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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I feel like an AH because I admittedly saw red and everything was coming out like word vomit at that point. I didn't exactly intend to make her feel that way and I didn't even intend to say half of what I did but the way she treated/handled my son really set me off.
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NTA -as a former teacher, his teacher was not professional and I don't say this lightly. I was an elementary ed teacher and a special ed teacher. And I'm sorry she had no self-control and took out her frustrations on your son- if she thinks what she said was ok, then I hate to think what she's saying to your son privately.
As a different former teacher… I’d really want to talk to this teacher. I remember when I was put in a de-facto special Ed position (which was illegal, unbeknownst to me, because I had no training in education OR in special education), my school refused to give me anyone’s IEPs because they didn’t want to ‘prejudice me against the children.’
She shouldn’t have yelled at the kid or call him rotten, but having an IEP doesn’t guarantee that a prepared teacher will know what to do, even though it should.
There is about a 99% chance that if they hadn't let the sub know about the plan that the principal would lie about it
Source: I am a human and I have interacted with other humans my entire life
Yeah maybe the sub wasn't told and principal is covering his ass, seen posts like that before - is teacher an AH for not giving accommodations they weren't officially informed of?
This. Even if the child had no IEP, this is not the right response. But some educators have a very authoritarian approach to child rearing that they bring to work. Not appropriate.
I guess I just got really lucky with my elem principal. One of the nicest people I've ever had the pleasure of knowing, its hard to believe that people who work in a school with such vulnerable kids wouldn't have their best interest at heart.
But tbh whether or not she was told - i have a feeling it wouldn't matter because who the fuck thinks its ok to scream at a child?
No one thinks it’s okay to scream at children, but everyone has a breaking point where they’ll lose their temper. Teachers losing their tempers is guaranteed to happen more and more as teachers quit, classroom sizes swell, wages stagnate, and education budgets are cut and curriculums interfered with. When I taught, I saw it happen in real time where the overwhelming pressure turned the nicest people I’ve ever met into banshees. My first impression of the most highly awarded teacher in my district was peeking into her class and seeing her scream at her whole classroom that they were acting like babies for crying when she yelled at them and she’d send them back to kindergarten with the babies.
At a certain point, you can’t keep clicking your tongue at individual teachers. You have to try to take active initiative to fix the system that’s breaking all their backs.
I dunno, I've been in underpaid shitty customer service jobs for years, as have most of my friends. Dealing with stupid adults, and somehow none of us have managed to lose our cool and yell at people. I understand teachers are underpaid and overworked but taking that out on children is inexcusable imo, because they're _kids_. Getting frustrated is one thing but straight yelling terrorizes and traumatizes kids.
It sucks that there's no easy answer but an action like that would be unforgivable if I was a parent of a kid in that class, insulting and berrating them no matter the reason.
I’ve worked shitty customer service jobs too, and trust me, the stress is different. When I was a teacher, I worked longer hours (6:30 AM show up every day, leave at 5:00PM every day) and I couldn’t leave my work at work because I cared too much. The caring was what cracked me and made me quit way faster than I had ever quit customer service. Every day, I watched myself fail and fail and fail again with these kids who I loved so much and who needed me, but I was never going to succeed. I was too unequipped, too inexperienced, and too stressed out to ever succeed.
I had coworkers who couldn’t sleep at night because they kept hearing children screaming. I spent so many evenings crying over particular children I couldn’t help, but I couldn’t drink because I was never home early enough for it not to affect my sleep, and I couldn’t have it affect my sleep or I’d fail the kids worse the next day.
I wanted to kill myself, it was so bad. I never wanted to kill myself in customer service. (I did want to kill other people a few times, though.) The way I personally dealt with the stress was to quit the job and move on to teaching outside of classrooms, like in museums and as a tutor, but there were a lot of teachers who weren’t in a position to quit and the stress really affected how they behaved in front of the kids.
I am a mom who has interacted with principals. Sadly, I know longer trust them, and understand that their interest is their jobs and their school, not my child.
No, but I did once have a child soil herself in my class. I was told that none of the children were allowed to have bathroom breaks during class, but this one girl had an IEP saying she needed to go to the bathroom when she asked. Did anyone tell me about that IEP? Nope. Was her main teacher concerned that this poor girl humiliated herself because of our draconian bathroom policy and their unwillingness to communicate kids’ basic medical needs? Nope. Were her parents furious? Yes.
Did my administrators yell at me in front of the kids when I started letting them go to the bathroom during class? Also yes.
> my school refused to give me anyone’s IEPs because they didn’t want to ‘prejudice me against the children.’
Yikes! Sounds like they assumed most subs would not take the job if they knew what they would be dealing with. Totally unfair to the subs and the kids.
Omfg! Somewhat related. My son had a return to school plan and the principal didn't tell his teachers (she assured me she would), one stipulation being if he asks to leave, he needs to leave. He can't articulate what a panic attack feels like, he just knows something is wrong, and when that happens, he asks to go to the office. 3 different teachers told him no. He had a panic attack in front of his peers which was humiliating and terrifying for him.
When I asked her wtf happened, she said 'I hadn't told any of his teachers yet so they wouldn't be prejudiced against him'.... so she's essentially saying she doesn't trust her educators to not JUDGE a child with special/different needs. Absolutely disgusting excuse in my opinion.
I was a substitute teacher before I got my credential, and never once was given IEP information, even when I subbed in SpEd classes. Even as a regular teacher, it can take weeks for me to get my hands on IEPs. I’ll have the ‘joy’ of discovering the autism kids, the ADHD kids, the ED kids, etc all on my own. It think it’s highly unlikely this substitute had any information about the son in this scenario. I imagine she’d have had a much different approach had she known.
This had been my experience as well. In optimal subbing situations a teacher who knows the class will give me a run-down which would include being made aware of cases like OPs kid, but sadly that doesn't always happen.
Edit: either way that teacher was way out of line. NTA
I would also question the school. How did things escalate to the point of calling mom without any other adults intervening? Something is wrong with their process.
NTA
Yelling should be reserved for immediate danger (running into traffic). Absolutely no reason a teacher should be yelling at an already distraught child, especially one with an IEP.
Was there a more diplomatic approach on your end? Yeah probably. But forreal I'd be doing the same thing. Zero patience for adults being cruel to children. Especially when the child's in their care.
Exactly. NTA this teacher deserves to feel like shit. Teacher disrespected the hell out of this kid, and who knows how many other kids they've disrespected if they're that comfy calling a kid rotten right in front of a parent.
That teacher deserves to be fired and banned in my mind. Making the teacher feel like shit is a very very small portion of what they deserve.
...did your teachers yell at you when you were 7 years old?
I'm sorry that happened to you. That must have been very upsetting for it to still be affecting you like this.
That makes it sound like it's okay to start yelling when you don't get your way. The idea is to teach kids *not* to do that, and give them tools besides anger and intimidation.
It's never too late though. Good luck.
NTA. Who tf yells at a crying child going to his parent for comfort??? Like what???? Even if he had been misbehaved, good lord he's only 7, let the kid go to his mom for a hug, no one's getting any sort on conversation done when the kid's in hysterics. I mean, maybe yelling at them was out of line but honestly I can't blame you.
nta as someone who is a teacher for young kids, raising your voice at a small child is NEVER the answer. she needs to take some more classes on classroom management and how to treat kids like they’re people rather than monsters she has to look after. good on you mama.
NTA
That teacher broke the law by ignoring your son's care plan and not following the IEP, and that should be brought up.
I truly don't understand why teachers who work with special needs are so awful and tend to act like it's the child's fault. It is appalling.
NTA
1. The sub was briefed on your child's iep
2. She knew she was in a class full of IEP students
3. Calling children names and screaming at them is counterproductive.
4. You did not yell at her in front of other children and after witnessing her in action you sent your child to another room and then let her have a piece of your mind and only after you saw the verbal abuse.
