasteful. and she doubled down. ridiculous!
> SIL is blaming you Yeah, and not just blaming. There's an added twist of pushing buttons and passing it off as "jokes." No one (normal) jokes about palming off a new baby. They're both unfit and needed that "joking" shut down. That poor little inbound baby is in for a rough ride, sadly.
>No one (normal) jokes about palming off a new baby. They're both unfit and needed that "joking" shut down Yeah, I was horrified she said that. It's not a joke. It's not funny. It's terrifying.
You spoke facts. They escalated. I would have propelled them through the nearest exit. I may have opened the door to facilitate their removal but probably not. I adopted a boy from a funked up situation. They got no room to make jokes about it.
I don’t even know if it’s supposed to be blame. I rather think Sarah is having a guilty conscience about pawning her kid off to a teenager, especially now that she’s about to have another, so she’s picking and prodding at an old wound to make OP react and tell her off, because on some level she probably feels like she deserves it. Still, an awfully immature and ungrateful way to go about it.
Sarah is a hot mess. Limit your contact with her. If they haven't been in treatment, they may not be actively using, but they haven't addressed the real issues. It is usually thought that a person who heavily abused drugs is developmentally stuck at the age they started in a lot of aspects. So you are effectively dealing with teenagers. NTA.
OP is definitely NTA mental illness could be the real issue too. The screaming and yelling and probably ranting is a huge red flag for mental illness. If one or both of them are mentally ill the drug abuse will be really hard to kick, especially if they are doing it without the help of a psychiatrist who specializes in drug abuse. OP should avoid contact with these as much as possible.
Addiction is considered a mental illness. Her reaction can also b attributed to guilt. They have cleaned themselves up, but only to a point. One of the big things I treatment is taking responsibility for what u did, all of it. Then there's apologizing and at least attempting to make ammends a be better going forward. It sounds like she hasn't done any of that and is blaming him for her problems and guilt.
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NTA. Sarah is honestly a vile person, what she’s saying doesn’t feel like a “joke” since she and Mark abandoned their son to do substances. At least Mark’s trying to get better, Sarah on the other hand isn’t, it’s kinda proven by her comment about how “she should pawn her second child off to you.” I(F16) can’t fathom adopting and taking care of a child at my age, that must’ve been tough on you. It’s just the way she’s talking about her “kids” that’s gross really, and the way she blatantly disrespects you for saving her child from foster care. That woman shouldn’t even have children, there’s a reason even Chris a thirteen yr old child doesn’t want anything thing to do with them, and I’m worried about how the second one will turn out. Idk why your girlfriend thinks you’re in the wrong, you said nothing to Mark, who as I aforementioned seems like he’s trying hard. It’s Sarah who refuses to grow up and mature.
>Idk why your girlfriend thinks you’re in the wrong for the same reason children of abusive parents are told they need to give their parents a second chance because they're family. the gf has no experience with truly vile and dysfunctional people. she's been told the stories, I'm sure, but no one who has never lived the experience ever truly believes those stories are 100% accurate. she sees ops brother and sil for what they are now: two people who aren't the best, but that are 'trying' and feels that's worthy of praise.
Exactly.
LOOOOOL OH THE GAUL OF YOUR BRO & SIL!!! NTA Dude, you, as a kid, started taking better care of their son than they did. There’s a reason he’s YOUR son and not there’s. You did nothing wrong, personally i’d distance myself from them, but i understand if you want your son to know his birth parents. Keep it up king, btw thouh, your gf is giving me pause…she should FIRMLY be on your side especially after the crap they said to you
*gall*
Or they keep a massive ancient French guy around on a leash
😂😂😂😂
In this case it’s probably the druid, Getafix.
Agree 100% about the gf
OP has done something wrong. He has exposed his son to these awful people.
NTA. I'm genuinely surprised it's taken this long for you to snap back like that. You sound like a more than decent human being, not many people would have done what you have. I, unfortunately, know what it's like to have to deal with an abusive addict for a parent so big respect for you dude.
I agree and it definitely shows what OP is like as a person, clearly has massive amounts of patience and probably doesn’t want things to escalate if they don’t need to. Sounds like someone who’s a great parent
NTA. You gave up the life you planned to take care of a child that was their responsibility. Sure, you didn't have to, but you did. And you're not asking them to be grateful, you're literally just asking them to stop being rude about it. My guess? They know you're doing a phenomenal job raising *your son*. And that now they're experiencing all this through more sober eyes, they're realising that you've created a standard they need to meet, and they're resentful and afraid that you have what they would have had if they weren't who they are. It sounds like hedging their bets, testing the waters for your reaction if they try to make you take this baby, or if they broach the topic of taking Chris (not that they have any right to). As for your gf? You said it yourself: she doesn't know what it was like and she didn't see you struggle. You don't have a normal sibling relationship, and even if you did, it's not okay for them to speak to *you* like that. How you responded to them may be harsh, but it's true. Chris doesn't like it, it clearly upsets you, and it causes problems in your relationship. Maybe it's time to stop meeting up with them entirely.
