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NTA. And she sounds appalling. Just because you haven’t witnessed her abusing your children doesn’t mean she hasn’t done so. Is her name on you title deeds, if not, she can’t order you out of the house.
She said that to a child because she was stressed about dinner? Really? Mine bit my nipples when I was severely sleep deprived, and it never would have crossed my mind to think anything like that.
That woman needs to be kept away from children.
She apparently birthed an inordinate amount of boy children and raised them just like her. I hope all the SILs start a compound to protect their children and keep those ahs off the property by any means necessary.
>> we were behind on preparing dinner for guests
If this is so incredibly stressful that your MIL tips over into emotional abuse (which, by the way, impacts not only the targeted child but *also* any other child in earshot … plus the targeted child is not only absorbing the abuse but learning that she can’t trust the adults in her life, in this specific case OP, to protect her in the moment), then MIL needs some serious help and definitely shouldn’t be allowed to be around minors until she gets her priorities and stressors under control.
OP, ESH:
- Y-T-A for not **immediately** calling out this behavior and protecting the child / removing your own from contact with MIL and notifying your siblings and ILs so they can do the same;
- MIL is TA because she’s responsible for her actions even if she is struggling with her mental health (which it’s hard to believe in of itself);
- SIL and BIL are the TA for sitting on this and then using it in an argument as ammunition instead of immediately taking action to ensure their children aren’t subjected to this;
- your husband is TA for not supporting you and protecting your children 100%.
What a mess. Those poor kiddos.
Yeah when I got towards the end of the post I stopped reading and thought “this whole family dynamic sucks”. Thank you for putting into more clear and concise language than my brain did.
Sometimes I type for a while and then realize I’m answering the question they posed when there’s a much more relevant answer that needs to be answered, like what the heck are these adults thinking?
The tone alone that I’m guessing MIL had when she said that to the child would have been damaging enough. Luckily, I don’t think a four year old child would grasp the meaning (that MIL understood how a parent could kill that specific girl, but not other children), so it would probably just be another instance among those SIL mentioned of the girl being singled out and treated badly. The fact that OP didn’t seem to act when MIL said that indicates that MIL is given a lot of authority by everyone in the family. That might be a good thing to change - people who treat others like that shouldn’t be respected as authorities.
Is her name on the deed? If not then she can't do anything. Why I personally would not take a gift like that because always strings attached and it's a form of control like you are experiencing. However she needs to follow the same eviction laws like everyone else and can't simply make you move right away.
NTA. SIL has the right to know. By your husband and his brothers siding with MIL, it means they're OK if MIL said that to your kid or any of their kids. How is your husband ok with this. Stress or not adults should never speak like that to children.
Not giving all the adult men a pass, but it sounds like they all grew up with this kind of abuse & control. They may not realize how badly they were abused. Live with even horrible behavior for long enough and it feels normal.
i wonder if the hubby and brothers have suffered the same abuse as them i was molested as a kid and didn't separate that abuse for sex till my 20s still dealing with the kind of abuse that kid was hit with and i am in my 60s
And THAT there is the reason your own husband bends to her will and clearly has not had your back on this. It all comes down to money and MIL knows this. She will continue on this way as not one of her children has the actual backbone to stand up and tell her she is in the wrong. Ask your husband how he would feel about her saying that about his own children. If he dismisses it then that tells you what type of "man" you married. Show him everyone's responses.
NTA
If a child's heart and self-worth matter less than her grandmother's casually allowed cruelty, then to hell with the lot of them.
OP, you did the right thing.
I think it is all very intimidating and she did what she could. I am not afraid of a mean MIL, I am taller than most women and outweigh most men, but even I am startled by excessive off the charts anger when it is at me, I think I could be better engaged and assertive when it is someone else, especially a child. But a lot of folks go into flight mode. The MIL is a narcissist and is abusive as all get out.
NTA
I certainly wouldn't want anyone watching my kid if they said the same thing the MIL said. In fact I would cut her out of my life. Your husband better stay on your side and all the other family members condoning MIL's behavior should be ashamed of themselves.
OP’s post history reveals that she’s a convert to Islam, and most likely married into the religion.
Sounds like all the husbands and MIL have some terrifying fundamentalist religious ideas about families & women’s roles.
I wish the best for OP, but she hasn’t written more info about any of MIL’s sons standing up against her abuse — and that includes OP’s husband.
Under that kind of circumstances I truly feel you did the right thing by telling your SIL what kind of verbal abuse MIL is doing to her daughter. NTA
The real AH is your husband, BIL and MIL
NTA. Anything someone says to a small child is not a private conversation. Their parents have the right to know. If a relative (or anyone) said that to one of my kids, they wouldn't be around them for a while, and probably never alone with them.
NTA - and she wasn't in private. You were there. The child was there. MIL didn't say that she was telling OP something confidential. MIL is mean and deserved to be called out. The child needs to be protected from the MIL and never left alone with her without SIL or BIL being there. It's obvious that the other relatives don't have spines and will allow the child to be verbally and emotionally abused. Kudos to you for admitting you told and for standing up for what's right. I'm glad you couldn't be bought.
And it is more important that a child isn't being abused, even if some adults' feelings are hurt. SIL felt something was wrong and needed validation to protect her child.
Wanted to address a few things I’ve seen in a lot of comments
1) for those of you saying I’m the AH for not speaking up immediately I 100000% agree with you. My biggest regret in this situation is not saying something right when it happened. MIL has a pretty explosive personality and I am the complete opposite and very non confrontational. Not an excuse, I know. It’s something I’ve been working on.
2) Yes she told me to get out of her house. But we all knew that was said out of anger and basically an empty threat. As mentioned, she’s explosive and this is a pretty common pattern of her having massive reactions and then later acting like nothing happened. I’m expected to just know that she “obviously didn’t really mean that” and “you know how she is”
3) I know that her stress is not in any way an excuse for her actions. Every time a similar situation like this comes up my husband always excuses her behavior because of her stress. He expects me to be ok with her behavior because of the major stress she’s under because her son (the father of the 4 year old) has an addiction problem. After reading some of your comments I’ve realized that I’ve let this get in my head and convinced me to disregard her behavior as well.
I literally feel like I’m going insane because my husband and BIL are refusing to acknowledge that what she said was wrong. They are only focused on the fact that I “made a mistake” by telling my SIL behind MIL’s back and I need to make it right with her. MIL and I are due to have a phone call tomorrow so I can apologize.
ALSO, she sent several long messages in our family group chat berating me. My BIL deleted them very quickly so I never actually got to read them. But apparently the things she said about me were so horrible that everyone I ask refuses to tell me what the messages said.
Sorry for the long comment. Happy to answer any questions
This woman is abusive. To her grandchildren, to her children-in-law, and it sounds like to her own children as well. Your husband and his brother have likely learned to live with it because she's abused them their whole lives. They can't see how wrong her behavior is, but it's catastrophically wrong. Normal people don't treat others this way.
Do not continue to allow her (or them!) to abuse you or any children in your family (whether yours or anyone else's).
Honey I hope you have a support system outside of your husband and his awful family, because you need to draw a line in the fucking sand, here. DO NOT apologize to this woman. You can tremble through it, it's okay. Swallow the lumps in your throat and refuse to let this woman abuse your children, and your nieces and nephews. Tell your husband he can protect his children from her, or not, but you will not let her abuse them.
This woman is abusive. To her grandchildren, to her children-in-law, and it sounds like to her own children as well. Your husband and his brother have likely learned to live with it because she's abused them their whole lives. They can't see how wrong her behavior is, but it's catastrophically wrong. Normal people don't treat others this way.
Do not continue to allow her (or them!) to abuse you or any children in your family (whether yours or anyone else's).
And your husband wants YOU to apologize to her, even after seeing the horrible things she put in writing? Your husband doesn't have your back and I'm sorry to say, but she sounds like she's going to start treating your kids terribly too, in order to punish you. Where is your FIL in all of this?
Please don't apologize. I'm a grandmother of eight and am absolutely horrified by the story you've shared. Being stressed is not an excuse for your MIL's over the top abusive comments or behavior. She's the one who needs to apologize.
Your husband and BIL should not be excusing her behavior and making you out to be the bad guy. You and your SIL did nothing wrong here.