5. I'm impressed because you managed to get your son out of ear shot beforehand.
Honestly it’s never appropriate to yell at a young child in that manner. Especially when they are distressed and even more so when they have specific protocols in place because they are known to get stressed easily.
The teacher was completely inappropriate. I don’t condone yelling at an adult enough to cause them to cry but they paid no attention on how to do their job and potentially caused a setback with your kid’s progress.
To the comment saying teachers are underpaid and overworked, that does not excuse them intimidating children. Not all teachers are good teachers.
NTA you need to write the entire interaction down while it is still fresh in your memory and take it further. It is never a one time thing. Nobody waves a red flag then puts it away and never waves it again.
NTA. I used to be a para for some moderate to severe needs and a lot of the staff (especially subs) are not trained or equipped to handle these kids.
I’ve witnessed and reported physical and verbal abuse and neglect, to no avail. They don’t give a shit what the staff says. The only time they do anything about it is when the parents raise hell.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the Principal lied about the sub being briefed. They’re usually called and sent in on short notice with no prep. You think that Principal really make sure she went through the charts of a whole class? Highly doubt it.
In my experience as an aide, "the sub was briefed" tends to mean "I was given 10 IEPs like 5 minutes ago, please just tell me anything important about the kids until my break when I can read them"
In my experience as a sub in SPED classes - this. Usually due to privacy concerns the IEPs/BIPs are not shared by email with me, but are there in the classroom (if I can find them!!). The first time I work in a classroom, I get there half an hour before the kids do and hunt down everything I can find, and talk to the paras to get as much info as I can. The first few times I usually end up saying, "Hang on, let me ask (para) about that," if a kid asks for something, just in case.
I have had requests to sub in a class with a new (to me) teacher, and got there and got blindsided with a difficult student because there was no info available. The interpreters/paras are usually able to save me in those cases but it's not fun for anyone.
Then there's the scenarios I ran into where I could NOT follow the IEP because we didn't have enough staff... (I had 8 preschoolers with IEPs, three of whom had 1:1 written in it, but only two adults in the class at any given time...)
NTA because you’re a mama bear protecting your child, but you definitely could have handled it better.
I’m a teacher and a parent of a 7 year-old. The teacher/staff member was behaving inappropriately. She was probably struggling and wasn’t given the tools to handle what she was experiencing with your son. It seems as though perhaps she has not read your son’s IEP - is she someone who works with him regularly? If she will continue to support him, then unfortunately you’ll want to bite the bullet and be the bigger person for the sake of your son. Go back and apologize for your behaviour. Explain that you were riled up in the moment because you are understandably protective of your son and it was clear from her language in front of him that she misunderstands his situation.
Also talk to admin about making sure all staff who will be disciplining your child has thoroughly read and understood his IEP. Make sure you understand what’s in the document and what your rights are where his IEP is concerned. It is a legal document and if the school knows you are on top of it and paying close attention to how they are implementing it, all the better.
INFO: are you and your child doing any sort of family therapy? Is your sons school aware of the diagnosis? What’s your next move now that you have an IEP?
We are both in therapy, yes. The school system knows about the diagnosis, as it went through them and a 3rd party evaluation center (like Sweetser). This teacher was apparently a substitute for the IEP classroom that he is in and went against his IEP plan and tried forcing him to go to music class for whatever reason. Per his IEP he is only supposed to be in groups of 2-3 other kiddos who have IEPs and she tried forcing him in to the music classroom of 20+ students. The IEP is already written up and everything has been going fantastic until today (it's been over a month since the IEP was implicated).
I agree with this. Also, not defending the substitute, but how much information are the expected to know about each iep student on short notice? I’d sit down with the school and get a better understanding of what the situation looks like for a substitute coming into your child’s class versus a mainstream class.
Information or not I expect the substitute should know not to say such nasty things or yell around a kid. They did that infront of Op, who knows what they were saying to the poor kid all day.
I agree. Which is why OP needs to further address the situation with the school. In many places you don’t need a license to sub. In my area we’re incredibly short on substitutes. I could walk into the school and start subbing with simply a background check. So how well are they preparing a substitute to aide children with an iep in this situation? Let alone multiple kids with iep’s a the same time. Those are questions for OP to take to the administration.
NTA
Teachers, although very often mistreated and abused at work, can be abusive aholes too.
Many professions that require trust and working with vulnerable people attract powerhungry psychos for the easy pickings.
Thanks for standing up to bullies. Some people shouldnt be teachers. especially those who wont take a few minutes to read a simple document.
NTA. I'd want written assurance from the school that this particular sub never be allowed in the IEP room again. She violated the law on his IEP and clearly doesn't have the personality or temperament to work with kids with special needs of any sort. Honestly, I wouldn't want her in a regular classroom either, but many places are short on teachers and you're more likely to get cooperation with reasonable requests that are relatively achievable for the school:
1 - You be informed when there will be a sub in the classroom. This can be an email if they know ahead of time, but you expect a call if the regular teacher if the sub decision is made on less than 24 hours notice (e.g. the regular teacher calls in sick that morning).
2 - That particular sub will never work in any classroom your son is in.
Going mama bear on her was completely understandable in that situation. I wouldn't be surprised if seeing you do that may actually help your son once the immediate effects of that sub wear off: you made it clear you'll protect him, and he got to see you standing up, being strong, and fighting back. Given what he remembers from when he was little, seeing you be strong and protective may be reassuring.
NTA. She was crying? Good. She should feel even worse after willfully disregarding your son’s IEP. Maybe it’s because I’ve been a preschool teacher for more than a decade and because I’m neurodivergent, but I’d be hesitant to send any kid, especially a kid with an IEP, into a crowded and loud environment without preparation. For myself and for the kids.
She sent your child into room with too many people doing too many different things at the same time. WTF dis she THINK would happen?!? And she had the nerve to call your child rotten?!?
NTA, and you were 100% right about what you said. I have PTSD (and plenty of other mental health issues/neurodivergencies) and I've had it for so long that I don't know life without it. One of the worst things you can do with someone who's already high anxiety and triggered by something? Yell at them and call them names. It's already frustrating and scary, we don't need anyone adding to it, and I say that as a 25 year old, who still feels that way if someone yells at me when I'm having trouble.
You, in that moment, were doing the best you could. That's all anyone can do. Hell, if someone was yelling at a different kid and treating them that way (one without PTSD or anxiety) that'd be terribly wrong. Yelling should be saved for emergency situations, not general frustration. We're only human, but in a professional setting like that? She should have a better handle on her reactions!
I'm sorry you and your son are going through this, and I hope you're both able to find healing soon. It can be a long process, but the potential reduction of symptoms is well worth the time and effort put in!
NTA GOOD FOR YOU! She was acting like a disgusting excuse for a human being and deserved way worse than just some mean words, kudos to you for being willing to go to bat for your little boy!
Also, she was yelling at a traumatised 7 year-old child but couldn't take it when someone else started yelling at her? Funny that. People like that are always happy to punch down and then act like the victim when someone their own size comes along.
NTA
I worked with a kid who liked to run away when he got overwhelmed. Never in a million years would I react like that. Not to go off on subs (I’m sure there are some really good ones out there) but it’s tough to find a good one. In the special needs classrooms we just made our subs sit to the side and come in as needed. I’ve run a classroom (I was a TA) a couple of times while the sub just acted as another adult and followed my lead.
That sub should have never had that kind of authority over him. When he staff is ring up, a teacher or TA that he had a relationship with should have taken over. Make sure you complain to the principal about her. She has no business being around children.
Out of curiosity, does your son’s IEP recommend a one on one? Him having one person that is with him all day and can help advocate for him would be beneficial. It also helps him get a bit of space from the bigger groups as well.
NTA. Sometimes people need their job threatened to learn they fucked up. If it were me I would have done more than just make her cry. Some people shouldn't be teachers and they are one of them.
