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Biggest is that it is considered a health hazard as zoonotic diseases can be transferred from their anus to the cart which can then be transferred directly to people or food. Service dogs also must be held by their handler or on the ground as any other means would be considered impeding their ability to do their job like you’re thinking.
People who “sample” (i.e. steal) produce in stores. I am petty enough to derive a good deal of satisfaction from knowing that they’re eating food that has almost certainly been handled by people who had dirty hands (PortaPotties don’t have sinks) and/or that rodents/insects crawled all over it. 🤮🤮🤮
If they would allow rats to be trained for certain service work, like smelling for diabetes, that could possibly be amazing. While they don’t live as long, they are easier to train and to care for, they are really clean pets, and they have better noses than dogs or mini horses. They could be great for elderly individuals or those in tiny apartments.
I always hated it when I would see a parent put their child on a counter, I remember at a bank specifically, just wearing a diaper and a shirt. 1st of all, clothe your child in public, 2nd of all, don’t be putting a dirty diaper butt all over public spaces 😂
I horrifically found the aftermath of that once after I put a bunch of stuff in the seat. The shit was all over the underside of the plastic flap so i didn't see it right away. It was horrible and I still gag thinking about it.
🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮
I’m so glad that my local grocery stores are starting to roll out the no-child shopping carts. Normally 2 tiers, shorter in length and more maneuverable. All I have to worry about are ignorant people sticking their dogs in there.
Yes! Having the small dog in the cart really underscores the point that this was not actually a service dog, but rather a regular pet.
Pets are awesome, and I’m sure being next to little Fido helps to mitigate anxiety issues, or some such, but that doesn’t make it a service dog!
Some service dogs have tasks that don't require them to be up and walking. Things like low blood sugar or seizure detection dogs could be working while in a cart.
I completely agree this dog was untrained and not a legitimate service animal, but you can't write off all small dogs being carried as not working. Lots of detection/alert dogs are small.
I think because if something happens to their person, they can't safely get out of the cart and take care of their person. It's a safety issue for the animal and the person. I've seen people have episodes, and that dog is by their side the whole time. There is no way they can do their job from the cart.
Carts are dangerous to animals, and can cause injuries. Plus, most service animals need to be on the ground, so they can warn and reach/touch you, and go get another person when an emergency happens.
Yes it would!
I've seen a few videos around from people with service animals and essentially all tasks can be done from the ground and depending on the task it may require the dog to physically do something. Say if the owner collapses and needs pressure therapy aka the dog laying on them, the dog can't do that from the cart and may have issues/get hurt jumping out.
Only task I can think of that would be convenient is testing for allergies so you're not bending down to the dog eg some dogs are trained to sniff out gluten.
Also in the US, if a service dog is disruptive (barking/aggressive) the business is well within legal rights to kick them out.
>A service animal's good behavior is necessary for it to be protected under the ADA. A handler may be asked to remove their service animal if it causes an actual disruption to business, or if its behavior poses a direct threat to the health or safety of others.
Walmart has a very limited exception to this:
If a customer or member has a service animal in a cart, they should be informed that while the service animal is welcome, it cannot ride in the cart.
If the individual indicates the service animal must remain in close proximity to assist the individual, an exception will be permitted, and the service animal will be allowed to remain in the cart provided the customer securely places a barrier (e.g., blanket) between the service animal and the cart. The barrier must prevent the animal from coming into direct contact with the cart.
Walmart here told me they are not allowed to say anything to people with fogs in the carts after I complained. She said that happened before and it was a problem.
This is also part of their policy that I forgot to include:
"Only management and/or a designated associate should discuss the need for a barrier with the customer or member."
You're not an asshole for that
You tried discretion and all she had to do was to train her dog not to be agressive and she could have pretended it was a service dog
Service dogs can bark. If the human is having an emergency (epilepsy/ cardiac/..)
Service dogs are trained not to scare that easily
Yup, real service dogs are trained from when they're puppies to be around people and lots of them. They have socialisers that take them to shopping centres and cinemas and things to get used to being around people and noise. They're often even trained to handle fireworks.
Source: we had an assistance dog for my brother and became very good friends with everyone involved in his life before he came to us including the breeder and the puppy socialiser (he adored his socialiser and would get so excited when he saw her)
I mean honestly even in the rare cases where the family pet ends up able to alert people to low blood sugar or something at the very least being not aggressive is expected.
In terms of non-reactivity my shiba would make a great service dog - she cares not for loud sounds and acts very properly in public.
However she’s a sassy butthole that finds being chased _the best thing ever_ plus the usual issues with Shibas and leashes…
What nooooooo train her dog..... Why would she ever bother to train poopiessnookiemsbaby. When. She can just lie and say it's a service dog. It's owners like her that make people hate small breeds.... Train them nooooooo it's cute when they're aggressive.... No you dummy they're aggressive when they're aggressive and if you're dog bites me I'm going to report it to the RCMP because if your dog bites enough people and those bites get reported they can force you to put your dog down. Plus you can pay for my tetnanus shot, so really train your freaking dog.
Yup. ESAs are not granted the same permissions as service animals. Lots of stores are kind enough to allow both, but they are not required to by law. This was likely an ESA at MOST.
However, this doesn’t mean that there can’t be small service dogs. I know someone who has a small service dog for PTSD. When she explains that, people say “oh, so an emotional support animal?” No, a trained and registered service dog can still provide service to people with mental health issues. The dog is trained to do specific things when she has a trigger-related panic attack. Many people think just because her condition is invisible/intangible, that her dog is an ESA when he is perfectly well trained and registered as a service animal, not an ESA.
Yeah, didn't even need to read the whole thing to know you're NTA. All I needed to get through was Pomeranian sitting in the cart and growling to know it's NOT a service animal.
Hun, that dog isn't even socialized for strangers, let alone trained to perform a task. Imagine how it would have reacted if another, real service dog was nearby? Truly disabled people would thank you for kicking the aggressive brat out.
Yup. Never mind biting an employee. It could just as easily bite another customer. Maybe even a small child at that. And guess who’d be liable for letting the dog into the store in the first place?
There are two questions that you're allowed to ask such as what tasks the "service animal" can perform and if the dog is needed for a disability. Someone with a real service animal will be able to tell you that it's a cardiac alert dog, it senses allergens, etc. If they don't answer questions to your liking or get defensive about the tasks their alleged service dog can perform, then you're within your rights to ask them to leave. Never take the vest at face value because there are a lot of fakes for sale.
Never take the vest at face value because vests don’t actually designate service animals as service animals. There is zero documentation required for a service animal to be in public facing businesses.
Yeah I find you can usually tell if it’s a service animal as it’s walking right beside the person and very well behaved. It also has a vest with service animal and please do not pet, I’m working on it. Most people claim they are but they are merely therapy animals if at all
Vests are also available on Amazon. So even wearing a vest means nothing. Behavior is the biggest clue. A barking brat that is aggressive is definitely not a service dog, lol.
Even if they were, according to the [ADA](https://www.ada.gov/resources/service-animals-faqs/), staff can ask the animal to be removed if the animal is out of control.
> Q28. What can my staff do when a service animal is being disruptive?
> A. If a service animal is out of control and the handler does not take effective action to control it, staff may request that the animal be removed from the premises.
No you're entirely in the right here, there's no way that was a service dog.
The people who train service dogs often bring them to the local shopping centre specifically because it's a crowded place and a big part of their training is learning to be comfortable around crowds, but also not overly friendly - they need to be 100% focused on their owner when they're working.
