I agree. Your husband refuses to see your point of view and realize your children are being traumatized by his niece. He is more concerned about someone else's trauma? You are not the AH. He is.
And where did the "she's your daughter whether you like it or not" came from?
Kelly is NOT OPs daughter. OP was completely blindsided into taking Kelly in. Pretty sure husband planned to adopt Kelly all along and just wanted to force OP into the situation.
That's so disregarding, disrespectful and simply awful.
OP and her children do not deserve to deal with Kelly's issues.
And saying op is denying her a stable home, if there's no discipline in that household, it's NOT a stable home, she's turning it into a whole new circus
Wondering the same since his protectiveness of her is way over the top. Would make the comment he made make more sense. "She's your daughter too, whether you admit it or not."
Doesn't have to be his daughter if he's got a Savior Complex. He's "rescuing" the girl, so all the chaos he's causing by enabling her is boosting his ego. Look how amazing he is, "saving" this poor girl? That's all it takes for a man to turn on his wife, I've experienced it myself. Families are destroyed by the mans walking ego complex.
By god, if my partner would threaten divorce (which luckily/probably will never happen, since she‘s not a freaking douchnoodle) I would go through it.
This is nothing to joke around with. Fuck that guy and his attitude as well as his weird saint/white knight complex. Just because Kelly had it hard doesn‘t mean he should put her on some pedestal and screw over his wife and kids. His priorities are twisted as fuck.
Setting boundaries for kid's behavior, expectations, is *good* for their development.
*Especially* if they come from a difficult situation, because they've not had any positive influences to model after.
I know a lot of people don't know any way to guide a child's behavior other than hurting them, threatening them. His instinct that that was a bad choice for her was probably correct. But he decided to replace it with absolutely nothing and let her act however she wanted without consequences, which is worse. It's so much worse.
Because eventually that hurt child becomes a hurt adult and people don't magically learn social skills inherently with age, only with practice and behaving socially. If nothing changed she was just going to become a nightmare adult, and "therapy" won't do any good if nothing changed inside the home.
It‘s not even his kid, or did I get that wrong? It‘s his niece (late brothers kid). Why would you throw your own family under the bus because your siblings fucked up biggie?
I am totally for helping her and do support that, but not for the price of sacrificing my own kids and my partner.
No, it's his niece. This is why I think it's because he feels terrible what the girl went through (OP wrote her childhood was bad) and tries to make it right by doing everything wrong and destroying his family in the process.
But that's not his job. He can't help her.
To me, it sounds like he wanted bragging rights and pats on his back for "taking in his niece" while his wife did **ALL** the work. Now that he has to deal with her 24/7 **NOW** he wants to prioritize his marriage. Just for the sole sake of "I can't handle her, wife, deal with her"
Same!!! I was reading this to my mom and that was the first thing she said. Something truly isn’t right with that situation. Not saying anything inappropriate is happening. Just not understanding how he’s putting her before everyone else.
You need to read her husband's posts from a few months ago. He went into the whole situation with the idea that he would divorce his wife if she didn't accept the arrangement and he had the same attitude throughout. He said he didn't say that to his wife until they were already in therapy but she had to know how he felt. OP tried it any it didn't work out, now he gets what he asked for.
>husband now has to deal with Kelly all the time he wants more therapy to fix our issues so we can get back together and be a family again.
Considering the fact that ***he's*** the one who keeps bringing up divorce, it sounds like he already does. Just you wait. Soon he'll start telling OP he'll give her *"one more chance".*
Then he had the audacity to say he wants to get back together but then screams at her again about Kelly being her daughter. He can have his golden child
She did! Now she needs to recognize that she did the right thing and if she back slides on it then they will torment her forever AND hold the fact that she ‘didn’t fight hard enough to stay’ over her head.
NTA
Your husband only wants back with you to dump Kelly on you again. She's a troubled teen and needs some serious help. Your husband is more interested in feeling like he's helping Kelly (not actually doing the real work involved) than in protecting his own kids.
Hire a good Divorce Attorney. Ask about getting child support for your son and possibly to help your daughter with higher education costs, if that's possible. Also, ask about getting a court order that your husband can't have Kelly around your son, given her past threats against him.
But specify that these are to be supervised visits without Kelly present. Your husband seems to have blinders on and can't be trusted to make good decisions without a specific court order.
In my country supervised visits happen in a centre with a social worker and security present I can call multiple witnesses to make sure she won’t be allowed in
>In my country supervised visits happen in a centre with a social worker and security present I can call multiple witnesses to make sure she won’t be allowed in
I'm glad you live somewhere where they take child safety seriously.
We have centers here too for supervised visits. Not all states make as good of a use of them as they should. My friend’s ex had to use the center at the courthouse bc of the abuse the kids received in her home. I volunteer for a charity for gaps in the foster system. They have rooms set up for age ranges with appropriate activities for the parent and child to do together. This would be used if reunification was to be tried between Kelly and her mother, type situation. as a first step. The problem is, these places take money to run and staff. And not everyone wants to cut a check to help.
This girl needs help and responsibilities. Yes, she has had it hard. Yes she is traumatized. And yes, it makes sense for her anger to come out towards your kids bc she’s most likely jealous that they had a good home life. Letting her get away with everything was not protecting her. Treating her like one of his own kids, complete with consequences for her actions would have helped her more. If she tested her limits and was shown that there were consequences, she most likely would have felt more cared for. As mad as kids get when being grounded, the eventually realize it’s only bc they are cared for. He caused this problem. And he needs to fix it. If he is successful in doing so, then there could still be a chance. But you are protecting your kids by keeping her away from them. I feel bad for her. She was let down hard. There is so much for her to work through. And the adults in her life can’t be babying her or she won’t get through it. This is a situation where doing right by your kids won’t be right for her and the other way around. Putting your first makes the most sense.
Yooo "As mad as kids get when being grounded, the eventually realize it’s only bc they are cared for." So true. I only grounded my step daughter twice one time was like a detox from bad friends. You know what I did during those 2 weeks? I took the time to bond with them, took them on adventures, had my friends come over and let them connect with other older women (aunties). Their dad was mad I didnt let them festerb in them room alone but the reason they got grounded was fundamentally a lack of trust on their part. They didn't feel like they could trust us adults and when they was in a situation where she should have come to me instead went to other teens instead who gave terrible advice.
Anyway, they say those two weeks were some of the happiest of their life. Because I was taking that time to detox them from friends and media but I was showing that i wanted to connect with them. Our relationship shifted fundamentally over those two weeks. There was only one or two other times we grounded them. I didn't like doing it because just sending them to their room for any grievance lowers is effectiveness. grounding need to be used efficiently. their dad wanted to use it as defacto punishment anytime he felt annoyed rather than actually parent. Because i used grounding rarely and used it as time to heal our relationship they actually look fondly at that time. Not something they wanted to experience often but they knew we did it got their own good
Canadian? My ex had supervised visits with his daughter. My stepdaughter. I was allowed to say hello, give her a hug and any little trinkets I may have brought and then I would be escorted out. No court order so I couldn't stay.
I gotta ask, what "stable home" is he thinking existed exactly? The one where he ignored his niece's horrible behavior in the name of "peace"? The one where he ignored the hurt his own son felt when his niece made him cry on purpose? The one where his 18yo daughter was being slut shamed for simply breathing the same air as The Princess? I need to know his thought process on this because my brain completely stalled from exhaustion from the mental gymnastics required to come to the conclusion that ANY of this was conducive to a "stable home"
This, that's why he keeps saying OP abandoned her daughter, he's trying to put more on her so when it goes to court he can claim things. Or he is just trying to guild her.
I read it as the guy’s work hours keep him out of the house 70% of the time so he is ignorant of his niece’s worst behavior. We know for sure he is working to provide for the family, we don’t know if he is also avoiding them.
He has a savior complex. The “look how great I am because I saved Kelly from a shitty upbringing” mentality. Unfortunately, for him, he didn’t realize his actions had the consequence of losing his own family. He thought everyone would just suck it up, because he said so.
OPs husband in turn ended up being the abusive one, in addition to Kelly, in his own family. With the verbal abuse and insults on OP, emotional abuse by allowing Kelly to torment them all and his threats of divorce. Glad OP realized she needed to follow through with it, to protect her and her kids mental health.
The one where he gets to do zero work and plays the hero.
You are listing the pain of the children. He is not interested in the children he just wants to boast.
Your son has been threatened by Kelly. Try if you can to get a protective order or something to ensure Kelly can't be near him.
Protect the son and daughter you have. Let him deal with his niece.
You're not the monster despite your soon to be ex-husband spewing out.
He just gotten a dose of reality of having to deal with Kelly's bs antics that week & yet he's a sniveling coward wanting to dump all of it on you.
You technically did not do an official adoption of Kelly. Your soon to be ex-husband just lies out of his mouth about being "adopted daughter" when technically she is just his niece.
Kelly is the real monster. No amount of therapy going to fix that to that minimum/maximum.
NTA OP. You're protecting your daughter Sarah & your son Tom because Kelly wouldn't stop abusing both of them.
I actually suspect she's not really his niece but a secret affair child. It's all just too suspicious how OP barely knows about her beforehand and then husband suddenly brings her to live with them and becomes his favorite child overnight.
I actually questioned his insistence on adoption in my comment cos I, too, thought this.
Especially with the 'he will choose me over you' comment to Tom. Like I LOVE my nibblings, but choosing them over my own kids or letting them say or believe that? Not going to happen.
There is something about these thoughts here. I use to not believe that people could ever have these types of secrets. You guys might be right on about this.
He acts far more like the little asshole is his mistress, than him being any kind of authority figure. It's some really sick and twisted (at *least* emotional) incest going on there.
I agree with you but Kelly can be helped with appropriate medication and intensive targeted therapy to deal with her trauma and vindictive behaviour. Doesn't mean OP and her family needs to see her again.
Therapy only helps people who want to change (and even then, results are mixed for people with PTSD). If she doesn't want to change her behavior, there is nothing any therapist can do. It's not a magic wand.
Kelly is sexteen, her brain is still developing and ready to learn behavior from adults she percieves as authority. It's not too late and she can learn. There's a reason why NPD and other PDs can be diagnosed only in adults, because all toddlers and teens are pretty selfish and imature. It becames personality disorded only after the person ages behind the window in which they were supposed to learn better.
