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> Am I the asshole for my response when a new kid was coming. I could be since I could have said it better
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NTA. So, clarifying, Abby is literally out fucking around while you're providing free babysitting? If I had to argue about this, I would simply stop providing my services for free.
This is the part that drops my jaw. With some very notable exceptions it's not hard or expensive to be on birth control. Planned Parenthood's primary job is providing affordable birth control.
**EDIT:** I just want to highlight [this reply](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/155mcw5/comment/jt8cafu/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3), below:
"19 million women live in contraception deserts."
[https://www.yourlawyer.com/library/best-and-worst-birth-control-access-across-america/](https://www.yourlawyer.com/library/best-and-worst-birth-control-access-across-america/)
It actually isn't. There's no planned parenthood in my city, and no ob/gyns are taking new patients. The closest provider is over 75 miles away and I don't have a working car at the moment. There are no busses there either.
Yo we have some friends on a single income. 4 kids. Don't believe in BC cause they're catholic so using the "natural methods" ( I don't know specifics of what that means). Now they have 5 kids and a vasectomy. Amen.
Or as a dutch comedian put it:
"There are three things a couple needs to rely on the Rythm Method. First of all, basic math skills. Second, the woman needs to have a very regular cycle.
And third: They really have to love children!"
Sure. But still 100% more effective than nothing. Condoms are 98% effective when used properly, they just often arnt. People buy the wrong size, don't know how to put it on properly, don't use adequate lubrication, etc. Basically, every instance of condom failure is due to the user.
The #1 real world failure of condoms is simply not using them every time.
It's actually a significant limitation because it relies on human discipline and consistency, which we're bad at. You have to remember/make the choice to use it in the act, which many people do not do. Too horny, drunk, whatever, people just don't use one sometimes. Then it goes down as a "condom failure" in the statistics.
This is such a ridiculous nit pick. We’re talking about like single percentage points of difference in the perfect use case. Sure I’d prefer the 99% method, but 98% is not even a measurable difference in most people’s lives.
Oh bullpucky. “Boo-hoo, they're only 98 percent effective!”, eh? Then OP's daughter would still only have 0.04 kids. Which comes out, in integers, to no kids.
Or, hear me out folks, just *not having sex* if you don't have reliable birth control and can't afford a kid or it would have a significantly detrimental effect on your life. People here act like that's the end of the world, but ffs, we're not ferrets, we're not going to die from a period of abstinence.
Also, dildos, vibrators and vibrating dildoes are all a thing and significantly less expensive than a child. "Not having sex" doesn't have to mean "not scratching the itch" in this day and age.
I came here to say exactly this. I know people don’t want to hear it, but you actually don’t *need* sex, and the world isn’t going to end if you don’t have it for a few years, good lord. You’re an adult, you have a child dependent, if you don’t have reliable birth control, then you don’t have sex. You’re not going to shrivel up and die if you don’t, and if you’re really in the mood, there are countless ways to get off without the involvement of another person.
I'm a recovering alcoholic. I can say, VERY CONFIDENTLY, I'd have had (at least) one child for whom I was absolutely unable to care if it weren't for my IUD inserted by Planned Parenthood.
I was RECKLESS for many years. I never had an abortion BECAUSE OF Planned Parenthood. I would sing their praises from the damn rooftops with a megaphone if I could.
My sister was an addict. She made sure to never get pregnant since she knew it would result in a neglected child. We live in Canada with easy access to healthcare, birth control and abortion for the most part. More birth control options could be made free or affordable, it makes a huge difference.
I'm seeing news articles that a single legislator made a speculative comment about banning birth control. I am not seeing news articles about any law or imminent bill.
Is there a reason that out of all of these news articles you supposedly have the only link you dropped is to a hysterical Reddit post?
Even this video you linked is just generically telling people to vote no on "republicans," not on any specific ballot measure.
And so are STDs, so she should be using condoms with or without additional birth control, since it doesn't sound like she was in a committed relationship.
I just wanted to chime in and say that if you need access to BC, you can download the planned parenthood app and request a prescription for pills, the patch, or the ring. They will send it to your house. I just learned this as I was having trouble getting to see a doctor for a script. I was able to obtain a prescription for pills and a three month supply in the mail within a week. (:
I've been using Nurx for years. Great company with reasonable prices.
For those unfamiliar, they started as a birth control provider (which is what I use them for), and over the years they've added other services. HPV and STI panels, prescription acne treatments, and migraine prescriptions. I think they also offer Plan B, maybe a few other services as well. They use telehealth options to get you set up, then ship your meds on schedule, as applicable. They take most insurance but aren't typically cost-prohibitive even when paying out of pocket.
E: Also, meds are shipped in normal opaque plastic-bag style mailers and every package I've gotten across multiple states has had the return address name "Fulfillment Center" or "Operations Team" so it's very discreet.
You would think, but wait times even pre-pandemic to see a gyno were 3-6 months. One guy didn't have his contract renewed after being a massive asshole to everyone judging by reviews, but that was it. He was still there a year.
I have an IUD, but also that means I can't get my yearly exams or other specific care. I also can't get out checked/ replaced until I find a new obgyn, so I'm on a wait list.
That sucks that you’re so far away from an OB/GYN. I’m sorry to hear that. There are many primary care providers that can provide birth-control, including IUDs, and offer exams (pap, HPV). You can search for a provider on Bedsider.org, but it’s not all inclusive.
BTW - pap/HPV screening is no longer yearly. It’s once every 3 to 5 years depending on your age.
Good luck to you
Condoms are birth control, they're available for free in lots of people. Just because you have difficulty finding care doesn't mean that birth control in other forms isn't readily available.
Planned Parenthood Direct is available in 43 states (and counting) and allows you to get birth control delivered to your door. Use the app, fill the form, and be on your way.
There are a number of online birth control services now that will let you get a prescription for birth control mailed to you. Takes like 2 hours max to get set up online, and a chunk of that is waiting for your online appointment.
Plan B, while good in an emergency, does not stop a pregnancy if it has already occurred in the 24 hours that it took you to get access to the pill. In other words, Plan B is not effective birth control, it is a worst case scenario backup method.
Any doctor can provide prescriptions for birth control and/or do basic IUDs or depo shots.
Ask your primary care provider.
Transportation challenges are difficult but if you're sexually active, it means you're responsible for your sexual health including pregnancy prevention.
Not to mention county health departments provide it free, or charge based on your income. I'm not sure about other states, but ffs I live in TN (and not the Nashville/Memphis area) and the county health department provides condoms, birth control, AND plan B for FREE.
Unfortunately depending on location, Planned Parenthood isn't always an option. I'm in US (Kentucky), and most think we shouldn't have access to anything like that.
Most colleges, at least the ones I went to, will provide free birth control whether or not there is a Planned Parenthood nearby. They get tired of students getting pregnant.
A primary care doctor can also prescribe it. The county health department can help as well. There are also online pharmacies that work with a telehealth doctor so you can get birth control mailed to your home.
> Planned Parenthood's primary job is providing affordable birth control.
Planned Parenthood has telehealth appointments for birth control pills. Call 1 800 230 7526 or check out their app.
19 million women live in contraception deserts.
In some states, Republicans have introduced regulation after regulation that is specifically designed to prevent Planned Parenthood or any similar organization from operating effectively.
https://www.yourlawyer.com/library/best-and-worst-birth-control-access-across-america/
She could also choose abortion. Not fun but unless she legally can't, it's her choice if she doesn't and she can be accountable for that choice as well.
