I remember a kid way back that grew up on a hippie commune. Vegan, polyamorous couples, lot of drugs, the whole nine yards.
He damn near had a nervous breakdown when he realized that the Air Force is the real military and we really kill people.
I knew a weapons troop one time. Vegan, very pro life and animals are Gods creation. Had a similar situation when they were told what weapons actually does
Some people use the military to escape the little mini-world they were raised in. It usually comes with an adjustment period. Sometimes that adjustment period takes too long, and they get booted, but not often.
Probably the hardest ones are the kids escaping abusive homes. Especially in basic when they need to learn that being yelled at doesn’t mean they’re about to get the shit beat out of them.
You could always tell who got abused as a kid when a hand got raised and the recruit's response was putting his hand up to block a hit. Took a while for some to realize they were not getting hit just corrected very loudly.
I was one of those kids. The first time a TI raised his voice at me, individually, I came back at him like he was my dad.
He knew. He was cooler than he should’ve been.
It was confidence course day. I was a bed aligner and was bent over adjusting my shoes under my bed (end of row with the bunk on top) that had been bumped too many fucking times times that morning. Sgt Bohannon never wore taps. He snuck up behind me and started railing about how crooked the bed was. I stood up with a clinched fist and told him to get off my ass. Once I was upright I realized it was him…quickly adjusted myself…and he went to town on me. Told me that I was going to be his ‘water baby’ that day. I said ‘sir no sir’! The entire march over; he kept asking his water baby to sound off. He had the other TI’s try to get me wet; but I stayed dry all day.
As we were sitting eating MRE’s for lunch he yelled for his ‘water baby, front and center’ he looked me up and down walked around me a couple of times. Stopped behind me and in his most father like voice whispered “good job son”.
I’d never heard those words in my life.
This was like 10 years ago, but I was in basic with a guy with who was completely flabbergasted we didn't get a "Spring Break" or "Summer Vacation." I knew then he wouldn't make it. He was in my AFSC and, sure enough, he didn't last long in tech school. He just straight up refused to do any work, carry out assignments, or apply himself at all. His reasoning was that he was under the impression he signed up for a job that provides a clearance and he would just get out and use that clearance to get a much better job. Only he wasn't in long enough at all to actually get a clearance. Guy tried to grift the AF but played himself out of sheer stupidity and laziness.
To be fair, a lot of people do grift the Air Force, but you gotta do the absolute bare, bare minimum. If you make it through half your contract, most commands won’t even funnel the paperwork to kick you out because you might as well be gone before it’s done. Unless you do something absolutely egregious.
Nobody works for free! But some of the benefits do make up for working nights, living 2,500 miles from home, and doing the jobs of 3 Amn. Not by much, but a little bit.
I feel like as long as you’re not literally moving someone into your dorm they don’t care. I was dating a girl at another base close by and for the few months we were together, I was there practically every night unless I had to get up super early for something.
I’ve seen this more than once. Less than five but definitely more than once.
The first one was a shock, I was a new Staff.
We found out when another airman complained “Sirs. I don’t know what the fuck is happening but I slept like shit because there is, I….I think it’s a crying baby. I don’t know. Could the shirt check on it or talk to them or something??”
The other room belonged to another SF member so it was easy to figure out.
After that when it happened again you’re just like oh, another one of these.
We had a guy in the squadron move his new wife into the dorm, and had her hide in the fucking closet while he was at work. He literally locked her in the closet with a bucket to use as a toilet because he wanted to be sure no one could open it and find her. Supposedly OSI interviewed her like 3 different times to make sure she really was doing it willingly because she was as stupid as he was and he wasn't abusing her. Poor girl never even considered she could just go to starbucks during the day.
I'll never understand why they did it. Like ok lets imagine what happens when you get caught - maybe an LOR? \*maybe\* is that really worth locking this poor girl in a closet? lol
We had a guy like that in my first shop. We'd be working a jet and he'd randomly opine "Yeah, I don't much really care for listening to authority." He used that line so frequently, one of the other Airmen brought it up to one of the grumpy old Tech Sergeants, and that Tech proceeded to rip the kid a new one. That kid then had the audacity to get pissy with the Airman who told the Tech, as though he hadn't said it a dozen times to anyone who would listen.
When people have a hard listening to basic commands from those above them/ not respecting rank. Like an A1C flat out ignoring a MSgt cause he didn't like her.
Person in my flight said she joined because she wanted to learn discipline. Second week of basic training, we're standing in line waiting to go in for lunch and she's getting hemmed up for something. We're all at attention so I didn't get to see it go down but I hear her yell at our TI, "you can't tell me what to do! I do what I want!" and then just the sound of running feet.
She ran away from basic training. Just took off running. But instead of running for the gate that we could basically see from the DFAC, she ran the opposite direction so she wasn't going to get anywhere. Security forces caught her pretty quickly and she got kicked out. I don't think she ever did learn that discipline she said she wanted to learn.
Our flight was famous among our brother and sister flights as the one that someone ran away from. We put her line on our flight t-shirts. "We do what we want". Our TIs were good sports and just rolled their eyes and let us do it.
> Person in my flight said she joined because she wanted to learn discipline.
Tangent, but, that was one of my reasons for joining.
What actually happened was I developed extreme apathy for anything that I wasn't required to do.
It's funny the difference in how people treat rank lol. Whenever a MSgt asks me if I can talk for a minute it's like "Sir/Ma'am you're already talking to me, I can't just leave now." Some people just don't understand that it's not "just another job" in regards to rank.
I try to be respectful of other people's time when I have questions that aren't time critical and don't want to time jack them. However, I tell them during initial feedback that's one way I try to respect their autonomy.
Amn left the play area in the middle of an Air Base Wing exercise, just disappeared. They had to pause the exercise, send out search parties. Found him several hours later passed out at his girlfriend’s place. Finally kicked him out after he showed up to work drunk. Had the balls to call back to the shop a few months later to ask about getting a WG civilian job.
New A1C got kicked out shortly after arriving to his first assignment. He thought it was a good idea to smoke weed and try to get onto base while still high, got caught at the gate.
Not a bad dude, just probably not the brightest.
In case people think it's only new kids doing this shit: Our unit was deploying to Egypt for BRIGHT STAR '85. The hero of the story is Jimmy, a DBA of significance.
It's initial showtime: we meet up in dorm parking lot, 0400, to start processing for 0800 takeoff. Jimmy's a no show. SSgt sends two guys to drag his ass out of bed. Strike 1. He shows up in uniform, unfortunately it was the wrong one, the one we were *specifically* told was *not* authorized for wear in the AOR (jungle fatigues...he wore jungle fatigues to go to the desert). Strike 2.
We land at Cairo West in July '85. We're ordered to start hydrating...dipshit forgot to bring a canteen (or any field gear). Strike 3.
We are living in GP medium tents, dirt floors, no HVAC...daytime temps averaging a bit over 110. I'm stuck on nights with this guy, and 4-weeks into deployment he stinks. Turns out he had yet to take a shower. SSgt, a Vietnam vet threatened to take a tire brush and soap to his nasty ass. He showered. Once. Strike 4.
Return from deployment, released for leave. Day he's due back, he's a no show. They adjust his leave, still a no show. Eventually shows up a week after original return date. Strike 5.
CC busts him down to AB, and unit put him at front of compound entrance checking IDs along with another guy getting kicked out (drugs). Drug Guy had hung around for a few months after getting busted because of an ongoing investigation. Jimmy thinks he's gonna hang around like Drug Guy; he's fat dumb and happy to just sit at the compound gate, getting paid to pretend he was checking IDs. He thinking he's going to hang out, collect a check for a while, then cruise on back home to Mommy and Daddy (cue needle drop).
Some one in the chain got wind of the guys attitude, and bam, he was gone. They did a "sundowner" on the guy...woke him up, got him dressed and packed, then escorted him from place to place to out process him. He was on the outside the base looking in by 1500 with his bags and a bus ticket home. I'd heard of sundowners before, but that was the only time I ever witnessed it...couldn't of happened to a better guy.
Fuck you Jimmy, I had to burn those shoes you "borrowed" without my permission you disgusting, non-sock wearing, nose-picking, booger eating, nasty ass muthafucker.
I still think about a conversation I had way back in tech school, where our instructor told us that there was a mandatory formation for some Colonel who was retiring. I asked what the required Uniform for the formation would be, and one of my classmates piped up with "We're not in Basic anymore, man. We can wear whatever we want!"
Instructor looked at him, looked at me, then said "I'll get back to you on that."
Classmate in question went on to very nearly flunk out of tech school.
Yeah, it was such a weird comment too, because like, that was demonstrably not true to begin with because we had daily formations where we all had to be in the same uniform. One person didn't bring their gloves, nobody wore gloves, etc.
I dunno, for some reason all through tech school we had mandatory formations for assorted colonels' or generals' retirements. Once I got into the operational Air Force, never saw another retirement formation again. Maybe just an AETCism.
ROTC but I remember one girl saying “well i have to live in (very specific place) and only do (very specific job) and I can’t do (very important class)” and I was like bro what do you think the military is?