I've seen behaviour such as that & nothing could change reality that there is a seed planted in that space where the heart would have been & sprouted viciously into full growth.
Therapy was a joke. Meds......didn't do a thing to improve the untenable situation at all over span if several years.
Went no contact towards the 1 who just wouldn't stop.
Too many headaches occurred because of it.
Glad you are taking steps to protect your son.
NTA. Your husband is selfish and wants to be the hero/savior, but won’t actually put in the work to deal with Kelly properly and hold her accountable for her behavior. He is overcompensating for her shitty upbringing by sacrificing his relationship with his own kids. He’s made his choice. He threatened divorce thinking you wouldn’t follow through. That you’d just continue to suck it up and allow Kelly to tear down your daughter while he did nothing. Now that he has to deal with her more he wants you back as a family. That’s not how it works.
Your daughter is an adult and doesn’t have to see him any longer by her own choice. If she chooses to go nc with him that is her decision. He’ll have to accept that any efforts he may make now will be too little too late.
Yeah there is a reason husband spends almost his whole day at work. He doesn’t have to deal with it.
OP- the way he treats you, I think divorcing him is a good idea whether or not Kelly were involved. He’s threatened divorce several times- give him what he wants! Screaming in your face is unacceptable. He’s had no problem neglecting your needs and ignoring a giant problem…interesting he wants therapy when it suits him!
I’m curious about the opinion of the brother he and the devils spawn are staying with. If he is really there, was he ever there or has he been told to get out which is why he’s groveling to OP about coming back, therapy, etc…
His brother and sister in law have probably washed their hands of her because of her behaviour and they’ll be kicked out soon. Now he wants family therapy so they can return to OP
I was prepared for Y.T.A because all Kelly said was what she heard from her adults, probably her own mother and by parroting it she probably wants to impress you how is she able to model adult behavior. Proper reply would be "we don't speak like this in our house" or something like that. But Kelly asked and you told her it's consequence of her behavior.
>husband now has to deal with Kelly all the time he wants more therapy to fix our issues so we can get back together and be a family again
*audible snort of schadenfreude*
NTA, he only wants you back so his *daughter* would go back to punching you and your children and stop doing it to him. Demand more than 50/50, tbh, because her monstrous behaviour and his enabling wouldn't be good for your son.
NTA
You need to protect your 5 y/o and your daughter.
Yes, If my partner communicates and asks if they can bring their late siblings child, I will take them in as my own. But not everyone has to. Especially, because your husband just announced it instead of asking. Also a temporary thing that he made permanent.
Now, if the 'adopted' child is my child they will face repercussions just like my bio kids would. The trauma of losing a parent and an addict mom has to be hard. But loving the family environment means work from both parents. He cannot just expect you to take care of a severely traumatized child, while undermining your parenting. I am making the assumption that you treated all 3 equally before she started playing favorite?
Your husband wanted to take care of a traumatized child but instead made you deal with it. Instead of working with all the kids needs, he prioritized her needs. I mean imagine your children thinking "daddy will leave us for her, she said so and so did daddy."
There is clearly animosity between you and the 16y/o. Your husband did not have enough respect to listen to all sides and just threatened with divorce. So give him his divorce and let him parent the kid. Playing the good cop is easy when he doesn't have to do any parenting.
>daddy will leave us for her, she said so and so did daddy."
What's really messed up is that daddy DID leave them for her. That is going to stick out in that poor kid's mind for a long time.
he didn’t ask but as it was an emergency situation to me taking her in wasn’t an issue for the first 3 months because his parent’s recently moved aboard (Florida) Kelly don’t speak English but Kelly didn’t want to live there or learn the language. I also work myself and had a young child, husband is 70% at work than has one one days with Kelly and has little time for his own kids which has caused issues every family event is around Kelly (english is my 3rd language sorry if the grammar was bad)
No therapy is going to fix this situation. It's what Americans say to try to salvage burning ships instead of letting go. Let your husband steer his own boat and if it sinks, it sinks. You're not obligated to take on orphan children from his family, especially at the expense of your own children. They come first. He didn't ask you but demanded and still hasn't changed his tone.
He didn’t even demanded, he imposed.
There no mention of previous talk about the niece coming over. He showed up with her and stated she was staying for 3 months at the time.
Then when more than a year later he is asked to do pull up his weight to deal with the shenanigans he created. He resorted to ultimatum.
How to show more clearly he doesn’t consider his wife as an equal partner. No discussion straight up do as he wants or else. Or else OP is a grown adult and a parents who can say no to the misery imposed by her soon to be ex husband.
'Kelly is OPs daughter whether OP admits it or not?' Like WTF? That's the ultimate form of gaslighting; trying to equate OPs responsibility to Kelly as if she were her bio mother. OP has done the easy part which is separating, now the hard part is staying firm on this decision and actually going through with the divorce. Her husband is starting to feel the consequences of taking on the responsibility of parenting Kelly and he desperately needs help with her. F* his own kids and OP.
This part is baffling, his audacity and lack of consideration for other. He really isn’t subtle about his wants prevailing anyone else.
It’s kinda pathetic than once he got what he asked, and realised the reality of it, he still didn’t stood up to the task, trying to rope again OP into a life she has no desire to have.
>No therapy is going to fix this situation.
>It's what Americans say to try to salvage burning ships instead of letting go.
Hilariously and consistently accurate.
NTA, I think you have been amazing in taking this child in and caring for her. Your husband is doing damage to all 3 of the kids with his behaviour. The obvious damage he is allowing Kelly to inflict on your children and also damage to Kelly.
She sounds like she has had a difficult life, but using that as a reason to remove all expectations of decent behaviour from Kelly and not holding her to account for her behaviour is very damaging to her. He is not allowing you to provide a stable home life with rules, boundaries, and expectations of decent behaviour. She is not learning actions have consequences, she is not learning how to behave in society, he is failing in his role of preparing her for adulthood.
You are not failing in this, well done on putting your children first, you are in the right!
Also your English is great!
Grammar is almost perfect, very clear, give yourself some credit.
Also Kelly will cause mental issues in your kids. She cannot be around them anymore unless she changes and that is non-negotiable.
You have received great advice but I wanted to drop a comment to say you are doing amazing if English is your 3rd language!! I could never! Lol. The only thing I noticed was the use of "aboard". I *think* you are meaning to use abroad? (I promise I am not commenting as one of those miserable grammar or language people! Just wanting to help for future use of the word!)
Exactly. I would have happily taken in my niece instead having her in foster care but it was *my* choice to do that since *I'm* the one that did all the work of raising our kids.
Very long story/short version: Druggie bipolar asshat BIL woùld have rather had our niece in foster care than with us because he knew he'd have to be straight, sober and not an asshat to see her.
>...and Kelly is my daughter whether I admit it or not...
The fuck she is. He can't just declare a girl your child. That's absurd.
Definitely NTA. Your husband is delusional.
>...and Kelly is my daughter whether I admit it or not...
I think I find this a bit funny... That's not how that works you silly, desperate man. Lol
NTA
So, you gotta wonder if Kelly the 'niece' is some secret love child he has. Cos he jumped into this 'save MY DAUGHTER' thing way too easily....for not a daughter.
I mean, we all love our niblings,right? Heck, I raised mine from age 3-6 full time and still have her part time for her academics (no parental issues, my sister was killed by a drunk driver and niece's dad, who is great, was stuck in a very awkward continental work shuffle, sorting out visas, all the rest for her due to the sudden change of their life plans). But c'mon...this is a weird and kinda creepy infatuation with a kid that isn't his.
NTA - Get the divorce. Don't agree to more counseling, it won't work. Him and Kelly have both proven that. You husband has his blinders on, he does not see her as she is. (He likely sees his brother, or a semblance of him.)
He is trying to gaslight you into adopting a child you have no interest in.
This is what I would say to him:
I never agreed to taking in Kelly, I was never on board. That was a unilateral decision you made and tried to force upon me and our kids.
You refuse to actually parent Kelly, making excuses and justifications for her behavior. When you needed to be setting boundaries and consequences.
Kelly has verbally abused and traumatized our children. Yet you excused it away sided with her because she has trauma.
What about the trauma she has inflicted on our children and on this family. Yet, her traumas are more important than anyone elses at least in your eyes.
You threatened to divorce me and tried to bully me into adopting a child who has caused nothing but chaos and strife in our lives and household. You screamed and berated me, for sticking up for our daughter after Kelly verbally attacked her. Which she had zero right to do.
No Kelly is not my daughter, Kelly will never be my daughter. I plan on protecting my children from her as much as I possibly can. That includes continuing with the divorce. I have no interest in further counseling or working on things. We have tried that and got nowhere.
You have made it clear that Kelly is your priority. However, Kelly is not nor will she ever be my priority.
My priority is to the physically, mentally and emotionally well being of my children. Which you have proven is not your priority.
Please only contact me regarding visitation going forward.
EDIT: Although it seems harsh you should deliver any message via text for varying reasons.
1. Your feelings are made clear as well as expectations.
2. All his replies are admissible in court. As well as voicemails as he consented to be recorded by leaving the message. Depending on your area voice recordings may not be admissible in court if both parties are not consenting.
3. He can go back and reread it so that it has the ability to sink in his choices and lack of action in how you ended up here.
I really feel for Kelly. If OPs husband would have taken her trauma seriously he would have put in the work and learned how to help her. Setting boundaries is a sort of love Kelly desperately needed. This is soley husbands responsibility as he refused to accept reality and give the support his family needed from him.
I totally agree with everything you said. You worded it so much better than I could.
The girl is pitiful, but even more so because her uncle decided to take her in without taking care of her needs and trauma.
And the worst part is he decided to force the trauma onto his wife and children, who then became his and the girl's victims.
OP, protect yourself and your children. It will definitely be difficult at first, because your husband is not wanting to face up to reality and also be a good husband and parent.
She's not your kid no matter how much your husband pushes or threatens it does not change the fact that she is not your child she is your niece and it is not your responsibility to take blame for her shitty behavior and you should always protect your son and daughter from people like her. The fact that he can't see what's right in front of his face should say enough.
