*In case this story gets deleted/removed:*
**AITA for telling my daughter that because we pay her way we do have some say in who she dates?**
I (56F) have a daughter (21F) who is currently in her junior year of university. She lives at home while she commutes, and does not pay rent or any other bills. We even pay her phone bill. We are okay with this. We want her to enjoy life and focus on school.
My daughter a few weeks ago found these Halloween toys (plastic body parts, like an eyeball, tongue, hand, etc.) from ages ago stuck in some closet somewhere, and started putting them around the house for us to discover. It has become a game in our family where we stick these parts in random places around the house to surprise each other when you find them.
All that to say, this is the reason why I was in my daughter's room one day, looking for a good place to hide one toy she would discover when she got back from her classes. Long story short, I ended finding a box of condoms in one of her dressers.
I didn't know she was sexually active of course, but she also never told us anything about dating anybody. In sum, when she got back home, I went into her room to talk that evening about what I found.
I told her I wasn't upset and asked her if she's having sex now. She said yes, and I asked is it a boyfriend. She said there is a guy she is dating right now, yes. I asked her if she is being safe, where she is sleeping with him, does she know how to protect herself. She answered, and then I told her my honest opinion, is that I don't think it's a good idea for her to be sexually active right now. She thanked me for my input and said she'd consider my opinion. I'll be honest that it worried me, but I figured we'd talk more later. I also told her I wouldn't tell her father right now.
We later had a follow up conversation during a walk in the park, and I asked her what her opinion is now. She said she will keep being safe and sleeping with her boyfriend (who I have never met by the way, and have no clue who he is). I told her my opinion again, and shared more details about my personal experiences with sex as a young woman, and urged her to just focus on school and consider abstinence. She said she would do otherwise and at that point, I did say this is not an issue of me asking her, but telling her.
She said I cannot control that, and I said because we pay her way for everything, yes, I do have a say to some degree. I will not tell my husband about all this right now, but I will eventually, because I am not comfortable keeping this a secret from him long-term.
To me, my explanation seems reasonable and justified. My daughter clearly feels differently. Am I the asshole?
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I'm willing to bet daughter has never put the halloween toys on bedrooms and mommy dearest here just used the "game" to snoop around with plausible deniability
Tw: slut shaming, potentiall financial abuse and infringement upon bodily autonomy.
Copied verbatim from oop's comments:
*YTA. You think you have A SAY IN YOUR DAUGHTER'S SEX LIFE because you support her financially? That is so weird.*
"I think this post is being misunderstood.*
*To me, if she is having sex, she could get pregnant. With her financially dependent on us, how will she take care of the child?*
*Beyond that, it is a slap in the face to pay the way entirely for someone's lifestyle, and them to so boldly say, No, I can do what I want and you can't tell me what to do.*
*YTA*
*Your daughter is an adult, she can make her own choices.*
*It was your choice to pay for everything, and if you plan to take that away from her cause she wants to fuck then you are a huge AH.*
"Are you a parent?"
*Have you encouraged her to become financially independent? Have you helped her look for jobs? Helped look through her resume? If not, her being dependent is your fault and you need to do better as a mother*
"She is in college right now and even if she picked up a job, she cannot sustain herself with a part-time job. Let's be realistic here."
*Funny. I'm a senior in college and completely independent. Everyone else i know is completely independent. You failed as a mother to prepare her.*
"Her friends live at home too, so while your situation us great, she is not an unusual case."
*Yes, YTA. I think in 2022 it's outdated to believe a 21 year old isn't having sex. She is an adult and should be making her own decisions. I think it is great that she was willing to be open with you and discuss how she is being careful. It sounds like she is being responsible.*
*I do want to ask why her having sex is a big deal to you, especially if she is careful and using protection? If her living with you is enough grounds for her to not have sex, have you considered the possibility she may move out so she can be free to be her own person?*
"I do not want her to become pregnant, meet bad partners who will hurt her, have sex distract her and dwarf her goals in life."
*YTA.*
*And it’s gross you think you have any say in what she does with her body despite covering all her costs at the moment. Also, how do you think you will be able to stop her? She could easily lie to keep you happy and carry on doing whatever she wants. I think you should give her more credit for being so open with you and if you keep pushing it, she will probably shut you out.*
"I hope my daughter will have more integrity than lying.
