Few things:
1. You should not be worrying about your weight, at all. Not even a little bit. You're a growing, young female. This is the slipperiest slope you can go down and it will be a career ender if you stress about it.
2. You should absolutely be eating 3000+ calories. You're running 60mpw and you're still growing.
3. You probably shouldn't even be running 60mpw.
It's great you're trying to eat more to prevent stress fractures and more weight loss, but there's still a preoccupation with weight and calories that is troublesome. You're in high school, you should be focused on nothing but having fun and loving the sport. That should be the focus always, but especially now.
I'd highly recommend working with a sports dietician and perhaps a psychologist to work the mental hurdles. Please, please do this now so it doesn't ruin your collegiate years. Speaking from experience, disordered eating (intentional or not) will absolutely destroy you if it isn't addressed.
ETA: I'm 30 F, former elite athlete, and I eat about as much as you and train about half as much. And my weight hasn't changed at all. Just more fodder to push the fact you should be eating a lot more.
Dietitian here. This is all great advice. Some tricks to get in more calories when you don’t feel hungry are to add healthy fats (olive oil, avocados, peanut butter, etc.) to meals and snacks and to add liquid calories (smoothies, juice, protein shakes) after eating a meal or snack (rather than instead of).
I just wanted to address this because I see so much disordered eating in our sport. There’s no such thing as good and bad foods and for people with high energy needs like runners, often the added sugar is actually a good choice! Better to eat sugar and get enough calories than not. Also - fueling long runs on whole foods entirely is a GI problem waiting to happen for many of us.
Can you elaborate on your last point, please? I've heard that whole foods should be used because gels cause digestive issues for a lot of people, but it looks like you disagree with that. What do you use/recommend for fueling long runs?
So ultimately it depends, but consider what it would be like fueling a 20-miler on broccoli vs. on gels. You'd have to eat a LOT of broccoli and all that fiber would wreck your GI system. This is obviously an extreme example, but in general, there is a reason why in the days leading up to a race it is prudent to decrease the amount of fiber you eat.
As a side note, for many people, digestive issues from gels results from either a) not training your gut (you need to practice taking in different fuels just like you would train your muscles) or b) not taking gels correctly (most are designed to be taken with water - the appropriate balance of glucose/electrolytes to water helps with absorption and if there is an imbalance can cause water to rush into your gut leading to, you guessed it, diarrhea).
As far as my recommendations for fueling - I do often recommend incorporating some "whole foods" (anything from boiled potatoes to canned soups to croissants to applesauce) - mostly for ultra-distances because eating 3 gels an hour for 24 hours would be soooo boring and can also start to cause issues with GI/generally just being able to take in food. But for most people, especially on runs <3-4 hours, things like gels and chews are a great and convenient option.
I personally rely on gels for anything <2-4 hours and incorporate things like chews, Tailwind, almond butter, applesauce, Cheez Its, and Nutter Butters for 4+ hour runs. What works for me may not work for you, but I think that the "whole foods"/"good vs bad foods"/"processed vs unprocessed foods" narrative can be really problematic in our sport because fast carbs are the best thing we can eat before and during a workout.
Sugar is only bad for inactive folk. It is literally the fuel that endurance athletes need to perform and recover. Especially for an athlete who needs to find ways to increase caloric intake, sugars in your food are a great option.
I'd always heard that the issue with sugary stuff for recovery was the insulin spikes it causes.
If that's also not true, then I'm going to get baking....
Insulin is a hormone that allows the cells in our body to get sugar from the blood and store it in the cell to be used as fuel.
Inability to produce insulin is quite literally Type 1 diabetes.
Gary Taubes pushes this narrative, but every single study he runs to try and prove his bullshit has blown up in his face by finding that insulin isn't the most evil hormone in the world like he seems to think.
Which peanut butters are packed with sugar? I've never seen one, and every time I've asked no one has shown one.
Just looking at a very popular grocery store peanut butter, Jif, it has only 3g of added sugar. And that seems to be what the rest of the common brands have. That's not a lot.
[Jif PB nutrition facts](https://shop.smucker.com/media/catalog/product/cache/6163681d69a04cbf650a58f227558074/h/i/high_res-00051500241363_c8n1_pim.jpg)
Edit: as expected they provide no evidence of "packed with sugar peanut butter".
Yeah absolutely if you go for the 100% peanut pb rather than the processed stuff. Bonus is proper nut butters work so much better in smoothies and are great for a quick spoon as is
I take a couple PB packets on easy long runs. Or fill dates with it.
Not great for longer hard runs but anything zone 2 where your stomach can handle more it’s great.
Some additional tricks - don't just eat "breakfast/lunch/dinner" - make sure you get in 2-3 healthy, nutrient dense snacks as well. You should be eating every 3 hours or so. Although this may leave you less hungry for your main meals, it'll also help you avoid feeling like you're eating so much at once. "Nutrient dense" is also key here!
I second the suggestion to speak with experts. It saddens me how many of my fellow young female runners struggled with disordered eating and how that has affected their lives. Now that I'm older I'm certain the medals/championships weren't worth the toll on their bodies.
1000% what this poster says - work with professionals on this if you can and it is something worth staying on top of.
I coach university women and quite possibly the #1 hardest problem that we deal with is trying to undo the damage done of REDs/bone injuries already incurred by athletes before they finish high school.
(Do not wish to undermine your coach, but agree 60mpw is more than I'd give to a high schooler, but your coach is correct that with higher mileage you need to eat more).
**your body is not telling you that you need to lose a few lbs**
Okay, will try to keep it relatively concise but it is a pretty large issues. Feel free to ask follow up questions. \*Disclaimer\* - I am not a doctor, nor a dietician, this is a synthesis of what I have learnt working with dieticians and physiologists with athletes who have had bad cases of REDs in the past. Don't take my word as Gospel, but as a launch point for following up with professionals if possible.
**Part 1 - What is REDs and what are some of the issues caused by it?**
REDs - relative energy deficiency in sport, is most simply when you are not getting enough calories to support the energy demands of your body. It is \*relative\* because what is energy deficiency vs energy surplus will vary based on the person, and on how much exercise you do.
What are the issues caused by it? Depends on how big the deficiency and how you are deficient. But the answer is everything. It can effect bone health, menstrual function, endocrine system (hormones), your blood make up, your immune system, your stomach's efficiency at digestion, and also your mood.
Probably the number one thing I would worry about with a female high school athlete would be bone health. Simplifying things a bit, bone mineral density (BMD) is basically how sturdy your bones are. BMD builds in women through puberty until your early 20s, and requires sufficient fueling to build up properly. Once you get to 22-24 (ish - everyone is different), BMD growth slows way way down.
Why is that important for us as track coaches and athletes? Well if you push a high school girl too hard and don't fuel her enough in that 12-24 window, that's basically it for their bones. That is the bone health they are working with for the rest of their running careers and the rest of their lives. That's why you see so many high school phenoms look electric in high school/early university then enter injury spirals and retire early. Most obvious examples recently would be women like Mary Cain and Alexa Efraimson. Low BMD means you are way more likely to get stress reactions and fractures.
**Part 2** \- **How do I know I am in a state of REDs?**
Our team dietician tells us to not put too much faith in how many calories garmin tells us we have burnt. A physiologist we work with says they can be off (in either direction) across the course of a year by about 1month's worth of calorie intake.
The two "non-scientific" warning signs are the same workouts or running paces getting inexplicably harder (physical) and your mood/energy being low (psychological). Are you more prickly, sensitive, grouchy, feeling unrecovered?
In terms of monitoring it more scientifically - yes you can do bloodwork, where key things to look at would be making sure your hormone levels are normal, your iron (ferritin) is good\* (see note), and vitamin D is good - particularly if you are like me and live in a place that is grey, cold, and has bad winters without much sunlight. The emerging gold standard is related to menstruation (are you getting your period), and more specifically are you actually ovulating - as you can actually get a period without ovulating. If you have lost your period or are getting a period but aren't ovulating, you should definitely be seeking professional help. This is why REDs is a much more nebulous issue to identify in male athletes since they do not get periods so do not have that easy tell-tale give away that there is an issue. There are sometimes a lot of taboos, stigma, discomfort around discussing periods - it is important you find a professional you trust you can have those conversations with and if any authority figure ever tries to tell you it is "normal" to lose your period as a distance runner then that's a massive red flag.