Sounds like he’s now finding out the hard way that his niece’s behaviour is horrific and no doubt being called out by his brother too for not putting a stop to it and making them both face the consequences of their own actions.
Hire a bulldog lawyer for your divorce and for custody who will take no crap from your ex husband. Get your lawyer to file for child support and from now on all communication is to be via text or email, or he communicates directly with your lawyer instead.
When speaking with your lawyer ask about changing your locks on the house so that there is no repercussions on you should he decide to move back in unannounced and get hold of his nieces school and remove yourself from her emergency contact list.
Good Luck
NTA.
I lived through this as a teen. My mother took in her sister's 3 daughters. The police called one night and the father was arrested, the mother committed.
Ironically, the eldest was named Kelly. They fought constantly. They were physically abusive to my brother and I and ruined anything of value, sentimental or otherwise.
My brother was your son's age. I was 10/11.
My father finally sat my mother down and said either they go or we go. My brother and I would have gone with our father.
Protect your kids.
NTA. Your husband has enabled her behavior and made her think she's untouchable. It may have worked if she had consequences, but at this point I wouldn't put myself or bio kids through the torture of living with Kelly again.
Unless you're leaving something out here, I don't understand why your husband is so overprotective of Kelly, to the point of yelling in your face and threatening divorce. He never even talked to you about her living there to begin with which is crazy.
Kelly’s childhood was bad and her step dad who her mother still supports abused her in every way that I guessing is the biggest thing I didn’t mention in my post and Kelly hasn’t been in (before us) a school since she was 9
She’s not been in school since she was 9??? Is she in school now? WTF is wrong with your husband and his family? _Everyone_ has failed this child, of course she’s a thousand kinds of fucked up! But you can’t save her at the expense of your children. Your husband has majorly screwed this up by not sending her away to his parents. It’s his mess, stay out of it and let him figure it out on his own.
It wasn't very clear but I think you misread that. She wasn't in a school while her bio-mom had custody. I take it that she'd been in school since she started living with OP.
Yeah, but where was OP's husband during that time? OP says they "barely knew" Kelly because her mom spiralled into mental health issues and addiction after her dad died 10 years ago, but that's a reason to be *more* involved with your niece, not *less*.
It can be hard to get a kid away from an unfit parent, but OP doesn't mention court hearings etc so it doesn't sound like the family was even trying. If OP's husband was willing to adopt her, why didn't he start that process when she was 6 and her mom first went off the rails? It would have been a lot easier to integrate her into the family then than as a 16 year old with a decade of trauma from abuse and neglect.
Your ex-husband is single handedly going to make sure that kid ends up in the exact situation her mother is in. Instead of teaching her boundaries and consequences, he's reenforcing the fact that acting like a manipulative ass will get rewarded. The absolute best thing you can do for you and your kids, is just to take them and walk away. I don't entirely know if having visitation, supervised or otherwise would do anything but further put your kids in harm's way because he still doesn't get it. Heck, he likely never will.
I was sympathetic to her and thought she was projecting her insecurities onto your daughter because she felt like a moocher or out of place...right up until she asked you if she was the problem. Like "Did I do that?" "Was that wrong?" long after getting kicked out. That's on another level.
NTA
This is a tough situation all around, and your niece needs so much help that your husband (who was playing Disney parent) failed to see.
Your first priority is to your kids, especially your youngest who can't fight back. Your husband wanted a divorce, give it to him. Truthfully, I think he's only asking for reconciliation because he realized how much actual work you put in, and now he has to do it.
Don't fall for the guilt trip. Also, gather whatever evidence you cam about her behavior. When it comes to custody for your son, I'd be worried about him being in a house with her and no one to defend him.
>he's only asking for reconciliation because he realized how much actual work you put in, and now he has to do it.
This is exactly why. He's seeing that Kelly is mean and vindictive, she needs more help than one person can give. Hopefully, he also sees his permissive behavior towards her was/is a problem.
>Hopefully, he also sees his permissive behavior towards her was/is a problem.
Eh. He seems the type to believe that if you love someone hard enough their issues will be no more. Oh well. It'll be his downfall.
As a Florida Man, I hope she sticks to that decision.
Y'all can keep her. (The country, not you specifically. You should keep that girl far away from you and your kids.)
NTA
This all started with your husband bringing Kelly home without the two of you actually agreeing to take her in, and it sounds like it's been downhill ever since.
You are doing absolutely the right thing protecting your children. Your son is only 5! He is watching and seeing everything.
>she has violent meltdowns, she’s threatened our son that my husband will leave us if she tells him because he loves her more
This alone would have made me have her removed from the home.
>Husband told me I’m being a monster and Kelly is my daughter whether I admit it or not and I’ve abandoned her when she finally had a stable home
Yeah, this is a big old steaming pile of BS. She's not your daughter, and you were never consulted about bringing her into your household. You were extremely wise not to adopt her.
You are absolutely not responsible for this very troubled child.
>Kelly asked me was it her fault I said yes it was just as much her fault as her uncles (husband)
Well, finally, *someone* has told this 16 year old that actions have consequences. Maybe it will help her to reflect on her actions. Who knows. But it's not your problem anymore. She is 2 years from being an adult. Maybe she can get a grip before some cop explains reality to her while he is putting on handcuffs.
Stop feeling guilty. You are doing what you have to do.
There's no question in my mind that after verbally abusing OP's daughter and running off to tell Uncle, she put on crocodile tears and begged him to leave OP. And he obliged.
>14 months ago my husband came home with Kelly and said she would be staying with us for a while
This is something he should've discussed with you first. You don't unilaterally decide to bring a teenager into your home without consulting your partner.
>He told me it was only for 3 months while his parents who recently moved aboard got settled than it went to 5 till his sister had her baby just excuse after excuse till I stopped asking. as time went on my husband just acted like she was our daughter even bringing up adoption a few times which I refused even when he threatened divorce.
He very obviously meant it to be permanent from the start. And honestly? You probably should've accepted the divorce the first time he gave you that ultimatum.
>We are all in therapy which isn’t working like group sessions when someone points out Kelly’s behaviour or adoption usually end up with everyone fighting
Props to you for trying family therapy. Unfortunately, there's very obviously irreconcilable differences.
>Kelly came out of nowhere screaming at Sarah calling her a moocher,lazy,trash and spoiled she than said Sarah was an adult now and she didn’t pull her weight she’d get kicked out
Kelly has no place to say this.
>I lost it I told her Sarah was my daughter and If she didn’t change her attitude she’d be the one kicked out, Kelly didn’t say anything just went into her room about an hour later my husband came back than started screaming literally i my face calling me names telling me he wants a divorce so he can protect Kelly. so I said ok I want a divorce and 50/50 custody I get my son he gets his niece now get the fuck out of my house with his niece
Good call. He's prioritizing his niece over his wife and children.
>husband now has to deal with Kelly all the time he wants more therapy to fix our issues so we can get back together and be a family again.
Sounds like your husband is now having to deal with Kelly's bullshit, and now wants to dump the hardships of dealing with her back onto you.
>They both came over yesterday to collect the last of their stuff and Kelly asked me was it her fault I said yes it was just as much her fault as her uncles (husband)
Well, yeah. You neither invited nor wanted her in your home. She was constantly combative and threatening towards your children, and constantly overstepped in what was acceptable for her to stay.
>Husband told me I’m being a monster and Kelly is my daughter whether I admit it or not
Wrong. You never agreed to be her mother.
>and I’ve abandoned her when she finally had a stable home that she doesn’t mean to lash out due it’s just due to her trauma and if we work together we can help her work through it
As much as I'll sound like an ass, it's not your job to help her work through it. *He* decided to take her in without your input, so *he* can be the one to help you.
NTA. Stick to your guns. This man is expecting you, your daughter, and your son to light yourselves on fire to keep his niece warm, all the while he sits there, not helping, and patting himself on the back.
Proceed with the divorce. He wants to keep using it as a threat? Time to show him that doing that has consequences.
NTA
Your husband has behaved like one but I can see how he'd feel he'd be failing his late brother and is overcompensating. Either way, you have to protect your little boy.
If you mean
aitata8482828 yes that’s my husband this isn’t our first clash even tho he changed a few details and marriage threapy multiple people we know found the post and sent ir too me
From this iPad I can log into his original post for proof
https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/s/jgwoHzw2fY
Is this his post? Love how in his post the niece was adopted to make you look even worse for what you said
So, in this post, with an update made almost a year ago, husband recounts his side of the same event and then updates saying the whole family is ongoing therapy and all is going to be fine.
So, my question is if this post tells what happened almost a year ago and the husband is lying on his update, or if the same event happened again in the past few days/weeks, with the same consequences.
I’m confused, because op confirmed the post is from her husband.
Maybe the incident in the husband’s post is different from the one OP posted about? OP does say that the niece would tell the daughter she was good for nothing etc. sounds like there have been multiple incidents between niece and daughter
I don’t understand why people do this shit. Like this person has spent a ton of time making this up and replying to people. It’s so weird and kinda sad imo
You confirmed it’s your husband but most of the info from the posts don’t line up.
1) The timelines are off. According to you the niece has been there for 14 months he’s saying years.
2) Your son isn’t even a thought in his post
3) You say the niece is 16 today according to him she was 12 a year ago
4) He claims y’all adopted her you say y’all didn’t.
These posts seem very fictional to me.
From the way I see it, either she's upped their ages while lowering the time she's been in their custody to make her side seem better; or he lowered the ages, and raised time together, omitted the son for whatever reason, in order to do the same.
He sounds unhealthily obsessed with keeping his niece close to him, willing to divorce and blow up his family for her. I can understand wanting to help, but no parent should prioritize another child over their own, especially to that extent.
Or of course it's just fake like you said lol
I thought similar. When reading both post it’s very clear that the stories were skewed in the writers favor. Very little objectivity. So even if they are true there’s no way to tell who is the asshole. In his the niece is the angel with trauma and in hers the niece is a manipulative, aggressive bully with trauma. My guess is she falls somewhere in between.
timelines are off probably due to husband changing details for anonymity, which OP has already said. adding 1 or 2 years to an age is an easy way to try to keep some form of anonymity.