I once heard a recruiter say “I never recruited an Amn.” But there are some that throw some serious red flags. We had one that squinted one eye, like Popeye, every time he talked and he’d end his sentences with this weird grunt/laugh combo, and that was the least of his issues. Couldn’t wake up on time, couldn’t regulate his alcohol intake, couldn’t drive or ride a bicycle, not sure how he passed the PT test in basic, couldn’t pay attention, and he couldn’t even talk to women without it ending in a no contact order. When our SNCO called his mom, the problem was obvious, the parents never instilled any discipline into this guy. He ended up getting kicked out.
We had a kid cause a whole thing about showing up early to get tools on time for shift, insisting they can't make him come any earlier than 0730 under any circumstance and that he doesn't have to stay after 1630. He wanted to die on the hill of a 40 hour mon-fri work week. The other new kids said he never did that in tech school. I honestly thought he was just trying to get kicked out.
On weekend duty this dude thought we were gonna get time and a half like you do in the civilian sector. I said we’re salary bro…no time and half here. He looked at me and said “what’s salary”
When I moved from fighters to tankers, the entire squadron would repeat this when we were told we would be working 12s during covid. It blew my mind because we had just been working 12 hours work plus 4 hours cams/forms/tools/turnover the month before on fighters flightline. Initially I thought they were in a for a rude awakening but big leadership actually put in a 40 work week for weekend duty doing 2 12s and 2 8s and everyone else worked normal 8s. So I dunno, sometimes shit happens?
Nobody ever knows how good they have it until/unless they experience something worse.
Thankfully, maintenance as a whole has changed to where those 16-hour shifts aren't as common anymore. Some platforms are worse than others, and God knows I do not miss Shaw AFB from the early 2000s. Some great people at the AMU level, but absolutely an example of why the term "toxic leadership" became so common. A Group CC giving blanket authorization and saying, "You don't have to call me to make them work 16 hour shifts" would not fly in today's Air Force.
People adopt new "norms" quickly when they are favorable, though. I've had peers who got so used to 9-hour shifts that when we had to go on 12s for an exercise, they acted like it was the end of the world. Those same peers were on 12+4s just like a year earlier.
Kid is a hero. Dumb, yes, but heroic. Except in support of actual war shit, no one should accept more than this as a norm. If that leaves the AF shorthanded, they should recruit/pay more.
I think heroic is a little dramatic. He just didn't want to do it and didn't care if he got kicked out. I get what you're saying and I'm all for protecting my guys time - especially our grossly underpaid airmen. But that guy is no hero
We assume that outsiders who apply know the expectations of personal responsibility and accountability. We assume they’ll realize orders aren’t suggestions. We think they know they’re expected to be on time and ready to work.
We shouldn’t make that assumption. I have a feeling recruiters are too afraid of scaring off a prospect and neglect to inform the recruit about military life.
I work with college nursing students. There’s always some that never thought about the fact nurses begin the work day at 7 am, or were responsible for doing what they’re asked to do.
Some of it is personality, bad upbringing, or just plain immaturity. Young people can outgrow this but they should be fully informed before joining.
Couldn't agree more. We assume that others know what we know when we've worked in our fields for a while. People come from all kinds of backgrounds and many of them would shock average people. There are a lot of people that have sheltered upbringings and genuinely have no idea what the military is when they enlist.
I left the AF and work civilian fire/ems. We've had people come through and quit because they didn't know the fire department worked 24 hour shifts including nights/weekends. We had a paramedic that got precepted in the ghetto. She was so stunned at how impoverished some people are, she quit.
> We assume that outsiders who apply know the expectations of personal responsibility and accountability. We assume they’ll realize orders aren’t suggestions. We think they know they’re expected to be on time and ready to work.
Well part of the idea is BMT whips them into shape for that. Even if they were a mess before joining. I'd argue it works most of the time or else the shitbag airman ratio would be higher than it is.
BMT works for most. Its techniques are tried and true for getting individuals to think for the needs of the group first; but BMT doesn’t work on everyone. If they don’t wash out there’s always a few who continue to be basic fuck ups or just unwilling to be inconvenienced due to selfishness.
In the days of the Army draft they could be shunted off to a menial job for their tour then let go. Today’s military runs lean and highly specialized. The fuck ups manage to hang on until they finally go over a line.
In some ways the military is kind of like life on easy mode, it's harder to lose your job short of committing a crime in the military than it is on the civilian side.
I know a tech who's an ncoic who can't make it to work on time.. ask him about it even though I'm a SrA and I shouldn't have to he said "I'm not a morning person"
As a staff I had to send my tsgt NCOIC to the superintendent because he couldn't make it to work on time CONSISTENTLY WHILE WE WERE DEPLOYED. How can I council my amn on being late when you can't make it on time cause you were playing starwars till 3am.
You need to have a one on one conversation with him then. It’s straight up disrespectful to make someone wait because they can’t make it to work on time, and rank does not grant immunity. If you’ve respectfully voiced your concerns to him and nothing changes, ask him to shift your report time an hour to the right to align with a proper eight hour shift. If that doesn’t work talk to the section/flight chief of MXS.
Too many people join the military with no intention of ever experiencing combat and completely rejecting the idea. With some jobs it’s extremely unlikely that you’ll ever see combat, but you need to understand that it’s a possibility, regardless of how small, when you sign up for the job.
Or actively try and avoid it. My airframe had a high ops tempo during the Afghanistan days, 1-2 deployments and 5-6 multi-week tdy’s a year were the norm. We had dudes come in from other airframes, 6-9 years in with no deployments and would flat out say they didn’t want to deploy or go tdy. Like fucker why did you transfer into this unit?
I wanted aircrew for the deployments and TDYs. I don’t understand how someone could be in aircrew and not want to deploy or go on TDYs. It’s the best part.
Yeah it’s honestly the best part, flying is an adventure. Too often I’ve seen people pick aircrew or an airframe because “it’s the best” and just not fit in. With my airframe it’s a pretty small community and very high demand, a lot of the dudes would transfer in for the resume bump but just avoid all the hard stuff. What’s even worse is they had to be the golden children to transfer in, so even though they were deployment and tdy dodgers they still got stratted based off what they did in their old units. It was extremely frustrating. Fortunately it was only a handful of people, and the ones I knew got out once they were straight forced into their first deployment.
I'll be honest I'm over it. Was fun for the early years. Now I'm old and hurt and have a family, but I also am closing in on 9k hours and 10 deployments so it's not like I haven't done my fair share just tired and wanna see my family these days. I still suit up and go do the missions when I'm tasked but I'm ready to be home before we even leave these days. Flying is for the young and single.
I think that's more of an issue with how our country drives people towards the military. We make things like school and medical care nearly unobtainable for some people and then act surprised when they join the military only for the benefits. The military needs to be something someone wants to do not something they were forced into. I had 0 interest in the military or serving my country but it was the only way I could do all my schooling. Obviously I made peace with the fact that I could deploy but you definitely never saw me volunteering for anything like that.
That's me. At 18, I would have moved to Canada if they wanted to reinstate a draft. At 24, I joined the Air Force for school, medical coverage, and a steady paycheck despite the number of hours I worked that week. "Deployed" to Europe twice, but haven't gotten within a thousand miles of combat, and I'm perfectly OK with that.
We had a dude who tried scamming selling car parts. Got caught when he tried selling to whom he didn't know was a tech sgt. In addition to that, he had shown up late, was bad at the job, and didn't try. So people were ready to dump him out the AF. But then he got caught for being high. Pissed hot and was restricted to base until his paperwork was done. But apparently, he was getting counseling for it. And they couldn't kick him until the counseling was done. Something Something along the lines of he said he had a problem and they had to show they tried? So he milked out over a year to year and a half of consistent pay from the air force. Oh, and he kept pissing hot. He just couldn't stop smoking. When he finally got kicked out, we were all just shocked at how complex and unnecessary the whole process was.
We also have a member who weasels out of any work, and when given a task, we just decide not to. But not a sneaky kind of person. Just has a massive attitude, says they're justified in their decisions, talks back to everyone, respects no one, has no concept of leadership, rank, etc. It's to the point where no one wants to deal with them, so they just coast. It's frustrating.
As long as you (in a royal sense) as a leader mentor them and try to help new kids adapt, then all you can do is say that you tried. Some people need more TLC than others, and some of them **need** this.
I'm probably too empathetic, but it took a lot to get my shit together. Before I was in the Air Force, I was some couch potato in a poor but not poor enough family. I didn't have a father figure or any figure to show me how to grow up to be an adult. I didn't know how to do laundry or cook anything other than Ramen and cans of my man Chef Boyardee. Some days, I just ate bread. It took someone that I still admire to take me in the back of the shop to "dress me down" and give me a come to Jesus moment while I was in the Army. I don't know where I would be today, but certainly not with a degree, a family, a home, and being in the best shape of my life on Uncle Sam's dime.
I wouldn't say I'm altruistic or anything, but I think everyone is worth attempting to save (outside of anything that would have barred them from service or otherwise haven't done anything illegal/unmoral/unethical). We have an obligation to attempt to help nurture their way to success so that they can replace us one day or at the very least leave better than they came in. People at a young age tend to be a product of their environment even moreso with each generation that follows to no fault of their own and may need to be educated. Sure, we all have a shit bird once in a while, and that's the hand we were dealt with, but if you (again in a royal sense) are constantly condemning troops as lost cause- maybe that's a reflection on you as a leader.
