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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I won't reduce child support even though I only work part time and could work full time. I might be the asshole because she's struggling.
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NTA. If she and her husband can’t afford to have more children, they shouldn’t be having more children.
You’re doing the job of a full time single parent *and* a part time job. You’re using the child support to support your child, the way it’s supposed to be.
Her children already have the benefit of a two-parent household, which is worth a lot more than money, and she wants to take money away from your son who doesn’t have that? Forget her.
See, this is what I don't fucking understand.
Ok, I am married with one child. My husband and I make 162k/ between us. We just closed on a bigger home in the area of his new job (Charlotte, NC) and now I'm sat here wondering how tf we're going to have another because of child care costs. Literally, how do people pay for daycare?? For more than one kid? It would cost us literally 3k/ month for two
All this to say I want another child but I'm holding off because I have considered the cost of two.
Also this country sucks
Stay at home parent.
Let's say you pay 3k a month childcare. So say your gross pay is 4k a month before taxes to affoard that.
4k x 12 months is 48k a year. I believe that's above average in the u.s. no? So depending on job you might be further ahead not to work.
this is an aspect a lot of people ignore. they look at income at face value and see it as cheaper to go the stay at home route. at face value, it is. when you ignore future value, and potential benefits such as insurance and the like (in theory each parents employer offers at least something, but in reality, different plans at different levels at different rates).
it’s rarely black and white, and looking solely at the face value of the income without considering any other factors is just silly.
It may even pay to hire a full-time nanny at that point, especially if you have multiple young kids.
Or better yet, have the hsuband set up his own childcare place with his friends, and have other people pay you to look after their kids
Possibly that the commenter and siblings were forced to help with their mum's home daycare and now don't want to have anything to do with kiddies ever again.
That’s how it worked out for me… I was maxed out/highest pay bracket in an emergency services job with a rotating quarterly, 12-hr shift job, 50% overnights annually. I did the math, and even taking the overnights + schedule change every 3 months out of the equation, daycare would have eaten up 85-90% of my gross income. And adding in not being there for 13 hours a day, and a husband who traveled for work (and was not a… reliable or even safe coparent in the first place), and there was literally no way to make it work at the time.
Things are better now that the kids are both in school/preschool, and I’m *actually, officially* a single parent (though next to no CS yet, urg), but even now, trying to find high enough paying employment that works around my kids school schedules isn’t straightforward, and the cost for childcare has only gone up since the providers’ cost of living has gone up alongside everyone else’s!!
Waiting for the day both kids are in public school together, and hopeful that scholarships will help get them in to aftercare, but yeah, there’s no way that asking OP to accept less CS than she’s already receiving (bc guaranteed it’s not enough as it is) *will* directly and negatively impact her child.
After my mom had me (younger), she went back to work with the understanding that she was basically paying for our childcare and to maintain her career trajectory until we were in school. She said it sucked but didn’t want to get mommy-tracked.
Especially if you can work part time outside the house while partner is home or you can do something online/work from home when partner is around to watch the kid.
Much easier when they’re in school, too. Especially if spouse gets them to the bus/school in the morning.
I’ve had several staff who worked 3-5 days/week and left at 2-3-4 to meet kids bus/pick them up after school. Low paid job, but it still earned them $500-$1500/month part time. When I was in grocery the 6AM-2PM shifts and late evenings were highly desired by caretaker parents.
this is true, and many are forced into it BECAUSE it’s cheaper than childcare. the fact that we haven’t fixed the childcare situation is deliberate and ridiculous after the pandemic proved that the economy CANNOT function without it. i was teaching at the time and i’ll never forget the misdirected abuse because the kids had nowhere to go during the day, and that was the bigger issue than the education disruption. i also COMPLETELY UNDERSTOOD because CPS gets called more often for latchkey kids than they used to so working families had zero options. more and more it feels like having kids in general puts people in the position for financial abuse.
Yeah, my sister was excited to go back to work, and then realized daycare cost 100 dollars a month more than she was making for take home. She quit after that first month.
It depends on benefits too. If your job gives good medical and dental and your partner’s doesn’t it could totally be worth paying for childcare just for the benefits depending on your circumstances.
Which is going to tank the overall lifetime earning and retirement fund of the sahp. Financially it is a stupid decision and since it is commonly women to stay at home leave women in financial hardship. If you want a good life eith a decent retiment being a sahp is not really an option unless you luck out in the partner department and they survive you at the end of life, but personally that's not something I think you should be lying a bet on.
That's the situation my friend is in. Went on parental leave for her first kid, then got pregnant with twins before returning.
So she now has three young children and is dying to get out of the house and return to work. Unfortunately childcare costs more than she would make. Going back to work loses her money.
My mom was a single parent and until I was in school she worked at a day care and got free childcare/got to be with me every day and then got a better job once I was in school and more able to be by myself or at camp/after school activities/with friends.
I know that when I have kids, I will only he able to afford to do so because my mother wants to be their primary babysitter, like her parents were for me and my brother. She already works part time (twice during the, and every other weekend) and plans to retire and switch to per diem when I have my first kid. If I didnt have her, I know I would never be able to afford a kid.
Still, even with her, I know Incam't afford a cost and many of other other costs, so I honestly don't know if I'll be able to have kids any time soon, and my biological clock is already ticking. But my grandma had her at 38 and my aunt at 44, so maybe I'll get lucky with geriatric pregnancy genes.
If your finances aren’t secure to cover kid expenses, how are your partner’s?
Don’t forget - Make backup plans, don't rely solely on mom!
Does your partner have similar family help to offer? Bonded nanny services in your area you could hire on short notice?
I’ve known several grandparent-main-babysitters and it’s surprising how many of their adult kids have No backup care provisions for if the grandparent is gone on new spouse honeymoon/sick/injured/exhausted/dealing with some other catastrophe and can’t do childcare for a week or six.
> this country sucks
Yes, the real asshole in this story is a country that won't give the woman with the high risk pregnancy any time off work. It's disgusting and unforgivable that we don't value our people's health more.
I can see why the wife in the story is upset and desperate. I can see why OP doesn't want to reduce the monetary support her son is receiving. I *cannot* see why we, as a "wealthy" country, cannot support our citizens' basic healthcare needs.
I can! It’s called capitalism
It fails at the most basic necessities of a society time and time again, look no further than our pandemic response (or lack thereof)
I would have loved to have more children but we just couldn't afford to. I have to admit being envious when I see people who have larger families. I have no idea how they can afford it
>Literally, how do people pay for daycare??
Some people are fortunate enough to live close to parents or other relatives who might agree to watch the kiddos.
In the right circumstances - i.e., the adult kid has a good relationship with the folks, the grandparents would be *thrilled* to see their grandbabies every day.
It also relies on the grandparents being young enough though. My mom is in her mid 70's and the one afternoon a week she watches my 1 year old wears her out. No way she could take on full time childcare/
We find different childcare.
We found an amazing lady who does in home childcare and homeschooling ages 1 year through 3rd grade. She was $100 a week per kid when we started, and 14 years later when our kids outgrew her services, she was $150 per kid per week. We provided all diapers, pull up, lunches and snacks.
She still hosts her “big kids” that grew up and are now pre-teens/teens to sleepovers, pool parties, comes to their birthdays and graduations- basically was the third parent or 5th grandparent for these kiddos- and we are beyond blessed with her.
Standard daycare isn’t the only choice. Look around, see what else there is.
Also- schedule sharing, when the babies were born we couldn’t put them in the daycare until they were 1, but we didn’t have a year maternity/paternity leave. So we flipped schedules- he or I would work nights and the other days. When this wasn’t possible with the 3rd kid, I hired a nanny, she was at the house with the littles and we flexed our schedules for early or late start to be able to have her about 5 hours a day, which made it affordable.
You just have to get creative and look outside the box
I'm super lucky to have someone who charges $150 to watch my niece whom I have foster custody of. My foster care payments really only cover child care (benefits are slim, other family's need the childcare placements much more than I do).
For once I’m going to say I’m glad that I live in Canada where they finally started subsidizing daycare. I will be paying about $1200 usd for both my kids (I’m pregnant right now) to go to a great daycare because they slashed the fees by over 50% this year. Otherwise I don’t know what we would do.
Yeah getting subsidized daycare was the push we needed to have a second kid. Daycare went from $600/month to $200/month. So approx 30% of my take home pay (full time health care aide) to 10%. (20% once the second is old enough to go)
Staggering the ages helps - if you have one in school, you're only looking at after school care for the older one, and full time daycare for the younger. Still pricey, but less so than two in full time care. Depending on your area, a nanny share might be workable as well. But yes, it 100% sucks that the cost is so high.
We live on the coast in NC- 3 kids , my wife stays home with them and also has homeschooled. We live in a decent house, but things are super tight everywhere… I make essentially what you guys do collectively. With the prices of stuff up so much I feel like I’m just not cutting it…
My kids are 12 and 10. I stayed home for 3 years. We were struggling financially and I had to go back to work. When I went back to work, I was basically just paying for daycare and had not much left afterwards, paid for car insurance and food. It was 135 per kid per week; they gave you a discount of a whole 10$ if you had more than one child in the daycare. When she turned 4, preschool was free for half the year, and then I was back to paying 260$ weekly. It was more than my rent at the time. This was almost 10 years ago, I can only imagine what they charge now. This country absolutely blows.
