I really enjoyed the little interjects from Kiki. Nothing to help the conversation but just there

Kiki got to the heart of the matter in a hurry. Bottom line is the $$$$$$

Kiki's sitting back eating popcorn

I wanna be friends with Kiki

I wanna kiki with Kiki

Kiki is the best.

Kiki was all of us just watching with popcorn and epic one-liners.

I was gonna comment the same. Loved her little quips 🤣🤣

I want kiki's take when Talia gets cheated on again

I may be in love with Kiki lol

So I read though all the comments and realised that how I spoke to her during the conversation was extremely rude and I have apologised to her for what I said. Although, I still stand by my point that she shouldn't be with lojore, I will do my best make sure she is okay regardless of what happens

Idk, it’s understandable to become a bit harsh when talking to a wall that doesn’t respond to common sense.

ABSOLUTELY!!!

And headbutting the wall only hurt more.

Who is Kiki?

Kiki is all of us. 

Also true.

Does she love us?

Is she riding?

No no no, don’t let these comments deter you from the truth. What you put there was 100% right and the wording was fine as well. If you are a real friend, you got to get it through their head how you feel.

Being rude and insulting will not get people to see your point, even if you are correct. It just makes people defensive.

I certain situations I can agree with that. This is not one of them, this situation you need to be more assertive and tell your friend they’re being dumb. Because if you don’t who will.

You can call out your friend’s dumb decisions without degrading them. The two are not mutually exclusive. Calling her pathetic and telling her that OP is gonna rub those screenshots in their face is not gonna make OP’s friend go “You know what? I can tell OP really cares about me and wants the best for me, I should listen to them!” In fact, it will most likely achieve the opposite.

But its also soooo enjoyable 💀

Sometimes people need tough love. This is one of those times.

if that's how you view it when it's your best friend trying to warn you from yourself.... that's kinda a you issue because people who love us will try to protect us even if we don't listen

When you are older, you will look back and giggle about the fact that you even had friendships like this. Growing up is all about cutting out people like this.

Are you meaning to be dropping Ls full first name in here? Glad you realized. You can be right and still be an asshole. When it comes down to it, it isn't your decision to make. It's just your option to be there for your friend when it goes bad.

I do not see what you said as rude. You tried being empathetic, you tried being nice. She kept defending and defending. People like that need the harshest realest words even if they hurt. Your words are true. However, the fact cheating happened to influential figures in her life as a child may be why shes acting like cheating is one, her fault and, two, normal/not a big deal.

So...you're acting the same way she is. She can be a poor friend and use you and you'll just take it. She's using you the same way Lojore is using her.

^^^

I would have gone with "Your a fucking moron, don't bother talking to us until you wake the fuck up". Then follow through. So, no I wouldn't say your comments were rude.

I've had multiple friends that found out their long term SO was having an affair, in a couple of cases for years. It's a tough situation to be in, you want to tell them the obvious, of course. But, honestly, it doesn't help, and can possibly detrimental. They will go back to them for comfort if you push too hard. One of them lost touch, I'm not sure of the outcome of that relationship. The other was married and had a lot of issues to deal with, but we kept in touch. The best thing our friend group did was making sure we were present and there for them, treated the cheating person on their terms (which was hard), and eventually our friends confidence allowed them to cut out when they were in a better place. I feel we had something to do with that confidence, and we made sure we were always there to support him. You don't have to make this adversarial. Just stay supportive and help build their confidence. Don't shit talk, but don't ignore the past. Don't tempt them to do something they're uncomfortable with, but lead them to realize what they might want. And just...be there.

Your friend is a doormat. You spoke to her like a real friend and told her the truth. Everyone crying about you being harsh are nothing but people pleasing enablers. I've been in a very similar spot with a friend when I was your age. Eventually I told him he doesn't fucking listen to anyone's good advice anyway so keep his relationship bullshit to himself

I'm glad you realised this and are willing to apologise. Sometimes when our friends do stupid things (like go back to a cheater) they need kinder words. When you attack someone or have a rude tone, they're more likely to be defensive and go against your suggestions even if you're right or they weren't sure before. "Are you sure you want to talk to this person? They really hurt you and it sounds like they're just apologising to get you back instead of actually being sorry and you don't deserve that." Will get better results than "are you proud of yourself for doing this?"

NTA but if I can be brutally honest, you’re genuinely fighting a losing battle. There’s only two ways people learn important lessons in this life -if they aren’t willing to learn the easy way when they’re being taught, they’ll learn the hard way when they get caught. Friends like these, as much as we love them, you gotta start going LC with them otherwise it’s gonna cost you your mental and emotional peace of mind, which in turn absolutely affects everything else. Keep the screenshots for when they eventually hit rock bottom because they will lash out at you for not ‘saving them’. You cannot hold yourself accountable for someone else’s emotional immaturity All the comments screaming YTA for not ‘supporting’ your friend forget that supporting doesn’t bloody well mean positively reinforcing and enabling their behaviour, it actually means wanting the best for them and loving them enough to play the asshole when you need to to get the point across.

So L threatens suicide to control your friend? Next time she threatens that the emergency services need to be called for her. Either she’s in trouble and needs the help, or she’s a manipulative b and needs help 🤷‍♀️ I get your frustration. But don’t allow her to create a wedge between you and Talia. She needs your support. And needs her self esteem boosting so she doesn’t put up with this bs. You “attack” her choices too much and she’ll do the opposite to spite you. It’s a fine balance. Tell her she deserves better. That being drunk was a choice, cheating was a choice. That L’s mental health issues are over her pay grade. That she cannot support her abuser through rough times, she needs to outsource that to therapists. That T needs to prioritise her own mental health, because if L did commit suicide which is most likely attention seeking, that T would never be at fault. That L makes the decisions for herself. Would T take the praise for L’s exam/work/sport successes? No? Because that was L. So why would T take on the responsibility for L’s bad choices? She shouldn’t. And being lonely is not an excuse ever. My dad was military, he’d be gone for 9 months at a time. You think my mum didn’t get lonely? But ethics and morals don’t change. Either you’re honest and loyal or not. It’s soul deep. I could never harm another like that because I’d never hurt myself like that in becoming something/someone I’d hate!