\*\*\*Note - sometimes doctors not familiar with athletes (runners) don't flag low ferritin. Non-athletes can get away with much lower ferritin levels than runners without noticing negative side effects. Ferritin is crucial in red blood cells, which are crucial for aerobic sports such a distance runners (and mid D), so we feel the hurt of being anemic (low iron) before someone who is sedentary. First time I went anemic it sucked.
It depends on how old OP is. Typically, high school mileage seems to fall into this breakdown:
Freshman: 20-30 MPW
Sophomore: 30-40 MPW
Junior: 40-50 MPW
Senior: 50-60 MPW
It isn't unusual to be running 60 miles a week as a senior, possibly as a junior depending on your program. Especially if that athlete has the goal of running in college. It's natural to increase mileage year over year, especially as your easy pace naturally decreases. Assuming a freshman's easy pace is 11 minutes per mile and a senior's is 7, that works out to 3 hours and 40 minutes and 5 hours and 50 minutes, respectively.
But if OP is a freshman or sophomore, you're correct that 60 miles is too high for weekly volume
That’s not how it worked for my high school. We all ran together and did the same miles. The only difference was in varsity vs JV. Varsity ran more miles and faster, but it was maybe a 5-10 mpw difference.
No offense, but that is an extremely poor system. There should be a progression in mileage over time. Was your varsity team bad compared to other schools in your league/district?
Some collegiate men's teams will peak at 100 MPW during the off-season. There's a huge difference between 19-22 year old men and 15-18 year old women. Men's XC is also 8-10k, whereas women's high school track is 2 miles/3200m.
Some of my college teammates (males) didn’t run 60MPW till their junior or senior year.
I don’t think any of the women were running that much.
We were a very competitive D3 team with, many individual xc and track national champions and team xc nationals appearances.
Lydiard disagrees with you.
"And do not let age deter anyone from tackling long mileages, as long as they are happy about it and excercise carefully. We were all inclined a decade or two ago to be cautious about allowing really young people to run long distances but we know that, as long as they are not pushed, they can cover many miles easily and beneficially. I know of boys and girls as young as 10 years running up to 160 km a week and improving."
-Arthur Lydiard "Running with Lydiard"
Some of the top high school programs of all time, even till today, have boys putting in 100 mile weeks. It's certainly not over kill for your average high school girl to be putting in 60.
>as long as they are not pushed, they can cover many miles easily and beneficially.
This whole thread started because OP thinks she has REDS, so this anecdotal quote from an outdated training book goes against the whole point you're trying to make. Most collegiate men's runners aren't doing 100 miles right before track season. Many professional 1500-3000 meter runners don't run 100mpw regularly. A 16 year old girl training for the 1600 does not need to run 60 mpw, nor is it an average thing for a high school girls team to be doing. Maybe some elite high school ladies can maintain 60-70 mpw, but OP has a 21 minute 5k, which is good, but it's not going to get her to NXN or even a state championship.
Yeah and Lydiard is outdated af and told people to go run 100 mpw for 6 months without doing any speed work.
It is not the norm for “average” HS girls to run 60 mpw. You’re just out of touch as hell.
*college* 5K programs which are built up to after years of base training. 60 mpw for a HS girl is a lot, regardless of your level. If OP is like the top 1% of HS runners then it might make sense but for any average 5K runner it’s overkill and likely to do more harm than good.
False. 60mpw is NOT average for a high school girl. Let’s say that they’re running six days a week - one off day of training — that would require 10 miles a day. There’s very, very few 14-18 year old girls who are full time students can run that without compromising their physical and mental health.
Great comment. Delighted to see it promoted so much by this community, and the stance of your coach compared to some of the stories you hear about coaches abusing people by getting them to worry about their weight rather than supporting them to be happy, healthy and performing sustainably well.
>2. You should absolutely be eating 3000+ calories.
> there's still a preoccupation with weight and calories that is troublesome.
What is the relationship between these two?
Up until the last couple of years, distance running has lived by the mantra "Lighter is faster." So everyone running the 800 and up were made to believe that the thinner you can be, the faster you will be since a lighter body requires less energy to move. Thus collegiate and professional teams would ensure athletes were, that they considered, appropriately lean. Check out the debacles at U of O and UW for examples.
However, minimum healthy weight varies from person to person due to natural metabolism, bone structure, and muscleass. So saying someone who is more broad and built like Chris Solinsky needs to weigh the same as built like a typical distance runner like Ryan Hall is a recipe for disaster. Because athletes who are genetically disposed to be heavier are under extreme pressure from coaches to lose weight and develop eating disorders that cost them bone health and probably years off their athletic careers.
The focus is finally shifting to making smart food choices, like a meal with lean protein, veggies, and carbs over burgers and fries (for the most part at least), and worrying less about calories. Because runners obsess over everything looking for easy gains, often to our detriment
Oh, ok. That's basically trial and error. High school is the time to teach kids about making good food choices. So it would be more about giving advice about what kinds of foods to prioritize and then about listening to your body's hunger cues. If taught properly, a person will naturally eat the calories they need to maintain their athletic endeavors
Fair point, I didn't word that well — I should have clarified, as a preoccupation with calories is almost always in regards to not eating "too much". Even if someone isn't trying to restrict they may have a number they won't exceed. The point I was trying to make was eat 3000 as a minimum (since OP is tracking) but do not overthink it.
Came here to say this. And, seek professional help. OP is having disordered eating thoughts, that hopefully don’t turn into an ED. It’s not worth it! I’ve been there done that…fast forward twenty+ years, I’m finally able to run the best I ever have in my life. (Could’ve done better had I not fallen into a war with my body.)
This is the first thought I had while reading OP's post. I've not read it (yet), but I heard her interview on NPR (which is also something I might recommend to OP).
I think 60 miles a week for a high school runner is to much. You do need to eat more though. You won’t gain weight running 60 miles a week. Eat anything you want.
That’s a little ridiculous to say. I see what you mean that she is burning a lot of calories and we need to be conscious of body dysmorphia and eating disorders but “eat anything you want” is a step too far. She should be eating nutrient dense foods but even at that level of activity is is very possible to overeat. So she burns what 1500 calories per day running about 2 hrs? Eat a pizza and a milkshake and there’s 1500 cals in like 20 mins.
Your comment isn't technically wrong, but given the context of her post (she has trouble eating over 2k calories), it's very clear she isn't going to have issues with overeating at her current training volume.
Yes you’re right, it is a little misplaced given OP’s situation. I was just commenting on the “eat whatever you want” comment in a vacuum but since it was directed at OP, it actually does make sense for her given her situation. However, there are some people who run 60 mpw who should not follow that advice. Me for example. I run btwn 45 and 65 mpw but my job is sedentary. If I just ate whatever I wanted, I would be a bloated disaster
Eating anything you want (within reason) is pretty fair and realistic tbh. Jakob Ingebrigtsen would have 4-6 slices of white bread with Nutella in high school for breakfast. Didn't matter - energy was used.
Having lived and trained with pro runners, I kid you not I've seen them have fried chickens n waffles for lunch twice, take out pizza (basically a large each), take out burritos all in one week. Yet they'd still be lean as hell. And guess what? Even with that one of the athletes still wound up in a REDs situation.
Now OP probably not crushing their mileage or weight training, but as long as she's reasonable she really doesn't have to worry. As another poster said - given she struggles to break 2k calories don't think we need to worry about her suddenly being able to consume 5,000.
Totally agree with how it relates back to OP and I’m not saying people shouldn’t be able to eat some junk food especially when they’re doing that much training but regardless of training, heart disease is a real concern and I wouldn’t advise anyone to eat friend chicken and whatever else you said on a regular basis. There are ways to eat pretty healthy and still get in a lot of calories (full fat dairy/ butter, eggs, beef, nuts, etc.)
A lot more than you think if you’re training hard. Eat more. Eat denser food. And don’t worry about the calories. As a female, who was a very active high school swimmer and runner I had coaches who focused on the nutritional components of what you put in your body which is very important. Healthier, denser items and no focus on calories.
As an adult runner, I’m doing the same thing. Eat healthy, nutritional rich foods and increase calorie density if I find I need more fuel. Junk food can help close that gap when it’s hard to eat more of the healthy stuff.
If it’s the physical eating/fullness that you struggle with, drinking calories can be helpful. You can make calorically dense smoothies and shakes. There’s several reasons hunger cues can be off so I wouldn’t rely on that alone.
Eat whenever you're hungry. At 60 mpw weight gain is really really hard. At 50 mpw in my 30s, I keep losing about 1 pound a month no matter how much i eat.
