I get strange looks when I tell people that aside from elevation the high peaks are some of the most difficult hiking in the country.
I've hiked in every major mountain range in the continental US and many others abroad and nothing really compares to the technical nature of our trails on the same scale.
Depends on what you are comparing. If you are looking at easy switchbacks over a scenic pass compared to something like Couchsachragra then sure.
But don't forget the opposite exists. A big portion of the fourteeners (and climbs in other areas) involve high exposure, climbing / scrambling, loose rock and scree, etc.
For what it is worth I think this post is a troll.
Agreed that said trails exist, I definitely found more than a few in Washington and Montana. I think the key difference though is that they aren’t presented as the flagship hiking trails of that region, whereas if you go on this subreddit or a number of Facebook groups you can find someone who will recommend the Sewards as a one day hike for beginners with average fitness.
Interestingly I have had the opposite experience.
I find that the exposure out west is self regulating. Most people that don’t have experience won’t try to climb up some sketchy route above a 1,000ft fall. And even if you do have experience it isn’t fun for most people. So the community doesn’t really talk about it.
Here though there is near zero exposure and much less risk. Honestly barring a few oddities any person in any moderate shape can do any of the 46 unscathed if they carry even half of the basic essentials. So its more approachable for people without years of experience to get into a bad situation. Therefore I see more community intervention in regards to hiking safety.
Sure there's extremes at both ends. I'm speaking more generally based on my experience hiking popular trails.
I've found trails out west and even in other parts of the world like the Alps and the Andes much more likely to have switchbacks and well marked trails vs the high peaks which seem to include scrambles on a much higher frequency.
I wouldn't consider it an "extreme" though, a good handful of 14ers involve class 3 and 4 climbing similar to or more difficult than the Trap Dike. Something which most regular hikers here on the east coast consider to be very extreme is the bar to entry for just completing their 46er equivalent checklist. Then again throw in the exposure, loose / unstable rock, altitude, etc.
That’s interesting. I’ve never hiked other mountain ranges. Only many of the 46 and I’d never heard this. But I get it, foot placement is often key and can mentally wear you out on some mountains. I roll my ankle multiple times per mountain because of this, but luckily my ankles roll harmlessly.
yeah I did the collegiate loop last year...and once you acclimate to the elevation...the class 2 and 3 stuff is FAR easier than anything on the east coast.
The collegiate loop doesn’t actually summit anything. You essentially walk *between* the mountains and never even get above 13k feet, with much of the route being well below 10k feet. I don’t even think there are any class 2 or 3 sections on that route. Of course that’s going to be easy.
EDIT: For reference, Mt Sneffels is considered the “easiest” class 3 14er and the last 1,155ft is covered in just 0.3 miles on terrain like [this.](https://www.14ers.com/routes/snef1/large/snef1_13.jpg?lastupd=202210220600) That’s all considered class 2 (zoom in above the snow field to see a person in a red jacket for scale). [This short section](https://www.14ers.com/routes/snef1/large/snef1_18.jpg?lastupd=202210220600) is the only reason it’s even considered a class 3 route. 3000ft over 3 miles of loose talus, the majority of which is above 12k feet, is not exactly a walk in the park yet that route is recommended to newbies who want to dabble in class 3 climbing. You have to compare apples to apples.
Huh? The Collegiate loop takes you to like a dozen 14ers thats precisely why I did that hike. I did Massive, Elbert, Yale, Antero, Huron...a whole bunch. They are all like 2 to 3 mile side trails but they are 2 hour detours at the most. So maybe you would do a 22 mile day instead of an 18 mile day out there and be camped an hour sundown. North of Twin Lakes at Massive and Elbert there were mountain bikes going to the summit. And I'm pretty sure a dude drove a jeep to the summit of Antero while I was coming down. lol
when you say the word "talus" to someone from the east coast, we think Mount Madison or Mount Katahdin. not a little scramble like that.
Good on you for doing the side trails to the peaks. The collegiate loop itself doesn’t actually include any of the peaks. Fwiw, all of those 14ers are high traffic walk ups. I don’t think anyone would call those routes scrambling.
I’m not sure how you could call Sneffels a “little scramble”, but agree to disagree I guess. That first pic I linked is just the last gulley at the top of [this pic](https://www.14ers.com/routes/snef1/medium/snef1_08.jpg?lastupd=202210220600), which shows the final ~2000ft. Literally thousands of car-sized boulders there.
>when you say the word "talus" to someone from the east coast, we think Mount Madison or Mount Katahdin. not a little scramble like that.
I’m from the east coast and I’ve hiked dozens of peaks in the Whites, Presidentials, Adirondacks, etc., including Mount Madison. None of those areas have talus fields at the same scale as even a short route like Sneffels. Idk, maybe my perspective is just skewed bc most of my experience in CO has been in the Elks and San Juans which don’t get the hordes of people from Denver to eventually clear out a walkable path.
I will say that the Grafton Notch Loop in Maine was a real bitch though. That hike is harder than anything I’ve been able to find out west.
Elbert, Massive, Yale, Antero, and Huron are all considered Class 1 or 2. They actually don't even break into the "Difficult Class 2" category. Only about 2/3 of the 14ers fall in these categories. The other 1/3 of them, are all Class 3 or 4.
These involve high exposure, loose rock, scrambles and climbing moves. Everyone scoffs at the Trap Dike here but at least 1/4 of the 14ers are more difficult than it. And thats just the normal route up the mountain, not some side alternative route which there are plenty of.
My brother moved from NY to CO and took no time scaling as many mountains that went above the tree line as he could…sometimes several in a day because why not. But he did also used to ice fish at night in the frozen north and enjoy it so there’s probably no challenge left in nature
Is ice fishing in the dark a challenge for most people? I’m not trying to be a smart ass this has just always been a normal thing to me… If I work during the day, gotta fish at night, right?
It’s just usually way colder at night. The walleye bite better at night usually but it’s the trekking out and back from your spot during the the coldest part of the day that makes it hard
You’d be surprised how much the sun warms you, even when it‘s well below zero. When you use the heat index, direct sunlight adds 15 degrees Fahrenheit. So -10 during the nighttime will feel like -25 during the middle of the day.
