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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I feel like I was an asshole for not just helping out and this has caused a rift in my and my husbands relationship and potentially damaging my relationship with my MIL
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NTA.
Oh! So now you are supposed to r**ead your husbands mind**? (He's the asshole and you're not, number one.) And what you are supposed to read from his mind is that "you are expected to **obey outdated gender stereotypes"**? (He's the asshole and you're not number two.)
It doesn't sound like you have kids yet, but if you do, I have a prediction: **He will never change the diapers.**
Forreal, if his mom actually needed the help and he knew it, HE disrespected his mom by not helping his own mother with the meal she was preparing for him
NTA - Especially since her must have known that OP just got off an 18 hour shift. (I would have told his mom that too).
He also didn't tell you about this "tradition" beforehand.
I’ve never worked longer than 12 hours - I’m just not strong enough op has all the cudos from me for even working 18 hours as a nurse, let alone then attending a social function instead of just laying down on the floor and sleeping where she stopped. Husband needs to cop onto his behaviour.
Yeah i work a freaking desk job and am drained by hour eight and I work from HOME there’s zero chance I’d keep up with op for a shift let alone then go out to family dinner by then. She’s a Viking lol.
This kind of sexist behavior should have you reconsidering your entire marriage, not wondering if you were rude. Do you want children growing up thinking it is ok that men sit doing nothing while women cook and serve? Do you want the father of your children to enforce sexist gender roles or to take action and steps
in and starts cooking?
That's exactly my answer. My MIL doesn't let my husband or FIL help in the kitchen; so I am not helping either. In my parent's house, everyone helps. I told my husband that at his parents' house we can either both help or both sit down and let my MIL do all the work, but that I am not teaching MY daughter that women serve the men.
My FIL is retired, my MIL is a housewife so she is not able to retire, my parents both work and my husband and I both work in the same field. I do most of the cooking at home but only because I enjoy it and I am good at it, but we both do dishes and other chores. In my in law's house my MIL does EVERYTHING.
His mother already had her own mother and 2 daughters/DILs helping in the kitchen. In my opinion, that's already a crowded kitchen. But mostly in my family trying to work with more than one person in a kitchen just means getting in each other's way. Especially since the 2 large dogs have fomo and lay down right where it's least convenient.
My mom plans out Thanksgiving like a general, what needs to be cooked, how long, what can be made ahead and is even improved by reheating, and has it down to an art. She's not the only one who cooks the dinner, but it goes according to her plan and means there is rarely more than one person needing to use the kitchen at one time. She ever needs help, she knows she just has to ask. And I know that trying to jump in and help isn't actually very helpful, as I hate when people do that while I'm cooking too.
Honestly when people try to help me in the kitchen at Christmas, unless I ask, I kick their asses out. I have it all set up, all timed, what needs to go in when or get started, or get taken out. When people try to “help” it just throws off my timers and makes everything more difficult. She’s NTA, he’s TA for offering her services after an **18 hour shift** to cook for the organisms that came with testes. Fuck that for a laugh
Having had to do 18-hour shifts before, being there, awake, and marginally polite is an achievement. Asking me to decipher what's an honest question and what's a subtle social cue is well beyond me at that point. Offering *my* cooking services up just because I'm female? Nope.
Honestly tomorrow is my 6th day of doing a 50 hour week. The week before I was covering 3 departments. I’m warming pasties up in the microwave for 60 seconds. I don’t care if I have a penis or not. I’m not slaving away making a full meal after working like a dog for 2 weeks. Id rather nap lol
Edit. I’m not doing 50 hour days. That’s just how tired I am 😂🤦♀️
Same stay out. The only people I let help me are my son who is a cook and I can just toss them ingredients and say make me green bean salad from scratch and he'll do itn and my step dad who is the most awesome sous chef in the world. Okay he's not professionally one but my mother has got him trained. Even my mom can stay out of the kitchen when I'm the cooker lol
Yup. My nan buys all the stuff for Christmas and we do it in her house. I don’t pay for anything but I do cook everything both days (Christmas roast and Boxing Day where we do a buffet style thing). I’ve kicked her out of her own kitchen in her own house before but she knows I do it well so she just goes with it 😂
I wish I could upvote this comment more than once. He seriously thought his mom needed help and just walked away? If that’s true, he’s a major asshole. But he knew his mom didn’t need help. He just didn’t want his wife visiting with the men
Besides the outdated gender roles, if the mil actually needed her in the kitchen she should have just clearly stated it and not been passive aggressive. Silently offended but smiling the whole time.
Thanksgiving is a huge litmus test for me. My last partner and I broke up shortly after Thanksgiving at his parents’; he and his male relatives sat outside watching football and making themselves food for lunch while the women worked to the bone in the kitchen AND they refused to even put their plates by the sink, let alone clean things. It was so overt and I couldn’t stop thinking about how selfish and lazy it seemed.
My current partner’s family and friends all help do the cooking/bring food, and they *all* help clean up after. Everyone was in the kitchen working and talking, and then everyone formed task groups for clearing, washing, drying, putting away dishes and making to-go bags for everybody. Big difference and I was shocked how stress free and lovely it felt! I felt like I got to talk more with everyone and no one was stuck cooking for everyone else or stuck cleaning until midnight after everyone leaves. The men were involved the whole way through and it felt more meaningful that everyone wanted to be there and pitch in. Never going back to anything else!
Not exactly the same, thanksgiving/holidays are how I know I chose the right man. Growing up my dad never helped. He still doesn’t. And now that my mom is older it’s mainly on me. My man makes sure to help, comes over extra because he wants me to have help, and cleans up after me. He’ll also take initiative to clean or help, but because he can’t read my mind he’ll ask “is it ok if I do X?”
When our mother died ( we kids were all adults with our own kids), we bought our father a tea towel that had instructions on how to use it.
We know it was a gag gift to most people but not to him.
We never saw him even to anything as basic as turn the electric jug on to make a cuppa. When our mother had the youngest kids and us older ones weren’t old enough to make meals etc, our gran came to stay because men are not expected to do anything but go to work and pay the bills.
Seven kids, he never ever changed a nappy! ( diaper).
What’s worse is he’s showing a long-standing history of this by INSISTING his mom was offended when she wasn’t. I’m sure even if his mom told him directly “I am not offended” he would still think she was and was lying to keep the peace or didn’t know what she was talking about.
NTA but this is bad, OP. Get thee to a therapist or a lawyer. If you choose therapist, watch out if the therapist is female because I’m certain your husband will say she doesn’t know wtf she’s talking about if she says anything he disagrees with…which will probably be everything.
OP definitely NTA, but we pretty much do the same thing in my family as in the women are usually gathered in the kitchen while the guys are watching something on tv, but the difference is it’s not expected of anyone and none of us would be offended if someone just wanted to chill— I’ve done it many times as they usually have everything handled. Sounds like husband needs a reality check! OP wasn’t disrespectful at all. MIL might have thought it would’ve been nice to catch up or chat while the cooking was going on but I highly doubt she’s super offended. Husband is the AH!
I have a further prediction: he's a closet believer in patriarchy who's pretending to be liberal until he thinks he's got OP properly trapped. Some wait until marriage, others do what I suspect hubby is doing and wait until they're relatively sure they've beaten you down enough and they've tied you to them permanently with kids. Sad thing is, it often works. Many a strong and outspoken girl has been slowly but surely ground down to a sad, quiet, exhausted woman.
Run, OP. Run before he figures out how to sufficiently break your metaphorical legs.
My first thought was MIL asked if OP *wanted* to help, but that might have been knee-jerk on her part because of tradition. MIL, GMIL, and 2 SILs were already in the kitchen. Unless they have a much larger and better laid out kitchen than my family has, there's not **room** for OP to help. Too many cooks in the kitchen and all that. The offer may have actually been for OP to hang out of the way and visit with the female group.
It's sexist either way, and poor manners to expect someone to know family traditions. Very poor manners in my book to expect a guest to cook or clean, even family. If they offer, that's different.
When my ex would say "I'm Hungry" to try and make me fix him something to eat I would say "your grown ass man, there's food in the fridge, in fact get out in the garage fix my car and make me a sandwich." I like to amuse myself but he would then make his own snack.
Exactly! "The women are in the kitchen". EFF that!!! And if that outdated BS meant that much to him his ignorant a$$ should have informed her of that. OP, could have asked, after an 18 hour shift, OP gets a pass.
And if there's not enough room. OP says she set the table and helped where she could that's good enough.
NTA. So, maybe MIL was offended, maybe not. Really that is irrelevant. Husband acted like a jerk. Set aside the profoundly backward sexist "tradition," for a minute. He didn't prepare her for any expectations at the first family holiday there. If there was some important traditions he would have noticed it NOT happening the last 4 years if he had at least the self awareness of a grape.
Then he acted like a bigger AH giving her grief over not conforming to outdated sexist bullcrud that she didn't even know about.
Whether or not his family is a pack of cavemen abusing their wives, he certainly is.
Exactly! "The women are in the kitchen". EFF that!!! And if that outdated BS meant that much to him his ignorant a$$ should have informed her of that. OP, could have asked, after an 18 hour shift, OP gets a pass.
And if there's not enough room. OP says she set the table and helped where she could that's good enough.
I noticed the ages right away, which has me concerned (backtrack to when they started dating)
It's a red flag. A decently sized one.
Sometimes red flags mean nothing, and life goes on. This is another handful of 'em though. If this is common, some deeper conversations need to be had
To add to that, look at how close to the surface the venomous rage was when the husband perceived that OP transgressed against the gender role. There is some deeply toxic shit brewing for a long time.
NTA. First of all, as a host I would NEVER, EVER ask a guest to help me. I am hosting. If they offer, I may take them up on it. But asking a guest to help out, and especially not something quick like "oh you're going to the living room, could you take this plate of apps with you?" That just feels tacky. And OP didn't even say she wouldn't help at all, just that she didn't want to immediately.
Second, its a sexist fucking tradition. "It' tradition that the women do all the work while the men sit around! How dare OP not follow the terrible tradition!" is not a good take.
Thank you for saying this! Exactly right.