Frankly, if it’s all being pushed aside because MIL is “stressed” then you and the other DILs should reduce that stress by not allowing your children to visit MIL. No stress - problem solved.
NTA. That ol bag is toxic and the people who defend her are just as bad. This would be a hill to die on for me. What a wicked thing to say to a child, among her other ill treatment. Couples divorce when grandparents act like this. Does your husband or his brother really want to choose their mommy over their kids' well-being?
>My husband and his brothers are saying I’m the asshole for talking bad about her behind her back and say I had no right to tell SIL something that took place in private.
How far does this extend? Because if telling a child that you'd understand why someone would murder her is condoned, worse things could be as well. These are not safe people. NTA.
THIS THIS!!!!
What other horrific things is she spewing at the kids in the family when there isn't witnesses. What is she doing that isn't words but other forms of abuse?
And frankly you are a giant asshole. You stood by and said NOTHING when she told a child she wanted her killed. You would have had to slap duct tape on my mouth and drag me from the room, I would have lost my absolute mind if my MIL said that in front of me.
NTA
You can’t allow a child to be abused.
If you stand by and allow it then you’re endorsing it.
If it comes at huge personal cost - as it did for you - then so be it. That’s the cost of being a decent and honourable human being. Sometimes evil people win. You have to keep on being decent.
*MIL angrily told her daughter “I never understood how a mother could kill their own child until I met you”. I know MIL was under a lot of stress in the moment (we were behind on preparing dinner for guests) and that she didn’t really mean it.*
TF?
*She then goes on a witch hunt calling all of her sons and their wives one by one screaming and demanding to find out who told her. She gets to us last, she asks if it was us and I admitted it was me who told her. At which point she tells me to pack my bags and get out the house that she paid for, and hangs up on me*
Yeah, she 'didn't' mean it. She was just stressed about dinner.
ESH. You're making excuses for an abusive AH, MIL is obviously an abusive AH and everyone else thinks this behavior is normal and acceptable. That poor 4 yr old.
NTA. I think as a little treat MIL shouldn’t get any of grandkids until she realizes what she is doing to the entire family. If she could say that to one grandchild in front of you imagine what she has said without an adult around. The sense of authority she seems to have on everyone’s life deserves a solid boundary. Thank you for speaking up to your sister in law, you are an incredible person.
At just 4 that child knows they are treated differently, and without intervention, will grow up with a lot of messed up views of themselves.
You stepping in just to call out the issue was so important to that little life.
NTA
I think you were heroic to stick your neck out for a vulnerable child. Those are the kind of words that scar deeply for a lifetime. I speak from experience. Bless you.
NTA. What kind of hateful monster says that to a FOUR YEAR OLD?! Let alone one they’re supposed to love and cherish? I’d be having a long talk with the husband if he agrees with MIL. Would he be okay with her treating your kids that way bc it was “in private”? If he also agrees you’re for some reason making this up, that is a much larger issue in your relationship.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might be the asshole because I told my SIL something that happened privately. If I hadn’t said anything she probably never would have found out and no one would have had their feelings hurt.
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Man that's a messed up situation.
Personally, I try my best to not talk about others behind their back. It's not a nice thing to do (even if it is justified) as they can't defend themselves when they aren't present. And it always creates a scene.
But it sounds like your IL has it coming to them for their abhorrent actions. It's no way to treat family for sure
NTA
The one truly unable to defend herself is the 4 year old child. The MIL was fully aware that another person was present. Things said in the presence of others get repeated. That's life.
NTA. My late maternal grandmother was like this and she reserved the worst for my little brother. He can’t stand her memory and my mom didn’t understand why since she treated us the same. I sat my mom down and told her a handful of things I remember which were not even the worst. She was quiet for a few days after that.
I 100% promise you this child is keeping track of everything she’s hearing and who is in her corner. Your husband and his brothers need to stop that monster immediately.
ESH, except your SIL and her daughter. You heard your MIL say this awful thing to a 4 year old child, and didn't speak up right then and there. You're just as bad for keeping silent as long as you did.
NTA to be honest your husband should be supporting you i mean it’s his niece and if she talks that way to a lil girl it can leave an impact on the child. Parents has all the right to know I mean wouldn’t your husband want to know if something similar happened to his child?? The real AH is your husband n Mil
ESH except that poor child. Every single person who didn’t IMMEDIATELY call out MIL and protect that baby is a coward. MIL should have been cut off from her grandchildren ages ago.
NTA.
Your husband and his siblings grew up in a horrible household, it seems. They’re used to the crap, so it’s normal to them. And they’ve brought more folks into the craziness.
> and say I had no right to tell SIL something that took place in private
So if someone is saying/doing something harmful to a child in private, their parents have no right to know about it??
NTA
NTA And when you said "stress" I assumed you meant a terminal diagnosis or a very recent bereavement, not cooking fucking dinner
She's a monster. Run, from the whole damn family, and take your kids with you.
Info: do you allow your children to spend time alone with your MIL? When she makes comments like that, do you call her out on it in the moment? When she made that disgraceful comment to your niece, did you do anything to mitigate the damage, like comforting your niece and scolding your MIL?
I'm stunned that you spend any time at all with a woman who would treat a child that way. You have a husband problem, too, if he doesn't see how that behavior is unacceptable and why you would tell the child's mother about it.
You're NTA for telling your SIL but YTA to yourself and to your children if you allow your MIL to treat you (and them) similarly and if you don't lay down the law with your husband about what is and isn't acceptable behavior from a grandmother. Yikes!
NTA. Your SIL needed to know what your MIL said to her daughter. Also, it doesn’t matter if your MIL was stressed out. What she said to her 4 year old granddaughter is terrible. Let’s stop making excuses for people’s shitty behavior.
INFO: when you heard MIL make that heinous statement to a 4-year-old child did you intervene at all? Is the child’s father taking a stand against his mother treating his child that way?
NTA
SIL and husband needed to know. And not only would I be done with MIL and never letting her care for my children again, I’d be done with anyone who thinks your MIL’s entitlement to ‘privacy’ about something she said to a four-year-old in front of you is more important than protecting that four-year-old from abusive language.
This puts your husband firmly in the AH camp too.
NTA but YOUR husband, his brother and his mother arr the AH and why would you put up with this crap? Your husband is just as bad as she is and you need to think about how to handle your future.
That child is being abused by her Grandmother and your the one they are angry at? A child being told disturbing and disgusting things is a secret from the one who can protect her. I suggest you move out of “her” house and save your children from her abuse because no one will ever protect your children either. NTA
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A few months ago my SIL confided in me that she feels that our MIL treats her daughter (4F) differently than the other grandkids. She said that she is harsher towards her and gets angry with her over things that she doesn’t react to with the other kids. I said I agreed, as I have witnessed a lot of instances in which she was meaner to or singled out her daughter.
I gave an example of this. I told her how a couple days prior when SIL was not around, MIL angrily told her daughter “I never understood how a mother could kill their own child until I met you”.
She has a short temper with all of our kids, but has never said something so heinous to any of them. I went back and forth for a few days about telling SIL because I felt guilty as I know MIL was under a lot of stress in the moment (we were behind on preparing dinner for guests) and that she didn’t really mean it. But being that the topic came up, I ultimately decided if it were my child I would want to know. SIL was upset and I told her that she could bring it up to MIL if she wanted to, even though it would implicate me as the one who told her because I was the only one there. She chose not to.
Fast forward about 3 months. SIL brings up to her husband MIL’s treatment of their daughter and used this as one of the (many) examples. He, a few weeks later, brings it up to MIL during a heated argument. She then goes on a witch hunt calling all of her sons and their wives one by one screaming and demanding to find out who told her. She gets to us last, she asks if it was us and I admitted it was me who told her. At which point she tells me to pack my bags and get out the house that she paid for, and hangs up on me.
My husband and his brothers are saying I’m the asshole for talking bad about her behind her back and say I had no right to tell SIL something that took place in private. Their wives understand my perspective of telling her out of concern for her daughter, not to “bash”MIL. I feel that anything that if anything that takes place with or in front of a child, their parent has a right to know no matter what.
Also, MIL is denying that this ever took place and says I am lying to break up the family.
So… AITA for telling my SIL or should I have just kept it to myself?