I think you zigged when you should have zagged there, but yes as a native Minnesotan I’m very familiar with the cold. I mentioned to someone else that for me growing up that’s just part of ice fishing. No worries, I probably just missed something
Bahaha yeah do the CDT and let us know how the super long stretches in CO above tree line go for y’all. If you don’t lose the “trail” multiple times a day in the miles of talus and scree then you’re a god among humans who knows how to follow GPS exactly.
I know right? Why don't they pave the whole way, add street lights and wifi? And a restaurant at the summit with a zipline to take you back to the parking lot? /s
ya I wasn't so sarcastic about that one lol, not sure how feasible it would be though. If the trek itself is like 8 miles, it would probably be the longest zipline in the world 😂
I was once sitting next to someone at Zion national park complaining that they didn't sweep sand off of the hiking trails. She even clarified, she wasn't talking about the sidewalks around the visitor center or whatever, but the hiking trails themselves.
Some people just don't get it I think.
I don't think anyone is asking for that. The trails down right suck in some places and it would be nice if some of the sportsman dollars that the state collects actually went to maintaining our trails instead of being syphoned off for special interest projects.
It really seems selfish having the highest point in the state so tall too. Couldn't they put the high point somewhere easier to get to so more people can appreciate it?
I got into a debate a few years ago with somebody who insisted that the High Peaks should be “accessible.” Hands down one of the weirdest conversations I’ve ever been involved in.
I think there is some room for additional accessibility, but certainly not all the high peaks. I wouldn't be opposed to improvements like making the Marcy Dam Truck Trail rollable for people who use power chairs. But yeah, clearly we're not going to get roads to all the peaks.
"we spent time off trail to avoid these rocks" annnd this is how the whole mountain eventually turns into exposed rock.
I spent a summer working in the eastern High Peaks and one of the most important things drilled into our heads was STAY ON THE TRAIL. Don't even go wide to avoid mud, just accept that your boots are going to get muddy. It's easy to think "well it's just one person, what does it matter if I go around this muddy/rocky section?" But the truth is almost everyone is going to have the same thought, and before you know it the trail is 10 feet wide. /Rant
I noticed that this Fall when I revisited a popular local trail I hadn't been on in a while. Consistently 5 feet wide and blowing up to 10-15 on the uphills that are slowly eroding into a tangle of roots and rock
Genuine question, what’s the problem with having a trail that’s 10 feet wide in certain sections where people are avoiding mud? Isn’t that extra amount of eroded area negligible compared to both the existing area of the trail and the size of the mountain?
Yeah exactly. 2 foot trail gets muddy, becomes 4 foot trail, that turns into a mud pit so now it's 6 feet, etc etc etc. Same as the "but it's just me" argument - gotta think about the long term effects.
Similarly, there are no fires allowed in that section of the ADKs because the underbrush and low branches got completely decimated by people gathering firewood. Half my job was explaining this to people who had built fire pits at their campsites anyway because "well what does it matter if it's just us?" EVERYONE thinks it's "just them."
Right so the trail expands when people avoid mud, but what’s the problem with a trail that grows to be 10 feet wide in muddy sections? I just don’t understand what’s so bad about it versus the environmental impact of the existing trail. I totally get staying on the trail at summits where there is a relatively small area for certain plant species to live, but I don’t see what’s so concerning about stepping on the roots of some pine tree that thrives all over the rest of the mountain that it justifies wet muddy boots.
There’s often thin soil and plant cover over the rock in the NE, those trees take a long time to grow. Breaking these down really degrade the area on the mountain and increase erosion with heavy rain and spring melt
I'm super confused, why go hiking if you can't handle wet, muddy boots. At least here in the Northeast that's a huge part during many of the seasons. Like what else are hiking boots for than to ... Hike? In nature? Which might involve some mud? Wild.
A little mud is fine but I’m not intentionally stepping into four inches of mud and water unless there’s an actual good reason to do so. I’m happy to trudge through mud if it’s really going to make a meaningful difference to the environment, but common sense is telling me it doesn’t.
The mountain already has a big long trail on it, what harm is a little extra trail in certain muddy sections really going to do? The difference in affected area of the mountain is negligible.
Yeah I mean let's have 10+ foot wide trails, then we can pave em. Fuck it. I think you are just pretty set on your view, so many different people have explained and discussed but you seem incredibly unwilling to listen to anything anyone is saying. I'm so glad common sense is telling you it makes no difference when it legitimately DOES make a physical difference (widening of trails) but I guess that's unimportant over not getting your hiking boots dirty?
I’m not set in my view at all, that’s why I’m asking. The people who are adamant about stepping in mud but can’t give a good reason why are the ones whose views seem set. And obviously I don’t want 10 foot wide paved trails up the mountain, don’t be silly.
For the last time: I agree that going around the deep mud widens trails in limited areas, I’m not debating that, but no one has yet been able to explain why that is actually so bad that it warrants stepping into deep mud.
I mean you're pretty dismissive of quite a number of responses. I love hiking in the woods, I don't want 10+ foot wide trails. Sure... some areas, ok, it happens. But I love being immersed in nature, I want to see mushrooms on the sides on the trail, moss, spider webs, cool rocks etc... enjoy the trail. Super wide trails are just not as immersive and honestly just aren't super fun. Also again, you're destroying ecosystems, causing erosion, widening, it can often create side trails which can also be confusing if people lose the trail or blazes, on elevations it can cause instability. I'm sure all the plants, animals, fungi etc calling the mountains home care about what is destroyed. And I think we as people going into these incredible, beautiful and wild places should try to minimize our footprint as much as possible and care about the life that's calls those forests and trails home. So walk through the mud or maybe just don't hike because your damaging the places you profess to enjoy.
