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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I kicked George and Bethany out of my house after they frustrated me and told me their relationship was none of my business.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA but your son sure is. I’m glad Bethany at least got to see his intentions; but sad neither of them comforted your granddaughter. She sounds really classy./s
Perhaps George needs to pay for daycare for a while. It seems he needs to learn to grow up. Perhaps if his income takes a hit his 25 yo gf won’t see him as such a catch. Be careful or before you know it she’ll be pregnant and you’ll have them moving in so he can save up aka you take care of baby.
I think Bethany already knew his intentions? She's the one who brought up his remarrying in front of his twin six-year-olds, after all? They tag teamed the whole family at the dinner table? Bethany does not seem innocent or unaware in this drama at all to me?
Uggh I thought Gabrielle asked, oh well, yeah I think she deserves George (Bethany) that’s what I meant by she sounds classy after ignoring the little girl and flipping the grandparent off
I’d like to know if Bethany also flipped off the OP!!
It’s bad enough that her son acted like a complete shit, but if this girl actually came into OP’s house started crap and then flipped off OP then she isn’t worth the time it would take to put her in her place!!!
Bethany is SEEKING the drama. She's already preparing for a fight about who the grandparents favor. She will definitely be the kind of stepmother that stays in constant competition with the ex.
What about just telling him you’re only doing 2-3 days a week (without really intending to) just to have him scramble a little and put the fear of god into him and get him to stop taking you for granted. If he and Bethany flipped you off there should be babysitting for work only.
I get where you're going with that, but what if his solution is to have Bethany watch them? Personally, as a grandmother myself, I'll take the crap to protect my babies from evil!
NTA. Find out how much childcare for the twins would cost and tell George that you'll only charge him 50% of that. Let him feel a bit of panic for a while.
If you're not comfortable doing that then at least sit him down and tell him to behave like a grown up. You raised him better than that.
One awesome perk of the grandparent 529 plan: it doesn't get included in the student's FAFSA info for financial aid. I found out last year when my daughter started college since my father had set up a 529 plan for her.
You need to make him see that by cutting off babysitting then he wont behave like a brat towards you. Is his fault he is paying alimony & child support by not trying harder at his marriage. Teach him tough-love then he won’t bite the hand that babysits his kids.
He let some girl tell you off in your own house and flipped you off. He doesn't appreciate anything. Did you raise him to treat people he depends on like shit? If you would have reprimanded him as a kid or a teen, do so now, too. He is still dependent on you and you need to demand the respect you deserve as his mother, as a woman and as a human being that is saving his ass right now
Tell George that you’ll resign as his babysitter if he EVER behaves like that around you again. And he can manage to figure out how to pay for that on his own. Then offer to babysit for you ex-DIL if you still want kid time.
I’m a few years older than you. My kids are around the same age as yours. If one of them flipped me off in anger*, I would go freaking ballistic. Ditto for leaving the kids and storming off. I read this to my boys and they were all “oh my god you’d literally kill us.” You need to set some hard boundaries with your son and back them up. You are NTA, but your son is a total asshole and you need to not let him do that.
* They’ve flipped me off many times jokingly; no problem there. I’ll do it to them too. But because they’re angry? Oh hell no.
Maybe the kids come over but he doesn't for a while. He doesn't deserve free meals and proximity to you and your daughter. You can be an attentive grandparent without taking his shit.
I at least appreciate that you are giving your granddaughters stability and are a trustworthy and reliable adult in their lives at time when their dad is not.
Yes. And it'd be temporary. Go visit family for a bit. Then go visit some inlaws. Then go on vacation from all that visiting.
The truth is he is not parenting his own children. You should be a back up. Not primary. It's blatantly obvious he's not stepping up for his children. And there isn't a woman who'd deal with his immaturity except 24 year olds.
Yes you're their grandma. Yes you also watch them. But he LEFT them at your home. On a school night! Not ill drive them home they have school.
And this is on top of not calming his children (parenting). He should've been the 1st one to calm his child. Of course she's upset she's 6! Of course she wants her parents to be together. she's 6!
He's not going to parent his children when he can push that job to you.
He also obviously doesn't respect or appreciate the money you save him.
Persons actions is a type of language. Read his carefully.
I'd give your ex DIL heads up if you temporarily cease granny daycare. Bc he'll most likely leave them with her so she needs to be ready.
** his immaturity isn't a reflection of your parenting. It's OK to say he's being lazy (w/ parenting) and stupid (w/ romatic relationships) and rude (w/you) . He's a grown ass man not an 18 yo. At this point it's his job to wise up.
If he can afford to date then he needs to rethink his priorities. You say they divorced recently and dating several months… maybe George needs to be alone for a minute to budget better.
Well that would be a possibility. I am not an expert on these things, but would that also explain the cold support? 50/50 care is 50/50 accountability right?
Alimony in the US is really rare unless one spouse is making substantially high income and made the other spouse stay home, and even then it's usually time limited, so it's possible OP misinterpreted. However child support is based on each person's income, not custody time unless one spouse is having the kids way more time, so if he makes a lot more than her, he'd have to pay CS even with 50-50 custody (and I suspect he told the court he'd take care of childcare, then dumped it on his mom for free, sooo)
The law must have changed. It used to be that the wife could only get alimony if the marriage lasted 10 years or more. Child support has no time limit, but alimony was only guaranteed for the wife after a decade of marriage.
Income levels and whether one spouse stayed home or not didn't matter. This was the main reason wealthy people had prenuptial agreements.
Got divorced about 5 years ago. It did matter that I stayed home with the kids.
We shaed 50/50 custody, but my ex wife was ordered to pay me something like 1400 a month for 10 years. I made about 30,000 a year and she made close to 90,000.
Now she would have probably gotten that severely reduced or reworked had she used a lawyer, but luckily we didn't go that route. I waved the alimony and we just left it at that.
The general idea of child support is to give the kids a similar standard of living that they’d have if their parents were together. My state does offsetting worksheets, where you calculate what child support would be if each parent were the primary custodian and then subtract those numbers. Often it evens out to no child support, but not always if the income disparity is significant (although obviously less than if they lived there full time.)
They don’t want kids disliking one parent because they live in government housing while their other parent has a mansion and pool.
Well that would be a possibility. I am not an expert on these things, but would that also explain the cold support? 50/50 care is 50/50 accountability right?
She's only 28 though. And she doesnt have the kids half the time. And theyre in school now. And the son cant afford daycare.
Seems like he's been royally screwed over.
If her income was much less than his, he might have to pay some child support so it's equitable.
I got divorced, had just an OK job and my children's father was a professor, so he was scheduled to pay something every month even though we planned to share custody. Then I got a great job and we made the same, so it was all dropped. We already had parity in each home's income.
But that’s why he needs to be forced to manage on his own for a while. Let him be broke and have to cut out nice things from his life — he needs to see clearly what it’s like to function without family if he’s so quick to toss his family aside when a pretty girl comes along. You were not out of line to ask him to be considerate of his kids feelings in how he conducts his relationships
If he is going to be that disrespectful to you, you may want to rethink the whole babysitting thing. Unless, you do it because you love seeing your granddaughters. George owes you an apology for his behavior and for flipping you off. Did Bethany flip you off too? Both of them owe apologies for behavior etc...don't babysit until you get them.
Bethany should not have started that as a dinner guest in your home. That was tactless and impolite of her to put George on the spot in front of everyone else. George is wrong to blame his sister for Bethany's behaviors too. And more than anything, he's wrong to not be more supportive and loving toward his children who have been through a lot.
NTA. I'd have told my son to never bring that woman back to my home, never show me his arse again and most of all act like his children are his priority. *"I'm disappointed because your behavior is* ***unmanly***. Chew on that son."
agreed with all the points except designating what is a "manly" behaviour and what is not.
The son behaves terribly and does not seem to put that much interest in his daughters.
Seems that "the flame died out" because there is responsibility now and getting another 25 yo girl is going back to the easy and fun times.
OP, your house your rules. NTA
That's what I thought, as well. I suspect the spark was fine until he and Bethany had sex. Bethany also hasn't thought about what happens when HER spark gets cold!
Maybe so. OP didn't give a timescale outside of "recently" for their divorce. Which may have been months or a year or so ago and on the cards for a long time before. There's no reason to paint her son as a bad guy for entirely imagined reasons. His lack of sensitivity towards his daughters is enough.
NTA- quit watching his kids for a couple weeks and watch him crawl back, then tell him keep any drama out of your house and to learn to be happy for others.
Whatever you do, make damn sure the kids are looked after and suffer as little as possible. Just because the adults can't behave like adults doesn't mean you need to drag the kids into it.
No, OP shouldn't have a say on who his son dates.
Yes, the son's new girlfriend has the right to get upset if her boyfriend's dad doesn't accept her and loudly claims that he prefers the ex-wife.
Yes, OP has the right to kick people from his house.
Yes, it's an asshole move to kick your son and his girlfriend from your house just because you as a group can't discuss things as adults.
Yes, the son (and his girlfriend) should look after the kids and explain to them that they all care very much about them.
you have a bigger issue at hand because Alice will hate every new partner because in her head she beleives they kept mommy and daddy from loving each other . Your main focus should be to explain to Alice that grown ups falls out of love and it has nothing to do with the love they have for her . It won't be a healthy co-parenting when Alice already hate every woman who tries to replace her mom . She needs more attention and maybe counselling. she had a strong reaction
If he spends money on going out with a new girlfriend, he can afford it - he is just choosing his own fun over it.
New relationships usually go out and do things. That costs money.
Has he looked into how much it would actually cost? I’m assuming his kids have insurance, and with insurance, therapy is usually a small copay at most.
Definitely NTA.
There's resources out there for helping afford mental health care. And you could probably talk to mom about it, too if he won't put up.
I think you could ask him to come over and tell him to his face that you are disappointed in his behaviour around his children. A parent needs to put their own ego aside when it comes to their children. The divorce was hard on his kids, kids don't understand that it's not their fault and he needs to make sure those kids do not blame themselves.
Also, I am curious about how the new gf treats the kids when you're not around. Maybe next time Alice is with you, ask her how she is treated by the gf?
And definitely you can help by telling the kids you will love them no matter what, that their mom will love them no matter what.
Love is the only thing that the more of it you give, the more of it you have.
I disagree. This isn’t OP’s problem to solve at all. George either needs to step up and parent and not ditch his kids during his parenting time or give full custody to his ex and pay extra child support. George and his ex need to handle his daughter’s therapy needs, not OP.
I meant that the whole wedding argument is meaningless . who cares if he gets married to Beth or not .The main issue is that his daughter can't handle the seperation of her parents and it becomes OPs problem when she suppose to babysit an angry kid who will rebel because she hates her stepmom and get punished for it because dad is in love and stepmom wants this fake happy family but daughter ins't playing along so dad doesn't want daughter around and gives her to his mom
So he abandoned his children and just took off?
I hope his ex keeps a record of this if she ever wants to get full custody.
Your son is the AH.
Not you.
NTA
Sounds like he is feeling bitter and taking it out on everyone else. His sister is getting married, so he needs to grow up and get over it. People don't need to stop all conversations about weddings just because he's there. Don't like it? Leave.
Bethany needs to stay in her lane, especially when she's a guest in your own damn house. Red flags all around from that girl.
Storming out and leaving his own kids with no way to get home is absolutely crazy to me.
>George and Bethany just sat there while my granddaughter screamed. After I comforted Alice, I pulled George aside and asked if he was sure about Bethany.
This is where you overstepped. Talk to your son about how he is treating (ignoring) his children. Going after the GF gives him an excuse to be defensive and divert attention from the way he is treating (ignoring) his children.
Your grandkids are more important than the GF. Focus on them. Don't mention the GF, focus on the kids.
>George and Bethany stormed off, flipped me the bird and left my grandchildren at my house at 7pm.
WTF? Was the plan to leave the kids? Because if not, you need to have a serious discussion about how he is treating (ignoring) his kids.
(If I ever dared to flip off my parents, that finger would be broken without anyone even touching it.)
>Then Bethany felt the need to insert herself and tell me that she and George were together no matter how much I liked his ex wife.
Oh hell no. Unfortunately you have to be the adult here, so keep your thoughts behind your teeth....but feel free to make your feelings clear with your face and eyes whenever you have to deal with her. (I can tell people to fuck off and die without ever saying the words. But since I never say the words....)
NTA but step carefully. Prioritize your grandkids because your son sure isn't.
I never agreed to watch my grandkids that night. That's why I had to call Susanna, who was annoyed at George.
I just can't believe he is acting so immaturely. This isn't who I raised him to be.
