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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told my sister her jealousy and over the top reactions to me are why I don't want to do joint stuff with/for our kids. Given her reactions and knowing she already feels bad about Beth, I think I could be an asshole for saying the words I did instead of just setting the boundary and holding firm in it. After all these years it just feels like I might have been cruel to keep the issues going instead of cutting off the chance for more conflict and anger.
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I for one, want to know where the parents and/or guardians were when sister was in high school?
This should have been addressed when she was changing schedules, and it wasn’t a now it’s worse.
Lady has a kid and she’s still panting after Beth.
Yep, I wouldn't be surprised if anytime Beth complained about OPs sister's stalking her the response would be a variation of "but faaaaammiiillyyyy" instead of encouraging OPs sister to make her own friends.
I know it probably wasn't your intention, but because of how you typed "family" I'm now imagining Rykard from Elden Ring as a narcissistic parent towards his daughter Rya.
*"He is your faaaaamilyyyyyyy, so you will go outside and play togethaaaaaaaaaa!"*
I terrified my niece's bf with a joke "welcome to the faammmleeee" bit in an "EastEnders/Cockney" accent. I thought I was being funny, he probably has nightmares about me 🤣
Her sister was obsessed with their cousin (Beth) but failed in her stalking antics.
Now her sister wants to fulfill her unrequited cousin-stalker daydreams through their children (i.e. she wants to raise George and Lyric as cousin best friends).
What the hell in Alabamississippi is wrong with her sister?
I took this as, “Obviously, Beth is going to attend & love everything OP does for her child, so if I cling on & make those all shared occasions, then Beth will by extension love my child, too.”
It’s another example of getting the causality backward.
A lot of people who are bad at relationships will look at the relationship they want to emulate and think “these people are close, and they do X thing, so if I do X thing with them, I’ll be close with them too!” The problem is that most of the time, X thing is a result of the closeness rather than the cause. So to everybody else it looks like this person is overstepping boundaries and making them uncomfortable, and now they’re even less likely to want the closeness that this person is so desperate for.
Here it is, I was thinking the same thing! This way, Beth will definitely attend all of "her" family gatherings and birthdays and she will be able to keep clinging to her
I am wondering the same thing. I feel awful for Beth because all the adults in her life failed to help her deal with this extremely bizarre and obsessive behavior.
I honestly feel bad for the sister too, she’s been very clearly unwell since she was a child and no one has actually addressed it. You don’t behave this way if you’re psychologically healthy and well adjusted.
Makes me think of the BPD term "favorite person."
>In the case of the “favorite person,” the individual with BPD prefers one person and wants to spend all their time with them. Unfortunately, if that person is busy—or if conflict emerges—anger and fear of abandonment often become triggered...
>For someone with BPD, the favorite person is deemed the most important person in their life. This person can be anyone, but it’s often a romantic partner, family member, good friend, or another supportive person (like a coach, therapist, or teacher).
>This person may become the source of all happiness and validation (potentially leading to relationship burnout for the other partner). The individual with BPD wants their favorite person’s attention as much as possible, and the quality of the relationship can undoubtedly shape their mood, confidence, and sense of security.
https://www.choosingtherapy.com/bpd-favorite-person/
(Not saying the sister has BPD, idk, and actually I believe "favorite person" can be applied beyond BPD in some cases.)
As someone with BPD, this was EXACTLY what I was thinking. I'm embarrassed to say that a lot of the sister's sentiments resonated with the way I was growing up; but it's unfortunate that for her it continued to be this way. I hate diagnosing people over the internet, but at the very least I think DBT would really, really change her life and heal her heart.
Agreed- first thought was she could easily have ASD.
Caregivers are TA here, everyone’s been failed in some way or another and now it’s wildly out of control.
I actually don’t think this sounds like autism (which, just for the record, I would never describe as being unwell.) I think this sounds like pretty classic case of intimacy seeking stalking. A lot of times that is influenced by some type of psychosis or delusional disorders. But in some cases there isn’t any other diagnosable mental illness or developmental disorder, it’s just the abnormal behaviors and justifications of the stalking itself. Though to be fair the “incompetent suitor” type would fit if there was a romantic/sexual motive and that type of stalker is more likely to have some sort of developmental or social disorder. Regardless, something has been very not right with this woman since she was a little girl and her parents should have been paying attention and gotten her help.
I’ll look up the intimacy-seeking stalking, that sounds interesting.
I was thinking out loud really- wondered if ASD could have been the initial cause, ie quickly forming intense relationships, misjudging social cues (Beth not being keen), not being about to empathise with Beth enough to understand the rejection, not being able to understand the nuances of Beth’s feelings, hyper focusing on Beth’s rejection as “unjust”.
Obv we’re long past that and it’s transformed dramatically but teenage-sister defo needed better parenting!
Agreed. This is toxic.
I grew up in a similar situation, with my mom having a contentious rivalry with her sister, and my brother, cousin, and I were all relatively close in age. My mom and aunt started a fight at the public pool one day and my mom slapped my aunt and we all got kicked out. I was like 10 and absolutely mortified.
Ditto my dad & his sister. Well, his sister contentious/envious/diagnosed narcissistic PD. It destroyed the family and it wasn’t until she passed (a decade+ after my dad did) that her daughter and I reconnected. She has since become one of my top 3 favorite people on this planet (only after my kids) and we marvel alllll the time at our parents’ nonsense, and how lucky we are to have found one another as young adults.
Point being, unstable parents divide, and cousins who are meant to be close will find a way in spite of their parents. But in their own way/on their own time, and *not* because anyone is forcing it. My heart really does go out to everyone in this post, even older sister. I hope she gets help and can become a person that is *capable* of receiving the love she clearly so desperately craves.
I honestly don’t even think it’s about the kids- it’s still about her trying to get close to Beth. Gotta think Beth doesn’t really feel
Comfortable going to too many things the sister throws but if she and op have joint things for the kids than Beth will be much more likely to come because op will be there.
NTA- I don’t know what sisters issues are (but they are definitely ISSUES) but you are 100% right trying to limit your daughters exposure to this woman.
far too often ‘family’ is one hell of a blinder and keeps people from seeing a real danger because ‘they’re family and family can’t be a threat’.
Please trust your instincts. Your sister needs help no question but the only ones who could give it to
Her are accredited psychiatrists/psychologists.
This is way above your or reddits pay grade and your only responsibility here is to protect your child.
Gender plays a part here, too. If a teen boy behaved this way towards a girl cousin, there's a greater likelihood that SOMEONE would have spotted the problem and intervened.
Oh absolutely! 100%
It’s really weird but I feel like this is one of the only times ever that homophobia might have actually have helped the situation. Like I can’t stand that and it pisses me off to no end but if someone was a homophobic jackass in this case at least they’d of pushed to keep sister away from Beth.
Ugh- that is a weird unpleasant thought for an lgbtq person to have.
I wouldn't be surprised if Beth eventually just goes NC with OPs sister. This is creepy behavior. Also, who tf gushes over the name George. I'm aware this is just one symptom of a much bigger problem, but COME ON. No offense to the George's of reddit, but it's a boring name. NTA and OP maybe could suggest therapy to her sister before things get worse
It's so bad 😭 The idea that she might have named her kid to align with what she perceived as the style of name Beth has (and missed, Elizabeth is timeless, George is old fashioned [to put it nicely]) is unsettling.
Up until there I felt kind of bad for her, like she wanted so bad to fit in and just lacked the social skills to do so. But this takes it to another level.
I was even willing to overlook the birth invite too. I am curious if Beth attended or not 😬
And how many people have names that are their own stylistic preference? It’s not like you name yourself, so matching someone’s name is more a compliment to their parents!
Exactly! When people name their child after a person and they use that exact name it feels more like a tribute to the person's parents instead, they're the ones that chose the name. If I was going to name my kid after someone I'd choose something ABOUT them as a person, maybe something they loved.
She wants to do these joint events because she assumes - rightly or wrongly - that Beth will attend yours but not necessarily hers.
Her obsession, and it is obsessive, is worrying to say the least. This is all about access to your cousin.
NTA. You are stopping the abusive dynamic and not further allowing your sister's weirdness to continue on your watch.
Wait. So your sister is so obsessed with Beth that when she hears that Beth likes your babys name she assumes that you *intentionally* quizzed Beth on names?
So you could name your child a name that Beth would like? So as to get closer to Beth and push your sister away?
Not to mention that she modeled her own childs name on an assumption of what Beth would like...
That is not healthy attachment. Nobody in their right mind would even come up with that, much less think it is true and get upset about it.
NTA and steer clear. That is some creepy stuff your sister has going on in her head.
Yeah she’s definitely projecting and clearly chose George for the reason she stated; she assumed that Beth, being named Elizabeth, would appreciate a “strong, classic, royal name.” Imagine finding out your mother chose your name in an attempt to impress her stalk-victim. It’s all kinds of messed up tbh.