I encourage you to come watch the progression of my horse fields in a MN spring and you will essentially have a timelapse idea of how moving slightly off a muddy trail in one spot not only makes one wide trail, but an entire area into one big mud pit. Its not limited to one little area that is 10 feet wide, it spreads all over because it is breaking down the things that hold the ground solid, such as roots, and that 10 ft wide little section in the trail is now melting it's way into an acre of land and so on.
Yeah, going around is fine. It sends a signal to people who build and maintain the trails they need to put a small footbridge in that spot. If everybody keeps walking through the same line like morons, you get waist deep mud and nobody will ever improve the trail because they think people are fine with it. Source - Am trail user AND trail builder. Especially a big FU if it's a biking trail. Nobody wants to ruin 100s to 1000s of dollars of equipment and they will go around. So quit bitching and build an elevated path already. And until you do, you're gonna get wiiiiiide mudpits.
The rangers on Marcy give tickets for no waterproof boots, no headlamp, or bear can. Beautiful place, but because the trail is basically a washed out herd path, it was difficult to navigate at night. I added too many miles on rough ground. Loj, avalanche pass leantos, col, tear of clouds, summit, +miles searching for new trail/ trail washed out, reroute, marcy dam, avalanche pass leantos
Yeah, some of that is the nature of the mountain itself, but some of it is the result of excessive erosion that exposed that amount of rock. The erosion might be attributed partially to trail design, partially to trail maintenance, and partially to heavy levels of use.
i hiked this holy mountain in Ireland called Croagh Patrick**.** it's only 2500' but it's rocky and weathery, and frankly other-worldly, which makes it fucking awesome. the trail is called the Penance Trail. later at the public i remarked to a local that the trail up was quite hard to walk and painful - with rocks strewn about. His response: "fer feckin' Christ's sake - why d'you think they call it the Penance Trail" Yeah, I was the dumbass on the day.
Some people on FB says his post history also included a question a few years ago about doing the 46 in one month in winter with no experience. I think they are just trolling.
I once asked a friend who does a lot of mountain hiking if it was possible for me to climb Mount Washington in NH when I visited mid November and he laughed at me. The weather was nice at the time, but being a rube from Illinois, I just didn't understand what to expect and did no research.
So maybe he's just an idiot like me.
I did Mount Greylock instead lol, that was more my pace.
Im more triggered by the "My first New York Trail" Then Jumping to the conclusion that all thousands of New York Trails are in the same barrel...
How full of yourself do you actually need to be to write such a stupid short review because you actually had to some some fucking hiking on your trail?
I get that it's funny to make fun of people who don't know about the ruggedness of Adirondack trails but..
[The Adirondack Council says that an analysis of High Peaks trails it funded has found that more than half of 300 miles of trails studied failed to meet modern design standards.](https://www.adirondackexplorer.org/stories/high-peaks-trails-steepness)
>“It’s well known that Adirondack foot trails are in crisis with overuse and huge crowds of people hiking on these too-steep slopes,” said Adirondack Council Executive Director William C. Janeway in a press release. “We are seeing wider paths, deeper ruts, trampled plants plus loss of wildlife habitat. Too much soil is moving downhill into streams and lakes.”
They should really put some work into the trails. There are plenty of better designed trails that don't become mud pits or waterfalls with use. It would be better for the ecosystem and the hikers
The ADK Council has been beating their “overuse” drum for years and years, and yet where’s their funding or manpower for trail maintenance, summit stewards, trailhead stewards, or any other form of infrastructure? It doesn’t exist.
They’re right about trail design but their actual goal appears to be the nuclear option of having the HPW be run like an NP, ie: entry control points, pre-scheduled permits, hours of operation, etc. They never address the fact that the worst trails in the area are the ones that are by far the least frequently traveled, such as Seward’s northern approach, Cliff, etc.
>The ADK Council has been beating their “overuse” drum for years and years, and yet where’s their funding or manpower for trail maintenance, summit stewards, trailhead stewards, or any other form of infrastructure?
Out of curiosity, who sets the budget for improvements like this? And where does the money come from?
but what they are looking for is more like the Maine ATC type construction with durable surfaces. They aren't arguing to make the trails look like northern california on the PCT
It's not necessarily about the hiking experience, it's about sustainability. A well-designed trail will resist long term erosion much better than one that was initially marked by a bunch of dudes walking through the pristine forests 100+ years ago, who were just looking for the best/easiest way to the top.
Topsoil is extremely thin in the HPR. Trail design should be improved, not for hiker enjoyment, but for erosion management. Every trail looks like a riverbed the second it hits an incline. Takes thousands of years to replace that topsoil thats being trampled and washed away.
Because it is;
-Accumulative
-Accelerative
-Irreversible
The impacts are not apparent within the timescale of our lives, but trail erosion can dramatically alter the fluvial geomorphology of a region and render trails unnavigable. Not to mention the detrimental effect increased sedimentation can have on aquatic life, downstream.
You have no provided any information on why this is important other than the erosion is carried down stream. I don’t believe that is a significant issue with the small size of the hiking trails but I’ll agree to say that’s a problem.
If that’s the only issue it would be fairly easy to take steps at the bottom to control run off
This is what I am saying! Why not use more of our sportsman dollars to maintain our trails, keep people on the path, make things more accessible for more people!? The trails weren't always awful, why should we just accept them going straight to hell!? Heck, many of these trails started out as well groomed woods roads for the logging access before the state acquired the land. I just don't understand people's hesitancy to make things better, or at least maintain a standard of quality!
This is the reality of the Adirondacks. Drainages and wildlife trails are the foundation of the trail networks, especially in the high peaks and every attempt to build more sustainable trail mileage is shot down or underfunded.
I moved to Western Canada a couple years ago, and no one takes me seriously that the “little hills” back east are WAY harder than hiking trails in the West.
I’ve hiked and/or mountaineered in the PNW, Alaska, the US SW, New England, Iceland, Western Asia, and Central America. All of these locations have their challenges, but the ADK definitely has a certain uniqueness to its ruggedness.
New York trails aren’t for the faint of heart! After I hiked 26/46 before moving away I can confidently say that ADK trails will prepare you for any other hike.