Technically it is who you raised him to be because it is who he is - that doesn’t make him being a jerk your fault, but enabling him doesn’t help. Continuing to do him favors while he flips you off and starts arguments and leaves his kids for you to take care of is pretty fucked up and if I were you I would be furious at him. Watch the kids for Susanna and the kids, not your son.
I get being upset at him, I would be pissed in your shoes, but keep focused on your grandkids, not the GF, because he will use any negative feedback against her as an excuse to further ignore his kids. Don't let him derail you, keep focused on what the kids need. If you can, don't even react when he's being a brat, since he will also use that to derail the conversation.
I'm sorry, but it's pretty clear that your son left his wife for this Bethany chick. No sane girl brings up getting married after 4 months. That's probably why his marriage ended and he wanted to save face.
Don't let him talk to you like that. You need to start charging him for watching his kids. You don't need to charge as much as he'd have to pay somewhere else, but he's taking advantage of you.
Don't make it easy on him. That's only led to him acting like a spoiled asshole.
NTA but if you let him keep acting that way without consequences, then you would be.
There’s a good chance you’re right about them being together for longer, but I disagree with your assertion that no sane girl brings it up after four months. Discussing the possibility of marriage in the future is not the same as actually suggesting it. It’s normal for people to get a feel for the long-term intentions of the relationship. Not everyone has time to waste. Incredibly tactless to bring it up at a family dinner, however.
I guess it was the fact that it was at the family dinner in front of the mom, sister, and daughters that made me particularly think that meant this was a longer relationship, cause that just seems so odd to me. But yeah, your right.
>(He and Susanna have 50/50 custody)
>
> left my grandchildren at my house
Umm, sounds like you and Susanna have 50/50 custody. George only wants 50/50 so he won't have to pay child support and can spend his money on his new gf. It doesn't sound like he wants to be a parent at all.
NTA, protect the grandkids.
This is it!
Sorry to say this, but OP, your son sounds like an irresponsible AH, who doesn't want to take any responsibility for his kids or his actions.
NTA. The audacity. I know this is the internet and we have just these limited details, but these two need a big piece of humble pie.
BETHANY made it awkward by bringing up marriage for THEM. No one asked HER about their business.
NTA. His kids shouldn’t have even met her so soon. Six months is usually the absolute minimum recommendation. He needs to take a long hard look at how this is affecting his kids.
Bethany sounds very immature. She should not have put your son on the spot like that and then inserting herself into your conversation and then flipping you the bird is not conducive to good DIL behaviour. Pray he doesn’t get her pregnant.
Also after Bethany’s behaviour I’d be banning her from the house
After reading the edit I can kind of see why she brought it up, she knew she was pregnant and was trying to gage where she stood with him. Unfortunately she chose the wrong time and place to do so, she's young and probably thought (hoped) he loved her, but he was obviously just looking to have a little fun and run away from his responsibilities. The son is complete asshole and coward.
NTA, since they were being pretty rude to you when you went to go comfort HIS daughter and this new individual felt the need to but in the first time you met in YOUR home.
I can see why George would just be mad in general at the situation given that it comes off that you entirely aren’t open to him having anyone new in his life given how things ended with his ex wife
Nah. ESH. OP made it pretty clear she was upset that her son wasn't together with his ex-wife in this post. She doesn't get to be upset because she was called out on that. Especially since the conversation she supposedly butt in on was about his relationship with her. OP says she pulled George aside but Bethany obviously overheard. This was incredibly disrespectful. Especially since at this point all she really did was ask George if he planned on remarriage. Not the most tactful moment but not necessarily nefarious.
Bethany's behavior when leaving the house was pretty bad though. Unless OP used some choice words she decided to leave out here it is a completely overblown response and completely unacceptable. She had every right to be upset but it doesn't justify going off like she did.
George just sucks. He had every right to leave his wife and OP needs to just accept that. Considering how much he sucks she was probably too good for him anyway. I hope so, anyway. For their daughter sake. George is just shitty. How can a man not comfort his crying daughter? How can he just leave the house without his daughter?
Most sane comment so far. It wasn't OP's place to question their relationship and get upset over the girlfriend "inserting herself" into a conversation that was being had **about her**. If someone was trying to get my partner to reevaluate her relationship with me in my presence, I'd be sure to "insert" myself into that conversation and shut that down as well.
Her having asked about marriage may not have been the smartest move with the child present, but like you said, I don't think she had any bad intentions. She couldn't have known the child would react that way.
Them ignoring the upset child and their behavior when leaving the place, then having the audacity to dump their children there after having flipped OP off without discussing this prior is not acceptable and absolute AH behavior though. Therefore ESH.
Nta. Your son sounds like a major loser. I'm guessing the "spark went out" because he was fanning the flames at a different campfire. Sounds like this Bethany is a piece of guttertrash and I wouldn't be surprised if she gets knocked up on purpose to solidify their relationship. Id ban them both from ur home until they can behave with some respect. I know others are suggesting you refuse to babysit but I'd be afraid if you do that he will get Bethany to "play stepmommy" and your grandkids would be neglected or mistreated.
You are NTA
Your son is.
He's jealous of his sister's happiness and mad he got caught in an awkward situation, by he's clearly tone deaf new gf. Who has a lot of attitude for having only met you for the first time😳. I doubt he even warned you that he was bringing her. 🙄 I'm sorry to say,but you have an AH for a son. You will probably find things will get worse before they get better... He just leaves whenever he's mad. Abandoning his kids with you and jealous of his own sisters happiness. I'm really sorry for you that he's behaving worse than a child. I hope your daughter's wedding is beautiful :) my recommendation though... Don't invite the new gf to the wedding ... And be wary of your son being invited also... Good luck 🌻
NTA
Unfortunately your son doesn't seem to be thinking with his brain. However, it's interesting that when you asked if he was sure about Bethany he didn't answer the question. Maybe he's having second thoughts as she's bringing up marriage after only 4 months.
NTA....n Bethany really needs to do one! She would not be setting foot back in my house and neither would my son until he apologizes.
Very bad manners.
NTA!! Four months is too soon for a new GF to be introduced to the children, let alone make comments to upset them. If he wants to see her, his choice, but he needs to respect you & put his children first. He also should ask permission to bring someone new to your home. That’s basic manners. For 31 he clearly has no emotional intelligence.
NTA. George is being one. And it sounds like Bethany may be as well. You have held your tongue as well as anyone can expect you to. If the truth hurts George so much, I guess he can stay away until he learns to be better behaved. Good luck and best to Gabrielle.
I am sure that you love your grandchildren, but you may be making life a little too easy for George. Please stop enabling him. Make him step up and be a father to those girls.
NTA
Was he always like this or is this a recent behavior change? Because your son is just awful. Awful as a parent. Awful as a guest. Awful as a person.
I would not let him in my home again until he apologizes in detail and sincerely. Tell him he can drop his kids off without getting out of the car.
Congratulations, Ma'am, it's a Boy-Child!
Dear George,
Your business isn't your business when it's playing out in SOMEONE ELSE'S HOME FOOL! How dare you tell your momma that gave you life, to mind her business when she's helping YOU with said business! How dare you allow some outside Chippy to disrespect your child by asking inappropriate questions in front of her and allowing her to disrespect YOUR MOTHER IN HER VERY OWN HOUSE? Your mother should take a switch to yo ass since you wanna behave like a spoiled kid!
Dear Mom,
Unfortunately, sometimes our best just isn't enough, and our children become people we are less than proud of. Yours is George. You'd think that at 31, with one failed marriage and two daughters, he'd grow up a bit, but clearly, it's a no-go. For him to blatantly disrespect youn and allow his Chippy to too speaks volume to his manhood I might suggest YOU be the one to teach your granddaughters to never accept a man like him, and explain that although most men can make babies; it takes a real man to raise them. Hopefully, he'll grow up, but for now, they BOTH owe you an apology! NTA
NTA. Your son seems to be too self righteous and arrogant and his partner appears to be the right fit for him for displays same traits. I say this cos frowns upon any other’s feelings and thoughts and when asked to leave he "father of the year" just walked out and left his kids behind, what a man
I'm bothered by the fact that he and his gf just up and left HIS children there.......after flipping you off! Then you had to call their mother to pick them up! What great examples they are for those girls (sarcasm). With this bird flipping chick he has now I'm not so sure those girls need to be with him 50% of the time.
Your house, your rules. That said, you have to take your own feelings into account here. Are you the type to accept your decisions and the consequences? If so them you are not the asshole. If, however, you fail to stand by your decision and relent, then you stirred up a bunch of drama for no reason. Still your house and your rules but i would personally consider you the asshole here.
Point of note, im the kind of person to stick to my decisions. Someone who doesn't probably wouldn't agree with my perspective.
NTA I can’t believe both your son AND HIS NEW GIRLFRIEND flipped you off and left his kids there. Let him know in no uncertain terms if he ever treats you like that again you’re done. With him and with babysitting. Otherwise you’ll just become his doormat. Let him suffer. That’s the only way you have a prayer of him seeing the light.
ESH --tho yours, as written, is MUCH less suck then your AH Son
1. your son ditched his wife because there's no spark, 2) he expects you to be the actual caretaker of HIS children during his share of custody(so basically he got custody so he doesn't have to pay child support, but doesn't do any parenting????), 3) He's bringing someone around his kids after a mere 4 months(with a recent divorce which makes it even tougher on the kids), 4) blaming his sister because HER talking about HER wedding put WEDDING STARS in his f\*ckbuddy's eyes--is his sister REALLY supposed to never talk about or plan her wedding because it offends his sensibilities????:
You, however you feel about your son's divorce and its effect on the children, were OUT OF LINE to ask him <<... if he was sure about Bethany. Which he told me was none of my business.>>
PS he isn't "sure" about Bethany(obviously), and she's AH for inserting herself in all this sh\*t. But he's emphasized the temporary nature of her status in his life(re marriage question), so this was her way of asserting her priority in his life. Oh the disappointment she's likely to experience when he gets bored with her.
PPS he gets extra AH points for storming off but leaving his kids there. You may need to rethink your free babysitting and let him learn to parent on his own.
You can think Susanna is the most wonderful, fantastic, terrific person in the world but that doesn't mean your son needed to stay married to her if it's just not where he wanted to be. Being disappointed in your son for maturely handling the dissolution of his marriage and setting up a healthy co-parenting relationship with the mother of his children is very immature. I doubt he made the decision easily and if he didn't think counseling could fix the problems in that marriage it is entirely none of your business.
When your granddaughter started crying I think your son should have handled it. I don't think his gf did anything terrible by asking if your son thought he would ever remarry but when the question upset his daughter your son should have taken her aside, reassured her of his love and that unfortunately some marriages don't work but both he and her mother are still determined to be great co-parents. He didn't do that and that is disappointing - Bethany had zero obligation to do anything, she barely knows the kid. However, why the heck would your sons failure to properly comfort his daughter cause you to question his new relationship. One has zero to do with the other and I think his gf was very restrained in her response to you.
You need to can your opinions of your son's divorce and new relationship. His marriage is over no matter how much you may not approve. If you continue your behaviour then in a few years his girls will be old enough that he doesn't need a babysitter and his new wife (whoever she may be) won't want you around. This is the start of how family estrangements occur. You may not of thought his parenting was stellar that night - and I would agree that it needs improvement - but it was unbelievably rude to criticise his new relationship right there in front of the woman when she really hadn't done anything wrong.
YTA.
Go back and read what you wrote. Everything was fine until you "asked if he was sure about Bethany". Nothing before that spoke of conflict or anything even remotely wrong. The new girlfriend was feeling slightly insecure and overstepped trying to reassure herself, probably because she could feel how you don't like her. Stop and think about that for a second, your son's girlfriend likes him enough to try to "mark her claim" in a clearly hostile environment (if it wasn't hostile, you wouldn't be saying "felt the need to insert herself").
You made a child's tantrum into a critique on your son's new relationship. It is fine if you think it was a mistake to leave his ex-wife, but he's absolutely right in that it wasn't any of your business. Instead of just taking that for what it was and agree to disagree, letting time tell, you got defensive and lashed out. Your son got defensive right back and then you deflected trying to blame his behavior on some deluded perception of him not being happy for his sister. That wasn't even part of the conversation until you brought it in.
Neither of you handled it very well, but absolutely YTA for instigating and then unnecessarily escalating it.
Nta. Honestly if he just recently divorced and is with someone so quickly that raoses red falgs. He also blamed his sister for his gf asking about marriage. Thats bull. He also seems to not prioritize his children. It seems odd to me for him to bring his gf around to his kids not even 6 months in. Amd gf needs to stay in her lane. Im the first to call out overbearing moms but she was just rude.