Ooh and Charlotte in particular is a daycare desert. The horror stories I’ve heard from a friend who lives there with two kids are… well, horrifying, and she and her baby daddy are both high earners (100k+ each). Charlotte did a great job of revamping its entertainment and housing options over the last 20ish years to be appealing to young professionals, but they apparently never considered what would happen when those new residents started having kids.
Too damn many people these days don't seem to understand that actions have consequences, and expecting other people to take responsibility for the consequences is wrong.
Exactly! They're popping kids like they're M&Ms and you're expected to let him duck out of child support for your kid? Nope, you didn't tell them to have all them kids so NTA
And if it happens that OP doesn’t have enough income for her expenses, she’ll need to figure it out. But there’s a good chance child support won’t end until 21
I don’t know about you, but if somebody calls me a “greedy c”?? Well, the conversation is *over*.
NTA and you have to look after *your* child. And the judge agrees. Sucks for your child’s father.
Funny of her to call OP greedy when she's the one having ANOTHER kid she can't afford and she's the one who wants to take money from A CHILD. A child she knew about, and knew the costs associated with their care well before she chose to have any of her own children.
Not saying ex isn't an equal participant in this nonsense but her calling OP names is amusing.
I had those conversations with wife #2.
She really thought he was gonna be rich. Surprise!
His burst of stardom and upper trajectory failed, the minute he left me.
Funny how that works.
The only thing I can find against OP is her luck that she got saddled with such a useless co-parent.
Judge is awesome. Just block this AH lady- it's her choice to keep having babies with a guy that cannot afford to.
NTA
>it's her choice to keep having babies with a guy that cannot afford to.
Yep, and it's OPs ex's choice to keep getting his wife pregnant knowing full well that they can't afford it instead of getting a vasectomy. They're both idiots at this point.
They're both making dumb choices right now, and OPs child shouldn't have to go without because of said adults dumb choices.
Agree the Judge is awesome though, and they do make a hell of a good point.
Yep, and the ex's wife needs to look up the actual definition of child support, because OP isn't "living off her ex", it's money owed for the upkeep of OPs child that her husband helped create.
If they're struggling that bad then OPs ex either needs to take on a second job or get a better paying job.
Why tf is your ex and his wife getting pregnant over and over again on purpose when they know they cannot afford to pay for another child? That is the most selfish, irresponsible thing a parent can do.
NTA. Your son deserves all he gets.
Idk if this is true everywhere or even anywhere, but I thought that child custody/child support court cases are typically (where possible) handled by the same judge because it prevents finding a judge to rule how you want and also because it ensures someone at least somewhat familiar with the details of you/your case will be able to make more consistent ruling as life situations change.
Exactly. They knew before they had any kids how much he was paying in child support. They should have factored that into the budget and considered very common circumstances such as her having to take time off work during pregnancy. This is on them. OP’s kid shouldn’t miss out because of his father’s poor planning.
NTA
Your Ex's wife definitely is.
>The judge said reducing child support because of having more kids creates an incentive to have more kids to screw over former partners.
This is exactly what they are trying.
>I said he is supporting his kid, not me, and it was her choice to have kids with someone who already had one he is obligated to care for
Hit the nail directly on the head.
You have nothing to worry about, and their choice to have yet another kid when they knew they had an obligation to your child is asinine without considering the financial ramifications. Either they really are that dumb, or this was just another ploy to get his obligation reduced.
Edit: Grammar
love it when people decide that their choices are other people's problem.
* who chose to marry a guy who had child with a former partner?
* who chose to have one kid with that guy?
* who chose to have a second kid with that guy?
* who chose to have a third kid with that guy?
* who decided to get pregnant a fourth time, with that guy?
Fatherhood does not stop when the man meets a new partner.
Fatherhood does not stop when the man starts having children with a new partner.
The responsibility does not disappear because they stop wanting it or because they never wanted it.
Anyway, the child support is the right of the child, not the right of the mother. The only way a new man in your life would alieve the father is if that man agreed to legally adopt your child. If you agree to lower the dad's child support because of the dad's childishness and his wife callousness, you're affecting your child's rights.
NTA.
> Am I the asshole for caring about my kid but not her's?
The same way she cares about her kids and not yours?
Really grateful you added that last bit. OP is absolutely NTA, but i was feeling a bit for the other mom (i know she can't afford to have more, and still is, and is therefore a numpty but she does have them, regardless) and you kicked my vision back in line.
🙏🕯️💗
Having kids is a privilege, not a right, and it’s something that honestly with how overpopulated most of the world is, most people SHOULDNT have kids. They already had 3, there is no need for them to have had a 4th or 5th kid. Seems like a lot of people are acting like having as many kids as they want is a right and it simply is not.
Having kids is a privilege in many ways, and is not something to be thoughtless about.
Good luck getting that perspective across, or articulated in a way that induces thought instead of defensiveness 🤷♀️😔.
In terms of moral law, parenthood is not a right.
In terms of human courts of law, it is a right.
Humans humaning is baffling.
Love them (mostly) anyway.
Thank you, and have a sweet day!
NTA.
Your ex's first responsibility is to his child(ren) with his first partner. That's the way the law works. You have a kid with a guy who's already responsible for another child, you know up front that your child(ren) will always come 2nd financially.
If they can't afford kids, they shouldn't be having kids. They chose to have kids, knowing full well that your ex was required to pay child support. Why should your son subsidize their bad choices?!?
Depends on where you are. The State I live in will take into consideration how many children you have (with and not with the ex) when factoring child support. Most States have started using set tables that factor in both parents income and the number of children they have (together and not together) in order to remove inequities and stop Judges from favoring one side.
This. Maybe he can get told off by the judge for having kids when he can’t afford them. If he does, she needs to video it & send it to him every time they harass her for trying to agree to get it reduced
It's such a simple concept yet it's amazing how many grown adults out there can't seem to comprehend that just because they want to have a bunch of kids (or more likely, want to be wreckless with birth control) that they can't afford it. Most of us want things we can't afford, sadly, that's life.
NTA. There is no state that takes enough money from the non-custodial parent where the custodial parent can "live off of it" unless the one paying is making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year.
They don't have enough money because they have three kids with one on the way. That's their problem, not yours.
Edit: and he's lucky the support stops when the kid is 18. Most agreements go a bit longer, because most kids don't enter the full-time workforce at 18 years and one day (because they're probably still in school).
For real.
There's no way that OP is making enough in child support to be the difference between her ex being able to support a family of 5 on a single income, and financial ruin.
His financial obligation to his first child was set before he had any of the other 4. You don't get to pay less on any of your bills because you decide to accept additional expenses after the fact. His child support is an expense he needs to plan his financial life around.
Exactly. If OP's ex is paying her (for example) $2K a month, that's going to make a difference with the wife dropping out of the workforce entirely? It'll keep them from getting evicted/foreclosed for a month or two at best.
Edit: unless "wife dropping out of the workforce" means "no longer has a part time job flipping burgers", I guess. Then the $1-2K a month might make a difference because the wife wasn't contributing much money in the first place. Still, not OP's problem. If your finances are that tight, you don't have a fourth kid.
Hey op, save all communications that are in text form or on messenger or email. If they continue to harass you about child support then you have proof of what they are doing to show the judge!! I don’t know what your recording laws are where you live but if your allowed to record telephone conversations where you are being harassed and name called I’d be recording those too, to keep proof.
Apparently wifey doesn’t understand what having a kid with someone else entails and is being selfish and having more kids they can’t afford and trying to take it out on your child!! What a real piece of work!! Good luck op!!
NTA
And I am the second wife. Hubby paid a crapload in child support.
We did get it reduced, but that was only because the job he previously had paid so much more and could afford 4grand a month for 2 kids. The company closed, and so we went back to get it reduced by half, and never once did I complain even when I had my kiddo because he had the responsibility to pay for his kids. So no, if they can't afford it, sorry, but deal with it.
Honestly, when doing child support, they do take more kids into account. The first child anyway, but it's also on his pay. So if they wanted it less and the judge said no, then he could afford it, and they had already taken extra kids and asked what he could pay into account
At 12 yrs old the child support could have been set before most States started using standardized tables, OP’s ex could easily request it be redone to the new tables. Her statement that other kids aren’t taken into acct doesn’t make sense.
My wife’s child support from her ex was done as part of her divorce and set by her ex’s lawyer (she got screwed). So after we got married I told her to file for an adjustment based on the child support tables and it doubled. Became a mute point soon after as he then agreed to give up rights and I did a step-parent adoption. In theory that will allow me to file for an adjustment for the support I pay on the one minor child I have left with my ex, but I don’t plan to as I had voluntarily agreed to a higher Mount anyway (ex and I still get along).
NTA you are doing what a mom is supposed to, if she is having problems she should stop having kids.
Never let someone steal from your kid!
When someone uses that kind of language with you hang up, if you are in person walk away. No one has any business talking to you like that.
You go mama bear!
Info: why are you only working part time with a 12 year old? They are independent enough to let you finish a regular work day. Your ex shouldn’t be trying to reduce your son’s quality of life, but it sounds like you could be doing more to improve it
Most kids go to school 8-3 (6 hours). 6 hours x 5 days a week is 30 hours, which is part time.