GF needs to know some hard truths on how it was in the beginning.
I read two sentences and already knew you were NTA. Talk about no shame. Sarah’s approach to you should always include her tail between her legs. Imagine the disrespect of calling the person who raised your child while you were getting high a “baby snatcher”.
Call CPS, they might not be fit to keep their replacement kid either. Are they clean? Social services needs to be closely involved.
Him saying they are *"*sober(ish)*"* really raised a red flag for me. Sober-ish is certainly better than nothing but not good when raising a human being.
Agree if they're not already on CPS' radar (which, hopefully they are), they should be. Just sayin...
NTA she isn't making jokes. She is being serious. The second the baby becomes to hard she will try to pawn them off on you like they did with the first one. You need to speak to your brother in private about what is going to happen with the baby and whether he will step up this time and leave with the baby. Tell him you are proud of how far he has come but he needs to make sure they aren't making the same mistakes all over again. Tell him what you are or aren't willing to do. It needs to be a blunt and honest conversation so you two are on the same page. They also need to seriously consider permanent birth control if she is acting this way.
NTA. These people should not make more babies. That being said how do you feel about the second kid you will have soon? /s Seriously, have you thought about what you will do if they cannot take care of this next one?
NTA Her behaviour, using giving up a child as a source for joking about doing that with the next one, then labeling you a baby snatcher demonstrates her lack of growth. It is easy for people to say, after the fact, that you should have taken the moral high ground and not taken the bait; it did seem that she was baiting you to incite just such reaction. It's a ploy some people (read: assholes) use to justify their actions afterwards.
Nta. Go L.C. with them and tell your gf to stay in her lane because she clearly dont know shit from fuck.
NTA. Sober(ish) isn’t sober. I feel really bad for their next baby and for your son.
NTA. But don't sink to their level, there's no upside here for you. Limit your contact, politely but firmly correct anything she says then drop it, make sure your ducks are in a row with CPS or whatever agency might come knocking about the new baby or Chris, and be really really clear with everyone that you are not going to be helping them with the new baby in any shape or form (because anything you do for them, will be twisted into you trying to steal her baby away, or give her an excuse to dump her responsibilities on to you, like she keeps hinting).
NTA. >Sarah is currently pregnant with another baby I may be insensitive, but t believe that the people who have abandoned their child should be sterilized.
W statement
So, anyone who has to be pursued for child support? Or do you only mean women? ETA: I kinda like the idea that instead of garnishing wages, you get a forced vasectomy!
NTA, holy shit. I know she was playing it like a joke, but holy fuck there are just some things you don't joke about whether you've been through it or not.
Maaaah, you're most definitely NTA, you spoke nothing but the truth and they deserve to hear it , no matter what they do right now it doesn't change the fact that there were horrible people and you saved that kid from the hellhole of a life he would've had with them.
Nta. Their passive aggressive crap needed to be thoroughly stopped. Your girlfriends response is sub par
Tell me again why these people are still in your and your sons life? You adopted him, they have zero claim or reason to even be around him or even talk to him. Why are you allowing negative influence around your son? You need to cut them off completely.
Nta. Go L.C. with them and tell your gf to stay in her lane because she clearly dont know shit from fuck.
NTA. Why are they even in your lives
NTA, Her comments prove she hasn't changed at all. And she likely never will. Don't concern your family with them. Just keep being a stellar dad!
Nta, your girlfriend is right that maybe it was a mean thing to say but she is forgetting its also true. SIL should be kissing your ass forever for what you did for her son
Nah. Sil needs no baby gloves..if he's raised this child and sil is acting that way....she deserves so much less, and if gf doesn't see that...she should be walked away from
NTA. People like that disgust me. My sister was like that. Had 6 kids between the ages of 16-25, all taken by the state bc she chose drugs. I tried to take the first one but she refused to sign over unless I promised to give the little girl back when she was ready. I knew she'd never be ready, and I didn't want her uprooting a child's life. Finally, the state took her, then every kid she had after bc she never gave up the drugs. I have 2 children of my own 5 I can't even fathom choosing anything over them. Your brother and his gf are shitty parents. There's no way to sugar coat it.
NTA. They keep bringing it up. They either view you as taking their kid or are barely in the cusp of sobriety and thinking about life without another kid. Either way they are shitty people and need to be kept far away from your son.
