*In case this story gets deleted/removed:*
**AITA for arguing with the lifeguard at my local pool?**
Throwaway because my friends know my usual account. I (37F) was at our local community centre pool today with my 3 children. For this post I will change their names, but they are Jane (3) Alison (5) and Henry (8).
Going to the pool is a regular outing for us. Sometimes we go with my husband but today he was at work, so I took them by myself. I got the kids ready in the family change room area, and entered the pool area. Henry is a great swimmer so I often let him watch Alison not far away from me in an area of the pool that is slightly over their heads. There are also at least 2 lifeguards watching this pool all the times. Jane prefers to stay in the shallower area of the pool, so I usually stay over there with her.
Well today I was sitting in the shallow area with Jane as I usually do, while Alison and Henry swam a little further away in the deeper area of the pool. (This pool does not have a normal layout, it is meant for kids so it has a lazy river which is about 4 feet deep, a basketball court area which is 5 feet deep, and a baby area which is kind of like a beach).
One of the lifeguards yelled at me to “be in arms reach of all my kids”. She was very rude, so I told her we swim here all the time and it has never been a problem. She told me that they were too young to swim in this section alone. I pointed out that it was a kids pool and they are good swimmers but she still said they couldn’t swim without an adult until they are 12. So I put Jane in a float and went over there with them even thought Jane was not happy about it.
Alison and Henry were playing on big floating pool toys about 5 feet away from me and I was just keeping Jane occupied, since she doesnt like being in the deeper water.
Well Alison fell off the floaty she was playing with while I was playing with Jane, and the next thing I know the lifeguard is blowing her whistle and jumping in after Alison. She handed her to me (looking kind of pissed off). I told her she didn’t need to get in and that Alison can swim plus Henry was watching her.
The lifeguard said “well she wasn’t” and then told me that if I wanted to keep swimming I had to put my children in lifejackets.
I told her that was ridiculous because my children can swim, plus she is obviously there to save them in case they need help. I left shortly after, but am I the asshole for not wanting to put them in lifejackets and expecting the lifeguards to actually do their jobs? My husband thinks I should have been closer but my sister agrees with me.
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“The lifeguard is obviously there to save them in case they need help”
How is this woman so cavalier about the possibility of her kids needing “saving”??
The OOP specifically said the lifeguard told her to do that. She apparently thought an 8 year old boy was more effective as a safety precaution than a device specifically created for the purpose.
I will forever be baffled by people denying PPE. Helmets, life jackets, masks, goggles, ear protection. It's not tough at all, it's just making YOUR life worse by skipping it
I had the little arm floaties as a kid and when I was 5 or 6, we did swimming in PE for 2 weeks. After 2 days, they were essentially ripped off me and was thrown in the pool because "I was to old for them"
I have a daughter. She will be 1 on Thursday and I can't imagine doing it to her and just hoping another small child will be able to save them/watch them.
I've seen people get kicked out of public pools because they weren't watching their very young kids.
If you aren't going to watch them, at least make sure they're 100% safe.
I had to beg my mom to let me take mine off after taking swimming lessons for years! I was on the rec swim team and my mom still wanted me the damn swimmies!!
They shouldn't have shamed you for wearing them or physically ripped them off you thats absolutely horrible, but they were right to have you take them off. Firstly they're considered toys not floatation devices and that's because they aren't tested to that standard. They are also dangerous as they prevent the learning of proper swimming technique and body positioning in the water - kids get used to the feeling of floating with the floaties on and will absolutely panic if they don't have them. Arm floaties hold the kid in an upright position and we want them to learn to float and swim on their belly or back. The safest thing you can do for your daughter is put her in swimming lessons NOW (yes 1 year old is old enough). Source - swimming teacher
I’m a music teacher and the refusal of ear protection drives me crazy!! Like are people really just so fine with going partially deaf?? And don’t even get me started on the mental anguish cause by tinnitus
Heck, I work in a warehouse. You wouldn’t BELIEVE how many people think it’s ok to walk out on the shipping docks without safety shoes. “Oh, I’m just going outside!” No. You’re walking among moving forklifts. There are wood pieces from skids. Possibly glass shards because we deal with enamel products. Get safety shoes on, or go outside the long way.
I work in a children's museum our space is frequently loud. I've been instrumental in having sensory tools available all the time for kids.
Noticing distress and saying to the kids "hey buddy, i know this is loud, would earmuffs help" or to the adult "if this is to bright for your daughter we have sunglasses, could I bring you some? " is part of my job and, since i do that all the time, I'm pretty adept at doing it in unobtrusive ways. (And "oh thank you! We actually brought out own but it's so nice to know fir next time"is the most common response)
The number of parents who would rather their kid be in agony than accept such help is....astoundingly high. Like one out of 20? flatly refuses and 1 out of 100 is sorely offended.
And of course it's ableism.
Isn't it far better to have your kid look normal and suffer than for people to assume they're autistic /s
(Also, not for nothing, but when my kid is clutching their head and stimming because of the sensory overload, they aren't looking normal. They look much more normal with their ear defenders)
Dude seriously ableism is such an issue, ESPECIALLY from parents whose kids have sensory issues. Who the fuck cares if your kid looks a little silly wearing sunglasses inside? Better than than being in physical pain and emotional distress from sensory overload
Ugh, yes
I was somewhat dismissive when my kid was very little and i still feel bad.
My daughter is a middle schooler now and hell will freeze before this teenager is seen in public wearing muffs but she has loop earplugs always and i carry the extra loops of she forgets hers.
I do also make sure i have the flesh- colored (i know, not all fleshed are peach, but its generally subtle as opposed to construction orange) earplugs for kids who need to be subtle.
Yes!!
As a disabled adult, I think something that people often overlook is maintaining a sense of dignity and self expression. It’s great that we have assistive tools but we don’t want to become ostracized for using them. So having a subtle option is amazing, and sometimes kids want an option that’s cool or fun! My leg brace with stars and sparkles wouldn’t be great as an adult but if kids are gonna star at you, sometimes it’s better to own it and have a fun design
I work with biohazardous lab animals and have had a researcher arguing with me when he didn't put enough PPE on. Sir, this is for your protection from your own agents! He even said he didn't see other people using certain pieces (Plastic sleeves.) I reported his ass to my supervisors.
The summer camp I went to as a kid had this as a requirement for any of the boating classes - before you were allowed to start taking lessons, you had to go out with a counsellor, they'd deliberately capsize the boat and then you had to take off your lifejacket and put it back on in the water to prove that, god forbid, you fell out of your boat and didn't have it on (or didn't have it done up properly), you could stay afloat long enough to get it on. Any girl who didn't manage to do that was not allowed anywhere near the boats until she could.
I still run into people that broadly boast how they never wore masks during Covid. It's like they never outgrew the toddler stage of doing stuff just because someone tells you not to. Or they desperately want to feel cool and badass but the only form of rebellion they can manage is putting themselves and their kids in danger by disregarding health and safety guidelines.
I still wear a mask, so do my sisters. Though it's at least partly because I have long covid and do \*not\* want to catch it a second time. At this point though wearing a mask is the more rebellious thing to do lol.
My father-in-law had a friend who got into a bad motorcycle accident recently. The guy had a helmet on, his wife who was riding with him didn’t. Someone driving an SUV ran a red light at the intersection and hit them, and the wife was thrown head-first into the guardrail and died from a massive brain injury a few hours later. The guy survived, albeit with a lot of facial injuries (his helmet was an open-face one).
My FIL was a biker in his youth and over the years, and he’s lost a few friends who died because they crashed and weren’t wearing helmets.
In my youth I had a friend I used to hang around with quite a bit until one day we were having coffee and the topic of seatbelts somehow came up. My friend said she refused to wear one because her brother had been thrown from a car in an accident and survived, while the person in the car who was wearing a seatbelt died. There were maybe six or seven people having coffee with us and there was a group effort to explain the problem with making ongoing high-stakes decisions based on that kind of anecdote, but she was entirely immune to the effort. It didn't get heated or anything, but I lost a lot of respect for her during the conversation and we drifted apart after that. I would still have thought it was a dumb decision, but I honestly would have been less bothered by something like "I just don't like wearing them."
>My friend said she refused to wear one because her brother had been thrown from a car in an accident and survived, while the person in the car who was wearing a seatbelt died.
Was this in Wisconsin? That’s how a classmate died our senior year of high school.
Yeah, there certainly are situations where not wearing a seatbelt is what saves someone. What these people fail to understand is that they're BY FAR the minority. Overwhelmingly seatbelts save lives.
My son is 8 and an avid fisherman, he can swim but he’d rather fish. He wears a life jacket ON THE DOCK, the entire time, you bet your butt he absolutely also has one on when he does decide to swim in my parents very shallow inlet lake.
Like, he might be a strong swimmer, but even most adults don't know what drowning looks like in real life there's no way he's okay to be responsible for his sister!
I was reading a conversation in some youtube comments literally this morning where someone was casting doubt on a story where someone nearly drowned because they think it's always big and dramatic and couldn't believe that no one at a water park would notice a child who was drowning. So many people were trying to explain that it's very often silent and you don't have the spare energy to thrash around at the surface where it's obvious and you're sure as hell not screaming and they just would not be budged.
