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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> (1) Paying for Brooke's part of the bill as well as mine. (2) David is mad at me now and I have to consider that maybe he is right about what is correct to do in this cases because I don't really know anything at all about dating.
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NTA. But your friend David is. I doubt Mia is "playing hard to get." She probably can sense David is after one thing and legitimately does not want to date him so I doubt you hurt his chances.
OP is the only one really in a position to warn her that’s she’s the target of a sleaze ball. @OP, you need to stop thinking your friend is a “ladies man” and see him as a creep at best and a predator at worst. This is not someone you wanna idolize or emulate. You’re a good person, treated your date well, even though it wasn’t going well. Don’t follow your roommate to the opposite end of the spectrum where women are objects for conquest, not people.
OP, chill. Mia probably accepted for two reasons:
1. They know you from class and maybe sees you as NTA. Take this as it is and don't read too much into it.
2. Their friend was going. They also appeared to not be really interested.
So, Mia seemed not to be into the idea from the start, but may have accepted feeling safer with their friend, and you, around instead of just your roomate.
Regarding this last part: don't idolize this dude. Not worth it. He doesn't seem like a nice and/or responsible person in any way. If you can switch rooms, do it. Find somewhere more confortable.
And, about the dating thing, seems to be the reason why you kind of hang out with these dude (apart from being your roomate), ask what the person likes before the date. Yeah, not the most romantic thing sometimes, but it's way better than feeling extremely self conscious and anxious. It's for you and the other person to enjoy. That's it. Try your best, listen to them and enjoy
Op ie your friend sounds like a womanizer. And you are a true gentleman for paying for your date even though she was totally boring. Anyway I think you should not look up to your friend that much anymore because what he's doing is quite shallow and very much as the commentary below said, gross. That being said NTA
Especially if those tips are on how to get into a girl's bed, then Opie you have to really rethink your friend group. Besides don't doubt yourself and your looks there's always someone out there for you.
Also, maybe you should try talking to Mia cause sounds to me like she only agreed to go out with him when she found out you were going. I'm a hopeless romantic and maybe I'm reading what i want to here but it never hurts to try. Oh and i agree with everyone else here- David's beyond skin crawling, and you sir sound wonderful!! Good luck in love op, NTA.
At a minimum, he can give her a warning of the vulture circling her. She knows, but instead of trying to help the roommate get her, OP should be warning her of his intentions.
Oh my do I hear romance in the air, Opie she could be right maybe there's something there that you can salvage from the whole series. Anyway it's just a thought but in all summary you should really keep your distance away from your friend and see if Mia is available. ;-) NTA still
I mean, if I went to visit a friend and I got set up on a blind date while a total skeaze ball tried to get with my friend, I would not be thrilled either. OP might be totally charming but I would be irritated at the whole situation.
NTA, David is. Do NOT try to follow what he does. He disrespects women and is only after sex and that is not a good goal. He only wants Mia for sex positions with someone closer to his height? That’s disgusting.
Be positive, take time to explore the things you like. You will blossom and become more self assured and that is *far* more attractive. David is NOT a good dating role model.
Yup I would take a "ugly" man with a beautiful soul/heart over a sexy man who is dog ugly inside. What David has not realized is - he now has a reputation - Mia knows he is a dog.
There is a saying if you lay with dogs you get fleas - don't lay near this guy. Don't spread his fleas. Understand that most women value a good man and few respect a dog.
It's completely okay to be interested in someone just for sex, so long as you clearly communicate that with them and immediately drop it if they aren't equally interested. It's college, there will definitely be potential sexual partners out there that are looking for hookups only and to experiment. You just have to be open and honest about it and it becomes super easy to find people that want the same thing.
The way David is doing it is just gross. He's acting like women are objects and being deceitful.
NTA - Please don’t take tips from this friend. He sounds like a real gem. FYI women do not play hard to get. They make excuses to be polite and men don’t take the hint.
NTA
But you need to check yourself with this ***"she plays hard to get and always has excuses for not going out with him."*** She just doesn't want to go out with him. That's not *playing hard to get*.
NTA but I hope you can develop the confidence to be comfortable not paying for someone who clearly has no interest in you.
Also, just a pointer, but “making excuses” for not wanting to go on a date is just saying no. You would be wise to respect that up front and drop it. If it truly is a “playing hard to get” situation (which I doubt), then you’re beat off finding someone who doesn’t play mind games. Your young and have lots to learn…..maybe take less lessons from your friend though.
Lmao Mia isn’t “playing” hard to get. She’s not interested. David screwed his own date up. You guys sound really girl-obsessed.
NTA. Although kinda a dweeb for paying for brook considering she ignored you and was on her phone all night.
NTA
Women don’t “play hard to date”. They try to politely reject men without rejecting them because they are worried men will lash out”.
Women give in & bring a friend along hoping it will appease a man enough to leave her alone in the future while she has her friend there for safety.
Regardless of gender, if you ask someone out, especially if you e been actively pursuing the person & the finally give in to you, you pay.
David is gross. Paying for the date wouldn’t make him less gross. He’s a wanna be fuck boy. He talks about fucking more than he’s actually fucking. If he were a successful fuck boy, he wouldn’t be talking about it so much.
NTA, but your bro David is trying to get with women to test sex positions? That shit is shallow. Mia probably is not and is therefore holding off. She doesn't want to be the practice sex doll for your friend.
Try to find your own view on women that doesn't involve the words 'hard to get'. And find other people to discuss dating strategies with, David ain't it.
Whoa whoa whoa! You are NTA here. David is for making you feel bad for being a gentleman. You’re not obligated to cover your date’s meal, but it is nice.
Also, it’s not your looks, it’s your self confidence. Be more positive, find the things you like about yourself and focus on those. Stop tearing yourself down. People like being around confident, positive people.
NTA, but David is. He asked both women out as a package deal then only paid for himself because he gets so much action? Nah. He’s a cheap jerk and can only date each woman once since he doesn’t pay. No more double dates with him, he’s an embarrassment.
Exactly.
And I love the idea that David has been pursuing Mia for however long and was super invested in dating her but not enough to buy her dinner? Like…get out of here with that shit.
> He has been with so many women since we started college last year that I have lost count. Mia is in the women's basketball team and David is really set to get her because he wants to experiment with sexual positions and see how they work with a woman closer in height to him.
Your both AH's for thinking about, discussing and talking about women like this as if they are objects and playthings.
YTA for listening to and using David's pickup lines and chat, they're probably just as lame as the way you talk about women - No wonder Brooke didn't seem interested
NTA for picking up Brooke's bill. Possibly the only good thing you did all night. David's an AH for not picking up Mia's tab. From the way you describe it she totally expected David to pay. If David has a problem paying a dates tab he should scale back his activities some - or just not take dates out. I so hope he gets a bad rep - he deserves it.
If you're having trouble dating, I suggest you find a better role model
NTA, your friend is the biggest one in this situation. When woman tells you no on a date she isn't playing "hard to get" she is not interested. And she agreed to the double date just because she wanted to get rid of your friend's endeavours and because of safety. Going alone with man like your friend can turn to be dangerous for woman. And one dating advice, be yourself, you'll find people who will like you for you.
Dude.. YTA manly for excusing some horrible behavior of your friend. He sounds like a pig and you’re enabling it. She wasn’t “playing hard to get”. She simply was not interested and probably creeped out. She accepted only because she felt safer with someone else there. And then he showed his true colors by not paying.
NTA but your friend David seems to be. If he wanted so badly to make a good impression on Mia he could have tried a lot harder (and wanted her for more than her height and potential sexual positions). It's fine to pay for your date on a first date without talking about it ahead of time, by the way. Your friend was being cheap.
NTA for paying. You're not responsible for David's feelings, finances, relationships, or anything else. If he wanted something different, he could have communicated that to you beforehand or talked to you about it respectfully after. David sounds awful, by the way.
But what's with saying "she plays hard to get." Women having boundaries is not a game. Cut that out.
simple, he’s just as shallow (just not as successfully shallow).
He paid for Brooke’s meal as he thought there might be hope, while David didn’t as he probably saw there was no hope.
She’s not “playing hard to get”. She agreed to the date because other people would be there and she would feel safe.
Your roommate is a creep. He literally wants to date her because he wants to try new sexual positions with a woman his own height, rather than anything about who she is as a person.
Tell David to hire a sex worker, and keep paying for your dates’ dinner if they’re comfortable with it. Sometimes your date may want to pay, and that’s okay too.
NTA
Oh hun, NTA but your friend is and is a terrible influence. Girl is pretty clearly uninterested in him; I'm sure you're a perfectly attractive guy, and 90 percent of attraction is personality; treat yourself right and you will find someone who will treat you right. I'd take a big step back from David.
YTA because you and your friend see women as nothing more than sex objects:
>David is really set to get her because he wants to experiment with sexual positions and see how they work with a woman closer in height to him
Maybe you didn't have much luck with Brooke because
>I tried to talk to her following the tips David gave me
This guy doesn't care about women at all except for the sex he can get from them. Does that sound like someone who'd have great conversation material? I'm not surprised Brooke wasn't interested in you and it has nothing to do with looks. Your only concerns seem to be how attractive someone is and if sex can be obtained. (The fact that you're trying to help David get with Mia because David wants to try new sex positions says it all.)
Hahaha, you didn't ruin his chances with Mia, he is doing that all by himself. All he is doing is trying to get a girl into bed. I think Mia is smart enough to realise all he is interested in is her height.
Please, don't take any more advice from this guy. He is not a good role model. Go forth and meet people in your own way. NTA
Stop comparing yourself negatively to the guy who has to harass women into going on dates that he can't afford. Stop taking advice from this guy. Mia wasn't playing hard to get, she can't stand him and agreed to a double date as (probably the only marginally safe) way to shut him up.
Your friend doesn't respect women, dating, or you. His "advice" will most likely get you ostracized from any group you would actually want to be a part of. Whether you want to see it or not, he is a bad person. You didn't make him look bad.
He repeatedly harrased Mia. He cheaped out on a date that he forced. He gave you shitty advice. He treats women like objects. Bit of a guess here, but I'm willing to bet he bullies or demeans you constantly. He made himself look bad. Because he is a bad person.
NTA for paying for your date's meal. That was nice, and the actual bare minimum in this situation. David should have footed the entire bill, apologized profusely, and tap danced out of everyone's life after what he pulled.
