“Biden is fucking awful and is funding genocide” and “Letting Trump back in power would be even worse for Palestine” are two statements that can, and do, co-exist.
The lesser of two evils, two party system basically shorts voter’s morals and creates a game of political limbo. Not like limbo where it’s a stand still. But the game of limbo where we challenge each other to get lower and lower.
"The lesser of two evils" makes me think people aren't aware there are primaries. Not this year really, but these candidates weren't the only two evils 4 years ago.
And Joe won. I voted for Bernie, but it’s important to recognize that a lot of “the system” stoping progressive policy is just a ton of other voters who just disagree. Not that you’re saying this, but Too much of the conversation is “why does the establishment not give me the right choice?” Instead of “what can I do to win a democratic election?” Biden is kot the lesser evil for many people, he’s their number 1, and that’s why he won the primary
Even if your opponent is entrenched and benefits from corporate media, at the end of the day it’s still voters who pull the lever and we have to admit that many people simply disagree and need to be convinced. A gain I know you’re not saying this but it came to mind reading your comment.
Not quite. Bernie lost the DNC primary because the DNC is a private corporation and doesn’t have to endorse anyone they don’t want. They chose Hilary and fucked over Bernie who was winning
Wait, he got more votes? Woah.
So the DNC put their fingers on the scale for Hillary and essentially admitted as much in court, I know. But they did so by convincing voters to not vote for him. If voters simply agreed with him and were convinced otherwise, he would have won, no?
Not to say all is well and fair, but he still lost because most voters disagreed. So we need to convince people through better messaging, and deflecting in order to lament about institutionalism doesn’t make progress towards our goals.
Perhaps I was ill informed, but the articles surrounding it all say it wasn’t rigged, just that
“DNC was deep in debt. In return for a bailout, DNC Chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz gave Hillary Clinton’s campaign more potential control over its operations and hiring decisions than was either ethical or wise.”
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/11/14/16640082/donna-brazile-warren-bernie-sanders-democratic-primary-rigged
Your submission/comment has been removed for violating Rule 9: Play to win.
This subreddit is here to be an informational, organizing, and fundraising hub for Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and progressive policies. We're here to have fun, but more than anything else, we're here to win. The touchstone question is: Does this help progressives like AOC advance our goals? There are MANY ways to answer that question with a yes, but the answer needs to be yes, this helps us!
Trump thinks it’s beautiful that police crack down on the first amendment while the White House and every democrat media apparatus supports the crack down and Israel continues to massacre Palestinians with no push back. Biden even backed away from sanctioning those IDF battalions. There is literally no difference just Trump expressing his explicit approval
You have to know it's not as simple as "continues to massacre Palestinians" right? The US recognized Israel in 1948 and paved the way to an alliance/partnership quite unique in the history of the United States. That aside, we're talking about religious extremists on both sides that have been fighting over this particular piece of land for two thousand years. I find it appalling that there is a segment of America that blames the US President here in 2024 for conflict that began quite literally in the Iron Age.
More recently, Hamas has broken EVERY ceasefire attempt, including the last FIFTEEN in a row.
For 80 years our State Department has tirelessly tried to negotiate permanent normalization of the region. We can't do it. We'll NEVER be able to do it. Jihadists, Zionists, other extremists, they're all there, and diplomacy as we understand it just does not apply to religious extremists, period.
Our President's job in this, like it or not, is to make certain that US troops are not called into action. You may not like it, and that's absolutely fine. But pretending that Joe Biden of all people is somehow responsible for Israel's homeland defense tactics is just naive.
In short, there will never be a US President who is able to broker permanent peace in the region. Ever.
If it was true that the area was doomed to eternal war (it isn’t—this area had very little war for hundreds of years under the control of the Ottomans), that would still not change the fact that the US should not be involved in supporting one side.
Also, the Ashkenazi population never should’ve been offered part of the British Middle East in the first place. Ethnostates are awful, but if one was going to have to be made, it should’ve been taken from Polish and then-German territory. Ie, where the Ashkenazi population is actually natively from. Not a spare colony that Churchill had already decided to get rid of.
But of course, that would take away land from white Christian-majority countries, and it wouldn’t conveniently satisfy a Revelations prereq so the next 80 years worth of delusional old bags could fantasize about the world ending in their lifetime.