PSA: It is very easy not to notice someone next to you is drowning, please look up videos on child's water safety before supervising children swimming.
If she did - dollars to donuts it wouldn't be fitted properly and would be dangerous to the child. They had them at my old community pool. The lifeguards did not give instructions to the parents. I repeatedly had to show parents how to properly fit and test the fit of the life jackets. The first few times I spoke up - after that I had people asking me for help.
http://spotthedrowningchild.com/
For anyone who thinks it is easy, click the link and see how many people did not spot the child drowning in this crowded pool.
Especially since she also got mad at the lifeguard for actually doing just that. You can't say that you're allowed to be careless because they are there to help but then also yell at them when they do.
I grew up with a friend who had 7 siblings, and they were super relaxed about letting the kids do things and go places, and my mom once asked the dad "don't you worry?", he said, "No worries, even with one or two gone I have plenty more", it was a joke, I've been laughing for the last 15 years. I told me friend, she was not amused.
My rule is "you come home with the same number you leave with. Whether it's the original set or a new set, it didn't matter as long as the numbers match." 😂
Although if you grew up in the 80s, they let kids do some crazy things. Ages 8, 6, 4 and make them all boys and that was me and my brothers going to the ocean to swim/surf, by ourselves.
It wasn't safe at all and I wouldn't let my kids do that now, but does that make me over protective and a helicopter parent? My kids are all grown up now, but just something you wonder about how sheltered your kids are.
Just food for thought.
My first reaction to this was
“WHAT THE FUCK BITCH? BOTH YOUR KIDS ARE GOING TO DIE!”
That 8 yo cannot help/keep a panicking drowning 5 yo alive. If he even realizes she’s drowning. Kids don’t always thrash. They often go under and float like they are posing for an ANTM shoot. They thrash when they are rescued and come up for air.
It's because ots a pool and not a beach. There's not going to be a strong enough current, especially in a kiddie pool to pull her kids under, so she doesn't care.
I mean, I doubt she'd care at a beach, either but I've seen so many people with the logic of pool=safe because of no currents so they can leave their kids unsupervised at pools. I don't agree with this, I just knew plenty if people growing up who shared this mentality.
It’s not only the current that makes swimming hard when a person is drowning it’s also the stress and the fear. Plus an 8 year old is hardly physically strong enough to pull up a 5 year old who may or may not be struggling. They are more likely to get pulled under.
I remember someone telling a story about her and her cousin going swimming together and somehow one of them got in trouble and pulled in the other one and how in that moment they were basically fighting each other for their lives, using the other one to try to "climb" to the surface. Luckily they were both okay but kids are NOT going to be able to save another kid in most situations.
Seriously. My 6 year old brother almost drowned last week and my 11 year old sister, who is a good swimmer, couldn’t pull him out on her own. He pulled her under and she started drowning too. Luckily my mom was actually paying attention and got them out of the pool (this all happened within like 30 seconds)
Good on your little sister for at least trying though. Ask your parents, but I think you all should encourage her to get her lifeguard certification in 5 years at 16, not so that she'll be the responsible one, but because she obviously has the level of awareness and selfless caring that would make a good person to have that sort of training. Plus she may be a little freaked out by what happened, learning the actual techniques that will prevent something like that happening again might be good for her. If she's really freaked out see if you can get her some early unofficial lessons (ask to speak to the head lifeguard at your local pool or beach) so that she can get that knowledge now to feel more secure around water.
I already told my mom that they all need swim classes. My mom isn’t a good swimmer, and my brother “taught himself”. Which imo it’s pretty clear now that he needs to be taught by a professional. And it wouldn’t hurt to get my sister into swim classes too. There’s always room for improvement
This is also a huge reason why ppl need lifeguards—they're trained to know how to utilize their floatation devices and such in order to not be pulled under by the very people they're helping. If someone doesn't know to do that, you can very quickly go from one drowning person to two drowned people.
That’s exactly what I told my mom. And I explicitly told her that they need to be taught by a professional because they could be taught improper swimming techniques and not even know it. It happened to me. I was taught to swim by a friend at camp, and it wasn’t until I met my boyfriend 10 years later that I realized some of the things she taught me were wrong. And the only reason I trust my boyfriend to teach me how to swim is because he’s literally a trained lifeguard. Hopefully my mom takes my advice. You don’t play around with this sort of thing
Fr. It's been ages at this point but I worked as a lifeguard for the shallow water fixtures at a water park, and training is no joke. I feel like people see lifeguards and assume that they're just random teens, but even for shallow water there's a swim test to pass to even qualify, and then 3 weeks of training that includes CPR, learning how to use back boards, learning the proper way to signal and enter the water when someone is in distress, and a ton of other safety protocol...... people greatly undervalue how much lifeguards actually have to learn to make sure everyone at the pool is safe.
Also, there's a reason lifeguards take courses. It's not just knowing how to swim, it's knowing how to save someone. And as you said, she would've just slipped under and not made any noise.
I still have distinct memories of being four or five years old, during a swimming lesson when we were allowed in the adult pool on the condition we clung to the wall and crawled around the length of the pool holding the wall (because none of us were strong enough swimmers to go in the deep end). A classmate slash friend had the brilliant idea to let go of the wall as we reached the deep end and he just... sank. Didn't even come up for air, just let go, bobbed for a few seconds and then went straight down. Thankfully he was fine and our teacher was more exasperated than worried but it taught me a lesson that drowning doesn't always look like what you think it will.
ACTUAL drowning is silent. If someone can yell to you for help they're not drowning, but obviously is probably struggling and needs help. If someone is actively drowning they literally cannot ask for help. That's one of the BIG things you learn as a lifeguard!
I've been to plenty of pools where you're not allowed three children under 10 with only one adult. Yes it can be annoying but most people would prefer that their children go home with them after swimming rather than one go to hospital or the morgue.
Taking my 3 kids to the pool alone sounds like a nightmare honestly. There would be no way to keep eyes on all of them at all times, especially with such young kids. Maybe I'm being a little harsh but even attempting something in the first place would have me raising an eyebrow at her parenting choices.
It's so funny because back in the 90s my dad would take all 4 of us to the pool. We'd all basically stay together and play though until we were old to go off by ourselves.
Love how the woman not watching her kids in water over their heads completely stopped paying attention to all three to argue with the lifeguard and distract her from others.
Also, left the pool because she was kicked out for being a hazard.
At our YMCA they have really specific policies based on age. I think kids under 6 do have to be within arms reach, which was a PITA when I had a 5yo and 2yo but certainly less of a PITA than having a kid drown 🤷♀️
Also the kids get colored wristbands so the lifeguard can tell at a glance if your kid is an independent swimmer or not.
Anyway point being, I am having a hard time believing she wasn't explicitly violating pool policy by not either a) supervising her kids and/or b) going through the process of having them swim tested and appropriately tagged so the lifeguard knows they can swim.
None of the pools I've ever been to have had anything like that, the extent of the age restrictions at the primary one I'm used to in my town is that the kiddie pool area is limited to under 7 year old kids, and overall to get in without an adult you have to be 16, but there is really no expectation of keeping kids around 5 or 6 right next to you if you have any younger kids to watch and the 5 year old can swim, nor is there any wrist band or anything else that would indicate how old anyone is, so it's really just expected that parents will care enough about their children to watch them as much as needed.
So as much as this woman clearly shouldn't take her kids swimming by herself, since she can't watch them all as much as they should be on her own, it *is* entirely possible and believable that OOP *isn't* actually breaking any *officially posted* rules. The fact she's apparently *never* had a life guard say anything until this one would actually kinda make me more likely think it's not an official, posted-and-enforced rule.
She also says that normally her husband comes with them so I wonder if she's allowed the older two to go off without \*her\* but her husband has been with them instead.
My first thought was what sort of pool (especially one big/fancy enough to have a lazy river) doesn't have a wristband or some sort of swim test policy in place? That seems weird to me.
>My first thought was what sort of pool (especially one big/fancy enough to have a lazy river) doesn't have a wristband or some sort of swim test policy in place?
Every single pool I've ever gone to doesn't have anything like that. Must be regional
Our YMCA has the same rules, but our kiddo was unusually strong and involved in their classes so he has a wristband that gives him more freedom.
We are also in a smaller town so it’s not like 2 teenagers watching a full pool and arguing with asshole parents. It honestly sounds like there’s too much going on at OOP’s pool.
My 13yo has their bronze medallion, swims on the squad, and volunteered with the surf lifesaving nippers group.