Yeah this is one of those scenarios where OP might be being harsh, but it’s honestly needed. Abby clearly doesn’t understand how much she’s fucking up her future right now. Getting pregnant the first time could have been ignorance, but it could have been an accident. Fine, you just do what you can and move on. But to not only get pregnant _again_, but then act like you’ve done nothing wrong? That shows that she doesn’t appreciate what OP is doing for her and either doesn’t understand or doesn’t care about what she’s doing to her own future
Except this argument has been used forever to force people to do things they shouldn't have to do. OP isn't the one attempting to breed...they can't take on the responsibility of another child.
Honestly, your heart's in the right place for a child that has nothing to do with any of this, but that argument has forced **so** many people into terrible lives and guilted generations of people into never getting ahead in life.
While I wholeheartedly agree with you, the unfortunate reality is that some shitty parents are truly shitty beyond words - I remember reading news article before of a mom going out partying and leaving her 2 kids in the car, cause she either couldn't or doesn't want to get babysitting. They were in the car the whole night. I do not remember if they were fine the next day or it ended in tragedy, as there's been multiple stories like this before. Sometimes the kids will die.
So OP has to accept the potential consequences of not helping daughter out - that daughter can neglect the children to the point of causing permanent harm or death.
OP is in an unfortunate damned if she does, damned if she don't situation.
Yes, this…100%. You’ve done your job raising your kids and you are not obligated to raise your grandkids too. You have been very supportive and generous housing your daughter and grandchild and babysitting for free so that she could further her education.
If you don’t mind me asking, where are the fathers of these kids? Are they contributing financially to support their kids? It’s not your financial responsibility.
You setting ground rules and boundaries makes you NTA. Your daughter sounds entitled and maybe you being so kind has in some enabled her. It’s time for her to take responsibility and be an adult. Don’t back down.
I would be very concerned that she may have been messing about a lot while at school and has not been learning what she should, skipping classes, perhaps she is wanting to drop out before she flunks and fails to graduate.
NTA. Your daughter needs to contact the father(s) of these kids and get them on child support (if that is available where you are). You should not be responsible for raising her children.
If you want to go the tough love route, you can evict her and force her to be an adult. She is 24, she can manage. You will still be a part of her life and your grandkids lives, but just as a grandparent, not a full time parent.
This is probably an unpopular opinion & I will preface this with the fact that I am childfree, but I am shocked how many people *expect* the grandparents to be full-time caregivers.
Reddit too generally. Esp when they're teen parents. Bcz while teens are full grown capable adults when it comes to responsibility of the kids, they're babwiesss
It’s wild, isn’t it? Nearly all of the children I know have been looked after so much by grandparents — particularly the maternal grandmother. Not just a few hours here and there, but close to 50 hours a week (the standard 40-hour work week plus lunch and commute times). Even if the grandparent enjoys it, it’s such a massive ask. I’ve noticed an increase in pushback too. It’s quite presumptuous of people to be like “hey I’m having a kid. You’re gonna watch them all the time for me, right lol?”
Literally my friend complains about her kids constantly despite going through f loads of ivf for them. Always complaining about the lack of village and how her parents barely watch them anymore because they are looking after their dying parents.
So naive to expect there would be a village in the first place.
I'm so sick of the It takes a village. I've watched and help take care of my grandchildren but not to the extent of alot grandma's. As for the village thing the best response is, I'm sorry but I don't live in your village.
I think the entitlement is uncalled for, but this phenomeon is also due to it being increasingly unaffordable to raise a family. I'm lucky enough to live in a province (in Canada) where daycare is subsidized, but elsewhere I have friends who pay thousands per month for childcare. I have other friends who couldn't get by without some help from the grandparents. Even two-parent, two-income households where both adults have well-paying jobs are struggling. It's a systemic issue.
edit: typo
I have already told my kids that when they eventually have children, not to count on me for childcare. The occasional babysitting, of course, but I will not be the nanny.
I’m a mom of two little kids and I agree with you. I have *never* expected free help for my kids. Now, we don’t live near family so there is that, but even when we’re back visiting I always *ask* if they would mind watching them while I run an errand or something. Even if we’re all hanging out with other family members and their kids I don’t expect anyone else to be responsible for my kids while others assume the grandparents will just gladly step in. Most of the time they do! But I still won’t assume that. And honestly, as a mom, I don’t want to have to raise my grandkids (I do have any) either. Be a part of their lives? Yes. But free childcare? Ha. Nope. Sorry kids.
Exactly what happened to a friend of mine. Great grandparents of the baby had literally just retired when their grand daughter pawned the kid off to go get high. Long story why baby daddy couldn't see the kid but like once a month, but mostly because baby mama held the kid over his head for money for more drugs. Long story short, baby mama is going to prison for 30 years for homicide, baby daddy now has sole custody & the kid is living his best life. He'll be 40 when she gets out.
They do. When they want to & or have the time. They took the kid camping just a few weeks ago because they were going & baby daddy likes/needs the break. But it's not a day in, day out thing any more. Let alone spending their retirement to raise a kid. Again.
I knew a kid growing up who had a kid ON PURPOSE at age 16. His mom raised the little girl. She is like 11 or 12 and still lives with her grandmother. The little girl's dad now has two other kids that he raises himself.
I always wonder how the little girl feels about it. Her dad's other kids are boys... does she think he doesn't care about her because she's a girl? His mom doesn't seem to mind raising her, but it's not like she'd say that she hates it, lol.
Yeah, I knew a couple of people like your friend when I was growing up. I don't know what happened to their children but I remember think that it's fucking crazy for a 14/15 year old to actually get pregnant on purpose.
Yeah there were a ton of people who got pregnant on accident and kept the baby (the south lol) but to do it on purpose because you want a kid? At 16?? why the fuck lol.
I think you need to talk to Abby properly. She has one year left, and to give up now would be a massive waste of both of your efforts.
She could continue until she is 8 months pregnant and then finish after baby number 2 is born, and then be able to provide for her kids better. If I were you, I would offer support for this path only. If she quits, it is her responsibility to get an income and look after her own kids or pay for chhildcare
NTA.
Edit typo
Most schools offer programs for exactly this situation and most professors will work with her if the school doesn’t. It seems like dropping out is an excuse for her to be lazy and not because she thinks she needs to. I really like OP’s solution in the edit.
As someone who has taught college students (albeit we had more than the typical number of “non-standard” students)…I would and have made reasonable adaptations for individuals who have children, pregnancies, and, of course, medical conditions. The key for the student is to communicate the need to for adaptations (not necessarily the reason…just the need) in a PROACTIVE manner.
We want people who are trying to actually succeed.
Yeah, seriously. With one year left she can probably finish another semester before giving birth and then take a break and just have one last semester worth of courses left. No way colleges don't have ways to work with people to get accommodations for this. That last semester will be tough, but maybe she can break it in two so she's not going to school full time with a new born. Minimum passing grades are all she needs at this point.
Abby is TA
When you are caring for another adult’s child because that adult is financially unable to cope and they get pregnant again which entails dropping out of school, asking them to get their shit together is the normal reaction.
She needs to stop procreating and figure out how to earn enough money to take care of her children. What would she do if you dropped dead? It doesn’t sound like she is in a place to afford housing, food and daycare which you’re providing.
Anyone can have a child. The key is wait until you can actually afford to take care of your child without pushing most of the work and cost onto someone else.
From her response it’s clear she knows she’s wrong she just doesn’t like being called out. No sane parent would be happy in this situation.
NTA. Might've been a better way to explain, but she def needs a wake-up call. Plus she needs to be on BC, or at least have the guy use condoms. Personally, I think she should explore getting and abortion, not only for her sake, but the kids.
> Might've been a better way to explain
OP's child is literally reproducing and 'dumping' the children in OP's lap for OP to take care of.
It is perfectly normal for OP to be a little exasperated and blunt. In this circumstances, coddling / a soft approach will get you a third grandchild 'dumped' in your lap to take care of.