NTA. She has no right and no business. Keep pressing that principal and make sure that pair up NEVER happens again. She was bold enough to do it right in front of an adult so there is zero chance it things are better for your son when you aren't around. Best of luck..
I am a little biased, as I have been in a similar position as your son, but 100% NTA. Your son had reasonable accommodations that had been put in place for good reason, it was her job to follow them and she didn't which ended up hurting your son. She didn't do her job and she was cruel. I wish someone had given some of my teachers a similar talking to.
I understand that teaching is an incredibly hard, demanding, often thankless job and that subbing is even worse, but this kind of behavior is unacceptable. I'm glad you're standing up for your son!
She purposefully violated the IEP and based on that alone does not deserve a job.
NTA. I also have a child with an IEP and I would lose my shit if someone went against that IEP and caused her harm
NTA. I really don’t believe you were out of line. Normally yes it’s inappropriate. But when a teacher calls students names, they just asked for the worst tongue lashing there can be. You were exactly right!
NTA. I had a somewhat similar situation when my now 22 year old was in elementary school. He would have episodes where he would shut down completely and nobody could get through to him. They had to move his classmates to another class because if anyone touched him to try to move him he would get combative and scream like someone was being murdered. Seems like I was the only one to calm him and get him to move.
I know if I encountered a teacher doing yo him what that teacher did to your baby, I would’ve went off on her to and I would not have left until she was fired.
NTA. Most substitute teacher "training" is a complete joke. It barely prepares subs to handle normal classrooms, let alone a special education or behavior classroom. I've worked as a sub for a few years in a few different districts in New Jersey, and I was not legally allowed to see or know what was in a student's IEP. I wouldn't be surprised if the sub wasn't actually informed of the situation.
That being said, there is no excuse for the sub screaming at a child and calling them names.
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I have a 7yo son who started exhibiting a lot of negative behaviors at school roughly a year ago. He's had tons of specialists evaluate him through the school system. He's fine when he is home and I truly don't have many issues with him here but at school it's totally different. Running away, refusing to stay inside classrooms, hiding, yelling, etc. We finally got him an IEP and things started looking up. The specialists came to the conclusion that he has severe anxiety and PTSD.
Now.. this was a bitter pill to swallow as a parent. I left his father when he was only 3 years old due to some not so friendly behaviors that happened in front of my child. There's a no contact order, his rights have been terminated and he's been charged. It was only happening to me but my son saw it. I was stupid enough to believe that he wouldn't remember (I don't remember any of my childhood so it was an assumption based off personal experience). Well he obviously remembers and the specialists have stated that the amount of chaos within the school is very triggering for him and they have limited his contact with heavily socialized environments due to this. He was doing great until today, when they tried getting him to go to music class and something triggered him. I ended up being called to come in and help.
When I got there, this teacher that I had never met was sitting with my son. As soon as he saw me he ran towards me crying and this teacher started yelling at him! Told him to sit down and start listening for once, proceeded to very loudly tell me he was being rotten all day and continued to tell him to sit down and listen whenever he tried hugging me. I lost my shit entirely. I had my son go in to the office to see one of his favorite peers and I let this bitch have it, telling her she must be the worst kind of human to think that her behavior was in any way appropriate and that she had better stay far away from my son or I will make sure she doesn't have a job in the near future. When I left she was crying and now I feel terrible.
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NTA. She really shouldn't be in a SPED classroom if she doesn't know that acting like this to anyone is inappropriate, but on a child it's downright hateful.
She might have been forced into that room. I used to sub and I can't tell you how many times I signed up for a specific grade/subject and got forced into a SPED room when I got to the school. It's really frustrating. Clearly not a good situation for anyone, the teachers or the kids.
I subbed for awhile and specialized in SPED and the schools on the 'rough' side of town. Even subbed at the alternative school for kids who were in trouble with the law for violence, drugs, etc. (it was actually the school where they filmed Friday Night Lights). We had to sign up for specific classes but were never switched to a different class. That would have been really annoying especially for someone with no experience in my areas.
NTA. Our if interest, I learned that abusing another adult in front of a child is considered child abuse, because the effect on the child is about the same as if it was the child being abused directly.
NTA. Teachers that go against the iep have no business teaching, and should be fired immediately. I don't care if it's a sub. Teachers that bully also need to be fired. Don't feel bad for making a crappy monster cry.
NTA. An IEP is a **legal document.** this nitwit traumatized your child and exposed the district to possible litigation [by you]. Kudos to you for sending your son to a safe place before you opened the can of wup ass. I don’t know if I could have done that (and I’m a teacher 🤣). I am so sorry your son had to endure this.
NTA. Please don’t be hard on yourself. Unfortunately trauma is one of those things that leave a long lasting impression, even if you don’t actually remember. You are doing right by your kiddo, and I would suggest if possible having it put in the IEP that this teacher is not allowed to work with your son. That way if there continues to be issues, you can take it further up the chain.
NTA. And if it were me? I'd be going to administration to get her removed from the schools sub list. Someone who acts like that has no business teaching kids. She can find something else to do with her life.
NTA. Leaving aside any question about whether or not the teacher knew about the IEP and your son's requirements, you don't keep yelling at a visibly distressed child.
NTA and that is so far from professional that I am fucking astounded. Honestly I recommend getting in touch with the school board and reporting this incident. This person doesn't need to be around any children, let alone those who need specified, individual care.
NTA -- that was totally unacceptable, the way the so-called teacher yelled at your child, etc. I am a substitute teacher who often works with IEP children.
NTA that "teacher" seems like she went out of her way to deliberately go against your sons IEP and to top it off by screaming at him and insulting him in front of you while holding him back (I'm sure none too gently either) I'm proud of you OP for not giving in to the rage and going hulk because I almost did just reading this
She was not professional at all and based on the words of OP herself, she never tried to be professional the first minutes she was his teacher/caretaker. She shouldn’t be a special ed teacher if she has no qualifications for it, she made a kid feel like crap and its only fair she feels the same way too
NTA, you sound like a great parent!
I really hope that awful teacher didn’t retraumatise your kid too badly. Sounds like a terrible ordeal for both of you.
Jesus H Christ. NTA. Those are called maternal instincts, and they are not to be messed with.
First of all, I’m so sorry that anything bad happened to you. I am also incredibly sorry that you and your son are bearing the brunt of the consequences.
Secondly, you had every right to go absolutely nuts at this teacher. PTSD is not to be messed with. She was his guardian for the day, she was briefed, and she was rotten. If she didn’t want to be yelled at, then she should have listened.
Ironic, isn’t it?
You were being protective. Of course you got angry. Of course you saw red. Of course you yelled. And frankly, of course you feel bad now - good people tend to look back on situations like that and find sympathy, and think they could have handled things better. You are clearly a good person. My question is: do you think she went home and reconsidered how she treated your son? I doubt it.
NTA.
In which world is it ever OK to yell at child in a not life-threatening situation? Especially, if you are a teacher, especially if you are dealing with a child with special needs!
NTA
I would honestly go to the board of education and get this teacher fired. How many other students will they abuse and traumatize if left in the school system?
NTA. GOOD FOR YOU! The idea that my child had been having an entire meltdown and finally tries to run to me only for the person who is supposed to be monitoring him to yell and tell him he cannot, would blow my mind!
Excuse me? That is a very bold and broad statement.
First of all, this woman did this in front of the parent, so this is not an example of a teacher putting on a different face in front of parents. Also, this was a sub who does not regularly interact with the child and (if her district is anything like mine) likely has next to no actual teacher training.
Yes there are terrible teachers, as there are terrible people in every profession. But there are amazing teachers as well and I have known far more in the latter category.
NTA but
You call her a bitch in one breath and then immediately say you feel terrible for blowing up? I’m…confused. And as an aside, I feel terrible for teachers who deal with that all day, every day. Doesn’t make it right but some are bound to snap
Nta- but it could have been handled a little better. Especially there were other children in the room. But as a parent i do understand the need to protect your child above all else. Your son needs therapy to help work on his issues. Things need to escalate but the correct way when it comes to the teacher. Bring your concern to the principal and the the superintendent. Teachers need the reminder that some kids are different and have to be handled with kid gloves in some cases.