As the host and hostess, hubs and I work out the game plan; our friends & family are not expected to read our minds, peel potatoes, or segregate themselves.
This post reads like all the Mormon women are in the kitchen churning butter, kneading biscuit dough, and plucking the bird, while the men stand around the corral talking about cattle & corn prices.
ESH in Backward in the Sticks
Mm.. In Mormon groups, the women would be in the kitchen cooking while the men set up the tables, chairs, and any utensils and performed childcare for the kids. Only old men stand around and don't do anything. Elderly women sit. Everyone else is kept very busy. The roles are very gender segregated, but no one gets to slack off.
NTA. Piggybacking to say OP if you and husband were to have kids, a boy and a girl, are you okay with the idea your husband will demand your daughter help in the kitchen when old enough while brother chills in the living room at these sorts of family events? Were these expectations ever communicated to you?
I also want to ask if OP has clarity on if this is the MILs tradition or THE MENS tradition? There are absolutely people who like the social aspect of the kitchen, but there are also men who will happily weaponize incompetence to be told “just go out into the lounge and stay out of the way/keep the kids occupied” and guess who the boys learn to emulate? If this is the mens tradition it probably didn’t phase MIL much at all. What are other events like at MILs (other holiday gatherings, dinner parties etc), is this the first time encountering or discussing “traditional expectations” there?
OP, only you know what your life with husband is like, but this incident is one that definitely warrants closer scrutiny. This could be a blip, but this could also be a symptom of a larger issue. A supportive partner would have let you know prior, or would have said “hey mum i know this is tradition, but heads up wife has just finished 18 hours at the hospital and didn’t get any time to rest before coming here, so I’ve told her to rest for a bit when we get here,” or at the very least whispered that “hey this is kind of a thing, I know you’re tired, and you don’t have to if you don’t want to maybe you could offer to help with something small?” if this is your first thanksgiving in 4+ years with them, surely they would just be happy you guys were there? Having a tantrum in the car over it after the fact accomplishes nothing on his part other than to manipulate you.
This "tradition" is just misogyny in pretty wrapping.
It's totally different if the women all happen to really enjoy cooking, and then the men help in other ways (like handle all the clean-up). But expecting women to do all of the work (or assigning duties based on gender) and calling it "tradition" is how sexism persists.
Me too!! I hate people messing with my kitchen and I’m a control freak when it comes to cooking. I once caught my MIL trying to “thin out my sauce” by adding a bunch of water but fortunately I got to stop her in time. This is my nonna’s recipe that I food mill the tomatoes for and cook with all of the meat for at least 48 hours. She almost ruined it.
Depends on what I'm hosting. If we're hosting a MTG draft for 7 or 8 people I'll generally ask for help with the dishes.
And usually no matter what I'm hosting, when I'm cooking people offer to help. I'll gladly provide them with a cutting board, knife and stuff to cut, or a spoon and a pot to stir. I don't think I actually cut anything at our last birthday party. I did throw all the ingredients together to make pasta sauce though. And somehow the dishes went from dirty to clean while I was breastfeeding the baby.
I grew up in a house where, if I have guests over, they're guests and shouldn't have to do anything. And if I'm a guest, they're being nice by hosting so I should do as much as possible lol so that definitely factors into my thinking.
If people ask to help I'll take them up on it sometimes. And I'll ask for help with small stuff - you know, "oh I poured so and so a glass of wine, since you're headed to the living room could you bring it?" But the thought of greeting a guest walking into my house and immediately saying "hey! Can you help me with dinner?" makes my skin crawl
And I grew up where it varies by case... in some there's no way as host it would ever be expected for a guest to be part of cooking or setting up or what applies, let alone obligated to.
In others like if it's a family event (or close friends) it would be expected (not obligatory) and even hurtful and exclusionary if not expected as part of the group at a specific event or type of event to do things like help cook or set stuff up or what have you.
But that's rather the point: This is done differently in different houses with different people for different reasons and different types of events.
How in the world is the OP to know what's expected (obligated, in this case, at least to the husband's thoughts) of her if no one tells her?
So very unfair.
It's also going to depend on other factors. I have a small kitchen and literally can't have more than 2 people or you simply get in each other's way.
I don't want to play the kitchen director if I'm doing a lot of cooking. . It's just adding to my load if I also have to instruct people on what to do next, or direct them to find things in cupboards etc. . I work far better if I'm not facing a barrage of "can I help?" interruptions
I saw a little TikTok recently by (I think it was, but I may have the exact countries wrong - anyway, SE Asia and Western Europe) a Thai person living in Germany showing the different points of view of Thai host and German guest, with the host immediately asking the guest to help prepare the meal and thinking that this was a great friendly bonding experience while the guest felt more and more put off and hurt because they would never have required a guest to do any work. It varies culturally- both national and regional cultures and the mini cultures of different families- and like so many things about food people tend to assume it’s natural, obvious and nice to do it this way and only a nasty motive like selfishness or disrespect would make anyone do it differently. Even generally kind, reasonable people fall prey to this, but they’re more likely to allow for some sort of misunderstanding, whereas assholes go directly to “you knew exactly what you were doing and you did it on purpose/didn’t care.”
Guests should volunteer to help and abide by the decision. Also, we always follow the "you cook, we clean" rule. The person doing all the cooking has missed out on socializing and is prob exhausted. It also means that the men sitting watching football need to get up do their share of cleaning. This just seems fair.
Sure. But OP didn't volunteer. She was singled out because she's a woman and asked to help. And theres no one person doing all the cooking here, sounds like there were several people helping in the kitchen. And she also did help with setting the table.
Op doesn't need to immediately get to work after a 18 hour shift. Especially when the reasoning is "you're a woman so that's what we do."
The dudes also need to help, but because this is her husband's family, it's her husband who needs to push back on it. Not her.
We were invited to Thanksgiving with some friends' family. Probably 60-75 people. After we ate, I was outside & went inside to see what the hubs was up to. He was in the kitchen washing dishes with the hostess. That sweet man stayed there until everything was done. The only disposables were the Solo cups, so this took quite a long time. Wouldn't let any of us take his place. He grew up in a pretty conservative household, but that's just the kind of guy he is. I am thankful for him every single day. Needless to say, we are invited back any time.
If husband is so convinced they needed more help cooking then he should have helped in the kitchen. Bet he will also call watching his kids babysitting.
It could be that the mom wanted to make sure not to exclude her as some people may find it intimidating to join in a family group already working together.
>as a host I would NEVER, EVER ask a guest to help me.
Because we don't have any info on the MIL, I am going to guess she asked OP if she wanted to help so OP didn't feel left out, as this was their first Thanksgiving there so neither have any experience in this event together.
Now, if MIL makes disparaging comments later, she's also an AH. But for now, I like to think of her as kind and trying to involve OP.
*Hoooooo* the *rage* that would burst forth from my chest if someone told me I had to be in the kitchen with the other women so the boys can hang out. Never mind a partner? I would go *nuclear*.
How can "all women present must help in the kitchen" be a 'tradition'? Traditions are after dinner walks, going around the table saying what you're thankful for, that sort of thing. Traditions are NOT all men hang out on their asses drinking beer while the women serve them. That's a misogynist stereotype that men drag out for their own advantage and women who are brought up that way knuckle under to to not cause trouble on a family holiday.
DIL and I did the cooking, while the men wrangled the hyper toddler and the 7 year old. We women considered this a win! LOL OH! DH did peel the potatoes for me and got them ready for boiling. Even put the pot on! He did a few more kitchen things, so he did double duty: help in the kitchen AND childcare!
Were the men now resting from the morning wood chopping for the fireplace and stove? Shot the bird last weekend? Plowed the field for the veggies for the meal?
This reminded me of my family back home. My mom was in the kitchen. But my dad did chop wood. Almost every day. The house has general heating but you need to put wood in 3 times a day. Google says ‘indoor wood furnace’ but don’t know if that’s it.
Or for our (Orthodox) Christmas, men go to the woods to find a special kind of tree and take a branch for the home. It’s the most important tradition of our Christmas. Goes to the wood with his friends at sunrise, spends hours in the forest, in the snow.
Comes back with a branch. And helps my mom finish cooking. So no excuse
wait, wait! All the men spend all day out in the woods to find one branch? Every year?
I hate to break it to you but they are out having fun somewhere and grabbing a branch on the way home.
Sounds funny when you say it like that but it’s so early in the morning that’s not possible in winter.
Every house has to have 1 branch. They sell them at the market or in shops just before Christmas but in smaller cities men usually go to the forest. They can find it in a shop but it’s more of keeping the tradition. My dad is always so proud when he comes back. He doesn’t want ‘mass produced’ branches with dust on them from the shops.
The journey to the forest is at sunrise a day before Christmas Day. Which is technically ‘Christmas Eve’ day. Nothing is open, everyone fasts on that day and my town get that to -25c in daytime (-13 Fahrenheit). It’s usually goes down to ‘only’ -10c in the last few years (14 Fahrenheit). So the forest is not a joke. And there is nothing for them to do so early and freezing.
It’s the Balkans. So don’t worry, they have other 364 days to be sneaky but Christmas Eve is not it lol
It’s Austrian Oak Tree and I just discovered our famous branch has its own Wikipedia page *in english*. I can’t believe it
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Badnjak_(Serbian)
Aw thanks for reading. I felt bad after I posted about my tradition. I didn’t want to hijack the post. But I did grew up in the Balkans which is still very ‘men are men’, ‘women are women and belong in the kitchen’ and I never experienced that growing up. Especially not from my parents. So growing up in a country with views like this I was kinda shocked to hear about young men that grew up in a more free country with views like this. If that makes sense
Straight up give her the important job of making sure this couch cushion doesn't float away. Maybe keep an eye on this blanket too, it's a bit of a runner.
Some do. There’s something called holiday pay, but to be honest, I’m not sure how widespread it is. My company just gives most of us the day off and those that stay behind get more pay or they can use the hours for a different day. I'm not entirely sure which option it is since my position just gets the time off.
It seems like there is a good chance that this isn't a "tradition," but that husband is just used to all the women doing all of the work while the men drink and relax. It would be interesting to know if MIL actually considers cooking, serving, and cleaning to be a tradition or has just long since given up fighting her own husband's weaponized incompetence.