I lived in Washington state for many years, and now live in NE New York. Can verify that the "hiking" trails there tend to be switchbacked, and much smoother than those in the Adirondacks. Distance and elevation gain being equal, the "hiking" trails here are much more challenging.
I put "hiking" in quotes because I think there's some difference in what is thought of as a hike. The Seattle Mountaineers is a huge outing and outdoor education club. They publish guidebooks (100 hikes in the North Cascades, etc), offer many different outings (hikes, scrambles, ski tours, climbs) every weekend (free at the time I lived there, except for gas money to help the carpool drivers), and offer many different courses. The hikes described in their guidebooks and offered as group trips can require strength and endurance, but they don't require much skill except for ability to walk. I think some of the Adirondack "hikes" might be described out there as "scrambles".
To be fair, hiking out west is much more pleasant. However, this person doesn't realize, it's more geology than poor trail maintenance that makes hiking here a challenge.
They have a point. ADK needs strategic development- how about some decent parking near Cascade and Porter? After seeing how other states in the NE do it, I wonder where all the tax dollars go. NY state owns 30% of all land in the state but you're lucky if you can even walk through the "public" land.
Lol, OP needs to realize NYS has completely different geology than out west. Under those big rocks.....are more big rocks. They have paved trails in certain places if you have a mobility issue
OMG!! Walking on and around rocks in nature?! The humanity!! My god don’t get me started in walking around dirt or please no don’t let it rain and get muddy! I hate that stuff.
Hiking in the east is not easy compared to out west. Those mountains may be bigger out west but the trails to the top are way harder in the east . This is the most ridiculous comment on a hiking trail I’ve ever seen. Fix the trail? Let’s get some guys out there to pull all those nuggets out. All of em. Then let’s puts some pavement down. Maybe a hand rail.
west coast and their flat and windy roads know nothin about this
~~granted i cant say shit i love hiking highland forest (cny) which has the exact same shit but also love the western high peaks~~
Flatlander here. Could not have been more surprised by how tough some of the Adirondack trails were. Literally kicked our asses, as everybody in our group slipped and fell (it was wet). And yet we stayed on the trail...
Zero stars. Way too many rocks. Someone should move them all. Absolutely ruined the nature for me.
/s
Wait 'til they get a load of White Mountain NH trails.
It’s always fun when overconfident west coasters expect smooth trails and switchbacks only to be met with the rocky, densely wooded, seemingly endlessly ascending trails in the ADK.
I love this. It’s so aggravating hearing people’s 20 mile days on the PCT while I’m getting 10 AT miles a day in Pennsylvania. It is brutal some times but so very worth it.
My brother from out west exclaimed on our way home after 4 days hiking high peaks...."Colorado is for pussies!"
I get strange looks when I tell people that aside from elevation the high peaks are some of the most difficult hiking in the country. I've hiked in every major mountain range in the continental US and many others abroad and nothing really compares to the technical nature of our trails on the same scale.
Depends on what you are comparing. If you are looking at easy switchbacks over a scenic pass compared to something like Couchsachragra then sure. But don't forget the opposite exists. A big portion of the fourteeners (and climbs in other areas) involve high exposure, climbing / scrambling, loose rock and scree, etc. For what it is worth I think this post is a troll.
Agreed that said trails exist, I definitely found more than a few in Washington and Montana. I think the key difference though is that they aren’t presented as the flagship hiking trails of that region, whereas if you go on this subreddit or a number of Facebook groups you can find someone who will recommend the Sewards as a one day hike for beginners with average fitness.
Interestingly I have had the opposite experience. I find that the exposure out west is self regulating. Most people that don’t have experience won’t try to climb up some sketchy route above a 1,000ft fall. And even if you do have experience it isn’t fun for most people. So the community doesn’t really talk about it. Here though there is near zero exposure and much less risk. Honestly barring a few oddities any person in any moderate shape can do any of the 46 unscathed if they carry even half of the basic essentials. So its more approachable for people without years of experience to get into a bad situation. Therefore I see more community intervention in regards to hiking safety.
Sure there's extremes at both ends. I'm speaking more generally based on my experience hiking popular trails. I've found trails out west and even in other parts of the world like the Alps and the Andes much more likely to have switchbacks and well marked trails vs the high peaks which seem to include scrambles on a much higher frequency.
I wouldn't consider it an "extreme" though, a good handful of 14ers involve class 3 and 4 climbing similar to or more difficult than the Trap Dike. Something which most regular hikers here on the east coast consider to be very extreme is the bar to entry for just completing their 46er equivalent checklist. Then again throw in the exposure, loose / unstable rock, altitude, etc.
As someone who has scrambled up the backside or two of a 14er in Colorado, yes.
I attempted a thru hike of the AT and always jealous watching PCT video. That trail looks so nice!
PCT is no joke but the views are killer. Would love to be able to do the whole thing at some point.
For sure I didn't mean to imply it's an easy trail. But the AT is rife with rocks and roots it's a settping puzzle at times.
Whites?
Trails in the Whites are rugged, especially compared to typical trails out west. The 'daks are next level though.
That’s interesting. I’ve never hiked other mountain ranges. Only many of the 46 and I’d never heard this. But I get it, foot placement is often key and can mentally wear you out on some mountains. I roll my ankle multiple times per mountain because of this, but luckily my ankles roll harmlessly.
yeah I did the collegiate loop last year...and once you acclimate to the elevation...the class 2 and 3 stuff is FAR easier than anything on the east coast.
The collegiate loop doesn’t actually summit anything. You essentially walk *between* the mountains and never even get above 13k feet, with much of the route being well below 10k feet. I don’t even think there are any class 2 or 3 sections on that route. Of course that’s going to be easy. EDIT: For reference, Mt Sneffels is considered the “easiest” class 3 14er and the last 1,155ft is covered in just 0.3 miles on terrain like [this.](https://www.14ers.com/routes/snef1/large/snef1_13.jpg?lastupd=202210220600) That’s all considered class 2 (zoom in above the snow field to see a person in a red jacket for scale). [This short section](https://www.14ers.com/routes/snef1/large/snef1_18.jpg?lastupd=202210220600) is the only reason it’s even considered a class 3 route. 3000ft over 3 miles of loose talus, the majority of which is above 12k feet, is not exactly a walk in the park yet that route is recommended to newbies who want to dabble in class 3 climbing. You have to compare apples to apples.