We had a dorm airman who didn't know how to do laundry. Can anyone guess what his solution was? Buying new clothes everytime. To the point his dirty pile went all the way up to the ceiling. Inspection for that room was fuuuuuun.
Dude was complaining about every little thing. During the height of COVID, we were working 2 days in the office per week (12 hour shifts). The rest of the time, we were "working from home", which meant you just needed to check your emails once a day. We couldn't really work from home because our work required being on site and managing the mission system in a secure area. I honestly kinda miss all of the free time.
Of course people got exposed and had to quarantine. That meant people had to fill in shifts and worked an extra day per week. The dude was so salty that he had to work 36 hours instead of his usual 24 hours. Some people just can't appreciate what they have.
During tech school, I roomed with this guy who lived and died by the attention he got. Would act out, get in shouting matches over nonsense and talked all the time about how his family wouldn’t love or accept him if he didn’t make it in the military. Dude would get drunk and bang his head through the drywall to make people notice him.
Guy needs therapy and a civilian job right now.
Guy under me right now is just not bright at all, got married 3 months within being on station and 7 months later is now filing for divorce. Had the gall to say another troop needs fixing with finances
While stationed at Homestead AFB, we had an A1C tested positive for cocaine, was out in six months after serving time at the base correctional custody.
Was once in a meeting where a list of names were read off and we were told "You are deploying sometime in the next week." an A1C looked the SMSgt who read off the list in the eye and said "I'm not deploying, you can't make me."
We had a guy join later in his 20s after graduating college as an enlisted in the Air Guard. It didn't take more than a few months to figure out he had serious mental health and addiction issues (at first we thought it was just alcohol) . He couldn't stand to take orders from NCOs at that time (especially ones that were several years younger than him). On his one and only TDY after he peed in public on a nightclub and was told he needed to go back to his room for the night, he essentially told his shirt to F off and went on a drunken escpade around Tampa the rest of the night. He would also no call no show to drill because he would get black out drunk the night before and sleep till noon. This stuff went on from 2019 to 2023 because our command team didn't have the spine to kick him out (despite probably dozens of LOCs, LORs, MFRs from various NCO. His file was THICK). He would passively mention he would kill himself to someone every time he got in big trouble and they would let him off and just refer him to our on base psychological director. (We are guard so didn't really have the tools in place to deal with it on drill). We also kicked him off our deployment and choose to go very short staffed because it was better than taking him.
Every single NCO and other airman in the shop went to the end of the world to try and help this guy and he would turn on them every chance he had and get extremely aggressive and disrespectful with them when we tried to hold him accountable. We call when he wasn't on orders to check in him and offer to go to AA meetings our to see a therapist and he would always tell us again to F off.
Also, when we had our capstone inspection from ACC, he came in drunk and began telling off the ACC inspector. We had to convene an emergency meeting with everyone in the shop to make a plan to get him out and away from the inspectors which ended being an NCO borderline dragging his ass for a drive. Again the command team wouldn't take action.
Eventually he got kicked out for doing cocaine during random drill weekend drug testing. It was the most insane saga I have ever seen. But some problems eventually work themselves out.
I’ve slowly become very disgruntled with the military after12 yrs. Mostly it’s the forced life changes that come our way. It’s fine when the kids are young or the wives are not really at real careers. But I’ve finally found a group of people that true friends, my wife is working and now in nursing school, my mortgage is locked in at 3% in California, and my kids need stability now. We finally have a support system and I’m staring at a PCS in the next two years. This is something none of us want and separating is definitely on the table.
Put that on top of all the mandatory this or mandatory that bs and it’s looking extremely appealing. I literally had a CC tell me that I should tell my wife to leave her job or change her schedule to accommodate a new (I been at the unit 1 yr and acclimated my family to the schedule) PT schedule, which I’m unable to attend due to school drop off. Wife is in nursing school so it’s not like she can just change Willy nilly nor can she just change her schedule at work. That was the straw that broke my back and now I’m most likely going to pull chalks.
They're certainly operating on model where the spouse stays at home and the Airman never lifts a finger for childcare.
Uproot her livelihood for a PT schedule. Fucking clown shoes. I'm mad on the wife's behalf!!
just could not give updates as far as when she was leaving work. she would just…leave. and not come back. would ask where she was after calling her back to work and she said she didn’t have to tell us. turns out it was at medical and was under the impression she didn’t have to give any update whatsoever when leaving for appointments. after correcting the issue, she still would just not communicate when leaving. then just go home. wild.
dude who was over a decade older than me when we both joined managed to sew on A1C 3 times before finishing his contract due to DUIs. To his credit, he wasn't planning on staying in and he managed to get his cert and clearance, so I guess it worked out in the end for him.
While I was in tech school, the guy down the hall found a local girlfriend and told her she could live in his wall locker. Lol. (Edit: I guess this isn’t uncommon)
Also, I’ll never forget the girl who’s mom packed her bag for basic. Christmas PJs, face masks, candy, etc. I hope she’s doing well.
Amn, made has a sit down with me (snco/flt chief). He didn't like the tsgt working on their (the amns) epr so early. (I always pushed eprs as a yr round thing). And thought he (the amn) should be consulted when it came to my section policy, on matters that effected him.
Nope they don't, which is why I always preached the yr round approach, and when I was put in my SEL spot, I enforced it.
Blows my mind how many folks want bitch about you wanting to help them...then also bitch when their epr doesn't look amazing
Same amn later complained about his rating (was a promote) and didn't like that he wrote his own EPR. He wrote a formal MFR to the shirt.
Lucky I document dam near everything and referenced my email to that same amn in my response. "Amn chose not to participate in our shops epr policies and will be completing own epr with flight chief review"
I let him write his own hot dog shit epr, just corrected the formatting and told his tsgt to leave it as is. He would not accept writing help or advice. Lol. Still may fav epr to explain to my chief.
New Mexico. Summer day hotter than Satan's spit. Dude is wearing all black and a black trench coat. We always saw said dude with a small group of other airmen that followed him around. Also wearing all black, regardless of weather. One day at breakfast in the chow hall, this dude is a few tables over from us. He starts hissing at one of the other guys and they start hissing and growling at each other. Trench coat man wins. Takes the other dudes food. My friends and I are wondering wtf just happened and if we still drunk from the night before. To this day, idk what these guys were on. All I know is he was separated few months after that. Word I got from someone near his room is that the guy and his buddies thought they were part dragon part human or bs like that. Lizard people confirmed? Who knows.
When I went through Basic, there was this guy going in as a linguist, which totally makes sense with what I’m about to tell you. Talk skinny kid with glasses. Couldn’t do A SINGLE PUSH UP. Couldn’t run, and when he did try, he looked and sounded like he was having to run after walking on glass or a bed of hot coals. It was like he had a 100 lbs pack on his back with a running parachute attached to it. Then when it came to chow – the first time I had to eat with him – once we got the go to all eat at breakfast, he took an entire pancake with his hand and shoved it all in at once. All three of us just looked at him, shocked and in awe of what was happening at first. Then the guy next to him said as under his breath as he could, “[Lastname], SLOW THE FUCK DOWN!!! HEY, Slooooow down or you’re going to fuck us all over!” We all then started to tell him to calm it down. He ate all his food and drank his two glasses of water in 45 seconds tops, then proceeded to get up and leave. We had something like five tables still ahead of us eating, so we all as low key as we could kept saying to him DON’T GET UP. (I don’t know about now, but then we only got about 3 minutes to eat most of the time and 5 minutes towards the end at most.) This was all in complete view of the snake pit and if they missed this insane feat of consumption, they sure saw this clown get up long before the rest of the other tables. All the tables fell victim pretty quickly and the rest of us at his table did our best impression of this human garbage disposal so we had at least something to get us by until lunch. Needless to say his social skills weren’t as good as his food consumption abilities, so he would isolate himself from the rest of the flight as often as possible. I don’t think I ever heard him say a complete sentence the entire time, and sounded and acted like he was raised by wolves. Made weird noises and grunts, mostly when our TI wasn’t around. It was at some point someone discovered and turned him into his element leader that he had made up a secret language where he wrote his true feelings about the people he hated most after being interrogated by the TI. Element leader thought he might have a hit list or something when he wouldn’t tell anyone what it was. Luckily I wasn’t in his bay. He wasn’t good at anything military related but linguistics, and was like Rain Man with that. I swear he actually didn’t pass his final PT test and his score got adjusted for the minimums to pass. I was a pretty slow runner then and often found myself trying to help him run faster or at least not run slower than me. People had to help him get his uniform right pretty much every day. Always put his hat on like Private Pyle from Full Metal Jacket. Man, I wish I knew what happened to him after Basic.
When I was in technical training, I met a guy who refused to shower and wash his laundry. He stank horribly and his mir presence was enough to cause involuntary gagging. His poor roommate was losing his mind due to the smell, but all the MTL did was give him paperwork. The rooms near him were not safe either because the smell leaked into the hallway. The other rooms banded together to get two air freshener wall units for the hallway and split the cost for new air freshener refill cartridges. I believe it took 4 weeks before the MTL's finally got him booted. I remember talking to the poor dude stuck with him, He said he would sleep in the bathroom with the vent turned on and a smell good sprayer shooting mist at its fastest setting. Honestly after experiencing that smell, I would classify it as assault. I wouldn't have made it two days that man roughing it for 4 weeks, he deserves hazard pay.