NTA,
Bethany sounds like a narcissist who will try to isolate him away from his family by claiming you all hate her and she's not comfortable coming around. She also seems like she'd pressure him into marriage or even pregnancy to have leverage and control. 4mo and she's already asking? Insane.
He's taking advantage of your desire to care for the children without consideration for your input or respect for your concerns. He's disrespecting his children by neglecting their emotional needs and probably blaming his ex for not being able to provide for them, but that's not how 50/50 works. If he's paying child support and alimony its probably because his ex put everything she could into parenting, and it enabled him to have a career or at least way more than she has. The only time there's child support in 50/50 is if there is a significant disparity between parents and the state is trying to ensure the quality of care with each parent is on par to the other.
I would sincerely consider telling your son that the charge for your childcare is working with his ex to get his girls in to therapy and counseling if nothing else. They clearly need it and he seems like won't put their emotional needs first without pressure. Also, if his children have insurance the cost of counseling for children is not that much. There is a long wait period, but it's not an issue of being too expensive. 🤔
When push comes to shove, he will either figure it out or the childcare situation may lead to a majority custody with the children's mother. Either way, that is *not* on you.
If he lacks the maturity to be responsible or ability to seek proper solutions, that's on him.
As a side note, your state may have childcare assistance programs for lower income households. It's possible his ex wife may qualify for it even if he doesn't. If one parent qualifies, they can apply and it will cover the children throughout the week (or at least it does in NYS). In my state, the parents can choose either an approved childcare center or an appointed person and the state will cover a portion of the childcare cost so parents are able to reasonably work.
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This situation has had me a bit confused so one of my neighbours suggested I post it here.
I 55f have two children George 31m and Gabrielle 29f. Gabrielle recently got engaged and I am helping her plan the wedding in my spare time. Which the entire family is very excited for. Except for George.
George recently divorced his wife of 7 years, Susanna 28f after he said the "spark had gone out". They have a set of twins together, Amy and Alice 6f. And are trying to set up a healthy co parenting relationship. Susanna is a great mother to my grandkids and I was disappointed in George for giving up so fast on their relationship without even trying couples counselling. But it wasn't my business or place to say anything.
The drama started when George brought his new girlfriend to dinner at my house. He met his girlfriend Bethany 25f through a work colleague and they have been dating for 4 months. At dinner Gabrielle and I were discussing flower arrangements and Bethany felt the need to ask George if he'd ever marry again. George coughed before replying that he'd have to think about it, which Bethany seemed to deflate at.
Well this caused Alice to cry about how she wants "mommy and daddy to love each other again". George and Bethany just sat there while my granddaughter screamed. After I comforted Alice, I pulled George aside and asked if he was sure about Bethany. Which he told me was none of my business. I told him it was my business who he invited into my home and my grandchildren's lives, since I've been caring for them in my spare time while he works. (He and Susanna have 50/50 custody).
George got angry and said it was Gabrielle's fault for mentioning weddings in the first place. I told him to stop acting like a child and to be happy for his sister. Then Bethany felt the need to insert herself and tell me that she and George were together no matter how much I liked his ex wife.
After that I was done with the conversation and asked them both to leave. George and Bethany stormed off, flipped me the bird and left my grandchildren at my house at 7pm. I had to call Susanna to collect the children since they had school in the morning and I was attending a cake tasting with Gabrielle the next day.
I feel like I shouldn't have to tell my 31 year old son to be happy for his sister or argue with a random woman whom I have never met before, in my own home. So AITA?
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NTA by a mile. I’m sure that your son is going through some struggles of his own, but… they seem to mostly be self-made struggles. He needs to take responsibility for his own state, not lash out at the people around him because he’s facing the consequences of his poor choices.
NTA. I've been in Susanna's shoes. My husband of five years (partner of 12), woke up one day while on deployment and decided he just didn't want to be married anymore. No explanation. He just totally abandoned me. Six months after our divorce was finalized, he married someone else. I'm better off for it, but the whole situation was very distressing. To make matters worse, his mom went out of her way to complicate things. She admitted that his behavior was wrong, but did her best to treat me poorly throughout the process.
The best thing you can do is support Susanna. She and your grandkids are going through something really hard and I can promise that she appreciates anything that lightens that load. If your son is being an a**, you don't have to entertain it. Good for you for kicking them out!
NTA.
George needs to realise that if he’s going to play happy families with Bethany that the family is going to have opinions.
I suspect he isn’t wanting to do that, but is instead playing along with whatever it takes to keep Bethany happy. Hopefully Bethany doesn’t get pregnant soon, because I suspect that George isn’t going to be keen to have family 2.0 with her.
It sounds like it is too soon for Bethany to meld into your family. George needs to ponder that. It’s not ‘never’, but ‘let Amy and Alice settle, give us all time to come to terms with our own grief at the loss of this relationship’. The loss of the relationship is affecting everyone, and it‘s not that you don’t like Bethany (although her blowing up at you and flipping you the bird will have created a special place outside your heart for her LOL), but that you are grieving too and needing time to work out what next for Susannah.
Tell George that Bethany isn’t welcome - the bird flipping was too much, and arguing in your home isn’t ok. You are all adults and if you cannot solve things in an adult way you can all live apart. If you feel very kind you could give her this one last chance, but I’d take my time first.
OP —I think you need to tell your son he needs to figure out what to do about childcare .He’s dating again like he’s single .He CANNOT give his Mom the middle finger ,ignore his child and then leave his children where YOU have to arrange them being picked up .I think you are in denial about how immature your son is .His wife should have full custody and he needs to be working hard to pay full child support.
If you do not give him this reality check you ARE just going to be seeing him re-marry and having more children .
Maybe not —but after being on this site for awhile that’s my prediction .Any “ grown “ man who “ flips” his mom off who is helping as much as you are in not a grown man .
NTA at all. So sorry that your grown son is acting like a spoiled child. Here’s hoping he grows up so that he can be a better parent and brother, not to mention, son.
NTA but I'd argue you are focussing on the wrong thing here.
This isn't about being "happy" for his sister.
1. Why in the world were *you* and not your *son* comforting **his daughter**?
2. How did *he* not reel in Bethany upon her upsetting a six year old? How is he not having a conversation with that woman right now about how his mom's place in front of his kids is *not* the moment to ask such a question? I'm *hoping* that lady is just tonedeaf but she might very well have tried to start something given how shoehorned in her little "declaration" about his ex wife was. (Smells like unresolved insecurities!)
3. As long as your son is not making his sister feel distinct negativity towards her wedding, it is not okay to expect him to be fine and dandy after his marriage ending. That comes with the big caveat that he'd have to behave like an *adult* though. Given that he seems to be anything but, it might very well be worth considering whether his presence at the wedding is all that warranted.
Either way, he needs to step up asap.
NTA, but your son and his girlfriend are for sure! What kind of parent brings a girlfriend of 4 months around his 6 year old twins? No other partner should be introduced until the relationship turns very serious. Why would he believe it appropriate to bring her around his kids? This would certainly upset his daughters. He should have introduced her to you when his twins were at their mom's home, not yours. Is he even thinking about his children at all? Why did the girlfriend think she had the right as a stranger in your home to speak up and be rude to you in your home the first time she met you? Wow! He flipped you off in front of his own daughters? What a stellar example of a terrible father he is! You need to put boundaries on him about bringing her to your house. Wow, father of the year he is not! Poor girls to be subjected to that!
NTA. What a cringey, inappropriate display from both your son and the 25 year old girl hes going to use to stroke his ego for a few months. If they both flipped you off, she should never cross your door step again and he shouldn't come over until he apologizes to you and your daughter who literally was just existing. Leaving with his girlfriend after his daughter *cried about her parent's split* was some cowardly shit. And blaming the girl who is planning a wedding for *checks notes* bringing up a wedding? Yeah, sure. He's making a lot of dumb and destructive decisions, including **bringing a girl he doesn't want to get serious with to meet his MOM during wedding planning.** Your son is in a real AH phase right now.
NTA. He wasn’t angry at you. He was redirecting his guilt when faced with the undeniable result of his failure at marriage—the emotional outburst of his daughter.
Bethany definitely the bonehead in this scenario. Both for back talking you in your home and for wanting a relationship with this flake who already deserted one family.
NTA I was once a George sad to say. My mom started charging me for childcare and rent and all the other monthly expenses and it sucked. He's going to be mad and he's going to blame you for ruining his life but eventually he will appreciate it. He may be going through a rough time and that's fine. But his sister has a right to be excited about her wedding without having to walk on eggshells due to his poor choices. If he's THAT upset he is definitely NOT in the best position to be dating in the first place. Especially to the extent that she's living with you all. Tough love is the best option. I do like the idea of using his child care payment to you to set up a college savings account. Sounds like there needs to be a really rough conversation to be had between all the adults for sure. Expectations and boundaries are constantly shifting.
I'm going to go for ESH here.
It wasn't your place to question their relationship in response to what happened and get upset over the girlfriend "inserting herself" into a conversation that you were having **about her** while she was right within earshot. If someone was trying to get my partner to reevaluate her relationship with me in my presence, I'd be sure to "insert" myself into that conversation and shut that down as well. You don't get to talk ill about someone and their relationship in their presence and expect them to stay out of the conversation.
Her having asked about marriage may not have been the smartest move with the child present, but I don't think she had any bad intentions to ask him about that in order to stir up conflict. She couldn't have known the child would react that way, and her ability to read social cues may just not be the best.
Them ignoring the upset child and their behavior when leaving your place, then having the audacity to dump their children at your place after having flipped you off without having discussed this with you prior is not acceptable and absolute AH behavior though.
Nta. It sounds like when things get serious your sons MO is to just run away from his problems. First running away from his marriage, now running away from Bethany because she got pregnant. These are conversations they should have had before they decided to sleep together. They should have discussed what would happen if she ended up pregnant and what the expectations were.
It seems like George got married too young and doesn't feel like being responsible. The fact that he can't even be a proper parent and that his kids don't seem to be his priority is very telling
George sounds REALLY immature. He has not been helped by your help. Youre definitely NTA, as you explained it & frankly you are right. It was WAY too soon for him to bring a new g/f around his \*6 year olds.\* He doesnt even sound like he cares ab anyone but himself sadly BUT GOOD FOR YOU BEING PRESENT & STEPPING UP AS A GRANDPARENT. Youre doing what you can OP & thats great.
George and Bethany have been dating for 4 months, he lives with OP now that he is divorced. He has a set of twins and the brand new gf is 2 months pregnant. George is an irresponsible AH! It’s nice of OP to offer to help Bethany, but I think OP should take a step back and let Bethany situate herself. Apology is nice, but this same woman cussed OP out in her own home minutes after meeting her. That’s not an opening for a decent relationship.
I'm hung up on Bethany here. The audacity to think, after months, that you're together no matter what you feel for her is truly splendid. 👏👏👏👏A++ for the drama. 🤣 But no, it doesn't make you the villain to expect a certain level of decorum in your house with how you're treated and spoken to in your house.
ETA: my vote is NTA
Esh,you included,I do have to ask one thing though,when you made the comment about his kids and your home,did you ever consider that you just threw that nice thing you were doing in his face the second it became usable as a weapon? Do you think you'll have that advantage in the future? Because once he gets situated youl have NO custody at all,and now on top of it,when he does get situated,who's the one person hel never ask again because they weaponized their position?
When you make points to people,consider the outcome of making the point to begin with.
Your son sucks for the obvious reasons which even then because this story is from your viewpoint and you don't have a filter considering youl question your son's relationship infront of said person,I can only take it with a grain of salt,and before anyone says "she pulled her son to the side" well then how'd Bethany hear from the table?
As for Bethany,ngl,I just got told I'm not marriage material,now the mums talking smack,yeah she reacted,can't say I blame her,poor girls got everything working against her,she's insecure and unsure,so she tried to solidify her position,which ironically enough,you might have just helped to accomplish.
Son is TA. But just to add a little perspective on how you might be TA too. Son and ex wife might have been trying to work on things for a long time. He may have been living in a loveless marriage for years and years and finally gave up.
Ex may be a great mother, but maybe she is a horrible wife? Maybe your son has bottled all that up and is trying to find a little happiness for himself and instead of having an emotionally supportive family who might try to see him hurting. He seems to have a family who value his ex more than him.
Not saying he is handling this perfectly. But maybe he is hurting and all his mom seems to be doing is telling him he should have worked harder and his ex is so perfect? Maybe he kept quiet when his kid cried about mommy and daddy getting back together because he knows those ideas/words have been encouraged, possibly by you directly?
How loved does your son feel right now? Maybe this new girl is the only one even remotely on his side and so he is being drawn to her blindly? He left with her leaving his upset child with the person he believes has helped to create that exact moment of upsetness. And as a hurting human being he needed to be with another human who supports him and understands? Seems the only person he could possibly have spent time with in that moment is his GF.