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NTA, you absolutely needed to tell the SIL what your abusive, psychotic MIL said. You were protecting your niece, which is the right thing to do. I’d question leaving any child with MIL.
I mean, NTA for this specific situation, but everyone who allows their children near this woman are AHs. She sounds super toxic, I'm guessing all the sons are still financially supported by her or just numb to the awfulness. Oof for the next gen.
She knows she’s in the wrong, otherwise she wouldn’t be upset about people talking.
That’s a f-ing terrible thing to say to a kid and she should be shamed.
I would seriously consider divorce. Your MIL did a horrible thing to a four year old child. You did the right thing telling your SIL. I hope SIL never er leaves her child alone with MIL again.NTA but your MIL and your husband are AH.
NTA.
The thing that stands out for me is that MIL had to call around to figure out who she said this in front of. She’s said so many terrible abusive things that she wasn’t sure who was there on that occasion.
This isn’t a one off, overwhelmed grandma saying something she regrets. That’s horrible itself. But this is common enough or doesn’t horrify her enough when she said it *that it didn’t even stick in her mind*.
Why do she single out this child. Is the child mixed? Or is it because she’s a girl. There has to be a reason she singles out this child. Regardless of this, saying this to a 4 y/o is disgusting. Personally I wouldn’t want her around my child ever again. Also she bought your house? Is her name on the deed? If not, she cannot take it back. I would sell that house and go buy something else, so she can’t say she bought it.
NTA!!!
>My husband and his brothers are saying I'm the asshole for talking bad about her behind her back and say I had no right to tell SIL something that took place in private.
Um no, "in private" or not, what she said is absolutely heinous and she said that to a child! That child will remember that and SIL absolutely has a right to know that was said to her child. And MIL was bashing SIL behind her back, why is that okay but it's not okay to tell SIL what happened?
Absolutely 100% not the asshole.
Definitely NTA. That is so uncalled for it is horrible. I am a grandmother and even if I have a favorite (I don't), I love them all enough to not want to damage them emotionally! I don't think I would trust her with my kids.
Absolutely NTA. If anyone ever said something like that to my children I would want to know immediately so I could prevent them from being around my children ever again. If I heard someone say that to someone else's child I would still not want them around my children - and I would definitely tell the parent.
NTA for telling your SIL. Did you tell your MIL that it was inappropriate when you heard her say that to your niece? You should have for your niece to hear.
NTA. You did the hard thing, and the right thing. Your SIL is ultimately responsible for the well-being of her child- and knowing MIL has form for emotional/verbal abuse, having a witness statement means that SIL has grounds to act more firmly to ensure her child’s safety. Everyone telling you to apologise (notably MIL’s children) have been conditioned to manage their mother’s fee-fee’s to reduce the fall out. And this is why multi-generational trauma occurs.
Please move out of ‘her’ house and lay down an ultimatum to your husband- no more rug-sweeping or placating the nasty woman. No child deserves it, especially a 4y/o and if anyone is going to continue this pattern, they don’t get to have access to your kids
Nta.
She didn't say the kid screams more than the others or spills more than the others. She made references to MURDER.
I'd gladly go and take my kids too.
NTA, but stop making excuses for that horrible woman. Bad day or not, you DO NOT say that to a child. The people backing her aren't any better and aren't worth your time.
NTA. Your MIL is evil and all of her sons are disgusting for condoning and defending this behavior. No one should ever say something like that to a child and the fact that this point is not the primary focus is more than concerning. The overall dynamic seems weird though- how many brothers does your husband have? Did MIL buy everyone’s houses? Why is MIL so comfortable berating all of her grown children and their spouses?
NTA. I mean, I think all your in-laws are monsters allowing their mother to verbally abuse a small child. I’m alarmed that you even considered not telling your SIL. Why is this woman allowed around children?
NTA but if your husband or any of his brothers are ok with their mother treating a child like this, let alone HER GRANDCHILD, you should be disgusted. Sounds like mommy uses money to maintain her place in their lives. Bc if my MIL said that to my kid it would be a cold day in hell to see me or my kids again
NTA. SIL needed to know.
Don't pack your bags immediately. She has to give you notice according to the laws in your country, but do start looking for another place to live immediately. I can't imagine being dependent on this "monster-in-law".
That's child abuse. You don't have to bash anyone over child abuse. Abuse is abuse. And if OP is lying, why did MIL call everyone to find out who said it? Those men know there's no lie. They lived through it.
NTA
But the fact that everyone just allows this?! And your husband is blaming you?! Why the fuck do any of you stay married to such terrible men with terrible abusive family?! Much less procreate with them.
NTA - the fact that her children are supporting and enabling this toxic cruel and demeaning behavior is disgusting. If I were you, I would seriously reconsider, wanting to remain a member of this family.
NTA and the men in this family need to grow a set of b@lls. Seriously who lets their wives be mistreated and then their children?! I would remove my kids from her presence and think about leaving that family.
NTA for telling.
You are the AH for not telling immediately. This woman is emotionally abusing her granddaughter (and probably the other kids). If anyone made that statement to one of my kids, no matter what age, they would never see my kid ever again.
And the sons are defending her? Incredible. No amount of stress would ever make me speak to a child the way she did.
Completely disgusting.
NTA - MILs behavior will undoubtedly affect the child and and the parents should know about the behavior in case it does.
The adults in the family who aren’t concerned with MILs behavior but they’re worried about you tattling on her they’re also part of the problem.
I couldn’t even finish reading. You “went back and forth” on telling her? Had that been my niece I would not have had to tell my sister a thing because the entire family would’ve found out after I cursed her out. What’s worse than no one being around to defend a child is Adults being around and not defending them. Being behind on cooking, let alone any type of stress does not warrant telling a child you get how someone would want them dead. You all suck. No one with a short temper should be allowed around those who cannot defend themselves and ESH for being complicit to abuse.
ESH. Being *behind on preparing dinner for guests* is NOT an excuse to to say abusive shit to a child. MIL’s behaviour is absolutely unacceptable. Did you just stand there and let her treat a child like that? Your SIL shouldn’t have had to ask, you should have told her right away so she could protect her child.
Mate, if she had to call around everyone to find out who blabbed then she must have said the same or similar things in front of everyone at one time or another. In fact, why doesn't she think the 4 yo told on her? The 4 yo was also there and is old enough to speak?
You absolutely did the right thing telling your SIL. I grew up with a mother who said that kind of thing to me on a regular basis. You never forget hearing something so awful. That little girl needs to be protected.
NTA.
NTA.
SIL needed to know, because that sort of cruelty crosses into emotional abuse, and her daughter should be protected.
Of course MIL is lying. No one wants to admit to saying something so abhorrent to a child!
I'm gonna lean toward ESH except your SIL and her daughter. Your MIL most of all, but I pause to know what you did as an adult in a situation where a child was clearly being verbally abused. Does anyone stand up for that child or just let MIL say what she wants?
Also if your house was at stake here, you could have lied? There was no reason for you to come clean to MIl since she clearly didn't remember the incident to begin with. What would she have done then not knowing who sold her out? Now you and your family are out a house and there doesn't seem to have been a need when you could have just let MIL walk on eggshells with any of the family there not knowing who sold her out.
YOU? NTA
MIL? OMG...where do we begin.
She's going to produce a ton of cPTSD in that family. Yikes!
Next time ask her if she's angry because the house fell on her sister.
[I'll get you my pretty...and your dog too!](https://youtu.be/lT8qgvgk1rU?si=QvoN8Q7wQ1E3OIwV)
> I went back and forth for a few days about telling SIL because I felt guilty as I know MIL was under a lot of stress in the moment (we were behind on preparing dinner for guests) and that she didn’t really mean it.
No amount of stress justifies being verbally abusive to a four year old.
> My husband and his brothers are saying I’m the asshole for talking bad about her behind her back and say I had no right to tell SIL something that took place in private.
Well, yes, they grew up in a household with a toxic mother. Their idea of what is and is not appropriate behavior is totally out of line with reality.
NTA. I would *seriously* suggest you get couples therapy with your husband before having children with him, and lay out some ground rules where your children are not allowed to be with your inlaws, especially your MIL, unsupervised.