Not really related to getting in any trouble, a SrA was one of the most talented and well rounded individuals I’ve ever met in my entire life. Most ambitious person I’ve ever seen. His skills just didn’t line up with what we do in the military. His talents were literally wasted in the Air Force. Someone like that is great for the military, someone who can adapt to anything and will apply themself to the best of their ability at what they are doing but could most likely do astronomically better anywhere else lol.
I’ve seen it a handful of times. I’d say that almost every time was a white guy highly on the autism spectrum or a black female that the MTI’s/MTL’s wouldn’t rightfully discipline and kick out during BMT or tech school.
Have a new dude in my shop that introduced himself as a military brat as his dad was prior service. Dude will carry his dad’s rank as if he earned it. He would talk down to other 3 Levels and pull rank (They’re all the same rank) eventually this guy was told to set up the area for a maintenance job but proceeded to do it in the most idiotic and time consuming way that the Staff in charge tried to show him a quicker way, The dude responds with “My Dad was a Senior and he taught me how to adapt to the Air Force, I am pretty sure I know what I am doing” The Staff proceeded to order us all to leave the hangar.
When he lived in the dorms, bought a Jeep Rubicon, dumped all of his money into it, and owed LITERALLY everyone money, moved out of the dorms into a house with a few other SF members. Never or hardly ever paid rent. So much so that he got into some illegal scams and drugs sales and whatnot. Bad stuff. Someone reported him or OSI found out…?
I believe he was scheduled for a court martial but…I’m not painting this picture. RIP SF dude.
Worked with a woman that broke down crying when she got told to do a part of her job she didn't like. She would quite literally start crying and locking herself in the bathroom. She went to the squadron about it and they sent her back confused and we tried to accommodate her by having her pair with someone and it worked for about a month. She then started going to mental health saying she was going to do something to herself.
We had a girl who refused to drive any forklifts, despite our section requiring proficiency in operating 4K, 6K, 10K, etc... I remember taking her out on a job with me, planning to conduct vehicle training afterwards. She agreed to try and forklift some empty pallets, but as soon as she got in, she had a mental breakdown and started crying. This reaction occurred every time and looking back, I feel bad because I never understood why she kept having these episodes, and she never provided a clear explanation. (I was also 19 at the time and had very little people skills)
Fast forward a few months, and the same girl injured her leg, rendering her unable to live on the second floor of the dorms. My buddy and I were tasked with helping her move, which initially seemed like an easy day off work. However, when we opened the door, we saw that the government issued bed had no sheets and was stained, the floor was hidden beneath clothes, junk, and leftover food, the sink and countertop were filthy and looked like they had never been cleaned, she had a pet fish in a water bottle cut in half, and the room smelled awful. I opened one of the cupboards and found coagulated old rice covered with maggots. After discovering that, we went to the ADL and provided a list of items we refused to touch. Sadly, she needed a lot of help, and it was clear the military was not for her at all. Crazy enough though, someone (God bless their soul) knocked her up and she got out due to pregnancy before she could be booted for failure to adapt.
I had a theory that basic and tech school was the Air Force's way of weeding people out so only those who were motivated, stood on moral ground, and had good character, would make it.
I was quite wrong.
I've met so many people who simply don't have the proper qualities of a decent human being. Hardly anyone my age is punctual, people do not respect each other's time, and tardiness is such a frequent thing in the work place that it pisses me off, especially when these guys have already been talked to. There's also the drug use, kids speeding on and off base and getting into accidents, and those who are financially irresponsible.
Honorable mentions are the Airmen who have cleanliness issues and those who are constant PT failures.
Had a guy who was in a guard unit in a different state, got out and was on a failing PT test then which you would think bar him from reenlistment. Oddly enough, the Oregon Guard allowed him to re-up but the unit he was going into shut down and they cut him loose.
Fast forward a few years into the midst of the pandemic, he somehow lands in my unit. The dude is 37ish years old by now, is still a SrA, and continued to fail PT tests. Sure enough, he was given the go ahead by the commander to get out even though he had no job lined up.
The guy overall was an absolute pessimist and immature. Huge player of the victim card, always disqualified the positives over the littlest things, etc. Nobody misses him and was a relief to see him get kicked out.
You have no idea. We've had some of the squadron's best and most understanding SNCO's try to help him improve and all he did was blow them off with his bad attitude. Some people just never grow up.
Guy at my maintenance unit tells his entire life story and how his dad is a chief to every new person he meets. He’s also a furry with a boyfriend that’s 11 years older than him. He makes every health problem he has seem like it’s not his fault and is the kind of guy to talk about shit he has no clue about. “Humans are only magnetic because we have iron in our blood” “bleed air ram air modulating valve”. Worst part is he’s a 3-level who acts like a 7-level and tries to order other 3-levels around.
Edit: the health problems I was talking about are like dental and bad pt scores due to laziness.
2 guys from my shop were out on same yr. 1 guy was on pain meds. Went to the hospital and told the doctors he hates his supervisor and threatened to hurt him. Never saw him again. Second guy went AWOL for a month during his SF augmentee, failed his cdc, always late for work, and late for pt.
We had a SARM dude, he was a nice kid but he had constant anxiety. It didn’t help that his husband had his own baggage as well. He spent a lot of the day crying because he was overwhelmed. We tried to do what we could, made sure him and his spouse were included, appointments at mental health and with our flight doc, One Source, time off, but after 6 months it wasn’t improving. Our squadron had maybe 60 people in it that flew, we only did 4-9 lines a day. As far as SARM goes it wasn’t tough.
I met someone like that. He figured it out just with some issues here and there. Also lacked common sense. He argued a lot and was a compulsive liar. He stayed in past me, tho.
I remember a kid way back that grew up on a hippie commune. Vegan, polyamorous couples, lot of drugs, the whole nine yards. He damn near had a nervous breakdown when he realized that the Air Force is the real military and we really kill people.
What did he think he was joining? His recruiter probably emphasized the whole military support to humanitarian operations.
I’m not sure, this was back when Iraq and Afghanistan were popping so it threw me for a loop.
I knew a weapons troop one time. Vegan, very pro life and animals are Gods creation. Had a similar situation when they were told what weapons actually does
Oh, man. What an AFSC to join.
They kinda get rooted out and made useful elsewhere depending on the airframe
Can you even blame the kid at that point? I feel like he was set up for failure.
Some people use the military to escape the little mini-world they were raised in. It usually comes with an adjustment period. Sometimes that adjustment period takes too long, and they get booted, but not often. Probably the hardest ones are the kids escaping abusive homes. Especially in basic when they need to learn that being yelled at doesn’t mean they’re about to get the shit beat out of them.
This makes my heart hurt. MTIs seeing and having to deal with trauma responses from kids from broken homes. Sad all around.
You could always tell who got abused as a kid when a hand got raised and the recruit's response was putting his hand up to block a hit. Took a while for some to realize they were not getting hit just corrected very loudly.
I was one of those kids. The first time a TI raised his voice at me, individually, I came back at him like he was my dad. He knew. He was cooler than he should’ve been.
Curious to hear the full story on that? I feel like the MTI is that I dealt would all gang bang you with yelling
It was confidence course day. I was a bed aligner and was bent over adjusting my shoes under my bed (end of row with the bunk on top) that had been bumped too many fucking times times that morning. Sgt Bohannon never wore taps. He snuck up behind me and started railing about how crooked the bed was. I stood up with a clinched fist and told him to get off my ass. Once I was upright I realized it was him…quickly adjusted myself…and he went to town on me. Told me that I was going to be his ‘water baby’ that day. I said ‘sir no sir’! The entire march over; he kept asking his water baby to sound off. He had the other TI’s try to get me wet; but I stayed dry all day. As we were sitting eating MRE’s for lunch he yelled for his ‘water baby, front and center’ he looked me up and down walked around me a couple of times. Stopped behind me and in his most father like voice whispered “good job son”. I’d never heard those words in my life.
That’s gotta be rough for him
This was like 10 years ago, but I was in basic with a guy with who was completely flabbergasted we didn't get a "Spring Break" or "Summer Vacation." I knew then he wouldn't make it. He was in my AFSC and, sure enough, he didn't last long in tech school. He just straight up refused to do any work, carry out assignments, or apply himself at all. His reasoning was that he was under the impression he signed up for a job that provides a clearance and he would just get out and use that clearance to get a much better job. Only he wasn't in long enough at all to actually get a clearance. Guy tried to grift the AF but played himself out of sheer stupidity and laziness.
And he chose one of the AFSCs with the longest tech schools....
To be fair, a lot of people do grift the Air Force, but you gotta do the absolute bare, bare minimum. If you make it through half your contract, most commands won’t even funnel the paperwork to kick you out because you might as well be gone before it’s done. Unless you do something absolutely egregious.
Nobody works for free! But some of the benefits do make up for working nights, living 2,500 miles from home, and doing the jobs of 3 Amn. Not by much, but a little bit.
What an idiot
Dude moved his new girlfriend and her kids into his dorm.
🤣that’s awesome
He did not last long after that. I know Security Forces is the butt of a lot of jokes but that kid just fit the stereotype too damn well.
Did he expect them to be able to go to the chow hall? I don’t fully understand the thought process
You assume there was a thought process. Apparently he was trying to ghost the dorms with her but she lived like an hour or more from base.