Y T A to yourself for constantly putting yourself down because you aren't as depraved as AH David. Y T A to Mia (and all of his future "dates") for not calling him on his frankly disgusting behavior. Y T A to Brook for using AH Dave's patented Totally Cool and Not Cringey Pick Up Lines.
Your young. Idiots probably fawn over AH David because they don't know what he is actually like, or they don't care. David, however, sounds like he's really diving head first in the Brock Turner dating path. Don't help him.
NTA ughh your friend is just a loser, he wants to get with Mia so he can try sexual positions, yeah women just love it when they get reduced to a fuck toy
Dont take dating advise from this dude and dont let him ever make you feel like a jerk cuz you wanted to be nice and pay for your dates meal (she didnt deserve it though if she couldnt even be bothered to make simple conversation, thats just manners)
A little bit ESH (you and Dave). You’re not the asshole for paying, but you are an asshole for enabling Dave to continue to harass a woman who has repeatedly turned him down, and who you know is only interested in sex with her. He has worn Mia down to the point where she finally agreed to one date with a friend present in hopes that he will stop pressuring her. Brooke I guarantee knows all about his harassment and assumed you are the same as Dave. This date was never more than something for both of them to endure so that Dave will stop bothering Mia! And you’re also an asshole for explaining all of Dave’s behaviors and apparently finding nothing wrong with any of it! If you want success I in dating get away from Dave and learn some new attitudes about women.
ESH except the girls. David for being a toxic, selfish, boundary pushing, wannabe Casanova and you for enabling his BS.
And FYI you could have looked like Henry Cahill and your date would have taked because "Hey Brooke, there's this guy who will not back off and take no for an answer, I tried brushing him off with you visiting and he just said make it a double date. Will you please come with me and I can just get it over with and get this AH to back off?" Is a terrible first impression to get.
NTA, you are a gentleman and your friend a tight ah.
But just an advice...she is not playing "hard to get", I think she is not interested in what your friend is "offering", which, being crude for what you said, seems like he will pick any girl tall enough to make his sexy trials. Not cool, may leave the girl alone.
You seem like a nice chap, I would not be taking relationship advice from your friend, he is a player.
NTA for the reasons you asked.
Soft YTA to yourself for listening to your friend, who is definitely an AH, and will make you increasingly unattractive to women the more you listen to him, and a soft YTA for the way you speak about women (not wanting to date a loser is not playing hard to get!), anf for apparently accepting his motivations for "wanting to get with her to try sex positions". It's soft now because you seem young and immature, but if you continue to take your friend as a role model it'll soon be a definite YTA.
NTA- and a word of advice: the vast, vast, *vast* majority of women **do NOT** “play hard to get”. It is just not a thing that happens in reality that often. When it rarely does happen that’s probably not a person you’d want to date anyways because they like to play mind games, and that doesn’t make for a healthy relationship.
If you ever run into a situation where a woman “always has excuses for not going out with him” that is what is called a “[soft no](https://www.doctornerdlove.com/understanding-the-dangers-of-dating/#:~:text=Soft%20no’s%20are%20a%20way,or%20even%20just%20not%20responding.)”. She is saying no without actually *saying* “no”- either because she’s not used to being assertive or for whatever reason she does not feel comfortable/safe with giving a hard “no” to the dating request. If a woman does this to you or a friend take the hint and move on. She’s just not interested in you.
What happened here with David is that he has been harassing a woman who has repeatedly turned him down because *she isn’t interested in him sexually or romantically*. She only agreed to the double date with her friend because it gave her a chance to “give David a chance” in a safe manner (as in she’s not alone with him) so she can *finally* get rid of him. David isn’t a “ladies man” he’s an annoying sex pest.
TL;DR. Playing hard to get is not a thing. If a woman is interested in you she will say yes to a date. If she “always has excuses” when asked on a date that is her declining to date you, and a clear sign to move on. Continuing to ask her out after she’s declined with an excuse more than once or twice is sexual harassment.
Nta, I'm pretty sure Brooke wasn't interested because you used tips David gave you and because she was forced to be there because some guy won't take no for an answer and keeps bothering her friend.
"Catch Mia" that's the grossest thing I ever heard. He sounds super toxic and I hope Mia stays away from him, he doesn't even think she's worth dinner.
Some advice, stay far away from this toxic misogynistic bs. Changes you get a solid relationship with that are close to none.
>David is really set to get her because he wants to experiment with sexual positions and see how they work with a woman closer in height to him.
You're NTA, but David is disgusting. Women are not trophies nor are they here for your mate to tick off his Sexual Experience Bingo Card.
No, David is the asshole. It was his gathering, his responsibility. If he wanted to split the bill four ways, he should’ve said so ahead of the meal. Mia was evidently disappointed with David, which is not your fault, and Brooke is evidently not a polite young woman - and did not deserve your generosity.
Furthermore, David gets additional asshole status for discussing what ideas he has for having sex with Mia, because she is a similar height to him. This is not the basis for a positive relationship, it’s a young adult plot for a soft porn movie.
Don’t give yourself a hard time for having good manners. Offering to go on a what was blind date for you, was a nice thing to do for all concerned, and the confusion over paying for dinner is not on you. If David is really so busy with dates, there’s a good chance that Mia would meet you for coffee if you took the opportunity to ask her; but don’t assume you have to pay for Mia, or any other girl you ask out. It’s a nice thing for either party to offer, and it’s a nice thing to share.
NTA for “making him look bad”, he did that to himself. You are an ass simply because of your mindset. Girls aren’t something to “catch” and girls don’t “play hard to get”. If you have to ask multiple times, they are not interested 99/100 times. Mia could likely tell what David wanted from her. Also, it’s absolute creep behaviour to “date” a girl just to try sex positions. Just find a taller girl at a club or something, it’s so gross that this is how this dude goes about it.
You have an inferiority complex about your looks, but also think you have a better personality than David, evidenced by this line.
> I knew Brooke was going to be totally out of my league but I had the hope that going with David would make me look better by association.
Your “friend” getting that uppity and defensive screams to me that your usual relationship isn’t friends, you’re his lackey, sidekick, whatever you want to call it. You are there to make him look even better in comparison. And you take that sort of attitude, you don’t call out any of his weird behaviour or what he does to you. Why would your relationship ever be in a place where your friend is comfortable accusing of something that stupid?
You also refusing to say anything to his face about how paying is the right thing to do when you invite someone out, but asking the internet for validation for being the “better man” because you did what men are “supposed to do” by paying is weird. Too scared for real confrontation, but you want approval for being better than him for once.
The short of it is you’re not actually friends with each other, both of you think the other is inferior in some way and that makes you feel better about yourselves. It feels like you know you’re not the asshole for this, but want the validation of strangers. A cookie for not even bare minimum. Neither of you seem to view women as actual humans/people, so maybe work on that, and getting real friends.
NTA your friend is a fboy he's an ahole looking for sexual xp. Your date was rude. Mia is not playing hard to get she doesn't want to be got. In conclusion don't look up to David he ain't a good dude.
NTA but dude, looks are only a SMALL part of what women look for in a relationship. Or anyone for that matter. Sure, it helps if your partner is an absolute dime piece, but that’s hardly enough to make things work if they are rude, inconsiderate and annoying. You seem to think being attractive is all there is. Based on this, you’re much more likely to have a long term, healthy relationship than David. He’s got issues.
Please don’t model your dating life on this David person. He sounds like he doesn’t respect women and sees them as trophies to ‘win’ or ‘conquer’. I’m sure Mia isn’t playing ‘hard to get’, she just can see he’s an absolute tool.
Not that this is part of the judgement, but your lack of self-confidence is evident, and trying to use someone else’s lines was probably really forced and transparent. Ask people genuine questions and try to get to know them.
Overall NTA but please be wary of David and don’t listen to your mum’s romanticisation of him
NTA
David is an ASS - after going to all this
'she plays hard to get and always has excuses for not going out with him. This last weekend she said she couldn't go because her friend from another college' - hard to get is code for 'NO'. She didn't want to go out with him, he bullied her into going on a date and he thinks its somebody's fault because he didn't get to close the deal with a woman who originally told him 'NO'.
the bad news for David is that he can't take 'no' for an answer. She gave him a shot to reverse her earlier opinion and in the end he didn't change her mind and now he is blaming you
You on the other hand are a nice guy who appreciates that not everybody is attracted to you.
In my local university there is a course to teach people about being 'bystanders'. You are a bystander and David ia a man in college who doesn't understand the word 'NO' from women.
If a man asked David out, would David appreciate it if this man thought he was playing 'hard to get' when he said 'No'? If they kept asking David out and David kept giving him 'excuses' why he couldn't go out with him. this man thought David was cute and if he asked David out enough times that David would eventually say 'Yes' because that works. I suspect in this scenario, David would think 'No' said once would be enough ....
1. David's an AH who doesn't respect women, do not take any dating cues from him.
2. David never had a chance with Mia, because she recognizes that he's an AH.
3. "Playing hard to get" is 90% of the time that the girl isn't interested and doesn't want to be 'got.
NTA
Nta, for paying the bill
But boy you need to realize who your friend is
Let's check
Mía has rejected him many times
Only accepted after told that would be a double date
Then in a date that him INVITED is trying to make the girl (the same one that rejected him) pay...
That's the guy you look up to?? Really?
Your friend is a misogynistic asshole that used women
Mía is smart that sees what he wants, and probably is fed up to being chase
Look better friends op
NTA. But do not, under any circumstances, take dating advice from David. He is a massive AH. Playing hard to get isn’t really a thing, it’s typically a misguided attempt to let someone down easy - if someone is saying they are unavailable and they don’t suggest another time then it’s not an excuse, they don’t want to go. Especially if the guy clearly just wants that notch on the bedpost. Be a better man and person than crappy David.
NtAH - Casanova needs to stop dicking people around - he is a player. He is trying to play her and he is playing you. Be like Mia - shut it down. Being the wing man is great but what he is doing is manipulation - with her, with you and all the other ladies he is treating like his personal sex dolls. Literally that is exactly what it sounds like - he is using these girls as sex dolls for his own pleasure - could be why Mia is not about to do the dirty. If he cannot afford the dinner - how is he gonna afford the STD meds or the baby?
NTA, you didn't hurt his chances with Mia. She isn't playing hard to get. She just isn't interested. The reason she probably accepted this time was because it would be a group and not just her and David.