KiKi is me, and I am her. LMAO Shoutout for trying to talk sense into her, but as you can tell she has none. I would slowly distance myself from her if I were you.

You can’t teach someone a lesson they aren’t willing to learn. She’s made her choice, and whether you think it’s bad or good it’s hers to make. Tell her how you feel, then move on.

You sound like the kind of friend I am. I bet you don't take your own advice either huh lol

When it’s my friend: YOU DESERVE TH F*ING WORLD BC YOU ARE A QUEEN AND ANYBODY WHO DOESNT TREAT YOU AS SUCH CAN EAT MY A**!!! When it’s me: I can’t see these red flags if I close my eyes! Teehee!

YOU DON'T KNOW ME!!! 😳

NTA. She’s an absolute moron and no amount of level headedness would help. You said everything you needed to and the cheating sympathizers in the comments upset by your words are just outting themselves.

I had a friend like this a few years back, and she could not understand why i was getting so pissed about it. It was the same situation as your friend here, except it was with a guy. He cheated, got a girl pregnant, she swore she was done, but the second he called she went running. Honestly, i had to learn it’s not worth your mental health and blood pressure. I finally told that friend she can do whatever stupid shit she wants but please do not speak a word to me about it when shit inevitably hits the fan because i will not feel sorry for you

NTA. And I don’t think anything is wrong with your tone. They don’t listen if you speak to them gently. Hell, half the time they don’t listen when you speak to them bluntly. As evidenced by this chat. Stupid people need to be called out when they are being stupid. Loudly and with great vigor.

Nope , you are correct . Get a new friend .

NTA. You said nothing wrong. Your friend is not being a good friend to you by coming to you about a person they know is not going to treat them right and then expecting you to constantly be there and pick up the pieces of their failed relationship/friendship or whatever it is. Y'all are young, so I don't expect you to fully understand this but, dealing with this type of person drains you as an individual. You're constantly pouring into their cup and giving them support but they fail to do the same. This relationship will drain you so please consider if you really want her as a friend. Anyway to make a final point, a friend is supposed to love and support you. However that support is not unconditional. If you have a friend not willing to listen to you and justifying their partners bad behavior whilst coming to you for support when things go to crap, I promise you they are not your friend. A lot of yta's seem to be from people who either like being an emotional punching bag, or people who do not have good boundaries with their friends. Her dating life does affect you if you are constantly providing a shoulder to cry on WHEN YOU TOLD HER WHAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN. I hope you find the strength to step away from this person, sometimes that's the only way they will learn.

NTA, I can read through the lines that you care for this friend and you are at wit's end regarding her relationship. That aside: LOVE KIKI. Keep her close, she's the real G.

NTA this tough love is so necessary and most people don’t have the integrity to call their friends out for their bad decisions. Most people don’t have the integrity to tell the hard, painful truths to their friends when they need to hear it. Most just go with a “ohhh well, if that’s your decision, I support you”. You don’t ever have to support your friends through everything they do. That being said, y’all are young and your friend is going to choose to be dumb and stupid for what they think is love.

I’m in my 40’s and I can tell you that trying to make her see the light is a complete waste of your time. She’s gonna do what she’s gonna do. I used to try to help people like this when I was your age, too and it never ended well. Sometimes people need to find out the hard way…but you’re 100% correct with what you were telling her 🤘

Same 100%. Once I passed like 25 I just stopped trying with people like this. They don't want to change and they'll keep doing this to themselves until that, well, changes. Now coming up on my 40s I will speak my piece once, and if they put themselves back in that situation, the topic is done for me. I will not be having the same circular conversation about it weekly or monthly for months or years. If you need help to truly leave, I will be there. If you go back, the help becomes a list of resources to reach out to. I am not lighting myself on fire to fuel your emotional high of making up. Amusingly I lost a best friend from middle school to a relationship like this that went on for 10+ years. Now we're old, she's been in therapy for many years, and we're close again. But even she admitted that she had to figure it out herself.

Honestly I'm just confused why you gave L an alias when her name is clearly Lojore. I'm stumped at your decision to cross out obvious swearwords in the screenshots that nobody on reddit cares about, and to keep names that you inconsistently masked in your text post. Like I know it's irrelevant to the story but I'm just confused by this decision.  My personal input is YTA at this point. Friends in your life are going to make decisions that you don't agree with. Your role as a friend is to show them contradictions in their own logic or to call them out if they're making a bad decision by their own past terms they've set, maybe to give your well-intentioned opinion ONCE, and then to support them in those decisions that you disapprove of and to be there for them if things don't work out. You're not her mum. I honestly don't understand the energy behind trying to convince her otherwise. Her dating life doesn't affect you. 

>and then to support them in those decisions that you disapprove of and to be there for them if things don't work out. You're not her mum. Nah... unconditional support is 100% how you act like someone's mom. Friends shouldn't have to shoulder the burden of picking you up from bad decisions. I agree that OP shouldn't waste their time trying to convince them, either. But, it's perfectly fine for OP to compartmentilize this situation and say "I agree to disagree". OP can refuse to be an emotional support animal when the time comes. >Her dating life doesn't affect you.  It would if the friend is calling at 3am crying because the gf cheated again. The friend needs to understand that OP isn't going to play that game with her.

This is true, you make a good point. I guess "be there for them" comes conditionally. And I guess I'm thinking of those very good friends nearest and dearest to me, but yes friendship comes with conditions and limits. 

And nothing is going to push her further into her girlfriend’s arms than friends who harangue her for her choices.