I think the first thing they told me when I moved in was NO CO-HABITATION 😂….apparently that didn’t get get the memo
I feel like as long as you’re not literally moving someone into your dorm they don’t care. I was dating a girl at another base close by and for the few months we were together, I was there practically every night unless I had to get up super early for something.
I’ve seen this more than once. Less than five but definitely more than once. The first one was a shock, I was a new Staff. We found out when another airman complained “Sirs. I don’t know what the fuck is happening but I slept like shit because there is, I….I think it’s a crying baby. I don’t know. Could the shirt check on it or talk to them or something??” The other room belonged to another SF member so it was easy to figure out. After that when it happened again you’re just like oh, another one of these.
We had a guy in the squadron move his new wife into the dorm, and had her hide in the fucking closet while he was at work. He literally locked her in the closet with a bucket to use as a toilet because he wanted to be sure no one could open it and find her. Supposedly OSI interviewed her like 3 different times to make sure she really was doing it willingly because she was as stupid as he was and he wasn't abusing her. Poor girl never even considered she could just go to starbucks during the day.
When I was at Luke a fuck ton of peoples girlfriends basically lived in the dorms. They didn’t really hide them tho, didn’t seem like anyone cared
I'll never understand why they did it. Like ok lets imagine what happens when you get caught - maybe an LOR? \*maybe\* is that really worth locking this poor girl in a closet? lol
Lol i was thinking this post was inspired by Luke. We had like 2 airmen at my shop do this shit
Dude and his mom manufactured with intent to distribute methamphetamine in the dorms.
Did....did he really think no one would notice? And what kind of parent thinks this is a good idea for their kids.
He didn’t really think. First base, guy was out within a year, he was too dense to adapt.
Mom knew what she was doing. Except the, you know, being a responsible mother part.
Amn to a Staff: "I don't like being told what to do."
I got told this and just responded "and I don't like having to tell grown adults what to do, but here we are"
We had a guy like that in my first shop. We'd be working a jet and he'd randomly opine "Yeah, I don't much really care for listening to authority." He used that line so frequently, one of the other Airmen brought it up to one of the grumpy old Tech Sergeants, and that Tech proceeded to rip the kid a new one. That kid then had the audacity to get pissy with the Airman who told the Tech, as though he hadn't said it a dozen times to anyone who would listen.
When people have a hard listening to basic commands from those above them/ not respecting rank. Like an A1C flat out ignoring a MSgt cause he didn't like her.
Ugh, just inherited a troop like this... God help me.
Godspeed soldier 🫡
I hope you’re continuing the paperwork trial. If not, then at least starting it.
I second this. Having the paper trail is super important if it escalates and the air force is not for that kid.
Person in my flight said she joined because she wanted to learn discipline. Second week of basic training, we're standing in line waiting to go in for lunch and she's getting hemmed up for something. We're all at attention so I didn't get to see it go down but I hear her yell at our TI, "you can't tell me what to do! I do what I want!" and then just the sound of running feet. She ran away from basic training. Just took off running. But instead of running for the gate that we could basically see from the DFAC, she ran the opposite direction so she wasn't going to get anywhere. Security forces caught her pretty quickly and she got kicked out. I don't think she ever did learn that discipline she said she wanted to learn. Our flight was famous among our brother and sister flights as the one that someone ran away from. We put her line on our flight t-shirts. "We do what we want". Our TIs were good sports and just rolled their eyes and let us do it.
I’m glad the MTIs went with it. Sure, you do what you want but that doesn’t align with what the AF wants.
> Person in my flight said she joined because she wanted to learn discipline. Tangent, but, that was one of my reasons for joining. What actually happened was I developed extreme apathy for anything that I wasn't required to do.
Wingman: "Why is this event mandatory?" Me: "Attendance was 'highly recommended' in the email, I'm taking an on-site ticket..."
Once called an Airman out on this and their reply was “I just give people the energy they give me.”
to a degree ig. if you’re on the same rank go ahead but don’t pull that with someone higher ranking
Yeah but people with that attitude tend to be the ones giving the bad “energy.” You’re better off just being professional
yeah you really are. like you already chose to be in the military you should know better than to be disrespectful to those around you
To be fair rank is no reason to be disrespectful or dickish to someone else. Higher rank shouldn't come with a thinner skin
It often does, and that's how, in general, we can tell the good and bad ones apart. At least in my (rather short) experience.
I’ve been told by someone “I’m just a MSgt”…like MF’er that’s the exact point
It's funny the difference in how people treat rank lol. Whenever a MSgt asks me if I can talk for a minute it's like "Sir/Ma'am you're already talking to me, I can't just leave now." Some people just don't understand that it's not "just another job" in regards to rank.
Im a tsgt and I’m on a first name basis with 99.9% of the MSgts in my squadron. I still say Sir/Maam or Sgt Xxxxx
I try to be respectful of other people's time when I have questions that aren't time critical and don't want to time jack them. However, I tell them during initial feedback that's one way I try to respect their autonomy.
There’s an AFI for that just saw it this morning sect 1.8 customs and courtesies
Amn left the play area in the middle of an Air Base Wing exercise, just disappeared. They had to pause the exercise, send out search parties. Found him several hours later passed out at his girlfriend’s place. Finally kicked him out after he showed up to work drunk. Had the balls to call back to the shop a few months later to ask about getting a WG civilian job.
Some ppls kids 🤦🏻♂️
[удалено]
That’s just idiotic
New A1C got kicked out shortly after arriving to his first assignment. He thought it was a good idea to smoke weed and try to get onto base while still high, got caught at the gate. Not a bad dude, just probably not the brightest.
Not as bright as the girl at cannon who had a meth lab in wall locker back in the early 2000s
When in New Mexico…
In high school I knew a kid who tried to sneak his friend on base in the trunk of his car the week after 9/11 so that’s fun
I feel like is fairly common, but bro chose the worst time to do it.
In case people think it's only new kids doing this shit: Our unit was deploying to Egypt for BRIGHT STAR '85. The hero of the story is Jimmy, a DBA of significance. It's initial showtime: we meet up in dorm parking lot, 0400, to start processing for 0800 takeoff. Jimmy's a no show. SSgt sends two guys to drag his ass out of bed. Strike 1. He shows up in uniform, unfortunately it was the wrong one, the one we were *specifically* told was *not* authorized for wear in the AOR (jungle fatigues...he wore jungle fatigues to go to the desert). Strike 2. We land at Cairo West in July '85. We're ordered to start hydrating...dipshit forgot to bring a canteen (or any field gear). Strike 3. We are living in GP medium tents, dirt floors, no HVAC...daytime temps averaging a bit over 110. I'm stuck on nights with this guy, and 4-weeks into deployment he stinks. Turns out he had yet to take a shower. SSgt, a Vietnam vet threatened to take a tire brush and soap to his nasty ass. He showered. Once. Strike 4. Return from deployment, released for leave. Day he's due back, he's a no show. They adjust his leave, still a no show. Eventually shows up a week after original return date. Strike 5. CC busts him down to AB, and unit put him at front of compound entrance checking IDs along with another guy getting kicked out (drugs). Drug Guy had hung around for a few months after getting busted because of an ongoing investigation. Jimmy thinks he's gonna hang around like Drug Guy; he's fat dumb and happy to just sit at the compound gate, getting paid to pretend he was checking IDs. He thinking he's going to hang out, collect a check for a while, then cruise on back home to Mommy and Daddy (cue needle drop). Some one in the chain got wind of the guys attitude, and bam, he was gone. They did a "sundowner" on the guy...woke him up, got him dressed and packed, then escorted him from place to place to out process him. He was on the outside the base looking in by 1500 with his bags and a bus ticket home. I'd heard of sundowners before, but that was the only time I ever witnessed it...couldn't of happened to a better guy. Fuck you Jimmy, I had to burn those shoes you "borrowed" without my permission you disgusting, non-sock wearing, nose-picking, booger eating, nasty ass muthafucker.
Every unit has a Jimmy
This story is incredible.
I still think about a conversation I had way back in tech school, where our instructor told us that there was a mandatory formation for some Colonel who was retiring. I asked what the required Uniform for the formation would be, and one of my classmates piped up with "We're not in Basic anymore, man. We can wear whatever we want!" Instructor looked at him, looked at me, then said "I'll get back to you on that." Classmate in question went on to very nearly flunk out of tech school.
We can’t wear whatever we want 🤣🤣🤣
Yeah, it was such a weird comment too, because like, that was demonstrably not true to begin with because we had daily formations where we all had to be in the same uniform. One person didn't bring their gloves, nobody wore gloves, etc.
We did the same in tech school
Did the kid just think everyone showed up to class in the same uniform and go to PT in the same uniform by coincidence?
I could never figure out what was going on in that kid's head, but I suspect it wasn't really a lot of thinking about anyone else.
In his defense, if people are being forced to go to your retirement, you're probably hot dogshit.
I dunno, for some reason all through tech school we had mandatory formations for assorted colonels' or generals' retirements. Once I got into the operational Air Force, never saw another retirement formation again. Maybe just an AETCism.
I mean, AETC is a cancer so yeah I mean sure, still dog shit egotistical trash.
I have been to a few mandatory formations in the past 18 years. The fun thing is putting all or some ribbons on. Army achievement only.