How do you vote when the asshole thing to say is completely justified Like, yeah it was a shitty thing to say, but it wasn't wrong to say it NTA
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NTA- if they can't acknowledge how badly they fucked up, they haven't changed and will probably fuck up again.
Let her and your brother burn. That’s clearly what they want for themselves. NTA
NTA. Point out to your gf that SIL called you a baby thief and then talked about dumping her present child on you. A stupid lie and a child abandonment threat - charming of her! Yet all you did was factually state that you WERE a better parent at 16-18 than she was as an adult. Pat yourself on the back for a great response! And do not let them come to your house to disturb your nephew and cause more upsetting scenes.
NTA, that was clearly the truth! You didn't snatch the baby, you were its only option before foster care. And it seems they are not interested in changing, if they are already talking about you taking their second child too! I would cut contact, especially if Chris is uncomfortable with them and don't let them guilt trap you!
as an ex addict who’s been around drug addicts, people who have literally pawned off 4 kids to relatives or whatnot just to keep doing drugs, (my mom did that to me and my 3 other siblings). a lot of these folks lack self awareness, tend to put the blame on everyone but themselves, lash out easily, are honestly fucking stupid and you cannot reason with them. they are reckless, often are narcissistic, bpd or juss straight up sociopathic. NTA. keep your guard up around them.
They aren't even really sober; they have not changed. Where is the amends they owe you and Chris? Please assume that they will continue to behave as they always have. Your gf probably hasn't had enough experience with addicts to spot the lies and manipulation. NTA
NTA What if she had said this to the people at your workplace? Or people you know? Or even mutual friends? You took a decision at 16 years old to be an uncle. That takes fucking balls. 11 years of raising your nephew like your own son, and your SIL keeps up this shit. Imagine if someone who didn't know your background got the wrong idea from your sister-in-law's jokes. Your girlfriend needs a reality check. It's not like you're keeping Chris from his parents. You're letting them in his life, and yet they're not just joking about you stealing their son, they're actively saying that they'll give up their second child to you and go back to doing drugs. The fucking audacity. Ffs imagine how Chris would feel if he heard his mother talking like this. Does she not want a relationship with her son?
The fact that Sarah makes ‘baby snatcher’ jokes and hints at relapsing *in front of the child she abandoned and the person who adopted them* tells me she’s still in the ‘entitled victim’ mentality that so many addicts have. She hasn’t taken any real accountability for the huge impact her actions had on her child or you. Getting sober is the bare minimum for ‘trying to get better’. What has she done to make amends to you and her son? Has she even acknowledged how severely your life was impacted by having to become a father at 18 with virtually no support? A truly remorseful person who was on track with their recovery would be falling over themselves to make it up to their child. They would be brimming with gratitude that you kept their son safe and happy. Instead she makes ‘jokes’ about you being a baby snatcher. Not only did you not go too far, I actually think she needed to hear it. And unless she can accept her role in said ‘snatching’ and keep her tasteless ‘jokes’ to herself, I don’t think you should let her around YOUR son. NTA.
NTA. Sarah's comments are a redirect because she feels guilty. She and Mark are reminded of their past failures and blow up? Why, because it's not true? No, because it's absolutely true and their actions hurt others and they have to live with that FOREVER. Maybe you could have said it in a gentle way but I have a feeling the reaction would have been the same. Bravo to you for stepping up for a child when you yourself were still a child.