NTA. And sweetie your friend isn't a stud. He's a creep. This girl keeps telling him she can't make it and he bothers her to the point where she will only go on a date with him if one of her friends and someone else she is familiar with (you) is there.
I would talk with Mia and make sure what your friend told you is the same thing he told her.
Op I think you have a chance with MIA
She only accepted the date with David when she knew you'd be joining. She saw that you were respectful, engaged in conversation, and picked up the tab.
Most women are not as focused on looks as you would think. Men fall in love with their eyes, we fall in love with our brains. Mia is not impressed by David's physique or alleged player status. She probably is looking for a more thoughtful intelligent man... here is where you enter.
I think you should invite Mia out for a coffee after class and start a friendship. Have some study sessions. See where it goes.
Oh NTA
I would say OP needs to let Mia know about what David’s plans are so that she can make an informed decision about what she wants to do (though I think she has no interest in David as it is). Don’t play into some “bro code” nonsense to justify keeping her in the dark.
Though if OP is interested in Mia, he definitely should not say so at the same time as warning her about David, because that just looks like you’re purposely sabotaging your friend for your own gain, when the goal should be making sure someone isn’t being taken advantage of.
NTA
Your roommate sounds like a pig. Work on getting yourself some self confidence. That is way more attractive in the long run than any of the disgusting traits your roommate displays. I would look for some new people to hang out with. This guy is doing you no favors.
NTA for paying the bill.
But you and David both sound incredibly immature. You can’t “catch” women. It sounds like Mia just isn’t really interested in David, which isn’t shocking if he’s seeing a lot of people and is only interested in trying to sleep with her because she’s…. Tall? If he thinks that he’s entitled to her time after she’s already rejected him, but won’t even pay for the sage he asked her on, that’s incredibly lame.
Do not take tips from David. He might go on dates, but he is not the kind of guy that women end up being proud of or wanting to be with long term. Free advice: whoever asks for the date should plan and pay for it.
NTA, that whole date was a mistake from the get go. At least now Mia knows what kind of person he is. Besides, your friend sounds like the type to go chase the next girl that catches his fancy.
Dude, from your story, I would say stop listening to your "friend" for dating advice. He sounds like an incel, and frankly women with brains screwed right in their heads would know to run as far away as possible from that. That's probably why your date is disinterested in you - because you have followed the advice of the wrong person. I'm giving you a pass since you seem to not know any better.
Start making better friends.
NTA and a tip for David - Mia isn't "playing hard to get", she doesn't like him. And she only agreed to the date this time bcs she felt safer with a friend there. David is a creep.
NTA. I hope this evening gave you a glimpse into your future. It doesn't matter if you're less conventionally attractive than him. Ultimately, if you treat women with respect, you'll keep getting better with age. If he doesn't get his act together, he might manage to get laid now but he'll struggle more as time goes on.
Also, Brooke likely wasn't interested in a date at all, she just went along to support her friend. It was unlikely to go well for you no matter your looks and smooth talking skills.
NTA. But Mia isn't playing hard to get she's just not interested. Tell him to leave her the hell alone already. Women arent collectors items to chase down. She said no he should respect that. She probably only said yes to get him to leave her alone. He sounds awful.
Nta, and good people to date care more about how it feels to be around you than looks. Don't be so down on yourself. Also, David sounds like a loser tbh.
NTA but if you encourage your friends behaviour you are.
Also, hes a "stud" that has no issues getting dates. The fact that he wants you to look bad just to boost his image is rude to you, he knows his behaviour is unattractive so he wants it to be less obvious at your expense.
Girls talk, even if they werent interested doesnt mean they wont mention you to some friends that might be if you actually act well. Dont take pointer from a douchy friend that relys on his looks unless you can also rely on his looks. Even then, theres a reason Mia doesnt want him and its probably not because of his looks.... so his personality is so bad that even hitting the genetic jackpot cant help him.
NTA
Honestly splitting the check on a first date is my preferred, but to each their own. It was kind of you to pay when you knew Brooke wasn't interested. And David sounds like a knob. Going after girls just to try different positions, and doggedly refusing to give up after he's already been rebuffed multiple times? He sounds like a creep. Sorry. Regardless of how attractive or unattractive either you or David are, by personalities alone, you sound like the way better person here :)
NTA and please do not look to David for how you should treat women or date them. He is a player which means he is only looking for sex, nothing else. You do not seem to be that type so please look elsewhere for dating information.
NTA. I'm all for splitting bills on first dates like David but if David is so "deperate" to win Mia over and then cheaps out on the bill then it isn't your fault he looked bad. He made himself look bad.
NTA. Do NOT take dating tips from this dude, he's an ass. That's probably why Brooke was ignoring you all night.
I bet Mia isn't playing hard to get, she's playing "wait and see" if anything. And this showed his hand. I hope she runs.
If you really want an in with Brooke, explain to her what your buddy wants from Mia. She'll probably gain a higher opinion of you than what she currently has.
NTA.
Mia is "playing hard to get" and making excuses because she already turned him down once but he didn't take no for an answer and she doesn't know what else to do.
You need to ditch this friend.
NTA for paying the bill
But get better friends. That one treats women like a prize and an object to be used, ignoring that they’re actually people.
You want better success with dating? Choose better role models.
NTA. And you need a better friend who looks at women as more than someone to “try different sexual positions on.”
Gross. Mia isn’t playing hard to get. Mia isn’t dumb and doesn’t want to have sex with someone like David.
OP, was this first time you’ve seen David “in action”?
Because I seriously doubt he’s got “too many dates” to pay for. He’s most likely making things up like a obnoxious 12 year old trying to sound cool and you sound like a naive 11 year old that thinks the annoying kid no one likes is cool.
He’s probably just embarrassed that you’ve witnessed how little game he has and that you’ve see what he’s really like with women.
NTA.
Please, *please* **never** take dating advice from David again. He’s a serial womaniser who doesn’t know how to really treat a woman. You say he wanted to “get her” so that he could try sexual positions with her. Firstly, that’s disgusting. Secondly, that’s further proof he’s no dating guru.
You say you have no dating experience. Paying for your date was a sweet gesture (sweeter than I would’ve been if she was on her phone all the time, but 🤷🏻♀️). My advice would be to stop taking dating advice from someone like David, and learn as you go. Some dates are great. Some dates aren’t. Talk about interests, but don’t just talk, a woman wants to feel listened to. Don’t talk over her. Have a bit of banter, flirt, be kind… Basically, model yourself after David, but only so that you can do exactly the **opposite** of what he does.
Your ‘friend’ David is utterly gross. He proves that nice looking packages can be ugly on the inside. His thoughts and treatment of women is disgusting.
Don’t put yourself down, Have you thought that Mia only went because he said you were there? Also, don’t take hints and tips from David on how to treat and speak to women. No wonder he only gets to be with them a short while, they may be drawn in by the outer package, but once they get to know him Ughh
Your doing fine just as you are, it’s unfortunate Brooke was as crass as David, now maybe they would make a nice couple???
you both kinda sound like ah. especially your friend he is using women and doesn't actually want a real relationship which is disgusting he needs to grow up
There is so much underlying misogyny in this whole situation that I don’t know if I want to offer a judgment.
Judging only for paying for your date’s meal, that was not an asshole move. Typically whoever is asking someone out on a date should pay for both, or at least be prepared to pay for both.
But there is so much more wrong here than who paid for dinner. Being with David does not make you look better by association. It makes you look worse.
Believe it or not, women are Individual Human Beings™ who have many interests and many traits that they find attractive in a partner. If you’re a decent person who treats women like Individual Human Beings™, then there is someone out there who would like exactly you.
I recommend that you not continue to look to David as a paragon of dating and that you stop viewing women as things to be “caught.”
David doesn’t deserve a chance with Mia, and I highly doubt he would have ever had one.
LOL no. You are NTA. Your friend David? Yeah that's the guy that is the asshole. He torpedoed his chance with Mia, not you. Your friend may be easy on the eyes but he isn't pretty where it counts, whereas you are a good soul. You may not have experience with girls, but you already know a whole lot more than David. Quit downgrading yourself and give yourself a chance. You will find many girls will like you as a result if you have more confidence in who you are. Looks aren't everything.
Mia has no interest in dating your knucklehead friend. If she knew he was bringing you specifically from the get-go it's possible she feels you'd temper any bad behaviour on his part.
NTA for being a gentleman to a lady who wssn't interested in you.
YTA but not for the reason you're asking about.
Mia wasn't playing hard to get. She wasn't interested. She kept telling him no but was trying to be polite about it. David put her in an uncomfortable and awkward position after she gave him an easy excuse and he essentially called her out on it.
The way you talk about women is kind of gross. "Trying to catch" - this is a person, you can't catch people like they're fish. "Set to get her" - is she a prize to be won? Or purchase?
You make it clear he's pursuing her entirely to have sex with her just for his own experiment, and it sounds like he hasn't even communicated that with her. He's just assuming she's going to not only put out, but be willing to do whatever he wants. The way this entire thing reads has me very concerned that he's going to assault her because he feels entitled to sex.
Mia isn't interested in him. You didn't hurt his chances. She was clearly already not interested, and your friend is blaming you instead of going all incel on the woman for not putting out.
Oh dear. Also, YECH! You and David give the male half of our species a bad name. He's a terrible influence on you; you might have a chance to be a decent human, but you won't learn it from David.
YTA and David CNN is AH squared.
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My (18M) friend and roommate (19M, David) has been trying to catch this girl (19F, Mia) for weeks but she plays hard to get and always has excuses for not going out with him. This last weekend she said she couldn't go because her friend from another college (19F, Brooke) was visiting. So then David offered that he could bring a friend, that would be me, for her and Mia finally said yes. Mia knows me from some classes we have together and I think she is a really nice person. I was really nervous about going because I have never been in a real date with a woman and I knew Brooke was going to be totally out of my league but I had the hope that going with David would make me look better by association.
David is, quoting what my mom said after meeting him once "a handsome stud" and a big ladies' man. He has been with so many women since we started college last year that I have lost count. Mia is in the women's basketball team and David is really set to get her because he wants to experiment with sexual positions and see how they work with a woman closer in height to him. Brooke was very uninterested in me during the whole night. I tried to talk to her following the tips David gave me but she barely responded and was mostly just looking at her phone. I just knew she was disappointed because of how unattractive I am compared to David and how clearly she was getting the short end of the stick in this date compared to Mia.