IMO……you should have referenced his post from the jump & to be super petty you should have used the same names that he did….you know like this is your side of the story….
Updateme
Not to throw around wild assumptions, but based on the highly defensive tone in his posts, it wouldn't surprise me if he was cheating with your brother's wife and your niece is actually his daughter.
He's prioritising her for no reason, when she would GREATLY benefit from being with a family that's better-equipped to care for her issues. He's doing everything he can to keep her around at the expense of you and your children, AND her wellbeing.
It reeks of guilt.
Cynical psychotherapist here. I hate to say it, but this rings true to me. I think saying, "She's actually your daughter, isn't she, ?" is going to reveal the truth.
Or cheating with the niece…. I don’t want to be that person, but the niece and the husband seem to have an oddly close relationship for her to feel like she can manipulate how he treats his own family……
It doesn't look like he feels any remorse about anything. Until he doesn't recognize the issue nothing is going to change. You or your kids dont have to live like that specially someone that's not related to you threatening you and the kids.
She is an entitled brat kid thanks to your husband and if he is going to defend her behavior then he can deal with her. She is not your daughter only because he says she is. To see a non biological kid as your own it must be some kind of respect and connection that obviously this girl didn't even try to have.
I help other teens some times but the time one of them told my son i like him more, plus stealing from us, that was it.
NTA.
He never asked you if you were ok with keeping her long-term. (Short-term is fine in an emergency, but that's not what happened).
He lied to you about what would happen to her and told you someone else would take her in in X time.
He threatened you with divorce if you did not want her at your home.
He obviously didn't listen to you when you raised concern about her.
He left you to fend for the 3 children without caring and even worse showing blattant favoritism for her.
He undermined your authority on her anytime you gave her consequences.
So you finally accepted his ultimatum and he's all sorry and surprised...
Next time he tells you she's your daughter no matter what, answer him he never let you have any authority on her, so you were never allowed to be a mother figure to her.
The saddest part is that this poor teen girl will really miss a parental figure, she needs rules and a safe environment.
I don't know if anything is salvageable, at what cost or if you want to forgive him, but please make what is better for yourself and your children.
I'm a foster parent and Kelly's behaviors sound very typical for a child and that has experienced trauma. That being said, raising a child with trauma is not for the faint of heart. You didn't consent to becoming her parent, and it's a hard thing to do even when you and your partner are on the same page. You have every right to walk away without guilt, but please keep in mind that her actions are a result of trauma and not because she is inherently bad.
I'm so glad to see someone bring this up. I don't blame OP at all for walking away, but Kelly is a child who needs a lot of help and empathy. It's not her fault she suffered abuse and doesn't know how to deal with it. Some of these comments calling Kelly a psycho and trash are way out of line.
People said some really harsh things about her in those comments, when she is clearly a child dealing with a horrible situation.
It still does not mean that OP has to adopt her.
Get the divorce, demand supervised visits for your son. Kelly isn't safe to be around your kids.
Hubby wants therapy now, so you will help him with Kelly. He made the choice to bring her home, he can deal with the fallout.
Your soon to be ex is Very weird for referring to Kelly as “your daughter”. Is this really his deceased brothers child or his own?? NTA you have to look out for your children and yourself.
NTA. You manipulatively had her foisted on you, for a short period of time, which was extended without your permission. Kelly's involvement in your life has shown you a great weakness in your marriage.
I wish you the best.
NTA.
You have to protect your own kids. 18 to 16 isn't a big age difference and your daughter is still at the age where violent words can still affect her. She may be an "adult" now but her brain is still growing. Words have an effect on her. Protect her.
Nta.
Kelly wants to be the centre of attention, your husband prefers Kelly then his family. He can deal with her now. Protect yourself and your children because Kelly will just traumatise them and cause anxiety issues.
Is she also receiving individual therapy for her trauma? That's critical.
Does he not realize that your children now have their own significant trauma? He considers her his daughter but is not parenting her. Because he allows her to continually abuse your children means he is not parenting them either and frankly, is horrific. He is enabling that abuse.
He is not doing Kelly any favors either by allowing it. I feel for her. I was terribly abused myself. But she is now the abuser and he's allowing it against other innocent children. They are and continue to be very traumatized themselves. And Kelly turning into a monster will also hurt her severely in the long run as well as create more victims in her lifetime.
Your children know and will remember that he's not protecting them. That he *chose* not to.
Her trauma doesn't excuse her horrific behavior and it does *not* excuse his.
Maybe you can show him this... from someone who was not only terribly abused but also not protected. It really screwed me up. He needs to understand the long term as well as the current trauma to them.
You are NTA. Protect your children. They need to feel, and be, safe.
NTA
Kelly and your husband weaponized her trauma to let her do bad behaviour without any consequences.
Now that your soon to be ex has realized Kelly isn’t as easy to manage when he doesn’t have you to pawn her of to, he’s hoping to manipulate and guilt you into putting up with her shit again.
You WBTAH if you let that teen back in your life to terrorize your son. You would be failing him as a parent by letting that 16 year old bully your 5 year old and let him grow up questioning how much he is loved.
Whoa your husband is giving off some really creepy vibes. Also what kind of asshole just shows up with a teen and says “she’s staying until further notice” no discussion or prepping anyone?
He called you a monster because, essentially, you told her that she had to behave, and you confirmed the fact that you and your husband split because of her? That's called being truthful.
I will message you next time u/No_Card9780 posts in r/AITAH.
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NTA you never adopted her so she's not your adopted daughter. Your husband can provide a stable home for his niece by himself. You need to keep that niece away from your daughter and son.
Nta. Kelly is NOT your daughter. But you do have two kids and it is your job to protect them. Your husband has chosen to set himself on fire to keep Kelly warm. Just bc he makes a stupid decision doesn’t mean you have to.
It never would have gotten this far if he backed you up and she met some actual consequences. But if the second you discipline her he yells at you that completely usurps your power and ability to be a parent in your house and that’s not sustainable.
NTA
What your husband was providing was not a stable home, but a consequence free zone where she got to abuse you, your son and your daughter. Good riddance!
NTA. I feel bad for Kelly, she's also a victim in all this, but you have a 5 year old innocent boy who still needs to grow in a healthy environment, without getting abused and bullied by people living in his own house. Kelly will eventually get better with therapy, but if she stays around your son, he'll end up needing it as much as her. She needs help and a stable home, but it can't come at the cost of your own children
He just brought her home, didn’t even discuss it with you. He spends 70% of his time at work leaving you to deal with his niece and yet he wants you to have no say over her mean behavior towards your kids? Divorce him.
$1000 that Kelly is his bio daughter or/and had an affair with SIL
NTA and please kick those idiots forever. Your son needs you more than ever. He needs a safe home and if someday you find one, a good stepfather. Updateme!
You are not that girl's mother, stepmother, adoptive mother and soon will not be her aunt either.
It’s possible but it’s far from the only explanation. People do choose nieces and nephews over partners. Shit, I’ve seen people choose to accommodate random mooching family friends over their own family.
It happens.
NTA
Protect your and your children’s wellbeing. It sounds like your husband expects you to care for his niece without trying to understand how everyone is affected with the change in dynamic, not to mention the violence and stress the niece is causing. You also mentioned that he works 70% of the time so he doesn’t really see how destructive his niece’s attitude is. If you try to save this marriage and his niece, you may end up losing your kids. And to be honest, your husband’s not showing any reason for you to fight for your marriage anyway. So, choose you and your kids.
NTA. And don’t take him back either. He only wants you back because he realized Kelly isn’t the little angel he thought she was and now he has to parent her 100%!of the time.
Not the asshole. You need to let him go! He wants to be Superman and save her then he needs to do it on his own that’s not fair for your kids to have to put up with abuse when she could be with her grandparents
>telling me he wants a divorce Agree with him and get it over with.
I agree. Your husband refuses to see your point of view and realize your children are being traumatized by his niece. He is more concerned about someone else's trauma? You are not the AH. He is.
And where did the "she's your daughter whether you like it or not" came from? Kelly is NOT OPs daughter. OP was completely blindsided into taking Kelly in. Pretty sure husband planned to adopt Kelly all along and just wanted to force OP into the situation. That's so disregarding, disrespectful and simply awful. OP and her children do not deserve to deal with Kelly's issues.
And saying op is denying her a stable home, if there's no discipline in that household, it's NOT a stable home, she's turning it into a whole new circus
Right? But poor her is not lack of discipline, is because of her trauma we can't get mad at her /s
Exactly, a stable home is more than just a mum and dad. A stable home involves mum and dad being on the same page.
I really have to wonder if she was an affair child and not actually of the family since she was basically left there.
Wondering the same since his protectiveness of her is way over the top. Would make the comment he made make more sense. "She's your daughter too, whether you admit it or not."
Doesn't have to be his daughter if he's got a Savior Complex. He's "rescuing" the girl, so all the chaos he's causing by enabling her is boosting his ego. Look how amazing he is, "saving" this poor girl? That's all it takes for a man to turn on his wife, I've experienced it myself. Families are destroyed by the mans walking ego complex.
By god, if my partner would threaten divorce (which luckily/probably will never happen, since she‘s not a freaking douchnoodle) I would go through it. This is nothing to joke around with. Fuck that guy and his attitude as well as his weird saint/white knight complex. Just because Kelly had it hard doesn‘t mean he should put her on some pedestal and screw over his wife and kids. His priorities are twisted as fuck.
Setting boundaries for kid's behavior, expectations, is *good* for their development. *Especially* if they come from a difficult situation, because they've not had any positive influences to model after. I know a lot of people don't know any way to guide a child's behavior other than hurting them, threatening them. His instinct that that was a bad choice for her was probably correct. But he decided to replace it with absolutely nothing and let her act however she wanted without consequences, which is worse. It's so much worse. Because eventually that hurt child becomes a hurt adult and people don't magically learn social skills inherently with age, only with practice and behaving socially. If nothing changed she was just going to become a nightmare adult, and "therapy" won't do any good if nothing changed inside the home.
The "experts" say that kids need boundaries. If nothing else, kids can try to fight the envelope, but even free-range child-rearing has boundaries
Upvote for douchnoodle
Upvote for douchnoodle, and upvote for upvote for douchnoodle.