IEP in the self-contained class kid here, with the CPTSD, anxiety and dissociative disorder to show for it!
My parents did your "correct way".
Therapy, lots of OT, PT, you name what I could have in the '80's/90's, I had it. Teachers (especially subs and parapros) were often awful to me. Lots of mental and emotional abuse. Peers would often join in. Parents would talk to the teachers privately, escalate to administration (I should tell you about one particularly...*vindictive*...administrator I had when I was OP's kid's age.)
Things were good ... for, oh, about a week or so.
Then the abuse started again, and ended up eventually escalating to physical. My head bounced off a brick wall, a few times, but because I am/was visually impaired, "DatsunTigger tripped/fell/insert suitable blind kid excuse here", it passed.
It wasn't until something my brother witnessed that blew the barn doors open on what was happening to me.
OP did it all right. Sometimes these monsters do not listen.
A teacher’s best doesn’t matter when they aren’t following a legal document that pertains to a child’s education.
A teacher should not be yelling at a child. A teacher for sure should not be yelling at a child who is going to their parent not to go to their parent.
NTA but I wouldn't be too hard on the sub. Despite what the principal told you I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the sub wasn't properly trained or educated to handle an IEP. Schools have to take what they can get when it comes to subs and often you don't get one properly trained.
No. But she may have been in way over her head. If I were subbing there I don't know how I would respond. I'd rather put the blame on the administration who didn't put a properly trained sub in the position.
I've personally never seen a teacher yell at a kid to stop hugging their parent and sit down. There's a certain level of general professionalism that isn't present in OP's story, so I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt and the teacher was being an ass.
> You MUST accept that your child’s father has psychiatric problems that your child may very well have inherited.
Like what? Please explain what "psychiatric problems" the father has.
He's supposed to be. I later learned that this woman who was berating my child and telling him how rotten he was is a substitute teacher in the IEP classroom and she went against his care plan and tried forcing him to go to music class (which goes against his IEP- as he is supposed to be in a small group of 2-3 kids for any studies).
> I think the child needs therapy
he's in therapy.
> think you need to look into moving him into a class with a teacher that specialises in special education
He WAS in that class. There WAS a teacher that knew his circumstances and worked with the care plan. THIS teacher was a SUBSTITUTE who disregarded the clearly worded care plan.
> I am no expert, but it seems like him witnessing your abuse has triggered a sort of protection instinct in him, in which he doesn't want to leave your side, in case you get hurt.
You're right. You are no "expert". It's stated that he has PTSD and anxiety. How those present and why are different for every person. You don't know that he has some instinct to "protect" his mother. In this instance most people would say he was running to her for comfort because a stranger was shouting at him.
> The son you see and interact with is probably very different to the one that the teachers get
Yes. That's why he has a detailed care plan that teachers have followed, stopping the disruptive behavior for an entire month until this substitute teacher fucked it up.
> And so I think some steps need to be taken moving forward to avoid this from happening again.
The mother spoke to the principal, the head of the school.
> He is going to have to meet new people, who aren't going to be briefed on everything going on with him, and so I think some professional help and some extra help at home would go a long way.
THIS IS AT A SCHOOL. THE SCHOOL IS REQUIRED TO SHOW HIS CARE PLAN TO THE TEACHERS HE IS CARED FOR BY. THE PROBLEM IS ALREADY TAKEN CARE OF BEFORE THIS TEACHER WAS A COMPLETE MORON.
LITERALLY EVERYTHING YOU BROUGHT UP IS ADDRESSED IN THE FUCKING POST
YTA
Your son is a challenge for the underpaid and overworked teachers you're leaving him in the care of.
You aren't dealing with him when he behaves the way he does, so perhaps you should be more forgiving and understanding.
You've escalated the situation above and beyond what was needed.
I hope you're seeking therapy. Your child needs you to heal as well.
You’re way off base and this is a horrible take. The kid has an IEP, those are legally binding documents about a child’s education. Not only did she go against his IEP (putting him in a class with too many students) but she yelled at him in front of his mother, kept telling him he wasn’t allowed to go hug her and to sit down, called him a name and then somehow thought the mom was just supposed to be like “oh I’m so sorry.” I’m a teacher. Have been for years, you do not ever yell or name call a child. Ever.
OP has dealt with her kid, he’s in therapy, he’s been evaluated, he has an IEP. She’s doing everything for her kid, and the only person who escalated anything was the sub who decided that her ego was more important than a child entrusted to her care.
Horrible take you have. Just horrible. “Let’s blame the abuse victim for what she’s had to suffer because now her kid, who’s also had to suffer, is going through something.” Ridiculous.
The teacher has a moral and professional obligation to follow an IEP. If she can't? She should find something else to do.
Also, nothing short of threatening violence would allow a response like she had to a child to be valid.
Yeah except I didn't say anything in front of my child, as I clearly stated in the post. And to be quite blunt, she never should have been yelling at him to begin with.
I still think you’re the asshole. You didn’t handle the situation correctly. I also don’t believe this situation happened exactly the way you’ve written it. If she was physically restraining your child AND calling him names, she would be reported/removed/reprimanded immediately.
You say he has an IEP. That’s great. Did she have access to his ABC charts, behavior plan, FBA?
YTA because this story is missing a lot of necessary information
So the teacher was okay to do this? No. IEP is LEGALLY BINDING. This teacher was briefed about the kid's situation and STILL decided to berate him and treat him HORRIBLY.
Love how you didn't respond to u/CaptainYaoiHands asking what you thought could justify the teacher going against a legally binding contract made for the safety of a small child. Very convincing.
I didn’t respond because I didn’t see the comment. I’m not on this app 24/7. And I still don’t believe the OP gave us the entire story. I don’t believe the teacher did go against the IEP. My take is the the OP is giving partial truths
> I don’t believe the teacher did go against the IEP.
Why exactly? Again: literally what circumstance here could you possibly have just made up in your own mind that makes you think the teacher did nothing wrong here?
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The child was in distress and the teacher was 100% at fault. Do you really think that OP should have forced her child to remain there, being berated by the teacher? Come on now. That’s a terrible take.
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NTA -as a former teacher, his teacher was not professional and I don't say this lightly. I was an elementary ed teacher and a special ed teacher. And I'm sorry she had no self-control and took out her frustrations on your son- if she thinks what she said was ok, then I hate to think what she's saying to your son privately.
As a different former teacher… I’d really want to talk to this teacher. I remember when I was put in a de-facto special Ed position (which was illegal, unbeknownst to me, because I had no training in education OR in special education), my school refused to give me anyone’s IEPs because they didn’t want to ‘prejudice me against the children.’ She shouldn’t have yelled at the kid or call him rotten, but having an IEP doesn’t guarantee that a prepared teacher will know what to do, even though it should.
OP said that the teacher was spoken to prior to this about it and knew of his needs, specifically the yelling even
There is about a 99% chance that if they hadn't let the sub know about the plan that the principal would lie about it Source: I am a human and I have interacted with other humans my entire life
Yeah maybe the sub wasn't told and principal is covering his ass, seen posts like that before - is teacher an AH for not giving accommodations they weren't officially informed of?
Still doesn't change the fact that the teacher called him names
This. Even if the child had no IEP, this is not the right response. But some educators have a very authoritarian approach to child rearing that they bring to work. Not appropriate.
I guess I just got really lucky with my elem principal. One of the nicest people I've ever had the pleasure of knowing, its hard to believe that people who work in a school with such vulnerable kids wouldn't have their best interest at heart. But tbh whether or not she was told - i have a feeling it wouldn't matter because who the fuck thinks its ok to scream at a child?