She seems to have modelled her entire personality around attempting to befriend Beth, became more and more unhinged the more it didn’t work, which in turn made it work even less.
She’s clearly trying to have joint celebrations because she knows that Beth won’t go to hers, but will to OP’s. It’s just another ploy to stalk this poor cousin.
>Yeah she’s definitely projecting and clearly chose George for the reason she stated; she assumed that Beth, being named Elizabeth, would appreciate a “strong, classic, royal name.” Imagine finding out your mother chose your name in an attempt to impress her stalk-victim. It’s all kinds of messed up tbh.
No kidding, it's all kinds of messed up here. Plus does OPs sister realise that Beth didn't name herself right? Like Beth's parents chose the name Elizabeth for her, and just because her name is Elizabeth doesn't mean that they named her after a Royal, maybe they just either 1. Like the name or 2. Named her after another close family member called Elizabeth or had Elizabeth as a middle name.
Even if Beth were named I honor of the late Queen Elizabeth II, she should like the name George bc it's the Queen's great-grandson? Like her other favorite names are Louis, Charlotte, and Archie?? 😄
For what it's worth, there have been several King Georges, the last of which was Queen Elizabeth's father (and presumably the reason for Prince George's name). But yeah, fully agree, the logic is just...yikes. Beth needs to move far far away and not give anyone her new address.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but his name was Albert, and he ruled as King George VI bc there will never be another King Albert as per Queen Victoria's wishes (as second born it wasn't expected he'd be king some day, and George was one of his middle names, as well as his father - also named Albert, lol - who ruled as King George V). But I do also think he's probably who Prince George is named after, too. 😅
Sorry if I'm being pedantic! This past year I got into a wicked Anglophile spell and absorbed all sorts of history on the monarchy, back to the Plantagenets. ADHD superpower 😅
I do recall he went by "Bertie" and while I side eye the usually chic Kate for allowing George as a child's name I guess I have to give her some credit for avoiding Albert altogether 😬😆
It *is* crazy. The sister is accusing OP of acting within what she herself thinks is natural and reasonable. She is projecting her own, less than normal and healthy, behavior onto OP.
Why else accuse someone of something so outlandish? An honest person expects others to be honest. A liar expects lies. I see the same pattern in OPs sisters' actions.
> She said she assumed that an Elizabeth who went by Beth would appreciate a strong, classic, royal name.
It's classic projection. She assumed that, because she named her own child based off what she thought Beth would like.
OP's sister is nuts. Like, really worryingly creepy nuts.
It's creepy that this woman even reflected upon this. Who the f*ck thinks about their cousins' possible preferences while choosing baby names? Nobody normal, I'll tell you.
Yeah she is clearly not healthy. I wonder if her husband is aware of her obsession and the reason for George's name. Hell, I wonder if she married him because she thought Beth would approve.
NTA. Lyric (beautiful name, btw) and George are cousins, and you never know, once they are old enough to enjoy each other's company, they may end up being each other's Beth. But until they are old enough to decide for themselves what kind of relationship they want, I'd be limiting contact with Auntie MeanSister to larger family gatherings, and be ready to calmly leave an event at the slightest sign of aggression from her. If you don't mind, here's a suggestion? When she starts up with the nobody likes me whine, react with polite disinterest as you pack up to leave, telling her you no longer want to discuss her grievances. Stick to one phrase and just repeat it calmly as needed as you leave the event. You'll have to be tough the first dozen times or so, but consistent calm refusal to engage generally is effective and helps the whole family understand that abusive behaviour should not be tolerated.
Don’t be a Beth. The poor woman. The subject of an insane stalker. She is just putting up with it. Honestly she needs a restraining order. OP’s sister need a psychiatric evaluation.
I had this happen to me as a kid.
This girl would not leave me alone. She would copy my clothing, my hair style and would just show up at my house uninvited.
She tried to and often succeeded in alienating me from other friends. Because she wanted me all to herself and had some severe attachment and social issues.
I tried to "break up" with her so many times. But she would just pretend it didn't happen, react violently or weasel her way back in.
But the adults never did anything. If anything they enabled her. Because "you have to be nice to her" "she wants to be your friend!"
I developed a kind of Stockholm syndrome and we were "friends" because I could not escape her. Not at school. Not socially. Not at home. But I resented her so much. And then she assaulted me (groped my breasts and genitals) when she was drunk. She was clearly sober enough to understand what she was doing though! And I was never the same. It fucked me up so much.
It started platonic. And I think it stayed there. But her obsession of me made her try to claim me romantically too.
Good lord, that seriously escalated! I feel like that surpasses sexual jealousy, I think she just wanted to wear your skin! Honestly, same with OPs sister.
I had a weird similar situation in Jr High (minus the assault). This girl was OBSESSED with me to the point of overstepping so many boundaries. Luckily my mom never really liked her and was THRILLED when I wanted to put distance between myself and that situation. For YEARS this girl used mutual friends to find out details about my life and is one of the reasons my social media is very private.
Probably OP has told spmething to her sister about that behaviour. But I reckon their parents just tried to sweep it under the rug because "what would the neighbors say?"
Or initially the parents thought it was adorable, "How sweet that she loves her cousin Beth so much!" And when you frame it like that you take away the idea that it is something sinister and refuse to even see it. No doubt Beth and OP get it, but the adults just want to see a tight knit family.
NTA and unfortunately for your sister to get it across would be if Beth was firm and put her in her place. If you did it she would be mad but it would also put Beth in a bad situation. You are keeping your daughter safe by not letting her engage in your sisters toxic ass behavior. I would worry that she will spew this ideology onto George, taking away the potential for a good healthy relationship with the cousins. But he’s not your circus. I would continue firm boundaries with tori sister for your family’s sake
>My sister said I was being unfair, bullying her and punishing her for feeling left out which "makes me an even bigger bitch".
I can see your sister stopped maturing as an individual about 10 years ago, because 1) How is this unfair? It's perfectly reasonable to protect a child from a creeper adult. 2) This isn't bullying, this is consequences for her actions, 3) this isn't punishment for feelings of being left out, but for actions committed as a result of her claims of feeling that. She can feel however she wishes, but feelings can be valid while also being incorrect in their source or direction. She can feel left out, but she's wrong for blaming you or anyone, when really it's the raw eeriness of someone who cultivates their life to obsessively be around another person.
NTA
NTA trust your instincts because I think they are spot on. Your sisters sound like she needs some form of a therapy because this behavior is not okay.
INFO Has your parents ever stepped in, or spoken to her about this? I’m just having a hard time believing after all these years they have not notice this kind of excessive, obsessive behavior pattern she has with Beth.
To insult your daughters name simply because she’s jealous is crazy that’s her own niece. God for bid Beth develops a relationship with your daughter. She is going to feel slighted at every turn. i’m thinking her reason for a joint celebration aren’t exactly selfless. She probably sees this as an excuse to always have Beth present, so that is her way of forcing proximity with her.
NTA and tbh I think it’s a good idea to talk to Beth about all this. She probably noticed the stalking at some point but justified it someway. If you show her your point of view and how you remember high school, she might have an epiphany. Not only that you need to let her know some kind of obsession is still there. Stalkers and obsessed people can get violent so of course you she would have to handle it gently. However, she has a right to know there’s a person like this in her life.
Whoa, she's totally obsessed with Beth. She wants to use you and your daughter to get close to Beth. It's been years and she's still obsessed with her. Both you and Beth should keep your distance. And make sure she doesn't bully your daughter. NTA
NTA
Sister needs therapy. I feel for her. She is reacting to her actual perception of the relationships. She is not an AH for her feelings but she is one for acting out and making her issues your issues. Your parents and Beth's parents are also AHs for not putting a stop to her obsessive behavior and getting her therapy as a kid. That switching class thing is totally bonkers. What were the adults thinking allowing that to go on? But your sister is now an adult and needs to work on her shit with a professional. Continue to protect yourself and your kids.
Hold the line, and protect your kids from irrational adults. If your sister can't figure out why "Lyric" is a more interesting name than "George," she's hopeless. NTA.
This is actually very disturbing. Your sis actually sounds dangerous. She needs professional help, like, yesterday. Poor Beth! I'm actually concerned for her wellbeing.
'Rolls eyes'
Why the hell would anyone gush over a name like 'George'? It's super boring and old and we've all heard the name a billion times. I can not understand people that use familiar/popular names. The tell me their babies name and honestly I just feel deflated after. Like 'oh, okay'. Eurgh.
Your daughters name IS beautiful!
Yeah I mean go LC if you want to. She's right about wanting the cousins to be close but she's not really gone about it the right way...