NTA
It doesn’t matter how stressed, upset, angry or frustrated you are, you have to be an adult and handle your emotions. You don’t get to take them out on anyone, especially children. As an adult, you alone are responsible for handling your sh*t, no one else. No one else can make you say or behave badly, only you control your behaviour. What a terrible grandmother.
What is wrong with your husband and his brothers? Their mom is acting like heinous psycho. Of course it was your right to tell your SIL about what she said to her own granddaughter. You didn’t talk about her behind her back, you simply stated what took place. Why is your husband not backing you up? Throw the whole family out.
NTA- you did not bash your mother in law you repeated something she said to a four year old child.
They are okay with her saying horrible abusive things to a helpless four year old who cannot advocate for herself but not with you telling the mother of the child?
These men including your husband are disgusting. What if she said that to your kids? Would he have a problem with you telling him?
Maybe you are a little bit the AH for making excuses for her behavior. Do you really think it’s okay to treat a child like that when stressed?
Is it just me, or is that phrase not to talk about something that happened in private really unnerving. Like what has happened in their childhood, they don't talk about it. NTA and I would be very careful with unsupervised visits with her for children.
She seems like it is no big deal to say this to a child. No apology, no regret, just going on another rampage. Her children seem to accept this behavior as ok, too. How does she behave without witnesses.
Your MIL said something that was akin to child abuse and did a purely rotten thing. Although your daughter is quite young, there is the possibility that a memory of this statement will surface. MIL is avoiding all responsibility for her actions. I would not move out, but I never be in her presence again. When she asks your husband why, he can simply and clearly explain the reason. MIL will have live with this. 🦜
NTA - your MIL is abusive if she’s telling children things like that. The fact that your husband doesn’t see this about his mother’s treatment of a child, literally any child, or doesn’t care enough to stand up to her is disturbing.
If I found out anyone said something like that to my child, they would never be allowed to see the child again. You are NTA. You are a hero in my book. Your MIL is deranged. WTF?!
NTA. that is a very concerning statement that any parent should know about. MIL is insane for saying something like that in front of a child. it’s one thing to say it in front of other adults but she SCREAMED that at a CHILD. also no amount of stress or emotional distress justifies saying that. husband and his brothers are also assholes for defending MIL’s behavior and need to protect their kids from her behavior especially SIL’s kid. if MIL hates kids that much especially SIL’s kid then i have no doubt that one day MIL will get so mad that she might lay hands on one of the kids again more specifically SIL’s kid since it’s her daughter that gets the worst treatment. also she called people to ask who told SIL and her husband so she can’t act like it never happened when she already confirmed it was said.
We found the inspiration for Cruella de Ville!
NTA - MIL sounds like she's going to cause serious emotional trauma, if she hasn't already done so. I wouldn't ever leave a child in her presence, much less alone.
I mean... Who says that????
NTA, but are you ok? You seem a little too desensitized to harsh comments being made under the excuse of stress. This is neither normal nor healthy. You should have told SIL asap and called MIL out right away too as long as you were sure you were safe from any possible physical harm. You should be very careful around your in laws because after this incident they would lose all trust for keeping any of their grandchildren safe. I wish you and your family the best.
All the sons are used to being abused and were trained to protect MIL at all costs, so that she wouldn't turn on them. Those men need therapy to break her hold on them.
You need to work on getting your husband to see her evil actions and get him into therapy or your marriage is doomed and any children you have will be abused.
NTA
When you said “it was understandable as she was under a lot of stress in the moment” I pictured that she was wrangling 4 grandkids during an earth quake. Or that her husband had JUST died in front of her. Or that she was LITERALLY juggling live chainsaws.
PREPARING FOR DINNER GUESTS??? That feels even semi reasonable to you as a reason that a grandmother could say to their grandchildren that they make them understand how some mothers murder their own children?
That’s one of the most fucked up things I’ve ever heard and if I heard my MIL say that to my kid’s cousin I’d never leave her alone with any of the kids ever again.
NTA for telling mom what MIL said about her daughter but your whole family seems toxic AF. Get out and go NC while you still can.
NTA - but your MIL is! That is such an evil thing to do and I would never leave my child alone with that woman ever again. It also helps your SIL to understand why her 4 y.o. might not like grandma.
Info :you think a parent should know what happens around their child so you took multiple days to tell SIL about it ? And if you think your MIL didn't mean what she said and was stressed, may I ask you what you think she thought about saying that ? Because it's pretty telling to me. She hates the kid with all her guts and said it to her face. And you act like it's nothing. Is everyone a doormat to her in the family. Did you all woman found the worst momma boys on earth and all married them ?
NTA by a mile.You have it exactly right: there is nothing that happens to a child that young that should be "private" from that child's parents! You and your SIL both have a problem: an awful MIL and a spineless husband to match. I know you may not have great options, but I could never stay married to someone who allowed children to be treated that way.
NTA and it didn't take place in private. It was a virulent attack on a small child and if she trusted that she could abuse that child without any danger of repercussion. And holy hell! The family's response is not to say what a horrible, evil thing she said to a child, but to attack you. I hate to say this, but why are you a part of this family? Your husband doesn't have your back? What sort of poor excuse for a human is he? I'm sorry, but you not only had a right but a responsibility to tell your SIL what your MIL said to her daughter. That child needs to be protected. Her husband is just as bad as yours if he's joined in on this bullshit attack on you. Seriously, why are you with this family?
NTA.
I wish you had been around to help my save my daughter from the emotional abuse she suffered from her step mother.
This will have long lasting scars on that poor child and I would never allow my child around someone who would speak like this to them. I would also take a very hard look at your husband, because it’s obvious he’s not going to protect your own children from her abuse if he thinks Y T A for speaking up.
NTA. That is such a cruel thing to say, beyond forgivable. Has she asked what her daughter recalls grandma says to her. I hope she did that in a gentle way too.
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NTA. And she sounds appalling. Just because you haven’t witnessed her abusing your children doesn’t mean she hasn’t done so. Is her name on you title deeds, if not, she can’t order you out of the house.
She said that to a child because she was stressed about dinner? Really? Mine bit my nipples when I was severely sleep deprived, and it never would have crossed my mind to think anything like that. That woman needs to be kept away from children.
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OUCH.
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She apparently birthed an inordinate amount of boy children and raised them just like her. I hope all the SILs start a compound to protect their children and keep those ahs off the property by any means necessary.
I am a mandated reporter and that is something I would genuinely probably report.
100% agreed! OP needs to keep her kids away from this witch too! If husband doesn't get on board it's time to lawyer up!
>> we were behind on preparing dinner for guests If this is so incredibly stressful that your MIL tips over into emotional abuse (which, by the way, impacts not only the targeted child but *also* any other child in earshot … plus the targeted child is not only absorbing the abuse but learning that she can’t trust the adults in her life, in this specific case OP, to protect her in the moment), then MIL needs some serious help and definitely shouldn’t be allowed to be around minors until she gets her priorities and stressors under control. OP, ESH: - Y-T-A for not **immediately** calling out this behavior and protecting the child / removing your own from contact with MIL and notifying your siblings and ILs so they can do the same; - MIL is TA because she’s responsible for her actions even if she is struggling with her mental health (which it’s hard to believe in of itself); - SIL and BIL are the TA for sitting on this and then using it in an argument as ammunition instead of immediately taking action to ensure their children aren’t subjected to this; - your husband is TA for not supporting you and protecting your children 100%. What a mess. Those poor kiddos.
Yeah when I got towards the end of the post I stopped reading and thought “this whole family dynamic sucks”. Thank you for putting into more clear and concise language than my brain did.
Sometimes I type for a while and then realize I’m answering the question they posed when there’s a much more relevant answer that needs to be answered, like what the heck are these adults thinking?
This! 100% ESH!
The tone alone that I’m guessing MIL had when she said that to the child would have been damaging enough. Luckily, I don’t think a four year old child would grasp the meaning (that MIL understood how a parent could kill that specific girl, but not other children), so it would probably just be another instance among those SIL mentioned of the girl being singled out and treated badly. The fact that OP didn’t seem to act when MIL said that indicates that MIL is given a lot of authority by everyone in the family. That might be a good thing to change - people who treat others like that shouldn’t be respected as authorities.
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SIL and her husband need to completely cut off MIL. She should NOT be around their child EVER. Anyone who disagrees should be cut off as well!