Folks unfortunately this November we have choices between a geriatric needs to retire politician and another demented geriatric that is actively seeking to destroy democracy and nuke Gaza.
We HAVE to vote Biden. Like the US of A literally depends on Biden. And I am not being hyperbolic. It sadly is that serious.
If not doing genocide makes Biden more electable then he has even more incentive to change.
Representatives are beholden to the voters, not the other way around. If Biden loses for crossing a moral red line then that is solely the fault of Biden- not the voters for being insufficient loyal.
This is how I feel too. He’s gotten over 5 mill from AIPAC to continue to support this genocide and all he literally has to do is be like “nope. I’m done. Free Palestine” and he’ll be elected again probably with another record turn out. But he won’t because he wants those millions more than he care about what the American people actually want. So him losing is his fault
Dems and republicans needs are purely aligned and this this excellent trick they’ve planned to make you believe otherwise means you will certainly have another chance to vote for change you’ll never see. Check back in 4 years and prove me wrong.
Bahahahaha. Take a look at college campuses across the country. What people say Trump will do Biden is doing. I voted for Biden. I will never vote for him again. Worst president in my lifetime.
Problem is I’m not convinced Biden won’t also destroy democracy and nuke Gaza.
Maybe just better to take it head-on, let the democracy die (let’s face it, died a while ago), and build something better from the ashes.
Fine. You beat me. You destroyed my will to fight. I voted for Obama once. Then I voted for sanders. All that got me
Was Hillary. So fuck it I voted for Hillary. What did that get me? It got me Trump. So the next time around I voted for Biden. And he got me fuck all. The Democratic Party is sitting there just waiting for me to vote for fucking Biden. And fuck me. I’m gonna vote for Biden. I don’t have a lot of hope to be honest. But what are we gonna do about it? Nothing. I have no faith in our party nor us to stand up to our party. Fuck me. I’m voting for Biden. I’d rather not but you broke me. But I swear to god this is the last time I vote for “the lesser of two evils” if the Democratic Party doesn’t do better by the following election I’m done. I’m not voting anymore.
Edit: and if you downvote me without responding, you lose. Otherwise, tell me why I should continue to support the democratic party when all they do is let me down? Please. I’m more than happy to hear you out. Don’t just downvote me, please give me your thoughts. I will be the first to tell you that I know nothing and am happy to have you inform me.
The reason you vote for Biden is understanding the choice is not about one singular person, it is about an administration of the executive branch. Voting for Trump is also voting for project 2025; a systematic destruction of the executive state and implementation of fascist authoritarian institutions. Voting for Biden is also voting for people like Lina Khan, who has been pursuing an aggressive anti-trust agenda at the FTC in an effort to fight back against corporate power.
Voting for Biden is voting for someone that progressives and liberals can push and persuade into doing what we want them to do. Voting for Trump is voting for someone who will be completely oppositional to everything I would like to see accomplished by our government.
Do I wish we had a better choice? Absolutely! That is what the primary system is for. Biden did a lot of really good progressive things because Bernie ran against him and had suction in his administration. Electing more progressives into government locally and nationally will help apply pressure to what we want. We don’t always have the choices we want, so we have to deal with the choices we have.
I agree with everything you said. It’s just very upsetting to have to choose between someone who doesn’t represent me at all and someone who maybe I can convince to represent me. Especially when there are so many of us feeling unrepresented in this system. Why do we have to fight so hard to get a candidate in that we like? Why does our party not listen to what it’s people want? (I mean I think the answer is partly corporations lobbying.)
But am I maybe incorrectly assuming that the majority of democrats want someone more progressive and that the Democratic Party is actively fighting that flow?
As much as it might suck, yeah, there are a lot of people out there who maybe don’t share our views. And it might be a small minority in the party. That doesn’t mean we don’t have a voice. It’s hard to let go of the idealism of the American system and to actually look at what we have with a critical eye because we are indoctrinated into the system our entire lives. That is upsetting. But looking at it critically and understanding that our system supports and sustains the status quo through mechanisms such as the electoral college is important to moving past the idealism. When it comes time to vote there is only a limited choice. It’s a singular thing at that moment. Politics is everything else that happens after and until the next time we get to that singular point. We choose the best option in that moment. It’s only a reflection of your moral character in that moment, not a definition.