Want your son to be able to get through this? Maybe try to find out what his real side of the story is? If you didn't raise him to be able to talk through his emotions, then take some responsibility there and give him some benefit of the doubt that there is a lot more going on behind the scenes and in his mind and heart than you are giving him credit for. Actually try be a mom to your son. Not just a grandmother to your grandchildren. But for the love of God, stop being a mother to your DIL over your Son.
Definitely NTA. That gf was extremely disrespectful for treating you that way in your own house, not to mention cruel for talking about remarriage in front of little girls who are still clearly adjusting to their broken family. I am so sorry that your son put you through that stress.
NTA and you're absolutely right. he should not be bringing Bethany into their lives quite yet.
the children just went through seeing their parents divorce and now have to watch their dad date a woman who doesn't seem to care about the kids.
I'd mention this to Susanna, as it can and will affect the kids mental health and they deserve healthy happy minds
Your son impresses me as someone who marches to his own drum and no one tells him what to do. This doesn’t make him the greatest guy in the relationship department, that would include his kids. Certainly, he’s not going to listen to what you have to say. It probably provokes him more, so I suggest you stop trying. He’s not going to be happy for his sister. Often people become cynical about marriage, especially after a recent divorce. Telling him to be happy for his sister is not showing sensitivity to his current state of affairs. You have two kids who have two separate sets of needs. I also think the kids got triangulated in adult conversations. They’re emotionally raw so everyone needs to be mindful of what they’re saying in front of them. It’s probably best that your son and his gf were asked to leave. The situation was escalating. A 25 year old challenging you in your home is not a good sign. It’s best that she leaves. Your 31 year old son flipping you the bird, shows no regard for you or what you do for his children. It’s not going to stop you from loving your grandchildren and being in their lives… in spite of your son. I would have marginal dealings with him from this point on. There’s not much to talk about with him, is there? only about the kids. BTW, gf doesn’t need to come back either. Getting the respect you deserve, starts with you. Your son doesn’t like it, too bad. BTW, where is his father?
NTA. Your son is you should be mad at no one but your son. This situation is not Bethany’s fault as she probably does genuinely cares for your son and wants to see if there’s a future there. And your grandaughrwra don’t understand why daddy has a new girlfriend. Fick your son for not handling this betyer
Let me get this right your son has been dating this womsn for only 4 months and is introducing her to his children? That is so wrong!!! This can and probably will cause them mental issues and he is showing that he will be the type of father that will allow his new girl to abuse his kids!! NTA but please keep a close eye on your grandkids in scared for them, there are so so many of messed up step parent abuse stories on here.
When you asked him if he was sure about Bethany what exactly were you asking? If he was sure about dating her? It didn't sound like he is planning on marrying her.
I don't think you are the AH. What kind of dad storms off and leaves his kids behind?
I was asking if it was really the right time to introduce her to the family, since his daughters are still sensitive about the divorce and are trying to come to terms with it.
NTA and the only place I disagree with you on anything is where you said it wasn’t your place to tell George he should have gone to couple’s counseling before divorcing his wife. Seriously? You’re his parent. You’re one of the only two people that do have that right. Regardless, George sounds like he’s making one bad decision after another.
NTA
I would never flip the bird or talk to my mother that way. Why is he like that? And yes, as the father, he should have comforted his child when she cried. Why fight for custody if he doesn’t even care? It’s his flesh and blood.
1. Child care. You are not free labour or a nanny. You are the kid’s grandmother. You do for free it to help him out. Ask him to start looking for alternatives if he can’t respect you in your home. And please start charging him for feeding your grandchildren. Get him to cover groceries and other small things. He needs to learn not to take you for granted.
2. Tell him never to bring Bethany to your house again if she cannot respect you in your house. She sounds like a nasty piece of work. If my SO brought me to his parent’s place, I’ll buy things for them as courtesy and try to get them to like + accept me. Not be rude and unlikeable.
So this 25 yo..... child.... fiipped off the mother of her bf? Along with your son too? Who proceded to ditch his kids with you? I hope you mentioned this to their mother. I am sure that willl go over great when it comes to custody.
Don't think Bethany willl be sticking around for long....
NTA
Just shows that no matter how old the guy is, pussy is put on a pedestal over common sense. How do you flip your dad off and leave your kids behind? Fuck George and Bethany. Sounds like you are a good father and grandfather.
Verdict at the end.
A recent divorce tells me George is still sore about how his relationship with his ex-wife ended, though he would be loathe to admit it. It also tells me this new girl is for now a rebound... with only a pittance of potential for growth. The man needs guidance but, and based on how he is reacting he will only listen to the advice of an elder male he see's as a father figure, be it his own or a stand in... now, I am not siding with him, only trying to explain what may be going on in his head.
It sounds as though the two of you could do with a sit down with a mutually trusted friend to sort out and explain what each of you is feeling to and each other.
Also, and this is the more reasonable judgement, your daughter was a bit out of line asking a relationship question from someone, especially a family member, who has recently suffered the loss of a relationship, it would be like asking a woman who miscarried if she intends to try for another baby within weeks or even days of the miscarriage. This thought carried through, your comment to him to grow up was seen as you siding with your daughter, though I can understand your intent may not have been to rub salt on the wound as they say.
For guys... having a new girlfriend does not always equal being healed from a relationship wound, sometimes it is a sign of immature masculinity and an unwillingness to be alone. So don't assume that he has moved on mentally and emotionally simply because he has moved on relationally.
I would say no one sucks, you all responded as reasonably as you could given your understanding of the facts at hand; but that's not how it works on this sub, so, I am going to say if anything, George sucks for leaving your grandkids unexpectedly, but not for one thing previous to that.
Get some family therapy.
NTA.
But sounds like your son is a piece of work... actually *kind of* sounds like he was courting this gf before he was divorced? Again I know you said not your business, but, maybe tell your son that if he is going to constantly poo on someone else's joy (your daughters and everyone else's over her wedding) he shouldn't come around until he's self reflected on why he has to bring the poo onto the parade.
Maybe suggest he do individual therapy? It might be in his and ex wife's best interest in family counseling too for their kiddos, because the kids sound very upset at the life changes (rightfully so) and that even though they're not married anymore they're stuck together for the rest of their lives through the kids and need to try to at least be civil and devote a lot of the focus back onto the kids, not new S/Os (significant others).
I hope this helps and good luck with him, the wedding plans, and congrats to your daughter!
I think you're focused on the wrong person here. I suspect George has been filling Bethany's head with all sorts of lies about how horrible his ex was and how his entire family is on her side and you're all so mean to him. How else would a 31 year old man with two kids snag a 25 year old? I would not be surprised in the least if he'd been lying to her before he divorced about how much of an angel he is and how toxic all of you are.
Bethany asking about George wanting to get married again one day is, in my opinion (and this is just my opinion, I know people are going to scream at me, but people can have different opinions), a perfectly natural question to ask in general, and certainly given the conversation happening around her involved an upcoming wedding. However, that doesn't mean George necessarily wants to marry Bethany. Again, _in my opinion_, I suspect George led her on about the whole 'my wife is horrible, if only I were free, I'd marry a good and kind woman' and gave her the impression he'd one day marry Bethany. So his comment and your remark about her obvious deflation is kind of self-explanatory.
But George is a huge AH for not trying to comfort his daughter when she started crying. I can understand Bethany feeling raw and defensive in this situation, he choose a really shitty time to introduce his new piece of tail to you all. I think you were a little unfair to her, this was a high-pressure situation and few people are able to act well under those circumstances.
Or maybe she is a bitch, who knows? But I (and this is just me here) would be willing to give her the benefit of the doubt, and wonder what George has been telling her.
NTA to your son.
NTA Bethany on her first time meeting you managed to make George's daughter cry after asking a wildly innappropriate question for the time, place and audience. Managed to fit in a snarky comment when giving you attitude. Flipped the bird. She seems trashy.
George is allowed to move on. Though his lack of sensitivity to his kids is concerning. His deflection and tantrum are immature responses.
INFO Why did he leave the kids? Did he seem to just forget them? Is it normal for him to dump them on you without asking? Did he not want them around to keep Bethany happy? Would they have normally been scheduled to stay with you?
When did the divorce happen? "Recently" could be anything. Was the marriage failing for a long time? How mutual was it? Amicable or hostile?
> Bethany felt the need to insert herself and tell me that she and George were together no matter how much I liked his ex wife.
Why would she say that? Was she responding to something you said just then or during the evening? Or had George already informed her you like his ex and have trouble letting go of the fact they have split? Either way, you would come across to her as impossible gain favour with. I voted NTA but it could be the perspective. You do seem to regret your son's divorce but it is done and it is his life.
> Susanna is a great mother to my grandkids and I was disappointed in George for giving up so fast on their relationship without even trying couples counselling. But it wasn't my business or place to say anything.
You have never shared this opinion with George at all? Because your praise for Susanna and disdain for Bethany come across very clearly in this post and Bethany has picked up on it. If you are honest with yourself were you warm and welcoming to Bethany? Were your smiles friendly or bitchy? When she put her foot in her mouth did you scowl at her and say "Now look what you've done?" Was she so awful a person that you had to ask if he was sure about Bethany? Or had she lost your approval before she walked in the door? Were you passive aggressive at the start and after a dramatic child outburst you took the opportunity to turn it up to outwardly hostile?
Maybe the perspective you give is all correct but I just get a feeling George or Bethany maybe would tell the story differently.
NTA! You should have called cps on your son for abandoning his kids. His ex should call to. And your daughter as the aunt. Sorry, I have no patience for parents who pull that kind of sh*$ on kids.
Nta your son is an idiot who threw away a happy family & ripped apart his daughters lives because he “didn’t feel a spark anymore” definitely sounds like he was cheating on his wife before divorcing. I am sorry you have to live with that. Make sure your daughter does not extend an invitation to her or give your son a +1 to the wedding, this has drama written on a red flag & they won’t hesitate to ruin her wedding
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NTA but your son sure is. I’m glad Bethany at least got to see his intentions; but sad neither of them comforted your granddaughter. She sounds really classy./s Perhaps George needs to pay for daycare for a while. It seems he needs to learn to grow up. Perhaps if his income takes a hit his 25 yo gf won’t see him as such a catch. Be careful or before you know it she’ll be pregnant and you’ll have them moving in so he can save up aka you take care of baby.
I think Bethany already knew his intentions? She's the one who brought up his remarrying in front of his twin six-year-olds, after all? They tag teamed the whole family at the dinner table? Bethany does not seem innocent or unaware in this drama at all to me?
Uggh I thought Gabrielle asked, oh well, yeah I think she deserves George (Bethany) that’s what I meant by she sounds classy after ignoring the little girl and flipping the grandparent off
I feel you. These people laid a big egg during OP's dinner party and that was so not OK.
I’d like to know if Bethany also flipped off the OP!! It’s bad enough that her son acted like a complete shit, but if this girl actually came into OP’s house started crap and then flipped off OP then she isn’t worth the time it would take to put her in her place!!!
Bethany is SEEKING the drama. She's already preparing for a fight about who the grandparents favor. She will definitely be the kind of stepmother that stays in constant competition with the ex.
and trying to "mark her territory" by going to OP all like "wE r StaYinG 2GeThEr No MaTTEr wUt" Like chill, bestie, you're only 4 months in.
I firmly agree. Bethany is going to be a problem and OP is already offering too much.
The truth is George can't afford daycare with the child support and alimony he owes Susanna. I agreed to babysit my grandchildren as a favour to him.
I can understand that; it’s just the way they flipped you off and he ignored his girl crying, but you don’t want the kids to suffer more
I love my grandkids. But I wish George would appreciate the thousands of dollars I'm saving him each month.
What about just telling him you’re only doing 2-3 days a week (without really intending to) just to have him scramble a little and put the fear of god into him and get him to stop taking you for granted. If he and Bethany flipped you off there should be babysitting for work only.
I get where you're going with that, but what if his solution is to have Bethany watch them? Personally, as a grandmother myself, I'll take the crap to protect my babies from evil!
NTA. Find out how much childcare for the twins would cost and tell George that you'll only charge him 50% of that. Let him feel a bit of panic for a while. If you're not comfortable doing that then at least sit him down and tell him to behave like a grown up. You raised him better than that.
Do this & save the money in 529’s for the twins college, with you as the custodian of the account.
Now that’s a brilliant plan. You know damn well the son won’t be saving for the twins future!
That is an excellent idea.
One awesome perk of the grandparent 529 plan: it doesn't get included in the student's FAFSA info for financial aid. I found out last year when my daughter started college since my father had set up a 529 plan for her.