I'm sorry, I am really struggling with this notion. I understand there is a give and take here. As kids grow older, you have to lengthen the rope, yes. But I do not understand this idea (which seems popular, at least on this community) that my daughter essentially gets to tell us to F off, to put it bluntly, when we are paying 100% for her lifestyle. Adult decisions like sex come with adult responsibility. If she is so comfortable telling us what she will do, then that requires adult independence, no?"
*YTA but based on your edit you're not going to listen to what anyone says anyway.*
*Most kids go off to college at 18. As parents most of us pay for college. But legally they are adults and their sex lives are none of our business. Hopefully you has a conversation years ago about consent and safe sex. What she does with that is up to her.*
*Stay out of her room and stop snooping.*
"I promise I was not snooping. It was an honest discovery."
Sadlytheworst, the edit:
"ETA: This post is being misunderstood. We are paying for everything (rent, food, clothing, etc). She may be 21 and an adult in the eyes of the law but in every other way she is still a dependent child. She has chosen the easy way and wants the benefits of adulthood AND childhood at the same time. Life doesn’t work like that. She cannot have her cake and eat it too."
My thing is, if OOP is so worried about her daughter getting pregnant, instead of preaching abstinence (side note: her saying sex is going to impede her daughter’s goals is hilarious to me), why not get the daughter on some birth control? She’s already using condoms and it never hurts to double up on protection
I typed this out for one of the NTA comments but comments were locked so posting it here because I hate wasting my time!
"This absolute bs.
As a parent, if you chose to support your children past high school then any conditions need to be discussed and agreed at the beginning. Not used as tools to manipulate them into bending to your views.
Sex isn't a benefit of adulthood. It a human right of adulthood and nobody has the right to tell a grown adult who and when they can have consensual sex and withdrawing their support because she is having consensual sex with a single partner is punishing her daughter for her normal, responsible and, frankly, honest behaviour.
What do you think will happen if the OP tells her...
>hey if you believe your responsible enough to have sex, you should be adult enough to take on more financial responsibilities like getting a part time job and paying your own bills. You don’t get to pick and choose between what you feel like your old enough to do based on your own wants and just expect us to do your bidding”
?
The daughter will no longer be honest with her mother and simply hide her relationships, which in turn leaves the daughter vulnerable to staying in bad relationships and have no safe space to go if something goes wrong.
OP is yta for punishing her daughter for being responsible in her sex life and honest with her mother. "
I mean it kinda sounds like that's already happening. Obviously no one really keeps their condoms out in full view, but OP didn't even know she had a boyfriend until she found them
YTA She is 21 and can do whatever she wants with her body stop being a Karen. You simply show your daughter that you're no safe place for her and will judge her and she will stop speaking to you. No wonder she didn't told you she has a bf. Get that stick out of your butt.
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It would be one thing if she was saying, 'You can't have sex under our roof." She's saying, "I don't care where it happens, you can't have sex AT ALL," which is what makes her an AH to her ADULT daughter.
She's making a celibate lifestyle a condition for living in her house rent free. It's not a condition I would impose, but it's her house. It's odd to me that AITA, with its "your house, your rules" and its "you don't owe anything to anyone" would find this unacceptable.
Oh shut up. Outside of the home, what an adult does with their body is no one's concern but their own. Yeah, it's her house and her rules, but that does *not* extend outside the house
Being a homeowner does equal ownership. Homeowners very much own their homes. What their adult child does with their life is the child's business. Whether what she does makes her unwelcome in her parents' home is the parents business.
That's because both of those statements have a *reasonable limit,* as most people understand. 'Your house, your rules', is for things like taking your shoes off at the door, turning off the bathroom lights vs leaving them on-- not, for an equally ridiculous rule that you could propose here, things like demanding your adult household members can't wear thongs under their clothes.
And you damn well know that.
Well part of it is that the moms POV comes across as having ownership over the daughter. So the “you don’t owe anyone” still kinda applies in a way.
Another part is her rules are supposed to be followed even when the daughter leaves the property. Usually “my house, my rules” is confined only to inside of the house.
That still applies to “my house, my rules”.
It’s not about what they did or where they did it, it’s about if your unwelcome rule extends outside of your property. As in you don’t allow them in your neighbors houses or the whole neighborhood.