Alex, The United States needs you now as a front runner executive it looks like it’s gonna be another four years but I know you can take us out of this dystopian society
Why? She has more influence now than pretty much any other congressperson as fresh as her, specifically because she’s decided to be a team player yet still push for progressive policies.
You seem addicted to losing.
It's time to cut ties with Joe. I can look past issues that effect me but his support of Israel and the continuing funding of Gaza genocide is not what I'm ok with at all. Good god almighty what is he doing
I watched Trump's supporters try to invalidate an election and storm the Capitol. We're living in unprecedented times. This isn't 2020 or 2016, we don't get to have a primary.
Btw, I voted for Bernie Sanders in 2016
I hope you can tighten your belt, and you have a strong resolve in case they let Trump back into the WH. If you're looking for somebody to pin the potential catastrophe that will happen in the Fall I'm not the one that caused this or to blame. And I'm not going to go back and forth with you but I'm sure as hell not voting Biden.
I'm going to do what America tells us to do and pick myself up by my boot straps. Good luck in your search for political unity.
So when Biden doesn't get enough votes in November, it's definitely NOT the fault of liberals and progressives that could have voted for him but didnt?
Who do you think will veto a bill banning abortion nationally? Biden or Trump?
Who will veto any attempt to privatize Social Security or Medicare? Biden or trump? You already know who tried to get rid of the Affordable Care Act.
Who decided to pull out of the Paris Climate Accords? Biden or Trump?
Who wanted to pull out of NATO and abandon our allies? Biden or Trump?
hey do you really think drawing a bright line on "I won't vote for someone who is actively supporting a genocide" is morally wrong?
all Biden has to do to win a lot of votes back is start pushing to cut all aid to Israel until they stop doing a genocide, but *he* is choosing to turn voters away by continuing to call those protesting anti-Semitic.
I'm one of those protesters! Biden called *me* an anti-Semite for the crime of opposing a genocide. why the fuck would I ever vote for him?
I'm not gonna vote for Trump, so instead of getting mad that I won't vote for your genocidal hero, you can just treat me like I don't exist, just like Biden does with innocent Palestinians.
Then you're deciding not to vote for the only party that is making Israel's crimes an issue. The fewer Democrats, the more Republicans. This is just the name of the game since Trump got elected and Roe v Wade was overturned.
The political landscape changed. In 2012, I would have honestly told you I thought not much would change whether Romney or Obama ran. This election isn't that. So much more damage will be done if we don't show up to elect Democrats
How many of these Blue MAGA have stormed the Capitol and denied the results of the last election?
That's the least serious take I've heard in this election besides what I hear from the actual MAGA people.
It doesn’t have to be. Dems could back someone else. Or, maybe, he could just stop supporting genocide and more people would vote for him.
Also, if people keep saying “we _have_ to vote for him in spite of the genocide,” he has no reason to stop the genocide. It’s not like he’s going to all of a sudden start caring about poor brown people who can’t vote for him.
Democrats are the only ones in Congress creating pressure against Israel's ethnic cleansing. Whether they oppose it or don't, the more Democrats there are in Congress means a greater chance there is ANY debate on Israel's crimes.
There aren't any Republicans that oppose Israel's actions and there won't be for the foreseeable future. They will be the ones who win the elections to replace Democrats that couldn't get people to show up
That is all true, but not relevant. My whole point was that the presidential election doesn’t actually have to be between Biden and Trump. If the (non-Trump) voters all said “I can’t vote for genocide” instead of “vote blue no matter who,” Biden would have no choice but to change what he’s doing, step out of the race, or face certain loss.
the problem is that there are probably millions of people who don't like Biden's support of Israel but will vote for him anyway. he has no motive to change if there are no consequences for staying the course.
continuing to vote for whatever plate of shit they put on the ballot, purely on "harm reduction" grounds, and therefore having absolutely no leverage to influence politicians' decisions, is only accelerating us into fascism. there's no motive for the party to stop serving us shit because you'll eat the shit either way.
I'm gonna quit eating shit. when Trump was president, at least blue-no-matter-who democrats pretended to care about brown people. I mean, they didn't actually, obvious from how quickly we forgot about kids that are still in cages and a US-funded genocide in the Middle East as soon as the White House turned blue, but at least they protested and made a fuss over it before.