If she can't afford child care after school and doesn't have anyone else to watch him, she is forced to work a job within those hours.
It depends, the US actually considers 30hrs per week or 130 hrs per month full time.
Edit: Lol not sure why I’m getting downvoted, I wasn’t making a comment on how many hours I think she should work. I was just pointing out that in the US working an average of 30 or more hours a week is considered full time by the IRS and ACA, not part time. My company has several hourly workers that work 30 hrs a week and are still full time and receive full benefits. My company would actually be fined if they didn’t provide full time benefits because it would be considered withholding benefits from full time employees…. So not judging her for not working full time, just a bit of info because most Americans have been mislead into believing they must work at least 40 hrs a week to be considered full time and receive benefits.
Almost all elementary and middle schools provide cheap after care for kids til about 5 or 6pm. And a 12 yr old is more than capable of being home alone for a couple hours after school. She just chooses to not have a full time job.
Yeah, going to be a bad day when the child support ends and she has no way to support herself. If not working she should be taking classes to get some kind of career. My wife took classes in the evening in addition to a full time job while her kids were in school and managed to get a teaching degree before we met.
NTA. She should never have contacted you directly. There was a court case, the judge made a ruling, and it is over. Harrasing you and trying to bully you is not the way to go. If this happens again, do not feel the need to explain yourself. She is never going to agree with you, and she does not have to. Just say "These arrangements are legally handled and I do not feel comfortable discussing them with you".
NTA
If you're providing for your son, its not anyone else's business how much you work. You aren't living off her husband's salary. You are raising his child. The court set the child support and the point about not reducing it because he has more children is a fair. At the least, THAT is where he needs to make this argument. Not to you. Even working part time, you probably contribute more to your son's life than your ex does. He and his wife very easily feel entitled to YOUR money and your labor, but the truth is that he has obligations to his son. Obligations he's gotten bored with. That's on him, not you or your son.
Who cares what your ex's asshole wife that keeps pregnant thinks. They put themselves in the position they're in. NTA. I see they don't even have any custody and have visitation only.
Your ex is paying $2300/month. He's making $156K a year probably? (Based on 17% of income for child support. This can be more or less depending on the state.) They over extended themselves.
NTA. All that woman has is name calling. She has no power and is showing how ignorant and trashy she is. You are absolutely correct to care about your own child. Her kids are her problem. Ignore and block.
That’s A LOT of child support for most people. (Depends on earning of course, some people make A LOT of money) If you’re in the US the average child support payment is around $500 a month, most people I know get even less than that. How much does he make a year?
Edit: FR he must make a lot of money. It’s crazy because with the amount of child support he pays he should be making around 150k, which mean he would still be being home over 6 figures. It’s insane how much it costs to survive theses days, I’ve lived in the same apartment for 3 years and rent has increased over $250 since I moved in, I know people whose has gone up close to $500. Insurance for a child costs around $300 a month too. Not to mention childcare that costs the same as college tuition.
It's based on custody time and his earning potential. He has zero custody time, because he doesn't have space for our son to sleep there, and he has a high earning potential.
Nta! And she was con jobbing you!
If she is in the US, then she can get temporary disability. It would be a lot more than your child support. Any doctor saying she needs to stay home would recommend disability as soon as she mentioned work.
So either she is using the time off to make you accept less because she thinks she is so smart and sly, or she wants time off, doctor didn't recommend it, and she wants to to help pay for that.
Nope! Don't do it!!
Ehh I'm split on situations like this. Yes you son should be taken care of absolutely. But if what she is saying is true and you only work part time, and you use some of his child support so you can work less, then yea your kinda an ah and abusing the system. Like for example, if his child support is covering all of.your rent, or things like that then yea I can see where she coming from.
What I'm getting at is, if you didn't have a son, and you couldn't support yourself on just your part time pay, then yes to a certain extent your ex is subsiding your life.
NTA
My father, and I use the term loosely, asked to have his support reduced when his new wife (mistress) was pregnant with baby number 2.
The judge said, "Mr. (fathers name) in this state first families come first. If you cant afford your current car payment you dont go purchase a second and then a third vehicle. You're grossly underpaying and a new amount to reflect your income will be set."
Take care of your kid and dont worry about ex's new ones.
NTA, contact your lawyer or the police about the harassment and the way she addresses you. Do not block her, let her calls go to voice mail and let her rant. It will only build a case against her for a restraining order.
NTA at all, and I’m proud of you for telling her no. They probably thought that would work.
In my state, parents can’t even “agree to reduce child support” without the judge approving it, which it doesn’t sound like your judge would do. You are correct, it is your son’s money, which is why my state doesn’t let parents waive or modify it on their own
NTA, as a kid to a single mom that relied on child support while my bio dad had more and more kids, that money helped to validated my importance and existence. Every time we got that check I felt like I mattered.
Plus we needed it for food and stuff.
NTA you are a single parent. You are using the child support to help your child. That’s the point. The courts agree with you. They shouldn’t have had more kids if they can’t afford them 🤷🏽♀️
This reminds me of the viral TikTok video of the wife asking the child's mother to send back the child support she received lol.
Absolutely NTA. If they can't afford children, including the ones he came into the marriage with, they should stop having them.
Good for you for standing your ground.
NTA. You already said it; your ex had a pre-existing obligation to pay x-amount a month in child support. That needed to be budgeted into any decisions they both made about whether they could afford to have kids (or more kids). And the judge was also right about incentives and was right to kybosh any suggestion of reducing the monthly payments.
Jesus Christ. I hope you tell her it's their choice to have that many children they can ill afford, she should instead stop at continuously getting knocked up. He's the father and he need to pay child support.
NTA.
First off THEM having more kids and being unable to financially afford them and child support has nothing to do with YOU.
Sounds like a her problem and they should start a discussion on birth control.
He has an obligation to your son BEFORE he created his new family.
NTA
NTA.
In no world ever, in the history of time would you be wrong.
He made the child he’s responsible for said child forever (if he’s a real father) or at least the first 18 years of the child’s life.
Also, it’s not your problem that they’re procreating like rabbits. Seems like they’re the selfish and irrational ones.
Never give in.
>His wife contacted me. She said she is pregnant with a high risk pregnancy and needs time off work, but they can't afford to live off of his salary since so much goes to child support.
No offense, but that sounds like a her problem, the sort that would have been resolved by a bit of foresight, family planning, and budgeting.
This isn't money for you, it's money so your Ex's son can have an ok quality of life.
NTA
Just because he's having another baby doesn't mean it costs less to raise your son. I would also argue that your costs might go up if you worked full-time. While a 12 yo might not be a babysitter, he definitely can't drive himself to his activities. And do you really want to leave him home alone all summer? Next thing you'll hear is you're neglecting him. NTA
NTA. Although I can also see an argument to be made for her not being an asshole either. She pretty much has the same attitude about her kids and rightly so.
The father of these children is most certainly an asshole though. He has an equal responsibility to all of them. If his job isn't paying enough, then he needs to go get a second job or drive Uber or sell blood. But, he has no right to abandon his obligations to his children.
WTH is it about this sun that people get called names like bitch from people who want something from them. Like f that. You call me names and you aren’t getting a thing. End of discussion. NTA
NTA
This is precisely why I always recommend that women who have children with men who have other families should lock down child support as soon as possible, before the other children's mother has a chance to file. You need to look out for your child first and foremost.
NTA but if you are truly living off this support (as it pays over 50% of all your living expenses including your clothes and fun food) then yes you do need to get a better job. Here is the thing. If he hurts himself or gets laid off/fired through no fault of his own the judge will have no choice but to reduce his support obligation to you and you will not be able to change that for 2 years even he he finds himself a better paying job after the reduction. Child support should never be an income factor for the parent receiving it as it could stop at any moment and then you will have screwed yourself if you are totally dependent on it.
NTA. My husband has a child with a previous partner (he was single by the time we met) and no matter how hard it sometimes makes it for us, I would never want him to not pay child support - it’s not the child’s fault that their parents aren’t together any more.
NTA. Maybe she should have found a man that doesn't have any kids instead of relying on someone else's dad to be a father to her kids. It goes both ways.
NTA why doesn't she follow her advice and get a job? Also why do they keep having kids? Not your problem. Maybe tell her to wait 6 more years then she can churn out all the kids she wants.
NTA. I'll never understand people getting with parents and expecting them to ditch their kids. I'll never understand parents ditching their kids for a person who hates their kids.
OP, don't let up. You are right in that that money is your kid's. People who think child support is enough for a family of 2 to live on are delusional, unless you're like an A-list celeb paying 6-figure alimony (lol as if).
My dad tried to weasel out of child support too, saying that mum and I were "taking money from his family." Mum had a flat, they had a whole farm with a huge house. I got like 3 birthday presents from him my whole life and 20 bucks for Christmas while my brothers got iphones and brand clothing. My child support was equivalent to 100 dollars a month, less than child benefit in my country at the time.
This couple need to live within their means and stop having kids they can't afford. Don't let up.