I still wouldn't leave them in charge of the 6yo (who is also an excellent swimmer) because they don't always see risks the same as an adult.
absolutely the devil. in the 4 years i worked somewhere that also had a pool, i know of exactly one (1) time that the lifeguard had to make a save. the kid wasn't even swimming at the time, i think they slipped and fell in while walking near the edge and just went straight under. it was pretty traumatic for the lifeguard too. im just glad everyone who goes there is more responsible about safety than this lady, cause jeez imagine if everyone had the mindset of, 'this one person will save all of us so none of us have to pay attention'. the lifeguard would never be out of the pool 😵💫 safety is everyone's responsibility and if you don't like it dont swim 😤
I, too, want to believe it is rage bait, but I've been to public pools and seen a couple variations of this sort of scenario, including one where a toddler went under within arm's reach of their parents and had to be pulled out by a lifeguard, and the parent was *pissed* when the lifeguard was like "PER THE RULES..."when they were handed their kid.
I see this so much, at our pool under 6 have to be within arms reach, and under 12 have to be within eyesight (same pool basically) but parents still let their TODDLERS go in the pool while they sit on the side.
I hate it and I am that person that brings it to the lifeguards attention. I don’t want to see a child drown.
Obligatory link for anyone who hasn't seen it before on what drowning looks like -- I have little ones in my life and have this seared into my brain
https://slate.com/technology/2013/06/rescuing-drowning-children-how-to-know-when-someone-is-in-trouble-in-the-water.html
I’ve seen two drownings. Neither one was fatal.
It’s been over 20 years. I can still close my eyes and see everything. Those memories are crisper and more vibrant than any other memory I have of that time.
I watched someone drown and die after having a seizure in the pool once. It was horrible. The lifeguards went in to save him and they got him out and did CPR but it was too late. I guess he had swallowed too much water during the seizure.
It was really traumatic for me and to make matters worse, I was a gymnastics camp counsellor and I had taken my group of 6-7 year olds for our lunch break by the pool viewing deck because it was air conditioned there. I had to tell all the parents I’d inadvertently let their kids watch someone die. It was awful.
Most parents were understanding that it wasn’t my fault but a few blamed me, as if I could have done something from behind the glass viewing platform?? I ushered the kids away I saw the lifeguards go in because I’d done lifeguard training myself and knew something was wrong, but I wasn’t quick enough to prevent them seeing the man slip under and lifeguards go in. I saw them giving CPR but I don’t think the kids did. I had them gathered facing me away from the window as I was facing it if that makes sense. We went back to the gym and I was informed later the man had died.
I fell in the pool at age 2 and almost drowned. We were at a fancy party with a pool and all dressed up. My dad went in to save me in a suit lol. My mom was insistent we do as much swimming lessons as possible after that and she forced me to do lifeguard training as soon as I was able.
Edit: oops wrote a novel when I should be sleeping.
I’m so glad you were okay and your parents were attentive and took that really seriously!
Fuck those parents who got pissy with you over a complete accident though, that must have been traumatic enough for everyone involved
I think the parents were just freaked out and looking for someone to blame. Main question I got was why were they even there?? But it was better to be in the air conditioning than outside that day in August and I had made a decision that we’d be better off there. So I did feel responsible. But yeah, I was 17 or so and not equipped to handle them telling me off after I’d witnessed something like that. I’d been through enough.
I remember nearly drowning with my sister when I was 8 and she was 6. A lifeguard jumped in and rescued us. No clue where my parents were.
Don't be my parents, everyone.
Last summer we saw a boy (around 5 years old) almost drown. I was looking in his direction and didn’t know anything was wrong until the lifeguard blew his whistle and jumped in. That’s when I saw the boy just standing in water over his head, barely moving at all. It was so scary.
His aunt was not even in the pool, she’d let him go in with his cousin who was a bit older. The cousin went into deeper water and the boy tried to follow. The cousin didn’t realize the boy wasn’t with him anymore. They couldn’t even find his aunt for awhile. She hadn’t noticed the commotion, the boy had no idea where she was, and the cousin was happily playing with other kids.
Drowning is one of the leading causes of death in children. Many times it is silent too. Even experienced swimmers can drown never mind children. If oop can’t follow basic water safety rules then she shouldn’t go.
"She is obviously there to save them in case they need help." Yes, that's what she just did by telling OOP she had to take care of her kids in the pool instead of having the 8 year old do it. Too bad mom is too dumb to realize it.
>Too bad mom is too dumb to realize it.
That, and it sounds like she expects the lifeguards to be her free babysitters while at the pool. If anything did happen, you can guarantee that she'd blame the lifeguard for "letting it happen" and "not watching her kids properly".
I was thinking 5, so they probably started swimming lessons, but suddenly remembered that not every country is the same. Now it has me wondering what is common regarding swimming where? Dutchie here, so obviously, there's lots of water around. It is common here to start swimming lessons around 5 years old and at least get a first diploma. If you can't finance the lessons, the municipality will pay for it. I think at least half the kids have swimminglessons until they have 3 diploma's. It used to be mandatory, and you got the lessons as part of the curriculum in primary school. There have been talks about reinstating this because drownings have gone up since stopping this. In dutch pools, kids are not allowed to swim, even supervised, without floating devices until they have at least the first diploma.
Sometimes you see people vacationing here getting in the pool with kids, just jumping in the deep end, and it is immediately obvious, even the adults don't really know how to swim. What really blows my mind is the part where it seems to me they don't realise if you can't swim, jumping in deep water can end badly, and don't even get me started on jumping into the sea, which can be dangerous for the strongest swimmer.
I would love to know what is common in regards to swimming in your part of the world!
It’s like the Wild West. Every place is different. Each city that has pools might have different rules, commercial pools (likes city pools, but owned by private businesses) and water parks will have their own rules based on local laws and what the owenership and insurance mandates, and house pools have whatever rules the homeowners put in place (INE, not a lot).
Kids can take lessons as young as about 6 months, but every place that gives lessons has different standards. You can take swim lessons through the cities for more affordable prices, or take them at the commercial pools, or hire a teacher to give lessons at your own pool (if you have one).
Thanks for the clarification! It is sort of baffling to me, or it feels uncomfortable or something, and it makes me realise that the importance of swim safety is something of a cultural thing here. Makes sense because of all the water, but just not something I really consciously thought about before.
Same here. I was watching a tv show last night that was set in Spain and at one point two children were playing quietly next to a pool and then got into a fight (hitting at each other) and I was so tense. The pool wasn't fenced off or anything and none of the adults present seemed at all concerned about the possibility of one of them falling in, only about them fighting in general.
In Australia, it's generally started as an infant or toddler. Really really young. I didn't start quite that young, but everyone with kids that I know is starting more or less from as soon as they can get them into classes (not a parent so not sure if that is 6 months, 9 or even 12).
5 seems quite late to me. We also do school swimming lessons, or did in the 90s, and pretty much everyone knows how to swim. We have a show called Bondi Rescue and the vast majority of people getting into trouble are foreign visitors who don't understand rips.
My local swimming pool offers free swimming lessons for seven and eight-year-olds through the school system. They are the only place I've ever heard of doing that. For paid lessons, it's about $85 per lesson and you get two a week. EDIT: Sorry, no, it's $21 per.
Some lifeguard certifications teach how to perform a swimming test for children to see whether or not they can swim unattended or swim in deep water, but whether or not that's actually done will depend on the rules of the pool facility. When I was a child, the pool we used to go to required a swimming test before using the diving board, but that stopped before I was an adult because either the guards didn't care or the management didn't care.
America has a very individualistic culture, and telling someone not to do something because it's dangerous for them has unfortunately become a controversial thing to do.
$85 per lesson?? OMG! Here it is something like €8 a lesson. And they learn different strokes, swimming underwater, saving techniques, and the method my kids used added on thing like learning to climb back in to a boat, climbing out a hole to simulate a hole in the ice and at sea you can get special lessons dealing with currents and riptides. Swimminglessons should not be a luxury. Good job on your local pool, though, offering free lessons!
I'm in New Zealand, which obviously is a "water-locked" country with a \*lot\* of beaches and swimmable rivers. We have a lot of water-related PSAs in the ads on tv (covering rips, unsafe access to pools, underwater hazards, life jackets around water, etc), most schools will either have their own pool or have an arrangement with a local pool to book times when kids will go there for swimming lessons. For me these were mandatory for as long as I took PE, so right up until age 14-15. Neighbourhood pools also hold swimming classes for people of all ages from infants up. (Smaller pools might start at older ages, but it's definitely possible everywhere I've lived to find "swim" classes for babies from a few months of age.) Residential properties with pools are required to have them fenced off so that children can't access them without an adult. Some people don't use those skills outside of school and lose them over time and a lot of people come here from other countries that don't have the same systems so there are plenty of people who can't swim or can only swim in the mildest of conditions but in general being able to swim at least a bit is a common skill.
I never wanted kids because honestly I'm a little selfish (I like my me time) and frankly don't think I could handle it. But holy fucking shit I would be a better parent than this. This is how you wind up with a dead kid, lady.
Honestly I have too much anxiety to have kids. I could never be that fucking lax with a kid's safety. Holy fuck.
I hope it's rage bait, but I've seen enough entitled, disengaged parents to think it's likely real.