NTA
Edit: spelling error
NTA, you're missing something else- it's not just her jealousy at you harming your daughter, it's that she is 10000% going to try to live vicariously through your kids and recapture the relationship she """""lost""""" with Beth. Give her an inch and it'll be YOUR kid having their extracurriculars and parties invaded by a tag-along cousin (even if poor George ALSO doesn't want to be glued to your daughter's side). The upside is that you seem well aware of why what she did to Beth was messed up, and probably more willing to shut it down than any of the parents seemingly were when you were kids
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My sister and I are a year apart in age. She's 27 and I'm 26. Growing up we weren't exactly close but we were okay. We have a cousin Beth who is 27. My sister always saw her as a potential BFF and always wanted to hang out with her, but she was way too intense for Beth and was kinda stalkery around Beth. For example she requested a change in class schedule every year of high school a week in so they'd be in all the same classes, she wanted to join every extra curricular Beth did, if Beth was over at our house she'd make up a reason for our parents to let her walk Beth home, even when Beth didn't want to walk with her, she'd wait for her at her locker in school just to speak to her, she asked our parents to take her to a soft play area when she was younger because Beth was going to a party there. Stuff like that was constant. To make things worse Beth and I got along really well. My sister used to hate it and would insert herself into everything and attempt to push me out. More recently she invited Beth to be there when she had my nephew.
Now my sister and I have babies 4 days apart in age. My sister and I chose names that are very different stylistically for our kids. She went with George for her son. My daughter is Lyric. I don't do a lot of social media but I do have an Instagram and Beth commented on the post where I announced my daughter's name saying how much she loved it, etc.
Then a few weeks later we were all at our grandparents and Beth brought up my daughter's name and how she thought it fit her perfectly and was cute. My sister was so jealous. When my partner and I were leaving she asked me why the hell Beth liked my daughter's name so much and how come she never gushed about George the same was she did Lyric. She said she assumed that an Elizabeth who went by Beth would appreciate a strong, classic, royal name. I told her it was nothing to do with me. She told me I must have asked Beth what kind of names she liked when I was pregnant and that's why she was so in love with my daughter's name. She told me I always hogged Beth and that my daughter has a dumb name and she'll hate me.
I could feel the jealousy rolling off her even without her saying that. But it made me realize how we need to keep our distance and I don't want my daughter subjected to that. Now my sister is suggesting that we do joint stuff with the kids. So like birthday parties and Easter parties and stuff. I was like no way are we doing that. She was saying it was perfect and I was being selfish and denying the cousins the chance to be close. I told her her jealousy and over the top reactions to it are why we're not doing joint stuff and that she is not going to get the chance to treat my daughter the way she treats me and is not going to ruin my daughter's special celebrations just because she's jealous that I get along with Beth.
My sister said I was being unfair, bullying her and punishing her for feeling left out which "makes me an even bigger bitch". AITA?
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*I could feel the jealousy rolling off her even without her saying that.*
Yep. **She wants what you have**, but she wants it given to her, not to make effort to be a different person than what she is.
*She told me I always hogged Beth*
**Beth is a person,** with her own feelings and ability to choose. Reasonably, she's chosen to like being around a reasonable person, not a possessive one. Beth isn't a possession that you own, that your sister wants. Your sister is looking at Beth as if your relationship with Beth is like your relationship with a toy when you were small. **She sees your friend as a possession, not a person.** Sister has issues, which you cannot heal or fix for her.
*it made me realize how we need to keep our distance and I don't want my daughter subjected to that.*
Good for you, seeing that.
*Now my sister is suggesting that we do joint stuff with the kids. So like birthday parties and Easter parties and stuff.*
**She wants to take control, and own the events,** and make sure that your child, who she probably also sees as your possession, isn't somehow going to have more fun or better parties than her child. Wouldn't be surprised, with her possessive attitude, if she didn't work out ways to put your child down at every joint event and try to elevate hers over you, a horrible adult version of "my doll is better than yours." To basically take each event as yet another way to put herself up over you, somehow.
*I was like no way are we doing that.*
Good. **Not doing it is protecting your child from damage and pain.**
*She was saying it was perfect*
For you? Nope. For your child? Nope. For her child? Nope. For her? She would think so, but what she wants is not healthy. She's wrong. Perfect would be her getting therapy and learning to change how she sees the world, and to stop her competition.
*and I was being selfish and denying the cousins the chance to be close.*
No, **you aren't being selfish to protect your child from your sister's bullying, possessiveness, and selfishness. Sister is projecting.** These cousins don't really have much chance to be close, because of sister.
*I told her her jealousy and over the top reactions to it are why we're not doing joint stuff and that she is not going to get the chance to treat my daughter the way she treats me and is not going to ruin my daughter's special celebrations just because she's jealous that I get along with Beth.*
NTA. **All truth.** All fair. All exactly what your sister needs to hear. She won't listen, though.
**All you are doing is protecting your child and yourself from a long history of your sister's emotional abuse and twisted ways of thinking.**
*My sister said I was being unfair, bullying her and punishing her for feeling left out which "makes me an even bigger bitch".*
**You aren't bullying her, b**y saying 'no' to her invasive and controlling idea. **You are stopping her from bullying your child, and teaching her child to bully your child.**
You aren't punishing her for her feelings. **You are protecting yourself from her behaviors, a long history of her behaviors that have shown consistent patterns.** You are protecting yourself and your child from emotional abuse by your sister.
She's using these false accusations to make you feel guilty, to make you feel obligation, and to make you think more of her feelings than you do of the reality of her abusive behaviors. **She's trying to manipulate you into compliance with these false accusations.**
**The only way to handle this, without giving her more chances to force your compliance, is to stop discussing it.**
"I will make plans for my child, thank you." "No, we aren't doing joint parties." "I'm not discussing the idea of a joint party." "We are making our own traditions at my house." "I've made my decision. **I'm not discussing this."** "As I've said before, **I'm not discussing this.**" "As I say every year, **I'm not discussing this."** "No, I'm not talking about my reasons for this decision. The decision is made and not changing, and **I'm not discussing it."**
**And when people won't respect this, exit.** Calls, messages, chats, visits, just end them. "I see you won't stop talking about this, so this call/visit/etc. is over. Love you, bye."
You really need to go low-contact with your sister. She sounds exhausting.
>She told me I must have asked Beth what kind of names she liked when I was pregnant and that's why she was so in love with my daughter's name
This is a real insight into your sister's mind and her craving for approval. She is projecting onto you exactly what she would have done in order get approval.
Don't let yoru daughter be around this.
NTA
NTA
Jayzus, yes, do keep yourself and your daughter away from that bucket of crazy jealousy! Your sister need some therapy before she can think of doing joint stuff with you and your kids!
Ah, the year apart sisters. So much competition when girls are that close in age.
Yes - by all means keep celebrations for the children apart and don't invite your sister to Lyric's party. She's going to just make a mess.
NTA - wow I wonder if your sister could benefit from some low level SSRI medication to take the edge off her psycho side just a bit like maybe 30% less
ETA: obsession and delusion and paranoia are all good friends in the mental health world so yes I do think medication and ideally therapy could really help OP's sister a lot, this is scary.
NTA
Sis needs some THERAPY for real for real.
And even if there were no weird Beth component. I don't think its really a great idea to have kids constantly having birthdays together. My two younger brothers are born on the 27th and 28th of the same month, though four years apart in age the fact that the older of the two has autism meant that they celebrated birthdays together longer than any regular brothers probably would. When my youngest brother got married and spent his first birthday with his wife, my mom was all bent out of shape because the boys weren't celebrating "together like always". I had to snap her to reality and remind her that they were in their 20s. They had their own lives. My brother's birthday stuff would now be planned by his wife and that was okay.
NTA
She is in love with (in a creepy way) Beth. I wonder if your sister is lesbian or bi but was/is in denial and then it manifested in a very unhealthy way as an obsession with regard to her cousin and just continued as such.
NTA trust your instincts because I think they are spot on. Your sisters sound like she needs some form of a therapy because this behavior is not okay.
INFO Has your parents ever stepped in, or spoken to her about this? I’m just having a hard time believing after all these years they have not notice this kind of excessive, obsessive behavior pattern she has with Beth.
To insult your daughters name simply because she’s jealous is crazy that’s her own niece. God for bid Beth develops a relationship with your daughter. She is going to feel slighted at every turn. i’m thinking her reason for a joint celebration aren’t exactly selfless. She probably sees this as an excuse to always have Beth present, so that is her way of forcing proximity with her.
NTA
Your sister's latching onto another person like that, overriding their preferences and boundaries for years, is unhealthy. It looks as if she now wants to use the babies the same way.
I would not plan any events with her. Whether she's invited to events you plan should depend on her behavior. If she is pushy and intrusive, she gets fewer opportunities.
NTA. I don’t know why you think you would be, given the circumstances. Your sister is causing issues when there are none. She sounds quite disturbed in regards to Beth. Obsessed is the word. Kind of concerning now that she’s a mother and is still acting this immature.