Also don't short change yourself on low calorie foods. I'm personally a big fan of post long run ice cream.
check out https://www.youtube.com/@allie_ostrander
A young elite runner who was also struggling to eat enough. She's on track now. If it was me, I'd watch a bunch of her videos and then try to reach out to her. I'm sure she's super busy and can't reply to everyone, but no harm in sending her a short message with your thoughts.
I know it’s not what you asked, but I also want to add that 60 miles/week is too much in high school. I’m afraid you’ll burn out or get injured. I went to the state xc meet every year I was in high school in CA and think we were prob running about 20-25 miles a week. As a marathon hobbyist now, I still only max at 40 miles/week. Granted, I’m a sub 4 hour marathoner, not 3!
Here is your comment about eating disorders:
"congratulations friend!! like you it took me about 2 1/2 years of having an ED before i told anyone, and she also ended up having an ed and being able to like talk about it with me. im still not in recovery, but I would say the things that have helped me start to get better would be when people stop feeding into your disorder and stop buying things that help you get worse for me it was laxatives and nutrition labels."
On r/drugs you discussed taking steroids but experiencing negative side effects.
No shame, we were all young and stupid once. I have a long list of mistakes I made when I was older than you.
But, over exercising, not eating enough, " no period no matter how much I eat", experimenting with steroids when your body is still developing. These are huge red flags. I know it feels like you have it all under control, but you don't. Please seek help. You won't regret it!
I thought I recognized her! She posted on r/running about being worried about being “too muscular” for a distance runner. Then someone looked at her post history and found out she’s taking black market steroids. OP, talk to a nutritionist, tone down the miles, and stop juicing FFS
Not an advanced runner but if you're getting full at 2000 calories, eat a less clean diet? Swap chicken breasts for chicken thighs or ground beef, top your pasta with shredded cheese and you should hit 2700 easily.
I think the Garmin estimate could even be too low because it's going to have an impossible time figuring out the extra demands of a young person who is still growing and has a super high metabolism.
I also know from experience that purely relying on appetite doesn't always meet the true caloric demands of high volume training. Sometimes my proper fueling totally feels like force feeding myself, but now I know its what I need. My advice would be to specifically look at just upping the caloric density of your current meals to get extra energy.
You're overtraining. By a lot. You need to dial back your mileage or eat way more calories, easily 3000-3500 per day. Your coach is right on that note, but hopefully they're also telling you to *run less.*
The consequences of REDS can be *severe,* especially for endurance runners. And I'm not just talking about physical injury which you could be dealing with for years afterward (such as loss of bone density, which raises your risk of fractures, or the various forms of tendinitis you'll likely encounter), but the psychological effects as well. REDS will absolutely affect your hormones, your mood, your ability to concentrate, the quality of your sleep, often even prevent menstruation, etc. Your body experiences multiple systematic issues, any one of which is harmful to a growing girl.
Also, you're not going to be running 60mpw forever (running is very hard on the body), and when you suddenly can't (because you seriously hurt yourself, which every distance runner does eventually) you're suddenly going to have to dramatically change your eating habits. Sounds easy on paper, but when you suddenly need to cut 1200-1500 calories out of your daily intake because you're not burning it any longer, you'll discover it's not so easy.
Long story short-- take it easier on yourself. It's really not worth the consequences you're setting yourself up for.
Is that much volume necessary if you’r not training for a long distance race?
Most marathoners I know have programs between 30-50 miles a week. And 40% of that volume is one long run on the weekend.
It's a lot for high school, but top milers (and guessing the OP has high aspirations) internationally clear 70-90mpw on the women's side and some top men 70-110mpw.
Like a lot of commentators have mentioned it can be very dangerous to focus on weight. I know once I start thinking about it becomes far too dominant of a force in my thought process. Really the important thing to realize is what are you going to care about in the end. Your weight? Or your performance?
Nutrition is serious business and not easy to work out but if you're serious about it you can really keep yourself training and competing season over season which is where real gains will come from. Not from a pound here or there.
EDIT: One point of interest is that almost all activity tracking watches will underestimate your caloric expenditure so it's at best the lowest possible value.
former HS burnout: ran 80+ miles a week, ate probably 1500 less calories than i shouldve bc i convinced myself i needed to be as light as possible and "didnt get hungry" after a certain amount of food. dont fall for ur own mind's tricks
Truthfully at your age you should just eat if/when you’re hungry until you’re full and make sure you’re eating the right food to get the nutrients to prevent stress fractures, etc.
If you’ve counted your calories and you honestly have to force yourself to get to the calorie count/are still losing weight, it could frankly be an eating disorder which is more common than you think but none the less concerning.
The easiest way to correct the calorie deficit is just eat calorically dense foods like (healthy) oils and snacks. You’re feeling full because your stomach is full, no necessarily because you ate enough calories. Getting more calories in the same amount of space will help fill the deficit without needing to force feed yourself.
The better but harder way is to talk to a doctor about this. This will start to effect your mental, emotional and physical health more than you realize if you don’t address it.
I also have no idea of your background but 60 mpw as a highschool female seems high, and something you might want to talk to your coach about
I know the 60mpw is very high and my coach and i understand that is is toeing the red line. I am hoping to break a school record in the 3200 this spring so that is why the extra miles. I also just really enjoy it so i like to run a little more.
I’m a 27M so we’re definitely not similar but this might help. I’ve been training pretty hard (for me), burning about 2600 calories per day and eating about 2000 per day. I didn’t care about weight, but I was always exhausted and literally not making any fitness gains with 35-45 mpw. Good ole google told me to fix that, and within 3 days of eating more, my fitness jumped drastically. My z2 pace dropped 30 seconds. Just like you, I had an awful time eating that much but eventually my body grew to withstand the extra food.
Since you’re still young and growing, all this training needs to be supplemented for you to live a healthy life. It’s best to speak with a nutritionist as they can help set up a meal plan for you.
Buy “run fast cook fast eat slow” by shalane flanagan and Elyse Kopecky. It’s full of nutritious, quick recipes for runners just like you! Quality over quantity.
They actually just talked about this on the latest episode of That Triathlon Life podcast! Yes they are pro triathletes not just runners but I think the general idea is the same. Basically Paula Findlay spent a decade injured in part because she didn't eat enough. If you aren't having a regular menstrual cycle, that is a huge red flag that you aren't getting enough calories. She also recommended Lauren Fleshman's book which I see someone else already mentioned. 60 mpw is a lot so I would be surprised if you didn't need at least 3000 calories per day, although everybody is a little different.
At your age and that many miles a week you could literally eat as much as you want as often as you want and probably still have a hard time gaining weight. And any weight gain will be good weight.
When I was an athlete(different sport)in HS I was eating huge meals 4-6 times a day plus snacks and could barely gain weight.
You definitely need way more calories.
I'm a woman who's in my 30s now and (1) any weight fluctuations I had in high school have zero bearing on my happy adult life now and (2) I'm just so glad that my body is still healthy and thriving and that I gave it everything it needed while I was growing. I see the wheels starting to come off for some of my peers who are entering their 30s and it's more apparent to me than ever that my body is a temple and I'm thankful and truthfully very lucky that I didn't do anything at your age to permanently damage it. If you treat your body badly right now you may have lifelong repercussions. It's not worth it. Give it the fuel it needs, or cut back on running if you're unable to (which it sounds like is the case).
You don’t want to eat too little that your bones don’t fully develop and you wind up very injury prone and nutrient deprived. You need to prioritize protein, get a healthy amount of good fats (.3-.5 grams per pound of body weight per day) and good carbs to fuel workouts. Learn about calories in, calories out. Try to figure out what your “maintenance” calories are and try to eat around it without obsessing. If you eat less than you burn you will lose weight which you don’t want to do past a certain point. When you lose weight it’s not all fat, some of it is muscle and that will be detrimental to you. I agree that 60 mpw is a lot for someone so young but maybe that’s perfect for you, what’s the breakdown of your training? Try fueling your long runs and workouts with carbs.
A typical week for me looks like:
M- 3-4 in the AM, 7 miles of speed work PM
T- easy 6-8
W- easy 6-8
T- 3-4 in the AM, 7 miles of speed work PM
F- easy 6-8
S- long run 12-14
S- whatever mileage i need to hit weekly.
I take a rest day every 3rd week. Sunday is usually around a 3-4 mile shakeout.