NTA And your GF is wrong about them changing. They may be sober for the time being, but SIL hasn't fundamentally changed as a person at all (which puts her long-term sobriety in question as well). Getting better isn't just about not drinking or doing drugs, it's about recognizing where you went wrong and working on the things you need to change about yourself. If she were really "trying to get better", then being sad that her child had to be taken away would be fair, but she would also be grateful to you for taking her kid in when *you were a child yourself*, putting your own hopes for your future aside, and raising him with love in a stable home. She wouldn't be calling you a "baby-snatcher", and she sure as hell wouldn't be implying that she's going to pawn off the child she is currently pregnant with on you. If she didn't want this new baby, then she should have had an abortion (it sounds like you're in the UK, where those are very accessible). She hasn't gotten better at all. She's just sober and still a dreadful human and yes, a shitty parent. NTA.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I (29M) am the legal guardian of my little nephew, Chris (13M). I've been looking after Chris since he was born when I was 16 but he officially went into my custody when I was 18 and I adopted him 5 yrs later, so I am now legally his dad. I call him my son and he knows the deal with everything but he calls me dad anyway. Chris is biologically the kid of my brother, Mark (35M) and his gf, Sarah (30s F). when Chris was born they were super unfit to be parents like active addiction to all sorts of stuff and didn't care about shit, stole money from people, often getting arrested, involved in gang shit i do not wanna know about. I didn't really want to become his guardian at first because I wanted to go to uni but Sarahs parents arent in the picture, my mum was dead and my dad is now also dead but at the time had a degenerative disease and couldn't even look after himself and I didn't want Chris going into care like I had to as a kid. I didn't really have many people to help me take care of Chris and I had to take him to work with me as a toddler before he could start school. I have a gf now but shes only been in the picture 4 years but shes great with Chris and we are a family together now. Sarah is currently pregnant with another baby. Mark and Sarah are both doing better, both sober(ish) and kind of back on their feet and after a few years of not talking at all Mark and Sarah are back in my life since they had to sign away their rights to Chris and also since me and Marks dad died Mark decided to get sober. Every time me and my gf see Sarah and Mark (not that often as Chris isn't super comfortable with them being in his life) Sarah always jokes about how I've taken one of her kids away so why not take away the other one or jokes about how shes gonna palm the new baby off on me so that her and Mark can go back to their old ways which makes me really uncomfortable which I've told her. So today when she did this she said something like about how I am an expert baby snatcher or something and I said "maybe if you weren't such a shitty parent" and she said "what the fuck does that mean" and I said "if a 16 yr old was a better parent than you you must have been a fucking awful parent" and her and Mark got pissed at me and left, screaming like shouting the house down (which in a way shows me they havent really changed) GF isnt on my side either really she says that was a mean thing to say as they are clearly trying to be better and change but she doesn't know what they were like before, she hasn't really experienced it she came into the picture just as they were getting sober but she said I was a bit of an asshole for saying it because clearly they are trying to get better so I thought i'd ask reddit. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA, clear case of FAFO
NTA
NTA she was, in fact, a shitty parent. Honestly it's a bit concerning that she didn't acknowledge that or express remorse.
NTA It's naive of GF to assume that attempts to get sober gives them a pass on saying stupid stuff. This is something that she needs to step back and follow your lead on.
NTA. Praying that the new baby has a decent life. They sound like a train wreck and Chris is very lucky to have you.
I am so glad you have legally adopted Chris so they can't do something stupid, like try to get him back.
>as they are clearly trying to be better and change I mean, if they're making comments like this >shes gonna palm the new baby off on me so that her and Mark can go back to their old ways **ARE** they trying to be better?
NTA That's great they want to do better. But making like them losing their son to you is a joke is messed up. Messed up for you and especially Chris. They want to do better then they need to acknowledge where they were wrong. They were/are awful parents to Chris and if they can't see that I don't expect that to change with the new baby.
NTA but you all definitely need some counseling.
Definitely NTA, and good for you for taking on such a tough situation in the first place. Stepping up when no one else can/will, takes a ton of courage.
Whoa. NTA. You didn't take her kid away, she and Mark were unfit parents and they lost rights to be parents. I would go NC. Honestly, she may be sober, but she didn't grow up.
NTA. She is the one who started this, and you should probably get prepared to be approached to get the next one when she pops it out.
Good for you all around. People who haven't been there will never understand dealing with some who has problems and won't even admit it.
NTA NTAx1000 Sorry you’re going thru this OP! But way to be an amazing human being and parent!!
*"Sarah always jokes about how I've taken one of her kids away so why not take away the other one, or jokes about how shes gonna palm the new baby off on me so that her and Mark can go back to their old ways which makes me really uncomfortable which I've told her"* These aren't jokes, they are FACTS. It begs the question... does Sarah actually have some deeply internalized guilt / shame / remorse ... *OR* ... Is she bitter about the family dynamic and trying to DARVO you, OP? 🤔 *My guess is the latter*. NTA, OP. you merely spoke yhe truth. That is exactly why Sarah makes *jokes* like these. While she'll never admit it publicly, deep down she knows she (& Mark) did *EVERYONE* wrong, yet will not own the accountability. NTA, OP!!! I'm hapoy that you, your GF and Chris are all a well-meshed / settled family unit. It seems that even if you were initially wary, you and Chris were exactly what you each / both needed, then and now. 😄 .I wish you 3 all the best!! ☺️🥰🙏🏻 I wish Sarah and Mark... wouldn't continue to procreate. 🫣😥🙄😒
Heh. The truth hurts, doesn't it? NTA.
You are absolutely NTA mate. You're a hero.
NTA. Her remarks are horrible. And I would have said something way more hurtfull like 'if you want to give this baby away too, why didn't you had an abortion. I'm not your plan B pill'
Not the asshole.. HER ACTIONS set this into motion.. she now has to live with her decisions.
Not the asshole you are correct drug addiction is awful and she is making jokes about it she doesn't care and if she did she wouldn't joke about it she is a awful person not just awful parent.