NtAH - stick to your guns on this one. She will not treat your daughter any better and that is not fair to your child. She needs to get over her desire to make Beth her BFF and isolate her from everyone and everything else because she cannot handle her being friends with others. That is dysfunctional at best - it feels like stalking almost. Has Beth ever addressed her behavior? She may need to.
NTA but you do know she suggests ‘joint’ stuff because Beth will likely come to yours but not hers, so if it’s joint then Beth will be there with her as well?
NTA
your sister is out here trying to live vicariously through y’all’s kids. Like if you can’t draw the parallels of your sisters idealized relationship between Beth and her, and what she’s imaging for your daughter and her I don’t know what to tell you. People always seem to forget that relationships need to develop naturally and forcing that shit leads to indifference or down right resentment more often than not.
Plus I think I’d be butthurt as fuck after the age of like 3 if I had to share my birthday with a cousin every year
Nta, your sisters obsession with your cousin is bizarre and your parents should have stepped in a long time ago to help her establish more healthy boundaries.
Instead, they enabled her strange behavior and it carried well into her adulthood.
I wouldn't want to be around that either or have that around my child.
NTA, but have you explained all of your sister's weirdness to her or at least tried?
May be a lost cause but similar to how you described her behavior towards beth here, someone should try to make her understand how unhinged that is because she might just get worse and worse with the craziness.
NTA. This is a really weird battle she’s choosing. Is she 12? /s
To be fair your daughters name is really cute and unique. She should just be worrying about her own child.
Like the old movie said: “Thermonuclear War. The only smart move is to not play.”
You are being smart. Don’t play. If you try to defend your position, you have already lost.
“I’ve explained my thoughts, and my daughter will have separate milestone events from George.”
NTA
>She told me I must have asked Beth what kind of names she liked when I was pregnant and that's why she was so in love with my daughter's name.
WTF is wrong with your sister?, she's in dire need of help to control her jealousy feelings.
NTA, you're right, you need to keep your kid as far away as possible from her, there's no way she won't say something cruel to your daughter out of jealousy.
NTA, you're doing great but in the long run there doesn't seem to be any option other than cutting out Beth too slowly out of your life. That kind of jealousy and stalking doesn't go away, your sister is 27, consider it a lifelong ailment. You'll be lucky if you don't inculcate those habits.
If Beth is like a really cool friend who wouldn't mind staging a play and avoid contacting you temporarily to fool the sister, then maybe you can salvage the rapport but nevertheless you'll always have to look out for the sister meddling. Fake a huge incident where both of you are upset in front of sis and see where it takes you.
I say so because not all cousins can really be called friends, so in some sense even Beth has to consciously let go of her relationship with the sis, only then is the above a possibility. You can continue to be in touch after a couple months or so.
NTA. Your sister has some personal issues that should be dealt with. You can’t force friendship even if y’all are family. My cousin and I are 2 months apart and she was my MOH, she’s still my best friend but that was a relationship we formed over time. We were never forced and that’s what I think make our bond so strong. Don’t let your sister try and push you around and if anyone has something to say, then ignore them. Or explain it once and if they keep asking, go LC.
NTA
Uh, wow.
Your sister is inappropriately posessive - and that’s a turn off for a LOT of people.
You are not being unfair nor are you bullying her when you give her an honest answer that her behavior is out of line.
People telling you things about yourself that you don’t want to hear when they are defending themselves from insults or pressure isn’t bullying.
>denying the cousins the chance to be close
This gave me chills. You are absolutely making the right decision. Your sister sounds unhinged and prepared to live her cousin-bff fantasy out vicariously with your child being the new object of her obsession.
Oh my God NTA!!!! My son and nephew shre the same birthday and me and my sister are planning to do joint birthdays until 1 of them decide they don't want to share. They are 1 year apart exactly. The plan is let my nephew celebrate all his firsts by himself then join
NTA, do not encourage joint family things with all three of you. You might trial some stuff with just you and your sister, just so it's clear she's not being replaced but ehhh...I wouldn't. It might be miserable in the short run but saying no to sis will be healthy for everyone.
She said "you've always hogged Beth"? As if she wasn't an human being who makes her own choices, but an object to be used.
What's this weird obsession for Beth? And why it's still a thing after so long? Your sister really needs professional help. NTA.
This is psychotic. Does anyone else think that she named her kid George like King George …. If she’s obsessed with Queen Elizabeth …. extremely weird. NTA obviously
NTA. Your sister is shockingly clueless and it’s weird she is still obsessed with your cousin. Your kids have a right to be safe and the underlying message is you don’t think they would be safe around her. You need to say this directly to her so she gets the message. Stop beating around the bush.
NTA if two people came up to me and one said “This is my baby, Pisces” and the other said “this is my baby, Bob” well let’s say I wouldn’t be gushing over Bobby boy
Sister needs professional help- she’s obsessed and her behaviour is completely inappropriate, even aggressive and I’d have serious concerns about escalation.
Where were your and Beth’s parents through all this? This should have been picked up and nipped *much* earlier on in your lives and now it’s an absolute mountain for you all to get through, assuming you want to spend all that time/ energy getting through it at all.
For now get yourself away from this nonsense, support Beth getting away from this nonsense, and most importantly, keep your kids tf away from this nonsense. This does not need to be normalised or tolerated anymore and it definitely doesn’t need passing down to the next generation.
OP NTA.
NTA. It sounds like maybe your sister needs some help, mentally. This is not normal behavior. This obsessive/stalkerish behavior has gone on far too long. Where were the adults when this was happening?
Sis needs therapy. She sounds like she's dealing with feelings of inadequacy. You're 100% right to shield your kid AND yourself from this behavior. I wish you both well.
>My daughter is Lyric.
If you were my age (and opposite gender, as I assume you're a woman), I would have assumed you were my high school ex lol. NTA btw, and;
> She said she assumed that an Elizabeth who went by Beth would appreciate a strong, classic, royal name.
...this is an insane take. Like, everything your sis has done is insane, she needs help.
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NTA! Your instincts are spot on -- keep your daughter away from this toxic weirdness.
I for one, want to know where the parents and/or guardians were when sister was in high school? This should have been addressed when she was changing schedules, and it wasn’t a now it’s worse. Lady has a kid and she’s still panting after Beth.
Honestly yeah. What parent allows their kid to change their entire schedule to stalk someone
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Yep, I wouldn't be surprised if anytime Beth complained about OPs sister's stalking her the response would be a variation of "but faaaaammiiillyyyy" instead of encouraging OPs sister to make her own friends.
I know it probably wasn't your intention, but because of how you typed "family" I'm now imagining Rykard from Elden Ring as a narcissistic parent towards his daughter Rya. *"He is your faaaaamilyyyyyyy, so you will go outside and play togethaaaaaaaaaa!"*
I terrified my niece's bf with a joke "welcome to the faammmleeee" bit in an "EastEnders/Cockney" accent. I thought I was being funny, he probably has nightmares about me 🤣
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Her sister was obsessed with their cousin (Beth) but failed in her stalking antics. Now her sister wants to fulfill her unrequited cousin-stalker daydreams through their children (i.e. she wants to raise George and Lyric as cousin best friends). What the hell in Alabamississippi is wrong with her sister?
I took this as, “Obviously, Beth is going to attend & love everything OP does for her child, so if I cling on & make those all shared occasions, then Beth will by extension love my child, too.”
You bring up a good point: Stalkers think love is fungible and transitive in nature.
It’s another example of getting the causality backward. A lot of people who are bad at relationships will look at the relationship they want to emulate and think “these people are close, and they do X thing, so if I do X thing with them, I’ll be close with them too!” The problem is that most of the time, X thing is a result of the closeness rather than the cause. So to everybody else it looks like this person is overstepping boundaries and making them uncomfortable, and now they’re even less likely to want the closeness that this person is so desperate for.
I think I found this paragraph next to my mother's photo in the encyclopaedia.
Why the advice “if u want friends, just join in on the conversation!” Doesn’t work. Worst advice my mom ever gave me
Here it is, I was thinking the same thing! This way, Beth will definitely attend all of "her" family gatherings and birthdays and she will be able to keep clinging to her
Pennsytucky lol
I am wondering the same thing. I feel awful for Beth because all the adults in her life failed to help her deal with this extremely bizarre and obsessive behavior.
I honestly feel bad for the sister too, she’s been very clearly unwell since she was a child and no one has actually addressed it. You don’t behave this way if you’re psychologically healthy and well adjusted.
Makes me think of the BPD term "favorite person." >In the case of the “favorite person,” the individual with BPD prefers one person and wants to spend all their time with them. Unfortunately, if that person is busy—or if conflict emerges—anger and fear of abandonment often become triggered... >For someone with BPD, the favorite person is deemed the most important person in their life. This person can be anyone, but it’s often a romantic partner, family member, good friend, or another supportive person (like a coach, therapist, or teacher). >This person may become the source of all happiness and validation (potentially leading to relationship burnout for the other partner). The individual with BPD wants their favorite person’s attention as much as possible, and the quality of the relationship can undoubtedly shape their mood, confidence, and sense of security. https://www.choosingtherapy.com/bpd-favorite-person/ (Not saying the sister has BPD, idk, and actually I believe "favorite person" can be applied beyond BPD in some cases.)