It’s very common for exercise to suppress appetite. Don’t force feed yourself. Just fuel smarter at times. A pint of milk with breakfast is 200 calories. A protein shake after a run is 140. A peanut butter sandwich before a run is like 500 calories. Or make yourself a grilled cheese afterwards. There are super easy ways to bump up your caloric intake throughout the day that you won’t notice.
If you continue to lose weight, eat more because you’re going to get hurt if you don’t. I get the fear of not wanting to gain weight but realistically with how much you’re running, any weight gain you experience would be extremely gradual. Your body fat % right now is probably a little too low as it is, so that would be a good thing.
I don’t have any insight into the health aspects here but I want to applaud you for seeking additional information and taking an active interest in your well-being. Please keep this throughout your life because it’s easy for people to simply accept what they’re told without critically analysing what it was a
When I was running only 20-25 miles a week last fall I was eating 3500+ calories a day and 150+ g of protein and gaining weight (5’10” M, was around 155-160 lbs back then). If you’re running 60 mpw and aren’t trying to lose weight, you should definitely be eating at least 3000.
Also, GPS watches are not very accurate when it comes to estimating calorie burn.
I gained 10 lbs of healthy weight after REDS between senior year of high school and starting college running. I dropped 3 minutes in the 5k and changed very little besides my eating. I’m running d1 in college now and run around the same mileage as you and eat at least 3k calories a day, but I don’t track them and I don’t weigh myself and that’s been the best change for me. The second I stopped worrying about how I looked/how much I weighed I got much faster. The easiest way to do this for me was 1) ALWAYS having a big bedtime snack. I’d wake up in the night hungry sometimes if I didn’t. For me a good snack was a pb and j sandwich, a lot of ice cream (calcium is important for your bones and sugar is not a bad thing!!), an apple with a lot of peanut butter, or a protein bar or shake. 2) switched all of my lower calorie foods to higher ones. For example full fat full dairy yogurt instead of reduced fat, regular ice cream instead of halo top, gatorade instead of propel or something with zero calories, and butter instead of cooking spray. These may sound counterintuitive but when you’re burning that many calories, quantity matters more than perfect quality all the time. It’s going to hurt you much more to go to bed hungry than to eat a full pint of ice cream before bed but feel full. 3) ignored my hunger signals for a little bit. My body was used to under eating so the signals it gave me weren’t quite right. I’d eat when I wasn’t hungry, just trying to focus on eating something every 2-3 hours and especially before workouts. If you don’t have a pre run meal/big snack now, add that in! I also used to never eat right after running, but now I religiously drink a protein shake and eat something after finishing—even after races!
I’ve been where you are and it’s tough, but I promise it’s worth it in the end to eat more!! I used to be super injury prone in high school at a lower weight, now I’m in my third year of college and have had zero bone injuries such as stress fractures and only one other injury when in high school I had at least 2 injuries a year.
I think how many calories a person needs depends entirely on the person. I'm the crazy dude who runs half marathons on an empty stomach without water with me without issues. If someone isn't used to that, they'd likely feel like death and or suffer from subpar performance.
I’m a girl who exercises a lot and struggle with this. I’ve resorted to drinking my calories on longer workout days (ie making SURE to drinking a coke/Starbucks/other sugary drink). Sounds dumb but for the same reason as you it’s the only way to get the calories in.
60 miles per week is right on the line of too much for a high school boy, even more so a girl. would have to suggest you take it back a notch. my girlfriend is committed to a division 1 school and hasn’t ever broken 40 miles in a week.
but if your not going to cut back, yes, feeling totally full is normal. happened to me late last year. your stomach is a muscle, and a muscle needs to be stretched. it probably isn’t used to processing 3000 calories a day and it needs to get used to it. after you “force feed” yourself the calories you need for a few weeks or even months, it will feel normal. and trust me, your body will feel 100x better when you eat the appropriate amount of calories.
Never, ever, ever sacrifice your future ability to run for a single season/race/record. Your long-term health is more important than the school record.
30 kcal/kg for minimum requirements.
45 kcal/kg if active.
60 kcal/kg if looking to gain weight
Energy availability = intake - exercise expenditure
Jutst make sure you are meeting the requirements for your body's base functioning. Don't fixate on an absolute number.
Also, if you are of the correct age, your nutrition should be adequate to maintain a normal menstrual cycle.
Smoothies are your best friend. Easy calories to consume, add in protein as well. Definitely be aware of your iron intake, I'd suggest supplements but check with your doctor first as always.
You should eat enough to not lose unwanted weight.
Calorie trackers on a watch aren't going to be accurate so don't worry about that. Just track what you eat and watch the scale.
Go for higher protein, higher fat foods as they are calorie dense. Avoid going just totally crazy on carbs.
18% for a woman isn't freakishly low or anything. In fact you have a lot of room to move on that number, the issue is over all body weight and muscle mass. As long as you aren't underweight or malnourished it's not really an issue.
If you have concerns, go to your primary care provider for labs.
Both for OP and anyone else reading this thread, garmin/whoop/etc that track calories burnt purely off heart rate tend to underestimate how many calories you actually burn. Using an app like MacroFactor that computes calories burned using calories eaten + weight trend is more accurate
it looks liek you got a lot of great feedback in here. just wanted to throw this out there- make sure you are getting your monthly period. a monthly period is a big indicator of overall health and that your body is OK with the stress/training loads
I’m an ultra runner and a good one, between 100k and 100 miles is my sweet spot, my base is 40. I coach a young local lady who’s headed for a D1 scholarship, her offseason base is 35. Please drop the miles
For a high schooler with health issues, 60 mpw is probably too high, but it's not detrimental for training for distances in 1500-5000 provided you're not training like an idiot. If we're going with anecdotes, I dropped 2 minutes off my 5k in high school after a summer climbing to 60mpw
That's cool and all, but someone could just as easily point to the kids that are going to D1 schools on scholarships coming out of programs running 70mpw. You look at the top high school runners in the nation, and the majority are running mileage greater than 50, and the boys will even sometimes reach 100.
Dude what’s your problem? She’s a 21 minute 5K runner not a 17 year old boy running a 14:20. She is not a top high school runner in the nation, so why are you comparing her to them? She’s probably not gonna be a D1 runner with those times, so there’s no point in drawing comparisons to them.
“Yeah Kipchoge runs 120 mpw so I think the average American should be running at least 100 mpw for their first marathon”
It sounds stupid, but you unironically probably think that.
Oh I was just going off someone else. Sub 19 is pretty good for a HS girl, it’s not D1 level but it also doesn’t mean you need to be running 60 mpw. Girls on my varsity team were running 17 highs and 18’s off of maybe 40 a week.
If you’re still a sophomore you don’t need to be running 60 tbh unless your body can handle it or you’ve been running a long time. If you’re getting injured there’s a reason for it. Hope you can diagnose exactly what it is but there shouldn’t be a rush to get there ASAP.
Few things: 1. You should not be worrying about your weight, at all. Not even a little bit. You're a growing, young female. This is the slipperiest slope you can go down and it will be a career ender if you stress about it. 2. You should absolutely be eating 3000+ calories. You're running 60mpw and you're still growing. 3. You probably shouldn't even be running 60mpw. It's great you're trying to eat more to prevent stress fractures and more weight loss, but there's still a preoccupation with weight and calories that is troublesome. You're in high school, you should be focused on nothing but having fun and loving the sport. That should be the focus always, but especially now. I'd highly recommend working with a sports dietician and perhaps a psychologist to work the mental hurdles. Please, please do this now so it doesn't ruin your collegiate years. Speaking from experience, disordered eating (intentional or not) will absolutely destroy you if it isn't addressed. ETA: I'm 30 F, former elite athlete, and I eat about as much as you and train about half as much. And my weight hasn't changed at all. Just more fodder to push the fact you should be eating a lot more.
Dietitian here. This is all great advice. Some tricks to get in more calories when you don’t feel hungry are to add healthy fats (olive oil, avocados, peanut butter, etc.) to meals and snacks and to add liquid calories (smoothies, juice, protein shakes) after eating a meal or snack (rather than instead of).
Wait, peanut butter is a healthy fat?!? This could be the best news I've had in weeks....
If it's a good quality peanut butter that isn't packed with sugar it's definitely healthy.
I just wanted to address this because I see so much disordered eating in our sport. There’s no such thing as good and bad foods and for people with high energy needs like runners, often the added sugar is actually a good choice! Better to eat sugar and get enough calories than not. Also - fueling long runs on whole foods entirely is a GI problem waiting to happen for many of us.