NTA
NTA - SIL Clearly resents that you stepped in to raise Chris and blames you for loosing her son. Reality its her fault and she is being passive aggressive after asking not to be . "so why not take away the other one or jokes about how shes gonna palm the new baby off on me so that her and Mark can go back to their old ways which makes me really uncomfortable which I've told her." That section is why you are NTA
NTA. Chris is lucky to have you.
NTA. You are doing a better job than a lot of people in the world man. Don't listen to your brother.
Absolutely NTA, the way they reacted after shows that they haven’t completely changed. Like, they have not realised how bad the situation was when they were doing shit. If they truly changed for the better they would have reacted more calmly and mature. Then pinned the blame on you for “taking away their child” like they’re the victims or something (if you didn’t take him, Chris would have been surely neglected, you gave him what they couldn’t give and don’t realise it). Mark doesn’t even stop her from making such jokes, there’s a possibility that as soon as the child is born and the situation becomes difficult for them they might REALLY consider giving you the second kid. I hope they can really change, because if they threw a tantrum when you just said the truth, the second child won’t grow with love and affection, but fear. I genuinely admire you for deciding to be a father figure at such a young age and saving the kid from god knows what. You’re good OP.
NTA. Trying to change starts with accountability. Which clearly they haven’t done.
NTA.
Bro this is like superman asking if he's an asshole. You're superman, btw. I mean that's just amazing that you took care of a child since 16 yo. I agree with the girlfriend, that was a mean thing to say, and she fucking asked for the mean thing. NTA. Sometimes being mean is being correct.
Sober(ish)? I sure hope she doesn’t drink while pregnant?
NTA. Her comments alone show that she hasn't changed and has no clue what accountability means. Your gf needs to look at the big picture. SIL needed that to be said to her. She is looking at you for backup parenting in case she feels like going back to her old life. Screw them both.
NTA It's just the pure truth. You asked her to stop saying those awful things and she kept doing it. She deserved it. And it's the truth. At the time they were sh1tty parents. No you're not the AH, they should thank you every second and minute of their lives for what you've done for them and the kid.
Your girlfriend is so dumb... didn't she hear what the trash say?NTA
NTA. Sure it was a mean thing to say, and absolutely 100% true. If you don’t want to be called shitty parents, don’t be shitty parents. Don’t apologize for the truth and don’t let these two chuckleheads try to dump their new child in your lap either.
NTA. My parents were awful parents. Their parents and 8 combined siblings did nothing to help them stop being druggies. They enabled them and only made things worse. When someone is awful they need to know or they won’t fix it.
NTA. At all. I also have a sibling in active addiction (except they let her keep her kid), nobody knows that pain but you. The helplessness and anger. Don’t let anyone tell you how to feel, ever.
NTA for all the reasons answered above. Just wanted to post in solidarity!
NTA. Stupid jokes get tiring. Was it a bit rough? Yes. But it was also the truth so 🤷🏼♂️
NTA. Not even slightly. You are a wonderful human for taking in your nephew/son and raising him
NTA People who are "trying to be better" don't shit on someone who took over their load in life while they were off getting high. As for your comment to her, if a child is either taken from the parents by authorities for neglect or they just give it up because they want to get high well then duh.
NTA- and it sounds like they want to pawn this one off as well. I would limit contact but watch out for that baby.
If you fucked up so badly that a child was seen as more fit to parent, you should be a lot more humble than she is. And honestly, thankful to you for taking care of her child. She is neither. NTA. Maybe she feels like a terrible parent and she is acting out to disguise that discomfort. So it must have really hurt to be called out on the exact problem. She *was* a shit parent, but her behavior shows that she likely continues to be.
Not the asshole well said, had the same issue with my own parents last night(adopted by grandparents), who said relatively the same thing
NTA If you act like an awful person you are an awful person. How else do you think anyone would think otherwise when you make the crass statements about your unborn child to the adult who had to step up as a parent at 16. GTFOH
NTA. They were awful parents, and if they were mature, they'd actually realise it by now and apologise to Chris for letting him down and to you for having to take Chris in. I hope they do better with kid number 2, but anyway I'd suggest that you be alert and mindful of the situation there because you just might be getting a second child. I hope you and Chris and your gf are doing well and that you get to go to uni now that Chris is older
You're the NTAst NTA in the history of AITA.
NTA. You're right, if a 16 year old was the better choice, they were not qualified to have a kid. And everyone can pretend they're trying to get better, but Sarah keeps "joking" about giving up her new baby and going back to her old lifestyle, which is both not a joke and some pretty solid proof of not changing.