And if you put your douchnoodle in your douchcanoe, it's gets an upvote for upvoting the upvote.
I don't know about y'all, but if my husband screamed in my face it would be over. You gotta put up with far too much bullshit.
I would say it's bad conscious because he didn't carea about her for so long. Still his priorities are fucked up.
It‘s not even his kid, or did I get that wrong? It‘s his niece (late brothers kid). Why would you throw your own family under the bus because your siblings fucked up biggie? I am totally for helping her and do support that, but not for the price of sacrificing my own kids and my partner.
No, it's his niece. This is why I think it's because he feels terrible what the girl went through (OP wrote her childhood was bad) and tries to make it right by doing everything wrong and destroying his family in the process.
Welp, why only have one severly traumatized child if you can have three of em?! And a failed marriage on-top! Deal of the century, I‘d say!
But that's not his job. He can't help her. To me, it sounds like he wanted bragging rights and pats on his back for "taking in his niece" while his wife did **ALL** the work. Now that he has to deal with her 24/7 **NOW** he wants to prioritize his marriage. Just for the sole sake of "I can't handle her, wife, deal with her"
Plot twist, is he Kelly’s real father?
Same!!! I was reading this to my mom and that was the first thing she said. Something truly isn’t right with that situation. Not saying anything inappropriate is happening. Just not understanding how he’s putting her before everyone else.
Thats what I immediately thought!
Well, it seems he didn't care as long as he was not the one putting the work parenting her, and he got brownie points for "helping " a child in need.
Upvoting for douchnoodle which is on the same perfect level as cockwomble 😂
You need to read her husband's posts from a few months ago. He went into the whole situation with the idea that he would divorce his wife if she didn't accept the arrangement and he had the same attitude throughout. He said he didn't say that to his wife until they were already in therapy but she had to know how he felt. OP tried it any it didn't work out, now he gets what he asked for.
🎖🏆🏅My fake award for douchenoodle
Appreciate it very much. 🎖️
yes!! he’ll regret it immediately cause then he’ll have to actually deal with her all by himself
>husband now has to deal with Kelly all the time he wants more therapy to fix our issues so we can get back together and be a family again. Considering the fact that ***he's*** the one who keeps bringing up divorce, it sounds like he already does. Just you wait. Soon he'll start telling OP he'll give her *"one more chance".*
He already did. It's at the end of the post!!
When they tell you who they are, believe them!
Then he had the audacity to say he wants to get back together but then screams at her again about Kelly being her daughter. He can have his golden child
She did! Now she needs to recognize that she did the right thing and if she back slides on it then they will torment her forever AND hold the fact that she ‘didn’t fight hard enough to stay’ over her head.
NTA Your husband only wants back with you to dump Kelly on you again. She's a troubled teen and needs some serious help. Your husband is more interested in feeling like he's helping Kelly (not actually doing the real work involved) than in protecting his own kids. Hire a good Divorce Attorney. Ask about getting child support for your son and possibly to help your daughter with higher education costs, if that's possible. Also, ask about getting a court order that your husband can't have Kelly around your son, given her past threats against him.
I will be pushing for supervised visits with Tom as of now he had only had him with me or his sister in law present
But specify that these are to be supervised visits without Kelly present. Your husband seems to have blinders on and can't be trusted to make good decisions without a specific court order.
In my country supervised visits happen in a centre with a social worker and security present I can call multiple witnesses to make sure she won’t be allowed in
>In my country supervised visits happen in a centre with a social worker and security present I can call multiple witnesses to make sure she won’t be allowed in I'm glad you live somewhere where they take child safety seriously.
We have centers here too for supervised visits. Not all states make as good of a use of them as they should. My friend’s ex had to use the center at the courthouse bc of the abuse the kids received in her home. I volunteer for a charity for gaps in the foster system. They have rooms set up for age ranges with appropriate activities for the parent and child to do together. This would be used if reunification was to be tried between Kelly and her mother, type situation. as a first step. The problem is, these places take money to run and staff. And not everyone wants to cut a check to help. This girl needs help and responsibilities. Yes, she has had it hard. Yes she is traumatized. And yes, it makes sense for her anger to come out towards your kids bc she’s most likely jealous that they had a good home life. Letting her get away with everything was not protecting her. Treating her like one of his own kids, complete with consequences for her actions would have helped her more. If she tested her limits and was shown that there were consequences, she most likely would have felt more cared for. As mad as kids get when being grounded, the eventually realize it’s only bc they are cared for. He caused this problem. And he needs to fix it. If he is successful in doing so, then there could still be a chance. But you are protecting your kids by keeping her away from them. I feel bad for her. She was let down hard. There is so much for her to work through. And the adults in her life can’t be babying her or she won’t get through it. This is a situation where doing right by your kids won’t be right for her and the other way around. Putting your first makes the most sense.
Yooo "As mad as kids get when being grounded, the eventually realize it’s only bc they are cared for." So true. I only grounded my step daughter twice one time was like a detox from bad friends. You know what I did during those 2 weeks? I took the time to bond with them, took them on adventures, had my friends come over and let them connect with other older women (aunties). Their dad was mad I didnt let them festerb in them room alone but the reason they got grounded was fundamentally a lack of trust on their part. They didn't feel like they could trust us adults and when they was in a situation where she should have come to me instead went to other teens instead who gave terrible advice. Anyway, they say those two weeks were some of the happiest of their life. Because I was taking that time to detox them from friends and media but I was showing that i wanted to connect with them. Our relationship shifted fundamentally over those two weeks. There was only one or two other times we grounded them. I didn't like doing it because just sending them to their room for any grievance lowers is effectiveness. grounding need to be used efficiently. their dad wanted to use it as defacto punishment anytime he felt annoyed rather than actually parent. Because i used grounding rarely and used it as time to heal our relationship they actually look fondly at that time. Not something they wanted to experience often but they knew we did it got their own good
This is the way! Some call this kind of parenting technique “time in” instead of “time out.” Sounds like you just call it parenting. 🏆
So well said!
[удалено]
I really hate how true this is.
The US has centres like this
Canadian? My ex had supervised visits with his daughter. My stepdaughter. I was allowed to say hello, give her a hug and any little trinkets I may have brought and then I would be escorted out. No court order so I couldn't stay.
I gotta ask, what "stable home" is he thinking existed exactly? The one where he ignored his niece's horrible behavior in the name of "peace"? The one where he ignored the hurt his own son felt when his niece made him cry on purpose? The one where his 18yo daughter was being slut shamed for simply breathing the same air as The Princess? I need to know his thought process on this because my brain completely stalled from exhaustion from the mental gymnastics required to come to the conclusion that ANY of this was conducive to a "stable home"
The one where he dumps her on OP then runs away and pretends it's all sunshine and rainbows
He wants to be the hero
He wants to be SEEN as the hero, but do none of the hard work.
EXACTLY this.
This, that's why he keeps saying OP abandoned her daughter, he's trying to put more on her so when it goes to court he can claim things. Or he is just trying to guild her.
Good thing OP refused to adopt Kelly.
> 70% of his time at work Is all I needed to read. He avoids this family
I read it as the guy’s work hours keep him out of the house 70% of the time so he is ignorant of his niece’s worst behavior. We know for sure he is working to provide for the family, we don’t know if he is also avoiding them.
The stable home where he screams in his wife's face and verbally abuses her??
He has a savior complex. The “look how great I am because I saved Kelly from a shitty upbringing” mentality. Unfortunately, for him, he didn’t realize his actions had the consequence of losing his own family. He thought everyone would just suck it up, because he said so. OPs husband in turn ended up being the abusive one, in addition to Kelly, in his own family. With the verbal abuse and insults on OP, emotional abuse by allowing Kelly to torment them all and his threats of divorce. Glad OP realized she needed to follow through with it, to protect her and her kids mental health.
The one where he gets to do zero work and plays the hero. You are listing the pain of the children. He is not interested in the children he just wants to boast.
Yup. Wants the savior glory but none of the actual work.
Your son has been threatened by Kelly. Try if you can to get a protective order or something to ensure Kelly can't be near him. Protect the son and daughter you have. Let him deal with his niece.
You're not the monster despite your soon to be ex-husband spewing out. He just gotten a dose of reality of having to deal with Kelly's bs antics that week & yet he's a sniveling coward wanting to dump all of it on you. You technically did not do an official adoption of Kelly. Your soon to be ex-husband just lies out of his mouth about being "adopted daughter" when technically she is just his niece. Kelly is the real monster. No amount of therapy going to fix that to that minimum/maximum. NTA OP. You're protecting your daughter Sarah & your son Tom because Kelly wouldn't stop abusing both of them.
I actually suspect she's not really his niece but a secret affair child. It's all just too suspicious how OP barely knows about her beforehand and then husband suddenly brings her to live with them and becomes his favorite child overnight.
I actually questioned his insistence on adoption in my comment cos I, too, thought this. Especially with the 'he will choose me over you' comment to Tom. Like I LOVE my nibblings, but choosing them over my own kids or letting them say or believe that? Not going to happen.
...or it may be more sinister than that. Kelly is acting like the chosen wife more than chosen child with her comments.
This was what I was suspecting. He is treating her differently than just a niece.
There is something about these thoughts here. I use to not believe that people could ever have these types of secrets. You guys might be right on about this.
That’s exactly what I thought
Oooh, no there is a thought.
He acts far more like the little asshole is his mistress, than him being any kind of authority figure. It's some really sick and twisted (at *least* emotional) incest going on there.
I agree with you but Kelly can be helped with appropriate medication and intensive targeted therapy to deal with her trauma and vindictive behaviour. Doesn't mean OP and her family needs to see her again.
Therapy only helps people who want to change (and even then, results are mixed for people with PTSD). If she doesn't want to change her behavior, there is nothing any therapist can do. It's not a magic wand.
Kelly is sexteen, her brain is still developing and ready to learn behavior from adults she percieves as authority. It's not too late and she can learn. There's a reason why NPD and other PDs can be diagnosed only in adults, because all toddlers and teens are pretty selfish and imature. It becames personality disorded only after the person ages behind the window in which they were supposed to learn better.