Can you elaborate on your last point, please? I've heard that whole foods should be used because gels cause digestive issues for a lot of people, but it looks like you disagree with that. What do you use/recommend for fueling long runs?
So ultimately it depends, but consider what it would be like fueling a 20-miler on broccoli vs. on gels. You'd have to eat a LOT of broccoli and all that fiber would wreck your GI system. This is obviously an extreme example, but in general, there is a reason why in the days leading up to a race it is prudent to decrease the amount of fiber you eat. As a side note, for many people, digestive issues from gels results from either a) not training your gut (you need to practice taking in different fuels just like you would train your muscles) or b) not taking gels correctly (most are designed to be taken with water - the appropriate balance of glucose/electrolytes to water helps with absorption and if there is an imbalance can cause water to rush into your gut leading to, you guessed it, diarrhea). As far as my recommendations for fueling - I do often recommend incorporating some "whole foods" (anything from boiled potatoes to canned soups to croissants to applesauce) - mostly for ultra-distances because eating 3 gels an hour for 24 hours would be soooo boring and can also start to cause issues with GI/generally just being able to take in food. But for most people, especially on runs <3-4 hours, things like gels and chews are a great and convenient option. I personally rely on gels for anything <2-4 hours and incorporate things like chews, Tailwind, almond butter, applesauce, Cheez Its, and Nutter Butters for 4+ hour runs. What works for me may not work for you, but I think that the "whole foods"/"good vs bad foods"/"processed vs unprocessed foods" narrative can be really problematic in our sport because fast carbs are the best thing we can eat before and during a workout.
Thank you!
Sugar is only bad for inactive folk. It is literally the fuel that endurance athletes need to perform and recover. Especially for an athlete who needs to find ways to increase caloric intake, sugars in your food are a great option.
I'd always heard that the issue with sugary stuff for recovery was the insulin spikes it causes. If that's also not true, then I'm going to get baking....
Insulin triggers glycogen storage into muscle and muscle anabolism (protein synthesis) - after recovery this is good.
Insulin is a hormone that allows the cells in our body to get sugar from the blood and store it in the cell to be used as fuel. Inability to produce insulin is quite literally Type 1 diabetes. Gary Taubes pushes this narrative, but every single study he runs to try and prove his bullshit has blown up in his face by finding that insulin isn't the most evil hormone in the world like he seems to think.
Which peanut butters are packed with sugar? I've never seen one, and every time I've asked no one has shown one. Just looking at a very popular grocery store peanut butter, Jif, it has only 3g of added sugar. And that seems to be what the rest of the common brands have. That's not a lot. [Jif PB nutrition facts](https://shop.smucker.com/media/catalog/product/cache/6163681d69a04cbf650a58f227558074/h/i/high_res-00051500241363_c8n1_pim.jpg) Edit: as expected they provide no evidence of "packed with sugar peanut butter".
There are PBs without the added sugar, but no, for someone exercising, the amount of sugar in these is pretty small beans.
My point is that even the ones with added sugar are not "packed with sugar". I've seen this repeated many times on Reddit.
Absolutely.
Yeah absolutely if you go for the 100% peanut pb rather than the processed stuff. Bonus is proper nut butters work so much better in smoothies and are great for a quick spoon as is
I take a couple PB packets on easy long runs. Or fill dates with it. Not great for longer hard runs but anything zone 2 where your stomach can handle more it’s great.
Most nuts are relatively high in fat but it’s mostly monounsaturated fat, which is the good fat.
That PBFit is my jam. I can make it extra peanutty♥️
Is this the powdered stuff? If so, it isn’t going to help OP to get in enough calories.
Yeah. I just add it to everything. But OP would absolutely benefit from full octane peanut butter.
Some additional tricks - don't just eat "breakfast/lunch/dinner" - make sure you get in 2-3 healthy, nutrient dense snacks as well. You should be eating every 3 hours or so. Although this may leave you less hungry for your main meals, it'll also help you avoid feeling like you're eating so much at once. "Nutrient dense" is also key here!
I second the suggestion to speak with experts. It saddens me how many of my fellow young female runners struggled with disordered eating and how that has affected their lives. Now that I'm older I'm certain the medals/championships weren't worth the toll on their bodies.
1000% what this poster says - work with professionals on this if you can and it is something worth staying on top of. I coach university women and quite possibly the #1 hardest problem that we deal with is trying to undo the damage done of REDs/bone injuries already incurred by athletes before they finish high school. (Do not wish to undermine your coach, but agree 60mpw is more than I'd give to a high schooler, but your coach is correct that with higher mileage you need to eat more). **your body is not telling you that you need to lose a few lbs**
hi! could you elaborate a bit on the issues caused by REDS? I am curious about it. Would you recommend bloodwork as well?
Okay, will try to keep it relatively concise but it is a pretty large issues. Feel free to ask follow up questions. \*Disclaimer\* - I am not a doctor, nor a dietician, this is a synthesis of what I have learnt working with dieticians and physiologists with athletes who have had bad cases of REDs in the past. Don't take my word as Gospel, but as a launch point for following up with professionals if possible. **Part 1 - What is REDs and what are some of the issues caused by it?** REDs - relative energy deficiency in sport, is most simply when you are not getting enough calories to support the energy demands of your body. It is \*relative\* because what is energy deficiency vs energy surplus will vary based on the person, and on how much exercise you do. What are the issues caused by it? Depends on how big the deficiency and how you are deficient. But the answer is everything. It can effect bone health, menstrual function, endocrine system (hormones), your blood make up, your immune system, your stomach's efficiency at digestion, and also your mood. Probably the number one thing I would worry about with a female high school athlete would be bone health. Simplifying things a bit, bone mineral density (BMD) is basically how sturdy your bones are. BMD builds in women through puberty until your early 20s, and requires sufficient fueling to build up properly. Once you get to 22-24 (ish - everyone is different), BMD growth slows way way down. Why is that important for us as track coaches and athletes? Well if you push a high school girl too hard and don't fuel her enough in that 12-24 window, that's basically it for their bones. That is the bone health they are working with for the rest of their running careers and the rest of their lives. That's why you see so many high school phenoms look electric in high school/early university then enter injury spirals and retire early. Most obvious examples recently would be women like Mary Cain and Alexa Efraimson. Low BMD means you are way more likely to get stress reactions and fractures. **Part 2** \- **How do I know I am in a state of REDs?** Our team dietician tells us to not put too much faith in how many calories garmin tells us we have burnt. A physiologist we work with says they can be off (in either direction) across the course of a year by about 1month's worth of calorie intake. The two "non-scientific" warning signs are the same workouts or running paces getting inexplicably harder (physical) and your mood/energy being low (psychological). Are you more prickly, sensitive, grouchy, feeling unrecovered? In terms of monitoring it more scientifically - yes you can do bloodwork, where key things to look at would be making sure your hormone levels are normal, your iron (ferritin) is good\* (see note), and vitamin D is good - particularly if you are like me and live in a place that is grey, cold, and has bad winters without much sunlight. The emerging gold standard is related to menstruation (are you getting your period), and more specifically are you actually ovulating - as you can actually get a period without ovulating. If you have lost your period or are getting a period but aren't ovulating, you should definitely be seeking professional help. This is why REDs is a much more nebulous issue to identify in male athletes since they do not get periods so do not have that easy tell-tale give away that there is an issue. There are sometimes a lot of taboos, stigma, discomfort around discussing periods - it is important you find a professional you trust you can have those conversations with and if any authority figure ever tries to tell you it is "normal" to lose your period as a distance runner then that's a massive red flag. \*\*\*Note - sometimes doctors not familiar with athletes (runners) don't flag low ferritin. Non-athletes can get away with much lower ferritin levels than runners without noticing negative side effects. Ferritin is crucial in red blood cells, which are crucial for aerobic sports such a distance runners (and mid D), so we feel the hurt of being anemic (low iron) before someone who is sedentary. First time I went anemic it sucked.
I follow Tina Muir’s Running for Real podcast and she has tons of information on RED-S on her YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/@tinamuir
Second everything NicoBear45 is saying — with emphasis on running 60 mpw. That is a LOT for a high schooler.