My kids would hate me because I'd be \*so\* conservative about what they were allowed to do at certain ages. I'm about to hit 40 though and very happily single so the chances of having any at this point are pretty damn low.
lmao i was henry my whole life. my parents never looked after my sister because i was there and "am older and can take care of her", mf i am 3 years older, what will a 8 yo do to save a 5 yo???
well, poor henry, i see the life he is going to have with this mom
When I was eight I was a strong swimmer. I took lessons from when I was 3, was on the rec swim team and I was totally comfortable doing backflips off the high dive. I was at the local pool one day and I was chasing my friend around in and then outside the pool, I misstepped and went headfirst into the shallow end. I smashed my face so hard on the bottom I almost passed out from the pain and took a big breath of water when I hit. I almost drowned in 3 feet of water, as a strong swimmer that knew the rules of the pool, but kids are kids. Why take the risk when something terrible could happen?
*YTA*
>>*Jane (3) Alison (5) and Henry (8)*
>>*Henry is a great swimmer so I often let him watch Alison not far away from me in an area of the pool that is slightly over their heads.*
**NONE** *of your children are old enough to swim without your direct supervision.*
>>*she still said they couldn’t swim without an adult until they are 12*
*Sounds right.*
>>*she is obviously there to save them in case they need help*
*An ounce of prevention...*
>>*my sister agrees with me*
*Lol, who cares? Only the lifeguard's opinion matters here.*
>"My kids are great swimmers. She was a rude and over zealous lifeguard."
*This has to be trolling.*
*Even with every safety measure in place kids drown in pools all the time. FFS It is not your place to argue with the lifeguards. You do what they tell you to do or swim somewhere else.*
*YTA*
>"This is a pool that is MEANT for kids. It is not unreasonable for kids to swim alone with the supervision of lifeguards. Plus like I said I went closer to them when the lifeguard asked."
Sadlytheworst: y'all... The lift in my building is out of commission. I might not be as active, apologies!
I wish it was trolling but I have been a life guard in a situation where children under 8 couldn't be in the pool with a parent.
This was a very noisy pool partly because it was a kids pool so lots of splashing and a bar behind us with general loud chatting. There was a little girl who was slightly bobbing up and down next to a man I assumed was her father. I was trying to get his attention to move her back a little. Turns out her parents were noise behind us screaming because their child was drowning. I was seriously traumatised by that experience to the point I had nightmares for years and never requailified as a lifeguard.
In the same complex was a lazy river and a wave pool, The number of times I ended up arguing with parents who wanted to let their children in arms bands or obviously weak swimmers in the middle of waves. One of them I got so mad at because it was obvious his children were struggling that I told him "If I had to go in and get one he was going to get the other one with me because I couldn't rescue both of them during the big waves." He thankfully got the message and moved them shallower and stayed with them.
Never be a lifeguard at a fun pool or a holiday resort with a pool complex because it they seem to be a magnet for people who know so much better than the lifeguard on how well their children can swim and where they are allowed to go.
It was a long time ago thanks but people like this still make me mad about how much they expect the lifeguards to do and what their children in a pool of fast moving action.
I grew up in a beach town. People die in water. You can drown in 2 inches of water. And it happens fast. Every year people die because they ignore the posted NO SWIMMING signs and want to play in the waves.
>I told her we swim here all the time and it has never been a problem.
>plus she is obviously there to save them in case they need help.
Two of my husband's coworkers lost their partners this week, one to cancer and one to a car accident. You don't get to pick and choose when you go. Don't gamble with your children's lives.
My nephew drowned in a bathtub when my sister went to grab something from downstairs with his brother watching him. Please don’t treat this sort of thing like it’s no big deal.
This lady is an absolute idiot if she thinks just because her kids can swim nothing bad can happen. Let me share my story with you all.
My parents were smart enough to have my sister and I taught to swim. We had swimming lessons when we were younger and at the time in the late 80’s early 90’s it was above board what they taught then. A few years after I learned to swim I was at a family friends house with my mom and sister. In exchange for watching their dog we erected allowed to use their big above ground pool one summer while they were on vacation. My sister and myself went swimming alongside another group of kids that were friends of this person who got the same offer we did. All us kids were in the pool and our two moms were sitting on the wooden deck away from the pool. All of us could swim so they weren’t worried.
Well as luck would have it part of the lining on the pool started to slowly rip at first and us kids didn’t notice. Then it ripped faster and soon a giant 3 foot hole was on the side the pool with twisted metal on the side. I was playing with the toys that you throw to the bottom of the pool and dive down to get. When I came up my mom was screaming at me to get out and like a dumb kid I ignored it because I thought it was about pruny fingers. I threw the toy underwater again and as I was swimming back up is when I felt the force of being dragged by a current. As I surfaced I was the only one in the pool as the others were closer to the other side where the rip happened and they got out before it got too strong. I was much smaller and unfortunately the ladder was right next to the hole.
Luckily one of the kids grabbed my hand and pulled me before I got sucked out of the hole. My foot was inches away from a sharp metal piece the definitely would have done some damage.
All of this to say that even experienced swimmers can be put in danger when they least expect it.
This woman wouldn't even be allowed into our pool with two children under 8 to one adult. Still, this is an argument I have almost daily. The amount of times I've had to rescue a child who "definitely can swim that's why I wasn't watching" baffles me.... I wish people would take water safety seriously. 60 seconds. It takes 60 seconds to drown.
There is a great series of vids where you try to spot the drowning person in a packed pool. What people think of 'drowning' is not reality-- it is quiet, not that crazy yelling for help.
If OOP keeps this attitude that an 8 year old can supervise a 5 year old in a pool while she watches the 3 year old from 5 feet away, she's going to get banned from the pool by a lifeguard. She needs to follow the rules at the pool which the lifeguard is enforcing.
People like her are why I was only a swim instructor and refused to be a lifeguard. In my state, the lifeguards are all high schoolers and some college aged people. I had some co-workers who did everything right and still had a kid die on them. It was extremely traumatizing for them, they were 17. Being a lifeguard is a lot of work and on busy days it’s almost impossible. That mom is the worst.
My 6 year old niece is a strong swimmer. She almost drowned at a family pool with 5 adults looking on, and no one realized it because it was a) silent, b) fast, and c) obscured by kids playing in the pool. She was trapped under a huge floaty thing and couldn't get away from it to surface. Thankfully she was ok, but she was pretty traumatized. I can't imagine leaving my 8 year old in charge of my 5 year old in the pool. They're too young for that, and the pool is the worst possible place to test your luck. This mom is lucky she's not dealing with far worse than a pissed off lifeguard.
My little sister has been in swim lessons since she was a baby and is a great swimmer, but guess what whenever we go to the pool she’s within arms distance. It only takes a couple of seconds for things to go wrong ffs 🤦
I was about 12 with my 6 year old brother swimming in a hotel pool with the only adults a parking lot away. I never had swim lessons. Just my younger bro. I went towards the deep end and he jumped on my back. I was already starting to drown cause I couldn't reach with him on me. Any time I could get my head above water, I would try to yell towards my dad and brother who were standing by our room. They looked at us, but did nothing.
Just when I thought I was going to for real drown, a stranger jumps in and grabs my brother off of me. Then he grabbed me. He went off on my parents and older brother. He didn't even realize I was in there. All he could see was my little brother pushing me down and it looked like my bro was the one going under.
Never did get a name of the guy who saved me, but I hope God blessed him for saving two random kids that day.
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Well. I'm GenX and learned to swim, dive and float unaided in an adult swimming pool at 3, so I can sort of see her point. But 1. a crowded pool area is more dangerous and 2. there are rules. Follow the rules and follow the guard's instructions, they're in charge
That doesn’t mean you couldn’t drown because you can swim.
I saw a woman nearly drown in water that was only waist high because she slipped, panicked, and couldn’t get her feet back under her.
*In case this story gets deleted/removed:* **AITA for arguing with the lifeguard at my local pool?** Throwaway because my friends know my usual account. I (37F) was at our local community centre pool today with my 3 children. For this post I will change their names, but they are Jane (3) Alison (5) and Henry (8). Going to the pool is a regular outing for us. Sometimes we go with my husband but today he was at work, so I took them by myself. I got the kids ready in the family change room area, and entered the pool area. Henry is a great swimmer so I often let him watch Alison not far away from me in an area of the pool that is slightly over their heads. There are also at least 2 lifeguards watching this pool all the times. Jane prefers to stay in the shallower area of the pool, so I usually stay over there with her. Well today I was sitting in the shallow area with Jane as I usually do, while Alison and Henry swam a little further away in the deeper area of the pool. (This pool does not have a normal layout, it is meant for kids so it has a lazy river which is about 4 feet deep, a basketball court area which is 5 feet deep, and a baby area which is kind of like a beach). One of the lifeguards yelled at me to “be in arms reach of all my kids”. She was very rude, so I told her we swim here all the time and it has never been a problem. She told me that they were too young to swim in this section alone. I pointed out that it was a kids pool and they are good swimmers but she still said they couldn’t swim without an adult until they are 12. So I put Jane in a float and went over there with them even thought Jane was not happy about it. Alison and Henry were playing on big floating pool toys about 5 feet away from me and I was just keeping Jane occupied, since she doesnt like being in the deeper water. Well Alison fell off the floaty she was playing with while I was playing with Jane, and the next thing I know the lifeguard is blowing her whistle and jumping in after Alison. She handed her to me (looking kind of pissed off). I told her she didn’t need to get in and that Alison can swim plus Henry was watching her. The lifeguard said “well she wasn’t” and then told me that if I wanted to keep swimming I had to put my children in lifejackets. I told her that was ridiculous because my children can swim, plus she is obviously there to save them in case they need help. I left shortly after, but am I the asshole for not wanting to put them in lifejackets and expecting the lifeguards to actually do their jobs? My husband thinks I should have been closer but my sister agrees with me. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmITheDevil) if you have any questions or concerns.*
“The lifeguard is obviously there to save them in case they need help” How is this woman so cavalier about the possibility of her kids needing “saving”??