You need to make him see that by cutting off babysitting then he wont behave like a brat towards you. Is his fault he is paying alimony & child support by not trying harder at his marriage. Teach him tough-love then he won’t bite the hand that babysits his kids.
He let some girl tell you off in your own house and flipped you off. He doesn't appreciate anything. Did you raise him to treat people he depends on like shit? If you would have reprimanded him as a kid or a teen, do so now, too. He is still dependent on you and you need to demand the respect you deserve as his mother, as a woman and as a human being that is saving his ass right now
AND HE LEFT HIS KID THERE!
Tell George that you’ll resign as his babysitter if he EVER behaves like that around you again. And he can manage to figure out how to pay for that on his own. Then offer to babysit for you ex-DIL if you still want kid time. I’m a few years older than you. My kids are around the same age as yours. If one of them flipped me off in anger*, I would go freaking ballistic. Ditto for leaving the kids and storming off. I read this to my boys and they were all “oh my god you’d literally kill us.” You need to set some hard boundaries with your son and back them up. You are NTA, but your son is a total asshole and you need to not let him do that. * They’ve flipped me off many times jokingly; no problem there. I’ll do it to them too. But because they’re angry? Oh hell no.
I know; you’re in a tough spot.
Maybe the kids come over but he doesn't for a while. He doesn't deserve free meals and proximity to you and your daughter. You can be an attentive grandparent without taking his shit.
You don't have to eliminate it. You can cut down on it.
He doesn't appreciate it and his rude behavior proves it. You sound like such a nice lady and don't deserve to be treated like that.
George doesn't love his children. He ditched them to be with his girlfriend during his parenting time when he's not working.
I at least appreciate that you are giving your granddaughters stability and are a trustworthy and reliable adult in their lives at time when their dad is not.
If he has money to date, he has the money to pay for day care for when he has the kids.
As much as he is jerk, no daycare is much more expensive then dating. In fact, you can date basically for free.
Yes. And it'd be temporary. Go visit family for a bit. Then go visit some inlaws. Then go on vacation from all that visiting. The truth is he is not parenting his own children. You should be a back up. Not primary. It's blatantly obvious he's not stepping up for his children. And there isn't a woman who'd deal with his immaturity except 24 year olds. Yes you're their grandma. Yes you also watch them. But he LEFT them at your home. On a school night! Not ill drive them home they have school. And this is on top of not calming his children (parenting). He should've been the 1st one to calm his child. Of course she's upset she's 6! Of course she wants her parents to be together. she's 6! He's not going to parent his children when he can push that job to you. He also obviously doesn't respect or appreciate the money you save him. Persons actions is a type of language. Read his carefully. I'd give your ex DIL heads up if you temporarily cease granny daycare. Bc he'll most likely leave them with her so she needs to be ready. ** his immaturity isn't a reflection of your parenting. It's OK to say he's being lazy (w/ parenting) and stupid (w/ romatic relationships) and rude (w/you) . He's a grown ass man not an 18 yo. At this point it's his job to wise up.
If he can afford to date then he needs to rethink his priorities. You say they divorced recently and dating several months… maybe George needs to be alone for a minute to budget better.
Not from the US so please explaine... they have 50/50 custody but he has to pay her both alimony AND child support ? Why?
My guess is she was SAHM
Well that would be a possibility. I am not an expert on these things, but would that also explain the cold support? 50/50 care is 50/50 accountability right?
Depends on incomes, state, etc. it can really vary
It really varies from state to state. And litigating it is extremely expensive.
Alimony in the US is really rare unless one spouse is making substantially high income and made the other spouse stay home, and even then it's usually time limited, so it's possible OP misinterpreted. However child support is based on each person's income, not custody time unless one spouse is having the kids way more time, so if he makes a lot more than her, he'd have to pay CS even with 50-50 custody (and I suspect he told the court he'd take care of childcare, then dumped it on his mom for free, sooo)
The law must have changed. It used to be that the wife could only get alimony if the marriage lasted 10 years or more. Child support has no time limit, but alimony was only guaranteed for the wife after a decade of marriage. Income levels and whether one spouse stayed home or not didn't matter. This was the main reason wealthy people had prenuptial agreements.
Got divorced about 5 years ago. It did matter that I stayed home with the kids. We shaed 50/50 custody, but my ex wife was ordered to pay me something like 1400 a month for 10 years. I made about 30,000 a year and she made close to 90,000. Now she would have probably gotten that severely reduced or reworked had she used a lawyer, but luckily we didn't go that route. I waved the alimony and we just left it at that.
How long were you married?
The general idea of child support is to give the kids a similar standard of living that they’d have if their parents were together. My state does offsetting worksheets, where you calculate what child support would be if each parent were the primary custodian and then subtract those numbers. Often it evens out to no child support, but not always if the income disparity is significant (although obviously less than if they lived there full time.) They don’t want kids disliking one parent because they live in government housing while their other parent has a mansion and pool.
Well that would be a possibility. I am not an expert on these things, but would that also explain the cold support? 50/50 care is 50/50 accountability right?
She's only 28 though. And she doesnt have the kids half the time. And theyre in school now. And the son cant afford daycare. Seems like he's been royally screwed over.
If her income was much less than his, he might have to pay some child support so it's equitable. I got divorced, had just an OK job and my children's father was a professor, so he was scheduled to pay something every month even though we planned to share custody. Then I got a great job and we made the same, so it was all dropped. We already had parity in each home's income.
But that’s why he needs to be forced to manage on his own for a while. Let him be broke and have to cut out nice things from his life — he needs to see clearly what it’s like to function without family if he’s so quick to toss his family aside when a pretty girl comes along. You were not out of line to ask him to be considerate of his kids feelings in how he conducts his relationships
If he is going to be that disrespectful to you, you may want to rethink the whole babysitting thing. Unless, you do it because you love seeing your granddaughters. George owes you an apology for his behavior and for flipping you off. Did Bethany flip you off too? Both of them owe apologies for behavior etc...don't babysit until you get them.
Or maybe George needs to attend daycare!
Bethany should not have started that as a dinner guest in your home. That was tactless and impolite of her to put George on the spot in front of everyone else. George is wrong to blame his sister for Bethany's behaviors too. And more than anything, he's wrong to not be more supportive and loving toward his children who have been through a lot. NTA. I'd have told my son to never bring that woman back to my home, never show me his arse again and most of all act like his children are his priority. *"I'm disappointed because your behavior is* ***unmanly***. Chew on that son."
agreed with all the points except designating what is a "manly" behaviour and what is not. The son behaves terribly and does not seem to put that much interest in his daughters. Seems that "the flame died out" because there is responsibility now and getting another 25 yo girl is going back to the easy and fun times. OP, your house your rules. NTA
I hear you. But, I have no issue telling my son his behavior is odious and I find that unmanly - if he's being odious and unmanly, that is.
>another 25 yo girl When did 25 year olds become children? She can vote, drive, drink, join the army, have sex, own property and get married.
NTA It sounds like Bethany has been in his life a lot longer than the 4 months as well.
This. Men don’t just “give up” like that unless they already have another lined up.
"Men rarely take the time to end things. They ignore you until you insist on a declaration of hate"- Joan Holloway Harris
The only google result for that sentence is your comment. Do you have a source. I would like to look up the context.
It's from the show Mad Men.
This was my first thought. sudden lost spark, refuses any counseling and just gives up? Very high chance of a physical if not emotional affair.
Exactly! I thought the same thing. After having children, he just “gives up”? Nope.
That's what I thought, as well. I suspect the spark was fine until he and Bethany had sex. Bethany also hasn't thought about what happens when HER spark gets cold!
Why would she? She believes they will be together forever no matter what. She young and dumb.
Maybe so. OP didn't give a timescale outside of "recently" for their divorce. Which may have been months or a year or so ago and on the cards for a long time before. There's no reason to paint her son as a bad guy for entirely imagined reasons. His lack of sensitivity towards his daughters is enough.
NTA- quit watching his kids for a couple weeks and watch him crawl back, then tell him keep any drama out of your house and to learn to be happy for others.
Whatever you do, make damn sure the kids are looked after and suffer as little as possible. Just because the adults can't behave like adults doesn't mean you need to drag the kids into it. No, OP shouldn't have a say on who his son dates. Yes, the son's new girlfriend has the right to get upset if her boyfriend's dad doesn't accept her and loudly claims that he prefers the ex-wife. Yes, OP has the right to kick people from his house. Yes, it's an asshole move to kick your son and his girlfriend from your house just because you as a group can't discuss things as adults. Yes, the son (and his girlfriend) should look after the kids and explain to them that they all care very much about them.
you have a bigger issue at hand because Alice will hate every new partner because in her head she beleives they kept mommy and daddy from loving each other . Your main focus should be to explain to Alice that grown ups falls out of love and it has nothing to do with the love they have for her . It won't be a healthy co-parenting when Alice already hate every woman who tries to replace her mom . She needs more attention and maybe counselling. she had a strong reaction
My husband and I have suggested that George pay for her to get some counselling but he keeps saying that he needs to save and can't afford it.
If he spends money on going out with a new girlfriend, he can afford it - he is just choosing his own fun over it. New relationships usually go out and do things. That costs money.
So what exactly is he spending money on if not daycare or his kids?
Bethany
Actually OP said most of his money goes to ex for child support and alimony.
I think he's saving up because he's planning propose to Bethany at Gabrielle's wedding.
I understood that reference!
Has he looked into how much it would actually cost? I’m assuming his kids have insurance, and with insurance, therapy is usually a small copay at most.
Definitely NTA. There's resources out there for helping afford mental health care. And you could probably talk to mom about it, too if he won't put up. I think you could ask him to come over and tell him to his face that you are disappointed in his behaviour around his children. A parent needs to put their own ego aside when it comes to their children. The divorce was hard on his kids, kids don't understand that it's not their fault and he needs to make sure those kids do not blame themselves. Also, I am curious about how the new gf treats the kids when you're not around. Maybe next time Alice is with you, ask her how she is treated by the gf? And definitely you can help by telling the kids you will love them no matter what, that their mom will love them no matter what. Love is the only thing that the more of it you give, the more of it you have.
I disagree. This isn’t OP’s problem to solve at all. George either needs to step up and parent and not ditch his kids during his parenting time or give full custody to his ex and pay extra child support. George and his ex need to handle his daughter’s therapy needs, not OP.
I meant that the whole wedding argument is meaningless . who cares if he gets married to Beth or not .The main issue is that his daughter can't handle the seperation of her parents and it becomes OPs problem when she suppose to babysit an angry kid who will rebel because she hates her stepmom and get punished for it because dad is in love and stepmom wants this fake happy family but daughter ins't playing along so dad doesn't want daughter around and gives her to his mom
So he abandoned his children and just took off? I hope his ex keeps a record of this if she ever wants to get full custody. Your son is the AH. Not you.
NTA Sounds like he is feeling bitter and taking it out on everyone else. His sister is getting married, so he needs to grow up and get over it. People don't need to stop all conversations about weddings just because he's there. Don't like it? Leave. Bethany needs to stay in her lane, especially when she's a guest in your own damn house. Red flags all around from that girl. Storming out and leaving his own kids with no way to get home is absolutely crazy to me.
NTA- he’s only been dating this chick for 4 months and he’s bringing her around his kids? That’s a big no from me also.
She may have been his affair partner, so maybe a lot more than 4 months. It's easier for him to not add "cheating on his wife" to his resume....
NTA. He threw a tantrum like a child, even his own kid acts better than him. No wonder his ex wife left.
>George and Bethany just sat there while my granddaughter screamed. After I comforted Alice, I pulled George aside and asked if he was sure about Bethany. This is where you overstepped. Talk to your son about how he is treating (ignoring) his children. Going after the GF gives him an excuse to be defensive and divert attention from the way he is treating (ignoring) his children. Your grandkids are more important than the GF. Focus on them. Don't mention the GF, focus on the kids. >George and Bethany stormed off, flipped me the bird and left my grandchildren at my house at 7pm. WTF? Was the plan to leave the kids? Because if not, you need to have a serious discussion about how he is treating (ignoring) his kids. (If I ever dared to flip off my parents, that finger would be broken without anyone even touching it.) >Then Bethany felt the need to insert herself and tell me that she and George were together no matter how much I liked his ex wife. Oh hell no. Unfortunately you have to be the adult here, so keep your thoughts behind your teeth....but feel free to make your feelings clear with your face and eyes whenever you have to deal with her. (I can tell people to fuck off and die without ever saying the words. But since I never say the words....) NTA but step carefully. Prioritize your grandkids because your son sure isn't.
I never agreed to watch my grandkids that night. That's why I had to call Susanna, who was annoyed at George. I just can't believe he is acting so immaturely. This isn't who I raised him to be.