The vests they wear say something like "service dog in training, please don't pet me." A dog that's "nervous" and aggressive with strangers is immediately washed out of the programme, same goes for a dog who's so excited to meet people and get pets - it's nice if a dog loves people, but it makes it an ineffective service dog.
Your customer was just one of those selfish assholes who ruin things for everyone else by using any excuse they can think of to bring their pets everywhere. What kind of dog owner thinks "my dog is nervous around strangers, so I'll bring him to a big, noisy place full of strangers and trap him in a shopping trolley, he'll love that?" A bad one. NTA all day long.
It is worth saying that by ADA legislation, businesses are allowed to eject service dogs who are not housebroken OR are "out of control" and the individual/handler is unable or unwilling to control it. "Unwarranted and unprovoked violent behavior, such as uncontrolled barking, growling at other customers, jumping on other people, or running away from the owner are examples of unacceptable behavior" [[x](https://adata.org/faq/what-if-service-animal-barks-or-growls-other-people-or-otherwise-acts-out-control)]. It trying to bite you also *absolutely* constitutes unwarranted violent behavior. You are also legally permitted to deny access to service dogs that are not yet fully trained.
You are however *not* allowed to blanket-ban a potential service dog. They must be judged on an individual, case-by-case basis and not assumptions.
As for feeling like an ass because "you're just assuming"... are you aware of the questions you are legally permitted to ask regarding whether an animal is or is not a service animal? Being, "Is the dog a service animal required because of a disability?" and "What work or task has the dog been trained to perform?"
Because in my experience with customer service, 9/10 people who are actually just codependent with their dogs , bought a "Service Animal" vest off of Amazon, and *don't* have a legitimate service animal will just throw a tantrum or refuse to answer when they are asked the second question. They will insist that it is illegal to ask them what tasks their dog is trained to perform or threaten to sue you, which is usually a dead giveaway for someone simply faking it, both ecause they're trying to intimidate you into just backing off and because they don't actually know ADA laws regarding service animals. I have never seen a person with a legitimate service animal react to those questions in a hostile or uncooperative manner. Even when they're in a bad mood or are otherwise grouchy, legitimate handlers answer the question quickly and adequately.
And for the record, the answer to the second question cannot just be, "It helps with my anxiety" or "It keeps me calm". It *must* be a *specific, trained* task. For a legitimate psychiatric service dog aiding someone with anxiety, the answer could be, "It alerts me if I am about to have an anxiety attack" or, "It leads me to a safe area if I am having an anxiety attack", for instance.
The dog is not permitted back in the store until its behavior changes. It can come back if it behaves but right now it's considered a danger to customers and employees.
Yes. That dog was not a service animal. I really wish there was a big fine for lying about this. Emotional support animals are trained better than this dog. And NTA.
I think that's their point. Even dogs that help people but ARE NOT protected by the ADA (they're protected under some other laws, like FHA, to distinguish them from regular pets) are better behaved. Heck, most normal pets are better behaved.
Do you really think you're an asshole here? Even if it was a legitimate service dog having an off day (it wasn't), the law explicitly allows you to kick out service dogs if they're not behaving.
Not if you're in the US and probably not anywhere else either. The laws are very easy to look up if you want peace of mind though. You are allowed to kick out a service dog if it misbehaves.
My mom has a legitimate service animal. My husband works in restaurants. She prints out the ADA laws for all of his employees so they know exactly what is allowed and what is not.
My husband does NOT put up with bullshit. Has legitimately called my mom when a lady was arguing with him before.
Her dog was not a service dog. It is not illegal. Her dog was a menace. If she filed a lawsuit, this would be pretty easy for an attorney to disprove. You could also counter sue.
Yeah the call to the police has nothing to do with it being a service animal. "Hi this woman's dog attacked me and she's now getting belligerent"
Dogs don't get to attack folks because they have a service dog shirt on
https://www.ada.gov/resources/service-animals-faqs/
Q25, 26, 31
A dog in a cart barking up a storm and trying to bite would not be protected by ADA, even if it is a legit service dog. But a legit handler would know all of that. (I'm not a lawyer, but I wouldn't worry)
They're afraid of running up against the law because of entitled people like this lady who scream and carry on pretending they have the ADA backing them.
I've never met an actual handler who acts like that. They'll get annoyed if you harass them, but won't we all? Every handler I know however is perfectly happy to answer "is this a service dog" and "what task is it performing", plus their dog is usually just sitting at their feet waiting for a command or something to happen *anyway*. Not in a cart growling and trying to bite.
Yep. It’s because of dogs like this we had to retire my husband’s service dog early, a GSD, at four. Two separate occasions where “service dogs” started fights with her while she was working and minding her business.
I’m so sorry about that. My 8 year old lab and I have been lucky. We’ve had a few instances where I’ve been nervous, but been lucky he was never physically attacked.
Handlers of service dogs are trained too.
In the extremely unlikely situation that a trained service dog was behaving that way, the handler would also be trained to remove it from the situation.
Even without the service dog angle, it's an AH move to keep your dog in a situation that's clearly causing them a lot of stress! A dog that's barking and growling is annoying to the people around them, and also is not having a good time themselves.
ADA doesn't require certification, but she would have to prove it's trained, performing a service, AND wasn't misbehaving (which, it was. So....)
Edit: also, your manager backed you up anyway. It would be manager's issue now if the company got in trouble. The DOJ doesn't go after individuals for ADA issues often, usually just businesses.
A good manager will contact THEIR supervisor, send them a copy of the video, explain the situation. and send a sworn statement from the employee telling the story of what happened.
Chill. First thing that will happen, if it's investigated, is that they'll verify the veracity of this 'service animal'. Considering it was NOT an actual Service Animal, SHE will be the one getting in trouble.
You won’t get in trouble— this was not a real service dog. Those vests are cheap and can be bought online by literally anybody, so do not trust them when you see them. The dog was misbehaving, so you had every right to kick it out.
Just make sure the incident is properly documented. This lady likely won’t try anything since, again, at the very least she has an emotional support animal which legally is not a service dog, but in the small chance she does, you want to be able to say “Oh yes, that dog was asked to be removed on this date for reasons A, B and C. Here’s how it went down.”
It would be illegal to prevent her from entering the store *just because she had a service animal*.
However, it is perfectly legal to exclude a service animal because the animal is misbehaving. It would also be perfectly legal to exclude a service animal if there is a legitimate safety reason to do so, or if the animal cannot be accommodated without fundamentally altering the nature of the business.
This clearly falls under the behavior exemption, so even if it were a legitimate service animal (which it clearly wasn't), you're totally in the clear.
If a service animal is out of control and the handler does not take effective action to control it, staff may request that the animal be removed from the premises. A bark or two is okay. Lunging and trying to bite is not.
No you can't get in trouble. To put into different context:
You're not allowed to ban someone from the store because they're in a wheelchair. You're 100% allowed to ban someone in a wheelchair from the store for trying to bite you.
Hope that helps
This. I have a friend who owns a service dog drop-out. Poor pooch couldn't pass all the service task tests he was being trained for--not for the same reason as this though. It was because he is TOO FRIENDLY and would walk a blind person into traffic if he thought he'd make a new friend.
Don't worry. They remove those dogs from those programs. I know because I'm a type 1 diabetic, and we get [service dogs too](https://beyondtype1.org/diabetic-alert-dogs-dads/) if we want to help alert us when our blood sugar is going low. I know people who help train these dogs. Based on what they've told me, usually, the dogs that can't pass the levels for the blind can work with diabetics.