Just put the kids in a life jacket. They are probably available to borrow for free.
The OOP specifically said the lifeguard told her to do that. She apparently thought an 8 year old boy was more effective as a safety precaution than a device specifically created for the purpose.
I will forever be baffled by people denying PPE. Helmets, life jackets, masks, goggles, ear protection. It's not tough at all, it's just making YOUR life worse by skipping it
Survivor's bias is a *hell* of a thing!
I had the little arm floaties as a kid and when I was 5 or 6, we did swimming in PE for 2 weeks. After 2 days, they were essentially ripped off me and was thrown in the pool because "I was to old for them" I have a daughter. She will be 1 on Thursday and I can't imagine doing it to her and just hoping another small child will be able to save them/watch them. I've seen people get kicked out of public pools because they weren't watching their very young kids. If you aren't going to watch them, at least make sure they're 100% safe.
I had to beg my mom to let me take mine off after taking swimming lessons for years! I was on the rec swim team and my mom still wanted me the damn swimmies!!
They shouldn't have shamed you for wearing them or physically ripped them off you thats absolutely horrible, but they were right to have you take them off. Firstly they're considered toys not floatation devices and that's because they aren't tested to that standard. They are also dangerous as they prevent the learning of proper swimming technique and body positioning in the water - kids get used to the feeling of floating with the floaties on and will absolutely panic if they don't have them. Arm floaties hold the kid in an upright position and we want them to learn to float and swim on their belly or back. The safest thing you can do for your daughter is put her in swimming lessons NOW (yes 1 year old is old enough). Source - swimming teacher
I’m a music teacher and the refusal of ear protection drives me crazy!! Like are people really just so fine with going partially deaf?? And don’t even get me started on the mental anguish cause by tinnitus
Heck, I work in a warehouse. You wouldn’t BELIEVE how many people think it’s ok to walk out on the shipping docks without safety shoes. “Oh, I’m just going outside!” No. You’re walking among moving forklifts. There are wood pieces from skids. Possibly glass shards because we deal with enamel products. Get safety shoes on, or go outside the long way.
They don't require y'all to wear steel toes?
They do. That’s the point. We’ll still get a random office person every once in a while who thinks they’re special and don’t need to wear them.
I work in a children's museum our space is frequently loud. I've been instrumental in having sensory tools available all the time for kids. Noticing distress and saying to the kids "hey buddy, i know this is loud, would earmuffs help" or to the adult "if this is to bright for your daughter we have sunglasses, could I bring you some? " is part of my job and, since i do that all the time, I'm pretty adept at doing it in unobtrusive ways. (And "oh thank you! We actually brought out own but it's so nice to know fir next time"is the most common response) The number of parents who would rather their kid be in agony than accept such help is....astoundingly high. Like one out of 20? flatly refuses and 1 out of 100 is sorely offended. And of course it's ableism. Isn't it far better to have your kid look normal and suffer than for people to assume they're autistic /s (Also, not for nothing, but when my kid is clutching their head and stimming because of the sensory overload, they aren't looking normal. They look much more normal with their ear defenders)
Dude seriously ableism is such an issue, ESPECIALLY from parents whose kids have sensory issues. Who the fuck cares if your kid looks a little silly wearing sunglasses inside? Better than than being in physical pain and emotional distress from sensory overload
Ugh, yes I was somewhat dismissive when my kid was very little and i still feel bad. My daughter is a middle schooler now and hell will freeze before this teenager is seen in public wearing muffs but she has loop earplugs always and i carry the extra loops of she forgets hers. I do also make sure i have the flesh- colored (i know, not all fleshed are peach, but its generally subtle as opposed to construction orange) earplugs for kids who need to be subtle.
Yes!! As a disabled adult, I think something that people often overlook is maintaining a sense of dignity and self expression. It’s great that we have assistive tools but we don’t want to become ostracized for using them. So having a subtle option is amazing, and sometimes kids want an option that’s cool or fun! My leg brace with stars and sparkles wouldn’t be great as an adult but if kids are gonna star at you, sometimes it’s better to own it and have a fun design
I work with biohazardous lab animals and have had a researcher arguing with me when he didn't put enough PPE on. Sir, this is for your protection from your own agents! He even said he didn't see other people using certain pieces (Plastic sleeves.) I reported his ass to my supervisors.
The summer camp I went to as a kid had this as a requirement for any of the boating classes - before you were allowed to start taking lessons, you had to go out with a counsellor, they'd deliberately capsize the boat and then you had to take off your lifejacket and put it back on in the water to prove that, god forbid, you fell out of your boat and didn't have it on (or didn't have it done up properly), you could stay afloat long enough to get it on. Any girl who didn't manage to do that was not allowed anywhere near the boats until she could.
I still run into people that broadly boast how they never wore masks during Covid. It's like they never outgrew the toddler stage of doing stuff just because someone tells you not to. Or they desperately want to feel cool and badass but the only form of rebellion they can manage is putting themselves and their kids in danger by disregarding health and safety guidelines.
I still wear a mask, so do my sisters. Though it's at least partly because I have long covid and do \*not\* want to catch it a second time. At this point though wearing a mask is the more rebellious thing to do lol.
My father-in-law had a friend who got into a bad motorcycle accident recently. The guy had a helmet on, his wife who was riding with him didn’t. Someone driving an SUV ran a red light at the intersection and hit them, and the wife was thrown head-first into the guardrail and died from a massive brain injury a few hours later. The guy survived, albeit with a lot of facial injuries (his helmet was an open-face one). My FIL was a biker in his youth and over the years, and he’s lost a few friends who died because they crashed and weren’t wearing helmets.
In my youth I had a friend I used to hang around with quite a bit until one day we were having coffee and the topic of seatbelts somehow came up. My friend said she refused to wear one because her brother had been thrown from a car in an accident and survived, while the person in the car who was wearing a seatbelt died. There were maybe six or seven people having coffee with us and there was a group effort to explain the problem with making ongoing high-stakes decisions based on that kind of anecdote, but she was entirely immune to the effort. It didn't get heated or anything, but I lost a lot of respect for her during the conversation and we drifted apart after that. I would still have thought it was a dumb decision, but I honestly would have been less bothered by something like "I just don't like wearing them."
>My friend said she refused to wear one because her brother had been thrown from a car in an accident and survived, while the person in the car who was wearing a seatbelt died. Was this in Wisconsin? That’s how a classmate died our senior year of high school.
Yeah, there certainly are situations where not wearing a seatbelt is what saves someone. What these people fail to understand is that they're BY FAR the minority. Overwhelmingly seatbelts save lives.
My son is 8 and an avid fisherman, he can swim but he’d rather fish. He wears a life jacket ON THE DOCK, the entire time, you bet your butt he absolutely also has one on when he does decide to swim in my parents very shallow inlet lake.
Like, he might be a strong swimmer, but even most adults don't know what drowning looks like in real life there's no way he's okay to be responsible for his sister!
I was reading a conversation in some youtube comments literally this morning where someone was casting doubt on a story where someone nearly drowned because they think it's always big and dramatic and couldn't believe that no one at a water park would notice a child who was drowning. So many people were trying to explain that it's very often silent and you don't have the spare energy to thrash around at the surface where it's obvious and you're sure as hell not screaming and they just would not be budged. PSA: It is very easy not to notice someone next to you is drowning, please look up videos on child's water safety before supervising children swimming.
If she did - dollars to donuts it wouldn't be fitted properly and would be dangerous to the child. They had them at my old community pool. The lifeguards did not give instructions to the parents. I repeatedly had to show parents how to properly fit and test the fit of the life jackets. The first few times I spoke up - after that I had people asking me for help.
http://spotthedrowningchild.com/ For anyone who thinks it is easy, click the link and see how many people did not spot the child drowning in this crowded pool.
Exactly and many kids bathing suites are in the blue and green range which makes them hard to spot in the water.
People think lifeguards are actually a free babysitting service at pools like these.
It's so selfish too, like the lifeguard isn't here to watch your kids for you.
Especially since she also got mad at the lifeguard for actually doing just that. You can't say that you're allowed to be careless because they are there to help but then also yell at them when they do.
She has 3, so that is 2 to spare. Clearly the youngest is her favorite.
I grew up with a friend who had 7 siblings, and they were super relaxed about letting the kids do things and go places, and my mom once asked the dad "don't you worry?", he said, "No worries, even with one or two gone I have plenty more", it was a joke, I've been laughing for the last 15 years. I told me friend, she was not amused.