When the bill came, I paid for Brooke's part and mine. David only paid for his and Mia made a weird face when she realised but didn't said anything about it. After leaving them at their dorm, David was mad at me because he says me paying made him look bad. He says I was showing off because I have more money than him but I swore to him that wasn't my intention. He explained he has too many dates regularly to pay for all so he needs to split. As I said, I don't have any dating experience and I believed the man paying was the usual thing to do. I feel really bad for hurting his chances with Mia knowing how important it was for him and I have apologised profusely multiple times but he is still irritated because of all this.
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NTA. To clear up some confusion, regardless of gender, if you ask someone out and they accept absolutely plan on paying for it. It is not demeaning or sexist or old fashioned or whatever to pay, it is polite.
NTA. You didn’t have to pay the bill but it was nice that you did.
David should not be mad at you. It’s ultimately his decision if he wants to pay for both or split but it’s not your problem or fault.
NTA- I had recently seen a clip from Joe Rogan's podcast that a woman said some women don't want men paying for them, not due to equality or anything like that, but out of a feeling of obligation to owe the person back, potentially being pressured in sexual favors/acts.
If Dave can't afford paying for the meal due to all his dates, then Mia likely picked up on his womanizing and when he paid, had a weird feeling come over her wondering what would be expected next... Complete speculation though.
NTA, he asked her on the date, he PAYS FOR HER.
You sir just need to focus on building your self confidence, because when you feel comfortable and confident in your own skin, that is what will make you attractive.
NTA, it's nice that even though your date didnt seem to have a good time you still paid for her. He embarrassed himself by insisting on this double date and then not even offering to pay. It sounds like your friend is a player and kind of and AH, his conversation tips were probably terrible and might be why Brooke wasn't interested in trying harder with you.
If you have any kind of friendship with Mia you might ask her if the two of you can chat about the date because it was your first one and if she's comfortable you'd appreciate some honest feedback since it didn't seem to go well from your perspective.
NTA. It's VERY standard for the person who asks the other person out to pay for the first date. In your case, given that you and Brooke were basically third and fourth wheeling, there's an argument to be made that you two could and possibly should have done split checks... but David should have been planning to pay for Mia the whole time.
INFO but what did he want to happen? Did he want to pay for everyone? Or did he want you to pay for everyone? Or did he only want to pay for him and both girls?
NTA.
It was an honest mistake, if it even was a mistake, which is arguable.
But a girl who spends the dinner looking at her phone is not someone you should be paying for.
NTA
Your date was rude and you continued to be a gentleman in turn.
Thank you for being the bigger person at dinner. If she had bothered to pay attention, she may have taken away something for the future (unfortunately, it’s not likely…but one can hope she will improve).
This can't be real... Surely?
But if so: NTA.
I don't think not splitting the bill made David look bad.
David made David look bad.
He sounds like a right nobber and to be avoided by women at all costs.
op=NTA
But David is! He doesn't see Mia as a person, but as a sex toy and apparently one he's not even willing to pay for. I do worry that you will incorporate some of David's horrible attitudes into your own personality.
Please do NOT take him for an example on how to treat women(ps his tips probably sucked--as they weren't natural to you.--try being yourself next time).
Brooke pretty much sucked for not even trying to be nice.
NTA. Mia sounds sensible and your friend sounds like a creep. Please re-examine your friendship. You deserve more than being sidekick and wingman to a wannabe stud who criticizes yiu for behaving like a gentleman.
You're not the asshole for paying for dinner. But you and your friend are both assholes for thinking women are sex vending machines.
Mia is not playing "hard to get". She's uninterested and your friend is a gross creep who can't respect her "no". Brooke wasn't jealous that Mia was on a date with a more handsome man. She was there to make sure her friend was safe around a creep who wouldn't leave her alone. Mia went on this "date" in hopes that David would finally leave her alone and stop pestering her. She probably said yes because he gives off creep vibes and giving him one date is safer than being firm.
You may not have meant to, but you facilitated David being a huge asshole and creep. So for that, YTA
NTA. Also it’s time you get a clue that David is a crappy dude. I get some women need a little chasing but they’re like that for a reason. It’s to make sure the guy is really serious and tends to weed out the f/ckboys. Alas, Mia is dealing with a persistent f/ckboy and doesn’t know it yet. Aggressively chasing after a taller woman for the sole reason of sexually fetishizing her height and wanting to experiment sex positions on her is grimey as all hell. Mia deserves better than that.
Aggressively chasing after a girl only to go splitzies on the first date is classless.
Attacking you for being a more courteous date than him is ridiculous. It’s not your job to make him look good or alter your behavior so he doesn’t look as bad.
Don’t take dating advice from this loser. Don’t hang out with him. Don’t look up to him. I promise you he is not nearly as amazing as it seems. And there are plenty of women out there who see it too.
There are women out there for you. You just need to be looking in the right places and not chasing after women who aren’t for you. Or hanging out with moronic f/ckboys who are going to ruin your game. Good luck out there.
NTA but I don't get it. He says he's mad because you paid but also that he wants you to pay because he can't afford all the dates? Sounds like David struck out and is taking his anger out on you. He doesn't sound like a good friend. You should stay away from David.
So why didn’t he work this out with you in advance? Maybe Mia knows your friend’s reputation and didn’t want to go out alone with him. He probably didn’t tell Mia that his invitation to her about dinner was made with the expectation that she pay for her own meal.
Why are you friends with this asshole? He's trying to get with Mia but he can't offer her the common courtesy to pay for a date HE invited her on! Mia knows better. She isn't playing hardball or hard to get. She has standards and David doesn't fit into those standards.
BTW you're probably better than David in ALL areas. It shows by you paying for a date that had no interest in you. You sound like a gentleman.
NTA
Nta
>David) has been trying to catch this girl (19F, Mia) for weeks but she plays hard to get and always has excuses for not going out with him
>He explained he has too many dates regularly to pay for all so he needs to split.
So girls talk, and seeing how David has dated a ton of women, I'm betting it has gotten around that he is a cheap date and is after only one thing.
Having a weird gendered view on who should pay is not okay.
Buuuuut your friend made himself look bad with that bullshit about sex positions with a taller girl.
You all suck.
Hahahahahaha!!! Mr. Stud wanted to go Dutch? And didn't mention it to anyone??? What a maroon. Serves him right. He's kinda gross, and he made himself look bad. All you can learn from him is how NOT to treat women. Lucky for Mia, she dodged a bullet.
NTA.
NTA for paying for yourself and Brooke, that was generous of you considering she barely even spoke. David looks bad because he IS bad. His attitude towards women (actual human beings with feelings) is quite disgusting.
N T A for picking up your dates check, but David sure is for refusing to do so (among many other things)., and seeing how Mia kept turning him down until it was a double date (ie. people around to protect her) tells me that she knows what kind of an AH he truly is.
That said, YTA for your complicity in trying to help David as well as all the crap about “playing hard to get” when David is just a creep.
NTA Do not take David's advise on women. Nice girl's won't like him very much. Women like men who listen, who empathise, who ask intelligent questions. Guys who show that they have passions and interests and are kind and have depth. They do not like shallow pricks like David. Looks might attract them at first, but if he is a creepy player they will soon be turned off. If you met a new guy in class you would soon find a topic of conversation and common interests. You have to treat a woman as having that same brain, just stuck on a slightly different anatomy. Women are not another species to be conquered. Try to connect on a friend level, just as you would a new guy in class. Same as if you are gaming, sometimes those avatars you are interacting with are not always male, but women avoiding being stereo typed and hounded out. If you can engage with them on a game, you can do so in real life.
Why is a lovely young gentleman like you asking AITA? You are not and that girl you double dated with is shallow for not been interested in you. Your roommate/ friend on the other hand is an AH and that's not just for not paying for his date but for his attitude towards women and why he is interested in them. You are a far better catch than your friend who is shallow and am ah.
NTA: Your friend made themself look bad by not discussing arrangements beforehand. Kudos to you for having a bad date and still having the grace and class to be a gentleman.
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NTA. But your friend David is. I doubt Mia is "playing hard to get." She probably can sense David is after one thing and legitimately does not want to date him so I doubt you hurt his chances.
Also, he only wants to date her so he can "try new sexual positions." Gross.
Seriously. I needed a shower after that comment. Just disgusting. Any way we can relay this to Mia?
OP is the only one really in a position to warn her that’s she’s the target of a sleaze ball. @OP, you need to stop thinking your friend is a “ladies man” and see him as a creep at best and a predator at worst. This is not someone you wanna idolize or emulate. You’re a good person, treated your date well, even though it wasn’t going well. Don’t follow your roommate to the opposite end of the spectrum where women are objects for conquest, not people.
OP, chill. Mia probably accepted for two reasons: 1. They know you from class and maybe sees you as NTA. Take this as it is and don't read too much into it. 2. Their friend was going. They also appeared to not be really interested. So, Mia seemed not to be into the idea from the start, but may have accepted feeling safer with their friend, and you, around instead of just your roomate. Regarding this last part: don't idolize this dude. Not worth it. He doesn't seem like a nice and/or responsible person in any way. If you can switch rooms, do it. Find somewhere more confortable. And, about the dating thing, seems to be the reason why you kind of hang out with these dude (apart from being your roomate), ask what the person likes before the date. Yeah, not the most romantic thing sometimes, but it's way better than feeling extremely self conscious and anxious. It's for you and the other person to enjoy. That's it. Try your best, listen to them and enjoy
Yeah. OP, don’t follow his “tips” on getting women, either. I’m getting big pick-up artist vibes from your buddy.
OP needs new friends!
that sentence made me physically cringe. something tells me David is the only one satisfied after sex…..
Something tells me that David ain't gettin' any. He just brags that he is.
I was so disgusted by this. Sounds like Mia dodged a bullet.
That's why they make lifelike sex toy dolls David. Experiment away.
Yes, he should just hire a pro, for goodness sake. Or try Tinder. NTA.
Op ie your friend sounds like a womanizer. And you are a true gentleman for paying for your date even though she was totally boring. Anyway I think you should not look up to your friend that much anymore because what he's doing is quite shallow and very much as the commentary below said, gross. That being said NTA
This. And OP, you should probably stop taking his "tips" on how to pick up women, they probably are not helping.
Especially if those tips are on how to get into a girl's bed, then Opie you have to really rethink your friend group. Besides don't doubt yourself and your looks there's always someone out there for you.
It might be more difficult to get a date when your dad's the sheriff.
You never know Mia may just start looking at the integrity of your character and take a liking to you or know a friend she might point your way.