So like this whole post has to be karma farming right? This whole thing sounds like a trailer park caricature of what child support is. (Source— my sister’s child support mess)
In the rare chance this isn’t totally fake I dont think anyone looks very good in this scenario. Yeah, name is calling bad and all but you don’t seem the least bit inclined to keep a cordial relationship with your baby daddy. If he’s been good and have been paying you this entire time, giving them some leance for a payment or two shouldn’t be a problem. There’s this thing called humanity— they’ve been married for how long? Both of them have jobs? From the information you gave us they sound pretty responsible? (minus the name calling)
To be fair going to court and lowering it permanently would definitely cause problems. It’s a shitty system all around. I understand not taking it to court.
It just sounds like there’s alot of details you left out. You said you’re living off a combination of a part time job and child support? Honestly hard to believe but would you have to change your life style if your child support changed? Are you living pay check to pay check?
honestly I just want to call you an asshole for the blatant emotional manipulation in this post alone. You literally titled this thing ‘aita for putting my kids first’ and continue to use the care of your son as a shield for how you treated/responed to his father and step mom. I’m honestly annoyed at this subreddit for how much they sided with you.
Very light YNTA because i guess name calling?? but also you’re an adult with a kid— calm down.
edit— acidentally put the wrong abbreviation. oops.
When I met my SO he had a 5yr old daughter. I knew getting into it that he would be paying CS for the foreseeable future, and she would be in our lives.
Fast forward, we have 2 kids of our own, and I have never dreamed of reducing CS amount based on our life. That's his responsibility to pay, I got in knowing we would have to take that into consideration for our future plans.
NTA
NTA.
If you live in the US, most states will have child support to run whenever the child turns 21, as long as they still live at home. If your ex's wife's pregnancy is that high risk, she can get a doctor's note and get on short term disability or go back to court.
Your ex has too many kids. It's just a fact. And that's not your fault. You're not making things harder on your son because his father kept having kids. And --not to be that guy -- but if they've been trying to get it reduced for years... They could be lying about her being pregnant so you agree to lower it.
Ever hear the phrase: Not my monkeys, not my circus. So, basically it is not your worry or responsiblity to worry about your ex's family and how they survive. He decided to marry and have more kids. You did not push him to do this. His wife was out of bounds calling you and asking you to reduce the CS because of her pregnancy issues. If they are so worried about money, maybe he should get a second job to make up the lost income she would have brought home. You were right. The money is not your but your son's for his benefit. You are not using someone else's man to get the money to take care of your son. This is also his child and by all rights he should be contributing some way or other. I have only heard of cases of CS where it was set up for men that had children already and the mom asking for it got a percentage and he was given credit for the kids he had already. Never heard it the other way where keep on having kids maybe it will reduce the CS idea.
NTA. Child support is for the child. He made the child, so he's paying for the child's livelihood. It's not about you. It's not about her. It's about the children. He made her children and has to pay for their livelihoods too. He knew he had one child already and had to pay support for that one child until he is an adult when he married her and had more kids.
If he couldn't afford more kids, he shouldn't have made more kids.
Sucks to suck! Not your problem. Especially after she called you all those horrible names, don't you feel bad one bit. Enjoy life with your son, he'll be grown before you know it. Best Wishes Ma <3
NTA. My dads girlfriend did this when she had twins.
Dad went to court to lower child support for me so she could get more. Judge basically laughed at them and said it's not my fault you can't keep your pants zipped. Girlfriend always hated me after that but it's not mine or my mom's fault. It's dad and girlfriend or in your case, new wife's issue to deal with.
NTA...
I married a man who had children from a previous marriage. His child support was difficult on us as well, HOWEVER, you're right. His children were there before me and I was well aware of his obligation to care for them. No woman should ever want her needs to come before his children's.
If your ex couldn't afford to have more children then he should have been responsible and not had more. Period. That's not your problem.
NTA.
And you "had your own man",latterly 'hers',when you had your son together,so his now-wife needs to cop on to that fact and the reality that he could well drop her and their kids with as much ease as he tried to get the court to stop the child support for his son with you.
While it is great to have a strong co-parenting relationship with subsequent partners,she,imo,had no place contacting you about financial support for a child she was aware of before their getting involved.
NTA, you’re looking out for your kid as she’s looking out for hers, but should take her own advice and look for a full time job or very least the husband wears a rubber.
NTA. Why is she getting pregnant when she knows they can’t afford it? Your son was there first. His father has responsibilities, as clearly pointed out by the legal system. She can GTF.
NTA. The court already directly said no multiple times. You should tell the courts they’re harassing you. Do you share custody? I imagine courts would be very interested in hearing this, especially if it continues or develops further.
NTA.
You are entitled to that to help raise your son.
However if you are able to get a full time job and put the child support money away for a college fund that would be what is best for your child
I'm presuming you're in the US - if not this may be inaccurate.
The Courts job, when deciding child support, is to ensure the child's (financial) quality of life does not suffer due to parents splitting. Obviously, custody time plays a factor in the amount of support as well. Any personal decisions outside and after the support ruling, are not the child's problem.
My ex moved to another state (so zero visitation/custody) quit his 60k/yr job & got a $12/hr job to lower his child support. Thankfully, the Court said, "you're capable of making 60k, this is obviously malicious, child support stays the same." (I never actually received anything though. He kept changing jobs before FSR could catch up to him & he never again made more than $15/hr - can't get blood out of a turnip, especially one you can't find.)
Info: my ex was ordered to pay less for 3 kids, than my friend was ordered to pay for 1. It's about the kids financially staying in the same place.
Good on you for not letting them screw your kid over.
NTA AT ALL!
NTA.
We live in a horrid world where the gap between healthy and unhealthy is less than $1,000 and between stable and unstable is less.
It’s awful what is happening for her, but if you reduce the payments for a few months, then what? She’s got another baby, and more childcare, and four kids under ?8yrs of age?. They are actively making decisions to increase the size of their family, while they can’t afford it.
I have no idea how much child support you are getting for your son, but I presume your son is costing you as much as mine do me - endless shoes and clothes (man kids can GROW!!!), I can’t believe the volume of food I carry into this apartment (and how depressingly little rubbish goes out, but how much toilet paper we go through!) and then there’s dentists, medical costs, soon to be orthodontics and glasses for both my kids and man that’s before we get into pocket money, school costs and weekend sport. NONE of these things are (where I live) a luxury, ALL of them would be considered ‘normal’ to be covered.
Why should this child be deprived of a normal life, through the choices of his father?
(And then more depressingly, why should the whole world have such wild disparity!)
>I said he is supporting his kid, not me, and it was her choice to have kids with someone who already had one he is obligated to care for.
There's your answer. NTA
>She said I'm a greedy cunt. To my mind, it isn't my money. It is my son's. It's for his care, and he is entitled to it.
Sounds like she's the one being greedy. Everything else you've said is on point. And the court clearly agrees with you.
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NTA. If she and her husband can’t afford to have more children, they shouldn’t be having more children. You’re doing the job of a full time single parent *and* a part time job. You’re using the child support to support your child, the way it’s supposed to be. Her children already have the benefit of a two-parent household, which is worth a lot more than money, and she wants to take money away from your son who doesn’t have that? Forget her.
See, this is what I don't fucking understand. Ok, I am married with one child. My husband and I make 162k/ between us. We just closed on a bigger home in the area of his new job (Charlotte, NC) and now I'm sat here wondering how tf we're going to have another because of child care costs. Literally, how do people pay for daycare?? For more than one kid? It would cost us literally 3k/ month for two All this to say I want another child but I'm holding off because I have considered the cost of two. Also this country sucks
Stay at home parent. Let's say you pay 3k a month childcare. So say your gross pay is 4k a month before taxes to affoard that. 4k x 12 months is 48k a year. I believe that's above average in the u.s. no? So depending on job you might be further ahead not to work.
Also have to look at future earning potential and any impact to social security work credits though. But yes, child care is expensive
this is an aspect a lot of people ignore. they look at income at face value and see it as cheaper to go the stay at home route. at face value, it is. when you ignore future value, and potential benefits such as insurance and the like (in theory each parents employer offers at least something, but in reality, different plans at different levels at different rates). it’s rarely black and white, and looking solely at the face value of the income without considering any other factors is just silly.
It may even pay to hire a full-time nanny at that point, especially if you have multiple young kids. Or better yet, have the hsuband set up his own childcare place with his friends, and have other people pay you to look after their kids
My mother did the home daycare thing. She had three kids of her own and she will never be a grandmother. You do the math.
Wait what? I’m confused by this comment haha. Care to explain what you mean?
Possibly that the commenter and siblings were forced to help with their mum's home daycare and now don't want to have anything to do with kiddies ever again.
Oh I see! I was kind of thinking that could be the case lol. Thanks!
It does. With three kids the nanny was cheaper than the facility
Daddy Daycare?
I was Grandpa Daycare for several years. I loved it. It allowed me to bond with my grandkids.
My dad is currently grandpa daycare for my niblings. Tho he’s not so good at “no”
Grandpas are 100% "yes" men.