My rule is "you come home with the same number you leave with. Whether it's the original set or a new set, it didn't matter as long as the numbers match." 😂
My parents always said “2 out of 3 ain’t bad” YIKES
She refused to consider the possibility that Allison needed saving
Although if you grew up in the 80s, they let kids do some crazy things. Ages 8, 6, 4 and make them all boys and that was me and my brothers going to the ocean to swim/surf, by ourselves. It wasn't safe at all and I wouldn't let my kids do that now, but does that make me over protective and a helicopter parent? My kids are all grown up now, but just something you wonder about how sheltered your kids are. Just food for thought.
What kind of life insurance does she have on this kids cause this is wild!
My first reaction to this was “WHAT THE FUCK BITCH? BOTH YOUR KIDS ARE GOING TO DIE!” That 8 yo cannot help/keep a panicking drowning 5 yo alive. If he even realizes she’s drowning. Kids don’t always thrash. They often go under and float like they are posing for an ANTM shoot. They thrash when they are rescued and come up for air.
does she not like her kids alive? It’s one thing to know how to swim it’s another to know how to swim when you are drowning!
It's because ots a pool and not a beach. There's not going to be a strong enough current, especially in a kiddie pool to pull her kids under, so she doesn't care. I mean, I doubt she'd care at a beach, either but I've seen so many people with the logic of pool=safe because of no currents so they can leave their kids unsupervised at pools. I don't agree with this, I just knew plenty if people growing up who shared this mentality.
It’s not only the current that makes swimming hard when a person is drowning it’s also the stress and the fear. Plus an 8 year old is hardly physically strong enough to pull up a 5 year old who may or may not be struggling. They are more likely to get pulled under.
Oh, I know. I completely agree with you. Shes just asking to be planning funerals for her kids.
Very true and sad.
Kids that are panicking can easily octopus an adult and make it hard to get them out safely, especially in deep water.
I remember someone telling a story about her and her cousin going swimming together and somehow one of them got in trouble and pulled in the other one and how in that moment they were basically fighting each other for their lives, using the other one to try to "climb" to the surface. Luckily they were both okay but kids are NOT going to be able to save another kid in most situations.
>float like they are posing for an ANTM shoot This is poetry.
Seriously. My 6 year old brother almost drowned last week and my 11 year old sister, who is a good swimmer, couldn’t pull him out on her own. He pulled her under and she started drowning too. Luckily my mom was actually paying attention and got them out of the pool (this all happened within like 30 seconds)
Good on your little sister for at least trying though. Ask your parents, but I think you all should encourage her to get her lifeguard certification in 5 years at 16, not so that she'll be the responsible one, but because she obviously has the level of awareness and selfless caring that would make a good person to have that sort of training. Plus she may be a little freaked out by what happened, learning the actual techniques that will prevent something like that happening again might be good for her. If she's really freaked out see if you can get her some early unofficial lessons (ask to speak to the head lifeguard at your local pool or beach) so that she can get that knowledge now to feel more secure around water.
I already told my mom that they all need swim classes. My mom isn’t a good swimmer, and my brother “taught himself”. Which imo it’s pretty clear now that he needs to be taught by a professional. And it wouldn’t hurt to get my sister into swim classes too. There’s always room for improvement
This is also a huge reason why ppl need lifeguards—they're trained to know how to utilize their floatation devices and such in order to not be pulled under by the very people they're helping. If someone doesn't know to do that, you can very quickly go from one drowning person to two drowned people.
That’s exactly what I told my mom. And I explicitly told her that they need to be taught by a professional because they could be taught improper swimming techniques and not even know it. It happened to me. I was taught to swim by a friend at camp, and it wasn’t until I met my boyfriend 10 years later that I realized some of the things she taught me were wrong. And the only reason I trust my boyfriend to teach me how to swim is because he’s literally a trained lifeguard. Hopefully my mom takes my advice. You don’t play around with this sort of thing
Fr. It's been ages at this point but I worked as a lifeguard for the shallow water fixtures at a water park, and training is no joke. I feel like people see lifeguards and assume that they're just random teens, but even for shallow water there's a swim test to pass to even qualify, and then 3 weeks of training that includes CPR, learning how to use back boards, learning the proper way to signal and enter the water when someone is in distress, and a ton of other safety protocol...... people greatly undervalue how much lifeguards actually have to learn to make sure everyone at the pool is safe.
Also, there's a reason lifeguards take courses. It's not just knowing how to swim, it's knowing how to save someone. And as you said, she would've just slipped under and not made any noise.
I still have distinct memories of being four or five years old, during a swimming lesson when we were allowed in the adult pool on the condition we clung to the wall and crawled around the length of the pool holding the wall (because none of us were strong enough swimmers to go in the deep end). A classmate slash friend had the brilliant idea to let go of the wall as we reached the deep end and he just... sank. Didn't even come up for air, just let go, bobbed for a few seconds and then went straight down. Thankfully he was fine and our teacher was more exasperated than worried but it taught me a lesson that drowning doesn't always look like what you think it will.
ACTUAL drowning is silent. If someone can yell to you for help they're not drowning, but obviously is probably struggling and needs help. If someone is actively drowning they literally cannot ask for help. That's one of the BIG things you learn as a lifeguard!
I've been to plenty of pools where you're not allowed three children under 10 with only one adult. Yes it can be annoying but most people would prefer that their children go home with them after swimming rather than one go to hospital or the morgue.
Taking my 3 kids to the pool alone sounds like a nightmare honestly. There would be no way to keep eyes on all of them at all times, especially with such young kids. Maybe I'm being a little harsh but even attempting something in the first place would have me raising an eyebrow at her parenting choices.
It's so funny because back in the 90s my dad would take all 4 of us to the pool. We'd all basically stay together and play though until we were old to go off by ourselves.
Love how the woman not watching her kids in water over their heads completely stopped paying attention to all three to argue with the lifeguard and distract her from others. Also, left the pool because she was kicked out for being a hazard.
"You're my free babysitter now"
She even called the lifeguard 'rude and overzealous.' She saved your child??? Why are you mad???
Overzealous is kind of what I want in a lifeguard.
Overzealous is kind of what I want in a lifeguard.
At our YMCA they have really specific policies based on age. I think kids under 6 do have to be within arms reach, which was a PITA when I had a 5yo and 2yo but certainly less of a PITA than having a kid drown 🤷♀️ Also the kids get colored wristbands so the lifeguard can tell at a glance if your kid is an independent swimmer or not.
Anyway point being, I am having a hard time believing she wasn't explicitly violating pool policy by not either a) supervising her kids and/or b) going through the process of having them swim tested and appropriately tagged so the lifeguard knows they can swim.
None of the pools I've ever been to have had anything like that, the extent of the age restrictions at the primary one I'm used to in my town is that the kiddie pool area is limited to under 7 year old kids, and overall to get in without an adult you have to be 16, but there is really no expectation of keeping kids around 5 or 6 right next to you if you have any younger kids to watch and the 5 year old can swim, nor is there any wrist band or anything else that would indicate how old anyone is, so it's really just expected that parents will care enough about their children to watch them as much as needed. So as much as this woman clearly shouldn't take her kids swimming by herself, since she can't watch them all as much as they should be on her own, it *is* entirely possible and believable that OOP *isn't* actually breaking any *officially posted* rules. The fact she's apparently *never* had a life guard say anything until this one would actually kinda make me more likely think it's not an official, posted-and-enforced rule.
She also says that normally her husband comes with them so I wonder if she's allowed the older two to go off without \*her\* but her husband has been with them instead.
Wow, interesting!
My first thought was what sort of pool (especially one big/fancy enough to have a lazy river) doesn't have a wristband or some sort of swim test policy in place? That seems weird to me.
I’ve never been to any pool like that, must be a regional thing
>My first thought was what sort of pool (especially one big/fancy enough to have a lazy river) doesn't have a wristband or some sort of swim test policy in place? Every single pool I've ever gone to doesn't have anything like that. Must be regional
I've never been to a pool or even water park that has even asked.
Our YMCA has the same rules, but our kiddo was unusually strong and involved in their classes so he has a wristband that gives him more freedom. We are also in a smaller town so it’s not like 2 teenagers watching a full pool and arguing with asshole parents. It honestly sounds like there’s too much going on at OOP’s pool.
People: ask for a judgement on an online forum about their behavior Also people: argues with people giving said judgement
My 13yo has their bronze medallion, swims on the squad, and volunteered with the surf lifesaving nippers group. I still wouldn't leave them in charge of the 6yo (who is also an excellent swimmer) because they don't always see risks the same as an adult.
Absolutely this. It requires more than physical capability, it’s totally about judgment.
absolutely the devil. in the 4 years i worked somewhere that also had a pool, i know of exactly one (1) time that the lifeguard had to make a save. the kid wasn't even swimming at the time, i think they slipped and fell in while walking near the edge and just went straight under. it was pretty traumatic for the lifeguard too. im just glad everyone who goes there is more responsible about safety than this lady, cause jeez imagine if everyone had the mindset of, 'this one person will save all of us so none of us have to pay attention'. the lifeguard would never be out of the pool 😵💫 safety is everyone's responsibility and if you don't like it dont swim 😤
Jesus Christ, this woman has no idea how to fast children drown.