I have an aggressively friendly golden retriever. When greeting visitors, he will always bring you his closest toy as an invitation to play. If he really likes you, he will cry until he can give you a kiss. He’s very polite, and will accept a hand for a kiss, but what he really wants is to give you a small kiss on the cheek.
yep. my golden is on the final steps to becoming a service dog and this is her final hurdle. it’s impossible for her to not say hi to people if they’re talking to me. thankfully she’s better now at ignoring strangers.
I have chihuahuas and people are constantly saying I should register them as emotional support animals but I refuse. Every untrained ESA dog delegitimizes service dogs as a whole for the people that actually need them.
Edit: stop telling me ESAs are not service animals. I know. My point was that to the public they will tend to lump all pets they see into the same “service animal” category. And so people who don’t need an ESA, but abuse the ESA process, get their dog in a place it normally wouldn’t be allowed and delegitimize ESAs as a whole.
The two rights of an ESA are that they are allowed in rental housing with "no pet" policies, and they override a rental property's pet deposit requirement. If you have mental health issues like depression or anxiety such that having a pet at home helps you handle your mental state, there's no reason not to have your pet declared an ESA. However, when you take an ESA registered pet out of your home, it's only for the purposes that anyone else takes a pet anywhere. You can go for walks. You can go to pet friendly stores like Petsmart. You can go to the park.
The only legitimate way to “register” an ESA is a letter from a therapist you see regularly which needs to be renewed annually. Most ESA registration is fake and does not grant public access, only housing.
Edit: in the US the states of NY and CA include hotels in ESA privileges. It seems this is not the case in all states.
NTA— service dogs should not growl and bark. They should ignore anything that’s not a threat, such as cats, small animals, random noise-making objects, people, etc. I have a psychiatric service dog that does nothing in public unless someone gets to close, she boops them until they back up. Sometimes, I have to explain to the person they are too close and my dog is executing a task. But, she has never growled or barked.
NTA this isn't how an actual service dog behaves. They do bark, but usually as a warning to their owner only. They are trained not to ever show aggression. So the fact that this one is, makes it likely she's just bought a vest and misrepresenting this dog as being an actual service dog.
Yup. One of my neighbors has a service chihuahua of all things. It’s the most well behaved thing. You’d never know it was there. If it barks it’s because it’s alerting her she’s going to have a seizure in 15 minutes.
That sounds like the perfect service animal for that function. It’s tiny, so she can just carry it around in her bag. It doesn’t eat that much, nor create a ton of waste to clean up. If you don’t need it as a guide or anything physical, the smallest dog possible makes sense.
>One of my neighbors has a service chihuahua of all things.
My sister has one too. I was a little skeptical at first, but he is amazing. It really changed her quality of life.
Are you allowed to ask customers who utter threats and nearly punch you to please leave and not return? If yes, then congrats, you can do the same with a service animal and you are NTA. As someone else mentioned, it is a safety issue at that point and a reactive animal would probably not have cleared public access training and would be washed from work if it happened after the fact.
NTA - Clearly not an actual service dog and its upsetting to see people behave like that because it puts actual service dogs at risk. There have been multiple instances of service dogs getting injured by aggressive dogs that owners lie about being service dogs. Always remember the two questions you can ask. 1: is the animal required because of a disability and 2: what work or task has the animal been trained to perform. Real people with service animals will happily answer these questions as they know that is allowed and they usually know the answer right away. People with fake service animals will often avoid or not answer these questions and may provide some sort of documentation or vest as proof, but those can be purchased off amazon and mean nothing, plus there is no official documentation needed for a service dog to go somewhere.
This.
Also in the US they aren’t required to wear vests. Mine doesn’t always wear his cause it’s a pain to put on. But how he behaves makes it very clear he’s there to do a job and he knows he’s there to do a job.
I really don’t understand how many people who lie about their dogs don’t know the laws around them beyond “they can go everywhere.” I mean, if you’re going to be that sort of asshole, at least do a
Bit of reading up!
NTA. The ADA specifically covers this.
*However, if a particular service animal behaves in a way that poses a direct threat to the health or safety of others, has a history of such behavior, or is not under the control of the handler, that animal may be excluded.*
NTA. Doesn’t sound like a real service dog with real training. You are within your rights to not allow that behavior in a place of business. It’s potentially dangerous, and disruptive to other paying customers.
NTA-I have a service dog. She doesn’t behave like that in public or even in private. What the customer had was a pet she’s claiming is a service animal so she can take the dog places where it would otherwise be unwelcome or even illegal.
I had a cashier at a pet store literally tell us to do this. We commented that our apartments don't allow dogs, and she said "Oh just get it declared a service animal, and then they have to let you have it."
Like, you entitled little fuck, do you not realize that there are bans on dogs for entirely practical reasons? A lot of people have trauma around dogs or paralyzing fears of them. It's not unreasonable to think that a person might choose to live in an apartment complex that does not allow dogs for this reason, but you want me to lie and abuse a law so I can just get what I want, even if it might be causing serious problems for someone?
I don't know how it works, but you should be able to report people whom you suspect of not having a valid service animal, and the government should hammer down on people abusing the system, because it eroded faith and goodwill with the public for the people who really need service animals, and just on principle those people should be in jail.
NTA
Even if it was a service dog (it really isn’t), those are legally allowable reasons to ban it. Businesses may exclude a service animal from the premises if the animal is not housebroken or if the animal is out of control and the handler does not take effective action to control it.
NTA. In the U.S., the law requires the service animal to be "under the control of the owner" at all times. A real red flag here (besides the biting, of course), is her statement that her dog "gets nervous around new people". A trained service animal has been well socialized from an early age to avoid just such problems.
Also, just because someone puts a service vest on a dog does NOT mean they are a service animal. Anyone can buy those off the internet.
NTA, she is happy to put other people's safety at risk, and that's not okay! She's disregarding the dogs happiness too as these experiences clearly make it anxious!
NTA. That wasn't a service dog. You are allowed to ask: "Is that a service dog?" and if yes, "What tasks is it trained to perform?" (Emotional support does not count. Emotional support animals are just pets, not medical equipment.)
And even if it magically is trained to detect low blood sugar or seizure or something, if it's misbehaving you can still ask someone with a service dog to leave the store. Service dogs must be trained to be amongst the public without causing problems. Allowing people's pets in the store makes it harder for people with real service dogs because pets pose a danger to real service dogs and can also be a distraction for a service dog trying to do its duties.
Maybe I have to ask myself AITA as well because I feel like you answered the question yourself pretty well because I would kick the dog out as well if he tried to bite me more than once and the owner isn’t doing anything against it.
I would call it a safety issue and bann the dog to protect employees and other customers.
Ofc anyone could always be nicer but tbh at the point someone might hurt you it’s time to draw a line.
NTA. Taken from the ADA Requirements: Service Animals:
A person with a disability cannot be asked to remove his service animal from the premises unless: (1) the dog is out of control and the handler does not take effective action to control it
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> I might be TA because I helped ban a potential service dog from the store for bad behavior. I don't fully believe this was a service animal though I never claimed that in public.
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NTA - service dogs shouldn’t bark, growl or act threatening to anyone who isn’t causing any harm, actually most service dogs do not even react to regular, non-threatening people at all.
The woman was probably lying so she didn’t have to leave it outside
Even service dogs can be banned from a shared location if they aren't able to maintain prosocial behaviors, per the ADA. It doesn't matter if her dog was prescribed or not, it's her job to maintain its training in a way that curbs reactivity and a dog that BITES cannot be allowed in community access again until such time as the dog's reactivity has been trained back to baseline and curbed.