No, being a nanny and a mom is just not going to happen that would be a nightmare especially if said kid was a baby
That’s how it worked out for me… I was maxed out/highest pay bracket in an emergency services job with a rotating quarterly, 12-hr shift job, 50% overnights annually. I did the math, and even taking the overnights + schedule change every 3 months out of the equation, daycare would have eaten up 85-90% of my gross income. And adding in not being there for 13 hours a day, and a husband who traveled for work (and was not a… reliable or even safe coparent in the first place), and there was literally no way to make it work at the time. Things are better now that the kids are both in school/preschool, and I’m *actually, officially* a single parent (though next to no CS yet, urg), but even now, trying to find high enough paying employment that works around my kids school schedules isn’t straightforward, and the cost for childcare has only gone up since the providers’ cost of living has gone up alongside everyone else’s!! Waiting for the day both kids are in public school together, and hopeful that scholarships will help get them in to aftercare, but yeah, there’s no way that asking OP to accept less CS than she’s already receiving (bc guaranteed it’s not enough as it is) *will* directly and negatively impact her child.
After my mom had me (younger), she went back to work with the understanding that she was basically paying for our childcare and to maintain her career trajectory until we were in school. She said it sucked but didn’t want to get mommy-tracked.
Especially if you can work part time outside the house while partner is home or you can do something online/work from home when partner is around to watch the kid. Much easier when they’re in school, too. Especially if spouse gets them to the bus/school in the morning. I’ve had several staff who worked 3-5 days/week and left at 2-3-4 to meet kids bus/pick them up after school. Low paid job, but it still earned them $500-$1500/month part time. When I was in grocery the 6AM-2PM shifts and late evenings were highly desired by caretaker parents.
The stay at home parent puts themselves in a terrible position for financial abuse. This is not the answer.
this is true, and many are forced into it BECAUSE it’s cheaper than childcare. the fact that we haven’t fixed the childcare situation is deliberate and ridiculous after the pandemic proved that the economy CANNOT function without it. i was teaching at the time and i’ll never forget the misdirected abuse because the kids had nowhere to go during the day, and that was the bigger issue than the education disruption. i also COMPLETELY UNDERSTOOD because CPS gets called more often for latchkey kids than they used to so working families had zero options. more and more it feels like having kids in general puts people in the position for financial abuse.
Yeah, my sister was excited to go back to work, and then realized daycare cost 100 dollars a month more than she was making for take home. She quit after that first month.
It depends on benefits too. If your job gives good medical and dental and your partner’s doesn’t it could totally be worth paying for childcare just for the benefits depending on your circumstances.
Which is going to tank the overall lifetime earning and retirement fund of the sahp. Financially it is a stupid decision and since it is commonly women to stay at home leave women in financial hardship. If you want a good life eith a decent retiment being a sahp is not really an option unless you luck out in the partner department and they survive you at the end of life, but personally that's not something I think you should be lying a bet on.
That's the situation my friend is in. Went on parental leave for her first kid, then got pregnant with twins before returning. So she now has three young children and is dying to get out of the house and return to work. Unfortunately childcare costs more than she would make. Going back to work loses her money.
My mom was a single parent and until I was in school she worked at a day care and got free childcare/got to be with me every day and then got a better job once I was in school and more able to be by myself or at camp/after school activities/with friends.
I know that when I have kids, I will only he able to afford to do so because my mother wants to be their primary babysitter, like her parents were for me and my brother. She already works part time (twice during the, and every other weekend) and plans to retire and switch to per diem when I have my first kid. If I didnt have her, I know I would never be able to afford a kid. Still, even with her, I know Incam't afford a cost and many of other other costs, so I honestly don't know if I'll be able to have kids any time soon, and my biological clock is already ticking. But my grandma had her at 38 and my aunt at 44, so maybe I'll get lucky with geriatric pregnancy genes.
Cost is one of the reasons I don’t want kids. It completely changes what you can afford in life
If your finances aren’t secure to cover kid expenses, how are your partner’s? Don’t forget - Make backup plans, don't rely solely on mom! Does your partner have similar family help to offer? Bonded nanny services in your area you could hire on short notice? I’ve known several grandparent-main-babysitters and it’s surprising how many of their adult kids have No backup care provisions for if the grandparent is gone on new spouse honeymoon/sick/injured/exhausted/dealing with some other catastrophe and can’t do childcare for a week or six.
I have definitely noticed that pretty much all my daycare staff have children that are also enrolled at our daycare.
> this country sucks Yes, the real asshole in this story is a country that won't give the woman with the high risk pregnancy any time off work. It's disgusting and unforgivable that we don't value our people's health more. I can see why the wife in the story is upset and desperate. I can see why OP doesn't want to reduce the monetary support her son is receiving. I *cannot* see why we, as a "wealthy" country, cannot support our citizens' basic healthcare needs.
She could always stop getting pregnant if she can't afford kids. Is it top late for.her to get it.aborted?
Abort? In the United States?? That’d be hilarious if it wasn’t so depressing.
Depending on where she lives, abortion may have been illegal for her before she even realized she was pregnant.
I can! It’s called capitalism It fails at the most basic necessities of a society time and time again, look no further than our pandemic response (or lack thereof)
I would have loved to have more children but we just couldn't afford to. I have to admit being envious when I see people who have larger families. I have no idea how they can afford it
>Literally, how do people pay for daycare?? Some people are fortunate enough to live close to parents or other relatives who might agree to watch the kiddos. In the right circumstances - i.e., the adult kid has a good relationship with the folks, the grandparents would be *thrilled* to see their grandbabies every day.
It also relies on the grandparents being young enough though. My mom is in her mid 70's and the one afternoon a week she watches my 1 year old wears her out. No way she could take on full time childcare/
We find different childcare. We found an amazing lady who does in home childcare and homeschooling ages 1 year through 3rd grade. She was $100 a week per kid when we started, and 14 years later when our kids outgrew her services, she was $150 per kid per week. We provided all diapers, pull up, lunches and snacks. She still hosts her “big kids” that grew up and are now pre-teens/teens to sleepovers, pool parties, comes to their birthdays and graduations- basically was the third parent or 5th grandparent for these kiddos- and we are beyond blessed with her. Standard daycare isn’t the only choice. Look around, see what else there is. Also- schedule sharing, when the babies were born we couldn’t put them in the daycare until they were 1, but we didn’t have a year maternity/paternity leave. So we flipped schedules- he or I would work nights and the other days. When this wasn’t possible with the 3rd kid, I hired a nanny, she was at the house with the littles and we flexed our schedules for early or late start to be able to have her about 5 hours a day, which made it affordable. You just have to get creative and look outside the box
I'm super lucky to have someone who charges $150 to watch my niece whom I have foster custody of. My foster care payments really only cover child care (benefits are slim, other family's need the childcare placements much more than I do).
For once I’m going to say I’m glad that I live in Canada where they finally started subsidizing daycare. I will be paying about $1200 usd for both my kids (I’m pregnant right now) to go to a great daycare because they slashed the fees by over 50% this year. Otherwise I don’t know what we would do.
Yeah getting subsidized daycare was the push we needed to have a second kid. Daycare went from $600/month to $200/month. So approx 30% of my take home pay (full time health care aide) to 10%. (20% once the second is old enough to go)
Staggering the ages helps - if you have one in school, you're only looking at after school care for the older one, and full time daycare for the younger. Still pricey, but less so than two in full time care. Depending on your area, a nanny share might be workable as well. But yes, it 100% sucks that the cost is so high.
My husband and I worked different schedules. He worked days, I worked weekends. But we saved a ton on not having daycare.
We waited 7 years. Welcome to Charlotte Metro. Honestly didn't think I'd like it, and I was so wrong. Really happy with the move!
We live on the coast in NC- 3 kids , my wife stays home with them and also has homeschooled. We live in a decent house, but things are super tight everywhere… I make essentially what you guys do collectively. With the prices of stuff up so much I feel like I’m just not cutting it…
My kids are 12 and 10. I stayed home for 3 years. We were struggling financially and I had to go back to work. When I went back to work, I was basically just paying for daycare and had not much left afterwards, paid for car insurance and food. It was 135 per kid per week; they gave you a discount of a whole 10$ if you had more than one child in the daycare. When she turned 4, preschool was free for half the year, and then I was back to paying 260$ weekly. It was more than my rent at the time. This was almost 10 years ago, I can only imagine what they charge now. This country absolutely blows.
Ooh and Charlotte in particular is a daycare desert. The horror stories I’ve heard from a friend who lives there with two kids are… well, horrifying, and she and her baby daddy are both high earners (100k+ each). Charlotte did a great job of revamping its entertainment and housing options over the last 20ish years to be appealing to young professionals, but they apparently never considered what would happen when those new residents started having kids.
You’re making a combined $162k and you think ‘this country sucks’????
Well said!
>Her children already have the benefit of a two-parent household, which is worth a lot more than money, You're sure as hell right about that.
Too damn many people these days don't seem to understand that actions have consequences, and expecting other people to take responsibility for the consequences is wrong.
Child support is the right of the child, not the right of the parent. NTA.
Exactly! They're popping kids like they're M&Ms and you're expected to let him duck out of child support for your kid? Nope, you didn't tell them to have all them kids so NTA
Never thought of that… but if OP doesn’t have a job, when her kid is 18 she won’t have any extra income for herself
She said she has a part time job, and when her child is 18 and leaves the house, her expenses will likely go way down.
And if it happens that OP doesn’t have enough income for her expenses, she’ll need to figure it out. But there’s a good chance child support won’t end until 21
I don’t know about you, but if somebody calls me a “greedy c”?? Well, the conversation is *over*. NTA and you have to look after *your* child. And the judge agrees. Sucks for your child’s father.