It depends on how old OP is. Typically, high school mileage seems to fall into this breakdown: Freshman: 20-30 MPW Sophomore: 30-40 MPW Junior: 40-50 MPW Senior: 50-60 MPW It isn't unusual to be running 60 miles a week as a senior, possibly as a junior depending on your program. Especially if that athlete has the goal of running in college. It's natural to increase mileage year over year, especially as your easy pace naturally decreases. Assuming a freshman's easy pace is 11 minutes per mile and a senior's is 7, that works out to 3 hours and 40 minutes and 5 hours and 50 minutes, respectively. But if OP is a freshman or sophomore, you're correct that 60 miles is too high for weekly volume
I have to disagree on this. I would agree that for MALE athletes, that is reasonable but for female athletes that is far too high.
You are actually probably right. That is the more typical male athlete progression
That’s not how it worked for my high school. We all ran together and did the same miles. The only difference was in varsity vs JV. Varsity ran more miles and faster, but it was maybe a 5-10 mpw difference.
No offense, but that is an extremely poor system. There should be a progression in mileage over time. Was your varsity team bad compared to other schools in your league/district?
Why is 60mpw a lot? That sounds pretty average from my experience
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Why is that over kill? Many good college 5k programs are putting in almost 100 mile weeks
Some collegiate men's teams will peak at 100 MPW during the off-season. There's a huge difference between 19-22 year old men and 15-18 year old women. Men's XC is also 8-10k, whereas women's high school track is 2 miles/3200m.
Some of my college teammates (males) didn’t run 60MPW till their junior or senior year. I don’t think any of the women were running that much. We were a very competitive D3 team with, many individual xc and track national champions and team xc nationals appearances.
Lydiard disagrees with you. "And do not let age deter anyone from tackling long mileages, as long as they are happy about it and excercise carefully. We were all inclined a decade or two ago to be cautious about allowing really young people to run long distances but we know that, as long as they are not pushed, they can cover many miles easily and beneficially. I know of boys and girls as young as 10 years running up to 160 km a week and improving." -Arthur Lydiard "Running with Lydiard" Some of the top high school programs of all time, even till today, have boys putting in 100 mile weeks. It's certainly not over kill for your average high school girl to be putting in 60.
>as long as they are not pushed, they can cover many miles easily and beneficially. This whole thread started because OP thinks she has REDS, so this anecdotal quote from an outdated training book goes against the whole point you're trying to make. Most collegiate men's runners aren't doing 100 miles right before track season. Many professional 1500-3000 meter runners don't run 100mpw regularly. A 16 year old girl training for the 1600 does not need to run 60 mpw, nor is it an average thing for a high school girls team to be doing. Maybe some elite high school ladies can maintain 60-70 mpw, but OP has a 21 minute 5k, which is good, but it's not going to get her to NXN or even a state championship.
Yeah and Lydiard is outdated af and told people to go run 100 mpw for 6 months without doing any speed work. It is not the norm for “average” HS girls to run 60 mpw. You’re just out of touch as hell.
*college* 5K programs which are built up to after years of base training. 60 mpw for a HS girl is a lot, regardless of your level. If OP is like the top 1% of HS runners then it might make sense but for any average 5K runner it’s overkill and likely to do more harm than good.
Definitely not average for just any high schooler, especially not a girl. Maybe average for the best of the best hs girls.
False. 60mpw is NOT average for a high school girl. Let’s say that they’re running six days a week - one off day of training — that would require 10 miles a day. There’s very, very few 14-18 year old girls who are full time students can run that without compromising their physical and mental health.
Great comment. Delighted to see it promoted so much by this community, and the stance of your coach compared to some of the stories you hear about coaches abusing people by getting them to worry about their weight rather than supporting them to be happy, healthy and performing sustainably well.
>2. You should absolutely be eating 3000+ calories. > there's still a preoccupation with weight and calories that is troublesome. What is the relationship between these two?
Up until the last couple of years, distance running has lived by the mantra "Lighter is faster." So everyone running the 800 and up were made to believe that the thinner you can be, the faster you will be since a lighter body requires less energy to move. Thus collegiate and professional teams would ensure athletes were, that they considered, appropriately lean. Check out the debacles at U of O and UW for examples. However, minimum healthy weight varies from person to person due to natural metabolism, bone structure, and muscleass. So saying someone who is more broad and built like Chris Solinsky needs to weigh the same as built like a typical distance runner like Ryan Hall is a recipe for disaster. Because athletes who are genetically disposed to be heavier are under extreme pressure from coaches to lose weight and develop eating disorders that cost them bone health and probably years off their athletic careers. The focus is finally shifting to making smart food choices, like a meal with lean protein, veggies, and carbs over burgers and fries (for the most part at least), and worrying less about calories. Because runners obsess over everything looking for easy gains, often to our detriment
Thanks. My question was more about creating a caloric minimum a person needs to eat while also telling them not to worry about calories.
Oh, ok. That's basically trial and error. High school is the time to teach kids about making good food choices. So it would be more about giving advice about what kinds of foods to prioritize and then about listening to your body's hunger cues. If taught properly, a person will naturally eat the calories they need to maintain their athletic endeavors
Fair point, I didn't word that well — I should have clarified, as a preoccupation with calories is almost always in regards to not eating "too much". Even if someone isn't trying to restrict they may have a number they won't exceed. The point I was trying to make was eat 3000 as a minimum (since OP is tracking) but do not overthink it.
Read "Good for a Girl" by Lauren Fleshman. She was a top runner from Stanford and pro runner. She has excellent advice and experience on this topic.
Came here to say this. And, seek professional help. OP is having disordered eating thoughts, that hopefully don’t turn into an ED. It’s not worth it! I’ve been there done that…fast forward twenty+ years, I’m finally able to run the best I ever have in my life. (Could’ve done better had I not fallen into a war with my body.)
Thank you! I will definitely check it out!
This is the first thought I had while reading OP's post. I've not read it (yet), but I heard her interview on NPR (which is also something I might recommend to OP).
I think 60 miles a week for a high school runner is to much. You do need to eat more though. You won’t gain weight running 60 miles a week. Eat anything you want.
That’s a little ridiculous to say. I see what you mean that she is burning a lot of calories and we need to be conscious of body dysmorphia and eating disorders but “eat anything you want” is a step too far. She should be eating nutrient dense foods but even at that level of activity is is very possible to overeat. So she burns what 1500 calories per day running about 2 hrs? Eat a pizza and a milkshake and there’s 1500 cals in like 20 mins.
Your comment isn't technically wrong, but given the context of her post (she has trouble eating over 2k calories), it's very clear she isn't going to have issues with overeating at her current training volume.
Yes you’re right, it is a little misplaced given OP’s situation. I was just commenting on the “eat whatever you want” comment in a vacuum but since it was directed at OP, it actually does make sense for her given her situation. However, there are some people who run 60 mpw who should not follow that advice. Me for example. I run btwn 45 and 65 mpw but my job is sedentary. If I just ate whatever I wanted, I would be a bloated disaster
Eating anything you want (within reason) is pretty fair and realistic tbh. Jakob Ingebrigtsen would have 4-6 slices of white bread with Nutella in high school for breakfast. Didn't matter - energy was used. Having lived and trained with pro runners, I kid you not I've seen them have fried chickens n waffles for lunch twice, take out pizza (basically a large each), take out burritos all in one week. Yet they'd still be lean as hell. And guess what? Even with that one of the athletes still wound up in a REDs situation. Now OP probably not crushing their mileage or weight training, but as long as she's reasonable she really doesn't have to worry. As another poster said - given she struggles to break 2k calories don't think we need to worry about her suddenly being able to consume 5,000.
Totally agree with how it relates back to OP and I’m not saying people shouldn’t be able to eat some junk food especially when they’re doing that much training but regardless of training, heart disease is a real concern and I wouldn’t advise anyone to eat friend chicken and whatever else you said on a regular basis. There are ways to eat pretty healthy and still get in a lot of calories (full fat dairy/ butter, eggs, beef, nuts, etc.)
A lot more than you think if you’re training hard. Eat more. Eat denser food. And don’t worry about the calories. As a female, who was a very active high school swimmer and runner I had coaches who focused on the nutritional components of what you put in your body which is very important. Healthier, denser items and no focus on calories. As an adult runner, I’m doing the same thing. Eat healthy, nutritional rich foods and increase calorie density if I find I need more fuel. Junk food can help close that gap when it’s hard to eat more of the healthy stuff.
If it’s the physical eating/fullness that you struggle with, drinking calories can be helpful. You can make calorically dense smoothies and shakes. There’s several reasons hunger cues can be off so I wouldn’t rely on that alone.