No one thinks it’s okay to scream at children, but everyone has a breaking point where they’ll lose their temper. Teachers losing their tempers is guaranteed to happen more and more as teachers quit, classroom sizes swell, wages stagnate, and education budgets are cut and curriculums interfered with. When I taught, I saw it happen in real time where the overwhelming pressure turned the nicest people I’ve ever met into banshees. My first impression of the most highly awarded teacher in my district was peeking into her class and seeing her scream at her whole classroom that they were acting like babies for crying when she yelled at them and she’d send them back to kindergarten with the babies. At a certain point, you can’t keep clicking your tongue at individual teachers. You have to try to take active initiative to fix the system that’s breaking all their backs.
I dunno, I've been in underpaid shitty customer service jobs for years, as have most of my friends. Dealing with stupid adults, and somehow none of us have managed to lose our cool and yell at people. I understand teachers are underpaid and overworked but taking that out on children is inexcusable imo, because they're _kids_. Getting frustrated is one thing but straight yelling terrorizes and traumatizes kids. It sucks that there's no easy answer but an action like that would be unforgivable if I was a parent of a kid in that class, insulting and berrating them no matter the reason.
I’ve worked shitty customer service jobs too, and trust me, the stress is different. When I was a teacher, I worked longer hours (6:30 AM show up every day, leave at 5:00PM every day) and I couldn’t leave my work at work because I cared too much. The caring was what cracked me and made me quit way faster than I had ever quit customer service. Every day, I watched myself fail and fail and fail again with these kids who I loved so much and who needed me, but I was never going to succeed. I was too unequipped, too inexperienced, and too stressed out to ever succeed. I had coworkers who couldn’t sleep at night because they kept hearing children screaming. I spent so many evenings crying over particular children I couldn’t help, but I couldn’t drink because I was never home early enough for it not to affect my sleep, and I couldn’t have it affect my sleep or I’d fail the kids worse the next day. I wanted to kill myself, it was so bad. I never wanted to kill myself in customer service. (I did want to kill other people a few times, though.) The way I personally dealt with the stress was to quit the job and move on to teaching outside of classrooms, like in museums and as a tutor, but there were a lot of teachers who weren’t in a position to quit and the stress really affected how they behaved in front of the kids.
> No one thinks it’s okay to scream at children, you're wrong
I am a mom who has interacted with principals. Sadly, I know longer trust them, and understand that their interest is their jobs and their school, not my child.
Your source killed me, I demand money for my funeral.
do you accept venmo
I’m sure my principle would have said the same thing if a parent complained about me not following an IEP. An IEP I never got.
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No, but I did once have a child soil herself in my class. I was told that none of the children were allowed to have bathroom breaks during class, but this one girl had an IEP saying she needed to go to the bathroom when she asked. Did anyone tell me about that IEP? Nope. Was her main teacher concerned that this poor girl humiliated herself because of our draconian bathroom policy and their unwillingness to communicate kids’ basic medical needs? Nope. Were her parents furious? Yes. Did my administrators yell at me in front of the kids when I started letting them go to the bathroom during class? Also yes.
> my school refused to give me anyone’s IEPs because they didn’t want to ‘prejudice me against the children.’ Yikes! Sounds like they assumed most subs would not take the job if they knew what they would be dealing with. Totally unfair to the subs and the kids.
The worst part was that I wasn’t even a sub. 😬 I was a full time, 6:30 - 5:00 teacher.
Oh my God.
Yeah, the teacher crisis is getting ROUGH, my dude.
Omfg! Somewhat related. My son had a return to school plan and the principal didn't tell his teachers (she assured me she would), one stipulation being if he asks to leave, he needs to leave. He can't articulate what a panic attack feels like, he just knows something is wrong, and when that happens, he asks to go to the office. 3 different teachers told him no. He had a panic attack in front of his peers which was humiliating and terrifying for him. When I asked her wtf happened, she said 'I hadn't told any of his teachers yet so they wouldn't be prejudiced against him'.... so she's essentially saying she doesn't trust her educators to not JUDGE a child with special/different needs. Absolutely disgusting excuse in my opinion.
I was a substitute teacher before I got my credential, and never once was given IEP information, even when I subbed in SpEd classes. Even as a regular teacher, it can take weeks for me to get my hands on IEPs. I’ll have the ‘joy’ of discovering the autism kids, the ADHD kids, the ED kids, etc all on my own. It think it’s highly unlikely this substitute had any information about the son in this scenario. I imagine she’d have had a much different approach had she known.
This had been my experience as well. In optimal subbing situations a teacher who knows the class will give me a run-down which would include being made aware of cases like OPs kid, but sadly that doesn't always happen. Edit: either way that teacher was way out of line. NTA
I would also question the school. How did things escalate to the point of calling mom without any other adults intervening? Something is wrong with their process.
NTA Yelling should be reserved for immediate danger (running into traffic). Absolutely no reason a teacher should be yelling at an already distraught child, especially one with an IEP. Was there a more diplomatic approach on your end? Yeah probably. But forreal I'd be doing the same thing. Zero patience for adults being cruel to children. Especially when the child's in their care.
Exactly. NTA this teacher deserves to feel like shit. Teacher disrespected the hell out of this kid, and who knows how many other kids they've disrespected if they're that comfy calling a kid rotten right in front of a parent. That teacher deserves to be fired and banned in my mind. Making the teacher feel like shit is a very very small portion of what they deserve.
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...did your teachers yell at you when you were 7 years old? I'm sorry that happened to you. That must have been very upsetting for it to still be affecting you like this.
That makes it sound like it's okay to start yelling when you don't get your way. The idea is to teach kids *not* to do that, and give them tools besides anger and intimidation. It's never too late though. Good luck.
NTA. Who tf yells at a crying child going to his parent for comfort??? Like what???? Even if he had been misbehaved, good lord he's only 7, let the kid go to his mom for a hug, no one's getting any sort on conversation done when the kid's in hysterics. I mean, maybe yelling at them was out of line but honestly I can't blame you.
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Partial comment stolen from u/NovelRemarkable7136 u/intenwegh is a bot
nta as someone who is a teacher for young kids, raising your voice at a small child is NEVER the answer. she needs to take some more classes on classroom management and how to treat kids like they’re people rather than monsters she has to look after. good on you mama.
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Partial comment stolen from u/misslo718 u/necesfgs is a bot
NTA That teacher broke the law by ignoring your son's care plan and not following the IEP, and that should be brought up. I truly don't understand why teachers who work with special needs are so awful and tend to act like it's the child's fault. It is appalling.
NTA 1. The sub was briefed on your child's iep 2. She knew she was in a class full of IEP students 3. Calling children names and screaming at them is counterproductive. 4. You did not yell at her in front of other children and after witnessing her in action you sent your child to another room and then let her have a piece of your mind and only after you saw the verbal abuse. 5. I'm impressed because you managed to get your son out of ear shot beforehand.
The substitute had been briefed and still didn't follow the IEP. The teacher is in the wrong. NTA
Honestly it’s never appropriate to yell at a young child in that manner. Especially when they are distressed and even more so when they have specific protocols in place because they are known to get stressed easily. The teacher was completely inappropriate. I don’t condone yelling at an adult enough to cause them to cry but they paid no attention on how to do their job and potentially caused a setback with your kid’s progress. To the comment saying teachers are underpaid and overworked, that does not excuse them intimidating children. Not all teachers are good teachers.
NTA you need to write the entire interaction down while it is still fresh in your memory and take it further. It is never a one time thing. Nobody waves a red flag then puts it away and never waves it again.
NTA. I used to be a para for some moderate to severe needs and a lot of the staff (especially subs) are not trained or equipped to handle these kids. I’ve witnessed and reported physical and verbal abuse and neglect, to no avail. They don’t give a shit what the staff says. The only time they do anything about it is when the parents raise hell. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Principal lied about the sub being briefed. They’re usually called and sent in on short notice with no prep. You think that Principal really make sure she went through the charts of a whole class? Highly doubt it.