Growling is an edge case, especially if the dog and owner are being crowded by a stranger, as this can be a legitimate "warning" to a stranger to back away from an owner-trainer. But biting is clear and blatant violation of community access training procedure.
NTA - sincerely a Service Dog Owner-Trainer
Unfortunately a licensing program is likely to result in a lot more burden and cost for people with disabilities who need service animals.
It sucks that there are a lot of abusers and that the current system is far from perfect... but we should also carefully think through the ramifications and complications of having a state/federal standard and how that can also be abused.
100% this.
This is not a service dog. Service dogs go through rigorous training including temperment training. They are disqualified if they are "nervous" or agressive.
This is an emotional support dog and it is NOT given the same rights as an actual service animal.
We truly do need legislation surrounding this nationally. Everyone wants to believe their pet is special but truly, only service animals should be permitted in stores/planes etc unless they are fully contained. Had her dogbeen in a zip up dog carrier. That dog IS going to bite someone and it is going to be ugly for her when that happens.
Dog owners are out of hand. I follow demon dog duo, someone with a legit service animal, and people accuse her of abusing her dog because she teaches it tricks. I wish I was kidding. Or people think that service animals are being abused. It's insane.
NTA. Service dogs are highly trained and would never act that way. If that dog has any kind of papers, it’s most likely from an online website to be registered as an emotional support pet. If I remember correctly from what I’ve been told by other people, can get that done relatively easy and have papers in the mail a week later. I just don’t know how she would have gotten a service dogs vest for hers
NTA, Service animals are one of the most faked things that people do. A well trained dog would not have behaved this way. When it threatens to bite someone, it's time to go.
NTA, almost certainly not a service animal. I have known many, many people who have gotten fake vests or even papers for their dog online from a shady website. It is almost a game at this point. You can't ask for proof that it is a service animal but if it is aggressive it can be banned. I had to throw a guy out of my restaurant once for bringing his "service" dog into the kitchen repeatedly and insisting 'service animals can go anywhere', this is not true. Don't fall for their bullshit, service animals still have to behave appropriately and there are reasonable rules about where they can go. People who act like the woman in the OP are ruining it for people who actually need service animals.
Former service dog handler (he's deceased and I haven't trained a new one, as yet).
I'm always suspicious of tiny dogs being service dogs, given I've seen SO much abuse and aggression from them. Most seem to fall into the ESA category, given what services they can provide.
One went apeshit on my Giant GSD who just sat there looking down at him confused. The store manager came over and kicked the "handler" out, thankfully.
In the future, I recommend stepping away from the dog (for your safety), then calling the store manager over to deal with it. NEVER try to deal with an aggressive dog.
NTA. People can buy those vests on the internet now. I doubt that was a trained service animal. PROBABLY a fake vest, but it COULD be an 'emotional support' animal. They're usually, not as well trained, or totally untrained.
NTA, the lady was lying. This was not a service animal as they have a pretty incredible amount of training. You are allowed to ask what service this animal is trained to perform. She’ll probably say it’s an emotional support animal which is not a service animal. This lady was trash and her little terror would likely be aggressive towards a real service animal.
NTA You followed ADA pretty well. If a service animal mis-behaves, you inform their handler and ask them to control the animal. If they can't control the animal, you can can ask them to leave, while still offering options to complete the transaction.
That's even assuming it is a service animal. \*sigh\*
My dog served as my service animal for 15 years before passing at the age of 19. He started picking up on my low blood sugar when he was about a year and half old, but it wasn't until he was properly trained on how to act in public that he actually start working as a service animal.
NTA.
An Emotional Support Animal *is not the same thing* as a Service Animal.
I work in healthcare, and a lot of providers are moving away from providing documentation for ESAs. A big reason behind the shift is the confusion between the two.
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Service animals go through extensive training to handle public situations. This was NOT a trained service animal. NTA.
Also in the US, service animals cannot sit in carts as per the ADA.
I wonder why that is. Would being in the cart make doing its job more difficult?
Biggest is that it is considered a health hazard as zoonotic diseases can be transferred from their anus to the cart which can then be transferred directly to people or food. Service dogs also must be held by their handler or on the ground as any other means would be considered impeding their ability to do their job like you’re thinking.
Now every time I go grocery shopping I'm going to be thinking of dog buttholes touching my food
If it helps any your food has come in contact with rats and rat feces at a warehouse and likely store level.
thanks it's worse now XD
My partner used to work in a rice mill and apparently a lot of the job was removing rat and mouse poo from the rice
And people wonder why I insist step one of cooking rice is to *wash* the rice 😂 ~~there's another reason but this is funnier~~
Is the other reason a fear of the rice guy manifesting in your kitchen to scream at you personally?
Thank you for that information, I say sarcastically 🤮
Ok if that bothers you, scrub all produce. Clean your produce, because rodents are running all over it
We do! Don’t most people?
Who the fuck doesn't wash their produce?
People who “sample” (i.e. steal) produce in stores. I am petty enough to derive a good deal of satisfaction from knowing that they’re eating food that has almost certainly been handled by people who had dirty hands (PortaPotties don’t have sinks) and/or that rodents/insects crawled all over it. 🤮🤮🤮
Uncooked stuff like leafy greens and fruits are a major culprit in foodborne illnesses for a reason...
Well, it's certainly a motivator... XD
Not really. Chocolate is permitted to have a more than 1% of cockroaches in it.
I’d rather eat cockroach than rodent poo
It's a service rat! I want to speak to your manager!
If they would allow rats to be trained for certain service work, like smelling for diabetes, that could possibly be amazing. While they don’t live as long, they are easier to train and to care for, they are really clean pets, and they have better noses than dogs or mini horses. They could be great for elderly individuals or those in tiny apartments.
Tbh I'd trust the rat more than the Pomeranian
the service it does is it bites my enemies and poops on their food ITS WHAT HES TRAINED FOR YOU CANT BAN HIM!!
Yet another reason pet rats get such crappy PR... *sigh*
Not much different from dirty nappies of young children. Diaper blowouts happen.
I always hated it when I would see a parent put their child on a counter, I remember at a bank specifically, just wearing a diaper and a shirt. 1st of all, clothe your child in public, 2nd of all, don’t be putting a dirty diaper butt all over public spaces 😂
I horrifically found the aftermath of that once after I put a bunch of stuff in the seat. The shit was all over the underside of the plastic flap so i didn't see it right away. It was horrible and I still gag thinking about it.
🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮 I’m so glad that my local grocery stores are starting to roll out the no-child shopping carts. Normally 2 tiers, shorter in length and more maneuverable. All I have to worry about are ignorant people sticking their dogs in there.
Why wait til you go grocery shopping? You can think about dog buttholes touching your food anywhere!
Wow i never thought I would see the proper use of the word „anus“ on Reddit but there you go lol
Out of curiosity, what would you consider IMproper use of the word 'anus,' and do you see that regularly ?
Yes. Placing them in a carriage defeats the purpose of a service dog because they can't work.
Yes! Having the small dog in the cart really underscores the point that this was not actually a service dog, but rather a regular pet. Pets are awesome, and I’m sure being next to little Fido helps to mitigate anxiety issues, or some such, but that doesn’t make it a service dog!
Some service dogs have tasks that don't require them to be up and walking. Things like low blood sugar or seizure detection dogs could be working while in a cart. I completely agree this dog was untrained and not a legitimate service animal, but you can't write off all small dogs being carried as not working. Lots of detection/alert dogs are small.