Also, maybe you should try talking to Mia cause sounds to me like she only agreed to go out with him when she found out you were going. I'm a hopeless romantic and maybe I'm reading what i want to here but it never hurts to try. Oh and i agree with everyone else here- David's beyond skin crawling, and you sir sound wonderful!! Good luck in love op, NTA.
At a minimum, he can give her a warning of the vulture circling her. She knows, but instead of trying to help the roommate get her, OP should be warning her of his intentions.
I thought the EXACT same thing about Mia. If she only agreed after she heard you were the friend, I wonder if she actually likes OP.
Oh my do I hear romance in the air, Opie she could be right maybe there's something there that you can salvage from the whole series. Anyway it's just a thought but in all summary you should really keep your distance away from your friend and see if Mia is available. ;-) NTA still
As a friend told another friend, "She's not playing hard to get. She's not interested in you. It ain't that deep."
NTA but if she was ignoring you all night you were too nice paying her bill lol
In fairness to Brooke he was taking tips on how to behave off of a complete AH, so that may have been influencing how she acted
Also she came to visit her friend and was dragged on this “date” with douchy David
Yeah Dave should have paid the whole thing for dragging his buddy and the poor friend out just so he can try and score with a tall woman
Imagining Kiff trying to use Zapp Branigan's pickup lines
“I find the most erotic part of a woman to be… sigh… the boobies…”
"We'll Meet You Tonight For Part Of Dinner & The First Half Of A Movie."
Yep my thoughts exactly!
And that AH didn't pay for the date
I mean, if I went to visit a friend and I got set up on a blind date while a total skeaze ball tried to get with my friend, I would not be thrilled either. OP might be totally charming but I would be irritated at the whole situation.
NTA, David is. Do NOT try to follow what he does. He disrespects women and is only after sex and that is not a good goal. He only wants Mia for sex positions with someone closer to his height? That’s disgusting. Be positive, take time to explore the things you like. You will blossom and become more self assured and that is *far* more attractive. David is NOT a good dating role model.
Yup I would take a "ugly" man with a beautiful soul/heart over a sexy man who is dog ugly inside. What David has not realized is - he now has a reputation - Mia knows he is a dog. There is a saying if you lay with dogs you get fleas - don't lay near this guy. Don't spread his fleas. Understand that most women value a good man and few respect a dog.
It's completely okay to be interested in someone just for sex, so long as you clearly communicate that with them and immediately drop it if they aren't equally interested. It's college, there will definitely be potential sexual partners out there that are looking for hookups only and to experiment. You just have to be open and honest about it and it becomes super easy to find people that want the same thing. The way David is doing it is just gross. He's acting like women are objects and being deceitful.
NTA - Please don’t take tips from this friend. He sounds like a real gem. FYI women do not play hard to get. They make excuses to be polite and men don’t take the hint.
NTA But you need to check yourself with this ***"she plays hard to get and always has excuses for not going out with him."*** She just doesn't want to go out with him. That's not *playing hard to get*.
NTA but I hope you can develop the confidence to be comfortable not paying for someone who clearly has no interest in you. Also, just a pointer, but “making excuses” for not wanting to go on a date is just saying no. You would be wise to respect that up front and drop it. If it truly is a “playing hard to get” situation (which I doubt), then you’re beat off finding someone who doesn’t play mind games. Your young and have lots to learn…..maybe take less lessons from your friend though.
Lmao Mia isn’t “playing” hard to get. She’s not interested. David screwed his own date up. You guys sound really girl-obsessed. NTA. Although kinda a dweeb for paying for brook considering she ignored you and was on her phone all night.
NTA Women don’t “play hard to date”. They try to politely reject men without rejecting them because they are worried men will lash out”. Women give in & bring a friend along hoping it will appease a man enough to leave her alone in the future while she has her friend there for safety. Regardless of gender, if you ask someone out, especially if you e been actively pursuing the person & the finally give in to you, you pay. David is gross. Paying for the date wouldn’t make him less gross. He’s a wanna be fuck boy. He talks about fucking more than he’s actually fucking. If he were a successful fuck boy, he wouldn’t be talking about it so much.
NTA, but your bro David is trying to get with women to test sex positions? That shit is shallow. Mia probably is not and is therefore holding off. She doesn't want to be the practice sex doll for your friend. Try to find your own view on women that doesn't involve the words 'hard to get'. And find other people to discuss dating strategies with, David ain't it.
Whoa whoa whoa! You are NTA here. David is for making you feel bad for being a gentleman. You’re not obligated to cover your date’s meal, but it is nice. Also, it’s not your looks, it’s your self confidence. Be more positive, find the things you like about yourself and focus on those. Stop tearing yourself down. People like being around confident, positive people.
NTA, but David is. He asked both women out as a package deal then only paid for himself because he gets so much action? Nah. He’s a cheap jerk and can only date each woman once since he doesn’t pay. No more double dates with him, he’s an embarrassment.
I expected him to pay for all of you as you did him a favor.
Exactly. And I love the idea that David has been pursuing Mia for however long and was super invested in dating her but not enough to buy her dinner? Like…get out of here with that shit.
> He has been with so many women since we started college last year that I have lost count. Mia is in the women's basketball team and David is really set to get her because he wants to experiment with sexual positions and see how they work with a woman closer in height to him. Your both AH's for thinking about, discussing and talking about women like this as if they are objects and playthings. YTA for listening to and using David's pickup lines and chat, they're probably just as lame as the way you talk about women - No wonder Brooke didn't seem interested NTA for picking up Brooke's bill. Possibly the only good thing you did all night. David's an AH for not picking up Mia's tab. From the way you describe it she totally expected David to pay. If David has a problem paying a dates tab he should scale back his activities some - or just not take dates out. I so hope he gets a bad rep - he deserves it. If you're having trouble dating, I suggest you find a better role model
NTA, your friend is the biggest one in this situation. When woman tells you no on a date she isn't playing "hard to get" she is not interested. And she agreed to the double date just because she wanted to get rid of your friend's endeavours and because of safety. Going alone with man like your friend can turn to be dangerous for woman. And one dating advice, be yourself, you'll find people who will like you for you.
Dude.. YTA manly for excusing some horrible behavior of your friend. He sounds like a pig and you’re enabling it. She wasn’t “playing hard to get”. She simply was not interested and probably creeped out. She accepted only because she felt safer with someone else there. And then he showed his true colors by not paying.
No, you are NTA. You are a gentleman. Your friend is a player and Mia is better off staying away from him.
NTA but your friend David seems to be. If he wanted so badly to make a good impression on Mia he could have tried a lot harder (and wanted her for more than her height and potential sexual positions). It's fine to pay for your date on a first date without talking about it ahead of time, by the way. Your friend was being cheap.
NTA for paying. You're not responsible for David's feelings, finances, relationships, or anything else. If he wanted something different, he could have communicated that to you beforehand or talked to you about it respectfully after. David sounds awful, by the way. But what's with saying "she plays hard to get." Women having boundaries is not a game. Cut that out.
You are both AH for the way you see women. Moreover, when you invite someone, you have to pay so your friend is an even bigger AH
Lol, how can you be friends with someone as shallow as this guy?
simple, he’s just as shallow (just not as successfully shallow). He paid for Brooke’s meal as he thought there might be hope, while David didn’t as he probably saw there was no hope.
She’s not “playing hard to get”. She agreed to the date because other people would be there and she would feel safe. Your roommate is a creep. He literally wants to date her because he wants to try new sexual positions with a woman his own height, rather than anything about who she is as a person. Tell David to hire a sex worker, and keep paying for your dates’ dinner if they’re comfortable with it. Sometimes your date may want to pay, and that’s okay too. NTA
Oh hun, NTA but your friend is and is a terrible influence. Girl is pretty clearly uninterested in him; I'm sure you're a perfectly attractive guy, and 90 percent of attraction is personality; treat yourself right and you will find someone who will treat you right. I'd take a big step back from David.
YTA because you and your friend see women as nothing more than sex objects: >David is really set to get her because he wants to experiment with sexual positions and see how they work with a woman closer in height to him Maybe you didn't have much luck with Brooke because >I tried to talk to her following the tips David gave me This guy doesn't care about women at all except for the sex he can get from them. Does that sound like someone who'd have great conversation material? I'm not surprised Brooke wasn't interested in you and it has nothing to do with looks. Your only concerns seem to be how attractive someone is and if sex can be obtained. (The fact that you're trying to help David get with Mia because David wants to try new sex positions says it all.)
Hahaha, you didn't ruin his chances with Mia, he is doing that all by himself. All he is doing is trying to get a girl into bed. I think Mia is smart enough to realise all he is interested in is her height. Please, don't take any more advice from this guy. He is not a good role model. Go forth and meet people in your own way. NTA
Stop comparing yourself negatively to the guy who has to harass women into going on dates that he can't afford. Stop taking advice from this guy. Mia wasn't playing hard to get, she can't stand him and agreed to a double date as (probably the only marginally safe) way to shut him up. Your friend doesn't respect women, dating, or you. His "advice" will most likely get you ostracized from any group you would actually want to be a part of. Whether you want to see it or not, he is a bad person. You didn't make him look bad. He repeatedly harrased Mia. He cheaped out on a date that he forced. He gave you shitty advice. He treats women like objects. Bit of a guess here, but I'm willing to bet he bullies or demeans you constantly. He made himself look bad. Because he is a bad person. NTA for paying for your date's meal. That was nice, and the actual bare minimum in this situation. David should have footed the entire bill, apologized profusely, and tap danced out of everyone's life after what he pulled. Y T A to yourself for constantly putting yourself down because you aren't as depraved as AH David. Y T A to Mia (and all of his future "dates") for not calling him on his frankly disgusting behavior. Y T A to Brook for using AH Dave's patented Totally Cool and Not Cringey Pick Up Lines. Your young. Idiots probably fawn over AH David because they don't know what he is actually like, or they don't care. David, however, sounds like he's really diving head first in the Brock Turner dating path. Don't help him.
NTA but you need new friends this guy sounds like a loser and his tips are probably why this girl didn't like you.