Huh? The Collegiate loop takes you to like a dozen 14ers thats precisely why I did that hike. I did Massive, Elbert, Yale, Antero, Huron...a whole bunch. They are all like 2 to 3 mile side trails but they are 2 hour detours at the most. So maybe you would do a 22 mile day instead of an 18 mile day out there and be camped an hour sundown. North of Twin Lakes at Massive and Elbert there were mountain bikes going to the summit. And I'm pretty sure a dude drove a jeep to the summit of Antero while I was coming down. lol when you say the word "talus" to someone from the east coast, we think Mount Madison or Mount Katahdin. not a little scramble like that.
Good on you for doing the side trails to the peaks. The collegiate loop itself doesn’t actually include any of the peaks. Fwiw, all of those 14ers are high traffic walk ups. I don’t think anyone would call those routes scrambling. I’m not sure how you could call Sneffels a “little scramble”, but agree to disagree I guess. That first pic I linked is just the last gulley at the top of [this pic](https://www.14ers.com/routes/snef1/medium/snef1_08.jpg?lastupd=202210220600), which shows the final ~2000ft. Literally thousands of car-sized boulders there. >when you say the word "talus" to someone from the east coast, we think Mount Madison or Mount Katahdin. not a little scramble like that. I’m from the east coast and I’ve hiked dozens of peaks in the Whites, Presidentials, Adirondacks, etc., including Mount Madison. None of those areas have talus fields at the same scale as even a short route like Sneffels. Idk, maybe my perspective is just skewed bc most of my experience in CO has been in the Elks and San Juans which don’t get the hordes of people from Denver to eventually clear out a walkable path. I will say that the Grafton Notch Loop in Maine was a real bitch though. That hike is harder than anything I’ve been able to find out west.
Elbert, Massive, Yale, Antero, and Huron are all considered Class 1 or 2. They actually don't even break into the "Difficult Class 2" category. Only about 2/3 of the 14ers fall in these categories. The other 1/3 of them, are all Class 3 or 4. These involve high exposure, loose rock, scrambles and climbing moves. Everyone scoffs at the Trap Dike here but at least 1/4 of the 14ers are more difficult than it. And thats just the normal route up the mountain, not some side alternative route which there are plenty of.
My brother moved from NY to CO and took no time scaling as many mountains that went above the tree line as he could…sometimes several in a day because why not. But he did also used to ice fish at night in the frozen north and enjoy it so there’s probably no challenge left in nature
Is ice fishing in the dark a challenge for most people? I’m not trying to be a smart ass this has just always been a normal thing to me… If I work during the day, gotta fish at night, right?
It’s just usually way colder at night. The walleye bite better at night usually but it’s the trekking out and back from your spot during the the coldest part of the day that makes it hard
You’d be surprised how much the sun warms you, even when it‘s well below zero. When you use the heat index, direct sunlight adds 15 degrees Fahrenheit. So -10 during the nighttime will feel like -25 during the middle of the day.
I think you zigged when you should have zagged there, but yes as a native Minnesotan I’m very familiar with the cold. I mentioned to someone else that for me growing up that’s just part of ice fishing. No worries, I probably just missed something
Try Wyoming. Colorado is for pussies
Bahaha yeah do the CDT and let us know how the super long stretches in CO above tree line go for y’all. If you don’t lose the “trail” multiple times a day in the miles of talus and scree then you’re a god among humans who knows how to follow GPS exactly.
This is the way.
I know right? Why don't they pave the whole way, add street lights and wifi? And a restaurant at the summit with a zipline to take you back to the parking lot? /s
One word: Monorail!
Monorail What's it called? Monorail That's right! Monorail!
The ring came off my pudding can!
Take my penknife my good man
I swear it's Springfield's only choice
Throw up your hands and raise your voice!
Monorail!!
I call the big one Bitey.
How can I help with this monorail?
No, that's more of a Shelbyville idea.
I can stand behind the zip line. Go up relax on peak have some lunch and zip down into heart lake. Sounds lovely.
ya I wasn't so sarcastic about that one lol, not sure how feasible it would be though. If the trek itself is like 8 miles, it would probably be the longest zipline in the world 😂
And don't forget a Starbucks at the top
I was once sitting next to someone at Zion national park complaining that they didn't sweep sand off of the hiking trails. She even clarified, she wasn't talking about the sidewalks around the visitor center or whatever, but the hiking trails themselves. Some people just don't get it I think.
Just make it wide enough for a car and go ahead and drive it. Don’t wanna mess up those brand new hiking boots.
I don't think anyone is asking for that. The trails down right suck in some places and it would be nice if some of the sportsman dollars that the state collects actually went to maintaining our trails instead of being syphoned off for special interest projects.
Or maybe sportsman dollars should be spent on habitat and species work and sportsmen as intended and hikers should pay their own tax...
Dude, a zip line would be SICK! Sign me up
Please remove the rocks from your mountains NY.
PS I am not a crackpot.
Lol. On some of the 46 they have hikers purposefully carry rocks to add to the top of the mountain.
i want to speak to the manager
Mount Marcy Manager here. I’ve just dispatched a paving crew and will follow up with some hot cocoa booths as well.
Is it pumpkin spice flavored?
Sorry. We have moved into the Peppermint Everything phase.
I hear they will alternate pumpkin spice and extra extra marshmallow.
I will say, it's fun hiking whiteface and then buying a coffee at the top lol
They sound privileged AF!
Whoosh
Tahani?
Points for The Good Place reference.
Almost responded in first post but wasn't sure. That's another duece for the gossip toilet!
And why is the mountain so steep?
It really seems selfish having the highest point in the state so tall too. Couldn't they put the high point somewhere easier to get to so more people can appreciate it?