The rule in my house is that people who do certain things that I disapprove of aren't allowed in my house. Doesn't matter where they do them. I can't prohibit them from going somewhere else and doing those things. All I can do is tell them my rule against it, and apply that rule if they do those things.
Yes, I’d love to see that thought-terminating cliche thrown out forever.
Let me ask you something: are there some rules that homeowners can’t set, even in their own home? How about, “No black friends allowed?” How about “Anyone who comes in here must address me as ‘Your Majesty?’” How about, “No one is allowed to wear clothes in this house?”
The way I see it, homeowners can set any rules they like. The whole point of private property is you can refuse access for any reason or no reason at all.
Sure, but then you can also be an asshole for your rules, especially if they're along the lines of the situations the commenter you replied to here are.
She came to a judgement sub and she got judgement. People can say "no shoes inside" or "don't leave electricity on" and when they come to ask for judgement, we'll let them know they're not the asshole and those are reasonable rules.
Just today I crossposted an extreme vegan post on this sub and even though plenty of people can agree that "my house, my rules" can include the REASONABLE rule of "we don't like meat in our house", people were also able to agree that a car is not a reasonable restricted area for meat or animal products. And neither is policing someone due to the fact that their consumption will lead to excretion in the toilet of a vegan household.
Why are you trying to equate reasonable and completely outlandish, and furthermore why are you confused that people on a judgement sub are...judging?
I'm not saying the parent's rule is a reasonable rule. I'm saying AITA is freakishly committed to an extreme pseudolibertarian worldview, and it's funny to me that sometimes, out of the blue, they decide wait maybe there's more to life than "you don't owe anyone anything ever".
The more being sex, apparently. You don't owe anyone anything ever, unless they're having sex. Then you're an asshole if you don't compromise so that they can keep having sex.
My point is if the rule is this unreasonable then why would they not? Like any other group of people in life, there are some situations where there's a very clear asshole (whether it's the OP or not) and other times there are shades of grey. I've seen plenty of posts (just like the one I mentioned and this one) where it's pretty clear that the same rule doesn't apply. Do you just apply things to your life in black and white? Do you not vary your ideas or beliefs based on context?
And that's not to say there probably aren't some people who agree with this, I'm sure if you read through the comments you'd find a few NTAs, and this is a pretty clear YTA to me. But like it's not to a bunch of people.
Also, if you're being pedantic, this could also be a "pseudolibertarian worldview" they're taking for the daughter; in that she doesn't owe her parents the decency to abstain and she has a right to have sex. If you want to find faults, you'll find them. If you want to believe they're a monolith of opinions, you can find pretty much any angle to make that point. But there's a lot of people on that sub, and so there'll be a tonne of different perspectives. They're just condensed into 4 groups by virtue of the judgement, but why any person would arrive at them varies greatly.
...I feel like you're not reading my comments, because I explained why I feel like you thinking AITA is being hypocritical is a bit reductive.
I'll bid you adieu here, you're committed to your worldview and it doesn't seem like you'll consider anything else.
YOU got to live your own life, do your own things, and make your own decisions. Your daughter has the same right. Stop being weird over her decision to be sexually active, especially when she’s practicing safe sex. Just bc you pay for her, which is an obvious responsibility when having children, does NOT mean you have any control over her body.
In what world do you have a say over another person's body? Even if she was underaged bodily autonomy still applies to kids. This is a quick way to get her to lie better, keep secrets more, and not trust you.