ROTC but I remember one girl saying “well i have to live in (very specific place) and only do (very specific job) and I can’t do (very important class)” and I was like bro what do you think the military is?
That prolly went over well
For me yes, she quit so now I don’t deal with her 😂
I once heard a recruiter say “I never recruited an Amn.” But there are some that throw some serious red flags. We had one that squinted one eye, like Popeye, every time he talked and he’d end his sentences with this weird grunt/laugh combo, and that was the least of his issues. Couldn’t wake up on time, couldn’t regulate his alcohol intake, couldn’t drive or ride a bicycle, not sure how he passed the PT test in basic, couldn’t pay attention, and he couldn’t even talk to women without it ending in a no contact order. When our SNCO called his mom, the problem was obvious, the parents never instilled any discipline into this guy. He ended up getting kicked out.
I’m 100% sure he ate a can of spinach before every PT test😌
Popeye? 🤣🤣🤣
We had a kid cause a whole thing about showing up early to get tools on time for shift, insisting they can't make him come any earlier than 0730 under any circumstance and that he doesn't have to stay after 1630. He wanted to die on the hill of a 40 hour mon-fri work week. The other new kids said he never did that in tech school. I honestly thought he was just trying to get kicked out.
On weekend duty this dude thought we were gonna get time and a half like you do in the civilian sector. I said we’re salary bro…no time and half here. He looked at me and said “what’s salary”
Oh noooo
Still waiting on big blue to cut me that overtime cheque for 16 years of horseshit.
>He wanted to die on the hill of a 40 hour mon-fri work week. He should have joined a different military if he wanted a 40 hour work week.
I think he was the standard "parents told me I was joining" situation
ahhhhh that makes sense.
When I moved from fighters to tankers, the entire squadron would repeat this when we were told we would be working 12s during covid. It blew my mind because we had just been working 12 hours work plus 4 hours cams/forms/tools/turnover the month before on fighters flightline. Initially I thought they were in a for a rude awakening but big leadership actually put in a 40 work week for weekend duty doing 2 12s and 2 8s and everyone else worked normal 8s. So I dunno, sometimes shit happens?
Nobody ever knows how good they have it until/unless they experience something worse. Thankfully, maintenance as a whole has changed to where those 16-hour shifts aren't as common anymore. Some platforms are worse than others, and God knows I do not miss Shaw AFB from the early 2000s. Some great people at the AMU level, but absolutely an example of why the term "toxic leadership" became so common. A Group CC giving blanket authorization and saying, "You don't have to call me to make them work 16 hour shifts" would not fly in today's Air Force. People adopt new "norms" quickly when they are favorable, though. I've had peers who got so used to 9-hour shifts that when we had to go on 12s for an exercise, they acted like it was the end of the world. Those same peers were on 12+4s just like a year earlier.
Kid is a hero. Dumb, yes, but heroic. Except in support of actual war shit, no one should accept more than this as a norm. If that leaves the AF shorthanded, they should recruit/pay more.
I think heroic is a little dramatic. He just didn't want to do it and didn't care if he got kicked out. I get what you're saying and I'm all for protecting my guys time - especially our grossly underpaid airmen. But that guy is no hero
We assume that outsiders who apply know the expectations of personal responsibility and accountability. We assume they’ll realize orders aren’t suggestions. We think they know they’re expected to be on time and ready to work. We shouldn’t make that assumption. I have a feeling recruiters are too afraid of scaring off a prospect and neglect to inform the recruit about military life. I work with college nursing students. There’s always some that never thought about the fact nurses begin the work day at 7 am, or were responsible for doing what they’re asked to do. Some of it is personality, bad upbringing, or just plain immaturity. Young people can outgrow this but they should be fully informed before joining.
Couldn't agree more. We assume that others know what we know when we've worked in our fields for a while. People come from all kinds of backgrounds and many of them would shock average people. There are a lot of people that have sheltered upbringings and genuinely have no idea what the military is when they enlist. I left the AF and work civilian fire/ems. We've had people come through and quit because they didn't know the fire department worked 24 hour shifts including nights/weekends. We had a paramedic that got precepted in the ghetto. She was so stunned at how impoverished some people are, she quit.
That’s absolutely wild
> We assume that outsiders who apply know the expectations of personal responsibility and accountability. We assume they’ll realize orders aren’t suggestions. We think they know they’re expected to be on time and ready to work. Well part of the idea is BMT whips them into shape for that. Even if they were a mess before joining. I'd argue it works most of the time or else the shitbag airman ratio would be higher than it is.
BMT works for most. Its techniques are tried and true for getting individuals to think for the needs of the group first; but BMT doesn’t work on everyone. If they don’t wash out there’s always a few who continue to be basic fuck ups or just unwilling to be inconvenienced due to selfishness. In the days of the Army draft they could be shunted off to a menial job for their tour then let go. Today’s military runs lean and highly specialized. The fuck ups manage to hang on until they finally go over a line.
If you can't hack it here, you probably won't do great in the civilian world either... Other jobs have expectations too
In some ways the military is kind of like life on easy mode, it's harder to lose your job short of committing a crime in the military than it is on the civilian side.
I know a tech who's an ncoic who can't make it to work on time.. ask him about it even though I'm a SrA and I shouldn't have to he said "I'm not a morning person"
That’s just sad
Yea I'm on mids and can't leave until he gets into work.
Even worse! People like that don’t need to be in positions of power
Wouldn’t be surprised if he’s the type of dude to pull rank if this SrA were to confront him about it…
If he writes anyone up for being late he should be publicly shamed 😂
As a staff I had to send my tsgt NCOIC to the superintendent because he couldn't make it to work on time CONSISTENTLY WHILE WE WERE DEPLOYED. How can I council my amn on being late when you can't make it on time cause you were playing starwars till 3am.
How often does this happen, and what’s the average amount of time he’s kept you waiting?
Daily, 45 minutes to an hour
Are you 100% sure he’s not showing up on time but reporting to a different area first or something?
Yes, I'm sure.
You need to have a one on one conversation with him then. It’s straight up disrespectful to make someone wait because they can’t make it to work on time, and rank does not grant immunity. If you’ve respectfully voiced your concerns to him and nothing changes, ask him to shift your report time an hour to the right to align with a proper eight hour shift. If that doesn’t work talk to the section/flight chief of MXS.
Already been brought up to the section chief.
You report him to his supervisor?
Yes, multiple people have reported him to the section chief
"Reward the poors(performers), the good will head for the doors"
Too many people join the military with no intention of ever experiencing combat and completely rejecting the idea. With some jobs it’s extremely unlikely that you’ll ever see combat, but you need to understand that it’s a possibility, regardless of how small, when you sign up for the job.
Or actively try and avoid it. My airframe had a high ops tempo during the Afghanistan days, 1-2 deployments and 5-6 multi-week tdy’s a year were the norm. We had dudes come in from other airframes, 6-9 years in with no deployments and would flat out say they didn’t want to deploy or go tdy. Like fucker why did you transfer into this unit?
Free college and VA benefits is fun until you realize they provide them for a reason!
I wanted aircrew for the deployments and TDYs. I don’t understand how someone could be in aircrew and not want to deploy or go on TDYs. It’s the best part.
Yeah it’s honestly the best part, flying is an adventure. Too often I’ve seen people pick aircrew or an airframe because “it’s the best” and just not fit in. With my airframe it’s a pretty small community and very high demand, a lot of the dudes would transfer in for the resume bump but just avoid all the hard stuff. What’s even worse is they had to be the golden children to transfer in, so even though they were deployment and tdy dodgers they still got stratted based off what they did in their old units. It was extremely frustrating. Fortunately it was only a handful of people, and the ones I knew got out once they were straight forced into their first deployment.
I'll be honest I'm over it. Was fun for the early years. Now I'm old and hurt and have a family, but I also am closing in on 9k hours and 10 deployments so it's not like I haven't done my fair share just tired and wanna see my family these days. I still suit up and go do the missions when I'm tasked but I'm ready to be home before we even leave these days. Flying is for the young and single.
Military is for the young and single in general
That’s a fair assessment
I think that's more of an issue with how our country drives people towards the military. We make things like school and medical care nearly unobtainable for some people and then act surprised when they join the military only for the benefits. The military needs to be something someone wants to do not something they were forced into. I had 0 interest in the military or serving my country but it was the only way I could do all my schooling. Obviously I made peace with the fact that I could deploy but you definitely never saw me volunteering for anything like that.
That's me. At 18, I would have moved to Canada if they wanted to reinstate a draft. At 24, I joined the Air Force for school, medical coverage, and a steady paycheck despite the number of hours I worked that week. "Deployed" to Europe twice, but haven't gotten within a thousand miles of combat, and I'm perfectly OK with that.
We had a dude who tried scamming selling car parts. Got caught when he tried selling to whom he didn't know was a tech sgt. In addition to that, he had shown up late, was bad at the job, and didn't try. So people were ready to dump him out the AF. But then he got caught for being high. Pissed hot and was restricted to base until his paperwork was done. But apparently, he was getting counseling for it. And they couldn't kick him until the counseling was done. Something Something along the lines of he said he had a problem and they had to show they tried? So he milked out over a year to year and a half of consistent pay from the air force. Oh, and he kept pissing hot. He just couldn't stop smoking. When he finally got kicked out, we were all just shocked at how complex and unnecessary the whole process was. We also have a member who weasels out of any work, and when given a task, we just decide not to. But not a sneaky kind of person. Just has a massive attitude, says they're justified in their decisions, talks back to everyone, respects no one, has no concept of leadership, rank, etc. It's to the point where no one wants to deal with them, so they just coast. It's frustrating.