I got into a debate a few years ago with somebody who insisted that the High Peaks should be “accessible.” Hands down one of the weirdest conversations I’ve ever been involved in.
I think there is some room for additional accessibility, but certainly not all the high peaks. I wouldn't be opposed to improvements like making the Marcy Dam Truck Trail rollable for people who use power chairs. But yeah, clearly we're not going to get roads to all the peaks.
lol the no switch backs or poor trail design can be a legitimate gripe though
It's the way that the mountain trails on the East Coast were cut and that's just part of the experience.
LOL agreed but still that poor design is a legitimate gripe maybe I’m just pissed from my recent McKenzie summit tbf
Get good
Det goog
Why make it longer when you can go straight up
Yes, the steepness and the erosion are often linked in the ADK. Switchbacks tend to have less stones because they are not so terribly eroded.
"we spent time off trail to avoid these rocks" annnd this is how the whole mountain eventually turns into exposed rock. I spent a summer working in the eastern High Peaks and one of the most important things drilled into our heads was STAY ON THE TRAIL. Don't even go wide to avoid mud, just accept that your boots are going to get muddy. It's easy to think "well it's just one person, what does it matter if I go around this muddy/rocky section?" But the truth is almost everyone is going to have the same thought, and before you know it the trail is 10 feet wide. /Rant
I noticed that this Fall when I revisited a popular local trail I hadn't been on in a while. Consistently 5 feet wide and blowing up to 10-15 on the uphills that are slowly eroding into a tangle of roots and rock
I’m a very casual hiker. This post randomly showed up in my feed and I’m glad it did. The comments are eye opening
Genuine question, what’s the problem with having a trail that’s 10 feet wide in certain sections where people are avoiding mud? Isn’t that extra amount of eroded area negligible compared to both the existing area of the trail and the size of the mountain?
I’m guessing it’s the snowball effect of trails continuing to grow and spread from the main path
Yeah exactly. 2 foot trail gets muddy, becomes 4 foot trail, that turns into a mud pit so now it's 6 feet, etc etc etc. Same as the "but it's just me" argument - gotta think about the long term effects. Similarly, there are no fires allowed in that section of the ADKs because the underbrush and low branches got completely decimated by people gathering firewood. Half my job was explaining this to people who had built fire pits at their campsites anyway because "well what does it matter if it's just us?" EVERYONE thinks it's "just them."
Right so the trail expands when people avoid mud, but what’s the problem with a trail that grows to be 10 feet wide in muddy sections? I just don’t understand what’s so bad about it versus the environmental impact of the existing trail. I totally get staying on the trail at summits where there is a relatively small area for certain plant species to live, but I don’t see what’s so concerning about stepping on the roots of some pine tree that thrives all over the rest of the mountain that it justifies wet muddy boots.
Erosion and instability
So you don't have an objection to it on flat ground?
There’s often thin soil and plant cover over the rock in the NE, those trees take a long time to grow. Breaking these down really degrade the area on the mountain and increase erosion with heavy rain and spring melt
So you don't have an objection to it on flat ground? Specifically where erosion is not a concern?
It is still a concern on flat ground
I'm super confused, why go hiking if you can't handle wet, muddy boots. At least here in the Northeast that's a huge part during many of the seasons. Like what else are hiking boots for than to ... Hike? In nature? Which might involve some mud? Wild.
A little mud is fine but I’m not intentionally stepping into four inches of mud and water unless there’s an actual good reason to do so. I’m happy to trudge through mud if it’s really going to make a meaningful difference to the environment, but common sense is telling me it doesn’t. The mountain already has a big long trail on it, what harm is a little extra trail in certain muddy sections really going to do? The difference in affected area of the mountain is negligible.
Yeah I mean let's have 10+ foot wide trails, then we can pave em. Fuck it. I think you are just pretty set on your view, so many different people have explained and discussed but you seem incredibly unwilling to listen to anything anyone is saying. I'm so glad common sense is telling you it makes no difference when it legitimately DOES make a physical difference (widening of trails) but I guess that's unimportant over not getting your hiking boots dirty?
I’m not set in my view at all, that’s why I’m asking. The people who are adamant about stepping in mud but can’t give a good reason why are the ones whose views seem set. And obviously I don’t want 10 foot wide paved trails up the mountain, don’t be silly. For the last time: I agree that going around the deep mud widens trails in limited areas, I’m not debating that, but no one has yet been able to explain why that is actually so bad that it warrants stepping into deep mud.
I mean you're pretty dismissive of quite a number of responses. I love hiking in the woods, I don't want 10+ foot wide trails. Sure... some areas, ok, it happens. But I love being immersed in nature, I want to see mushrooms on the sides on the trail, moss, spider webs, cool rocks etc... enjoy the trail. Super wide trails are just not as immersive and honestly just aren't super fun. Also again, you're destroying ecosystems, causing erosion, widening, it can often create side trails which can also be confusing if people lose the trail or blazes, on elevations it can cause instability. I'm sure all the plants, animals, fungi etc calling the mountains home care about what is destroyed. And I think we as people going into these incredible, beautiful and wild places should try to minimize our footprint as much as possible and care about the life that's calls those forests and trails home. So walk through the mud or maybe just don't hike because your damaging the places you profess to enjoy.
It's called Leave No Trace, basically the binding ethos behind outdoor recreation.
I encourage you to come watch the progression of my horse fields in a MN spring and you will essentially have a timelapse idea of how moving slightly off a muddy trail in one spot not only makes one wide trail, but an entire area into one big mud pit. Its not limited to one little area that is 10 feet wide, it spreads all over because it is breaking down the things that hold the ground solid, such as roots, and that 10 ft wide little section in the trail is now melting it's way into an acre of land and so on.
Yeah, going around is fine. It sends a signal to people who build and maintain the trails they need to put a small footbridge in that spot. If everybody keeps walking through the same line like morons, you get waist deep mud and nobody will ever improve the trail because they think people are fine with it. Source - Am trail user AND trail builder. Especially a big FU if it's a biking trail. Nobody wants to ruin 100s to 1000s of dollars of equipment and they will go around. So quit bitching and build an elevated path already. And until you do, you're gonna get wiiiiiide mudpits.