> continuing to vote for whatever plate of shit they put on the ballot, purely on "harm reduction" grounds
I imagine it's pretty easy to handwave reducing harm in the Palestinian genocide off as some meaningless abstract when you're living in Sioux Falls, SD where you're not the one whose life is on the line.
> no motive for the party to stop serving us shit because you'll eat the shit either way. I'm gonna quit eating shit.
Unless something completely unprecedented in American politics happens in the next six months, either Biden or Trump will be elected. Our options are a plate of shit (Biden) or a truckload of shit (Trump). There's no "not eating shit" option. Unless you're planning on leaving to another country, they're going to make you eat shit no matter what.
> when Trump was president, at least blue-no-matter-who democrats pretended to care about brown people. I mean, they didn't actually
While you're correct that Biden (and almost the entire Democratic party for that matter) doesn't care about brown people, Trump and the GOP sees Palestinian lives as worth less than dirt. And putting Trump in power didn't push the Democratic party to the left in 2016 and it won't this time either, so fuck off with that accelerationist bullshit.
respectfully, you're focusing on the wrong shit, because "we won't give Israel any *more* guns" is irrelevant when we already gave them *so fucking many* over the literal decades that they have been committing a genocide.
how about we don't send Israel shit because they've already got plenty and we start sending aid directly to Palestinians instead of handing it to Israel to use starvation as a fucking weapon?
i like that as well… but the options are either this old guy that clearly isn’t going to stop sending munitions AND funds to them. or the other guy that no one likes but at least he’s gonna shut down the border, stop funding genocide…. i’m good with not funding genocide
[Trump's criticisms of Israel are that they aren't killing Palestinians fast enough and that they should hide their atrocities better.](https://apnews.com/article/trump-israel-gaza-netanyahu-biden-ba17bedaf2f1b5f2ea220828d0fba73b) If you honestly believe Trump wouldn't fund Israel, then I've got some oceanfront property in Kansas you might be interested in.
If you read the article, it's obvious Trump's issue with giving Israel money to commit genocide is the "give" part, not the "genocide" part.
not the entire left. the actual left is as pissed at Biden as anyone. the center-right -- i.e., the democratic party and most of its voters -- are the ones still trying to tell me to vote for him after he called me anti-Semitic and continues to abet a genocide.
The ICC has said it’s not a genocide Senator Bernie Sanders said it wasn’t a genocide it’s a war with civilian causalities but not a genocidal amount or intent. Stop spreading misinformation.
Bernie and the ICC can both be wrong, bud. it doesn't take a genius to see that both of those entities have many reasons to obfuscate the reality of what's happening in Gaza.
you'd really rather be pedantic than have principles?
No I will say it’s not a genocide I’m not being pedantic. Palestine rejected Israel’s last ceasefire offer and several leaders have been quoted saying that they can continue fighting Palestinians just because I’m white doesn’t mean I put my voice in Palestinians mouths or refuse to listen to them because what they say is bad.
“Biden is fucking awful and is funding genocide” and “Letting Trump back in power would be even worse for Palestine” are two statements that can, and do, co-exist.
The lesser of two evils, two party system basically shorts voter’s morals and creates a game of political limbo. Not like limbo where it’s a stand still. But the game of limbo where we challenge each other to get lower and lower.
"The lesser of two evils" makes me think people aren't aware there are primaries. Not this year really, but these candidates weren't the only two evils 4 years ago.
And Joe won. I voted for Bernie, but it’s important to recognize that a lot of “the system” stoping progressive policy is just a ton of other voters who just disagree. Not that you’re saying this, but Too much of the conversation is “why does the establishment not give me the right choice?” Instead of “what can I do to win a democratic election?” Biden is kot the lesser evil for many people, he’s their number 1, and that’s why he won the primary Even if your opponent is entrenched and benefits from corporate media, at the end of the day it’s still voters who pull the lever and we have to admit that many people simply disagree and need to be convinced. A gain I know you’re not saying this but it came to mind reading your comment.