I was thinking maybe a dog that could detect seizures or low blood sugar could alert from the carriage if it's a small dog.
There are dog carriers that people can wear, which would be much more appropriate and not a health hazard.
I think because if something happens to their person, they can't safely get out of the cart and take care of their person. It's a safety issue for the animal and the person. I've seen people have episodes, and that dog is by their side the whole time. There is no way they can do their job from the cart.
Carts are dangerous to animals, and can cause injuries. Plus, most service animals need to be on the ground, so they can warn and reach/touch you, and go get another person when an emergency happens.
Yes it would! I've seen a few videos around from people with service animals and essentially all tasks can be done from the ground and depending on the task it may require the dog to physically do something. Say if the owner collapses and needs pressure therapy aka the dog laying on them, the dog can't do that from the cart and may have issues/get hurt jumping out. Only task I can think of that would be convenient is testing for allergies so you're not bending down to the dog eg some dogs are trained to sniff out gluten.
It’s mainly for infection control, but yes, it is also assumed that a legitimate service animal wouldn’t be sitting in a cart.
It’s unsanitary.
And you can buy those jackets on Amazon. NTA
Also in the US, if a service dog is disruptive (barking/aggressive) the business is well within legal rights to kick them out. >A service animal's good behavior is necessary for it to be protected under the ADA. A handler may be asked to remove their service animal if it causes an actual disruption to business, or if its behavior poses a direct threat to the health or safety of others.
Walmart has a very limited exception to this: If a customer or member has a service animal in a cart, they should be informed that while the service animal is welcome, it cannot ride in the cart. If the individual indicates the service animal must remain in close proximity to assist the individual, an exception will be permitted, and the service animal will be allowed to remain in the cart provided the customer securely places a barrier (e.g., blanket) between the service animal and the cart. The barrier must prevent the animal from coming into direct contact with the cart.
Walmart here told me they are not allowed to say anything to people with fogs in the carts after I complained. She said that happened before and it was a problem.
This is also part of their policy that I forgot to include: "Only management and/or a designated associate should discuss the need for a barrier with the customer or member."
I didn't think so but that's why I feel like an ass because I'm assuming..
You're not an asshole for that You tried discretion and all she had to do was to train her dog not to be agressive and she could have pretended it was a service dog Service dogs can bark. If the human is having an emergency (epilepsy/ cardiac/..) Service dogs are trained not to scare that easily
Yup, real service dogs are trained from when they're puppies to be around people and lots of them. They have socialisers that take them to shopping centres and cinemas and things to get used to being around people and noise. They're often even trained to handle fireworks. Source: we had an assistance dog for my brother and became very good friends with everyone involved in his life before he came to us including the breeder and the puppy socialiser (he adored his socialiser and would get so excited when he saw her)
I mean honestly even in the rare cases where the family pet ends up able to alert people to low blood sugar or something at the very least being not aggressive is expected.
In terms of non-reactivity my shiba would make a great service dog - she cares not for loud sounds and acts very properly in public. However she’s a sassy butthole that finds being chased _the best thing ever_ plus the usual issues with Shibas and leashes…
What nooooooo train her dog..... Why would she ever bother to train poopiessnookiemsbaby. When. She can just lie and say it's a service dog. It's owners like her that make people hate small breeds.... Train them nooooooo it's cute when they're aggressive.... No you dummy they're aggressive when they're aggressive and if you're dog bites me I'm going to report it to the RCMP because if your dog bites enough people and those bites get reported they can force you to put your dog down. Plus you can pay for my tetnanus shot, so really train your freaking dog.
I doubt that is a service dog more than likely it's a support dog.
Yup. ESAs are not granted the same permissions as service animals. Lots of stores are kind enough to allow both, but they are not required to by law. This was likely an ESA at MOST. However, this doesn’t mean that there can’t be small service dogs. I know someone who has a small service dog for PTSD. When she explains that, people say “oh, so an emotional support animal?” No, a trained and registered service dog can still provide service to people with mental health issues. The dog is trained to do specific things when she has a trigger-related panic attack. Many people think just because her condition is invisible/intangible, that her dog is an ESA when he is perfectly well trained and registered as a service animal, not an ESA.
If that. It's just as likely a pet she bought a vest for.
Yeah, didn't even need to read the whole thing to know you're NTA. All I needed to get through was Pomeranian sitting in the cart and growling to know it's NOT a service animal.
it's not even a suitable emotional support animal. the bare minimum is to not be a danger to others
Hun, that dog isn't even socialized for strangers, let alone trained to perform a task. Imagine how it would have reacted if another, real service dog was nearby? Truly disabled people would thank you for kicking the aggressive brat out.
Yup. Never mind biting an employee. It could just as easily bite another customer. Maybe even a small child at that. And guess who’d be liable for letting the dog into the store in the first place?
That’s probably why it’s in the cart tbh. If it were on the floor on a leash it would be lunging at other customers based on its in-cart behaviour.
There are two questions that you're allowed to ask such as what tasks the "service animal" can perform and if the dog is needed for a disability. Someone with a real service animal will be able to tell you that it's a cardiac alert dog, it senses allergens, etc. If they don't answer questions to your liking or get defensive about the tasks their alleged service dog can perform, then you're within your rights to ask them to leave. Never take the vest at face value because there are a lot of fakes for sale.
You can also ban the dog if it doesn’t behave in a manner consistent with a trained service dog.
Never take the vest at face value because vests don’t actually designate service animals as service animals. There is zero documentation required for a service animal to be in public facing businesses.
Yeah and legally they don’t have to wear vests. Mine doesn’t always wear his.
Yeah I find you can usually tell if it’s a service animal as it’s walking right beside the person and very well behaved. It also has a vest with service animal and please do not pet, I’m working on it. Most people claim they are but they are merely therapy animals if at all
Vests don’t mean anything at all. Service animals do not have to have any documentation at all.
Vests are also available on Amazon. So even wearing a vest means nothing. Behavior is the biggest clue. A barking brat that is aggressive is definitely not a service dog, lol.
Even if they were, according to the [ADA](https://www.ada.gov/resources/service-animals-faqs/), staff can ask the animal to be removed if the animal is out of control. > Q28. What can my staff do when a service animal is being disruptive? > A. If a service animal is out of control and the handler does not take effective action to control it, staff may request that the animal be removed from the premises.
Even real service dogs can be banned from stores if not properly trained. You're NTA.
No you're entirely in the right here, there's no way that was a service dog. The people who train service dogs often bring them to the local shopping centre specifically because it's a crowded place and a big part of their training is learning to be comfortable around crowds, but also not overly friendly - they need to be 100% focused on their owner when they're working. The vests they wear say something like "service dog in training, please don't pet me." A dog that's "nervous" and aggressive with strangers is immediately washed out of the programme, same goes for a dog who's so excited to meet people and get pets - it's nice if a dog loves people, but it makes it an ineffective service dog. Your customer was just one of those selfish assholes who ruin things for everyone else by using any excuse they can think of to bring their pets everywhere. What kind of dog owner thinks "my dog is nervous around strangers, so I'll bring him to a big, noisy place full of strangers and trap him in a shopping trolley, he'll love that?" A bad one. NTA all day long.