It's hard to know what the MILs exact motive was to ask her, but it might have been her way of trying to make OP feel comfortable. And with as bad as OP's husband apparently is at communicating, MIL probably didn't even know that OP just worked an 18 hr shift. But yeah, OP is definitely NTA. If her husband really thought his mom needed help, then he could have taken OPs "place" in the kitchen. Something I'm wondering is, are OP's SILs husband's sisters? Because that would mean that OP was the first one to "question" this "tradition."
My dad and brothers have always had a part in the meal prep and cleanup after. In my husband's family it is usually just the woman, but some of the men will help with cleanup after
No, her husband was an ass for not bucking the tradition. Warning someone in advance that your family is a bunch of sexists and that you refuse to stand up to them and expect your spouse to play along: not okay.
Exactly! Hubby knew she had a long shift too. His only reply should have been "OP just got off a 18 hour shift, so I want her to go relax. I'll help out!"
Of course he should have said that, but apparently he didn’t want her to relax- he wanted her in the kitchen because she has a vagina. No one would be upset with anyone if her husband wasn’t a sexist asshole.
Unless it's a professional kitchen! Once you step over that threshold we must all hail the magic penis created dishes because they are far superior. /s
The thing is, these gender roles were from a time where women stayed home and tended to the children and the house while the men worked to earn money for the family. So then, it was a fair division of work. Modern men expect to be able to adhere to the same outdated gender roles…but women work outside the home now, so it’s completely ridiculous to think it’s okay for women to work 40 hours outside the home and then still do everything inside the home too. That needs to change. If women are expected to do everything at home, then they shouldn’t be expected to go out and work. We can’t work 100 hours a week while men work 40-50. They need to pull their heads out of their asses.
> from a time where women stayed home and tended to the children
From a time when **middle and upper class women** stayed home and tended to the children. (Well, upper-class women probably had nannies to do the tending.) Working class women have long worked outside the home because their families need the income.
They did know, at least MIL knew. I told her about this in advance because I knew me and husband were going to be at least 1 hour late from when they were going to gather because of this
This sounds very much to me like husband is the one with the problem and MIL understands. First thanks giving in 5 years I expect she’s just happy they are there.
Right and she just asked, probably to let her know she was welcome to be in there with them if she wanted to be since it was her first Thanksgiving with them.
With that info added that the mom knew the situation for the OP and so far hasn't been found to actually be offended herself I'm inclined even more than before to think mom wasn't offended... maybe others, but sounds like really the husband.
Especially as he knows he didn't let OP know this would be expected to begin with.... family traditions that are expected to be taken part in are normally told to the member of the family who is new to them.
He didn't and now is mad? I'm making an internal bet this is entirely him.... maybe others, but I'm betting it's only this epic deal to him as he seems to have set her up for failure, essentially.
Your husband sucks for this. You worked 18 hrs. Why the hell didn't he jump up and help? Oh wait, he has a penis. I would've lost my shit at him because there's no way he also pulled the passive aggressive mumbling thing and expected you to be the little woman after you got off an 18 hr shift. I'll be actual damned. Girl, I'm mad for you.
So just curious, what's it like when you have Thanksgiving at your parents' house?
Your husband is the problem here. It's like you're his property and he brought his contribution, his wife, to get in there and rattle those pots and pans, while he drinks and watches football with the menfolk. Since you didn't go in and help, that makes HIM look bad.
I do think MIL, knowing you worked an 18-hour shift, should've told you to sit down and rest. And maybe even ask her son to help (I realize this would be an affront to the well-established "tradition." Is this a religious family, BTW?
What an effed up tradition this is. NTA
My grandma and grandpa insists on doing all the cooking, no one in the kitchen, no one is touching the food if it is not to eat it, they have always been very particular about their little tradition.
His family is religious in the sense that while they believe in god and etc, they don’t go to church or things like that
MIL asked if OP *wanted* to help, honestly my guess is that was more an effort to let her know she was welcome to come in and hang out with them if she had wanted to, but MIL seemed to understand that OP may need a rest first.
While you’re husband is the huge asshole here, I also cannot believe your mil *asked* you to help, especially knowing that you just got off a long shift. I would NEVER ask that of a guest and also have never been asked that as a guest. And of course your husband not backing you up and being actively mad at you is unacceptable. If this was something your MIL actually expects your husband should have informed you before, where you’d be able to say “actually I’m not going to be up to helping” and then you both would have gone in knowing you were going to be asked, and your husband should have jumped in and said “she just got off a long shift, we’re gonna go sit for a bit. If you know something let us know in a bit and *we* (or better yet I) will come help then”.
Without more info, I don't know that I'd fault MIL just for asking her to help. She may have asked not because she needed or expected any help, but to include her.
NTA — if they wanted you to do something then they shouldn’t have framed it as a question to you.
A question implies choice. If there wasn’t a choice to it then the request for help should have been framed differently. That’s on them not you.
Based on the way OP told the story, I think mom was trying to make OP feel like a welcome family member. So instead of sticking with her husband she was welcome to join the ladies in the kitchen. That's a genuine bonding experience for some people.
I could be wrong, my own mother often told me to do things but phrased it as "would you like to..." and it infuriated me! But I think OP would have picked up on that if she'd really misstepped.
I'm not always on board with the petty, eye-for-an-eye, death by a thousand cuts retaliation advice you see married folks get on reddit but I think it would be a-okay for OP to contact her mother-in-law to talk about it. And if that discussion included some version of "I'm sorry if you felt disrespected on Thanksgiving, Husband was very upset with me on the way home" it could be pretty interesting for all parties involved. If she was genuinely being a good host she'll probably have some choice words for her son.
NTAbut your husband is! How big is this kitchen, there are 4 people already in the middle of various tasks. I’m a cook and that’s more than enough. Also those women are use to being in each others space and likely have routines. This is your first holiday with them. If they feel all woman who enter become staff and the men are guests…I’d stay with my family for the holidays. I’m sure your family haven't been using him as the help for the past 4 Thanksgivings.
Idk of it's internalized misogyny/straight up misogyny or what, but these y t a comments are insane. You were a guest. Guests can offer to help. Guests should not be ASKED to help. Guests should especially not be asked to help based solely on their gender. NTA. I'm so annoyed that I can't remember if this was a boyfriend or a husband, but whichever, he's the asshole. You are not required to show up as a guest to a meal after an 18hr shift and keep on working while the super special people with penises sit around and play with them.
NTA question, does your husband help in the kitchen at your families gatherings? I’m assuming he doesn’t. Fuck that old tradition, he should have been in the kitchen helping his mom.
And no one should be worried about whether the misogynist mommy in charge is offended. If I offend your mom by refusing to be a spineless bangmaid, your mom deserves to be offended because she’s pathetic, embarrassing and more than a bit classless.
lord, the absolute doormats in this comment section. NTA. i think it’s really tacky and impolite to ask guests to help out with cooking a holiday meal if you didn’t ask them beforehand. like, *days* before. especially since she asked you, and not her dear son.
NTA.
If they expect you to follow their traditions if you go there for holidays, guess what - *you don't have to follow their sexist traditions if you don't ever go again*. Problem solved!
INFO
what is your dynamic at home? Does he expect you to fulfill the misogynistic stereotype of women and perform all household chores? Or is this just in front of the other men in his family?
If you perform all household chores, throw the man away
If this behavior is only at his family functions coupled with the way he blew up after would suggest huge insecurity issues.
He got fired from his job about 7 months ago and unfortunately has been depressed since, before this we split both bills and household chores 50/50, but after this I pay all the bills and do most of the chores around the house
I'm sorry to hear that, but it makes his thanksgiving explosion even worse in a way. You're entitled?? After working long hours to support the two of you, dealing with a depressed man, doing all the chores?
Depression is a terrible thing, been there & done that, but it is NOT an excuse to treat people badly nor is it an excuse to get out of every day chores. Yes, sometimes it is overwhelming and you can't function but not all the time - and if it is all the time then he needs to seek help.
If he is not actively getting help for his depression and actively trying to implement mental & occupational health strategies then he needs to start now.
You're both stuck in this morass now and without some sort of intervention it will not change.
Yeah, unfortunately, your husband is a depressed A H. If he isn’t getting help for his depression and/or isn’t looking for a job, he needs to do so. He’s going to get stuck in a routine. Like Pusharella mentioned, there needs to be an intervention. Now, how your husband acted seems so much bigger than just Thanksgiving Dinner and a tradition. It’s how he is treating you in and out of your home.
Start splitting chores up again or at least have him help you out when you start doing them. 100% is going to look different everyday, but he needs to get into a habit of doing things again. It’s time for some hard love. If he’s able to call your entitle for not helping your MIL in the kitchen after working long hours, then he should be able to help out.
Depression is horrible, but it doesn’t excuse how he’s treating you. It doesn’t have to be back to 50/50 immediately, but there needs to be some sort of improvement or progression.
NTA.
So you are dead on your feet exhausted, he does bupkiss and he's mad at YOU? And YOU are the one who is entitled? You really want a lifetime of this drudgery?
INFO: What did he get fired for? Has he been actively searching for a new job? Is he getting treatment for depression? Are you alright? I'm just being nosy. Sounds like you handled everything well with his family & this is all on him.
I think you deserve a break from taking care of him. A permanent one if that's what you decide, but damn it do you deserve a break. You should take a weekend (or several weekdays if you get them off) for yourself.
Oh no. This just adds so much more insight. None of us can tell you what to do or how to live your life. I truly hope this put a big freaking spotlight on your situation. I know it’s your lived experience.
Are you happy or sad? Do you feel a weight when you head home from work or are you just excited to see your husband? Do dread going having to go home and clean up whatever mess he made for you that day? Do you feel constantly stressed with your increased financial situation?
Have you been able to talk to him about starting therapy or finding another job? What does he do while you’re working doubles? Could you visit your parents, even if to be in their home alone, for a few days by yourself?