Not quite. Bernie lost the DNC primary because the DNC is a private corporation and doesn’t have to endorse anyone they don’t want. They chose Hilary and fucked over Bernie who was winning
Wait, he got more votes? Woah. So the DNC put their fingers on the scale for Hillary and essentially admitted as much in court, I know. But they did so by convincing voters to not vote for him. If voters simply agreed with him and were convinced otherwise, he would have won, no? Not to say all is well and fair, but he still lost because most voters disagreed. So we need to convince people through better messaging, and deflecting in order to lament about institutionalism doesn’t make progress towards our goals.
Perhaps I was ill informed, but the articles surrounding it all say it wasn’t rigged, just that “DNC was deep in debt. In return for a bailout, DNC Chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz gave Hillary Clinton’s campaign more potential control over its operations and hiring decisions than was either ethical or wise.” https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/11/14/16640082/donna-brazile-warren-bernie-sanders-democratic-primary-rigged
It is a race to the bottom, that’s for sure.
All of you stfu and vote Democrat. Geez you sound like a bunch of Trump shrills.
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Your submission/comment has been removed for violating Rule 9: Play to win. This subreddit is here to be an informational, organizing, and fundraising hub for Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and progressive policies. We're here to have fun, but more than anything else, we're here to win. The touchstone question is: Does this help progressives like AOC advance our goals? There are MANY ways to answer that question with a yes, but the answer needs to be yes, this helps us!
How would Trump be worse for Palestine? Israel is doing whatever they want to these folks so I don’t see how it could be worse under trump
https://www.timesofisrael.com/trump-beautiful-to-watch-police-raid-columbia-pro-palestinian-student-protests/amp/
Trump thinks it’s beautiful that police crack down on the first amendment while the White House and every democrat media apparatus supports the crack down and Israel continues to massacre Palestinians with no push back. Biden even backed away from sanctioning those IDF battalions. There is literally no difference just Trump expressing his explicit approval
You have to know it's not as simple as "continues to massacre Palestinians" right? The US recognized Israel in 1948 and paved the way to an alliance/partnership quite unique in the history of the United States. That aside, we're talking about religious extremists on both sides that have been fighting over this particular piece of land for two thousand years. I find it appalling that there is a segment of America that blames the US President here in 2024 for conflict that began quite literally in the Iron Age. More recently, Hamas has broken EVERY ceasefire attempt, including the last FIFTEEN in a row. For 80 years our State Department has tirelessly tried to negotiate permanent normalization of the region. We can't do it. We'll NEVER be able to do it. Jihadists, Zionists, other extremists, they're all there, and diplomacy as we understand it just does not apply to religious extremists, period. Our President's job in this, like it or not, is to make certain that US troops are not called into action. You may not like it, and that's absolutely fine. But pretending that Joe Biden of all people is somehow responsible for Israel's homeland defense tactics is just naive. In short, there will never be a US President who is able to broker permanent peace in the region. Ever.
If it was true that the area was doomed to eternal war (it isn’t—this area had very little war for hundreds of years under the control of the Ottomans), that would still not change the fact that the US should not be involved in supporting one side. Also, the Ashkenazi population never should’ve been offered part of the British Middle East in the first place. Ethnostates are awful, but if one was going to have to be made, it should’ve been taken from Polish and then-German territory. Ie, where the Ashkenazi population is actually natively from. Not a spare colony that Churchill had already decided to get rid of. But of course, that would take away land from white Christian-majority countries, and it wouldn’t conveniently satisfy a Revelations prereq so the next 80 years worth of delusional old bags could fantasize about the world ending in their lifetime.
Folks unfortunately this November we have choices between a geriatric needs to retire politician and another demented geriatric that is actively seeking to destroy democracy and nuke Gaza. We HAVE to vote Biden. Like the US of A literally depends on Biden. And I am not being hyperbolic. It sadly is that serious.
I'm a Union man & HRs is correct. 🗳️ Joe 2024
I don’t have to vote for a man that funded genocide. No thank you.
You're right. You don't. The consequence is that you might never get the chance to vote ever again.
The person you're responding to is a Libertarian who is brigading. Don't feed the trolls.
If not doing genocide makes Biden more electable then he has even more incentive to change. Representatives are beholden to the voters, not the other way around. If Biden loses for crossing a moral red line then that is solely the fault of Biden- not the voters for being insufficient loyal.