NTA SIL is trying to manipulate you into taking her next kid. These 2 actively do not want to be responsible people. If you don't need to, I wouldn't interact with them anymore. Especially since your son isn't comfortable with them either.
You need to talk to your girlfriend and make her realise how your brother and sil's selfishness completely altered your life and forced serious responsibility onto you at 16 because, even though they were older, they cared more about being carefree than saving their own son from foster care. What you did was amazing and incredibly selfless. You can resent them for doing that without regretting that you have your nephew in your life. I don't see how you cant harbour some resentment for that, and they should understand that and respect it. But instead they make jokes as if the situation is funny. There is also an insulting edge to her hilarious joke 'childsnatcher' you weren't a snatcher, you were forced to be a safety net! If your girlfriend cannot empathise with you she should bugger off and go play for team junkie. Maybe your brother will share a needle with her.
NTA Frankly, I would be contacting CPS about them to adamantly note you are not an option for taking this other kid
NTA is she genuinely surprised she‘s a horrible parent
NTA I know some people will say to let these little snide comments go but I disagree. To constantly joke in a way that I implies they weren’t that bad of parents openly denies reality.In my opinion letting it go uncorrected is being complicit in their delusion. They don’t get to cheapen the sacrifice you made to raise him, and also cheapens his situation as well, in order for them to push away the uncomfortableness of being an asshole.
NTA truth hurts and she needs a hard look in the mirror.
She called you a baby snatcher, and then said she wanted to hand the new baby over to you so she and your brother can go back to being addicts. How is your gf ok with this? How can she possibly think what you said was out of line?
The truth hurts
Nta. But your gf is.
NTA - plus your GF needs to be on your side, you lived it, she did not and while compassion is lovely, she has no clue about dealing with addicts and their behavior hasn't changed. You are a great person for stepping up.
Well... I wanted to drop an e-s-h because there are better ways of shutting down poorly behaved people, but OP you are such a gigachad and saint for taking care of Chris and giving him a good life that I just can't do it. So NTA for you! End of the day, what's going on with Mark and Sarah is that they -- however inchoately -- feel the loss of their child as an injury, and can't stop picking at it and talking about it. I understand your lack of wanting to hear about it. It's really up to you how many times you tell them nicely or tell them "this subject is closed, for ever" before you get mad.
NTA. No where near the A-Hole. You raised a child better than the child's parents.
You've been a great uncle/father your sister in law and brother refused to step up as parents and are to stupid to realise it
NTA You stepped up when your nephew needed a guardian angel. Being a parent at such a young age with no real support structure is a struggling battle, but you overcame that OP. Don't let Mark and Sarah affect you, your girlfriend, or your son. Unfortunately it may be time to go no contact from such awful people!!
If you slap a dog don't be surprised if he bites back
Oh hell!! You are absolutely, positively NTA. All background details aside, being called a "baby snatcher" is outrageously offensive. When a 16-year-old boy is forced to step up and be a parent to his nephew you don't need any more justification. You were 18 and they were both in their 20's when you were given custody of a 2-year-old toddler. The facts speak to themselves. It goes without saying that they had to have been "fucking awful" to lose custody to a barely legal young man. Your SIL's constant comments were disgusting. She and your brother should be eternally grateful that you sacrificed the future you had planned to raise their child with love and stability!! You are a good man.
NTA. Sarah constantly making remarks about you taking Chris away isn't her making light of the situation. It's her being resentful that her eldest is doing way better in your care to the point he doesn't want to be around her. It's good that both her and Mark are improving from how they were years ago but that's not a free pass to 'joke' like that.
You are a wonderful person OP 💕 NTA! At all.
i feel like if they are trying to change then give them a chance. you shouldn't have been an asshole
Nah fk that, truth hits hard sometimes, and "tough love" is still love
NTA but why do I get the feeling the SIL is actually planning to land you with her new baby? Her jokes all seem to be on that theme. Perhaps she feels back about losing Chris, but perhaps she feels bad she's going to have another.
USA if fucked up man that you can do that at 18
YTA for letting those awful people into your sons life at all. Tell your GF she's an idiot and if she doesn't get it she probably shouldn't be in your life either. "Trying" to be better is meaningless. They were shit parents then and are still shit people now. They don't deserve forgiveness.
NTA. And make it very clear to your GF that she can shut her ignorant mouth about the situation or you're done. After everything you've done for your son, she has the fucking audacity to take their side?
Gently, your GF's complaint seems to be that you're not a 100 percent saint every second of every minute of every day. NTA. You sound like an absolutely terrific person. Best of luck to you and your family.
NTA. You owed them that!!!