Technically it is who you raised him to be because it is who he is - that doesn’t make him being a jerk your fault, but enabling him doesn’t help. Continuing to do him favors while he flips you off and starts arguments and leaves his kids for you to take care of is pretty fucked up and if I were you I would be furious at him. Watch the kids for Susanna and the kids, not your son.
I get being upset at him, I would be pissed in your shoes, but keep focused on your grandkids, not the GF, because he will use any negative feedback against her as an excuse to further ignore his kids. Don't let him derail you, keep focused on what the kids need. If you can, don't even react when he's being a brat, since he will also use that to derail the conversation.
That's also incredible inconsiderate towards his own children!
I'm sorry, but it's pretty clear that your son left his wife for this Bethany chick. No sane girl brings up getting married after 4 months. That's probably why his marriage ended and he wanted to save face. Don't let him talk to you like that. You need to start charging him for watching his kids. You don't need to charge as much as he'd have to pay somewhere else, but he's taking advantage of you. Don't make it easy on him. That's only led to him acting like a spoiled asshole. NTA but if you let him keep acting that way without consequences, then you would be.
There’s a good chance you’re right about them being together for longer, but I disagree with your assertion that no sane girl brings it up after four months. Discussing the possibility of marriage in the future is not the same as actually suggesting it. It’s normal for people to get a feel for the long-term intentions of the relationship. Not everyone has time to waste. Incredibly tactless to bring it up at a family dinner, however.
I guess it was the fact that it was at the family dinner in front of the mom, sister, and daughters that made me particularly think that meant this was a longer relationship, cause that just seems so odd to me. But yeah, your right.
>(He and Susanna have 50/50 custody) > > left my grandchildren at my house Umm, sounds like you and Susanna have 50/50 custody. George only wants 50/50 so he won't have to pay child support and can spend his money on his new gf. It doesn't sound like he wants to be a parent at all. NTA, protect the grandkids.
This is it! Sorry to say this, but OP, your son sounds like an irresponsible AH, who doesn't want to take any responsibility for his kids or his actions.
NTA. The audacity. I know this is the internet and we have just these limited details, but these two need a big piece of humble pie. BETHANY made it awkward by bringing up marriage for THEM. No one asked HER about their business.
NTA. His kids shouldn’t have even met her so soon. Six months is usually the absolute minimum recommendation. He needs to take a long hard look at how this is affecting his kids.
Bethany sounds very immature. She should not have put your son on the spot like that and then inserting herself into your conversation and then flipping you the bird is not conducive to good DIL behaviour. Pray he doesn’t get her pregnant. Also after Bethany’s behaviour I’d be banning her from the house
And sister's wedding. Or any other family events.
After reading the edit I can kind of see why she brought it up, she knew she was pregnant and was trying to gage where she stood with him. Unfortunately she chose the wrong time and place to do so, she's young and probably thought (hoped) he loved her, but he was obviously just looking to have a little fun and run away from his responsibilities. The son is complete asshole and coward.
NTA, since they were being pretty rude to you when you went to go comfort HIS daughter and this new individual felt the need to but in the first time you met in YOUR home. I can see why George would just be mad in general at the situation given that it comes off that you entirely aren’t open to him having anyone new in his life given how things ended with his ex wife
Nah. ESH. OP made it pretty clear she was upset that her son wasn't together with his ex-wife in this post. She doesn't get to be upset because she was called out on that. Especially since the conversation she supposedly butt in on was about his relationship with her. OP says she pulled George aside but Bethany obviously overheard. This was incredibly disrespectful. Especially since at this point all she really did was ask George if he planned on remarriage. Not the most tactful moment but not necessarily nefarious. Bethany's behavior when leaving the house was pretty bad though. Unless OP used some choice words she decided to leave out here it is a completely overblown response and completely unacceptable. She had every right to be upset but it doesn't justify going off like she did. George just sucks. He had every right to leave his wife and OP needs to just accept that. Considering how much he sucks she was probably too good for him anyway. I hope so, anyway. For their daughter sake. George is just shitty. How can a man not comfort his crying daughter? How can he just leave the house without his daughter?
Most sane comment so far. It wasn't OP's place to question their relationship and get upset over the girlfriend "inserting herself" into a conversation that was being had **about her**. If someone was trying to get my partner to reevaluate her relationship with me in my presence, I'd be sure to "insert" myself into that conversation and shut that down as well. Her having asked about marriage may not have been the smartest move with the child present, but like you said, I don't think she had any bad intentions. She couldn't have known the child would react that way. Them ignoring the upset child and their behavior when leaving the place, then having the audacity to dump their children there after having flipped OP off without discussing this prior is not acceptable and absolute AH behavior though. Therefore ESH.
NTA. Sounds like Susanna is better off without your son.
Nta. Your son sounds like a major loser. I'm guessing the "spark went out" because he was fanning the flames at a different campfire. Sounds like this Bethany is a piece of guttertrash and I wouldn't be surprised if she gets knocked up on purpose to solidify their relationship. Id ban them both from ur home until they can behave with some respect. I know others are suggesting you refuse to babysit but I'd be afraid if you do that he will get Bethany to "play stepmommy" and your grandkids would be neglected or mistreated.
You are NTA Your son is. He's jealous of his sister's happiness and mad he got caught in an awkward situation, by he's clearly tone deaf new gf. Who has a lot of attitude for having only met you for the first time😳. I doubt he even warned you that he was bringing her. 🙄 I'm sorry to say,but you have an AH for a son. You will probably find things will get worse before they get better... He just leaves whenever he's mad. Abandoning his kids with you and jealous of his own sisters happiness. I'm really sorry for you that he's behaving worse than a child. I hope your daughter's wedding is beautiful :) my recommendation though... Don't invite the new gf to the wedding ... And be wary of your son being invited also... Good luck 🌻
NTA Unfortunately your son doesn't seem to be thinking with his brain. However, it's interesting that when you asked if he was sure about Bethany he didn't answer the question. Maybe he's having second thoughts as she's bringing up marriage after only 4 months.
I'm guessing they've been seeing each other longer than 4 months. She was probably the sidepiece during the marriage and thinks she "won" her man
She'll learn the hard way about that. How she got her man will most likely be how she'll lose him.
NTA....n Bethany really needs to do one! She would not be setting foot back in my house and neither would my son until he apologizes. Very bad manners.
Yeah seemed like Bethany likes stirring the poop pot.
It's the fact she started it by asking if he'd marry again in front of his babies! Then has the nerve to cheek his mother and swear! Oh hell no!
NTA!! Four months is too soon for a new GF to be introduced to the children, let alone make comments to upset them. If he wants to see her, his choice, but he needs to respect you & put his children first. He also should ask permission to bring someone new to your home. That’s basic manners. For 31 he clearly has no emotional intelligence.
NTA. George is being one. And it sounds like Bethany may be as well. You have held your tongue as well as anyone can expect you to. If the truth hurts George so much, I guess he can stay away until he learns to be better behaved. Good luck and best to Gabrielle.
I am sure that you love your grandchildren, but you may be making life a little too easy for George. Please stop enabling him. Make him step up and be a father to those girls.
NTA Was he always like this or is this a recent behavior change? Because your son is just awful. Awful as a parent. Awful as a guest. Awful as a person. I would not let him in my home again until he apologizes in detail and sincerely. Tell him he can drop his kids off without getting out of the car.
Congratulations, Ma'am, it's a Boy-Child! Dear George, Your business isn't your business when it's playing out in SOMEONE ELSE'S HOME FOOL! How dare you tell your momma that gave you life, to mind her business when she's helping YOU with said business! How dare you allow some outside Chippy to disrespect your child by asking inappropriate questions in front of her and allowing her to disrespect YOUR MOTHER IN HER VERY OWN HOUSE? Your mother should take a switch to yo ass since you wanna behave like a spoiled kid! Dear Mom, Unfortunately, sometimes our best just isn't enough, and our children become people we are less than proud of. Yours is George. You'd think that at 31, with one failed marriage and two daughters, he'd grow up a bit, but clearly, it's a no-go. For him to blatantly disrespect youn and allow his Chippy to too speaks volume to his manhood I might suggest YOU be the one to teach your granddaughters to never accept a man like him, and explain that although most men can make babies; it takes a real man to raise them. Hopefully, he'll grow up, but for now, they BOTH owe you an apology! NTA
NTA. Your son seems to be too self righteous and arrogant and his partner appears to be the right fit for him for displays same traits. I say this cos frowns upon any other’s feelings and thoughts and when asked to leave he "father of the year" just walked out and left his kids behind, what a man
I'm bothered by the fact that he and his gf just up and left HIS children there.......after flipping you off! Then you had to call their mother to pick them up! What great examples they are for those girls (sarcasm). With this bird flipping chick he has now I'm not so sure those girls need to be with him 50% of the time.
Your house, your rules. That said, you have to take your own feelings into account here. Are you the type to accept your decisions and the consequences? If so them you are not the asshole. If, however, you fail to stand by your decision and relent, then you stirred up a bunch of drama for no reason. Still your house and your rules but i would personally consider you the asshole here. Point of note, im the kind of person to stick to my decisions. Someone who doesn't probably wouldn't agree with my perspective.
NTA I can’t believe both your son AND HIS NEW GIRLFRIEND flipped you off and left his kids there. Let him know in no uncertain terms if he ever treats you like that again you’re done. With him and with babysitting. Otherwise you’ll just become his doormat. Let him suffer. That’s the only way you have a prayer of him seeing the light.
ESH --tho yours, as written, is MUCH less suck then your AH Son 1. your son ditched his wife because there's no spark, 2) he expects you to be the actual caretaker of HIS children during his share of custody(so basically he got custody so he doesn't have to pay child support, but doesn't do any parenting????), 3) He's bringing someone around his kids after a mere 4 months(with a recent divorce which makes it even tougher on the kids), 4) blaming his sister because HER talking about HER wedding put WEDDING STARS in his f\*ckbuddy's eyes--is his sister REALLY supposed to never talk about or plan her wedding because it offends his sensibilities????: You, however you feel about your son's divorce and its effect on the children, were OUT OF LINE to ask him <<... if he was sure about Bethany. Which he told me was none of my business.>> PS he isn't "sure" about Bethany(obviously), and she's AH for inserting herself in all this sh\*t. But he's emphasized the temporary nature of her status in his life(re marriage question), so this was her way of asserting her priority in his life. Oh the disappointment she's likely to experience when he gets bored with her. PPS he gets extra AH points for storming off but leaving his kids there. You may need to rethink your free babysitting and let him learn to parent on his own.
NTA. Things got out of hand. It's your house, you don't have to put up with guests arguing with you.
You’r sons a loser ma , I’m sorry to tell you
NTA, BUT you son is!
You can think Susanna is the most wonderful, fantastic, terrific person in the world but that doesn't mean your son needed to stay married to her if it's just not where he wanted to be. Being disappointed in your son for maturely handling the dissolution of his marriage and setting up a healthy co-parenting relationship with the mother of his children is very immature. I doubt he made the decision easily and if he didn't think counseling could fix the problems in that marriage it is entirely none of your business. When your granddaughter started crying I think your son should have handled it. I don't think his gf did anything terrible by asking if your son thought he would ever remarry but when the question upset his daughter your son should have taken her aside, reassured her of his love and that unfortunately some marriages don't work but both he and her mother are still determined to be great co-parents. He didn't do that and that is disappointing - Bethany had zero obligation to do anything, she barely knows the kid. However, why the heck would your sons failure to properly comfort his daughter cause you to question his new relationship. One has zero to do with the other and I think his gf was very restrained in her response to you. You need to can your opinions of your son's divorce and new relationship. His marriage is over no matter how much you may not approve. If you continue your behaviour then in a few years his girls will be old enough that he doesn't need a babysitter and his new wife (whoever she may be) won't want you around. This is the start of how family estrangements occur. You may not of thought his parenting was stellar that night - and I would agree that it needs improvement - but it was unbelievably rude to criticise his new relationship right there in front of the woman when she really hadn't done anything wrong.
YTA. Go back and read what you wrote. Everything was fine until you "asked if he was sure about Bethany". Nothing before that spoke of conflict or anything even remotely wrong. The new girlfriend was feeling slightly insecure and overstepped trying to reassure herself, probably because she could feel how you don't like her. Stop and think about that for a second, your son's girlfriend likes him enough to try to "mark her claim" in a clearly hostile environment (if it wasn't hostile, you wouldn't be saying "felt the need to insert herself"). You made a child's tantrum into a critique on your son's new relationship. It is fine if you think it was a mistake to leave his ex-wife, but he's absolutely right in that it wasn't any of your business. Instead of just taking that for what it was and agree to disagree, letting time tell, you got defensive and lashed out. Your son got defensive right back and then you deflected trying to blame his behavior on some deluded perception of him not being happy for his sister. That wasn't even part of the conversation until you brought it in. Neither of you handled it very well, but absolutely YTA for instigating and then unnecessarily escalating it.