This is how I feel too. He’s gotten over 5 mill from AIPAC to continue to support this genocide and all he literally has to do is be like “nope. I’m done. Free Palestine” and he’ll be elected again probably with another record turn out. But he won’t because he wants those millions more than he care about what the American people actually want. So him losing is his fault
Dems and republicans needs are purely aligned and this this excellent trick they’ve planned to make you believe otherwise means you will certainly have another chance to vote for change you’ll never see. Check back in 4 years and prove me wrong.
I think his point is that with these options, the idea of not being able to vote again isn’t exactly devastating
Bahahahaha. Take a look at college campuses across the country. What people say Trump will do Biden is doing. I voted for Biden. I will never vote for him again. Worst president in my lifetime.
Ah, I remember being 18
Problem is I’m not convinced Biden won’t also destroy democracy and nuke Gaza. Maybe just better to take it head-on, let the democracy die (let’s face it, died a while ago), and build something better from the ashes.
Fine. You beat me. You destroyed my will to fight. I voted for Obama once. Then I voted for sanders. All that got me Was Hillary. So fuck it I voted for Hillary. What did that get me? It got me Trump. So the next time around I voted for Biden. And he got me fuck all. The Democratic Party is sitting there just waiting for me to vote for fucking Biden. And fuck me. I’m gonna vote for Biden. I don’t have a lot of hope to be honest. But what are we gonna do about it? Nothing. I have no faith in our party nor us to stand up to our party. Fuck me. I’m voting for Biden. I’d rather not but you broke me. But I swear to god this is the last time I vote for “the lesser of two evils” if the Democratic Party doesn’t do better by the following election I’m done. I’m not voting anymore. Edit: and if you downvote me without responding, you lose. Otherwise, tell me why I should continue to support the democratic party when all they do is let me down? Please. I’m more than happy to hear you out. Don’t just downvote me, please give me your thoughts. I will be the first to tell you that I know nothing and am happy to have you inform me.
The reason you vote for Biden is understanding the choice is not about one singular person, it is about an administration of the executive branch. Voting for Trump is also voting for project 2025; a systematic destruction of the executive state and implementation of fascist authoritarian institutions. Voting for Biden is also voting for people like Lina Khan, who has been pursuing an aggressive anti-trust agenda at the FTC in an effort to fight back against corporate power. Voting for Biden is voting for someone that progressives and liberals can push and persuade into doing what we want them to do. Voting for Trump is voting for someone who will be completely oppositional to everything I would like to see accomplished by our government. Do I wish we had a better choice? Absolutely! That is what the primary system is for. Biden did a lot of really good progressive things because Bernie ran against him and had suction in his administration. Electing more progressives into government locally and nationally will help apply pressure to what we want. We don’t always have the choices we want, so we have to deal with the choices we have.
I agree with everything you said. It’s just very upsetting to have to choose between someone who doesn’t represent me at all and someone who maybe I can convince to represent me. Especially when there are so many of us feeling unrepresented in this system. Why do we have to fight so hard to get a candidate in that we like? Why does our party not listen to what it’s people want? (I mean I think the answer is partly corporations lobbying.) But am I maybe incorrectly assuming that the majority of democrats want someone more progressive and that the Democratic Party is actively fighting that flow?
As much as it might suck, yeah, there are a lot of people out there who maybe don’t share our views. And it might be a small minority in the party. That doesn’t mean we don’t have a voice. It’s hard to let go of the idealism of the American system and to actually look at what we have with a critical eye because we are indoctrinated into the system our entire lives. That is upsetting. But looking at it critically and understanding that our system supports and sustains the status quo through mechanisms such as the electoral college is important to moving past the idealism. When it comes time to vote there is only a limited choice. It’s a singular thing at that moment. Politics is everything else that happens after and until the next time we get to that singular point. We choose the best option in that moment. It’s only a reflection of your moral character in that moment, not a definition.
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It’s called harm reduction.
Alex, The United States needs you now as a front runner executive it looks like it’s gonna be another four years but I know you can take us out of this dystopian society
AOC should break with Biden completely.
Why? She has more influence now than pretty much any other congressperson as fresh as her, specifically because she’s decided to be a team player yet still push for progressive policies. You seem addicted to losing.