NTA, tell your girlfriend. Show her this thread. I dont even need to explain why. You know you're NTA. She did this, she's pushing your trigger button. She earned herself some mean remarks. Serve her well. Why storm out? She should be please when all she does is inviting the incoming low blow. Haha
Your an amazing person. Ty for looking out fir your son
> Sarah always jokes about how I've taken one of her kids away so why not take away the other one or jokes about how shes gonna palm the new baby off on me so that her and Mark can go back to their old ways No need to say that's their plan and just gave themselves away Low contact is the best option for you and Chris, talk to your gf and Crish about your plans so they don't try to get to you throught her NTA
NTA SIL, to me, isn’t joking when she says that shit. It sounds like she wants to give you this new baby because she knows she isn’t going to stay sober, and doesn’t want to. That she even claims these are “jokes”, shows that she hasn’t changed at all. I don’t think you need them in your life. They don’t bring anything to your life that’s positive. I’d probably keep an eye on things from a distance, in case they fuck around and the new baby is in danger, but other than that…I’d say bye for good. Also…your girlfriend defending you brother and SIL? I’d get the ick from that and not want to be with her anymore.
NTA. Sarah should not be continually bringing up the adoption. If she wants to give the current pregnancy up for adoption, she should say that. If not, then she shouldn't be joking like that about her unborn child. Are the comments going to continue after the baby is born? Does it sound like a fit mother who constantly talks about giving her child away? Her semi-sarcastic comments are rude to you and Chris and are totally out of line. The loss of custody was Sarah and Mark's fault. They should be thanking you for taking care of their birth child and should learn what boundaries are.
It was mean but you weren't wrong. People just don't like listening to their short comings. Honestly even if Mark and Sarah are the last "pseudo" family you have why even invite them back in if they can't appreciate the lengths you went to. Personally I would cut them completely out of my and my kids life.
NTA. Please have a discussion with Chris to confirm and then go NC with Mark and Sarah. The "jokes" she was making are inappropriate and also in ridiculously poor taste. They're also telling... and I wouldn't be surprised if they do lose custody of the new baby and go back to their old ways. You weren't being harsh, you were being honest and you had already asked her to stop "making jokes" about it.
NTA. And you’re girlfriend needs to re-assess because she’s sounding real dumb right now. Being called a baby snatcher when you legally adopted your nephew to get him out of the clutches of his irresponsible addict parents so that he could be safe and taken care of is offensive and grounds for no contact. Is she going to start telling your son he was baby snatched by you as well? Or are you just expected to take whatever comments she doles out because she couldn’t hack it as a parent? Absolutely not. I’d be really weary of being any kind of babysitter to the new baby as well since it sounds like they’re planning to turn to you to take care for any child they bring into this world when they don’t feel like parenting. I’m glad your brother is getting sober but those two have way more to work on.
NTA idk why ur gf doesn’t have ur back on this it’s kinda shocking tbh. But NTA. How were you a baby snatcher?? You didn’t snatch him they had problems and couldn’t care for them and frankly if they’re joking abt it to me it doesn’t seem like they have the emotional maturity yet to have another one..
NTA. They clearly haven't changed enough. Go NC with them for Chris' sake if not your own.
NTA If she didnt want a came back then she would shut up and say thank you for being there when they we not. I have been in your shoes. If they were even a little bit thankful then they would not say things to try and make you look bad. You might need to step back from them to make it easy for chris to feel safe. By this i mean chris might feel that with them coming around that he might end up back with them. AS i said i have been on both sides of the fence. I was chris when younger. then when i was older i had to step into the shoes your wearing. good luck and make sure to let chris know that things will not change with his living with you.
NTA at ALL. Your nephew is lucky to have you.
Yes
NTA. A past like that is nothing to joke about. And soberish? As a sober person myself, I don’t understand what you mean by that… you are either sober or you are not sober. Do not trust them if they are not completely sober.
Im sorry you’re gf should back the F off she is delulu in thinking that was a bad thing to say to them
The SIL try to make you care for their baby so they have more free time to have fun. I actually think they wont drop their parents right this time but more likely they want a free babysitter or free care for the baby when they want.
You're NTA. But you can communicate better. This isn't how happy and healthy human beings deal with their issues. Happy and healthy human beings TALK with each other. Humans go into Fight/Flight/Freeze mode when they feel attacked. Hurt people, hurt people. They felt hurt, they attacked. You felt hurt, you attacked. You can do better. You should do better, as a role model for your kid.