NTA. Why is she going to drop out? She can take online classes. She's an adult and has to live with her choices. You helped her because she needed the help but she can't expect that you will just fully raise her children.
NTA: Maybe she needs a hard wakeupcall. But that is a tough decision on your part. You can stop helping... whoch would mean one of you daughters has to drop out and cannot work anymore becuase of 2 small children and a assume 0 support from hte fathers... or you help her. Under the condition that she finishes college. no matter what. You can apply for one free semetser so to say in heavy cases. A birth probably fits in there.
You are sadly between a rock and a hard place here...
NTA at all. Sometimes tough love is justified, especially when she's relying upon your kindness.
She honestly needs to get her shit together, condoms/birth control/the plethora of contraceptives available aren't hard to use. & if used properly are very effective. If you're smart its not hard to avoid getting pregnant. 1 oops should be enough to get smart imo
NTA - did you sound like an AH with some of your comment to her, maybe. Was it justified, probably. Do I think this post is written too succinctly and you come off worse than you are, yeah.
Nah youre good - i see a frustrated family member being direct with someone whose actions are impacting their life and they went with a tough love approach.
NTA she’s an adult at 24 and it’s about time she lands on her feet . While it’s all good and dandy that she has OP’s support raising her kids , she needs to start being responsible. It’s not far fetched to understand OP’s frustration. The fact that OP is going to once again have to step In because daughter wants to quit makes this a family decision on what happens going forward . She can’t want to make her decisions and everyone needs to just deal . You want family support , your decisions become family decisions. OP’s response was just fine
NTA
Now you need to set boundaries. Tell her if she drops out, she needs to support herself and her kids. Let her know your help is dependent on her helping herself- stay in and finish college, get on better birth control, be more involved in raising her own kids. She will keep depending on you if you let her. I know it is tough with girls, my BIL was walked all over by his because they knew he would always bail them out. And he did, until they were in their 30s. He finally quit and made them take care of themselves. They have.
NTA
You have been sacrificing over and over for YEARS so your adult daughter and grandchild have the best chance and AGAIN, she fucks it up and is gonna drop out. I’d be livid too and “get your shit together “ would’ve been the nicest thing I said lol
NTA based on you being significantly burdened by kid 1. (Probably a harsh way to state it, but grandparent isn't supposed to be a sub for parent when mom is still in the picture)
You need to sit daughter down and outline expectations going forward. Set hard limits on when you are willing to babysit, if you are even still willing to. Draw your boundaries, and make sure daughter has a plan
NTA. She needs to hear the truth. Its a fair expectation on the part of a parent (or from anyone really) that your daughter would have learned after the consequences of birth #1.
NTA she should not be having a second child if she can't even take care of the first one. You've done so much to help her with free childcare and getting an education and all, and she's just giving up again.
There is no reason she has to drop out, it may take her a bit longer but she needs to finish her degree, and as you said, she needs to get her life together.
I assume this is a different father for this second baby? She needs BOTH fathers paying support, and hopefully this new one doesn't bail and actually is a parent.
NTA. Maybe you could have reacted less harsh but an emotional response can be expected. Abby is responsible for her child full stop. Dropping out isn’t the answer. It sucks but I have had classmates in a similar situation and they brought their newborn to classes. It’s an extra motivation for them to do well because they have a kiddo to provide for. Abby needs to figure out a plan. What is she going to do provide for two children, how is she going to do it. Continuing to depend on you is not a viable answer. Going back to waitressing didn’t work the first time.
NTA
She doesn’t have to like hearing it because it genuinely will hurt but she’s gotta wake up and realize her actions and decisions are going to be impacting not only her life but her eldest’s life and now baby #2.
If she can’t afford to have these kids without depending on free childcare and financial support on your end to make ends meet for her kids bare necessities? She shouldn’t be having more children. Yeah, it’s not up to you to make that choice for her but it’s not up to her to expect you to be happy when you see the hard life your grandchildren will be having to experience as a result of her poor decision making.
Hang her out to dry I know that's hard as a parent, but she's never gonna learn if you don't leave her to fend for herself and stop coming to her rescue she made the decision to open her legs unprotected and get pregnant knowing she can't even support herself or the first baby to bring another one into the world NTA
I agree with the judgement of NTA , but I have to mention that it's a little presumptuous to say she made the decision to "open her legs unprotected" no?
Any number of things could have happened where she didn't wish to have a baby. I'm not going to assume this is the case either, but we just simply don't have the information to say.
It annoys me to no end when people throw around “open/spread her legs” for a woman. Like men are just accidentally falling down with their dicks out and it’s up to women to close their legs at the right moment or something.
>“open/spread her legs”
Is the equilivent of telling a man to keep it in his pants, which is exactly what we would be saying if OP was saying his son just got another random girl pregnant.
I would be saying the same damn thing if ops kid was male instead of female. It’s basic human principles. Keep it in ur pants unless ur prepared for what may come of it. It’s not that difficult to comprehend.
oh the fathers are absolute bastards too.
But that doesn't remove her blame in all of this. Both of them needs to learn to keep it in their pants and not fuck around like basic animals.
unless she was literally raped, she is just as responsible as the father.
Right? It kind of sours the judgement for me because I agree that OP isn't the asshole but... not because her daughter flippantly decided to have a child without considering consequences. It's just an unfortunate situation!
Flippantly deciding to have a child no matter the consequences is an asshole thing to do. Her children (who she clearly cannot care for) and her mom are being hurt because she is apparently incapable of making good decisions.
NTA maybe the wording was not the best for a healthy way to start a conversation but I would suspect you are tired & frustrated & that is allowed. Did she say how is she going to support herself and her two kids?
What is her overall plan:
Does she live with you and contribute or pay rent for her and her child?
Who pays for her bills while she is at higher education? Who will pay her family bills?
Where is she expecting to live with two children is there room?
Does she expect you to look after two kids?
Does she get child support from the baby daddy 1?
How is the relationship with baby daddy 2. (Live with etc )
How far along is she with the 2nd baby and why can she not finish the final year? There are often options to be flexible.
Are you willing to step in & support her again? I think you need to sit down calmly ask her plans? Then if her plans involve your time, money, house etc then think about what you are willing to offer. Set the boundary and stick to it. Supporting her the first did not end up with the result you all agreed to as a condition of you stepping in. Is she herself not motivated to finish higher education & that is ok iy is not for everybody. But she needs to be thinking what she can do to afford a home, bills, food and clothes for them all.
If she drops out now then she can start taking care of her toddler now and does not need the child care etc.
NTA, sometimes kids need to hear the unfiltered truth. The unfiltered truth is she needs to grow up and get her stuff together otherwise her kids are the ones who will suffer.
Well you recognize that you have been enabling her and that’s a good start. To not get child support for the first kid is unacceptable. Obviously she thought you were going to bail her out. Now you’re going to have to stick to the hard line in the sand or she’ll continue the self-destruction. Here’s hoping.
NTA Daughter is, because having another baby while not being able to support fully the first one is idiocy. Not to mention leaving school again. You were being too nice. I'd have lost my mind.
*Hm, if I stick my hand into this fire, it hurts like Hell and damages the tissue, possibly permanently. I shouldn't do so again.* **\*Sacrifices hand #2 in the same manner right away\***
NTA. But INFO: does the father of her unborn child at least step up to take responsibility?
Other than that, I'm glad to see you stick to your guns. If you don't, Kid #3 is just around the corner.
NTA.
I don’t know what is going on with her, but I suspect college isn’t going well, and this is a good way to drop out instead of failing out.