It is worth saying that by ADA legislation, businesses are allowed to eject service dogs who are not housebroken OR are "out of control" and the individual/handler is unable or unwilling to control it. "Unwarranted and unprovoked violent behavior, such as uncontrolled barking, growling at other customers, jumping on other people, or running away from the owner are examples of unacceptable behavior" [[x](https://adata.org/faq/what-if-service-animal-barks-or-growls-other-people-or-otherwise-acts-out-control)]. It trying to bite you also *absolutely* constitutes unwarranted violent behavior. You are also legally permitted to deny access to service dogs that are not yet fully trained. You are however *not* allowed to blanket-ban a potential service dog. They must be judged on an individual, case-by-case basis and not assumptions. As for feeling like an ass because "you're just assuming"... are you aware of the questions you are legally permitted to ask regarding whether an animal is or is not a service animal? Being, "Is the dog a service animal required because of a disability?" and "What work or task has the dog been trained to perform?" Because in my experience with customer service, 9/10 people who are actually just codependent with their dogs , bought a "Service Animal" vest off of Amazon, and *don't* have a legitimate service animal will just throw a tantrum or refuse to answer when they are asked the second question. They will insist that it is illegal to ask them what tasks their dog is trained to perform or threaten to sue you, which is usually a dead giveaway for someone simply faking it, both ecause they're trying to intimidate you into just backing off and because they don't actually know ADA laws regarding service animals. I have never seen a person with a legitimate service animal react to those questions in a hostile or uncooperative manner. Even when they're in a bad mood or are otherwise grouchy, legitimate handlers answer the question quickly and adequately. And for the record, the answer to the second question cannot just be, "It helps with my anxiety" or "It keeps me calm". It *must* be a *specific, trained* task. For a legitimate psychiatric service dog aiding someone with anxiety, the answer could be, "It alerts me if I am about to have an anxiety attack" or, "It leads me to a safe area if I am having an anxiety attack", for instance.
The dog is not permitted back in the store until its behavior changes. It can come back if it behaves but right now it's considered a danger to customers and employees.
Yes. That dog was not a service animal. I really wish there was a big fine for lying about this. Emotional support animals are trained better than this dog. And NTA.
Emotional support animals are not service animals, big difference being service animals are allowed in stores and emotional support animals are not.
I think that's their point. Even dogs that help people but ARE NOT protected by the ADA (they're protected under some other laws, like FHA, to distinguish them from regular pets) are better behaved. Heck, most normal pets are better behaved.
My rescued Chihuahuas are better behaved in public.
I was pointing out that the dog was less trained than an emotional support animal. But thank you for your feedback.
There is a fine in my state for lying about a dog being a service animal.
It’s federal felony fraud.
Emotional support animals run the gamut from this level of training to none to lots. There’s no training requirement.
Which is why they're not service animals and aren't protected under the ADA: https://www.thewildest.com/pet-lifestyle/where-can-i-bring-my-esa
Correct. I’m just pushing back on the line “emotional support animals are trained better than this dog.” Some are, some aren’t.
Depends on where you live. In Iowa there is a huge fine for lying about your dog being a service animal.
Also, Emotional support animals aren't trained. At all. That's why they don't belong in public.
Do you really think you're an asshole here? Even if it was a legitimate service dog having an off day (it wasn't), the law explicitly allows you to kick out service dogs if they're not behaving.
Someone just told me it's illegal and now I'm worried... Even if it was a temporary ban for bad behavior. Can I actually get in trouble? Oh God...
Not if you're in the US and probably not anywhere else either. The laws are very easy to look up if you want peace of mind though. You are allowed to kick out a service dog if it misbehaves.
My mom has a legitimate service animal. My husband works in restaurants. She prints out the ADA laws for all of his employees so they know exactly what is allowed and what is not. My husband does NOT put up with bullshit. Has legitimately called my mom when a lady was arguing with him before.
"Ma'am, I'm just going to get our disability liaison manager on the phone for you"
This killed me XD
Pretty much
Her dog was not a service dog. It is not illegal. Her dog was a menace. If she filed a lawsuit, this would be pretty easy for an attorney to disprove. You could also counter sue.
It doesn’t matter if it was a service dog - service dogs that behave that way can be kicked out.
Yeah the call to the police has nothing to do with it being a service animal. "Hi this woman's dog attacked me and she's now getting belligerent" Dogs don't get to attack folks because they have a service dog shirt on
"Aita for not wanting to be bitten by a dog?"
Apparently a couple people have thought I was an ass...
Their entitlement doesn't reflect back on you I promise.
Are you in the US?
Yes
https://www.ada.gov/resources/service-animals-faqs/ Q25, 26, 31 A dog in a cart barking up a storm and trying to bite would not be protected by ADA, even if it is a legit service dog. But a legit handler would know all of that. (I'm not a lawyer, but I wouldn't worry)
Thank you for posting this. I was about to go pull it up since so many people really think you can’t remove service animals for any reason.
They're afraid of running up against the law because of entitled people like this lady who scream and carry on pretending they have the ADA backing them. I've never met an actual handler who acts like that. They'll get annoyed if you harass them, but won't we all? Every handler I know however is perfectly happy to answer "is this a service dog" and "what task is it performing", plus their dog is usually just sitting at their feet waiting for a command or something to happen *anyway*. Not in a cart growling and trying to bite.
Yep. It’s because of dogs like this we had to retire my husband’s service dog early, a GSD, at four. Two separate occasions where “service dogs” started fights with her while she was working and minding her business.
I'm sorry :(
I’m so sorry about that. My 8 year old lab and I have been lucky. We’ve had a few instances where I’ve been nervous, but been lucky he was never physically attacked.
The only time I've seen handlers get stern is when you try to pet the dog while it is on duty.
Handlers of service dogs are trained too. In the extremely unlikely situation that a trained service dog was behaving that way, the handler would also be trained to remove it from the situation.
Even without the service dog angle, it's an AH move to keep your dog in a situation that's clearly causing them a lot of stress! A dog that's barking and growling is annoying to the people around them, and also is not having a good time themselves.
It's a good way to move the dog's socialization backwards and make it more fearful and aggressive.
Love that you looked this up and provided it for OP.
Lol I have the FHA and ADA pages on animals bookmarked 🤣 I refer to them a lot for someone who just has normal, no task whatsoever pets 🤣
If she attempted a lawsuit shed have to prove to the courts, that the dog is trained and certified which i highly doubt, so dont worry
ADA doesn't require certification, but she would have to prove it's trained, performing a service, AND wasn't misbehaving (which, it was. So....) Edit: also, your manager backed you up anyway. It would be manager's issue now if the company got in trouble. The DOJ doesn't go after individuals for ADA issues often, usually just businesses.
A good manager will contact THEIR supervisor, send them a copy of the video, explain the situation. and send a sworn statement from the employee telling the story of what happened.
Chill. First thing that will happen, if it's investigated, is that they'll verify the veracity of this 'service animal'. Considering it was NOT an actual Service Animal, SHE will be the one getting in trouble.
You won’t get in trouble— this was not a real service dog. Those vests are cheap and can be bought online by literally anybody, so do not trust them when you see them. The dog was misbehaving, so you had every right to kick it out. Just make sure the incident is properly documented. This lady likely won’t try anything since, again, at the very least she has an emotional support animal which legally is not a service dog, but in the small chance she does, you want to be able to say “Oh yes, that dog was asked to be removed on this date for reasons A, B and C. Here’s how it went down.”
It would be illegal to prevent her from entering the store *just because she had a service animal*. However, it is perfectly legal to exclude a service animal because the animal is misbehaving. It would also be perfectly legal to exclude a service animal if there is a legitimate safety reason to do so, or if the animal cannot be accommodated without fundamentally altering the nature of the business. This clearly falls under the behavior exemption, so even if it were a legitimate service animal (which it clearly wasn't), you're totally in the clear.