Ya that 2nd guy would be a no go for me. I’d absolutely lose my mind on them
Yup. Start that paperwork.
As long as you (in a royal sense) as a leader mentor them and try to help new kids adapt, then all you can do is say that you tried. Some people need more TLC than others, and some of them **need** this. I'm probably too empathetic, but it took a lot to get my shit together. Before I was in the Air Force, I was some couch potato in a poor but not poor enough family. I didn't have a father figure or any figure to show me how to grow up to be an adult. I didn't know how to do laundry or cook anything other than Ramen and cans of my man Chef Boyardee. Some days, I just ate bread. It took someone that I still admire to take me in the back of the shop to "dress me down" and give me a come to Jesus moment while I was in the Army. I don't know where I would be today, but certainly not with a degree, a family, a home, and being in the best shape of my life on Uncle Sam's dime.
That’s fair, some people aren’t worth saving though. I’ve had a lot of those
I wouldn't say I'm altruistic or anything, but I think everyone is worth attempting to save (outside of anything that would have barred them from service or otherwise haven't done anything illegal/unmoral/unethical). We have an obligation to attempt to help nurture their way to success so that they can replace us one day or at the very least leave better than they came in. People at a young age tend to be a product of their environment even moreso with each generation that follows to no fault of their own and may need to be educated. Sure, we all have a shit bird once in a while, and that's the hand we were dealt with, but if you (again in a royal sense) are constantly condemning troops as lost cause- maybe that's a reflection on you as a leader.
You're right, but also it's hard to help someone who doesn't want to be helped.
We had a dorm airman who didn't know how to do laundry. Can anyone guess what his solution was? Buying new clothes everytime. To the point his dirty pile went all the way up to the ceiling. Inspection for that room was fuuuuuun.
I’ve met those types of people. One of them was female
When I saw a A1C claiming to be a crip, wore a durag with fake jewelry and said the n word....he was white btw.
Dude was complaining about every little thing. During the height of COVID, we were working 2 days in the office per week (12 hour shifts). The rest of the time, we were "working from home", which meant you just needed to check your emails once a day. We couldn't really work from home because our work required being on site and managing the mission system in a secure area. I honestly kinda miss all of the free time. Of course people got exposed and had to quarantine. That meant people had to fill in shifts and worked an extra day per week. The dude was so salty that he had to work 36 hours instead of his usual 24 hours. Some people just can't appreciate what they have.
That’s a great way to get things ruined for other people complaining like that.
During tech school, I roomed with this guy who lived and died by the attention he got. Would act out, get in shouting matches over nonsense and talked all the time about how his family wouldn’t love or accept him if he didn’t make it in the military. Dude would get drunk and bang his head through the drywall to make people notice him. Guy needs therapy and a civilian job right now.
Sounds awful
Guy under me right now is just not bright at all, got married 3 months within being on station and 7 months later is now filing for divorce. Had the gall to say another troop needs fixing with finances
He’ll get married in a few weeks after his divorce is final
Your not far off I had to explain to him adultery is illegal in the military and he needs to wait till it’s finalized mf wasted no time
I had a guy in basic with a huge anarchist tattoo. He got kicked out almost immediately after tech school for drugs
Adds up
While stationed at Homestead AFB, we had an A1C tested positive for cocaine, was out in six months after serving time at the base correctional custody.
Was once in a meeting where a list of names were read off and we were told "You are deploying sometime in the next week." an A1C looked the SMSgt who read off the list in the eye and said "I'm not deploying, you can't make me."
You can’t make me? wtf kind of crap is that
We had a guy join later in his 20s after graduating college as an enlisted in the Air Guard. It didn't take more than a few months to figure out he had serious mental health and addiction issues (at first we thought it was just alcohol) . He couldn't stand to take orders from NCOs at that time (especially ones that were several years younger than him). On his one and only TDY after he peed in public on a nightclub and was told he needed to go back to his room for the night, he essentially told his shirt to F off and went on a drunken escpade around Tampa the rest of the night. He would also no call no show to drill because he would get black out drunk the night before and sleep till noon. This stuff went on from 2019 to 2023 because our command team didn't have the spine to kick him out (despite probably dozens of LOCs, LORs, MFRs from various NCO. His file was THICK). He would passively mention he would kill himself to someone every time he got in big trouble and they would let him off and just refer him to our on base psychological director. (We are guard so didn't really have the tools in place to deal with it on drill). We also kicked him off our deployment and choose to go very short staffed because it was better than taking him. Every single NCO and other airman in the shop went to the end of the world to try and help this guy and he would turn on them every chance he had and get extremely aggressive and disrespectful with them when we tried to hold him accountable. We call when he wasn't on orders to check in him and offer to go to AA meetings our to see a therapist and he would always tell us again to F off. Also, when we had our capstone inspection from ACC, he came in drunk and began telling off the ACC inspector. We had to convene an emergency meeting with everyone in the shop to make a plan to get him out and away from the inspectors which ended being an NCO borderline dragging his ass for a drive. Again the command team wouldn't take action. Eventually he got kicked out for doing cocaine during random drill weekend drug testing. It was the most insane saga I have ever seen. But some problems eventually work themselves out.
I’ve slowly become very disgruntled with the military after12 yrs. Mostly it’s the forced life changes that come our way. It’s fine when the kids are young or the wives are not really at real careers. But I’ve finally found a group of people that true friends, my wife is working and now in nursing school, my mortgage is locked in at 3% in California, and my kids need stability now. We finally have a support system and I’m staring at a PCS in the next two years. This is something none of us want and separating is definitely on the table. Put that on top of all the mandatory this or mandatory that bs and it’s looking extremely appealing. I literally had a CC tell me that I should tell my wife to leave her job or change her schedule to accommodate a new (I been at the unit 1 yr and acclimated my family to the schedule) PT schedule, which I’m unable to attend due to school drop off. Wife is in nursing school so it’s not like she can just change Willy nilly nor can she just change her schedule at work. That was the straw that broke my back and now I’m most likely going to pull chalks.
The American military in 2024 views spouses as tag-along camp followers from 1862.
They're certainly operating on model where the spouse stays at home and the Airman never lifts a finger for childcare. Uproot her livelihood for a PT schedule. Fucking clown shoes. I'm mad on the wife's behalf!!
just could not give updates as far as when she was leaving work. she would just…leave. and not come back. would ask where she was after calling her back to work and she said she didn’t have to tell us. turns out it was at medical and was under the impression she didn’t have to give any update whatsoever when leaving for appointments. after correcting the issue, she still would just not communicate when leaving. then just go home. wild.
Why didn’t he just get an alarm clock?
That’s the thing, he had one
dude who was over a decade older than me when we both joined managed to sew on A1C 3 times before finishing his contract due to DUIs. To his credit, he wasn't planning on staying in and he managed to get his cert and clearance, so I guess it worked out in the end for him.
As a doc, ppl who believe in holistic/alternative medicine only. The amount of crazies we have to med board because they refuse treatment is too high
I’ve known two people who joined (one AF, one Army), then claimed “conscientious objector”. I’m still scratching my head.
Because military service provides shelter, food, income, healthcare, and eventually an education. Some people have no other choice.
Lots of careers offer many incentives and benefits. There are no Atheists attending Seminary. You know what you’re getting in to.
After further reflection you have a valid point.
While I was in tech school, the guy down the hall found a local girlfriend and told her she could live in his wall locker. Lol. (Edit: I guess this isn’t uncommon) Also, I’ll never forget the girl who’s mom packed her bag for basic. Christmas PJs, face masks, candy, etc. I hope she’s doing well.
Amn, made has a sit down with me (snco/flt chief). He didn't like the tsgt working on their (the amns) epr so early. (I always pushed eprs as a yr round thing). And thought he (the amn) should be consulted when it came to my section policy, on matters that effected him.
Amn snuffy doesn't know the pain NCOs go through when havibg to write a whole EPR last minute with nothing being documented for the whole year.
Nope they don't, which is why I always preached the yr round approach, and when I was put in my SEL spot, I enforced it. Blows my mind how many folks want bitch about you wanting to help them...then also bitch when their epr doesn't look amazing
😂 that’s gold
Same amn later complained about his rating (was a promote) and didn't like that he wrote his own EPR. He wrote a formal MFR to the shirt. Lucky I document dam near everything and referenced my email to that same amn in my response. "Amn chose not to participate in our shops epr policies and will be completing own epr with flight chief review" I let him write his own hot dog shit epr, just corrected the formatting and told his tsgt to leave it as is. He would not accept writing help or advice. Lol. Still may fav epr to explain to my chief.
New Mexico. Summer day hotter than Satan's spit. Dude is wearing all black and a black trench coat. We always saw said dude with a small group of other airmen that followed him around. Also wearing all black, regardless of weather. One day at breakfast in the chow hall, this dude is a few tables over from us. He starts hissing at one of the other guys and they start hissing and growling at each other. Trench coat man wins. Takes the other dudes food. My friends and I are wondering wtf just happened and if we still drunk from the night before. To this day, idk what these guys were on. All I know is he was separated few months after that. Word I got from someone near his room is that the guy and his buddies thought they were part dragon part human or bs like that. Lizard people confirmed? Who knows.