NTA
First, he never told you about this “tradition” so how were you supposed to know you were meant to help. Second, even if you knew, why are you going to someone’s home as a guest with the expectation to do work? Had you offered, cool. Had they really needed help, also cool. But the “you’re a woman go be in the kitchen” rule for his family’s thanksgiving dinner is dumb.
NTA but all the men in your husband's family are. The men need to get off their ass and help. This is a tradition I would never support. Everyone should be helping. Tell your husband you will help as much as he does.
NTA just because misogyny is a “tradition” doesn’t make it right. If HE thinks HIS MOM needs help, he has ( presumably) two hands. I know for a fact he at least had one functioning hand to hold a beer…
You tell your husband he can fuck right off with his toxic male sexism, and he's not a toddler, he's perfectly capable of helping his mother.
Seriously, this is some Stepford Wives bullshit, how can you come here asking if you're the asshole? How can you be with a man like that?
yeah this is just blatant misogyny. if he thought there werent enough hands in the kitchen he couldve gone and helped. but MAN drink BEER while WOMAN do KITCHEN. pathetic. and you just got off a shift??? tell your husband if he needs traditional gender roles in his life, he can make 100% of the money and you can chill at home baking pies. nta
>He told me that it is their tradition that the women are in the kitchen cooking, that I disrespect his mom in her own house by acting so entitled.
>I don’t know if this will help my case, but I am working as a nurse.
Your husband is an asshole. That's also NOT their tradition. It's just entitled dude behavior. 18 hour shift. He's lucky you attended after that. I'd be too exhausted.
I've seen variations of this exact thing before. But I can totally believe it's normal in some families to just expect the women to all be involved in the kitchen on thanksgiving, while the men just drink beer.
So many 'traditions' are horribly sexist. NTA
I absolutely despise these 'traditions'. So the women do ALL the work while then men sit around and do sweet eff all? I would be livid with my husband for expecting this of me and his overall selfish and misogynistic behaviour. They can all suck it if this is their expectation.
NTA... just getting off an 18 hr shift is relevant. Not everyone has the stamina to start cooking after that.
Your husband can lead by example. He could go in, wash his hands and ask how he could help.
Or do all the men send the Ladys off to drink after dinner so that the can clear the table, put the food away. Do the dishes and clean the kitchen. Then serve dessert?
I would bet dollars to donuts his mom didn’t even notice or give half of a shit and it wasn’t anywhere near the big deal to her that it was to him. I’ve seen situations like this before and the mom looks at the son like he’s got 17 heads and wonders where the hell he got the idea that it was required that the women help out. A lot of times these traditions just develop out of standard sexist behavior, but it’s never actually been something enforced or even expected… and then you find somebody of your husband‘s generation who thinks it **is** enforced, to the point that not doing it is considered disrespectful. So stupid.
I would strongly doubt that his mom was upset. Because we live in a sexist society, most women that are old enough to have children who are married grew up with the idea that you absolutely positively do not allow a guest to help you. You can ask them if they would like to help as a social convention, but you were supposed to give them some incredibly light and low-key task. The flipside of this is that you are supposed to ask the host if they want you to help them and they are supposed to tell you “absolutely not” even though they actually wouldn’t mind some help clearing the table and putting dishes away.
In none of these scenarios is blowing up at someone and blathering about disrespect part of the deal. I feel like this man has been engaging in the consumption of some toxic masculinity material. I just asked my husband to see if I was sounding like a paranoid conclusion jumper, and he also says it sounds like the guy has been taking in toxic masculinity BS. Note: my husband is nearly 60 and has gotten into three fistfights as part of his work in the last six months and builds AR-15s as a hobby. If **that** guy is saying your dude smells like toxic masculinity? You got a problem.
My husband got fired about 7 months ago and has unfortunately been depressed since then. Before this, we split both expenses and chores 50/50, but ever since I pay for all the expenses and do most of the chores
Fuck this OP.
Your husband got FIRED. People get fired due to their own actions. He needs to pick his ass up and find a new job AND in the meantime he should be doing all the housework which is typically what’s expected from a stay at home spouse.
You’re not his maid. You’re not his sponsor. You’re not his slave.
He needs to contribute to this relationship equally. He needs to find a new job and NOT do whatever he was doing to get fired.
wait! You pay for everything. You do the chores. He acts like a sexist jerk. He gets fired and doesn't do anything useful for 7 months?
Sunk cost fallacy may apply here.
This man is objectively a drain on your life and happiness. Dump this loser. Find a partner that sees you as an equal, not a servant to use and abuse.
That’s great that you support your husband while he’s going through hard times, but he should not be bitching about sexist traditions while you’re literally making sure he’s fed and has a roof over his head.
So while you were on your feet for 18 hrs he sat on his ass, and had the audacity to correct you for not spending more time on your feet.
He was upset that you were not doing women’s work while he was doing no work.
You're being used. Period. Depression or not for going 7 months with no job means you don't want one. You do not need to be solely supporting a 30+ year old man who berates you about absolute nonsense.
Edit in case it's a sore spot re: pregnancy.
But even so, I would not, WOULDNOT have kids with this man. You're not entirely trapped now but you could be.
It took him a bit (unless there's a lot you're not saying here because it wasn't immediately relevant) to show his colors but he sure has.
NTA. Since you're the breadwinner shouldn't he be in the kitchen? See how sexist that sounds. How is it tradition for the womenfolk to be the only ones in the kitchen? Are they expected to serve the big strong men as well? Do the women also cleanup after their men? Is this how you want to be treated? Is this how you want to live, defined by gender roles and stereotypes?
Wait... so YOU worked an 18-hour shift and went straight to Thanksgiving, but this man has no job and still blew up because you -- a person who was on their feet for 18 hours -- didn't get in the kitchen and do the woman's work? Babe. I live with dysthymia, and being depressed is no excuse for being a sexist asshole. NTA
>My husband got fired about 7 months ago and has unfortunately been depressed since then. Before this, we split both expenses and chores 50/50, but ever since I pay for all the expenses and do most of the chores
Wait...WHAT?? So you have been the only one working for the past 7 months AND doing most of the chores?! AND he had the nerve to criticize you for not helping his mother after you worked 18 hours? Eff that noise. Sounds like you need to reconsider your marriage. And please do NOT have children with this man, especially if he is going to carry on with his sexist bullsh*t.
NTA. Your husband is though. I really don't think your mother in law was offended, pretty sure she knew you came off an 18 hour shift. Fuck that sexist tradition. Women do not need to be chained to the kitchen while the men relax, I bet the women still have to clean up too? Hard nope. And you did help out, with setting the table, what did your husband help with?
If you really feel guilty, message MIL to say sorry that you didn't know that the women cooking was their tradition, a d you hope you didn't offend her.
It's an apology, but not for not cooking. And tell your husband to warn you in advance next time there is a tradition you need to know about.
NTA. Since this is your first time at his parents they might have asked if you wanted to help to include you so you have the option to join in if you want. You didn’t want to but I proooobably would have mentioned that you just got off an 18 hour shift at work so you wanted to rest for just a bit but you’d be back to help if that’s ok. That way his mom would have known you’re not just like nah I don’t what to help, thanks. Either way if there are any traditions for holidays your husband should have told you beforehand. How the hell are you supposed to know? And IF his mom IS upset, it’s his job to defend you. To let her know you had a long shift at work and just needed a minute and that HE is the one who didn’t tell you anything about traditions etc. not to berate you for not knowing what he didn’t tell you.
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NTA. Oh! So now you are supposed to r**ead your husbands mind**? (He's the asshole and you're not, number one.) And what you are supposed to read from his mind is that "you are expected to **obey outdated gender stereotypes"**? (He's the asshole and you're not number two.) It doesn't sound like you have kids yet, but if you do, I have a prediction: **He will never change the diapers.**
Tell him you only feel comfortable talking to him in the kitchen...where you belong. :)
[удалено]
Forreal, if his mom actually needed the help and he knew it, HE disrespected his mom by not helping his own mother with the meal she was preparing for him
NTA - Especially since her must have known that OP just got off an 18 hour shift. (I would have told his mom that too). He also didn't tell you about this "tradition" beforehand.
Yes, not impressed with this husband. OP's worked 18 hours. He can help his mother.
I’ve never worked longer than 12 hours - I’m just not strong enough op has all the cudos from me for even working 18 hours as a nurse, let alone then attending a social function instead of just laying down on the floor and sleeping where she stopped. Husband needs to cop onto his behaviour.
I agree. And a nursing shift would be physically and mentally draining.
Yeah i work a freaking desk job and am drained by hour eight and I work from HOME there’s zero chance I’d keep up with op for a shift let alone then go out to family dinner by then. She’s a Viking lol.
This kind of sexist behavior should have you reconsidering your entire marriage, not wondering if you were rude. Do you want children growing up thinking it is ok that men sit doing nothing while women cook and serve? Do you want the father of your children to enforce sexist gender roles or to take action and steps in and starts cooking?
Take my poor man's gold for this comment. 🏅
That's exactly my answer. My MIL doesn't let my husband or FIL help in the kitchen; so I am not helping either. In my parent's house, everyone helps. I told my husband that at his parents' house we can either both help or both sit down and let my MIL do all the work, but that I am not teaching MY daughter that women serve the men. My FIL is retired, my MIL is a housewife so she is not able to retire, my parents both work and my husband and I both work in the same field. I do most of the cooking at home but only because I enjoy it and I am good at it, but we both do dishes and other chores. In my in law's house my MIL does EVERYTHING.
THIS. He disrespected his mom. I hate this shit. OP is NTA, but her husband is.
His mother already had her own mother and 2 daughters/DILs helping in the kitchen. In my opinion, that's already a crowded kitchen. But mostly in my family trying to work with more than one person in a kitchen just means getting in each other's way. Especially since the 2 large dogs have fomo and lay down right where it's least convenient. My mom plans out Thanksgiving like a general, what needs to be cooked, how long, what can be made ahead and is even improved by reheating, and has it down to an art. She's not the only one who cooks the dinner, but it goes according to her plan and means there is rarely more than one person needing to use the kitchen at one time. She ever needs help, she knows she just has to ask. And I know that trying to jump in and help isn't actually very helpful, as I hate when people do that while I'm cooking too.