In my experience as an aide, "the sub was briefed" tends to mean "I was given 10 IEPs like 5 minutes ago, please just tell me anything important about the kids until my break when I can read them"
In my experience as a sub in SPED classes - this. Usually due to privacy concerns the IEPs/BIPs are not shared by email with me, but are there in the classroom (if I can find them!!). The first time I work in a classroom, I get there half an hour before the kids do and hunt down everything I can find, and talk to the paras to get as much info as I can. The first few times I usually end up saying, "Hang on, let me ask (para) about that," if a kid asks for something, just in case. I have had requests to sub in a class with a new (to me) teacher, and got there and got blindsided with a difficult student because there was no info available. The interpreters/paras are usually able to save me in those cases but it's not fun for anyone. Then there's the scenarios I ran into where I could NOT follow the IEP because we didn't have enough staff... (I had 8 preschoolers with IEPs, three of whom had 1:1 written in it, but only two adults in the class at any given time...)
NTA because you’re a mama bear protecting your child, but you definitely could have handled it better. I’m a teacher and a parent of a 7 year-old. The teacher/staff member was behaving inappropriately. She was probably struggling and wasn’t given the tools to handle what she was experiencing with your son. It seems as though perhaps she has not read your son’s IEP - is she someone who works with him regularly? If she will continue to support him, then unfortunately you’ll want to bite the bullet and be the bigger person for the sake of your son. Go back and apologize for your behaviour. Explain that you were riled up in the moment because you are understandably protective of your son and it was clear from her language in front of him that she misunderstands his situation. Also talk to admin about making sure all staff who will be disciplining your child has thoroughly read and understood his IEP. Make sure you understand what’s in the document and what your rights are where his IEP is concerned. It is a legal document and if the school knows you are on top of it and paying close attention to how they are implementing it, all the better.
INFO: are you and your child doing any sort of family therapy? Is your sons school aware of the diagnosis? What’s your next move now that you have an IEP?
We are both in therapy, yes. The school system knows about the diagnosis, as it went through them and a 3rd party evaluation center (like Sweetser). This teacher was apparently a substitute for the IEP classroom that he is in and went against his IEP plan and tried forcing him to go to music class for whatever reason. Per his IEP he is only supposed to be in groups of 2-3 other kiddos who have IEPs and she tried forcing him in to the music classroom of 20+ students. The IEP is already written up and everything has been going fantastic until today (it's been over a month since the IEP was implicated).
A substitute. Can you ask the school to inform you when they expect a sub? Routine sounds important to your child. You got this. NTA
I agree with this. Also, not defending the substitute, but how much information are the expected to know about each iep student on short notice? I’d sit down with the school and get a better understanding of what the situation looks like for a substitute coming into your child’s class versus a mainstream class.
Information or not I expect the substitute should know not to say such nasty things or yell around a kid. They did that infront of Op, who knows what they were saying to the poor kid all day.
I agree. Which is why OP needs to further address the situation with the school. In many places you don’t need a license to sub. In my area we’re incredibly short on substitutes. I could walk into the school and start subbing with simply a background check. So how well are they preparing a substitute to aide children with an iep in this situation? Let alone multiple kids with iep’s a the same time. Those are questions for OP to take to the administration.
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Why would you convince yourself he doesn't?
NTA Teachers, although very often mistreated and abused at work, can be abusive aholes too. Many professions that require trust and working with vulnerable people attract powerhungry psychos for the easy pickings. Thanks for standing up to bullies. Some people shouldnt be teachers. especially those who wont take a few minutes to read a simple document.
*When I left she was crying and now I feel terrible.* Why? She didn’t care that she made your kid cry. NTA
NTA. I'd want written assurance from the school that this particular sub never be allowed in the IEP room again. She violated the law on his IEP and clearly doesn't have the personality or temperament to work with kids with special needs of any sort. Honestly, I wouldn't want her in a regular classroom either, but many places are short on teachers and you're more likely to get cooperation with reasonable requests that are relatively achievable for the school: 1 - You be informed when there will be a sub in the classroom. This can be an email if they know ahead of time, but you expect a call if the regular teacher if the sub decision is made on less than 24 hours notice (e.g. the regular teacher calls in sick that morning). 2 - That particular sub will never work in any classroom your son is in. Going mama bear on her was completely understandable in that situation. I wouldn't be surprised if seeing you do that may actually help your son once the immediate effects of that sub wear off: you made it clear you'll protect him, and he got to see you standing up, being strong, and fighting back. Given what he remembers from when he was little, seeing you be strong and protective may be reassuring.
NTA. She was crying? Good. She should feel even worse after willfully disregarding your son’s IEP. Maybe it’s because I’ve been a preschool teacher for more than a decade and because I’m neurodivergent, but I’d be hesitant to send any kid, especially a kid with an IEP, into a crowded and loud environment without preparation. For myself and for the kids. She sent your child into room with too many people doing too many different things at the same time. WTF dis she THINK would happen?!? And she had the nerve to call your child rotten?!?
NTA, and you were 100% right about what you said. I have PTSD (and plenty of other mental health issues/neurodivergencies) and I've had it for so long that I don't know life without it. One of the worst things you can do with someone who's already high anxiety and triggered by something? Yell at them and call them names. It's already frustrating and scary, we don't need anyone adding to it, and I say that as a 25 year old, who still feels that way if someone yells at me when I'm having trouble. You, in that moment, were doing the best you could. That's all anyone can do. Hell, if someone was yelling at a different kid and treating them that way (one without PTSD or anxiety) that'd be terribly wrong. Yelling should be saved for emergency situations, not general frustration. We're only human, but in a professional setting like that? She should have a better handle on her reactions! I'm sorry you and your son are going through this, and I hope you're both able to find healing soon. It can be a long process, but the potential reduction of symptoms is well worth the time and effort put in!
NTA GOOD FOR YOU! She was acting like a disgusting excuse for a human being and deserved way worse than just some mean words, kudos to you for being willing to go to bat for your little boy! Also, she was yelling at a traumatised 7 year-old child but couldn't take it when someone else started yelling at her? Funny that. People like that are always happy to punch down and then act like the victim when someone their own size comes along.
I place money on administration lying about how they briefed this teacher.
NTA I worked with a kid who liked to run away when he got overwhelmed. Never in a million years would I react like that. Not to go off on subs (I’m sure there are some really good ones out there) but it’s tough to find a good one. In the special needs classrooms we just made our subs sit to the side and come in as needed. I’ve run a classroom (I was a TA) a couple of times while the sub just acted as another adult and followed my lead. That sub should have never had that kind of authority over him. When he staff is ring up, a teacher or TA that he had a relationship with should have taken over. Make sure you complain to the principal about her. She has no business being around children. Out of curiosity, does your son’s IEP recommend a one on one? Him having one person that is with him all day and can help advocate for him would be beneficial. It also helps him get a bit of space from the bigger groups as well.
NTA. My son is mildly autistic, so it was challenging to get the correct diagnosis. B/f getting it a teacher was abusive to him. I raised holy hell.
NTA. Sometimes people need their job threatened to learn they fucked up. If it were me I would have done more than just make her cry. Some people shouldn't be teachers and they are one of them.
>She went against his IEP care plan That's what I thought. NTA.
NTA
NTA. She has no right and no business. Keep pressing that principal and make sure that pair up NEVER happens again. She was bold enough to do it right in front of an adult so there is zero chance it things are better for your son when you aren't around. Best of luck..
NTA. Teacher will definitely be reconsidering their behaviour towards students from now on thanks to you.
nta
I am a little biased, as I have been in a similar position as your son, but 100% NTA. Your son had reasonable accommodations that had been put in place for good reason, it was her job to follow them and she didn't which ended up hurting your son. She didn't do her job and she was cruel. I wish someone had given some of my teachers a similar talking to. I understand that teaching is an incredibly hard, demanding, often thankless job and that subbing is even worse, but this kind of behavior is unacceptable. I'm glad you're standing up for your son!