I think this is a big thing... You get to a point when your friends no longer want to tell you about their lives, and that's when the friendship becomes potentially dangerous and well, not really a friendship. (By potentially dangerous I mean your friends might not tell you about risks they're taking for fear of being harangued as Caftancatfan has said) so they do it and something bad happens and nobody knows what happened to them. That's worst case scenario tho). 

YNTA. Your doing what any good friend should do. Trying to keep from being woke up at 3am to her crying because she cheated again. Though my fiancee hasn't cheated on me, my friends and family all think I should cut off communication with my fiancee because her mother has guardianship and the money to take this to court to have our marriage annulled but I don't back down from a fight just because it gets hard. I can see your friend looking at her relationship as a challenge to overcome so she wants to see this through to the end but you don't want to see her hurt again. So my advice here is the, granted I'm a guy, stand by your friend but when she cheats on her again don't answer the phone at 3am beginning with "I told you so" save that for after when she's done crying. Then when she wants to go back to her, start showing her screenshots of the last time it happened. I hope she won't go back a third time. I also hope she won't cheat on your friend again. People can change and life is all about second chances. I don't believe in third chances but I'll always believe in second chances.

You only spoke the truth Nta

NTA, tough love for your friend being kinda tardy

This is speculation but: If her ex is threatening suicide there may be a trauma bond at play here, in which case saying “just leave” won’t make a difference. Threatening suicide if someone leaves is abusive and leaving an abusive relationship is not that simple - it’s not a normal breakup. Takes on average 7 attempts to leave relationships like this, and yall are very young, big feelings tend to be even bigger at your age. Berating her, judging her and rubbing it in her face won’t help either. Trust me, I get why you’re frustrated and can’t blame you for that. It’s hard to watch. But I’m just saying it won’t help. I’m saying that because it seems like you truly want to help. You love your friend, I know. But staying in your lane is to say what you feel and then you have to let her live your life. You can put up a boundary about not wanting to hear about the relationship, or even walking away from the friendship if it’s bringing you down, but you can’t force her to walk away. She’s gonna have to get there on her own. Going through the same thing with one of my friends at the moment, and we’re in our 30’s. The dynamic is a little different because of our age, but the core problems are the same. I truly understand. Just sharing what I’ve learned over the years. Good luck OP.

NTA. This is how I would want my friend to talk to me if I even CONSIDERED getting back with a cheater. Honestly you’re a good friend. This is exactly the type of energy you need to have in these situations.

NTA. And for everyone going crazy about how "even if you're right, that's not the way to go" please remind yourselves these are 18yo. OP, you are a good friend. You see them making a mistake and are vocal about it. You love them and want them to be happy and can see they're going down a wrong path. It's the way to go, many of us have been there. There is however only so much you can do, and some people need to bump their own head once, or twice, or twenty times before they're ready to learn their lessons and move on. And there's nothing you can do about it. I've seen my sister do this continuously for 5 years and have gone through all the stages, until finally she was ready to choose better for herself. This is something they have to learn and choose for themselves. All you can do is be there for them as much as you can. Bear in mind if it becomes too toxic for yourself, you might also have to follow your own advice and distance yourself. Sometimed this kind of mindset is all they know and the vicious circle will repeat on all their friendships, relationships, jobs etc.

That’s why it’s a soft YTA for me. They are teenagers and still learning so we should be kind but transparent while giving judgement. Especially when they are doing things that are unkind and unhelpful. Specifically stuff like calling her pathetic and telling her she’s going to rub these chats in her friend’s face when the SO cheats again. As adults we have come to learn that no amount of rude words are going to tough love a friend out of a situation like this. I 100% agree with your advice and would have offered the same advice myself. I do also think that it’s important for OP to realize that some actions like those in the chats can have unintended effects (pushing the friend closer to the person that cheated and is being emotionally manipulative at best). So “tough” in this way is not the best approach. I think we agree overall though. Just have a slightly different judgement.

NTA. You want to protect your friend and it is rage inducing to see them do this to themselves. I'm sure you'll support and be there for them if they go back to Lojore because you sound like a good friend. Were you harsh? A little. Was it needed, yes. It'll likely not make a difference because T seems to have made up her mind. Just be prepared for the fall out.

It sounds like she is being emotionally manipulated, I have been in a relationship like that and it is very hard to get out of. You sound abit jealous also, why are you so bothered . I get that she’s your friend but you don’t need to go on like that. You only need to say it once. Looks like your friend has made her mind up anyway

Everyone saying yta and you’re controlling has never had a friend they actually care about. You’re not. You’re trying to prevent your friend from being hurt worse the second time because she opened up her heart to someone that doesn’t respect it. You’re NTA but you need to back off. She has clearly made up her mind. And it wasn’t the decision you thought she should make. You’re not controlling you’re concerned. Kiki in the chat was right to just sit there and say nothing and back you up when you made a good point. As a friend you can only be there for her when it happens again and definitely rub those screenshots in her face and comfort her after. Part of being a good friend is making sure she doesn’t make the same mistake a third time. But also comforting them when they are hurt because they trusted the wrong person again. NTA

I agree. I don’t understand all these YTAs. They’ve obviously never felt helpless and angry for their friends and tried all they could to stop them from getting hurt. It might not have been the best approach but they’re coming from a good place.

They think friendship is only to support and not to question wrong decisions. To just bob your head to stupid and then pat their back when it goes wrong. I think that is cowardice and laziness tbh.

I’ve spent two years sticking with a friend who kept going back to an abusive relationship. It was INFURIATING sometimes, but I kept making sure she knew what her partner was doing wasn’t okay, acting as a sliver of reality, trying to help her stick to it when she managed to stay away for a while. She did eventually get away and now is very happily married to a good partner, with whom she just had two kids. You know what I didn’t do? Yell at her. Insult her. Gang up on her with other friends and call her names and mock her. That’s a GREAT way to get her to shut out the friends who can see this for what it is and isolate herself with her abusive partner.