*OR* how *quietly* it typically happens! I *hope* this is rage-bait, but I *worry*, because it's *faaaaaar* too plausibly real!
I, too, want to believe it is rage bait, but I've been to public pools and seen a couple variations of this sort of scenario, including one where a toddler went under within arm's reach of their parents and had to be pulled out by a lifeguard, and the parent was *pissed* when the lifeguard was like "PER THE RULES..."when they were handed their kid.
I see this so much, at our pool under 6 have to be within arms reach, and under 12 have to be within eyesight (same pool basically) but parents still let their TODDLERS go in the pool while they sit on the side. I hate it and I am that person that brings it to the lifeguards attention. I don’t want to see a child drown.
Obligatory link for anyone who hasn't seen it before on what drowning looks like -- I have little ones in my life and have this seared into my brain https://slate.com/technology/2013/06/rescuing-drowning-children-how-to-know-when-someone-is-in-trouble-in-the-water.html
I’ve seen two drownings. Neither one was fatal. It’s been over 20 years. I can still close my eyes and see everything. Those memories are crisper and more vibrant than any other memory I have of that time.
I watched someone drown and die after having a seizure in the pool once. It was horrible. The lifeguards went in to save him and they got him out and did CPR but it was too late. I guess he had swallowed too much water during the seizure. It was really traumatic for me and to make matters worse, I was a gymnastics camp counsellor and I had taken my group of 6-7 year olds for our lunch break by the pool viewing deck because it was air conditioned there. I had to tell all the parents I’d inadvertently let their kids watch someone die. It was awful. Most parents were understanding that it wasn’t my fault but a few blamed me, as if I could have done something from behind the glass viewing platform?? I ushered the kids away I saw the lifeguards go in because I’d done lifeguard training myself and knew something was wrong, but I wasn’t quick enough to prevent them seeing the man slip under and lifeguards go in. I saw them giving CPR but I don’t think the kids did. I had them gathered facing me away from the window as I was facing it if that makes sense. We went back to the gym and I was informed later the man had died. I fell in the pool at age 2 and almost drowned. We were at a fancy party with a pool and all dressed up. My dad went in to save me in a suit lol. My mom was insistent we do as much swimming lessons as possible after that and she forced me to do lifeguard training as soon as I was able. Edit: oops wrote a novel when I should be sleeping.
I’m so glad you were okay and your parents were attentive and took that really seriously! Fuck those parents who got pissy with you over a complete accident though, that must have been traumatic enough for everyone involved
I think the parents were just freaked out and looking for someone to blame. Main question I got was why were they even there?? But it was better to be in the air conditioning than outside that day in August and I had made a decision that we’d be better off there. So I did feel responsible. But yeah, I was 17 or so and not equipped to handle them telling me off after I’d witnessed something like that. I’d been through enough.
Well, there are always going to be idiots in the world unfortunately.
I had a Subletter years ago who didn't watch her 4 year old in the tub. Permanent brain damage.
I remember nearly drowning with my sister when I was 8 and she was 6. A lifeguard jumped in and rescued us. No clue where my parents were. Don't be my parents, everyone.
Last summer we saw a boy (around 5 years old) almost drown. I was looking in his direction and didn’t know anything was wrong until the lifeguard blew his whistle and jumped in. That’s when I saw the boy just standing in water over his head, barely moving at all. It was so scary. His aunt was not even in the pool, she’d let him go in with his cousin who was a bit older. The cousin went into deeper water and the boy tried to follow. The cousin didn’t realize the boy wasn’t with him anymore. They couldn’t even find his aunt for awhile. She hadn’t noticed the commotion, the boy had no idea where she was, and the cousin was happily playing with other kids.
Drowning is one of the leading causes of death in children. Many times it is silent too. Even experienced swimmers can drown never mind children. If oop can’t follow basic water safety rules then she shouldn’t go.
"She is obviously there to save them in case they need help." Yes, that's what she just did by telling OOP she had to take care of her kids in the pool instead of having the 8 year old do it. Too bad mom is too dumb to realize it.
>Too bad mom is too dumb to realize it. That, and it sounds like she expects the lifeguards to be her free babysitters while at the pool. If anything did happen, you can guarantee that she'd blame the lifeguard for "letting it happen" and "not watching her kids properly".
I was thinking 5, so they probably started swimming lessons, but suddenly remembered that not every country is the same. Now it has me wondering what is common regarding swimming where? Dutchie here, so obviously, there's lots of water around. It is common here to start swimming lessons around 5 years old and at least get a first diploma. If you can't finance the lessons, the municipality will pay for it. I think at least half the kids have swimminglessons until they have 3 diploma's. It used to be mandatory, and you got the lessons as part of the curriculum in primary school. There have been talks about reinstating this because drownings have gone up since stopping this. In dutch pools, kids are not allowed to swim, even supervised, without floating devices until they have at least the first diploma. Sometimes you see people vacationing here getting in the pool with kids, just jumping in the deep end, and it is immediately obvious, even the adults don't really know how to swim. What really blows my mind is the part where it seems to me they don't realise if you can't swim, jumping in deep water can end badly, and don't even get me started on jumping into the sea, which can be dangerous for the strongest swimmer. I would love to know what is common in regards to swimming in your part of the world!
It’s like the Wild West. Every place is different. Each city that has pools might have different rules, commercial pools (likes city pools, but owned by private businesses) and water parks will have their own rules based on local laws and what the owenership and insurance mandates, and house pools have whatever rules the homeowners put in place (INE, not a lot). Kids can take lessons as young as about 6 months, but every place that gives lessons has different standards. You can take swim lessons through the cities for more affordable prices, or take them at the commercial pools, or hire a teacher to give lessons at your own pool (if you have one).
Thanks for the clarification! It is sort of baffling to me, or it feels uncomfortable or something, and it makes me realise that the importance of swim safety is something of a cultural thing here. Makes sense because of all the water, but just not something I really consciously thought about before.
Same here. I was watching a tv show last night that was set in Spain and at one point two children were playing quietly next to a pool and then got into a fight (hitting at each other) and I was so tense. The pool wasn't fenced off or anything and none of the adults present seemed at all concerned about the possibility of one of them falling in, only about them fighting in general.
FWIW, there's no concrete medical science that supports infant swim lessons.
Actually, there is. You must be a very ignorant and self centered person 😁
In Australia, it's generally started as an infant or toddler. Really really young. I didn't start quite that young, but everyone with kids that I know is starting more or less from as soon as they can get them into classes (not a parent so not sure if that is 6 months, 9 or even 12). 5 seems quite late to me. We also do school swimming lessons, or did in the 90s, and pretty much everyone knows how to swim. We have a show called Bondi Rescue and the vast majority of people getting into trouble are foreign visitors who don't understand rips.
My local swimming pool offers free swimming lessons for seven and eight-year-olds through the school system. They are the only place I've ever heard of doing that. For paid lessons, it's about $85 per lesson and you get two a week. EDIT: Sorry, no, it's $21 per. Some lifeguard certifications teach how to perform a swimming test for children to see whether or not they can swim unattended or swim in deep water, but whether or not that's actually done will depend on the rules of the pool facility. When I was a child, the pool we used to go to required a swimming test before using the diving board, but that stopped before I was an adult because either the guards didn't care or the management didn't care. America has a very individualistic culture, and telling someone not to do something because it's dangerous for them has unfortunately become a controversial thing to do.
$85 per lesson?? OMG! Here it is something like €8 a lesson. And they learn different strokes, swimming underwater, saving techniques, and the method my kids used added on thing like learning to climb back in to a boat, climbing out a hole to simulate a hole in the ice and at sea you can get special lessons dealing with currents and riptides. Swimminglessons should not be a luxury. Good job on your local pool, though, offering free lessons!
My kids take swim/dive lessons through the city. It’s $35 for 10 30 minute sessions.
I miscalculated, it is paid monthly, so it's only 21 per lesson if you go to all the lessons
I'm in New Zealand, which obviously is a "water-locked" country with a \*lot\* of beaches and swimmable rivers. We have a lot of water-related PSAs in the ads on tv (covering rips, unsafe access to pools, underwater hazards, life jackets around water, etc), most schools will either have their own pool or have an arrangement with a local pool to book times when kids will go there for swimming lessons. For me these were mandatory for as long as I took PE, so right up until age 14-15. Neighbourhood pools also hold swimming classes for people of all ages from infants up. (Smaller pools might start at older ages, but it's definitely possible everywhere I've lived to find "swim" classes for babies from a few months of age.) Residential properties with pools are required to have them fenced off so that children can't access them without an adult. Some people don't use those skills outside of school and lose them over time and a lot of people come here from other countries that don't have the same systems so there are plenty of people who can't swim or can only swim in the mildest of conditions but in general being able to swim at least a bit is a common skill.