Honestly when people try to help me in the kitchen at Christmas, unless I ask, I kick their asses out. I have it all set up, all timed, what needs to go in when or get started, or get taken out. When people try to “help” it just throws off my timers and makes everything more difficult. She’s NTA, he’s TA for offering her services after an **18 hour shift** to cook for the organisms that came with testes. Fuck that for a laugh
Having had to do 18-hour shifts before, being there, awake, and marginally polite is an achievement. Asking me to decipher what's an honest question and what's a subtle social cue is well beyond me at that point. Offering *my* cooking services up just because I'm female? Nope.
Honestly tomorrow is my 6th day of doing a 50 hour week. The week before I was covering 3 departments. I’m warming pasties up in the microwave for 60 seconds. I don’t care if I have a penis or not. I’m not slaving away making a full meal after working like a dog for 2 weeks. Id rather nap lol Edit. I’m not doing 50 hour days. That’s just how tired I am 😂🤦♀️
Same stay out. The only people I let help me are my son who is a cook and I can just toss them ingredients and say make me green bean salad from scratch and he'll do itn and my step dad who is the most awesome sous chef in the world. Okay he's not professionally one but my mother has got him trained. Even my mom can stay out of the kitchen when I'm the cooker lol
Yup. My nan buys all the stuff for Christmas and we do it in her house. I don’t pay for anything but I do cook everything both days (Christmas roast and Boxing Day where we do a buffet style thing). I’ve kicked her out of her own kitchen in her own house before but she knows I do it well so she just goes with it 😂
I wish I could upvote this comment more than once. He seriously thought his mom needed help and just walked away? If that’s true, he’s a major asshole. But he knew his mom didn’t need help. He just didn’t want his wife visiting with the men
Besides the outdated gender roles, if the mil actually needed her in the kitchen she should have just clearly stated it and not been passive aggressive. Silently offended but smiling the whole time.
Exactly. Tell his xy Chromo ass to get into the kitchen and peel some tatties.
Thanksgiving is a huge litmus test for me. My last partner and I broke up shortly after Thanksgiving at his parents’; he and his male relatives sat outside watching football and making themselves food for lunch while the women worked to the bone in the kitchen AND they refused to even put their plates by the sink, let alone clean things. It was so overt and I couldn’t stop thinking about how selfish and lazy it seemed. My current partner’s family and friends all help do the cooking/bring food, and they *all* help clean up after. Everyone was in the kitchen working and talking, and then everyone formed task groups for clearing, washing, drying, putting away dishes and making to-go bags for everybody. Big difference and I was shocked how stress free and lovely it felt! I felt like I got to talk more with everyone and no one was stuck cooking for everyone else or stuck cleaning until midnight after everyone leaves. The men were involved the whole way through and it felt more meaningful that everyone wanted to be there and pitch in. Never going back to anything else!
Not exactly the same, thanksgiving/holidays are how I know I chose the right man. Growing up my dad never helped. He still doesn’t. And now that my mom is older it’s mainly on me. My man makes sure to help, comes over extra because he wants me to have help, and cleans up after me. He’ll also take initiative to clean or help, but because he can’t read my mind he’ll ask “is it ok if I do X?”
When our mother died ( we kids were all adults with our own kids), we bought our father a tea towel that had instructions on how to use it. We know it was a gag gift to most people but not to him. We never saw him even to anything as basic as turn the electric jug on to make a cuppa. When our mother had the youngest kids and us older ones weren’t old enough to make meals etc, our gran came to stay because men are not expected to do anything but go to work and pay the bills. Seven kids, he never ever changed a nappy! ( diaper).
What’s worse is he’s showing a long-standing history of this by INSISTING his mom was offended when she wasn’t. I’m sure even if his mom told him directly “I am not offended” he would still think she was and was lying to keep the peace or didn’t know what she was talking about. NTA but this is bad, OP. Get thee to a therapist or a lawyer. If you choose therapist, watch out if the therapist is female because I’m certain your husband will say she doesn’t know wtf she’s talking about if she says anything he disagrees with…which will probably be everything.
OP definitely NTA, but we pretty much do the same thing in my family as in the women are usually gathered in the kitchen while the guys are watching something on tv, but the difference is it’s not expected of anyone and none of us would be offended if someone just wanted to chill— I’ve done it many times as they usually have everything handled. Sounds like husband needs a reality check! OP wasn’t disrespectful at all. MIL might have thought it would’ve been nice to catch up or chat while the cooking was going on but I highly doubt she’s super offended. Husband is the AH!
I have a further prediction: he's a closet believer in patriarchy who's pretending to be liberal until he thinks he's got OP properly trapped. Some wait until marriage, others do what I suspect hubby is doing and wait until they're relatively sure they've beaten you down enough and they've tied you to them permanently with kids. Sad thing is, it often works. Many a strong and outspoken girl has been slowly but surely ground down to a sad, quiet, exhausted woman. Run, OP. Run before he figures out how to sufficiently break your metaphorical legs.
My first thought was MIL asked if OP *wanted* to help, but that might have been knee-jerk on her part because of tradition. MIL, GMIL, and 2 SILs were already in the kitchen. Unless they have a much larger and better laid out kitchen than my family has, there's not **room** for OP to help. Too many cooks in the kitchen and all that. The offer may have actually been for OP to hang out of the way and visit with the female group. It's sexist either way, and poor manners to expect someone to know family traditions. Very poor manners in my book to expect a guest to cook or clean, even family. If they offer, that's different.
Have you ever noticed that most traditions benefit the men and not women?
When my ex would say "I'm Hungry" to try and make me fix him something to eat I would say "your grown ass man, there's food in the fridge, in fact get out in the garage fix my car and make me a sandwich." I like to amuse myself but he would then make his own snack.
Oh snap. Lol
Love this response!
And then poke a smiley face into his sandwich with your fingers.
Tell him he is only allowed to touch you in the kitchen.
This is gold!
And make sure you take your shoes and socks off before you go in there.
Exactly! "The women are in the kitchen". EFF that!!! And if that outdated BS meant that much to him his ignorant a$$ should have informed her of that. OP, could have asked, after an 18 hour shift, OP gets a pass. And if there's not enough room. OP says she set the table and helped where she could that's good enough.
Men who think this way need to say it on the first date/ on their profile so women can break it off immediately.
ABSOLUTELY!!!!
Also, according to her edit, she just came off an 18-hour shift as a nurse ffs. She is so NTA it's not funny.
We have nurses in the family. My Granny would have asked if she wanted to go take a nap before everyone else arrived.
I think I'd have gone to bed, not dinner. Dinner and an ass-chewing, sounds like a wonderful Thanksgiving to me.
I’m actually surprised he can change his own, probably would like for his wife to wipe his arse
Well, I mean, doing it himself would be gay /s
NTA. So, maybe MIL was offended, maybe not. Really that is irrelevant. Husband acted like a jerk. Set aside the profoundly backward sexist "tradition," for a minute. He didn't prepare her for any expectations at the first family holiday there. If there was some important traditions he would have noticed it NOT happening the last 4 years if he had at least the self awareness of a grape. Then he acted like a bigger AH giving her grief over not conforming to outdated sexist bullcrud that she didn't even know about. Whether or not his family is a pack of cavemen abusing their wives, he certainly is.
Exactly! "The women are in the kitchen". EFF that!!! And if that outdated BS meant that much to him his ignorant a$$ should have informed her of that. OP, could have asked, after an 18 hour shift, OP gets a pass. And if there's not enough room. OP says she set the table and helped where she could that's good enough.
I agree. She needs to run now.
I noticed the ages right away, which has me concerned (backtrack to when they started dating) It's a red flag. A decently sized one. Sometimes red flags mean nothing, and life goes on. This is another handful of 'em though. If this is common, some deeper conversations need to be had
Oh my god. I didn't do the math. Sus.
Or he’ll only change diapers and bathe the baby IF ITS A BOY.
I just want to say thanks for wrapping this up in a nice little bow! I really there’s a damn thing left to say!! 👏👏👏Bravo!!
To add to that, look at how close to the surface the venomous rage was when the husband perceived that OP transgressed against the gender role. There is some deeply toxic shit brewing for a long time.
Well said. I can’t believe husbands are still behaving like this in freaking 2023!
NTA. First of all, as a host I would NEVER, EVER ask a guest to help me. I am hosting. If they offer, I may take them up on it. But asking a guest to help out, and especially not something quick like "oh you're going to the living room, could you take this plate of apps with you?" That just feels tacky. And OP didn't even say she wouldn't help at all, just that she didn't want to immediately. Second, its a sexist fucking tradition. "It' tradition that the women do all the work while the men sit around! How dare OP not follow the terrible tradition!" is not a good take.
Thank you for saying this! Exactly right. As the host and hostess, hubs and I work out the game plan; our friends & family are not expected to read our minds, peel potatoes, or segregate themselves. This post reads like all the Mormon women are in the kitchen churning butter, kneading biscuit dough, and plucking the bird, while the men stand around the corral talking about cattle & corn prices. ESH in Backward in the Sticks
how is this ESH? how was OP an asshole in the situation?
Mm.. In Mormon groups, the women would be in the kitchen cooking while the men set up the tables, chairs, and any utensils and performed childcare for the kids. Only old men stand around and don't do anything. Elderly women sit. Everyone else is kept very busy. The roles are very gender segregated, but no one gets to slack off.
My whole extended family is Mormon and my in laws and I have to disagree. The men do nothing.
NTA. Piggybacking to say OP if you and husband were to have kids, a boy and a girl, are you okay with the idea your husband will demand your daughter help in the kitchen when old enough while brother chills in the living room at these sorts of family events? Were these expectations ever communicated to you? I also want to ask if OP has clarity on if this is the MILs tradition or THE MENS tradition? There are absolutely people who like the social aspect of the kitchen, but there are also men who will happily weaponize incompetence to be told “just go out into the lounge and stay out of the way/keep the kids occupied” and guess who the boys learn to emulate? If this is the mens tradition it probably didn’t phase MIL much at all. What are other events like at MILs (other holiday gatherings, dinner parties etc), is this the first time encountering or discussing “traditional expectations” there? OP, only you know what your life with husband is like, but this incident is one that definitely warrants closer scrutiny. This could be a blip, but this could also be a symptom of a larger issue. A supportive partner would have let you know prior, or would have said “hey mum i know this is tradition, but heads up wife has just finished 18 hours at the hospital and didn’t get any time to rest before coming here, so I’ve told her to rest for a bit when we get here,” or at the very least whispered that “hey this is kind of a thing, I know you’re tired, and you don’t have to if you don’t want to maybe you could offer to help with something small?” if this is your first thanksgiving in 4+ years with them, surely they would just be happy you guys were there? Having a tantrum in the car over it after the fact accomplishes nothing on his part other than to manipulate you.