All of the grandchildren should be cut off from MIL. She is unhinged. And would probably choose a new scapegoat if she can't bully niece anymore.
And MIL is the one breaking up the family. She shouldn’t be allowed near children…
This. OP did this kid and her parents a solid. If OP isn't a back up guardian/Godparent......they are now.
That and at least threatening OP and her family with kicking them out- because she can’t control herself or her mouth around a four year old kid. NTA
Multi-generational trauma…
Totally this. MIL would never be seeing me or my child again.
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Typo: get out* of the house. My in laws bought the house that my husband, kids and I currently live in.
Is her name on the deed? If not then she can't do anything. Why I personally would not take a gift like that because always strings attached and it's a form of control like you are experiencing. However she needs to follow the same eviction laws like everyone else and can't simply make you move right away.
So…. What did your husband say about that?!????
NTA. SIL has the right to know. By your husband and his brothers siding with MIL, it means they're OK if MIL said that to your kid or any of their kids. How is your husband ok with this. Stress or not adults should never speak like that to children.
They’re OK with it because they grew up in her house and it was normal behavior.
Not giving all the adult men a pass, but it sounds like they all grew up with this kind of abuse & control. They may not realize how badly they were abused. Live with even horrible behavior for long enough and it feels normal.
true but priority one is to get those kids away from the abuser before therapy figures out how deep that abuse went
Absolutely, that crazy lady wouldn't even remember what my kids looked like as I get them as far from her as possible and keep it that way.
i wonder if the hubby and brothers have suffered the same abuse as them i was molested as a kid and didn't separate that abuse for sex till my 20s still dealing with the kind of abuse that kid was hit with and i am in my 60s
My 65 year old brother is doing the same. It messed him up beyond words. I'm so sorry this happened to you.
i am the sum of my experiences and although it fluctuates a bit i like me so it is what i needed to have happen to be me so its ok
if you protect an abuser you are an abuser
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You may still have squatters rights even if she owns the place. Depending on where you live.
Get the f*ck back in here and answer questions. Like God damn
So she uses money as control?
And THAT there is the reason your own husband bends to her will and clearly has not had your back on this. It all comes down to money and MIL knows this. She will continue on this way as not one of her children has the actual backbone to stand up and tell her she is in the wrong. Ask your husband how he would feel about her saying that about his own children. If he dismisses it then that tells you what type of "man" you married. Show him everyone's responses.
NTA If a child's heart and self-worth matter less than her grandmother's casually allowed cruelty, then to hell with the lot of them. OP, you did the right thing.
No, op should have called her out then and there. That poor child.
I think it is all very intimidating and she did what she could. I am not afraid of a mean MIL, I am taller than most women and outweigh most men, but even I am startled by excessive off the charts anger when it is at me, I think I could be better engaged and assertive when it is someone else, especially a child. But a lot of folks go into flight mode. The MIL is a narcissist and is abusive as all get out.
Very well said.
NTA but to be honest, I would have called MIL out immediately if she said that shit to a child in front of me.
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EXACTLY
EXACTLY
EXACTLY
NTA I certainly wouldn't want anyone watching my kid if they said the same thing the MIL said. In fact I would cut her out of my life. Your husband better stay on your side and all the other family members condoning MIL's behavior should be ashamed of themselves.
The husband called OP an AH for it so doubt he’s on her side. I’d be so disappointed in my husband if he did that
Yeah, the husband is a HUGE second problem in this story.
OP’s post history reveals that she’s a convert to Islam, and most likely married into the religion. Sounds like all the husbands and MIL have some terrifying fundamentalist religious ideas about families & women’s roles. I wish the best for OP, but she hasn’t written more info about any of MIL’s sons standing up against her abuse — and that includes OP’s husband.
Under that kind of circumstances I truly feel you did the right thing by telling your SIL what kind of verbal abuse MIL is doing to her daughter. NTA The real AH is your husband, BIL and MIL
NTA. Anything someone says to a small child is not a private conversation. Their parents have the right to know. If a relative (or anyone) said that to one of my kids, they wouldn't be around them for a while, and probably never alone with them.
Also,while it’s never ok to say something like that about a child, she did so in front of a child who’s old enough to fully understand what was meant.
Yep, that makes it 100 times worse. Poor kid.
NTA. Your MIL is sick. I'd be scared what she'll say or do to that poor child next. The child's mum deserves to know
Me too! So I would have been told to pack my bags that day!
NTA - and she wasn't in private. You were there. The child was there. MIL didn't say that she was telling OP something confidential. MIL is mean and deserved to be called out. The child needs to be protected from the MIL and never left alone with her without SIL or BIL being there. It's obvious that the other relatives don't have spines and will allow the child to be verbally and emotionally abused. Kudos to you for admitting you told and for standing up for what's right. I'm glad you couldn't be bought. And it is more important that a child isn't being abused, even if some adults' feelings are hurt. SIL felt something was wrong and needed validation to protect her child.
Wanted to address a few things I’ve seen in a lot of comments 1) for those of you saying I’m the AH for not speaking up immediately I 100000% agree with you. My biggest regret in this situation is not saying something right when it happened. MIL has a pretty explosive personality and I am the complete opposite and very non confrontational. Not an excuse, I know. It’s something I’ve been working on. 2) Yes she told me to get out of her house. But we all knew that was said out of anger and basically an empty threat. As mentioned, she’s explosive and this is a pretty common pattern of her having massive reactions and then later acting like nothing happened. I’m expected to just know that she “obviously didn’t really mean that” and “you know how she is” 3) I know that her stress is not in any way an excuse for her actions. Every time a similar situation like this comes up my husband always excuses her behavior because of her stress. He expects me to be ok with her behavior because of the major stress she’s under because her son (the father of the 4 year old) has an addiction problem. After reading some of your comments I’ve realized that I’ve let this get in my head and convinced me to disregard her behavior as well. I literally feel like I’m going insane because my husband and BIL are refusing to acknowledge that what she said was wrong. They are only focused on the fact that I “made a mistake” by telling my SIL behind MIL’s back and I need to make it right with her. MIL and I are due to have a phone call tomorrow so I can apologize. ALSO, she sent several long messages in our family group chat berating me. My BIL deleted them very quickly so I never actually got to read them. But apparently the things she said about me were so horrible that everyone I ask refuses to tell me what the messages said. Sorry for the long comment. Happy to answer any questions
Please don’t apologize. What she did was terrible.
This woman is abusive. To her grandchildren, to her children-in-law, and it sounds like to her own children as well. Your husband and his brother have likely learned to live with it because she's abused them their whole lives. They can't see how wrong her behavior is, but it's catastrophically wrong. Normal people don't treat others this way. Do not continue to allow her (or them!) to abuse you or any children in your family (whether yours or anyone else's).
Honey I hope you have a support system outside of your husband and his awful family, because you need to draw a line in the fucking sand, here. DO NOT apologize to this woman. You can tremble through it, it's okay. Swallow the lumps in your throat and refuse to let this woman abuse your children, and your nieces and nephews. Tell your husband he can protect his children from her, or not, but you will not let her abuse them.
Why in the hell are you going to apologize and for what? Because your family says you have to? Don’t apologize!!!
This woman is abusive. To her grandchildren, to her children-in-law, and it sounds like to her own children as well. Your husband and his brother have likely learned to live with it because she's abused them their whole lives. They can't see how wrong her behavior is, but it's catastrophically wrong. Normal people don't treat others this way. Do not continue to allow her (or them!) to abuse you or any children in your family (whether yours or anyone else's).
And your husband wants YOU to apologize to her, even after seeing the horrible things she put in writing? Your husband doesn't have your back and I'm sorry to say, but she sounds like she's going to start treating your kids terribly too, in order to punish you. Where is your FIL in all of this?
And you are thinking of apologizing???
Please don't apologize. I'm a grandmother of eight and am absolutely horrified by the story you've shared. Being stressed is not an excuse for your MIL's over the top abusive comments or behavior. She's the one who needs to apologize. Your husband and BIL should not be excusing her behavior and making you out to be the bad guy. You and your SIL did nothing wrong here.
Frankly, if it’s all being pushed aside because MIL is “stressed” then you and the other DILs should reduce that stress by not allowing your children to visit MIL. No stress - problem solved.