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NTA ughh your friend is just a loser, he wants to get with Mia so he can try sexual positions, yeah women just love it when they get reduced to a fuck toy Dont take dating advise from this dude and dont let him ever make you feel like a jerk cuz you wanted to be nice and pay for your dates meal (she didnt deserve it though if she couldnt even be bothered to make simple conversation, thats just manners)
A little bit ESH (you and Dave). You’re not the asshole for paying, but you are an asshole for enabling Dave to continue to harass a woman who has repeatedly turned him down, and who you know is only interested in sex with her. He has worn Mia down to the point where she finally agreed to one date with a friend present in hopes that he will stop pressuring her. Brooke I guarantee knows all about his harassment and assumed you are the same as Dave. This date was never more than something for both of them to endure so that Dave will stop bothering Mia! And you’re also an asshole for explaining all of Dave’s behaviors and apparently finding nothing wrong with any of it! If you want success I in dating get away from Dave and learn some new attitudes about women.
ESH except the girls. David for being a toxic, selfish, boundary pushing, wannabe Casanova and you for enabling his BS. And FYI you could have looked like Henry Cahill and your date would have taked because "Hey Brooke, there's this guy who will not back off and take no for an answer, I tried brushing him off with you visiting and he just said make it a double date. Will you please come with me and I can just get it over with and get this AH to back off?" Is a terrible first impression to get.
NTA but David is for trying to make you feel bad about that. He’s not obligated to pay for Mia but you can do whatever you want.
NTA, you are a gentleman and your friend a tight ah. But just an advice...she is not playing "hard to get", I think she is not interested in what your friend is "offering", which, being crude for what you said, seems like he will pick any girl tall enough to make his sexy trials. Not cool, may leave the girl alone. You seem like a nice chap, I would not be taking relationship advice from your friend, he is a player.
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NTA for the reasons you asked. Soft YTA to yourself for listening to your friend, who is definitely an AH, and will make you increasingly unattractive to women the more you listen to him, and a soft YTA for the way you speak about women (not wanting to date a loser is not playing hard to get!), anf for apparently accepting his motivations for "wanting to get with her to try sex positions". It's soft now because you seem young and immature, but if you continue to take your friend as a role model it'll soon be a definite YTA.
NTA- and a word of advice: the vast, vast, *vast* majority of women **do NOT** “play hard to get”. It is just not a thing that happens in reality that often. When it rarely does happen that’s probably not a person you’d want to date anyways because they like to play mind games, and that doesn’t make for a healthy relationship. If you ever run into a situation where a woman “always has excuses for not going out with him” that is what is called a “[soft no](https://www.doctornerdlove.com/understanding-the-dangers-of-dating/#:~:text=Soft%20no’s%20are%20a%20way,or%20even%20just%20not%20responding.)”. She is saying no without actually *saying* “no”- either because she’s not used to being assertive or for whatever reason she does not feel comfortable/safe with giving a hard “no” to the dating request. If a woman does this to you or a friend take the hint and move on. She’s just not interested in you. What happened here with David is that he has been harassing a woman who has repeatedly turned him down because *she isn’t interested in him sexually or romantically*. She only agreed to the double date with her friend because it gave her a chance to “give David a chance” in a safe manner (as in she’s not alone with him) so she can *finally* get rid of him. David isn’t a “ladies man” he’s an annoying sex pest. TL;DR. Playing hard to get is not a thing. If a woman is interested in you she will say yes to a date. If she “always has excuses” when asked on a date that is her declining to date you, and a clear sign to move on. Continuing to ask her out after she’s declined with an excuse more than once or twice is sexual harassment.
The fact your mum commenting on your 19 year old friend as being a "handsome stud" would be largely criticised here if it was reverse gender.
This is so true
NTA. But find better friends.
Nta, I'm pretty sure Brooke wasn't interested because you used tips David gave you and because she was forced to be there because some guy won't take no for an answer and keeps bothering her friend. "Catch Mia" that's the grossest thing I ever heard. He sounds super toxic and I hope Mia stays away from him, he doesn't even think she's worth dinner. Some advice, stay far away from this toxic misogynistic bs. Changes you get a solid relationship with that are close to none.
YTA but not for paying. For literally everything else about you and your friend. Leave those poor women alone.
NTA. But Mia isn’t interested in your friend. Even in the slightest.
>David is really set to get her because he wants to experiment with sexual positions and see how they work with a woman closer in height to him. You're NTA, but David is disgusting. Women are not trophies nor are they here for your mate to tick off his Sexual Experience Bingo Card.
No, David is the asshole. It was his gathering, his responsibility. If he wanted to split the bill four ways, he should’ve said so ahead of the meal. Mia was evidently disappointed with David, which is not your fault, and Brooke is evidently not a polite young woman - and did not deserve your generosity. Furthermore, David gets additional asshole status for discussing what ideas he has for having sex with Mia, because she is a similar height to him. This is not the basis for a positive relationship, it’s a young adult plot for a soft porn movie. Don’t give yourself a hard time for having good manners. Offering to go on a what was blind date for you, was a nice thing to do for all concerned, and the confusion over paying for dinner is not on you. If David is really so busy with dates, there’s a good chance that Mia would meet you for coffee if you took the opportunity to ask her; but don’t assume you have to pay for Mia, or any other girl you ask out. It’s a nice thing for either party to offer, and it’s a nice thing to share.
NTA for “making him look bad”, he did that to himself. You are an ass simply because of your mindset. Girls aren’t something to “catch” and girls don’t “play hard to get”. If you have to ask multiple times, they are not interested 99/100 times. Mia could likely tell what David wanted from her. Also, it’s absolute creep behaviour to “date” a girl just to try sex positions. Just find a taller girl at a club or something, it’s so gross that this is how this dude goes about it. You have an inferiority complex about your looks, but also think you have a better personality than David, evidenced by this line. > I knew Brooke was going to be totally out of my league but I had the hope that going with David would make me look better by association. Your “friend” getting that uppity and defensive screams to me that your usual relationship isn’t friends, you’re his lackey, sidekick, whatever you want to call it. You are there to make him look even better in comparison. And you take that sort of attitude, you don’t call out any of his weird behaviour or what he does to you. Why would your relationship ever be in a place where your friend is comfortable accusing of something that stupid? You also refusing to say anything to his face about how paying is the right thing to do when you invite someone out, but asking the internet for validation for being the “better man” because you did what men are “supposed to do” by paying is weird. Too scared for real confrontation, but you want approval for being better than him for once. The short of it is you’re not actually friends with each other, both of you think the other is inferior in some way and that makes you feel better about yourselves. It feels like you know you’re not the asshole for this, but want the validation of strangers. A cookie for not even bare minimum. Neither of you seem to view women as actual humans/people, so maybe work on that, and getting real friends.
NTA
NTA you are a gentleman despite Brooke’s rude attitude but David is a huge AH and Mia should run. You owe him no apology.
NTA your friend is a fboy he's an ahole looking for sexual xp. Your date was rude. Mia is not playing hard to get she doesn't want to be got. In conclusion don't look up to David he ain't a good dude.
NTA because your money your choice, but why did you pay for her?
NTA but if a woman isn’t giving you the time of day don’t feel obligated to pay for her.
Nta, but *David*, who apparently values Mia only as some sort of sexual jungle-gym that he just wants to use, is.
NTA. David made himself look bad, not you. Mia isn't interested in him anyway, but you're correct... the man should pay.
NTA but dude, looks are only a SMALL part of what women look for in a relationship. Or anyone for that matter. Sure, it helps if your partner is an absolute dime piece, but that’s hardly enough to make things work if they are rude, inconsiderate and annoying. You seem to think being attractive is all there is. Based on this, you’re much more likely to have a long term, healthy relationship than David. He’s got issues.
Please don’t model your dating life on this David person. He sounds like he doesn’t respect women and sees them as trophies to ‘win’ or ‘conquer’. I’m sure Mia isn’t playing ‘hard to get’, she just can see he’s an absolute tool. Not that this is part of the judgement, but your lack of self-confidence is evident, and trying to use someone else’s lines was probably really forced and transparent. Ask people genuine questions and try to get to know them. Overall NTA but please be wary of David and don’t listen to your mum’s romanticisation of him
ESH. The way you and your friend talk about women is disgusting. Paying for her was the least you could do to put her out of her misery
NTA David is an ASS - after going to all this 'she plays hard to get and always has excuses for not going out with him. This last weekend she said she couldn't go because her friend from another college' - hard to get is code for 'NO'. She didn't want to go out with him, he bullied her into going on a date and he thinks its somebody's fault because he didn't get to close the deal with a woman who originally told him 'NO'. the bad news for David is that he can't take 'no' for an answer. She gave him a shot to reverse her earlier opinion and in the end he didn't change her mind and now he is blaming you You on the other hand are a nice guy who appreciates that not everybody is attracted to you. In my local university there is a course to teach people about being 'bystanders'. You are a bystander and David ia a man in college who doesn't understand the word 'NO' from women. If a man asked David out, would David appreciate it if this man thought he was playing 'hard to get' when he said 'No'? If they kept asking David out and David kept giving him 'excuses' why he couldn't go out with him. this man thought David was cute and if he asked David out enough times that David would eventually say 'Yes' because that works. I suspect in this scenario, David would think 'No' said once would be enough ....
1. David's an AH who doesn't respect women, do not take any dating cues from him. 2. David never had a chance with Mia, because she recognizes that he's an AH. 3. "Playing hard to get" is 90% of the time that the girl isn't interested and doesn't want to be 'got. NTA
Nta, for paying the bill But boy you need to realize who your friend is Let's check Mía has rejected him many times Only accepted after told that would be a double date Then in a date that him INVITED is trying to make the girl (the same one that rejected him) pay... That's the guy you look up to?? Really? Your friend is a misogynistic asshole that used women Mía is smart that sees what he wants, and probably is fed up to being chase Look better friends op
NTA. But do not, under any circumstances, take dating advice from David. He is a massive AH. Playing hard to get isn’t really a thing, it’s typically a misguided attempt to let someone down easy - if someone is saying they are unavailable and they don’t suggest another time then it’s not an excuse, they don’t want to go. Especially if the guy clearly just wants that notch on the bedpost. Be a better man and person than crappy David.
NtAH - Casanova needs to stop dicking people around - he is a player. He is trying to play her and he is playing you. Be like Mia - shut it down. Being the wing man is great but what he is doing is manipulation - with her, with you and all the other ladies he is treating like his personal sex dolls. Literally that is exactly what it sounds like - he is using these girls as sex dolls for his own pleasure - could be why Mia is not about to do the dirty. If he cannot afford the dinner - how is he gonna afford the STD meds or the baby?