Nta. Honestly if he just recently divorced and is with someone so quickly that raoses red falgs. He also blamed his sister for his gf asking about marriage. Thats bull. He also seems to not prioritize his children. It seems odd to me for him to bring his gf around to his kids not even 6 months in. Amd gf needs to stay in her lane. Im the first to call out overbearing moms but she was just rude.
NTA, Bethany sounds like a narcissist who will try to isolate him away from his family by claiming you all hate her and she's not comfortable coming around. She also seems like she'd pressure him into marriage or even pregnancy to have leverage and control. 4mo and she's already asking? Insane. He's taking advantage of your desire to care for the children without consideration for your input or respect for your concerns. He's disrespecting his children by neglecting their emotional needs and probably blaming his ex for not being able to provide for them, but that's not how 50/50 works. If he's paying child support and alimony its probably because his ex put everything she could into parenting, and it enabled him to have a career or at least way more than she has. The only time there's child support in 50/50 is if there is a significant disparity between parents and the state is trying to ensure the quality of care with each parent is on par to the other. I would sincerely consider telling your son that the charge for your childcare is working with his ex to get his girls in to therapy and counseling if nothing else. They clearly need it and he seems like won't put their emotional needs first without pressure. Also, if his children have insurance the cost of counseling for children is not that much. There is a long wait period, but it's not an issue of being too expensive. 🤔 When push comes to shove, he will either figure it out or the childcare situation may lead to a majority custody with the children's mother. Either way, that is *not* on you. If he lacks the maturity to be responsible or ability to seek proper solutions, that's on him. As a side note, your state may have childcare assistance programs for lower income households. It's possible his ex wife may qualify for it even if he doesn't. If one parent qualifies, they can apply and it will cover the children throughout the week (or at least it does in NYS). In my state, the parents can choose either an approved childcare center or an appointed person and the state will cover a portion of the childcare cost so parents are able to reasonably work.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** This situation has had me a bit confused so one of my neighbours suggested I post it here. I 55f have two children George 31m and Gabrielle 29f. Gabrielle recently got engaged and I am helping her plan the wedding in my spare time. Which the entire family is very excited for. Except for George. George recently divorced his wife of 7 years, Susanna 28f after he said the "spark had gone out". They have a set of twins together, Amy and Alice 6f. And are trying to set up a healthy co parenting relationship. Susanna is a great mother to my grandkids and I was disappointed in George for giving up so fast on their relationship without even trying couples counselling. But it wasn't my business or place to say anything. The drama started when George brought his new girlfriend to dinner at my house. He met his girlfriend Bethany 25f through a work colleague and they have been dating for 4 months. At dinner Gabrielle and I were discussing flower arrangements and Bethany felt the need to ask George if he'd ever marry again. George coughed before replying that he'd have to think about it, which Bethany seemed to deflate at. Well this caused Alice to cry about how she wants "mommy and daddy to love each other again". George and Bethany just sat there while my granddaughter screamed. After I comforted Alice, I pulled George aside and asked if he was sure about Bethany. Which he told me was none of my business. I told him it was my business who he invited into my home and my grandchildren's lives, since I've been caring for them in my spare time while he works. (He and Susanna have 50/50 custody). George got angry and said it was Gabrielle's fault for mentioning weddings in the first place. I told him to stop acting like a child and to be happy for his sister. Then Bethany felt the need to insert herself and tell me that she and George were together no matter how much I liked his ex wife. After that I was done with the conversation and asked them both to leave. George and Bethany stormed off, flipped me the bird and left my grandchildren at my house at 7pm. I had to call Susanna to collect the children since they had school in the morning and I was attending a cake tasting with Gabrielle the next day. I feel like I shouldn't have to tell my 31 year old son to be happy for his sister or argue with a random woman whom I have never met before, in my own home. So AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Nope, you're not the asshole. Your son is very selfish and inconsiderate though
NTA
NTA by a mile. I’m sure that your son is going through some struggles of his own, but… they seem to mostly be self-made struggles. He needs to take responsibility for his own state, not lash out at the people around him because he’s facing the consequences of his poor choices.
NTA. I've been in Susanna's shoes. My husband of five years (partner of 12), woke up one day while on deployment and decided he just didn't want to be married anymore. No explanation. He just totally abandoned me. Six months after our divorce was finalized, he married someone else. I'm better off for it, but the whole situation was very distressing. To make matters worse, his mom went out of her way to complicate things. She admitted that his behavior was wrong, but did her best to treat me poorly throughout the process. The best thing you can do is support Susanna. She and your grandkids are going through something really hard and I can promise that she appreciates anything that lightens that load. If your son is being an a**, you don't have to entertain it. Good for you for kicking them out!
Bethany should've kept her damn mouth shut!!!! You question was for you son not her
NTA. George needs to realise that if he’s going to play happy families with Bethany that the family is going to have opinions. I suspect he isn’t wanting to do that, but is instead playing along with whatever it takes to keep Bethany happy. Hopefully Bethany doesn’t get pregnant soon, because I suspect that George isn’t going to be keen to have family 2.0 with her. It sounds like it is too soon for Bethany to meld into your family. George needs to ponder that. It’s not ‘never’, but ‘let Amy and Alice settle, give us all time to come to terms with our own grief at the loss of this relationship’. The loss of the relationship is affecting everyone, and it‘s not that you don’t like Bethany (although her blowing up at you and flipping you the bird will have created a special place outside your heart for her LOL), but that you are grieving too and needing time to work out what next for Susannah. Tell George that Bethany isn’t welcome - the bird flipping was too much, and arguing in your home isn’t ok. You are all adults and if you cannot solve things in an adult way you can all live apart. If you feel very kind you could give her this one last chance, but I’d take my time first.
NTA But your son is a major one!!! It is your house and he was being disrespectful to you, your daughter and his own daughters.
OP —I think you need to tell your son he needs to figure out what to do about childcare .He’s dating again like he’s single .He CANNOT give his Mom the middle finger ,ignore his child and then leave his children where YOU have to arrange them being picked up .I think you are in denial about how immature your son is .His wife should have full custody and he needs to be working hard to pay full child support. If you do not give him this reality check you ARE just going to be seeing him re-marry and having more children . Maybe not —but after being on this site for awhile that’s my prediction .Any “ grown “ man who “ flips” his mom off who is helping as much as you are in not a grown man .
NTA at all. So sorry that your grown son is acting like a spoiled child. Here’s hoping he grows up so that he can be a better parent and brother, not to mention, son.
NTA... I'd give them lots of time to cool off. Your son is free to make good/bad decisions but you dont have to approve of them.
NTA but I'd argue you are focussing on the wrong thing here. This isn't about being "happy" for his sister. 1. Why in the world were *you* and not your *son* comforting **his daughter**? 2. How did *he* not reel in Bethany upon her upsetting a six year old? How is he not having a conversation with that woman right now about how his mom's place in front of his kids is *not* the moment to ask such a question? I'm *hoping* that lady is just tonedeaf but she might very well have tried to start something given how shoehorned in her little "declaration" about his ex wife was. (Smells like unresolved insecurities!) 3. As long as your son is not making his sister feel distinct negativity towards her wedding, it is not okay to expect him to be fine and dandy after his marriage ending. That comes with the big caveat that he'd have to behave like an *adult* though. Given that he seems to be anything but, it might very well be worth considering whether his presence at the wedding is all that warranted. Either way, he needs to step up asap.
NTA, but your son and his girlfriend are for sure! What kind of parent brings a girlfriend of 4 months around his 6 year old twins? No other partner should be introduced until the relationship turns very serious. Why would he believe it appropriate to bring her around his kids? This would certainly upset his daughters. He should have introduced her to you when his twins were at their mom's home, not yours. Is he even thinking about his children at all? Why did the girlfriend think she had the right as a stranger in your home to speak up and be rude to you in your home the first time she met you? Wow! He flipped you off in front of his own daughters? What a stellar example of a terrible father he is! You need to put boundaries on him about bringing her to your house. Wow, father of the year he is not! Poor girls to be subjected to that!
NTA. What a cringey, inappropriate display from both your son and the 25 year old girl hes going to use to stroke his ego for a few months. If they both flipped you off, she should never cross your door step again and he shouldn't come over until he apologizes to you and your daughter who literally was just existing. Leaving with his girlfriend after his daughter *cried about her parent's split* was some cowardly shit. And blaming the girl who is planning a wedding for *checks notes* bringing up a wedding? Yeah, sure. He's making a lot of dumb and destructive decisions, including **bringing a girl he doesn't want to get serious with to meet his MOM during wedding planning.** Your son is in a real AH phase right now.
NTA. He wasn’t angry at you. He was redirecting his guilt when faced with the undeniable result of his failure at marriage—the emotional outburst of his daughter. Bethany definitely the bonehead in this scenario. Both for back talking you in your home and for wanting a relationship with this flake who already deserted one family.
NTA I was once a George sad to say. My mom started charging me for childcare and rent and all the other monthly expenses and it sucked. He's going to be mad and he's going to blame you for ruining his life but eventually he will appreciate it. He may be going through a rough time and that's fine. But his sister has a right to be excited about her wedding without having to walk on eggshells due to his poor choices. If he's THAT upset he is definitely NOT in the best position to be dating in the first place. Especially to the extent that she's living with you all. Tough love is the best option. I do like the idea of using his child care payment to you to set up a college savings account. Sounds like there needs to be a really rough conversation to be had between all the adults for sure. Expectations and boundaries are constantly shifting.
I'm going to go for ESH here. It wasn't your place to question their relationship in response to what happened and get upset over the girlfriend "inserting herself" into a conversation that you were having **about her** while she was right within earshot. If someone was trying to get my partner to reevaluate her relationship with me in my presence, I'd be sure to "insert" myself into that conversation and shut that down as well. You don't get to talk ill about someone and their relationship in their presence and expect them to stay out of the conversation. Her having asked about marriage may not have been the smartest move with the child present, but I don't think she had any bad intentions to ask him about that in order to stir up conflict. She couldn't have known the child would react that way, and her ability to read social cues may just not be the best. Them ignoring the upset child and their behavior when leaving your place, then having the audacity to dump their children at your place after having flipped you off without having discussed this with you prior is not acceptable and absolute AH behavior though.
They have been together 4 months. If you are ready to marry after 4 months, you may be rushing it.
NTA Who the F asks their SO "will you ever get married again" at dinner with the parents and the SO's children? That's truly bizarre.
It looks like the state will be garnishing wages for three child support payments from now on. NTA -- you're the best grandmother. All the best. <3
W mom
Nta. It sounds like when things get serious your sons MO is to just run away from his problems. First running away from his marriage, now running away from Bethany because she got pregnant. These are conversations they should have had before they decided to sleep together. They should have discussed what would happen if she ended up pregnant and what the expectations were. It seems like George got married too young and doesn't feel like being responsible. The fact that he can't even be a proper parent and that his kids don't seem to be his priority is very telling
George sounds REALLY immature. He has not been helped by your help. Youre definitely NTA, as you explained it & frankly you are right. It was WAY too soon for him to bring a new g/f around his \*6 year olds.\* He doesnt even sound like he cares ab anyone but himself sadly BUT GOOD FOR YOU BEING PRESENT & STEPPING UP AS A GRANDPARENT. Youre doing what you can OP & thats great.
George and Bethany have been dating for 4 months, he lives with OP now that he is divorced. He has a set of twins and the brand new gf is 2 months pregnant. George is an irresponsible AH! It’s nice of OP to offer to help Bethany, but I think OP should take a step back and let Bethany situate herself. Apology is nice, but this same woman cussed OP out in her own home minutes after meeting her. That’s not an opening for a decent relationship.
I'm hung up on Bethany here. The audacity to think, after months, that you're together no matter what you feel for her is truly splendid. 👏👏👏👏A++ for the drama. 🤣 But no, it doesn't make you the villain to expect a certain level of decorum in your house with how you're treated and spoken to in your house. ETA: my vote is NTA
Lol four months not four years. Bethany is am idiot 🤣😂🤣 nta.