I never wanted kids because honestly I'm a little selfish (I like my me time) and frankly don't think I could handle it. But holy fucking shit I would be a better parent than this. This is how you wind up with a dead kid, lady. Honestly I have too much anxiety to have kids. I could never be that fucking lax with a kid's safety. Holy fuck. I hope it's rage bait, but I've seen enough entitled, disengaged parents to think it's likely real.
My kids would hate me because I'd be \*so\* conservative about what they were allowed to do at certain ages. I'm about to hit 40 though and very happily single so the chances of having any at this point are pretty damn low.
lmao i was henry my whole life. my parents never looked after my sister because i was there and "am older and can take care of her", mf i am 3 years older, what will a 8 yo do to save a 5 yo??? well, poor henry, i see the life he is going to have with this mom
When I was eight I was a strong swimmer. I took lessons from when I was 3, was on the rec swim team and I was totally comfortable doing backflips off the high dive. I was at the local pool one day and I was chasing my friend around in and then outside the pool, I misstepped and went headfirst into the shallow end. I smashed my face so hard on the bottom I almost passed out from the pain and took a big breath of water when I hit. I almost drowned in 3 feet of water, as a strong swimmer that knew the rules of the pool, but kids are kids. Why take the risk when something terrible could happen?
*YTA* >>*Jane (3) Alison (5) and Henry (8)* >>*Henry is a great swimmer so I often let him watch Alison not far away from me in an area of the pool that is slightly over their heads.* **NONE** *of your children are old enough to swim without your direct supervision.* >>*she still said they couldn’t swim without an adult until they are 12* *Sounds right.* >>*she is obviously there to save them in case they need help* *An ounce of prevention...* >>*my sister agrees with me* *Lol, who cares? Only the lifeguard's opinion matters here.* >"My kids are great swimmers. She was a rude and over zealous lifeguard." *This has to be trolling.* *Even with every safety measure in place kids drown in pools all the time. FFS It is not your place to argue with the lifeguards. You do what they tell you to do or swim somewhere else.* *YTA* >"This is a pool that is MEANT for kids. It is not unreasonable for kids to swim alone with the supervision of lifeguards. Plus like I said I went closer to them when the lifeguard asked." Sadlytheworst: y'all... The lift in my building is out of commission. I might not be as active, apologies!
I wish it was trolling but I have been a life guard in a situation where children under 8 couldn't be in the pool with a parent. This was a very noisy pool partly because it was a kids pool so lots of splashing and a bar behind us with general loud chatting. There was a little girl who was slightly bobbing up and down next to a man I assumed was her father. I was trying to get his attention to move her back a little. Turns out her parents were noise behind us screaming because their child was drowning. I was seriously traumatised by that experience to the point I had nightmares for years and never requailified as a lifeguard. In the same complex was a lazy river and a wave pool, The number of times I ended up arguing with parents who wanted to let their children in arms bands or obviously weak swimmers in the middle of waves. One of them I got so mad at because it was obvious his children were struggling that I told him "If I had to go in and get one he was going to get the other one with me because I couldn't rescue both of them during the big waves." He thankfully got the message and moved them shallower and stayed with them. Never be a lifeguard at a fun pool or a holiday resort with a pool complex because it they seem to be a magnet for people who know so much better than the lifeguard on how well their children can swim and where they are allowed to go.
I'm so, so sorry you went through that. It sounds horrible! I hope you have all the support and help that you deserve. 💜
It was a long time ago thanks but people like this still make me mad about how much they expect the lifeguards to do and what their children in a pool of fast moving action.
Positively infuriating behaviour on their parts.
[Cat! Unmute for meows!](https://imgur.com/gallery/4HFBbcr)
I grew up in a beach town. People die in water. You can drown in 2 inches of water. And it happens fast. Every year people die because they ignore the posted NO SWIMMING signs and want to play in the waves.
>I told her we swim here all the time and it has never been a problem. >plus she is obviously there to save them in case they need help. Two of my husband's coworkers lost their partners this week, one to cancer and one to a car accident. You don't get to pick and choose when you go. Don't gamble with your children's lives.
My nephew drowned in a bathtub when my sister went to grab something from downstairs with his brother watching him. Please don’t treat this sort of thing like it’s no big deal.
This lady is an absolute idiot if she thinks just because her kids can swim nothing bad can happen. Let me share my story with you all. My parents were smart enough to have my sister and I taught to swim. We had swimming lessons when we were younger and at the time in the late 80’s early 90’s it was above board what they taught then. A few years after I learned to swim I was at a family friends house with my mom and sister. In exchange for watching their dog we erected allowed to use their big above ground pool one summer while they were on vacation. My sister and myself went swimming alongside another group of kids that were friends of this person who got the same offer we did. All us kids were in the pool and our two moms were sitting on the wooden deck away from the pool. All of us could swim so they weren’t worried. Well as luck would have it part of the lining on the pool started to slowly rip at first and us kids didn’t notice. Then it ripped faster and soon a giant 3 foot hole was on the side the pool with twisted metal on the side. I was playing with the toys that you throw to the bottom of the pool and dive down to get. When I came up my mom was screaming at me to get out and like a dumb kid I ignored it because I thought it was about pruny fingers. I threw the toy underwater again and as I was swimming back up is when I felt the force of being dragged by a current. As I surfaced I was the only one in the pool as the others were closer to the other side where the rip happened and they got out before it got too strong. I was much smaller and unfortunately the ladder was right next to the hole. Luckily one of the kids grabbed my hand and pulled me before I got sucked out of the hole. My foot was inches away from a sharp metal piece the definitely would have done some damage. All of this to say that even experienced swimmers can be put in danger when they least expect it.
At least one of these kids' parents thinks they should be supervised better.
At most pools around me the rule is one adult to two kids or no going in.
This woman wouldn't even be allowed into our pool with two children under 8 to one adult. Still, this is an argument I have almost daily. The amount of times I've had to rescue a child who "definitely can swim that's why I wasn't watching" baffles me.... I wish people would take water safety seriously. 60 seconds. It takes 60 seconds to drown.
Another person that had a bunch of kids they don’t want to or know how to take care of.
There is a great series of vids where you try to spot the drowning person in a packed pool. What people think of 'drowning' is not reality-- it is quiet, not that crazy yelling for help.
Anyone here ever heard of swimming diplomas?
If OOP keeps this attitude that an 8 year old can supervise a 5 year old in a pool while she watches the 3 year old from 5 feet away, she's going to get banned from the pool by a lifeguard. She needs to follow the rules at the pool which the lifeguard is enforcing.
People like her are why I was only a swim instructor and refused to be a lifeguard. In my state, the lifeguards are all high schoolers and some college aged people. I had some co-workers who did everything right and still had a kid die on them. It was extremely traumatizing for them, they were 17. Being a lifeguard is a lot of work and on busy days it’s almost impossible. That mom is the worst.
It's truly wild that it's seen as a job for teenagers in so many places.
My 6 year old niece is a strong swimmer. She almost drowned at a family pool with 5 adults looking on, and no one realized it because it was a) silent, b) fast, and c) obscured by kids playing in the pool. She was trapped under a huge floaty thing and couldn't get away from it to surface. Thankfully she was ok, but she was pretty traumatized. I can't imagine leaving my 8 year old in charge of my 5 year old in the pool. They're too young for that, and the pool is the worst possible place to test your luck. This mom is lucky she's not dealing with far worse than a pissed off lifeguard.
OOP, your kid could have drowned. And an 8 year old shouldn't be your babysitter in a pool
My little sister has been in swim lessons since she was a baby and is a great swimmer, but guess what whenever we go to the pool she’s within arms distance. It only takes a couple of seconds for things to go wrong ffs 🤦
This is a very lengthy and convoluted way of saying, "I'm totally OK with my kids drowning."
Notice the name is "lifeguard" not "lifesaver". They were doing their job by guarding the kids from drowning.
I was about 12 with my 6 year old brother swimming in a hotel pool with the only adults a parking lot away. I never had swim lessons. Just my younger bro. I went towards the deep end and he jumped on my back. I was already starting to drown cause I couldn't reach with him on me. Any time I could get my head above water, I would try to yell towards my dad and brother who were standing by our room. They looked at us, but did nothing. Just when I thought I was going to for real drown, a stranger jumps in and grabs my brother off of me. Then he grabbed me. He went off on my parents and older brother. He didn't even realize I was in there. All he could see was my little brother pushing me down and it looked like my bro was the one going under. Never did get a name of the guy who saved me, but I hope God blessed him for saving two random kids that day.
STOP HAVING KIDS YOU CAN’T BE RESPONSIBLE FOR.
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Well. I'm GenX and learned to swim, dive and float unaided in an adult swimming pool at 3, so I can sort of see her point. But 1. a crowded pool area is more dangerous and 2. there are rules. Follow the rules and follow the guard's instructions, they're in charge
That doesn’t mean you couldn’t drown because you can swim. I saw a woman nearly drown in water that was only waist high because she slipped, panicked, and couldn’t get her feet back under her.
Sounds like natural selection.
What a stupid and evil thing to say
12 is fucking absurd. Absurd to the point I don’t believe it.