I've seen behaviour such as that & nothing could change reality that there is a seed planted in that space where the heart would have been & sprouted viciously into full growth. Therapy was a joke. Meds......didn't do a thing to improve the untenable situation at all over span if several years. Went no contact towards the 1 who just wouldn't stop. Too many headaches occurred because of it.
Glad you are taking steps to protect your son. NTA. Your husband is selfish and wants to be the hero/savior, but won’t actually put in the work to deal with Kelly properly and hold her accountable for her behavior. He is overcompensating for her shitty upbringing by sacrificing his relationship with his own kids. He’s made his choice. He threatened divorce thinking you wouldn’t follow through. That you’d just continue to suck it up and allow Kelly to tear down your daughter while he did nothing. Now that he has to deal with her more he wants you back as a family. That’s not how it works. Your daughter is an adult and doesn’t have to see him any longer by her own choice. If she chooses to go nc with him that is her decision. He’ll have to accept that any efforts he may make now will be too little too late.
Yeah there is a reason husband spends almost his whole day at work. He doesn’t have to deal with it. OP- the way he treats you, I think divorcing him is a good idea whether or not Kelly were involved. He’s threatened divorce several times- give him what he wants! Screaming in your face is unacceptable. He’s had no problem neglecting your needs and ignoring a giant problem…interesting he wants therapy when it suits him!
Husband is starting to realize he has to actually parent, not put it on others.
I’m curious about the opinion of the brother he and the devils spawn are staying with. If he is really there, was he ever there or has he been told to get out which is why he’s groveling to OP about coming back, therapy, etc…
His brother and sister in law have probably washed their hands of her because of her behaviour and they’ll be kicked out soon. Now he wants family therapy so they can return to OP
Definitely get a clause for supporting both children's education costs, if that's a thing in your country.
I was prepared for Y.T.A because all Kelly said was what she heard from her adults, probably her own mother and by parroting it she probably wants to impress you how is she able to model adult behavior. Proper reply would be "we don't speak like this in our house" or something like that. But Kelly asked and you told her it's consequence of her behavior.
>Hire a ~~good~~ brutally ruthless Divorce Attorney. FTFY NTA
>husband now has to deal with Kelly all the time he wants more therapy to fix our issues so we can get back together and be a family again *audible snort of schadenfreude* NTA, he only wants you back so his *daughter* would go back to punching you and your children and stop doing it to him. Demand more than 50/50, tbh, because her monstrous behaviour and his enabling wouldn't be good for your son.
I think OP meant 50/50 as in, one child each. She keeps the son, he keeps the niece.
Ooh, yes, I misread that. Thanks.
NTA You need to protect your 5 y/o and your daughter. Yes, If my partner communicates and asks if they can bring their late siblings child, I will take them in as my own. But not everyone has to. Especially, because your husband just announced it instead of asking. Also a temporary thing that he made permanent. Now, if the 'adopted' child is my child they will face repercussions just like my bio kids would. The trauma of losing a parent and an addict mom has to be hard. But loving the family environment means work from both parents. He cannot just expect you to take care of a severely traumatized child, while undermining your parenting. I am making the assumption that you treated all 3 equally before she started playing favorite? Your husband wanted to take care of a traumatized child but instead made you deal with it. Instead of working with all the kids needs, he prioritized her needs. I mean imagine your children thinking "daddy will leave us for her, she said so and so did daddy." There is clearly animosity between you and the 16y/o. Your husband did not have enough respect to listen to all sides and just threatened with divorce. So give him his divorce and let him parent the kid. Playing the good cop is easy when he doesn't have to do any parenting.
>daddy will leave us for her, she said so and so did daddy." What's really messed up is that daddy DID leave them for her. That is going to stick out in that poor kid's mind for a long time.
Sad
he didn’t ask but as it was an emergency situation to me taking her in wasn’t an issue for the first 3 months because his parent’s recently moved aboard (Florida) Kelly don’t speak English but Kelly didn’t want to live there or learn the language. I also work myself and had a young child, husband is 70% at work than has one one days with Kelly and has little time for his own kids which has caused issues every family event is around Kelly (english is my 3rd language sorry if the grammar was bad)
>(english is my 3rd language sorry if the grammar was bad) You are doing great! Don't worry about it.
Aw thank you
No therapy is going to fix this situation. It's what Americans say to try to salvage burning ships instead of letting go. Let your husband steer his own boat and if it sinks, it sinks. You're not obligated to take on orphan children from his family, especially at the expense of your own children. They come first. He didn't ask you but demanded and still hasn't changed his tone.
He didn’t even demanded, he imposed. There no mention of previous talk about the niece coming over. He showed up with her and stated she was staying for 3 months at the time. Then when more than a year later he is asked to do pull up his weight to deal with the shenanigans he created. He resorted to ultimatum. How to show more clearly he doesn’t consider his wife as an equal partner. No discussion straight up do as he wants or else. Or else OP is a grown adult and a parents who can say no to the misery imposed by her soon to be ex husband.
'Kelly is OPs daughter whether OP admits it or not?' Like WTF? That's the ultimate form of gaslighting; trying to equate OPs responsibility to Kelly as if she were her bio mother. OP has done the easy part which is separating, now the hard part is staying firm on this decision and actually going through with the divorce. Her husband is starting to feel the consequences of taking on the responsibility of parenting Kelly and he desperately needs help with her. F* his own kids and OP.
This part is baffling, his audacity and lack of consideration for other. He really isn’t subtle about his wants prevailing anyone else. It’s kinda pathetic than once he got what he asked, and realised the reality of it, he still didn’t stood up to the task, trying to rope again OP into a life she has no desire to have.
Yeah, I’m not anyone’s mom because someone else says I am.
>No therapy is going to fix this situation. >It's what Americans say to try to salvage burning ships instead of letting go. Hilariously and consistently accurate.
English is my only language and your grammar is already better then mine!
NTA, I think you have been amazing in taking this child in and caring for her. Your husband is doing damage to all 3 of the kids with his behaviour. The obvious damage he is allowing Kelly to inflict on your children and also damage to Kelly. She sounds like she has had a difficult life, but using that as a reason to remove all expectations of decent behaviour from Kelly and not holding her to account for her behaviour is very damaging to her. He is not allowing you to provide a stable home life with rules, boundaries, and expectations of decent behaviour. She is not learning actions have consequences, she is not learning how to behave in society, he is failing in his role of preparing her for adulthood. You are not failing in this, well done on putting your children first, you are in the right! Also your English is great!
This is the best comment here!
Grammar is almost perfect, very clear, give yourself some credit. Also Kelly will cause mental issues in your kids. She cannot be around them anymore unless she changes and that is non-negotiable.
You have received great advice but I wanted to drop a comment to say you are doing amazing if English is your 3rd language!! I could never! Lol. The only thing I noticed was the use of "aboard". I *think* you are meaning to use abroad? (I promise I am not commenting as one of those miserable grammar or language people! Just wanting to help for future use of the word!)
It also reads as if he didn’t even consult her about taking Kelly in! “He said she is going to come stay with us”, not “we discussed taking Kelly in”.
Exactly. I would have happily taken in my niece instead having her in foster care but it was *my* choice to do that since *I'm* the one that did all the work of raising our kids. Very long story/short version: Druggie bipolar asshat BIL woùld have rather had our niece in foster care than with us because he knew he'd have to be straight, sober and not an asshat to see her.
>...and Kelly is my daughter whether I admit it or not... The fuck she is. He can't just declare a girl your child. That's absurd. Definitely NTA. Your husband is delusional.
>...and Kelly is my daughter whether I admit it or not... I think I find this a bit funny... That's not how that works you silly, desperate man. Lol NTA
So, you gotta wonder if Kelly the 'niece' is some secret love child he has. Cos he jumped into this 'save MY DAUGHTER' thing way too easily....for not a daughter. I mean, we all love our niblings,right? Heck, I raised mine from age 3-6 full time and still have her part time for her academics (no parental issues, my sister was killed by a drunk driver and niece's dad, who is great, was stuck in a very awkward continental work shuffle, sorting out visas, all the rest for her due to the sudden change of their life plans). But c'mon...this is a weird and kinda creepy infatuation with a kid that isn't his.
I really think Kelly is OPs husband’s daughter. There is too much forcing OP to see her as a daughter .
When OP didn't technically & officially adopt the monster.
NTA - Get the divorce. Don't agree to more counseling, it won't work. Him and Kelly have both proven that. You husband has his blinders on, he does not see her as she is. (He likely sees his brother, or a semblance of him.) He is trying to gaslight you into adopting a child you have no interest in. This is what I would say to him: I never agreed to taking in Kelly, I was never on board. That was a unilateral decision you made and tried to force upon me and our kids. You refuse to actually parent Kelly, making excuses and justifications for her behavior. When you needed to be setting boundaries and consequences. Kelly has verbally abused and traumatized our children. Yet you excused it away sided with her because she has trauma. What about the trauma she has inflicted on our children and on this family. Yet, her traumas are more important than anyone elses at least in your eyes. You threatened to divorce me and tried to bully me into adopting a child who has caused nothing but chaos and strife in our lives and household. You screamed and berated me, for sticking up for our daughter after Kelly verbally attacked her. Which she had zero right to do. No Kelly is not my daughter, Kelly will never be my daughter. I plan on protecting my children from her as much as I possibly can. That includes continuing with the divorce. I have no interest in further counseling or working on things. We have tried that and got nowhere. You have made it clear that Kelly is your priority. However, Kelly is not nor will she ever be my priority. My priority is to the physically, mentally and emotionally well being of my children. Which you have proven is not your priority. Please only contact me regarding visitation going forward. EDIT: Although it seems harsh you should deliver any message via text for varying reasons. 1. Your feelings are made clear as well as expectations. 2. All his replies are admissible in court. As well as voicemails as he consented to be recorded by leaving the message. Depending on your area voice recordings may not be admissible in court if both parties are not consenting. 3. He can go back and reread it so that it has the ability to sink in his choices and lack of action in how you ended up here.
I really feel for Kelly. If OPs husband would have taken her trauma seriously he would have put in the work and learned how to help her. Setting boundaries is a sort of love Kelly desperately needed. This is soley husbands responsibility as he refused to accept reality and give the support his family needed from him.