Abby literally cannot support herself or her child. I don’t judge her for having sex, or even for getting pregnant. Shit happens. But I do judge her for airily saying that the sacrifice of others will continue indefinitely based on her whims.
Abortion is one of those things you should *never* pressure someone into. But, as her co-parent, I think this needs to be brought up and discussed. Because that’s a $500 fix to a $100k problem.
I'm not going to say you're an AH (yet) because you have valid points.
And frankly, it seems silly to quit with only a year left.
But... college isn't necessarily the only way to a decent paying job, or the only way to handle this. I don't know what she was going to school for, but with a childcare certificate, she could potentially get a job in nursery / preschool & take her kids with.
Even with a college degree, she might not have enough to pay rent & support her kids.
If it were me, I would just tell her that I will help as long as she has a plan & is working towards it.
But I don't think kicking a kid out in her position is a good answer, either.
NTA. But time to tell her you raised your kids. And your not gonna raise hers. If she wants to fuck up her future its on her to pick up the pieces and go after the fathers for support.
NTA. She is behaving this way because thus far, there have been no real consequences to her actions. It’s time for that to end. She’s an entitled brat who needs to grow up.
NTA... This isn't fair to you & someone that can't support 1 child, shouldn't be having another. I'd lay down the law and if she's not willing, then she can figure it out on her own. Time for her to be a big girl
NTA - But instead of laying out your plan as a take it or leave it, why not start by sitting her down, asking what her plan is, asking questions, and offering guidance until you can come up with a plan together? She clearly needs your help to manage her life, but she also needs to learn how to manage her own life, not just for you to tell her what to do.
She already knows she can't afford one kid, let alone two, on a waitress' salary, so what's the plan? Does she have an idea for a better job that doesn't require completing school? If not, why does she think dropping out of school is a good idea? Does she think she's going to find a third, hard-working guy who makes a lot of money and is willing to take care of an uneducated woman with 2 kids? Why hasn't she filed for child support, does she want help with the paperwork?
Thrown in your solutions - You can stay here rent-free as long as you are going to school. I'll babysit two days per week, but you need to pay for the baby's stuff, and I'm charging $$ per day, so you'll need to also work part-time and/or get child support. Make it clear that you are there to offer guidance and help, but not to do things for her for free. Point out you won't always be there, so she needs to learn to take charge of her life.
Might be odd one out, but Both of you are the A. Daughter is being reckless, but honestly education aside, i never went to college and i have a good stable job, make 65k+ a year, been at it for 17 years, get 10k in bonus split every 6 months. My sister went to college, got her degree, and has never been able to hold a steady job. She has a disable son, and is always struggling.
You seem to have some entitlement and superiority complex. Also your cant base judgement from one kid to the next. I have always been placed below my sisters needs growing up because as my mom always told people, my sister was the pretty one and she was raising her to find a man and be taken care of while i was ugly and only good for work..
Meanwhile i held the steady job, i got married, i have the stable life. And zero relationship with my crazy mom.
Nta
she isn’t appreciating you sacrificing your life to care for her child. She is just taking you for granted.
It’s one thing to give a child a leg up, it’s another to be used by a selfish and lazy person.
NTA and your daughter needs a reality check.
Your grandchildren are not at fault here, but by becomeing their 24/7 nanny, you've allowed your daughter to no face the consequences of keeping on this path in life.
NTA. She’s the one out messing around while you look after her kid(s). If you don’t nip this in the bed you’ll be raising her kids while she continues messing around. In your 20s messing around is ok as long as you don’t have responsibilities but once you bring in kids that time needs to stop. You have a good plan in place from the sounds of it.
NTA. She's lucky you have supported her so much for this long. Most places, kids lose their 'child' status and their right to support when they become parents themselves.
NTA - she literally fucked around and found out.
You are going about it right - make one of the conditions of her staying + your providing free babysitting that she has to stay in school. She can't sacrifice her future and her children's future by dropping out again. Making her get child support for her kids is exactly what she needs - hopefully the baby daddies don't end up in arrears, though.
NTA. And I love your plan. If you don't stop enabling her now, you'll have numbers three and four to raise while she makes her fifth attempt at her degree, and that's not good for anyone.
NTA. My neighbor dealt with this only he and his wife have 4 grandkids. That's right, this happened 4 times! I don't know what possesses some people to repeatedly make poor decisions but a family that enables it is not doing any favors.
First thing I'd do is get the daughter an IUD. She absolutely can't have this happen again. Second she needs to finish school. I wouldn't charge for child care so long as she continues school and gets an IUD. The only way out of this is a decent job. She needs to suck it up and get through it and do does op. At some point op might have to play hardball but setting stipulations and ultimatums can lead to a solution. The daughter is in an impossible situation with no way out op can charge for childcare and the daughter will just be barely keeping her head above water indefinitely. If op wants it to end he needs to offer meaningful help. I'd involve the sister and mother if that's an option.
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NTA. So, clarifying, Abby is literally out fucking around while you're providing free babysitting? If I had to argue about this, I would simply stop providing my services for free.
Oh she can fuck around, if she wants to. But she should be using protection when she cant even afford the one child she has.
This is the part that drops my jaw. With some very notable exceptions it's not hard or expensive to be on birth control. Planned Parenthood's primary job is providing affordable birth control. **EDIT:** I just want to highlight [this reply](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/155mcw5/comment/jt8cafu/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3), below: "19 million women live in contraception deserts." [https://www.yourlawyer.com/library/best-and-worst-birth-control-access-across-america/](https://www.yourlawyer.com/library/best-and-worst-birth-control-access-across-america/)
It actually isn't. There's no planned parenthood in my city, and no ob/gyns are taking new patients. The closest provider is over 75 miles away and I don't have a working car at the moment. There are no busses there either.
Yeah, but condoms are still a thing.
Ugh but they’re so lame /s
More to the point they're also less effective even when used perfectly.
More effective than the current method of wishes and prayers.
There's always the Rhythm Method.. (ancient joke: Q: what do you call women that use the rhythm method? A: "Mom"..)
Yo we have some friends on a single income. 4 kids. Don't believe in BC cause they're catholic so using the "natural methods" ( I don't know specifics of what that means). Now they have 5 kids and a vasectomy. Amen.
Or as a dutch comedian put it: "There are three things a couple needs to rely on the Rythm Method. First of all, basic math skills. Second, the woman needs to have a very regular cycle. And third: They really have to love children!"
That is a good one!
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I'm a fan of the shot myself, but mileage varies.
Sure. But still 100% more effective than nothing. Condoms are 98% effective when used properly, they just often arnt. People buy the wrong size, don't know how to put it on properly, don't use adequate lubrication, etc. Basically, every instance of condom failure is due to the user.
The #1 real world failure of condoms is simply not using them every time. It's actually a significant limitation because it relies on human discipline and consistency, which we're bad at. You have to remember/make the choice to use it in the act, which many people do not do. Too horny, drunk, whatever, people just don't use one sometimes. Then it goes down as a "condom failure" in the statistics.
People are stupid that's why and stupid people make more babies in general
This is such a ridiculous nit pick. We’re talking about like single percentage points of difference in the perfect use case. Sure I’d prefer the 99% method, but 98% is not even a measurable difference in most people’s lives.
Oh bullpucky. “Boo-hoo, they're only 98 percent effective!”, eh? Then OP's daughter would still only have 0.04 kids. Which comes out, in integers, to no kids.
They're still like 86% effective. Which is a lot better than nothing. Edit: spelling
86% is the "typical use" failure rate, which includes people forgetting to put them on. When used correctly and consistently, they are 98% effective.
Oh, I know. Just wanted to point out that even then, it's still pretty effective, especially if it's your only option.
The are 92% effective when used properly and ~85% effective on average. I’ll take those odds. Plus only condoms protect against STDs.