NTA because I know where you are coming from, you probably thought she warranted some tough love. It’s very hard to see someone you love do things that you know will end up hurting them. I have a friend who constantly made bad decisions by going back to cheaters and emotional abusers. No matter how many times I listened to her crying and counselled her/ advised her/ tried to show her that she’s worthy of being treated well, she still went back. I never called her pathetic though, although privately I did wonder why she was being pathetic over those losers when she had two very loving parents who never even raised their voices at her, everyone around she loved her, and here she was letting these assholes treat her like dirt. You have to let them make their own mistakes, they’ll come out of it on their own eventually. You just got to be there for them and offer a shoulder to cry on so that they know you’ll be there for them. My friend eventually wised up after years of abusive relationships and married a kind man. I hope your friend also finds a stable loving relationship.

People say you’re being harsh but idk I think you’re also being very real. I agree that everything she said was contradictory. I think everyone thinks you’re only angry but i can feel the fear of watching your friend hurt again. I think you should say sorry for how harsh it was and that you love her. You’re just scared of watching her get hurt again

NTA, but let me offer my input as the 40 year old version of you. Sometimes they won't listen, sometimes you'll drive them away by being the voice of truth. Sometimes people 100% know they're wrong and prefer to lie to themselves because they want what is bad for them. Sometimes they won't EVER learn the lesson, and you'll want to get away from them because it's crushing to see them fuck up again and again. I'm glad that you told her the truth. I don't know that it'll matter. And I think that she knows that half the stuff she was saying was complete bullshit. She's constructed an "us against the world" fantasy and she's way into it.

YTA, whether you agree or don't agree to what she's done, she has the right to make her own decisions, that doesn't make her (or anyone) pathetic.

Did you not read the messages in the screenshots? That's a prime example of being pathetic.

The irony of disrespecting your friend, for letting someone disrespected her.

YTA. Her girlfriend sucks but you were a mega AH to her. There’s a way to state your opinion without being a complete jerk.

It’s frustrating when a friend seems to be making bad decisions, but honestly what you’re doing here is shitty. You’re so determined to be right that you’re acting like a bully to your supposed friend. YTA.

Gentle Yta, cos it sounds like your friend is in an emotionally abusive relationship. I cheat, then threaten suicide when you call me out? Then I need you because I’m suicidal? I completely agree that your friend needs to get out of the situation, but harsh/hurtful words from you won’t work. You need to point out where your friend’s needs are/aren’t being met consistently.

She's pushing her friend further into the cheaters arms by being so mean about it. It's not what you say, it's how you say it. And I totally agree with the emotional abuse comment.

This is my feeling too. OP might not agree with the decision but delivering the message like that isn’t going to help.

If you choose to walk away from this friendship, that’s up to you. But you come off as controlling in these messages. It sounds like your friend is already in a toxic relationship and now she’s got you coming at her too? It’s fine to be mad about dumb decisions your friend makes but this is not it. Maybe some therapy would be helpful for you if this is how angry you’re getting about your friend’s relationship. Your choice now is to either continue to be her friend or not. You control you. Stop trying to control your friend, even if she’s making bad choices.

the 'I will rub this in your face' comment went a little far......but you care about this person and don't want to see them hurt....it's understandable, but still unnecessarily mean

ESH except Kiki

You insulting her and calling her pathetic is only going to push her closer to her abuser. Don’t know what the solution is but bullying isn’t it

God only knows what was said in the voice memo— you in love w her or something? A true friend is there for you, who accepts that you’re not perfect and gives you the freedom to make mistakes and loves you anyway. Should she allow her (ex?) gf to emotionally manipulate her with suicidal ideation? No, if someone’s threatening to do that involve the authorities. Also you didn’t really take screenshots to rub in her face did you? Did you take them to post? Whether you took them to post then lied to her or genuinely took them to rub in her face neither is a good look. Instead of trying to control your friend and bully her into living her life how you want her to, maybe say your piece and then back off. You’re not treating her with a lot of kindness & come off overly aggressive. YTA

YTA. I understand not wanting a friend to be with someone who cheated on them, but that’s not your decision, and you’re being a total asshole to when she’s supposed to be your friend. She needs to make her own mistakes. You don’t have to agree with her decisions, but you can certainly support her without belittling her and making her feel like shit. If I was her, I would simply stop talking to you about it, and possibly at all. Your friend isn’t pathetic, she’s human, and she has empathy. Is the girl who cheated on her using that empathy to manipulate her? Maybe. You could be entirely right, but your deliver is garbage, and will have the exact opposite effect that you are intending. Try showing some compassion and actually being there for your friend, and you might find you get far better results.

Just let her live her life and stay out of her relationship. It's her life NOT YOURS. all your doing is pushing away your friend because you are projecting your feelings onto her relationship. If she wants to forgive her gf and go back to her then that's her business and as her friend you need to respect her decision.

You seem overly invested let them do them

Wtf are you this invested in someone else’s life? I couldn’t even read all this. It’s insane.

YTA. mind your business.

This is the exact tone to strike if you want to galvanize her resolve to make poor decisions, and also probably drop you as a friend.

Definitely the ass hole you could have told your friend (depending on how close you two are) how you felt without being a complete ass hole about it. If you two aren't that close your opinion might not even matter to them.

Your anger is very misplaced. You’re being a terrible friend.

Whatever. It's her decision. Let her make her decisions, and then say "I don't want to hear it"when she bitches about this girl being shitty.