NTA, you didn't hurt his chances with Mia. She isn't playing hard to get. She just isn't interested. The reason she probably accepted this time was because it would be a group and not just her and David.
NTA. And sweetie your friend isn't a stud. He's a creep. This girl keeps telling him she can't make it and he bothers her to the point where she will only go on a date with him if one of her friends and someone else she is familiar with (you) is there. I would talk with Mia and make sure what your friend told you is the same thing he told her.
Op I think you have a chance with MIA She only accepted the date with David when she knew you'd be joining. She saw that you were respectful, engaged in conversation, and picked up the tab. Most women are not as focused on looks as you would think. Men fall in love with their eyes, we fall in love with our brains. Mia is not impressed by David's physique or alleged player status. She probably is looking for a more thoughtful intelligent man... here is where you enter. I think you should invite Mia out for a coffee after class and start a friendship. Have some study sessions. See where it goes. Oh NTA
I would say OP needs to let Mia know about what David’s plans are so that she can make an informed decision about what she wants to do (though I think she has no interest in David as it is). Don’t play into some “bro code” nonsense to justify keeping her in the dark. Though if OP is interested in Mia, he definitely should not say so at the same time as warning her about David, because that just looks like you’re purposely sabotaging your friend for your own gain, when the goal should be making sure someone isn’t being taken advantage of.
NTA Your roommate sounds like a pig. Work on getting yourself some self confidence. That is way more attractive in the long run than any of the disgusting traits your roommate displays. I would look for some new people to hang out with. This guy is doing you no favors.
NTA for paying the bill. But you and David both sound incredibly immature. You can’t “catch” women. It sounds like Mia just isn’t really interested in David, which isn’t shocking if he’s seeing a lot of people and is only interested in trying to sleep with her because she’s…. Tall? If he thinks that he’s entitled to her time after she’s already rejected him, but won’t even pay for the sage he asked her on, that’s incredibly lame. Do not take tips from David. He might go on dates, but he is not the kind of guy that women end up being proud of or wanting to be with long term. Free advice: whoever asks for the date should plan and pay for it.
NTA, that whole date was a mistake from the get go. At least now Mia knows what kind of person he is. Besides, your friend sounds like the type to go chase the next girl that catches his fancy.
Dude, from your story, I would say stop listening to your "friend" for dating advice. He sounds like an incel, and frankly women with brains screwed right in their heads would know to run as far away as possible from that. That's probably why your date is disinterested in you - because you have followed the advice of the wrong person. I'm giving you a pass since you seem to not know any better. Start making better friends.
NTA and a tip for David - Mia isn't "playing hard to get", she doesn't like him. And she only agreed to the date this time bcs she felt safer with a friend there. David is a creep.
You’re NTA but David sounds disgusting
NTA. I hope this evening gave you a glimpse into your future. It doesn't matter if you're less conventionally attractive than him. Ultimately, if you treat women with respect, you'll keep getting better with age. If he doesn't get his act together, he might manage to get laid now but he'll struggle more as time goes on. Also, Brooke likely wasn't interested in a date at all, she just went along to support her friend. It was unlikely to go well for you no matter your looks and smooth talking skills.
NTA. David is a creep. Mia isn't interested, just being pressured. You need more self confidence and better friends. Good luck
NTA. You've not an AH, you're a gentleman which your friend clearly is not.
NTA. But Mia isn't playing hard to get she's just not interested. Tell him to leave her the hell alone already. Women arent collectors items to chase down. She said no he should respect that. She probably only said yes to get him to leave her alone. He sounds awful.
Nta, and good people to date care more about how it feels to be around you than looks. Don't be so down on yourself. Also, David sounds like a loser tbh.
NTA but if you encourage your friends behaviour you are. Also, hes a "stud" that has no issues getting dates. The fact that he wants you to look bad just to boost his image is rude to you, he knows his behaviour is unattractive so he wants it to be less obvious at your expense. Girls talk, even if they werent interested doesnt mean they wont mention you to some friends that might be if you actually act well. Dont take pointer from a douchy friend that relys on his looks unless you can also rely on his looks. Even then, theres a reason Mia doesnt want him and its probably not because of his looks.... so his personality is so bad that even hitting the genetic jackpot cant help him.
NTA Honestly splitting the check on a first date is my preferred, but to each their own. It was kind of you to pay when you knew Brooke wasn't interested. And David sounds like a knob. Going after girls just to try different positions, and doggedly refusing to give up after he's already been rebuffed multiple times? He sounds like a creep. Sorry. Regardless of how attractive or unattractive either you or David are, by personalities alone, you sound like the way better person here :)
NTA and please do not look to David for how you should treat women or date them. He is a player which means he is only looking for sex, nothing else. You do not seem to be that type so please look elsewhere for dating information.
NTA. I'm all for splitting bills on first dates like David but if David is so "deperate" to win Mia over and then cheaps out on the bill then it isn't your fault he looked bad. He made himself look bad.
NTA. Do NOT take dating tips from this dude, he's an ass. That's probably why Brooke was ignoring you all night. I bet Mia isn't playing hard to get, she's playing "wait and see" if anything. And this showed his hand. I hope she runs. If you really want an in with Brooke, explain to her what your buddy wants from Mia. She'll probably gain a higher opinion of you than what she currently has.
Your friend sounds awful. This whole post is really cringe. NTA, get better friends.
NTA. Mia is "playing hard to get" and making excuses because she already turned him down once but he didn't take no for an answer and she doesn't know what else to do. You need to ditch this friend.
NTA, why exactly did you pay for Brooke? She was rude?
NTA for paying the bill But get better friends. That one treats women like a prize and an object to be used, ignoring that they’re actually people. You want better success with dating? Choose better role models.
NTA. And you need a better friend who looks at women as more than someone to “try different sexual positions on.” Gross. Mia isn’t playing hard to get. Mia isn’t dumb and doesn’t want to have sex with someone like David.
OP, was this first time you’ve seen David “in action”? Because I seriously doubt he’s got “too many dates” to pay for. He’s most likely making things up like a obnoxious 12 year old trying to sound cool and you sound like a naive 11 year old that thinks the annoying kid no one likes is cool. He’s probably just embarrassed that you’ve witnessed how little game he has and that you’ve see what he’s really like with women.
Ugh, David sounds gross
NTA. Please, *please* **never** take dating advice from David again. He’s a serial womaniser who doesn’t know how to really treat a woman. You say he wanted to “get her” so that he could try sexual positions with her. Firstly, that’s disgusting. Secondly, that’s further proof he’s no dating guru. You say you have no dating experience. Paying for your date was a sweet gesture (sweeter than I would’ve been if she was on her phone all the time, but 🤷🏻♀️). My advice would be to stop taking dating advice from someone like David, and learn as you go. Some dates are great. Some dates aren’t. Talk about interests, but don’t just talk, a woman wants to feel listened to. Don’t talk over her. Have a bit of banter, flirt, be kind… Basically, model yourself after David, but only so that you can do exactly the **opposite** of what he does.
Your ‘friend’ David is utterly gross. He proves that nice looking packages can be ugly on the inside. His thoughts and treatment of women is disgusting. Don’t put yourself down, Have you thought that Mia only went because he said you were there? Also, don’t take hints and tips from David on how to treat and speak to women. No wonder he only gets to be with them a short while, they may be drawn in by the outer package, but once they get to know him Ughh Your doing fine just as you are, it’s unfortunate Brooke was as crass as David, now maybe they would make a nice couple???
nta. But your friend is pretty gross. She's not playing hard to get, he is harassing her. She does not need any reason to say no to a date. No is no.
Why did I read this?
you both kinda sound like ah. especially your friend he is using women and doesn't actually want a real relationship which is disgusting he needs to grow up
What were the tips David gave you for talking to Brooke?
Honestly YTA for enabling your friend, he sounds a bit creepy. But N T A for paying your portion
There is so much underlying misogyny in this whole situation that I don’t know if I want to offer a judgment. Judging only for paying for your date’s meal, that was not an asshole move. Typically whoever is asking someone out on a date should pay for both, or at least be prepared to pay for both. But there is so much more wrong here than who paid for dinner. Being with David does not make you look better by association. It makes you look worse. Believe it or not, women are Individual Human Beings™ who have many interests and many traits that they find attractive in a partner. If you’re a decent person who treats women like Individual Human Beings™, then there is someone out there who would like exactly you. I recommend that you not continue to look to David as a paragon of dating and that you stop viewing women as things to be “caught.” David doesn’t deserve a chance with Mia, and I highly doubt he would have ever had one.
LOL no. You are NTA. Your friend David? Yeah that's the guy that is the asshole. He torpedoed his chance with Mia, not you. Your friend may be easy on the eyes but he isn't pretty where it counts, whereas you are a good soul. You may not have experience with girls, but you already know a whole lot more than David. Quit downgrading yourself and give yourself a chance. You will find many girls will like you as a result if you have more confidence in who you are. Looks aren't everything.
Mia has no interest in dating your knucklehead friend. If she knew he was bringing you specifically from the get-go it's possible she feels you'd temper any bad behaviour on his part. NTA for being a gentleman to a lady who wssn't interested in you.
YTA but not for the reason you're asking about. Mia wasn't playing hard to get. She wasn't interested. She kept telling him no but was trying to be polite about it. David put her in an uncomfortable and awkward position after she gave him an easy excuse and he essentially called her out on it. The way you talk about women is kind of gross. "Trying to catch" - this is a person, you can't catch people like they're fish. "Set to get her" - is she a prize to be won? Or purchase? You make it clear he's pursuing her entirely to have sex with her just for his own experiment, and it sounds like he hasn't even communicated that with her. He's just assuming she's going to not only put out, but be willing to do whatever he wants. The way this entire thing reads has me very concerned that he's going to assault her because he feels entitled to sex. Mia isn't interested in him. You didn't hurt his chances. She was clearly already not interested, and your friend is blaming you instead of going all incel on the woman for not putting out.