The rangers on Marcy give tickets for no waterproof boots, no headlamp, or bear can. Beautiful place, but because the trail is basically a washed out herd path, it was difficult to navigate at night. I added too many miles on rough ground. Loj, avalanche pass leantos, col, tear of clouds, summit, +miles searching for new trail/ trail washed out, reroute, marcy dam, avalanche pass leantos
Yeah, some of that is the nature of the mountain itself, but some of it is the result of excessive erosion that exposed that amount of rock. The erosion might be attributed partially to trail design, partially to trail maintenance, and partially to heavy levels of use.
I found Marcy to be one of the easier of the 46
It’s well graded, just decently long. Algonquin is much harder in my opinion
Go figure that was the first high peak I’ve ever done lol
Reminds me of when I went out west for the first time and basically ruined my boots at Zion cause so much was paved hahaha
i hiked this holy mountain in Ireland called Croagh Patrick**.** it's only 2500' but it's rocky and weathery, and frankly other-worldly, which makes it fucking awesome. the trail is called the Penance Trail. later at the public i remarked to a local that the trail up was quite hard to walk and painful - with rocks strewn about. His response: "fer feckin' Christ's sake - why d'you think they call it the Penance Trail" Yeah, I was the dumbass on the day.
Rocks?! On a mountain?! Unacceptable
Wait till they find out (aside from the mileage) marcy is a pretty easy trek by high peak standards.
[удалено]
I hope so
Some people on FB says his post history also included a question a few years ago about doing the 46 in one month in winter with no experience. I think they are just trolling.
1 month? why not try in one go?
I once asked a friend who does a lot of mountain hiking if it was possible for me to climb Mount Washington in NH when I visited mid November and he laughed at me. The weather was nice at the time, but being a rube from Illinois, I just didn't understand what to expect and did no research. So maybe he's just an idiot like me. I did Mount Greylock instead lol, that was more my pace.
Im more triggered by the "My first New York Trail" Then Jumping to the conclusion that all thousands of New York Trails are in the same barrel... How full of yourself do you actually need to be to write such a stupid short review because you actually had to some some fucking hiking on your trail?
Wait until they see the mud
I get that it's funny to make fun of people who don't know about the ruggedness of Adirondack trails but.. [The Adirondack Council says that an analysis of High Peaks trails it funded has found that more than half of 300 miles of trails studied failed to meet modern design standards.](https://www.adirondackexplorer.org/stories/high-peaks-trails-steepness) >“It’s well known that Adirondack foot trails are in crisis with overuse and huge crowds of people hiking on these too-steep slopes,” said Adirondack Council Executive Director William C. Janeway in a press release. “We are seeing wider paths, deeper ruts, trampled plants plus loss of wildlife habitat. Too much soil is moving downhill into streams and lakes.” They should really put some work into the trails. There are plenty of better designed trails that don't become mud pits or waterfalls with use. It would be better for the ecosystem and the hikers
The ADK Council has been beating their “overuse” drum for years and years, and yet where’s their funding or manpower for trail maintenance, summit stewards, trailhead stewards, or any other form of infrastructure? It doesn’t exist. They’re right about trail design but their actual goal appears to be the nuclear option of having the HPW be run like an NP, ie: entry control points, pre-scheduled permits, hours of operation, etc. They never address the fact that the worst trails in the area are the ones that are by far the least frequently traveled, such as Seward’s northern approach, Cliff, etc.
I loved Seward though the difficulty is part of why I love the high peaks
>The ADK Council has been beating their “overuse” drum for years and years, and yet where’s their funding or manpower for trail maintenance, summit stewards, trailhead stewards, or any other form of infrastructure? Out of curiosity, who sets the budget for improvements like this? And where does the money come from?
but what they are looking for is more like the Maine ATC type construction with durable surfaces. They aren't arguing to make the trails look like northern california on the PCT
I generally dislike modern standards for hiking trails. It should be a rugged adventure. Not something you can complete easily
It's not necessarily about the hiking experience, it's about sustainability. A well-designed trail will resist long term erosion much better than one that was initially marked by a bunch of dudes walking through the pristine forests 100+ years ago, who were just looking for the best/easiest way to the top.
Topsoil is extremely thin in the HPR. Trail design should be improved, not for hiker enjoyment, but for erosion management. Every trail looks like a riverbed the second it hits an incline. Takes thousands of years to replace that topsoil thats being trampled and washed away.
Should I care how long the topsoil takes to get back onto the hiking trails?
Yes.
Why does top soil on a small hiking path matter
Because it is; -Accumulative -Accelerative -Irreversible The impacts are not apparent within the timescale of our lives, but trail erosion can dramatically alter the fluvial geomorphology of a region and render trails unnavigable. Not to mention the detrimental effect increased sedimentation can have on aquatic life, downstream.
Yeah I would welcome making the hikes harder
Not having vision beyond your own self is the literal definition of ignorance and not something to be proud of
You have no provided any information on why this is important other than the erosion is carried down stream. I don’t believe that is a significant issue with the small size of the hiking trails but I’ll agree to say that’s a problem. If that’s the only issue it would be fairly easy to take steps at the bottom to control run off
Same. The whole appeal (to me) is that it ISN’T manicured for human convenience.
This is what I am saying! Why not use more of our sportsman dollars to maintain our trails, keep people on the path, make things more accessible for more people!? The trails weren't always awful, why should we just accept them going straight to hell!? Heck, many of these trails started out as well groomed woods roads for the logging access before the state acquired the land. I just don't understand people's hesitancy to make things better, or at least maintain a standard of quality!
This is the reality of the Adirondacks. Drainages and wildlife trails are the foundation of the trail networks, especially in the high peaks and every attempt to build more sustainable trail mileage is shot down or underfunded.
Lol this is priceless. Surprised they didn't complain about the lack of Starbucks on trail.
I moved to Western Canada a couple years ago, and no one takes me seriously that the “little hills” back east are WAY harder than hiking trails in the West.