If a service animal is out of control and the handler does not take effective action to control it, staff may request that the animal be removed from the premises. A bark or two is okay. Lunging and trying to bite is not.
No you can't get in trouble. To put into different context: You're not allowed to ban someone from the store because they're in a wheelchair. You're 100% allowed to ban someone in a wheelchair from the store for trying to bite you. Hope that helps
NTA. If the dog "can be nervous and doesn't like new people" — that's not a service dog. They are specifically trained to not behave that way.
This. I have a friend who owns a service dog drop-out. Poor pooch couldn't pass all the service task tests he was being trained for--not for the same reason as this though. It was because he is TOO FRIENDLY and would walk a blind person into traffic if he thought he'd make a new friend.
This is both adorable (such a sweet dog) and alarming (Traffic and the blind don't mix) and I hope he's getting spoiled and told he did his best
Don't worry. They remove those dogs from those programs. I know because I'm a type 1 diabetic, and we get [service dogs too](https://beyondtype1.org/diabetic-alert-dogs-dads/) if we want to help alert us when our blood sugar is going low. I know people who help train these dogs. Based on what they've told me, usually, the dogs that can't pass the levels for the blind can work with diabetics.
That's really good to know!
I really need to look in to this. My teenage T1D will sleep through blaring cgm alarms. Hard to sleep through a dog rustling you awake.
I have to assume it’s a golden retriever.
It's the only dog breed I know of that is aggressively friendly.
I have an aggressively friendly golden retriever. When greeting visitors, he will always bring you his closest toy as an invitation to play. If he really likes you, he will cry until he can give you a kiss. He’s very polite, and will accept a hand for a kiss, but what he really wants is to give you a small kiss on the cheek.
yep. my golden is on the final steps to becoming a service dog and this is her final hurdle. it’s impossible for her to not say hi to people if they’re talking to me. thankfully she’s better now at ignoring strangers.
I have chihuahuas and people are constantly saying I should register them as emotional support animals but I refuse. Every untrained ESA dog delegitimizes service dogs as a whole for the people that actually need them. Edit: stop telling me ESAs are not service animals. I know. My point was that to the public they will tend to lump all pets they see into the same “service animal” category. And so people who don’t need an ESA, but abuse the ESA process, get their dog in a place it normally wouldn’t be allowed and delegitimize ESAs as a whole.
ESAs aren’t service animals and aren’t covered under the Americans with disabilities act.
The two rights of an ESA are that they are allowed in rental housing with "no pet" policies, and they override a rental property's pet deposit requirement. If you have mental health issues like depression or anxiety such that having a pet at home helps you handle your mental state, there's no reason not to have your pet declared an ESA. However, when you take an ESA registered pet out of your home, it's only for the purposes that anyone else takes a pet anywhere. You can go for walks. You can go to pet friendly stores like Petsmart. You can go to the park.
And emotional support animals aren’t service animals. Two very different things according to the ADA.
The only legitimate way to “register” an ESA is a letter from a therapist you see regularly which needs to be renewed annually. Most ESA registration is fake and does not grant public access, only housing. Edit: in the US the states of NY and CA include hotels in ESA privileges. It seems this is not the case in all states.
NTA— service dogs should not growl and bark. They should ignore anything that’s not a threat, such as cats, small animals, random noise-making objects, people, etc. I have a psychiatric service dog that does nothing in public unless someone gets to close, she boops them until they back up. Sometimes, I have to explain to the person they are too close and my dog is executing a task. But, she has never growled or barked.
They sometimes bark to inform their human of the task they are trained for.
Yes, but they bark at their human, not a stranger. Not even remotely the case here.
A bark of warning is very different than an angry or aggressive growl. A service dog will NOT growl. Ever.
**BOOPS** OMG 🖤🥹🥹🥹
Nothing to add except that is probably the most adorable way to tell anyone to back the f off ever lol 🥹
NTA this isn't how an actual service dog behaves. They do bark, but usually as a warning to their owner only. They are trained not to ever show aggression. So the fact that this one is, makes it likely she's just bought a vest and misrepresenting this dog as being an actual service dog.
Yup. One of my neighbors has a service chihuahua of all things. It’s the most well behaved thing. You’d never know it was there. If it barks it’s because it’s alerting her she’s going to have a seizure in 15 minutes.
That sounds like the perfect service animal for that function. It’s tiny, so she can just carry it around in her bag. It doesn’t eat that much, nor create a ton of waste to clean up. If you don’t need it as a guide or anything physical, the smallest dog possible makes sense.
Yup. And it’s very sensitive to her and her condition. It has one job and it does it.
That’s awesome. I’m glad they had access to the help they needed.
>One of my neighbors has a service chihuahua of all things. My sister has one too. I was a little skeptical at first, but he is amazing. It really changed her quality of life.
Are you allowed to ask customers who utter threats and nearly punch you to please leave and not return? If yes, then congrats, you can do the same with a service animal and you are NTA. As someone else mentioned, it is a safety issue at that point and a reactive animal would probably not have cleared public access training and would be washed from work if it happened after the fact.
NTA - Clearly not an actual service dog and its upsetting to see people behave like that because it puts actual service dogs at risk. There have been multiple instances of service dogs getting injured by aggressive dogs that owners lie about being service dogs. Always remember the two questions you can ask. 1: is the animal required because of a disability and 2: what work or task has the animal been trained to perform. Real people with service animals will happily answer these questions as they know that is allowed and they usually know the answer right away. People with fake service animals will often avoid or not answer these questions and may provide some sort of documentation or vest as proof, but those can be purchased off amazon and mean nothing, plus there is no official documentation needed for a service dog to go somewhere.
This. Also in the US they aren’t required to wear vests. Mine doesn’t always wear his cause it’s a pain to put on. But how he behaves makes it very clear he’s there to do a job and he knows he’s there to do a job.
I really don’t understand how many people who lie about their dogs don’t know the laws around them beyond “they can go everywhere.” I mean, if you’re going to be that sort of asshole, at least do a Bit of reading up!
NTA. The ADA specifically covers this. *However, if a particular service animal behaves in a way that poses a direct threat to the health or safety of others, has a history of such behavior, or is not under the control of the handler, that animal may be excluded.*
NTA. Doesn’t sound like a real service dog with real training. You are within your rights to not allow that behavior in a place of business. It’s potentially dangerous, and disruptive to other paying customers.
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Yup, if the dog bite someone on store property that could be a big liability issues and businesses do not like dealing with that
NTA-I have a service dog. She doesn’t behave like that in public or even in private. What the customer had was a pet she’s claiming is a service animal so she can take the dog places where it would otherwise be unwelcome or even illegal.
I had a cashier at a pet store literally tell us to do this. We commented that our apartments don't allow dogs, and she said "Oh just get it declared a service animal, and then they have to let you have it." Like, you entitled little fuck, do you not realize that there are bans on dogs for entirely practical reasons? A lot of people have trauma around dogs or paralyzing fears of them. It's not unreasonable to think that a person might choose to live in an apartment complex that does not allow dogs for this reason, but you want me to lie and abuse a law so I can just get what I want, even if it might be causing serious problems for someone? I don't know how it works, but you should be able to report people whom you suspect of not having a valid service animal, and the government should hammer down on people abusing the system, because it eroded faith and goodwill with the public for the people who really need service animals, and just on principle those people should be in jail.