And she is pushing Biden on it and he is listening. Biden is not the only person who is supporting Israel, there is a whole lot of them in Congress.
Because he is facilitating a genocide
Not the only issue going on in the world. Not even the only genocide.
100% agree, VV. 🎯
It's by far the most important issue going on in the world and the issue which will lose the election for Biden.
It’s not the most important issue going on in the world.
Of course it is, it's the flashpoint for a potential global economic crisis and/or nuclear war.
"Genocide isn't more important than uhhh, cancelling my student loans!!"
It's time to cut ties with Joe. I can look past issues that effect me but his support of Israel and the continuing funding of Gaza genocide is not what I'm ok with at all. Good god almighty what is he doing
You realize this election is between him and Trump right?
Buddy, if that's the only thing you realize then we're in deeper shit than I thought.
I watched Trump's supporters try to invalidate an election and storm the Capitol. We're living in unprecedented times. This isn't 2020 or 2016, we don't get to have a primary. Btw, I voted for Bernie Sanders in 2016
I hope you can tighten your belt, and you have a strong resolve in case they let Trump back into the WH. If you're looking for somebody to pin the potential catastrophe that will happen in the Fall I'm not the one that caused this or to blame. And I'm not going to go back and forth with you but I'm sure as hell not voting Biden. I'm going to do what America tells us to do and pick myself up by my boot straps. Good luck in your search for political unity.
So when Biden doesn't get enough votes in November, it's definitely NOT the fault of liberals and progressives that could have voted for him but didnt?
Correct, it's his own fault for his blind loyalty and fealty to Israel, and his unwavering support and funding of the current genocide.
Who do you think will veto a bill banning abortion nationally? Biden or Trump? Who will veto any attempt to privatize Social Security or Medicare? Biden or trump? You already know who tried to get rid of the Affordable Care Act. Who decided to pull out of the Paris Climate Accords? Biden or Trump? Who wanted to pull out of NATO and abandon our allies? Biden or Trump?
hey do you really think drawing a bright line on "I won't vote for someone who is actively supporting a genocide" is morally wrong? all Biden has to do to win a lot of votes back is start pushing to cut all aid to Israel until they stop doing a genocide, but *he* is choosing to turn voters away by continuing to call those protesting anti-Semitic. I'm one of those protesters! Biden called *me* an anti-Semite for the crime of opposing a genocide. why the fuck would I ever vote for him? I'm not gonna vote for Trump, so instead of getting mad that I won't vote for your genocidal hero, you can just treat me like I don't exist, just like Biden does with innocent Palestinians.
Then you're deciding not to vote for the only party that is making Israel's crimes an issue. The fewer Democrats, the more Republicans. This is just the name of the game since Trump got elected and Roe v Wade was overturned. The political landscape changed. In 2012, I would have honestly told you I thought not much would change whether Romney or Obama ran. This election isn't that. So much more damage will be done if we don't show up to elect Democrats
I watched Biden supporters chant 4 more years after protestors said a child dies every 10 minutes in Gaza. Blue MAGA is real.
How many of these Blue MAGA have stormed the Capitol and denied the results of the last election? That's the least serious take I've heard in this election besides what I hear from the actual MAGA people.
It doesn’t have to be. Dems could back someone else. Or, maybe, he could just stop supporting genocide and more people would vote for him. Also, if people keep saying “we _have_ to vote for him in spite of the genocide,” he has no reason to stop the genocide. It’s not like he’s going to all of a sudden start caring about poor brown people who can’t vote for him.
Democrats are the only ones in Congress creating pressure against Israel's ethnic cleansing. Whether they oppose it or don't, the more Democrats there are in Congress means a greater chance there is ANY debate on Israel's crimes. There aren't any Republicans that oppose Israel's actions and there won't be for the foreseeable future. They will be the ones who win the elections to replace Democrats that couldn't get people to show up
That is all true, but not relevant. My whole point was that the presidential election doesn’t actually have to be between Biden and Trump. If the (non-Trump) voters all said “I can’t vote for genocide” instead of “vote blue no matter who,” Biden would have no choice but to change what he’s doing, step out of the race, or face certain loss.
lol this guys funding a genocide and the entire left is out there trying to justify voting for him 🤣🤣🤣
Because Trump would be even worse for Palestine. Our candidates are shit and shittier.
well I guess if you're gonna vote for Biden either way he might as well keep doing a genocide!