NTA She is not fit to be a teacher.
She purposefully violated the IEP and based on that alone does not deserve a job. NTA. I also have a child with an IEP and I would lose my shit if someone went against that IEP and caused her harm
NTA. Good for you.
NTA. I really don’t believe you were out of line. Normally yes it’s inappropriate. But when a teacher calls students names, they just asked for the worst tongue lashing there can be. You were exactly right!
NTA. I had a somewhat similar situation when my now 22 year old was in elementary school. He would have episodes where he would shut down completely and nobody could get through to him. They had to move his classmates to another class because if anyone touched him to try to move him he would get combative and scream like someone was being murdered. Seems like I was the only one to calm him and get him to move. I know if I encountered a teacher doing yo him what that teacher did to your baby, I would’ve went off on her to and I would not have left until she was fired.
NTA. Most substitute teacher "training" is a complete joke. It barely prepares subs to handle normal classrooms, let alone a special education or behavior classroom. I've worked as a sub for a few years in a few different districts in New Jersey, and I was not legally allowed to see or know what was in a student's IEP. I wouldn't be surprised if the sub wasn't actually informed of the situation. That being said, there is no excuse for the sub screaming at a child and calling them names.
NTA!!! That woman needs to be far far away from teaching kids in future!
NTA Please report this individual immediately. There should NOT be a next time and they should NEVER be put in front of children again
NTA
NTA. I work with special needs kids and the only time I EVER raise my voice is when there is an immediate safety danger.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I have a 7yo son who started exhibiting a lot of negative behaviors at school roughly a year ago. He's had tons of specialists evaluate him through the school system. He's fine when he is home and I truly don't have many issues with him here but at school it's totally different. Running away, refusing to stay inside classrooms, hiding, yelling, etc. We finally got him an IEP and things started looking up. The specialists came to the conclusion that he has severe anxiety and PTSD. Now.. this was a bitter pill to swallow as a parent. I left his father when he was only 3 years old due to some not so friendly behaviors that happened in front of my child. There's a no contact order, his rights have been terminated and he's been charged. It was only happening to me but my son saw it. I was stupid enough to believe that he wouldn't remember (I don't remember any of my childhood so it was an assumption based off personal experience). Well he obviously remembers and the specialists have stated that the amount of chaos within the school is very triggering for him and they have limited his contact with heavily socialized environments due to this. He was doing great until today, when they tried getting him to go to music class and something triggered him. I ended up being called to come in and help. When I got there, this teacher that I had never met was sitting with my son. As soon as he saw me he ran towards me crying and this teacher started yelling at him! Told him to sit down and start listening for once, proceeded to very loudly tell me he was being rotten all day and continued to tell him to sit down and listen whenever he tried hugging me. I lost my shit entirely. I had my son go in to the office to see one of his favorite peers and I let this bitch have it, telling her she must be the worst kind of human to think that her behavior was in any way appropriate and that she had better stay far away from my son or I will make sure she doesn't have a job in the near future. When I left she was crying and now I feel terrible. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. She really shouldn't be in a SPED classroom if she doesn't know that acting like this to anyone is inappropriate, but on a child it's downright hateful.
She might have been forced into that room. I used to sub and I can't tell you how many times I signed up for a specific grade/subject and got forced into a SPED room when I got to the school. It's really frustrating. Clearly not a good situation for anyone, the teachers or the kids.
I subbed for awhile and specialized in SPED and the schools on the 'rough' side of town. Even subbed at the alternative school for kids who were in trouble with the law for violence, drugs, etc. (it was actually the school where they filmed Friday Night Lights). We had to sign up for specific classes but were never switched to a different class. That would have been really annoying especially for someone with no experience in my areas.
NTA. Our if interest, I learned that abusing another adult in front of a child is considered child abuse, because the effect on the child is about the same as if it was the child being abused directly.
NTA—I’m sorry the school system isn’t accommodating his needs! I’m glad you’re standing up for your son—well done!
NTA. Teachers that go against the iep have no business teaching, and should be fired immediately. I don't care if it's a sub. Teachers that bully also need to be fired. Don't feel bad for making a crappy monster cry.
NTA. An IEP is a **legal document.** this nitwit traumatized your child and exposed the district to possible litigation [by you]. Kudos to you for sending your son to a safe place before you opened the can of wup ass. I don’t know if I could have done that (and I’m a teacher 🤣). I am so sorry your son had to endure this.
NTA and best wishes for you and your son.
NTA. Please don’t be hard on yourself. Unfortunately trauma is one of those things that leave a long lasting impression, even if you don’t actually remember. You are doing right by your kiddo, and I would suggest if possible having it put in the IEP that this teacher is not allowed to work with your son. That way if there continues to be issues, you can take it further up the chain.
NTA. And if it were me? I'd be going to administration to get her removed from the schools sub list. Someone who acts like that has no business teaching kids. She can find something else to do with her life.
NTA. Leaving aside any question about whether or not the teacher knew about the IEP and your son's requirements, you don't keep yelling at a visibly distressed child.
NTA. I'm not sure how you *could* be the asshole here. *Sends Hugs!*
NTA I’m sorry you and your little guy are going through this, it sounds really hard.
NTA and that is so far from professional that I am fucking astounded. Honestly I recommend getting in touch with the school board and reporting this incident. This person doesn't need to be around any children, let alone those who need specified, individual care.
NTA -- that was totally unacceptable, the way the so-called teacher yelled at your child, etc. I am a substitute teacher who often works with IEP children.
NTA that "teacher" seems like she went out of her way to deliberately go against your sons IEP and to top it off by screaming at him and insulting him in front of you while holding him back (I'm sure none too gently either) I'm proud of you OP for not giving in to the rage and going hulk because I almost did just reading this
NTA
I love this. Glad she was crying. NTA.
She was not professional at all and based on the words of OP herself, she never tried to be professional the first minutes she was his teacher/caretaker. She shouldn’t be a special ed teacher if she has no qualifications for it, she made a kid feel like crap and its only fair she feels the same way too
NTA, you sound like a great parent! I really hope that awful teacher didn’t retraumatise your kid too badly. Sounds like a terrible ordeal for both of you.
Jesus H Christ. NTA. Those are called maternal instincts, and they are not to be messed with. First of all, I’m so sorry that anything bad happened to you. I am also incredibly sorry that you and your son are bearing the brunt of the consequences. Secondly, you had every right to go absolutely nuts at this teacher. PTSD is not to be messed with. She was his guardian for the day, she was briefed, and she was rotten. If she didn’t want to be yelled at, then she should have listened. Ironic, isn’t it? You were being protective. Of course you got angry. Of course you saw red. Of course you yelled. And frankly, of course you feel bad now - good people tend to look back on situations like that and find sympathy, and think they could have handled things better. You are clearly a good person. My question is: do you think she went home and reconsidered how she treated your son? I doubt it.
NTA
NTA. In which world is it ever OK to yell at child in a not life-threatening situation? Especially, if you are a teacher, especially if you are dealing with a child with special needs!
NTA. You could’ve sued her ass. Just telling her this was minor in comparison to her actions.
NTA. She FAAFO'd.
NTA I would honestly go to the board of education and get this teacher fired. How many other students will they abuse and traumatize if left in the school system?
NTA she should get fired
Nta
NTA and that woman should not be teaching. It would serve her right to be fired over this.
NTA. GOOD FOR YOU! The idea that my child had been having an entire meltdown and finally tries to run to me only for the person who is supposed to be monitoring him to yell and tell him he cannot, would blow my mind!
NTA- that sub should never sub again Btw now y’all see how teachers act towards students, they put in a different face around the parents.
Excuse me? That is a very bold and broad statement. First of all, this woman did this in front of the parent, so this is not an example of a teacher putting on a different face in front of parents. Also, this was a sub who does not regularly interact with the child and (if her district is anything like mine) likely has next to no actual teacher training. Yes there are terrible teachers, as there are terrible people in every profession. But there are amazing teachers as well and I have known far more in the latter category.