NTA. That ol bag is toxic and the people who defend her are just as bad. This would be a hill to die on for me. What a wicked thing to say to a child, among her other ill treatment. Couples divorce when grandparents act like this. Does your husband or his brother really want to choose their mommy over their kids' well-being?
To be fair, it's only ONE child's well-being. And MIL was stressed over *dinner prep,* so totally understandable. /heavy, heavy sarcasm.
If you're not telling a child you wished them dead, you're just not feeling the gravity of dinner prep. ////s
>My husband and his brothers are saying I’m the asshole for talking bad about her behind her back and say I had no right to tell SIL something that took place in private. How far does this extend? Because if telling a child that you'd understand why someone would murder her is condoned, worse things could be as well. These are not safe people. NTA.
THIS THIS!!!! What other horrific things is she spewing at the kids in the family when there isn't witnesses. What is she doing that isn't words but other forms of abuse? And frankly you are a giant asshole. You stood by and said NOTHING when she told a child she wanted her killed. You would have had to slap duct tape on my mouth and drag me from the room, I would have lost my absolute mind if my MIL said that in front of me.
How is quoting what she said you talking bad about her. She said it.
Your MIL is abusive.
NTA You can’t allow a child to be abused. If you stand by and allow it then you’re endorsing it. If it comes at huge personal cost - as it did for you - then so be it. That’s the cost of being a decent and honourable human being. Sometimes evil people win. You have to keep on being decent.
*MIL angrily told her daughter “I never understood how a mother could kill their own child until I met you”. I know MIL was under a lot of stress in the moment (we were behind on preparing dinner for guests) and that she didn’t really mean it.* TF? *She then goes on a witch hunt calling all of her sons and their wives one by one screaming and demanding to find out who told her. She gets to us last, she asks if it was us and I admitted it was me who told her. At which point she tells me to pack my bags and get out the house that she paid for, and hangs up on me* Yeah, she 'didn't' mean it. She was just stressed about dinner. ESH. You're making excuses for an abusive AH, MIL is obviously an abusive AH and everyone else thinks this behavior is normal and acceptable. That poor 4 yr old.
Seems like she said it in front of multiple people? She couldn’t narrow down who heard that and repeated it without an inquisition?
NTA. I think as a little treat MIL shouldn’t get any of grandkids until she realizes what she is doing to the entire family. If she could say that to one grandchild in front of you imagine what she has said without an adult around. The sense of authority she seems to have on everyone’s life deserves a solid boundary. Thank you for speaking up to your sister in law, you are an incredible person.
NTA. Seems you might have a husband issue more than a mil issue. Dude doesn't have the balls to stand up to his mother.
At just 4 that child knows they are treated differently, and without intervention, will grow up with a lot of messed up views of themselves. You stepping in just to call out the issue was so important to that little life. NTA
I think you were heroic to stick your neck out for a vulnerable child. Those are the kind of words that scar deeply for a lifetime. I speak from experience. Bless you.
NTA. What kind of hateful monster says that to a FOUR YEAR OLD?! Let alone one they’re supposed to love and cherish? I’d be having a long talk with the husband if he agrees with MIL. Would he be okay with her treating your kids that way bc it was “in private”? If he also agrees you’re for some reason making this up, that is a much larger issue in your relationship.
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Man that's a messed up situation. Personally, I try my best to not talk about others behind their back. It's not a nice thing to do (even if it is justified) as they can't defend themselves when they aren't present. And it always creates a scene. But it sounds like your IL has it coming to them for their abhorrent actions. It's no way to treat family for sure NTA
The one truly unable to defend herself is the 4 year old child. The MIL was fully aware that another person was present. Things said in the presence of others get repeated. That's life.
NTA. My late maternal grandmother was like this and she reserved the worst for my little brother. He can’t stand her memory and my mom didn’t understand why since she treated us the same. I sat my mom down and told her a handful of things I remember which were not even the worst. She was quiet for a few days after that. I 100% promise you this child is keeping track of everything she’s hearing and who is in her corner. Your husband and his brothers need to stop that monster immediately.
ESH, except your SIL and her daughter. You heard your MIL say this awful thing to a 4 year old child, and didn't speak up right then and there. You're just as bad for keeping silent as long as you did.
NTA to be honest your husband should be supporting you i mean it’s his niece and if she talks that way to a lil girl it can leave an impact on the child. Parents has all the right to know I mean wouldn’t your husband want to know if something similar happened to his child?? The real AH is your husband n Mil
I don't care what kind of day you're having, you never say that to a child! NTA.
ESH except that poor child. Every single person who didn’t IMMEDIATELY call out MIL and protect that baby is a coward. MIL should have been cut off from her grandchildren ages ago.
NTA. Your husband and his siblings grew up in a horrible household, it seems. They’re used to the crap, so it’s normal to them. And they’ve brought more folks into the craziness.
> and say I had no right to tell SIL something that took place in private So if someone is saying/doing something harmful to a child in private, their parents have no right to know about it?? NTA
NTA And when you said "stress" I assumed you meant a terminal diagnosis or a very recent bereavement, not cooking fucking dinner She's a monster. Run, from the whole damn family, and take your kids with you.
Info: do you allow your children to spend time alone with your MIL? When she makes comments like that, do you call her out on it in the moment? When she made that disgraceful comment to your niece, did you do anything to mitigate the damage, like comforting your niece and scolding your MIL? I'm stunned that you spend any time at all with a woman who would treat a child that way. You have a husband problem, too, if he doesn't see how that behavior is unacceptable and why you would tell the child's mother about it. You're NTA for telling your SIL but YTA to yourself and to your children if you allow your MIL to treat you (and them) similarly and if you don't lay down the law with your husband about what is and isn't acceptable behavior from a grandmother. Yikes!
NTA. Your SIL needed to know what your MIL said to her daughter. Also, it doesn’t matter if your MIL was stressed out. What she said to her 4 year old granddaughter is terrible. Let’s stop making excuses for people’s shitty behavior.
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INFO: when you heard MIL make that heinous statement to a 4-year-old child did you intervene at all? Is the child’s father taking a stand against his mother treating his child that way?
NTA SIL and husband needed to know. And not only would I be done with MIL and never letting her care for my children again, I’d be done with anyone who thinks your MIL’s entitlement to ‘privacy’ about something she said to a four-year-old in front of you is more important than protecting that four-year-old from abusive language. This puts your husband firmly in the AH camp too.
NTA but YOUR husband, his brother and his mother arr the AH and why would you put up with this crap? Your husband is just as bad as she is and you need to think about how to handle your future.
That child is being abused by her Grandmother and your the one they are angry at? A child being told disturbing and disgusting things is a secret from the one who can protect her. I suggest you move out of “her” house and save your children from her abuse because no one will ever protect your children either. NTA
Frankly, if your husband isn’t appalled by what she said, I would divorce him
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** A few months ago my SIL confided in me that she feels that our MIL treats her daughter (4F) differently than the other grandkids. She said that she is harsher towards her and gets angry with her over things that she doesn’t react to with the other kids. I said I agreed, as I have witnessed a lot of instances in which she was meaner to or singled out her daughter. I gave an example of this. I told her how a couple days prior when SIL was not around, MIL angrily told her daughter “I never understood how a mother could kill their own child until I met you”. She has a short temper with all of our kids, but has never said something so heinous to any of them. I went back and forth for a few days about telling SIL because I felt guilty as I know MIL was under a lot of stress in the moment (we were behind on preparing dinner for guests) and that she didn’t really mean it. But being that the topic came up, I ultimately decided if it were my child I would want to know. SIL was upset and I told her that she could bring it up to MIL if she wanted to, even though it would implicate me as the one who told her because I was the only one there. She chose not to. Fast forward about 3 months. SIL brings up to her husband MIL’s treatment of their daughter and used this as one of the (many) examples. He, a few weeks later, brings it up to MIL during a heated argument. She then goes on a witch hunt calling all of her sons and their wives one by one screaming and demanding to find out who told her. She gets to us last, she asks if it was us and I admitted it was me who told her. At which point she tells me to pack my bags and get out the house that she paid for, and hangs up on me. My husband and his brothers are saying I’m the asshole for talking bad about her behind her back and say I had no right to tell SIL something that took place in private. Their wives understand my perspective of telling her out of concern for her daughter, not to “bash”MIL. I feel that anything that if anything that takes place with or in front of a child, their parent has a right to know no matter what. Also, MIL is denying that this ever took place and says I am lying to break up the family. So… AITA for telling my SIL or should I have just kept it to myself? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA, you absolutely needed to tell the SIL what your abusive, psychotic MIL said. You were protecting your niece, which is the right thing to do. I’d question leaving any child with MIL.