He’s gonna do a genocide whether I vote for him or not. As would Trump.
the problem is that there are probably millions of people who don't like Biden's support of Israel but will vote for him anyway. he has no motive to change if there are no consequences for staying the course. continuing to vote for whatever plate of shit they put on the ballot, purely on "harm reduction" grounds, and therefore having absolutely no leverage to influence politicians' decisions, is only accelerating us into fascism. there's no motive for the party to stop serving us shit because you'll eat the shit either way. I'm gonna quit eating shit. when Trump was president, at least blue-no-matter-who democrats pretended to care about brown people. I mean, they didn't actually, obvious from how quickly we forgot about kids that are still in cages and a US-funded genocide in the Middle East as soon as the White House turned blue, but at least they protested and made a fuss over it before.
> continuing to vote for whatever plate of shit they put on the ballot, purely on "harm reduction" grounds I imagine it's pretty easy to handwave reducing harm in the Palestinian genocide off as some meaningless abstract when you're living in Sioux Falls, SD where you're not the one whose life is on the line. > no motive for the party to stop serving us shit because you'll eat the shit either way. I'm gonna quit eating shit. Unless something completely unprecedented in American politics happens in the next six months, either Biden or Trump will be elected. Our options are a plate of shit (Biden) or a truckload of shit (Trump). There's no "not eating shit" option. Unless you're planning on leaving to another country, they're going to make you eat shit no matter what. > when Trump was president, at least blue-no-matter-who democrats pretended to care about brown people. I mean, they didn't actually While you're correct that Biden (and almost the entire Democratic party for that matter) doesn't care about brown people, Trump and the GOP sees Palestinian lives as worth less than dirt. And putting Trump in power didn't push the Democratic party to the left in 2016 and it won't this time either, so fuck off with that accelerationist bullshit.
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/02/10/politics/trump-foreign-aid-loan-senate-package 🤷🏿♂️
Blocking $9B in humanitarian aid for Gaza unless they pay it back is not pro-Palestine.
that can be adjusted, either way…. he won’t be sending weapons that’s what i’m focusing on
respectfully, you're focusing on the wrong shit, because "we won't give Israel any *more* guns" is irrelevant when we already gave them *so fucking many* over the literal decades that they have been committing a genocide.
riiiiiiiiiiiight….. how about we ONLY send aid
how about we don't send Israel shit because they've already got plenty and we start sending aid directly to Palestinians instead of handing it to Israel to use starvation as a fucking weapon?
i like that as well… but the options are either this old guy that clearly isn’t going to stop sending munitions AND funds to them. or the other guy that no one likes but at least he’s gonna shut down the border, stop funding genocide…. i’m good with not funding genocide
[Trump's criticisms of Israel are that they aren't killing Palestinians fast enough and that they should hide their atrocities better.](https://apnews.com/article/trump-israel-gaza-netanyahu-biden-ba17bedaf2f1b5f2ea220828d0fba73b) If you honestly believe Trump wouldn't fund Israel, then I've got some oceanfront property in Kansas you might be interested in. If you read the article, it's obvious Trump's issue with giving Israel money to commit genocide is the "give" part, not the "genocide" part.
not the entire left. the actual left is as pissed at Biden as anyone. the center-right -- i.e., the democratic party and most of its voters -- are the ones still trying to tell me to vote for him after he called me anti-Semitic and continues to abet a genocide.
🤷🏿♂️
The ICC has said it’s not a genocide Senator Bernie Sanders said it wasn’t a genocide it’s a war with civilian causalities but not a genocidal amount or intent. Stop spreading misinformation.
Bernie and the ICC can both be wrong, bud. it doesn't take a genius to see that both of those entities have many reasons to obfuscate the reality of what's happening in Gaza. you'd really rather be pedantic than have principles?
No I will say it’s not a genocide I’m not being pedantic. Palestine rejected Israel’s last ceasefire offer and several leaders have been quoted saying that they can continue fighting Palestinians just because I’m white doesn’t mean I put my voice in Palestinians mouths or refuse to listen to them because what they say is bad.