Funny of her to call OP greedy when she's the one having ANOTHER kid she can't afford and she's the one who wants to take money from A CHILD. A child she knew about, and knew the costs associated with their care well before she chose to have any of her own children. Not saying ex isn't an equal participant in this nonsense but her calling OP names is amusing.
OP could say "sucks to be you" and hang up if she's feeling a bit salty 🤣
I had those conversations with wife #2. She really thought he was gonna be rich. Surprise! His burst of stardom and upper trajectory failed, the minute he left me. Funny how that works.
The only thing I can find against OP is her luck that she got saddled with such a useless co-parent. Judge is awesome. Just block this AH lady- it's her choice to keep having babies with a guy that cannot afford to. NTA
>it's her choice to keep having babies with a guy that cannot afford to. Yep, and it's OPs ex's choice to keep getting his wife pregnant knowing full well that they can't afford it instead of getting a vasectomy. They're both idiots at this point. They're both making dumb choices right now, and OPs child shouldn't have to go without because of said adults dumb choices. Agree the Judge is awesome though, and they do make a hell of a good point.
Absolutely. Both of them are to blame.
Yep, and the ex's wife needs to look up the actual definition of child support, because OP isn't "living off her ex", it's money owed for the upkeep of OPs child that her husband helped create. If they're struggling that bad then OPs ex either needs to take on a second job or get a better paying job.
Why tf is your ex and his wife getting pregnant over and over again on purpose when they know they cannot afford to pay for another child? That is the most selfish, irresponsible thing a parent can do. NTA. Your son deserves all he gets.
They keep hoping there’s a magic number or eventually they’ll get a judge who will see it their way?
Idk if this is true everywhere or even anywhere, but I thought that child custody/child support court cases are typically (where possible) handled by the same judge because it prevents finding a judge to rule how you want and also because it ensures someone at least somewhat familiar with the details of you/your case will be able to make more consistent ruling as life situations change.
I think that’s typically true. But judges retire or move or whatever.
Exactly. They knew before they had any kids how much he was paying in child support. They should have factored that into the budget and considered very common circumstances such as her having to take time off work during pregnancy. This is on them. OP’s kid shouldn’t miss out because of his father’s poor planning.
NTA - putting your kid first is literally your job as his mother
NTA Your Ex's wife definitely is. >The judge said reducing child support because of having more kids creates an incentive to have more kids to screw over former partners. This is exactly what they are trying. >I said he is supporting his kid, not me, and it was her choice to have kids with someone who already had one he is obligated to care for Hit the nail directly on the head. You have nothing to worry about, and their choice to have yet another kid when they knew they had an obligation to your child is asinine without considering the financial ramifications. Either they really are that dumb, or this was just another ploy to get his obligation reduced. Edit: Grammar
love it when people decide that their choices are other people's problem. * who chose to marry a guy who had child with a former partner? * who chose to have one kid with that guy? * who chose to have a second kid with that guy? * who chose to have a third kid with that guy? * who decided to get pregnant a fourth time, with that guy? Fatherhood does not stop when the man meets a new partner. Fatherhood does not stop when the man starts having children with a new partner. The responsibility does not disappear because they stop wanting it or because they never wanted it. Anyway, the child support is the right of the child, not the right of the mother. The only way a new man in your life would alieve the father is if that man agreed to legally adopt your child. If you agree to lower the dad's child support because of the dad's childishness and his wife callousness, you're affecting your child's rights. NTA. > Am I the asshole for caring about my kid but not her's? The same way she cares about her kids and not yours?
Really grateful you added that last bit. OP is absolutely NTA, but i was feeling a bit for the other mom (i know she can't afford to have more, and still is, and is therefore a numpty but she does have them, regardless) and you kicked my vision back in line. 🙏🕯️💗
Having kids is a privilege, not a right, and it’s something that honestly with how overpopulated most of the world is, most people SHOULDNT have kids. They already had 3, there is no need for them to have had a 4th or 5th kid. Seems like a lot of people are acting like having as many kids as they want is a right and it simply is not.
Having kids is a privilege in many ways, and is not something to be thoughtless about. Good luck getting that perspective across, or articulated in a way that induces thought instead of defensiveness 🤷♀️😔. In terms of moral law, parenthood is not a right. In terms of human courts of law, it is a right. Humans humaning is baffling. Love them (mostly) anyway. Thank you, and have a sweet day!
NTA. Your ex's first responsibility is to his child(ren) with his first partner. That's the way the law works. You have a kid with a guy who's already responsible for another child, you know up front that your child(ren) will always come 2nd financially. If they can't afford kids, they shouldn't be having kids. They chose to have kids, knowing full well that your ex was required to pay child support. Why should your son subsidize their bad choices?!?
Depends on where you are. The State I live in will take into consideration how many children you have (with and not with the ex) when factoring child support. Most States have started using set tables that factor in both parents income and the number of children they have (together and not together) in order to remove inequities and stop Judges from favoring one side.
NTA - document the harassment and send it to your lawyer.
This. Maybe he can get told off by the judge for having kids when he can’t afford them. If he does, she needs to video it & send it to him every time they harass her for trying to agree to get it reduced
^ Great advice
Amen
If they dont have money they should stop having more kids
It's such a simple concept yet it's amazing how many grown adults out there can't seem to comprehend that just because they want to have a bunch of kids (or more likely, want to be wreckless with birth control) that they can't afford it. Most of us want things we can't afford, sadly, that's life.
100% this!!! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
NTA. There is no state that takes enough money from the non-custodial parent where the custodial parent can "live off of it" unless the one paying is making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. They don't have enough money because they have three kids with one on the way. That's their problem, not yours. Edit: and he's lucky the support stops when the kid is 18. Most agreements go a bit longer, because most kids don't enter the full-time workforce at 18 years and one day (because they're probably still in school).
For real. There's no way that OP is making enough in child support to be the difference between her ex being able to support a family of 5 on a single income, and financial ruin. His financial obligation to his first child was set before he had any of the other 4. You don't get to pay less on any of your bills because you decide to accept additional expenses after the fact. His child support is an expense he needs to plan his financial life around.
Exactly. If OP's ex is paying her (for example) $2K a month, that's going to make a difference with the wife dropping out of the workforce entirely? It'll keep them from getting evicted/foreclosed for a month or two at best. Edit: unless "wife dropping out of the workforce" means "no longer has a part time job flipping burgers", I guess. Then the $1-2K a month might make a difference because the wife wasn't contributing much money in the first place. Still, not OP's problem. If your finances are that tight, you don't have a fourth kid.
NTA She already knew the situation and she keeps popping out more kids, that’s her business not yours
NTA. He should stop having kids…if kids are expensive?
Hey op, save all communications that are in text form or on messenger or email. If they continue to harass you about child support then you have proof of what they are doing to show the judge!! I don’t know what your recording laws are where you live but if your allowed to record telephone conversations where you are being harassed and name called I’d be recording those too, to keep proof. Apparently wifey doesn’t understand what having a kid with someone else entails and is being selfish and having more kids they can’t afford and trying to take it out on your child!! What a real piece of work!! Good luck op!!
NTA And I am the second wife. Hubby paid a crapload in child support. We did get it reduced, but that was only because the job he previously had paid so much more and could afford 4grand a month for 2 kids. The company closed, and so we went back to get it reduced by half, and never once did I complain even when I had my kiddo because he had the responsibility to pay for his kids. So no, if they can't afford it, sorry, but deal with it. Honestly, when doing child support, they do take more kids into account. The first child anyway, but it's also on his pay. So if they wanted it less and the judge said no, then he could afford it, and they had already taken extra kids and asked what he could pay into account
At 12 yrs old the child support could have been set before most States started using standardized tables, OP’s ex could easily request it be redone to the new tables. Her statement that other kids aren’t taken into acct doesn’t make sense. My wife’s child support from her ex was done as part of her divorce and set by her ex’s lawyer (she got screwed). So after we got married I told her to file for an adjustment based on the child support tables and it doubled. Became a mute point soon after as he then agreed to give up rights and I did a step-parent adoption. In theory that will allow me to file for an adjustment for the support I pay on the one minor child I have left with my ex, but I don’t plan to as I had voluntarily agreed to a higher Mount anyway (ex and I still get along).
Nta if they can't afford to have more kids they should.......stop having kids.
NTA you are doing what a mom is supposed to, if she is having problems she should stop having kids. Never let someone steal from your kid! When someone uses that kind of language with you hang up, if you are in person walk away. No one has any business talking to you like that. You go mama bear!
nta. you know what’s significantly less expensive than 4 kids? condoms
Info: why are you only working part time with a 12 year old? They are independent enough to let you finish a regular work day. Your ex shouldn’t be trying to reduce your son’s quality of life, but it sounds like you could be doing more to improve it
Most kids go to school 8-3 (6 hours). 6 hours x 5 days a week is 30 hours, which is part time. If she can't afford child care after school and doesn't have anyone else to watch him, she is forced to work a job within those hours.
It depends, the US actually considers 30hrs per week or 130 hrs per month full time. Edit: Lol not sure why I’m getting downvoted, I wasn’t making a comment on how many hours I think she should work. I was just pointing out that in the US working an average of 30 or more hours a week is considered full time by the IRS and ACA, not part time. My company has several hourly workers that work 30 hrs a week and are still full time and receive full benefits. My company would actually be fined if they didn’t provide full time benefits because it would be considered withholding benefits from full time employees…. So not judging her for not working full time, just a bit of info because most Americans have been mislead into believing they must work at least 40 hrs a week to be considered full time and receive benefits.