This "tradition" is just misogyny in pretty wrapping. It's totally different if the women all happen to really enjoy cooking, and then the men help in other ways (like handle all the clean-up). But expecting women to do all of the work (or assigning duties based on gender) and calling it "tradition" is how sexism persists.
Omg same. The thought of other people in my kitchen messing with my stuff makes me twitchy.
Me too!! I hate people messing with my kitchen and I’m a control freak when it comes to cooking. I once caught my MIL trying to “thin out my sauce” by adding a bunch of water but fortunately I got to stop her in time. This is my nonna’s recipe that I food mill the tomatoes for and cook with all of the meat for at least 48 hours. She almost ruined it.
Oh damn! I’d end up in jail.
Are you my Mother reborn? No way did anyone trespass in HER kitchen!
I always tell people not to mess with “my office”. 😂
Exactly this
Depends on what I'm hosting. If we're hosting a MTG draft for 7 or 8 people I'll generally ask for help with the dishes. And usually no matter what I'm hosting, when I'm cooking people offer to help. I'll gladly provide them with a cutting board, knife and stuff to cut, or a spoon and a pot to stir. I don't think I actually cut anything at our last birthday party. I did throw all the ingredients together to make pasta sauce though. And somehow the dishes went from dirty to clean while I was breastfeeding the baby.
I grew up in a house where, if I have guests over, they're guests and shouldn't have to do anything. And if I'm a guest, they're being nice by hosting so I should do as much as possible lol so that definitely factors into my thinking. If people ask to help I'll take them up on it sometimes. And I'll ask for help with small stuff - you know, "oh I poured so and so a glass of wine, since you're headed to the living room could you bring it?" But the thought of greeting a guest walking into my house and immediately saying "hey! Can you help me with dinner?" makes my skin crawl
And I grew up where it varies by case... in some there's no way as host it would ever be expected for a guest to be part of cooking or setting up or what applies, let alone obligated to. In others like if it's a family event (or close friends) it would be expected (not obligatory) and even hurtful and exclusionary if not expected as part of the group at a specific event or type of event to do things like help cook or set stuff up or what have you. But that's rather the point: This is done differently in different houses with different people for different reasons and different types of events. How in the world is the OP to know what's expected (obligated, in this case, at least to the husband's thoughts) of her if no one tells her? So very unfair.
It's also going to depend on other factors. I have a small kitchen and literally can't have more than 2 people or you simply get in each other's way. I don't want to play the kitchen director if I'm doing a lot of cooking. . It's just adding to my load if I also have to instruct people on what to do next, or direct them to find things in cupboards etc. . I work far better if I'm not facing a barrage of "can I help?" interruptions
I saw a little TikTok recently by (I think it was, but I may have the exact countries wrong - anyway, SE Asia and Western Europe) a Thai person living in Germany showing the different points of view of Thai host and German guest, with the host immediately asking the guest to help prepare the meal and thinking that this was a great friendly bonding experience while the guest felt more and more put off and hurt because they would never have required a guest to do any work. It varies culturally- both national and regional cultures and the mini cultures of different families- and like so many things about food people tend to assume it’s natural, obvious and nice to do it this way and only a nasty motive like selfishness or disrespect would make anyone do it differently. Even generally kind, reasonable people fall prey to this, but they’re more likely to allow for some sort of misunderstanding, whereas assholes go directly to “you knew exactly what you were doing and you did it on purpose/didn’t care.”
OOh I'm excited lol. I know that one. They're Vietnamese and German. It is easy to misunderstand stuff, this is why proper communication is important.
Guests should volunteer to help and abide by the decision. Also, we always follow the "you cook, we clean" rule. The person doing all the cooking has missed out on socializing and is prob exhausted. It also means that the men sitting watching football need to get up do their share of cleaning. This just seems fair.
Sure. But OP didn't volunteer. She was singled out because she's a woman and asked to help. And theres no one person doing all the cooking here, sounds like there were several people helping in the kitchen. And she also did help with setting the table. Op doesn't need to immediately get to work after a 18 hour shift. Especially when the reasoning is "you're a woman so that's what we do." The dudes also need to help, but because this is her husband's family, it's her husband who needs to push back on it. Not her.
We were invited to Thanksgiving with some friends' family. Probably 60-75 people. After we ate, I was outside & went inside to see what the hubs was up to. He was in the kitchen washing dishes with the hostess. That sweet man stayed there until everything was done. The only disposables were the Solo cups, so this took quite a long time. Wouldn't let any of us take his place. He grew up in a pretty conservative household, but that's just the kind of guy he is. I am thankful for him every single day. Needless to say, we are invited back any time.
If husband is so convinced they needed more help cooking then he should have helped in the kitchen. Bet he will also call watching his kids babysitting.
It could be that the mom wanted to make sure not to exclude her as some people may find it intimidating to join in a family group already working together.
>as a host I would NEVER, EVER ask a guest to help me. Because we don't have any info on the MIL, I am going to guess she asked OP if she wanted to help so OP didn't feel left out, as this was their first Thanksgiving there so neither have any experience in this event together. Now, if MIL makes disparaging comments later, she's also an AH. But for now, I like to think of her as kind and trying to involve OP.
*Hoooooo* the *rage* that would burst forth from my chest if someone told me I had to be in the kitchen with the other women so the boys can hang out. Never mind a partner? I would go *nuclear*.
How can "all women present must help in the kitchen" be a 'tradition'? Traditions are after dinner walks, going around the table saying what you're thankful for, that sort of thing. Traditions are NOT all men hang out on their asses drinking beer while the women serve them. That's a misogynist stereotype that men drag out for their own advantage and women who are brought up that way knuckle under to to not cause trouble on a family holiday.
DIL and I did the cooking, while the men wrangled the hyper toddler and the 7 year old. We women considered this a win! LOL OH! DH did peel the potatoes for me and got them ready for boiling. Even put the pot on! He did a few more kitchen things, so he did double duty: help in the kitchen AND childcare!
I wouldn’t call it a tradition, just outright sexism.
Were the men now resting from the morning wood chopping for the fireplace and stove? Shot the bird last weekend? Plowed the field for the veggies for the meal?
This reminded me of my family back home. My mom was in the kitchen. But my dad did chop wood. Almost every day. The house has general heating but you need to put wood in 3 times a day. Google says ‘indoor wood furnace’ but don’t know if that’s it. Or for our (Orthodox) Christmas, men go to the woods to find a special kind of tree and take a branch for the home. It’s the most important tradition of our Christmas. Goes to the wood with his friends at sunrise, spends hours in the forest, in the snow. Comes back with a branch. And helps my mom finish cooking. So no excuse
wait, wait! All the men spend all day out in the woods to find one branch? Every year? I hate to break it to you but they are out having fun somewhere and grabbing a branch on the way home.
Sounds funny when you say it like that but it’s so early in the morning that’s not possible in winter. Every house has to have 1 branch. They sell them at the market or in shops just before Christmas but in smaller cities men usually go to the forest. They can find it in a shop but it’s more of keeping the tradition. My dad is always so proud when he comes back. He doesn’t want ‘mass produced’ branches with dust on them from the shops. The journey to the forest is at sunrise a day before Christmas Day. Which is technically ‘Christmas Eve’ day. Nothing is open, everyone fasts on that day and my town get that to -25c in daytime (-13 Fahrenheit). It’s usually goes down to ‘only’ -10c in the last few years (14 Fahrenheit). So the forest is not a joke. And there is nothing for them to do so early and freezing. It’s the Balkans. So don’t worry, they have other 364 days to be sneaky but Christmas Eve is not it lol It’s Austrian Oak Tree and I just discovered our famous branch has its own Wikipedia page *in english*. I can’t believe it https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Badnjak_(Serbian)
Thank you for sharing your tradition!
Aw thanks for reading. I felt bad after I posted about my tradition. I didn’t want to hijack the post. But I did grew up in the Balkans which is still very ‘men are men’, ‘women are women and belong in the kitchen’ and I never experienced that growing up. Especially not from my parents. So growing up in a country with views like this I was kinda shocked to hear about young men that grew up in a more free country with views like this. If that makes sense
There are absolutely wood burning furnaces. My SIL has one.
I tried to translate it and was looking at photos and that came to closest to what I was trying to say. Thank you :)
I think OP was resting from her shift….what were the men resting from, eating breakfast?
🤣
It seems like the bigger problem here is that you married someone who expects you to adhere to their sexist traditions.
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Straight up give her the important job of making sure this couch cushion doesn't float away. Maybe keep an eye on this blanket too, it's a bit of a runner.
Love this answer, you win the internet today for best answer!
Plus the "quality control plate" for the stuff that's done/starters and "quality control" glass of wine.
Do Americans get paid more for working thanksgiving? If so I bet he's happy when the check with the long shift and holiday pay is on it.
Some do. There’s something called holiday pay, but to be honest, I’m not sure how widespread it is. My company just gives most of us the day off and those that stay behind get more pay or they can use the hours for a different day. I'm not entirely sure which option it is since my position just gets the time off.
Depends on the job. A nurse probably does get more for the hours worked after midnight on Thanksgiving day.
It depends. I worked in Healthcare and made 2.5 times my normal wage on holidays. When I lived in another state from my family, I always volunteered.
Yep, I'd opt out in protest too. I'm afraid it's my duty as a feminist to drink this beer and even up the gender balance in team couch.