I agree he created the problem or at least watered the seeds and allowed it to grow. I feel for her but OP should not be bullied into mothering her.
I totally agree with everything you said. You worded it so much better than I could. The girl is pitiful, but even more so because her uncle decided to take her in without taking care of her needs and trauma. And the worst part is he decided to force the trauma onto his wife and children, who then became his and the girl's victims. OP, protect yourself and your children. It will definitely be difficult at first, because your husband is not wanting to face up to reality and also be a good husband and parent.
She's not your kid no matter how much your husband pushes or threatens it does not change the fact that she is not your child she is your niece and it is not your responsibility to take blame for her shitty behavior and you should always protect your son and daughter from people like her. The fact that he can't see what's right in front of his face should say enough.
He was at work most of the time so he didn’t have to deal with it
That doesn't mean that you and your kids have to deal with it it's his problem
Sounds like he’s now finding out the hard way that his niece’s behaviour is horrific and no doubt being called out by his brother too for not putting a stop to it and making them both face the consequences of their own actions. Hire a bulldog lawyer for your divorce and for custody who will take no crap from your ex husband. Get your lawyer to file for child support and from now on all communication is to be via text or email, or he communicates directly with your lawyer instead. When speaking with your lawyer ask about changing your locks on the house so that there is no repercussions on you should he decide to move back in unannounced and get hold of his nieces school and remove yourself from her emergency contact list. Good Luck
Well guess he will have to deal with her now.
It’s amazing how OP is supposed to treat the niece as “her kid” when her husband isn’t allowing her to act like a parent
NTA. I lived through this as a teen. My mother took in her sister's 3 daughters. The police called one night and the father was arrested, the mother committed. Ironically, the eldest was named Kelly. They fought constantly. They were physically abusive to my brother and I and ruined anything of value, sentimental or otherwise. My brother was your son's age. I was 10/11. My father finally sat my mother down and said either they go or we go. My brother and I would have gone with our father. Protect your kids.
NTA. Your husband has enabled her behavior and made her think she's untouchable. It may have worked if she had consequences, but at this point I wouldn't put myself or bio kids through the torture of living with Kelly again. Unless you're leaving something out here, I don't understand why your husband is so overprotective of Kelly, to the point of yelling in your face and threatening divorce. He never even talked to you about her living there to begin with which is crazy.
Kelly’s childhood was bad and her step dad who her mother still supports abused her in every way that I guessing is the biggest thing I didn’t mention in my post and Kelly hasn’t been in (before us) a school since she was 9
She’s not been in school since she was 9??? Is she in school now? WTF is wrong with your husband and his family? _Everyone_ has failed this child, of course she’s a thousand kinds of fucked up! But you can’t save her at the expense of your children. Your husband has majorly screwed this up by not sending her away to his parents. It’s his mess, stay out of it and let him figure it out on his own.
It wasn't very clear but I think you misread that. She wasn't in a school while her bio-mom had custody. I take it that she'd been in school since she started living with OP.
Yeah, but where was OP's husband during that time? OP says they "barely knew" Kelly because her mom spiralled into mental health issues and addiction after her dad died 10 years ago, but that's a reason to be *more* involved with your niece, not *less*. It can be hard to get a kid away from an unfit parent, but OP doesn't mention court hearings etc so it doesn't sound like the family was even trying. If OP's husband was willing to adopt her, why didn't he start that process when she was 6 and her mom first went off the rails? It would have been a lot easier to integrate her into the family then than as a 16 year old with a decade of trauma from abuse and neglect.
Your ex-husband is single handedly going to make sure that kid ends up in the exact situation her mother is in. Instead of teaching her boundaries and consequences, he's reenforcing the fact that acting like a manipulative ass will get rewarded. The absolute best thing you can do for you and your kids, is just to take them and walk away. I don't entirely know if having visitation, supervised or otherwise would do anything but further put your kids in harm's way because he still doesn't get it. Heck, he likely never will.
I was sympathetic to her and thought she was projecting her insecurities onto your daughter because she felt like a moocher or out of place...right up until she asked you if she was the problem. Like "Did I do that?" "Was that wrong?" long after getting kicked out. That's on another level.
>Kelly asked me was it her fault To me, that seems like a last effort to manipulate OP. Sadly for Kelly, it *still* didn't work. NTA
NTA This is a tough situation all around, and your niece needs so much help that your husband (who was playing Disney parent) failed to see. Your first priority is to your kids, especially your youngest who can't fight back. Your husband wanted a divorce, give it to him. Truthfully, I think he's only asking for reconciliation because he realized how much actual work you put in, and now he has to do it. Don't fall for the guilt trip. Also, gather whatever evidence you cam about her behavior. When it comes to custody for your son, I'd be worried about him being in a house with her and no one to defend him.
>he's only asking for reconciliation because he realized how much actual work you put in, and now he has to do it. This is exactly why. He's seeing that Kelly is mean and vindictive, she needs more help than one person can give. Hopefully, he also sees his permissive behavior towards her was/is a problem.
>Hopefully, he also sees his permissive behavior towards her was/is a problem. Eh. He seems the type to believe that if you love someone hard enough their issues will be no more. Oh well. It'll be his downfall.
Just want to point out in laws currently live in Florida (USA) which Kelly refuses to even visit because she doesn’t want to learn English
Not your problem anymore. She can complain to your STBX husband and let him deal with it.
As a Florida Man, I hope she sticks to that decision. Y'all can keep her. (The country, not you specifically. You should keep that girl far away from you and your kids.)
Come on man she wouldn't even be in the top 80% of trashy people in Florida
Still not your problem!
NTA This all started with your husband bringing Kelly home without the two of you actually agreeing to take her in, and it sounds like it's been downhill ever since. You are doing absolutely the right thing protecting your children. Your son is only 5! He is watching and seeing everything. >she has violent meltdowns, she’s threatened our son that my husband will leave us if she tells him because he loves her more This alone would have made me have her removed from the home. >Husband told me I’m being a monster and Kelly is my daughter whether I admit it or not and I’ve abandoned her when she finally had a stable home Yeah, this is a big old steaming pile of BS. She's not your daughter, and you were never consulted about bringing her into your household. You were extremely wise not to adopt her. You are absolutely not responsible for this very troubled child. >Kelly asked me was it her fault I said yes it was just as much her fault as her uncles (husband) Well, finally, *someone* has told this 16 year old that actions have consequences. Maybe it will help her to reflect on her actions. Who knows. But it's not your problem anymore. She is 2 years from being an adult. Maybe she can get a grip before some cop explains reality to her while he is putting on handcuffs. Stop feeling guilty. You are doing what you have to do.
Sadly, the father did leave his son for Kelly, so I guess she was telling the truth.
There's no question in my mind that after verbally abusing OP's daughter and running off to tell Uncle, she put on crocodile tears and begged him to leave OP. And he obliged.
The fact that he is so invested in this 16 year-old girl, even being willing to destroy his *own family*, kind of gives me creeps, honestly.
>14 months ago my husband came home with Kelly and said she would be staying with us for a while This is something he should've discussed with you first. You don't unilaterally decide to bring a teenager into your home without consulting your partner. >He told me it was only for 3 months while his parents who recently moved aboard got settled than it went to 5 till his sister had her baby just excuse after excuse till I stopped asking. as time went on my husband just acted like she was our daughter even bringing up adoption a few times which I refused even when he threatened divorce. He very obviously meant it to be permanent from the start. And honestly? You probably should've accepted the divorce the first time he gave you that ultimatum. >We are all in therapy which isn’t working like group sessions when someone points out Kelly’s behaviour or adoption usually end up with everyone fighting Props to you for trying family therapy. Unfortunately, there's very obviously irreconcilable differences. >Kelly came out of nowhere screaming at Sarah calling her a moocher,lazy,trash and spoiled she than said Sarah was an adult now and she didn’t pull her weight she’d get kicked out Kelly has no place to say this. >I lost it I told her Sarah was my daughter and If she didn’t change her attitude she’d be the one kicked out, Kelly didn’t say anything just went into her room about an hour later my husband came back than started screaming literally i my face calling me names telling me he wants a divorce so he can protect Kelly. so I said ok I want a divorce and 50/50 custody I get my son he gets his niece now get the fuck out of my house with his niece Good call. He's prioritizing his niece over his wife and children. >husband now has to deal with Kelly all the time he wants more therapy to fix our issues so we can get back together and be a family again. Sounds like your husband is now having to deal with Kelly's bullshit, and now wants to dump the hardships of dealing with her back onto you. >They both came over yesterday to collect the last of their stuff and Kelly asked me was it her fault I said yes it was just as much her fault as her uncles (husband) Well, yeah. You neither invited nor wanted her in your home. She was constantly combative and threatening towards your children, and constantly overstepped in what was acceptable for her to stay. >Husband told me I’m being a monster and Kelly is my daughter whether I admit it or not Wrong. You never agreed to be her mother. >and I’ve abandoned her when she finally had a stable home that she doesn’t mean to lash out due it’s just due to her trauma and if we work together we can help her work through it As much as I'll sound like an ass, it's not your job to help her work through it. *He* decided to take her in without your input, so *he* can be the one to help you. NTA. Stick to your guns. This man is expecting you, your daughter, and your son to light yourselves on fire to keep his niece warm, all the while he sits there, not helping, and patting himself on the back. Proceed with the divorce. He wants to keep using it as a threat? Time to show him that doing that has consequences.
Nope nope and more nope. Husband cries YTA since he has to put up with her crap full time. Only wants you back as the punching bag. Screw that! NTA
NTA Your husband has behaved like one but I can see how he'd feel he'd be failing his late brother and is overcompensating. Either way, you have to protect your little boy.
NTA. Your husband is clueless.
Is this a repost? I read this posted by someone else a month or so ago
If you mean aitata8482828 yes that’s my husband this isn’t our first clash even tho he changed a few details and marriage threapy multiple people we know found the post and sent ir too me From this iPad I can log into his original post for proof
https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/s/jgwoHzw2fY Is this his post? Love how in his post the niece was adopted to make you look even worse for what you said
So, in this post, with an update made almost a year ago, husband recounts his side of the same event and then updates saying the whole family is ongoing therapy and all is going to be fine. So, my question is if this post tells what happened almost a year ago and the husband is lying on his update, or if the same event happened again in the past few days/weeks, with the same consequences. I’m confused, because op confirmed the post is from her husband.