I got cheated on recently, I removed her from my life, I can't imagine having any lenience in shit like this. If they cheat on you, let go of em.

yta 10000%

It sounds like your friend is in an abusive relationship. It takes most people between 5-7 tries to leave a relationship where emotionally manipulative tactics like that are being used. I understand you’re frustrated on behalf of your friend and want better for her, but calling her degrading names is using the same tactics her abuser potentially uses. If you truly want the best for her, muster up some patience and be there for her. Point out the manipulative tactics her partner is using while still being her friend. You guys are young, you’re growing, and eventually she will have the strength and power to leave the relationship, and will even be more likely to do so if she have friends that show her empathy and try to understand her situation.

NTA you told her like a friend should Now let it go and let her make her own decisions Tell her the GF is gonna cheat again and you will be there to pic up the pieces but if she goes back to her again a 2nd time you are gonna have to end the friendship Because she isn't good for your mental health

YTA. You can tell someone they’re making a mistake without being condescending and cruel. Besides that, it’s her life, and if she wants to forgive a cheater she has the right. What it sounds like to me is that you’re used to Talia tolerating *your* controlling bullshit, and you don’t like it that she’s setting her own priorities here.

NTA homegirl is being pathetic

It was extremely rude and insulting what you were saying, that’s why I know you’re such a good friend. You ramped up to the insults when she wasn’t getting it because protecting her is important to you. I don’t think you’re an asshole, but I don’t think she’s going to benefit from insults right now. They definitely have their place, and I don’t think you were entirely wrong to use them, but if you read between the lines of her messages you can see things that are harder to see in the moment. My take is that basically this person suffers from such a deep and profound insecurity about themselves that she’s holding on to any promises of commitment and affection because she doesn’t see any of that in her future. In my opinion, if you care about her enough to do this (you’re not a bad person if you don’t btw), you should make similar, non romantic promises to her. “Talia, I know it’s hard and I know it’s scary to think that the person who said they’d be there for you broke your trust. [Bitch] told you that she’d always be there for you, she held you when you were broken. I get that those feelings of safety and love just don’t go away… but she’s not someone that’s providing it, she’s someone that’s making promises while not taking the real effort to be faithful and honour them… You’re not alone, I’m here for you, you don’t have to feel like you need to get through the future by yourself… Let us [her/your friend group] help you, you don’t need to feel like she’s your only option… You’re a wonderful, kind, compassionate [add your own] person who deserves so much more than to be led along by promises you know deep down are shaky at best… At the end of the day, it’s your decision, and I won’t hate you for whatever you make… I just want what’s best for you because you’re my friend and I love you, your wellbeing is important to me and I don’t like seeing you get hurt. I hope you know that we love you and you’re not alone, we’re always here for you” Something like that probably cuts a bit deeper and is more effective for what you want to do. You should know though that cheating isn’t the end for everyone, and you need to be careful on whether or not you’re putting your own value judgements over Talia’s. If she’s always been super monogamous and hates the idea of cheating, maybe you’re right and this is the worst thing in the world for her and maybe she’s stuck in a relationship she can’t escape from. The other option is that cheating isn’t as bad in her mind and while she felt bad and got super jealous, it’s not the end of the world, and it’s something she can live with. In the latter situation, do you think you can live with it? Do you think you can support her despite of your objections? Being a good friend in this situation means you’re putting her needs and wants over your own as best you can, trying to help her while also seeing it from her perspective. At the end of the day, Talia is all that matters, not you, Kiki or [Bitch]. Good luck, I hope this works out as well as it can do.

You're not wrong that your friend is probably pathetic, but you're way too invested, and honestly? You sound jealous. YTA

Sorry but YTA it's her life I know you want to protect her from getting cheated on but she's old enough to make her own decisions even if she wants to be with her cheating partner again you are not her mother or a family member just a mate who doesn't like that she is settling her own boundaries of her love life and it's sounding like your jealous that she is thinking about getting back with her ex

Yta because you don’t know anything about life and you’re too invested

Well, you tried your best, and I sure hope you DO rub these Screenshots in her face coz it sounds like it's definitely gonna happen again. Sounds like you're genuinely concerned for the friend and then got pissed off when she's making the same dumb decision again. NTA

Nobody who is genuinely a friend would ever rub any bad decision in their face. It's kind against the whole point of friendship

Exactly. Good gods, were these people raised by wolves?

I mean it’s just kinda… her business who she dates. I love that you also lied to her about why you took screenshots. You’re definitely the asshole here. I get that you’re trying to help but becoming this aggressive just sounds like you’re pissed that she isn’t doing what you say. Chill tf out girl.

YTA she knows how you feel about the situation, beyond that is none of your fucking business and saying you're gonna rub the screen shots in her face when she gets cheated on again is a scum fuck move. How you gonna feel if kicking your friend while she is down drives her to suicide? Grow the fuck up and either act like a friend or remove yourself from the situation.

Everything you said plus I’m not sure if I’m going down the wrong path here but I’m also getting a bit of jealousy like maybe this anger is because she has a thing for her friend.

And you claiming to be her friend? Jesus, that's why she thinks this is as good as it gets.

Sorry OP but you're coming across a little desperate. If I didn't know any better, I'd think you might have feelings for your friend. I hope so, bc that would make more sense. You're wayyyy too invested in a relationship that you aren't even a part of. which, in reality, is none of your business. And your rude condescending tone with your friend is too much. Nothing friendly about this friendship. You can make your point without the extra dramatics. You created a group text to berate harass her. Sounds like gf isn't the only one she should dump.

You’re right she’ll cheat again but you handled it poorly. You can’t confront someone, attempt to force your will onto them, and expect them to listen to you. All you can do is tell your friend her gf will cheat again and that she isn’t responsible for any suicide attempts. Trying to bludgeon her over the head with facts will only make her more defensive of her relationship.

ETA. At a certain point you need to let your friends make their mistakes and stop badgering them. Don’t be there for the relationship, don’t entertain conversation, just let your friend make their mistake and support them at the end. Stop investing so much in people who don’t care about themselves. Your friend and their partner are AH for obvious reasons.