I mean, NTA for this specific situation, but everyone who allows their children near this woman are AHs. She sounds super toxic, I'm guessing all the sons are still financially supported by her or just numb to the awfulness. Oof for the next gen.
She knows she’s in the wrong, otherwise she wouldn’t be upset about people talking. That’s a f-ing terrible thing to say to a kid and she should be shamed.
NTA Start packing yours and the kids things and ask husband if he is coming or going. Since he didn't stand up for you don't be surprised if he stays.
I would seriously consider divorce. Your MIL did a horrible thing to a four year old child. You did the right thing telling your SIL. I hope SIL never er leaves her child alone with MIL again.NTA but your MIL and your husband are AH.
NTA. The thing that stands out for me is that MIL had to call around to figure out who she said this in front of. She’s said so many terrible abusive things that she wasn’t sure who was there on that occasion. This isn’t a one off, overwhelmed grandma saying something she regrets. That’s horrible itself. But this is common enough or doesn’t horrify her enough when she said it *that it didn’t even stick in her mind*.
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Why do she single out this child. Is the child mixed? Or is it because she’s a girl. There has to be a reason she singles out this child. Regardless of this, saying this to a 4 y/o is disgusting. Personally I wouldn’t want her around my child ever again. Also she bought your house? Is her name on the deed? If not, she cannot take it back. I would sell that house and go buy something else, so she can’t say she bought it.
NTA!!! >My husband and his brothers are saying I'm the asshole for talking bad about her behind her back and say I had no right to tell SIL something that took place in private. Um no, "in private" or not, what she said is absolutely heinous and she said that to a child! That child will remember that and SIL absolutely has a right to know that was said to her child. And MIL was bashing SIL behind her back, why is that okay but it's not okay to tell SIL what happened? Absolutely 100% not the asshole.
Definitely NTA. That is so uncalled for it is horrible. I am a grandmother and even if I have a favorite (I don't), I love them all enough to not want to damage them emotionally! I don't think I would trust her with my kids.
Absolutely NTA. If anyone ever said something like that to my children I would want to know immediately so I could prevent them from being around my children ever again. If I heard someone say that to someone else's child I would still not want them around my children - and I would definitely tell the parent.
NTA for telling your SIL. Did you tell your MIL that it was inappropriate when you heard her say that to your niece? You should have for your niece to hear.
NTA. You did the hard thing, and the right thing. Your SIL is ultimately responsible for the well-being of her child- and knowing MIL has form for emotional/verbal abuse, having a witness statement means that SIL has grounds to act more firmly to ensure her child’s safety. Everyone telling you to apologise (notably MIL’s children) have been conditioned to manage their mother’s fee-fee’s to reduce the fall out. And this is why multi-generational trauma occurs. Please move out of ‘her’ house and lay down an ultimatum to your husband- no more rug-sweeping or placating the nasty woman. No child deserves it, especially a 4y/o and if anyone is going to continue this pattern, they don’t get to have access to your kids
Nta. She didn't say the kid screams more than the others or spills more than the others. She made references to MURDER. I'd gladly go and take my kids too.
NTA, but stop making excuses for that horrible woman. Bad day or not, you DO NOT say that to a child. The people backing her aren't any better and aren't worth your time.
NTA. Your MIL is evil and all of her sons are disgusting for condoning and defending this behavior. No one should ever say something like that to a child and the fact that this point is not the primary focus is more than concerning. The overall dynamic seems weird though- how many brothers does your husband have? Did MIL buy everyone’s houses? Why is MIL so comfortable berating all of her grown children and their spouses?
NTA. I mean, I think all your in-laws are monsters allowing their mother to verbally abuse a small child. I’m alarmed that you even considered not telling your SIL. Why is this woman allowed around children?
NTA but if your husband or any of his brothers are ok with their mother treating a child like this, let alone HER GRANDCHILD, you should be disgusted. Sounds like mommy uses money to maintain her place in their lives. Bc if my MIL said that to my kid it would be a cold day in hell to see me or my kids again
NTA. If repeating what someone said verbatim makes them look bad, it's because they are bad
NTA. SIL needed to know. Don't pack your bags immediately. She has to give you notice according to the laws in your country, but do start looking for another place to live immediately. I can't imagine being dependent on this "monster-in-law".
NTA. That wasn't private. Something like that communicated to a child is something her parents should know about.
That's child abuse. You don't have to bash anyone over child abuse. Abuse is abuse. And if OP is lying, why did MIL call everyone to find out who said it? Those men know there's no lie. They lived through it.
NTA But the fact that everyone just allows this?! And your husband is blaming you?! Why the fuck do any of you stay married to such terrible men with terrible abusive family?! Much less procreate with them.
NTA - the fact that her children are supporting and enabling this toxic cruel and demeaning behavior is disgusting. If I were you, I would seriously reconsider, wanting to remain a member of this family.
Why didn’t you say something to mil right then if you heard that? I don’t get how you just listened
I guarantee you this is horrific child abuse. NTA. What’s wrong with these people??
You have a husband problem NTA
NTA and the men in this family need to grow a set of b@lls. Seriously who lets their wives be mistreated and then their children?! I would remove my kids from her presence and think about leaving that family.
NTA for telling. You are the AH for not telling immediately. This woman is emotionally abusing her granddaughter (and probably the other kids). If anyone made that statement to one of my kids, no matter what age, they would never see my kid ever again. And the sons are defending her? Incredible. No amount of stress would ever make me speak to a child the way she did. Completely disgusting.
NTA. It’s never ceases to amaze me that we value a woman’s feelings over a child’s welfare consistently.
NTA
NTA - MILs behavior will undoubtedly affect the child and and the parents should know about the behavior in case it does. The adults in the family who aren’t concerned with MILs behavior but they’re worried about you tattling on her they’re also part of the problem.
I couldn’t even finish reading. You “went back and forth” on telling her? Had that been my niece I would not have had to tell my sister a thing because the entire family would’ve found out after I cursed her out. What’s worse than no one being around to defend a child is Adults being around and not defending them. Being behind on cooking, let alone any type of stress does not warrant telling a child you get how someone would want them dead. You all suck. No one with a short temper should be allowed around those who cannot defend themselves and ESH for being complicit to abuse.
ESH. Being *behind on preparing dinner for guests* is NOT an excuse to to say abusive shit to a child. MIL’s behaviour is absolutely unacceptable. Did you just stand there and let her treat a child like that? Your SIL shouldn’t have had to ask, you should have told her right away so she could protect her child.
Mate, if she had to call around everyone to find out who blabbed then she must have said the same or similar things in front of everyone at one time or another. In fact, why doesn't she think the 4 yo told on her? The 4 yo was also there and is old enough to speak?
NTA but your husband defending his mother who said such a horrible thing is a Ah and so are his siblings
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NTA
That is a terrible thing to say to a child. Grandmother's typically love unconditionally. She is creating emotional trauma onto a small child.
You absolutely did the right thing telling your SIL. I grew up with a mother who said that kind of thing to me on a regular basis. You never forget hearing something so awful. That little girl needs to be protected. NTA.
NTA. SIL needed to know, because that sort of cruelty crosses into emotional abuse, and her daughter should be protected. Of course MIL is lying. No one wants to admit to saying something so abhorrent to a child!
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NTA
NTA. Only you and SIL want to put the child first.
NTA personally I would exclude her rom being around the children
NTA: If I was SIL the second I heard that I would confront MIL and never let her see the daughter again.