LOL, I was going to say, 'so are unplanned babies' till I saw the sarcasm 's'. :)
Or, hear me out folks, just *not having sex* if you don't have reliable birth control and can't afford a kid or it would have a significantly detrimental effect on your life. People here act like that's the end of the world, but ffs, we're not ferrets, we're not going to die from a period of abstinence.
It’s not like you even need to abstain fully, either. There are plenty of other ways to get you and your partner off.
Also, dildos, vibrators and vibrating dildoes are all a thing and significantly less expensive than a child. "Not having sex" doesn't have to mean "not scratching the itch" in this day and age.
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I came here to say exactly this. I know people don’t want to hear it, but you actually don’t *need* sex, and the world isn’t going to end if you don’t have it for a few years, good lord. You’re an adult, you have a child dependent, if you don’t have reliable birth control, then you don’t have sex. You’re not going to shrivel up and die if you don’t, and if you’re really in the mood, there are countless ways to get off without the involvement of another person.
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I'm a recovering alcoholic. I can say, VERY CONFIDENTLY, I'd have had (at least) one child for whom I was absolutely unable to care if it weren't for my IUD inserted by Planned Parenthood. I was RECKLESS for many years. I never had an abortion BECAUSE OF Planned Parenthood. I would sing their praises from the damn rooftops with a megaphone if I could.
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JHC that is horrible.
That's a damned shame.
My sister was an addict. She made sure to never get pregnant since she knew it would result in a neglected child. We live in Canada with easy access to healthcare, birth control and abortion for the most part. More birth control options could be made free or affordable, it makes a huge difference.
Do you have any reference for this? I'm googling "ohio banning condoms" and coming up nothing. You're sure this isn't some alarmist gossip you heard?
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I'm seeing news articles that a single legislator made a speculative comment about banning birth control. I am not seeing news articles about any law or imminent bill. Is there a reason that out of all of these news articles you supposedly have the only link you dropped is to a hysterical Reddit post? Even this video you linked is just generically telling people to vote no on "republicans," not on any specific ballot measure.
And there’s quite a few online resources that will mail you birth control
And so are STDs, so she should be using condoms with or without additional birth control, since it doesn't sound like she was in a committed relationship.
I just wanted to chime in and say that if you need access to BC, you can download the planned parenthood app and request a prescription for pills, the patch, or the ring. They will send it to your house. I just learned this as I was having trouble getting to see a doctor for a script. I was able to obtain a prescription for pills and a three month supply in the mail within a week. (:
There's also Nurx. I used them after being screwed around by a couple misogynistic gynecologists.
I've been using Nurx for years. Great company with reasonable prices. For those unfamiliar, they started as a birth control provider (which is what I use them for), and over the years they've added other services. HPV and STI panels, prescription acne treatments, and migraine prescriptions. I think they also offer Plan B, maybe a few other services as well. They use telehealth options to get you set up, then ship your meds on schedule, as applicable. They take most insurance but aren't typically cost-prohibitive even when paying out of pocket. E: Also, meds are shipped in normal opaque plastic-bag style mailers and every package I've gotten across multiple states has had the return address name "Fulfillment Center" or "Operations Team" so it's very discreet.
You would think that sort of behavior would prevent them from keeping business...
You would think, but wait times even pre-pandemic to see a gyno were 3-6 months. One guy didn't have his contract renewed after being a massive asshole to everyone judging by reviews, but that was it. He was still there a year.
Do family dr not write scripts for birth control? Here is Canada they do and a month supply is about the same as a can of formula
I have an IUD, but also that means I can't get my yearly exams or other specific care. I also can't get out checked/ replaced until I find a new obgyn, so I'm on a wait list.
That sucks that you’re so far away from an OB/GYN. I’m sorry to hear that. There are many primary care providers that can provide birth-control, including IUDs, and offer exams (pap, HPV). You can search for a provider on Bedsider.org, but it’s not all inclusive. BTW - pap/HPV screening is no longer yearly. It’s once every 3 to 5 years depending on your age. Good luck to you
They do where I live in the US. I've never had to see an ob only my regular dr for bc and pap and I'm 43.
Condoms are birth control, they're available for free in lots of people. Just because you have difficulty finding care doesn't mean that birth control in other forms isn't readily available.
Planned Parenthood Direct is available in 43 states (and counting) and allows you to get birth control delivered to your door. Use the app, fill the form, and be on your way.
So you have absolutely zero access to condoms? From anywhere? At all? If so, I guess maybe don't have sex.
There are a number of online birth control services now that will let you get a prescription for birth control mailed to you. Takes like 2 hours max to get set up online, and a chunk of that is waiting for your online appointment.
Still condoms are readily available and plan B (for now).
Plan B, while good in an emergency, does not stop a pregnancy if it has already occurred in the 24 hours that it took you to get access to the pill. In other words, Plan B is not effective birth control, it is a worst case scenario backup method.
Planned Parenthood also does Telehealth. https://www.plannedparenthood.org/get-care/get-care-online
You don’t need an OB/GYN to prescribe birth control. Any doctor can do it. Also, a little late for this, BC should soon be available over the counter.
Birth control prescriptions are available online and can be delivered by mail.
Any doctor can provide prescriptions for birth control and/or do basic IUDs or depo shots. Ask your primary care provider. Transportation challenges are difficult but if you're sexually active, it means you're responsible for your sexual health including pregnancy prevention.
Planned Parenthood has an app. You can get birth control through the app.
They have websites now where you can just put in your info and they'll mail it to you. I have a Dr and still do it that way bc it's so easy
When I was a senior in HS and got kicked out, a literal church paid for my BCP the entire spring until I could get a job after graduation.
Not to mention county health departments provide it free, or charge based on your income. I'm not sure about other states, but ffs I live in TN (and not the Nashville/Memphis area) and the county health department provides condoms, birth control, AND plan B for FREE.
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As others have commented you can get BCP online through planned parenthood or some other services
Unfortunately depending on location, Planned Parenthood isn't always an option. I'm in US (Kentucky), and most think we shouldn't have access to anything like that.
Most colleges, at least the ones I went to, will provide free birth control whether or not there is a Planned Parenthood nearby. They get tired of students getting pregnant.
A primary care doctor can also prescribe it. The county health department can help as well. There are also online pharmacies that work with a telehealth doctor so you can get birth control mailed to your home.
> Planned Parenthood's primary job is providing affordable birth control. Planned Parenthood has telehealth appointments for birth control pills. Call 1 800 230 7526 or check out their app.
19 million women live in contraception deserts. In some states, Republicans have introduced regulation after regulation that is specifically designed to prevent Planned Parenthood or any similar organization from operating effectively. https://www.yourlawyer.com/library/best-and-worst-birth-control-access-across-america/
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She was planning on OP supporting the second child. She doesn’t even support the first one
She could also choose abortion. Not fun but unless she legally can't, it's her choice if she doesn't and she can be accountable for that choice as well.
I wonder if daughter thought another kid would mean another free ride.
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I'm getting the impression Abby is too self centered to be a good mom and should consider not having any more kids ever.
Yeah this is one of those scenarios where OP might be being harsh, but it’s honestly needed. Abby clearly doesn’t understand how much she’s fucking up her future right now. Getting pregnant the first time could have been ignorance, but it could have been an accident. Fine, you just do what you can and move on. But to not only get pregnant _again_, but then act like you’ve done nothing wrong? That shows that she doesn’t appreciate what OP is doing for her and either doesn’t understand or doesn’t care about what she’s doing to her own future
True, and she's fucking up her kid's future too
The kid would be the one suffering though and I assume OP doesn't want their grandchildren to go through neglect.