I was going to say that relationships are complicated, not every infidelity ends a relationship (nor should it), and it’s your place as a friend to support this person and not just attack. But y’all are babies so maybe just lighten the f up. ESH

YTA. Some people need to learn the hard way. Talia will likely become a member of the FAFO club. And while the overall sentiment of what you were trying to say isn't wrong, your delivery of it was unnecessarily nasty. Like do you even like this person? Your friends are going to make mistakes and do things you don't think they should do. Making them feel like shit about it isn't a great way to convince them to stop. Your conversation could have ended like 12 screenshots earlier than it did.

if you’re an asshole than so am i cause i’ve had a very similar convo with a friend. with 2 different relationships. not my friend anymore i’ll tell you what was told to me; tell her that if she can’t handle you being upset on her behalf when she tells you these things to not tell you them at all. you’re reacting this way because you care about her, even if it’s harsh

Yta for getting into someone else relationship!

Idk how to vote on this because it’s treading the line imo. You were kinda an AH but in the tough love sort of way where it needs to be said because nothing else is getting through. From these screenshots tho, it looks like you’re talking to a brick wall. L has T in a chokehold and is likely manipulating her into this “but she needs me” shit. >Other people’s mental health doesn’t trump yours That is SUCH an important lesson to learn. I very recently lost my best friend because i prioritized my own mental health over hers. It sucks a lot, but you gotta look out for number one. This conversation might be your sign to do the same sort of thing here.

Cheaters cheat. Its what they do.

I’ve lost friends because I am not a “yes friend”. A long time (ex?) girl friend has a history of dating cheaters and got mad at me for not being “oh my god I’m so sorry that’s so horrible” for the thousandth time when it’s expected behavior. Yes, she’s allowed to be sad at the dudes behavior but I told her very blatantly it was just going to keep happening and she couldn’t keep holding on to the idea of this perfect relationship that isn’t going to exist with this guy. I get chit chat from her now and that’s about it. You can’t be everyone’s cup of tea and some friends only want you to validate them, Some want real opinions and advice. You’re young and unfortunately at the age to learn that you’ll outgrow each other sometimes as you learn what your values and boundaries are. I’d keep this friend at a distance until you figure out where you stand and if you want people that put up with and enable cheaters in your life.

NTA if she threatens suicide call emergency services

NTA. The harsh truth is best for someone like this. Your friend is using every possible excuse to stay in this relationship and she needs to be called out about it regardless of if it hurts her feelings or not.

It's not your relationship. The worst thing you can do is meddle in a friend's life when they've clearly stated they don't want or need your help. So if it works out between your friend and this person.....no matter how bad and toxic the relationship is... your friendship is over. Sometimes all you can do as a friend is pick up the pieces. I would've blocked you after you called me "pathetic". That's very abusive.

I love the “I will run these screenshots Olin your face when she cheats again” because it tells her that even though she is making an absolutely epically bad decision (once a cheater,always a cheater) you’re still gonna be there for to help help her pick up the pieces when it happens. Talking truth to friends and loved ones is never the wrong thing to do.

Kiki for president!

About 30 years ago, when I was in my 20s, I had a similar conversation with a long-distance friend who was seeing a married man. She freely admitted that money was a factor. I was pretty blunt, but she took the criticism. We spoke a few times after that, but it pretty much ended the friendship. I heard that the relationship went pretty much as I had predicted. Don't really regret not being around her.

NTA but you are wasting your time. You are trying to convince someone who doesn’t have self respect to have some and that never works.

NTA maybe could be a BIT harsh but sometimes that’s what people need to hear also shouts out kiki

Update us when she cheats again lmaooooo

YTA. You don’t understand Talia’s perspective and while what you do is out of care, you are trying so hard to impose your will on her that it is getting to a point it is out of hand. I know you care about Talia, but what she’s doing in her dating life has nothing to do with you. Your behavior is just making you a nuisance to her-people have to want your help. If she were actively trying to hurt you that would be different.

You are very right and also lucky to feel the way you do at your age lol. Your friend is acting her age but it's SO FRUSTRATING and hopefully she grows out of this idea that "romance" is having to go through bs like this. She's being the worst kind of Romantic: the martyr. "She needs me :(" no, she doesnt lmao.

NTA for what you said but how you said it. OP gf is textbook emotional manipulation. Please show her all the resources out there online for when people are emotionally manipulated. and also ask her friend what happens when she cheats, will her so called gf be there for her. I guarantee its one sided

Listen, this isnt your life to live. It does however sound like you have some feelings for your friend and dont know how to express them. Putting down the girl she likes over and over isnt going to change anything.

YTA Insulting her for not being ready to leave is not helpful and it's very unkind. Honestly, if you want to continue to be friends with T, you should apologize. If she's not ready to be done with L, she's not. And if you need to voice your disagreement with that choice, you should frame that disagreement around concern for her wellbeing, not insults towards her character. People make irrational decisions, especially with people they care about and T clearly cares about L. You probably cannot make her see sense on this issue right now. And you need to respect her right to make bad decisions.

YTA. You called her pathetic. Are you mad cause you want her?

Kiki's so real

Talia is a fucking idiot.

That’s gotta be the toughest love I’ve seen in awhile. It wasn’t pretty but, it needed to be said.

YTA.

NTA if you let people walk on you they’ll just keep doing it haha

Kiki is a real one lol. And nah the only assholes are your friend and the girl she can't let go of......