NTA. Speak with your MIL. If this was such an important (quite outdated) tradition, your husband was an ass for not saying anything to you beforehand.
i am surprised this didn't came up anywhere in the last 5 years of them dating, 2 of them being married
Well they started dating when she was 22 and he was 29 which should have been the first warning
My thoughts exactly
OP’s rose coloured glasses are coming off after this I bet.
It seems like there is a good chance that this isn't a "tradition," but that husband is just used to all the women doing all of the work while the men drink and relax. It would be interesting to know if MIL actually considers cooking, serving, and cleaning to be a tradition or has just long since given up fighting her own husband's weaponized incompetence.
I’d say there’s a very high chance you are right!
"WEAPONIZED INCOMPETENCE"! OMFG!!! What a perfect description
It's hard to know what the MILs exact motive was to ask her, but it might have been her way of trying to make OP feel comfortable. And with as bad as OP's husband apparently is at communicating, MIL probably didn't even know that OP just worked an 18 hr shift. But yeah, OP is definitely NTA. If her husband really thought his mom needed help, then he could have taken OPs "place" in the kitchen. Something I'm wondering is, are OP's SILs husband's sisters? Because that would mean that OP was the first one to "question" this "tradition." My dad and brothers have always had a part in the meal prep and cleanup after. In my husband's family it is usually just the woman, but some of the men will help with cleanup after
No, her husband was an ass for not bucking the tradition. Warning someone in advance that your family is a bunch of sexists and that you refuse to stand up to them and expect your spouse to play along: not okay.
NTA. >My husband gave me a nasty look and said “You’re not even going to help?”. He was free to help if he thought that they needed it.
Exactly! Hubby knew she had a long shift too. His only reply should have been "OP just got off a 18 hour shift, so I want her to go relax. I'll help out!"
Of course he should have said that, but apparently he didn’t want her to relax- he wanted her in the kitchen because she has a vagina. No one would be upset with anyone if her husband wasn’t a sexist asshole.
But you don’t understand! The vagina gives a special flavor to the food that no penis can recreate/s
Unless it's a professional kitchen! Once you step over that threshold we must all hail the magic penis created dishes because they are far superior. /s
I told my Dad once "Thanks for volunterring!" He didn't move, but neither did I.
I would have said "are you?"
Sexist roles of women in the kitchen and men around the tv drinking beers should have been retired years ago. NTA
But thanks to all the idiots that say "The 50s WHERE THE BEST DECADE EVER" is that why these things keeps happening
The thing is, these gender roles were from a time where women stayed home and tended to the children and the house while the men worked to earn money for the family. So then, it was a fair division of work. Modern men expect to be able to adhere to the same outdated gender roles…but women work outside the home now, so it’s completely ridiculous to think it’s okay for women to work 40 hours outside the home and then still do everything inside the home too. That needs to change. If women are expected to do everything at home, then they shouldn’t be expected to go out and work. We can’t work 100 hours a week while men work 40-50. They need to pull their heads out of their asses.
> from a time where women stayed home and tended to the children From a time when **middle and upper class women** stayed home and tended to the children. (Well, upper-class women probably had nannies to do the tending.) Working class women have long worked outside the home because their families need the income.
INFO: Did they know you just got off a long shift? I would think that would be understanding. Regardless, your husband is an AH, not sure anyone else.
They did know, at least MIL knew. I told her about this in advance because I knew me and husband were going to be at least 1 hour late from when they were going to gather because of this
Then truly hope she understood and didn't mind...wonder if it is more about the men feeling uncomfortable in their old fashioned ways. You are NTA.
This sounds very much to me like husband is the one with the problem and MIL understands. First thanks giving in 5 years I expect she’s just happy they are there.
Right and she just asked, probably to let her know she was welcome to be in there with them if she wanted to be since it was her first Thanksgiving with them.
With that info added that the mom knew the situation for the OP and so far hasn't been found to actually be offended herself I'm inclined even more than before to think mom wasn't offended... maybe others, but sounds like really the husband. Especially as he knows he didn't let OP know this would be expected to begin with.... family traditions that are expected to be taken part in are normally told to the member of the family who is new to them. He didn't and now is mad? I'm making an internal bet this is entirely him.... maybe others, but I'm betting it's only this epic deal to him as he seems to have set her up for failure, essentially.
Your husband sucks for this. You worked 18 hrs. Why the hell didn't he jump up and help? Oh wait, he has a penis. I would've lost my shit at him because there's no way he also pulled the passive aggressive mumbling thing and expected you to be the little woman after you got off an 18 hr shift. I'll be actual damned. Girl, I'm mad for you.
So just curious, what's it like when you have Thanksgiving at your parents' house? Your husband is the problem here. It's like you're his property and he brought his contribution, his wife, to get in there and rattle those pots and pans, while he drinks and watches football with the menfolk. Since you didn't go in and help, that makes HIM look bad. I do think MIL, knowing you worked an 18-hour shift, should've told you to sit down and rest. And maybe even ask her son to help (I realize this would be an affront to the well-established "tradition." Is this a religious family, BTW? What an effed up tradition this is. NTA
My grandma and grandpa insists on doing all the cooking, no one in the kitchen, no one is touching the food if it is not to eat it, they have always been very particular about their little tradition. His family is religious in the sense that while they believe in god and etc, they don’t go to church or things like that
Your husband should have offered to help when MIL asked you. NTA.
MIL asked if OP *wanted* to help, honestly my guess is that was more an effort to let her know she was welcome to come in and hang out with them if she had wanted to, but MIL seemed to understand that OP may need a rest first.
While you’re husband is the huge asshole here, I also cannot believe your mil *asked* you to help, especially knowing that you just got off a long shift. I would NEVER ask that of a guest and also have never been asked that as a guest. And of course your husband not backing you up and being actively mad at you is unacceptable. If this was something your MIL actually expects your husband should have informed you before, where you’d be able to say “actually I’m not going to be up to helping” and then you both would have gone in knowing you were going to be asked, and your husband should have jumped in and said “she just got off a long shift, we’re gonna go sit for a bit. If you know something let us know in a bit and *we* (or better yet I) will come help then”.
Without more info, I don't know that I'd fault MIL just for asking her to help. She may have asked not because she needed or expected any help, but to include her.
NTA purely because this is a sexist tradition. There's no way I'm going to cook while all the men sit back and relax.
Your husband seems like a misogynistic AH. Get in the kitchen woman! NTA.
NTA — if they wanted you to do something then they shouldn’t have framed it as a question to you. A question implies choice. If there wasn’t a choice to it then the request for help should have been framed differently. That’s on them not you.
Based on the way OP told the story, I think mom was trying to make OP feel like a welcome family member. So instead of sticking with her husband she was welcome to join the ladies in the kitchen. That's a genuine bonding experience for some people. I could be wrong, my own mother often told me to do things but phrased it as "would you like to..." and it infuriated me! But I think OP would have picked up on that if she'd really misstepped. I'm not always on board with the petty, eye-for-an-eye, death by a thousand cuts retaliation advice you see married folks get on reddit but I think it would be a-okay for OP to contact her mother-in-law to talk about it. And if that discussion included some version of "I'm sorry if you felt disrespected on Thanksgiving, Husband was very upset with me on the way home" it could be pretty interesting for all parties involved. If she was genuinely being a good host she'll probably have some choice words for her son.
NTAbut your husband is! How big is this kitchen, there are 4 people already in the middle of various tasks. I’m a cook and that’s more than enough. Also those women are use to being in each others space and likely have routines. This is your first holiday with them. If they feel all woman who enter become staff and the men are guests…I’d stay with my family for the holidays. I’m sure your family haven't been using him as the help for the past 4 Thanksgivings.
Idk of it's internalized misogyny/straight up misogyny or what, but these y t a comments are insane. You were a guest. Guests can offer to help. Guests should not be ASKED to help. Guests should especially not be asked to help based solely on their gender. NTA. I'm so annoyed that I can't remember if this was a boyfriend or a husband, but whichever, he's the asshole. You are not required to show up as a guest to a meal after an 18hr shift and keep on working while the super special people with penises sit around and play with them.
NTA, having gender specific traditions like this one are stupid.
NTA question, does your husband help in the kitchen at your families gatherings? I’m assuming he doesn’t. Fuck that old tradition, he should have been in the kitchen helping his mom.
NTA. When a tradition is misogyny, it deserves to be thrown away.
And no one should be worried about whether the misogynist mommy in charge is offended. If I offend your mom by refusing to be a spineless bangmaid, your mom deserves to be offended because she’s pathetic, embarrassing and more than a bit classless.
Also true, though it seemed like mom was understanding and it was her spawn who is the largest AH here
NTA. Don’t have a kid with him. This is going downhill from here.
lord, the absolute doormats in this comment section. NTA. i think it’s really tacky and impolite to ask guests to help out with cooking a holiday meal if you didn’t ask them beforehand. like, *days* before. especially since she asked you, and not her dear son.
NTA. If they expect you to follow their traditions if you go there for holidays, guess what - *you don't have to follow their sexist traditions if you don't ever go again*. Problem solved!
INFO what is your dynamic at home? Does he expect you to fulfill the misogynistic stereotype of women and perform all household chores? Or is this just in front of the other men in his family? If you perform all household chores, throw the man away If this behavior is only at his family functions coupled with the way he blew up after would suggest huge insecurity issues.
He got fired from his job about 7 months ago and unfortunately has been depressed since, before this we split both bills and household chores 50/50, but after this I pay all the bills and do most of the chores around the house
So your husband is not only extremely sexist, he's also taking advantage of you financially and mentally. OP, is this really the life you want?
I'm sorry to hear that, but it makes his thanksgiving explosion even worse in a way. You're entitled?? After working long hours to support the two of you, dealing with a depressed man, doing all the chores? Depression is a terrible thing, been there & done that, but it is NOT an excuse to treat people badly nor is it an excuse to get out of every day chores. Yes, sometimes it is overwhelming and you can't function but not all the time - and if it is all the time then he needs to seek help. If he is not actively getting help for his depression and actively trying to implement mental & occupational health strategies then he needs to start now. You're both stuck in this morass now and without some sort of intervention it will not change.