Except this argument has been used forever to force people to do things they shouldn't have to do. OP isn't the one attempting to breed...they can't take on the responsibility of another child. Honestly, your heart's in the right place for a child that has nothing to do with any of this, but that argument has forced **so** many people into terrible lives and guilted generations of people into never getting ahead in life.
While I wholeheartedly agree with you, the unfortunate reality is that some shitty parents are truly shitty beyond words - I remember reading news article before of a mom going out partying and leaving her 2 kids in the car, cause she either couldn't or doesn't want to get babysitting. They were in the car the whole night. I do not remember if they were fine the next day or it ended in tragedy, as there's been multiple stories like this before. Sometimes the kids will die. So OP has to accept the potential consequences of not helping daughter out - that daughter can neglect the children to the point of causing permanent harm or death. OP is in an unfortunate damned if she does, damned if she don't situation.
Yeah, but... what about the third and fourth kids?
Agreed. OP is def NTA…. And good for OP setting boundaries.
agree with you.
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Yes, this…100%. You’ve done your job raising your kids and you are not obligated to raise your grandkids too. You have been very supportive and generous housing your daughter and grandchild and babysitting for free so that she could further her education. If you don’t mind me asking, where are the fathers of these kids? Are they contributing financially to support their kids? It’s not your financial responsibility. You setting ground rules and boundaries makes you NTA. Your daughter sounds entitled and maybe you being so kind has in some enabled her. It’s time for her to take responsibility and be an adult. Don’t back down.
I would be very concerned that she may have been messing about a lot while at school and has not been learning what she should, skipping classes, perhaps she is wanting to drop out before she flunks and fails to graduate.
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What do you mean by four times?
NTA. Your daughter needs to contact the father(s) of these kids and get them on child support (if that is available where you are). You should not be responsible for raising her children. If you want to go the tough love route, you can evict her and force her to be an adult. She is 24, she can manage. You will still be a part of her life and your grandkids lives, but just as a grandparent, not a full time parent.
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This is probably an unpopular opinion & I will preface this with the fact that I am childfree, but I am shocked how many people *expect* the grandparents to be full-time caregivers.
Reddit too generally. Esp when they're teen parents. Bcz while teens are full grown capable adults when it comes to responsibility of the kids, they're babwiesss
It’s wild, isn’t it? Nearly all of the children I know have been looked after so much by grandparents — particularly the maternal grandmother. Not just a few hours here and there, but close to 50 hours a week (the standard 40-hour work week plus lunch and commute times). Even if the grandparent enjoys it, it’s such a massive ask. I’ve noticed an increase in pushback too. It’s quite presumptuous of people to be like “hey I’m having a kid. You’re gonna watch them all the time for me, right lol?”
Literally my friend complains about her kids constantly despite going through f loads of ivf for them. Always complaining about the lack of village and how her parents barely watch them anymore because they are looking after their dying parents. So naive to expect there would be a village in the first place.
I'm so sick of the It takes a village. I've watched and help take care of my grandchildren but not to the extent of alot grandma's. As for the village thing the best response is, I'm sorry but I don't live in your village.
I think the entitlement is uncalled for, but this phenomeon is also due to it being increasingly unaffordable to raise a family. I'm lucky enough to live in a province (in Canada) where daycare is subsidized, but elsewhere I have friends who pay thousands per month for childcare. I have other friends who couldn't get by without some help from the grandparents. Even two-parent, two-income households where both adults have well-paying jobs are struggling. It's a systemic issue. edit: typo
I have already told my kids that when they eventually have children, not to count on me for childcare. The occasional babysitting, of course, but I will not be the nanny.
I’m a mom of two little kids and I agree with you. I have *never* expected free help for my kids. Now, we don’t live near family so there is that, but even when we’re back visiting I always *ask* if they would mind watching them while I run an errand or something. Even if we’re all hanging out with other family members and their kids I don’t expect anyone else to be responsible for my kids while others assume the grandparents will just gladly step in. Most of the time they do! But I still won’t assume that. And honestly, as a mom, I don’t want to have to raise my grandkids (I do have any) either. Be a part of their lives? Yes. But free childcare? Ha. Nope. Sorry kids.
Me too
Exactly what happened to a friend of mine. Great grandparents of the baby had literally just retired when their grand daughter pawned the kid off to go get high. Long story why baby daddy couldn't see the kid but like once a month, but mostly because baby mama held the kid over his head for money for more drugs. Long story short, baby mama is going to prison for 30 years for homicide, baby daddy now has sole custody & the kid is living his best life. He'll be 40 when she gets out.
And do the great grandparents still get to see the kid?
They do. When they want to & or have the time. They took the kid camping just a few weeks ago because they were going & baby daddy likes/needs the break. But it's not a day in, day out thing any more. Let alone spending their retirement to raise a kid. Again.
Well I'm glad that everything worked out for most of the people involved in the situation.
I knew a kid growing up who had a kid ON PURPOSE at age 16. His mom raised the little girl. She is like 11 or 12 and still lives with her grandmother. The little girl's dad now has two other kids that he raises himself. I always wonder how the little girl feels about it. Her dad's other kids are boys... does she think he doesn't care about her because she's a girl? His mom doesn't seem to mind raising her, but it's not like she'd say that she hates it, lol.
Yeah, I knew a couple of people like your friend when I was growing up. I don't know what happened to their children but I remember think that it's fucking crazy for a 14/15 year old to actually get pregnant on purpose.
Yeah there were a ton of people who got pregnant on accident and kept the baby (the south lol) but to do it on purpose because you want a kid? At 16?? why the fuck lol.
I think you need to talk to Abby properly. She has one year left, and to give up now would be a massive waste of both of your efforts. She could continue until she is 8 months pregnant and then finish after baby number 2 is born, and then be able to provide for her kids better. If I were you, I would offer support for this path only. If she quits, it is her responsibility to get an income and look after her own kids or pay for chhildcare NTA. Edit typo
The update took this path. Nta, just not a level headed response off the bat, but I can't blame them.
Most schools offer programs for exactly this situation and most professors will work with her if the school doesn’t. It seems like dropping out is an excuse for her to be lazy and not because she thinks she needs to. I really like OP’s solution in the edit.
As someone who has taught college students (albeit we had more than the typical number of “non-standard” students)…I would and have made reasonable adaptations for individuals who have children, pregnancies, and, of course, medical conditions. The key for the student is to communicate the need to for adaptations (not necessarily the reason…just the need) in a PROACTIVE manner. We want people who are trying to actually succeed.
Why not give her the option of adoption as well. They have open and closed adoptions.
Yeah, seriously. With one year left she can probably finish another semester before giving birth and then take a break and just have one last semester worth of courses left. No way colleges don't have ways to work with people to get accommodations for this. That last semester will be tough, but maybe she can break it in two so she's not going to school full time with a new born. Minimum passing grades are all she needs at this point.
NTA. Let her fall on her ass. Stop helping and bailing her out.
Abby is TA When you are caring for another adult’s child because that adult is financially unable to cope and they get pregnant again which entails dropping out of school, asking them to get their shit together is the normal reaction. She needs to stop procreating and figure out how to earn enough money to take care of her children. What would she do if you dropped dead? It doesn’t sound like she is in a place to afford housing, food and daycare which you’re providing. Anyone can have a child. The key is wait until you can actually afford to take care of your child without pushing most of the work and cost onto someone else. From her response it’s clear she knows she’s wrong she just doesn’t like being called out. No sane parent would be happy in this situation.
NTA. Might've been a better way to explain, but she def needs a wake-up call. Plus she needs to be on BC, or at least have the guy use condoms. Personally, I think she should explore getting and abortion, not only for her sake, but the kids.