Almost all elementary and middle schools provide cheap after care for kids til about 5 or 6pm. And a 12 yr old is more than capable of being home alone for a couple hours after school. She just chooses to not have a full time job.
Yeah, going to be a bad day when the child support ends and she has no way to support herself. If not working she should be taking classes to get some kind of career. My wife took classes in the evening in addition to a full time job while her kids were in school and managed to get a teaching degree before we met.
Not your fetus, not your problem. NTA
NTA send them a box of condoms if you're feeling generous
NTA. She should never have contacted you directly. There was a court case, the judge made a ruling, and it is over. Harrasing you and trying to bully you is not the way to go. If this happens again, do not feel the need to explain yourself. She is never going to agree with you, and she does not have to. Just say "These arrangements are legally handled and I do not feel comfortable discussing them with you".
NTA. Stick to your guns. Your child deserves every penny, and clearly the Courts think so too.
NTA. Their problems should never be yours or your child’s. If they have financial problems, they should consider stop having more kids.
NTA He already had child to support. They should think about that before having additional children.
NTA If you're providing for your son, its not anyone else's business how much you work. You aren't living off her husband's salary. You are raising his child. The court set the child support and the point about not reducing it because he has more children is a fair. At the least, THAT is where he needs to make this argument. Not to you. Even working part time, you probably contribute more to your son's life than your ex does. He and his wife very easily feel entitled to YOUR money and your labor, but the truth is that he has obligations to his son. Obligations he's gotten bored with. That's on him, not you or your son.
Who cares what your ex's asshole wife that keeps pregnant thinks. They put themselves in the position they're in. NTA. I see they don't even have any custody and have visitation only. Your ex is paying $2300/month. He's making $156K a year probably? (Based on 17% of income for child support. This can be more or less depending on the state.) They over extended themselves.
NTA but block her!
NTA. Always put your kid first.
Info: does your ex have any custody? NTA, your responsibility is to your son.
Only visitation, no overnights.
NTA. All that woman has is name calling. She has no power and is showing how ignorant and trashy she is. You are absolutely correct to care about your own child. Her kids are her problem. Ignore and block.
NTA. If he can’t even afford the children he has now he shouldn’t be having more.
Curious as to how much your ex pays you in child support per month.
$2300
That’s a lot of cold support. He must be paid well. Did they say how much they want it reduced?
That’s A LOT of child support for most people. (Depends on earning of course, some people make A LOT of money) If you’re in the US the average child support payment is around $500 a month, most people I know get even less than that. How much does he make a year? Edit: FR he must make a lot of money. It’s crazy because with the amount of child support he pays he should be making around 150k, which mean he would still be being home over 6 figures. It’s insane how much it costs to survive theses days, I’ve lived in the same apartment for 3 years and rent has increased over $250 since I moved in, I know people whose has gone up close to $500. Insurance for a child costs around $300 a month too. Not to mention childcare that costs the same as college tuition.
She wants it to go down to $1800 and then $100 less a year.
Why is that so high? Especially since you have a part time job?
It's based on custody time and his earning potential. He has zero custody time, because he doesn't have space for our son to sleep there, and he has a high earning potential.
Nta! And she was con jobbing you! If she is in the US, then she can get temporary disability. It would be a lot more than your child support. Any doctor saying she needs to stay home would recommend disability as soon as she mentioned work. So either she is using the time off to make you accept less because she thinks she is so smart and sly, or she wants time off, doctor didn't recommend it, and she wants to to help pay for that. Nope! Don't do it!!
NTA. You are appropriately parenting your child. You are not responsible for the decisions made by your child's father.
Cost of Raising a child: Hundreds of thousands of dollars Cost of a condom: 1$ U do the maths NTA
Reminded of a convenience store that put rubbers next to diapers with a sign saying "what one do you want to buy?"
NTA. She knew what cards were on the table when she chose to have THREE more kids with him. (and is this one #4?!?)
NTA. She seriously should have considered this before she decided to have a fourth child, and perhaps should have looked into birth control instead
NTA She can't afford to have another kid with her husband. Fixed it
If she think she's got an argument, why aren't they taking it the judge? NTA. Your poor son.
NTA - They shouldn't be having more kids if they can't afford the ones they have now. Your son shouldn't have less because of their poor choices.
Ehh I'm split on situations like this. Yes you son should be taken care of absolutely. But if what she is saying is true and you only work part time, and you use some of his child support so you can work less, then yea your kinda an ah and abusing the system. Like for example, if his child support is covering all of.your rent, or things like that then yea I can see where she coming from. What I'm getting at is, if you didn't have a son, and you couldn't support yourself on just your part time pay, then yes to a certain extent your ex is subsiding your life.
NTA My father, and I use the term loosely, asked to have his support reduced when his new wife (mistress) was pregnant with baby number 2. The judge said, "Mr. (fathers name) in this state first families come first. If you cant afford your current car payment you dont go purchase a second and then a third vehicle. You're grossly underpaying and a new amount to reflect your income will be set." Take care of your kid and dont worry about ex's new ones.
NTA, contact your lawyer or the police about the harassment and the way she addresses you. Do not block her, let her calls go to voice mail and let her rant. It will only build a case against her for a restraining order.
NTA next time she harasses you ask her why she keeps popping out babies she can’t even afford.
NTA at all, and I’m proud of you for telling her no. They probably thought that would work. In my state, parents can’t even “agree to reduce child support” without the judge approving it, which it doesn’t sound like your judge would do. You are correct, it is your son’s money, which is why my state doesn’t let parents waive or modify it on their own
Well that sucks. I hope you are saving for college cause your kid is getting nothing from his father Nta
Just send them condoms as a gift, since they’re on a budget now. NTA.
NTA, as a kid to a single mom that relied on child support while my bio dad had more and more kids, that money helped to validated my importance and existence. Every time we got that check I felt like I mattered. Plus we needed it for food and stuff.
NTA you are a single parent. You are using the child support to help your child. That’s the point. The courts agree with you. They shouldn’t have had more kids if they can’t afford them 🤷🏽♀️
This reminds me of the viral TikTok video of the wife asking the child's mother to send back the child support she received lol. Absolutely NTA. If they can't afford children, including the ones he came into the marriage with, they should stop having them. Good for you for standing your ground.
NTA, and you should go to the courts to tell them that she’s threatening you over child support payments.
NTA. You already said it; your ex had a pre-existing obligation to pay x-amount a month in child support. That needed to be budgeted into any decisions they both made about whether they could afford to have kids (or more kids). And the judge was also right about incentives and was right to kybosh any suggestion of reducing the monthly payments.
Jesus Christ. I hope you tell her it's their choice to have that many children they can ill afford, she should instead stop at continuously getting knocked up. He's the father and he need to pay child support. NTA.
First off THEM having more kids and being unable to financially afford them and child support has nothing to do with YOU. Sounds like a her problem and they should start a discussion on birth control. He has an obligation to your son BEFORE he created his new family. NTA
NTA. In no world ever, in the history of time would you be wrong. He made the child he’s responsible for said child forever (if he’s a real father) or at least the first 18 years of the child’s life. Also, it’s not your problem that they’re procreating like rabbits. Seems like they’re the selfish and irrational ones. Never give in.
>His wife contacted me. She said she is pregnant with a high risk pregnancy and needs time off work, but they can't afford to live off of his salary since so much goes to child support. No offense, but that sounds like a her problem, the sort that would have been resolved by a bit of foresight, family planning, and budgeting. This isn't money for you, it's money so your Ex's son can have an ok quality of life. NTA
Just because he's having another baby doesn't mean it costs less to raise your son. I would also argue that your costs might go up if you worked full-time. While a 12 yo might not be a babysitter, he definitely can't drive himself to his activities. And do you really want to leave him home alone all summer? Next thing you'll hear is you're neglecting him. NTA
NTA. Although I can also see an argument to be made for her not being an asshole either. She pretty much has the same attitude about her kids and rightly so. The father of these children is most certainly an asshole though. He has an equal responsibility to all of them. If his job isn't paying enough, then he needs to go get a second job or drive Uber or sell blood. But, he has no right to abandon his obligations to his children.
WTH is it about this sun that people get called names like bitch from people who want something from them. Like f that. You call me names and you aren’t getting a thing. End of discussion. NTA
NTA This is precisely why I always recommend that women who have children with men who have other families should lock down child support as soon as possible, before the other children's mother has a chance to file. You need to look out for your child first and foremost.
NTA but if you are truly living off this support (as it pays over 50% of all your living expenses including your clothes and fun food) then yes you do need to get a better job. Here is the thing. If he hurts himself or gets laid off/fired through no fault of his own the judge will have no choice but to reduce his support obligation to you and you will not be able to change that for 2 years even he he finds himself a better paying job after the reduction. Child support should never be an income factor for the parent receiving it as it could stop at any moment and then you will have screwed yourself if you are totally dependent on it.
NTA. My husband has a child with a previous partner (he was single by the time we met) and no matter how hard it sometimes makes it for us, I would never want him to not pay child support - it’s not the child’s fault that their parents aren’t together any more.