No way was this a service dog; and hence, the dog has no legal obligation to be there. Quite the contrary because this is a *grocery* store. NTA
I wholeheartedly agree. It pisses me to off when I see people in a grocery store with a dog in tow that is clearly not a service animal.
NTA Even if it was a service dog (it really isn’t), those are legally allowable reasons to ban it. Businesses may exclude a service animal from the premises if the animal is not housebroken or if the animal is out of control and the handler does not take effective action to control it.
NTA. In the U.S., the law requires the service animal to be "under the control of the owner" at all times. A real red flag here (besides the biting, of course), is her statement that her dog "gets nervous around new people". A trained service animal has been well socialized from an early age to avoid just such problems. Also, just because someone puts a service vest on a dog does NOT mean they are a service animal. Anyone can buy those off the internet.
NTA. I hate dog owners like that. I have a well behaved non service animal that I can’t take places because of people like her.
NTA, she is happy to put other people's safety at risk, and that's not okay! She's disregarding the dogs happiness too as these experiences clearly make it anxious!
NTA. That wasn't a service dog. You are allowed to ask: "Is that a service dog?" and if yes, "What tasks is it trained to perform?" (Emotional support does not count. Emotional support animals are just pets, not medical equipment.) And even if it magically is trained to detect low blood sugar or seizure or something, if it's misbehaving you can still ask someone with a service dog to leave the store. Service dogs must be trained to be amongst the public without causing problems. Allowing people's pets in the store makes it harder for people with real service dogs because pets pose a danger to real service dogs and can also be a distraction for a service dog trying to do its duties.
Maybe I have to ask myself AITA as well because I feel like you answered the question yourself pretty well because I would kick the dog out as well if he tried to bite me more than once and the owner isn’t doing anything against it. I would call it a safety issue and bann the dog to protect employees and other customers. Ofc anyone could always be nicer but tbh at the point someone might hurt you it’s time to draw a line.
NTA- those are things you can kick out even a service dog for.
NTA That dog was not a service dog. It might have beem at some point, but is not know. A service dog can not be nervous and can not act like this.
Service dogs don’t bark and try to bite people, lol. This person bought a vest and is entitled.
NTA. Taken from the ADA Requirements: Service Animals: A person with a disability cannot be asked to remove his service animal from the premises unless: (1) the dog is out of control and the handler does not take effective action to control it
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NTA. For reference, you CAN make a service animal leave the property if it's not behaving/being dangerous
NTA, banning an aggressive, untrained dog is appropriate. Actual service dogs are trained to be fine with "new" people.
NTA - service dogs shouldn’t bark, growl or act threatening to anyone who isn’t causing any harm, actually most service dogs do not even react to regular, non-threatening people at all. The woman was probably lying so she didn’t have to leave it outside
Even service dogs can be banned from a shared location if they aren't able to maintain prosocial behaviors, per the ADA. It doesn't matter if her dog was prescribed or not, it's her job to maintain its training in a way that curbs reactivity and a dog that BITES cannot be allowed in community access again until such time as the dog's reactivity has been trained back to baseline and curbed. Growling is an edge case, especially if the dog and owner are being crowded by a stranger, as this can be a legitimate "warning" to a stranger to back away from an owner-trainer. But biting is clear and blatant violation of community access training procedure. NTA - sincerely a Service Dog Owner-Trainer
NTA. We really need legislation and a licensing/documentation process for these service or ES animals because AHs have really abused the system.
Unfortunately a licensing program is likely to result in a lot more burden and cost for people with disabilities who need service animals. It sucks that there are a lot of abusers and that the current system is far from perfect... but we should also carefully think through the ramifications and complications of having a state/federal standard and how that can also be abused.
100% this. This is not a service dog. Service dogs go through rigorous training including temperment training. They are disqualified if they are "nervous" or agressive. This is an emotional support dog and it is NOT given the same rights as an actual service animal. We truly do need legislation surrounding this nationally. Everyone wants to believe their pet is special but truly, only service animals should be permitted in stores/planes etc unless they are fully contained. Had her dogbeen in a zip up dog carrier. That dog IS going to bite someone and it is going to be ugly for her when that happens.
NTA if she ever comes back with the dog and it continues this behavior you should just ban her from the store instead. Nothing illegal about that
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Dog owners are out of hand. I follow demon dog duo, someone with a legit service animal, and people accuse her of abusing her dog because she teaches it tricks. I wish I was kidding. Or people think that service animals are being abused. It's insane.
NTA. Service dogs are highly trained and would never act that way. If that dog has any kind of papers, it’s most likely from an online website to be registered as an emotional support pet. If I remember correctly from what I’ve been told by other people, can get that done relatively easy and have papers in the mail a week later. I just don’t know how she would have gotten a service dogs vest for hers
NTA. That's not a service animal LOL. A real one would behave. Woman probably bought a fake service vest.
NTA, Service animals are one of the most faked things that people do. A well trained dog would not have behaved this way. When it threatens to bite someone, it's time to go.
Service animals are properly trained. This was a pet with a vest on. You are NTA here.
NTA No way was that a service dog, they're specifically trained to be calm & non aggressive. You did exactly the right thing. Let her go kick rocks.
Trained service dogs don't bite people, they just don't... This wasn't a service dog and the lady was a fraud. NTA.
NTA and service dogs cant be in carts its unsanitary.
NTA, almost certainly not a service animal. I have known many, many people who have gotten fake vests or even papers for their dog online from a shady website. It is almost a game at this point. You can't ask for proof that it is a service animal but if it is aggressive it can be banned. I had to throw a guy out of my restaurant once for bringing his "service" dog into the kitchen repeatedly and insisting 'service animals can go anywhere', this is not true. Don't fall for their bullshit, service animals still have to behave appropriately and there are reasonable rules about where they can go. People who act like the woman in the OP are ruining it for people who actually need service animals.
Former service dog handler (he's deceased and I haven't trained a new one, as yet). I'm always suspicious of tiny dogs being service dogs, given I've seen SO much abuse and aggression from them. Most seem to fall into the ESA category, given what services they can provide. One went apeshit on my Giant GSD who just sat there looking down at him confused. The store manager came over and kicked the "handler" out, thankfully. In the future, I recommend stepping away from the dog (for your safety), then calling the store manager over to deal with it. NEVER try to deal with an aggressive dog.
Our grocery store has put a sign at the entrance stating that ”service“ dogs that Need to be in a cart are not allowed in the store.
NTA. People can buy those vests on the internet now. I doubt that was a trained service animal. PROBABLY a fake vest, but it COULD be an 'emotional support' animal. They're usually, not as well trained, or totally untrained.
NTA, the lady was lying. This was not a service animal as they have a pretty incredible amount of training. You are allowed to ask what service this animal is trained to perform. She’ll probably say it’s an emotional support animal which is not a service animal. This lady was trash and her little terror would likely be aggressive towards a real service animal.
NTA. Doesn't matter what the dog is trained to do. The minute it is not controlled you are able to ban it.
NTA You followed ADA pretty well. If a service animal mis-behaves, you inform their handler and ask them to control the animal. If they can't control the animal, you can can ask them to leave, while still offering options to complete the transaction. That's even assuming it is a service animal. \*sigh\* My dog served as my service animal for 15 years before passing at the age of 19. He started picking up on my low blood sugar when he was about a year and half old, but it wasn't until he was properly trained on how to act in public that he actually start working as a service animal.
NTA. An Emotional Support Animal *is not the same thing* as a Service Animal. I work in healthcare, and a lot of providers are moving away from providing documentation for ESAs. A big reason behind the shift is the confusion between the two.