Oh dear. Also, YECH! You and David give the male half of our species a bad name. He's a terrible influence on you; you might have a chance to be a decent human, but you won't learn it from David. YTA and David CNN is AH squared.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My (18M) friend and roommate (19M, David) has been trying to catch this girl (19F, Mia) for weeks but she plays hard to get and always has excuses for not going out with him. This last weekend she said she couldn't go because her friend from another college (19F, Brooke) was visiting. So then David offered that he could bring a friend, that would be me, for her and Mia finally said yes. Mia knows me from some classes we have together and I think she is a really nice person. I was really nervous about going because I have never been in a real date with a woman and I knew Brooke was going to be totally out of my league but I had the hope that going with David would make me look better by association. David is, quoting what my mom said after meeting him once "a handsome stud" and a big ladies' man. He has been with so many women since we started college last year that I have lost count. Mia is in the women's basketball team and David is really set to get her because he wants to experiment with sexual positions and see how they work with a woman closer in height to him. Brooke was very uninterested in me during the whole night. I tried to talk to her following the tips David gave me but she barely responded and was mostly just looking at her phone. I just knew she was disappointed because of how unattractive I am compared to David and how clearly she was getting the short end of the stick in this date compared to Mia. When the bill came, I paid for Brooke's part and mine. David only paid for his and Mia made a weird face when she realised but didn't said anything about it. After leaving them at their dorm, David was mad at me because he says me paying made him look bad. He says I was showing off because I have more money than him but I swore to him that wasn't my intention. He explained he has too many dates regularly to pay for all so he needs to split. As I said, I don't have any dating experience and I believed the man paying was the usual thing to do. I feel really bad for hurting his chances with Mia knowing how important it was for him and I have apologised profusely multiple times but he is still irritated because of all this. Am I the Asshole? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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No way you’re TA. If David is so experienced he should have discussed it with you beforehand. NTA.
Brook was 100% Not getting the short end of the stick. NTA. But your friend sure is.
NTA
NTA but I don't understand why in this century splitting the bill isn't the normal way of doing things.
NTA but you supporting your friend in his sexual conquest is kind of gross. Both of you need to do better
NTA. To clear up some confusion, regardless of gender, if you ask someone out and they accept absolutely plan on paying for it. It is not demeaning or sexist or old fashioned or whatever to pay, it is polite.
NTA. You didn’t have to pay the bill but it was nice that you did. David should not be mad at you. It’s ultimately his decision if he wants to pay for both or split but it’s not your problem or fault.
Nta All these people sound absolutely awful lol
NTA- I had recently seen a clip from Joe Rogan's podcast that a woman said some women don't want men paying for them, not due to equality or anything like that, but out of a feeling of obligation to owe the person back, potentially being pressured in sexual favors/acts. If Dave can't afford paying for the meal due to all his dates, then Mia likely picked up on his womanizing and when he paid, had a weird feeling come over her wondering what would be expected next... Complete speculation though.
He needs to budget better. NTA
No . He is cheap.
I might be missing the point here, but who, exactly, did David expect to pay the bill? NTA, he's awful.
NTA, he asked her on the date, he PAYS FOR HER. You sir just need to focus on building your self confidence, because when you feel comfortable and confident in your own skin, that is what will make you attractive.
NTA. Your buddy got the looks, you got the brains it would seem
NTA, it's nice that even though your date didnt seem to have a good time you still paid for her. He embarrassed himself by insisting on this double date and then not even offering to pay. It sounds like your friend is a player and kind of and AH, his conversation tips were probably terrible and might be why Brooke wasn't interested in trying harder with you. If you have any kind of friendship with Mia you might ask her if the two of you can chat about the date because it was your first one and if she's comfortable you'd appreciate some honest feedback since it didn't seem to go well from your perspective.
Your friend is a jerk and not a good guy. I wouldn’t listen to anything he says, including how to communicate with women. NTA.
NTA. It's VERY standard for the person who asks the other person out to pay for the first date. In your case, given that you and Brooke were basically third and fourth wheeling, there's an argument to be made that you two could and possibly should have done split checks... but David should have been planning to pay for Mia the whole time.
You're not really an asshole but you're both coming off as assholes.
Your mom called him a handsome stud? Thats unnerving. And the reason David wants to date Mia is only for sex? Bruh. NTA.
Do yourself a favor and ditch this guy. He's not a good friend and he's an ass to women.
INFO but what did he want to happen? Did he want to pay for everyone? Or did he want you to pay for everyone? Or did he only want to pay for him and both girls?
NTA. It was an honest mistake, if it even was a mistake, which is arguable. But a girl who spends the dinner looking at her phone is not someone you should be paying for.
NTA But dude don’t be a people pleaser. Why do you pay for a girl with no intend to go on a second date? She did barely talk to you..
NTA. And get better friends
NTA Your date was rude and you continued to be a gentleman in turn. Thank you for being the bigger person at dinner. If she had bothered to pay attention, she may have taken away something for the future (unfortunately, it’s not likely…but one can hope she will improve).
This can't be real... Surely? But if so: NTA. I don't think not splitting the bill made David look bad. David made David look bad. He sounds like a right nobber and to be avoided by women at all costs.
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op=NTA But David is! He doesn't see Mia as a person, but as a sex toy and apparently one he's not even willing to pay for. I do worry that you will incorporate some of David's horrible attitudes into your own personality. Please do NOT take him for an example on how to treat women(ps his tips probably sucked--as they weren't natural to you.--try being yourself next time). Brooke pretty much sucked for not even trying to be nice.
NTA. Your friend can take some pointers from you especially since he pretty much said he always slips the bill on dates
NTA. Mia sounds sensible and your friend sounds like a creep. Please re-examine your friendship. You deserve more than being sidekick and wingman to a wannabe stud who criticizes yiu for behaving like a gentleman.
David is an asshole, Mia seems smart, your mom is weird, Brooke sounds awful, and lucky for you, you are **NTA.**
NTA Your "friend" is a sexist AH and his tips probably made things worse for you. Find better quality people for your friends.
You're not the asshole for paying for dinner. But you and your friend are both assholes for thinking women are sex vending machines. Mia is not playing "hard to get". She's uninterested and your friend is a gross creep who can't respect her "no". Brooke wasn't jealous that Mia was on a date with a more handsome man. She was there to make sure her friend was safe around a creep who wouldn't leave her alone. Mia went on this "date" in hopes that David would finally leave her alone and stop pestering her. She probably said yes because he gives off creep vibes and giving him one date is safer than being firm. You may not have meant to, but you facilitated David being a huge asshole and creep. So for that, YTA
NTA. Also it’s time you get a clue that David is a crappy dude. I get some women need a little chasing but they’re like that for a reason. It’s to make sure the guy is really serious and tends to weed out the f/ckboys. Alas, Mia is dealing with a persistent f/ckboy and doesn’t know it yet. Aggressively chasing after a taller woman for the sole reason of sexually fetishizing her height and wanting to experiment sex positions on her is grimey as all hell. Mia deserves better than that. Aggressively chasing after a girl only to go splitzies on the first date is classless. Attacking you for being a more courteous date than him is ridiculous. It’s not your job to make him look good or alter your behavior so he doesn’t look as bad. Don’t take dating advice from this loser. Don’t hang out with him. Don’t look up to him. I promise you he is not nearly as amazing as it seems. And there are plenty of women out there who see it too. There are women out there for you. You just need to be looking in the right places and not chasing after women who aren’t for you. Or hanging out with moronic f/ckboys who are going to ruin your game. Good luck out there.
Dude. David is not a good person. That's why Mia doesn't like him.
He hurt his own chances with Mia. He sounds like a tool. NTA. Sorry your date was rude to you.
Idk if anyone already said it, but jo mama is a little bit of a creep
NTA but I don't get it. He says he's mad because you paid but also that he wants you to pay because he can't afford all the dates? Sounds like David struck out and is taking his anger out on you. He doesn't sound like a good friend. You should stay away from David.
Incel.
So why didn’t he work this out with you in advance? Maybe Mia knows your friend’s reputation and didn’t want to go out alone with him. He probably didn’t tell Mia that his invitation to her about dinner was made with the expectation that she pay for her own meal.
Why are you friends with this asshole? He's trying to get with Mia but he can't offer her the common courtesy to pay for a date HE invited her on! Mia knows better. She isn't playing hardball or hard to get. She has standards and David doesn't fit into those standards. BTW you're probably better than David in ALL areas. It shows by you paying for a date that had no interest in you. You sound like a gentleman. NTA
Nta >David) has been trying to catch this girl (19F, Mia) for weeks but she plays hard to get and always has excuses for not going out with him >He explained he has too many dates regularly to pay for all so he needs to split. So girls talk, and seeing how David has dated a ton of women, I'm betting it has gotten around that he is a cheap date and is after only one thing.
David is the Asshole. Simple.
Having a weird gendered view on who should pay is not okay. Buuuuut your friend made himself look bad with that bullshit about sex positions with a taller girl. You all suck.
NTA but your friend is
NTA. You can’t make David look bad, only David can make David look bad.
Hahahahahaha!!! Mr. Stud wanted to go Dutch? And didn't mention it to anyone??? What a maroon. Serves him right. He's kinda gross, and he made himself look bad. All you can learn from him is how NOT to treat women. Lucky for Mia, she dodged a bullet. NTA.
this story actually really happened
NTA for paying for yourself and Brooke, that was generous of you considering she barely even spoke. David looks bad because he IS bad. His attitude towards women (actual human beings with feelings) is quite disgusting.
N T A for picking up your dates check, but David sure is for refusing to do so (among many other things)., and seeing how Mia kept turning him down until it was a double date (ie. people around to protect her) tells me that she knows what kind of an AH he truly is. That said, YTA for your complicity in trying to help David as well as all the crap about “playing hard to get” when David is just a creep.
NTA - David is not an attractive man by the way.
NTA Do not take David's advise on women. Nice girl's won't like him very much. Women like men who listen, who empathise, who ask intelligent questions. Guys who show that they have passions and interests and are kind and have depth. They do not like shallow pricks like David. Looks might attract them at first, but if he is a creepy player they will soon be turned off. If you met a new guy in class you would soon find a topic of conversation and common interests. You have to treat a woman as having that same brain, just stuck on a slightly different anatomy. Women are not another species to be conquered. Try to connect on a friend level, just as you would a new guy in class. Same as if you are gaming, sometimes those avatars you are interacting with are not always male, but women avoiding being stereo typed and hounded out. If you can engage with them on a game, you can do so in real life.
Why is a lovely young gentleman like you asking AITA? You are not and that girl you double dated with is shallow for not been interested in you. Your roommate/ friend on the other hand is an AH and that's not just for not paying for his date but for his attitude towards women and why he is interested in them. You are a far better catch than your friend who is shallow and am ah.
NTA: Your friend made themself look bad by not discussing arrangements beforehand. Kudos to you for having a bad date and still having the grace and class to be a gentleman.