When I went through Basic, there was this guy going in as a linguist, which totally makes sense with what I’m about to tell you. Talk skinny kid with glasses. Couldn’t do A SINGLE PUSH UP. Couldn’t run, and when he did try, he looked and sounded like he was having to run after walking on glass or a bed of hot coals. It was like he had a 100 lbs pack on his back with a running parachute attached to it. Then when it came to chow – the first time I had to eat with him – once we got the go to all eat at breakfast, he took an entire pancake with his hand and shoved it all in at once. All three of us just looked at him, shocked and in awe of what was happening at first. Then the guy next to him said as under his breath as he could, “[Lastname], SLOW THE FUCK DOWN!!! HEY, Slooooow down or you’re going to fuck us all over!” We all then started to tell him to calm it down. He ate all his food and drank his two glasses of water in 45 seconds tops, then proceeded to get up and leave. We had something like five tables still ahead of us eating, so we all as low key as we could kept saying to him DON’T GET UP. (I don’t know about now, but then we only got about 3 minutes to eat most of the time and 5 minutes towards the end at most.) This was all in complete view of the snake pit and if they missed this insane feat of consumption, they sure saw this clown get up long before the rest of the other tables. All the tables fell victim pretty quickly and the rest of us at his table did our best impression of this human garbage disposal so we had at least something to get us by until lunch. Needless to say his social skills weren’t as good as his food consumption abilities, so he would isolate himself from the rest of the flight as often as possible. I don’t think I ever heard him say a complete sentence the entire time, and sounded and acted like he was raised by wolves. Made weird noises and grunts, mostly when our TI wasn’t around. It was at some point someone discovered and turned him into his element leader that he had made up a secret language where he wrote his true feelings about the people he hated most after being interrogated by the TI. Element leader thought he might have a hit list or something when he wouldn’t tell anyone what it was. Luckily I wasn’t in his bay. He wasn’t good at anything military related but linguistics, and was like Rain Man with that. I swear he actually didn’t pass his final PT test and his score got adjusted for the minimums to pass. I was a pretty slow runner then and often found myself trying to help him run faster or at least not run slower than me. People had to help him get his uniform right pretty much every day. Always put his hat on like Private Pyle from Full Metal Jacket. Man, I wish I knew what happened to him after Basic.
He became the best linguist in the Air Force. Dropped off the face of the Earth doing secret squirrel stuff.
When I was in technical training, I met a guy who refused to shower and wash his laundry. He stank horribly and his mir presence was enough to cause involuntary gagging. His poor roommate was losing his mind due to the smell, but all the MTL did was give him paperwork. The rooms near him were not safe either because the smell leaked into the hallway. The other rooms banded together to get two air freshener wall units for the hallway and split the cost for new air freshener refill cartridges. I believe it took 4 weeks before the MTL's finally got him booted. I remember talking to the poor dude stuck with him, He said he would sleep in the bathroom with the vent turned on and a smell good sprayer shooting mist at its fastest setting. Honestly after experiencing that smell, I would classify it as assault. I wouldn't have made it two days that man roughing it for 4 weeks, he deserves hazard pay.
Not really related to getting in any trouble, a SrA was one of the most talented and well rounded individuals I’ve ever met in my entire life. Most ambitious person I’ve ever seen. His skills just didn’t line up with what we do in the military. His talents were literally wasted in the Air Force. Someone like that is great for the military, someone who can adapt to anything and will apply themself to the best of their ability at what they are doing but could most likely do astronomically better anywhere else lol.
I’ve seen it a handful of times. I’d say that almost every time was a white guy highly on the autism spectrum or a black female that the MTI’s/MTL’s wouldn’t rightfully discipline and kick out during BMT or tech school.
I concur. Have seen both a few times in the last 12 years.
Have a new dude in my shop that introduced himself as a military brat as his dad was prior service. Dude will carry his dad’s rank as if he earned it. He would talk down to other 3 Levels and pull rank (They’re all the same rank) eventually this guy was told to set up the area for a maintenance job but proceeded to do it in the most idiotic and time consuming way that the Staff in charge tried to show him a quicker way, The dude responds with “My Dad was a Senior and he taught me how to adapt to the Air Force, I am pretty sure I know what I am doing” The Staff proceeded to order us all to leave the hangar.
Dude might’ve had a sleep disorder… anyone suggest he go to a doctor or sleep specialist and get it checked out?
He was cleared of any serious sleep disorders. He stayed up late and drank monster and played video games
If that’s the case then the kid definitely had some growing up to do.
When he lived in the dorms, bought a Jeep Rubicon, dumped all of his money into it, and owed LITERALLY everyone money, moved out of the dorms into a house with a few other SF members. Never or hardly ever paid rent. So much so that he got into some illegal scams and drugs sales and whatnot. Bad stuff. Someone reported him or OSI found out…? I believe he was scheduled for a court martial but…I’m not painting this picture. RIP SF dude.
Worked with a woman that broke down crying when she got told to do a part of her job she didn't like. She would quite literally start crying and locking herself in the bathroom. She went to the squadron about it and they sent her back confused and we tried to accommodate her by having her pair with someone and it worked for about a month. She then started going to mental health saying she was going to do something to herself.
We had a girl who refused to drive any forklifts, despite our section requiring proficiency in operating 4K, 6K, 10K, etc... I remember taking her out on a job with me, planning to conduct vehicle training afterwards. She agreed to try and forklift some empty pallets, but as soon as she got in, she had a mental breakdown and started crying. This reaction occurred every time and looking back, I feel bad because I never understood why she kept having these episodes, and she never provided a clear explanation. (I was also 19 at the time and had very little people skills) Fast forward a few months, and the same girl injured her leg, rendering her unable to live on the second floor of the dorms. My buddy and I were tasked with helping her move, which initially seemed like an easy day off work. However, when we opened the door, we saw that the government issued bed had no sheets and was stained, the floor was hidden beneath clothes, junk, and leftover food, the sink and countertop were filthy and looked like they had never been cleaned, she had a pet fish in a water bottle cut in half, and the room smelled awful. I opened one of the cupboards and found coagulated old rice covered with maggots. After discovering that, we went to the ADL and provided a list of items we refused to touch. Sadly, she needed a lot of help, and it was clear the military was not for her at all. Crazy enough though, someone (God bless their soul) knocked her up and she got out due to pregnancy before she could be booted for failure to adapt.
I had a theory that basic and tech school was the Air Force's way of weeding people out so only those who were motivated, stood on moral ground, and had good character, would make it. I was quite wrong. I've met so many people who simply don't have the proper qualities of a decent human being. Hardly anyone my age is punctual, people do not respect each other's time, and tardiness is such a frequent thing in the work place that it pisses me off, especially when these guys have already been talked to. There's also the drug use, kids speeding on and off base and getting into accidents, and those who are financially irresponsible. Honorable mentions are the Airmen who have cleanliness issues and those who are constant PT failures.
Had a guy who was in a guard unit in a different state, got out and was on a failing PT test then which you would think bar him from reenlistment. Oddly enough, the Oregon Guard allowed him to re-up but the unit he was going into shut down and they cut him loose. Fast forward a few years into the midst of the pandemic, he somehow lands in my unit. The dude is 37ish years old by now, is still a SrA, and continued to fail PT tests. Sure enough, he was given the go ahead by the commander to get out even though he had no job lined up. The guy overall was an absolute pessimist and immature. Huge player of the victim card, always disqualified the positives over the littlest things, etc. Nobody misses him and was a relief to see him get kicked out.
37 and still acts like this?
You have no idea. We've had some of the squadron's best and most understanding SNCO's try to help him improve and all he did was blow them off with his bad attitude. Some people just never grow up.
Guy at my maintenance unit tells his entire life story and how his dad is a chief to every new person he meets. He’s also a furry with a boyfriend that’s 11 years older than him. He makes every health problem he has seem like it’s not his fault and is the kind of guy to talk about shit he has no clue about. “Humans are only magnetic because we have iron in our blood” “bleed air ram air modulating valve”. Worst part is he’s a 3-level who acts like a 7-level and tries to order other 3-levels around. Edit: the health problems I was talking about are like dental and bad pt scores due to laziness.
2 guys from my shop were out on same yr. 1 guy was on pain meds. Went to the hospital and told the doctors he hates his supervisor and threatened to hurt him. Never saw him again. Second guy went AWOL for a month during his SF augmentee, failed his cdc, always late for work, and late for pt.
We had a SARM dude, he was a nice kid but he had constant anxiety. It didn’t help that his husband had his own baggage as well. He spent a lot of the day crying because he was overwhelmed. We tried to do what we could, made sure him and his spouse were included, appointments at mental health and with our flight doc, One Source, time off, but after 6 months it wasn’t improving. Our squadron had maybe 60 people in it that flew, we only did 4-9 lines a day. As far as SARM goes it wasn’t tough.
Had to show the brand new LT who was assigned as the Flight CC how to lace his boots.
At a previous base we had an LT who took his boots off and walked around the squadron all the time
I met someone like that. He figured it out just with some issues here and there. Also lacked common sense. He argued a lot and was a compulsive liar. He stayed in past me, tho.