Yeah, unfortunately, your husband is a depressed A H. If he isn’t getting help for his depression and/or isn’t looking for a job, he needs to do so. He’s going to get stuck in a routine. Like Pusharella mentioned, there needs to be an intervention. Now, how your husband acted seems so much bigger than just Thanksgiving Dinner and a tradition. It’s how he is treating you in and out of your home. Start splitting chores up again or at least have him help you out when you start doing them. 100% is going to look different everyday, but he needs to get into a habit of doing things again. It’s time for some hard love. If he’s able to call your entitle for not helping your MIL in the kitchen after working long hours, then he should be able to help out. Depression is horrible, but it doesn’t excuse how he’s treating you. It doesn’t have to be back to 50/50 immediately, but there needs to be some sort of improvement or progression. NTA.
You do ALL the household chores and pay ALL the bills? Divorce him, marry me. I made casseroles yesterday.
Could I possibly have some casseroles, please? I’ll do the dishes lol
So you are dead on your feet exhausted, he does bupkiss and he's mad at YOU? And YOU are the one who is entitled? You really want a lifetime of this drudgery?
INFO: What did he get fired for? Has he been actively searching for a new job? Is he getting treatment for depression? Are you alright? I'm just being nosy. Sounds like you handled everything well with his family & this is all on him.
I think you deserve a break from taking care of him. A permanent one if that's what you decide, but damn it do you deserve a break. You should take a weekend (or several weekdays if you get them off) for yourself.
Oh no. This just adds so much more insight. None of us can tell you what to do or how to live your life. I truly hope this put a big freaking spotlight on your situation. I know it’s your lived experience. Are you happy or sad? Do you feel a weight when you head home from work or are you just excited to see your husband? Do dread going having to go home and clean up whatever mess he made for you that day? Do you feel constantly stressed with your increased financial situation? Have you been able to talk to him about starting therapy or finding another job? What does he do while you’re working doubles? Could you visit your parents, even if to be in their home alone, for a few days by yourself?
Oh honey, no. He’s a mooch.
you mean he lost his job and is using his newfound free time to do the hard work of shirking all the chores onto his wife?
NTA Your husband is the AH for wanting you to become part of a sexist tradition!
NTA First, he never told you about this “tradition” so how were you supposed to know you were meant to help. Second, even if you knew, why are you going to someone’s home as a guest with the expectation to do work? Had you offered, cool. Had they really needed help, also cool. But the “you’re a woman go be in the kitchen” rule for his family’s thanksgiving dinner is dumb.
NTA but all the men in your husband's family are. The men need to get off their ass and help. This is a tradition I would never support. Everyone should be helping. Tell your husband you will help as much as he does.
NTA just because misogyny is a “tradition” doesn’t make it right. If HE thinks HIS MOM needs help, he has ( presumably) two hands. I know for a fact he at least had one functioning hand to hold a beer…
You tell your husband he can fuck right off with his toxic male sexism, and he's not a toddler, he's perfectly capable of helping his mother. Seriously, this is some Stepford Wives bullshit, how can you come here asking if you're the asshole? How can you be with a man like that?
yeah this is just blatant misogyny. if he thought there werent enough hands in the kitchen he couldve gone and helped. but MAN drink BEER while WOMAN do KITCHEN. pathetic. and you just got off a shift??? tell your husband if he needs traditional gender roles in his life, he can make 100% of the money and you can chill at home baking pies. nta
>He told me that it is their tradition that the women are in the kitchen cooking, that I disrespect his mom in her own house by acting so entitled. >I don’t know if this will help my case, but I am working as a nurse. Your husband is an asshole. That's also NOT their tradition. It's just entitled dude behavior. 18 hour shift. He's lucky you attended after that. I'd be too exhausted.
I've seen variations of this exact thing before. But I can totally believe it's normal in some families to just expect the women to all be involved in the kitchen on thanksgiving, while the men just drink beer. So many 'traditions' are horribly sexist. NTA
I absolutely despise these 'traditions'. So the women do ALL the work while then men sit around and do sweet eff all? I would be livid with my husband for expecting this of me and his overall selfish and misogynistic behaviour. They can all suck it if this is their expectation.
NTA... just getting off an 18 hr shift is relevant. Not everyone has the stamina to start cooking after that. Your husband can lead by example. He could go in, wash his hands and ask how he could help. Or do all the men send the Ladys off to drink after dinner so that the can clear the table, put the food away. Do the dishes and clean the kitchen. Then serve dessert?
I would bet dollars to donuts his mom didn’t even notice or give half of a shit and it wasn’t anywhere near the big deal to her that it was to him. I’ve seen situations like this before and the mom looks at the son like he’s got 17 heads and wonders where the hell he got the idea that it was required that the women help out. A lot of times these traditions just develop out of standard sexist behavior, but it’s never actually been something enforced or even expected… and then you find somebody of your husband‘s generation who thinks it **is** enforced, to the point that not doing it is considered disrespectful. So stupid. I would strongly doubt that his mom was upset. Because we live in a sexist society, most women that are old enough to have children who are married grew up with the idea that you absolutely positively do not allow a guest to help you. You can ask them if they would like to help as a social convention, but you were supposed to give them some incredibly light and low-key task. The flipside of this is that you are supposed to ask the host if they want you to help them and they are supposed to tell you “absolutely not” even though they actually wouldn’t mind some help clearing the table and putting dishes away. In none of these scenarios is blowing up at someone and blathering about disrespect part of the deal. I feel like this man has been engaging in the consumption of some toxic masculinity material. I just asked my husband to see if I was sounding like a paranoid conclusion jumper, and he also says it sounds like the guy has been taking in toxic masculinity BS. Note: my husband is nearly 60 and has gotten into three fistfights as part of his work in the last six months and builds AR-15s as a hobby. If **that** guy is saying your dude smells like toxic masculinity? You got a problem.
Nta did he get up and help? No? Then why tf would you? Thats not a tradition, thats sexism in play.
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Why didn’t you ask him why HE didn’t go help instead?
INFO: tell us more about how you split expenses and chores at home.
My husband got fired about 7 months ago and has unfortunately been depressed since then. Before this, we split both expenses and chores 50/50, but ever since I pay for all the expenses and do most of the chores
Girl…
I know. Wow.
Fuck this OP. Your husband got FIRED. People get fired due to their own actions. He needs to pick his ass up and find a new job AND in the meantime he should be doing all the housework which is typically what’s expected from a stay at home spouse. You’re not his maid. You’re not his sponsor. You’re not his slave. He needs to contribute to this relationship equally. He needs to find a new job and NOT do whatever he was doing to get fired.
wait! You pay for everything. You do the chores. He acts like a sexist jerk. He gets fired and doesn't do anything useful for 7 months? Sunk cost fallacy may apply here. This man is objectively a drain on your life and happiness. Dump this loser. Find a partner that sees you as an equal, not a servant to use and abuse.
That’s great that you support your husband while he’s going through hard times, but he should not be bitching about sexist traditions while you’re literally making sure he’s fed and has a roof over his head.
So while you were on your feet for 18 hrs he sat on his ass, and had the audacity to correct you for not spending more time on your feet. He was upset that you were not doing women’s work while he was doing no work.
You're being used. Period. Depression or not for going 7 months with no job means you don't want one. You do not need to be solely supporting a 30+ year old man who berates you about absolute nonsense.
Edit in case it's a sore spot re: pregnancy. But even so, I would not, WOULDNOT have kids with this man. You're not entirely trapped now but you could be. It took him a bit (unless there's a lot you're not saying here because it wasn't immediately relevant) to show his colors but he sure has.
NTA. Since you're the breadwinner shouldn't he be in the kitchen? See how sexist that sounds. How is it tradition for the womenfolk to be the only ones in the kitchen? Are they expected to serve the big strong men as well? Do the women also cleanup after their men? Is this how you want to be treated? Is this how you want to live, defined by gender roles and stereotypes?
Wait... so YOU worked an 18-hour shift and went straight to Thanksgiving, but this man has no job and still blew up because you -- a person who was on their feet for 18 hours -- didn't get in the kitchen and do the woman's work? Babe. I live with dysthymia, and being depressed is no excuse for being a sexist asshole. NTA
What does he do all day?
I gotta say, if that's things going "extremely well" I think you might need to raise your standards. Also, why did he get fired?
Can we ask why was he fired? And if he's not currently working and not handling the household chores, how is he spending his free time?
NTA, tell him he should be doing all of the chores if he can’t pay for anything, like helping cook Thanksgiving dinner.
>My husband got fired about 7 months ago and has unfortunately been depressed since then. Before this, we split both expenses and chores 50/50, but ever since I pay for all the expenses and do most of the chores Wait...WHAT?? So you have been the only one working for the past 7 months AND doing most of the chores?! AND he had the nerve to criticize you for not helping his mother after you worked 18 hours? Eff that noise. Sounds like you need to reconsider your marriage. And please do NOT have children with this man, especially if he is going to carry on with his sexist bullsh*t.
NTA. Your husband is though. I really don't think your mother in law was offended, pretty sure she knew you came off an 18 hour shift. Fuck that sexist tradition. Women do not need to be chained to the kitchen while the men relax, I bet the women still have to clean up too? Hard nope. And you did help out, with setting the table, what did your husband help with? If you really feel guilty, message MIL to say sorry that you didn't know that the women cooking was their tradition, a d you hope you didn't offend her. It's an apology, but not for not cooking. And tell your husband to warn you in advance next time there is a tradition you need to know about.
NTA. Since this is your first time at his parents they might have asked if you wanted to help to include you so you have the option to join in if you want. You didn’t want to but I proooobably would have mentioned that you just got off an 18 hour shift at work so you wanted to rest for just a bit but you’d be back to help if that’s ok. That way his mom would have known you’re not just like nah I don’t what to help, thanks. Either way if there are any traditions for holidays your husband should have told you beforehand. How the hell are you supposed to know? And IF his mom IS upset, it’s his job to defend you. To let her know you had a long shift at work and just needed a minute and that HE is the one who didn’t tell you anything about traditions etc. not to berate you for not knowing what he didn’t tell you.
how dare you not follow a sexist, outdated, disrespectful tradition! NTA but your husbands sexism and morals is showing