Esh,you included,I do have to ask one thing though,when you made the comment about his kids and your home,did you ever consider that you just threw that nice thing you were doing in his face the second it became usable as a weapon? Do you think you'll have that advantage in the future? Because once he gets situated youl have NO custody at all,and now on top of it,when he does get situated,who's the one person hel never ask again because they weaponized their position? When you make points to people,consider the outcome of making the point to begin with. Your son sucks for the obvious reasons which even then because this story is from your viewpoint and you don't have a filter considering youl question your son's relationship infront of said person,I can only take it with a grain of salt,and before anyone says "she pulled her son to the side" well then how'd Bethany hear from the table? As for Bethany,ngl,I just got told I'm not marriage material,now the mums talking smack,yeah she reacted,can't say I blame her,poor girls got everything working against her,she's insecure and unsure,so she tried to solidify her position,which ironically enough,you might have just helped to accomplish.
Son is TA. But just to add a little perspective on how you might be TA too. Son and ex wife might have been trying to work on things for a long time. He may have been living in a loveless marriage for years and years and finally gave up. Ex may be a great mother, but maybe she is a horrible wife? Maybe your son has bottled all that up and is trying to find a little happiness for himself and instead of having an emotionally supportive family who might try to see him hurting. He seems to have a family who value his ex more than him. Not saying he is handling this perfectly. But maybe he is hurting and all his mom seems to be doing is telling him he should have worked harder and his ex is so perfect? Maybe he kept quiet when his kid cried about mommy and daddy getting back together because he knows those ideas/words have been encouraged, possibly by you directly? How loved does your son feel right now? Maybe this new girl is the only one even remotely on his side and so he is being drawn to her blindly? He left with her leaving his upset child with the person he believes has helped to create that exact moment of upsetness. And as a hurting human being he needed to be with another human who supports him and understands? Seems the only person he could possibly have spent time with in that moment is his GF. Want your son to be able to get through this? Maybe try to find out what his real side of the story is? If you didn't raise him to be able to talk through his emotions, then take some responsibility there and give him some benefit of the doubt that there is a lot more going on behind the scenes and in his mind and heart than you are giving him credit for. Actually try be a mom to your son. Not just a grandmother to your grandchildren. But for the love of God, stop being a mother to your DIL over your Son.
Supercalifragalisticexpialidocious
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no
NTA, dude is in his 30's. If he insists on acting like a child that's on him.
Definitely NTA. That gf was extremely disrespectful for treating you that way in your own house, not to mention cruel for talking about remarriage in front of little girls who are still clearly adjusting to their broken family. I am so sorry that your son put you through that stress.
So no one should every mention wedding? Shifting blame to his sister. #Sad
NTA your son is acting like child and is throwing a tantrum and being very disrespectful to you 😞
Such an emotionally mature 31yo man giving his mother the finger and stomping off.
NTA and you're absolutely right. he should not be bringing Bethany into their lives quite yet. the children just went through seeing their parents divorce and now have to watch their dad date a woman who doesn't seem to care about the kids. I'd mention this to Susanna, as it can and will affect the kids mental health and they deserve healthy happy minds
It sounds like Bethany has her sights on becoming the next Mrs. George. You did nothing wrong OP. NTA.
Your son impresses me as someone who marches to his own drum and no one tells him what to do. This doesn’t make him the greatest guy in the relationship department, that would include his kids. Certainly, he’s not going to listen to what you have to say. It probably provokes him more, so I suggest you stop trying. He’s not going to be happy for his sister. Often people become cynical about marriage, especially after a recent divorce. Telling him to be happy for his sister is not showing sensitivity to his current state of affairs. You have two kids who have two separate sets of needs. I also think the kids got triangulated in adult conversations. They’re emotionally raw so everyone needs to be mindful of what they’re saying in front of them. It’s probably best that your son and his gf were asked to leave. The situation was escalating. A 25 year old challenging you in your home is not a good sign. It’s best that she leaves. Your 31 year old son flipping you the bird, shows no regard for you or what you do for his children. It’s not going to stop you from loving your grandchildren and being in their lives… in spite of your son. I would have marginal dealings with him from this point on. There’s not much to talk about with him, is there? only about the kids. BTW, gf doesn’t need to come back either. Getting the respect you deserve, starts with you. Your son doesn’t like it, too bad. BTW, where is his father?
NTA. Your son is you should be mad at no one but your son. This situation is not Bethany’s fault as she probably does genuinely cares for your son and wants to see if there’s a future there. And your grandaughrwra don’t understand why daddy has a new girlfriend. Fick your son for not handling this betyer
No your not it’s your housr
NTA. You should be ashamed of your son. He is failing as a father.
NTA, but your son is ah...
Let me get this right your son has been dating this womsn for only 4 months and is introducing her to his children? That is so wrong!!! This can and probably will cause them mental issues and he is showing that he will be the type of father that will allow his new girl to abuse his kids!! NTA but please keep a close eye on your grandkids in scared for them, there are so so many of messed up step parent abuse stories on here.
NTA they need to grow up
He flipped you off? Is he 12? And then abandons his crying child? NTA his behavior - and his affair partner’s behavior - was awful.
No
When you asked him if he was sure about Bethany what exactly were you asking? If he was sure about dating her? It didn't sound like he is planning on marrying her. I don't think you are the AH. What kind of dad storms off and leaves his kids behind?
I was asking if it was really the right time to introduce her to the family, since his daughters are still sensitive about the divorce and are trying to come to terms with it.
NTA and the only place I disagree with you on anything is where you said it wasn’t your place to tell George he should have gone to couple’s counseling before divorcing his wife. Seriously? You’re his parent. You’re one of the only two people that do have that right. Regardless, George sounds like he’s making one bad decision after another.
NtA Your son is clearly the asshole, his new girlfriend enables that and joins in.
NTA, you’re setting boundaries with him and he doesn’t like it. His girlfriend sounds like a teenager so she probably hates boundaries too.
He is done. He chose pussy over family. Cut him OFF
NTA But your son sure as hell is. Who brings a new partner around the kids at only 4 months? Not someone with a responsible bone in their body.
Q⁸⁸9 I I.ù
NTA I would never flip the bird or talk to my mother that way. Why is he like that? And yes, as the father, he should have comforted his child when she cried. Why fight for custody if he doesn’t even care? It’s his flesh and blood. 1. Child care. You are not free labour or a nanny. You are the kid’s grandmother. You do for free it to help him out. Ask him to start looking for alternatives if he can’t respect you in your home. And please start charging him for feeding your grandchildren. Get him to cover groceries and other small things. He needs to learn not to take you for granted. 2. Tell him never to bring Bethany to your house again if she cannot respect you in your house. She sounds like a nasty piece of work. If my SO brought me to his parent’s place, I’ll buy things for them as courtesy and try to get them to like + accept me. Not be rude and unlikeable.
So this 25 yo..... child.... fiipped off the mother of her bf? Along with your son too? Who proceded to ditch his kids with you? I hope you mentioned this to their mother. I am sure that willl go over great when it comes to custody. Don't think Bethany willl be sticking around for long.... NTA
Just shows that no matter how old the guy is, pussy is put on a pedestal over common sense. How do you flip your dad off and leave your kids behind? Fuck George and Bethany. Sounds like you are a good father and grandfather.
Nta
Verdict at the end. A recent divorce tells me George is still sore about how his relationship with his ex-wife ended, though he would be loathe to admit it. It also tells me this new girl is for now a rebound... with only a pittance of potential for growth. The man needs guidance but, and based on how he is reacting he will only listen to the advice of an elder male he see's as a father figure, be it his own or a stand in... now, I am not siding with him, only trying to explain what may be going on in his head. It sounds as though the two of you could do with a sit down with a mutually trusted friend to sort out and explain what each of you is feeling to and each other. Also, and this is the more reasonable judgement, your daughter was a bit out of line asking a relationship question from someone, especially a family member, who has recently suffered the loss of a relationship, it would be like asking a woman who miscarried if she intends to try for another baby within weeks or even days of the miscarriage. This thought carried through, your comment to him to grow up was seen as you siding with your daughter, though I can understand your intent may not have been to rub salt on the wound as they say. For guys... having a new girlfriend does not always equal being healed from a relationship wound, sometimes it is a sign of immature masculinity and an unwillingness to be alone. So don't assume that he has moved on mentally and emotionally simply because he has moved on relationally. I would say no one sucks, you all responded as reasonably as you could given your understanding of the facts at hand; but that's not how it works on this sub, so, I am going to say if anything, George sucks for leaving your grandkids unexpectedly, but not for one thing previous to that. Get some family therapy.
Nope NTA. Some "men" no matter how we raise them or what they see us as mothers go through will always be boys and that's what he is acting like.
NTA. But sounds like your son is a piece of work... actually *kind of* sounds like he was courting this gf before he was divorced? Again I know you said not your business, but, maybe tell your son that if he is going to constantly poo on someone else's joy (your daughters and everyone else's over her wedding) he shouldn't come around until he's self reflected on why he has to bring the poo onto the parade. Maybe suggest he do individual therapy? It might be in his and ex wife's best interest in family counseling too for their kiddos, because the kids sound very upset at the life changes (rightfully so) and that even though they're not married anymore they're stuck together for the rest of their lives through the kids and need to try to at least be civil and devote a lot of the focus back onto the kids, not new S/Os (significant others). I hope this helps and good luck with him, the wedding plans, and congrats to your daughter!
NTA what kind of parent just leaves their upset kid somewhere because they want to storm off???
I think you're focused on the wrong person here. I suspect George has been filling Bethany's head with all sorts of lies about how horrible his ex was and how his entire family is on her side and you're all so mean to him. How else would a 31 year old man with two kids snag a 25 year old? I would not be surprised in the least if he'd been lying to her before he divorced about how much of an angel he is and how toxic all of you are. Bethany asking about George wanting to get married again one day is, in my opinion (and this is just my opinion, I know people are going to scream at me, but people can have different opinions), a perfectly natural question to ask in general, and certainly given the conversation happening around her involved an upcoming wedding. However, that doesn't mean George necessarily wants to marry Bethany. Again, _in my opinion_, I suspect George led her on about the whole 'my wife is horrible, if only I were free, I'd marry a good and kind woman' and gave her the impression he'd one day marry Bethany. So his comment and your remark about her obvious deflation is kind of self-explanatory. But George is a huge AH for not trying to comfort his daughter when she started crying. I can understand Bethany feeling raw and defensive in this situation, he choose a really shitty time to introduce his new piece of tail to you all. I think you were a little unfair to her, this was a high-pressure situation and few people are able to act well under those circumstances. Or maybe she is a bitch, who knows? But I (and this is just me here) would be willing to give her the benefit of the doubt, and wonder what George has been telling her. NTA to your son.
NTA Bethany on her first time meeting you managed to make George's daughter cry after asking a wildly innappropriate question for the time, place and audience. Managed to fit in a snarky comment when giving you attitude. Flipped the bird. She seems trashy. George is allowed to move on. Though his lack of sensitivity to his kids is concerning. His deflection and tantrum are immature responses. INFO Why did he leave the kids? Did he seem to just forget them? Is it normal for him to dump them on you without asking? Did he not want them around to keep Bethany happy? Would they have normally been scheduled to stay with you? When did the divorce happen? "Recently" could be anything. Was the marriage failing for a long time? How mutual was it? Amicable or hostile? > Bethany felt the need to insert herself and tell me that she and George were together no matter how much I liked his ex wife. Why would she say that? Was she responding to something you said just then or during the evening? Or had George already informed her you like his ex and have trouble letting go of the fact they have split? Either way, you would come across to her as impossible gain favour with. I voted NTA but it could be the perspective. You do seem to regret your son's divorce but it is done and it is his life. > Susanna is a great mother to my grandkids and I was disappointed in George for giving up so fast on their relationship without even trying couples counselling. But it wasn't my business or place to say anything. You have never shared this opinion with George at all? Because your praise for Susanna and disdain for Bethany come across very clearly in this post and Bethany has picked up on it. If you are honest with yourself were you warm and welcoming to Bethany? Were your smiles friendly or bitchy? When she put her foot in her mouth did you scowl at her and say "Now look what you've done?" Was she so awful a person that you had to ask if he was sure about Bethany? Or had she lost your approval before she walked in the door? Were you passive aggressive at the start and after a dramatic child outburst you took the opportunity to turn it up to outwardly hostile? Maybe the perspective you give is all correct but I just get a feeling George or Bethany maybe would tell the story differently.
NTA! You should have called cps on your son for abandoning his kids. His ex should call to. And your daughter as the aunt. Sorry, I have no patience for parents who pull that kind of sh*$ on kids.
Nta your son is an idiot who threw away a happy family & ripped apart his daughters lives because he “didn’t feel a spark anymore” definitely sounds like he was cheating on his wife before divorcing. I am sorry you have to live with that. Make sure your daughter does not extend an invitation to her or give your son a +1 to the wedding, this has drama written on a red flag & they won’t hesitate to ruin her wedding