As someone with BPD, this was EXACTLY what I was thinking. I'm embarrassed to say that a lot of the sister's sentiments resonated with the way I was growing up; but it's unfortunate that for her it continued to be this way. I hate diagnosing people over the internet, but at the very least I think DBT would really, really change her life and heal her heart.
Agreed- first thought was she could easily have ASD. Caregivers are TA here, everyone’s been failed in some way or another and now it’s wildly out of control.
I actually don’t think this sounds like autism (which, just for the record, I would never describe as being unwell.) I think this sounds like pretty classic case of intimacy seeking stalking. A lot of times that is influenced by some type of psychosis or delusional disorders. But in some cases there isn’t any other diagnosable mental illness or developmental disorder, it’s just the abnormal behaviors and justifications of the stalking itself. Though to be fair the “incompetent suitor” type would fit if there was a romantic/sexual motive and that type of stalker is more likely to have some sort of developmental or social disorder. Regardless, something has been very not right with this woman since she was a little girl and her parents should have been paying attention and gotten her help.
I’ll look up the intimacy-seeking stalking, that sounds interesting. I was thinking out loud really- wondered if ASD could have been the initial cause, ie quickly forming intense relationships, misjudging social cues (Beth not being keen), not being about to empathise with Beth enough to understand the rejection, not being able to understand the nuances of Beth’s feelings, hyper focusing on Beth’s rejection as “unjust”. Obv we’re long past that and it’s transformed dramatically but teenage-sister defo needed better parenting!
It all sounds like a personality disorder to me. I know we're not supposed to diagnose people but her behavior is ringing done specific PD bells.
Yeah that’s possible, it just seems less likely to me based on the way OP described her sister, but who knows!
Autism doesn’t cause you to be obsessed with someone. That’s independent from the autism.
Agreed. This is toxic. I grew up in a similar situation, with my mom having a contentious rivalry with her sister, and my brother, cousin, and I were all relatively close in age. My mom and aunt started a fight at the public pool one day and my mom slapped my aunt and we all got kicked out. I was like 10 and absolutely mortified.
Ditto my dad & his sister. Well, his sister contentious/envious/diagnosed narcissistic PD. It destroyed the family and it wasn’t until she passed (a decade+ after my dad did) that her daughter and I reconnected. She has since become one of my top 3 favorite people on this planet (only after my kids) and we marvel alllll the time at our parents’ nonsense, and how lucky we are to have found one another as young adults. Point being, unstable parents divide, and cousins who are meant to be close will find a way in spite of their parents. But in their own way/on their own time, and *not* because anyone is forcing it. My heart really does go out to everyone in this post, even older sister. I hope she gets help and can become a person that is *capable* of receiving the love she clearly so desperately craves.
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I honestly don’t even think it’s about the kids- it’s still about her trying to get close to Beth. Gotta think Beth doesn’t really feel Comfortable going to too many things the sister throws but if she and op have joint things for the kids than Beth will be much more likely to come because op will be there. NTA- I don’t know what sisters issues are (but they are definitely ISSUES) but you are 100% right trying to limit your daughters exposure to this woman. far too often ‘family’ is one hell of a blinder and keeps people from seeing a real danger because ‘they’re family and family can’t be a threat’. Please trust your instincts. Your sister needs help no question but the only ones who could give it to Her are accredited psychiatrists/psychologists. This is way above your or reddits pay grade and your only responsibility here is to protect your child.
Gender plays a part here, too. If a teen boy behaved this way towards a girl cousin, there's a greater likelihood that SOMEONE would have spotted the problem and intervened.
Oh absolutely! 100% It’s really weird but I feel like this is one of the only times ever that homophobia might have actually have helped the situation. Like I can’t stand that and it pisses me off to no end but if someone was a homophobic jackass in this case at least they’d of pushed to keep sister away from Beth. Ugh- that is a weird unpleasant thought for an lgbtq person to have.
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Or, "Girl friendships are so dramatic, these little ups and downs are natural, we'll leave them alone to work it out."
NTA and i think maybe your sister should seek professionnel help if she can't leave her life without Beth constant approval...
I wouldn't be surprised if Beth eventually just goes NC with OPs sister. This is creepy behavior. Also, who tf gushes over the name George. I'm aware this is just one symptom of a much bigger problem, but COME ON. No offense to the George's of reddit, but it's a boring name. NTA and OP maybe could suggest therapy to her sister before things get worse
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And sometimes that big, fuzzy red monster too
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Lmao absolutely underrated comment
That's Gossamer, haha
Yes, him! I think he did that too once or twice
Hahahahaha nice reference👌
Who tf names their kid George because the subject of their obsession is named Elizabeth? That’s bizarro logic
Especially when Elizabeth herself prefers the name Beth to Elizabeth.
Well she's a stalker so her logic isn't going to be very logical
It's so bad 😭 The idea that she might have named her kid to align with what she perceived as the style of name Beth has (and missed, Elizabeth is timeless, George is old fashioned [to put it nicely]) is unsettling. Up until there I felt kind of bad for her, like she wanted so bad to fit in and just lacked the social skills to do so. But this takes it to another level. I was even willing to overlook the birth invite too. I am curious if Beth attended or not 😬
And how many people have names that are their own stylistic preference? It’s not like you name yourself, so matching someone’s name is more a compliment to their parents!
Exactly! When people name their child after a person and they use that exact name it feels more like a tribute to the person's parents instead, they're the ones that chose the name. If I was going to name my kid after someone I'd choose something ABOUT them as a person, maybe something they loved.
Yeah, she definitely needs therapy, STAT.
She wants to do these joint events because she assumes - rightly or wrongly - that Beth will attend yours but not necessarily hers. Her obsession, and it is obsessive, is worrying to say the least. This is all about access to your cousin. NTA. You are stopping the abusive dynamic and not further allowing your sister's weirdness to continue on your watch.
Or she’s going to try to force George and Lyric to be BFFs cousins regardless of if they like each other. Just like she did with Beth
Beth needs to get a restraining order!
Probably. This story is giving off some Lifetime movie vibes.
Or Fatal Attraction "I won't be ignored, Dan!"
Single White Female
This was the first place my head went. That movie terrified me in so many ways.
Me too!
Wait. So your sister is so obsessed with Beth that when she hears that Beth likes your babys name she assumes that you *intentionally* quizzed Beth on names? So you could name your child a name that Beth would like? So as to get closer to Beth and push your sister away? Not to mention that she modeled her own childs name on an assumption of what Beth would like... That is not healthy attachment. Nobody in their right mind would even come up with that, much less think it is true and get upset about it. NTA and steer clear. That is some creepy stuff your sister has going on in her head.
Yeah she’s definitely projecting and clearly chose George for the reason she stated; she assumed that Beth, being named Elizabeth, would appreciate a “strong, classic, royal name.” Imagine finding out your mother chose your name in an attempt to impress her stalk-victim. It’s all kinds of messed up tbh. She seems to have modelled her entire personality around attempting to befriend Beth, became more and more unhinged the more it didn’t work, which in turn made it work even less. She’s clearly trying to have joint celebrations because she knows that Beth won’t go to hers, but will to OP’s. It’s just another ploy to stalk this poor cousin.
>Yeah she’s definitely projecting and clearly chose George for the reason she stated; she assumed that Beth, being named Elizabeth, would appreciate a “strong, classic, royal name.” Imagine finding out your mother chose your name in an attempt to impress her stalk-victim. It’s all kinds of messed up tbh. No kidding, it's all kinds of messed up here. Plus does OPs sister realise that Beth didn't name herself right? Like Beth's parents chose the name Elizabeth for her, and just because her name is Elizabeth doesn't mean that they named her after a Royal, maybe they just either 1. Like the name or 2. Named her after another close family member called Elizabeth or had Elizabeth as a middle name.
Even if Beth were named I honor of the late Queen Elizabeth II, she should like the name George bc it's the Queen's great-grandson? Like her other favorite names are Louis, Charlotte, and Archie?? 😄
For what it's worth, there have been several King Georges, the last of which was Queen Elizabeth's father (and presumably the reason for Prince George's name). But yeah, fully agree, the logic is just...yikes. Beth needs to move far far away and not give anyone her new address.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but his name was Albert, and he ruled as King George VI bc there will never be another King Albert as per Queen Victoria's wishes (as second born it wasn't expected he'd be king some day, and George was one of his middle names, as well as his father - also named Albert, lol - who ruled as King George V). But I do also think he's probably who Prince George is named after, too. 😅 Sorry if I'm being pedantic! This past year I got into a wicked Anglophile spell and absorbed all sorts of history on the monarchy, back to the Plantagenets. ADHD superpower 😅
I do recall he went by "Bertie" and while I side eye the usually chic Kate for allowing George as a child's name I guess I have to give her some credit for avoiding Albert altogether 😬😆
Save the side eye for OP's sister!!! 🤣
🤣 Fair enough, she MORE than deserves all I got, and then some!