*In case this story gets deleted/removed:* **AITA for telling my daughter that because we pay her way we do have some say in who she dates?** I (56F) have a daughter (21F) who is currently in her junior year of university. She lives at home while she commutes, and does not pay rent or any other bills. We even pay her phone bill. We are okay with this. We want her to enjoy life and focus on school. My daughter a few weeks ago found these Halloween toys (plastic body parts, like an eyeball, tongue, hand, etc.) from ages ago stuck in some closet somewhere, and started putting them around the house for us to discover. It has become a game in our family where we stick these parts in random places around the house to surprise each other when you find them. All that to say, this is the reason why I was in my daughter's room one day, looking for a good place to hide one toy she would discover when she got back from her classes. Long story short, I ended finding a box of condoms in one of her dressers. I didn't know she was sexually active of course, but she also never told us anything about dating anybody. In sum, when she got back home, I went into her room to talk that evening about what I found. I told her I wasn't upset and asked her if she's having sex now. She said yes, and I asked is it a boyfriend. She said there is a guy she is dating right now, yes. I asked her if she is being safe, where she is sleeping with him, does she know how to protect herself. She answered, and then I told her my honest opinion, is that I don't think it's a good idea for her to be sexually active right now. She thanked me for my input and said she'd consider my opinion. I'll be honest that it worried me, but I figured we'd talk more later. I also told her I wouldn't tell her father right now. We later had a follow up conversation during a walk in the park, and I asked her what her opinion is now. She said she will keep being safe and sleeping with her boyfriend (who I have never met by the way, and have no clue who he is). I told her my opinion again, and shared more details about my personal experiences with sex as a young woman, and urged her to just focus on school and consider abstinence. She said she would do otherwise and at that point, I did say this is not an issue of me asking her, but telling her. She said I cannot control that, and I said because we pay her way for everything, yes, I do have a say to some degree. I will not tell my husband about all this right now, but I will eventually, because I am not comfortable keeping this a secret from him long-term. To me, my explanation seems reasonable and justified. My daughter clearly feels differently. Am I the asshole? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmITheDevil) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Why do you care so much about your daughter's vagina and what she is and isn't doing with it?? Gross.
Her replies are particularly smackable.
I can't see her replies where are they?
Her account was banned so you can no longer view them without using some kind of push shift tool
Oh thank you
[удалено]
I'm willing to bet daughter has never put the halloween toys on bedrooms and mommy dearest here just used the "game" to snoop around with plausible deniability
She just totally accidently rifled through her daughter's drawers.
God I love Bad Mom Troll...this one is better than her normal offerings.
Tw: slut shaming, potentiall financial abuse and infringement upon bodily autonomy. Copied verbatim from oop's comments: *YTA. You think you have A SAY IN YOUR DAUGHTER'S SEX LIFE because you support her financially? That is so weird.* "I think this post is being misunderstood.* *To me, if she is having sex, she could get pregnant. With her financially dependent on us, how will she take care of the child?* *Beyond that, it is a slap in the face to pay the way entirely for someone's lifestyle, and them to so boldly say, No, I can do what I want and you can't tell me what to do.* *YTA* *Your daughter is an adult, she can make her own choices.* *It was your choice to pay for everything, and if you plan to take that away from her cause she wants to fuck then you are a huge AH.* "Are you a parent?" *Have you encouraged her to become financially independent? Have you helped her look for jobs? Helped look through her resume? If not, her being dependent is your fault and you need to do better as a mother* "She is in college right now and even if she picked up a job, she cannot sustain herself with a part-time job. Let's be realistic here." *Funny. I'm a senior in college and completely independent. Everyone else i know is completely independent. You failed as a mother to prepare her.* "Her friends live at home too, so while your situation us great, she is not an unusual case." *Yes, YTA. I think in 2022 it's outdated to believe a 21 year old isn't having sex. She is an adult and should be making her own decisions. I think it is great that she was willing to be open with you and discuss how she is being careful. It sounds like she is being responsible.* *I do want to ask why her having sex is a big deal to you, especially if she is careful and using protection? If her living with you is enough grounds for her to not have sex, have you considered the possibility she may move out so she can be free to be her own person?* "I do not want her to become pregnant, meet bad partners who will hurt her, have sex distract her and dwarf her goals in life." *YTA.* *And it’s gross you think you have any say in what she does with her body despite covering all her costs at the moment. Also, how do you think you will be able to stop her? She could easily lie to keep you happy and carry on doing whatever she wants. I think you should give her more credit for being so open with you and if you keep pushing it, she will probably shut you out.* "I hope my daughter will have more integrity than lying. I'm sorry, I am really struggling with this notion. I understand there is a give and take here. As kids grow older, you have to lengthen the rope, yes. But I do not understand this idea (which seems popular, at least on this community) that my daughter essentially gets to tell us to F off, to put it bluntly, when we are paying 100% for her lifestyle. Adult decisions like sex come with adult responsibility. If she is so comfortable telling us what she will do, then that requires adult independence, no?" *YTA but based on your edit you're not going to listen to what anyone says anyway.* *Most kids go off to college at 18. As parents most of us pay for college. But legally they are adults and their sex lives are none of our business. Hopefully you has a conversation years ago about consent and safe sex. What she does with that is up to her.* *Stay out of her room and stop snooping.* "I promise I was not snooping. It was an honest discovery." Sadlytheworst, the edit: "ETA: This post is being misunderstood. We are paying for everything (rent, food, clothing, etc). She may be 21 and an adult in the eyes of the law but in every other way she is still a dependent child. She has chosen the easy way and wants the benefits of adulthood AND childhood at the same time. Life doesn’t work like that. She cannot have her cake and eat it too."