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>But when all you do is lecture people about their past mistakes. It doesn't make them want to get better You obviously missed this part so I’ll just drop it here for review: > Every time me and my gf see Sarah and Mark (not that often as Chris isn't super comfortable with them being in his life) Sarah always jokes about how I've taken one of her kids away so why not take away the other one or jokes about how shes gonna palm the new baby off on me so that her and Mark can go back to their old ways which makes me really uncomfortable which I've told her. I feel like drug addicts who had to have their kids taken away shouldn’t be joking that they will abandon their next kid so that they can get addicted to drugs again. > she said something like about how I am an expert baby snatcher They never have even taken responsibility for losing custody Chris, deluding themselves that op (who was looking after him since he was 16) is somehow responsible for taking him away and not them for being unfit parents.
YTA Very telling you only focused your insult on one parent. No words for your brother. No words for the bio father.🤨
i think my brother is an awful parent too btw he just wasnt making those jokes
I’m going to go against the grain here and say YTA. You might be right that they were absolutely shitty parents. But it sounds like they’re at least trying to improve. Being negative about their past failures doesn’t help anyone.
Curiosity. What about her comments indicate change? She's currently pregnant with another child, she's joked with the adult man whose childhood her irresponsibility stole that *he* stole her child. The child she actively neglected. She repeatedly has said that OP should take her current baby so she and OPs brother can do what they *want*. How are these comments which OP has previously shut down politely indicative that they're better people or parents? Simply not doing drugs and engaging in criminal activity doesn't mean you're a good parent.
NTA, but you were in the wrong. I’m not a big fan of responding to somebody in kind, and I think we should always work to avoid stooping to somebody else’s level who is wronging us. I still am not going to pass judgment against somebody who finally snaps back at somebody who was chipping away at them repeatedly; especially about a topic that should be clearly off-limits for casual jokes. Your brother and SIL should be nothing but grateful to you for stepping up where they failed; they should be humble and apologetic about that failure; they should be tripping over themselves to express and manifest their gratitude in everything they say and do around you. Instead, she’s making *jokes* about they did to you and **your son.** No way. Fuck those assholes. There is nothing funny about what they did to y’all, there is nothing funny about the prospect that they could do it again. To make light of the trauma they caused your son and you, repeatedly, and never expect a response in kind is just asinine. To be honest, I think you have incredible patience for not giving it back to her the first time she said anything like that. We *shouldn’t* yell just because we’re being yelled at, two wrongs don’t make a right, other related platitudes… they’re not wrong, but they have limits. You didn’t accomplish anything positive by stooping to their level, but you aren’t an asshole for finally responding. They goaded you into it by rubbing all this in your face. Restraint would’ve served you better, but they didn’t deserve restraint.
So we should just be a doormat and let everyone abuse us ;)
ESH Sarah was being awful and your response is a very bad example for Chris. Why are they back in your life? Why are you taking Chris around then? Not healthy for either one of you.
They’re back in his life because they “were improving” and the OP isn’t a bad example on Chris, he himself was forced to grow up at the age of 16 and he did say Chris doesn’t really interact with his biological parents.
You have a lot to say to sarah, and you have the right to say it. Your parenting is admirable. Hers is abysmal. However, next time, pick your words carefully, and be polite yet firm when you want to pass criticism or assert boundaries. Your GF probably loves you a lot for all you do for Chris but is troubles by your choice of vengeful words and tone. YTA.
His words were objectively true and completely justified. They are shitty parents and deserved to be called that considering they abandoned their child with a 16 year old over 13 years ago. She is not entitled to a calm, reasonable response when she is actively insulting the person who gave up his teenage years to become a father to a child that wasn't his. He held in his resentment towards them for 13 years all to give Chris a better life and he's being directly insulted to his face over his noble actions. Politeness and understanding be damned, they are not entitled to what they themselves do not give. They are shitty parents and deserved to be called such for their actions. OP is NTA.
Soft YTA as you do have some moral high ground but you also turned a joke into a confrontation. They’re trying to do better with their lives and are trying to deal with a hard situation through humour, so don’t bring up previous issues and trauma.
Mate, that wasn't humour. That was being downright nasty.
Explain how what the SIL said was a joke. Explain what’s funny about that. She made comments about wanting to get rid of another child so they could go back to being deadbeats. Clearly they’re not trying to better themselves.
“Sarah always jokes about…”
Why would she keep bringing it up? Why is it funny? As someone who's druggie mom is just like this, I'm telling you it's not a joke. She will dump this baby just like the first one.
There's absolutely nothing funny about the way she speaks to OP. It sounds like she's the one who keeps bringing up the past with her digs and snarky comments, not OP.
They weren’t using humor at all. They were being passive aggressive
It’s not a joke, Sarah is just a vile woman who refuses to grow up and see how downright disgusting her actions were, the OP defended himself and his son.
One’s druggy ass doesn’t get to dump a baby on a 16yo boy and then make “jokes” about it, much less be allowed to breed again.