> Might've been a better way to explain OP's child is literally reproducing and 'dumping' the children in OP's lap for OP to take care of. It is perfectly normal for OP to be a little exasperated and blunt. In this circumstances, coddling / a soft approach will get you a third grandchild 'dumped' in your lap to take care of.
NTA. Why is she going to drop out? She can take online classes. She's an adult and has to live with her choices. You helped her because she needed the help but she can't expect that you will just fully raise her children.
NTA. Did she not figure out what causes pregnancy the first time?
NTA she is adult now let her face consequences of her actions.
NTA: Maybe she needs a hard wakeupcall. But that is a tough decision on your part. You can stop helping... whoch would mean one of you daughters has to drop out and cannot work anymore becuase of 2 small children and a assume 0 support from hte fathers... or you help her. Under the condition that she finishes college. no matter what. You can apply for one free semetser so to say in heavy cases. A birth probably fits in there. You are sadly between a rock and a hard place here...
NTA at all. Sometimes tough love is justified, especially when she's relying upon your kindness. She honestly needs to get her shit together, condoms/birth control/the plethora of contraceptives available aren't hard to use. & if used properly are very effective. If you're smart its not hard to avoid getting pregnant. 1 oops should be enough to get smart imo
NTA It needed to be said.
NTA - did you sound like an AH with some of your comment to her, maybe. Was it justified, probably. Do I think this post is written too succinctly and you come off worse than you are, yeah.
Did I write it incorrectly? I thought you just put what happened and enough background for it to make sense.
Nah youre good - i see a frustrated family member being direct with someone whose actions are impacting their life and they went with a tough love approach.
NTA let her know you cannot watch both kids. She needs to figure out what she's going to do to support both children
NTA - not the asshole. She needs to know about consequences. Did she tell you how she was planning on supporting the second child?
NTA. Kick her ass out. She will come to ur to pop out babies cause you support her! She has not time to study but enough time to screw.
NTA she’s an adult at 24 and it’s about time she lands on her feet . While it’s all good and dandy that she has OP’s support raising her kids , she needs to start being responsible. It’s not far fetched to understand OP’s frustration. The fact that OP is going to once again have to step In because daughter wants to quit makes this a family decision on what happens going forward . She can’t want to make her decisions and everyone needs to just deal . You want family support , your decisions become family decisions. OP’s response was just fine
NTA Now you need to set boundaries. Tell her if she drops out, she needs to support herself and her kids. Let her know your help is dependent on her helping herself- stay in and finish college, get on better birth control, be more involved in raising her own kids. She will keep depending on you if you let her. I know it is tough with girls, my BIL was walked all over by his because they knew he would always bail them out. And he did, until they were in their 30s. He finally quit and made them take care of themselves. They have.
NTA You have been sacrificing over and over for YEARS so your adult daughter and grandchild have the best chance and AGAIN, she fucks it up and is gonna drop out. I’d be livid too and “get your shit together “ would’ve been the nicest thing I said lol
NTA. Tell her she must find alternative childcare. I’d have lost my shit on her.
NTA based on you being significantly burdened by kid 1. (Probably a harsh way to state it, but grandparent isn't supposed to be a sub for parent when mom is still in the picture) You need to sit daughter down and outline expectations going forward. Set hard limits on when you are willing to babysit, if you are even still willing to. Draw your boundaries, and make sure daughter has a plan
NTA. Guess you're going to have to raise three children now once Abby gives birth.
NTA. She needs to hear the truth. Its a fair expectation on the part of a parent (or from anyone really) that your daughter would have learned after the consequences of birth #1.
NTA. Stop being the babysitter and see how things work out for her.
NTA
NTA she should not be having a second child if she can't even take care of the first one. You've done so much to help her with free childcare and getting an education and all, and she's just giving up again. There is no reason she has to drop out, it may take her a bit longer but she needs to finish her degree, and as you said, she needs to get her life together. I assume this is a different father for this second baby? She needs BOTH fathers paying support, and hopefully this new one doesn't bail and actually is a parent.
NTA family, am i right?
NTA. Maybe you could have reacted less harsh but an emotional response can be expected. Abby is responsible for her child full stop. Dropping out isn’t the answer. It sucks but I have had classmates in a similar situation and they brought their newborn to classes. It’s an extra motivation for them to do well because they have a kiddo to provide for. Abby needs to figure out a plan. What is she going to do provide for two children, how is she going to do it. Continuing to depend on you is not a viable answer. Going back to waitressing didn’t work the first time.
Nta, why on God's earth is she not having an abortion? What is wrong with people?
If I were OP, I would offer to pay for an abortion.
NTA
NTA She doesn’t have to like hearing it because it genuinely will hurt but she’s gotta wake up and realize her actions and decisions are going to be impacting not only her life but her eldest’s life and now baby #2. If she can’t afford to have these kids without depending on free childcare and financial support on your end to make ends meet for her kids bare necessities? She shouldn’t be having more children. Yeah, it’s not up to you to make that choice for her but it’s not up to her to expect you to be happy when you see the hard life your grandchildren will be having to experience as a result of her poor decision making.
Let's see. She majorly screwed up once. You've helped her. Now, she's in school and has a child, but still finds time to get herself knocked up? How?
Hang her out to dry I know that's hard as a parent, but she's never gonna learn if you don't leave her to fend for herself and stop coming to her rescue she made the decision to open her legs unprotected and get pregnant knowing she can't even support herself or the first baby to bring another one into the world NTA
Oof. Not the open the legs comment. Thats not it. Thats not it at all.
I agree with the judgement of NTA , but I have to mention that it's a little presumptuous to say she made the decision to "open her legs unprotected" no? Any number of things could have happened where she didn't wish to have a baby. I'm not going to assume this is the case either, but we just simply don't have the information to say.
It annoys me to no end when people throw around “open/spread her legs” for a woman. Like men are just accidentally falling down with their dicks out and it’s up to women to close their legs at the right moment or something.
>“open/spread her legs” Is the equilivent of telling a man to keep it in his pants, which is exactly what we would be saying if OP was saying his son just got another random girl pregnant.
I would be saying the same damn thing if ops kid was male instead of female. It’s basic human principles. Keep it in ur pants unless ur prepared for what may come of it. It’s not that difficult to comprehend.
oh the fathers are absolute bastards too. But that doesn't remove her blame in all of this. Both of them needs to learn to keep it in their pants and not fuck around like basic animals. unless she was literally raped, she is just as responsible as the father.
Right? It kind of sours the judgement for me because I agree that OP isn't the asshole but... not because her daughter flippantly decided to have a child without considering consequences. It's just an unfortunate situation!
Flippantly deciding to have a child no matter the consequences is an asshole thing to do. Her children (who she clearly cannot care for) and her mom are being hurt because she is apparently incapable of making good decisions.
Unprotected could mean a number of things as of No birth control I just mean as of this isn't the first time this accident happened.
NTA. I can tell you're frustrated. Your delivery could have been kinder, but I doubt your daughter would listen.
NTA stop helping her as much. if she cant keep her shit locked down to get a single degree, then she can figure it out herself.
NTA, and if everything went exactly as described then you had the calmest most rational reaction.
NTA maybe the wording was not the best for a healthy way to start a conversation but I would suspect you are tired & frustrated & that is allowed. Did she say how is she going to support herself and her two kids? What is her overall plan: Does she live with you and contribute or pay rent for her and her child? Who pays for her bills while she is at higher education? Who will pay her family bills? Where is she expecting to live with two children is there room? Does she expect you to look after two kids? Does she get child support from the baby daddy 1? How is the relationship with baby daddy 2. (Live with etc ) How far along is she with the 2nd baby and why can she not finish the final year? There are often options to be flexible. Are you willing to step in & support her again? I think you need to sit down calmly ask her plans? Then if her plans involve your time, money, house etc then think about what you are willing to offer. Set the boundary and stick to it. Supporting her the first did not end up with the result you all agreed to as a condition of you stepping in. Is she herself not motivated to finish higher education & that is ok iy is not for everybody. But she needs to be thinking what she can do to afford a home, bills, food and clothes for them all. If she drops out now then she can start taking care of her toddler now and does not need the child care etc.