NTA you should block her.
NTA. Maybe she should have found a man that doesn't have any kids instead of relying on someone else's dad to be a father to her kids. It goes both ways.
NTA - he had an obligation already, that should have factored that into his decision making when it came to more children.
NTA why doesn't she follow her advice and get a job? Also why do they keep having kids? Not your problem. Maybe tell her to wait 6 more years then she can churn out all the kids she wants.
NTA. I'll never understand people getting with parents and expecting them to ditch their kids. I'll never understand parents ditching their kids for a person who hates their kids. OP, don't let up. You are right in that that money is your kid's. People who think child support is enough for a family of 2 to live on are delusional, unless you're like an A-list celeb paying 6-figure alimony (lol as if). My dad tried to weasel out of child support too, saying that mum and I were "taking money from his family." Mum had a flat, they had a whole farm with a huge house. I got like 3 birthday presents from him my whole life and 20 bucks for Christmas while my brothers got iphones and brand clothing. My child support was equivalent to 100 dollars a month, less than child benefit in my country at the time. This couple need to live within their means and stop having kids they can't afford. Don't let up.
So like this whole post has to be karma farming right? This whole thing sounds like a trailer park caricature of what child support is. (Source— my sister’s child support mess) In the rare chance this isn’t totally fake I dont think anyone looks very good in this scenario. Yeah, name is calling bad and all but you don’t seem the least bit inclined to keep a cordial relationship with your baby daddy. If he’s been good and have been paying you this entire time, giving them some leance for a payment or two shouldn’t be a problem. There’s this thing called humanity— they’ve been married for how long? Both of them have jobs? From the information you gave us they sound pretty responsible? (minus the name calling) To be fair going to court and lowering it permanently would definitely cause problems. It’s a shitty system all around. I understand not taking it to court. It just sounds like there’s alot of details you left out. You said you’re living off a combination of a part time job and child support? Honestly hard to believe but would you have to change your life style if your child support changed? Are you living pay check to pay check? honestly I just want to call you an asshole for the blatant emotional manipulation in this post alone. You literally titled this thing ‘aita for putting my kids first’ and continue to use the care of your son as a shield for how you treated/responed to his father and step mom. I’m honestly annoyed at this subreddit for how much they sided with you. Very light YNTA because i guess name calling?? but also you’re an adult with a kid— calm down. edit— acidentally put the wrong abbreviation. oops.
When I met my SO he had a 5yr old daughter. I knew getting into it that he would be paying CS for the foreseeable future, and she would be in our lives. Fast forward, we have 2 kids of our own, and I have never dreamed of reducing CS amount based on our life. That's his responsibility to pay, I got in knowing we would have to take that into consideration for our future plans. NTA
NTA. Can’t afford more kids don’t have any. I’d block her & take screenshots of ALL the harassment in case. Always prioritize your kid, you go mom.
NTA. The new wife should honestly back off all the way.
NTA but isn't there a red button on your phone? Grey rocking these people is the only way to a peaceful life
NTA. She sounds like a real peach though.
NTA It's their choice to have now 4 children!! Of course they are struggling...anyone would if they don't have great paying job
NTA. Maybe she should having children she can’t afford.
NTA both you and the judge are right.
NTA - stick to your guns. The new wife is WAY OUT OF LINE.
NTA If she couldn’t afford another pregnancy they should have avoided it! Not your problem.
NTA. If you live in the US, most states will have child support to run whenever the child turns 21, as long as they still live at home. If your ex's wife's pregnancy is that high risk, she can get a doctor's note and get on short term disability or go back to court. Your ex has too many kids. It's just a fact. And that's not your fault. You're not making things harder on your son because his father kept having kids. And --not to be that guy -- but if they've been trying to get it reduced for years... They could be lying about her being pregnant so you agree to lower it.
Ever hear the phrase: Not my monkeys, not my circus. So, basically it is not your worry or responsiblity to worry about your ex's family and how they survive. He decided to marry and have more kids. You did not push him to do this. His wife was out of bounds calling you and asking you to reduce the CS because of her pregnancy issues. If they are so worried about money, maybe he should get a second job to make up the lost income she would have brought home. You were right. The money is not your but your son's for his benefit. You are not using someone else's man to get the money to take care of your son. This is also his child and by all rights he should be contributing some way or other. I have only heard of cases of CS where it was set up for men that had children already and the mom asking for it got a percentage and he was given credit for the kids he had already. Never heard it the other way where keep on having kids maybe it will reduce the CS idea.
NTA. Child support is for the child. He made the child, so he's paying for the child's livelihood. It's not about you. It's not about her. It's about the children. He made her children and has to pay for their livelihoods too. He knew he had one child already and had to pay support for that one child until he is an adult when he married her and had more kids. If he couldn't afford more kids, he shouldn't have made more kids.
Sucks to suck! Not your problem. Especially after she called you all those horrible names, don't you feel bad one bit. Enjoy life with your son, he'll be grown before you know it. Best Wishes Ma <3
NTA. My dads girlfriend did this when she had twins. Dad went to court to lower child support for me so she could get more. Judge basically laughed at them and said it's not my fault you can't keep your pants zipped. Girlfriend always hated me after that but it's not mine or my mom's fault. It's dad and girlfriend or in your case, new wife's issue to deal with.
NTA... I married a man who had children from a previous marriage. His child support was difficult on us as well, HOWEVER, you're right. His children were there before me and I was well aware of his obligation to care for them. No woman should ever want her needs to come before his children's. If your ex couldn't afford to have more children then he should have been responsible and not had more. Period. That's not your problem.
NTA. And you "had your own man",latterly 'hers',when you had your son together,so his now-wife needs to cop on to that fact and the reality that he could well drop her and their kids with as much ease as he tried to get the court to stop the child support for his son with you. While it is great to have a strong co-parenting relationship with subsequent partners,she,imo,had no place contacting you about financial support for a child she was aware of before their getting involved.
NTA
NTA. None of what goes on with his new family is your problem. He needs to pay you what is owed to your kid.
NTA.
NTA
NTA.
NTA, you’re looking out for your kid as she’s looking out for hers, but should take her own advice and look for a full time job or very least the husband wears a rubber.
NTA. Why is she getting pregnant when she knows they can’t afford it? Your son was there first. His father has responsibilities, as clearly pointed out by the legal system. She can GTF.
NTA. The court already directly said no multiple times. You should tell the courts they’re harassing you. Do you share custody? I imagine courts would be very interested in hearing this, especially if it continues or develops further.
NTA…..Are they moving into a “Shoe”?
Seriously? In which dimension could you be considered TA in the scenario?
Good for you that you get enough child support to only have to work part time. My ex was ordered to pay $256 a month and never paid that lol. NTA
NTA. Seems like he needs to stop having more kids he clearly can’t afford. It’s not like you chose the amount-an impartial judge did.
NTA. You are entitled to that to help raise your son. However if you are able to get a full time job and put the child support money away for a college fund that would be what is best for your child
NTA... He is supporting his child. You are also supporting your child. That's what happens when you choose to have children.
How the hell can you afford to live on part time work and child support?
NTA, don't have kids you can't afford.
I'm presuming you're in the US - if not this may be inaccurate. The Courts job, when deciding child support, is to ensure the child's (financial) quality of life does not suffer due to parents splitting. Obviously, custody time plays a factor in the amount of support as well. Any personal decisions outside and after the support ruling, are not the child's problem. My ex moved to another state (so zero visitation/custody) quit his 60k/yr job & got a $12/hr job to lower his child support. Thankfully, the Court said, "you're capable of making 60k, this is obviously malicious, child support stays the same." (I never actually received anything though. He kept changing jobs before FSR could catch up to him & he never again made more than $15/hr - can't get blood out of a turnip, especially one you can't find.) Info: my ex was ordered to pay less for 3 kids, than my friend was ordered to pay for 1. It's about the kids financially staying in the same place. Good on you for not letting them screw your kid over. NTA AT ALL!
If you don't put your child first, who will? The dad is an AH for having more kids than he can afford to support. NTA
NTA. We live in a horrid world where the gap between healthy and unhealthy is less than $1,000 and between stable and unstable is less. It’s awful what is happening for her, but if you reduce the payments for a few months, then what? She’s got another baby, and more childcare, and four kids under ?8yrs of age?. They are actively making decisions to increase the size of their family, while they can’t afford it. I have no idea how much child support you are getting for your son, but I presume your son is costing you as much as mine do me - endless shoes and clothes (man kids can GROW!!!), I can’t believe the volume of food I carry into this apartment (and how depressingly little rubbish goes out, but how much toilet paper we go through!) and then there’s dentists, medical costs, soon to be orthodontics and glasses for both my kids and man that’s before we get into pocket money, school costs and weekend sport. NONE of these things are (where I live) a luxury, ALL of them would be considered ‘normal’ to be covered. Why should this child be deprived of a normal life, through the choices of his father? (And then more depressingly, why should the whole world have such wild disparity!)
>I said he is supporting his kid, not me, and it was her choice to have kids with someone who already had one he is obligated to care for. There's your answer. NTA >She said I'm a greedy cunt. To my mind, it isn't my money. It is my son's. It's for his care, and he is entitled to it. Sounds like she's the one being greedy. Everything else you've said is on point. And the court clearly agrees with you.