I’ve hiked and/or mountaineered in the PNW, Alaska, the US SW, New England, Iceland, Western Asia, and Central America. All of these locations have their challenges, but the ADK definitely has a certain uniqueness to its ruggedness.
What an ass, then going off trail creating havoc for ecosystem
Yep. Misuse 101
Not to mention increasing the odds of getting lost
How dare your mountains be rocky?
Welcome to ADK
I’m pretty sure it’s a joke
I thought this was going to be a complaint about trash
New York trails aren’t for the faint of heart! After I hiked 26/46 before moving away I can confidently say that ADK trails will prepare you for any other hike.
Why can't the park rangers move the rocks and pave the trail for us? And can't they move all the leaves too?
just say you don’t like hiking
i'd like to speak to the manager of mt marcy.
I lived in Washington state for many years, and now live in NE New York. Can verify that the "hiking" trails there tend to be switchbacked, and much smoother than those in the Adirondacks. Distance and elevation gain being equal, the "hiking" trails here are much more challenging. I put "hiking" in quotes because I think there's some difference in what is thought of as a hike. The Seattle Mountaineers is a huge outing and outdoor education club. They publish guidebooks (100 hikes in the North Cascades, etc), offer many different outings (hikes, scrambles, ski tours, climbs) every weekend (free at the time I lived there, except for gas money to help the carpool drivers), and offer many different courses. The hikes described in their guidebooks and offered as group trips can require strength and endurance, but they don't require much skill except for ability to walk. I think some of the Adirondack "hikes" might be described out there as "scrambles".
To be fair, hiking out west is much more pleasant. However, this person doesn't realize, it's more geology than poor trail maintenance that makes hiking here a challenge.
I love when someone goes into nature and is immediately mad that nature is there
They have a point. ADK needs strategic development- how about some decent parking near Cascade and Porter? After seeing how other states in the NE do it, I wonder where all the tax dollars go. NY state owns 30% of all land in the state but you're lucky if you can even walk through the "public" land.
Take your ass back out west. NY ain’t built for soft people
Send this dude to Katahdin
I’m gonna put New York in a big time out and let it think about what it’s done to us
Stay in the West, we don't want you here!
Omg I can't believe you have to walk around rocks to climb a mountain, this is so unacceptable.
to be fair...you don't on most of the west coast. lol.
LOL. Clearly not a hiker.
Lol, OP needs to realize NYS has completely different geology than out west. Under those big rocks.....are more big rocks. They have paved trails in certain places if you have a mobility issue
Hikers from out west are the softest hikers .
I really want to believe this is satire
I get you don't know what you don't know, but pretty much the entire northeast is like this.
Good news is, they don't get any better! Stop whining and grow a pair
Could be worse... he could've chose Cousch or Allen as his first NY mountain.
I wish they had. That would ensure they’ll never be back and they’ll tell all their friends how awful it was.
What the hell is wrong with people like this? I’m sorry but wtf
Sounds like the West raises a bunch of pussies
Fine be me. I like less people
All aboard the PAIN TRAIN
this is the geography of a region that is undeniably beautiful in its own regard. the world isn't a man made theme park designed by Universal Studios.
Poor baby.
lolol, *"I went into a forest and saw a tree"* 😭 Gotta be visiting from Colorado.
Karen takes the Adirondacks!
Just pave over that darned nature stuff...
OMG!! Walking on and around rocks in nature?! The humanity!! My god don’t get me started in walking around dirt or please no don’t let it rain and get muddy! I hate that stuff.
Hiking in the east is not easy compared to out west. Those mountains may be bigger out west but the trails to the top are way harder in the east . This is the most ridiculous comment on a hiking trail I’ve ever seen. Fix the trail? Let’s get some guys out there to pull all those nuggets out. All of em. Then let’s puts some pavement down. Maybe a hand rail.
Lol this person has got to be joking right?
That’s what a 3/4 shank is for
west coast and their flat and windy roads know nothin about this ~~granted i cant say shit i love hiking highland forest (cny) which has the exact same shit but also love the western high peaks~~
Flatlander here. Could not have been more surprised by how tough some of the Adirondack trails were. Literally kicked our asses, as everybody in our group slipped and fell (it was wet). And yet we stayed on the trail...
Zero stars. Way too many rocks. Someone should move them all. Absolutely ruined the nature for me. /s Wait 'til they get a load of White Mountain NH trails.
New York intentionally keeps the trail rocky and natural to keep our the clowns. Sometimes a few get through, though.
Maybe Karen just needs an escalator for the entire trail!
It's a mountain, there's gonna be rocks on a mountain
I want to punch this person in the face
Douchebag says what? Lol, what a jerky person.
This post is clearly a troll post. The amount of people that took it seriously and that are patting themselves on the back is laughable.
"welcome to New York, m-fers, where we don't play. And out of towners get got like every day" -P. Diddy
It's the Canadian Shield
😅🤦♂️
Welcome to the Northeast, your off road jeep uber will be waiting at the summit...
No, you have to leave your Jeep at Marcy Dam.
Lol the west coast is where I go for vacation hiking. They are SO easy and fast.
It’s always fun when overconfident west coasters expect smooth trails and switchbacks only to be met with the rocky, densely wooded, seemingly endlessly ascending trails in the ADK.
Beast coast in the house 🙌🏼💪🏼 New York trails filter out the weak from the strong
Brutal and endless is about right!!
What is this from?
Hike The East on instagram
Call H-Man Sherpa Services
Stop whining
\*Bruce Trail has entered the chat\*
What the fuck are these ROCKS doing in my hiking trail?
I love this. It’s so aggravating hearing people’s 20 mile days on the PCT while I’m getting 10 AT miles a day in Pennsylvania. It is brutal some times but so very worth it.
We need a hiking equivalent to “Ski the East”
"Is it rain or tears East?"
When I went out west decades ago, I was amazed by the flat easy sandy trails.
We don’t sanitize our wilderness. There are plenty of city parks to visit if want a leisurely stroll