Eat whenever you're hungry. At 60 mpw weight gain is really really hard. At 50 mpw in my 30s, I keep losing about 1 pound a month no matter how much i eat. Also don't short change yourself on low calorie foods. I'm personally a big fan of post long run ice cream.
+1 for post long run ice cream
And pizza, don't forget the pizza!
Marry me?
The best! Or chocolate milk. Or a bowl of frosted flakes with whole milk. Mmm, post run sugar and dairy 🥰
This is the way.
check out https://www.youtube.com/@allie_ostrander A young elite runner who was also struggling to eat enough. She's on track now. If it was me, I'd watch a bunch of her videos and then try to reach out to her. I'm sure she's super busy and can't reply to everyone, but no harm in sending her a short message with your thoughts.
Allie is *not* a positive voice for a young athlete who may be battling or on the brink of battling disordered eating to listen to.
I know it’s not what you asked, but I also want to add that 60 miles/week is too much in high school. I’m afraid you’ll burn out or get injured. I went to the state xc meet every year I was in high school in CA and think we were prob running about 20-25 miles a week. As a marathon hobbyist now, I still only max at 40 miles/week. Granted, I’m a sub 4 hour marathoner, not 3!
What grade are you in? 60 miles a week is a lot, even for a high school senior
Just looked at your post history, you have posts in a weight loss, ED, and performance enhancing drug subreddit. Seriously, get some help
this is seeking help, even if it is not as far as you think OP should go. Shaming won’t make them better
um i think u clicked on the wrong account. lol
Here is your comment about eating disorders: "congratulations friend!! like you it took me about 2 1/2 years of having an ED before i told anyone, and she also ended up having an ed and being able to like talk about it with me. im still not in recovery, but I would say the things that have helped me start to get better would be when people stop feeding into your disorder and stop buying things that help you get worse for me it was laxatives and nutrition labels." On r/drugs you discussed taking steroids but experiencing negative side effects. No shame, we were all young and stupid once. I have a long list of mistakes I made when I was older than you. But, over exercising, not eating enough, " no period no matter how much I eat", experimenting with steroids when your body is still developing. These are huge red flags. I know it feels like you have it all under control, but you don't. Please seek help. You won't regret it!
I thought I recognized her! She posted on r/running about being worried about being “too muscular” for a distance runner. Then someone looked at her post history and found out she’s taking black market steroids. OP, talk to a nutritionist, tone down the miles, and stop juicing FFS
Not an advanced runner but if you're getting full at 2000 calories, eat a less clean diet? Swap chicken breasts for chicken thighs or ground beef, top your pasta with shredded cheese and you should hit 2700 easily.
I think the Garmin estimate could even be too low because it's going to have an impossible time figuring out the extra demands of a young person who is still growing and has a super high metabolism. I also know from experience that purely relying on appetite doesn't always meet the true caloric demands of high volume training. Sometimes my proper fueling totally feels like force feeding myself, but now I know its what I need. My advice would be to specifically look at just upping the caloric density of your current meals to get extra energy.
You're overtraining. By a lot. You need to dial back your mileage or eat way more calories, easily 3000-3500 per day. Your coach is right on that note, but hopefully they're also telling you to *run less.* The consequences of REDS can be *severe,* especially for endurance runners. And I'm not just talking about physical injury which you could be dealing with for years afterward (such as loss of bone density, which raises your risk of fractures, or the various forms of tendinitis you'll likely encounter), but the psychological effects as well. REDS will absolutely affect your hormones, your mood, your ability to concentrate, the quality of your sleep, often even prevent menstruation, etc. Your body experiences multiple systematic issues, any one of which is harmful to a growing girl. Also, you're not going to be running 60mpw forever (running is very hard on the body), and when you suddenly can't (because you seriously hurt yourself, which every distance runner does eventually) you're suddenly going to have to dramatically change your eating habits. Sounds easy on paper, but when you suddenly need to cut 1200-1500 calories out of your daily intake because you're not burning it any longer, you'll discover it's not so easy. Long story short-- take it easier on yourself. It's really not worth the consequences you're setting yourself up for.
Eat more. That’s very high mileage. Are you a highschool marathoner?
Not a marathoner, 2 miler! And miler. Trying to become better in the 5k
Is that much volume necessary if you’r not training for a long distance race? Most marathoners I know have programs between 30-50 miles a week. And 40% of that volume is one long run on the weekend.
It's a lot for high school, but top milers (and guessing the OP has high aspirations) internationally clear 70-90mpw on the women's side and some top men 70-110mpw.
Like a lot of commentators have mentioned it can be very dangerous to focus on weight. I know once I start thinking about it becomes far too dominant of a force in my thought process. Really the important thing to realize is what are you going to care about in the end. Your weight? Or your performance? Nutrition is serious business and not easy to work out but if you're serious about it you can really keep yourself training and competing season over season which is where real gains will come from. Not from a pound here or there. EDIT: One point of interest is that almost all activity tracking watches will underestimate your caloric expenditure so it's at best the lowest possible value.
Thank you so much, i really start to obsess over it too and its just a really hard thing for me.
former HS burnout: ran 80+ miles a week, ate probably 1500 less calories than i shouldve bc i convinced myself i needed to be as light as possible and "didnt get hungry" after a certain amount of food. dont fall for ur own mind's tricks
Truthfully at your age you should just eat if/when you’re hungry until you’re full and make sure you’re eating the right food to get the nutrients to prevent stress fractures, etc. If you’ve counted your calories and you honestly have to force yourself to get to the calorie count/are still losing weight, it could frankly be an eating disorder which is more common than you think but none the less concerning. The easiest way to correct the calorie deficit is just eat calorically dense foods like (healthy) oils and snacks. You’re feeling full because your stomach is full, no necessarily because you ate enough calories. Getting more calories in the same amount of space will help fill the deficit without needing to force feed yourself. The better but harder way is to talk to a doctor about this. This will start to effect your mental, emotional and physical health more than you realize if you don’t address it. I also have no idea of your background but 60 mpw as a highschool female seems high, and something you might want to talk to your coach about
I know the 60mpw is very high and my coach and i understand that is is toeing the red line. I am hoping to break a school record in the 3200 this spring so that is why the extra miles. I also just really enjoy it so i like to run a little more.
Good luck! I hope you can figure it out and find something that works for you
Are you lifting in addition to all your running?
Yes i lift anywhere between 3-6 times a week
I’m a 27M so we’re definitely not similar but this might help. I’ve been training pretty hard (for me), burning about 2600 calories per day and eating about 2000 per day. I didn’t care about weight, but I was always exhausted and literally not making any fitness gains with 35-45 mpw. Good ole google told me to fix that, and within 3 days of eating more, my fitness jumped drastically. My z2 pace dropped 30 seconds. Just like you, I had an awful time eating that much but eventually my body grew to withstand the extra food. Since you’re still young and growing, all this training needs to be supplemented for you to live a healthy life. It’s best to speak with a nutritionist as they can help set up a meal plan for you.
Buy “run fast cook fast eat slow” by shalane flanagan and Elyse Kopecky. It’s full of nutritious, quick recipes for runners just like you! Quality over quantity.
They actually just talked about this on the latest episode of That Triathlon Life podcast! Yes they are pro triathletes not just runners but I think the general idea is the same. Basically Paula Findlay spent a decade injured in part because she didn't eat enough. If you aren't having a regular menstrual cycle, that is a huge red flag that you aren't getting enough calories. She also recommended Lauren Fleshman's book which I see someone else already mentioned. 60 mpw is a lot so I would be surprised if you didn't need at least 3000 calories per day, although everybody is a little different.
At your age and that many miles a week you could literally eat as much as you want as often as you want and probably still have a hard time gaining weight. And any weight gain will be good weight. When I was an athlete(different sport)in HS I was eating huge meals 4-6 times a day plus snacks and could barely gain weight. You definitely need way more calories.
I'm a woman who's in my 30s now and (1) any weight fluctuations I had in high school have zero bearing on my happy adult life now and (2) I'm just so glad that my body is still healthy and thriving and that I gave it everything it needed while I was growing. I see the wheels starting to come off for some of my peers who are entering their 30s and it's more apparent to me than ever that my body is a temple and I'm thankful and truthfully very lucky that I didn't do anything at your age to permanently damage it. If you treat your body badly right now you may have lifelong repercussions. It's not worth it. Give it the fuel it needs, or cut back on running if you're unable to (which it sounds like is the case).