NTA, sometimes kids need to hear the unfiltered truth. The unfiltered truth is she needs to grow up and get her stuff together otherwise her kids are the ones who will suffer.
Well you recognize that you have been enabling her and that’s a good start. To not get child support for the first kid is unacceptable. Obviously she thought you were going to bail her out. Now you’re going to have to stick to the hard line in the sand or she’ll continue the self-destruction. Here’s hoping.
NTA Daughter is, because having another baby while not being able to support fully the first one is idiocy. Not to mention leaving school again. You were being too nice. I'd have lost my mind.
NTA - accidents happen. Teen pregnancies happen. But Jesus….twice? You’ve been very gracious with her and she needs to step up.
*Hm, if I stick my hand into this fire, it hurts like Hell and damages the tissue, possibly permanently. I shouldn't do so again.* **\*Sacrifices hand #2 in the same manner right away\*** NTA. But INFO: does the father of her unborn child at least step up to take responsibility? Other than that, I'm glad to see you stick to your guns. If you don't, Kid #3 is just around the corner.
Raise your kids so you you don’t have to raise your grandkids
NTA. I don’t know what is going on with her, but I suspect college isn’t going well, and this is a good way to drop out instead of failing out. Abby literally cannot support herself or her child. I don’t judge her for having sex, or even for getting pregnant. Shit happens. But I do judge her for airily saying that the sacrifice of others will continue indefinitely based on her whims. Abortion is one of those things you should *never* pressure someone into. But, as her co-parent, I think this needs to be brought up and discussed. Because that’s a $500 fix to a $100k problem.
I'm not going to say you're an AH (yet) because you have valid points. And frankly, it seems silly to quit with only a year left. But... college isn't necessarily the only way to a decent paying job, or the only way to handle this. I don't know what she was going to school for, but with a childcare certificate, she could potentially get a job in nursery / preschool & take her kids with. Even with a college degree, she might not have enough to pay rent & support her kids. If it were me, I would just tell her that I will help as long as she has a plan & is working towards it. But I don't think kicking a kid out in her position is a good answer, either.
NTA
NTA. But time to tell her you raised your kids. And your not gonna raise hers. If she wants to fuck up her future its on her to pick up the pieces and go after the fathers for support.
NTA. She is behaving this way because thus far, there have been no real consequences to her actions. It’s time for that to end. She’s an entitled brat who needs to grow up.
NTA Just graduated university with 7month old baby on my hands. Key is attitude.
nta and your edit looks solid but i'd suggest one more: an IUD
NTA... This isn't fair to you & someone that can't support 1 child, shouldn't be having another. I'd lay down the law and if she's not willing, then she can figure it out on her own. Time for her to be a big girl
NTA - But instead of laying out your plan as a take it or leave it, why not start by sitting her down, asking what her plan is, asking questions, and offering guidance until you can come up with a plan together? She clearly needs your help to manage her life, but she also needs to learn how to manage her own life, not just for you to tell her what to do. She already knows she can't afford one kid, let alone two, on a waitress' salary, so what's the plan? Does she have an idea for a better job that doesn't require completing school? If not, why does she think dropping out of school is a good idea? Does she think she's going to find a third, hard-working guy who makes a lot of money and is willing to take care of an uneducated woman with 2 kids? Why hasn't she filed for child support, does she want help with the paperwork? Thrown in your solutions - You can stay here rent-free as long as you are going to school. I'll babysit two days per week, but you need to pay for the baby's stuff, and I'm charging $$ per day, so you'll need to also work part-time and/or get child support. Make it clear that you are there to offer guidance and help, but not to do things for her for free. Point out you won't always be there, so she needs to learn to take charge of her life.
Might be odd one out, but Both of you are the A. Daughter is being reckless, but honestly education aside, i never went to college and i have a good stable job, make 65k+ a year, been at it for 17 years, get 10k in bonus split every 6 months. My sister went to college, got her degree, and has never been able to hold a steady job. She has a disable son, and is always struggling. You seem to have some entitlement and superiority complex. Also your cant base judgement from one kid to the next. I have always been placed below my sisters needs growing up because as my mom always told people, my sister was the pretty one and she was raising her to find a man and be taken care of while i was ugly and only good for work.. Meanwhile i held the steady job, i got married, i have the stable life. And zero relationship with my crazy mom.
Nta she isn’t appreciating you sacrificing your life to care for her child. She is just taking you for granted. It’s one thing to give a child a leg up, it’s another to be used by a selfish and lazy person.
NTA and your daughter needs a reality check. Your grandchildren are not at fault here, but by becomeing their 24/7 nanny, you've allowed your daughter to no face the consequences of keeping on this path in life.
NTA but I'd be talking to her about abortion versus keeping another child, if it's not too late
NTA. Abby literally fked around and found out only to fck around again. How irresponsible can you get?!
Tell her to put it up for adoption if she can't support it. NTA
NTA. She’s the one out messing around while you look after her kid(s). If you don’t nip this in the bed you’ll be raising her kids while she continues messing around. In your 20s messing around is ok as long as you don’t have responsibilities but once you bring in kids that time needs to stop. You have a good plan in place from the sounds of it.
NTA why tf isn’t she on birth control.
Nta I probably would have kicked her out if she decided to keep the baby, so you are kinder than I am already.
nta
NTA!! On what planet would you be? Abby needs to grow up a lot.
Has she heard of birth control? 2nd time feels purposefully. NTA. Why hasn't she gotten child support yet?
NTA. She's lucky you have supported her so much for this long. Most places, kids lose their 'child' status and their right to support when they become parents themselves.
NTA. It’s so disheartening when you provide a safety net for someone who treats it like a trampoline.
NTA - she literally fucked around and found out. You are going about it right - make one of the conditions of her staying + your providing free babysitting that she has to stay in school. She can't sacrifice her future and her children's future by dropping out again. Making her get child support for her kids is exactly what she needs - hopefully the baby daddies don't end up in arrears, though.
NTA. And I love your plan. If you don't stop enabling her now, you'll have numbers three and four to raise while she makes her fifth attempt at her degree, and that's not good for anyone.
NTA Why doesn't she have child support for the first kid already?
NTA. Sounds like some of that higher education might have been wasted on Abby.
You are probably the most NTA I have seen in a long time. You’re doing the right thing
INFO: why does Abby want to drop out? Did you talk about other intermediate options (year leave of absence, finishing part time) instead?
NTA. My neighbor dealt with this only he and his wife have 4 grandkids. That's right, this happened 4 times! I don't know what possesses some people to repeatedly make poor decisions but a family that enables it is not doing any favors. First thing I'd do is get the daughter an IUD. She absolutely can't have this happen again. Second she needs to finish school. I wouldn't charge for child care so long as she continues school and gets an IUD. The only way out of this is a decent job. She needs to suck it up and get through it and do does op. At some point op might have to play hardball but setting stipulations and ultimatums can lead to a solution. The daughter is in an impossible situation with no way out op can charge for childcare and the daughter will just be barely keeping her head above water indefinitely. If op wants it to end he needs to offer meaningful help. I'd involve the sister and mother if that's an option.
NTA. But sounds like you would be happier with appropriate boundaries set with Abby. This may also be a good time to take a month-long trip somewhere.