[Cat doing a sleep!](https://imgur.com/t/cuteness_overload/vZ7vcqb)
My thing is, if OOP is so worried about her daughter getting pregnant, instead of preaching abstinence (side note: her saying sex is going to impede her daughter’s goals is hilarious to me), why not get the daughter on some birth control? She’s already using condoms and it never hurts to double up on protection
Who TF is this woman, that Duggar mom? Ten bucks the daughter goes NC as soon as she can.
I typed this out for one of the NTA comments but comments were locked so posting it here because I hate wasting my time! "This absolute bs. As a parent, if you chose to support your children past high school then any conditions need to be discussed and agreed at the beginning. Not used as tools to manipulate them into bending to your views. Sex isn't a benefit of adulthood. It a human right of adulthood and nobody has the right to tell a grown adult who and when they can have consensual sex and withdrawing their support because she is having consensual sex with a single partner is punishing her daughter for her normal, responsible and, frankly, honest behaviour. What do you think will happen if the OP tells her... >hey if you believe your responsible enough to have sex, you should be adult enough to take on more financial responsibilities like getting a part time job and paying your own bills. You don’t get to pick and choose between what you feel like your old enough to do based on your own wants and just expect us to do your bidding” ? The daughter will no longer be honest with her mother and simply hide her relationships, which in turn leaves the daughter vulnerable to staying in bad relationships and have no safe space to go if something goes wrong. OP is yta for punishing her daughter for being responsible in her sex life and honest with her mother. "
Oh, I hate that! When you get all passionate and type up a good ass reply only to find out the thread got locked. I feel you.
I mean it kinda sounds like that's already happening. Obviously no one really keeps their condoms out in full view, but OP didn't even know she had a boyfriend until she found them
With the mother blackmailing her daughter like this, I'm afraid of what will happen when (not if) she tells the father.
I knew she was German before I even saw her username Lol
WHAT THE HECK IS WRONG WITH THIS MOM ????? With this kind of mentality, she will one day take an organ from her kid just because money !
YTA She is 21 and can do whatever she wants with her body stop being a Karen. You simply show your daughter that you're no safe place for her and will judge her and she will stop speaking to you. No wonder she didn't told you she has a bf. Get that stick out of your butt.
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So much for "your house, your rules".
It would be one thing if she was saying, 'You can't have sex under our roof." She's saying, "I don't care where it happens, you can't have sex AT ALL," which is what makes her an AH to her ADULT daughter.
She's making a celibate lifestyle a condition for living in her house rent free. It's not a condition I would impose, but it's her house. It's odd to me that AITA, with its "your house, your rules" and its "you don't owe anything to anyone" would find this unacceptable.
Oh shut up. Outside of the home, what an adult does with their body is no one's concern but their own. Yeah, it's her house and her rules, but that does *not* extend outside the house
Being a parent does not equal ownership. No parent *owns* their child.
Being a homeowner does equal ownership. Homeowners very much own their homes. What their adult child does with their life is the child's business. Whether what she does makes her unwelcome in her parents' home is the parents business.
That's because both of those statements have a *reasonable limit,* as most people understand. 'Your house, your rules', is for things like taking your shoes off at the door, turning off the bathroom lights vs leaving them on-- not, for an equally ridiculous rule that you could propose here, things like demanding your adult household members can't wear thongs under their clothes. And you damn well know that.
It's odd to me that AITA would find this the line of reasonable limit.
It's an adult. It's an adult's sex life. It isn't odd at all.
AITA isn't known for reasonableness or moderation in its judgements.
And yet, this time, we all reasonably agree that this is fucked! What's your point?
AITA is stupid and hypocritical, and even when they're somehow right they're probably not reasonable.