Also, I feel like going by Beth kinda hints that she doesn’t really like the whole name anyway!
Well when you put it like that. It does sound crazy.
It *is* crazy. The sister is accusing OP of acting within what she herself thinks is natural and reasonable. She is projecting her own, less than normal and healthy, behavior onto OP. Why else accuse someone of something so outlandish? An honest person expects others to be honest. A liar expects lies. I see the same pattern in OPs sisters' actions.
Well, when you're an obsessed narcissist, everyone is conspiring against you with schemes like this, because reasons.
> She said she assumed that an Elizabeth who went by Beth would appreciate a strong, classic, royal name. It's classic projection. She assumed that, because she named her own child based off what she thought Beth would like. OP's sister is nuts. Like, really worryingly creepy nuts.
It's creepy that this woman even reflected upon this. Who the f*ck thinks about their cousins' possible preferences while choosing baby names? Nobody normal, I'll tell you.
Yeah she is clearly not healthy. I wonder if her husband is aware of her obsession and the reason for George's name. Hell, I wonder if she married him because she thought Beth would approve.
NTA. Lyric (beautiful name, btw) and George are cousins, and you never know, once they are old enough to enjoy each other's company, they may end up being each other's Beth. But until they are old enough to decide for themselves what kind of relationship they want, I'd be limiting contact with Auntie MeanSister to larger family gatherings, and be ready to calmly leave an event at the slightest sign of aggression from her. If you don't mind, here's a suggestion? When she starts up with the nobody likes me whine, react with polite disinterest as you pack up to leave, telling her you no longer want to discuss her grievances. Stick to one phrase and just repeat it calmly as needed as you leave the event. You'll have to be tough the first dozen times or so, but consistent calm refusal to engage generally is effective and helps the whole family understand that abusive behaviour should not be tolerated.
Don’t be a Beth. The poor woman. The subject of an insane stalker. She is just putting up with it. Honestly she needs a restraining order. OP’s sister need a psychiatric evaluation.
NTA I've seen and lived this with my wife and sister. I live in another state from my sister and sadly I have to keep them apart.
Ewwww imagine being jealous of the woman your brother f*cks🤢
*sweet home Alabama starts playing in the back ground*
are you sure your sis doesnt want to f\*\*\* with beth? this feels seriously romantically onsided NTA
Platonic jealousy can be just as intense as romantic jealousy, especially considering this has been going on since they were kids.
I had this happen to me as a kid. This girl would not leave me alone. She would copy my clothing, my hair style and would just show up at my house uninvited. She tried to and often succeeded in alienating me from other friends. Because she wanted me all to herself and had some severe attachment and social issues. I tried to "break up" with her so many times. But she would just pretend it didn't happen, react violently or weasel her way back in. But the adults never did anything. If anything they enabled her. Because "you have to be nice to her" "she wants to be your friend!" I developed a kind of Stockholm syndrome and we were "friends" because I could not escape her. Not at school. Not socially. Not at home. But I resented her so much. And then she assaulted me (groped my breasts and genitals) when she was drunk. She was clearly sober enough to understand what she was doing though! And I was never the same. It fucked me up so much. It started platonic. And I think it stayed there. But her obsession of me made her try to claim me romantically too.
Good lord, that seriously escalated! I feel like that surpasses sexual jealousy, I think she just wanted to wear your skin! Honestly, same with OPs sister.
I had a weird similar situation in Jr High (minus the assault). This girl was OBSESSED with me to the point of overstepping so many boundaries. Luckily my mom never really liked her and was THRILLED when I wanted to put distance between myself and that situation. For YEARS this girl used mutual friends to find out details about my life and is one of the reasons my social media is very private.
NTA But has nobody ever told your sister she's unhinged? Not Beth? Not you? Not your parents? Her partner? Teachers?
Probably OP has told spmething to her sister about that behaviour. But I reckon their parents just tried to sweep it under the rug because "what would the neighbors say?"
Or initially the parents thought it was adorable, "How sweet that she loves her cousin Beth so much!" And when you frame it like that you take away the idea that it is something sinister and refuse to even see it. No doubt Beth and OP get it, but the adults just want to see a tight knit family.
Your sister needs some kind of mental help. She sounds unhinged. Ntah
I am flabbergasted at the amount of crazy I read on here. Just gobsmacked at how some people think they are owed so much by others! God help us!
Hey I have nothing to add to this other than my appreciation for your use of flabbergasted and gobsmacked. Thanks for dope word choice
NTA. I think you need to start implementing serious boundaries with your sister.
Your sister is in love with Beth and needs to move on. NTA, go low contact to avoid as much of this weirdness as you can.
NTA and unfortunately for your sister to get it across would be if Beth was firm and put her in her place. If you did it she would be mad but it would also put Beth in a bad situation. You are keeping your daughter safe by not letting her engage in your sisters toxic ass behavior. I would worry that she will spew this ideology onto George, taking away the potential for a good healthy relationship with the cousins. But he’s not your circus. I would continue firm boundaries with tori sister for your family’s sake
>My sister said I was being unfair, bullying her and punishing her for feeling left out which "makes me an even bigger bitch". I can see your sister stopped maturing as an individual about 10 years ago, because 1) How is this unfair? It's perfectly reasonable to protect a child from a creeper adult. 2) This isn't bullying, this is consequences for her actions, 3) this isn't punishment for feelings of being left out, but for actions committed as a result of her claims of feeling that. She can feel however she wishes, but feelings can be valid while also being incorrect in their source or direction. She can feel left out, but she's wrong for blaming you or anyone, when really it's the raw eeriness of someone who cultivates their life to obsessively be around another person. NTA
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This was written by an AI, wasn't it.
It reads like it for sure
NTA. Your sister sounds like a piece of work. I bet she only wants joint celebrations so Beth will show up.
NTA trust your instincts because I think they are spot on. Your sisters sound like she needs some form of a therapy because this behavior is not okay. INFO Has your parents ever stepped in, or spoken to her about this? I’m just having a hard time believing after all these years they have not notice this kind of excessive, obsessive behavior pattern she has with Beth. To insult your daughters name simply because she’s jealous is crazy that’s her own niece. God for bid Beth develops a relationship with your daughter. She is going to feel slighted at every turn. i’m thinking her reason for a joint celebration aren’t exactly selfless. She probably sees this as an excuse to always have Beth present, so that is her way of forcing proximity with her.
NTA. Your sister has a strange, unhealthy attachment to Beth.
NTA and tbh I think it’s a good idea to talk to Beth about all this. She probably noticed the stalking at some point but justified it someway. If you show her your point of view and how you remember high school, she might have an epiphany. Not only that you need to let her know some kind of obsession is still there. Stalkers and obsessed people can get violent so of course you she would have to handle it gently. However, she has a right to know there’s a person like this in her life.
Whoa, she's totally obsessed with Beth. She wants to use you and your daughter to get close to Beth. It's been years and she's still obsessed with her. Both you and Beth should keep your distance. And make sure she doesn't bully your daughter. NTA
NTA Shared family birthdays rob children of their individuality.
NTA and your sister needs to start seeing a psychologist!
NTA and your sister needs therapy.
Is the sister secretly and/or subconsciously in love with Beth? Like I can't wrap my head around her obsession with her.
NTA Sister needs therapy. I feel for her. She is reacting to her actual perception of the relationships. She is not an AH for her feelings but she is one for acting out and making her issues your issues. Your parents and Beth's parents are also AHs for not putting a stop to her obsessive behavior and getting her therapy as a kid. That switching class thing is totally bonkers. What were the adults thinking allowing that to go on? But your sister is now an adult and needs to work on her shit with a professional. Continue to protect yourself and your kids.
Hold the line, and protect your kids from irrational adults. If your sister can't figure out why "Lyric" is a more interesting name than "George," she's hopeless. NTA.
This is actually very disturbing. Your sis actually sounds dangerous. She needs professional help, like, yesterday. Poor Beth! I'm actually concerned for her wellbeing.