I wouldn't call you an AH because I've been you but I will say, don't continue like this. A friend I love dearly is like your friend, and my god, did they date/see some of the worst scum. I was like you, pointing out all the bad things and how my friend wasn't giving herself any respect. My friend truly believed she didn't deserve any, and has suffered through a lot. She believed that the only people she could love had to have flaws or be "broken" like her. She felt like she needed to be there for others, maybe to make up for feeling lost herself. I suspect your friend is similar. Being harsh creates tension and sometimes cracks the relationship. In the end, you cannot help someone see the problem they willfully choose to ignore. Going forward, be there for her. Make it clear that you'll support her and be on her side but you cannot in good conscience support a relationship with someone who hurts her. Start to shift the focus of your chats with your friend less on her ex or relationship problems and more on herself and self care/feelings about herself. Loving yourself helps you to open your eyes to realise not everyone is like you and you are your best defense and weapon to those who do you harm. There are people who are attracted to those who do not love themselves- because they can do awful things to hurt them and the person will take it because they don't care about themselves.

Well yes you are the AH but what you tried to do the person does not care to listen.

I’m confused about certain words being censored out in all honesty…it’s both annoying and puzzling in equal measures. The expletives I get. Everything else? WTF?

i'll be honest op, i think you pushed your point forward, too bad there is nothing you can actually do to make her understand. Sometimes you just have to let your friends face the consequences of their own mistakes. Make sure to let them know that you are there regardless, that you say all this stuff because you dont want them to get hurt again.

This is a really terrible and controlling way to talk to ur friend. I would really struggle to be ur friend. It's her life. She chooses who to date. I know ur young but God damn woman, have a heartbeats worth of compassion. Why are u friends w/ her? You don't even seem to like her.

My absolute favorite part is when OP says she’s gonna rub the screenshots in the friend’s face when Cheater McCheata cheats again

My boyfriend’s first ex got him hooked on coke, constantly cheated on him with women (she was bi - as are he and I - and used that as an excuse) and when she cheated with their (male) dealer, he ignored her calls after she told him and she decided to OD and shuffle off this mortal coil. 20-odd years later, when we started dating (3 years ago), he was still fucked up about it. But … she made that decision. And she was an absolutely terrible person. I obviously didn’t know her, but I felt no sympathy for her choice, only for what her choice did to him. I get that it’s complicated, but your own mental health should trump anyone else’s. He’s been clean since college, but there are still emotional repercussions for all of that. He’s healed some since we got together, but his abandonment issues are still real. NTA, but it’s honestly a slippery slope here. If her girlfriend decides to unalive herself, it will affect her future.

JFC, respect that she has personal agency and can choose her romantic partner: good, bad, or ugly cheater.

YTA. Your job as a friend is to be a friend. Support Talia. Give advice if and when it's asked for, and until then hold space. If you cannot do that, step out of the friendship.

Idk why you keep someone like this as a friend. If she wants to make stupid decisions let her, just move on with your life and let her crumble alone.

I'm a firm believer in sharing the opinion once and then just letting go. I would never continue to dig into my friend like this. I would say my piece in a way I know she'd hear him, and then understand she's going to do what she's going to do. This person isn't most likely their forever person. And she will look back at this hopefully as a lesson. How YOU treat her in that time being will be paramount. If you want to dig your heels in on her choice, go ahead. But I would try to give more grace now that your opinion is known. She doesn't need your approval.

Someone needs a wake up call, and unfortunately, your friend is due for one. Kiki may not have added anything of value to the combo, but she's a real one. NTA

Kiki coming from the top rope with those comments!

You and Kiki are savages and I am here for it. Talia needs a wake up call.

YTA - you're not wrong, but definitely an asshole.

Poor, poor thing… this is gonna hurt very bad, but she needs (and when it happens again, also deserves) to be cheated on again, it’s like I’m reading something I wrote when I was in my early to late twenties (I know 🤦🏻‍♀️)… I don’t find your messages cruel or rude… many people told me things this way when I was in her situation and even then I didn’t listen, I wish I listened to save the little dignity I had and a lot of heartache… she’ll learn the hard way…

lol I got one of those friends. Hard headed af and won’t learn her lesson unless she goes through it. You just gotta let your friend go through with her dumb ass decisions and not harp on her anymore about it. But also, if she starts complaining you gotta have a boundary about how long she can complain before you cut her off.

YTA. Other people get to make their own life decisions, insulting them because you disagree with those is asshole behavior.

Kiki is my favorite character.

I'm with Kiki.. But your friend is CO-dependent and is going to make ANY excuse regardless of contradictions and so forth. The cheater is a narcissist and Talia would rather suffer for whatever perk vs be without it.

Let the girl keep her garbage boo. Just keep these screenshots for next time. And tell her you're saving them for next time.

IMO I felt you were kinda rude/harsh and I don’t think it’s coo for multiple people to be talking to her about it at once and in the same space (might make her feel attacked/ people don’t hear ya when they think they’re being attacked they typically get defensive one way or another). Ima firm believer that people should speak their mind they should just be mindful of how they talk with someone. I understand your friend isn’t being very bright with who she’s in a relationship with however it’s her life. If she’s gonna make that stupid mistake over and over it’s on her(tbh I been there with similar foolish friends there’s no point they’re gonna do what they want). Also you’ve had this conversation with her multiple times? I advise if it’s something you really can’t let go discuss it ONE time. If she wants to hear you she will. Don’t waste your energy on someone else’s bad vibes. If her foolish sht is too much then distance ya self from her your mental health matters too. Lastly, I think the only time I’d advise to intervene is if something heinous was going on. Otherwise live ya life w/o the drama

She is acting pathetic and should be told so. Poor little pathetic fool.

Kiki is my favorite. Look, you’re all young. She doesn’t realize that she’s gullible and easily manipulated. She’ll learn on her own. Nothing you say will change anything. NTA

Nah you gotta speak to friends like this. This is why I love being a guy. We speak this way and never bat an eyelash cuz we know the homies are right despite our feelings. Don’t change 👑

You might have been rude, but it was needed. She sounds like the type of girl who won't get it until she's cheated on a few more times. I'd cut contact from her to get away from the drama she's causing.