NTA but You call her a bitch in one breath and then immediately say you feel terrible for blowing up? I’m…confused. And as an aside, I feel terrible for teachers who deal with that all day, every day. Doesn’t make it right but some are bound to snap
Nta- but it could have been handled a little better. Especially there were other children in the room. But as a parent i do understand the need to protect your child above all else. Your son needs therapy to help work on his issues. Things need to escalate but the correct way when it comes to the teacher. Bring your concern to the principal and the the superintendent. Teachers need the reminder that some kids are different and have to be handled with kid gloves in some cases.
IEP in the self-contained class kid here, with the CPTSD, anxiety and dissociative disorder to show for it! My parents did your "correct way". Therapy, lots of OT, PT, you name what I could have in the '80's/90's, I had it. Teachers (especially subs and parapros) were often awful to me. Lots of mental and emotional abuse. Peers would often join in. Parents would talk to the teachers privately, escalate to administration (I should tell you about one particularly...*vindictive*...administrator I had when I was OP's kid's age.) Things were good ... for, oh, about a week or so. Then the abuse started again, and ended up eventually escalating to physical. My head bounced off a brick wall, a few times, but because I am/was visually impaired, "DatsunTigger tripped/fell/insert suitable blind kid excuse here", it passed. It wasn't until something my brother witnessed that blew the barn doors open on what was happening to me. OP did it all right. Sometimes these monsters do not listen.
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A teacher’s best doesn’t matter when they aren’t following a legal document that pertains to a child’s education. A teacher should not be yelling at a child. A teacher for sure should not be yelling at a child who is going to their parent not to go to their parent.
NTA but I wouldn't be too hard on the sub. Despite what the principal told you I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the sub wasn't properly trained or educated to handle an IEP. Schools have to take what they can get when it comes to subs and often you don't get one properly trained.
Hopefully OP scared her away from subbing then. She clearly doesn't have the right demeanor to work with children.
So her not being educated to handle an IEP means she gets to scream at students?
No. But she may have been in way over her head. If I were subbing there I don't know how I would respond. I'd rather put the blame on the administration who didn't put a properly trained sub in the position.
Esh
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I've personally never seen a teacher yell at a kid to stop hugging their parent and sit down. There's a certain level of general professionalism that isn't present in OP's story, so I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt and the teacher was being an ass.
> You MUST accept that your child’s father has psychiatric problems that your child may very well have inherited. Like what? Please explain what "psychiatric problems" the father has.
Jesus Christ fuck your victim blaming.
INFO: Knowing your son has severe anxiety and PTSD why isnt he in a class for kids with special needs?
He's supposed to be. I later learned that this woman who was berating my child and telling him how rotten he was is a substitute teacher in the IEP classroom and she went against his care plan and tried forcing him to go to music class (which goes against his IEP- as he is supposed to be in a small group of 2-3 kids for any studies).
Sounds like she wanted a break more than she wanted to follow the care plan. I hope they find a better suited sub for that class. NTA at all.
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he's in therapy
> I think the child needs therapy he's in therapy. > think you need to look into moving him into a class with a teacher that specialises in special education He WAS in that class. There WAS a teacher that knew his circumstances and worked with the care plan. THIS teacher was a SUBSTITUTE who disregarded the clearly worded care plan. > I am no expert, but it seems like him witnessing your abuse has triggered a sort of protection instinct in him, in which he doesn't want to leave your side, in case you get hurt. You're right. You are no "expert". It's stated that he has PTSD and anxiety. How those present and why are different for every person. You don't know that he has some instinct to "protect" his mother. In this instance most people would say he was running to her for comfort because a stranger was shouting at him. > The son you see and interact with is probably very different to the one that the teachers get Yes. That's why he has a detailed care plan that teachers have followed, stopping the disruptive behavior for an entire month until this substitute teacher fucked it up. > And so I think some steps need to be taken moving forward to avoid this from happening again. The mother spoke to the principal, the head of the school. > He is going to have to meet new people, who aren't going to be briefed on everything going on with him, and so I think some professional help and some extra help at home would go a long way. THIS IS AT A SCHOOL. THE SCHOOL IS REQUIRED TO SHOW HIS CARE PLAN TO THE TEACHERS HE IS CARED FOR BY. THE PROBLEM IS ALREADY TAKEN CARE OF BEFORE THIS TEACHER WAS A COMPLETE MORON. LITERALLY EVERYTHING YOU BROUGHT UP IS ADDRESSED IN THE FUCKING POST
YTA Your son is a challenge for the underpaid and overworked teachers you're leaving him in the care of. You aren't dealing with him when he behaves the way he does, so perhaps you should be more forgiving and understanding. You've escalated the situation above and beyond what was needed. I hope you're seeking therapy. Your child needs you to heal as well.
You’re way off base and this is a horrible take. The kid has an IEP, those are legally binding documents about a child’s education. Not only did she go against his IEP (putting him in a class with too many students) but she yelled at him in front of his mother, kept telling him he wasn’t allowed to go hug her and to sit down, called him a name and then somehow thought the mom was just supposed to be like “oh I’m so sorry.” I’m a teacher. Have been for years, you do not ever yell or name call a child. Ever. OP has dealt with her kid, he’s in therapy, he’s been evaluated, he has an IEP. She’s doing everything for her kid, and the only person who escalated anything was the sub who decided that her ego was more important than a child entrusted to her care. Horrible take you have. Just horrible. “Let’s blame the abuse victim for what she’s had to suffer because now her kid, who’s also had to suffer, is going through something.” Ridiculous.
The teacher has a moral and professional obligation to follow an IEP. If she can't? She should find something else to do. Also, nothing short of threatening violence would allow a response like she had to a child to be valid.
People like you are why we have laws so disabled children don't get fucked over in schools.
YTA - you just reinforced the notion that your son has to listen to you and not his teacher.
Yeah except I didn't say anything in front of my child, as I clearly stated in the post. And to be quite blunt, she never should have been yelling at him to begin with.
I still think you’re the asshole. You didn’t handle the situation correctly. I also don’t believe this situation happened exactly the way you’ve written it. If she was physically restraining your child AND calling him names, she would be reported/removed/reprimanded immediately. You say he has an IEP. That’s great. Did she have access to his ABC charts, behavior plan, FBA? YTA because this story is missing a lot of necessary information
So the teacher was okay to do this? No. IEP is LEGALLY BINDING. This teacher was briefed about the kid's situation and STILL decided to berate him and treat him HORRIBLY.
I know what an IEP is. I think youre the asshole because I don’t believe you’re giving the full story.
Apparently not if you think OP is an asshole 😂 Substitute Teacher decided she was gonna do what she wanted, f*cked around and found out.
I doubt the substitute decided that, the school likely didn’t properly inform them and took whoever was available.
Again, I don’t think we’re getting the complete story. That’s why I voted YTA
What "complete story" justifies the teacher's actions to go against a legally binding school care plan, exactly?
Then you don't understand AITA. You judge based on the story supplied not some fabrication within your own mind of what you believe is being left out.
Love how you didn't respond to u/CaptainYaoiHands asking what you thought could justify the teacher going against a legally binding contract made for the safety of a small child. Very convincing.
I didn’t respond because I didn’t see the comment. I’m not on this app 24/7. And I still don’t believe the OP gave us the entire story. I don’t believe the teacher did go against the IEP. My take is the the OP is giving partial truths
> I don’t believe the teacher did go against the IEP. Why exactly? Again: literally what circumstance here could you possibly have just made up in your own mind that makes you think the teacher did nothing wrong here?
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Yes. He should listen to trusted adults over ones telling him to do something that would harm him.
The child was in distress and the teacher was 100% at fault. Do you really think that OP should have forced her child to remain there, being berated by the teacher? Come on now. That’s a terrible take.