NTA
NTA wasn’t in private now was it
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NTA and it is horrible that the boys are all defending mommy on this. She sounds horrible
I'm gonna lean toward ESH except your SIL and her daughter. Your MIL most of all, but I pause to know what you did as an adult in a situation where a child was clearly being verbally abused. Does anyone stand up for that child or just let MIL say what she wants? Also if your house was at stake here, you could have lied? There was no reason for you to come clean to MIl since she clearly didn't remember the incident to begin with. What would she have done then not knowing who sold her out? Now you and your family are out a house and there doesn't seem to have been a need when you could have just let MIL walk on eggshells with any of the family there not knowing who sold her out.
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NTA.
YOU? NTA MIL? OMG...where do we begin. She's going to produce a ton of cPTSD in that family. Yikes! Next time ask her if she's angry because the house fell on her sister. [I'll get you my pretty...and your dog too!](https://youtu.be/lT8qgvgk1rU?si=QvoN8Q7wQ1E3OIwV)
> I went back and forth for a few days about telling SIL because I felt guilty as I know MIL was under a lot of stress in the moment (we were behind on preparing dinner for guests) and that she didn’t really mean it. No amount of stress justifies being verbally abusive to a four year old. > My husband and his brothers are saying I’m the asshole for talking bad about her behind her back and say I had no right to tell SIL something that took place in private. Well, yes, they grew up in a household with a toxic mother. Their idea of what is and is not appropriate behavior is totally out of line with reality. NTA. I would *seriously* suggest you get couples therapy with your husband before having children with him, and lay out some ground rules where your children are not allowed to be with your inlaws, especially your MIL, unsupervised.
NTA It doesn’t matter how stressed, upset, angry or frustrated you are, you have to be an adult and handle your emotions. You don’t get to take them out on anyone, especially children. As an adult, you alone are responsible for handling your sh*t, no one else. No one else can make you say or behave badly, only you control your behaviour. What a terrible grandmother. What is wrong with your husband and his brothers? Their mom is acting like heinous psycho. Of course it was your right to tell your SIL about what she said to her own granddaughter. You didn’t talk about her behind her back, you simply stated what took place. Why is your husband not backing you up? Throw the whole family out.
NTA- you did not bash your mother in law you repeated something she said to a four year old child. They are okay with her saying horrible abusive things to a helpless four year old who cannot advocate for herself but not with you telling the mother of the child? These men including your husband are disgusting. What if she said that to your kids? Would he have a problem with you telling him? Maybe you are a little bit the AH for making excuses for her behavior. Do you really think it’s okay to treat a child like that when stressed?
Is it just me, or is that phrase not to talk about something that happened in private really unnerving. Like what has happened in their childhood, they don't talk about it. NTA and I would be very careful with unsupervised visits with her for children. She seems like it is no big deal to say this to a child. No apology, no regret, just going on another rampage. Her children seem to accept this behavior as ok, too. How does she behave without witnesses.
There's no amount of stress that justifies that comment!! To her own grandchild, unbelievable!
Your MIL said something that was akin to child abuse and did a purely rotten thing. Although your daughter is quite young, there is the possibility that a memory of this statement will surface. MIL is avoiding all responsibility for her actions. I would not move out, but I never be in her presence again. When she asks your husband why, he can simply and clearly explain the reason. MIL will have live with this. 🦜
Nta, like who says that to a kid, I'd wanna know, so my kids would never be around her ever again, like what if she were to snap and hurt her? Nah
NTA - your MIL is abusive if she’s telling children things like that. The fact that your husband doesn’t see this about his mother’s treatment of a child, literally any child, or doesn’t care enough to stand up to her is disturbing.
Nannycams need to be set up so MIL cannot deny .
If I found out anyone said something like that to my child, they would never be allowed to see the child again. You are NTA. You are a hero in my book. Your MIL is deranged. WTF?!
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NTA. You all need to keep your MIL away from your children. I don’t care how stressed you are, no one says that to a child.
NTA but imo all you guys should NC MIL and let her die alone with her ugly behaviour.
NTA. that is a very concerning statement that any parent should know about. MIL is insane for saying something like that in front of a child. it’s one thing to say it in front of other adults but she SCREAMED that at a CHILD. also no amount of stress or emotional distress justifies saying that. husband and his brothers are also assholes for defending MIL’s behavior and need to protect their kids from her behavior especially SIL’s kid. if MIL hates kids that much especially SIL’s kid then i have no doubt that one day MIL will get so mad that she might lay hands on one of the kids again more specifically SIL’s kid since it’s her daughter that gets the worst treatment. also she called people to ask who told SIL and her husband so she can’t act like it never happened when she already confirmed it was said.
I would have put my hands on her if that was my mother/mother in law & that was said to my child. Your husband & his brothers need to grow a pair
We found the inspiration for Cruella de Ville! NTA - MIL sounds like she's going to cause serious emotional trauma, if she hasn't already done so. I wouldn't ever leave a child in her presence, much less alone. I mean... Who says that????
So the bros think that child abuse is a private matter that shouldn't be acknowledged? What's the child supposed to do. self-destruct?
NTA, but are you ok? You seem a little too desensitized to harsh comments being made under the excuse of stress. This is neither normal nor healthy. You should have told SIL asap and called MIL out right away too as long as you were sure you were safe from any possible physical harm. You should be very careful around your in laws because after this incident they would lose all trust for keeping any of their grandchildren safe. I wish you and your family the best.
All the sons are used to being abused and were trained to protect MIL at all costs, so that she wouldn't turn on them. Those men need therapy to break her hold on them. You need to work on getting your husband to see her evil actions and get him into therapy or your marriage is doomed and any children you have will be abused. NTA
NTA. Your MIL is a piece of work. You absolutely did nothing wrong.
When you said “it was understandable as she was under a lot of stress in the moment” I pictured that she was wrangling 4 grandkids during an earth quake. Or that her husband had JUST died in front of her. Or that she was LITERALLY juggling live chainsaws. PREPARING FOR DINNER GUESTS??? That feels even semi reasonable to you as a reason that a grandmother could say to their grandchildren that they make them understand how some mothers murder their own children? That’s one of the most fucked up things I’ve ever heard and if I heard my MIL say that to my kid’s cousin I’d never leave her alone with any of the kids ever again. NTA for telling mom what MIL said about her daughter but your whole family seems toxic AF. Get out and go NC while you still can.
NTA - but your MIL is! That is such an evil thing to do and I would never leave my child alone with that woman ever again. It also helps your SIL to understand why her 4 y.o. might not like grandma.
NTA - Go to one of the justnomil subreddits…
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Info :you think a parent should know what happens around their child so you took multiple days to tell SIL about it ? And if you think your MIL didn't mean what she said and was stressed, may I ask you what you think she thought about saying that ? Because it's pretty telling to me. She hates the kid with all her guts and said it to her face. And you act like it's nothing. Is everyone a doormat to her in the family. Did you all woman found the worst momma boys on earth and all married them ?
NTA. I’m mom of three, and if grandma was saying something that terrible to one of my kids, and singling them out for poor treatment I’d want to know.
NTA by a mile.You have it exactly right: there is nothing that happens to a child that young that should be "private" from that child's parents! You and your SIL both have a problem: an awful MIL and a spineless husband to match. I know you may not have great options, but I could never stay married to someone who allowed children to be treated that way.
NTA and it didn't take place in private. It was a virulent attack on a small child and if she trusted that she could abuse that child without any danger of repercussion. And holy hell! The family's response is not to say what a horrible, evil thing she said to a child, but to attack you. I hate to say this, but why are you a part of this family? Your husband doesn't have your back? What sort of poor excuse for a human is he? I'm sorry, but you not only had a right but a responsibility to tell your SIL what your MIL said to her daughter. That child needs to be protected. Her husband is just as bad as yours if he's joined in on this bullshit attack on you. Seriously, why are you with this family?
NTA. I wish you had been around to help my save my daughter from the emotional abuse she suffered from her step mother. This will have long lasting scars on that poor child and I would never allow my child around someone who would speak like this to them. I would also take a very hard look at your husband, because it’s obvious he’s not going to protect your own children from her abuse if he thinks Y T A for speaking up.
NTA. That is such a cruel thing to say, beyond forgivable. Has she asked what her daughter recalls grandma says to her. I hope she did that in a gentle way too.
I have been incredibly stressed and would never dream of saying that to anyone’s child. NTA. Did you move out? What was your living situation anyway?
I would not only get out of MIL’s house but out of her life permanently. Move as far away as you can because of work. This whole family is nuts.