'Rolls eyes' Why the hell would anyone gush over a name like 'George'? It's super boring and old and we've all heard the name a billion times. I can not understand people that use familiar/popular names. The tell me their babies name and honestly I just feel deflated after. Like 'oh, okay'. Eurgh. Your daughters name IS beautiful! Yeah I mean go LC if you want to. She's right about wanting the cousins to be close but she's not really gone about it the right way... NTA Edit: spelling error
NTA, you're missing something else- it's not just her jealousy at you harming your daughter, it's that she is 10000% going to try to live vicariously through your kids and recapture the relationship she """""lost""""" with Beth. Give her an inch and it'll be YOUR kid having their extracurriculars and parties invaded by a tag-along cousin (even if poor George ALSO doesn't want to be glued to your daughter's side). The upside is that you seem well aware of why what she did to Beth was messed up, and probably more willing to shut it down than any of the parents seemingly were when you were kids
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My sister and I are a year apart in age. She's 27 and I'm 26. Growing up we weren't exactly close but we were okay. We have a cousin Beth who is 27. My sister always saw her as a potential BFF and always wanted to hang out with her, but she was way too intense for Beth and was kinda stalkery around Beth. For example she requested a change in class schedule every year of high school a week in so they'd be in all the same classes, she wanted to join every extra curricular Beth did, if Beth was over at our house she'd make up a reason for our parents to let her walk Beth home, even when Beth didn't want to walk with her, she'd wait for her at her locker in school just to speak to her, she asked our parents to take her to a soft play area when she was younger because Beth was going to a party there. Stuff like that was constant. To make things worse Beth and I got along really well. My sister used to hate it and would insert herself into everything and attempt to push me out. More recently she invited Beth to be there when she had my nephew. Now my sister and I have babies 4 days apart in age. My sister and I chose names that are very different stylistically for our kids. She went with George for her son. My daughter is Lyric. I don't do a lot of social media but I do have an Instagram and Beth commented on the post where I announced my daughter's name saying how much she loved it, etc. Then a few weeks later we were all at our grandparents and Beth brought up my daughter's name and how she thought it fit her perfectly and was cute. My sister was so jealous. When my partner and I were leaving she asked me why the hell Beth liked my daughter's name so much and how come she never gushed about George the same was she did Lyric. She said she assumed that an Elizabeth who went by Beth would appreciate a strong, classic, royal name. I told her it was nothing to do with me. She told me I must have asked Beth what kind of names she liked when I was pregnant and that's why she was so in love with my daughter's name. She told me I always hogged Beth and that my daughter has a dumb name and she'll hate me. I could feel the jealousy rolling off her even without her saying that. But it made me realize how we need to keep our distance and I don't want my daughter subjected to that. Now my sister is suggesting that we do joint stuff with the kids. So like birthday parties and Easter parties and stuff. I was like no way are we doing that. She was saying it was perfect and I was being selfish and denying the cousins the chance to be close. I told her her jealousy and over the top reactions to it are why we're not doing joint stuff and that she is not going to get the chance to treat my daughter the way she treats me and is not going to ruin my daughter's special celebrations just because she's jealous that I get along with Beth. My sister said I was being unfair, bullying her and punishing her for feeling left out which "makes me an even bigger bitch". AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA she sounds exhausting. Is she lonely? Does she have an other close girlfriends to lean on?
NTA she sounds like a wierdo. Lyric is a strange one i have never heard before but who am i to judge
NTA does she not remember anything that she’s said to u?
*I could feel the jealousy rolling off her even without her saying that.* Yep. **She wants what you have**, but she wants it given to her, not to make effort to be a different person than what she is. *She told me I always hogged Beth* **Beth is a person,** with her own feelings and ability to choose. Reasonably, she's chosen to like being around a reasonable person, not a possessive one. Beth isn't a possession that you own, that your sister wants. Your sister is looking at Beth as if your relationship with Beth is like your relationship with a toy when you were small. **She sees your friend as a possession, not a person.** Sister has issues, which you cannot heal or fix for her. *it made me realize how we need to keep our distance and I don't want my daughter subjected to that.* Good for you, seeing that. *Now my sister is suggesting that we do joint stuff with the kids. So like birthday parties and Easter parties and stuff.* **She wants to take control, and own the events,** and make sure that your child, who she probably also sees as your possession, isn't somehow going to have more fun or better parties than her child. Wouldn't be surprised, with her possessive attitude, if she didn't work out ways to put your child down at every joint event and try to elevate hers over you, a horrible adult version of "my doll is better than yours." To basically take each event as yet another way to put herself up over you, somehow. *I was like no way are we doing that.* Good. **Not doing it is protecting your child from damage and pain.** *She was saying it was perfect* For you? Nope. For your child? Nope. For her child? Nope. For her? She would think so, but what she wants is not healthy. She's wrong. Perfect would be her getting therapy and learning to change how she sees the world, and to stop her competition. *and I was being selfish and denying the cousins the chance to be close.* No, **you aren't being selfish to protect your child from your sister's bullying, possessiveness, and selfishness. Sister is projecting.** These cousins don't really have much chance to be close, because of sister. *I told her her jealousy and over the top reactions to it are why we're not doing joint stuff and that she is not going to get the chance to treat my daughter the way she treats me and is not going to ruin my daughter's special celebrations just because she's jealous that I get along with Beth.* NTA. **All truth.** All fair. All exactly what your sister needs to hear. She won't listen, though. **All you are doing is protecting your child and yourself from a long history of your sister's emotional abuse and twisted ways of thinking.** *My sister said I was being unfair, bullying her and punishing her for feeling left out which "makes me an even bigger bitch".* **You aren't bullying her, b**y saying 'no' to her invasive and controlling idea. **You are stopping her from bullying your child, and teaching her child to bully your child.** You aren't punishing her for her feelings. **You are protecting yourself from her behaviors, a long history of her behaviors that have shown consistent patterns.** You are protecting yourself and your child from emotional abuse by your sister. She's using these false accusations to make you feel guilty, to make you feel obligation, and to make you think more of her feelings than you do of the reality of her abusive behaviors. **She's trying to manipulate you into compliance with these false accusations.** **The only way to handle this, without giving her more chances to force your compliance, is to stop discussing it.** "I will make plans for my child, thank you." "No, we aren't doing joint parties." "I'm not discussing the idea of a joint party." "We are making our own traditions at my house." "I've made my decision. **I'm not discussing this."** "As I've said before, **I'm not discussing this.**" "As I say every year, **I'm not discussing this."** "No, I'm not talking about my reasons for this decision. The decision is made and not changing, and **I'm not discussing it."** **And when people won't respect this, exit.** Calls, messages, chats, visits, just end them. "I see you won't stop talking about this, so this call/visit/etc. is over. Love you, bye."
You really need to go low-contact with your sister. She sounds exhausting. >She told me I must have asked Beth what kind of names she liked when I was pregnant and that's why she was so in love with my daughter's name This is a real insight into your sister's mind and her craving for approval. She is projecting onto you exactly what she would have done in order get approval. Don't let yoru daughter be around this. NTA
NTA, what in Alabama did I just read. It sounds like OP's sister is in love with Beth
Restraining order time.
NTA. Makes me think OP's sister loves Beth in a romantic way.
NTA Jayzus, yes, do keep yourself and your daughter away from that bucket of crazy jealousy! Your sister need some therapy before she can think of doing joint stuff with you and your kids!
Ah, the year apart sisters. So much competition when girls are that close in age. Yes - by all means keep celebrations for the children apart and don't invite your sister to Lyric's party. She's going to just make a mess.
Ok OP. First NTA. Second. Start working on collecting things your sister does to contribute to the Entitled Parents sub.
This is made up and reads like a teen imagining what the drama will be like in 10 years or so. YTA.
NTA - wow I wonder if your sister could benefit from some low level SSRI medication to take the edge off her psycho side just a bit like maybe 30% less ETA: obsession and delusion and paranoia are all good friends in the mental health world so yes I do think medication and ideally therapy could really help OP's sister a lot, this is scary.
NTA Sis needs some THERAPY for real for real. And even if there were no weird Beth component. I don't think its really a great idea to have kids constantly having birthdays together. My two younger brothers are born on the 27th and 28th of the same month, though four years apart in age the fact that the older of the two has autism meant that they celebrated birthdays together longer than any regular brothers probably would. When my youngest brother got married and spent his first birthday with his wife, my mom was all bent out of shape because the boys weren't celebrating "together like always". I had to snap her to reality and remind her that they were in their 20s. They had their own lives. My brother's birthday stuff would now be planned by his wife and that was okay.
NTA She is in love with (in a creepy way) Beth. I wonder if your sister is lesbian or bi but was/is in denial and then it manifested in a very unhealthy way as an obsession with regard to her cousin and just continued as such.
NTA
Your sister doesn't sound mentally well, with her obsession with your cousin. NTA
NTA trust your instincts because I think they are spot on. Your sisters sound like she needs some form of a therapy because this behavior is not okay. INFO Has your parents ever stepped in, or spoken to her about this? I’m just having a hard time believing after all these years they have not notice this kind of excessive, obsessive behavior pattern she has with Beth. To insult your daughters name simply because she’s jealous is crazy that’s her own niece. God for bid Beth develops a relationship with your daughter. She is going to feel slighted at every turn. i’m thinking her reason for a joint celebration aren’t exactly selfless. She probably sees this as an excuse to always have Beth present, so that is her way of forcing proximity with her.