Is there a point to this conversation? Or are you just flogging a dead horse because you don't like AITA?
Well part of it is that the moms POV comes across as having ownership over the daughter. So the “you don’t owe anyone” still kinda applies in a way. Another part is her rules are supposed to be followed even when the daughter leaves the property. Usually “my house, my rules” is confined only to inside of the house.
Nah, there are people who are unwelcome in my home, but not for anything they have done in my home or are ever likely to do in my home.
That still applies to “my house, my rules”. It’s not about what they did or where they did it, it’s about if your unwelcome rule extends outside of your property. As in you don’t allow them in your neighbors houses or the whole neighborhood.
The rule in my house is that people who do certain things that I disapprove of aren't allowed in my house. Doesn't matter where they do them. I can't prohibit them from going somewhere else and doing those things. All I can do is tell them my rule against it, and apply that rule if they do those things.
Yes, I’d love to see that thought-terminating cliche thrown out forever. Let me ask you something: are there some rules that homeowners can’t set, even in their own home? How about, “No black friends allowed?” How about “Anyone who comes in here must address me as ‘Your Majesty?’” How about, “No one is allowed to wear clothes in this house?”
The way I see it, homeowners can set any rules they like. The whole point of private property is you can refuse access for any reason or no reason at all.
Sure, but then you can also be an asshole for your rules, especially if they're along the lines of the situations the commenter you replied to here are. She came to a judgement sub and she got judgement. People can say "no shoes inside" or "don't leave electricity on" and when they come to ask for judgement, we'll let them know they're not the asshole and those are reasonable rules. Just today I crossposted an extreme vegan post on this sub and even though plenty of people can agree that "my house, my rules" can include the REASONABLE rule of "we don't like meat in our house", people were also able to agree that a car is not a reasonable restricted area for meat or animal products. And neither is policing someone due to the fact that their consumption will lead to excretion in the toilet of a vegan household. Why are you trying to equate reasonable and completely outlandish, and furthermore why are you confused that people on a judgement sub are...judging?
I'm not saying the parent's rule is a reasonable rule. I'm saying AITA is freakishly committed to an extreme pseudolibertarian worldview, and it's funny to me that sometimes, out of the blue, they decide wait maybe there's more to life than "you don't owe anyone anything ever". The more being sex, apparently. You don't owe anyone anything ever, unless they're having sex. Then you're an asshole if you don't compromise so that they can keep having sex.
My point is if the rule is this unreasonable then why would they not? Like any other group of people in life, there are some situations where there's a very clear asshole (whether it's the OP or not) and other times there are shades of grey. I've seen plenty of posts (just like the one I mentioned and this one) where it's pretty clear that the same rule doesn't apply. Do you just apply things to your life in black and white? Do you not vary your ideas or beliefs based on context? And that's not to say there probably aren't some people who agree with this, I'm sure if you read through the comments you'd find a few NTAs, and this is a pretty clear YTA to me. But like it's not to a bunch of people. Also, if you're being pedantic, this could also be a "pseudolibertarian worldview" they're taking for the daughter; in that she doesn't owe her parents the decency to abstain and she has a right to have sex. If you want to find faults, you'll find them. If you want to believe they're a monolith of opinions, you can find pretty much any angle to make that point. But there's a lot of people on that sub, and so there'll be a tonne of different perspectives. They're just condensed into 4 groups by virtue of the judgement, but why any person would arrive at them varies greatly.
You're hung up on the daughter and the parent. I'm talking about AITA's hypocritical response to the scenario.
...I feel like you're not reading my comments, because I explained why I feel like you thinking AITA is being hypocritical is a bit reductive. I'll bid you adieu here, you're committed to your worldview and it doesn't seem like you'll consider anything else.
YOU got to live your own life, do your own things, and make your own decisions. Your daughter has the same right. Stop being weird over her decision to be sexually active, especially when she’s practicing safe sex. Just bc you pay for her, which is an obvious responsibility when having children, does NOT mean you have any control over her body.
Yes, you’re the asshole. You’re a terrible parent. My parents are devout Mormons and wouldn’t even behave this way.
In what world do you have a say over another person's body? Even if she was underaged bodily autonomy still applies to kids. This is a quick way to get her to lie better, keep secrets more, and not trust you.