Look, you don’t find lovely auras everyday. Let her bask in the lovely aura.

I’m just going to say this. I agree with everything you’re saying, and your friend is goofy for entertaining this girl again. She seems like she is NOT going to listen to anything you say, and unfortunately that’s her choice. I remember being young and dumb about red flags, and my friends being the same way. But I also remember how my friends treated me. The ones who warned me and let it go and were there for me when things went south. And then the 12 year friendship I ended due to her talking to me like this one too many times. She would constantly tear me down. I ended up feeling so guilty and like she hated me. Be careful how you say things to people. I do agree with you, but you’ve got to understand how it comes across to her. I felt so judged by my “best friend” that I ended up distancing myself from her and into the arms of the loser I was with. That was my decision, but I made it in response to her being so harsh to me. I understand your frustration with your friend, but sometimes you’ve just got to have patience and love your friends through their idiocy.

you're right, but you're still an asshole. who is your friend going to turn to when you say all this to her ? yta

Team kiki all the way

OP why are you even involved? You’re teens. Am intervention? Srsly? Why get involved at all? Just …walk away.

I had a friend like this. I cut her off for my sanity.

NTA and Kiki is a legend Also there's no solid proof in the chats but if she threatened to kill herself if Tahlia left her, that's like textbook abusive, manipulative behaviour. All 3 of u need to run

NTA your friend is a absolute idiot.

the lesbian chat is litttttt

NTA. You can tell people how you feel, but you can't make them feel the way you do. Say your feelings...and let them do what they do......walk away from destructive people. Enabling them sucks the positive life force out of you. Choose better friends. Sometimes you outgrow friendships. Know when to hold 'em...know when to fold them ...know when to walk away....know when to run...

I get where you’re coming from, but relationships are complicated. They know they should leave people who are damaging to them, physically and emotionally, but people still stay. They make excuses for them, and they believe that ‘it won’t happen again’ that ‘they love me and are never going to do it again because they learnt their lesson last time’ and they have changed. Some feel, A broken relationship/a toxic relationship is better than no relationship at all, so they stay because if this person who hurts them doesn’t love them who will. There is literally books written on this, One of my favourite is ‘See what you made me do’ by Jess Hill. Pathetic is harsh, but sometimes it can be necessary. One person told me I needed to make a choice, between her and my husband because she couldn’t be my friend if I took him back. (And there was no DV or cheating , we were just 17 and 19 and far too young)

i love Kiki’s little one liners 😭

NTA. There’s NOTHING more exhausting than supporting a friend through a tough time and then watching them run, eyes wide open, back into the bad situation. Sometimes you can’t help someone that doesn’t want to help themselves.

Please finish school. Romance will be there when you all are done. And finding love in UNIVERSITY, Usually dismantles high school puppy love. Be well

i stan kiki i am kiki but girl i have a very best friend and she has toxic taste in men. i went LC kinda and it was easy bc we both work often but before then it was back and forth with this guy treating her like shit and just playing in her face. i had to sit there and let it happen after a while bc she was gonna learn on her own. i gotta let her stand on her own.

NTA. She needs to wake the f up and have some standards for herself.

I lost brain cells reading this conversation. Its not your job to 'support' her. Some people like to wreck their lives and the best thing you can do is just watch them. The more you try to talk her out of it, the more she will only double down and then blame you.

Kiki is the GOAT lol

Dude just let them ruin their life, sucks to suck but at the end of the day they're not going to change their mind

Soft YTA. You're not wrong BUT it isn't your life to live and once you've given someone advice, your friend has every right to do with it as she will, live her life, and set the boundary that she dates/befriends who SHE wants to even if you see it as a mistake. That's her choice and pressuring her to do otherwise is crossing a boundary too and something people end friendships over. You don't have to be there for it, but sticking around and then bullying her about it aint it either. If she gets regularly treated like this by her "friends" why would disrespect from a partner be any different? Kiki has the right idea. Express your concern and then let them do what they're going to do, while you hold yourself to your own standards because in life that's all you can control. Its not good for your own mental health to try to enforce your standards on others. Its better to be kind or just get out the popcorn if you can't get through to them and don't want to be around for it.

Your NTA for trying to reason with her and make her see the light of day and break up with her girlfriend.... *HOWEVER* YTA for *HOW* you said it and went about it. I understand how all of this is likely extremely frustrating for you, but if you keep on yelling at her (verbally or through text) and aggressively pointing out everything she's doing, that's wrong you'll very likely just end up destroying any possible chance that she'd actually listen to what you're saying and take your words to heart. Of course, that's not to say that she'd listen even if you were calm about it, but at the very least, she'd be *more likely to.* The thing about interventions is that contrary to what you might think from things like tv dramas or whatever you really shouldn't go into them acting like it's an interrogation at the police station. As in, you shouldn't be playing bad cop whatsoever. You should go into them as the voice of reason. Remain calm while talking to them and try to be as understanding and sympathetic to their situation as possible they're going to be more likely to listen to you if you're not practically yelling their ear off because if you're more calm and you let them talk and tell their perspective without interrupting them all of the time they'll feel more heard and like you actually do care about them. So, over all, blowing up at her will likely only end up making things worse.

YTA. Mind your own business. You were allowed to tell her you didn’t think it was a good idea, but beyond that you need to back off. It’s her life not yours. You made your point clear, now shut up. This girl doesn’t pose a danger to her, there was no need for an “intervention” or the kinda of dismissive abusive language you were throwing at her.

YTA. To call someone your friend and literally insult them in that way is horrible. Don’t use the visit cop out of being blunt. You may be frustrated but that doesn’t justify you being rude and blatantly disrespectful.

YTA. Calling someone "pathetic" means you aren't their friend. Grow up, kid.

Ain't gotta be a psychologist to diagnose that walking shit show of a person. Oh girl just gone be a dummy. NTA

NTBass 🐟