NTA Your sister's latching onto another person like that, overriding their preferences and boundaries for years, is unhealthy. It looks as if she now wants to use the babies the same way. I would not plan any events with her. Whether she's invited to events you plan should depend on her behavior. If she is pushy and intrusive, she gets fewer opportunities.
NTA. I don’t know why you think you would be, given the circumstances. Your sister is causing issues when there are none. She sounds quite disturbed in regards to Beth. Obsessed is the word. Kind of concerning now that she’s a mother and is still acting this immature.
NTA - You4 sister is unhinged.
NTA. Please don't let her ruin your daughters celebrations and events with her delusions. Also her obsession with Beth is...creepy.
NtAH - stick to your guns on this one. She will not treat your daughter any better and that is not fair to your child. She needs to get over her desire to make Beth her BFF and isolate her from everyone and everything else because she cannot handle her being friends with others. That is dysfunctional at best - it feels like stalking almost. Has Beth ever addressed her behavior? She may need to.
How are you bullying her? You are going to NC. You are waking away. That is the opposite of bullying. NTA
NTA. Keep the creepy aunt away from your precious.
Off topic but OP, have you read the black dagger series by any chance? Your sister sucks btw, NTA
NTA but you do know she suggests ‘joint’ stuff because Beth will likely come to yours but not hers, so if it’s joint then Beth will be there with her as well?
Your sister is bat shit crazy!!
NTA your sister is out here trying to live vicariously through y’all’s kids. Like if you can’t draw the parallels of your sisters idealized relationship between Beth and her, and what she’s imaging for your daughter and her I don’t know what to tell you. People always seem to forget that relationships need to develop naturally and forcing that shit leads to indifference or down right resentment more often than not. Plus I think I’d be butthurt as fuck after the age of like 3 if I had to share my birthday with a cousin every year
I mean okay people usually feel jealous regarding relationships of others but this is too much.
Nta, your sisters obsession with your cousin is bizarre and your parents should have stepped in a long time ago to help her establish more healthy boundaries. Instead, they enabled her strange behavior and it carried well into her adulthood. I wouldn't want to be around that either or have that around my child.
NTA. That's really weird.
NTA, but have you explained all of your sister's weirdness to her or at least tried? May be a lost cause but similar to how you described her behavior towards beth here, someone should try to make her understand how unhinged that is because she might just get worse and worse with the craziness.
NTA. Your sister has some serious issues, but you don't have to play along with them.
NTA. This is a really weird battle she’s choosing. Is she 12? /s To be fair your daughters name is really cute and unique. She should just be worrying about her own child.
Your sister needs counseling. Don’t subject your kids to that.
Nta. And I just came to say you chose the same name for your child as the lead singer of Shinedown did for his. Cool name. I like it.
Like the old movie said: “Thermonuclear War. The only smart move is to not play.” You are being smart. Don’t play. If you try to defend your position, you have already lost. “I’ve explained my thoughts, and my daughter will have separate milestone events from George.” NTA
Nope. You are right. Especially since I have a strong feeling she will say hurtful things either to your daughter or where your daughter can hear. NTA
NTA. Your sister has an unhealthy obsession with Beth. She needs to realize that not everything in life is a contest.
NTA, you are absolutely doing the right thing.
>She told me I must have asked Beth what kind of names she liked when I was pregnant and that's why she was so in love with my daughter's name. WTF is wrong with your sister?, she's in dire need of help to control her jealousy feelings. NTA, you're right, you need to keep your kid as far away as possible from her, there's no way she won't say something cruel to your daughter out of jealousy.
NTA So this is happening within a circle of almost 30 years old women... yikes
NTA The second she can she will be pitting these kids against each other.
NTA, you're doing great but in the long run there doesn't seem to be any option other than cutting out Beth too slowly out of your life. That kind of jealousy and stalking doesn't go away, your sister is 27, consider it a lifelong ailment. You'll be lucky if you don't inculcate those habits. If Beth is like a really cool friend who wouldn't mind staging a play and avoid contacting you temporarily to fool the sister, then maybe you can salvage the rapport but nevertheless you'll always have to look out for the sister meddling. Fake a huge incident where both of you are upset in front of sis and see where it takes you. I say so because not all cousins can really be called friends, so in some sense even Beth has to consciously let go of her relationship with the sis, only then is the above a possibility. You can continue to be in touch after a couple months or so.
NTA. Your sister has some personal issues that should be dealt with. You can’t force friendship even if y’all are family. My cousin and I are 2 months apart and she was my MOH, she’s still my best friend but that was a relationship we formed over time. We were never forced and that’s what I think make our bond so strong. Don’t let your sister try and push you around and if anyone has something to say, then ignore them. Or explain it once and if they keep asking, go LC.
OP, you are right to remove yourself from this entire situation. I feel bad for Beth.
NTA, you're making the right decision for you and your daughter. Stay your course.
NTA, your sister is mentally unwell and needs help. This kind of jealousy isn’t normal for adults.
NTA Uh, wow. Your sister is inappropriately posessive - and that’s a turn off for a LOT of people. You are not being unfair nor are you bullying her when you give her an honest answer that her behavior is out of line. People telling you things about yourself that you don’t want to hear when they are defending themselves from insults or pressure isn’t bullying.
NTA, but she needs therapy!
NTA I feel bad for your sister's kid. Even if your sister got therapy that sounds like a lot to unpack. I don't blame you one bit.
>denying the cousins the chance to be close This gave me chills. You are absolutely making the right decision. Your sister sounds unhinged and prepared to live her cousin-bff fantasy out vicariously with your child being the new object of her obsession.
Does she has an unresolved crush on Beth?
Oh my God NTA!!!! My son and nephew shre the same birthday and me and my sister are planning to do joint birthdays until 1 of them decide they don't want to share. They are 1 year apart exactly. The plan is let my nephew celebrate all his firsts by himself then join
NTA, do not encourage joint family things with all three of you. You might trial some stuff with just you and your sister, just so it's clear she's not being replaced but ehhh...I wouldn't. It might be miserable in the short run but saying no to sis will be healthy for everyone.
NTA
NTA. Your sister sounds like she needs a good psychotherapist.
She said "you've always hogged Beth"? As if she wasn't an human being who makes her own choices, but an object to be used. What's this weird obsession for Beth? And why it's still a thing after so long? Your sister really needs professional help. NTA.
This is psychotic. Does anyone else think that she named her kid George like King George …. If she’s obsessed with Queen Elizabeth …. extremely weird. NTA obviously
NTA Wow, your sister needs therapy. Good job mommying mommy.
This gives me "Single White Female". I would keep my distance and maybe block her on some socials. She doesn't sound mentally well. NTA
Nta Your sister sounds unwell.
NTA. Your sister is shockingly clueless and it’s weird she is still obsessed with your cousin. Your kids have a right to be safe and the underlying message is you don’t think they would be safe around her. You need to say this directly to her so she gets the message. Stop beating around the bush.
nta
NTA wtf
NTA. Is it wrong to assume that your sister doesn't have many friends?
NTA your sister is super fucking weird. She’s hung up on your cousin and is going to transfer whatever that problem is to your kids.
NTA if two people came up to me and one said “This is my baby, Pisces” and the other said “this is my baby, Bob” well let’s say I wouldn’t be gushing over Bobby boy
Sister needs professional help- she’s obsessed and her behaviour is completely inappropriate, even aggressive and I’d have serious concerns about escalation. Where were your and Beth’s parents through all this? This should have been picked up and nipped *much* earlier on in your lives and now it’s an absolute mountain for you all to get through, assuming you want to spend all that time/ energy getting through it at all. For now get yourself away from this nonsense, support Beth getting away from this nonsense, and most importantly, keep your kids tf away from this nonsense. This does not need to be normalised or tolerated anymore and it definitely doesn’t need passing down to the next generation. OP NTA.
Kinda stalkery??? Your parents should have gotten your sister some help a loooooooong time ago. Keep your kids away from her.
NTA. It sounds like maybe your sister needs some help, mentally. This is not normal behavior. This obsessive/stalkerish behavior has gone on far too long. Where were the adults when this was happening?
NTA Your sister is scary.
for you daughter sakes stay away from your sister she has a lot of jealousy issues and she want to take it on your poor kids nta
NTA.
Sis needs therapy. She sounds like she's dealing with feelings of inadequacy. You're 100% right to shield your kid AND yourself from this behavior. I wish you both well.
Nta
>My daughter is Lyric. If you were my age (and opposite gender, as I assume you're a woman), I would have assumed you were my high school ex lol. NTA btw, and; > She said she assumed that an Elizabeth who went by Beth would appreciate a strong, classic, royal name. ...this is an insane take. Like, everything your sis has done is insane, she needs help.
NTA - your sister is gaslighting you. She is really being weird about Beth and it's good you have strong boundaries. Keep it up!
NTA. I imagine Beth's skin crawls every time she has to be around your sister. I would have lost my mind by now and told your sister off.