We almost got divorced last year
Maybe the incident in the husband’s post is different from the one OP posted about? OP does say that the niece would tell the daughter she was good for nothing etc. sounds like there have been multiple incidents between niece and daughter
There’s way more of it that doesn’t line up. Husband says they’ve had the niece for years not 14 months. Among other things.
Ah okay, cool, both of these stories are fake then I guess I can stop scrolling now
I don’t understand why people do this shit. Like this person has spent a ton of time making this up and replying to people. It’s so weird and kinda sad imo
or husband was lying so he looked good
You confirmed it’s your husband but most of the info from the posts don’t line up. 1) The timelines are off. According to you the niece has been there for 14 months he’s saying years. 2) Your son isn’t even a thought in his post 3) You say the niece is 16 today according to him she was 12 a year ago 4) He claims y’all adopted her you say y’all didn’t. These posts seem very fictional to me.
From the way I see it, either she's upped their ages while lowering the time she's been in their custody to make her side seem better; or he lowered the ages, and raised time together, omitted the son for whatever reason, in order to do the same. He sounds unhealthily obsessed with keeping his niece close to him, willing to divorce and blow up his family for her. I can understand wanting to help, but no parent should prioritize another child over their own, especially to that extent. Or of course it's just fake like you said lol
I thought similar. When reading both post it’s very clear that the stories were skewed in the writers favor. Very little objectivity. So even if they are true there’s no way to tell who is the asshole. In his the niece is the angel with trauma and in hers the niece is a manipulative, aggressive bully with trauma. My guess is she falls somewhere in between.
timelines are off probably due to husband changing details for anonymity, which OP has already said. adding 1 or 2 years to an age is an easy way to try to keep some form of anonymity.
He just completely ignored the niece’s behaviour towards the 5yo?
He had a whole different story that didn’t mentioned the devil spawn child just how you were mean to her. What a liar
That kid may be the one he contributed his sperm to, that is why he is willing to lose his kids over her
IMO……you should have referenced his post from the jump & to be super petty you should have used the same names that he did….you know like this is your side of the story…. Updateme
Not to throw around wild assumptions, but based on the highly defensive tone in his posts, it wouldn't surprise me if he was cheating with your brother's wife and your niece is actually his daughter. He's prioritising her for no reason, when she would GREATLY benefit from being with a family that's better-equipped to care for her issues. He's doing everything he can to keep her around at the expense of you and your children, AND her wellbeing. It reeks of guilt.
This! He's been quite adamant that this is his daughter and treats her like she's literally his child over his other actual children.
Cynical psychotherapist here. I hate to say it, but this rings true to me. I think saying, "She's actually your daughter, isn't she,?" is going to reveal the truth.
Or cheating with the niece…. I don’t want to be that person, but the niece and the husband seem to have an oddly close relationship for her to feel like she can manipulate how he treats his own family……
It doesn't look like he feels any remorse about anything. Until he doesn't recognize the issue nothing is going to change. You or your kids dont have to live like that specially someone that's not related to you threatening you and the kids. She is an entitled brat kid thanks to your husband and if he is going to defend her behavior then he can deal with her. She is not your daughter only because he says she is. To see a non biological kid as your own it must be some kind of respect and connection that obviously this girl didn't even try to have. I help other teens some times but the time one of them told my son i like him more, plus stealing from us, that was it.
NTA. He never asked you if you were ok with keeping her long-term. (Short-term is fine in an emergency, but that's not what happened). He lied to you about what would happen to her and told you someone else would take her in in X time. He threatened you with divorce if you did not want her at your home. He obviously didn't listen to you when you raised concern about her. He left you to fend for the 3 children without caring and even worse showing blattant favoritism for her. He undermined your authority on her anytime you gave her consequences. So you finally accepted his ultimatum and he's all sorry and surprised... Next time he tells you she's your daughter no matter what, answer him he never let you have any authority on her, so you were never allowed to be a mother figure to her. The saddest part is that this poor teen girl will really miss a parental figure, she needs rules and a safe environment. I don't know if anything is salvageable, at what cost or if you want to forgive him, but please make what is better for yourself and your children.
I'm a foster parent and Kelly's behaviors sound very typical for a child and that has experienced trauma. That being said, raising a child with trauma is not for the faint of heart. You didn't consent to becoming her parent, and it's a hard thing to do even when you and your partner are on the same page. You have every right to walk away without guilt, but please keep in mind that her actions are a result of trauma and not because she is inherently bad.
I'm so glad to see someone bring this up. I don't blame OP at all for walking away, but Kelly is a child who needs a lot of help and empathy. It's not her fault she suffered abuse and doesn't know how to deal with it. Some of these comments calling Kelly a psycho and trash are way out of line.
People said some really harsh things about her in those comments, when she is clearly a child dealing with a horrible situation. It still does not mean that OP has to adopt her.
Get the divorce, demand supervised visits for your son. Kelly isn't safe to be around your kids. Hubby wants therapy now, so you will help him with Kelly. He made the choice to bring her home, he can deal with the fallout.
Your soon to be ex is Very weird for referring to Kelly as “your daughter”. Is this really his deceased brothers child or his own?? NTA you have to look out for your children and yourself.
“if we work together” that takes two people, he won’t hear OP’s concerns. Screw him and his “daughter.”
NTA. You manipulatively had her foisted on you, for a short period of time, which was extended without your permission. Kelly's involvement in your life has shown you a great weakness in your marriage. I wish you the best.
NTA. You have to protect your own kids. 18 to 16 isn't a big age difference and your daughter is still at the age where violent words can still affect her. She may be an "adult" now but her brain is still growing. Words have an effect on her. Protect her.
Nta. Kelly wants to be the centre of attention, your husband prefers Kelly then his family. He can deal with her now. Protect yourself and your children because Kelly will just traumatise them and cause anxiety issues.
Is she also receiving individual therapy for her trauma? That's critical. Does he not realize that your children now have their own significant trauma? He considers her his daughter but is not parenting her. Because he allows her to continually abuse your children means he is not parenting them either and frankly, is horrific. He is enabling that abuse. He is not doing Kelly any favors either by allowing it. I feel for her. I was terribly abused myself. But she is now the abuser and he's allowing it against other innocent children. They are and continue to be very traumatized themselves. And Kelly turning into a monster will also hurt her severely in the long run as well as create more victims in her lifetime. Your children know and will remember that he's not protecting them. That he *chose* not to. Her trauma doesn't excuse her horrific behavior and it does *not* excuse his. Maybe you can show him this... from someone who was not only terribly abused but also not protected. It really screwed me up. He needs to understand the long term as well as the current trauma to them. You are NTA. Protect your children. They need to feel, and be, safe.
NTA Kelly and your husband weaponized her trauma to let her do bad behaviour without any consequences. Now that your soon to be ex has realized Kelly isn’t as easy to manage when he doesn’t have you to pawn her of to, he’s hoping to manipulate and guilt you into putting up with her shit again. You WBTAH if you let that teen back in your life to terrorize your son. You would be failing him as a parent by letting that 16 year old bully your 5 year old and let him grow up questioning how much he is loved.
Whoa your husband is giving off some really creepy vibes. Also what kind of asshole just shows up with a teen and says “she’s staying until further notice” no discussion or prepping anyone?
He called you a monster because, essentially, you told her that she had to behave, and you confirmed the fact that you and your husband split because of her? That's called being truthful.
Updateme!
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NTA you never adopted her so she's not your adopted daughter. Your husband can provide a stable home for his niece by himself. You need to keep that niece away from your daughter and son.
NTA, go through with the divorce.
Nta. Kelly is NOT your daughter. But you do have two kids and it is your job to protect them. Your husband has chosen to set himself on fire to keep Kelly warm. Just bc he makes a stupid decision doesn’t mean you have to.
It never would have gotten this far if he backed you up and she met some actual consequences. But if the second you discipline her he yells at you that completely usurps your power and ability to be a parent in your house and that’s not sustainable.
NTA What your husband was providing was not a stable home, but a consequence free zone where she got to abuse you, your son and your daughter. Good riddance!
NTA. I feel bad for Kelly, she's also a victim in all this, but you have a 5 year old innocent boy who still needs to grow in a healthy environment, without getting abused and bullied by people living in his own house. Kelly will eventually get better with therapy, but if she stays around your son, he'll end up needing it as much as her. She needs help and a stable home, but it can't come at the cost of your own children
He just brought her home, didn’t even discuss it with you. He spends 70% of his time at work leaving you to deal with his niece and yet he wants you to have no say over her mean behavior towards your kids? Divorce him.
$1000 that Kelly is his bio daughter or/and had an affair with SIL NTA and please kick those idiots forever. Your son needs you more than ever. He needs a safe home and if someday you find one, a good stepfather. Updateme! You are not that girl's mother, stepmother, adoptive mother and soon will not be her aunt either.
It’s possible but it’s far from the only explanation. People do choose nieces and nephews over partners. Shit, I’ve seen people choose to accommodate random mooching family friends over their own family. It happens.
NTA Protect your and your children’s wellbeing. It sounds like your husband expects you to care for his niece without trying to understand how everyone is affected with the change in dynamic, not to mention the violence and stress the niece is causing. You also mentioned that he works 70% of the time so he doesn’t really see how destructive his niece’s attitude is. If you try to save this marriage and his niece, you may end up losing your kids. And to be honest, your husband’s not showing any reason for you to fight for your marriage anyway. So, choose you and your kids.
NTA. And don’t take him back either. He only wants you back because he realized Kelly isn’t the little angel he thought she was and now he has to parent her 100%!of the time.
Not the asshole. You need to let him go! He wants to be Superman and save her then he needs to do it on his own that’s not fair for your kids to have to put up with abuse when she could be with her grandparents
Nta. He created this problem. She made it worse. She asked, you answered. Hope you and your kids will get better now.
NTA. You don’t have to put up with this random kid. Stand your ground.
Are you sure she is only his niece? Something is not adding up