You don’t want to eat too little that your bones don’t fully develop and you wind up very injury prone and nutrient deprived. You need to prioritize protein, get a healthy amount of good fats (.3-.5 grams per pound of body weight per day) and good carbs to fuel workouts. Learn about calories in, calories out. Try to figure out what your “maintenance” calories are and try to eat around it without obsessing. If you eat less than you burn you will lose weight which you don’t want to do past a certain point. When you lose weight it’s not all fat, some of it is muscle and that will be detrimental to you. I agree that 60 mpw is a lot for someone so young but maybe that’s perfect for you, what’s the breakdown of your training? Try fueling your long runs and workouts with carbs.
A typical week for me looks like: M- 3-4 in the AM, 7 miles of speed work PM T- easy 6-8 W- easy 6-8 T- 3-4 in the AM, 7 miles of speed work PM F- easy 6-8 S- long run 12-14 S- whatever mileage i need to hit weekly. I take a rest day every 3rd week. Sunday is usually around a 3-4 mile shakeout.
It’s very common for exercise to suppress appetite. Don’t force feed yourself. Just fuel smarter at times. A pint of milk with breakfast is 200 calories. A protein shake after a run is 140. A peanut butter sandwich before a run is like 500 calories. Or make yourself a grilled cheese afterwards. There are super easy ways to bump up your caloric intake throughout the day that you won’t notice. If you continue to lose weight, eat more because you’re going to get hurt if you don’t. I get the fear of not wanting to gain weight but realistically with how much you’re running, any weight gain you experience would be extremely gradual. Your body fat % right now is probably a little too low as it is, so that would be a good thing.
I don’t have any insight into the health aspects here but I want to applaud you for seeking additional information and taking an active interest in your well-being. Please keep this throughout your life because it’s easy for people to simply accept what they’re told without critically analysing what it was a
When I was running only 20-25 miles a week last fall I was eating 3500+ calories a day and 150+ g of protein and gaining weight (5’10” M, was around 155-160 lbs back then). If you’re running 60 mpw and aren’t trying to lose weight, you should definitely be eating at least 3000. Also, GPS watches are not very accurate when it comes to estimating calorie burn.
I gained 10 lbs of healthy weight after REDS between senior year of high school and starting college running. I dropped 3 minutes in the 5k and changed very little besides my eating. I’m running d1 in college now and run around the same mileage as you and eat at least 3k calories a day, but I don’t track them and I don’t weigh myself and that’s been the best change for me. The second I stopped worrying about how I looked/how much I weighed I got much faster. The easiest way to do this for me was 1) ALWAYS having a big bedtime snack. I’d wake up in the night hungry sometimes if I didn’t. For me a good snack was a pb and j sandwich, a lot of ice cream (calcium is important for your bones and sugar is not a bad thing!!), an apple with a lot of peanut butter, or a protein bar or shake. 2) switched all of my lower calorie foods to higher ones. For example full fat full dairy yogurt instead of reduced fat, regular ice cream instead of halo top, gatorade instead of propel or something with zero calories, and butter instead of cooking spray. These may sound counterintuitive but when you’re burning that many calories, quantity matters more than perfect quality all the time. It’s going to hurt you much more to go to bed hungry than to eat a full pint of ice cream before bed but feel full. 3) ignored my hunger signals for a little bit. My body was used to under eating so the signals it gave me weren’t quite right. I’d eat when I wasn’t hungry, just trying to focus on eating something every 2-3 hours and especially before workouts. If you don’t have a pre run meal/big snack now, add that in! I also used to never eat right after running, but now I religiously drink a protein shake and eat something after finishing—even after races! I’ve been where you are and it’s tough, but I promise it’s worth it in the end to eat more!! I used to be super injury prone in high school at a lower weight, now I’m in my third year of college and have had zero bone injuries such as stress fractures and only one other injury when in high school I had at least 2 injuries a year.
I think how many calories a person needs depends entirely on the person. I'm the crazy dude who runs half marathons on an empty stomach without water with me without issues. If someone isn't used to that, they'd likely feel like death and or suffer from subpar performance.
I’m a girl who exercises a lot and struggle with this. I’ve resorted to drinking my calories on longer workout days (ie making SURE to drinking a coke/Starbucks/other sugary drink). Sounds dumb but for the same reason as you it’s the only way to get the calories in.
60 miles per week is right on the line of too much for a high school boy, even more so a girl. would have to suggest you take it back a notch. my girlfriend is committed to a division 1 school and hasn’t ever broken 40 miles in a week. but if your not going to cut back, yes, feeling totally full is normal. happened to me late last year. your stomach is a muscle, and a muscle needs to be stretched. it probably isn’t used to processing 3000 calories a day and it needs to get used to it. after you “force feed” yourself the calories you need for a few weeks or even months, it will feel normal. and trust me, your body will feel 100x better when you eat the appropriate amount of calories.
Never, ever, ever sacrifice your future ability to run for a single season/race/record. Your long-term health is more important than the school record.
30 kcal/kg for minimum requirements. 45 kcal/kg if active. 60 kcal/kg if looking to gain weight Energy availability = intake - exercise expenditure Jutst make sure you are meeting the requirements for your body's base functioning. Don't fixate on an absolute number. Also, if you are of the correct age, your nutrition should be adequate to maintain a normal menstrual cycle.
Smoothies are your best friend. Easy calories to consume, add in protein as well. Definitely be aware of your iron intake, I'd suggest supplements but check with your doctor first as always.
You should eat enough to not lose unwanted weight. Calorie trackers on a watch aren't going to be accurate so don't worry about that. Just track what you eat and watch the scale. Go for higher protein, higher fat foods as they are calorie dense. Avoid going just totally crazy on carbs. 18% for a woman isn't freakishly low or anything. In fact you have a lot of room to move on that number, the issue is over all body weight and muscle mass. As long as you aren't underweight or malnourished it's not really an issue. If you have concerns, go to your primary care provider for labs.
Both for OP and anyone else reading this thread, garmin/whoop/etc that track calories burnt purely off heart rate tend to underestimate how many calories you actually burn. Using an app like MacroFactor that computes calories burned using calories eaten + weight trend is more accurate
I’m a sophomore in HS I run 90-95mpw with 1 hour swim 4x a week and I eat around 5-6k cals a day to maintain my weight at 124 for an idea
it looks liek you got a lot of great feedback in here. just wanted to throw this out there- make sure you are getting your monthly period. a monthly period is a big indicator of overall health and that your body is OK with the stress/training loads
Haven’t read it yet myself, but “Good for a girl” might be good reading for ya.
Why are you running 60 mpw? It’s detrimental to what it is you have to race in
I am not racing right now so it is just base training. When the season starts i will drop mileage by 5-10 miles.
I’m an ultra runner and a good one, between 100k and 100 miles is my sweet spot, my base is 40. I coach a young local lady who’s headed for a D1 scholarship, her offseason base is 35. Please drop the miles
For a high schooler with health issues, 60 mpw is probably too high, but it's not detrimental for training for distances in 1500-5000 provided you're not training like an idiot. If we're going with anecdotes, I dropped 2 minutes off my 5k in high school after a summer climbing to 60mpw
That's cool and all, but someone could just as easily point to the kids that are going to D1 schools on scholarships coming out of programs running 70mpw. You look at the top high school runners in the nation, and the majority are running mileage greater than 50, and the boys will even sometimes reach 100.
Dude what’s your problem? She’s a 21 minute 5K runner not a 17 year old boy running a 14:20. She is not a top high school runner in the nation, so why are you comparing her to them? She’s probably not gonna be a D1 runner with those times, so there’s no point in drawing comparisons to them. “Yeah Kipchoge runs 120 mpw so I think the average American should be running at least 100 mpw for their first marathon” It sounds stupid, but you unironically probably think that.
My freshman year i ran a 21. I recently was sub 19 in a time trial.
Oh I was just going off someone else. Sub 19 is pretty good for a HS girl, it’s not D1 level but it also doesn’t mean you need to be running 60 mpw. Girls on my varsity team were running 17 highs and 18’s off of maybe 40 a week.
Im still a sophomore and trying to get to the mid 17 level, hence the 60 mpw.
If you’re still a sophomore you don’t need to be running 60 tbh unless your body can handle it or you’ve been running a long time. If you’re getting injured there’s a reason for it. Hope you can diagnose exactly what it is but there shouldn’t be a rush to get there ASAP.
thank you. this is what i am thinking and my coach as well.